Little Songs for Citizens with Jon Guerra

Our God is a songwriter who inspires us to praise Him with music. Christian recording artist Jon Guerra aims to use his musical talents to inspire others to spiritual meditation. He stops by to discuss his motivations and inspirations, the story behind this podcast's theme song,  and his and his wife's contributions to the films of director Terrence Malick. Also in this episode: We find out whether Chicago or Austin has better food.

Links for this episode:
Jon's official website
Twitter
Facebook
Instagram
Keeper of Days  audio album
Keeper of Days visual album
A Hidden Life trailer

Transcript

Jon Guerra: 0:07

[MUSIC PLAYS] I have a heart full of questions quieting all my suggestions. What is the meaning of Christian in this American life? I'm feeling awfully foolish spending my life on a message. I look around and I wonder ever if I heard it right.[MUSIC ENDS]

Amy Mantravadi: 0:28

Welcome to the(A)Millennial podcast, where we have theological conversations for today's world. I'm your host, Amy Mantravadi, coming to you live from Dayton, Ohio, former home of The Midget Theater. Yes, I know it's impolite to use that word for those with forms of dwarfism, but that was the actual name of an early movie theater in Dayton, a true nickelodeon where you paid a few cents to watch a film. It received its name because the manager was a little person by the name of Sherman Potterf. With his average sized brother, Benjamin, Sherman leased a building downtown and held a grand opening in 1913 for a"home of quality photo plays." The slogan that was used in advertisements was,"Nothing small about The Midget- only the manager." Of course, in our present era, it's hard to imagine a little person naming their theater with a derogatory slur, but in that time it was evidently not considered derogatory enough to bother Sherman. The brothers sold their theater business in 1917,and today the building stands in a state of disrepair, but ready for a new buyer who can fix it up and make it a home for a restaurant, store, or artist's studio. I think it's kind of awesome that a hundred years ago, someone who looked different was able to be the manager of a business and also serve as a touring performer for another company. If the world looks down and you, friends, don't let it get you down. You can accomplish great things. It is perhaps appropriate that I opened with an anecdote loosely related to the arts, because my guest today is a talented performer: Jon Guerra. He has released albums individually and in connection with his wife, Valerie, and his work is intended to draw people into meditation upon spiritual truths. John's first solo album, Little Songs, displayed his desire to offer up little songs to the Lord as prayers. One of the songs off his most recent album,"Citizens," is the theme song for this podcast. But my connection to this couple goes back a very long way. Valerie and I were friends growing up. We attended the same church and school. Our families went on trips together and were a regular presence in each other's lives. It's been really special to watch God bring Valerie and John together and allow them to make beautiful music. As you know if you're a regular listener, I like to open each show by reading a scripture passage that is relevant to the day's discussion. Today, I'll be reading Psalm 33 verses one through five."Sing for joy in the Lord, you righteous ones. Praise is becoming to the upright. Give thanks to the Lord with the lyre. Sing praises to him with a harp of ten strings. Sing to him a new song. Play skillfully with a shout of joy, for the word of the Lord is right, and all his work is done in faithfulness. He loves righteousness and justice. The earth is full of the goodness of the Lord." It's so wonderful to think that the Lord created music and has ordained that we should use it to praise him. Now let's head on to the interview and find out how Jon is using his musical talents for the glory of God. I apologize in advance for the poor audio on my end of the conversation.

Jon Guerra: 3:21

[MUSIC PLAYS]

Amy Mantravadi: 3:34

And I'm here with Christian recording artist Jon Guerra, whose song"Citizens" is the theme song of this podcast. He was educated at Moody Bible Institute for his bachelor's degree, and after that he formed the indie progressive rock group Milano with his wife, or maybe future wife at the time, and a few of their friends. He was a member of the Vertical Worship Band. He's toured with Amy Grant and Vince Gill's Christmas at the Ryman in 2015 and 2016. He formed the group Praytell with his wife Valerie in 2017, and they've worked on a number of things over the years. And the two of them composed additional music for the film A Hidden Lfe that came out just within the past year or two here. His albums include two he released with Milano. Then in 2013, he released the album Hue under the name JAGUERRA. Then he had his first EP, which was Glass, in 2014, his full-length album, Little Songs in 2015. Also in 2015, he released It's Almost Christmas with his wife, Valerie. In 2017, he released an EP called Working Demos 2, and he's made various contributions over the years to the albums of the Vertical Worship Band. In 2018, he and Valerie, as the group Praytell, released It's Almost Christmas Volume Two, and then last year he released the album Keeper of Days. And you can find him on Twitter and Instagram@iamjonguerra and on Facebook@jonguerramusic. Well, Jon, it's so great to have you on the podcast. Thanks for coming on.

