Scott's Story: A Father’s Journey Through Loss, Love and Living Again -E438

As we release this episode on Father's Day weekend, we recognize that this day can carry many emotions for bereaved fathers. It can be a day of love, remembrance, gratitude, heartache, and longing, often all at the same time.

In this special conversation, Bruce and Kristin sit down with Scott Allen to talk about his daughter, Jamie Summer Allen, a gifted mother of eight, talented musician, massage therapist, and deeply compassionate soul whose life touched countless people.

Scott shares Jamie's story, from her remarkable ability to connect with others to the devastating motorcycle accident that took her life seven years ago. He speaks candidly about the shock of child loss, the darkness of early grief, and the years spent learning how to survive, heal, and eventually embrace moments of joy again.

Together, they explore the realities of fatherhood after loss, the wisdom our children leave behind, the importance of finding safe people who can truly listen, and the unexpected ways healing can arrive. For Scott, some of those lessons came through Jamie's children, whose love, honesty, and resilience helped guide him forward when he wasn't sure he wanted to keep going.

This episode is filled with laughter, tears, hard-earned wisdom, and powerful reminders that grief is not something we overcome, but something we learn to carry. It is a conversation about love that continues, even after death, and about the enduring bond between a father and his child.

Whether you are a bereaved parent, supporting someone who is grieving, or navigating Father's Day while carrying the loss of a child, Scott's story offers hope, understanding, and the reassurance that you are not alone.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:45

Welcome to Don't Forget to Breathe. I'm Bruce Barker here with my co-host, Kristen Glenn. Today we're honored to share the story of a father, a musician, a grandfather, and a man who has spent the last seven years learning what it means to carry profound loss continuing to live. Our guest is Scott Allen, and this conversation centers around his daughter, Jamie Summer Allen. Jamie was a gifted mother of eight children, a massage therapist, a musician, and someone who seemed to have an extraordinary ability to connect

Welcome And Why Jamie Matters

SPEAKER_01 1:19

with people on a deep level. She was compassionate, intuitive, funny, creative, and fiercely devoted to her children. When Jamie was killed in a motorcycle accident, Scott's world changed forever. In this episode, Scott shares memories of Jamie's life, the devastating days following her death, and the long road through grief that followed. He talks openly about the darkness of those early days and the role his grandchildren played in helping him find his footing again, and how authenticity, connection, and love became anchors when nothing else seemed to make sense. This is a conversation about loss, but it's also about resilience. It's about the people who continue to shape us even after they're gone and the ways our children can still teach us how to live. We're grateful you're here. Scott. Hello. Hi. Nice to be here. Thanks for coming and joining us today and sharing your story. You know, to start off, how about you tell us about your child and her name?

SPEAKER_00 2:31

Tell us a little bit about her story. Okay. Jamie is my second daughter. Jamie Summer Allen is her name. She was born on my birthday, October 13th, 1977. Just a soulful, kind, creative,

Meeting Scott And Jamie’s Story

SPEAKER_00 2:52

loving daughter. Or she has eight kids. She was a great inspiration when she was alive. And I have chosen to try and keep it going. She passed away September 7th, seven years ago this September. She was a passenger on a motorcycle coming down from down Puder Canyon. And her driver was intoxicated, but very inexperienced rider. And uh they went off the road. He died instantly, and she was pretty much well, we didn't know. So she was an organ donor and she was put on life support for three days, and and then that began a whole new process of her getting surgery and getting well, we got the word that she was pretty much brain

The Crash And Organ Donation

SPEAKER_00 3:44

dead.

SPEAKER_03 3:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:46

And so after that, she was transported to Denver for surgery on getting her organs out. People who hopefully were able to use them to further their life. That certainly was everything Jamie represented.

SPEAKER_03 4:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:02

You know, I saw a um a video, just sort of for reference for our listeners. Um, so I know Scott. And um, so I saw a video, I believe that you had posted on social media, with the two of you singing. So tell me about tell me about her, like about her personality. Because obviously she was incredibly talented, just like her dad, musicians, but just what I was trying to pick up in that video was a fraction of who Jimmy was. Like what tell me about her personality. What made her laugh? Like any any of this.

