Social Energy Strategies

This week on the podcast,  I shared a conversation I had with Ellen Mailhot on what social energy is, insights on how to understand energy and some tools that help us  manage our own social energy.

Here are 3 key takeaways for managing your social energy:

• Recognize Your Unique Social Battery: Social energy is different from physical, mental, or emotional energy. Start to notice what drains or recharges your “social battery”—it could be the size of the crowd, the noise level, or even how comfortable your clothes are.
• Use Mid-Event Tools—Don’t Just White-Knuckle It: Instead of toughing it out and recovering later, proactively use tools during events. Breathing exercises, stepping outside for a quick break, or even sensory grounding (like the “5-4-3-2-1” technique) can help you refuel in real time.
• Give Yourself Permission to Set Boundaries: It’s okay to say “no” to events when your energy budget is low, or even leave early—no explanation required. Prioritizing your needs actually allows you to be more present with others in the moment, and reduces your need for recovery afterwards. 

Links 

• Join Kelly's Group Coaching Program

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Transcript

0:02

Welcome to the Live A Vibrant Life podcast. Today I'm here with Ellen Mailhot, and we are celebrating 150 podcast episodes. Ellen, thank you for being here. Thank you for inviting me and congratulations. That is amazing. That's a lot of podcasts. Congratulations. I love it. Well, as you know, couldn't have done it without you, and today we're going to talk about a topic that you discovered way back when we first started working together. I was highly influenced by a person named Kerry Newh, who talked about energy. And just find it as one thing. And you and a mutual friend of ours went for a walk and said, Hmm, that doesn't feel quite right. And along the way, one of the things that you notice the nuance of is something called social energy and how it impacts our life, especially for introverts or really anybody who starts to feel overwhelmed during gatherings and sometimes feels exhausted afterwards. I consider myself an extrovert, but there are definitely events I go to. Where I am so drained from the social energy that I gave out. Have you ever felt drained by social events? Yeah, absolutely. I've found that usually if it's more than two or three people for me. Crowded, noisy, long events, the food situation impacts my social energy. There's just so many reasons other than whether or not you're an introvert or an extrovert, and those are some of the main ones. But I've, as I've discovered it and started really paying attention, I realized there's a lot of things that impact me, and I think that's true for a lot of other people, and that's why we want to talk about it. And you would say that social energy is different from mental energy, physical emotional energy. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Social energy for me, I mean, you can look it up. There's all different definitions. Basically it's like a social battery, the energy that you have available for socializing. And there's different factors that can charge or drain that battery that make it so nuanced for each person, including the other types of energy. And so separating, for me, separating and understanding how these different types of energy. In general impact me, but also how they affect my social energy has been like really like life changing for me in figuring out, well, what are the tools I need to manage all this? Like how can I use this information to help myself practically? And I have a couple examples. For me, if I'm mentally or emotionally tired before a social event, the socializing part is almost impossible for me. Mm-hmm. So intervening in the middle with either tools or time, something to kind of address the mental emotional tiredness. Which for me, examples are a simple walk or, or just time to journal. The emotions can kind of actually prevent that huge drain on the social energy. Other people, it's the opposite. They're mentally tired. They might want to be around people to charge them. And knowing that about yourself is what's so helpful. So another example for me is if the event itself. Also has mental or physical or emotional demands in it that will impact me as well, which is a really nuanced difference. Right? It's, and, and understanding that about yourself is, is super helpful. So it's so much more complicated and nuanced than, than simply like, do you like being around people? It's, it's a lot less, a lot more than that. Well, this holiday season we have a series called Holiday Harmony, where we really try to help people understand that when you choose to be around your people who think and feel and do life differently, sometimes those experiences can be energizing and sometimes they can be draining and there's often nuance. I even think of you and I working together. Many times if I'm tired and get to come and work with you, by the end I feel energized. And because of the energy that I present with, by the end, you often feel tired. So even if you really enjoy somebody, even if you enjoy the experience, knowing that there is something called social energy and that you may be drained by certain experiences, noticing that first is key. And then deciding to have what you call a tool. So you've mentioned that a couple times. I think without tools, we end up. Overcompensating on the end, I would go and get diet Coke or ice cream or something to kind of like physically move me forward. Mm-hmm. Is that pretty common? People use eating and shopping and different things to reenergize if they don't have tools? Yeah, there's, there's a ton of unhelpful, even dangerous escapist coping mechanisms that we, I think a lot of us use as a knee jerk kind of unconscious response when we're. Socially emotionally drained. They're un it's uncomfortable