For this second episode on dissociative identity disorder (DID; commonly known as "multiple personality disorder"), we welcome back patient Molly to meet some of her other personalities! In our last episode, Molly and her therapist Dr. Caitlin Fang described what it's like to live with 13 other separate personalities or "parts," who all have their own perspectives, opinions, secrets, skills, interests, ages, and even accents! While Molly got to talk about her experiences, some of her parts were eager to share their side of the story. In this incredible episode, Alex, Ruby and Slayer join us to talk about what it's like to be the other personalities of someone with DID.
Resources:
For this second episode on dissociative identity disorder (DID; commonly known as "multiple personality disorder"), we welcome back patient Molly to meet some of her other personalities! In our last episode, Molly and her therapist Dr. Caitlin Fang described what it's like to live with 13 other separate personalities or "parts," who all have their own perspectives, opinions, secrets, skills, interests, ages, and even accents! While Molly got to talk about her experiences, some of her parts were eager to share their side of the story. In this incredible episode, Alex, Ruby and Slayer join us to talk about what it's like to be the other personalities of someone with DID.
Resources:
Welcome back, little Helpers. So last time on our podcast we had Molly, who suffers from dissociative identity disorder, and we got some feedback after our episode. We got from you all, because we were actually recording this before releasing, but from Molly's alters, who felt like they should be part of the conversation too, and this made us incredibly excited because we would love to meet everybody here who has something to say. So first of all, molly, welcome back, and can you tell us what kind of feedback you got from your alters?
Speaker 2:As soon as we finished, it was like a kindergarten classroom Everybody was very excited, had something to say and an opinion, and all of it was positive, like for the first time. It was like something that like everybody agreed upon which was great, versus it being negative, having a voice and being validated. And then also the questions of moving forward to today and then possibly having a voice like that really sparked several of them, because there's not many times that they really have a choice, a chance to have their own voice out in the world other than around. You know, in therapy, at home, my partner or people aren't even aware that it's them that they're talking to.
Speaker 1:So this is actually a pretty big deal. Then they're like talking to like thousands of people.
Speaker 3:today I should have said that, yeah, and I also wanted to jump in just in case people are listening who didn't get a chance to listen to the last episode. We? Molly was so gracious to share her story of discovering that she had dissociative identity disorder, which sounded like it was a challenge in and of itself, like just finding the right diagnosis. It was a rare disorder but Molly has managed to make it her superpower learning to, learning to manage it and make it work for her and keeping her parts all 13 of them right? 13?, yeah, and living life with them and living and learning different skills to manage them, learning different skills to manage difficult emotions and experiences.
Speaker 3:I'm summarizing. You know so much of what we talked about in a beautiful journey and, just like you know a couple of sentences, but, yeah, it was just a really inspiring conversation that we had. That, you know, I still hesitate to call a disorder because this is like a way of life that you've made it work for you and found an amazing therapist and Dr Caitlyn Fang, someone who really cares about you, who listens, listened to your needs, developed an evidence-based intervention that really listened to what you wanted out of treatment, right or am?
Speaker 2:I just yes, and that's the key too. You know what I wanted out of treatment, versus just necessarily what any textbook or anyone supposedly said. This is the way and not just listening to myself, but my alters too, and us as a whole and each as an individual and how we wanted to proceed with life.
Speaker 3:Is it is the right term alters or parts. What do you like to use?
Speaker 2:I say parts Okay, interchangeable word Okay, great yeah.
Speaker 4:What's so interesting and like we have all been trained in third wave flexible, contractual behavioral therapies and for every other population, we start out by being like what do you want? What are your goals? And like, for whatever reason, with this population, treatment tends to be like all right, so you clearly want integration and really just got to do psychodynamic therapy for a really long time. It was just such an interesting thing after so much training where I was just like, okay, if somebody has 13 different problems and only want to do one, it's not your job to make them work on the other 12. It's your job to help them achieve the goals, as long as, like, there is no ethical violation and our safety risk. Like it really is patient driven and this was a cool opportunity to be able to apply that to this and it's be like wait.
Speaker 3:I don't actually think a lot of people know that about how much we as therapists try to listen to what our patients want and tailor our approaches to that. I mean, good therapy does that. But there are a lot of patients with all sorts of disorders who say, yeah, my anger or my anxiety or this coping mechanism is something that's really important to me, that kept me safe, and you're just going to tell me you're going to get rid of this with therapy. I don't want that and we have to figure out a way to help them with that. So I think that your story was a beautiful example of that of like no, these parts are important to me and I want to keep them.
Speaker 2:Yes, it's how I get through every day, just like even today going to the dentist.
Speaker 3:How did that happen?
Speaker 2:I don't like going to the dentist. I don't know how many people do. It's very difficult and for years I did not go, and now it's very important to me to take care of my teeth and so I chipped a tooth and I needed to go now and have it addressed. But the great thing is is like I can either choose to drive there or let somebody else that's allowed to drive and just not be there. Like I don't have to take medication or be sedated to go to the dentist. I can just let someone else be there who is responsible and can give me the information or make sure that it's handled appropriately. And like I don't remember. I don't remember what in there today. I don't remember what happened. I know what happened in my mouth is a little sore, but like I don't have that like anxiety and that being exhausted from even dealing with that today because somebody else did.
Speaker 4:Well, I kind of a tangent but we were talking about that today, yesterday, whenever we last met and kind of the intentionality around association, like if you use exercise as your way of coping, like when do you go from a run, versus like when do you actually need to grieve, when do you actually need to feel mad at your partner. And so we talked through, like I think Molly was like well, I have to drive there and tell the dentist, do you? Or like could you download that information to someone? Like what are the parts and how can we leverage this? So like the rest of the day is not a giant panic attack.
Speaker 4:Like what are the ways in which you want to use this? Versus like when are the moments when it automatically takes over, when you need to tune back in? So like if we are grieving and it's just like nope, we don't usually feel sad as at this level, how can we turn that off? Or like override that automatic impulse? So it's more of a choice for how to cope versus like an automatic thing that's gone off the rails in real time.
Speaker 1:That is so super fascinating. I just keep thinking I wish I could offload my dissertation to someone someone else inside of me but thinking about how yeah, sometimes it's something that you might be tempted to do too often and having to realize when, like you, molly, have to go through the hard things because it's better for you in the long run, when you know that you could let one of your parts take over, that is super fascinating. Did you have resistance to that at first?
Speaker 2:That is actually one of the biggest challenges and biggest anxieties. For the longest time you really be able to be aware of when someone else was out and allowing them to be, versus just them taking over or them working within to ask permission or for me to allowing the ones when I don't want to do something that are willing to do it. Like years of working, and it's just been really within the last couple that there's like some I don't know flow about it, where there's like agreement and more of, I guess, control in some way. There are plenty of times I don't have it, but I'd say probably 75% of the day. I'm aware that I'm present and if I want to allow somebody, I can or they can ask, instead of it just being where they took over and I didn't remember a large chance.
Speaker 1:Do you feel as if, through that work of kind of confronting some of these things that you would maybe otherwise allow other parts of yourself, do you feel like you're becoming a fuller person, a more contoured, like, complex person?
