{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":5.04,"endTime":7.65,"body":"Welcome to"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":5.04,"endTime":7.65,"body":"yellow iron black smoke, your"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":7.65,"endTime":10.23,"body":"podcast for engaging"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":7.65,"endTime":10.23,"body":"conversation on construction"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":10.23,"endTime":13.47,"body":"equipment Economics and"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":10.23,"endTime":13.47,"body":"Management. I'm Michael Kelly,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":13.47,"endTime":17.76,"body":"your host. In today's episode,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":13.47,"endTime":17.76,"body":"Mike Forster and I have a far"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":17.76,"endTime":20.94,"body":"reaching conversation about core"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":17.76,"endTime":20.94,"body":"values and simplicity and the"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":20.94,"endTime":24.09,"body":"Silvertrek equipment boot camp."},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":20.94,"endTime":24.09,"body":"The six month boot camp a hands"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":24.09,"endTime":27.78,"body":"on approach to the CEMP way,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":24.09,"endTime":27.78,"body":"outlines four of the most"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":27.78,"endTime":31.47,"body":"important concepts from Mike's"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":27.78,"endTime":31.47,"body":"rebuilt book, construction"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":31.47,"endTime":34.5,"body":"equipment, economics, version"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":31.47,"endTime":34.5,"body":"two, be sure to check out the"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":34.5,"endTime":40.2,"body":"book at his website at"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":34.5,"endTime":40.2,"body":"CEMPcentral.com. ------ Hello,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":40.2,"endTime":44.04,"body":"Mike. Go ahead. We're now"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":40.2,"endTime":44.04,"body":"recording. We'll jump straight"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":44.04,"endTime":46.47,"body":"in. Everybody who's listening,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":44.04,"endTime":46.47,"body":"we jumped straight in, we"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":46.47,"endTime":48.69,"body":"started talking, everything was"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":46.47,"endTime":48.69,"body":"so interesting. We didn't even"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":48.69,"endTime":51.15,"body":"get to an intro. And he started"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":48.69,"endTime":51.15,"body":"telling stories. So go ahead,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":51.15,"endTime":52.38,"body":"Mike, continue on"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":53.01,"endTime":55.47,"body":"That story that we"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":53.01,"endTime":55.47,"body":"were thinking we were talking"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":55.47,"endTime":58.71,"body":"about something that I read"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":55.47,"endTime":58.71,"body":"many, many years ago that said,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":59.1,"endTime":63.51,"body":"a successful technology"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":59.1,"endTime":63.51,"body":"disappears. And if you think"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":63.51,"endTime":67.83,"body":"about it, it's very, very true."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":63.51,"endTime":67.83,"body":"Because if a technology works,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":67.83,"endTime":73.2,"body":"and if it technology succeeds,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":67.83,"endTime":73.2,"body":"then it sort of becomes second"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":73.23,"endTime":78.63,"body":"nature. Okay, blocking cars,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":73.23,"endTime":78.63,"body":"switching cars on and off making"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":78.63,"endTime":82.74,"body":"a cell phone call. Think about"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":78.63,"endTime":82.74,"body":"the technology that's involved"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":82.74,"endTime":87.93,"body":"in a cell phone call. It's"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":82.74,"endTime":87.93,"body":"unbelievable. But it's"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":87.93,"endTime":90.51,"body":"disappeared. And so we just go"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":87.93,"endTime":90.51,"body":"for it. We don't even think"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":90.51,"endTime":90.99,"body":"about it."},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":91.469,"endTime":93.329,"body":"That's right."},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":91.469,"endTime":93.329,"body":"And the unsuccessful"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":93.329,"endTime":96.989,"body":"technologies, or at least the"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":93.329,"endTime":96.989,"body":"ones that are not yet"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":97.019,"endTime":100.829,"body":"successful, they get in your"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":97.019,"endTime":100.829,"body":"way. Yes,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":100.86,"endTime":103.41,"body":"yes. And then"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":100.86,"endTime":103.41,"body":"there's a dimension to that as"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":103.41,"endTime":105.93,"body":"well, I was I was walking one"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":103.41,"endTime":105.93,"body":"day through this sort of"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":105.96,"endTime":111.15,"body":"currently the hallways in a"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":105.96,"endTime":111.15,"body":"company, and upon the ball up on"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":111.15,"endTime":116.01,"body":"the walls with a normal sort of"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":111.15,"endTime":116.01,"body":"mission, vision, goals,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":116.01,"endTime":120.09,"body":"statements and things like that,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":116.01,"endTime":120.09,"body":"that we see a lot of I was"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":120.09,"endTime":125.01,"body":"looking at this statement of the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":120.09,"endTime":125.01,"body":"company's values. And amongst"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":125.01,"endTime":130.11,"body":"its values was a thing called"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":125.01,"endTime":130.11,"body":"simplicity, simplicity, we value"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":130.11,"endTime":134.7,"body":"things that are simple and"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":130.11,"endTime":134.7,"body":"robust. Period. Okay, so I went"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":134.7,"endTime":139.44,"body":"in, and I saw the, the CEO, and"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":134.7,"endTime":139.44,"body":"we're, you know, we were"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":139.44,"endTime":141.87,"body":"bantering around, and I said to"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":139.44,"endTime":141.87,"body":"him, you know, I noticed that"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":141.87,"endTime":146.16,"body":"you have a value called"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":141.87,"endTime":146.16,"body":"simplicity, I see a lot of"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":146.16,"endTime":149.55,"body":"values. And I've never, ever"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":146.16,"endTime":149.55,"body":"seen a company that expressly"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":149.55,"endTime":153.72,"body":"states a value called"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":149.55,"endTime":153.72,"body":"simplicity. And he smiled, and"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":153.72,"endTime":155.94,"body":"he looked at me and he said, you"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":153.72,"endTime":155.94,"body":"know, it's strange that you"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":155.94,"endTime":159.99,"body":"notice that, because of all the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":155.94,"endTime":159.99,"body":"values that we pay most"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":159.99,"endTime":163.62,"body":"attention to. And of all the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":159.99,"endTime":163.62,"body":"values that we struggle with"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":163.62,"endTime":168.45,"body":"most is the value called"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":163.62,"endTime":168.45,"body":"simplicity. He said, because we"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":168.45,"endTime":173.55,"body":"have discovered that nothing"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":168.45,"endTime":173.55,"body":"that's complicated, extends"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":173.55,"endTime":178.59,"body":"beyond the tenure of its"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":173.55,"endTime":178.59,"body":"original champion. Knowledge"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":178.59,"endTime":182.76,"body":"take that nothing that's"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":178.59,"endTime":182.76,"body":"complicated, extends beyond the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":182.76,"endTime":187.59,"body":"tenure of its original champion."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":182.76,"endTime":187.59,"body":"So you I have a really cool"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":187.59,"endTime":191.79,"body":"idea. It's complicated. We are"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":187.59,"endTime":191.79,"body":"its champions, we champion that"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":191.79,"endTime":195.69,"body":"idea in the business. And we"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":191.79,"endTime":195.69,"body":"keep that idea alive. Our jobs"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":195.69,"endTime":198.45,"body":"change, we get promoted, we"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":195.69,"endTime":198.45,"body":"leave we do whatever it is,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":198.84,"endTime":201.6,"body":"everybody else looks at this"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":198.84,"endTime":201.6,"body":"thing and says, you know, that's"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":201.6,"endTime":204.48,"body":"Mike's complicated idea. It's"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":201.6,"endTime":204.48,"body":"way too complicated. I'm not"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":204.48,"endTime":209.61,"body":"gonna do it, and it dies. And so"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":204.48,"endTime":209.61,"body":"he said, we have noticed that"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":209.67,"endTime":214.59,"body":"anything that's complicated,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":209.67,"endTime":214.59,"body":"does not survive the tenure of"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":214.59,"endTime":218.28,"body":"its original champion. I think"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":214.59,"endTime":218.28,"body":"that's another one of those kind"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":218.28,"endTime":219.69,"body":"of wild statements."},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":219.809,"endTime":221.789,"body":"I think that's"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":219.809,"endTime":221.789,"body":"fascinating. Because I do that"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":221.789,"endTime":224.489,"body":"all the time. I have just a"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":221.789,"endTime":224.489,"body":"wonderful idea. It must be"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":224.489,"endTime":226.379,"body":"wonderful, because I came up"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":224.489,"endTime":226.379,"body":"with it. Right? That's what"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":226.379,"endTime":229.229,"body":"that's what I originally think."},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":226.379,"endTime":229.229,"body":"And then I come to the silver"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":229.229,"endTime":232.409,"body":"track employees, there's 21 of"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":229.229,"endTime":232.409,"body":"us now, right? So we're not a"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":232.409,"endTime":234.569,"body":"big company. We're not like"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":232.409,"endTime":234.569,"body":"talking hundreds of people. And"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":234.569,"endTime":237.959,"body":"I say this is a great idea."},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":234.569,"endTime":237.959,"body":"Everybody can see it. It's just"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":237.959,"endTime":240.659,"body":"it works really well on the"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":237.959,"endTime":240.659,"body":"whiteboard as I draw boxes and"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":240.659,"endTime":245.099,"body":"arrows. Right. And I I'm all"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":240.659,"endTime":245.099,"body":"excited about it. So I work with"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":245.189,"endTime":248.009,"body":"the developers or the"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":245.189,"endTime":248.009,"body":"accountants or however it is for"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":248.009,"endTime":251.579,"body":"the first first couple months."},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":248.009,"endTime":251.579,"body":"And then I say, Okay, you guys"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":251.579,"endTime":254.579,"body":"got this, finish up the"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":251.579,"endTime":254.579,"body":"implementation, I'll come back"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":254.579,"endTime":258.179,"body":"to it, I get go on to the next"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":254.579,"endTime":258.179,"body":"big project, or whatever it is,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":258.359,"endTime":262.229,"body":"I come back six months later,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":258.359,"endTime":262.229,"body":"and it's still right where we"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":262.229,"endTime":267.089,"body":"left off. I'm like, Well, what"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":262.229,"endTime":267.089,"body":"happened here? And so much of"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":267.089,"endTime":270.719,"body":"the time, I would have to go"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":267.089,"endTime":270.719,"body":"back and look. But so most of"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":270.719,"endTime":273.719,"body":"the time, it's not they're"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":270.719,"endTime":273.719,"body":"failing to get it implemented."},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":274.169,"endTime":277.019,"body":"It's that I'm the original"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":274.169,"endTime":277.019,"body":"champion. And it was a"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":277.019,"endTime":282.389,"body":"complicated idea. And so in"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":277.019,"endTime":282.389,"body":"order for me to if it's truly a"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":282.389,"endTime":285.659,"body":"good idea, which it might be"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":282.389,"endTime":285.659,"body":"Maybe, maybe not, if it's really"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":285.659,"endTime":288.479,"body":"a good idea, then the work of"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":285.659,"endTime":288.479,"body":"the original champion to"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":288.479,"endTime":292.619,"body":"actually get it integrated, is"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":288.479,"endTime":292.619,"body":"to reduce the complexity down to"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":292.619,"endTime":295.979,"body":"a few simple points. Yes, yes."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":296.31,"endTime":299.97,"body":"What do I say you"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":296.31,"endTime":299.97,"body":"know, simplify doesn't mean"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":300.0,"endTime":301.59,"body":"Simple, right?"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":301.709,"endTime":303.509,"body":"Because that"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":301.709,"endTime":303.509,"body":"company that you're talking"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":303.509,"endTime":306.149,"body":"about, I'm sure he uses a cell"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":303.509,"endTime":306.149,"body":"phone. Yeah, that cell phone is"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":306.149,"endTime":307.379,"body":"anything but simple."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":307.56,"endTime":311.58,"body":"Yep. But come up"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":307.56,"endTime":311.58,"body":"with a reporting system, or come"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":311.58,"endTime":315.81,"body":"up with a costing system or any"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":311.58,"endTime":315.81,"body":"organizational approach that's"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":316.11,"endTime":319.62,"body":"complex, it might work very,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":316.11,"endTime":319.62,"body":"very well, it might give you"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":319.62,"endTime":325.05,"body":"something that some other way"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":319.62,"endTime":325.05,"body":"won't give you. And it's just"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":325.05,"endTime":329.7,"body":"too complex for folk to run"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":325.05,"endTime":329.7,"body":"with, once the original champion"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":329.7,"endTime":334.62,"body":"has kind of removed their"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":329.7,"endTime":334.62,"body":"insistence on on it being part"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":334.62,"endTime":338.52,"body":"of the of the organization. You"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":334.62,"endTime":338.52,"body":"know, buddy of mine said one"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":338.52,"endTime":342.42,"body":"day, he said, change will never"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":338.52,"endTime":342.42,"body":"happen until the change of the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":342.42,"endTime":344.97,"body":"status quo exceeds the pain of"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":342.42,"endTime":344.97,"body":"the change,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":345.329,"endTime":347.279,"body":"change the"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":345.329,"endTime":347.279,"body":"status quo that sees the pain of"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":347.279,"endTime":351.869,"body":"the change. Now, interesting,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":347.279,"endTime":351.869,"body":"well, that's kind of cynical,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":352.379,"endTime":358.199,"body":"it's kind of cynical, don't"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":352.379,"endTime":358.199,"body":"people don't don't, is the only"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":358.199,"endTime":360.299,"body":"pain that that motivates people"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":358.199,"endTime":360.299,"body":"to change."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":360.66,"endTime":363.42,"body":"I think it's the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":360.66,"endTime":363.42,"body":"pain of the status quo that"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":363.84,"endTime":368.67,"body":"motivates people to change,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":363.84,"endTime":368.67,"body":"okay. And so, you know, if the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":368.67,"endTime":371.1,"body":"pain of the change means you've"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":368.67,"endTime":371.1,"body":"got to do something that's"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":371.1,"endTime":374.52,"body":"difficult and complex, the pain"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":371.1,"endTime":374.52,"body":"of the status quo has got a"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":374.85,"endTime":377.88,"body":"fairly high before the pain of"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":374.85,"endTime":377.88,"body":"the change eclipses."},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":378.54,"endTime":380.85,"body":"That's, that's"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":378.54,"endTime":380.85,"body":"true. And sometimes there might"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":380.85,"endTime":383.52,"body":"be a disagreement about how"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":380.85,"endTime":383.52,"body":"painful the status quo is, the"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":383.52,"endTime":387.87,"body":"accountants might say, this old"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":383.52,"endTime":387.87,"body":"accounting system is fine. And"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":387.9,"endTime":391.32,"body":"the CEO or the project managers"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":387.9,"endTime":391.32,"body":"might be like, the status quo"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":391.32,"endTime":394.32,"body":"was anything but fine. I don't"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":391.32,"endTime":394.32,"body":"have any idea where we're at."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":394.769,"endTime":398.489,"body":"Absolutely,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":394.769,"endTime":398.489,"body":"absolutely. And, and, of course,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":398.849,"endTime":404.489,"body":"you know, we, we live with the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":398.849,"endTime":404.489,"body":"pain of the status quo, when"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":404.969,"endTime":406.829,"body":"retirement is within such."},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":408.57,"endTime":412.29,"body":"Sure, sure. It's"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":408.57,"endTime":412.29,"body":"not the time to be job hopping."