Five days away from the 2020 election, David and Andrew talk to David Plazas, Opinion and Engagement Director for the USA TODAY Network Tennessee. The conversation covers topics around voting integrity, journalistic integrity, community engagement, civil public discourse, and the oeuvre of Plazas' video podcast, Tennessee Voices.
Five days away from the 2020 election, David and Andrew talk to David Plazas, Opinion and Engagement Director for the USA TODAY Network Tennessee. The conversation covers topics around voting integrity, journalistic integrity, community engagement, civil public discourse, and the oeuvre of Plazas' video podcast, Tennessee Voices.
All right, here we go. Another episode of hyphenated life. Yes. We're recording, uh, in the afternoon. Beautiful fall afternoon here in Boulder, Colorado. And we're going to have David plazas on today, who at David is, uh, a journalist for the Tennesseean back in Nashville, which are your stomping grounds, right? Andrew?
Speaker 2:Sure. Yeah. I went to Belmont university and we're recording this, uh, actually right before the last presidential debate, hosted by Belmont university. Thank you very much. Is it really? No. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. What's their mascot. It's not the Bruins Bruins. Oh, it used to be the rebels used to be the Belmont rebels, but they were Baptist once upon a time. So they changed their mascot to a cuddly bear, I guess. Is that what a ruined is? Yes. Okay.
Speaker 1:It's apparently to bear. So you went from being a cuddly bear to a demon deacon. That's a fun transition. Yeah.
Speaker 2:As a fun transition. Definitely. Yeah. So I know David plazas through one of my BFFs who lives in Nashville. He's a, uh, a music minister. He's also a producer and a songwriter. And so I met David plazas through my friend, Steven, and, uh, so grateful for that connection and really grateful for David, uh, plazas being willing to come on to this brand new podcast. We're really lucky to have him today.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I was excited, uh, looking through his, his sort of all, all his oeuvre of work with the Tennessee and he started a
Speaker 2:Nice you're so French.
Speaker 1:Um, he he's, uh, during the pandemic, he started a sort of video podcast where he interviews folks from Tennessee, from, from politicians to community, uh, advocates and, and, uh, people doing good work. And it was really inspiring to see it. And he is plowing through those at an inspirational rate. He's over a hundred.
Speaker 2:Yeah. As of right now, I think they just finished episode 102. That's awesome. We can only be so fortunate as to record 102 episodes of hyphenated life. Of course.
Speaker 1:Well, at some point, yeah, not in the first season, but, um, we'll get there eventually. And so we do about 12 episodes, a season. That's going to be a few seasons away before we get to triple digits, but,
Speaker 2:And David just recorded an interview on the Tennessee voices podcast, which was, I believe what he started during pandemic, um, to, as his own creative project. And just recently recorded a conversation with Carol Huddler, who, uh, is a retired publisher and a non-profit leader, and talks a little bit about that around what newspaper organizations are like today, kind of moving to digital centered, you know, publication and not those traditional channels. So I'm really also to kind of hear from David today about what the newspaper business is like these days and how, how he's adapted to, to that new format and that new reality that the churches have adapted to as well. Obviously being online all the time, right?
Speaker 1:You have churches, newspapers, and classical music. That's a realm, journalism, media news. It's a, it's a realm. That's a hot topic today. And it really does cross those lines of sacred and secular worlds, organizationally functionally. And so I think, I think he'll have a lot to contribute to hyphenate.
Speaker 2:I agree. Um, I'm really curious too. I mean, we live in a time of quote unquote fake news, um, and to some degree, some attack on freedom of the press, right? So enemy of the people, right. And misinformation campaigns and how you manage that in a digital space that morphs and mushrooms, mushrooms out in all these different ways. Um, so yeah, I think that that's a big deal right now. And we look forward to hearing from David today talking about freedom of the press and what that means for someone who lives that reality every day.
