A Little Help For Our Friends

Surviving the Holidays: Tips for maintaining sanity through family dysfunction

• Jacqueline Trumbull and Kibby McMahon • Season 5 • Episode 122

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Tis the season to be overwhelmed by family dysfunction! The holidays often unravel unresolved family dynamics and we often have to balance time with loved ones and our own sanity. In this episode, we delve into the emotional triggers that resurface during festive gatherings, like feeling like a child again around older relatives. We highlight the contrast between the idealized holiday narrative and the complex reality, especially when trying to set boundaries or deal with family conflicts.  We share practical strategies for handling the post-New Year's blues and creating new traditions that embrace diversity and change. 

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Speaker 2:

Happy.

Speaker 1:

Holidays, little Helpers. It is about to be Thanksgiving and we're all into Christmas and New Years, and this is such a joyous time for many and also kind of a hard time for others. It is a time of being close to family members who we all love and yet can drive us crazy. It's also the time when we might be with our loved ones who are struggling the most. I know that's true for me, I know that's true for Kibbe as well. So this episode is here to help you stay sane during the holiday season. I also want to say that Cool in Mind is creating a community for little helpers to chat, to share resources, for Kibbe and I to do Q&As, and that can also be a helpful way to stay sane. It's like, can you connect with like-minded others who are going through the same things you are and can kind of provide some social support? Kimmy, do you want to say more about that?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I mean we really, really appreciate hearing from all of you guys. I mean we get messages from our email and through our Instagram accounts talking about your stories and really love hearing all your personal stories, and we keep thinking wouldn't it be awesome if we could actually connect people right? There's so many people with similar struggles and I feel like the one-on-one conversations are amazing. But also, you know, let's make a community where we all interact and share our experiences. So that's why Kool-Aid we're making like an online platform that has the community but also one-on-one coaching with me, with all these different tips that we talk about in the podcast, like setting boundaries or paying attention to your own feelings or grieving that you could then also share with community, and then digital tools where you could just access this. Even if you're, like at Thanksgiving dinner, you could just like pull out your phone and be like what do I do? My, my mom's driving me crazy? Um, and then you get the help right right away. So you could check out our website. Cool of mine.

Speaker 2:

K? U L A M I N? Dcom. Um. But we'll also leave some links in the show notes where you can just go and we'll have a 30 minute free consultation call where you could just vent at me for like 30 minutes about your life and your family and we could talk about how KulaMind can support you best. So amazing.

Speaker 1:

Well, I know that I'm spending Thanksgiving with my in-laws and then Christmas and New Year's with my family. What are you anticipating for your holiday season, Kibbe?

Speaker 2:

I think it's like the anticipation, as you just said. The anticipation to the holidays is like sometimes worse than the actual holiday itself. I am having a lot of people over to my house for Thanksgiving making dinner. We have my in-laws here, my stepmom, I have siblings and then I invited my mom, but that is a fraught relationship right now. So I'm anticipating a fun day, but more like guilt, anger, shame, sadness, grief, all of the emotions around it.

Speaker 1:

So it's great it's holidays right Guilt, anger and shame as your Christmas presents.

Speaker 2:

Your birthday is snuck in there too, oh yeah, yeah, I'm a Christmas baby December 22nd so it's like a couple of days where everyone flies to somewhere else on my birthday. So I'm like yeah, yeah, because everyone gets like the travel deals on the 22nd. So I say goodbye to all the people that I love and then I'm left alone with whatever Christmas blockbuster movie is out, you know. So I watch like a Marvel movie with like the one or two people around here, you know, and then cry. I'm just kidding.

Speaker 1:

I hear that it is kind of accurate. I feel like the 22nd is also the day that I would most likely travel to christmas.

Speaker 2:

What are you traveling?

Speaker 1:

I'm going well. I only have thanksgiving day off. I had to take friday off, but I'm going to to North Carolina to hang with my in-laws, jason's family, while the rest of my family goes to Mexico at this resort that we've had a time share out forever. So everyone else is going to spend Thanksgiving in Mexico and I will be in North Carolina, but it's fine.

Speaker 2:

Great, I mean, that sounds nice. What kind of of, what kind of things do you navigate? What kind of dynamics do you navigate during the holidays?