},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":412.95,"endTime":415.8,"body":"So, so that's interesting,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":412.95,"endTime":415.8,"body":"though, that what you said about"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":415.8,"endTime":419.97,"body":"the simplicity, because the in"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":415.8,"endTime":419.97,"body":"the internal champions, because"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":419.97,"endTime":423.6,"body":"last week, Thursday, Friday, we"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":419.97,"endTime":423.6,"body":"got together for the first of"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":423.6,"endTime":428.46,"body":"four in person events, here in"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":423.6,"endTime":428.46,"body":"Vancouver, Washington, just"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":428.46,"endTime":432.84,"body":"south of our office in"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":428.46,"endTime":432.84,"body":"battleground. And we did the"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":432.84,"endTime":436.77,"body":"first of the boot camp equipment"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":432.84,"endTime":436.77,"body":"boot camp. This is for people"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":436.77,"endTime":442.44,"body":"who use VISTA by viewpoint that"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":436.77,"endTime":442.44,"body":"they sent two people each to"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":442.44,"endTime":446.49,"body":"this boot camp, we learned"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":442.44,"endTime":446.49,"body":"about, specifically the know"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":446.49,"endTime":451.38,"body":"your costs portion of equipment"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":446.49,"endTime":451.38,"body":"management in on and we spent"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":451.38,"endTime":458.28,"body":"Thursday on theory, and we spent"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":451.38,"endTime":458.28,"body":"Friday on implementation. The"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":458.82,"endTime":463.98,"body":"those 10 people were the"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":458.82,"endTime":463.98,"body":"internal champions of the"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":463.98,"endTime":468.33,"body":"equipment process. And what was"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":463.98,"endTime":468.33,"body":"interesting was that when I,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":468.45,"endTime":471.57,"body":"when we put this together, we"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":468.45,"endTime":471.57,"body":"set this out, we assumed that"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":471.57,"endTime":474.48,"body":"these companies would send their"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":471.57,"endTime":474.48,"body":"equipment manager and maybe an"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":474.48,"endTime":480.24,"body":"accountant. But in no three of"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":474.48,"endTime":480.24,"body":"the five cases they sent the"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":480.24,"endTime":486.42,"body":"chief executive, the CEO, the"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":480.24,"endTime":486.42,"body":"CEO came to the class and is one"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":486.42,"endTime":490.41,"body":"of the one of the principal"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":486.42,"endTime":490.41,"body":"Movers. And then the other two"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":490.5,"endTime":493.17,"body":"than the other two, it was"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":490.5,"endTime":493.17,"body":"people equipment manager and"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":493.17,"endTime":496.2,"body":"finance manager. So I was"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":493.17,"endTime":496.2,"body":"surprised to see how much"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":496.2,"endTime":498.81,"body":"executives were actually there"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":496.2,"endTime":498.81,"body":"in the room. I thought we would"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":498.81,"endTime":501.84,"body":"be calling calling them at after"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":498.81,"endTime":501.84,"body":"the fact. But that didn't"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":501.84,"endTime":505.83,"body":"happen, which I'm very pleased"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":501.84,"endTime":505.83,"body":"about. That the executives are"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":505.83,"endTime":507.66,"body":"taking so much notice of"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":505.83,"endTime":507.66,"body":"equipment management that"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":507.66,"endTime":511.02,"body":"they're saying, this has to"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":507.66,"endTime":511.02,"body":"happen. We talked about knowing"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":511.02,"endTime":514.5,"body":"your cost and getting getting an"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":511.02,"endTime":514.5,"body":"effective costing system put"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":514.5,"endTime":517.47,"body":"together so that they have"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":514.5,"endTime":517.47,"body":"budgeting so they have good"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":517.47,"endTime":521.16,"body":"costing and marrying up the"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":517.47,"endTime":521.16,"body":"level of detail on the revenue"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":521.16,"endTime":525.0,"body":"side versus the cost side, which"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":521.16,"endTime":525.0,"body":"was a big portion of what we did"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":525.0,"endTime":528.96,"body":"Friday and Friday afternoon,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":525.0,"endTime":528.96,"body":"especially on everybody's so"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":528.96,"endTime":530.79,"body":"they can look at their"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":528.96,"endTime":530.79,"body":"equipment, revenue and equipment"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":530.79,"endTime":535.92,"body":"costs. It was it was absolutely"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":530.79,"endTime":535.92,"body":"phenomenal two days I just those"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":535.95,"endTime":538.14,"body":"those kinds of meetings, when I"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":535.95,"endTime":538.14,"body":"get together with people and"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":538.14,"endTime":540.3,"body":"talk about their equipment, you"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":538.14,"endTime":540.3,"body":"can tell these people really,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":540.3,"endTime":544.68,"body":"really, really care about yellow"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":540.3,"endTime":544.68,"body":"iron. Yeah, and"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":544.68,"endTime":548.07,"body":"wide iron and"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":544.68,"endTime":548.07,"body":"white on and off highway fleet"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":548.07,"endTime":551.25,"body":"and their own highway fleet."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":548.07,"endTime":551.25,"body":"Right. You know, kudos to the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":551.25,"endTime":556.89,"body":"folk. Kudos to the CEOs who came"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":551.25,"endTime":556.89,"body":"because they're really"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":557.37,"endTime":561.3,"body":"understanding the importance of"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":557.37,"endTime":561.3,"body":"that. And I think the importance"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":561.3,"endTime":565.77,"body":"of what we're talking about is,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":561.3,"endTime":565.77,"body":"knowing your costs, knowing your"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":565.77,"endTime":570.6,"body":"costs in general, knowing your"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":565.77,"endTime":570.6,"body":"costs relating to equipment. I"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":570.6,"endTime":574.5,"body":"think the importance comes"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":570.6,"endTime":574.5,"body":"perhaps in two, maybe three"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":574.5,"endTime":579.09,"body":"dimensions. The first dimension"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":574.5,"endTime":579.09,"body":"is that if you run five or six"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":579.09,"endTime":582.06,"body":"jobs and equipment is a"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":579.09,"endTime":582.06,"body":"substantial portion of your"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":582.06,"endTime":585.42,"body":"activities, then the equipment"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":582.06,"endTime":585.42,"body":"account is the biggest job in"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":585.42,"endTime":590.88,"body":"the company. And the equipment"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":585.42,"endTime":590.88,"body":"account is going to be handling"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":590.88,"endTime":593.82,"body":"more money, more money more,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":590.88,"endTime":593.82,"body":"more money is going to be"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":594.0,"endTime":597.33,"body":"handled and transactions made"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":594.0,"endTime":597.33,"body":"inside the equipment account"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":597.33,"endTime":602.85,"body":"than in any one of the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":597.33,"endTime":602.85,"body":"individual jobs. So it's it's a,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":602.88,"endTime":606.15,"body":"it's the biggest job in the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":602.88,"endTime":606.15,"body":"company, okay, and then the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":606.15,"endTime":609.27,"body":"equipment account has got"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":606.15,"endTime":609.27,"body":"another characteristic. And that"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":609.27,"endTime":614.28,"body":"is it goes on year to year to"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":609.27,"endTime":614.28,"body":"year, it doesn't end like many"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":614.28,"endTime":615.12,"body":"jobs do."},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":615.66,"endTime":617.79,"body":"Right? You"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":615.66,"endTime":617.79,"body":"can't, you can't you don't get a"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":617.79,"endTime":621.75,"body":"breather, really, because it"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":617.79,"endTime":621.75,"body":"just continues to go."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":622.259,"endTime":625.679,"body":"No, you can't wrap"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":622.259,"endTime":625.679,"body":"it up and process your, your"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":625.739,"endTime":629.819,"body":"your completion and process your"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":625.739,"endTime":629.819,"body":"outstanding invoices and claims"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":629.819,"endTime":633.479,"body":"and come up with a number. You"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":629.819,"endTime":633.479,"body":"know, when it's all done,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":633.479,"endTime":637.859,"body":"because December the 31st rolls"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":633.479,"endTime":637.859,"body":"into January, the first and the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":637.859,"endTime":641.069,"body":"years just roll on to one"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":637.859,"endTime":641.069,"body":"another. It's a big and"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":641.069,"endTime":647.339,"body":"important job. Okay. The second"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":641.069,"endTime":647.339,"body":"dimension, which is kudos to the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":647.369,"endTime":654.839,"body":"to the CEOs is that most CEOs"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":647.369,"endTime":654.839,"body":"have probably come through the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":655.049,"endTime":659.009,"body":"construction, end of the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":655.049,"endTime":659.009,"body":"business, there are very few"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":659.009,"endTime":664.259,"body":"equipment managers who become"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":659.009,"endTime":664.259,"body":"CEO, okay. And as they come"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":664.259,"endTime":668.279,"body":"through this, the construction"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":664.259,"endTime":668.279,"body":"end of the business, they've cut"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":668.279,"endTime":670.889,"body":"their teeth, and they've been"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":668.279,"endTime":670.889,"body":"trained, and they've grown up in"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":670.889,"endTime":676.169,"body":"Job Costing, and then estimating"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":670.889,"endTime":676.169,"body":"projects to completion and then"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":676.499,"endTime":680.699,"body":"managing their project whips and"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":676.499,"endTime":680.699,"body":"then all those good things that"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":680.699,"endTime":687.419,"body":"happen when you when you manage"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":680.699,"endTime":687.419,"body":"a project. And they have very"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":687.419,"endTime":693.239,"body":"little idea about how all those"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":687.419,"endTime":693.239,"body":"know your cost things are"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":693.239,"endTime":698.849,"body":"implemented inside of the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":693.239,"endTime":698.849,"body":"equipment account. Yep. And in"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":698.849,"endTime":702.809,"body":"many, many ways, and one of the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":698.849,"endTime":702.809,"body":"things I struggle with a lot is"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":702.809,"endTime":710.249,"body":"that know your costs inside of a"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":702.809,"endTime":710.249,"body":"job, or a project is exactly the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":710.249,"endTime":712.979,"body":"same as knowing your costs"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":710.249,"endTime":712.979,"body":"inside of your equipment"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":712.979,"endTime":717.029,"body":"account. Okay, you've got to set"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":712.979,"endTime":717.029,"body":"up your budgets, you've got to"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":717.029,"endTime":721.829,"body":"collect your actuals, you've got"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":717.029,"endTime":721.829,"body":"to put your costs into phase"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":721.829,"endTime":727.259,"body":"codes or principal cost types"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":721.829,"endTime":727.259,"body":"for equipment. And we know how"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":727.259,"endTime":732.059,"body":"to manage cost at the job level."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":727.259,"endTime":732.059,"body":"But frequently, because of their"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":732.059,"endTime":735.779,"body":"background and training, are"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":732.059,"endTime":735.779,"body":"knowing your costs in the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":735.779,"endTime":739.109,"body":"equipment account and at the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":735.779,"endTime":739.109,"body":"fleet level is something that"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":739.109,"endTime":745.649,"body":"very few CEOs have hands on"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":739.109,"endTime":745.649,"body":"experience with. Okay. And so"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":745.649,"endTime":750.329,"body":"kudos to them for getting close"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":745.649,"endTime":750.329,"body":"to loving and understanding"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":750.329,"endTime":754.889,"body":"something that that they haven't"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":750.329,"endTime":754.889,"body":"had hands on personal experience"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":754.889,"endTime":758.159,"body":"with. That's a great, great"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":754.889,"endTime":758.159,"body":"attribute for them and a great"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":758.159,"endTime":759.779,"body":"pity for our business."},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":760.29,"endTime":763.62,"body":"One of the one"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":760.29,"endTime":763.62,"body":"of the things that came up right"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":763.62,"endTime":768.51,"body":"away, Thursday, first thing in"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":763.62,"endTime":768.51,"body":"the morning, and then we and"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":768.51,"endTime":771.75,"body":"then we hit it again after lunch"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":768.51,"endTime":771.75,"body":"on Thursday was about the rate"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":771.75,"endTime":775.8,"body":"structure. And of course, we"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":771.75,"endTime":775.8,"body":"know that we're charging, we"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":775.8,"endTime":779.1,"body":"want to charge a rate to the"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":775.8,"endTime":779.1,"body":"jobs. And because I was talking"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":779.1,"endTime":781.74,"body":"about knowing your cost, and I"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":779.1,"endTime":781.74,"body":"was and I was really interested"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":781.74,"endTime":785.76,"body":"in in building them a smoke"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":781.74,"endTime":785.76,"body":"alarm. I you know, that was"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":785.76,"endTime":788.94,"body":"really what I'm trying to do"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":785.76,"endTime":788.94,"body":"here is I told them that really"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":788.94,"endTime":790.86,"body":"what we have to do in your"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":788.94,"endTime":790.86,"body":"company is we have to attack"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":790.86,"endTime":792.96,"body":"utilization, we have to attack"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":790.86,"endTime":792.96,"body":"reliability, we have attack"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":792.96,"endTime":795.84,"body":"fleet age, those are the things"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":792.96,"endTime":795.84,"body":"we really need to do here. But"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":795.84,"endTime":798.09,"body":"before we do that, I told them,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":795.84,"endTime":798.09,"body":"we're going to build a smoke"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":798.09,"endTime":802.53,"body":"alarm to say, do you have a"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":798.09,"endTime":802.53,"body":"problem or not. And that's what"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":802.56,"endTime":805.26,"body":"knowing your cost really is, is"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":802.56,"endTime":805.26,"body":"a smoke alarm for one of those"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":805.26,"endTime":808.17,"body":"three things were likely for one"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":805.26,"endTime":808.17,"body":"of those three things. So we've"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":808.17,"endTime":811.2,"body":"talked about that. And so we"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":808.17,"endTime":811.2,"body":"avoided the talk, I steer the"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":811.2,"endTime":814.23,"body":"conversation away from the dual"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":811.2,"endTime":814.23,"body":"rate structure and how we handle"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":814.23,"endTime":818.43,"body":"utilization because that always"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":814.23,"endTime":818.43,"body":"comes up right. And, and but we"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":818.43,"endTime":821.61,"body":"did talk about establishing the"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":818.43,"endTime":821.61,"body":"rates in the first place, which"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":821.64,"endTime":827.52,"body":"often come from most of the time"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":821.64,"endTime":827.52,"body":"come from the historical costs"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":827.58,"endTime":830.85,"body":"on a class of equipment. So we"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":827.58,"endTime":830.85,"body":"look at the historical cost over"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":830.85,"endTime":834.06,"body":"a period of time, we say is this"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":830.85,"endTime":834.06,"body":"likely to change in the future?"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":834.09,"endTime":838.86,"body":"Yes, no. And then we establish a"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":834.09,"endTime":838.86,"body":"rate that we charge the jobs,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":839.22,"endTime":843.0,"body":"regardless of method that's"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":839.22,"endTime":843.0,"body":"going to get us so that the our"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":843.09,"endTime":847.2,"body":"next 12 months is going to cover"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":843.09,"endTime":847.2,"body":"the cost and we're going to"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":847.2,"endTime":851.61,"body":"break even on this rate class,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":847.2,"endTime":851.61,"body":"that would be ideal anyway. And"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":851.67,"endTime":855.42,"body":"so the question you have I said,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":851.67,"endTime":855.42,"body":"Well, you know, 12 months and do"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":855.42,"endTime":859.32,"body":"this, and I said, Well, why 12"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":855.42,"endTime":859.32,"body":"months? And it was an"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":859.32,"endTime":862.26,"body":"interesting question, why 12"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":859.32,"endTime":862.26,"body":"months? What? Why not more"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":862.26,"endTime":865.35,"body":"often? Why not? less often?"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":862.26,"endTime":865.35,"body":"what's the what's the correct"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":865.35,"endTime":868.53,"body":"frequency of that? And then on"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":865.35,"endTime":868.53,"body":"top of that, they said, well,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":868.53,"endTime":872.61,"body":"Michael, what's the process that"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":868.53,"endTime":872.61,"body":"we should go through to"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":872.64,"endTime":875.64,"body":"establish these rates? Like, do"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":872.64,"endTime":875.64,"body":"you have like you have a"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":875.64,"endTime":878.52,"body":"checklist for us, Michael, we"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":875.64,"endTime":878.52,"body":"didn't fully leave the questions"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":878.52,"endTime":881.13,"body":"unanswered. Luckily, I don't"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":878.52,"endTime":881.13,"body":"have to be much of an expert as"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":881.13,"endTime":884.88,"body":"they are already experts. And so"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":881.13,"endTime":884.88,"body":"you know, with those 10 people"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":884.88,"endTime":887.16,"body":"from these five different"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":884.88,"endTime":887.16,"body":"companies, we actually were able"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":887.16,"endTime":890.13,"body":"to get very far answering this"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":887.16,"endTime":890.13,"body":"question, but I'm curious, what"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":890.13,"endTime":893.94,"body":"have you seen here on this? What"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":890.13,"endTime":893.94,"body":"is the normal interval? What is"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":894.03,"endTime":897.12,"body":"what is the process you see on"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":894.03,"endTime":897.12,"body":"this when you're sampling rates"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":897.12,"endTime":897.87,"body":"to charge the jobs"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":899.46,"endTime":903.27,"body":"well, Come to the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":899.46,"endTime":903.27,"body":"expertise thing, you know,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":903.84,"endTime":910.11,"body":"asking the right question is a"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":903.84,"endTime":910.11,"body":"real expertise. And that's what"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":910.11,"endTime":912.66,"body":"you were doing when you were"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":910.11,"endTime":912.66,"body":"with those folks as you were"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":912.66,"endTime":917.82,"body":"asking them the right question,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":912.66,"endTime":917.82,"body":"which caused them to review what"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":917.82,"endTime":923.91,"body":"they were doing and to think."