Speaker 1:The Bible is his story of it's a compilation of liberation stories, right? The Bible is about soul freedom and spiritual freedom and freedom of the press is critical. You know, like these ideas of freedom also can't be separated into sacred and secular. It's a, it's an ethos and it was an ethos that our country was founded on. And when you start making false accusations against the media,
Speaker 2:A big misunderstanding right now is the difference between religious organizations that are political and ones that are partisan. And I think that, you know, when you start breaking that down, I think when Pete, when you start addressing the big issues of the day, people believe you're being partisan somehow. Um, Jesus suffered a political execution. Like he threatened the political powers of his time. But for some reason, especially in the Trump era, you know, it, I think those turn signals are, are really mixed up.
Speaker 1:David plazas talks about his work convening conversations with diverse groups, advocating for space, for public disagreement in modeling and promoting civil conversations in a polarized time. That's like he wants people to disagree productively and not, um, combatively so it's that going back to the idea of, um, cooperation in conflict versus combat and conflict. So having a healthy debate, there's nothing wrong with an argument, you know, respect like coming from a, uh, foundation of, of equality and always comes back to social justice. Like we are on the same level. We are both humans, you know, we're all humans, we are humanity and let's be civil about this, or
Speaker 2:You're on it. I don't
Speaker 1:Know. We'll see, we'll see where it goes. I'm going to give you a heads up. I'll probably make a joke about, um, newspapers. Yeah. Yeah. What's your joke. I don't know yet. I'll when it comes to me, I'll know and you'll know
Speaker 3:[inaudible]
Speaker 2:Welcome to hyphenated life. We invite you to join us on this journey to explore the connection of the sacred and the secular that inspires us to become more fully alive
Speaker 3:[inaudible]
Speaker 2:Today. We are so delighted to welcome David plazas onto hyphenated life. David is opinion and engagement director for the USA today, network Tennessee, David writes editorials and columns and oversees the opinion team and strategy for multiple large and small publications across the state, including the Tennessee in his award winning work has focused on inequities in the public school system, affordable housing transit, and local and state politics. As the leader of the civility Tennessee campaign, which began in 2018, he seeks to promote, encourage, and model civically engaged practices that focus on citizen empowerment and democratic renewal. He has frequently moderated debates, forums, and community conversation conversations during COVID-19. He started the Tennessee voices video podcast, which is a show featuring conversations with leaders, thinkers, and innovators from across the state. He holds master's degrees in journalism and business administration. He resides with his husband, Darren and their two chihuahuas in Nashville. David plazas. Welcome to hyphenated life. Andrew, thank you so much.
Speaker 1:Hello, David, how are you doing good. Good to have you David. And so,
Speaker 2:David, uh, we're just gonna see where this conversation goes today in some ways, but I, I know that you are very passionate, uh, in terms of how you are convening conversations with diverse groups there in Nashville. You're advocating for space for public disagreement, which is very intriguing, uh, and modeling and promoting civil conversations. And what we know is a time politically and religiously, uh, we're just a few days away, apparently from a presidential election. I'm not sure that that, uh, that our listeners have heard about that, but that is coming up. So, uh, David, let's just start by hearing from you about what really engages your passions professionally in terms of, of how you're convening those conversations with diverse groups and, and looking to create space for, uh, public disagreement during this really crazy time.