Speaker 1:

I mean with my in-laws, it's going to be fine. Um, you know there'll be some. I think last time I broke down crying, actually, yeah, because I have spent. I haven't spent Thanksgiving with my parents in three years, probably because they were all in Mexico three years in a row or something. I don't even remember. But I think I got upset because I'm in a relationship with somebody who has a kid and so it's really hard to get him to spend holidays with my family family, because that means taking his kid away from, like, his family.

Speaker 1:

And I just had this projection of like are we ever going to be able to spend holidays with my family? Are we always going to be split up? So I cried about that, but this, yeah. So this year I'm with him for Thanksgiving, I'm with my parents, my family, for Christmas, then Jason will come for New Year's. That's what we've done.

Speaker 1:

My holidays with my family are interesting. I mean, I'm close with my family. I super love my family. I wouldn't say the dynamic is super easy. I always look forward to the holidays and then, once I'm there, I always have this like crazy physical anxiety and I just I'm. I'm like always going to my happy place, which is just like breathing and shutting down my emotions and flipping through a cookbook. Just shut down.

Speaker 1:

All the like frenetic, anxious energy from my mother and from my parents bickering, um, you know my niece and nephew like screaming and waking me up at six in the morning. Uh, the biggest thing is probably that you know my sister's an alcoholic and every time the family's together, it's traditionally been a big trigger for her. A variety of reasons that have to do with her. Um, and we just like constantly have to be on guard for that. Do we drink? Don't we drink? Why is she in the basement. So long, you know, is she acting a little bit strange. Is that alcohol? Or is that just she's, you know, hyped up on the holidays or just you know she's kind of manic energy in general, so a lot of that you know she does drink. Then it's very much like she's probably gonna say something shitty to me. Um like what?

Speaker 1:

There was one holiday where nikki wanted to bring her ex-boyfriend and he in my mind had been behaving emotionally abusively and also his energy reminded me of my ex and brought back just a lot of like triggery kind of feelings. And you know my family was not ready to welcome him back with open arms and so we put a moratorium on him coming on Christmas day. We're like he can come the next day and anyways, nikki, just I could hear her talking on the phone with my mom and she was saying kind of shitty things about Jason, not anything about him personally, but just like why is Jason allowed to come? And dah, dah, dah, dah. He's not like part of the family yet, that kind of thing. And then I heard her say something like you know what, fine, I'll just drop off my christmas presents at the door. I know that's the only thing jacklyn cares about anyway.

Speaker 2:

I was like come on, thank you. That's great.

Speaker 1:

That'd be much easier I mean I do love presents, but can we move on from this version of me as like an entitled, selfish 10 year old who just wants the goodies? I mean, it was just, you know, she'll just say things that she that indicate that she has certain beliefs about me or that she knows will get under my skin. And we, just when she said that, I just like took the phone, put her on speakerphone and just started like screaming at her. And it was funny because I was actually screaming nice things and I'm like this is because I love you, nikki, I don't want to see you. When somebody doesn't treat you well, what do you get? It was just like crazy and that actually didn't calm her down. Uh, but yeah, I mean it'll just be like little digs and just people comment on my life choices who are more mature and older than me and wiser, um, and kind of take me back to feeling like a child, um, so I don't know that stuff is that, stuff is there.

Speaker 2:

I think I do remember when you had that holiday you were texting me and it just is so emblematic of all the things that could be stressful about the holidays. It's like we regress. You know we're forced to be not forced, but we, you know, come together with family members that we spend all of our time individuating from, like building life outside of, and then when we come together, I feel like all my teenager self comes out and we are who we like, our worst selves, you know, like my 13 year old self around my mom when you get together, but then it's like for such an intense period of time that it's such high expectation for going well, right, like. This is what I hate about.