Speaker 2:Yeah, because I'm not allowing my own fears or insecurities about certain things, someone else handling me, dealing with it. Like Caitlin said, dealing with emotions, strong emotions, grief me feeling it versus someone else and then maybe like why do I kind of feel off and my body kind of aches and not really realizing what it is being to sit with emotions, is still challenging because it is so easy. Somebody else will want to take it over, even if I don't necessarily want them to, because it may be their job.
Speaker 4:Well, it feels a lot like parenting in some ways where, like I know, I need to let my kid do certain things, but I'm like, oh, no, no, no, no. If there's a risk of you falling, I'm going to hold you and I'm going to make sure it's not that I'm even choosing that. It's just like. That is the impulse, is like I have to protect this human, and learning that like oh, she could take a few steps without me being like oh, it goes against the inherent, ingrained impulse of like must do for you, like you helpless little creature, and I think part of it is petulance with some of the parts, but a lot of it is just like no, no, no, no. We have to save you, we have to keep you from having to feel this, we must suffer so you don't have to, which is kind, and also we've got to work against it sometimes.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we got to trust you to be able to do it.
Speaker 4:Fantastic, all right. So we have in our little family structure two littles who have been aging, but Beth and Colleen, who are both under five and they are learning how to self-soothe. And in the process of that, we have oh man, roll call, let's see if I can do this. Eli, who is a free teen who enjoys camping, hiking, was in charge of like survival, so being able to flee from the house and like survive in the woods or survive in different environments when you had to. Ruby, 15 year old female, who holds some big, big emotions and all of the fun hormones that go with that. We have Jamie, nine, 10. Who I have worked with a lot and who is a delight, very creative. We have Alex, who is 18, who we are going to be talking to. We have Mark and Ray, who are executive functioning folks who are able to take over and do tasks that are like need getting done, kind of like if you need to do distress tolerance and go into a work meeting and then you can fall apart. They are the work meeting folks and the fixing machines and doing the tinkering. We have Miss Emma, who is she sows. She is a lady delightful, rocking chairs, yarn, the like who also takes care of the littles.
Speaker 4:We have little, who holds some of the family dynamics. We have Colby, who is still a mystery to me, who was a late merger in our therapeutic relationship. We have Slayer, who holds anger, who feel guilty, missing people. Did I get them all? I'm so sorry if there is one of you that I missed, and it's not because I don't love you. We have chatted, molly and I, about folks who could benefit from having a voice and who would love to share and answer questions. We thought that having Slayer talk to you well would be a lovely way of hearing from a part that is traditionally depicted as really scary In the movies. For whatever reason, everyone with DID has a serial killer in there. Wow, is that absurd? Not our reality? Perhaps somebody that is certainly not what we are working with. Slayer is the part who holds anger and is just a delight. Just a delight, yes, and Alex and Ruby would love to chat. If there's anyone else who has strong thoughts, we are also open. Are you getting any vibes as to who might like to come out first?
Speaker 2:Ruby.
Speaker 4:And Tosca All right. So Ruby is a delight. She is a creator, she has big feelings and big thoughts, and she is also the part that has really spearheaded the mission to like expand upon the rooms in the house so that parts can have a space where they can get their needs met without having to be in the physical world. Cause, as you might imagine, if somebody needs to like color and like actually take time in the world every time they feel a feeling, molly would never have a moment in the day that wasn't taken up and still folks would not get their needs met. So she has created a lie on the witch in the wardrobe situation, in a literal wardrobe in her room that has expanded out to create an entire universe that integrates parts of real places she'd like to visit and like fantastical places, so she can go and wander through the woods. It is just like the coolest thing.
Speaker 4:I don't know how she does it. I certainly didn't teach her. So she is a delight. I'm gonna look away. I'm actually going to like turn my camera off because I will dissociate while you switch, and I don't wanna do that.
Speaker 4:So I'll be back get and chat with you.
Speaker 3:Hello Hi.
Speaker 2:Are you Ruby? Hi, I'm Ruby.
Speaker 3:Nice to meet you. I'm Kibby.
Speaker 1:I'm Jacqueline.
Speaker 3:Hey, jacqueline.
Speaker 2:I can't run.
Speaker 3:Lovely to meet you. Thanks for joining us.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm excited.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we heard that you had a lot to say about this whole podcast process. What's on your mind?
Speaker 2:Wow, because the things that we've listened to from other people we think are bullshit and not saying that everybody is, but it's not like how we live and what life really is like for us and we're not dangerous, we're not crazy and we're not going anywhere. Great.
Speaker 3:What is life like for you?
Speaker 2:You have to learn how to get along A lot of you Because each of us have a role that we play and so like we're not always the one that gets to be out and doing things for Molly, and when you want something, you have to work together so that you can have it.
Speaker 2:And it gets kind of crazy because the little ones cry a lot and then the guys want to go do things and then you want to do something else and then they're hitting any money or Molly's tired, and you know. It just gets a lot.
Speaker 1:What's it like for you to be not let out very often?
Speaker 2:Well, I've worked really hard in my room where I have all kinds of things I like to do art and crafts and create things Me too. And yeah, I saw your quilling at Quill.
Speaker 1:You Quill? I never knew people who Quill. That's so cool, sweet yes.
Speaker 2:So sometimes I just stay in the room by myself and I'll do my stuff. And then I also have another door that after a long time of working and working with Caitlin and we worked on some things and worked with Molly then I realized that it was okay that I don't have to be here all the time, but I don't have to leave either. So I go in my other door and I have created a place where if I want to go travel, I pick somewhere and I read about it and I travel there and I can be gone for a day a week and I don't have to worry about being there for Molly. I can do my own thing. Great, when do you go? I've been to Paris.
Speaker 3:Ooh, I've never been to Paris. I didn't like it. Oh no, why not?
Speaker 2:I don't speak French. Oh yeah, that's a problem Very difficult, because, like nobody spoke English, mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I've been out on a cruise in the water, oh yeah, and I have a notebook that I'm studying different places that I wanna go, because that's kind of new to be able to get to go. Usually it's just being able to be in the room and creating a big art studio or a pottery studio and everything that nobody else gets to see or gets to be a part of.
Speaker 1:Do you let in the other parts into your room so they can see your studio?
Speaker 2:My room, but not my back room. I don't allow anybody to go back there.
Speaker 3:You don't wanna take anyone on a trip? No, I'm a problem.
Speaker 2:I'm like living with 13 other people all the time and it's hard to have your own privacy and keep your thoughts to yourselves. For a long time we all had our own thoughts and then it started, kind of, where we would hear what each other were saying or worried about or complaining about, and yeah, that's a lot. That was a lot. The little ones used to cry all the time and that's what I've been a lot of time doing was taking care of the little ones, so they didn't cry all the time and you could kind of function sometimes and yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So could you tell us, like, how is your relationship with Molly different than it is with the other parts?
Speaker 2:Because the other parts still know things that Molly doesn't know. There's still memories and still different situations and even sometimes emotions that we don't allow her to feel or be a part of but, we kind of have the little ones don't know a lot about the bigger ones, but us older ones we know about just about everybody's issues deal, job, trauma, whatever.
Speaker 2:There must be a lot of work and responsibility for you to have that to protect her in that way, yeah, and it's taken a long time to really trust Molly, where, like I, don't have to be available all the time you know to if something's going crazy or there's something going wrong, or then I need to do whatever.