SPEAKER_00 4:39

So um it's uh it's a good question

Humor, Empathy, And Deep Connection

SPEAKER_00 4:42

because the answer oftentimes uh comes out as we were so similar in terms of our sense of humor. She was one um, but she she was um just an incredibly giving person, very intuitive. Um she was a massage therapist by trade. But she had quite an extensive client list of people that really I mean, some of them talked to me about how what an impact that she made on their lives. She had a a way of working on a number of people who later told me that she was able to sort of diagnose some emotional issues with some of the clients that came in for a physical problem, but she didn't state so much that she knew, but she asked the right questions, like and she would say, Did you recently lose somebody or you know, or uh somebody's really close to you that's really sick now? Um, because I'm picking up this kind of thing. And so funny, a great ability to connect with people. And she was very uh driven to have meaningful conversations and meaningful connections. She didn't get too lost in the hoopla of just you know, uh, who won the Bronco game. She was quite the deep person. But at the same time, she knew how to laugh. And our deal was she would make she was raising a kid on a you know shoestring budget. And so she lived within her means kind of forced to, uh, but like she oftentimes would cook the same meal over and over again because it was cheap. Yeah. But you know, the kids were doing fine, and um, but I would come over and you know, play with the kids, and she would take video of me, and you could hear her saying, My dad is so funny. He just is so funny, and he cracks me up. And then uh one of Jamie's friends said to me, Your daughter thinks you're the funniest person, and it's so strange because Jamie's so hilarious. Like when you're when you're not around, she's like funny. She makes up stuff and makes up songs and all kinds of stuff. And so uh Jamie and I had a talk about this one time, and she had written me a note saying, You're the funniest guy I know. Like, Dad, like you're intimidating. And I go, Jamie, that's insanely crazy. That's like that's not even true. I'm not funny at all. That's what I told her. And she said, Dad, no, you really are. And and and I said, Honey, you're hilarious. I said, You never see me when I'm funny, because I kind of like I have a hard time kind of being funny because you're so much more funny. And I said, Let's stop this. This is crazy. But anyway, some of the things that I would do uh would be to come in and, you know, she's you know, frying up some ground beef or you know, tacos and stuff. Sure. So I'd come in and it'd always be something like that burritos, tacos, whatever. So I'd always seem to come into the house, uh, not a lot, but you know, quite a few times. And I'd just come in and go, hmm, God, that smells so good. What is that? And at first it was funny, and then I was kind of egging her on a little bit too much, and then finally she was using the FU. Uh but you know, in a jokingly. Sure, yeah. You know, we we were very close. It was such an amazing experience to experience to know, I mean, to know her on a very personable level because I was really abandoned her uh, you know, and the kids kind of emotionally um because I left their mother a long time ago. And so there was a a lot of you know, a sense of betrayal and abandonment that they felt from me. That prompted, after a period of time, some changes on my part to try and establish, deal with my my part and that kind of separation and pain that I had caused them through, you know, my actions. And so the the beauty of making those decisions over a period of a few years, I just felt a great sense of trust, a bridge between all the kids and myself. A lot of healing, beautiful memories starting to happen with that that point when they trusted me again. Yeah. Yeah. It was kind of like that. But um she was artistic. She sang there's so many stories, uh, but as far as her personality uh sentimental, she was always nice to people like I was. Okay. And a good example of her personality is that she was so nice to people, even when she was getting walked on. Okay.

Trust Rebuilt And Motherhood Lessons

SPEAKER_00 9:36

But as she was getting older, she was learning some different things. But what was funny is one of her kids had told me, you know, that they had gone out for dinner and a waitress was being obnoxious and mean and rude to everybody at the table. So Jamie was talking about, you know, to the waitress, just like uh, wow, you look so beautiful, and well, you know, uh it's so great to be here and thanks for the lovely service. And you know, and and the waitress walks off, who's been a complete, you know, uh mean person. Let's just put it that way. And then the kids are all sort of shocked. And the oldest one told me later that right as soon as the waitress disappeared, Jamie kind of ducked her head down and looked at the kids and kind of said, She's a bee. Okay. And she was quite expressive about it, you know. Yeah. And then when the lady came back, she was all nice again. Yeah. So she has the sensitivity though, I think, even though she released that sort of frustration of having somebody so rude to especially her kids too. She seems to always just have that sense of compassion and forgiveness about people who are maybe having a bad day. And I saw her that, you know, uh with that over the years all the time, and even as a child, like as a young child. She died when she was forty. But in the years when she was really young, um, she was that kid on the at school that was always taking in the the one that got hurt, made fun of, maybe could you know, got hurt. Yeah. Well, I said that, yeah. But she loved her kids. She had a lot of them.