Speaker 1:

like Valentine's Day or Father's Day or all those Hallmark holidays where you're just inundated with ads that are like it's time to enjoy, and then everyone's like opening presents or eating food and enjoying each other, and then it's just like we regress in a situation where it's supposed to be nice and picture perfect and then you have all of our coping mechanisms right, like either having your friends or family or you know friends are like coping mechanisms that's supposed to keep you sane, but if your family doesn't want, like your support, buddy, that you know it's just like it's so much in such a short period of time yeah yeah, I think another thing that was always unique to my holiday experience was being the youngest by such a large margin where, you know, when I was still like an early teenager, my siblings were like my sister was in residency, she often couldn't come for Christmas, like my brothers would bring home a girl or she'd bring home a guy and I'd have to watch the Christmas change and not have the same traditions and still be like really wanting that and um, now I'm totally used to it and it's fine, but I've definitely had to let go of like what Christmas is supposed to look like and sort of not have they just not be disappointed when certain traditions don't happen, not be upset if Christmas doesn't even happen on Christmas day, because all of my siblings are managing Christmases with their spouses and and I think that can also be harder for I mean, another part of this was like then when I got older, feeling very lonely because I didn't have a partner and all of my siblings were partnered up and I'd be, you know, the one like doing the dishes well, because everybody else was like a guest or with their guest.

Speaker 1:

And now it's a different dynamic. But I think what my sister's going through is she's the oldest and she's divorced and lost custody of her kids and so she has to like look at all she's lost every time we're together and I think that's why it's super triggering for her over the holidays. And so, yeah, I think that those of us who have gone through like divorces or are single over the holidays and the rest of our family is partnered or happy or has kids, and if you're going through like fertility struggles, you know it's really painful to probably be around your nieces and nephews.

Speaker 1:

There's just a lot that can come up for people.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, there's a lot of grief and what you have missing in that picture perfect life. Like I know that it's like an anniversary, it's around. My dad's birthday was December 29th and so like that, and you know, everyone having their family around is like there's always like this undercurrent of grief and there's no room for that. There's no like you know, no one on Christmas wants to hear like, oh, I wish my dead dad were here. You know, like it's just, it's not a time for, it's a time for, like shoveling everything down, being with the people who bring up all of your demons and then pretending, you don't have any demons.

Speaker 2:

People who bring up all of your demons and then pretending you don't have any demons and you don't have any of the coping mechanisms that you spent an entire adulthood like building away from them.

Speaker 1:

So it's just like perfect storm yeah, I it's. Wow, you have some.

Speaker 2:

You have a complicated december yeah, I guess I do where dates lie.

Speaker 1:

So what is, what is your plan for your mom this Christmas?

Speaker 2:

I'm just having a hard time with, like her mom passed away recently and her mom was like the focal point of her pain, kind of like this distant, emotionally absent, self-absorbed mom who didn't pay attention to her in the way that she needed and that really haunted her throughout all of throughout her marriage, throughout parenting me and now with my son, and for like cancer recovery and different reasons I was, I tried to ask for, I mean, what came across as like a boundary or a limit to be like, can you play with Jackson here at my house instead of at your house? And I just kind of like requested for some changes in what she wanted. And in that conversation she interpreted some of what I said as like attacking her and she got really upset and I tried to clarify what I meant by that. I clarified that I'm not attacking her. She, you know, misinterpreted what I was saying and ever since then, I mean it's just been a nightmare Like like she keeps asking to, you know, take him to do other things.

Speaker 2:

I keep saying no and I did the thing that I told patients to do. I you know all the good things where I'm like I asked for what I need and then, like try to reinforce it. I'm like we love you so much. I you know, like it would be great. I really value your relationship with my son. Why don't you have a special day once a week here at my house? You could do whatever you want here. It'll be your special day. It'll be amazing, whatever. No, nothing works, just nothing works. It's just. I think what is most upsetting is that she leans in with like deep insults, like character attack with me.

Speaker 2:

She does oh my god, man, it's just like. It's not just I'm pissed off that you won't let me do what I want to do with my grandson. It's now I know who you really are. Now I know what kind of person you are. How could you banish me like this? How could you be so heartless? Everyone is turning you against me, alex is turning you against me, and we've had to have several emails and text messages where we're like no, we love you. No one's against you. We're just asking if you could.