Speaker 4:No, thanks for doing this so much, Andrea, and we're recording this just a few days before the final presidential debate, which is happening in Nashville, Tennessee at Belmont university. So it will be, um, it's supposed to be a circus, but I'm hoping that we'll have some good questions that are asked and answered. Incidentally, I'm hosting a debate watch party that night, uh, on disability, Tennessee page. We're going to be discussing topics such as not who won the debate because it's so subjective, but did they answer the questions they were asked? And, and I think this is at the heart of getting to sit in engagement. It's not about picking winners or losers because sometimes it's not about, you know, winning the argument per se, but it's about an exchange of ideas and a new opportunity to create a relationship where you build respect. Um, I like to say, and it's not necessarily original though. I've modified it to make me comfortable with it, which is, you know, uh, facts don't change people's minds, but relationships can. And imagine if you have a good working relationship with somebody who may see, may not see something in the same way, whether it's something like same-sex marriage or climate change or, or health care access, you know, if you talk about the, the power of storytelling is so compelling, uh, and as a journalist, as a storyteller, you know, I think that I can use those skills to help people. I have. Um, I, I grew up in a somewhat idyllic situation where my parents really encouraged to bait at the dining room table. And they encouraged though civil debate where you respected one another and you can disagree, but you were going to get ugly about it. And that helped model from a very early age, how I thought about her and I've been a reader since I was a little kid and read two newspapers. Growing up was a big nerd I love to read. And I think that was really important in terms of my upbringing to understand that in fact, I could consider different points of view. And, uh, I had the privilege of being in classes that challenged me to understand and argue, uh, points of view that weren't mine. I was in the constitution law class where I was arguing on behalf of utilitarian, uh, Chinese government on West censorship was good, which is precisely not my point of view. I don't agree with that, but it was interesting to see how you can argue these fine points. Um, there are times when it's very difficult to have a civil discussion when people try to minimize your worth or your dignity at that point, it's really difficult. It's really challenging. And, uh, it may be impossible, but I think most people do care about, uh, having good relationships. Sometimes they just don't know. And sometimes I'll take a quick factor before I stopped, but, um, uh, research from Q center and also from the American press Institute show that only 21st 20% of Americans have ever met a journalist. So 80% of the people have an impression of a journalist based upon what made they may have heard or seen. And so sometimes that's why the, the, the, our reputation is so bad because we're suddenly not the person who shops with you goes to worship with you, uh, has a conversation with you over coffee, that, that enemy enemy of the people. Uh, and, and that's one of my compelling reasons why I do this is because the press is essential to a working democracy. Uh, and it's in my interest. And I think in the interests of my citizens, my fellow citizens to have a healthy democracy.
Speaker 2:Thank you, David. Certainly we're living in a time where there is, uh, an attack, uh, happening on freedom of the press. Uh, and so you have just recently, uh, interviewed, I believe someone who is a mentor of yours, uh, Carol Huddler, and you talk about how the news publication industry has gone through such a tumultuous 20 years with online platforms, uh, and, and sort of the, the new tradition, so to speak of what's going on with, uh, the newspaper business. Uh, how do you, how would you say, or what, what have you observed in your own day to day experience? I think it's very interesting, uh, how so few people know journalists in their lives? What are some of this, what are some of the stereotypes that you, uh, if you could just say that you would love to blast, especially in terms of what's going on today with the rhetoric of fake news and with the freedom of the press.
Speaker 4:Yeah. Thank you for asking that. I think some of the things that we often hear is that journalists don't care about the community that we just, you know, if it, um, if only it'll only lead, if it bleeds or whatever the expression is, uh, and that, that it's the best sensationalism. And the reality is that that's not healthy journalism. You know, there, I think many publications have, unfortunately had incidents where either we've made mistakes or by someone's decision to be less community oriented. And, uh, when I started doing the work that I was doing in 2006, actually with community conversations, it was really considered radical back then. And today it's essential. I think for us to survive, um, different newspaper platforms have had different successes, you know, New York times and Washington post started really, really well in this time, let a local newspapers are not, you know, a lot of local newspapers have shrunk significantly. And there's also this perception because the newspaper has shrunk. The physical print newspaper has shrunk so much that newspaper companies aren't doing so well. It's kind of a mixed bag because our consumers are going to the digital realm. We have to be where they are. And to give, you know, just give you an idea of why it's been so disruptive. Uh, if you remember Craigslist, when it first came out, you know, it offered