Jon Guerra: 5:23

Thanks for having me, Amy. Good to see ya.

Amy Mantravadi: 5:25

Well, I know that recently you've moved from Chicago, where you were for many years, to Austin. So the first question I naturally have to ask you is, who has the better food scene, Chicago or Austin?

Jon Guerra: 5:40

Oh man. That's a tricky one. I got to say I'm partial to the Chicago culinary scene. Chicago does a few things very, very, very well. Austin does many things pretty well. Austin has amazing tacos as you would guess, being so close to the border, but what's cool about Austin food that I've found to be actually quite surprising and delightful is there's a lot of fusion. So there's this place that we discovered just a couple of weeks ago called TeaHaus 101, and it's a Korean taco place and it is...kimchi and Korean beef mixed with really hot like Mexican style salsas. I mean, it's just, there's really nothing like it. But Chicago, I don't know, maybe it's cause we were there for 10 years and the nostalgia is just hard to get over. Chicago is just- whether it's deep dish, you know, the kind of the people's Portillo's, or the super kind of nichey hipster dive cocktail bar, it just feels like- I don't know. It's hard. It's hard for me to betray my allegiance to Chicago food.

Amy Mantravadi: 7:03

Is it really pizza or is it a casserole? Tell me that.

Jon Guerra: 7:08

You're right. It's a cheese casserole with a little bit of bread.

Amy Mantravadi: 7:12

Well, it tastes pretty good, whatever you want to call it. Getting back to the main reason you're here, the past year or two have brought some big transitions for you. As I alluded to, you and Valerie became parents, you moved from Chicago to Austin, and you released your new album, Keeper of Days. What motivated your decision to move down to Texas and how have you changed as a musician and a person during this period?

Jon Guerra: 7:41

So we decided to move because- well, back up now four years ago, we met a director, a director named Terrence Malick, who was one of my favorite directors, and we met him through a really good friend of ours. And through the course of a few just random opportunities that were kind of forwarded to us through that relationship, and really just the kindness of God, we were able to start working with him for A Hidden Life- for a film that was released this past year. And we were flying back and forth from Chicago to Austin quite a bit, and when that movie wrapped up, we were invited to work on his next film and he's based- like I said, he's based in Austin. And we thought, well, we're going to have a baby. We're going to move out of our apartment. We felt like we were at a time in our lives where we were up for kind of a transition. We'd been in Chicago for so long and we felt like some of the seasons that we were in, both vocational seasons and maybe ministry and some of that stuff, was- we just felt kind of released from and felt like God was gonna be closing the doors and just ending a season for us. And we thought,"Well, now's as good a time as ever. Why don't we... I've got this thing in Austin, I'm releasing an album. I can release an album anywhere because I'm just going to be based wherever I am. And then touring, why don't we just move to Austin work on this movie? Try to escape the winter for the length of the movie and Winslow, our baby girl,can just be raised in Texas for a bit?" So we decided to do it, and we got to Austin, I think about like 15 days before the lockdown- before everything shut down. So it was perfect timing for making friends and getting to know a town. We weren't able to move into any sort of housing situation, so we actually- our dear friend who is down here gave us his place for as long as it took for us to find a place, and he moved in a friend's guest room. Talk about kindness of a friend. And yeah, because of COVID, it was a little slow going, but we found a place that's kind of perfect for us and moved in a few months later. Yeah. We've been here for about a year. How have we changed? Oh my goodness. Haven't we all changed this past year? Haven't we been affected? I think probably the biggest thing for me has been a little bit of a personal perspective change. I was planning on being on the road, supporting that new album, touring for at least half of the year, and all of that got canceled and it was a big deal, cause you know, a lot of our majority of our income at the time came through touring. While that was- it was definitely like a bit of a scramble, like,"Okay, let's figure some other things out." God was insanely kind to us, and you know, we were always- every month was great and he took care of us, But also, I can't believe how quickly I would have traded the first year of Winslow's life for just a handful of shows, and I mean that with almost like with almost a bit of fearful trembling, because I think it takes us all a little bit of time to adjust to the new vocation of parenthood and being a mother or a father. Some people may be quicker. Some people are looking forward to it from the time they're like 15."I just can't wait to be whatever." That was never me and that was never in my wife. And we love our baby girl so much. For me, as just a dad, I feel like I have been given the chance to grow into my vocation of fatherhood this year in a way that I would have never been able to, just because of the restraints of my other vocation, which is making art for God and the necessary touring that goes along with that. So that's probably the biggest thing for me, and it's a daily reminder because you can come to terms with your vocation, both in like a grateful way with a way that kind of- you're sort of following joy and pleasure the way you and I do with writing or do with music. There's obviously toil that goes along with it, but it's like- it's kind of the Eric Lidell. Like I feel God's pleasure when I write and when I finish a song and there is that certainly with fatherhood, but then there's also the humbly submitting to,"Okay, it's 6:15, and she's not supposed to be up for another hour, but she's up, so here we go." And there's a holiness. I think that comes through just like an acceptance of that as like,"No, this is actually God requiring something of me now. This isn't just something that's interrupting my schedule. This is actually the Lord. Yeah. Calling me through the voice of a little baby in the other room." Yeah, I definitely wouldn't have had that perspective a year ago. I probably would've waxed eloquent about something that had nothing to do with actual fatherhood.