feeling, so we just want to not feel it anymore. It's actually not recovery, and it can do more harm than good. It's really more of an avoidance or repression response that doesn't truly address what you need to attend to. It's kind of like saying, well, I have a headache, so I'm going to go take an antacid. Right? It seems so silly, but. That's who would do that. But that's how we behave. And that's what I did for most of my life. And I spent many, many years using food as an escape kind of attempt at recovering, not even really realizing it. And so I'm saying this from firsthand experience. I'm not pointing fingers, this is me, right? What I've experienced. And so discovering this, that this behavior was related to actually just simply being drained socially. Kind of was so eye-opening because it made it simple. It helped me figure out better ways of coping, including preparing ahead of time. So it's actually not so draining in the first place, which we're going to, I know. Talk about in a little bit. Well, and I think it's so pivotal for us to talk about this now because so many people are about to go to these. Work parties, parties with family parties at their home that they don't really have the time to prepare for and then also be engaged with. Yeah. And I know you are much better at this than I am, but a lot of people overuse their phones as a way to recover. And if we have a moment to just have a conversation, most people acknowledge the phone is actually draining. Yeah. So how could it help people to just take a few minutes before life ramps up and gets really busy to identify what they need? The goals that they want for this season so that they can use their energy in a way that serves'em so they can manage their social energy more effectively. Yeah. It takes time and pausing, which it's hard to do. Right. But thinking about, and this is one of your sessions in the holiday harmony series, is what are the events you have and what, how is it going to affect your energy? The different ones it, you know, are you doing physical work for it? Are you doing emotional work for it? And, and then thinking about. What can help you so that it isn't so draining. The, the, we call them during tools, right? It's like, what can I use during the event instead of just white knuckling it and then dealing with it afterwards? This like, and that's why we end up almost doing this relief escapist behavior, is you're, you've kind of just white knuckled it through, but can you do something to make. Not so draining and, and more importantly, enjoyable. Like you want to be present at these events and, and be with these people that you love. Some of'em you may not, but you know, enjoy the event and be more present instead of just kind of wanting it to be over with and without paying attention. You could have a thought driving this whole holiday season, like, I can't wait for this to be over. You're not aware that social energy is real, emotional energy is real. Your brain is trying to protect you by saying, you don't have enough energy for this. You're pretty close to depletion. Ah, I just can't wait for it to be over. Or we so keep ourselves from the presence, from the present moment, from enjoying because we're tired, overwhelmed, depleted. And then of course, if we don't have any recovery time after we go to the next event, even more tired, overwhelmed, and depleted. Yeah. Yeah. White space. So important. And we think we don't have time for it, but it doesn't have to be a lot of time. It doesn't have to be a whole day or even half a day. So identifying ahead of time for me, what, like what do I need? What are my goals? What, what is made one event or another challenging for me helps me choose, well, what do I, what can I use for this event? So it's not like every tool is a one size fits all for every event, but really getting into what do I need specifically? Is what made the difference for me and wow, I actually can enjoy this and my battery isn't so drained and I need less recovery work, and it's, it's really all but eliminated that escapist behavior, which wasn't even the goal in the first place. That was kind of a side discovery when we started doing this energy work. It was like, oh my gosh, this has affected my relationship with food. Like, it wasn't even on the radar that, that it was related and it was just so helpful and I. I just want to share it with other people. Well, I'm so glad that we're sharing it.'cause one of the things that I learned from the life Coach school is the power of thoughts. Our thoughts are creating our feelings. And our feelings are driving our actions, either towards or away from the result we want. And what if today, by listening to this podcast, you chose a power thought, like, I get to choose joy. And enjoy this event. I get to choose joy and enjoy this event. You start looking for things that make you smile. Mm-hmm. You start doing the things that help you enjoy the event. Well, during the event, you might have a toolbox that helps you enjoy the event. It's not just enough to have a power thought. You often need some action steps to go with it. So instead of waiting until the event is over. People could actually decide to do small steps during. Why not just wait though until the event is over? Why not just save up your recovery? I think of our summer series where people say, I'm going to go away for two weeks this summer, and that's all I need. I'm going to overwork the whole rest of the year. And then they run really hard on that vacation and need a vacation after the vacation. Mm-hmm. Why is it not best to save all our recovery until after events are over? Well, I think, I know for me firsthand, it prevents. Well, it makes the recovery a lot harder because you, you're burning yourself out, but it also really takes away the present for you because you're like, I'll be happy later. I'll relax later. It, I'm just going to