Speaker 2:

No, it's just even just like that little rejection, that little boundary is like this character. We don't love her, we're kicking her out of our lives. And it's just so frustrating because it's interesting, I'm watching Alex have the same impulse that I've always had, but I've always learned to just like suppress, which is, if I show her the evidence, if I like screenshot what I said, show her the million times we said I love you, please come over with. Then she'll be like oh gosh, you're right, I'm just this. These holidays are just really hard for me. I'm just, I feel really sad. I just want to connect or whatever, and then we'll all hug and be like it's okay, I love you. You know that fantasy of using reason and logic is still there and it just, it's just a fantasy and it's just like so validating to watch someone else have that same impulse and I'm just like, oh man, that's, that's what I have inside all the time.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, well, that would. That would maybe normally work with other people to show evidence.

Speaker 2:

It would. What drives me crazy, and drove me like literally crazy in so many parts of my life, is her perception of the situation cut out. All the things that she does to me, like all of the insults, all the things that she says, all the ways that she's hurt me, are literally like gone in her mind. It's really weird. Like I could show her screenshots of her own I could. I used to show her like voicemails that she used to leave, like telling me I'm like a horrible child. How could she give birth to me? She hates me, she never wants to see me again and and I'll like play it for her and she'll be like no well you made me say that and it just is like it doesn't register as part of the interaction.

Speaker 2:

Therefore, in her mind, I'm just doing all the cutting out, boundary, setting away and she only just like loves yes, I don't know like even just talking about it, I bet, I bet.

Speaker 1:

Well, it's an interesting entitlement to just be able to emote at somebody and, just like, express your emotions however you want at them, and then they are supposed to accept and not push you away.

Speaker 2:

You know that, like your actions have no consequences, I think it's clicking in a new way now because I'm watching my two-year-old do it and it makes so much sense because he just doesn't. He's just a ball of emotion, doesn't get agency or that, he's another person. So he'll like, he'll tantrum and do this and and then we'll have to take off like wipe his face, we'll have to do something to manage the tantrum, and then he's like tantruming about that. I'm like, dude, you're not getting TV because you're tantruming, like do you not see the consequences of your actions? But it's, yeah, it's just like a lonely, lonely feeling because like, like, I have to hold both sides. I have to be like, sure, I said something that hurt your feelings and then you screamed at me forever and I have to hold both of that and you just hold one of it.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that brings up another kind of thing that I think can be difficult during the holidays, which is that if you go to in-laws house and you have your little kid, the your in-laws may parent your kids in certain way.

Speaker 1:

They my sister-in-law and my mom got into this tiff because my mother, like she set a boundary with my niece that was reasonable and he said my niece had agreed to it. And then, as kids do, that was reasonable and he said my niece had agreed to it. And then, as kids too, my niece broke the boundary. We were basically supposed to have an adult. We were, we had a bunch of kid time and then we were supposed to have some adult time and my niece, like wanted that to still be kid time, right. And so my mom was, like she said kind of firmly, said no, this is adult time.

Speaker 1:

And so my niece, like went and cried and my mom like let her cry and my sister-in-law couldn't handle that, and so they got into like a little bit of a tiff, um, and it's interesting because if you're at somebody else's house, like grandparents have to have some sort of authority, especially if you're in the grandparents house, and it's also hard to like not be the only parent to your kids. I mean, besides you and your, you know your husband, um, who you can scream at if you want to, and you can be more kind of authentically, like pissy, than like with your, with your in-laws.

Speaker 2:

So how did that resolve? Like, how do you guys resolve that?

Speaker 1:

uh, I think with a brief cold war Great.

Speaker 2:

Cool, yeah, it seems like the tip is stuff down your emotions. Yes, distract yourself, get through and then hide the way you're feeling from your loved ones for all the time. I think that's.

Speaker 1:

