{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":0.6,"endTime":3.21,"body":"Welcome to"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":0.6,"endTime":3.21,"body":"yellow iron, black smoke, your"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3.21,"endTime":5.79,"body":"podcast for engaging"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3.21,"endTime":5.79,"body":"conversation on Construction"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":5.82,"endTime":9.03,"body":"Equipment Economics and"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":5.82,"endTime":9.03,"body":"Management. I'm Michael Kelley,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":9.03,"endTime":9.72,"body":"your host."},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":11.19,"endTime":15.03,"body":"In today's episode, Mike Vorster"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":11.19,"endTime":15.03,"body":"and I talk about rate estimation"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":15.03,"endTime":18.12,"body":"and all the complications there"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":15.03,"endTime":18.12,"body":"of, we also talk about the six"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":18.12,"endTime":21.36,"body":"month boot camp that I'm doing,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":18.12,"endTime":21.36,"body":"which is a hands on approach the"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":21.36,"endTime":25.98,"body":"CMP way for VISTA by viewpoint"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":21.36,"endTime":25.98,"body":"users, and we talk about"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":26.01,"endTime":29.43,"body":"important concepts from Mike's"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":26.01,"endTime":29.43,"body":"rebuilt book construction"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":29.43,"endTime":32.22,"body":"equipment, economics, version"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":29.43,"endTime":32.22,"body":"two, be sure to check out his"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":32.22,"endTime":36.33,"body":"book on his website at"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":32.22,"endTime":36.33,"body":"cempcentral.com. Hello, Mike,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":36.51,"endTime":40.11,"body":"good to have you here to talk"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":36.51,"endTime":40.11,"body":"about chapter six, your new"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":40.11,"endTime":40.65,"body":"book,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":41.22,"endTime":43.44,"body":"Michael, always a"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":41.22,"endTime":43.44,"body":"pleasure to be with you. And"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":43.5,"endTime":46.92,"body":"wonderful to be with everybody."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":43.5,"endTime":46.92,"body":"Again, it's another super super"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":46.92,"endTime":50.79,"body":"day in in southern Florida,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":46.92,"endTime":50.79,"body":"where we're just so glad it"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":50.79,"endTime":54.06,"body":"actually rained yesterday. But"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":50.79,"endTime":54.06,"body":"you know, we're from the Pacific"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":54.06,"endTime":56.52,"body":"Northwest. And so whenever it"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":54.06,"endTime":56.52,"body":"doesn't rain for a couple of"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":56.52,"endTime":59.37,"body":"weeks, we start looking around"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":56.52,"endTime":59.37,"body":"like the sky is falling. But I"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":59.37,"endTime":63.87,"body":"have here a copy of your new"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":59.37,"endTime":63.87,"body":"book. Thank you for that. Thank"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":63.9,"endTime":67.56,"body":"you again, for that. I've just"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":63.9,"endTime":67.56,"body":"been, I've been thumbing through"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":67.56,"endTime":67.86,"body":"it."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":69.25,"endTime":75.04,"body":"Every opportunity. So it's, so"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":69.25,"endTime":75.04,"body":"it's so it's out. It's out. So"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":75.04,"endTime":78.58,"body":"I'm very excited about it. Of"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":75.04,"endTime":78.58,"body":"course for the flurry of it"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":78.58,"endTime":83.5,"body":"coming up sales are good, which"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":78.58,"endTime":83.5,"body":"is cool. And but very pleased"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":83.5,"endTime":87.46,"body":"that it's art. It's sort of how"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":83.5,"endTime":87.46,"body":"shall I say, a capturing of many"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":87.46,"endTime":91.63,"body":"years and capturing of lots and"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":87.46,"endTime":91.63,"body":"lots of experience on the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":91.63,"endTime":93.28,"body":"subject? It's good to have it"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":91.63,"endTime":93.28,"body":"out."},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":93.55,"endTime":95.8,"body":"How has the"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":93.55,"endTime":95.8,"body":"response been? Have you have you"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":95.8,"endTime":98.62,"body":"heard gotten the feedback from"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":95.8,"endTime":98.62,"body":"from all your old friends that"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":98.62,"endTime":99.67,"body":"have read the first book?"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":101.07,"endTime":103.95,"body":"Yeah, what I'm"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":101.07,"endTime":103.95,"body":"hearing and what everybody in"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":103.95,"endTime":107.64,"body":"many ways I was hoping they were"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":103.95,"endTime":107.64,"body":"going to say is that the format"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":107.64,"endTime":112.86,"body":"for the new book is very good,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":107.64,"endTime":112.86,"body":"because I focused it on trying"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":112.86,"endTime":117.0,"body":"to, to ensure implementation,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":112.86,"endTime":117.0,"body":"because among the things that I"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":117.18,"endTime":119.82,"body":"say in the in right in the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":117.18,"endTime":119.82,"body":"beginning of the book is that"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":120.15,"endTime":122.94,"body":"success doesn't come from your"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":120.15,"endTime":122.94,"body":"knowledge, but it comes from"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":122.94,"endTime":126.93,"body":"your ability to implement that"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":122.94,"endTime":126.93,"body":"knowledge. So in putting the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":126.93,"endTime":129.72,"body":"framework together for the book,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":126.93,"endTime":129.72,"body":"I've sort of concentrated on"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":129.72,"endTime":133.35,"body":"implementation, more than sort"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":129.72,"endTime":133.35,"body":"of the science of it."},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":133.77,"endTime":136.26,"body":"Yeah, that's,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":133.77,"endTime":136.26,"body":"that's good. And that's obvious."},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":136.26,"endTime":140.97,"body":"And it helps me a lot, because"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":136.26,"endTime":140.97,"body":"that's, that's so much of my, my"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":140.97,"endTime":144.12,"body":"role is I'm trying to implement"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":140.97,"endTime":144.12,"body":"this trying to get people to"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":144.12,"endTime":147.03,"body":"actually experience change in"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":144.12,"endTime":147.03,"body":"their company. And it's"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":147.03,"endTime":149.7,"body":"interesting, because they could"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":147.03,"endTime":149.7,"body":"they can implement just one"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":149.7,"endTime":154.98,"body":"small thing. If it's the low"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":149.7,"endTime":154.98,"body":"hanging fruit, then they can see"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":154.98,"endTime":156.3,"body":"a massive change."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":157.14,"endTime":160.74,"body":"Yeah, yeah. And,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":157.14,"endTime":160.74,"body":"and, you know, I haven't sort of"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":160.74,"endTime":163.83,"body":"said, the first thing you've got"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":160.74,"endTime":163.83,"body":"to do is, know and understand"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":163.83,"endTime":168.57,"body":"your cost. There are substantial"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":163.83,"endTime":168.57,"body":"portions of the book that relate"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":168.57,"endTime":173.49,"body":"to managing fleet age, managing"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":168.57,"endTime":173.49,"body":"utilization, and reliability,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":173.94,"endTime":178.11,"body":"which are things that one can"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":173.94,"endTime":178.11,"body":"really do. And those things, of"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":178.11,"endTime":181.08,"body":"course, give you the lead"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":178.11,"endTime":181.08,"body":"indicators, which influenced"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":181.08,"endTime":185.67,"body":"your cost. And so it's sort of,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":181.08,"endTime":185.67,"body":"yes, there's the cost accounting"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":185.67,"endTime":189.18,"body":"part of it, which you and I"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":185.67,"endTime":189.18,"body":"enjoy. But then there are the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":189.27,"endTime":193.92,"body":"practical day to day things of"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":189.27,"endTime":193.92,"body":"utilization, and reliability,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":193.92,"endTime":198.87,"body":"which I think a lot of folk can"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":193.92,"endTime":198.87,"body":"make a lot of improvement in, in"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":198.87,"endTime":202.41,"body":"those two areas. That'll"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":198.87,"endTime":202.41,"body":"massively cost."},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":202.62,"endTime":204.42,"body":"Yeah. And in"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":202.62,"endTime":204.42,"body":"fact, one of the things that I"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":204.42,"endTime":207.15,"body":"noticed just my I just read"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":204.42,"endTime":207.15,"body":"through this again, of course,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":207.15,"endTime":209.55,"body":"in preparation for today, and"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":207.15,"endTime":209.55,"body":"one of the sections, I'm sure"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":209.55,"endTime":213.99,"body":"we'll get to as a sensitivity"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":209.55,"endTime":213.99,"body":"analysis and the impact of the"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":214.02,"endTime":218.55,"body":"repair and labor costs on the"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":214.02,"endTime":218.55,"body":"rate calculation. But yeah, I'm"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":218.55,"endTime":223.44,"body":"getting I am getting ahead of"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":218.55,"endTime":223.44,"body":"myself, here. You are. But it's"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":223.44,"endTime":226.68,"body":"exactly what you said. I mean,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":223.44,"endTime":226.68,"body":"that reliability, reliability is"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":226.68,"endTime":227.91,"body":"such a critical part."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":228.479,"endTime":230.939,"body":"Well, one of the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":228.479,"endTime":230.939,"body":"things that while we bridge the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":230.939,"endTime":235.979,"body":"gap between reliability and cost"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":230.939,"endTime":235.979,"body":"is again, something which I try"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":235.979,"endTime":239.429,"body":"to make very, very clear. And"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":235.979,"endTime":239.429,"body":"that is that every down event is"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":239.429,"endTime":243.299,"body":"a cost event. Yeah. Because if"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":239.429,"endTime":243.299,"body":"you don't have any down events,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":243.929,"endTime":247.829,"body":"the big ugly cost events don't"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":243.929,"endTime":247.829,"body":"occur your day to day cost"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":247.829,"endTime":250.889,"body":"events, things like fuel and web"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":247.829,"endTime":250.889,"body":"parts, and so on and so forth,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":251.219,"endTime":255.329,"body":"which we're going to talk about,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":251.219,"endTime":255.329,"body":"of course, do occur. Every down"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":255.329,"endTime":260.339,"body":"event is a cost event is not a"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":255.329,"endTime":260.339,"body":"bad, or concept to sort of put"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":260.339,"endTime":262.259,"body":"up on the wall and live by."},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":262.59,"endTime":266.13,"body":"Yeah, well, the"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":262.59,"endTime":266.13,"body":"last couple times, we got"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":266.13,"endTime":269.79,"body":"together, we talked about costs,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":266.13,"endTime":269.79,"body":"specifically last time was"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":269.94,"endTime":273.21,"body":"chapters four and five in your"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":269.94,"endTime":273.21,"body":"book, The owning and operating"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":273.21,"endTime":278.55,"body":"costs. And you know, it's so"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":273.21,"endTime":278.55,"body":"interesting because a lot of my"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":278.55,"endTime":282.33,"body":"job, I feel like when I'm"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":278.55,"endTime":282.33,"body":"working with VISTA customers, is"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":282.57,"endTime":286.74,"body":"helping them just set up their"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":282.57,"endTime":286.74,"body":"accounting software so that they"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":286.74,"endTime":290.16,"body":"can even find these cuts. But"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":286.74,"endTime":290.16,"body":"before we get into this rate"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":290.16,"endTime":292.92,"body":"calculation and the whole the"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":290.16,"endTime":292.92,"body":"whole thing here, maybe it'd be"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":292.92,"endTime":298.05,"body":"good for us to recap some of"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":292.92,"endTime":298.05,"body":"your thoughts on why we have"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":298.05,"endTime":301.47,"body":"these two different categories."},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":298.05,"endTime":301.47,"body":"To choose different buckets of"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":301.5,"endTime":303.33,"body":"cost and why we track them that"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":301.5,"endTime":303.33,"body":"way."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":304.23,"endTime":306.99,"body":"Yeah, owning costs"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":304.23,"endTime":306.99,"body":"and operating costs. And"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":306.99,"endTime":310.86,"body":"frankly, I don't know how you"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":306.99,"endTime":310.86,"body":"can manage the cost aspects of"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":310.86,"endTime":315.45,"body":"the fleet. If you don't make a"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":310.86,"endTime":315.45,"body":"very clear distinction between"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":315.45,"endTime":318.75,"body":"owning and operating costs, it's"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":315.45,"endTime":318.75,"body":"kind of mixing oil and water"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":318.75,"endTime":325.41,"body":"run. Because they are so so. So"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":318.75,"endTime":325.41,"body":"very different in each owning"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":325.41,"endTime":329.73,"body":"cost and operating costs, each"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":325.41,"endTime":329.73,"body":"needs to be managed with the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":329.82,"endTime":333.72,"body":"skill care and attention it"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":329.82,"endTime":333.72,"body":"deserves owning costs, mostly"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":333.72,"endTime":337.14,"body":"fixed when you make the deal."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":333.72,"endTime":337.14,"body":"Alright. And they are mostly"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":337.14,"endTime":340.89,"body":"fixed costs. And there's little"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":337.14,"endTime":340.89,"body":"risk, little uncertainty with"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":340.89,"endTime":344.82,"body":"regards to only cost except, of"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":340.89,"endTime":344.82,"body":"course, ownership period, and"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":344.82,"endTime":350.91,"body":"utilization, right? operating"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":344.82,"endTime":350.91,"body":"costs are variable costs, and"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":350.91,"endTime":355.05,"body":"they depend on your day to day"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":350.91,"endTime":355.05,"body":"decisions. And so operating"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":355.05,"endTime":361.5,"body":"costs are highly variable,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":355.05,"endTime":361.5,"body":"variable costs. And they, they"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":361.5,"endTime":365.01,"body":"really are so so so different,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":361.5,"endTime":365.01,"body":"you have to understand how they"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":365.01,"endTime":369.42,"body":"behave. And you have to"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":365.01,"endTime":369.42,"body":"understand the risks that are"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":369.42,"endTime":373.86,"body":"associated with the two of them."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":369.42,"endTime":373.86,"body":"And, you know, I think the only"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":373.86,"endTime":378.21,"body":"way you have any chance at all"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":373.86,"endTime":378.21,"body":"of understanding and managing"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":378.36,"endTime":383.31,"body":"quipment cost is by focusing"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":378.36,"endTime":383.31,"body":"independently on owning costs"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":383.34,"endTime":385.44,"body":"and operating costs. Yep. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":385.44,"endTime":387.69,"body":"I think so. And"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":385.44,"endTime":387.69,"body":"what's interesting is, you say,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":387.72,"endTime":391.17,"body":"you don't know how people could"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":387.72,"endTime":391.17,"body":"do it without it. Well, they do"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":391.17,"endTime":395.46,"body":"it by gut feel. But when you"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":391.17,"endTime":395.46,"body":"actually talk to them, and you"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":395.46,"endTime":400.77,"body":"listen to what they're saying,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":395.46,"endTime":400.77,"body":"even their gut feel when the you"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":400.77,"endTime":403.86,"body":"know, the guys that are bidding"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":400.77,"endTime":403.86,"body":"on the yellow tablets, and"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":403.86,"endTime":406.86,"body":"they're standing in the on the"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":403.86,"endTime":406.86,"body":"driveway of their customer, and"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":406.86,"endTime":408.96,"body":"they're scribbling things down,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":406.86,"endTime":408.96,"body":"and then they hand of a kind of"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":408.96,"endTime":412.92,"body":"a half scribbled estimate on"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":408.96,"endTime":412.92,"body":"paper, and the person chain"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":412.92,"endTime":416.97,"body":"shakes. And they say, that's"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":412.92,"endTime":416.97,"body":"good. Those guys, they have an"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":417.03,"endTime":421.14,"body":"understanding that there's two"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":417.03,"endTime":421.14,"body":"different kinds of costs, even"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":421.14,"endTime":424.2,"body":"if they haven't yet been able to"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":421.14,"endTime":424.2,"body":"articulate it. And you can hear"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":424.2,"endTime":425.97,"body":"that when they talk about their"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":424.2,"endTime":425.97,"body":"machines."