classified as for free classified ads were what funded newsrooms, you know, this was an essential part of, of the newspaper business. And then that went away and then you had Google and Facebook and other players come in and essentially dominate the digital advertising space. So suddenly we were making pennies. And so, um, one of the things that, one of the, the, the seemingly minor myths that I try to debunk is when someone says, I read it on Facebook, I know you probably read it from me or Fred it from one of my colleagues. Um, you know, and our challenge is basically saying that this is in fact, something that has been vetted. This is something that we've put time into it, and that we need your help to invest and to stay healthy, because unfortunately in our business model is one where even though the first amendment gives us the right to a, to a free press, it doesn't guarantee our success as a free press. Uh, and so we have to be very mindful of that. Um, and I no longer, I'm afraid to ask people to subscribe to their local newspaper, because it's at the lifeblood of who is covering those local issues. I'm, I'm very much focused on local and state issues in my daily life, because I think sometimes as much as we think about the polarized, the national environment and the presidential race, those local issues are far more important. Your sidewalk issues, trends that, you know, even something as seemingly minor as garbage pickup or landfills, and those have massive consequences when it comes to the environment or quality of life. And these are things that are covered by local journalists, and we have to do it in different ways than we did before. We just don't have the staff that we used to have at least most, most of us. Don't. Um, there's also the question of, you know, the business model right now, in a sense, um, and it's, it's somewhat of a perverse statement, but Trump has been good for some media organizations, because if you continue to enrage and you continue to pin yourself as the anti president, Trump, there is might need to be made there. And there are certainly, um, people who, you know, the question will be depending on the November 3rd election results, what will happen, you know, at this moment, um, it was always the joke of what happens to et cetera at live. If the president is not as interesting as the previous one, you know, and so, you know, but I think that the responsible media organization is one that looks long-term to say, what is our ultimate goal? If our goal is to benefit our community, we have to be consistent and transparent and honest, and also adapt as we need to because our, our business has changed. Um, you know, there's a wonderful picture that shows in the early 20th century, uh, all these horses and buggies that are in New York city and a few, you know, early automobiles. And during that time, and then, you know, come just a few decades later, and it's almost all automobiles and a few horses and buggies transportation is still essential, but it's just different and information is still essential, but it's just different. And I don't know how we're going to look like in five years to necessarily, I think there still be a demand for it. The question is, will people have developed the attention span to understand what they're reading and probably the biggest crisis? I think aside from misinformation and disinformation is consumers who don't have literacy. Um, and that's one of the things that I focused on with disability campaign is not to tell you how to think, but it was it's to provide some guidance on how to approach an article, you know, how do you know it's true? You know, w how can you tell where the sources came from? You know, is it something that someone who's credible or, um, your, or how can you verify this to ensure that it's there? And if you have a complaint about it, how can I do that? How can I counter this? How can I get a correction? How can I make sure that my voice is heard? Because sometimes, you know, there are some things people see things differently, and I think that's okay. Or the question is when we start dismissing facts outright, that's really dangerous, uh, for a democracy.
Speaker 1:David, I can't thank you enough. I wish I could have bullet pointed there probably about 20 things in there that I think everyone in our country should read every day that they wake up, uh, at least maybe should have for the past several years. There are a lot of elements of news coverage and journalism and discourse that have gotten really toxic and divisive and politicized. Um, I love I was going through some of your Tennessee voices, uh, video podcasts interviews, and I loved how so many of them weren't on, on things. Like if it bleeds, it leads was on things on, on spotlighting who is healing that bleeding. And so bringing up the positive side of, of solving problems in our society and whatnot. And I think for me, that's largely where I th I think this idea of news coverage and in media and journalism can really double dip into this sacred and secular worlds. You know, we want to celebrate social justice and highlighting that isn't necessarily always the most popular thing to do as far as the clickbait concept. Um, Andrew and I were talking about in the medical world, doctors take a Hippocratic oath, and it's sort of a moral and ethical oath that they take. And I was wondering, I could probably Google it, but is there something similar in the world of journalism? Um, and, and if so, where, where, where, w where does that come from? What does it mean to you? And if there isn't one, you know, what you've been describing, what, what all these things mean to you, but, um, I think the sort of moral and ethical impetus behind good journalism is important.