work, work, work, or, you know, do these say yes to everything and deal with that later? I think it, it throws off our ability to, actually be part of life. I think you, do so much unconsciously in that scenario, um, because you're just putting your head down and working. I mean all work, and not recognizing the burnout be until it happens, right? And understanding the different types of energy and how it impacts you day to day, the natural rhythm of them and how they impact each other can help you intervene way sooner, so that you can. Not only not be as drained, but then be more joyful in the present. So that's what we want to inspire people today, right? We want to say choose a power thought, like, I want to enjoy this experience. I'm going to create the tools that I need during it so that when I start to notice, oh, I'm losing my energy, you might notice it by a thought. You might notice it by a feeling. You might notice it by your body giving you a signal. But if you start to prepare for an event on purpose with a power thought, like, I want to enjoy these people, I want to enjoy this experience, and then you have a toolbox to go with you that can often help you. Not only be present for the experiences you want to be in, but not be so exhausted after that, it affects every other part of your life. So what are some of these during tools that you think could help people? So we talked about shifting mindsets, trying to get into aligned energy, but let's get really practical. What's a tool that you've used or someone else might be able to use when they start to notice in the middle of an event? I'm getting really tired. I can't keep doing this. Mm. Yeah, I have many, and it really depends on the event. And so I think, in addition to a power thought or shifting your attitude about an event, thinking ahead about, well, what are the actual factors of that event that are going to impact me? Like in terms of the number of people, what is your role? You know, how long is the event? Do I, can I control when I leave? Like, these are things that impact me a lot. What is the food situation? Am I comfortable in my clothing? Like there's things that really impact my personal ability to socialize. And so choosing the tools based on that list is, is how I get there. And so one of the big tools for me, I have just sensory issues in crowds. I, I get kind of like, feel like a caged animal if I'm too crowded. And so this is so simple. One of the tools for me when I know an event is crowded, if I can, is being on the physical perimeter or edges. Mm. So if it's a concert, for example, I, and I'm in a group and I can be on the end seat helpful for me, right? If it's a big crowd standing somewhere, I want to be on the perimeter of it. If it, if it's a, and know you can't always choose your seat at a wedding. Right. But if you can choose where you're, if you're seated in a crowded eating situation, for me being. The physical edges is psychologically calming for me. I would love to talk about that for a moment. You and I met in a church During the holiday, the worship area got filled with people. Yeah. And I loved that. I loved well, and the assumption is that everybody loves that. Right? That's just wonderful. Like, let's all be together. It's just wonderful. And there's those of us that are like, oh, I need to get outta here. But do families all have to sit together? If there is somebody in your family who the tight energy of a bunch of people in a small space would exhaust them, would it be okay for that person to say, you know what I might go sit in the back just for part of this so that I don't lose all my energy. It's something that I'd never thought of until you described it right now, but maybe that's something someone might notice. Because the people you're with don't mind some of the things that you're noticing drain you,. Is it okay for you to move to the edge? Yeah. And, and when you can't, like sometimes you're kind of forced to move in the middle or you're, you know, you have assigned seat at a crowded wedding or whatever. Having. Thinking ahead of time about stepping away subtly here and there, maybe more often, um, than you might think to help you kind of reset in the middle rather than that white knuckling that feeling like I want to get outta here if you can, in the middle of it, kind of step away. Not to go scroll on your phone, but like maybe would just walk around a little bit if you can walk outside the building or, or even if you just go into the bathroom and having a drink of water or something like that. All these little step away moments to go be alone if possible. Breathing. That's another. Really, there's tons of great breathing techniques. I think. Well you talk a lot about power, thoughts. And I feel in my experience, combining breathing exercises with those power thoughts, like you inhale as you think the power thought, and then you exhale the thoughts that you want to remove. I could go on forever. It's interesting to notice, are you somebody in general, you're going to go to the next event and you're starting to notice these particular things might drain my social energy, having to have. Lots of conversations where people are just on the surface versus one or two conversations where people connect deeply. Being squished into a small area with what you consider to be too many people. Maybe it's too loud, maybe it's too warm. I was telling you that I had my first experience of what I think you and my husband experience a lot. We went to a restaurant in Boston. And normally I am a people person, like bring me to New York City. Lots of loud noises, lots of people. I generally feel energized. But in this particular restaurant, it was extremely hot, extremely, extremely loud. I could barely hear, and somebody behind me kept screaming and kind of startling me. And I, I found it hard to enjoy my food. I even took a video of it to send my children, like, I don't