Amy Mantravadi: 12:38

No, I very much understand because, as you know, my husband and I have also become parents in this past year, and he was expecting that he'd spend a couple weeks of vacation at the beginning to be home with me, and then he'd have to go back to work. And as it turned out, he went back to work for two weeks and then he's been working from home ever since. So he's been here for a lot of our son Thomas's growing up over this first year that he just wouldn't have been. I mean, he would have seen him in the evenings and on the weekends and everything, but it's different, because now every time he goes to the bathroom, he can just pop his head in and say hello and see whatever is happening, and it does really cause you to reflect in different ways. And then for me becoming a mother, like you said, with the artistic process, such as it is with the writing, you know, sometimes you'll put the baby down for a nap and you're like,"Okay, maybe I'll get an hour here...maybe." And you have enough time to make yourself some tea and sit down and write one page, and all of a sudden the baby's up and-"You're not supposed to be up for another half an hour yet!""Oh...Too bad!" You know?

Jon Guerra: 13:53

Yeah, exactly.

Amy Mantravadi: 13:53

And I have really had to check my attitude a lot of times and say,"Hold on, what is the most important here? Is it this stupid page that I'm writing or my son?" Well, it's just because your expectation was one way and then it got taken another way, but man, there's probably nothing on earth that reveals your own selfishness to you as much as becoming a parent. Becoming a wife or a husband certainly does that to a certain extent, but even with a wife or a husband, they're usually respectful of some of your free time- giving you time to work on your process, because if for nothing else that they want their own free time as well. But you know, kids- when they need you, they just need you. So I think certainly God has designed all these seasons in life to teach us so much about himself. And I'll just say on a personal note as well, if Terrence Malick ever said,"Can you just drop everything and work on this movie with me?" I would be very tempted to say yes as well. It will never happen for me, but it happened for you. I could understand why that seems like a pretty great opportunity. So you and your wife, Valerie have worked together a lot on your music over the years, as I was mentioning in the introduction. I suspect that would be easier for some married couples than others. So how did the two of you make your collaboration work?

Jon Guerra: 15:28

So we met collaborating. Somebody invited us to play music together in college and she was playing violin. I was playing guitar. And as the story goes, I asked her if she would like to work on some of my songs and it was kind of a ploy to just be able to get some alone time with her. I didn't have the courage to just outright say,"Will you go out with me?" So I had the little sneak attack of working on music. I also did want to work on music, cause she's actually an incredible musician- still is. And so I think our relationship from day one was always kind of working on things together, and then we were in bands and then we did long distance, which felt like a kind of collaboration of schedules and- like right before we got married. And yeah, I don't know. That piece- I'm grateful it's never been too difficult. I think we're both- we both really enjoy, I guess, projects and working on things long-term, and we both enjoyed being very scrappy and working through the night to get something done and there's never one pulling the other along and being like,"Oh, we gotta..." You know, we're both just kind of- we just enjoy, I guess, being scrappy and maybe even a little entrepreneurial, so that feels like a gift to us. And probably the biggest collaboration is obviously Winslow our daughter at this point, and it's wild how many things carry over from- whether collaborating on a tour, on a concert, on an album, on movie. It feels very, very sweet to feel like we have a partner in each other.