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":426.98,"endTime":429.35,"body":"Yeah, I think so."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":426.98,"endTime":429.35,"body":"I think so I think that's"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":429.35,"endTime":432.59,"body":"perfectly true. But in many"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":429.35,"endTime":432.59,"body":"cases, they have that"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":432.59,"endTime":435.92,"body":"understanding. And then,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":432.59,"endTime":435.92,"body":"particularly with regards to"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":435.92,"endTime":439.79,"body":"owning costs, they sort of say,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":435.92,"endTime":439.79,"body":"Well, I don't really understand"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":439.79,"endTime":443.3,"body":"this awfully well. So I'll just"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":439.79,"endTime":443.3,"body":"leave it aside and let it be"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":443.3,"endTime":447.92,"body":"what it is, okay, I'm gonna"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":443.3,"endTime":447.92,"body":"concentrate on the things that I"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":447.92,"endTime":451.73,"body":"can influence on a day to day"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":447.92,"endTime":451.73,"body":"basis. That's my repair parts,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":451.73,"endTime":454.85,"body":"my maintenance, on fuel, oil,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":451.73,"endTime":454.85,"body":"grease, and all those sorts of"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":454.85,"endTime":459.92,"body":"things. And, and in many cases,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":454.85,"endTime":459.92,"body":"folks see owning costs, sort of"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":460.31,"endTime":463.52,"body":"let them be what they are we"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":460.31,"endTime":463.52,"body":"live with a will repay the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":463.52,"endTime":466.97,"body":"notes, repay the leases, repay"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":463.52,"endTime":466.97,"body":"the depreciation on the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":466.97,"endTime":470.42,"body":"machines, and and it's sort of a"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":466.97,"endTime":470.42,"body":"almost a black box to many"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":470.42,"endTime":470.96,"body":"people."},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":471.11,"endTime":472.37,"body":"Yeah, well,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":471.11,"endTime":472.37,"body":"let's"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":472.37,"endTime":475.64,"body":"move on to the rate calculation"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":472.37,"endTime":475.64,"body":"itself. So this, this whole"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":475.64,"endTime":480.83,"body":"chapter, chapter six, is about"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":475.64,"endTime":480.83,"body":"the rate calculation. And it's"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":480.83,"endTime":485.0,"body":"about using these ownership and"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":480.83,"endTime":485.0,"body":"operating costs that we've"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":485.03,"endTime":488.96,"body":"hopefully accumulated over some"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":485.03,"endTime":488.96,"body":"time to deter to calculate a"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":488.96,"endTime":489.38,"body":"rate."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":491.01,"endTime":493.77,"body":"Yeah, well, one of"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":491.01,"endTime":493.77,"body":"the things I need to say right"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":493.77,"endTime":498.12,"body":"up front is that the title of"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":493.77,"endTime":498.12,"body":"the chapter is wrong."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":501.24,"endTime":504.9,"body":"misleading, and I debated"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":501.24,"endTime":504.9,"body":"whether I would leave it as"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":504.9,"endTime":508.2,"body":"such, but I thought I would,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":504.9,"endTime":508.2,"body":"because that's what everybody"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":508.2,"endTime":511.71,"body":"talks about the rate"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":508.2,"endTime":511.71,"body":"calculation, right? Because it's"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":511.71,"endTime":515.37,"body":"not a calculation in anybody's"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":511.71,"endTime":515.37,"body":"way, shape or form. It is an"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":515.37,"endTime":521.07,"body":"estimate. And if I had been true"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":515.37,"endTime":521.07,"body":"to the process, I would, in"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":521.07,"endTime":525.24,"body":"fact, have title the chapter"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":521.07,"endTime":525.24,"body":"rate estimate, because it's not"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":525.24,"endTime":531.84,"body":"a calculation. It's a big, ugly,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":525.24,"endTime":531.84,"body":"hairy estimate, okay, you're"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":531.84,"endTime":536.49,"body":"going to spend a bunch of money"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":531.84,"endTime":536.49,"body":"on this machine to buy it. And"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":536.49,"endTime":540.36,"body":"over the next 567 years, you're"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":536.49,"endTime":540.36,"body":"going to own it, you're going to"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":540.42,"endTime":543.81,"body":"own it, and operate it and oil"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":540.42,"endTime":543.81,"body":"and grease it and fix it, and so"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":543.81,"endTime":549.48,"body":"on and so forth. Your rate"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":543.81,"endTime":549.48,"body":"calculation, and I'm going to we"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":549.54,"endTime":552.81,"body":"let's use the phrase, but every"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":549.54,"endTime":552.81,"body":"time we use the phrase, let's"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":552.81,"endTime":556.53,"body":"put it in quotes. The rate"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":552.81,"endTime":556.53,"body":"calculation is this hairy"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":556.53,"endTime":561.12,"body":"estimate, there's this estimate"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":556.53,"endTime":561.12,"body":"of a single dollar per hour"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":561.12,"endTime":567.39,"body":"number, which represents and"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":561.12,"endTime":567.39,"body":"kind of constand as a proxy for"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":568.11,"endTime":572.19,"body":"all those very calculated all"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":568.11,"endTime":572.19,"body":"those very cost events, you're"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":572.19,"endTime":576.3,"body":"going to experience over the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":572.19,"endTime":576.3,"body":"next five or six years. And so"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":576.57,"endTime":582.42,"body":"it really is a big estimate. And"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":576.57,"endTime":582.42,"body":"you've got to have to estimate"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":582.42,"endTime":585.51,"body":"all the transactions you're"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":582.42,"endTime":585.51,"body":"going to incur. Put them"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":585.51,"endTime":591.03,"body":"together, and then pretend you"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":585.51,"endTime":591.03,"body":"can express those transactions"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":591.06,"endTime":595.23,"body":"or on a single cost per hour"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":591.06,"endTime":595.23,"body":"number, which is scary, right?"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":595.38,"endTime":597.75,"body":"Right. Exactly."},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":595.38,"endTime":597.75,"body":"Because because there's good"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":597.75,"endTime":603.75,"body":"hard math in the end We could"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":597.75,"endTime":603.75,"body":"assume too much have too much"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":603.75,"endTime":607.89,"body":"confidence. Because all of that"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":603.75,"endTime":607.89,"body":"good heart math is simply"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":607.89,"endTime":611.91,"body":"multiplying estimates against"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":607.89,"endTime":611.91,"body":"each other and adding estimates"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":611.91,"endTime":612.66,"body":"with each other."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":613.05,"endTime":617.52,"body":"Yeah, yeah. And we"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":613.05,"endTime":617.52,"body":"mustn't let the good hard maths"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":617.52,"endTime":621.51,"body":"and the two decimal places,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":617.52,"endTime":621.51,"body":"convinces that it's anything"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":621.54,"endTime":626.73,"body":"other than an estimate. Right"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":621.54,"endTime":626.73,"body":"above or above all, this comes"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":626.73,"endTime":632.01,"body":"back to the very, very"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":626.73,"endTime":632.01,"body":"fundamental process of all"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":632.01,"endTime":634.92,"body":"estimating whether it's"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":632.01,"endTime":634.92,"body":"equipment rate cut, estimating,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":634.92,"endTime":640.38,"body":"or whether it's job estimating"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":634.92,"endTime":640.38,"body":"for bidding purposes, that the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":640.38,"endTime":644.79,"body":"accuracy and quality of your"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":640.38,"endTime":644.79,"body":"estimate doesn't come from the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":644.79,"endTime":649.47,"body":"complexity of the way you crunch"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":644.79,"endTime":649.47,"body":"the numbers, it becomes from the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":649.47,"endTime":654.12,"body":"quality of your estimates,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":649.47,"endTime":654.12,"body":"right, as with bidding, you're"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":654.12,"endTime":657.09,"body":"going to have the most"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":654.12,"endTime":657.09,"body":"sophisticated computer program"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":657.09,"endTime":660.93,"body":"in the world to calculate your"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":657.09,"endTime":660.93,"body":"your estimated net cost of the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":660.93,"endTime":664.02,"body":"job. But if you get all your"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":660.93,"endTime":664.02,"body":"production rates wrong, and if"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":664.02,"endTime":667.74,"body":"you get all your resource costs"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":664.02,"endTime":667.74,"body":"wrong, the mathematics is not"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":667.74,"endTime":671.01,"body":"going to help you out of that"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":667.74,"endTime":671.01,"body":"problem with the equipment rate"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":671.01,"endTime":675.21,"body":"calculations, the mathematics is"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":671.01,"endTime":675.21,"body":"not going to help you out of a"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":675.21,"endTime":679.62,"body":"problem. Yeah, associated with"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":675.21,"endTime":679.62,"body":"not having good estimates,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":679.77,"endTime":680.13,"body":"right? I"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":680.13,"endTime":682.77,"body":"mean, because in"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":680.13,"endTime":682.77,"body":"the end, we're like you said"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":682.8,"endTime":685.95,"body":"that there's a bunch of cost"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":682.8,"endTime":685.95,"body":"events that are going to happen"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":685.98,"endTime":689.37,"body":"into the future. If you bought a"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":685.98,"endTime":689.37,"body":"brand new machine, you might"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":689.37,"endTime":693.39,"body":"have that machine for many years"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":689.37,"endTime":693.39,"body":"and 10,000 hours, and you're"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":693.39,"endTime":696.03,"body":"going to have some cost events"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":693.39,"endTime":696.03,"body":"that happen for many years. And"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":696.03,"endTime":700.11,"body":"it's it's impossible to know,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":696.03,"endTime":700.11,"body":"within the degree of certainty"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":700.41,"endTime":703.35,"body":"what those cost events are. So"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":700.41,"endTime":703.35,"body":"we're estimating those cost"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":703.35,"endTime":708.48,"body":"events so that we can charge the"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":703.35,"endTime":708.48,"body":"jobs appropriately. That's"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":708.48,"endTime":711.66,"body":"that's the primary job here with"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":708.48,"endTime":711.66,"body":"the recalculation, right."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":712.23,"endTime":714.99,"body":"Right. And we must"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":712.23,"endTime":714.99,"body":"take care and right up front, we"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":714.99,"endTime":719.1,"body":"must understand that the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":714.99,"endTime":719.1,"body":"mathematics or the calculation"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":719.1,"endTime":723.48,"body":"methodology that we wrapped"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":719.1,"endTime":723.48,"body":"these estimates up in, can"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":723.48,"endTime":726.54,"body":"improve the quality of the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":723.48,"endTime":726.54,"body":"estimates, right, many people"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":726.54,"endTime":730.59,"body":"who sort of think about"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":726.54,"endTime":730.59,"body":"estimating or great estimating"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":730.59,"endTime":733.62,"body":"or rate calculation, as we've"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":730.59,"endTime":733.62,"body":"said, we're going to call it in"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":733.62,"endTime":736.83,"body":"a black box, we'll do it in a"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":733.62,"endTime":736.83,"body":"black box produce these inputs"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":736.83,"endTime":742.05,"body":"and outcomes, this output, they"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":736.83,"endTime":742.05,"body":"lose sight of the fact that"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":742.05,"endTime":747.66,"body":"those inputs to the calculation"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":742.05,"endTime":747.66,"body":"are all big, hairy, ugly"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":747.72,"endTime":750.93,"body":"estimates. Now we can use all"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":747.72,"endTime":750.93,"body":"our experience to improve them."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":751.77,"endTime":754.56,"body":"There are in the bottom line"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":751.77,"endTime":754.56,"body":"their estimates, right."},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":754.59,"endTime":755.82,"body":"That's right."},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":754.59,"endTime":755.82,"body":"And, and that's what's"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":755.82,"endTime":759.51,"body":"interesting, you hit on an"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":755.82,"endTime":759.51,"body":"interesting point there, using"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":759.51,"endTime":765.24,"body":"your experience, does help us"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":759.51,"endTime":765.24,"body":"validate our projections into"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":765.24,"endTime":768.9,"body":"the future. But I see that all"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":765.24,"endTime":768.9,"body":"the time where people are"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":768.9,"endTime":772.11,"body":"looking back, and they're almost"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":768.9,"endTime":772.11,"body":"like blindly saying, This is"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":772.11,"endTime":776.58,"body":"what we've experienced with all"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":772.11,"endTime":776.58,"body":"of our john deere 250s. And so"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":776.58,"endTime":780.99,"body":"therefore, that's our cost. And"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":776.58,"endTime":780.99,"body":"then you say, well, but wait,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":780.99,"endTime":784.11,"body":"didn't you have that big gold"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":780.99,"endTime":784.11,"body":"mine stripping operation where?"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":784.59,"endTime":788.46,"body":"And they said, Well, yeah, we"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":784.59,"endTime":788.46,"body":"were running three shifts? Well,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":788.49,"endTime":792.15,"body":"okay, let's let's, is that, is"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":788.49,"endTime":792.15,"body":"that going to continue in the"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":792.15,"endTime":795.72,"body":"future? And there's no, we're"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":792.15,"endTime":795.72,"body":"actually moving that over that,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":795.75,"endTime":798.69,"body":"you know, most of our work for"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":795.75,"endTime":798.69,"body":"the big excavators for that size"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":798.69,"endTime":802.41,"body":"excavators is going to be in our"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":798.69,"endTime":802.41,"body":"commercial division. And so then"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":802.44,"endTime":807.3,"body":"you need to think through that."},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":802.44,"endTime":807.3,"body":"Not that it's not, that means"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":807.3,"endTime":812.49,"body":"that the history is irrelevant."},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":807.3,"endTime":812.49,"body":"It just means that it may be not"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":812.52,"endTime":816.3,"body":"applicable to the next period of"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":812.52,"endTime":816.3,"body":"life for that class of"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":816.3,"endTime":816.9,"body":"excavator."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":817.41,"endTime":821.22,"body":"Yeah, we must be"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":817.41,"endTime":821.22,"body":"the student of our experience,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":821.52,"endTime":825.33,"body":"not the slave of our experience."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":821.52,"endTime":825.33,"body":"All right. And that's, that's a"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":825.33,"endTime":828.78,"body":"whole brand new one. And that's"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":825.33,"endTime":828.78,"body":"essentially what you were saying"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":828.78,"endTime":833.58,"body":"is that a lot of people are tend"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":828.78,"endTime":833.58,"body":"to be sort of slaves of their"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":833.58,"endTime":837.48,"body":"experience, and just take their"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":833.58,"endTime":837.48,"body":"experience for what it is. We"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":837.48,"endTime":840.24,"body":"must take our experience. It's"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":837.48,"endTime":840.24,"body":"something that teaches us We"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":840.24,"endTime":842.67,"body":"must be a student of our"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":840.24,"endTime":842.67,"body":"experience. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":842.73,"endTime":845.73,"body":"yeah. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":842.73,"endTime":845.73,"body":"Yeah. Interesting. Well, in the"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":845.73,"endTime":849.72,"body":"book, you do have proposed"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":845.73,"endTime":849.72,"body":"format for the calculation"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":849.72,"endTime":853.26,"body":"itself, specifically for the"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":849.72,"endTime":853.26,"body":"heart math that we're talking"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":853.26,"endTime":856.89,"body":"about. It seems like maybe, you"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":853.26,"endTime":856.89,"body":"know, this is an interesting"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":856.92,"endTime":859.83,"body":"format for this, of course,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":856.92,"endTime":859.83,"body":"people have have the access to"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":859.83,"endTime":863.7,"body":"the book in a lot of cases, and"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":859.83,"endTime":863.7,"body":"they can see things online, etc."},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":863.7,"endTime":868.17,"body":"But in an audio only format"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":863.7,"endTime":868.17,"body":"here, maybe you can just take it"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":868.17,"endTime":871.2,"body":"through, take us through that"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":868.17,"endTime":871.2,"body":"calculation, kind of at a high"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":871.2,"endTime":872.43,"body":"level, the macro"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":872.39,"endTime":872.75,"body":"level."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":873.29,"endTime":877.25,"body":"Yeah. Well, the,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":873.29,"endTime":877.25,"body":"it's you honor it by saying"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":877.25,"endTime":881.57,"body":"there's math, it's just"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":877.25,"endTime":881.57,"body":"arithmetic, right? It's just a"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":881.57,"endTime":885.5,"body":"spreadsheet. And it's a very"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":881.57,"endTime":885.5,"body":"standard format, most of the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":885.5,"endTime":890.75,"body":"OEMs if not all the OEMs some"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":885.5,"endTime":890.75,"body":"rate estimating rate calculating"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":890.75,"endTime":894.05,"body":"format, there will look"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":890.75,"endTime":894.05,"body":"essentially alike. There are"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":894.05,"endTime":897.62,"body":"some folk who produce black"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":894.05,"endTime":897.62,"body":"boxes, like I've said, Give me"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":897.62,"endTime":901.28,"body":"these numbers, and I'll add them"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":897.62,"endTime":901.28,"body":"subtract them multiply and"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":901.28,"endTime":906.02,"body":"divide them behind a shield of"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":901.28,"endTime":906.02,"body":"science, if you wish. And then"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":906.05,"endTime":910.04,"body":"if you're the result, but I"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":906.05,"endTime":910.04,"body":"don't like black boxes at all,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":910.04,"endTime":914.12,"body":"for things like this, I like to"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":910.04,"endTime":914.12,"body":"flat openness of a spreadsheet."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":914.15,"endTime":917.9,"body":"So the format that sits in the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":914.15,"endTime":917.9,"body":"book is nothing new, it's"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":917.9,"endTime":921.44,"body":"nothing special. It's nothing"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":917.9,"endTime":921.44,"body":"new, you unique. But of course,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":921.44,"endTime":925.97,"body":"I think it's nicely it's nicely"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":921.44,"endTime":925.97,"body":"put together. And how I put it"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":925.97,"endTime":932.36,"body":"together is in in four pieces,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":925.97,"endTime":932.36,"body":"really, because the first piece"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":932.36,"endTime":936.11,"body":"of the of the calculation, or"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":932.36,"endTime":936.11,"body":"the first piece of the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":936.11,"endTime":939.68,"body":"estimating process, is that"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":936.11,"endTime":939.68,"body":"you've got to make some"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":939.68,"endTime":946.46,"body":"assumptions as to the ownership"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":939.68,"endTime":946.46,"body":"period of the machine. Okay. And"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":946.46,"endTime":950.48,"body":"we'll look back and talk about"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":946.46,"endTime":950.48,"body":"that later, then you have to"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":950.48,"endTime":954.23,"body":"make some assumptions, and"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":950.48,"endTime":954.23,"body":"estimates regarding your owning"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":954.23,"endTime":959.48,"body":"costs. And they require certain"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":954.23,"endTime":959.48,"body":"skills and aptitudes and certain"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":959.48,"endTime":964.73,"body":"information, then, of course,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":959.48,"endTime":964.73,"body":"are the operating costs, where a"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":964.73,"endTime":968.36,"body":"lot of people think that it that"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":964.73,"endTime":968.36,"body":"it really is in a substantial"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":968.36,"endTime":971.27,"body":"portion of it is there. But"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":968.36,"endTime":971.27,"body":"those requires skills and"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":971.27,"endTime":974.63,"body":"assumptions and methodologies,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":971.27,"endTime":974.63,"body":"and so on and so forth. And then"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":974.63,"endTime":978.98,"body":"of course, there's the third of"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":974.63,"endTime":978.98,"body":"the big three, which is fuel in"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":978.98,"endTime":983.18,"body":"the estimating of your of your"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":978.98,"endTime":983.18,"body":"fuel costs. So when I look at"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":983.18,"endTime":986.15,"body":"the format, if we want to look"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":983.18,"endTime":986.15,"body":"at the format at a macro level,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":986.63,"endTime":990.29,"body":"it starts by saying what are our"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":986.63,"endTime":990.29,"body":"ownership period assumptions?"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":990.77,"endTime":993.62,"body":"What are our earning cost"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":990.77,"endTime":993.62,"body":"assumptions and calculations?"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":993.65,"endTime":997.1,"body":"What are our operating cost,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":993.65,"endTime":997.1,"body":"assumptions and calculations?"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":997.1,"endTime":1001.63,"body":"And then fuel and indirect and"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":997.1,"endTime":1001.63,"body":"those sorts of things come at"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1001.63,"endTime":1002.2,"body":"the end?"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1002.98,"endTime":1006.25,"body":"Well, yeah, it's"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1002.98,"endTime":1006.25,"body":"just it's kind of funny, because"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1006.25,"endTime":1009.73,"body":"I said, I started out by saying,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1006.25,"endTime":1009.73,"body":"describe the math to me. And"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1009.76,"endTime":1012.34,"body":"what you described instead was"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1009.76,"endTime":1012.34,"body":"all of the assumptions, which"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1012.34,"endTime":1015.1,"body":"really highlights the fact that"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1012.34,"endTime":1015.1,"body":"this is an estimate, not a"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1015.1,"endTime":1016.0,"body":"calculation."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1016.72,"endTime":1019.69,"body":"Yep, yep. Yep."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1016.72,"endTime":1019.69,"body":"It's the assumptions. I don't"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1019.69,"endTime":1023.14,"body":"find anything fascinating about"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1019.69,"endTime":1023.14,"body":"adding, subtracting, multiplying"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1023.14,"endTime":1027.52,"body":"and dividing for a 10 numbers,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1023.14,"endTime":1027.52,"body":"and you can do four things to 10"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1027.52,"endTime":1032.2,"body":"numbers. So that's what it is."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1027.52,"endTime":1032.2,"body":"And the guys that did Excel"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1032.2,"endTime":1036.7,"body":"helped us an awful lot. Do that"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1032.2,"endTime":1036.7,"body":"with speed and precision. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1038.05,"endTime":1041.74,"body":"We make our assumptions and then"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1038.05,"endTime":1041.74,"body":"let let the spreadsheet do the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1041.74,"endTime":1042.82,"body":"numbers for us. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1043.03,"endTime":1044.74,"body":"Well, let's"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1043.03,"endTime":1044.74,"body":"let's dive into the assumptions."},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1044.74,"endTime":1050.05,"body":"And you said first, that the"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1044.74,"endTime":1050.05,"body":"ownership period is one of the"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1050.05,"endTime":1052.36,"body":"major assumptions that has to go"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1050.05,"endTime":1052.36,"body":"into this."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1052.81,"endTime":1055.81,"body":"Yeah, yeah. Well,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1052.81,"endTime":1055.81,"body":"that's, that's one of the ones"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1055.81,"endTime":1062.05,"body":"that the folk don't really grasp"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1055.81,"endTime":1062.05,"body":"and don't really understand."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1062.65,"endTime":1066.76,"body":"Because most of the red"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1062.65,"endTime":1066.76,"body":"calculation format stock, but"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1066.76,"endTime":1069.79,"body":"right at the top, as does mine,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1066.76,"endTime":1069.79,"body":"you know, how long are you going"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1069.79,"endTime":1074.5,"body":"to keep the machine? Well, that"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1069.79,"endTime":1074.5,"body":"is a big, ugly, hairy estimate."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1074.77,"endTime":1079.99,"body":"And it has this huge impact on"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1074.77,"endTime":1079.99,"body":"owning costs. Okay, particularly"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1080.41,"endTime":1087.25,"body":"on residual market value. Then,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1080.41,"endTime":1087.25,"body":"the next one is and how many"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1087.25,"endTime":1090.94,"body":"hours do you think it's going to"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1087.25,"endTime":1090.94,"body":"work? Well, that's a big hairy"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1090.94,"endTime":1095.62,"body":"estimate. And it has this huge"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1090.94,"endTime":1095.62,"body":"impact on particularly repair"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1095.62,"endTime":1099.31,"body":"parts and labor, because if you"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1095.62,"endTime":1099.31,"body":"keep many hours, you're going to"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1099.31,"endTime":1105.25,"body":"be spending on repair parts and"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1099.31,"endTime":1105.25,"body":"labor at a huge, huge thing. And"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1105.25,"endTime":1110.59,"body":"then, of course, the scariest"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1105.25,"endTime":1110.59,"body":"estimate of war is your"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1110.59,"endTime":1114.91,"body":"utilization, which is of course,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1110.59,"endTime":1114.91,"body":"your ownership period, hours"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1114.91,"endTime":1118.54,"body":"divided by your estimated"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1114.91,"endTime":1118.54,"body":"ownership period in years, hours"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1118.54,"endTime":1123.61,"body":"per year. All right. Now, these"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1118.54,"endTime":1123.61,"body":"ownership estimates, ownership"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1123.61,"endTime":1128.02,"body":"period estimates and"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1123.61,"endTime":1128.02,"body":"assumptions, they affect almost"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1128.05,"endTime":1133.48,"body":"everything that follows. Okay."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1128.05,"endTime":1133.48,"body":"And then I frequently smile when"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1133.48,"endTime":1137.83,"body":"I talk with folk on this"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1133.48,"endTime":1137.83,"body":"subject. And that is that you"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1137.83,"endTime":1141.43,"body":"make these estimates upfront in"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1137.83,"endTime":1141.43,"body":"the first couple of minutes of"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1141.43,"endTime":1146.44,"body":"your of the process. And then"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1141.43,"endTime":1146.44,"body":"you take them as sacred"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1146.71,"endTime":1151.12,"body":"throughout the rest of the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1146.71,"endTime":1151.12,"body":"calculation. Alright. You forget"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1151.54,"endTime":1156.19,"body":"the the risks associated the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1151.54,"endTime":1156.19,"body":"uncertainties associated with"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1156.19,"endTime":1159.1,"body":"the ownership period"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1156.19,"endTime":1159.1,"body":"assumptions, and bake those"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1159.1,"endTime":1164.26,"body":"risks and uncertainties into the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1159.1,"endTime":1164.26,"body":"rest of the calculation. All"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1164.26,"endTime":1168.46,"body":"right. And then the other one,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1164.26,"endTime":1168.46,"body":"of course, is you make this"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1168.49,"endTime":1172.87,"body":"ownership period. assumption,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1168.49,"endTime":1172.87,"body":"how close is it to the optimum"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1172.96,"endTime":1175.96,"body":"ownership period? In other"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1172.96,"endTime":1175.96,"body":"words, how close is it to the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1175.96,"endTime":1180.58,"body":"sweet spot? Right, or how close"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1175.96,"endTime":1180.58,"body":"is it just to something you"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1180.58,"endTime":1187.66,"body":"thought it was, and so I can't"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1180.58,"endTime":1187.66,"body":"overestimate the importance of"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1188.23,"endTime":1193.51,"body":"what in my format is line eight,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1188.23,"endTime":1193.51,"body":"or a line eight appears in"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1193.51,"endTime":1198.76,"body":"almost every single one of the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1193.51,"endTime":1198.76,"body":"subsequent lines. You make the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1198.76,"endTime":1202.81,"body":"estimates early You make the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1198.76,"endTime":1202.81,"body":"estimates when you kind of"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1203.71,"endTime":1209.35,"body":"confident you bake those"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1203.71,"endTime":1209.35,"body":"estimates into everything else"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1209.35,"endTime":1212.2,"body":"that follow. So ownership"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1209.35,"endTime":1212.2,"body":"period, huge issue."},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1212.53,"endTime":1216.34,"body":"So so let me"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1212.53,"endTime":1216.34,"body":"play with some math here just to"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1216.49,"endTime":1220.21,"body":"see if I understand correctly,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1216.49,"endTime":1220.21,"body":"because let's say you have a"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1220.24,"endTime":1223.57,"body":"machine you bought for $120,000,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1220.24,"endTime":1223.57,"body":"you assume you're gonna sell it"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1223.57,"endTime":1226.87,"body":"after 10 years, and you're gonna"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1223.57,"endTime":1226.87,"body":"have a residual market value of"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1226.87,"endTime":1231.61,"body":"$20,000. Right? So now you have"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1226.87,"endTime":1231.61,"body":"$100,000 worth of costs that"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1231.61,"endTime":1235.33,"body":"you're going to experience over"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1231.61,"endTime":1235.33,"body":"the life of the machine. And you"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1235.33,"endTime":1237.85,"body":"know, traditional accounting"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1235.33,"endTime":1237.85,"body":"depreciation, it's while you"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1237.85,"endTime":1240.04,"body":"divide that by the number of"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1237.85,"endTime":1240.04,"body":"months, you say it's 10 years,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1240.04,"endTime":1245.08,"body":"right? You're gonna experience"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1240.04,"endTime":1245.08,"body":"$10,000 cost per year, the, the"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1245.11,"endTime":1248.38,"body":"wrinkle that you really added"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1245.11,"endTime":1248.38,"body":"into this was, well, what's the"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1248.38,"endTime":1251.5,"body":"utilization? Or how many hours"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1248.38,"endTime":1251.5,"body":"are you going to be running"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1251.5,"endTime":1256.81,"body":"that, because we know that if"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1251.5,"endTime":1256.81,"body":"we're running that machine, 2000"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1256.84,"endTime":1261.7,"body":"hours a year, right, and we're"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1256.84,"endTime":1261.7,"body":"going to get to 10,000 hours on"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1261.7,"endTime":1265.54,"body":"that machine by year five, it"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1261.7,"endTime":1265.54,"body":"First of all, it's unlikely that"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1265.54,"endTime":1268.69,"body":"it's going to get to 20,000"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1265.54,"endTime":1268.69,"body":"hours, you know, depending on"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1268.69,"endTime":1271.06,"body":"the type of machine, but it's"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1268.69,"endTime":1271.06,"body":"unlikely it's going to get to"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1271.06,"endTime":1275.35,"body":"20,000 hours, and not have"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1271.06,"endTime":1275.35,"body":"ballooning operating costs. But"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1275.86,"endTime":1281.29,"body":"second, it's unlikely that when"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1275.86,"endTime":1281.29,"body":"it gets to that 10 year mark, if"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1281.29,"endTime":1284.26,"body":"it did have 20,000 hours, that"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1281.29,"endTime":1284.26,"body":"it would have a residual market"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1284.47,"endTime":1286.39,"body":"value of anything more than"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1284.47,"endTime":1286.39,"body":"scrap metal."