Speaker 3:What was your job or what is your job? What do you do for Molly?
Speaker 2:It's changed a lot over time, because I held a lot of the big emotions that were and it was like crisis and I used to do a lot of self harm and having to work on not doing that to keep even Molly from doing that. That was somehow to relieve, whatever the issue was at the moment, and so I had to learn tools not to do that, to gain trust with Molly and, yeah, we finally got past that.
Speaker 4:Cause you crushed it and like that hasn't been a problem in so long that you get to enjoy so much freedom and you've actually become really effective at advocating for your needs. We are currently planning a tattoo as a reward for handling very intense emotions for a long time with no self harm. Wow, it's a doing hard work.
Speaker 2:One of the cool things that we learned to do when we used to self harm was, instead of cutting, using a red marker on whatever body part, like it was, either our thighs or our arms, and that way, like you could still see something and like have a sensation, but you were doing, like no harm to your body, smart, mm-hmm. And then somebody taught us about the butterfly, something about you use butterfly stickers, and that worked for a while.
Speaker 3:But that was cheesy, but how do you like therapy, ruby? I know that Molly was talking about her experience with working with Caitlin, but it must be, must have been, hard.
Speaker 2:Yeah, therapy is hard. I like Caitlin, caitlin likes me and that makes she listens and she's good to Molly too, so that makes it easier. Yeah, and by doing therapy and some of the things we've done, because we've done that prolonged exposure, then you don't have all them crazy thoughts and see the things and have the flashbacks and worry about things, like it starts going away where it's not like right in your face all the time. You might just sometimes remember this stuff and that makes it easier to draw something pretty instead of something gruesome.
Speaker 4:And so, for context, I have primarily worked with Molly directly, with prolonged exposure and if any of the parts are having nightmares, flashbacks, because it is all one body all of that trickles out, and so Molly was having lots and lots of symptoms, but with no real idea of what was happening, and so I've done a couple not many, you're a special snowflake but a couple of rounds of prolonged exposure with different parts that are targeted on full memory traumas that they hold, so that when I was working with Molly, if it wasn't trickling down in the same way and you have to actually be the one to repeat the memory and to do the exposures we were able to get that relief for the whole system. Just hard work. You were 13 at the time, I think, and I was at a loss of therapist, so we made it work, though we did it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we did it.
Speaker 2:We did it because it's nice not to have nightmares all the time yeah. It's nice not to see things from the past when you're welcome in your own house yeah. And it's nice not to be afraid and have to hold all that fear all the time too, yeah.
Speaker 1:And then how do you? It sounds like you're the part that holds all the really big emotions. That's a big thing to carry as a 13 to 15 year old. How do you feel about that role and why do you think? What do you think makes you the one who should do it?
Speaker 2:I think it's important and it's because at one time Molly was not able to get into things that were going on and the traumas that were happening. There were already others there, she just wasn't aware of it.
Speaker 4:And then, as things started getting harder to deal with and that became my job to do, and if you think about it, like the folks who are the like we were just talking about this, it's so funny that there are the big, strong men who get the stuff done, and what an interesting thing that we constructed. But I think like, if we think about dysregulation and having these really, really big emotions, that isn't really compatible with being the person who's like I'm going to attend the work meeting and I'm gonna work on the car, and so all the parts who had these like more instrumental jobs were like emotions. No, thank you, that is going to get in the way of me doing my job. And so, like there were a lot of different roles. For some folks it was holding a specific trauma that was just like really, really big, and that was their entire job, was like do not let Molly know that this occurred, no matter what, just hold on to it.
Speaker 4:And then folks like Ruby, where I was like all right, you are in charge of all the feelings, and like learning how to cope with them. And so it actually makes sense that for a long time, that was self-harm because, like, those are really really big feelings and that is one strategy that is effective in the short term, even though it is harmful in the long term, and so it's just. It's so interesting how all of the roles are very compatible. That is a stuffy one, though. It props to you for doing such an incredible job of shaling that into art and creativity and creation. It's very impressive.
Speaker 2:You still have to get stuff out sometimes. Others like to break things and others like to write, and creating things is just, I don't know. It feels good and it's nice to be able to do something that feels good.
Speaker 3:Tell us what you like to create. When you wanna get something out, Tell us what you like to create. You mentioned ceramics or pottery. You mentioned you have a whole art studio and Quilling. What's your favorite way?
Speaker 2:Painting is my favorite. I like to play with different mediums, whether it's oil, acrylic or using charcoal, with some sketching, but I'm not really that good at drawing.
Speaker 1:Do you ever get to do art out in the world, or is it always in your studio?
Speaker 2:Usually it's up here in the house Sometimes when I go out. We've taken pencils and stuff with this. Our next project we've got a big canvas and a big old shower curtain we're gonna put up on the side of the shed out back and we're gonna do a big something out there with big paint brushes and sling paint make something. We've never done something so big before, but we're excited about doing that.
Speaker 3:Cool.
Speaker 1:What do you want for yourself? Like you've been doing all this super hard work for so long and now Molly's in treatment and you're in treatment, like where do you see you going and growing?
Speaker 2:I like it that I've finally gotten older and that's good, and I see us doing more things together to help Molly, and as long as I get to do my art and have a little bit of and nobody really messes with me, it's all good, because we're not going anywhere, molly's not asking us to leave. We just might not have to be right here all the time, so that leaves me more time to do art and learn how to do stuff. That's nice.
Speaker 3:You don't have to work as much, you don't have to protect her as much. You can spend time doing things that you care about and having more freedom.
Speaker 2:And I don't have to spend this much time with the the other parts, like I used to do.
Speaker 3:Do you not like the other?
Speaker 2:parts.
Speaker 3:Do you know what the other parts know or feel, or do you all kind of keep to yourselves?
Speaker 2:At this point, all of us older ones know everything just about about each other. There's just things Like I choose not to hear everything about some of the others' promise, like kind of aware and kind of aware of the feelings and the awareness, of keeping that away from Molly so like she doesn't know too much, too soon, too fast. Yeah, and I talk, we talk to each other about things so that Molly doesn't have to hear everything too, because there's a lot of information.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I don't know if we talked about this last time, but like there is a common area where Molly can hear anything that's happening there, and then in the room, as long as the door is closed, that is like a sound barrier.
Speaker 3:Oh, so like how well this can occur, or if you just want to tune out everybody else, there is like a little private space that each part has I see, so the parts you could go into each other's rooms and talk to them, but Molly won't hear what you're talking about, I see.
Speaker 4:I'll or Steve, like a meditation room, like a. Oh nice, like a. You got some fancy amenities up in there, nice.
Speaker 1:This place sounds topist fog. Yeah, you get to open a door in your Paris. You have this art studio. Good.
Speaker 2:And not everybody can do it Like. I know that Alex has been working and Eli had been working on trying to create some space behind their room, but I don't know exactly how that's coming along for them. But we talk about it and I think part of it too sometimes is they're knowing that when you don't have to be on call all the time, you know.
Speaker 4:I like. Correct me if I'm wrong, but my impression is you have the equivalent of a magic walkie-talkie whereby, if you are like needed or summoned, you have some bat signal that lets you know like, hey, do you come on home? Is that true or did I just make that up?