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":917.82,"endTime":923.91,"body":"Okay, so I think it's very true"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":923.91,"endTime":928.89,"body":"that many cases, the success of"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":923.91,"endTime":928.89,"body":"a senior executive depends on"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":928.89,"endTime":934.05,"body":"their ability to ask the right"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":928.89,"endTime":934.05,"body":"question, more than on their"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":934.05,"endTime":938.07,"body":"ability to give the right"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":934.05,"endTime":938.07,"body":"answer. Because the folk doing"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":938.07,"endTime":942.24,"body":"the work of the folk in the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":938.07,"endTime":942.24,"body":"trenches, so to speak, they the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":942.24,"endTime":946.47,"body":"folk who give the right answer,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":942.24,"endTime":946.47,"body":"the chief executive just ask the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":946.47,"endTime":950.85,"body":"right questions, and then sort"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":946.47,"endTime":950.85,"body":"of make sure that the answer is"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":951.09,"endTime":954.84,"body":"acceptable, palatable within the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":951.09,"endTime":954.84,"body":"realms and likely to succeed."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":955.35,"endTime":958.62,"body":"The skill of asking the right"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":955.35,"endTime":958.62,"body":"question is a is a very"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":958.62,"endTime":963.09,"body":"important thing. So this"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":958.62,"endTime":963.09,"body":"question about how frequently do"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":963.09,"endTime":968.25,"body":"we adjust our rates or my"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":963.09,"endTime":968.25,"body":"preferences to say, do we"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":968.25,"endTime":975.21,"body":"calibrate our rates? Okay?"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":968.25,"endTime":975.21,"body":"Because, you know, we have the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":975.21,"endTime":979.44,"body":"rates, and we have now"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":975.21,"endTime":979.44,"body":"experienced with those rates,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":979.77,"endTime":983.52,"body":"and it's now a matter of"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":979.77,"endTime":983.52,"body":"calibrating those rates, so that"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":983.64,"endTime":988.41,"body":"it said that our budgeted cost,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":983.64,"endTime":988.41,"body":"which is, what the rate is,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":988.62,"endTime":992.13,"body":"matches our actual costs, which"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":988.62,"endTime":992.13,"body":"is the experience we gathering,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":992.13,"endTime":995.58,"body":"we gathering experience with"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":992.13,"endTime":995.58,"body":"actual costs, and we comparing"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":995.58,"endTime":999.69,"body":"it with our budgeted cost. And"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":995.58,"endTime":999.69,"body":"what's strange, again, to come"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":999.69,"endTime":1002.6,"body":"to this thing about the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":999.69,"endTime":1002.6,"body":"difference between construction"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1002.6,"endTime":1007.19,"body":"and equipment, you know, we do"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1002.6,"endTime":1007.19,"body":"Job Costing, and we measure"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1007.19,"endTime":1012.05,"body":"performance on the job site."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1007.19,"endTime":1012.05,"body":"Because we want to collect that"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1012.05,"endTime":1017.27,"body":"experience, and feed it forward"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1012.05,"endTime":1017.27,"body":"into estimating and calibrate"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1017.6,"endTime":1022.04,"body":"the custom productions that we"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1017.6,"endTime":1022.04,"body":"use in our job estimating"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1022.04,"endTime":1025.7,"body":"process and in our job"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1022.04,"endTime":1025.7,"body":"management process, because the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1025.7,"endTime":1028.64,"body":"estimate becomes our budget or"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1025.7,"endTime":1028.64,"body":"very close to the estimate"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1028.64,"endTime":1032.51,"body":"becomes very close to our"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1028.64,"endTime":1032.51,"body":"budget. But yet when it comes to"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1032.51,"endTime":1038.75,"body":"equipment, we are also"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1032.51,"endTime":1038.75,"body":"collecting experience. And then"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1038.75,"endTime":1043.79,"body":"we must take that experience and"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1038.75,"endTime":1043.79,"body":"feed it forward into our"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1043.85,"endTime":1049.22,"body":"equipment estimating process,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1043.85,"endTime":1049.22,"body":"which is our rates calibration"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1049.61,"endTime":1054.35,"body":"process, specific answer to your"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1049.61,"endTime":1054.35,"body":"question, I like to see"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1054.35,"endTime":1058.19,"body":"companies who review and"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1054.35,"endTime":1058.19,"body":"calibrate their rates at least"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1058.19,"endTime":1062.69,"body":"annually, in exactly the same"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1058.19,"endTime":1062.69,"body":"way as when the job is finished,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1062.72,"endTime":1066.47,"body":"we were talking about the fact"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1062.72,"endTime":1066.47,"body":"that jobs have the cycles, but"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1066.47,"endTime":1070.52,"body":"equipment has a 12 month cycle."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1066.47,"endTime":1070.52,"body":"When the job is finished, the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1070.52,"endTime":1073.4,"body":"years budgeting process is"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1070.52,"endTime":1073.4,"body":"finished. And we start"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1073.43,"endTime":1077.0,"body":"establishing the budgets for the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1073.43,"endTime":1077.0,"body":"new year, which is the same as"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1077.0,"endTime":1082.28,"body":"establishing the budgets for the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1077.0,"endTime":1082.28,"body":"new project. We will calibrate"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1082.28,"endTime":1087.23,"body":"those rates, and think seriously"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1082.28,"endTime":1087.23,"body":"about how to change those rates"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1087.23,"endTime":1091.4,"body":"as we establish new benchmarks,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1087.23,"endTime":1091.4,"body":"new budgets for the year ahead."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1091.79,"endTime":1095.78,"body":"Okay. Now, if you've got a big"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1091.79,"endTime":1095.78,"body":"and complex fleet, and you've"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1095.78,"endTime":1099.62,"body":"got a lot of rate classes,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1095.78,"endTime":1099.62,"body":"you're going to be calibrating"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1099.62,"endTime":1103.88,"body":"budgets for a lot of different"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1099.62,"endTime":1103.88,"body":"machines and different rate"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1103.88,"endTime":1107.75,"body":"classes. And it's going to be a"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1103.88,"endTime":1107.75,"body":"major operation. So what I see a"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1107.75,"endTime":1111.23,"body":"lot of successful companies"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1107.75,"endTime":1111.23,"body":"doing is they take their support"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1111.23,"endTime":1115.58,"body":"equipment fleet, and say, let's"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1111.23,"endTime":1115.58,"body":"have a look at our support"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1115.58,"endTime":1118.34,"body":"equipment. And at the end of"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1115.58,"endTime":1118.34,"body":"this summer's end of this"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1118.34,"endTime":1121.28,"body":"quarter, we're going to review"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1118.34,"endTime":1121.28,"body":"everything relating to support"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1121.28,"endTime":1125.27,"body":"equipment, and we're going to"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1121.28,"endTime":1125.27,"body":"establish new budget benchmarks"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1125.27,"endTime":1128.93,"body":"perhaps for the year ahead you"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1125.27,"endTime":1128.93,"body":"in our support equipment, and"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1128.93,"endTime":1132.32,"body":"then in our production"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1128.93,"endTime":1132.32,"body":"equipment, and then in our on"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1132.32,"endTime":1137.0,"body":"highway fleet, do a portion of"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1132.32,"endTime":1137.0,"body":"the fleet every quarter, but"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1137.0,"endTime":1141.83,"body":"issue a new Red Book, if you"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1137.0,"endTime":1141.83,"body":"like, on an annual basis."},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1142.13,"endTime":1144.92,"body":"Gotcha. So so we"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1142.13,"endTime":1144.92,"body":"we've we've worked through these"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1144.92,"endTime":1148.61,"body":"different you know, categories"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1144.92,"endTime":1148.61,"body":"of equipment or sets of"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1148.61,"endTime":1153.29,"body":"categories. And we've gotten by"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1148.61,"endTime":1153.29,"body":"and perhaps even, this is what"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1153.29,"endTime":1157.22,"body":"the rate is going to change to"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1153.29,"endTime":1157.22,"body":"it was you know, we had 105 now"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1157.22,"endTime":1160.82,"body":"we've calibrated it now it's"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1157.22,"endTime":1160.82,"body":"going to be 106 It'd be great if"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1160.82,"endTime":1164.42,"body":"it was that small of a change"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1160.82,"endTime":1164.42,"body":"anyway. And we've we've set that"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1164.42,"endTime":1167.66,"body":"out we've gotten buy in from the"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1164.42,"endTime":1167.66,"body":"operations team we've got the"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1167.66,"endTime":1170.6,"body":"buy in from the estimating and"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1167.66,"endTime":1170.6,"body":"we've gotten ultimately buy in"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1170.6,"endTime":1175.07,"body":"from the executives and now that"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1170.6,"endTime":1175.07,"body":"might sit for three months"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1175.13,"endTime":1178.91,"body":"because the the new rate book"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1175.13,"endTime":1178.91,"body":"comes out at the end of June but"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1178.91,"endTime":1181.7,"body":"we've done this we've done this"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1178.91,"endTime":1181.7,"body":"at the end of March"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1183.77,"endTime":1186.38,"body":"yeah and that's"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1183.77,"endTime":1186.38,"body":"why I suggest that you start"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1186.38,"endTime":1193.1,"body":"with the with the the more rats"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1186.38,"endTime":1193.1,"body":"and mice fleets, the stat the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1193.13,"endTime":1195.89,"body":"the non production equipment,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1193.13,"endTime":1195.89,"body":"the standby equipment, the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1195.89,"endTime":1200.39,"body":"support equipment, the message"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1195.89,"endTime":1200.39,"body":"boards, the hours Lighting"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1200.39,"endTime":1205.43,"body":"plants, the conex boxes and all"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1200.39,"endTime":1205.43,"body":"those sorts of things right"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1205.61,"endTime":1210.41,"body":"here. And then in the, in the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1205.61,"endTime":1210.41,"body":"quarter immediately preceding"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1210.59,"endTime":1215.54,"body":"the, the implementation of the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1210.59,"endTime":1215.54,"body":"new Red Book, you do the stuff"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1215.54,"endTime":1219.11,"body":"that really counts, and that's"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1215.54,"endTime":1219.11,"body":"most likely to be the yellow"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1219.11,"endTime":1220.04,"body":"production on."},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1220.19,"endTime":1223.31,"body":"Okay. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1220.19,"endTime":1223.31,"body":"there's there was one company in"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1223.31,"endTime":1227.18,"body":"particular that came to boot"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1223.31,"endTime":1227.18,"body":"camp that had included in their"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1227.18,"endTime":1229.94,"body":"rate calculation, the cost of"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1227.18,"endTime":1229.94,"body":"capital and, and they had an"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1229.94,"endTime":1233.78,"body":"interesting comment that they"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1229.94,"endTime":1233.78,"body":"said, they tried to make their"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1233.78,"endTime":1237.98,"body":"rates 2020 perfect 2020 vision,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1233.78,"endTime":1237.98,"body":"that's what they said. So that"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1237.98,"endTime":1243.32,"body":"means that meant to them that"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1237.98,"endTime":1243.32,"body":"their rates included 20% return"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1243.32,"endTime":1247.34,"body":"on investment. So they included"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1243.32,"endTime":1247.34,"body":"a cost of capital in there as"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1247.34,"endTime":1251.6,"body":"20%, they chose 20%. And they"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1247.34,"endTime":1251.6,"body":"said that their rates should be"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1251.6,"endTime":1257.45,"body":"able to beat rental companies in"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1251.6,"endTime":1257.45,"body":"their area by 20%. So they're"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1257.45,"endTime":1261.14,"body":"saying 20% return on investment"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1257.45,"endTime":1261.14,"body":"included in the rate that"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1261.14,"endTime":1264.89,"body":"they're charging your jobs. And"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1261.14,"endTime":1264.89,"body":"still, that rate, even marked up"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1264.89,"endTime":1269.99,"body":"such as it is, would be the"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1264.89,"endTime":1269.99,"body":"external rental rates by 20%."},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1270.05,"endTime":1273.38,"body":"And so they they include this"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1270.05,"endTime":1273.38,"body":"rate in the cost of capital. And"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1273.38,"endTime":1276.05,"body":"of course, what that means is"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1273.38,"endTime":1276.05,"body":"that, since they're including"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1276.05,"endTime":1278.72,"body":"the cost of capital, that their"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1276.05,"endTime":1278.72,"body":"equipment budget doesn't net to"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1278.72,"endTime":1285.26,"body":"zero. It's actually a profit"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1278.72,"endTime":1285.26,"body":"center. And it seemed, it seemed"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1285.26,"endTime":1287.57,"body":"to me like Well, there's,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1285.26,"endTime":1287.57,"body":"there's some, there's some"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1287.57,"endTime":1291.83,"body":"problems there. If we if we"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1287.57,"endTime":1291.83,"body":"start having multiple profit"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1291.83,"endTime":1294.59,"body":"centers, to all of the different"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1291.83,"endTime":1294.59,"body":"sections of the business, right,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1294.68,"endTime":1297.56,"body":"there's some things to think"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1294.68,"endTime":1297.56,"body":"about here. When you're setting"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1297.56,"endTime":1301.46,"body":"those rates, if you're really"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1297.56,"endTime":1301.46,"body":"trying to get down to a zero"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1301.55,"endTime":1304.4,"body":"difference in your equipment"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1301.55,"endTime":1304.4,"body":"budget, or like in their case,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1304.4,"endTime":1306.95,"body":"they're trying to get down to a"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1304.4,"endTime":1306.95,"body":"20% return on investment dollar"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1306.95,"endTime":1310.37,"body":"figure at the end of the day."},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1306.95,"endTime":1310.37,"body":"And the argument and the valid"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1310.37,"endTime":1313.04,"body":"argument, I would say, there's"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1310.37,"endTime":1313.04,"body":"an Hey, we don't want to post"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1313.04,"endTime":1316.31,"body":"office mentality. We want we"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1313.04,"endTime":1316.31,"body":"don't want this to be we don't"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1316.31,"endTime":1319.28,"body":"want the equipment department to"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1316.31,"endTime":1319.28,"body":"become a bureaucratic post"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1319.28,"endTime":1322.16,"body":"office that's just trying to you"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1319.28,"endTime":1322.16,"body":"know, cover costs, set budgets."},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1322.19,"endTime":1325.01,"body":"And if we don't, if we don't,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1322.19,"endTime":1325.01,"body":"you know, the user to lose it"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1325.01,"endTime":1327.53,"body":"budgets, right, we got to spend"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1325.01,"endTime":1327.53,"body":"this money or the budget is"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1327.53,"endTime":1331.4,"body":"going to disappear next year."},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1327.53,"endTime":1331.4,"body":"And they said, We want this to"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1331.4,"endTime":1333.2,"body":"be an entrepreneurial, we want"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1331.4,"endTime":1333.2,"body":"them to feel like they can"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1333.2,"endTime":1336.44,"body":"actually do something to make"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1333.2,"endTime":1336.44,"body":"this happen. But of course, now"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1336.44,"endTime":1338.12,"body":"it feels like that you're"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1336.44,"endTime":1338.12,"body":"starting to put the equipment"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1338.12,"endTime":1340.61,"body":"department a little bit at odds"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1338.12,"endTime":1340.61,"body":"with the with the job cost"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1340.61,"endTime":1344.54,"body":"department because every every"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1340.61,"endTime":1344.54,"body":"dollar they get is coming away"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1344.54,"endTime":1345.8,"body":"from the operations guys."