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1287.95,"endTime":1291.1,"body":"Everything's"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1287.95,"endTime":1291.1,"body":"moving all the time. And and the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1291.1,"endTime":1294.85,"body":"thing that that scares me about"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1291.1,"endTime":1294.85,"body":"what you've just said, is that"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1295.15,"endTime":1299.92,"body":"we take these largely fixed when"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1295.15,"endTime":1299.92,"body":"you ink the deal, fixed costs"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1300.01,"endTime":1304.81,"body":"them, and we express them in"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1300.01,"endTime":1304.81,"body":"dollars per hour."},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1305.05,"endTime":1305.38,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1305.41,"endTime":1308.08,"body":"so what we're"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1305.41,"endTime":1308.08,"body":"actually doing, and if I can"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1308.08,"endTime":1311.38,"body":"remember some of my management"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1308.08,"endTime":1311.38,"body":"accounting, what we're actually"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1311.38,"endTime":1315.61,"body":"doing is we very realizing a"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1311.38,"endTime":1315.61,"body":"fixed cost. And one of the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1315.61,"endTime":1320.95,"body":"things we absolutely must know,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1315.61,"endTime":1320.95,"body":"is that very realizing a fixed"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1320.95,"endTime":1327.97,"body":"cost is very risky process. And"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1320.95,"endTime":1327.97,"body":"so expressing our fixed cost of"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1327.97,"endTime":1332.71,"body":"ownership, however difficult it"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1327.97,"endTime":1332.71,"body":"may be to estimate them, but"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1332.71,"endTime":1335.83,"body":"then expressing or very"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1332.71,"endTime":1335.83,"body":"realizing those fixed costs of"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1335.83,"endTime":1340.03,"body":"ownership and expressing them as"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1335.83,"endTime":1340.03,"body":"a cost per our way. That's high"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1340.03,"endTime":1343.48,"body":"risk stuff. Okay, that's high"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1340.03,"endTime":1343.48,"body":"risk stuff. And we do it"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1343.54,"endTime":1347.68,"body":"subconsciously, in the right"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1343.54,"endTime":1347.68,"body":"calculation."},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1348.08,"endTime":1351.38,"body":"Right, right."},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1348.08,"endTime":1351.38,"body":"And essentially, what we're"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1351.38,"endTime":1355.49,"body":"trying to do with this rate"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1351.38,"endTime":1355.49,"body":"calculation is - is to get our"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1355.49,"endTime":1360.95,"body":"costs back to recover our costs,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1355.49,"endTime":1360.95,"body":"we want to have a $0 end result."},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1361.28,"endTime":1366.14,"body":"So then we have the we've"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1361.28,"endTime":1366.14,"body":"recovered from the jobs, all of"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1366.14,"endTime":1368.87,"body":"the ownership costs. In this"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1366.14,"endTime":1368.87,"body":"case, if we're talking about the"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1368.9,"endTime":1372.17,"body":"ownership period, the ownership"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1368.9,"endTime":1372.17,"body":"period costs that we experience,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1372.35,"endTime":1376.31,"body":"and that when we sell that"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1372.35,"endTime":1376.31,"body":"machine that we are we're at"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1376.34,"endTime":1378.62,"body":"zero, that would be that would"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1376.34,"endTime":1378.62,"body":"be ideal."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1379.009,"endTime":1381.829,"body":"Yeah. But But the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1379.009,"endTime":1381.829,"body":"only way we're going to if we"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1381.829,"endTime":1386.239,"body":"visualize a fixed cost, the only"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1381.829,"endTime":1386.239,"body":"way we're going to get to zero,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1386.749,"endTime":1389.419,"body":"is if we achieve the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1386.749,"endTime":1389.419,"body":"utilization."},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1389.63,"endTime":1392.09,"body":"Sure. That's"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1389.63,"endTime":1392.09,"body":"right. So So here's a question"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1392.09,"endTime":1396.74,"body":"about ownership period, then how"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1392.09,"endTime":1396.74,"body":"often should I examine my"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1396.74,"endTime":1400.07,"body":"assumption? Because if I bought"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1396.74,"endTime":1400.07,"body":"that machine, that same machine"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1400.07,"endTime":1404.84,"body":"100 with $100,000, cost, right,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1400.07,"endTime":1404.84,"body":"the $20,050, residual value,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1404.84,"endTime":1411.38,"body":"etc. And I assumed 1000 hours"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1404.84,"endTime":1411.38,"body":"per year, 10,000 hours, 10"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1411.38,"endTime":1418.52,"body":"years? And based all my kit rate"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1411.38,"endTime":1418.52,"body":"calculation on that? How often"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1418.52,"endTime":1424.52,"body":"should I sit down and say, is my"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1418.52,"endTime":1424.52,"body":"rate actually correct? How much"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1424.52,"endTime":1427.49,"body":"is it? Should I be doing that"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1424.52,"endTime":1427.49,"body":"every week? Should I be doing"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1427.49,"endTime":1432.8,"body":"that? Once a year? what's what's"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1427.49,"endTime":1432.8,"body":"a practical frequency to examine"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1432.8,"endTime":1433.97,"body":"those assumptions?"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1435.41,"endTime":1438.29,"body":"Well, practical"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1435.41,"endTime":1438.29,"body":"frequency and frequency that I"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1438.59,"endTime":1444.59,"body":"talk a lot about is Hey, guys,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1438.59,"endTime":1444.59,"body":"you have to calibrate your rates"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1444.59,"endTime":1449.78,"body":"at least once a year. Now notice"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1444.59,"endTime":1449.78,"body":"we've introduced a new term in"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1449.78,"endTime":1453.14,"body":"the in the process, and that is,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1449.78,"endTime":1453.14,"body":"we've been talking about"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1453.14,"endTime":1457.55,"body":"calculating, and how much of"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1453.14,"endTime":1457.55,"body":"calculating do we do? And how"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1457.55,"endTime":1461.48,"body":"much calibrating do we do?"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1457.55,"endTime":1461.48,"body":"Right? It's very seldom we"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1461.48,"endTime":1463.7,"body":"actually start with a blank"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1461.48,"endTime":1463.7,"body":"piece of paper and do a"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1463.7,"endTime":1469.64,"body":"calculation. Sure, they should"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1463.7,"endTime":1469.64,"body":"be reasonable and proper way of"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1469.64,"endTime":1473.75,"body":"doing the calculation. But once"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1469.64,"endTime":1473.75,"body":"we've done that calculation, and"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1473.75,"endTime":1477.11,"body":"once we've got this experience"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1473.75,"endTime":1477.11,"body":"as to what our actual"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1477.11,"endTime":1482.03,"body":"utilization is, if our"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1477.11,"endTime":1482.03,"body":"utilization estimates have been"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1482.27,"endTime":1486.47,"body":"incorrect, either too high or"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1482.27,"endTime":1486.47,"body":"too low, that we need to have"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1486.47,"endTime":1491.33,"body":"the courage to calibrate"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1486.47,"endTime":1491.33,"body":"calculation we did based on the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1491.33,"endTime":1496.76,"body":"knowledge we've experienced. And"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1491.33,"endTime":1496.76,"body":"I my suggestion there is that"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1496.88,"endTime":1499.67,"body":"that you do that at least"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1496.88,"endTime":1499.67,"body":"annually go through the rate"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1500.39,"endTime":1504.86,"body":"calibration process is to"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1500.39,"endTime":1504.86,"body":"annually to make sure that your"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1504.86,"endTime":1508.67,"body":"calculation was based on"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1504.86,"endTime":1508.67,"body":"reasonable assumptions."},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1508.76,"endTime":1511.58,"body":"Right? So really"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1508.76,"endTime":1511.58,"body":"what we're calibrating when"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1511.58,"endTime":1513.26,"body":"we're calibrating the rate,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1511.58,"endTime":1513.26,"body":"really what we're doing is we're"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1513.26,"endTime":1515.96,"body":"examining the ownership. Well,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1513.26,"endTime":1515.96,"body":"among other things, the"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1515.99,"endTime":1520.28,"body":"ownership period assumption. And"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1515.99,"endTime":1520.28,"body":"we're saying, We assumed this"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1520.28,"endTime":1524.15,"body":"length of time, we assumed this"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1520.28,"endTime":1524.15,"body":"utilization, we assumed this"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1524.15,"endTime":1527.0,"body":"residual market value even."},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1524.15,"endTime":1527.0,"body":"That's another portion that I"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1527.0,"endTime":1531.89,"body":"would say in there. And we're"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1527.0,"endTime":1531.89,"body":"calibrating that to say is, you"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1531.89,"endTime":1535.46,"body":"know, has the business"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1531.89,"endTime":1535.46,"body":"environment changed? And has our"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1535.46,"endTime":1541.46,"body":"market changed? it in do? Do"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1535.46,"endTime":1541.46,"body":"these really still apply? So"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1541.46,"endTime":1546.32,"body":"interesting one one year? Well,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1541.46,"endTime":1546.32,"body":"so then the the next you talked"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1546.32,"endTime":1548.87,"body":"about ownership, the next two"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1546.32,"endTime":1548.87,"body":"assumptions that you talked"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1548.87,"endTime":1552.08,"body":"about, what if I have it right,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1548.87,"endTime":1552.08,"body":"as the are the operating cost"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1552.17,"endTime":1556.88,"body":"assumption? And the Oh, I'm"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1552.17,"endTime":1556.88,"body":"sorry, the owning cost"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1556.88,"endTime":1559.37,"body":"assumption and operating costs"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1556.88,"endTime":1559.37,"body":"assumption, those two cost"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1559.37,"endTime":1561.35,"body":"assumptions, because we were"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1559.37,"endTime":1561.35,"body":"talking about owning period"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1561.35,"endTime":1567.77,"body":"assumptions. So now we have cost"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1561.35,"endTime":1567.77,"body":"assumptions. But is there so"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1567.77,"endTime":1570.95,"body":"much assuming about owning"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1567.77,"endTime":1570.95,"body":"costs?"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1571.73,"endTime":1572.39,"body":"Well,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1572.96,"endTime":1576.65,"body":"not as much as they are not as"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1572.96,"endTime":1576.65,"body":"much as not, there aren't as"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1576.65,"endTime":1580.43,"body":"many assumptions or estimates"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1576.65,"endTime":1580.43,"body":"associated with owning class, as"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1580.43,"endTime":1583.4,"body":"there are with operating costs,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1580.43,"endTime":1583.4,"body":"if we've set the ownership"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1583.4,"endTime":1586.91,"body":"period assumptions aside,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1583.4,"endTime":1586.91,"body":"because most of your only costs"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1586.91,"endTime":1589.4,"body":"are fixed, renewing the deal,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1586.91,"endTime":1589.4,"body":"you know, the purchase price, or"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1589.4,"endTime":1591.56,"body":"you know, your lease"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1589.4,"endTime":1591.56,"body":"commitments, so you know, your"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1591.86,"endTime":1595.7,"body":"loan commitments or whatever it"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1591.86,"endTime":1595.7,"body":"might be. But hang on, there's"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1595.7,"endTime":1599.75,"body":"the residual market value. And"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1595.7,"endTime":1599.75,"body":"what are your What are your"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1599.75,"endTime":1603.59,"body":"estimates regarding the residual"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1599.75,"endTime":1603.59,"body":"market value that machine is"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1603.59,"endTime":1608.09,"body":"likely to have at the end of the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1603.59,"endTime":1608.09,"body":"ownership period, either in"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1608.09,"endTime":1611.9,"body":"years or in hours? So there's at"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1608.09,"endTime":1611.9,"body":"least there is a your market"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1611.9,"endTime":1615.44,"body":"value. But then, of course,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1611.9,"endTime":1615.44,"body":"there are things like licenses,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1615.44,"endTime":1620.27,"body":"insurances, property taxes, and"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1615.44,"endTime":1620.27,"body":"all of those sorts of things."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1620.69,"endTime":1625.1,"body":"Right, right. And so those"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1620.69,"endTime":1625.1,"body":"assumptions, the amounts are"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1625.1,"endTime":1629.3,"body":"fairly well known, or they"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1625.1,"endTime":1629.3,"body":"should be fairly well known. So"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1629.39,"endTime":1633.26,"body":"why do I say should be? Well,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1629.39,"endTime":1633.26,"body":"what's important is that the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1633.26,"endTime":1640.4,"body":"same cost categories that you"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1633.26,"endTime":1640.4,"body":"use to do your rate calculation"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1641.54,"endTime":1646.19,"body":"must be used in your costing"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1641.54,"endTime":1646.19,"body":"system, so that you can actually"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1646.19,"endTime":1651.17,"body":"learn from your costing system."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1646.19,"endTime":1651.17,"body":"Because if you are going to have"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1651.2,"endTime":1654.95,"body":"a line in your rate calculation"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1651.2,"endTime":1654.95,"body":"that says, cost of licenses,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1654.95,"endTime":1659.33,"body":"insurance, you should have a"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1654.95,"endTime":1659.33,"body":"cost code in your costing system"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1659.54,"endTime":1663.02,"body":"that says licenses and"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1659.54,"endTime":1663.02,"body":"insurances, so that you can"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1663.14,"endTime":1669.2,"body":"calibrate the line in your rate"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1663.14,"endTime":1669.2,"body":"calculation, using the cost"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1669.23,"endTime":1674.36,"body":"bucket in your costing system."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1669.23,"endTime":1674.36,"body":"Surprisingly, how seldom that"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1674.36,"endTime":1679.58,"body":"occurs, that folk use this"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1674.36,"endTime":1679.58,"body":"language in their rate"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1679.58,"endTime":1684.53,"body":"calculation system, and then a"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1679.58,"endTime":1684.53,"body":"completely different language in"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1684.53,"endTime":1686.09,"body":"the cost coding system."},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1686.69,"endTime":1690.74,"body":"Right. I see it"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1686.69,"endTime":1690.74,"body":"all the time. It's so and I"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1690.74,"endTime":1696.26,"body":"think that one of the things is"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1690.74,"endTime":1696.26,"body":"that there's because the because"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1696.26,"endTime":1699.83,"body":"this is an estimate, and it's so"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1696.26,"endTime":1699.83,"body":"focused on people trying to bid"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1699.86,"endTime":1704.36,"body":"work, like the estimating for"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1699.86,"endTime":1704.36,"body":"the jobs, that there ends up"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1704.36,"endTime":1708.14,"body":"being this connect at times"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1704.36,"endTime":1708.14,"body":"anyway, between the folks that"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1708.14,"endTime":1713.09,"body":"are coding the costs, or the"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1708.14,"endTime":1713.09,"body":"equipment shop. And the people"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1713.09,"endTime":1716.12,"body":"who are primarily concerned with"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1713.09,"endTime":1716.12,"body":"setting the rate, which is"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1716.18,"endTime":1719.99,"body":"oftentimes at least in in young"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1716.18,"endTime":1719.99,"body":"companies, the people in the"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1720.02,"endTime":1721.13,"body":"estimating department."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1721.79,"endTime":1725.24,"body":"Yep, yep. Or"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1721.79,"endTime":1725.24,"body":"you've got the people in the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1725.24,"endTime":1729.5,"body":"estimating or the or the other"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1725.24,"endTime":1729.5,"body":"equipment Management Group,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1729.92,"endTime":1734.12,"body":"during the rate calculations,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1729.92,"endTime":1734.12,"body":"who are completely unfamiliar"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1734.12,"endTime":1737.06,"body":"with your code of accounts. Yep,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1734.12,"endTime":1737.06,"body":"that had nothing to do with"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1737.06,"endTime":1740.33,"body":"setting up the code of accounts."