Speaker 2:No, that's basically the truth, because that's why I get to still be here, because if Molly needs me, I'm always here, but I don't have to be part of everything all the time.
Speaker 1:Do you ever feel resentful that you have to protect Molly so much and hold so much pain? Or does that just feel like that's you protecting and loving her? Or is it a little both, a little of?
Speaker 2:both. Like I don't really do anger, that's kind of somebody else kind of holds, like you know. It's the sadness and the anxiety and even like some of the joy is kind of it would be nice if there was more time to be out, you know. But it doesn't really work that way anymore. Used to be we could just take over and have all the time you wanted, whether it was a day or week or whatever. And then that didn't go so well for a while and started working together. And if we work together then everybody is guaranteed at some point, kind of like we have a calendar. It has a day assigned to it, but if there's something you're wanting to do or an event you're wanting to go to or something you can switch with somebody else, or if there's somebody that's really upset, need something, then we just kind of work together.
Speaker 4:Banded. That take a while. That was like a solid half a year.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but some people don't like to like, they just want it their way, and that's it.
Speaker 3:Which ones which?
Speaker 1:parts, give us the dirt on everyone else.
Speaker 2:Well, that would mostly be like Alex and Eli Once Slayer comes out. It used to be hard. He would come out and he would stay out for a long time and cause a lot of chaos. But that was even before Caitlin and yeah, that doesn't matter. She got to know us when we were kind of like starting on the even kill.
Speaker 4:Is there anything else that you would like to share or voice or express? I don't know, I just wanted to give you an open floor opportunity before we bring out our next guest, kibi Japlin. Do you have any other questions for Ruby?
Speaker 1:No, I think so it was so much fun meeting you. I wish I could see your art. Yeah, me too. Your imagination and the worlds you've created just sound unbelievably cool, and you sound so talented.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I can't wait to hear about your next trip where you decide to go, oh nice.
Speaker 1:I wish we had the visual for this, because your faces are so much fun and so we're so excited.
Speaker 4:I have a sense of who wants to come out next.
Speaker 2:Caitlin. Is this layer.
Speaker 1:Hi, it's nice to meet you.
Speaker 2:I heard your British accent and I assumed I don't know where it came from, it's just different from everybody else's.
Speaker 1:Nice to meet you.
Speaker 3:Claire, I'm Kibi.
Speaker 2:Nice to meet you. Kibi Nice to meet you. Jacqueline Nice to meet you.
Speaker 3:So we hear that you are the keeper of anger. You have a really important job.
Speaker 2:Yes, my role is a little bit different than the others and that is pretty much what I do. I hold anger, I keep it. I've kept it from Molly, I've kept it from the others, I've kept them safe. I've kept them safe from anger. I've held the anger. And even expressing anger I used to be very dangerous. You could not express, no one could see it. There was more of a repercussion if it was exposed. So you have to under control it. And then you know, at times I would become volatile and that's not acceptable either. So that's where I came along and that's why I hold it, and I'm not just because in the past I would do things that were crazy. It doesn't mean that I'm bad, I am not evil. I just get angry and sometimes I like to express, I like to break shit.
Speaker 3:Anger is one of my favorite emotions. Caitlin knows that. Oh, actually, jacqueline also knows that very well. Tell us a little bit more about anger. How do you experience it? What do you like to do with it? What does it feel like?
Speaker 2:I feel anger inside. It's like I start rattling in my guts and it moves up and it's almost like you can feel your blood start pulsing throughout your body and that's one of the reasons why I like to sling shit. I like to break things. Eli likes to burn things, but I like to break things. There were times I could break people and I couldn't, so now it's break things.
Speaker 1:Does Eli feel anger too, or is that exclusively your territory?
Speaker 2:Eli holds some anger, a lot of the anger from the younger ones. That's quite as. There was a time I was very vengeful. I never acted on it. But this is more of that childish anger, just anger at the world.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Where I have specific people and incidences that I'm very angry about and things I would like to, but there's only so much you can do, you know.
Speaker 1:It sounds like you have so many things to be vengeful about and that anger is so incredibly valid, but what's it like to have to just be angry all the time? Are you angry all the time, or is it just sometimes?
Speaker 2:No, not all the time, just a lot of the time. I express myself. A lot of times I'm very short, very direct, sometimes a little loud, because I just don't have time for bullshit and stupidity.
Speaker 4:It's also.
Speaker 4:What is fascinating to me is that you are holding the anger from years of literal torture, people who literally tortured you, people who neglected, people who knew what was happening and did nothing Like profound anger.
Speaker 4:In a sense that if we think of the worst things people have done to us and multiply that by 10, it's like a tiny fraction of what you hold. And yet, despite being the person who holds all that anger, you are so clear on moral boundaries. I understand urges for vengeance and I understand feeling the immensity of that and also fully understand that acting on it in violent ways is not actually going to make it better. That's what's incredible to me, because if we think of anger, we think of this blind, impulsive, reckless, dangerous and I mean, to be fair, I didn't know you your whole life, but since I have known you, there is just this very deeply mature quality where I wish that I could have what you have when I am angry, to be able to say I totally fully appreciate that I should feel this and this is valid and the ways in which I can act on it are this much, because that is my value system Wild. It's wild, but I didn't even teach you that?
Speaker 1:Where did you learn that?
Speaker 2:When you see so much evil, when you see so much horror and so much pain, you want to become that, to be vengeful, to express yourself, but that for some reason, you don't want to be that. You have to do the opposite and that's part of why I held all the anger. So, like this child, this young woman, if she were to explode it would be just horrific and cause more pain, more torture, more disforce. So that's where I just took in all the anger.
Speaker 2:And you live with it, you feel it and work on letting it go to some degree. And only little bits does Molly get, only little bits. It's very frightening for her when you live in an angry world all the time from everyone around you. Everyone is always angry about everything and any of your actions cause anger. You don't want to become that Interesting.
Speaker 3:So you're in charge of feeling the anger but also protecting Molly for what anger can do if it just burst out. Did you also work with Caitlin in therapy, or have you done work on yourself, or are you just learning this on your own?
Speaker 2:I was in the first past working before we met Caitlin. I worked with Debbie for a while and then just absorbing really what Caitlin has to say and Molly has done, and then Caitlin and I've had conversations and as each of us have grown like it's also helped me grow that I don't just I've ended up with the little ones bullshit. So therefore I have to behave to so that it doesn't affect the little ones to be crazy either.
Speaker 1:When do you come out Like when does Molly let you take over?
Speaker 2:I'm one of the ones to get scheduled in.
Speaker 3:You don't look happy about that. Did you take the steering wheel a little bit too long sometimes? Did you miss the past?
Speaker 2:In the past. Yes, that was the thing, and I can understand now where that comes from, but it doesn't mean that I deserve it now either.
Speaker 4:But what? You violate the contingencies, you get your turn skid. But we have to do that in a very long time, like I'm sure, maybe pretty mad and For a while, my room, my door, was locked.
Speaker 2:I wasn't allowed out Because, like anything that I had to say, feel express was beyond her ability and or the fact that she was just bloody afraid of me and and I really, really isn't a reason to be afraid of anger, necessarily.
Speaker 3:I was wondering if she was scared of anger or scared of what you would do with anger or what you would do if you came out.