Amy Mantravadi: 17:15

Well, I mean, I'm so glad that that's been able to work because it's produced such great fruit, and as you say, has now produced a daughter as well. But certainly, I'm sure- I try to say,"What would it be like if my husband and I were doing the same job together?" And I think on a certain level, I'm sure we could make it work because we just know each other so well, and we know how to handle each other's moods, but on another level I'm like,"Wow, I don't know if we could make that work." But I don't know. Maybe we'll see if God ever gives us a chance to investigate if that works or not. I think for now we'll stick to our separate spheres. Your song"Citizens," which is the theme song of this podcast, addresses the issue of immigration by comparing it to the way that Christ invites us into his kingdom and makes us citizens of it. In addition to this broader message, it's clear that you're also communicating something about how Christians should engage politically. Could you talk about what inspired you to write this song and what you hope to communicate through it?

Jon Guerra: 18:25

Yeah. So what inspired the song really was- it was a feeling. So all of my songs typically start with like a state of mind or a state of heart that I then try to figure out through my songs. Very few of them start with,"This is what I want to communicate. This is my thesis," and then I go. It's very much letting the song tell me what it wants to be and sort of guiding it through the grid of,"Does this lyric that I just wrote or does this melody with this lyric seem, I guess, consistent with the experience that I'm having as a person with regards to this issue or this experience?" With that song in particular, it was a period of years: I would say probably 2015 through 2017. And this had been coming to a head for awhile where it felt as though political allegiance was beginning to usurp, I guess, allegiance to Christ, or at least it seemed to me that in our churches and I- around that time, I was touring quite a bit. I'd probably sing a hundred evangelical churches a year, for a couple of years at a time. And I was noticing just sometimes, very explicitly, like from the stage or whatever, but mostly in conversations with people either after the concert or before the concert or just out to eat, anytime politics would come up, there was just this tinge of what seemed to me like self-righteous vitriol or a hatred towards anybody that was really disagreeing or anybody that was Democrat. It felt like,"What's going on here?" Like at first, you know, it's kind of funny. Somebody says a little jab comment, but after a while, it's like, every time politics comes up, it's just like this other thing takes over. And it's like, how do we feel justified in having this posture towards our- even if these people are our enemies, let's say best case scenario, these are our enemies. Where in the world do we find the backing to- self justification to feel much less act this way towards people that are politically different than us. And oftentimes it was through the guise of,"Well, Western civilization is at stake." You know, it was through the guise of,"Well, if we don't do this, we don't make these alliances, if we don't then the country's going to hell in a hand basket," or it was just these very, very lofty ideals and these really- it was moral. I realized that a lot of people were saying this is a moral issue. Therefore, morally I'm obligated to make these allegiances and make and take this kind of stance and take this posture. You know, it got to the point where friends- close friends, people that I probably would have had in my wedding had I known them when I got married, fellow worship leaders, pastors at my church- were just outright getting kind of behind what felt like a nationalistic Christian- Christian nationalism is being thrown around a lot right now, but the themes of that have been growing for the past several years. And I just felt it when I felt my friends, not really seeing or not really, I guess, having any issue with this kind of discourse or this kind of political engagement. I just- I got really sad. I got really kind of troubled and angry, but underneath that, it was like,"I thought we were all- we all grew up together. Didn't we all agree this is secondary? That this is actually secondary to another kingdom- that we're on the same page here. And I was going to d church at the time, and my pastor joined Donald Trump's evangelical council of pastors, so he was a pretty prominent leader at the time. He's no longer in ministry, my former pastor. And that was kind of like,"Wait, what's going on here?" Take all that and then combine it with, my wife is a social worker and we collaborate a lot, like we just talked about, but something that we don't collaborate in is she spent almost a decade working with refugees in Chicago and working with inner city schools and starting music groups for refugee victims of trauma in Chicago. And when you work with people in that socioeconomic spot in our country, you get rewired a little bit, and you can't really tolerate the blanket characterizations of people in that spot in life. You can't really tolerate that. And when you feel that one candidate or one kind of perspective stereotypically kind of characterizes people in that spot and that way, it just becomes very distasteful. So that was kind of everything that was going on around the time, and it all kind of bubbled up in prayer in January of 2017. And my process as a writer and as a songwriter, I feel called to make art for God and to God. So I feel less called to kind of call Christians out or to be preacher or shake people by the collar. I feel more called to vicariously experience the world and my faith, and then bring that experience back to God in a way that hopefully other Christians can join in, with and through. And I just call that devotional music. I call my songs devotional songs for that reason. So this was kind of like the first time I'd ever brought those questions and those feelings and that confusion and that anger and that sadness, and that really honest,"I'm just confused here because I- Am I wrong? I'm happy to be wrong, but just please God, help me understand what's happening here when it feels like the embassy of heaven, which is the Church, is somehow no longer the embassy of heaven: it feels like it's the embassy for something else." And I guess I use that analogy because I- first of all, that's just kind of what came out naturally and I always try to pay attention to what sort of comes from the subconscious, but I kind of wanted it to be a little bit of a transgressive rendering. The parables in their own day and age in their own context were pretty transgressive. They were pretty culturally transgressive in terms of what Christ was encouraging people to consider both about him and about God. And it it felt appropriate, so that's where that song kind of came from.