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1737.06,"endTime":1740.33,"body":"That's right. If your code of"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1740.33,"endTime":1744.95,"body":"accounts is not speaking the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1740.33,"endTime":1744.95,"body":"same language as your read"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1744.95,"endTime":1749.57,"body":"estimating system, then none of"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1744.95,"endTime":1749.57,"body":"the experience you gain by"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1749.57,"endTime":1753.83,"body":"coding your actuals in terms of"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1749.57,"endTime":1753.83,"body":"your current account, code of"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1753.83,"endTime":1759.41,"body":"accounts, can be used to build"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1753.83,"endTime":1759.41,"body":"knowledge and calibrate your"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1759.41,"endTime":1760.52,"body":"rate calculation."},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1760.73,"endTime":1761.06,"body":"So"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1761.09,"endTime":1762.95,"body":"that's one thing I noticed when"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1761.09,"endTime":1762.95,"body":"I was rereading the this"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1762.95,"endTime":1766.37,"body":"chapter, is that you said that"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1762.95,"endTime":1766.37,"body":"we should use the interest"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1766.37,"endTime":1769.7,"body":"charges when we're building our"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1766.37,"endTime":1769.7,"body":"rate when we're doing our cost"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1769.7,"endTime":1773.27,"body":"recovery from the jobs. So we're"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1769.7,"endTime":1773.27,"body":"basically building a rate that"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1773.27,"endTime":1777.92,"body":"includes some kind of interest."},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1773.27,"endTime":1777.92,"body":"I had I had a lot of pushback in"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1777.92,"endTime":1780.86,"body":"the last boot camp that we did"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1777.92,"endTime":1780.86,"body":"that those five companies that"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1780.86,"endTime":1786.05,"body":"came a lot of pushback on that"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1780.86,"endTime":1786.05,"body":"specific piece, with some people"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1786.05,"endTime":1790.22,"body":"saying, well, we borrow"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1786.05,"endTime":1790.22,"body":"sometimes we don't borrow all"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1790.22,"endTime":1793.19,"body":"the time and other people saying"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1790.22,"endTime":1793.19,"body":"well, we we want to we want to"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1793.19,"endTime":1796.25,"body":"see a return on on equity or"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1793.19,"endTime":1796.25,"body":"return on investment they will"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1796.25,"endTime":1799.46,"body":"say we just apply the same"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1796.25,"endTime":1799.46,"body":"amount of interest based on the"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1799.79,"endTime":1802.31,"body":"amount We pay for our line of"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1799.79,"endTime":1802.31,"body":"credit or, you know, these"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1802.31,"endTime":1804.8,"body":"different these different things"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1802.31,"endTime":1804.8,"body":"that they're trying to include"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1804.8,"endTime":1809.81,"body":"into their, into their cost"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1804.8,"endTime":1809.81,"body":"calculation. You specifically"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1809.81,"endTime":1815.51,"body":"call out interest, the amount"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1809.81,"endTime":1815.51,"body":"you're paying in hard dollars to"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1815.51,"endTime":1819.26,"body":"finance that piece of machinery"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1815.51,"endTime":1819.26,"body":"in aggregate, those kept that"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1819.26,"endTime":1820.25,"body":"category of machineries."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1822.2,"endTime":1825.14,"body":"that a little bit,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1822.2,"endTime":1825.14,"body":"you put your you put your finger"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1825.14,"endTime":1829.97,"body":"on, and why, why am I surprised,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1825.14,"endTime":1829.97,"body":"you're put your finger on the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1830.33,"endTime":1834.71,"body":"most controversial component of"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1830.33,"endTime":1834.71,"body":"the owning cost calculation,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1835.16,"endTime":1838.43,"body":"right? Return on the money that"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1835.16,"endTime":1838.43,"body":"you've got invested in the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1838.43,"endTime":1841.97,"body":"machine, I will tell you, that"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1838.43,"endTime":1841.97,"body":"of the folks that I work with,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1841.97,"endTime":1845.03,"body":"or have worked with, the number"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1841.97,"endTime":1845.03,"body":"of folks who include some"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1845.03,"endTime":1849.5,"body":"provision for interest are very"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1845.03,"endTime":1849.5,"body":"much in the minority. But of"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1849.5,"endTime":1852.47,"body":"course, when you write something"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1849.5,"endTime":1852.47,"body":"down, you need to write it"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1852.5,"endTime":1857.54,"body":"theoretically correct not as"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1852.5,"endTime":1857.54,"body":"applied in practice a row. And"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1857.54,"endTime":1861.83,"body":"that's fine include return on on"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1857.54,"endTime":1861.83,"body":"equity or interest in the read"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1861.83,"endTime":1866.99,"body":"calculation. Very few people do"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1861.83,"endTime":1866.99,"body":"it. Because a lot of folks say,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1866.99,"endTime":1870.53,"body":"hey, all we want in our rate,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1866.99,"endTime":1870.53,"body":"our equipment, owning and"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1870.53,"endTime":1874.88,"body":"operating costs, hourly rate is"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1870.53,"endTime":1874.88,"body":"a hard costs of putting the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1874.88,"endTime":1879.56,"body":"machine to work. And funny"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1874.88,"endTime":1879.56,"body":"little things, funny things like"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1879.59,"endTime":1882.83,"body":"interest on the money we've"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1879.59,"endTime":1882.83,"body":"invested. And those sorts of"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1882.83,"endTime":1888.23,"body":"things sort of cloud the issue."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1882.83,"endTime":1888.23,"body":"And in any case, borrowing money"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1888.26,"endTime":1893.3,"body":"is a corporate, indirect"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1888.26,"endTime":1893.3,"body":"corporate overhead, it's a thing"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1893.3,"endTime":1899.24,"body":"that company does, right? And"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1893.3,"endTime":1899.24,"body":"then return on investment is a"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1899.24,"endTime":1904.34,"body":"thing that the bottom line pays"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1899.24,"endTime":1904.34,"body":"for. All right. And so we"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1904.34,"endTime":1909.56,"body":"produce a bottom line profit to"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1904.34,"endTime":1909.56,"body":"generate a return on owner's"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1909.56,"endTime":1914.33,"body":"equity. And if we include a"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1909.56,"endTime":1914.33,"body":"return on owner's equity in the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1914.33,"endTime":1918.35,"body":"rate calculation, then perhaps"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1914.33,"endTime":1918.35,"body":"we are taking profit on profit."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1919.01,"endTime":1922.52,"body":"Because isn't that what our"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1919.01,"endTime":1922.52,"body":"bottom line net income after tax"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1922.52,"endTime":1927.71,"body":"is all about? Right? Right. And"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1922.52,"endTime":1927.71,"body":"so that is a hugely"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1927.71,"endTime":1932.81,"body":"controversial issue are"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1927.71,"endTime":1932.81,"body":"relatively few folk dude. But it"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1932.81,"endTime":1937.52,"body":"is the theoretically correct"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1932.81,"endTime":1937.52,"body":"thing to do to say, but for this"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1937.52,"endTime":1942.23,"body":"machine, my line of credit would"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1937.52,"endTime":1942.23,"body":"not have been so extended."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1942.98,"endTime":1945.89,"body":"Right? And therefore, this"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1942.98,"endTime":1945.89,"body":"machine must bear some of that"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1945.89,"endTime":1946.76,"body":"burden. Right,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1946.81,"endTime":1949.9,"body":"I definitely see"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1946.81,"endTime":1949.9,"body":"people falling into three camps,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1949.96,"endTime":1954.37,"body":"just like you said that ignoring"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1949.96,"endTime":1954.37,"body":"it entirely, charging the amount"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1954.37,"endTime":1958.81,"body":"of interest on that, you know,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1954.37,"endTime":1958.81,"body":"per machine, you know, if they"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1958.81,"endTime":1963.16,"body":"finance specifically for that"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1958.81,"endTime":1963.16,"body":"machine, and then people who"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1963.16,"endTime":1968.65,"body":"apply an assumption of their of"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1963.16,"endTime":1968.65,"body":"their cost of capital, I have"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1968.65,"endTime":1973.12,"body":"one, one company who actually"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1968.65,"endTime":1973.12,"body":"includes more than just the cost"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1973.12,"endTime":1978.4,"body":"of capital, it's their expected"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1973.12,"endTime":1978.4,"body":"return. And so, but that's just"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1978.4,"endTime":1982.33,"body":"one I can't say that's a large"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1978.4,"endTime":1982.33,"body":"group of people. But it but"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1982.33,"endTime":1985.93,"body":"there's a sizable minority of"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1982.33,"endTime":1985.93,"body":"people who are putting their"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1985.93,"endTime":1992.65,"body":"cost of capital, they're saying,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1985.93,"endTime":1992.65,"body":"in general, borrowing money cost"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":1992.65,"endTime":1992.8,"body":"me this."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1993.68,"endTime":1996.38,"body":"Yeah, into the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1993.68,"endTime":1996.38,"body":"owning cost calculation. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1996.56,"endTime":2001.6,"body":"But owning cost portion of the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":1996.56,"endTime":2001.6,"body":"rate calculation, you need to be"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2001.6,"endTime":2006.13,"body":"very, very careful that you're"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2001.6,"endTime":2006.13,"body":"not ending up taking profit on"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2006.13,"endTime":2011.68,"body":"profit is included return in"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2006.13,"endTime":2011.68,"body":"owning cost portion of their"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2011.68,"endTime":2016.51,"body":"rate calculation, when it comes"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2011.68,"endTime":2016.51,"body":"to marking up the bid should"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2016.51,"endTime":2020.89,"body":"mark up their equipment portion"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2016.51,"endTime":2020.89,"body":"of the bed by a smaller"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2020.89,"endTime":2026.17,"body":"percentage, because there really"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2020.89,"endTime":2026.17,"body":"is a return in what they've"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2026.17,"endTime":2027.31,"body":"defined as cost."},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2027.37,"endTime":2031.12,"body":"Exactly. And"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2027.37,"endTime":2031.12,"body":"that's, I think that it doesn't"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2031.48,"endTime":2034.72,"body":"it to a certain extent, it"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2031.48,"endTime":2034.72,"body":"doesn't matter which of the of"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2034.72,"endTime":2040.0,"body":"the of the options you go with,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2034.72,"endTime":2040.0,"body":"as long as there's clarity with"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2040.0,"endTime":2043.96,"body":"the rest of the organization,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2040.0,"endTime":2043.96,"body":"clarity and consistency and"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2043.96,"endTime":2046.54,"body":"understanding across the"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2043.96,"endTime":2046.54,"body":"organization and understanding."},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2046.75,"endTime":2050.02,"body":"And and I think that that's a"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2046.75,"endTime":2050.02,"body":"piece that you mentioned early"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2050.02,"endTime":2052.81,"body":"on that. We talked about the"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2050.02,"endTime":2052.81,"body":"when you said that, you know as"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2052.81,"endTime":2056.53,"body":"it's a black box calculation,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2052.81,"endTime":2056.53,"body":"and if you have a black box"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2056.53,"endTime":2059.05,"body":"calculation, but you've made"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2056.53,"endTime":2059.05,"body":"this assumption about owning"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2059.05,"endTime":2061.57,"body":"costs, for example, then you"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2059.05,"endTime":2061.57,"body":"hand it over to your estimators"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2061.6,"endTime":2065.38,"body":"and then now they're losing"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2061.6,"endTime":2065.38,"body":"work, because they just simply"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2065.38,"endTime":2068.41,"body":"don't haven't been communicated"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2065.38,"endTime":2068.41,"body":"or don't understand. I think"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2068.41,"endTime":2069.28,"body":"that's a critical thing."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2071.11,"endTime":2075.28,"body":"And if you've got,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2071.11,"endTime":2075.28,"body":"say, $1.50 an hour for return on"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2075.28,"endTime":2081.64,"body":"capital, do you actually return"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2075.28,"endTime":2081.64,"body":"that dollar 50 to the CFO? You"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2081.64,"endTime":2084.64,"body":"hold it in the equipment account"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2081.64,"endTime":2084.64,"body":"and use it for the fact that"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2084.64,"endTime":2088.84,"body":"fuel has gone up a little."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2084.64,"endTime":2088.84,"body":"Alright. You've got that"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2088.84,"endTime":2093.94,"body":"provision in your rate estimate."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2088.84,"endTime":2093.94,"body":"You have to in fact, render unto"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2093.94,"endTime":2099.97,"body":"Caesar what is Caesar's which is"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2093.94,"endTime":2099.97,"body":"the CFO gets the return on"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2100.0,"endTime":2103.36,"body":"Capital portion of the right"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2100.0,"endTime":2103.36,"body":"calculation in exactly the same"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2103.36,"endTime":2108.52,"body":"way as your fuel supplier gets"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2103.36,"endTime":2108.52,"body":"the fuel portion of your rate"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2108.52,"endTime":2113.2,"body":"calculation. All right. And"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2108.52,"endTime":2113.2,"body":"because in one case they supply"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2113.2,"endTime":2118.21,"body":"and capital in the other case,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2113.2,"endTime":2118.21,"body":"say supplying fuel or case, but"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2118.3,"endTime":2121.81,"body":"it's it's a simplification with"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2118.3,"endTime":2121.81,"body":"regards to fuel, but of course,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2122.08,"endTime":2126.04,"body":"the fuel portion generates your"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2122.08,"endTime":2126.04,"body":"budget for the fuel. And the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2126.04,"endTime":2129.55,"body":"return on capital portion"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2126.04,"endTime":2129.55,"body":"generates your budget for the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2129.55,"endTime":2133.87,"body":"return on capital, which goes to"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2129.55,"endTime":2133.87,"body":"the CFO. Yeah, so not only do"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2133.87,"endTime":2137.26,"body":"you include it, but who do you"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2133.87,"endTime":2137.26,"body":"give it to? is a separate"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2137.26,"endTime":2137.8,"body":"question."},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2137.83,"endTime":2140.71,"body":"Right? That is a"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2137.83,"endTime":2140.71,"body":"separate question. And at least"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2140.71,"endTime":2143.11,"body":"that sometimes that's that's the"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2140.71,"endTime":2143.11,"body":"real politically fraught"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2143.11,"endTime":2148.24,"body":"question there. Absolutely, yes."},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2143.11,"endTime":2148.24,"body":"Absolutely. And it's get it gets"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2148.24,"endTime":2151.66,"body":"worse if there's bonuses"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2148.24,"endTime":2151.66,"body":"involved. But let's, uh, let's"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2151.66,"endTime":2154.66,"body":"talk about operating costs. He"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2151.66,"endTime":2154.66,"body":"said that was another one of the"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2154.66,"endTime":2157.51,"body":"big assumptions is is the"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2154.66,"endTime":2157.51,"body":"operating costs that you're"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2157.51,"endTime":2158.62,"body":"going to experience?"