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1346.64,"endTime":1354.17,"body":"Yeah, sad, gets"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1346.64,"endTime":1354.17,"body":"down to the sort of DNA of the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1354.17,"endTime":1362.72,"body":"way we review business. And the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1354.17,"endTime":1362.72,"body":"thing that drives and motivates"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1362.72,"endTime":1367.61,"body":"a lot of people. And that is a"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1362.72,"endTime":1367.61,"body":"situation where, you know,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1367.79,"endTime":1372.65,"body":"salesmen succeed, the cost of"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1367.79,"endTime":1372.65,"body":"sales, okay? In other words,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1372.86,"endTime":1378.2,"body":"you've got them in quotes, make"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1372.86,"endTime":1378.2,"body":"a profit. Now, we'll get to the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1378.2,"endTime":1382.25,"body":"20%. And we'll get to the ROI"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1378.2,"endTime":1382.25,"body":"thing a little bit later. But I"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1382.25,"endTime":1388.76,"body":"think that is a philosophy that"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1382.25,"endTime":1388.76,"body":"says, do we set up our rates so"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1388.76,"endTime":1392.54,"body":"that our equipment account does"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1388.76,"endTime":1392.54,"body":"nothing other than recover"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1392.54,"endTime":1398.45,"body":"costs? Or do we set up our"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1392.54,"endTime":1398.45,"body":"equipment rates so that our"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1398.48,"endTime":1403.34,"body":"equipment account makes a little"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1398.48,"endTime":1403.34,"body":"margin? Okay, over and above"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1403.34,"endTime":1407.36,"body":"everything? Well, let's go back"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1403.34,"endTime":1407.36,"body":"to the business of setting up"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1407.36,"endTime":1411.74,"body":"our jobs and our job accounts."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1407.36,"endTime":1411.74,"body":"We sincerely hope that we set up"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1411.74,"endTime":1414.38,"body":"our jobs and our job accounts so"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1411.74,"endTime":1414.38,"body":"that they make a little bit of"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1414.38,"endTime":1418.04,"body":"margin. Right, right. Right,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1414.38,"endTime":1418.04,"body":"because that's we want to be in"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1418.04,"endTime":1421.07,"body":"the business where sales exceed"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1418.04,"endTime":1421.07,"body":"the cost of sales. And that"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1421.07,"endTime":1424.61,"body":"difference between sales and"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1421.07,"endTime":1424.61,"body":"cost of sales is, is the margin."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1424.94,"endTime":1428.78,"body":"And so the the construction folk"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1424.94,"endTime":1428.78,"body":"construction operations, folks"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1428.78,"endTime":1432.14,"body":"in our jobs are accustomed to"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1428.78,"endTime":1432.14,"body":"sales exceeding the cost of"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1432.14,"endTime":1436.28,"body":"sales by thing called margin."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1432.14,"endTime":1436.28,"body":"Now, with regards to equipment,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1437.42,"endTime":1441.56,"body":"many companies have a cost"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1437.42,"endTime":1441.56,"body":"recovery mindset with regards to"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1441.56,"endTime":1446.09,"body":"the equipment and say that the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1441.56,"endTime":1446.09,"body":"equipment account, we will set"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1446.09,"endTime":1451.22,"body":"the rates up so that this job"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1446.09,"endTime":1451.22,"body":"called the equipment account, it"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1451.22,"endTime":1456.86,"body":"targets zero margin, because we"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1451.22,"endTime":1456.86,"body":"make our margin by digging holes"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1456.86,"endTime":1459.77,"body":"in the ground and laying pipe or"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1456.86,"endTime":1459.77,"body":"laying asphalt or whatever it"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1459.77,"endTime":1466.04,"body":"is, we make our margin on the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1459.77,"endTime":1466.04,"body":"work we sell our customers. And"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1466.04,"endTime":1470.72,"body":"the equipment is just the tools"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1466.04,"endTime":1470.72,"body":"we use to make those that makes"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1470.72,"endTime":1475.88,"body":"those margins. And our whole"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1470.72,"endTime":1475.88,"body":"charge out mechanism is just a"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1475.88,"endTime":1481.1,"body":"way to get our equipment costs"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1475.88,"endTime":1481.1,"body":"as clean and as neat and as raw"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1481.1,"endTime":1485.81,"body":"and as breast down as possible"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1481.1,"endTime":1485.81,"body":"into our job costs. So the whole"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1485.81,"endTime":1489.41,"body":"charge up mechanism is a way of"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1485.81,"endTime":1489.41,"body":"getting equipment costs into the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1489.41,"endTime":1494.09,"body":"job cost once they're in the job"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1489.41,"endTime":1494.09,"body":"costs. We have the cost of sales"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1494.09,"endTime":1501.59,"body":"and you see exceeding our cost"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1494.09,"endTime":1501.59,"body":"of sales. So That's one mindset."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1501.86,"endTime":1508.04,"body":"And what happens there is those"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1501.86,"endTime":1508.04,"body":"guys will mark up the equipment"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1508.04,"endTime":1513.02,"body":"when they change their estimated"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1508.04,"endTime":1513.02,"body":"net cost into their bid price."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1514.55,"endTime":1518.81,"body":"And so the equipment will carry"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1514.55,"endTime":1518.81,"body":"a markup as part of the jobs"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1518.81,"endTime":1524.81,"body":"markup, and that markup will be"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1518.81,"endTime":1524.81,"body":"recognized at a job level. So"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1524.81,"endTime":1528.26,"body":"that's the kind of equipment is"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1524.81,"endTime":1528.26,"body":"a cost recovery center"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1528.26,"endTime":1534.32,"body":"mentality. The other mentality"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1528.26,"endTime":1534.32,"body":"says no, when we set our rates,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1534.35,"endTime":1537.8,"body":"our equipment rates, there will"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1534.35,"endTime":1537.8,"body":"be a margin in those equipment"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1537.8,"endTime":1542.87,"body":"rates. Because for equipment"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1537.8,"endTime":1542.87,"body":"sales has got to exceed the cost"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1542.87,"endTime":1547.76,"body":"of sales as well. All right. And"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1542.87,"endTime":1547.76,"body":"we want to give the folk who are"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1547.76,"endTime":1551.27,"body":"responsible for the equipment"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1547.76,"endTime":1551.27,"body":"budgeting process, we want to"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1551.27,"endTime":1555.26,"body":"give them what what I call the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1551.27,"endTime":1555.26,"body":"respectability of profits. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1555.26,"endTime":1559.73,"body":"because yeah, like to work in a,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1555.26,"endTime":1559.73,"body":"in a world where sales exceed"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1559.73,"endTime":1563.66,"body":"the cost of sales. Right? Now"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1559.73,"endTime":1563.66,"body":"those guys have got to be really"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1563.66,"endTime":1567.89,"body":"careful when it comes to marking"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1563.66,"endTime":1567.89,"body":"up their estimated net cost to"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1567.89,"endTime":1571.34,"body":"turn it into their bid price,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1567.89,"endTime":1571.34,"body":"right, because there is a little"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1571.34,"endTime":1577.43,"body":"margin in their equipment,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1571.34,"endTime":1577.43,"body":"estimated net cost. And so if"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1577.43,"endTime":1581.21,"body":"you reach the level where you"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1577.43,"endTime":1581.21,"body":"mark up, and I hope almost"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1581.21,"endTime":1585.74,"body":"everybody has, where you mark up"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1581.21,"endTime":1585.74,"body":"labor materials, contractors,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1585.8,"endTime":1590.78,"body":"subcontractors and equipment"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1585.8,"endTime":1590.78,"body":"differently, then when you mark"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1590.78,"endTime":1595.19,"body":"up the equipment portion of the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1590.78,"endTime":1595.19,"body":"of your estimated net cost, you"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1595.19,"endTime":1599.45,"body":"should mark it up very much"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1595.19,"endTime":1599.45,"body":"less. Because indeed, at a job"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1599.45,"endTime":1603.5,"body":"site level, that estimated net"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1599.45,"endTime":1603.5,"body":"cost doesn't carry much risk."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1603.83,"endTime":1606.59,"body":"And it also carries at a"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1603.83,"endTime":1606.59,"body":"corporate level some margin"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1606.59,"endTime":1612.44,"body":"already. Sure. So do it. Now the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1606.59,"endTime":1612.44,"body":"question, so some companies do"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1612.44,"endTime":1616.01,"body":"it, and they do it very"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1612.44,"endTime":1616.01,"body":"successfully. And that is there"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1616.01,"endTime":1619.4,"body":"is a margin in the equipment, we"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1616.01,"endTime":1619.4,"body":"give the equipment guys the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1619.4,"endTime":1623.81,"body":"opportunity to get the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1619.4,"endTime":1623.81,"body":"respectability of profit, return"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1623.84,"endTime":1628.58,"body":"Mark markup equipment. When we"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1623.84,"endTime":1628.58,"body":"mark up our equipment in the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1628.58,"endTime":1634.43,"body":"bid, we recognize that it's got"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1628.58,"endTime":1634.43,"body":"a margin in it already. Yep. Now"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1634.43,"endTime":1637.52,"body":"you've got this, the operations"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1634.43,"endTime":1637.52,"body":"guy says, well, equipment"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1637.52,"endTime":1640.97,"body":"departments profit center, we're"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1637.52,"endTime":1640.97,"body":"a profit center. Now we're"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1640.97,"endTime":1645.95,"body":"competing profit centers. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1640.97,"endTime":1645.95,"body":"And that can introduce some bad"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1645.95,"endTime":1649.31,"body":"behaviors. Okay, especially if"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1645.95,"endTime":1649.31,"body":"there's bonuses involved."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1650.45,"endTime":1657.59,"body":"Never ever calculate at risk"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1650.45,"endTime":1657.59,"body":"compensation, when part of the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1657.59,"endTime":1663.89,"body":"calculation includes an internal"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1657.59,"endTime":1663.89,"body":"charge out transfer price,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1664.67,"endTime":1668.81,"body":"because then that transfer price"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1664.67,"endTime":1668.81,"body":"becomes part of the incentive"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1668.81,"endTime":1674.27,"body":"compensation calculation, and"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1668.81,"endTime":1674.27,"body":"you run into terrible troubles."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1674.45,"endTime":1679.91,"body":"Okay. But this business of"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1674.45,"endTime":1679.91,"body":"competing profit centers is, you"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1679.91,"endTime":1683.51,"body":"know, we all want to win, okay,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1679.91,"endTime":1683.51,"body":"and you've got playing a game"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1683.51,"endTime":1686.6,"body":"called make a profit on"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1683.51,"endTime":1686.6,"body":"construction, I'm playing a game"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1686.6,"endTime":1689.93,"body":"called make a profit on"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1686.6,"endTime":1689.93,"body":"equipment. And the armwrestling"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1690.08,"endTime":1693.62,"body":"is the most elegant way of"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1690.08,"endTime":1693.62,"body":"describing what's going to go on"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1693.62,"endTime":1698.0,"body":"in the, in the business."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1693.62,"endTime":1698.0,"body":"Exactly. If you really scratch"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1698.0,"endTime":1702.95,"body":"me, I'm not a fan of"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1698.0,"endTime":1702.95,"body":"establishing an equipment"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1702.95,"endTime":1706.94,"body":"account as a profit center. I"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1702.95,"endTime":1706.94,"body":"think it should be established"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1706.94,"endTime":1711.47,"body":"as a direct cost center. And I"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1706.94,"endTime":1711.47,"body":"think that the equipment"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1711.47,"endTime":1716.06,"body":"account, and the call equipment"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1711.47,"endTime":1716.06,"body":"operation is to manage"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1716.06,"endTime":1721.67,"body":"experience and recover the true"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1716.06,"endTime":1721.67,"body":"cost of the fleet. Okay, we make"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1721.67,"endTime":1726.26,"body":"our business out of money in"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1721.67,"endTime":1726.26,"body":"construction, by producing"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1726.26,"endTime":1731.69,"body":"completed work safely on time,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1726.26,"endTime":1731.69,"body":"to the required quality and on"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1731.69,"endTime":1735.29,"body":"budget. And if you're going to"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1731.69,"endTime":1735.29,"body":"put a little margin in your"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1735.29,"endTime":1739.22,"body":"equipment account, know about"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1735.29,"endTime":1739.22,"body":"it, talk about it, have it on"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1739.22,"endTime":1745.25,"body":"top of the table, not as a fudge"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1739.22,"endTime":1745.25,"body":"factor in the in the system. And"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1745.25,"endTime":1750.41,"body":"have everybody recognize that"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1745.25,"endTime":1750.41,"body":"the jobs make 17% marginal"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1750.5,"endTime":1754.55,"body":"margin, that's the job. Expected"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1750.5,"endTime":1754.55,"body":"margin. And the equipment"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1754.55,"endTime":1759.35,"body":"account makes 5% expected"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1754.55,"endTime":1759.35,"body":"margin. And I'll help you make"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1759.35,"endTime":1763.19,"body":"your margin You helped me make"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1759.35,"endTime":1763.19,"body":"my margin and we play this whole"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1763.19,"endTime":1766.01,"body":"thing on top of the table."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1763.19,"endTime":1766.01,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1766.7,"endTime":1768.83,"body":"Right. Yeah. So"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1766.7,"endTime":1768.83,"body":"it's an interesting thing"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1768.83,"endTime":1773.0,"body":"because you can you can start to"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1768.83,"endTime":1773.0,"body":"skew. You've mentioned it"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1773.03,"endTime":1775.94,"body":"briefly with your estimating. If"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1773.03,"endTime":1775.94,"body":"you start marking up your"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1775.94,"endTime":1779.36,"body":"equipment, your equipment,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1775.94,"endTime":1779.36,"body":"budget or equipment account, say"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1779.36,"endTime":1782.78,"body":"you know that 5% you just"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1779.36,"endTime":1782.78,"body":"mentioned, and now it's not just"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1782.78,"endTime":1787.61,"body":"your cost but you have 5% on top"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1782.78,"endTime":1787.61,"body":"of that, top your costs. And so"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1787.61,"endTime":1792.77,"body":"now what would have been 100% as"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1787.61,"endTime":1792.77,"body":"marked up to 100 sorry, $100 per"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1792.77,"endTime":1796.16,"body":"hour is now marked up $205 per"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1792.77,"endTime":1796.16,"body":"hour when you send it over to"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1796.16,"endTime":1800.0,"body":"your estimating system. Well"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1796.16,"endTime":1800.0,"body":"that if you mark it up first"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1800.0,"endTime":1804.02,"body":"From there, so you just say,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1800.0,"endTime":1804.02,"body":"well, we have one margin across"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1804.02,"endTime":1807.5,"body":"the board and wire margin, we're"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1804.02,"endTime":1807.5,"body":"expecting on this job, we're"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1807.5,"endTime":1812.33,"body":"going to try to get 10%. Right?"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1807.5,"endTime":1812.33,"body":"So So we've marked up, let's"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1812.33,"endTime":1814.61,"body":"just say 10%. At the tight"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1812.33,"endTime":1814.61,"body":"market, we're gonna mark it up"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1814.61,"endTime":1818.72,"body":"only 10%. That's good. So we've"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1814.61,"endTime":1818.72,"body":"taken this 105, we multiply that"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1818.72,"endTime":1824.03,"body":"by point, by point one, we get"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1818.72,"endTime":1824.03,"body":"to $10.50, we mark that up. Now"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1824.03,"endTime":1829.22,"body":"we've marked up the markup,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1824.03,"endTime":1829.22,"body":"right? So we're at 100 and"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1829.22,"endTime":1832.58,"body":"$115.50, that we're actually"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1829.22,"endTime":1832.58,"body":"selling this to the customer."},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1833.27,"endTime":1837.41,"body":"And, and, and the problem there"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1833.27,"endTime":1837.41,"body":"becomes now if it really is a"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1837.41,"endTime":1843.98,"body":"tight market, and you've marked"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1837.41,"endTime":1843.98,"body":"up the markup, that you're, you"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1844.04,"endTime":1848.6,"body":"end up in a situation, you could"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1844.04,"endTime":1848.6,"body":"end up in a situation where you"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1848.6,"endTime":1853.94,"body":"lose the equipment heavy work,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1848.6,"endTime":1853.94,"body":"because your competitors aren't"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1853.94,"endTime":1858.47,"body":"using the same markup. And so"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1853.94,"endTime":1858.47,"body":"you don't have 10% markup on"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1858.47,"endTime":1861.95,"body":"your equipment as a company you"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1858.47,"endTime":1861.95,"body":"have, the number would change,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1861.95,"endTime":1865.64,"body":"but basically 15 and a half"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1861.95,"endTime":1865.64,"body":"percent markup, in my example,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1867.08,"endTime":1870.44,"body":"on on that particular equipment."},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1867.08,"endTime":1870.44,"body":"And if your competitors are only"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1870.44,"endTime":1873.32,"body":"marking it up, 10% there's a"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1870.44,"endTime":1873.32,"body":"chance then that you lose that"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1873.32,"endTime":1876.23,"body":"work on accident, on accident"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1873.32,"endTime":1876.23,"body":"Really?"