It's interesting because every time I go home that is what I'll do, kind of with my siblings, I think, and then my mom. Our holidays are booze fests first of all. So I'll be on like my 18th drink or something that's an exaggeration sort of, but like with my parents downstairs in the living room after everyone has gone and just like debriefing about everything. And there'll often be tears, usually my mother's um, not because I'm being mean to her, but because we're talking about just like family dynamics and where things go wrong. And we'll have these debriefs often about my sister, like every single night for the holiday season where I'm just like ruminating at her, um, but yeah, I just it does feel hard not to just suppress the whole time, because you know it's time limited and so it's like okay, if I can just like breathe and just push this down and keep going, then we don't have to do this again until Thanksgiving.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I mean, I think, I think that this might be one of those circumstances where all the things that we talk about are bad, like distraction, suppression, hiding your feelings, not communicating. This might be a time where, like it's actually effective because it's short term, right, that's like, ideally, thanksgiving, you know Christmas like these are all. Like certain days you go travel. That's also horrible and expensive and stressful. You're staying somewhere else, kid, you know, kids just make that even worse and then you just have to get through. Right, you just get through, don't like, don't make the situation worse, distress tolerance skills all the way. And then when you come back home, then you could like lean into, go to therapy, get cool mind, lean into your feelings and then, yeah, I mean, at least I'm tempted to use the holidays as the time to talk about all the things and why we're like this and whatever. But that might not be the time because there's no, you can't follow up after that, you can't actually implement that on a daily basis if you're not seeing these people. So, just eggnog, apple pie, booze, like, whatever you know, alcohol use around the holidays does go up.

Speaker 2:

We were looking at what, what the research says about what happens around the holidays in terms of mental health and I I don't know if you're seeing this now, but as therapists we see everyone's dressed out now. Therapy is just just feels a lot heavier. People are like suddenly old ghosts are emerging and there was this systematic review that we found in Frontiers of Psychiatry. We're wondering if Christmas or the holidays leads to like more hospitalizations and suicide and emergencies. But actually not Around Christmas and New Year's is actually the lowest, surprisingly, probably because they're around people and then actually there's a bounce back where in January, that's when there's an increase in suicides and hospitalizations, so it's when people go home and then sit with all their lonely feelings.

Speaker 2:

Right right, that's the problem.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I mean I would think the holidays would be hard for people who don't have family, but that might be a relatively smaller portion of the population that's not getting picked up by these, these data.

Speaker 1:

It's interesting because we're saying like okay, when is it appropriate to suppress over the holidays and when is it not? And I think the real question is, when is it effective to introduce conflict, to have conflict with family members, versus just getting through it? I don't know that we need to be suppressing our emotions the whole time. I would probably suggest carving out some breaks where you can be with yourself, decompress a little bit. Where you can be with yourself, decompress a little bit, you know, just talk to other friends. If you need to get kind of a sanity check by by, I think connecting with other friends during this time can be helpful, because if you are regressing while you're at home, you can become, you can inhabit your adult body again once you interact with people who you are an adult around.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so that's possible, um, but yeah it it's interesting that january comes and suddenly I I don't know what it is. I mean it could be as simple as now. I have this long stretch of months with like no holidays and that means I have to just work and it's cold and seasonal depression hits. Yeah, or if it's actually related to the holiday and what's stirred up then, mm, hmm.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I mean, I bet that's a perfect storm, right it's. You go see all your family sit with all the people who created your, all your negative core beliefs and inner critic, and then you don't have money and then it's the darkest time of year and it's cold and you're alone and there's I hate, I hate the like post New Year's Eve time, because that stretch from, at least in New York, january to like March. It's just you're done with the cozy winter stuff, like there's no more hot chocolate. There's just like sad slushing through gray snow in the dark, going to work. No one wants to go out. I think there's like there's no like holiday or social gathering that brings people together. Everyone just wants to stay in their house and mope and yeah, so it's just like the most bummer time. And for people who've had like mental health issues, going to see their family or being reminded they don't have family and then left with all that it's just I would think that's the perfect storm. I would think that's like the hardest time.

Speaker 1:

I agree. I usually try to plan a trip in January or February to have something to look forward to.

Speaker 2:

That's so smart.

Speaker 1:

M in January or February to have something to look forward to, that's so smart. Maintain the momentum Summer tropical that's so smart, actually, I might just do that.

Speaker 2:

I might actually just like take that tip and just do that. Thank you, Dr Jackman. Yeah, you're welcome.

Speaker 1:

It's kind of a privileged tip, though I don't know if everybody has the money to just yeah, yeah spend more money.

Speaker 2:

It's supposed to do more travel and don't work. Got it.

Speaker 1:

Got it. Do you want to?

Speaker 2:

go on a trip. Actually, Do you want to do that? Do you want to do like a girls?

Speaker 1:

weekend somewhere, very possible. Yeah, depending on PTO. I mean, I could do a short thing. I don't think Jason's going to take me to Belize, or let me take him to Belize, jason take me to Belize.