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2158.89,"endTime":2163.75,"body":"Yes, yes. And, and"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2158.89,"endTime":2163.75,"body":"the vast majority of operating"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2163.75,"endTime":2169.12,"body":"costs, I found useful to"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2163.75,"endTime":2169.12,"body":"estimate them on the basis of"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2169.12,"endTime":2173.92,"body":"the cost of inaction, and the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2169.12,"endTime":2173.92,"body":"frequency of inaction. What does"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2173.92,"endTime":2180.55,"body":"it cost you to do a 500 r pm"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2173.92,"endTime":2180.55,"body":"service? How often do you do a"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2180.55,"endTime":2186.76,"body":"500? RPM service? Okay. What"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2180.55,"endTime":2186.76,"body":"does it cost you to replace an"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2186.76,"endTime":2191.65,"body":"undercarriage? How frequently do"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2186.76,"endTime":2191.65,"body":"you replace undercarriages? All"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2191.65,"endTime":2196.6,"body":"right, similarly, for cutting"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2191.65,"endTime":2196.6,"body":"edges in web parts. So for many"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2196.63,"endTime":2202.12,"body":"of the constant operating cost"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2196.63,"endTime":2202.12,"body":"categories, you can estimate"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2202.12,"endTime":2206.14,"body":"them on the basis of the cost of"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2202.12,"endTime":2206.14,"body":"inaction, multiplied by or"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2206.14,"endTime":2211.63,"body":"divided by the interval between"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2206.14,"endTime":2211.63,"body":"an action, okay. But again, your"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2211.63,"endTime":2215.38,"body":"code of accounts, if your code"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2211.63,"endTime":2215.38,"body":"of accounts has doesn't separate"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2215.53,"endTime":2219.7,"body":"under carriage actuals, you're"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2215.53,"endTime":2219.7,"body":"never going to have anything"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2219.7,"endTime":2223.63,"body":"that you can use to calibrate"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2219.7,"endTime":2223.63,"body":"your undercarriage estimates."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2223.69,"endTime":2229.18,"body":"Okay. So again, your code of"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2223.69,"endTime":2229.18,"body":"accounts has got to match your"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2229.18,"endTime":2233.65,"body":"rate, estimating structure, or"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2229.18,"endTime":2233.65,"body":"flip it around your rate"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2233.65,"endTime":2235.9,"body":"estimating structure has got to"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2233.65,"endTime":2235.9,"body":"match your code of account,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2236.14,"endTime":2238.66,"body":"there's got to be a"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2236.14,"endTime":2238.66,"body":"communication between the code"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2238.66,"endTime":2243.49,"body":"of accounts people and the rate"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2238.66,"endTime":2243.49,"body":"estimating folk great. But of"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2243.49,"endTime":2246.97,"body":"course, the big unknown is"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2243.49,"endTime":2246.97,"body":"repair parts and labor, right?"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2247.45,"endTime":2252.85,"body":"Where it it's a question of"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2247.45,"endTime":2252.85,"body":"experience, it's a cost, which"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2252.85,"endTime":2256.51,"body":"isn't constant through the life"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2252.85,"endTime":2256.51,"body":"of a machine. And it's that"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2256.54,"endTime":2260.38,"body":"upward sloping curve that we"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2256.54,"endTime":2260.38,"body":"that we've already spoken about."},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2261.01,"endTime":2264.37,"body":"And we talked"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2261.01,"endTime":2264.37,"body":"about this earlier, I said about"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2264.37,"endTime":2267.34,"body":"the sensitivity analysis that"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2264.37,"endTime":2267.34,"body":"you had done in there. It was"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2267.34,"endTime":2269.86,"body":"kind of an intimidating word to"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2267.34,"endTime":2269.86,"body":"me, actually, it's been long"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2269.86,"endTime":2272.35,"body":"enough that I've done"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2269.86,"endTime":2272.35,"body":"sensitivity analyses in school,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2272.59,"endTime":2277.27,"body":"that but if I understood right,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2272.59,"endTime":2277.27,"body":"a sensitivity analysis,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2277.27,"endTime":2282.46,"body":"basically saying, How much does"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2277.27,"endTime":2282.46,"body":"this assumption has to do with"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2282.46,"endTime":2285.76,"body":"the end result? how sensitive is"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2282.46,"endTime":2285.76,"body":"the end result to this"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2285.76,"endTime":2288.82,"body":"assumption? And if I understood"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2285.76,"endTime":2288.82,"body":"correctly from rereading that,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2288.82,"endTime":2292.96,"body":"that the repair parts and labor,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2288.82,"endTime":2292.96,"body":"it's very sensitive to that if"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2292.96,"endTime":2296.08,"body":"you if you get that wrong, your"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2292.96,"endTime":2296.08,"body":"rate is wrong?"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2296.98,"endTime":2300.28,"body":"Absolutely,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2296.98,"endTime":2300.28,"body":"absolutely. The big three and"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2300.28,"endTime":2304.21,"body":"are in a sensitivity analysis,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2300.28,"endTime":2304.21,"body":"of course. And there's a formal"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2304.21,"endTime":2307.69,"body":"sensitivity analysis done in the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2304.21,"endTime":2307.69,"body":"book, the big three in the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2307.69,"endTime":2311.35,"body":"sensitivity analysis, of course,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2307.69,"endTime":2311.35,"body":"utilization, which we've spoken"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2311.35,"endTime":2315.46,"body":"about. Number two is repair"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2311.35,"endTime":2315.46,"body":"parts and labor. And then number"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2315.46,"endTime":2320.2,"body":"three, is what masquerades as as"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2315.46,"endTime":2320.2,"body":"purchase price, which is in fact"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2320.2,"endTime":2326.17,"body":"the main driver of owning costs."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2320.2,"endTime":2326.17,"body":"Sure, sure. And, you know, if"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2326.17,"endTime":2329.92,"body":"you if you look at the total"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2326.17,"endTime":2329.92,"body":"expenditure on your fleet, don't"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2329.92,"endTime":2335.74,"body":"be surprised if owning costs,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2329.92,"endTime":2335.74,"body":"operating costs of fuel come to"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2335.74,"endTime":2340.99,"body":"about the same right now fuel,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2335.74,"endTime":2340.99,"body":"the fuel consumption, we've got"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2340.99,"endTime":2345.73,"body":"better data and so on and so"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2340.99,"endTime":2345.73,"body":"forth. So fuel consumption is a"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2345.73,"endTime":2350.32,"body":"big issue, but it doesn't swing"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2345.73,"endTime":2350.32,"body":"as much as owning costs. So"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2350.32,"endTime":2352.03,"body":"operating costs can swing,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2352.69,"endTime":2354.76,"body":"right? Well, it"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2352.69,"endTime":2354.76,"body":"doesn't it doesn't swing as much"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2354.76,"endTime":2359.38,"body":"in terms of over the life of the"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2354.76,"endTime":2359.38,"body":"machine. It doesn't change as"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2359.38,"endTime":2363.28,"body":"far as gallons per hour, but it"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2359.38,"endTime":2363.28,"body":"sure can change. It change as"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2363.28,"endTime":2364.93,"body":"far as dollars per gallon."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2365.2,"endTime":2369.31,"body":"Yep, yep, yep. And"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2365.2,"endTime":2369.31,"body":"of course, the skills aptitudes"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2369.31,"endTime":2374.56,"body":"and attitudes that you need to"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2369.31,"endTime":2374.56,"body":"estimate. operating costs are"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2374.56,"endTime":2379.48,"body":"very different to the skills"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2374.56,"endTime":2379.48,"body":"aptitudes and attitudes you need"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2379.48,"endTime":2383.32,"body":"to estimate owning costs."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2379.48,"endTime":2383.32,"body":"Because for owning costs, you"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2383.32,"endTime":2388.21,"body":"need someone whose background"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2383.32,"endTime":2388.21,"body":"and mindset is banking, finance,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2388.21,"endTime":2392.17,"body":"depreciation, cost of capital,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2388.21,"endTime":2392.17,"body":"and for your operating costs."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2392.17,"endTime":2395.08,"body":"You need someone whose"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2392.17,"endTime":2395.08,"body":"background is, you know, lefty"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2395.08,"endTime":2399.97,"body":"loosey, righty tighty parts and"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2395.08,"endTime":2399.97,"body":"labor, oil and grease company."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2400.0,"endTime":2404.23,"body":"notes and all those sorts of"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2400.0,"endTime":2404.23,"body":"things. So, again, in this"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2404.23,"endTime":2409.03,"body":"process, the skills aptitudes"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2404.23,"endTime":2409.03,"body":"and attitudes that you need to,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2410.26,"endTime":2413.53,"body":"to make those estimates are"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2410.26,"endTime":2413.53,"body":"very, very different, which is"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2413.53,"endTime":2417.46,"body":"reason why you split them and"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2413.53,"endTime":2417.46,"body":"keep them apart. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2417.73,"endTime":2420.76,"body":"yeah. One of the"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2417.73,"endTime":2420.76,"body":"things that you haven't"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2420.76,"endTime":2425.98,"body":"mentioned so far, are all of"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2420.76,"endTime":2425.98,"body":"your indirect costs. So it's not"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2426.01,"endTime":2429.46,"body":"enough, at least in my"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2426.01,"endTime":2429.46,"body":"experience, where these these"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2429.46,"endTime":2432.97,"body":"construction companies, it's not"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2429.46,"endTime":2432.97,"body":"enough to just own the machines,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2432.97,"endTime":2437.2,"body":"but they have to own the things"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2432.97,"endTime":2437.2,"body":"that that allow them to own the"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2437.2,"endTime":2440.53,"body":"machines, or at least they have"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2437.2,"endTime":2440.53,"body":"indirect they have these"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2440.53,"endTime":2444.25,"body":"indirect expenses, expenses that"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2440.53,"endTime":2444.25,"body":"they wouldn't have, if they"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2444.25,"endTime":2446.92,"body":"simply rented everything. Yep."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2447.29,"endTime":2451.49,"body":"Yes, there is the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2447.29,"endTime":2451.49,"body":"infrastructure, you need to, to"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2451.49,"endTime":2454.55,"body":"maintain the fleet, you know,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2451.49,"endTime":2454.55,"body":"there's lights and water and,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2454.82,"endTime":2459.23,"body":"and rent and all those sorts of"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2454.82,"endTime":2459.23,"body":"things for the shop and for the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2459.23,"endTime":2464.57,"body":"yard and for the management and"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2459.23,"endTime":2464.57,"body":"the administration, who pays for"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2464.57,"endTime":2468.44,"body":"the guy that looks after the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2464.57,"endTime":2468.44,"body":"yard? Who pays for cleaning the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2468.44,"endTime":2474.74,"body":"shop? Who pays all that indirect"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2468.44,"endTime":2474.74,"body":"labor, that goes to supporting"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2475.04,"endTime":2480.29,"body":"the shop and yard and or part"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2475.04,"endTime":2480.29,"body":"consumables in the shop that you"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2480.29,"endTime":2484.97,"body":"are cannot be directly coded or"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2480.29,"endTime":2484.97,"body":"to any particular work order,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2484.97,"endTime":2491.48,"body":"and so on and so forth? And so,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2484.97,"endTime":2491.48,"body":"yes, there needs to be a"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2491.48,"endTime":2495.74,"body":"component in the rate"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2491.48,"endTime":2495.74,"body":"calculation that provides for"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2495.74,"endTime":2500.45,"body":"the indirect costs associated"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2495.74,"endTime":2500.45,"body":"with both owning, in other"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2500.45,"endTime":2504.92,"body":"words, the administration of the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2500.45,"endTime":2504.92,"body":"ownership side, and operating"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2505.16,"endTime":2509.09,"body":"the resources, facilities and"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2505.16,"endTime":2509.09,"body":"administration of the operating"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2509.09,"endTime":2515.21,"body":"side of the house. Right. All"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2509.09,"endTime":2515.21,"body":"that is done varies hugely"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2515.27,"endTime":2520.25,"body":"across the spectrum of"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2515.27,"endTime":2520.25,"body":"companies. Some folks say that,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2520.25,"endTime":2523.61,"body":"you know, it's pro rata the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2520.25,"endTime":2523.61,"body":"rate, it's a margin, if you"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2523.61,"endTime":2529.01,"body":"wish, or a markup on the cost"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2523.61,"endTime":2529.01,"body":"estimate. Other folks say, Well,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2529.07,"endTime":2532.16,"body":"you know, the big machines"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2529.07,"endTime":2532.16,"body":"actually use the yard less than"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2532.16,"endTime":2535.52,"body":"the small machines, because it's"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2532.16,"endTime":2535.52,"body":"all the compressors and lighting"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2535.52,"endTime":2538.7,"body":"plants and things like that,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2535.52,"endTime":2538.7,"body":"that give us a headache and our"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2538.7,"endTime":2541.85,"body":"workload in the yard. So yeah,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2538.7,"endTime":2541.85,"body":"they've got to carry more than"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2541.85,"endTime":2545.72,"body":"the big machines. Yeah. But then"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2541.85,"endTime":2545.72,"body":"there are some folks who say we"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2545.72,"endTime":2550.88,"body":"handle all those invariants"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2545.72,"endTime":2550.88,"body":"truly, as an indirect budget,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2551.24,"endTime":2554.96,"body":"don't include it in the red"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2551.24,"endTime":2554.96,"body":"calculation. Great. But that"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2554.96,"endTime":2559.52,"body":"varies all over the place. I"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2554.96,"endTime":2559.52,"body":"think that the equipment account"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2559.52,"endTime":2562.88,"body":"is a ship on its own bottom, I"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2559.52,"endTime":2562.88,"body":"think the equipment account"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2562.88,"endTime":2568.1,"body":"needs to carry its own"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2562.88,"endTime":2568.1,"body":"indirects. And I think that"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2568.1,"endTime":2571.55,"body":"therefore does need to be a"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2568.1,"endTime":2571.55,"body":"component in the rate"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2571.55,"endTime":2572.48,"body":"calculation"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2572.48,"endTime":2574.31,"body":"to, to carry the end"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2574.3,"endTime":2577.39,"body":"What surprised"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2574.3,"endTime":2577.39,"body":"me, I did a analysis with five"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2577.39,"endTime":2580.84,"body":"companies have their indirect"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2577.39,"endTime":2580.84,"body":"costs. And so you know, of"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2580.84,"endTime":2583.36,"body":"course, everybody's categorizing"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2580.84,"endTime":2583.36,"body":"them differently and handling"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2583.36,"endTime":2586.27,"body":"them differently, just like you"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2583.36,"endTime":2586.27,"body":"mentioned earlier, and I was"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2586.27,"endTime":2591.64,"body":"expecting the result of my"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2586.27,"endTime":2591.64,"body":"analysis, to come to some two to"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2591.64,"endTime":2596.71,"body":"3% of the overall equipment"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2591.64,"endTime":2596.71,"body":"revenue. And, and what I, when I"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2596.71,"endTime":2598.96,"body":"told these, these equipment"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2596.71,"endTime":2598.96,"body":"managers, this, I was like,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2598.96,"endTime":2601.69,"body":"well, it's only two or 3%, they"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2598.96,"endTime":2601.69,"body":"all looked at me and they kind"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2601.69,"endTime":2605.47,"body":"of like they they kind of looked"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2601.69,"endTime":2605.47,"body":"at each other. And they said not"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2605.83,"endTime":2611.44,"body":"ours or are yours. I was just"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2605.83,"endTime":2611.44,"body":"wrong. And my assumption was"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2611.44,"endTime":2614.83,"body":"wildly wrong. It's it was"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2611.44,"endTime":2614.83,"body":"somewhere between depending on"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2614.86,"endTime":2619.36,"body":"on the situation, you know,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2614.86,"endTime":2619.36,"body":"between 10 and 20% of the amount"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2619.39,"endTime":2621.64,"body":"that they're charging their"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2619.39,"endTime":2621.64,"body":"jobs. So their total equipment"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2621.64,"endTime":2625.96,"body":"revenue, or the total equipment"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2621.64,"endTime":2625.96,"body":"cost recovery for a year, that"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2626.11,"endTime":2630.94,"body":"some tip between 10 and 20% of"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2626.11,"endTime":2630.94,"body":"their expenses are these"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2630.97,"endTime":2634.9,"body":"indirect expenses. Now, whether"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2630.97,"endTime":2634.9,"body":"or not there including it in the"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2634.9,"endTime":2638.5,"body":"rate calculation is one thing,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2634.9,"endTime":2638.5,"body":"but they are experiencing these"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2638.5,"endTime":2641.11,"body":"costs, they are experiencing"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2638.5,"endTime":2641.11,"body":"leases on their buildings, they"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2641.11,"endTime":2644.8,"body":"are experiencing admin labor, to"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2641.11,"endTime":2644.8,"body":"you know, help with all the"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2644.8,"endTime":2647.14,"body":"compliance and all the"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2644.8,"endTime":2647.14,"body":"regulatory things that they have"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2647.14,"endTime":2649.12,"body":"to do  DOT, all that kind of"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2647.14,"endTime":2649.12,"body":"thing, you know, especia"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2649.12,"endTime":2652.24,"body":"ly all of this emissions testing"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2649.12,"endTime":2652.24,"body":"that they need to do these d"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2652.24,"endTime":2656.65,"body":"ys. And .... These are real c"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2652.24,"endTime":2656.65,"body":"sts. And so when we're talk"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2656.65,"endTime":2661.24,"body":"ng 10 to 20% of the equipment"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2656.65,"endTime":2661.24,"body":"osts, for a sizable fleet, we'"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2661.24,"endTime":2664.75,"body":"e talking a lot of money. And"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2661.24,"endTime":2664.75,"body":"so it can't, it doesn't ap"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2664.75,"endTime":2667.63,"body":"ear to me to be something"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2664.75,"endTime":2667.63,"body":"hat can be simply ignored. I"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2667.63,"endTime":2670.33,"body":"must be handled."