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1876.62,"endTime":1879.71,"body":"Well, Michael, I"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1876.62,"endTime":1879.71,"body":"really, really do hope that the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1879.71,"endTime":1885.05,"body":"number of companies that do a"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1879.71,"endTime":1885.05,"body":"flat markup of estimated net"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1885.05,"endTime":1889.82,"body":"cost as they calculate their bid"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1885.05,"endTime":1889.82,"body":"price, I really hope that number"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1889.82,"endTime":1894.38,"body":"of companies is very, very"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1889.82,"endTime":1894.38,"body":"small, because you have to mock"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1894.38,"endTime":1898.13,"body":"up library equipment materials"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1894.38,"endTime":1898.13,"body":"and subcontractors differently."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1898.7,"endTime":1902.45,"body":"Because your confidence about"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1898.7,"endTime":1902.45,"body":"the cost and the risks"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1902.45,"endTime":1907.16,"body":"associated is very, very"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1902.45,"endTime":1907.16,"body":"different. If you work if you"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1907.16,"endTime":1910.88,"body":"mock up labor equipment,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1907.16,"endTime":1910.88,"body":"materials and subcontractors by"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1910.88,"endTime":1915.38,"body":"the same percentage, you're"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1910.88,"endTime":1915.38,"body":"going to end up getting a lot of"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1915.38,"endTime":1922.52,"body":"work in high risk labor markets."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1915.38,"endTime":1922.52,"body":"Yeah. Exactly. And you're going"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1922.52,"endTime":1925.4,"body":"to end up doing a you know,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1922.52,"endTime":1925.4,"body":"you're going to you're going to"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1925.4,"endTime":1930.56,"body":"end up marking up let's imagine"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1925.4,"endTime":1930.56,"body":"your flat markup is 12%. At the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1930.56,"endTime":1934.91,"body":"job level, you're going to mock"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1930.56,"endTime":1934.91,"body":"up subcontractors 12%, which is"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1934.97,"endTime":1938.66,"body":"which is ludicrous. Because"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1934.97,"endTime":1938.66,"body":"there's no, there's very, very"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1938.66,"endTime":1941.69,"body":"little risk associated with the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1938.66,"endTime":1941.69,"body":"knowledge of the cost and the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1941.69,"endTime":1942.95,"body":"performance of the work."},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1943.07,"endTime":1945.47,"body":"Okay, that"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1943.07,"endTime":1945.47,"body":"you're contractually pass the"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1945.47,"endTime":1946.1,"body":"risk off."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1946.489,"endTime":1949.969,"body":"Yeah. So that's"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1946.489,"endTime":1949.969,"body":"why I get to this business of"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1949.969,"endTime":1953.209,"body":"saying that I really hope the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1949.969,"endTime":1953.209,"body":"number of companies that have"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1953.779,"endTime":1957.289,"body":"black markups, regardless of the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1953.779,"endTime":1957.289,"body":"mix of labor equipment,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1957.289,"endTime":1961.639,"body":"materials and subcontractors in"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1957.289,"endTime":1961.639,"body":"the estimated net cost, I hope"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1961.639,"endTime":1965.689,"body":"they're getting fewer and fewer"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1961.639,"endTime":1965.689,"body":"and fewer. Okay, right, right."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1965.779,"endTime":1971.329,"body":"But let's swing back to this ROI"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1965.779,"endTime":1971.329,"body":"markup thing. And let's, again,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1971.329,"endTime":1975.769,"body":"explore this thing called"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1971.329,"endTime":1975.769,"body":"communication and understanding."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1976.099,"endTime":1980.509,"body":"Now, when we communicate and"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1976.099,"endTime":1980.509,"body":"understand a markup at a job"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1980.509,"endTime":1986.209,"body":"site level, we say it's 12% of"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1980.509,"endTime":1986.209,"body":"estimated net cost. And"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1986.209,"endTime":1993.019,"body":"everybody understands that, if"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1986.209,"endTime":1993.019,"body":"I'm going to mark up my rate 20%"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1993.079,"endTime":1997.309,"body":"return on capital, very few"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1993.079,"endTime":1997.309,"body":"project managers will understand"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1997.309,"endTime":2002.469,"body":"what 20% return on capital"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1997.309,"endTime":2002.469,"body":"means. Sure. And so again, I"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2002.469,"endTime":2006.069,"body":"think if you're going to mark up"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2002.469,"endTime":2006.069,"body":"your rates, because you're going"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2006.069,"endTime":2011.649,"body":"to run your equipment account as"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2006.069,"endTime":2011.649,"body":"as something that's going to"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2011.649,"endTime":2016.329,"body":"make margin like your jobs. I"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2011.649,"endTime":2016.329,"body":"think your language should be"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2016.329,"endTime":2020.499,"body":"clear and simple. We're going to"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2016.329,"endTime":2020.499,"body":"mark up our rates 15%. Okay, why"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2020.499,"endTime":2024.609,"body":"we're going to mark up our rates"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2020.499,"endTime":2024.609,"body":"15%? Well, 15% is what we need"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2024.609,"endTime":2028.959,"body":"for the risks. 15% is what we"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2024.609,"endTime":2028.959,"body":"need for the for the return on"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2029.079,"endTime":2033.909,"body":"on equity that we've got in"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2029.079,"endTime":2033.909,"body":"there. 15% is, is for all for"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2033.909,"endTime":2038.919,"body":"all the same sorts of things"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2033.909,"endTime":2038.919,"body":"that we have 15% on the job"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2038.919,"endTime":2043.929,"body":"sites markup. Now just tie up"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2038.919,"endTime":2043.929,"body":"capital, why do we Why do we not"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2043.929,"endTime":2048.969,"body":"have return on equity, or"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2043.929,"endTime":2048.969,"body":"capital locked up on the job"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2048.969,"endTime":2052.539,"body":"site in the difference between,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2048.969,"endTime":2052.539,"body":"you know, over claims and under"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2052.539,"endTime":2056.529,"body":"claims and receivables and all"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2052.539,"endTime":2056.529,"body":"those sorts of things? Why do we"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2056.529,"endTime":2061.569,"body":"not include that when we look at"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2056.529,"endTime":2061.569,"body":"job sites? Okay. I think one"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2061.569,"endTime":2068.169,"body":"needs to be very clear and very"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2061.569,"endTime":2068.169,"body":"clear in this business, of how"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2068.199,"endTime":2072.429,"body":"of our expectations with regards"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2068.199,"endTime":2072.429,"body":"to the degree to which sales"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2072.429,"endTime":2076.329,"body":"must exceed cost of sales."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2072.429,"endTime":2076.329,"body":"Because that is bottom line."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2076.329,"endTime":2078.189,"body":"What, what motivates us."},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2078.37,"endTime":2079.69,"body":"It's an"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2078.37,"endTime":2079.69,"body":"interesting point, because"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2079.78,"endTime":2084.1,"body":"project managers and estimators"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2079.78,"endTime":2084.1,"body":"understand markup on costs. They"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2084.1,"endTime":2088.33,"body":"deal with that all the time."},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2084.1,"endTime":2088.33,"body":"they very rarely deal with the"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2088.54,"endTime":2090.97,"body":"kinds of things that you're"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2088.54,"endTime":2090.97,"body":"talking about weighted average"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2090.97,"endTime":2093.88,"body":"cost of capital, right, and you"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2090.97,"endTime":2093.88,"body":"start to talk about the cost of"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2093.88,"endTime":2096.85,"body":"financing versus the cost of"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2093.88,"endTime":2096.85,"body":"equity in the business. Right."},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2096.85,"endTime":2100.57,"body":"And you have you have these"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2096.85,"endTime":2100.57,"body":"different things. What Then you"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2100.57,"endTime":2102.88,"body":"know that the equipment because"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2100.57,"endTime":2102.88,"body":"I can get return on investment"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2102.88,"endTime":2105.88,"body":"any day of the week, at least in"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2102.88,"endTime":2105.88,"body":"this market right now, because"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2105.88,"endTime":2109.21,"body":"the banks are throwing money"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2105.88,"endTime":2109.21,"body":"around, right? All I do is I"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2109.21,"endTime":2112.6,"body":"say, I'll buy one excavator"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2109.21,"endTime":2112.6,"body":"myself, I'll go and borrow the"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2112.6,"endTime":2116.35,"body":"money to buy 99 other excavators"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2112.6,"endTime":2116.35,"body":"and my return on investment is"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2116.35,"endTime":2120.37,"body":"easy to make, easy to make."},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2116.35,"endTime":2120.37,"body":"Because but but that's not"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2120.37,"endTime":2122.98,"body":"that's not, that's not what"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2120.37,"endTime":2122.98,"body":"we're really talking about here."},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2122.98,"endTime":2124.87,"body":"What we're trying to what we're"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2122.98,"endTime":2124.87,"body":"trying to this particular"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2124.87,"endTime":2128.77,"body":"company is trying to do with"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2124.87,"endTime":2128.77,"body":"their 2020 vision idea is that"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2128.77,"endTime":2132.94,"body":"they're trying to make it so"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2128.77,"endTime":2132.94,"body":"that their company, culture,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2133.24,"endTime":2136.21,"body":"inside the equipment department"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2133.24,"endTime":2136.21,"body":"is entrepreneurial, that they're"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2136.21,"endTime":2140.53,"body":"trying to find ways to save"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2136.21,"endTime":2140.53,"body":"money rather than make money,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2140.53,"endTime":2144.43,"body":"even help the company make money"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2140.53,"endTime":2144.43,"body":"overall, rather than just trying"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2144.43,"endTime":2148.93,"body":"to cut costs all the time."},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2144.43,"endTime":2148.93,"body":"Right. That was that's the main"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2148.93,"endTime":2152.47,"body":"mindset. But I think that that"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2148.93,"endTime":2152.47,"body":"conversation, that language that"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2152.47,"endTime":2155.35,"body":"they use is important, is it"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2152.47,"endTime":2155.35,"body":"easily understood by the project"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2155.35,"endTime":2159.61,"body":"managers isn't easily understood"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2155.35,"endTime":2159.61,"body":"by the best meeting team so that"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2159.61,"endTime":2165.04,"body":"we don't, we don't start having"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2159.61,"endTime":2165.04,"body":"separate understandings of this"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2165.04,"endTime":2168.61,"body":"same concept within one company"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2165.04,"endTime":2168.61,"body":"that can happen super easy."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2169.09,"endTime":2171.25,"body":"That's happened"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2169.09,"endTime":2171.25,"body":"super easily. And I think that"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2171.25,"endTime":2174.7,"body":"simplifying the language said,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2171.25,"endTime":2174.7,"body":"it's understood, and so on, and"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2174.7,"endTime":2178.54,"body":"so forth. Really, really,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2174.7,"endTime":2178.54,"body":"really, really helps. Let me"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2178.54,"endTime":2182.86,"body":"share this with you, that is to"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2178.54,"endTime":2182.86,"body":"go back to one of the oldest"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2183.28,"endTime":2187.78,"body":"performance metrics and ways of"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2183.28,"endTime":2187.78,"body":"measuring company performance"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2188.2,"endTime":2190.18,"body":"that I know of anyway. And"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2188.2,"endTime":2190.18,"body":"that's the thing called the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2190.18,"endTime":2196.72,"body":"DuPont model. Okay. And, as in"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2190.18,"endTime":2196.72,"body":"the chemical company, as in the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2196.72,"endTime":2200.41,"body":"chemical company, because they"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2196.72,"endTime":2200.41,"body":"pioneered it in the in the 30s."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2200.62,"endTime":2206.38,"body":"Okay, 1930s. Okay. And I would"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2200.62,"endTime":2206.38,"body":"encourage our listeners to find"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2206.38,"endTime":2209.41,"body":"out and, and look at it a bit"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2206.38,"endTime":2209.41,"body":"and understand it a bit. But"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2209.41,"endTime":2215.47,"body":"what it says in its basic form,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2209.41,"endTime":2215.47,"body":"is that you need to look at both"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2215.47,"endTime":2221.23,"body":"a profitable use of capital, and"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2215.47,"endTime":2221.23,"body":"the efficient use of capital."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2222.19,"endTime":2225.97,"body":"Now we spend a lot of time"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2222.19,"endTime":2225.97,"body":"talking about profit on"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2225.97,"endTime":2231.91,"body":"turnover, we spend very little"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2225.97,"endTime":2231.91,"body":"time talking about turnover on"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2231.94,"endTime":2238.54,"body":"capital. Now, if you're a heavy"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2231.94,"endTime":2238.54,"body":"grading company, the your"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2238.54,"endTime":2242.59,"body":"turnover ratio between your"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2238.54,"endTime":2242.59,"body":"turnover, your annual turnover,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2243.04,"endTime":2246.88,"body":"annual contract revenue, and the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2243.04,"endTime":2246.88,"body":"capital that you've got tied up"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2246.88,"endTime":2252.4,"body":"in your business is, is pretty"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2246.88,"endTime":2252.4,"body":"low. All right. industrial"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2252.4,"endTime":2255.49,"body":"companies and general"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2252.4,"endTime":2255.49,"body":"contractors that have concrete"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2255.49,"endTime":2259.69,"body":"mixes and cranes or concrete"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2255.49,"endTime":2259.69,"body":"mixes and, and very little else,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2259.96,"endTime":2263.26,"body":"that turnover on capital is"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2259.96,"endTime":2263.26,"body":"huge, because most of the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2263.26,"endTime":2267.25,"body":"capital they've got tied up is"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2263.26,"endTime":2267.25,"body":"in this week's payroll and"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2267.28,"endTime":2274.18,"body":"receivables. And so their"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2267.28,"endTime":2274.18,"body":"turnover on capital is very"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2274.18,"endTime":2278.05,"body":"high, which means that their"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2274.18,"endTime":2278.05,"body":"profit on turnover can be"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2278.05,"endTime":2282.13,"body":"relatively low. Because of"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2278.05,"endTime":2282.13,"body":"course, profit on turnover,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2282.13,"endTime":2287.41,"body":"multiplied by turnover on"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2282.13,"endTime":2287.41,"body":"capital is profit on capital."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2287.65,"endTime":2294.31,"body":"Okay. Whereas if you're a heavy"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2287.65,"endTime":2294.31,"body":"grading company, your turnover"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2294.31,"endTime":2297.73,"body":"on capital, you're going to be"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2294.31,"endTime":2297.73,"body":"lucky if you're going to get to"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2297.76,"endTime":2301.96,"body":"maybe do an attack Tad, if"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2297.76,"endTime":2301.96,"body":"you're, if you're using a lot of"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2301.96,"endTime":2305.8,"body":"other people's money, and those"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2301.96,"endTime":2305.8,"body":"sorts of things. And so your"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2305.8,"endTime":2308.92,"body":"profit on turnover has got to be"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2305.8,"endTime":2308.92,"body":"relatively high to make your"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2308.92,"endTime":2313.39,"body":"20%. If you're making a if you"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2308.92,"endTime":2313.39,"body":"want to make 20% on your"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2313.39,"endTime":2319.03,"body":"capital, and you making a 7%"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2313.39,"endTime":2319.03,"body":"profit. All right, you got to"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2319.03,"endTime":2323.56,"body":"have a turnover capital of three"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2319.03,"endTime":2323.56,"body":"in a very heavy and a heavy"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2323.56,"endTime":2327.4,"body":"grading company will struggle to"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2323.56,"endTime":2327.4,"body":"get there. Okay, yeah. So we're"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2327.4,"endTime":2330.85,"body":"looking at the profitable use of"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2327.4,"endTime":2330.85,"body":"capital as well as the efficient"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2330.85,"endTime":2332.32,"body":"use of capital. Right."},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2333.01,"endTime":2335.8,"body":"If this is the"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2333.01,"endTime":2335.8,"body":"DuPont, you said, it's the"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2335.8,"endTime":2338.71,"body":"DuPont analysis or the DuPont"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2335.8,"endTime":2338.71,"body":"model."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2338.98,"endTime":2342.22,"body":"Yes. So there are"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2338.98,"endTime":2342.22,"body":"lots of applications and and,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2342.22,"endTime":2345.88,"body":"you know, internet resources"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2342.22,"endTime":2345.88,"body":"relating to the DuPont model in"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2345.88,"endTime":2350.11,"body":"its various forms, because it's"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2345.88,"endTime":2350.11,"body":"morphed around a lot. All right."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2350.38,"endTime":2355.36,"body":"It's a company I worked for in"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2350.38,"endTime":2355.36,"body":"South Africa. We measured the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2355.36,"endTime":2359.98,"body":"capital invested on every"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2355.36,"endTime":2359.98,"body":"project every month. And we took"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2359.98,"endTime":2363.19,"body":"say that the left hand side of"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2359.98,"endTime":2363.19,"body":"our balance sheet, or be"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2363.19,"endTime":2366.79,"body":"represented with assets that"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2363.19,"endTime":2366.79,"body":"were on the job sites, okay."