SPEAKER_01 11:25

Yeah, eight. That's that's a lot. And it just sounds like such a warm, open heart and such empathy and empathic. I mean, with you know, especially picking up with as you're mentioning as as a massage therapist and picking up, it wasn't just a job and a duty, and here's what we're doing, but connecting. Like just a lot of connection.

SPEAKER_00 11:48

Really big.

SPEAKER_01 11:48

And I know you mentioned, you know, as an artist and singer, I because again, I heard the video and I'm and beautiful, beautiful voice. Yeah, she's so much wonderful. Did you guys sing together often?

SPEAKER_00 13:07

Well, so we did when she had time, but it was usually the same three or four songs over the last, you know, 20 years. So when she finally got up there and did her thing, we had rehearsed, you know, a couple times, but she she never had time to learn a new song after that. So it was kind of like that song you heard was one she did, but it's just an uh and then she sang one of my songs that I wrote years ago called Angels. And uh then she sang Stand by Me and you know, like one other one, I forgot which one. But she uh she did whenever she could. And sometimes I even have pictures of this when she's up at now what's called Horse Tooth Tavern, but there's a picture of her up there, she's getting ready to sing and she's holding two kids in her hands. Oh wow, uh in her arms.

SPEAKER_01 13:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:58

Classic shot. Yes, that was that was her whole deal, you know. Like she's working, she's wants to come up and see dad. She wants to do a couple songs. And one story that's sort of interesting was there's a another singer in town who always loved to have me back her up on the same song as the one you just heard. And uh, and and it got be kind of competitive because I didn't know when Jamie would show up and and the gal would always like, oh, I want to do that song. Well, and then what I saw with Jamie was she enjoyed, she told me later how much she enjoyed just being up at me with her pop. And uh I felt the same way. So it got to be where when this other person showed up, sometimes she would be a little aggressive about wanting to play before Jamie showed up if she did. Yeah. And then sometimes when Jamie would show up, she'd go, Is she here? Dad, am I doing that song? And and I'd go, Absolutely.

SPEAKER_05 14:59

Okay, that daughter's daughter's always gonna win.

SPEAKER_00 15:01

Yeah. Daughters win. That's yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:05

So besides all of these amazing talents and the personality and the empathic, it just sounds she's an amazing, amazing mom. I mean, eight kids. Everything that she did to support those kids, that's yeah. You raised a great daughter.

SPEAKER_00 15:22

She she was great. A thing that really stood out was oftentimes kids would feel neglected when there's eight. There's just not enough time. But when when when those kids would feel that way and feel hurt over something, she would really take the time and pull that kid aside and no no uh distractions, uh, go in the other room and spend some time with that kid because she she knew that she just couldn't get to him unless she could really connect one-on-one. Powerful stuff. I mean, I think it made a huge difference in my life to to see how she was a mother. Because oftentimes I I I don't think when I was younger I I knew how to connect on the level that she did. And it was a you know a good reminder of you know my journey. So I felt like uh as a daughter, dad, that we were both learning a lot of from each other.

SPEAKER_03 16:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 16:16

Yeah, what a um what wisdom we can gain from our children if we let ourselves be open to that. You know, Scott, we feel like people will listen to this this podcast from early days of their grief through their entire journey. And all three of us here have had years of processing our grief and going through the myriad of emotions. Can you think back to those early days of your grief and the emotions that surrounded that, maybe what shocked you about that time and what you went through?