Speaker 4:Absolutely. You know, one thing, and there is, and there isn't, and what I mean by that is that there's no national panel that dictates how journalists are supposed to comport themselves. Because one of the things that the first amendment allows is anybody to have a press. So I don't need a license to be a practicing journalist. Uh, I just need to be hired by someone to distribute news. So within this sphere, we've had these conversations about bloggers, about pundits, about, and so that's why it all gets muddled, because sometimes when people talk about the media, they try to include all of this. And one of the things I tried to debunk is, you know, we're very different organizations. You know, we, we have different codes of ethics. And for us, ethics is really important in my organization. Our code of ethics is modeled after the society of professional journalists, code of ethics. It's a voluntary organization, but many, many journalists like myself are members because we believe that how we act and how we comport ourselves is really important. Uh, not just for, for our long-term viability, but because it's the right thing to do. Uh, and just to highlight some of the aspects of that, that could have ethics. You know, a lot of it is just very, um, common sense, but you have to, you have to, uh, do it. One of them is seek truth and report it. You know, another one is minimized harm. Another one is acting independently, be accountable transparent. So those, those four basic principles, which have multiple bullet points, and, and I'll be happy to share with you the link to the SPJ, but, but if you look at society, professional journalist, ethical code of ethics, um, you'll find it there. And it's very specific because you don't misrepresent yourself. You, you know, you seek to do your best to tell the truth. You know, sometimes this is why you see a lot of articles so-and-so said, because sometimes it's what that person's perspective is. If you haven't seen something yourself. Um, but developing that credibility is really important, too. I'm glad you mentioned public transit because one of the, the year long projects that I did a few years ago, which has been one of the most meaningful to me was on affordable housing. It was called the cost of growth and change in Nashville. Uh, and the way that I got the idea was I was riding the bus for a whole year, once a week, at least. And I was just listening to people's conversations and people kept on talking about the rising cost of living now, not unique to, to natural big cities, whether it's Denver or New York or Los Angeles. I mean, the housing has gotten very expensive over the last decade or so. And as I kept on hearing these Australian pudding, looking at the data and seeing is this true. And in fact, what I found was that, whereas rent had gone up exponentially almost 60%. You know, salaries went up less than 10%. There was a major disconnect between what people made and what they could afford. And in part, it was because we had a lot of transplants coming in, making more money who could afford those kinds of rents, pushing people outside of the city. But if I hadn't been listening and if I hadn't, you know, pre pandemic, I took Lyft and Uber quite a bit. Um, I like to talk to my driver, you know, what's going on, you know, just to, to listen and it's one perspective, but that theme kept on coming up about what is happening to us, who are we, what's our identity. And that was a way to really explore that even further. I, I had, um, a ride a few years ago when I first started the civility campaign. And I came from, you know, it was all jazzed up from listening to the, uh, this gentleman who gave this wonderful speech on civic engagement and, you know, feel good about yourself. Everybody be kind to each other. I get my Lyft ride and the driver starts talking to me about this transportation referendum that was ongoing at the time. And, you know, and I corrected her. I said, well, it's this. And she looks at me and says, people like you are ruining this city. And I was thinking, so what do you mean? Um, and she apologized, but she, she stopped herself and said she was from Nashville, native Nashvillian. And she never benefited from the growth that you saw in downtown Nashville. She felt on the periphery. And the irony of course, was she's driving someone around who is a transplant in her car, and who's helping her make ends meet. And that's one of the challenges that, to me, it was, it was a big aha moment because it was like, what are we doing that we are creating situations of, of what we're, where people can't afford to live in their own city, or they don't recognize it. And by the way, that referendum was defeated handily, because there were a lot more people like her who felt disconnected from the argument, had those pushing the referendum, listened and bothered to think, is this something that people really want or need, or that they're willing to pay for what they're willing to wait for? And, you know, when you, you, they, they, they lost badly, but, you know, two thirds of the vote went against it. So that, that was a big lesson, I think, for the city. And for me too. So
Speaker 2:David, I'm going to circle back to your Tennessee voices video podcast. I think that kind of creative project that you, uh, uh, with 102 episodes so far, right? I mean, that's phenomenal. This is probably an impossible question, but are there some standout moments or interviews or topics that have bubbled up through this creative project with Tennessee voices that you would, would hold up as a model or a talking point, uh, that really relates to living in this kind of polarized society right now? Is, are there any conversations or interviews that, that come to mind?