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2368.11,"endTime":2371.59,"body":"Some of our jobs, the ones where"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2368.11,"endTime":2371.59,"body":"we were running big fleets of"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2371.59,"endTime":2377.5,"body":"motor scrapers tied up on a lot"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2371.59,"endTime":2377.5,"body":"of our net pp. Other jobs where"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2377.5,"endTime":2382.21,"body":"we were where we were using much"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2377.5,"endTime":2382.21,"body":"less equipment intensive"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2382.21,"endTime":2386.14,"body":"methodologies and things like"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2382.21,"endTime":2386.14,"body":"that tied up less of our net pp."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2386.29,"endTime":2391.3,"body":"We measured turnover on capital"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2386.29,"endTime":2391.3,"body":"on every job every month, and"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2391.33,"endTime":2396.13,"body":"jobs that had a very, very low"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2391.33,"endTime":2396.13,"body":"turnover on Capitol number. How"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2396.13,"endTime":2402.7,"body":"to produce very high margins. In"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2396.13,"endTime":2402.7,"body":"order to get the same result,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2402.91,"endTime":2406.3,"body":"return on investment, okay,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2402.91,"endTime":2406.3,"body":"return on investment result."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2406.42,"endTime":2411.28,"body":"Yeah. And so if you look at, if"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2406.42,"endTime":2411.28,"body":"you look at if you look at your"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2411.28,"endTime":2415.33,"body":"equipment account only"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2411.28,"endTime":2415.33,"body":"portfolio, capital investments"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2415.33,"endTime":2418.54,"body":"into your equipment account,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2415.33,"endTime":2418.54,"body":"return around capital in your"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2418.54,"endTime":2424.12,"body":"equipment account is going to be"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2418.54,"endTime":2424.12,"body":"very, very low. Right? And"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2424.15,"endTime":2427.96,"body":"therefore, if you want to get a"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2424.15,"endTime":2427.96,"body":"20% return, you're going to have"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2427.96,"endTime":2430.36,"body":"to make a margin on your"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2427.96,"endTime":2430.36,"body":"equipment account."},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2430.6,"endTime":2434.32,"body":"Yeah, exactly."},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2430.6,"endTime":2434.32,"body":"Exactly. And then what's what's"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2434.32,"endTime":2437.56,"body":"neat about that model, just"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2434.32,"endTime":2437.56,"body":"glancing at it here, and from"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2437.56,"endTime":2442.15,"body":"what I remember from, you know,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2437.56,"endTime":2442.15,"body":"my, my old college days, is that"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2442.39,"endTime":2447.79,"body":"the incorporates the different"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2442.39,"endTime":2447.79,"body":"ways that you can get money as"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2447.79,"endTime":2450.88,"body":"well, at least a more"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2447.79,"endTime":2450.88,"body":"sophisticated analysis do so"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2450.88,"endTime":2453.13,"body":"that you can, you can look at"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2450.88,"endTime":2453.13,"body":"things like borrowing money, and"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2453.13,"endTime":2455.77,"body":"the cost of the cost of"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2453.13,"endTime":2455.77,"body":"borrowing money versus the cost"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2455.77,"endTime":2458.77,"body":"of your own of your own money,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2455.77,"endTime":2458.77,"body":"that you already have that kind"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2458.77,"endTime":2459.91,"body":"of thing. So that's good."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2460.33,"endTime":2463.75,"body":"That's good. While"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2460.33,"endTime":2463.75,"body":"I like an equipment account to"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2463.75,"endTime":2468.55,"body":"be a straight cost recovery"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2463.75,"endTime":2468.55,"body":"mechanism, I think that it's"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2468.55,"endTime":2473.44,"body":"cool to give the equipment guys"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2468.55,"endTime":2473.44,"body":"a respectability of profit. And"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2473.44,"endTime":2477.1,"body":"what and therefore, I think it's"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2473.44,"endTime":2477.1,"body":"cool to have a little bit of a"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2477.1,"endTime":2481.12,"body":"margin in your recruitment"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2477.1,"endTime":2481.12,"body":"rates. When you do that, be very"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2481.12,"endTime":2483.73,"body":"careful how you're going to mark"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2481.12,"endTime":2483.73,"body":"up your bids, because of course"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2483.73,"endTime":2486.49,"body":"I rate is an estimate within"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2483.73,"endTime":2486.49,"body":"your estimate."},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2486.79,"endTime":2489.58,"body":"Right. And even"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2486.79,"endTime":2489.58,"body":"you don't want to mark up your"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2489.58,"endTime":2492.22,"body":"motor scrapers so much that you"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2489.58,"endTime":2492.22,"body":"lose every single job that you"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2492.22,"endTime":2494.41,"body":"ever bid from now on everybody"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2492.22,"endTime":2494.41,"body":"scrapers."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2494.8,"endTime":2497.68,"body":"Yeah, yeah. And"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2494.8,"endTime":2497.68,"body":"you know, another thing about"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2497.68,"endTime":2501.88,"body":"this margin and respectability"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2497.68,"endTime":2501.88,"body":"of profit, and so on and so"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2501.88,"endTime":2505.57,"body":"forth. we're accustomed to,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2501.88,"endTime":2505.57,"body":"let's imagine that we have our"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2505.57,"endTime":2510.73,"body":"jobs of as expected job margin"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2505.57,"endTime":2510.73,"body":"of 17%. And the jobs come in at"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2511.36,"endTime":2515.83,"body":"1215, something like that. We"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2511.36,"endTime":2515.83,"body":"say, well, tough job, it's three"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2515.83,"endTime":2518.29,"body":"points, four points below"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2515.83,"endTime":2518.29,"body":"margin, two or three points"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2518.29,"endTime":2520.81,"body":"below margin, the guys are"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2518.29,"endTime":2520.81,"body":"working like stink, and at least"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2520.81,"endTime":2524.53,"body":"they start bringing in some"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2520.81,"endTime":2524.53,"body":"money. Now let's imagine we set"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2524.53,"endTime":2531.64,"body":"our margin at zero. And we come"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2524.53,"endTime":2531.64,"body":"in four points below zero, you"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2531.64,"endTime":2538.54,"body":"come in at minus four. Now the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2531.64,"endTime":2538.54,"body":"agony of negative well exceeds"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2538.54,"endTime":2541.54,"body":"the ecstasy of a positive."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2538.54,"endTime":2541.54,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2541.87,"endTime":2545.56,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2541.87,"endTime":2545.56,"body":"Especially, especially when it's"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2545.56,"endTime":2552.7,"body":"unexpected. Or margin variances"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2545.56,"endTime":2552.7,"body":"or unexpected growth, positive"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2553.09,"endTime":2557.26,"body":"and negative rushes if you"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2553.09,"endTime":2557.26,"body":"expect it, and you didn't do"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2557.26,"endTime":2562.39,"body":"anything about it, then that's"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2557.26,"endTime":2562.39,"body":"laziness. You're expected. But"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2562.39,"endTime":2564.67,"body":"I've had people say that they"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2562.39,"endTime":2564.67,"body":"said, I said, Well, it looks"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2564.67,"endTime":2567.31,"body":"like your equipment account is"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2564.67,"endTime":2567.31,"body":"negative. Yeah, but we expected"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2567.31,"endTime":2569.89,"body":"that. Yeah, I'm like, Well,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2567.31,"endTime":2569.89,"body":"okay, let's have a different"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2569.89,"endTime":2575.56,"body":"conversation then. Because I"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2569.89,"endTime":2575.56,"body":"don't want to expect a loss."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2577.33,"endTime":2581.35,"body":"Yes, but then that"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2577.33,"endTime":2581.35,"body":"loss is consolidated at a"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2581.35,"endTime":2588.07,"body":"company level. And the guys who"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2581.35,"endTime":2588.07,"body":"do that the guys who do that"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2588.07,"endTime":2591.73,"body":"watch this very carefully, and"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2588.07,"endTime":2591.73,"body":"I'm, I'm very close to a company"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2591.73,"endTime":2597.01,"body":"that does that is they will"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2591.73,"endTime":2597.01,"body":"budget for their, for their"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2597.01,"endTime":2601.93,"body":"equipment account to make about"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2597.01,"endTime":2601.93,"body":"minus one or 2%. And they budget"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2602.14,"endTime":2606.94,"body":"for that to be part of the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2602.14,"endTime":2606.94,"body":"corporate overhead. All right,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2607.78,"endTime":2614.17,"body":"watch what happens, then you"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2607.78,"endTime":2614.17,"body":"totally completely defuse this"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2614.17,"endTime":2617.2,"body":"conversation about what you"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2614.17,"endTime":2617.2,"body":"know, your equipment or guys"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2617.2,"endTime":2621.1,"body":"that are fleecing us, your"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2617.2,"endTime":2621.1,"body":"equipment, your equipment is a"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2621.1,"endTime":2627.91,"body":"profit center. Our rates are too"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2621.1,"endTime":2627.91,"body":"high. Okay, no, you're walking"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2627.91,"endTime":2634.57,"body":"around, you know, in old shoes,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2627.91,"endTime":2634.57,"body":"and, and you're, you're eating"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2634.57,"endTime":2637.9,"body":"in the low class restaurants"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2634.57,"endTime":2637.9,"body":"because look, you've still got"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2637.9,"endTime":2642.58,"body":"to get some subsidy out of our"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2637.9,"endTime":2642.58,"body":"corporate level indirects Okay,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2642.64,"endTime":2648.34,"body":"yeah. Well, that shows you how"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2642.64,"endTime":2648.34,"body":"how, what a deal we doing for"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2648.34,"endTime":2653.59,"body":"you at a job level. Okay. So"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2648.34,"endTime":2653.59,"body":"setting the setting the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2653.59,"endTime":2658.06,"body":"equipment account at a slight"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2653.59,"endTime":2658.06,"body":"negative completely the fuses or"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2658.06,"endTime":2662.56,"body":"does great things for this"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2658.06,"endTime":2662.56,"body":"optics of you guys are making"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2662.56,"endTime":2668.29,"body":"money on us, you know? Does it"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2662.56,"endTime":2668.29,"body":"affect the cost? Not one single"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2668.29,"endTime":2672.67,"body":"little bit? Because the cost is"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2668.29,"endTime":2672.67,"body":"a cost is a cost, right? And in"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2672.67,"endTime":2677.23,"body":"the end, all the pluses and"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2672.67,"endTime":2677.23,"body":"minuses in these this"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2677.23,"endTime":2680.89,"body":"responsibility center"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2677.23,"endTime":2680.89,"body":"performance measurement game"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2680.89,"endTime":2684.7,"body":"that we play, all those Profit"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2680.89,"endTime":2684.7,"body":"and Loss all those gains and"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2684.7,"endTime":2689.44,"body":"losses on internal transfer"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2684.7,"endTime":2689.44,"body":"prices wash out and it's a"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2689.44,"endTime":2691.84,"body":"difference between sales and"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2691.87,"endTime":2695.59,"body":"cost of sales at"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2691.87,"endTime":2695.59,"body":"the end, but but in the but what"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2695.59,"endTime":2699.04,"body":"it does do. It seems to me"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2695.59,"endTime":2699.04,"body":"anyway, this is just from you"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2699.04,"endTime":2702.76,"body":"know, the few minutes Your"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2699.04,"endTime":2702.76,"body":"answers, it takes away the teeth"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2703.12,"endTime":2708.7,"body":"of or takes away the sting of"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2703.12,"endTime":2708.7,"body":"the negative one now, where"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2708.73,"endTime":2712.78,"body":"where if you budgeted for zero"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2708.73,"endTime":2712.78,"body":"or at least you expected zero,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2712.87,"endTime":2715.66,"body":"and we can get into the"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2712.87,"endTime":2715.66,"body":"difference between what people"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2715.66,"endTime":2719.44,"body":"expect and what people budget"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2715.66,"endTime":2719.44,"body":"later. But, but if you expect"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2719.44,"endTime":2724.09,"body":"zero and it comes in at negative"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2719.44,"endTime":2724.09,"body":"two, well, that should be"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2724.09,"endTime":2728.47,"body":"agonizing. And it should"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2724.09,"endTime":2728.47,"body":"outweigh the pleasure of a"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2728.47,"endTime":2732.61,"body":"positive two, in my mind. But if"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2728.47,"endTime":2732.61,"body":"you if you budget negative two,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2733.57,"endTime":2736.3,"body":"and then it comes in at negative"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2733.57,"endTime":2736.3,"body":"two, then you're like, Okay,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2736.3,"endTime":2739.99,"body":"that's fine. And then how come"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2736.3,"endTime":2739.99,"body":"when it comes budget magnitude"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2739.99,"endTime":2742.6,"body":"comes in negative three? It"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2739.99,"endTime":2742.6,"body":"feels like well, wow, you know,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2742.63,"endTime":2745.39,"body":"I mean, it's a little bit bad,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2742.63,"endTime":2745.39,"body":"but it's not terrible. Where the"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2745.39,"endTime":2749.29,"body":"first, for anything below zero"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2745.39,"endTime":2749.29,"body":"at first, is painful. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2749.92,"endTime":2755.83,"body":"Zero is a very"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2749.92,"endTime":2755.83,"body":"special number. Okay. Arabians"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2755.83,"endTime":2761.68,"body":"that gave us that number? makes"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2755.83,"endTime":2761.68,"body":"everything work, right. In fact,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2761.68,"endTime":2765.61,"body":"sometimes I ponder that about,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2761.68,"endTime":2765.61,"body":"you know, what the how they did"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2765.61,"endTime":2773.26,"body":"this before they invented zero."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2765.61,"endTime":2773.26,"body":"Exactly. And zero is a very"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2773.26,"endTime":2777.13,"body":"special number, and many things"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2773.26,"endTime":2777.13,"body":"happen around zero. Now this"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2777.13,"endTime":2781.72,"body":"company that I'm close to that"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2777.13,"endTime":2781.72,"body":"has, you know, 300,000, expect"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2781.72,"endTime":2785.95,"body":"there will be 300,000 out of"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2781.72,"endTime":2785.95,"body":"about $6 million, with equipment"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2785.95,"endTime":2790.03,"body":"costs that we will not recover"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2785.95,"endTime":2790.03,"body":"from the job sites. Okay. Okay."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2791.23,"endTime":2795.64,"body":"the agony of turning that"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2791.23,"endTime":2795.64,"body":"300,000 into 400,000 is pretty"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2795.64,"endTime":2801.55,"body":"high. Okay. And, and, and the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2795.64,"endTime":2801.55,"body":"feeling is that, you know, we've"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2801.55,"endTime":2805.27,"body":"set it up. So out of 6 million,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2801.55,"endTime":2805.27,"body":"we are not going to recover"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2805.51,"endTime":2809.53,"body":"300,000 on through through our"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2805.51,"endTime":2809.53,"body":"job charging mechanism, we are"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2809.53,"endTime":2815.59,"body":"going to recover 300,000 by"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2809.53,"endTime":2815.59,"body":"consolidating that directly into"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2815.59,"endTime":2818.08,"body":"our corporate overhead. In other"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2815.59,"endTime":2818.08,"body":"words, the corporate overhead"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2818.08,"endTime":2822.43,"body":"for the equipment is 300,000."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2818.08,"endTime":2822.43,"body":"Now, that's probably the shop,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2822.76,"endTime":2826.63,"body":"that's probably the dispatcher,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2822.76,"endTime":2826.63,"body":"that's probably, you know,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2826.66,"endTime":2832.9,"body":"things which are and should be"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2826.66,"endTime":2832.9,"body":"truly corporate overhead. Okay,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2833.47,"endTime":2841.03,"body":"that's, and so it softens a"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2833.47,"endTime":2841.03,"body":"little of that, you know. So"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2841.03,"endTime":2845.83,"body":"again, their attitude is, their"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2841.03,"endTime":2845.83,"body":"style. And their philosophy is"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2846.1,"endTime":2852.58,"body":"we recover from our job sites,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2846.1,"endTime":2852.58,"body":"as as close to the true cost of"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2852.67,"endTime":2855.43,"body":"owning and operating the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2852.67,"endTime":2855.43,"body":"equipment as we possibly can."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2856.06,"endTime":2860.89,"body":"And we expect that there will be"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2856.06,"endTime":2860.89,"body":"300,000 out of, you know,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2860.89,"endTime":2864.85,"body":"there'll be 5% of that, that we"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2860.89,"endTime":2864.85,"body":"that we want to recover. But"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2864.85,"endTime":2869.17,"body":"that's okay. We will take that"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2864.85,"endTime":2869.17,"body":"as a corporate indirect, that,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2869.17,"endTime":2873.31,"body":"of course, gives the CFO who's"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2869.17,"endTime":2873.31,"body":"responsible for the corporate"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2873.37,"endTime":2879.61,"body":"indirect, a real handle into the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2873.37,"endTime":2879.61,"body":"equipment account, because that"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2880.33,"endTime":2883.87,"body":"any change in that minus 300 is"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2880.33,"endTime":2883.87,"body":"going to happen is going to"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2883.93,"endTime":2888.64,"body":"impact the corporate overhead"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2883.93,"endTime":2888.64,"body":"recovery. regulation. Right."