know if I'm just getting old or what, but this was too much for me. But that's often true of him. Those Christmas Eve experiences that I just adored. I feel like if he had had this toolbox and knew we could all come together, but he could stand in the back. Yeah. He didn't have to be squished. Sometimes it means leaving early, right? Like there are come late, leave early, not be there the whole time. And nothing's wrong with that. Right. And, and sometimes it's even saying no, but there are things that. You want to say yes to, you want to be part of, you're committed to this community or this family event and it has all these issues for you. That's where the tools come in so handy is, you know, I've committed. Well, can we talk about one of the tools? I told you a couple weeks ago, our priest at the Episcopal Church, we go to describe the 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 tool. And my husband had never heard of it. And you and I have done this work for a little bit of time. Yeah. And I was surprised that maybe I hadn't said it before. Yeah. But maybe you're in one of those places where you can't step away. Yeah, and it's a little too hot. It's too many people. The conversation you're having is so draining. It's somebody that is not energizing you. How could you use something like the 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, or a different sensory grounding tool? Have you ever done that before? I have. Has it been helpful? That's hugely helpful. So I always 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. I think it's five things you can see, four things you can hear. You know, you go down the senses and. That is very helpful. I, one a little bit simpler, one that I use a lot is identifying colors. Yeah. I'll kind of go through, I need to find something that's red and and breathing while I'm doing it. It is. So quick how it calms your nervous system. So can we talk about that for a minute? So you're in a big space. Yeah. So examples of people was at a basketball game. Yes. When one of my kids was little and it, and this is, you know, long time ago, but it, I, it, I got the, it just like you in that restaurant. It was really hot, really crowded. Obviously I'm going to stay to the end of the game. I didn't know most of these tools yet. I hadn't done this work yet, but I had heard of that technique and actually something I learned from learning about how to help my kids with their own anxiety. Um, and I'm like, let me try this. So I'm at the basketball game. I said, lemme find something that's red. And I had a, there was a song when I was a kid that we sang in chorus that. Sang colors in a certain order. So I have that embedded in my brain. And so I went, what's the next color? Um, next one was yellow. And, and I went through and identified them all and breathing while I was doing it. And, you know, it was still hot and crowded and noisy, but I felt so much calmer at the end of it. And it just helped me. It kind of bought me time. It kind of re, you know, I recharged my ability to be present in that moment. That was sensory overwhelm, overwhelming from a sensory standpoint. And how great would it have been for us to know this when we were younger? Right. A lot of times this kind of techniques are kind of focused on, you know, people on the autism spectrum or, or like, but I think every single human being needs to understand all of this because absolutely. Everybody's so different in what overwhelms them or what the energizes them or not. And rather than thinking there's something wrong with you if a, like in that restaurant, you're like, what's wrong? Am I getting old? What's wrong with me? It's nothing's wrong with you. This is just an overwhelming situation and you're being bombarded in a way that you're not meant to be bombarded. And I did the step away. I left my table a couple times, help you to ground myself. To think about something simple like either box breathing, where I would breathe in and then hold mm-hmm. And then breathe out and, um, or taking the time to say, is there anything red? And while I'm looking for the red to concentrate on breathing slowly, using those tools together could help you. As you said, by the time you're going to be in an event for two hours. And if you could refill right. You've described it kind of like planes that sometimes get refilled in the air. Yeah. If you could just refuel yourself a little bit, does it mean at the end of the event you're less depleted? I love calling it putting coins in the meter, but people don't understand that concept anymore. Like Right, because we use the card, put another quarter in the meter, but it, but it's that concept of my meter's running low, I gotta do something. My car's going to get towed if I don't do something right now. I think if you can think of your social energy or all the different types of energy like that is, I feel this drain coming on, what do I need to do to stop it from draining more or to to replenish it? And there's tools in each of of the types of energy for that. And we're going to be sharing the tools through a workbook. But one that I wanted to talk about is I think a lot of women have ideas that don't always serve us. And one might be, it's not okay for me to take a quiet moment alone. So I think about my children. Coming home with their significant others for the holiday, and my husband and I are now empty nesters. I'm used to a different level of noise and activity and how clean my house stays, right? So now that we've done this a couple years and starting to expect, okay, a lot of energy is going to come into my house and until I did this work, I would never have been okay with going and taking a quiet moment alone so that I could refuel. I had thoughts about mothers wouldn't do that, and it's not very nice to company and all of these things and yeah. When I didn't one Thanksgiving in particular, I went and did a restorative