Speaker 4:Yes. Um, and I was asked a similar question a few days ago after I had published Carol hurdlers, uh, podcasts. And one that continues to be with me in, in a very powerful way and meaningful way was with a woman named Ellie Drescher. She is a grief counselor at alive hospice, and I had recorded the podcast with her in early April. So the pandemic was with us just for a few weeks. You know, I had had immersion Nashville officially in early March. We didn't know much about it. People were very scared. Um, and it was a very beautiful conversation because she told me how she talks to people, how families about death and dying, and in a way that wasn't scary in a way that was about, you know, this is a difficult time, but let's prepare ourselves. And she, I always ask guests, you know, what are the things that they like to do to help them cope? And she talked about making Mandelas, which are circles that come from the Hindu tradition and how that helps her center herself. And I'll always remember that because it was, it took me to a much better place, even though we were talking about this subject that was so challenging and something that I was not necessarily looking forward to speaking about, she made it so accessible because now it wasn't, we weren't talking about morbid things. We were talking about really, we were talking about love. We were talking about kindness. We were about trying to do our best in a challenging time. Uh, even though it hurts badly. And I still, to this day, that's the one that stayed, that gives me goosebumps still. And there are many other conversations too, that I've really enjoyed, but that one in particular, because it was, it was the depth and also her serenity. Um, I think oftentimes, especially when we get in crisis mode or are nervous, you know, we're not able to keep our composure, but she, every day has to have these conversations and has learned, you know, how to say things that people are finding difficult to hear. Um, a couple of other conversations I've had, uh, there was a political candidate here. We've been talking a lot about systemic racism on the podcast, um, over the last several months. Uh, and oftentimes the conversation talks about, you know, Confederate monuments or racism, and she turned it around on me. She said, yes, that's true. But there are also a lot of people who fought against racism and who fought for liberation and who are fighting to create a better life. And we can't forget those either in this conversation. And that's one of the realities that she wants to get to. And it really was, it was a wonderful time because when, when guests especially surprised me or turned the tables on me, that's actually kind of fun because, um, uh, it gets me to think differently. Uh, and as I prepare, I usually record these conversations a few weeks before they actually run. Um, and, and, you know, every time, you know, it's, it's just, it's just, uh, you learn about people. And I think when I asked them about what they like to do with making the Mandelas or people talk about taking a walk or reading a certain piece of literature, even watching tiger King of all things, you know, they open themselves up, they let themselves be vulnerable. Um, which I think is really important. Uh, I think that, to me, that's been the big, the biggest gift of this podcast is that people who ordinarily would be somebody out on, you know, in, in their job have now given me permission to talk to them about what's keeping them healthy. Uh, and, and that's why this is so important to me too, because it's keeping me healthy. Um, I'm, I'm very much a person who likes to be out among people and with people, uh, and especially the first few months when we were literally pretty much shut in, um, that was really, really tough. And while I have a family here, uh, you know, it's only a little, my husband and there's only so much you can get enjoy, you know, sometimes chihuahuas can, can grate on you a little bit then, so you get to learn, learn how to be kind with the little, little ones. Um, but that that's been, that's been meaningful to me.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I think, um, th this idea of being vulnerable in communication with someone that you, you talked about interviewing a grief counselor, um, in, in, in sort of being jarred into a place of vulnerability and openness, it was refreshing, you know, um, that, that brings to mind for me, the idea of, of honesty, um, projecting truth from within to your without and, and back and backwards. Um, and it gets back a little bit to this idea of a coordinated attack on, on the integrity of the media, uh, the integrity of the community processes. You know, one thing that I, I have a fear of right now is, is the lack of faith in our voting process. And, um, with that, uh, you know, front and center right now in all of our lives on this, on this national level, um, I was wondering your thoughts on, on the media's role in, in promoting or highlighting how the voting process can be an honest thing in event that happens with integrity.