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2888.88,"endTime":2893.68,"body":"It's all measuring performance."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2888.88,"endTime":2893.68,"body":"It's all about measuring and"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2893.68,"endTime":2899.17,"body":"motivating the responsibility"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2893.68,"endTime":2899.17,"body":"centers in your organization."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2899.68,"endTime":2902.74,"body":"Right. Another subject, I would"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2899.68,"endTime":2902.74,"body":"suggest that our listeners"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2902.74,"endTime":2905.74,"body":"research and look a little bit"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2902.74,"endTime":2905.74,"body":"is responsibility center"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2905.74,"endTime":2911.2,"body":"accounting, which is as if not a"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2905.74,"endTime":2911.2,"body":"more interesting subject and"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2911.2,"endTime":2914.74,"body":"cost accounting, and certainly"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2911.2,"endTime":2914.74,"body":"more interesting than financial"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2914.74,"endTime":2919.72,"body":"accounting. Right? But what is"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2914.74,"endTime":2919.72,"body":"responsibility accounting? It's"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2919.72,"endTime":2924.88,"body":"this whole business of setting"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2919.72,"endTime":2924.88,"body":"up the rules of the game so that"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2924.88,"endTime":2930.19,"body":"everybody plays the game in a"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2924.88,"endTime":2930.19,"body":"aligned constructive manner."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2930.94,"endTime":2935.29,"body":"Yep. It's all about alignment"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2930.94,"endTime":2935.29,"body":"and motivation. I can tell you"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2935.29,"endTime":2941.05,"body":"some guys get it. Very, very"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2935.29,"endTime":2941.05,"body":"wrong. Some guys get it very,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2941.29,"endTime":2942.43,"body":"very right."},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2943.96,"endTime":2945.49,"body":"It happened at"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2943.96,"endTime":2945.49,"body":"silver truck that we got it"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2945.49,"endTime":2950.44,"body":"wrong. About a year and a half"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2945.49,"endTime":2950.44,"body":"ago, it was our responsibility."},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2950.71,"endTime":2956.53,"body":"Accounting was we were asking"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2950.71,"endTime":2956.53,"body":"individuals to to make sure that"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2956.53,"endTime":2961.54,"body":"they were billable. a certain"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2956.53,"endTime":2961.54,"body":"number of hours per week, right."},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2961.57,"endTime":2964.0,"body":"When we tracked that had a"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2961.57,"endTime":2964.0,"body":"little scorecard. We checked"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2964.0,"endTime":2966.25,"body":"them our billable hours. And you"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2964.0,"endTime":2966.25,"body":"know, it's like, oh, great, you"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2966.25,"endTime":2968.53,"body":"know, this person has tracked"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2966.25,"endTime":2968.53,"body":"this many billable hours, just"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2968.98,"endTime":2973.06,"body":"this many billable hours, right?"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2968.98,"endTime":2973.06,"body":"Well, the when we found out that"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2973.06,"endTime":2976.12,"body":"we were doing it wrong. I mean,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2973.06,"endTime":2976.12,"body":"that sounds reasonable, right? I"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2976.12,"endTime":2979.42,"body":"mean, we're we sell labor, we're"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2976.12,"endTime":2979.42,"body":"a labor oriented company. So if"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2979.42,"endTime":2983.44,"body":"we're not working on something"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2979.42,"endTime":2983.44,"body":"that's tangible, and you know,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2983.44,"endTime":2985.3,"body":"we can't do it. And it's a"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2983.44,"endTime":2985.3,"body":"little bit different than"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2985.45,"endTime":2988.63,"body":"equipment. But in a sense, it's"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2985.45,"endTime":2988.63,"body":"like it's like our utilization."},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2988.78,"endTime":2992.26,"body":"Right? We're just being we have"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2988.78,"endTime":2992.26,"body":"we have people where we have to"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2992.26,"endTime":2995.29,"body":"be utilized rather than"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2992.26,"endTime":2995.29,"body":"machines. But so we thought this"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2995.29,"endTime":2997.9,"body":"is this would be great. In fact,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2995.29,"endTime":2997.9,"body":"a lot of it was influenced by my"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2997.9,"endTime":2999.73,"body":"work with equipment that was"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2997.9,"endTime":2999.73,"body":"like we have to talk about"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2999.73,"endTime":3004.14,"body":"yields. What happened was that"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2999.73,"endTime":3004.14,"body":"the behavior started to get"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3004.14,"endTime":3007.32,"body":"weird. And this was with people"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3004.14,"endTime":3007.32,"body":"that I respect and were doing,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3007.68,"endTime":3009.87,"body":"legitimately trying to do the"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3007.68,"endTime":3009.87,"body":"best for the company. They"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3009.87,"endTime":3012.57,"body":"weren't. This isn't like people"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3009.87,"endTime":3012.57,"body":"who were actively trying to"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3012.57,"endTime":3016.74,"body":"undermine anything. They started"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3012.57,"endTime":3016.74,"body":"hoarding work. Because they were"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3016.74,"endTime":3019.56,"body":"afraid they wouldn't make next"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3016.74,"endTime":3019.56,"body":"week's utilization if they gave"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3019.56,"endTime":3022.98,"body":"it to the developer, or the"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3019.56,"endTime":3022.98,"body":"developer beside him. And so one"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3022.98,"endTime":3026.04,"body":"developer would have idle time,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3022.98,"endTime":3026.04,"body":"the other developer would have"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3026.04,"endTime":3029.22,"body":"too much work, but they wouldn't"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3026.04,"endTime":3029.22,"body":"share because they're worried"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3029.22,"endTime":3032.37,"body":"about next week's utilization so"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3029.22,"endTime":3032.37,"body":"that the customer had to wait"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3032.37,"endTime":3037.98,"body":"for no reason. Because of that,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3032.37,"endTime":3037.98,"body":"and then on top of that, they"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3038.31,"endTime":3042.84,"body":"any flat rate jobs, we didn't,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3038.31,"endTime":3042.84,"body":"it was like, if they were"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3042.84,"endTime":3045.81,"body":"working on the flat rate job,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3042.84,"endTime":3045.81,"body":"Well, great. And we weren't"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3045.81,"endTime":3048.33,"body":"tracking whether or not they"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3045.81,"endTime":3048.33,"body":"were progressing on the flat"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3048.33,"endTime":3051.69,"body":"rate job. So as long as they're"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3048.33,"endTime":3051.69,"body":"working on what we after a"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3051.69,"endTime":3055.44,"body":"couple, three, four weeks of"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3051.69,"endTime":3055.44,"body":"great numbers, and we looked in"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3055.44,"endTime":3057.51,"body":"the products weren't getting"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3055.44,"endTime":3057.51,"body":"done great numbers, projects"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3057.51,"endTime":3059.31,"body":"weren't getting done great"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3057.51,"endTime":3059.31,"body":"numbers, projects weren't"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3059.31,"endTime":3063.93,"body":"getting done, we realized that"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3059.31,"endTime":3063.93,"body":"the the behavior that we were"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3063.93,"endTime":3067.02,"body":"asking for the behavior wasn't"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3063.93,"endTime":3067.02,"body":"matching up to what we were"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3067.02,"endTime":3070.98,"body":"asking for. And therefore we had"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3067.02,"endTime":3070.98,"body":"to look at our responsibility"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3070.98,"endTime":3076.08,"body":"accounting and say why. And it"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3070.98,"endTime":3076.08,"body":"turned out that asking for"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3076.08,"endTime":3080.67,"body":"utilization, specifically for"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3076.08,"endTime":3080.67,"body":"humans, was the wrong thing."},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3080.7,"endTime":3084.09,"body":"Because humans aren't pieces of"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3080.7,"endTime":3084.09,"body":"equipment, human, it all of"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3084.09,"endTime":3086.34,"body":"these people can actually make"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3084.09,"endTime":3086.34,"body":"decisions on their own. It's"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3086.34,"endTime":3088.92,"body":"difficult to have your your"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3086.34,"endTime":3088.92,"body":"wheel loader make a decision."},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3089.46,"endTime":3092.46,"body":"But it's easy to ask the human"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3089.46,"endTime":3092.46,"body":"to make a decision. And they"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3092.46,"endTime":3095.4,"body":"were making decisions that were"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3092.46,"endTime":3095.4,"body":"going towards the responsibility"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3095.4,"endTime":3098.7,"body":"accounting, going towards the"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3095.4,"endTime":3098.7,"body":"scorecard that were at the"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3098.7,"endTime":3100.98,"body":"detriment to the company at the"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3098.7,"endTime":3100.98,"body":"detriment to the customer."},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3101.7,"endTime":3105.0,"body":"customer first actually, which"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3101.7,"endTime":3105.0,"body":"ended up to be the detriment to"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3105.0,"endTime":3108.66,"body":"the company. I was in an"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3105.0,"endTime":3108.66,"body":"interesting where we got that"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3108.66,"endTime":3109.05,"body":"wrong?"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3110.04,"endTime":3114.27,"body":"Absolutely. We we"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3110.04,"endTime":3114.27,"body":"have since a very, very, from a"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3114.27,"endTime":3119.85,"body":"very, very young age, been"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3114.27,"endTime":3119.85,"body":"taught how to understand the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3119.85,"endTime":3124.83,"body":"game, understand the scorecard"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3119.85,"endTime":3124.83,"body":"and play the game. This whole"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3124.83,"endTime":3128.64,"body":"question of how you set up the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3124.83,"endTime":3128.64,"body":"scorecards, and how you measure"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3128.64,"endTime":3132.36,"body":"performance inside of the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3128.64,"endTime":3132.36,"body":"business. And specific end"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3132.36,"endTime":3137.01,"body":"equipment is just such a large"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3132.36,"endTime":3137.01,"body":"and complex part of that whole"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3137.01,"endTime":3140.28,"body":"puzzle of when we started off by"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3137.01,"endTime":3140.28,"body":"saying that it's probably your"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3140.28,"endTime":3144.93,"body":"biggest job. Okay, yeah. And"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3140.28,"endTime":3144.93,"body":"then we continued, and we said"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3144.93,"endTime":3150.42,"body":"that construction companies, and"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3144.93,"endTime":3150.42,"body":"particularly construction CEOs"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3150.54,"endTime":3154.83,"body":"are really good at setting up"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3150.54,"endTime":3154.83,"body":"the game and setting up the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3154.83,"endTime":3159.06,"body":"scorecards for the performance"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3154.83,"endTime":3159.06,"body":"of project teams, because that's"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3159.06,"endTime":3162.63,"body":"where they cut their teeth."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3159.06,"endTime":3162.63,"body":"That's where that's the game"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3162.63,"endTime":3167.73,"body":"they learned to play. And when"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3162.63,"endTime":3167.73,"body":"it comes to setting up"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3167.73,"endTime":3171.96,"body":"scorecards, and managing the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3167.73,"endTime":3171.96,"body":"equipment account, they don't"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3171.99,"endTime":3176.4,"body":"have any personal hands on"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3171.99,"endTime":3176.4,"body":"experience of that game. they've"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3176.4,"endTime":3182.49,"body":"watched a lot of that game. And"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3176.4,"endTime":3182.49,"body":"they've, but they and so the way"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3182.49,"endTime":3187.47,"body":"the scorecards are set up at a"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3182.49,"endTime":3187.47,"body":"project level is a fairly highly"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3187.47,"endTime":3193.56,"body":"developed science. The way the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3187.47,"endTime":3193.56,"body":"scorecards are set up inside of"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3193.56,"endTime":3198.36,"body":"the equipment account is is a"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3193.56,"endTime":3198.36,"body":"relatively undeveloped science"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3198.39,"endTime":3201.9,"body":"and the company you had there"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3198.39,"endTime":3201.9,"body":"that said, we are experimenting"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3201.9,"endTime":3207.0,"body":"with a 2020 scorecard that says"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3201.9,"endTime":3207.0,"body":"20% return on investment, and"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3207.0,"endTime":3212.4,"body":"20% below personal blow external"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3207.0,"endTime":3212.4,"body":"rates. They, they setting up"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3212.4,"endTime":3215.55,"body":"that scorecard. Other companies"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3212.4,"endTime":3215.55,"body":"set up scorecards very"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3215.55,"endTime":3219.51,"body":"differently, because this way is"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3215.55,"endTime":3219.51,"body":"this whole thing is still being"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3219.72,"endTime":3221.1,"body":"developed and still being built."},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3221.61,"endTime":3223.89,"body":"And what I'm"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3221.61,"endTime":3223.89,"body":"just I'm just so pleased that"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3223.89,"endTime":3225.99,"body":"they're doing it differently."},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3223.89,"endTime":3225.99,"body":"Because if everybody was doing"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3225.99,"endTime":3228.93,"body":"it the same, then people like"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3225.99,"endTime":3228.93,"body":"me, and you would learn nothing."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3230.73,"endTime":3233.4,"body":"Well, you know"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3230.73,"endTime":3233.4,"body":"what my dad said, My dad told"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3233.4,"endTime":3236.55,"body":"me, my dad said, you know,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3233.4,"endTime":3236.55,"body":"Rolling Stone, my dad and I"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3236.55,"endTime":3240.63,"body":"must, but it should get us"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3236.55,"endTime":3240.63,"body":"plenty of shine. And one of the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3240.63,"endTime":3244.05,"body":"opportunities I've had is to"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3240.63,"endTime":3244.05,"body":"roll around the business a lot"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3244.14,"endTime":3247.26,"body":"and spend a lot of time with the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3244.14,"endTime":3247.26,"body":"best and the brightest in the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3247.26,"endTime":3252.36,"body":"business, and pick up the shine"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3247.26,"endTime":3252.36,"body":"and learn what they're doing"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3252.36,"endTime":3258.75,"body":"and, and, you know, share my"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3252.36,"endTime":3258.75,"body":"learnings with with other folk"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3258.75,"endTime":3262.29,"body":"which is, which is really what"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3258.75,"endTime":3262.29,"body":"it's what it's all about in the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3262.29,"endTime":3262.77,"body":"end. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3263.01,"endTime":3265.23,"body":"Well, well,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3263.01,"endTime":3265.23,"body":"let's wrap up. Let's wrap up"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3265.23,"endTime":3269.04,"body":"today. I know that we get when"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3265.23,"endTime":3269.04,"body":"we get back together. We're"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3269.04,"endTime":3271.8,"body":"gonna continue on on the book. I"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3269.04,"endTime":3271.8,"body":"think we're on chapter four now"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3271.8,"endTime":3274.77,"body":"of your new book. So So I look"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3271.8,"endTime":3274.77,"body":"forward to that going through"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3274.77,"endTime":3280.02,"body":"chapter four. Next time we get"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3274.77,"endTime":3280.02,"body":"together told a story about the"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3280.14,"endTime":3284.13,"body":"airplanes and your old boss that"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3280.14,"endTime":3284.13,"body":"talk to you about flying blind."},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3284.49,"endTime":3287.13,"body":"And I don't think we've talked"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3284.49,"endTime":3287.13,"body":"about this on the podcast yet."},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3287.55,"endTime":3291.27,"body":"And I think that everybody"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3287.55,"endTime":3291.27,"body":"deserves to hear that story. And"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3291.27,"endTime":3295.11,"body":"it's I think it's so relevant to"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3291.27,"endTime":3295.11,"body":"what we're trying to do and what"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3295.11,"endTime":3297.66,"body":"we were trying to do last week"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3295.11,"endTime":3297.66,"body":"at the boot camp, because we're"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3297.66,"endTime":3300.51,"body":"trying to we were trying to get"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3297.66,"endTime":3300.51,"body":"them. Get them some where they"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3300.51,"endTime":3303.6,"body":"could well tell the story, it'll"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3300.51,"endTime":3303.6,"body":"make more sense."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3305.91,"endTime":3308.49,"body":"Well, you know, I"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3305.91,"endTime":3308.49,"body":"get ribbed a lot about telling"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3308.49,"endTime":3313.59,"body":"too many stories. But I'm a"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3308.49,"endTime":3313.59,"body":"strong believer that we learn by"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3313.59,"endTime":3317.28,"body":"using metaphors. And we remember"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3313.59,"endTime":3317.28,"body":"by telling stories, and I think"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3317.28,"endTime":3324.36,"body":"stories is how our cultures and"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3317.28,"endTime":3324.36,"body":"societies remembered in the days"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3324.36,"endTime":3328.41,"body":"before everything was written"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3324.36,"endTime":3328.41,"body":"down. Okay, but so thank you for"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3328.41,"endTime":3331.5,"body":"the stories because I'm a great"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3328.41,"endTime":3331.5,"body":"believer and a lover of stories."