Speaker 2:What do you think the thing is? That's the thing from the past, because in the past, you know, I disappeared several times.
Speaker 3:Where did you go?
Speaker 2:I went to Florida and decided I wanted to go to Disney World. I didn't call anybody and there were writing things that shouldn't have been broken or leaving. You know, just a verbal outburst.
Speaker 1:So, slare, you said something kind of cool, which is you don't need to be afraid of anger. And it's just struck me because I have so many patients who are so afraid of anger, and they're afraid of their own anger. So what do you think about that? Why don't you think we need to be afraid of anger?
Speaker 2:Because there's something we all feel. There's something we all feel, you know Anger makes you want to change something. Anger brings up that sensation. Instead of wanting to collapse, you want to act on it. Act on things Just because people wanted you to sit by and do nothing and that's what you were programmed to do to be still and be whatever. There comes a time when you can have a voice, you can be heard, you can move, you can do things.
Speaker 4:And a lot of the time that Slare has come out recently have been in moments where Molly has really struggled with confrontation to the point where there is like, not like harm, harm, but like those dynamics where it's like, oh, somebody has been a little mean to us and we were just like, nope, not going to deal with it, not going to deal with it, not going to deal with it.
Speaker 4:And then it's like all right, and I have to make deals with Molly where it's like, look, if you're not going to get in touch with that anger and you're not going to allow yourself to feel it, slare doesn't get to come out, he doesn't get to like name call and do a bunch of stuff, but like we need a part that is self-respecting, that is setting limits, that is saying like your behavior to me is not okay. And so it's been like a tag team, contingency Slare. Like Slare, you call people out and ask your names and Slare at them. You're not allowed to do it anymore. And by Spursa, molly is like no, no, no, never mind, it's all fine, it's all fine for too long. And so we're like come on in, because we need anger. We really do, in order to signal to us when our boundaries are violated and when people are being disrespectful to us or to people we love. And Molly is great at defending all the people she cares about, but not as great at defending herself.
Speaker 2:Yeah, she's not. But that's the thing too that I'm working with her. We don't have quote quote consciousness like a lot of the others do. Anything that I do, I have to let her know what I've done, because she is not present when I am present, like she will not remember this until I either allow her to remember and tell her or it's shared with her. We've not been able to gain that dynamic like her and Ruby, or her and Ruby are co-conscious. She knows when Ruby, molly does.
Speaker 3:Is that something you want? Do you want that co-consciousness or do you value having that separation?
Speaker 2:At this point in time, still the separation. Maybe one day.
Speaker 1:Why do you make that distinction, that right now you want that separation?
Speaker 2:Because I still don't think that Molly can handle all the anger if I were to give her the information or allow her to feel it within the body itself Too much.
Speaker 1:How do you feel about you being the one that there's some fear around, like we can't let Slayer out or what Slayer could do it? Makes you laugh.
Speaker 2:You know, I don't know it's fear of my actions. It's not really fear of me that she has, and when the whole world has been big, bad, mean and ugly, then it's just as easy to put it off on me and not want me to be around and not want to hear what I'll have to say. Makes sense. Time's coming. We're working on it.
Speaker 4:That's a bogus.
Speaker 1:What do you want for yourself?
Speaker 2:To be heard Understood. Anger is anger. Evil is evil. Anger is not evil. I'm not the evil one just because I might have that anger. But, my God, I have enough to be angry about yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But this is awesome.
Speaker 3:How do you you were saying that there are certain people that you feel a lot of anger towards right that you know and you were saying you have to hold it sometimes and learn to let it go. How do you work with that? I'm sure there's some people in your life that you still hold a lot of anger to rightfully, so. What do you do with that anger? What do people do with that anger? They've been hurt by someone. They really, really pissed at someone.
Speaker 2:What do you do? For me, one of the things I do on a daily basis is write. I have to put down in words, I have to put it down somewhere. So I put it down in words and I write. I can't draw nothing, but I write. And sometimes I go outside and I scream and nobody can hear us out here. It's great Because, you know, when the mother is still alive and we have to deal with her and, like, I have a lot against her and Molly's working on all that shit Justified. Yes, it's justified. Sometimes I have to remind Molly that I know it's justified. Yeah, sometimes, you know, they all kind of forget about, like, why were I killed and why I have this anger. Everything that happened is a hell of a lot to be angry about. Any child that's gone through what we went through, as long as we went through.
Speaker 1:Yeah, In some ways you make the most sense. How could there not be extreme anger?
Speaker 2:There's a problem if you're not angry about that. Any child that is hurt, no matter how extensively. If somebody doesn't get pissed about that, that's fucked up.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 4:We've talked a lot about effectiveness and like how the difference between acting on anger and like meaning, making ways where, like we are looking into volunteering for kiddos who have been abused and finding opportunities to be like no, no, no, I can protect, I'm a grown up. And like I am able to be a voice for people who don't have voices, versus like vengeance, like there was an action, or just like finding people and just like keeping tabs so that they wouldn't be a threat, and it's like okay, does some extent make sense? And is making you nuts. Like where are the boundaries where anger is helpful and effective? Are there people we want to confront versus not? And thinking through like what are the pros and cons?
Speaker 4:And you've been just so willing to do that, which is again like when we think of anger, we think of this like rage, lack of logic, and you're very much the opposite. Like you're very much like yeah, if there was a benefit to go and completely nuts. And like posting a billboard to the entire world, I would do it, but like actually, that isn't what is going to make this right. It's like having a voice and making sure that other people in this position don't feel trapped and stuck, and so part of it is also channeling anger towards like oh, rage, I just want to smash things Sometimes. Let's go smash things Other times, like how can we direct that in a way that, like, creates growth and goodness instead of more action?
Speaker 2:Action needs to be more action.
Speaker 1:So why did you in particular want to come talk to us today?
Speaker 2:Because I'm not bad, I'm not scary, I sound a little odd, and I hold the anger, and that's even for Molly is so. It's the new one, it's the least dealt with one and like, like she, she's working on it and it's time now. For a long time it wasn't time to hold the grief, the sorrow and the anger all at the same time truly was beyond her capability. And even I don't feel the sorrow, I don't feel that too much.
Speaker 1:My job is. Do you hope to ever integrate all those emotions into yourself, or are you kind of cool, yeah?
Speaker 2:Okay, we had long enough and I gave you the whole story of everything not even everything, but like the legit like of the stuff that we went through to get a true understanding like why would anybody, one person, want to remember all that, feel all that and deal with all that? I mean, there probably are people out there that are quite capable of it, but I'd like to meet them because if they're not just that shit crazy, it's a miracle.
Speaker 3:Are you looking forward to Molly being able to hold more anger, or does that mean there's less for you to do Like? How does that feel if Molly learns to hold more of the anger herself?
Speaker 2:Would be nice to share some of it so that there's not like this wall and division where I see some of the others who've been able to like Ruby. So that would be be nice, because there are still times where you feel like you're living in a secret world, you're holding secrets from somebody you hear deeply about. And it's not secrets, it's reality. It's just like the fact that there has to be the right time for it.
Speaker 3:Right, ruby was saying that because she doesn't, she isn't as needed all the time, she doesn't have to do her job as much anymore. She gets more freedom to do, create and travel and do art. What would that look like for you if you can share a little bit of the anger with Molly? What would you want to do with that freedom?