Speaker 4:It's a great question, especially now. And one of the things that has, um, men be very optimistic is that many journalists are using this opportunity to be a very aggressive and passionate fact checkers for whatever claims, whether it's the president or whether it's someone else who makes a particular claim, you know, is it true? And if not, why, if so, why? Um, and it's been really challenging, especially in an environment where social media is so pervasive. You know, Facebook has recently made some major changes to how it addresses advertising, how it addresses, uh, organizations like Q Anon or others. And, and I've, I've been briefed actually by Facebook executives. So I've had, had firsthand knowledge of how they're doing it. And I understand what a lot of people are skeptical because they have not enforced these rules in the past, and they have let a lot of things slide. Um, but rather than say, well, we don't like you, you know, I think it's an opportunity for us to partner with them to say, how do we make this better? Um, and we have to, because we truly believe in this democratic system, uh, I would say it goes back to the very local level as well. Uh, I asked, you know, a few years ago, so I, I do a lot of work on electoral politics for forum and democracy. Uh, and in 2016, after the president was elected, he committed to stressing out voter fraud, created this commission, all this mid, all this fanfare, the commission was around for only a few months, because the premise of it was false, that the premise was that there's rampant voter fraud. And in fact, even in surveys of, uh, elections, officer's like secretaries of States, no one could, no one could determine that actually happened. You know, there was speculation, but there was no proof. Uh, and I went back, I've written a lot about that. And I went back also to say, we've got to ask our local officials, do you not believe in your own system? You know? And so I'm asking those questions. Uh, I've interviewed the secretary of state of Tennessee. I've interviewed, um, people who are in elections commissions, uh, to ask them that precise question, do you not believe in your system? And if not, why all of them to, to this point have believed in their system. They believe it works. Um, you know, where the differences are, are in terms like voter suppression. I use it, uh, perhaps a little bit more liberally than others, because I truly believe that exists. Um, you know, laws that have been created to make it more difficult to, for people to go to the polls. There are work arounds, but I often remind people, you know, I'm in a position of privilege where I can take a day off to go vote about one or two other people can't, you know, and you know, the question of ID, you know, it, it sounds easy, but it's not as easy as you want. When I got my license in Tennessee and took four hours waiting, I had the luxury of time I was on vacation, you know, uh, most people don't, especially now, if you're an essential worker, when do you do that? And then you also have to balance homeschool if the talents, you know, trying to pay the bills, all these other things. And, um, you know, I, I, I do think it's important to make sure that the person who's voting is in fact, the actual voter, but there are ways to do it, uh, that are more effective. And what I found actually is that as we look at all 50 States and there, there is, we have an honest selection system. We really do. Uh, we've created these, these checks and balances, and even in a place, I can speak more to Tennessee, of course, cause I live here, but you have your local election commission, you have your secretary of state, and then you also have several monitors, like the legal women voters, like the American civil liberties union, like other organizations that ensure that things are being done as they should, that examined the data. It looked for anomalies. Uh, and that's important too, because you know, are mistakes possible. Absolutely. I will tell you, I lived in Florida during the whole hanging CHADS, uh, debacle of you remember that, uh, it was in Fort Myers, Florida, and they, that part of the state didn't have the problems that the Miami area did and Palm Springs, Palm beach pregnant. Uh, but, um, but it was still was, it was, it was embarrassing for Florida because it was one of those things, like why can't you manage your elections? And it was a great question and it caused new technology to come in. I'll tell you some of the things that I am happy about in recent years. Um, and I dunno how, how they do it in Colorado, but they finally have come a paper ballot. That's in addition to the, the, uh, machine, you vote on your, your electronic machine, your computer, and then you put in a paper record and it records what you voted in and you put it in. And that way, if anybody has a question, there needs to be a recount. For some reason, you can now compare those votes to what the computer says. Um, those things are, um, you know, one of the things that also makes me hopeful is that, uh, none of the computers of the, the, uh, voting machines are connected to the internet. So it's not like someone could come in and hack you, um, because they're not connected to a network. Um, and those are other things that we help explain this to people, you know? And so the difficulty for it now that we have is there's so much confusion because of the messages from the president because of the, um, court cases that have gone on in this state and elsewhere. So for example, in Texas, uh, where my parents live, you know, there, uh, the governor went to limit, um, voting boxes where you returned your, your meal and, or your absentee ballot to just one per County. I mean, Texas is an enormous state. I mean, that becomes a transportation issue then