SPEAKER_00 16:53

Boy, you know, it's it's like everything shuts down. When we

Early Grief And Losing Your Worldview

SPEAKER_00 16:57

got the word that there was no hope that she was gonna be, even if she if she had recovered like from the brain trauma, she would have been paraplegic from the neck down. Yeah. So when it happened, or when the decision we got the call to go into the room at the hospital and it's like it just everything stops. So it just oftentimes I couldn't breathe. I mean, I just like I I felt honestly that I kept envisioning uh an implosion, seriously, where I just saw myself disappearing. It was just so intense that I mean when I say intense, it's like it's just numb. But there was this sort of sense of disappearing. And I think the mind was just going into all these different places of uh questions and I would just say that I cried for two years. I mean, uh not in public so much, but and I screamed for at least two years. I didn't have a story, I didn't have something anymore where that gave me hope. I changed my views about a lot of things, and so the view was basically I don't know what's next. You know, like I used to think I had the answers to that, and to be honest, as a a young father, I it gave me a lot of comfort for a long time to think, okay, well, there's there's something after this, and I'll see her again, and and and because I don't have evidence for that that has supported that view, I still, you know, talk to her every day. And I, you know, uh and I I I come from the place of just saying, Jamie, I don't know if you can hear me, but here I am, I'm talking to you, and you're walking with me right now. Like on the trail yesterday, I was up in Nesset Park at the Rocky Mountain National Park, and I just said, You're walking with me. It's kind of a fog, really. There's nowhere to go to find, you know, for at that time for me to find comfort, but I I every day I was up walking the land, taking photos, crying, screaming, cussing, feeling like I was gonna die every day. And I tried to, uh, and I did many times just realize that the world doesn't revolve around me. I was trying to just remember that this life-death thing has been there's so many people that are losing children, let alone their friends and family that have passed on stuff. So grief is just sort of like a human experience. And I was trying to look at it from a more objective point of view, kind of like it's not the whole world crushing down on me. Uh, there's a lot of people out there right now that have just lost a kid. So I was trying to put my mind on, I was trying to figure out how to survive, actually. I was trying to figure out a purpose to try and keep going. I I actually still make that decision every day. I, you know, this has been seven years. I've had so many more moments of being happy. And that's been the only thing that has told me that I've been doing good by myself.

SPEAKER_05 20:31

Yeah, sharing such wise, wise words with us. I think, you know, Bruce and I have both talked about that when joy kind of seeps back into our lives. And are we able to embrace that? Are we able to let that happiness in without it feeling like a betrayal or feeling like, is it okay for me to feel happiness? Do you remember those moments when you made that conscious decision of choosing to truly live beyond just surviving, to truly embrace and live your life?

SPEAKER_00 21:06

Yeah. Yeah, I do remember. I was starting to come out of the fog about three years ago. Maybe four. But part of it was I was one of the caretakers of four of her kids. Not every day, but once a week for the last five and almost six years, but sometimes two times a week. That was so hard at first, but you know, I had I had a duty, I felt like, to be strong and to be there for four particular younger ones, right? So I was

Grandkids Ask What Makes You Happy

SPEAKER_00 21:40

focused and determined to be there for them because they were gonna they were grieving too, right? We cried one time, all of us together. And and uh I was driving them around and they're all getting out of control in the car. And then I stopped the car and they were just arguing. It wasn't about mom. I mean, they weren't you know, talking about mom, they were just arguing with each other and yelling and stuff, and I literally just kind of screamed a little bit. It was the only time I've screamed in front of them, and I just said, This should not have happened. And I am so sorry you lost your mom. We all just each other and held each other for you know maybe five minutes off the side of the road. And that was the only time they cried. I haven't seen them cry since. But then following that time, I found like I was. Starting to wake up a little bit to appreciating their beauty. Seeing this, you know, seeing so many qualities of their mom. And but at the same time, when we would I'd be coming down there, they were kind of watching a lot of TV then. Disney movies and stuff. Didn't work for me. So we're sitting there doing the Disney movie and and you know, I'm losing it right in front of excuse myself, go outside, say, I'll be right back. I did that two or three times. And I went outside and I felt like I wanted to be strong for the kids, and they're seeing me just crumble. You know, that's how I felt. I just like, but when I came in this one time after you know 10 minutes outside, here's Olive and Pearl holding notebooks. And they say, Grandpa, could you sit down on the couch? I go, What are you what are you doing? What do you want? I am I'm Pearl and I'm I'm your therapist.