Speaker 2:

Little helpers encourage Jason to bring Jacqueline to Belize. That's like a thing that she wants in her relationship. So let's all support Jacqueline. Thank you.

Speaker 1:

His Instagram handle is at mammothhammer. If you write to him there and tell him you're looking for a real estate photographer and when he responds, say take Jacqueline to Belize and we can have a whole.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, give him hope that he has a job and then confront him with this relationship.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, take it away. It's a really hard season right now too, so he'll definitely respond. No, please, actually, what is?

Speaker 2:

what is it like? You know, the blended families thing is interesting, especially because, like, you're dating someone with a child. What is it like to have to split your holidays and then do a holiday with, like, a family that you're getting to know and like you're integrating with?

Speaker 1:

yeah, I mean the first time we did it was actually really fun. Um, I hate to say it, but probably because everybody got drunk and it was my first time like really meeting them and we just, I don't know, everyone was like goofy and fun. Jason, I made out hardcore on the couch in front of everybody and his mother had to talk to him about that and how inappropriate it was. So that's quite a first impression. It's so funny. I'm so gross with PDA, so gross.

Speaker 1:

Anyways, the second holiday was dry because one of the members of his family was struggling with alcoholism and that was a little bit more awkward.

Speaker 1:

I mean, I was just sort of sitting quietly a lot of the time. Oh yeah, I cried also because Jason, jason and I, the thing, we fight about two things and two things only. We talk, we fight about how we're not going to Belize and decorating, and we had gotten into some very small tiff where Jason indicated that he would not let me incorporate any of my furniture into the home when we moved in together, which actually is the case and he said I mean, it's just a completely absurd position, you know, and he and he knows that. But he said it and I was just like, ok, I can't just fight with him right now, like we're at Thanksgiving, so I just get really stony silent, fight with him right now, like we're at thanksgiving, so I just get really stony, silent. And then he did the right thing and came to me later and was like I'm sorry, that was. You know, I, I can't just have my way all the time.

Speaker 2:

Or something like that. How do you explain that he couldn't have just said hey, you can't put any of the furniture in our house I was talking about moving my stuff in and he was like oh no, no, we don't need to change anything.

Speaker 1:

It was, it was some comment that indicated that he didn't think it was true that I was helping to decorate our home. He's like but it looks so nice as it is. I see, I don't know exactly what it was, but because he's so nice when he says things that you, so imagine being like you know yeah, gross furniture.

Speaker 2:

I'm sure it was like.

Speaker 1:

I love you. Sometimes he'll say something that's so absurd and I'm like, why can't you see that it's completely absurd? And then I'll try logicking with him and he's just like nope. So anyways, that's just life with a stubborn person. But, um okay, tips, tips, tips, tips suppression.

Speaker 2:

We've got that one, yeah drinking uh go on a travel vacation in january yeah, yeah, definitely. It seems like using cope ahead, knowing that january is the hardest month for mental health, and plan some sort of social gathering. For example, with our friend Ned, we are watching Aliens and the Predator series, and then they merge to Alien versus Predators. So we have to watch all the movies in sequence, so that will carry us through some of the winter, and so you do that.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I mean the ones that are feasible and like you know, yeah, I think the principle and I was on the same wavelength is like holidays don't have to end at New Year's Eve. You know you can create some sort of friend's holiday or some tradition, anything to keep the momentum going during those dark winter months. And honestly, like I do love Valentine's day. I think partly for this reason it does give me something to look forward to, something to plan for, and I I really go all in with it and I think that's helpful. But I think coping ahead is a good strategy, checking in on each other during that month, knowing that it is the hardest month for mental health, you know, being more proactive, like I think one of the reasons seasonal depression is a thing is because people do stay in and do nothing for three or four months.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, all the gyms and the fitness companies out there have crazy deals in January, because I know that's the time and like take advantage of them, because at least it gives you something to the the news resolution. As silly as it is sometimes, like use that as a boost and go go exercise. That's like the number one thing for mental health yeah, go exercise.

Speaker 1:

Let's keep doing fun stuff. I would. I think one thing that could be helpful is, for Christmas, maybe getting people. I mean, this is maybe something to get like a partner or like somebody you're willing to spend a lot of money on, or getting yourself some kind of membership like a pottery class like pottery classes or something that's going to force you out of the house every week for a while.