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2671.38,"endTime":2676.51,"body":"Well. My call the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2671.38,"endTime":2676.51,"body":"the first rule of managing"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2676.51,"endTime":2683.56,"body":"indirects is to make sure that"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2676.51,"endTime":2683.56,"body":"there are indirects because it's"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2683.59,"endTime":2689.32,"body":"one of the things I experienced"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2683.59,"endTime":2689.32,"body":"is that now shop, rent and"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2689.32,"endTime":2692.38,"body":"electricity in the shop and all"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2689.32,"endTime":2692.38,"body":"those sorts of things. Those are"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2692.41,"endTime":2697.84,"body":"true indirects One of the things"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2692.41,"endTime":2697.84,"body":"I experience is that this plane"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2698.8,"endTime":2704.44,"body":"can I use the word ladies"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2698.8,"endTime":2704.44,"body":"laziness in cost coding to a"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2704.44,"endTime":2709.9,"body":"work order causes you to leave a"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2704.44,"endTime":2709.9,"body":"lot of parts cost under the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2709.93,"endTime":2715.15,"body":"indirect cost packet. Sure, I"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2709.93,"endTime":2715.15,"body":"buy a lot of filters on a bulk"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2715.15,"endTime":2719.11,"body":"order, I put them in my filter"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2715.15,"endTime":2719.11,"body":"store, I'm just gonna take them"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2719.11,"endTime":2722.8,"body":"out of the store and, and use"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2719.11,"endTime":2722.8,"body":"them as I maintain the machines."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2723.13,"endTime":2727.39,"body":"And so all of a sudden, those"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2723.13,"endTime":2727.39,"body":"photos on our indirects, because"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2727.39,"endTime":2731.98,"body":"I haven't allocated them to the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2727.39,"endTime":2731.98,"body":"work order. Yep, I have been"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2731.98,"endTime":2737.41,"body":"less than Sarah, in my"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2731.98,"endTime":2737.41,"body":"allocation of labor to work"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2737.41,"endTime":2741.37,"body":"orders. So the difference lies"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2737.41,"endTime":2741.37,"body":"in a bucket called indirects."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2741.52,"endTime":2746.26,"body":"Yep. So the first thing that I"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2741.52,"endTime":2746.26,"body":"do, and the first thing I would"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2746.26,"endTime":2751.21,"body":"encourage listeners to do when"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2746.26,"endTime":2751.21,"body":"they think about indirect is to"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2751.21,"endTime":2757.66,"body":"say, are these truly an"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2751.21,"endTime":2757.66,"body":"allocatable costs? Or are they"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2757.66,"endTime":2763.78,"body":"in fact, an allocated costs. And"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2757.66,"endTime":2763.78,"body":"when you talk, I've seen"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2764.26,"endTime":2769.39,"body":"indirect paths in the 30s and 40"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2764.26,"endTime":2769.39,"body":"percents of the parts that ended"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2769.39,"endTime":2775.99,"body":"up assigned to units at a work"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2769.39,"endTime":2775.99,"body":"order level, simply because I"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2775.99,"endTime":2778.45,"body":"didn't know the machine number"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2775.99,"endTime":2778.45,"body":"on which we were going to"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2778.6,"endTime":2782.95,"body":"install this cutting it, or I"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2778.6,"endTime":2782.95,"body":"bought a bunch of cutting edges,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2783.01,"endTime":2786.49,"body":"right? Who cares about which"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2783.01,"endTime":2786.49,"body":"machine it goes on to?"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2786.66,"endTime":2789.18,"body":"Oh, man,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2786.66,"endTime":2789.18,"body":"inventory, inventory is a thorn"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2789.18,"endTime":2790.35,"body":"in everybody's side."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2790.59,"endTime":2794.79,"body":"Everybody side and"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2790.59,"endTime":2794.79,"body":"so not properly, it makes sure"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2794.79,"endTime":2799.65,"body":"let me say it again, make sure"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2794.79,"endTime":2799.65,"body":"these are an allocatable costs,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2799.83,"endTime":2804.63,"body":"which must therefore lie in"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2799.83,"endTime":2804.63,"body":"overheads and indirect, versus"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2804.66,"endTime":2810.18,"body":"just simply an allocated costs."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2804.66,"endTime":2810.18,"body":"Right? Right. Having no place in"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2810.18,"endTime":2815.19,"body":"indirects. And in and in"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2810.18,"endTime":2815.19,"body":"overhead costs, right? The"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2815.19,"endTime":2819.81,"body":"equipment manager is an indirect"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2815.19,"endTime":2819.81,"body":"but sure, an equipment"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2819.81,"endTime":2823.26,"body":"technician is not an indirect"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2819.81,"endTime":2823.26,"body":"rate. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2824.91,"endTime":2828.84,"body":"And in small"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2824.91,"endTime":2828.84,"body":"fleets, that's where you have -"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2828.9,"endTime":2832.8,"body":"there's there's people who fill"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2828.9,"endTime":2832.8,"body":"both roles, right, you have"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2832.8,"endTime":2836.13,"body":"people who are wrenching, but"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2832.8,"endTime":2836.13,"body":"then maybe they come in for a"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2836.13,"endTime":2838.98,"body":"portion of their day to plan out"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2836.13,"endTime":2838.98,"body":"the day for the rest of the"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2838.98,"endTime":2841.86,"body":"mechanics. Right. And they have"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2838.98,"endTime":2841.86,"body":"there is there is a mix, but you"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2841.86,"endTime":2846.21,"body":"need to, I think that that's a"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2841.86,"endTime":2846.21,"body":"really good heuristic there."},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2847.17,"endTime":2852.81,"body":"indirects are the unallocated"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2847.17,"endTime":2852.81,"body":"costs. And they shouldn't be the"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2852.81,"endTime":2857.37,"body":"unallocated costs, or that"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2852.81,"endTime":2857.37,"body":"should be as small as possible."},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2857.91,"endTime":2861.96,"body":"Yes, everybody needs a junk"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2857.91,"endTime":2861.96,"body":"drawer. But if you have if your"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2861.96,"endTime":2865.29,"body":"junk drawer is the size of your"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2861.96,"endTime":2865.29,"body":"whole kitchen, then you know,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2866.01,"endTime":2867.75,"body":"you're going to be eating out a"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2866.01,"endTime":2867.75,"body":"lot."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2868.8,"endTime":2872.94,"body":"Absolutely,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2868.8,"endTime":2872.94,"body":"absolutely. And you know, the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2872.94,"endTime":2878.01,"body":"most frequently used cost code"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2872.94,"endTime":2878.01,"body":"is the 999 cost code alright? So"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2878.01,"endTime":2882.15,"body":"it is frequently remembered,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2878.01,"endTime":2882.15,"body":"because code is  my mind. All"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2882.15,"endTime":2885.15,"body":"right, I know. I put this on my"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2882.15,"endTime":2885.15,"body":"nine, nine, nine, let's go."},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2885.88,"endTime":2888.34,"body":"Yeah, I flipped"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2885.88,"endTime":2888.34,"body":"that around for some people and"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2888.34,"endTime":2891.31,"body":"called it the 666 code so that"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2888.34,"endTime":2891.31,"body":"people put less to it. I'm"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2891.31,"endTime":2898.27,"body":"curious now about the big risks"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2891.31,"endTime":2898.27,"body":"that you see that you've seen,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2898.3,"endTime":2901.99,"body":"you know, we've talked about"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2898.3,"endTime":2901.99,"body":"these assumptions, talked about"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2902.05,"endTime":2904.54,"body":"the repair parts and labor, we"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2902.05,"endTime":2904.54,"body":"talked about the ownership"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2904.54,"endTime":2909.43,"body":"period. It just it just seems"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2904.54,"endTime":2909.43,"body":"like that. With all of these"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2909.43,"endTime":2916.45,"body":"things, we're making a number of"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2909.43,"endTime":2916.45,"body":"sizable guesses, right? Where"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2916.51,"endTime":2920.02,"body":"what's the result of this? What"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2916.51,"endTime":2920.02,"body":"are those big risks? And what is"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2920.02,"endTime":2922.51,"body":"the what? What happens if we get"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":2920.02,"endTime":2922.51,"body":"it wrong?"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2923.98,"endTime":2928.99,"body":"Yeah. And"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2923.98,"endTime":2928.99,"body":"particularly, the big risk is"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2929.71,"endTime":2933.64,"body":"hours per year utilization. The"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2929.71,"endTime":2933.64,"body":"big risk is this business"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2933.64,"endTime":2940.24,"body":"virilizing a fixed cost, okay."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2933.64,"endTime":2940.24,"body":"And so, in my world and in"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2940.24,"endTime":2944.8,"body":"everything I've always looked"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2940.24,"endTime":2944.8,"body":"at, in the rate calculation,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2945.16,"endTime":2949.69,"body":"those hours per year that you"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2945.16,"endTime":2949.69,"body":"use to divide into your annual"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2949.69,"endTime":2953.53,"body":"costs have more impact than"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2949.69,"endTime":2953.53,"body":"anything else. And of course,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2953.53,"endTime":2956.44,"body":"there's hours per year or in"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2953.53,"endTime":2956.44,"body":"that top panel of the format,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2956.47,"endTime":2959.83,"body":"right, that gets baked into the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2956.47,"endTime":2959.83,"body":"whole process and that you've"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2959.83,"endTime":2962.71,"body":"forgotten by the time we get"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2959.83,"endTime":2962.71,"body":"down to line six, you've"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2962.71,"endTime":2967.75,"body":"forgotten how, how scary that"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2962.71,"endTime":2967.75,"body":"line eight was, you know, the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2967.75,"endTime":2973.96,"body":"lines above work, okay. And so,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2967.75,"endTime":2973.96,"body":"utilization is the is the big"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2973.96,"endTime":2980.98,"body":"risk, repair parts and labor. If"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2973.96,"endTime":2980.98,"body":"it is, if your assumption with"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2980.98,"endTime":2987.46,"body":"regards to ownership period is"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2980.98,"endTime":2987.46,"body":"kind of longer than the expected"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2987.46,"endTime":2991.54,"body":"life of the first set of"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2987.46,"endTime":2991.54,"body":"components, then repair parts"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2991.54,"endTime":2995.77,"body":"and labor is going to become a"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2991.54,"endTime":2995.77,"body":"very big risk, because baked"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2995.77,"endTime":3001.77,"body":"into your rate calculation as"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":2995.77,"endTime":3001.77,"body":"therefore an estimate for some"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3001.77,"endTime":3005.49,"body":"fairly substantial component"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3001.77,"endTime":3005.49,"body":"replacement. Now, the way a lot"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3005.49,"endTime":3009.15,"body":"of people get away from that is"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3005.49,"endTime":3009.15,"body":"they say, well, we're going to"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3009.42,"endTime":3013.53,"body":"get rid of it, before we get"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3009.42,"endTime":3013.53,"body":"into the main Major Component"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3013.53,"endTime":3017.25,"body":"replacement thing means we're"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3013.53,"endTime":3017.25,"body":"going to keep the ownership"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3017.25,"endTime":3021.06,"body":"period short. Or if we keep the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3017.25,"endTime":3021.06,"body":"ownership period short, we're"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3021.06,"endTime":3025.08,"body":"going to have a high ish"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3021.06,"endTime":3025.08,"body":"residual market value, we're"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3025.08,"endTime":3027.99,"body":"going to have very high loss in"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3025.08,"endTime":3027.99,"body":"value during that short"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3027.99,"endTime":3031.44,"body":"ownership period, because we"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3027.99,"endTime":3031.44,"body":"know our residual market value"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3031.44,"endTime":3035.4,"body":"comes down early. Now,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3031.44,"endTime":3035.4,"body":"utilization is going to become"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3035.4,"endTime":3039.12,"body":"critical, because we've got that"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3035.4,"endTime":3039.12,"body":"fixed cost of ownership, that"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3039.12,"endTime":3043.92,"body":"now has to be very alized by"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3039.12,"endTime":3043.92,"body":"utilization, all right. But you"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3043.92,"endTime":3047.58,"body":"can sell them get rid of some of"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3043.92,"endTime":3047.58,"body":"the repair parts and labor risk"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3047.58,"endTime":3052.68,"body":"by doing that. But you should"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3047.58,"endTime":3052.68,"body":"know what repair parts and labor"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3052.68,"endTime":3058.71,"body":"costs are. And you should be"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3052.68,"endTime":3058.71,"body":"able to use your data to"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3058.71,"endTime":3062.1,"body":"minimize repair parts and labor"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3058.71,"endTime":3062.1,"body":"risk. Of course,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3062.4,"endTime":3064.65,"body":"it's kind of"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3062.4,"endTime":3064.65,"body":"interesting, you know, I'm going"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3064.65,"endTime":3068.16,"body":"into these companies, and"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3064.65,"endTime":3068.16,"body":"helping them with their new"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3068.16,"endTime":3070.8,"body":"accounting system and helping,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3068.16,"endTime":3070.8,"body":"you know, sometimes they're"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3070.8,"endTime":3072.6,"body":"switching accounting systems."