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3331.5,"endTime":3334.62,"body":"The story goes like this, I"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3331.5,"endTime":3334.62,"body":"worked for a delightful guy by"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3334.62,"endTime":3338.34,"body":"the name of Nick frontopolar,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3334.62,"endTime":3338.34,"body":"has long since passed away. And"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3338.34,"endTime":3343.86,"body":"he'd been a hurricane fighter"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3338.34,"endTime":3343.86,"body":"pilot in world war two in the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3343.86,"endTime":3347.37,"body":"North African desert, flew all"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3343.86,"endTime":3347.37,"body":"the way up, Italy, flew the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3347.37,"endTime":3350.31,"body":"Berlin airlift and all those"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3347.37,"endTime":3350.31,"body":"sorts of things. And I was on a"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3350.31,"endTime":3355.35,"body":"job as a young project manager."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3350.31,"endTime":3355.35,"body":"in Malawi, which is in the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3355.35,"endTime":3360.12,"body":"center of Africa, I was building"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3355.35,"endTime":3360.12,"body":"track, Bella sleepers and rails"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3360.12,"endTime":3365.28,"body":"has a very, very simple job. And"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3360.12,"endTime":3365.28,"body":"we had between Nick and I, we"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3365.28,"endTime":3368.85,"body":"had a very simple, he came up"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3365.28,"endTime":3368.85,"body":"and visited once a month,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3369.42,"endTime":3372.75,"body":"between he and I, we had a very"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3369.42,"endTime":3372.75,"body":"simple sort of forecasting"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3372.75,"endTime":3375.3,"body":"method. It said to me, how much"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3372.75,"endTime":3375.3,"body":"are you going to earn and how"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3375.3,"endTime":3378.03,"body":"much you're going to spend next"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3375.3,"endTime":3378.03,"body":"month? And I tell him, just"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3378.03,"endTime":3380.76,"body":"those two numbers, it come at"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3378.03,"endTime":3380.76,"body":"the end of the month and say,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3380.76,"endTime":3383.85,"body":"How much did you earn? How much"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3380.76,"endTime":3383.85,"body":"did you spend, I need either"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3383.85,"endTime":3388.71,"body":"scowl or smile or whatever it"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3383.85,"endTime":3388.71,"body":"was my beam. And we've done this"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3388.71,"endTime":3391.65,"body":"for about a year he one day he"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3388.71,"endTime":3391.65,"body":"said to me, he said, You know,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3391.98,"endTime":3396.45,"body":"you're pretty good at this. You"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3391.98,"endTime":3396.45,"body":"get to estimates estimates and"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3396.45,"endTime":3399.51,"body":"your numbers and your forecasts"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3396.45,"endTime":3399.51,"body":"fairly right. And I don't bother"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3399.51,"endTime":3403.53,"body":"about how you do it, but because"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3399.51,"endTime":3403.53,"body":"it's pretty on track. He said,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3403.53,"endTime":3407.55,"body":"but there will come a day when"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3403.53,"endTime":3407.55,"body":"you will build a complicated"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3407.55,"endTime":3412.08,"body":"job. He said there come a day"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3407.55,"endTime":3412.08,"body":"when you will fly more than a"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3412.08,"endTime":3416.34,"body":"single engine airplane. Because"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3412.08,"endTime":3416.34,"body":"if you fly a single engine"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3416.34,"endTime":3418.92,"body":"airplane, remember who was"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3416.34,"endTime":3418.92,"body":"American fighter pilot single"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3418.92,"endTime":3423.12,"body":"engine, right? When you fly a"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3418.92,"endTime":3423.12,"body":"single engine airplane, you can"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3423.12,"endTime":3425.97,"body":"hear the engine and everything"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3423.12,"endTime":3425.97,"body":"that goes on. He said you can"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3425.97,"endTime":3430.02,"body":"see their eyes and the sky is"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3425.97,"endTime":3430.02,"body":"blue, and their eyes in his"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3430.02,"endTime":3434.28,"body":"flat. He said there will come a"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3430.02,"endTime":3434.28,"body":"day when you will fly an"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3434.31,"endTime":3438.0,"body":"aeroplane with more than one"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3434.31,"endTime":3438.0,"body":"engine with some passengers in"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3438.0,"endTime":3442.71,"body":"the back. And when having a"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3438.0,"endTime":3442.71,"body":"disaster is a real problem. He"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3442.71,"endTime":3447.69,"body":"said I would like you to learn"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3442.71,"endTime":3447.69,"body":"to fly a job site using"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3447.72,"endTime":3453.21,"body":"instruments. Because that's how"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3447.72,"endTime":3453.21,"body":"it will get dark one day you"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3453.21,"endTime":3458.4,"body":"will fly into bad weather one"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3453.21,"endTime":3458.4,"body":"day. Not every flight that you"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3458.4,"endTime":3463.14,"body":"fly is going to be visual flight"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3458.4,"endTime":3463.14,"body":"rules. Okay, so I learned to fly"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3463.14,"endTime":3467.94,"body":"your job by instruments. And so"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3463.14,"endTime":3467.94,"body":"I said, All right, this is fine."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3468.78,"endTime":3471.96,"body":"And the next month he visited I"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3468.78,"endTime":3471.96,"body":"had on the office wall one piece"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3471.96,"endTime":3475.95,"body":"of graph paper along the bottom"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3471.96,"endTime":3475.95,"body":"was time. And along the way. And"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3475.95,"endTime":3480.33,"body":"along the y axis was miles"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3475.95,"endTime":3480.33,"body":"attract late and I had a pin in"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3480.33,"endTime":3483.93,"body":"this graph. And he walked into"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3480.33,"endTime":3483.93,"body":"my office looked at this piece"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3483.93,"endTime":3487.35,"body":"of graph paper with a pin in it"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3483.93,"endTime":3487.35,"body":"and said are your first"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3487.35,"endTime":3492.9,"body":"instrument. You now know how"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3487.35,"endTime":3492.9,"body":"many yards of track meters of"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3492.9,"endTime":3496.02,"body":"track you lay in a month? I"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3492.9,"endTime":3496.02,"body":"said, Yep. I always knew that."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3496.02,"endTime":3498.69,"body":"He said, Yeah, no, but now"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3496.02,"endTime":3498.69,"body":"you've got it up on the wall."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3499.56,"endTime":3502.02,"body":"And you're tracking it and"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3499.56,"endTime":3502.02,"body":"tracing it your first"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3502.05,"endTime":3507.3,"body":"instrument. And sometimes I"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3502.05,"endTime":3507.3,"body":"think about that, and my mind"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3507.3,"endTime":3512.73,"body":"boggles at the extent to which"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3507.3,"endTime":3512.73,"body":"we now focus on flying by"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3512.73,"endTime":3517.71,"body":"instruments, right? Because"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3512.73,"endTime":3517.71,"body":"truly, the number of days in"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3517.71,"endTime":3522.12,"body":"which we fly by visual flight"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3517.71,"endTime":3522.12,"body":"rules on a large complicated"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3522.12,"endTime":3524.61,"body":"project are pretty few and far"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3522.12,"endTime":3524.61,"body":"between."},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3525.18,"endTime":3528.3,"body":"Right. And, and"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3525.18,"endTime":3528.3,"body":"I would say that, you know, in a"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3528.3,"endTime":3533.37,"body":"time, like 2020 was, despite all"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3528.3,"endTime":3533.37,"body":"of the uncertainty, there was a"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3533.37,"endTime":3537.18,"body":"time of fairly easy money. It"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3533.37,"endTime":3537.18,"body":"was a time where construction"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3537.18,"endTime":3540.93,"body":"was relatively unimpacted unless"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3537.18,"endTime":3540.93,"body":"you were in some of the areas"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3540.93,"endTime":3544.05,"body":"that were actually shut down."},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3540.93,"endTime":3544.05,"body":"But relative to the other"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3544.05,"endTime":3547.71,"body":"markets. 2020 was a time where,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3544.05,"endTime":3547.71,"body":"you know, yeah, there was some"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3547.71,"endTime":3550.89,"body":"cloudy days, especially for some"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3547.71,"endTime":3550.89,"body":"contractors, but by and large,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3551.19,"endTime":3555.93,"body":"it was visual flight rules with"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3551.19,"endTime":3555.93,"body":"blue sky, and the horizon was"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3555.93,"endTime":3560.28,"body":"flat. And the so you could get"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3555.93,"endTime":3560.28,"body":"by with gut feel on your"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3560.28,"endTime":3563.19,"body":"equipment. You could get by"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3560.28,"endTime":3563.19,"body":"within going to the auction and"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3563.19,"endTime":3565.65,"body":"being like that looks like a"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3563.19,"endTime":3565.65,"body":"good idea. All right, we'll"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3565.65,"endTime":3568.89,"body":"figure out the financing later."},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3565.65,"endTime":3568.89,"body":"Or, let's see, okay, we can do"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3568.89,"endTime":3572.19,"body":"that. We'll figure out yeah,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3568.89,"endTime":3572.19,"body":"that's not a cat. It's kind of a"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3572.19,"endTime":3574.86,"body":"it's it. This is our first"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3572.19,"endTime":3574.86,"body":"Komatsu but you know what, we'll"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3574.86,"endTime":3577.71,"body":"figure out how we can service"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3574.86,"endTime":3577.71,"body":"that later. You can you can"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3577.71,"endTime":3581.46,"body":"understand you can you can do"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3577.71,"endTime":3581.46,"body":"that in 2020 and certainly in"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3581.46,"endTime":3587.1,"body":"the years before to a large"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3581.46,"endTime":3587.1,"body":"extent. But, but what what does"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3587.1,"endTime":3590.52,"body":"lie ahead for people with large"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3587.1,"endTime":3590.52,"body":"equipment foot fleets, we don't"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3590.52,"endTime":3594.39,"body":"know of course always uncertain."},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3590.52,"endTime":3594.39,"body":"And but we want to be able to be"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3594.39,"endTime":3597.18,"body":"prepared and that's and that's"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3594.39,"endTime":3597.18,"body":"where I don't want to make"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3597.18,"endTime":3600.18,"body":"people afraid or anything like"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3597.18,"endTime":3600.18,"body":"that. And that's why they go To"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3600.18,"endTime":3602.04,"body":"do instrumentation, hopefully"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3600.18,"endTime":3602.04,"body":"they're doing it because they're"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3602.04,"endTime":3605.49,"body":"curious, they want to get better"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3602.04,"endTime":3605.49,"body":"not because they're afraid. But"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3605.91,"endTime":3609.03,"body":"we do want to be set up, if"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3605.91,"endTime":3609.03,"body":"there is a downturn if if"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3609.03,"endTime":3612.51,"body":"construction does start to tend"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3609.03,"endTime":3612.51,"body":"towards like it was in"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3612.6,"endTime":3617.28,"body":"2008 2009, that we have very"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3612.6,"endTime":3617.28,"body":"clear instrumentation. So we"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3617.28,"endTime":3621.54,"body":"know what our equipment is"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3617.28,"endTime":3621.54,"body":"actually costing us. So we know"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3621.54,"endTime":3624.81,"body":"where the real zero is, when"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3621.54,"endTime":3624.81,"body":"we're bidding jobs."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3626.04,"endTime":3630.42,"body":"Yeah, we can share"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3626.04,"endTime":3630.42,"body":"about 2020 and the challenges of"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3630.42,"endTime":3635.31,"body":"2020 at length. But I think that"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3630.42,"endTime":3635.31,"body":"there, there's a there's another"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3635.31,"endTime":3639.18,"body":"reason why instruments and"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3635.31,"endTime":3639.18,"body":"learning knowing to how to fly"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3639.18,"endTime":3643.95,"body":"by instruments is critically"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3639.18,"endTime":3643.95,"body":"important. And that is that in"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3643.95,"endTime":3648.15,"body":"the complex world of today, and"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3643.95,"endTime":3648.15,"body":"especially as the aeroplanes get"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3648.15,"endTime":3653.58,"body":"bigger, and as we have more"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3648.15,"endTime":3653.58,"body":"responsibility for the safe"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3653.58,"endTime":3660.03,"body":"flight, the safe passage of our"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3653.58,"endTime":3660.03,"body":"cooperation through the year,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3662.52,"endTime":3666.72,"body":"the ability to fly by"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3662.52,"endTime":3666.72,"body":"instruments is required. And"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3666.72,"endTime":3670.56,"body":"expected. When I walk onto an"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3666.72,"endTime":3670.56,"body":"aeroplane, I don't sort of look"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3670.56,"endTime":3673.68,"body":"left and say to the guy, Hey,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3670.56,"endTime":3673.68,"body":"can you fly by instruments? It's"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3673.68,"endTime":3678.75,"body":"expected. And when when I when"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3673.68,"endTime":3678.75,"body":"we negotiate with a bank or a"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3678.75,"endTime":3682.26,"body":"bonding company, they don't look"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3678.75,"endTime":3682.26,"body":"left and say, Hey, can you fly"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3682.26,"endTime":3686.91,"body":"by instruments? Right? Because I"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3682.26,"endTime":3686.91,"body":"guarantee you, if only 20% of"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3686.91,"endTime":3689.85,"body":"your pilots couldn't fly by"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3686.91,"endTime":3689.85,"body":"instruments, you're going to get"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3689.85,"endTime":3694.5,"body":"no passengers coming in by your"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3689.85,"endTime":3694.5,"body":"door. Right, exactly. Our"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3694.5,"endTime":3697.14,"body":"airplanes crash occasionally."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3694.5,"endTime":3697.14,"body":"But you know, it's it's"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3697.14,"endTime":3704.64,"body":"expected, it's expected. You"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3697.14,"endTime":3704.64,"body":"know, the way to make money in"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3704.64,"endTime":3708.93,"body":"construction is not to lose it."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3704.64,"endTime":3708.93,"body":"And you're gonna have a very"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3708.93,"endTime":3714.09,"body":"successful company on low"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3708.93,"endTime":3714.09,"body":"margins, if they've got very"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3714.09,"endTime":3719.94,"body":"few, if any, losing jobs again."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3714.09,"endTime":3719.94,"body":"And that's the whole market, in"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3719.94,"endTime":3725.01,"body":"my opinion of a of a, of a great"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3719.94,"endTime":3725.01,"body":"business. Not that they can make"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3725.01,"endTime":3730.53,"body":"money, but that they don't lose"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3725.01,"endTime":3730.53,"body":"money. We're in we're in the age"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3730.53,"endTime":3735.33,"body":"of accountability, and part of"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3730.53,"endTime":3735.33,"body":"the age of accountability. And"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3735.36,"endTime":3741.3,"body":"we're in the age of quantitative"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3735.36,"endTime":3741.3,"body":"decision making. Even and the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3741.33,"endTime":3746.16,"body":"expectation is that we can fly"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3741.33,"endTime":3746.16,"body":"by instruments. And by"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3746.19,"endTime":3748.68,"body":"instruments more than one sheet"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3746.19,"endTime":3748.68,"body":"of graph paper on the wall with"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3748.68,"endTime":3752.28,"body":"a pin in it. All right, at least"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3748.68,"endTime":3752.28,"body":"one sheet of paper on the wall"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3752.28,"endTime":3753.0,"body":"with a pin in it."},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3753.81,"endTime":3756.36,"body":"Right, exactly."},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3753.81,"endTime":3756.36,"body":"That that's that's fine by"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3756.36,"endTime":3759.15,"body":"instrument, but you're still in"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3756.36,"endTime":3759.15,"body":"a single a single engine"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3759.15,"endTime":3763.14,"body":"airplane. Yeah. Yeah. Well,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3759.15,"endTime":3763.14,"body":"great. Well, thank you for"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3763.14,"endTime":3767.61,"body":"today. And we'll get back"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3763.14,"endTime":3767.61,"body":"together, I'm sure soon. And"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3768.0,"endTime":3771.42,"body":"we'll, we'll continue on on the"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3768.0,"endTime":3771.42,"body":"book. I'm excited to continue"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3771.42,"endTime":3772.77,"body":"reading the new revision."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3773.34,"endTime":3775.86,"body":"Well, I've got"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3773.34,"endTime":3775.86,"body":"through to chapter 16. And"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3775.86,"endTime":3778.89,"body":"that's as many chapters as the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3775.86,"endTime":3778.89,"body":"second edition is going to have."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3778.89,"endTime":3783.99,"body":"So it's now a matter of proofing"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3778.89,"endTime":3783.99,"body":"and tidying. Well, great. We"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3783.99,"endTime":3788.1,"body":"will be talking soon. Thank you,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3783.99,"endTime":3788.1,"body":"Mike. Not at all. Not at all."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3788.67,"endTime":3793.02,"body":"Pleasure. That's it for today,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3788.67,"endTime":3793.02,"body":"folks. See you next time."}]}