Amy Mantravadi: 25:12

Well, thanks for sharing a lot of the background about that, and I'll just share with you a little bit about why I chose that song to be the theme of this podcast, just besides the fact that I liked the idea of using something for your music, both because I know you and I really love your music, and also just the- even apart from the words, the musical line in that song works so well as a little brief snippet into the podcast, but I have been going on a similar journey over the past few years. And you know, this is called the(A)Millennial podcast, and I think that a lot of Christians of the millennial generation are going through the same circumstance of being raised in evangelicalism and a certain culture that in many ways has also been linked to a certain set of political values, many of which I haven't rejected. And just for example, a lot of aspects of the pro-life movement: I still consider myself very much pro-life, so because of that, there are certain elements of the progressive political agenda that are just kind of anathema to me for that reason. But at the same time, seeing really troubling things happening in the other direction, and a lot of hypocrisy, I think, is the big thing. Seeing the way people talked in the nineties, versus how they're talking now- the same people- and seeing, yeah, people you grow up with, the kinds of things they're posting on social media, crazy conspiracy theories and stuff that seems to show not a lot of trust in God's sovereignty and seems to suggest an allegiance more to the kingdom of this world than the kingdom of God. And while not in any way putting myself forward as a supreme example of righteousness, because it's possible to get very self-righteous in the other direction as well- You know, feeling self-righteous in comparison to the"self-righteous people." I feel that in general, if Christians ever start feeling too at home in any one political location or with any one political party, something maybe is wrong because our ultimate longing and desires should be for a perfect king, who is Jesus Christ, and no human being is ever gonna be able to fill those shoes, so we should be able to pick out flaws and places where human beings are coming up short, and that doesn't mean we're being cynical or hypercritical. It just means that we realize that no human being can fill the shoes of Jesus Christ. So we need to be careful and remember what the Bible says to put not our faith in princes. So I appreciate what- your song, because it was clear that you were wrestling with a lot of these things, and like you, I don't have any perfect answers at this point. And yeah, sometimes I wonder if I'm wrong or I hope that I'm wrong. Events have not really suggested to me that I'm wrong on many occasions in this regard, especially recent events. So I appreciate you talking about that, and I think it does- so many people I've talked to who are of this generation are feeling the same way, very confused by wanting to carry on that way of- a Christian way of thinking about politics, but being concerned about maybe a wider variety of issues, or at least not wanting to so demonize the other side that we can't even have a conversation anymore. So yeah, I really appreciate that. Moving on, you've been involved in performing music in several different settings: for Sunday worship gatherings and performance with other Christian artists, in completely secular settings, and then recording for private listening. How does your mindset shift when you're performing in those different circumstances, particularly Christian versus secular or when you're performing actually in a worship service versus in a concert or something along those lines?