Speaker 2:I don't know. I think for me part of it is just finding something tranquil whereas there's quiet, being able to go to be around some water and just sit and just be away from all the noise in our head, all the hustle and bustle of daily life that people have to do, finally having some time of peace and quiet. I have a door and one day I will get to go through that door, but right now I don't get to go through that door.
Speaker 4:I'm going to secret, though you can Not for like days. We probably will need anger at some point during that time. But like you want to take ten, go on ahead. You can let me know. I'll make sure we got it covered. I'll get there.
Speaker 2:She'll get there, she will.
Speaker 4:Is there anything else you would like to share with folks? Before we turn it over to Alex and please don't let her come out until I am not looking at you Pretty dissociated already I don't know.
Speaker 2:I didn't see my else have any other questions?
Speaker 1:I don't think so. This has just been so fascinating and I really I'm like rooting for you to get to that tranquility because, if anyone, you deserve it.
Speaker 2:Thank you, I appreciate that.
Speaker 3:We appreciate you talking about the good parts and the bad parts of anger, that it's not just evil. You know it's not evil. It's an emotion that everyone has and we and I love the way you put it like action.
Speaker 2:It makes you act and that's really important and for so long we weren't able to act. And really now that after moving from where we moved from, like we finally have found a place where we are safe, it is okay and like I know that for myself, that like there are days when I go outside and scream, I can act on that anger, like we as a whole system will even get there, whether it's Molly or even some of the other ones that have some of that anger. We're finally in a safe place where we can do that and that makes a big difference also. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I do have one more question, because I know you and the other parts all have relationships with each other, but Molly also has a partner. What's it like to do you have a relationship with her partner? How does that feel?
Speaker 2:Yeah, we, we all have a relationship with her. Some of us are closer to her than than others. I have to bite my tongue because I'm the one that could say things that probably should be said but aren't said. But it's not always my place to say things. It's taken a. It's taken a while for us to have respect, for Molly, to be able to have her relationship, her time, when it doesn't matter what we think, phil, we don't get to say it out loud, that's all.
Speaker 1:It's like, when any of our friends are in a relationship, that it might even be a wonderful relationship, but sometimes the partner does something where our friend does something and we're like, oh, I want to bite in but I can't.
Speaker 2:Yes, um, yes. That's why sometimes it gets really noisy in her head, because some of us are saying shit Like you should say this, you should do this, but you know, doesn't mean that she's going to agree or willingly to do it.
Speaker 4:All right, friend, it was so lovely to see you. I'm going to go grab some iced coffee while Alex comes out. Can you give her a heads up that I will not be on the screen but am here and will be right there? That's cool.
Speaker 2:Cool, you got me back, hi, claire.
Speaker 1:Hi guys.
Speaker 2:It was nice to meet you.
Speaker 4:Alex, hi, hi, kate will be right here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, she's here. She doesn't do well when we come around Like she's like yeah we don't want to have a bad day.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's a very considerate of you. Tell us a little bit about yourself.
Speaker 2:I'm the risky teenager that you know caused a lot of trouble in the past and like would like to party and do crazy things and yeah, and I don't really do that kind of stuff anymore and like day to day stuff. Like if Molly doesn't want to do it or there's too much going on, then I'll like jump in and do stuff because I like to stay active, I don't like surround, I like to go places and Molly is, you know she's, she doesn't like to go places. So I do a lot of the going places.
Speaker 3:How old are you? 18. 18.
Speaker 1:Do you miss partying? Yeah, okay.
Speaker 2:I had a lot of fun doing all kinds of stuff, but you know that was a big part of your two when I was 18.
Speaker 1:19 and 20 and 21, 20, etc. Etc.
Speaker 3:Tell us about your partying days. What was, what was that? Like Caitlin's making a face, oh, you're not making a face.
Speaker 2:We used to drink a lot, did some drugs. Thank goodness we never really got hooked on anything. But we would go down to Atlanta for the weekend and raise hail and go up to DC and see people and go to concerts and you know stuff like that.
Speaker 4:Did we get permission to do those things?
Speaker 1:Alex is saying no for the record.
Speaker 2:We did, and then that was problematic. I, unlike Slayer, I never got on an airplane and went somewhere.
Speaker 3:Slayer didn't tell us that. Where did he go? Where did he go? I thought it was driving. Oh my gosh, that's a trip.
Speaker 2:I mean, I've gotten in the car several times and would drop the mountains or down to Atlanta or whatever, but just for the weekend or something.
Speaker 1:You sound like a good time. Yeah, why do you think Molly like? Why do you think you got to be the partier and not Molly? Why is that a role that you took?
Speaker 2:Because she didn't know how to. Okay, well, like we went off to college and stuff, like everything before then was very like you were told how to do things and that's what you did and, like you know, you really didn't really think for yourself. You always watched it over your shoulder. And choosing to drink because you wanted to is a different thing too. Instead of being fed some or given something, like when Molly went off to college and stuff, that was a great town oh.
Speaker 3:So it's very strict household. You grow. You all grew up in a very strict.
Speaker 2:Retired military. Both parents worked full time jobs, get a church every Sunday. Didn't go to church on Sunday. You didn't come out of your bedroom all day except for to eat. Had to be involved with an extracurricular activity and a church something in bells choir, one of those stupid things. But then it was also a way to be out of the house, so it was kind of fun to.
Speaker 1:Martin, yeah, do you feel happy?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I feel happy. I think that was part of the thing and that that we had the. I had to work with Molly to start to feel, over the years was happy Because I did so much of the fun stuff she, she didn't, she couldn't function. So as she was able to function and handle stuff, it was even allowing her to finally tell happiness and doing some of the fun stuff.
Speaker 1:And I think that was a really nice role.
Speaker 4:that is To be fair. We've also done some pretty horrific trauma work. So you have not you've not been all fun and games. I think part of the partying is also your flavor, your very fun flavor, albeit of coping with stuff that you weren't ready to feel yet and when we took partying away.
Speaker 2:We were on the surface.
Speaker 4:That's when reality hit.
Speaker 2:Yeah, sorry about that.
Speaker 3:Sorry, not sorry. When did you?
Speaker 2:have to stop partying. Well, we, we stopped partying probably just a few years after Molly started going in and out of psychiatric hospitals and then finally, like the last two Rob, do you think crazy that that did was probably around 2012. Healing started happening and we started communicating with each other and learning, like, what was going on, and when you want something, you know you have to work with somebody else. So we started working together, kind of like a system, and so everybody could have some time because, like, I still want to go do things and I still like to do fun things and just sitting in my room is not fun and Molly's worked on a lot of stuff, so like, and then working with Caitlin and myself on the things that were getting really hard and the memories coming back and all that. Then Caitlin and I started working together.
Speaker 3:So did you also do prolonged exposure with Caitlin, or yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because I would come out and I couldn't function and because remembering things and then like Molly wasn't able to function and like it was just like a mill of a hess there for a while. I don't want to feel like that all the time.