Speaker 1:

It's like art classes or gym classes or you know, just like something, something to get you out to look forward to and, I think, coping ahead for the holiday with, like, okay, you know, is this, what are your values telling you? Is this a time you want to have conflict with family who have political disagreements or some kind of disagreements? Like, is it worth it? Are you avoiding conflict just because you avoid conflict or because it's maybe not super necessary to to handle shit at that time, knowing that also, holidays are a group effort and sometimes having conflict with another member of the family can be a real downer for everybody else, and so managing that, I don't know.

Speaker 2:

it feels weird to be like people please and suppress, but it's only a few days, yeah, I mean, I I talked to one of my friends who was struggling with, like you know, we're going down with our whole family, with, like, our kids, and it will make our parents really happy if we stay with them and that will kind of reduce some conflict. But at the same time, we're going to go nuts. You know, living there, and so I was really pushing on. You know, just get an Airbnb, just get a hotel if you could afford it, or stay with a friend.

Speaker 2:

There might be these small ways that can be like taking the hit for the long-term gain, right. Like, maybe take some time to yourself or make sure that you have a little bit of space, that you can go and have your own space. You could do your own thing. You could do your own thing. You would have an activity or something to do. You know, a dinner with a friend If you're going home for the holidays, something that gives you that, that release valve, so that, yeah, sure, your parents might be kind of upset about that, but at the same time that will prevent a huge blowout. And you kind of you know reaching your limit, then take a huge blowout. And you kind of you know reaching your limit, then take those little like self-care tips.

Speaker 1:

you know, yeah, my parents are good in like allowing us, allowing us to have date nights with our partners during that time too. Where it's like, okay, I just need to reconnect with my safe person and not be around the entire family right now. It sounds like such a bummer, though I mean, there are things to love about the holidays too, and maybe like leaning into that is also helpful, instead of just trying to get away from the difficulties. Sure, yeah.

Speaker 2:

This is still kind of more of the negative side, but I guess one thing you can lean into is that if you are bummed out in January, I think that sometimes it's nice for me to look at how much, how far I've come from what I used to be interacting with my family and I could see all the things that come up in me, like the anger, the impulsivity, the need to fight, the need to be right.

Speaker 2:

And then I look at now and I look at all the anger and the impulsivity no need to fight, the need to be right and then I look at now and I look at all the anger and the impulsivity. No, I'm kidding, I've come a long way. I've found a partner that I love, made a family that I'm really happy. I've grown up a lot, and sometimes the regression's kind of nice because in the moment it's horrible, but then you could remind yourself, wow, I'm. I'm a different person than I used to be around these people and I'm going to have three days where I'm like my worst teenage self but actually I can go back to my home and just be grateful that I've. You know, I've grown since then and if you haven't, then like maybe that could give you a tip of what you need to change.

Speaker 1:

I agree, I think, and also remembering how many like lonely holidays I had, you know, I would always back then try to remind myself someday I'm going to be partnered forever and I will never get to be alone again, and so it doesn't have to be a bad thing to be lonely in the holidays.

Speaker 1:

I mean, I know it's hard and I know when you are lonely it's it's hard to believe that you'll ever not be lonely. Um, I think getting like leaning really into the holiday can be kind of helpful. I mean, once over Thanksgiving we had my brother has a potato chip company and we had this stupid idea because we were drinking of making a home video of like a wedding of a commercial for the chip company basically, and I wound up like running through pluff mud in the marsh and wearing like trash bags and tool or something as a fake wedding dress and it was really fun and it really took away the anxiety of the day because everybody had a project, everybody was leaning into the spontaneity of it, um, and it was just something different to do I think I'm gonna link that video to the show notes as a resource and then not explain what that is you have to listen to this like no, because that was such a funny video.

Speaker 2:

I remember seeing you'd be like what is happening. How is this about potato?