SPEAKER_05 23:32

Oh my goodness. The mouth of babes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:36

So they Pearl came up to me and said, Pearl said, so my job is to take your basic information. What's your name? How old are you? You know, where were you born? And then after she got done with that basic information list, uh Olive came up. And I mean, she's like, you know, literally like she's not even Olive. I mean, she's a therapist. I mean, she's walking up with this posture and just sort of like this caring person, and and then she says to me, I mean, and so now that we got your information, my job my job was to find out what made you happy. I gotta tell you, that changed me. Incredible moment. You know, I did I felt uh a sense of shame at my or uh guilty for not being strong enough, and yet after that moment something switched in me, a determination, I think, to embrace without guilt or shame, you know, my humanness. I started to focus more on my bravery, my courage, rather than thinking of that situation as being my weakness. I started to actually realize that my ability to move forward were these acts of not pretending to be something I wasn't. You know, we all learn to survive and put on a face sometimes. But so often those filters just kind of kept me from really actually discovering the depth of what connection really feels like when you're being authentic, who you are, how you believe or feel about anything. I was trying to impart that kind of wisdom, you know, like I was for a long time saying focused on trying to appreciate their individual things that they do, and and I would just remind them how beautiful they were and and just funny and smart, and it didn't matter what they did. I was trying to never compare them with each other or even with their mom. But sometimes I would say, you do remind me of your mom, but then I'd always follow it up with, but you know what's so unique and different about you is this particular thing.

SPEAKER_03 25:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:55

I really never I never wanted them to think that I was seeing their mother and not them when we would talk. Yeah. So that was the time when it started to change. I guess after uh that counseling session that I had. Determination to not implode and to keep going and try to be as real with myself every day, who I am and how I feel about living on this planet. I think having them and in that particular circumstance probably was they were probably the strongest force on me trying. I don't know how it would have been, you know, without kids. But everybody's journey and in grief is what I've seen and with other people is it's so different for everybody. Yeah. Everything is different. Even though the emotions are can oftentimes people can identify with, but the process of getting to a place of hope, you know, worked for me, may not work for somebody else. So it's very different, right?

SPEAKER_05 27:01

It's a very unique journey. And you've always struck me as such an authentic human being. And for you to say that, you know, those moments with those young grandchildren of yours to think that they were wanting you to find you're happy and they were they were asking you for your humanness and that you took that as such a pivotal moment for your your own grief journey. Definitely. You know, because your openness to speaks volumes for your love for them and your love for Jamie.

SPEAKER_01 27:30

So how has your relationship with grief changed since that moment?

SPEAKER_00 27:36

I would say when the wave of grief hits me, it still does to the same level it did when I got the call that she was in an accident or when we were in that room with the doctors. Yeah. And they told us she wasn't gonna make it. So when it hits me, I will embrace it to as much as I know how to embrace something. I mean, I literally say this hurts so bad that I can't even put it into words. But what with that being said, I literally just say, this

Grief Waves And Tracking Better Days

SPEAKER_00 28:10

is how I feel, where the emotions or the recovery or the the journey is I haven't arrived somewhere. That's now I'm looking back, going, Oh, I remember when I was feeling grief. What I was feeling was that when I embrace the feelings, and I am honest with my Jamie, I'm thinking about you today, it hurts like hell right now. And then when I really just bear it, it's you know, it I'm I'm doing it, you know, instead of for a week at a time, I'm doing it for like a minute. And then what I find is by acknowledging that I don't know if you can hear me helps me. I believe in a world of endless possibilities, but I just don't have the evidence to kind of say, oh, it's this or it's that. I'll just say, Jamie, I'm gonna talk to you as if you're here. So here you are. And I'm just I don't know if you're here, but this is what I would say to you. And for some reason, without faking it with myself, you know, like I don't want to just say, tell somebody, oh yeah, you know, there's an afterlife and there's this and that. I don't really know. But I'll say to her, I hope there is. I hope I can see you again. But by saying that seems to help me get through the dark faster. And so that's when I find that my journey of grief is an expansion of some better moments of where I'm at peace. Peaceful moments, they're growing. It's like most people with life, it's you know, sometimes three steps forward, two steps back. But when what I was doing, uh, you guys about um I couldn't remember what I did this week, that kind of thing, because it gets so complicating. And so it was hard to actually say, yes, I'm doing better, because I couldn't quite remember what I was doing Monday through Thursday. Yeah. So I started to put a number on the day at the end of the day. And I but I I had to keep it really simple, one to five. And so it's like one, three, three, five, five, ooh, four. And I was seeing a I was seeing a trend, you know, and and it was like, oh, you know, I'm actually having better days. Because I don't know about you, but like when it hits, I forget everything. It seems like uh I don't remember if I had a good day or not yesterday. But then when I write down that number, I start to remember why I had a good day. So it triggered something in my brain to remember, like, oh my god, yeah, I was I was giving all of a driving lesson. I was wrestling with Salvador, I was playing with the dog, you know, and whatever. And and sometimes I think uh that numbering thing helped me. I still do it, but I don't do it every month. I mean every week. I'll probably do it two weeks out of the month.