Speaker 4:Interrupt Molly's prolonged exposure to do prolonged exposure with you and then wrap up. Yeah, that was a mess of a time. We were missing some really key pieces of a trauma and very curious as to why we were not habituating, when that had always been like something is wrong, but we don't know what, and so sometimes, like that is not in Molly's consciousness and we have to literally like pull and be like all right team who's got some shit that they're holding on to and letting slip a little bit on purpose and like, yeah, it's really cool. It is really doing prolonged exposure on totally different people and having like different reactions and emotions and beliefs around it, and it's it's really cool. You did such an amazing job of not trying to avoid or shy away from when that had been such a normal part of your coping or like wide open. It's very cool.
Speaker 2:I get tired of it. You get tired of her to gain carrying something. And then everybody says that you don't have, you can put it down and you don't have to carry it any longer. And then you say that how Molly is growing and being stronger. And you start to see that and then you realize, like you can have a voice and you can say something about what, how you hurt, feel or what you think, and nothing's going to happen to you. And that's not. That's not how things used to be. You know, we had to hold so much for so long.
Speaker 4:Express anything, so yeah, and I totally forgotten that was such a big part of the trauma to is people telling you if you ever share this, we're going to find you. You can never tell anyone, nobody will believe you, and so to replicate that internally, where it's like, alex, you have to hold this and you can share it with Molly, because bad things will happen. It was healing in and of itself to be able to say like, oh, I can speak this, I can say what has happened to me and like no horrible thing, immediately smoke you, which is Nobody's gotten us yet.
Speaker 2:Plus, a lot of them are dead.
Speaker 3:So do you know why it sounds like each of you might hold different memories or different emotions, or different. It sounds like different parts of one memory. When you were working on prolonged exposure, you were holding a piece. Do you know why you held on to the pieces you did, or is it just kind of pieces scattered around to the different parts?
Speaker 2:It's kind of scattered. I can speak for myself and tell you why I came and why I hold, because it was a specific event when Molly went off to college and had her first episode of PTSD, her first memory having a flashback and literally just it was crazy for about three or four days and I had been present for other things. But that's when I came forward and kind of started taking over that part. When she was in college and I was taking the trauma from from the most recent things, it wasn't there, it wasn't their job, it wasn't their role to take anything that that knew that it happened or any new memories that were coming up. They held the things that happened when it was little, when things first started. If Molly can't hold it all, how can each one of us hold it all either?
Speaker 4:Some of them map on to age, like some of the littles emerge at the time when Molly was that age like. Some of them correspond to that and kind of a chronological way. And then there are some kind of like floated in there that have specific roles rather than like age specific memories, assumably because at some point it got too hard to hold specific traumas and we needed like a survivor, we needed an executive function or whatever it might be.
Speaker 2:Or somebody just have a day and good time.
Speaker 4:And then we can talk. I've been trying to get Molly out doing fun stuff for the past month and she's very resistant. I think we can tag team that.
Speaker 1:Alex, do you have?
Speaker 2:thoughts about that. She's little by little I mean even like agreeing to do this and this like actually coming and happening, like I think that's something positive is happening, to show her that, like you know, it's okay, there's a way there. There are things, and you know I hound her all the time about going places and doing stuff and every now and then when we do go do something is usually either because it's either like a part of therapy to go do something or because, like I'm just aggravating the piss out of her. I don't have a mission to drive, so, like, if I want to go somewhere within reason, I'm allowed to go. I don't wait on her, so that's good.
Speaker 1:What do you have?
Speaker 2:planned for your next day out? I don't have anything planned yet because the weather is so crazy. So something you're looking forward to, excited for the weather to warm up. I like to kayak warm up just a little bit before we can put the boat in the water. And then we've had to wait. It's been a long couple years because this physical body's had surgeries and stuff, so I've had a long time to be able to do some things.
Speaker 1:What is it like to be 18 but then to be in a certain physical body some of the time.
Speaker 2:Awful.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:It's awful when she had hip surgery and couldn't walk for six months, when all you want to do is walk around and be outside instead of cooped up in a house, because you feel claustrophobic living in a house. Yeah, you have to. That's when the internet really, when we really finally got permission all to open rains, googling stuff, looking at farm places I think that's how Ruby partially created some of the places and gets to pick where she wants to go, travel, reading about it, and we're all avid readers so we all get time to read stuff. That's how you that the body not cooperating with what you want to do.
Speaker 1:Does it feel like your body? Does it feel like Molly's body, that you just sort of take over sometimes?
Speaker 2:Feels like it's my body when I'm here, but like I know it's her Looking in the mirror. I don't look in the mirror. Some of them look in the mirror and see Molly, and some of them look in the mirror and will describe themselves and that's not like pictures of Molly. Okay, I don't look in the mirror.
Speaker 1:Because why.
Speaker 2:It's creepy. Okay, just one of my things. I just got light mirrors.
Speaker 1:Here, I know. So why did you want? So Ruby was saying at least you wanted to come talk because there are just so many misconceptions about this whole DID thing. Is that why you wanted to come to talk to us too?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that, and like I don't know if anybody can really understand it, but like you were just asking, that was a really good question. How do I see myself, or how do I see this body? Each one of us may answer that different, and how can each one of them answer different if they're all in the same body? This is, and another system might answer it completely different. There are not any two people with the idea, exactly, a logic you know, and how their systems work and operate are all very different, and that I think we're lucky that we've gotten to where we are Like the half-co-consciousness with the others and even, amy, where it's not like a constant struggle. Yeah, there's communication and we can work together Makes it easier.
Speaker 4:What does a typical day look like For me or for Molly, for you, oh, I know Molly.
Speaker 2:Well, in the morning, when she's having coffee, we'll have our parts meeting and that's when everybody comes out in the room and we all sit around the table and we talk about like what's going on, what happened the day before, what's going on that day, like if there was.
Speaker 2:Like today there was going to be a dentist appointment. So we were told there was going to be a dentist appointment and it was agreed upon who was going to take care of being at the dentist appointment and what information Molly would get at that moment or what would be later. When it's medical stuff, usually we make sure the little ones are put in their room and they don't come back out, and and then if it's somebody's time for later that day, we decide whose time it is, because every day somebody gets at least 15 minutes at some point in the day scheduled. Do whatever they want to do, whether it's work on something, something fun, whatever. And then after we do that, a lot of times I'm sitting in my room just kind of seeing what's going on. Sometimes I'm reading a book. If Molly is doing something stupid or boring or or nothing, I entertain myself.
Speaker 4:How does time pass like? Does it feel like boring? Does it feel like a long time between part meeting and next part meeting?
Speaker 2:No, each part meeting doesn't feel like a long time. The only thing that feels like a long time is your time to be out doing what you want to do with nobody bothering you, without having to answer to anybody else and not having to explain yourself.
Speaker 3:Seems like all of you like having the freedom and peace to be alone. It sounds like you know that there's a lot of carving out of your own time and, yeah, sense of trench tranquility.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because we would. There isn't much there might, isn't much time alone and there isn't a lot of tranquility on a regular day.
Speaker 1:Along with what Caitlin was just asking about time. So when Molly describes when you all kind of come like take over, she's like there are these big gaps in my memory. It'll be 2 pm and then suddenly it's 8 pm. Do you experience that? Or for you is it just like any other person's sense of time?
Speaker 2:I think there must be gaps, because I don't have a clock in my room. I don't always know what time it is, and when I'm doing something, I'm doing something. Does that make sense? I don't ever feel like I don't know what's going on. You're always conscious you're always aware.