Jon Guerra: 29:49

Yeah, no, that's a good question. It shifts quite a bit. All of those are- well, some people have two mindsets. Some people say,"You just do your thing. Doesn't matter who's in the crowd." I'm a little bit more- I guess I feel that my job is to kind of facilitate connection, at least generally Sunday morning worship maybe. Well, maybe it's a version of that: facilitating a connection with God between all the people. You know, a passion of mine and hope of mine is that my music would be palatable to the degree that it makes sense to be palatable without losing its with its essence. It would be palatable to people who don't share my beliefs or share my faith. And by that, I mean 0 I guess I try to be as sincere and sincerely devoted to God in a way without using Christianese for instance, or without appealing to the lowest common denominator ways of connecting with a crowd, making some kind of Bible joke or some Awana joke: something that would be very nichey. Made that mistake, I think a few times early on, and then I found out that there was people in the crowd that had come to our concert from- who'd heard us from Praytell, which is kind of our main, our kind of our secular band that got us- our non-Christian devotional music. Somebody had heard us at a club and then come and seen us at a church because they heard we were coming back to town and I kind of code switched a little bit. And they were in town and something in my spirit felt like,"Man, did I say something that maybe I wouldn't have said at a different context?" And I don't think I necessarily did. I didn't regret- I didn't say anything that I think I need to do feel bad about, but it was more like I should really just try to find that middle ground as much as I can to try to speak to everyone that I know is going to be listening. But you know, naturally that changes when I'm- as a worship leader, I feel very much like my job is to kind of bring a little bit of the aesthetic, emotional timbre to the liturgy, whatever that liturgy is. I go to a little bit more of a liturgical church now here in Austin, a PCA church, and everything is in service of the liturgy really, and the sermon and it's beautiful. I really enjoy it. Obviously when I'm in a club or a non-Christian venue, I will try to just be in that setting what I'm supposed to be, which is entertaining and sincere. And people come up to me afterwards, they often do and say,"Hey, that song you sang called'Stained Glass Windows,' tell me more about that." And I remember chatting with a girl who was very- she'd had several drinks by the time she was talking to me in San Francisco about'Stained Glass Windows' and how much that song meant to her, and she didn't know why. And it was just- it was awesome. I felt very much like,"This is beautiful. This is what it's about."

Amy Mantravadi: 33:05

Are there any Christian figures who have particularly influenced you in your spiritual life or books and music that have been especially inspirational for you?

Jon Guerra: 33:16

Yeah, I would say poets actually influence me more than musicians or songwriters. Practically, I love old sixties folk like Dylan, Simon and Garfunkel. I love wordy folk music, but in terms of spiritual and artistic influence, George Herbert, the 17th century priest and poet from England- he has a book of poetry called The Temple, which I've read cover to cover at least dozens of times. I mean, I don't go a week without reading it, at least a poem, and the style can be a hair clunky. You just kind of have to click into that style a little bit. He's a contemporary of John Donne and it's just astounding, both ideas wise, structurally the way he plays with the English language. But he was a pastor and he wrote his poems I guess when he wasn't doing pastoral things and he died before any of his poems were published, and he's one of the most revered poets in the English language now. And something about him working on his poems to God, this masterwork of English poetry, in absolute obscurity and then dying before they're published is a very beautiful story to me, and then seeing the vibrancy and just absolute burning with the love of God. Yeah. It's enormously inspirational to me. So I had to pick one, I would say, George Herbert.

Amy Mantravadi: 34:50

Well, thank you for that recommendation. I'm going to have to go out and read some of his poems and yeah, that's a good point I think, about- maybe even a good American example would be someone like Emily Dickinson who was virtually unknown during her life, and then afterwards- I mean, she wasn't maybe as much of a strong Christian as George Herbert was, but it does sort of remind you that we can't always know how the different things we do in our life are gonna affect eternity or affect future generations. And sometimes we think the things we do that get a lot of attention are the important things, when actually there are things that seem more mundane to us that actually are the things God's going to use a lot more long-term, so thank you. That's interesting to hear. I always like to hear how people have been influenced by those who have gone before, because knowing how I personally have been influenced in much the same way by other writers, you learn a lot about people when you find out who their influences are. We've mentioned a couple of times that you were recently able to contribute some music for the film A Hidden Life from director Terrence Malick. How did you come to be involved in that project? You talked a little bit about it, but maybe you can give us a bit more explanation and what was it like to work on something for a film?