SPEAKER_03 31:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:17

And it's just a one, four or five, just something as kind of a routine thing. I don't spend a whole lot of time, but I do find that oh, I guess the frequency of being rocked is minimizing quite a bit. I mean it is. But you know, part of the reason why I think it is a little bit too, is there's a lot of people in my life that aren't in my life anymore. Um, and sometimes I felt like that. I had to change some of those people. There is a grief about letting those people go because there was love there. But when I kept coming back to what are the things that are pulling me down in the hole, you know, it's not just thinking of losing my daughter, which has been primarily 100% of it, but it's

Shrinking Circles And Safe People

SPEAKER_00 32:05

the people that are judgmental, people who refuse to even acknowledge my daughter. And you know what? No one calls me ever and says that that says, How are you doing with Jamie today? I mean, it's her anniversary. How are you doing, Uncle? Yeah. There's one that does, but out of about ten other people, you know, not a word. So it it was disappointing, but it was my expectations. My expectations are driving me nuts. Like I'm it's like going to a bar to have an AA meeting. You know, it's like, you know, if you go to the wrong people, if you listen to people who you know don't understand, uh, and they're looking at you like a deer in the headlights because you're trying to explain, you know, how you're feeling, and you know they don't understand, it's just like it affects me, even though I won't be mean to somebody, you know, but I'll say they're feeling almost like worse that I shared with the wrong person. So it's helped me to be more mindful and be that person for somebody else, too, you know, to be willing to to listen and not just have an excuse to tell your story. Some of the people that I've I've let go as friends, you know, this one guy tries to be, or he comes off like he, you know, he's you know, because we've known each other for a lot of years, he comes off, you know, kind of like I care. You know, I care about what happened to you, and he'll even tear up and stuff. But when he asks me about that, how do you feel? He gives me 10 seconds, and then he's just talking about himself. And you know, that used to really just bring me down. And I finally just said, you know, I just can't pursue this anymore. So I think finding a different playground. I'm a person that I've realized that I'm I'm not, you know, I've been uh in the public eye for a long time, you know, playing music, crowds, and you know, that whole world. But I am that person now that is more wanting to be connected, you know, to a few and not to a lot. God, it just seems to be so fulfilling to feel like that uh you've been heard. And I find that even now when I'm hearing somebody's tell tell me their grief's journey, there's nothing to say but to listen. I mean, it seems like you know, there's I've I have a few friends that I've made. I I get together with them and it's such a mutual exchange of love and understanding. Yeah, God, that that has helped me a lot.

SPEAKER_01 34:45

Kristen and I have talked about this on previous episodes about that circle of friends and and how it shrinks and that there's a discernment now on who do we let in. And I think that resonates with with our listeners is this is not unique. This is not a unique story in drawing that circle down to those that that it matters how you feel and you know that it's a safe space. So the best thing that you can do is listen. And it's yeah, it's just providing a safe space because there's not a lot of safe spaces for us unless we create them. So Scott, what would you want dad's perspective? What would you want a newly bereaved dad to know?