for some people, uh, and the basically said, no, you can't do that. So in some cases, the court is siding with what I think are the people who are really trying to expand access. Um, that's really going to be our challenge over the next couple of years. Number one. So we had this question in the vice presidential debate about whether, uh, the president would, uh, and I don't mean to fill the air with the president. I certainly don't want to be disrespectful to you or to him. Uh, but I only say it because this is the news that we're in right now, but, you know, the vice president was asked, will you accept a peaceful transfer of power? I was very disappointed by the answer because the answer should have been, yes. You know, if I lose, I will accept if I win, you know, my opponent should accept that's our system. And, um, uh, you know, there have been cases of fraud over the years, you know, famously Lyndon Johnson when he was running for Senate, had that box that apparently was withheld from votes. You know, we, we I'm from Chicago originally. So we have all sorts of jokes about how voting happens there. Um, but ultimately the main thing is to constantly be vigilant. Uh, we can never, we can never lose our focus because when we do, and we start to wonder what happened to our democracy, but where were you to fight for it because these things don't happen on their own, and it happens by how you vote and also how you act in between those boats, you know, did you push policies that were favorable to your position? And if you haven't gone to a city council meeting or a school board meeting, then maybe you should, you know, that's an opportunity to help direct some of that really important policy,
Speaker 2:But I think we're gonna wrap up. I, um, um, I joke that sometimes so far in this new podcast endeavor, I ask, um, banana split questions where things are kind of stacked on top of one another, but one of the things I'm so impressed by who you are your work. Um, and we, we share some, some friends in common in Nashville, which is where I went to college at Belmont university where the, uh, the last, uh, president presidential debate will happen here in a few days as we're recording this. But one final question today for me is, uh, you've talked about how you really believe in the promise of, of the American Republic and our democratic values. So I'd like to close today by just asking what is keeping hope alive for you in these days, uh, and keeping that belief in our American Republic and democratic values going.
Speaker 4:I think the basic answer for me is the people that I encounter every day, who are helping each other, um, whether it's the tornadoes that hit Nashville and you had an, this array of volunteers go out and help people recover their life, uh, whether you have people working together and a black lives matter mute or mural on a street in Nashville or people coming to try to understand a very complicated issue. Um, I, I find tremendous acts of charity and philanthropy every single day. Uh, you know, we've when we get too wrapped up into the new cycle or the punditry, it distracts us from that. And in fact, there's so many wonderful, good people, you know, who, and even when I have those moments, cause I do have those moments where I just want to punch a wall. Uh, and I find, you know, face for me is a very important part of my own. Um, you know, I would say one of the things that has been most meaningful to me, uh, over the last year has been reading to a little boy at a school, um, a local public school. And unfortunately I had to stop because of the pandemic, but I look forward to it every Wednesday and we would read together and draw together. And I have a little drawing that he made for me that, uh, says, I love my reading buddy. Uh, we grew together. So my refrigerator, uh, and it's a reminder to me that those small kind acts, you know, are reciprocal. You know, we, I, I benefit from it as much as he did for me. He had an adult and paid attention to him and I had a child who really opened my heart. And those are the things that make me very hopeful and I'm hope hoping that I can do that again, you know, as soon as it's safe to do so, but yeah, I'm very optimistic and, uh, but also very realistic when it comes to the fact that we have to be vigilant and, and have to be strong and loving to each other and kind, um, and I think we're going to get out of this much better than we were before, because I don't want things to go back to what they were before, because not everything was great before the pandemic. Um, the fact that I'm talking to my siblings multiple times a week when I might've talked to them once or twice a year, you know, those kinds of things where you realize that connection matters. Uh, and, uh, and that's what we need to be. We need more of that. And, um, and I certainly have my own political views of where things should go, but, but, uh, I'll just end that, that we all benefit when we respect strong democratic institutions and when we value the truth. And when we listen to each other,
Speaker 2:Clauses is the opinion and engagement director for the USA today, network Tennessee, David, we are so grateful that you said yes to this conversation today. We admire your work from afar. You can check out David Plaza's work via the tennesseean.com. He also is the host of Tennessee voices video podcast. David, thank you.
Speaker 4:Thank you, Andrew and David, this has been a pleasure and thank you for having
Speaker 2:Me. Thank you very much.[inaudible] life is a production of pine street church in Boulder, Colorado hosted by Andrew Doherty and David[inaudible]. The podcast is produced by Phil Norman and executive producer, Alexi Molden special thanks to our guests today and the Leal Hill trust of Boulder, Colorado.[inaudible].