Jon Guerra: 36:16

So, like I said, it was a connection through a dear friend of ours and we really had no business working on music for a movie, but they were looking for some very particular type of music and we were able to kind of deliver that for them. And really what we contributed mostly was reductions- what were called shadows. So like orchestral reductions, so like large pieces by Bruckner or Bach, or you name it: we would take those large scale orchestra pieces and make them small single, duo, or trio violin pieces. And the process was basically- it was very iterative and experimental and just trying a lot of things. We must have recorded two and a half hours of music. Obviously, not all of it made it, but the process of trying it and then seeing it behind footage and then getting feedback from Malick and the editors was just insanely fun. I mean, it was so different for us and we were flying to and forth from Austin and going in to the office to see how the music was working, and some of it was not working at all, and some of it was like,"Whoa, that really brings it to life!" So we're doing that same thing with this new movie and it's just- it's mainly very, very, very fun.

Amy Mantravadi: 37:49

Well, I've seen a few of his movies and it was a real delight to be able to go see that one in the theater. And first of all, I mean, it's such an incredible film. I'd encourage anyone who hasn't seen it, if you can sit for three hours, it's really worth it. I mean, his films are always so contemplative and he doesn't rush. He lets you sit and think about things. And it seems like particularly- I'm thinking now about the film he had done previously, The Tree of Life, and then with this one- in both of those, and I'm sure in some of his other films, the pieces of music that he chooses to bring in, in addition to the score- and the score for the film was written by the great film composer, James Newton Howard- but then, you know, he always brings in as a director, he brings in classical pieces and other things that- It seems like he himself has such a great appreciation for music and is very particular about which pieces he wants to bring in to help tell his story. So I just thought it was so awesome that you were able to work with him because even before seeing that film, I already had some knowledge of him as a director and the fact of how important music was to his films. So any clues as to the- or do I need to go to IMDb to find out what the next movie is about?

Jon Guerra: 39:22

Totally. So the next one- right now it's called The Last Planet, and this is all public knowledge. It's a film about Christ and Peter actually, so it's a period piece about Christ through the eyes of Peter, and it's just very, very tremendous. That's all I can say. The main editor lives very close to us and is a good friend of ours, and two nights ago we got to go over and just see a bunch of stuff that he was working on: him and another person from the movie and a couple of the people from the film. We do dinner with everybody like every Friday night, and after dinner last Friday, we went up and got to see some footage and it's just- it's cool. It'll be a long time though, and it'll probably be long.

Amy Mantravadi: 40:19

That's okay. I mean, especially if you have to wait a long time for it, you don't want it to be only 90 minutes long.

Jon Guerra: 40:27

Yeah, totally.

Amy Mantravadi: 40:27

So I'll be looking forward to that whenever it's coming out. People often look to Christian music artists as spiritual role models, for better or for worse. Do you think this is fair, and what responsibility do Christians in the performing arts have in this regard?

Jon Guerra: 40:46

No, I mean, I don't think it's fair necessarily. Fair: that's an interesting descriptor. I think it's like a necessary evil of just the- We live in a really weird time where celebrity just permeates everything: just that celebrity dynamic and whether that's,"Oh my goodness! I saw The Bachelorette at Starbucks!" and you feel whatever you feel- it's like that is just so dumb and just has nothing to do with the things that really matter in life, yet it kind of permeates everything. I think probably there's a little bit of responsibility that comes with just being aware of that. I have a good number of people that listen to my music at this point in my career and understanding that and seeing that for what it is- trying to, I guess, dismantle or I guess reject the sort of maybe deference that I might get in certain situations. I actively try to kind of fight against that to the best of my knowledge, and then seeing it as a little bit of a, for better or for worse- it is a responsibility that, you know, maybe there's a 14-year-old kid like me- like I was when I was 14 and the way I looked up to my heroes or whatever- my musical heroes, I guess. And seeing that as a very weighty thing, whether it's legitimate or not. When we hear about people who fall from ministry because of some moral thing, I mean, it has ripple effects, whether it should or not, and realizing that to whatever small degree, there's probably some stranger out there that if I were to really betray my message or my perceived message, it would have ripple effects in ways that I don't even realize. And not that that's why I don't do certain- I mean, hopefully I want to live a certain way because of what it means for God and for my immediate family and friends, but I do take that seriously. I do take that- just because I've been hurt in that way from people that I've looked up to that have then disappointed me in pretty serious ways. But I also think that listeners need to realize that Christian artists are and performing artists, especially- it's a lot of entertainers out there. It's an industry and people get into it because they can make a buck. And it's not always bad. Some people are good at-you know, Christians need entertainment too, I guess. I mean, if I had it my way, there would probably be no Christian entertainment, but thank goodness I'm not in charge. But just people to realize that we are, I guess, not always as pure as we'd like to be, I suppose, but I do think there is a responsibility whether or not it's- we all have influence, I guess, and I think influence is a responsibility, however, small.