SPEAKER_00 35:39

I could not see surviving one day. The whole world, I mean, that that first day on into the next was numb, it was dark, it was hopeless, totally hopeless. The only thing I could say to somebody who just lost a kid is I'm not feeling that

Advice For Newly Bereaved Dads

SPEAKER_00 36:00

way anymore. Yeah. I had moments to feel pain that was that excruciating pain, but I've discovered that it wasn't at the time that I lost her that I understood what I needed to do to move forward. It was just surviving. Yeah. So I was out there walking every day and crying, screaming and pissed off, all that stuff. But the only thing I would say is I hope you don't give up and know that you're not alone in this journey, that you'll find your own path. And I didn't see any answer at the time. I had people saying certain things to me about what it was going to look like, and it didn't look like that for me. Yeah. So there's already conflict going on, and it's a hard journey. But I I I want to say to the person who just lost someone that I have since then found moments where I was so happy that I was just crying joyous tears. I have found moments that has given me hope to like really laugh again. And I have laughed. I haven't laughed as much as I'd like, but it's growing. And this is really not knowing if I'll ever see anybody again. But I write songs that sort of indicate that I will. Or one song's called Endless Road, and the last verse goes, I will not say goodbye. I'll see you later on. Because no matter where I am, I carry you on the endless road. So I still have imaginings about seeing not just her, but you know, all the loved ones that have passed. I mean, I would have never dreamed of even being where I'm at today seven years ago. I mean, so the darkness is like when you want to just sometimes kill yourself, sometimes just drink yourself to death or take drugs, or just do something crazy. Most people I've talked to in that first period of time after they lose a child, um, they'll go through a lot of these types of emotions. But you're not alone. Reach out to the best of your ability. Try and find somebody that you could share your story with. Doing it alone, at least I found, is pretty difficult. Isolation can really make it it's what we go to, many of us. Sure. There are people out there like me or like you guys, you know, where you can make yourself available just to have coffee and talk and listen and say, hey, you know, um, we're not going to tell you how to do anything. We just want you to know we care. And I think that helped me a lot when Betsy first reached out to me. Oh, I you know, I'm still alive. There's something maybe to hold on to. Yeah.

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Scott, we both appreciate so much you coming in and sharing your story and being vulnerable. And I know there are there are absolutely things that you said that will resonate and mean something to our listeners. And that's why we do this. Like you said, less alone, someone to talk to and someone to listen to. Thank you so much for coming on and sharing your story about Jamie and about you and about your grandkid therapists. That's amazing.

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Don't miss your appointment, grandpa. Are you gonna have to pay double? Scott, thanks so much. Hey, thanks for having me. And uh, I appreciate the work both of you are doing to try and make this journey a little bit more bearable. You've done a lot, both of you have.

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Thank you.

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So thank you.

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Scott, thank you for sharing Jamie with us. Thank you for allowing us to know a little more about the remarkable woman she was, her compassion, her humor, her music, her devotion to her children, and the profound impact she continues to have on your life and the lives of those who loved her. As we release this episode on Father's Day weekend, we want to take a moment to acknowledge every bereaver listening today. Father's Day can be complicated after the loss of a child. For some, it brings gratitude and cherished memories. For

Father’s Day Closing And Carrying Love

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others, it brings heartache, longing, and a reminder of the empty chair at the table, an empty bedroom, or in Scott's case, missing his favorite duat partner. But for many, it's a combination of all at the same time. What Scott reminds us is that fatherhood doesn't end with the death of a child. The love remains, the connection remains. The lessons our children taught us remain. We continue carrying them forward in our stories, our choices, our memories, and in the way we love others. One of the most powerful themes from this conversation is that grief doesn't disappear. The waves still come, the pain still arrives, but over time we learn how to hold it differently. We learn that joy and sorrow can coexist. We learn that living again is not a betrayal of our child, but a tribute to the love we shared with them. You know, and perhaps one of the most beautiful moments in this episode came from Jamie's children who sat their grandfather down for an impromptu therapy session and asked a simple but profound question. What makes you happy? For those of us carrying loss, that question is still worth asking. To every father missing a child this Father's Day, we see you. We honor your love, we honor your grief, and we honor the bond that death cannot erase. Thank you for spending this time with us. If this episode resonated with you, please share it with another bereaved parent or with someone who wants to better understand the lifelong journey of child loss. If you want to connect with Scott or any of us, please drop a note in the link you'll find in the show notes. Happy Father's Day to all the dads carrying their children in their hearts today. Until next time, be kind to yourself and don't forget to breathe.