yoga class online. I felt like that was just so many quarters put back into my meter. I was a different person after going and taking that one hour for yoga. What do you, well, you know what's interesting is, is. Not only is it a good example for your kids mm-hmm. But I find when I do something like that, nobody even really notices. Like they didn't, they don't, they don't all live together and so they're having their own little reunion as siblings. It's like they don't mind if you step away like, right. Not that, I mean, you're important, but you're not like that important that, that you can't step away to take care of yourself. I, and it is just such a good example to them. Uh, I don't know. It's just kind of funny'cause I remember doing that one time with this test, but, oh, I need to just step away. And it was probably 10 minutes. It wasn't even a long time. I'm like, no one even noticed that I was gone. And even if they do, it's okay. Like in the summer, we'll go away on vacations together. And they all prefer going to breweries. I don't really like that. I like walking around the ocean or going into a small town and they don't like that. So for us to separate and me to have some quiet time alone, it's something I never would've thought I needed. Yeah, and it serves me so much. It really is. I really like that idea of putting more coins into my energy bank. Well, and it made you enjoy the time you were together more rather than, I'm going to be with you every single second.'cause here you are with me physically. You know you're not across the country right now. I have to be with you every second. It's like, well. Do you? Well, and then I'm resentful, right?'cause my energy is gone and I didn't notice it leaving. I do appreciate that. Now, I do notice my energy when I'm starting to get depleted, and it doesn't mean I don't love them. I just love myself more. And if I can take care of myself first, then I have energy for others. And that took a lot of work to get comfortable saying. So one of the things that you did that's absolutely exceptional is you helped us create a workbook where we walked slowly through some of these tools that people could use during the day. And we are not saying do seven tools for a two hour event. Pick one. Yeah. One or two. Yeah, try. Um, and another thing I definitely want to add is I've had situations where I've made a toolbox and I. In error called it a failure that it didn't work. Mm, actually not really true. Um. Well, I guess it sort of is, but to just view it as a failure is not helpful. It's like, well, I actually needed different tools or I needed to think through this a little bit more. Or, or you needed more tools. Right, because it was actually harder than you thought. Yeah. Right. And'cause some tools are just'cause it didn't work this time doesn't mean it's never going to work. Like there's, there's just this importance to kind of go back and reflect and pivot and tweak. Because every event's going to need a different set of toolbox. And I have evolved to. Certain types of events, I kind of don't even need it. I just have an automatic system now. But then there's others where I still need to kind of pay attention, and so I think. Not just preparing ahead of time, but reflecting afterwards which tools worked, which didn't work. You know, what were the factors that I actually wished I had thought of tools for, you know, that I didn't think of, and, and keeping track of it either in your head or I have to write down and create documents, um, for my brain. But whatever way it helps you to. Kind of tweak it, it, it really gets easier and easier.'cause it feels like a lot at first, like maybe I have to spend all this time thinking ahead of, but it takes less and less time the more you do it as any developing any habit does. And that's one of the things you've gifted people with is the workbook, the. Means you don't have to start from scratch. Here are some tools that you've tried on that they could adapt. I think about at the very beginning of the conversation, you were talking about sometimes you're in at an at an event and just the clothes you're wearing Yeah. Can make the event so hard. So I had my daughter get married this year, and you let me borrow a very comfortable dress and then gave me the encouragement to bring my sneakers. Yeah. And to change out after the pictures. And I had just the best time because my clothes were comfortable. Yeah. Yeah. That might be something that serves people. Hey, you're going to be at an event and it's really, really long. Be aware that the clothes can make it easier or harder. Well, and you can be comfortable and appropriately dressed too. I think this concept that if you're dressed up you, you're not going to be comfortable is in error. Like Right. There's definitely more material, but there's a lot and there's so many options. It's just endless how many options you are. I just think it's an interesting thing to notice is there are things that if you just took a few minutes now and said, you know what, if I have to wear this dress'cause I'm in the wedding party. Yeah. And it's heavy and it's itchy. That's going to add. To the physical part of me that then when the social energy gets drained, it's going to make it a little bit harder as well. So there is obviously nuance, there's creating toolbox for the middle of the activity that is important to you, and then there is the reflection that happens after. But before we end, I wanted to look at this idea. Is it ever okay to say no to an event? Because your social budget energy, your social energy budget is low. Is that ever okay to say no? Yeah, absolutely. And yeah. Why would somebody need some confidence to say no? I think for me, learning how to say no, transform my life, right? Boundaries are me saying the yeses and the nos that I want to say, and for me to just check in every day now that I know energy is real and say, do