Amy Mantravadi: 44:03

Yeah. I really appreciate that answer because I think that the issue goes two ways. There's an importance for those who are in any kind of position of spiritual influence and, for better or for worse, the Christian musician or a Christian writer or a famous pastor- You do have some of that influence. So there's a responsibility to live up to the values that you're pushing, but on the other side, people also need to understand that we're not to put people on this kind of pedestal where we think of them no longer as- well, okay, like I was talking about earlier with politicians and- no longer as fallible human beings, but as some kind of superhero or something. We need to realize that. And I think it's clear in a lot of your music that you're a person who's asking a lot of these spiritual questions, just the same as everybody else. And the point of the artist is not to give people an example of how to be perfect, but maybe to teach people how to question well, to invite people, to come alongside them in the spiritual journey, and I think that your music does a really good job of that. But it's something that I would be curious to ask any Christian artists, just because I think there is a lot of pressure from people's expectations, and then you do see famous- you'll hear about some Christian artist from your youth who now says they're not a Christian anymore, and it really shakes people. They're like,"Oh, is any if that real if so and so..." And it's like,"Well, what were you thinking? I mean, this person was a 20-year-old, basically a kid when you were listening to them get up there and p lays the drums. They never claimed to be a theologian on par with Augustine." But I think people's expectations can be kind of crazy, and like you said, our obsession with celebrity probably doesn't help at all either. So just to wrap things up, you've shared a little bit about what we can expect from you in the future with the movie that you're working on. Is there anything else that you have in the works? What are you hoping for when hopefully someday COVID will be over, or what are you hoping to do then?

Jon Guerra: 46:17

Yeah. Well, hoping to tour again. There's a connection that happens when you release an album and then you play that new album live in front of people that have been listening to it. There's a really cool connection that happens, and I've kind of been missing that. So I'm looking forward to that, hopefully post-COVID. And even before that, I do foresee in the near future releasing more music, so that my last- Keeper of Days, there was five years in between albums. I'm not going to take another five years: I know that for sure. I might release- whether it's another album- probably not another album, but at least another set of songs in 2021- this year. So I'm just in a good rhythm here. Writing wise, my mornings are very sacred, I'm home, and a lot that's coming out.

Amy Mantravadi: 47:10

Well, that's good. We have something to look forward to in 2021. Anything we can look forward to and encourage us right now is a good thing. Well, Jon, thank you so much for taking the time to talk with me, and I hope our discussion is a blessing to a lot of people. Yeah, I hope so too.

Jon Guerra: 47:26

[MUSIC PLAYS] I need to know there is justice, that it will roll in abundance, and that you're building a city where we arrive as immigrants and you call us citizens and you welcome us as children home.[MUSIC ENDS]

Amy Mantravadi: 47:55

It was a real pleasure to speak with John. His latest effort, Keeper of Days, is available for digital streaming of both the audio and visual album. You can also visit the site, jonguerramusic.com for tour dates, merchandise, and other information. Of course, we all look forward to the end of the COVID pandemic when we can actually go to concerts again."The spirit and the bride say,'Come!' And let the one who hears say,'Come! And let one who is thirsty, come. Let the one who desires take the water of life without cost. He who testifies to these things says,'Yes, I am coming quickly.' Amen. Come Lord Jesus. The grace of the Lord Jesus be with all." Amen. Have a great week.

Jon Guerra: 48:39

[MUSIC PLAYS] Is there a way to live always living in enemy hallways? Don't know my foes from my friends and don't know my friends anymore. Power has several prizes. Handcuffs can come in all sizes. Love has a million disguises, but winning is simply not one.[MUSIC ENDS]