Speaker 3:Do you have parts that you're closer to and some you're not? Or do you have like a best friend, or do you have someone you talk to a lot or work with a lot, or Alec.
Speaker 2:Alec, ruby and I are close. Eli and I are buddies and I tolerate everybody else Don't tell them that and I'll say I'm kind of hard to get along with, but I mean, I'm really not. It's just that for a long time I spent a lot of time taking care of the little ones. Ruby and I spent a lot of time with the little ones, keeping them safe, keeping them quiet, trying to keep them going along, and we spent a lot of time keeping Eli out of trouble.
Speaker 1:So for a party, or you are also incredibly responsible.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no kidding, you had to blow off some steam, exactly and that's part of like even part of what I carried from Molly, because at a young age she had to become very responsible, cooking dinner for the family like the age of none. Whatever you know, all these responsibilities that shouldn't have been her so like you know. That's kind of where part of this comes from.
Speaker 3:Hmm, so interesting that sometimes your role is both sides of the role, like Slayer was saying that he is in charge of the anger but also managing the anger, so it doesn't come out in ways that are not good For you. It's having fun being irresponsible, having a college student really just doing fun things and also taking care of the littles, which is really responsible. So it's like both a sense of responsibility.
Speaker 2:It's a constant juggling act. Juggling isn't the same as it used to be. There is more peace. We all have our own rooms now, the little ones can self-soothe. Ms Slayer is now here and she does a lot of that, and we've had the opportunity to work on the things we need to work on and have time and even work with Molly some.
Speaker 4:If we did sleep training after. Gibby and I did sleep training roughly around the same time and I was like, wait a minute, we can do this with Molly. We did sleep training with Molly. And practicing self-seething and tolerating and finding comfort items. I'm not a developmental psychologist, so I am by the seat of my pants, but it's really cool. A lot thanks to you, alex. Is there anything else that you would like to share with the world?
Speaker 2:No, it's just exciting that somebody actually cares about us.
Speaker 1:We are so excited to meet all of you. It's just incredibly exciting for us and it sounds like you all have such a beautiful system together. Yeah, finally.
Speaker 2:Most days it's taken a lot, but I don't know, we can work together. Most days are fairly calm. We hear what each other has to say and we're able to function and therefore Molly can function and we're not being forced to do anything and we're not being forced to tell that we have to go away. We're not being forced to anything.
Speaker 4:That's wonderful. It's been really nice to get to be on this podcast and share with you guys. It has been a nice reflection, because there's always life stuff or it's like mystery, illness and grieving loss and it's easy to feel like, wow, things are so hard right now and everything is a mess, and to be able to reflect on how much your family is supporting itself, supporting one another, and how different it is when it's just like, oh, we're coping with life stressors. Wow, that's so much easier than surprise, I'm running through the woods and you're never going to find me. Wow, painful, hard and so different than it used to be. You guys all worked really hard.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it is way different than it used to be. It's so much better. That's the people need to know. No matter what it is, there's hope. There's hope. There's hope for something to change, and even if it's just 1% oh, that's who I forgot, sorry, hope. She had she. Have you met her, caitlin? Yes, she doesn't come out a whole lot, she's a little ray of sunshine.
Speaker 4:I interrupted your really touching story of oh sorry. Yes, it's your story of hope for me frequently and I really appreciate that.
Speaker 3:Any last questions Just want to thank you so much for joining us. Alex has been so wonderful hearing your story and everyone else's story. Really appreciate it.
Speaker 1:It really has been so nice meeting you. Thank you so much for coming on.
Speaker 4:Can you bring Molly back, just so she isn't disoriented and returning into the ether without any of us here? Hello.
Speaker 3:Hello, welcome back. You must be tired. How do you feel?
Speaker 2:Headache. Not really that's not what happened, Not as bad as it used to be Well you've got some cool parts, yeah, they were great, everyone crushed it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, they did great.
Speaker 1:I can't believe this shit is possible. I mean I can't believe you've got someone going to Paris and I mean, and I have?
Speaker 2:no, I do not know. That was the one thing that they agreed, and I had to agree that the door would be shut. I would not be present while they spoke. Okay, enough trust and respect, and also with Caitlin being present and talking, like you know. So I, like, have no idea what's been said, talked about or who even ended up talking.
Speaker 1:You heard from Ruby, Alex and Slayer.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you can always listen to it later if you feel like it. But they were, they were. It was wonderful. It's really lovely to hear the different roles and responsibilities they had and the journeys of having that responsibility and role, whatever they did, and then seeing that shift over time. Yeah, it was great.
Speaker 2:I think that's one of the things we've talked about the last several mornings has been them recognizing the changes that have happened, like you know, their roles being such a rock solid like this is it and only this, like how it's permeated and like you know, and that has created peace for all of us.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there was such a sense of evolution from them like, wow, things have changed. There's a lot more harmony, even if you don't, even if we got some snark, but definitely a sense of progress.
Speaker 2:And that was one thing that was really important to everybody about this was like that it's not all doom and gloom. There is possibilities, there are good things, there are positive things. Even you know each part individually how they've grown and the positive things that has happened for them, and then how that benefits me.
Speaker 4:So helpful for treatment. Love talking to those guys. It's gonna be fun, david, thank you so much for having us and for letting us share our story. Well, I thank you for doing this, thank you.
Speaker 3:It means a lot really.
Speaker 1:I really hope this has been a good experience and please let us know if there's any way we can make this as comfortable as possible, If there's anything we need to edit or anything you'd like us to add, like when we market these episodes, because we just want this to be. You know, I know this is part of your healing journey and I want that to be the case.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but also to the fact of like the correct information real life information there is about all these other things you hear about and you're able to read about and see about. Why not this? In addition, you know, like I told Caitlin, I don't feel that special. Why does anybody really want to talk with me and hear my story, like you know? And then I step outside and I look in and I'm like, oh, okay, now I see why, when you live with something that this just seems like normal everyday life, like everybody's life, should be kind of like ours.
Speaker 1:It's just so. I mean, it's just this experience of like learning how much further our brains can go, Like what's really possible with this organ of ours. You know, and I think there's parts of this that just seems so unbelievable, because you don't have the imagination to kind of be like, wow, our brains are capable of so much. It's just I don't know, it's just so fascinating.
Speaker 3:Creating systems that sound very structured and, you know, like, orderly, and yet also created so much space and freedom and room, and everyone talked about, you know, really valuing their time of peace, of that they could do their thing, and so that was just really, you know, interesting to hear the lived experience of that.
Speaker 2:Because at one time it was very chaotic. So to have the peace that we have now is is so fun and I mean like it can happen, it can happen for anybody, and just making that and keeping that.
Speaker 1:Well, I'm so glad you two came on. Yeah, I wish you all the best in your continued treatment journey. It sounds like you guys have done amazing work and have more amazing work to do, and I'm just so I don't know so excited for both of you.
Speaker 2:It's exciting.
Speaker 1:Alrighty. Well, little helpers, thank you so much for coming on this first two-part journey that we have taken with Molly and Caitlin. You're so, so grateful about this episode and I just have to imagine that you all loved it too, so we hope that you will continue to tune in and we will see you next time.
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