I have the emotional energy for a text exchange? Do I have it for a phone call? Do I have it for a visit? Has been so profound because my automatic answer, if somebody said, text me, call me, visit me, was of course, that's what I should do. Well, and I, I think what we do, and, and maybe it's mostly women, I'm not really sure, but this, this sense that we have to give a. Quote, unquote valid reason to say no to something. U usually when someone says no, they give a reason, right? I have a conflict, I have this, I have that. Nobody's ever going to say, I don't have the social energy for that. Right? Because it feels embarrassing. Or, or like, you don't have to, first of all, you can say no without saying why, why we think we have no is a sentence have a reason? No is an absolute full sentence. It's hard to know.'cause there are things that I know I have an event tonight actually, that is not my kind of event. But I am committed to the reason it's existing and I'm going to it. Right. There are other times where I just have to say no. And I, do feel bad. I think we have this guilt like, like we're letting someone down or they're going to stop inviting us, which might be true, right? It might be true. It usually isn't. Thinking you have to sacrifice yourself or, or like there's no way you can actually recharge your. Energy to to attend. It's perfectly fine. Just say no. We have a hard time with that. That's what I want this conversation to be. Another idea for somebody. If you were supposed to do something and you came down with a migraine I hope you would love yourself enough to stay home and take care of yourself physically. Why is it so, so different? Yeah. When people aren't aware that social energy is real, that emotional energy and mental energy is real, and when they're depleted socially, mentally, emotionally, it's also okay to say no. Yeah. Yeah. As we go into a season, whether you may have more social experiences, you may have more opportunities to say your yes and nos. One of the first things we can do is just begin with accepting the fact that social energy is real. And limited, and whether you knew it or not, you probably had a coping system, it just may not have been serving you. We're trying to help people develop coping systems that can serve you. And so we thought a workbook with some of these tools and a way to journal, and see what changes. I like the idea of this being an experiment. Yeah. Try it for one event. Pick a couple tools for one event and see what happens. Five years of doing this, some of these tools are now just natural. They're just part of you. Yeah. And you might find yourself starting to look forward to the events because you're no longer depleted. That is so true because I know I can do it. Mm. I know I can find the positives in the event and not just, I want to get it over with. It's awkward socially. Yeah. So different and, that's how I want to live my life. I want to enjoy being around like we're meant to be in community. My mother isolated really made her life so small. That's what we do to stay safe, right? It feels comfortable saying no and being safe. Oh my goodness. Aren't you noticing that? Now that my husband and I have to travel to see our children, we're like, it is so easy to say no to everything and just stay in our nice, comfortable, yeah, climate controlled home with the perfect pillows I know I don't like flying and now I have to fly to see one of my kids and, and I'm like, well, I'm doing it. Like I'm not going to not do that. I'm, I'm going to, more important for me to be there than to be comfortably not flying. Right? That's one of those things. You can't just get up and walk around. You're going to need to figure out how to breathe through it. Oh my gosh. Well, one of the reasons we want to talk about this is you and I have both seen big life change by learning these tools, being in community with other people so that we don't feel alone. It's like, oh, you too understand what it's like to have a bunch of events coming up and you both want to do it, and something inside you says, oh, I can't wait till it's over. Do you think for somebody listening here that joining our group coaching program on Wednesdays where we spend 30 minutes learning tools, applying them and having a community around us. Does that feel like something that we could invite people to because we know it serves us. It is really helpful. So many times when someone in the group just starts talking about a specific anecdote or the thing they're challenged with, we all get it right? And there's no judgment, there's no, why do you feel that way? It's just oh yeah, that's life. That's part of going through life and you know, you have such great tools to address pretty much everything that, that the human experience encounters. And doing it ongoing, you know, not everyone makes every week of course, but it's only 30 minutes, right? It's not this huge time commitment, layers on all these tools and techniques and the sense of community that we're going through this together. Invaluable. You become like the five people you spend the most time with, finding a community of people who are excited to learn new things and to have people in their life to share it with mm-hmm. Also is valuable. So we want both. We want to be able to share the tools with you and help you create a community where you can apply them. So join us. I'll have the link at the bottom of this podcast. Ellen, as we end episode 150, I do want to thank you. None of this would've been possible without you. Together we have created a program that helps you align your energy, helps you invest in your dream, create mutually flourishing relationships, and we think all those things together create a vibrant life. So thank you so much for being here today. You're welcome. And thank you for having me. I hope that this episode truly helps you live a brave, creative, purpose-filled life.