Speaker 1:

chips. I was brave enough to post that at the height of my bachelor fame too, so, but yeah, it was such a, it was such a great memory, you know. I mean my sister and I weren't fighting because she was making me a wedding dress instead, like it was. It was such a, it was such a great memory, you know. I mean my sister and I weren't fighting because she was making me a wedding dress instead, Like it was. It was just about she was pouring me drinks instead of drinking them herself. She was like you're gonna have fun with this. Doing a unique Thanksgiving. Like I think Thanksgiving can be kind of drab because you're cooking the same thing every time, but one year we did an Asian Thanksgiving where it was just like you know Asian influences and all of the you know appetizers and the turkey, and just shaking it up, doing something new, creating new, like keeping traditions, but also maybe developing some new ideas.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I like that, yeah, I'm looking forward to Thanksgiving because it's like I go full like pajama. You know, just like eating, like eating a ton of food, inviting whoever's around, and then just like watching movies, like you know so much preparation, and then you eat it for like 10 minutes and then couch time, so it's. It's fun in its own way, like I love, just like falling asleep on the couch, that's.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

And I would say you know, if your traditions are make you happy reliably, then amazing. One thing that kind of upset me as I was growing up is that the traditions would change and you know, we used to have like a gingerbread. There was a graham cracker building contest, um, grandkid house building contest, girls versus boys. And those things fade in some years, especially when kids come into the picture.

Speaker 1:

Like it's not going to happen in the same way and the holidays might start to be about your nieces and nephews or your kids and having some flexibility around the idea that, like it's sometimes doing a tradition half-assed is more depressing than just skipping it. And so it's kind of like, okay, do we does this Christmas have to look exactly like previous Christmases or can it be its own and like can we find ways to make this appropriate for who we have here? And you know, I don't know I've, I know I've had to just get really flexible around what the holidays looked like. I used to be so nostalgic for Christmas and I wanted it to be like little women every year and wasn't. But you know, and I'd like hold on to what they were like when I was a kid. But I was a kid back then that's why they were magical, and so I guess releasing some expectations for the holidays looking a particular way can be helpful.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and I guess releasing some expectations for the holidays, looking a particular way, can be helpful. Yeah, and even, just like I like what you're saying, creating new traditions and creating new traditions for the young people too. Like now, you're making me think, like, what kind of family tradition do I want Jackson to grow up with? Like, what do I want him to associate? And we could create whatever we want you know, so we can play a game or do something cool.

Speaker 2:

And I'm trying to, we're trying to figure out how to familiarize him with both, like his christian background, but also his jewish background. Like you know, we could do like a series of presents for hanukkah and then, you know, christmas. So, yeah, there's a lot of like tradition building that could happen. And now, actually, you're making me think that we should incorporate this into the cool mind community where we I'm just thinking about how I want to hear all the little helpers and what they're doing for their traditions, that they're looking forward to, but also building in some group support during the hard times, either just to vent about the family, the, the holidays, or to do like some kind of group event around january, just so it's something that you do from your home but still feel connected, even when it's like so gross outside.

Speaker 1:

Well, little helpers, I hope you have happy holidays instead of lonely or stressful holidays. I'm guessing it's a little bit of a combo, but we will be here for you again in two weeks. One thing that I think would be actually a tip for everybody is to start the new tradition of giving us five star ratings on apple podcast and spotify whenever you can. It's kind of like christmas caring you know, and paying it forward. Yeah, paying it forward.

Speaker 1:

Gift give it right giving us a gift, giving it, as my said, all I care about are the presents.

Speaker 1:

So we'll be looking forward to those gifts from you and we'll see you in two weeks. By accessing this podcast, I acknowledge that the hosts of this podcast make no warranty, guarantee or representation as to the accuracy or sufficiency of the information featured in this podcast. The information, opinions and recommendations presented in this podcast are for general information only and any reliance on the information provided in this podcast is done at your own risk. This podcast and any and all content or services available on or through this podcast are provided for general, non-commercial informational purposes only and do not constitute the practice of medical or any other professional judgment, advice, diagnosis or treatment, and should not be considered or used as a substitute for the independent professional judgment, advice, diagnosis or treatment of a duly licensed and qualified healthcare provider. In case of a medical emergency, you should immediately call 911. The hosts do not endorse, approve, recommend or certify any information, product, process, service or organization presented or mentioned in this podcast, and information from this podcast should not be referenced in any way to imply such approval or endorsement.