},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3070.8,"endTime":3072.6,"body":"And that's why they're where"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3072.6,"endTime":3074.91,"body":"they're helping them with their"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3072.6,"endTime":3074.91,"body":"equipment accounting, sometimes"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3074.91,"endTime":3078.39,"body":"it's, they already have Vista,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3074.91,"endTime":3078.39,"body":"we typically work with VISTA"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3078.39,"endTime":3081.27,"body":"clients specifically. And"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3078.39,"endTime":3081.27,"body":"they're just help hoping that we"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3081.27,"endTime":3084.51,"body":"can help them with the equipment"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3081.27,"endTime":3084.51,"body":"portion of it all over the map,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3084.66,"endTime":3089.19,"body":"but one charge that I get"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3084.66,"endTime":3089.19,"body":"leveled against me, I'm not. And"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3089.19,"endTime":3091.26,"body":"sometimes I feel like it's"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3089.19,"endTime":3091.26,"body":"accurate. And sometimes I feel"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3091.26,"endTime":3094.14,"body":"like just an ad hominem, you"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3091.26,"endTime":3094.14,"body":"know, depends on my mood. But"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3094.14,"endTime":3097.41,"body":"they use the words ivory tower,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3094.14,"endTime":3097.41,"body":"they use the words too much"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3097.41,"endTime":3101.34,"body":"college. Sounds like that would"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3097.41,"endTime":3101.34,"body":"work good in in the office, but"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3101.34,"endTime":3103.89,"body":"not in real life. Those kinds of"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3101.34,"endTime":3103.89,"body":"things will don't they'll tell"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3103.89,"endTime":3107.52,"body":"me when I'm talking about this"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3103.89,"endTime":3107.52,"body":"rate calculation. Right? Of"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3107.52,"endTime":3111.51,"body":"course, part of it is I think"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3107.52,"endTime":3111.51,"body":"that maybe I just encourage a"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3111.51,"endTime":3113.76,"body":"little bit too much debate when"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3111.51,"endTime":3113.76,"body":"we're talking about these kind"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3113.76,"endTime":3115.98,"body":"of things. Because I enjoy the"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3113.76,"endTime":3115.98,"body":"debate, maybe more than I even"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3115.98,"endTime":3121.14,"body":"enjoyed the end result. I feel"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3115.98,"endTime":3121.14,"body":"like that, that all of that is"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3121.32,"endTime":3124.56,"body":"when they're in the mode of"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3121.32,"endTime":3124.56,"body":"they're struggling through"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3124.59,"endTime":3130.11,"body":"understanding why do we need to"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3124.59,"endTime":3130.11,"body":"have a standard rate? Why can't"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3130.11,"endTime":3134.43,"body":"I? Why can't I just change it on"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3130.11,"endTime":3134.43,"body":"every job? Why can't I just go"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3134.43,"endTime":3137.58,"body":"with my gut? Why? Well, you"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3134.43,"endTime":3137.58,"body":"know, what, they're asking these"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3137.58,"endTime":3140.55,"body":"questions of me like what, you"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3137.58,"endTime":3140.55,"body":"know, this is this is a lot of"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3140.55,"endTime":3144.12,"body":"work to put into, why do we need"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3140.55,"endTime":3144.12,"body":"a standard rate calculation, I"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3144.12,"endTime":3146.64,"body":"had one guy in the middle of a"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3144.12,"endTime":3146.64,"body":"class I was, you know, leading"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3146.64,"endTime":3149.37,"body":"the class and going through this"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3146.64,"endTime":3149.37,"body":"the diagrams and whiteboards and"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3149.37,"endTime":3152.73,"body":"all this and he and he said,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3149.37,"endTime":3152.73,"body":"Hold on, Michael, why are we"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3152.73,"endTime":3156.78,"body":"doing this? And I kind of like"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3152.73,"endTime":3156.78,"body":"to ask the same question, why"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3156.81,"endTime":3161.22,"body":"what are the advantages, really,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3156.81,"endTime":3161.22,"body":"of this of a rate calculation,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3161.22,"endTime":3163.17,"body":"and specifically a standard one,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3164.37,"endTime":3170.49,"body":"the folk who makes"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3164.37,"endTime":3170.49,"body":"those comments are in many, many"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3170.49,"endTime":3177.9,"body":"ways, right? If they are"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3170.49,"endTime":3177.9,"body":"equipment folk, because you can"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3177.9,"endTime":3181.92,"body":"run a an equipment fleet, you"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3177.9,"endTime":3181.92,"body":"can get all your machines to"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3181.92,"endTime":3186.06,"body":"start, you can fix them, you can"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3181.92,"endTime":3186.06,"body":"you can run an equipment fleet,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3186.42,"endTime":3190.83,"body":"without knowing what it costs"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3186.42,"endTime":3190.83,"body":"you. Alright, and you can walk"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3190.83,"endTime":3194.16,"body":"around and kick the tires and,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3190.83,"endTime":3194.16,"body":"and I guarantee you, you can,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3194.25,"endTime":3196.47,"body":"you can run your motorcar"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3194.25,"endTime":3196.47,"body":"without knowing what your"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3196.47,"endTime":3199.38,"body":"motorcar costs you right? You"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3196.47,"endTime":3199.38,"body":"can get to and from the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3199.38,"endTime":3203.31,"body":"supermarket, you can get the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3199.38,"endTime":3203.31,"body":"dirt moved without knowing what"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3203.58,"endTime":3208.23,"body":"your equipment costs, no doubt"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3203.58,"endTime":3208.23,"body":"about it. But there's one thing"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3208.23,"endTime":3214.92,"body":"that you cannot do. And that is"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3208.23,"endTime":3214.92,"body":"you can't prepare a bid without"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3214.92,"endTime":3218.79,"body":"knowing what your equipment"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3214.92,"endTime":3218.79,"body":"costs. Because one of the things"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3218.79,"endTime":3226.62,"body":"I say to folk is, would you bid"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3218.79,"endTime":3226.62,"body":"a job, a paving job, if you knew"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3226.62,"endTime":3230.31,"body":"the cost of asphalt with the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3226.62,"endTime":3230.31,"body":"same degree of confidence and"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3230.31,"endTime":3237.3,"body":"accuracy, as you know the cost"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3230.31,"endTime":3237.3,"body":"of the paver, okay, because the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3237.3,"endTime":3243.72,"body":"cost of the work is the cost of"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3237.3,"endTime":3243.72,"body":"the resources that are consumed"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3243.72,"endTime":3249.3,"body":"in the production of that work."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3243.72,"endTime":3249.3,"body":"Now you are going to consume"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3249.33,"endTime":3254.19,"body":"asphalt in the production of"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3249.33,"endTime":3254.19,"body":"this paved highway, you're also"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3254.19,"endTime":3257.91,"body":"going to consume a paver or"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3254.19,"endTime":3257.91,"body":"portion of a paver or a"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3257.91,"endTime":3263.04,"body":"substantial portion of the life"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3257.91,"endTime":3263.04,"body":"of a paver in the production of"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3263.04,"endTime":3268.74,"body":"that paved highway. You have to"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3263.04,"endTime":3268.74,"body":"know the cost of the resources"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3268.74,"endTime":3273.39,"body":"you need to produce the work, if"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3268.74,"endTime":3273.39,"body":"you are going to estimate an"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3273.42,"endTime":3279.57,"body":"offer under contract, a bid to"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3273.42,"endTime":3279.57,"body":"do that work, what we estimate"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3279.78,"endTime":3284.37,"body":"work would we offer to build a"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3279.78,"endTime":3284.37,"body":"bridge if we didn't know the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3284.37,"endTime":3288.69,"body":"cost of labor? Right? Or if we"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3284.37,"endTime":3288.69,"body":"didn't know the cost of"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3288.69,"endTime":3293.58,"body":"concrete, right? So the if the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3288.69,"endTime":3293.58,"body":"folks that are talking to you"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3293.58,"endTime":3298.41,"body":"about equipment costs, or"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3293.58,"endTime":3298.41,"body":"equipment people there's a ring"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3298.41,"endTime":3303.57,"body":"of truth in what they're saying."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3298.41,"endTime":3303.57,"body":"to you. But the principal and"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3303.6,"endTime":3308.55,"body":"critical role of the rate"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3303.6,"endTime":3308.55,"body":"calculation is the role it plays"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3308.55,"endTime":3313.68,"body":"in estimating. Because let's"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3308.55,"endTime":3313.68,"body":"imagine, you've your rate"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3313.68,"endTime":3320.46,"body":"calculation is 30% line, and you"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3313.68,"endTime":3320.46,"body":"build your estimated cost of"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3320.46,"endTime":3325.65,"body":"your equipment into your bed 30%"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3320.46,"endTime":3325.65,"body":"lighter than it should be, who"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3325.65,"endTime":3333.99,"body":"gets that 30%? The owner? Okay,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3325.65,"endTime":3333.99,"body":"right, because you have offered"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3334.26,"endTime":3340.26,"body":"to do the work using resources"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3334.26,"endTime":3340.26,"body":"that are that you've discounted,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3340.71,"endTime":3346.98,"body":"the same way as if you offer to"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3340.71,"endTime":3346.98,"body":"place concrete at a 30% less"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3347.04,"endTime":3350.88,"body":"than what it costs you to buy"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3347.04,"endTime":3350.88,"body":"the concrete, right, bring the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3350.88,"endTime":3355.41,"body":"owner concrete at a discounted"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3350.88,"endTime":3355.41,"body":"rate. Now, are you gonna offer"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3355.44,"endTime":3359.85,"body":"your owner your labor at a"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3355.44,"endTime":3359.85,"body":"discounted rate? You're gonna"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3359.85,"endTime":3363.63,"body":"offer you owner your materials"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3359.85,"endTime":3363.63,"body":"at a discounted rate, are you"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3363.63,"endTime":3367.65,"body":"going to offer your owner your"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3363.63,"endTime":3367.65,"body":"equipment at a discounted rate?"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3368.37,"endTime":3373.95,"body":"You've got to know the rate for"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3368.37,"endTime":3373.95,"body":"your equipment, the same as"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3373.95,"endTime":3377.43,"body":"you've got to know the right for"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3373.95,"endTime":3377.43,"body":"your labor and your materials."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3377.58,"endTime":3383.7,"body":"Okay. And so I would encourage"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3377.58,"endTime":3383.7,"body":"the folks who say that to you, I"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3383.7,"endTime":3386.82,"body":"would say to them, hey, look,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3383.7,"endTime":3386.82,"body":"let's talk to your estimators."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3388.98,"endTime":3394.2,"body":"The folk who have actually grown"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3388.98,"endTime":3394.2,"body":"to understand that equipment"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3394.23,"endTime":3399.69,"body":"rates are more about equipment"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3394.23,"endTime":3399.69,"body":"estimating than about equipment"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3399.69,"endTime":3406.56,"body":"management, are actually grasp"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3399.69,"endTime":3406.56,"body":"the importance of chapter six."},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3406.92,"endTime":3410.7,"body":"Yes, yes,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3406.92,"endTime":3410.7,"body":"exactly. That's that's just it"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3410.88,"endTime":3416.01,"body":"is that you know that there's"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3410.88,"endTime":3416.01,"body":"there is no college, that's"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3416.01,"endTime":3419.01,"body":"going to prepare you there is no"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3416.01,"endTime":3419.01,"body":"ivory tower that's going to"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3419.01,"endTime":3423.48,"body":"prepare you to accurately"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3419.01,"endTime":3423.48,"body":"estimate those costs. What"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3423.54,"endTime":3427.95,"body":"what's what's going to happen is"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3423.54,"endTime":3427.95,"body":"experience, go and talk to the"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3427.95,"endTime":3430.2,"body":"people that have experience. If"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3427.95,"endTime":3430.2,"body":"you're talking about the"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3430.2,"endTime":3434.28,"body":"ownership costs, go talk to the"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3430.2,"endTime":3434.28,"body":"the old graybeard that has been"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3434.52,"endTime":3438.45,"body":"buying and selling equipment for"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3434.52,"endTime":3438.45,"body":"a very long time, and then come"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3438.45,"endTime":3441.18,"body":"back to me with some"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3438.45,"endTime":3441.18,"body":"assumptions. Go and talk to that"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3441.18,"endTime":3444.24,"body":"mechanic that's been wrenching"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3441.18,"endTime":3444.24,"body":"for a very long time, and then"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3444.24,"endTime":3447.69,"body":"come back to me with the"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3444.24,"endTime":3447.69,"body":"assumptions. And then and then"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3447.72,"endTime":3453.33,"body":"we can use the formula, we can"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3447.72,"endTime":3453.33,"body":"use the the, we can use the the"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3453.33,"endTime":3457.08,"body":"categorization, we can use the"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3453.33,"endTime":3457.08,"body":"spreadsheet, the simple"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3457.08,"endTime":3461.64,"body":"arithmetic to use those good"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3457.08,"endTime":3461.64,"body":"assumptions to come up with a"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3461.64,"endTime":3464.58,"body":"rate calculation to do"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3461.64,"endTime":3464.58,"body":"everything that you just said to"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3464.94,"endTime":3470.1,"body":"then specifically to not give"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3464.94,"endTime":3470.1,"body":"money away. Yep, yep. In our in"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3470.1,"endTime":3471.18,"body":"our bidding process."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3471.33,"endTime":3474.27,"body":"The section in the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3471.33,"endTime":3474.27,"body":"book that's called know your"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3474.27,"endTime":3480.39,"body":"costs shouldn't be read and"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3474.27,"endTime":3480.39,"body":"understood by estimators, not by"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3480.39,"endTime":3484.68,"body":"equipment, not by equipment"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3480.39,"endTime":3484.68,"body":"managers as much, because an"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3484.68,"endTime":3488.64,"body":"equipment manager can actually"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3484.68,"endTime":3488.64,"body":"manage a fleet without knowing"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3488.64,"endTime":3492.72,"body":"his cost. Sure, not as well as"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3488.64,"endTime":3492.72,"body":"you and I would like of course,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3492.81,"endTime":3498.66,"body":"right. But an estimator, flat"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3492.81,"endTime":3498.66,"body":"cannot prepare an estimate"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3499.41,"endTime":3502.17,"body":"without knowing the cost of the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3499.41,"endTime":3502.17,"body":"resources that are going to"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3502.17,"endTime":3506.43,"body":"build the work. Right. Right."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3502.17,"endTime":3506.43,"body":"Hey, we're gonna pay, we're"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3506.43,"endTime":3509.64,"body":"gonna put down this piece of"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3506.43,"endTime":3509.64,"body":"concrete paving. I'll tell you"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3509.64,"endTime":3511.59,"body":"what, you don't know the cost of"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3509.64,"endTime":3511.59,"body":"concrete."},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3511.75,"endTime":3514.33,"body":"Yeah, right. Go."},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3511.75,"endTime":3514.33,"body":"Let's see, let's see what"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3514.33,"endTime":3514.81,"body":"happens."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3515.98,"endTime":3517.72,"body":"Yeah, I remember"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3515.98,"endTime":3517.72,"body":"that. I know what  I would do"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3517.72,"endTime":3524.83,"body":"sitting on the, on the board,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3517.72,"endTime":3524.83,"body":"alright. conversations,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3525.22,"endTime":3528.16,"body":"or as that as a responsible"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3525.22,"endTime":3528.16,"body":"manager, if it comes in and"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3528.16,"endTime":3531.19,"body":"says, Sir, he has my bid, I'd"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3528.16,"endTime":3531.19,"body":"like to finalize it, you look at"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3531.19,"endTime":3533.47,"body":"it and say, Well, how well do"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3531.19,"endTime":3533.47,"body":"you know that it cost a"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3533.47,"endTime":3538.45,"body":"concrete? Or no, I didn't know"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3533.47,"endTime":3538.45,"body":"anything about concrete. I don't"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3538.45,"endTime":3541.06,"body":"know how they're, you know, I"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3538.45,"endTime":3541.06,"body":"never called a concrete"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3541.06,"endTime":3545.56,"body":"supplier. I just thought that"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3541.06,"endTime":3545.56,"body":"was a good number. Right? You"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3545.56,"endTime":3548.2,"body":"say How well do you know the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3545.56,"endTime":3548.2,"body":"cost of your equipment that"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3548.2,"endTime":3551.5,"body":"you've put into this, but at the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3548.2,"endTime":3551.5,"body":"cost of your equipment in this"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3551.5,"endTime":3556.57,"body":"bird, in many instances is up"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3551.5,"endTime":3556.57,"body":"here by a third and a quarter of"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3556.57,"endTime":3563.08,"body":"the cost of the bird? Right?"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3556.57,"endTime":3563.08,"body":"Would you bid for work, knowing"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3563.08,"endTime":3567.13,"body":"the cost of materials with the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3563.08,"endTime":3567.13,"body":"same degree of accuracy and"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3567.13,"endTime":3570.04,"body":"confidence as you know, the cost"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3567.13,"endTime":3570.04,"body":"of your equipment?"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3570.46,"endTime":3573.85,"body":"Right, exactly."},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3570.46,"endTime":3573.85,"body":"And the answer is clearly no, as"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3573.85,"endTime":3577.21,"body":"evidenced by every estimating"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3573.85,"endTime":3577.21,"body":"department out there that I've"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3577.21,"endTime":3583.6,"body":"worked with. So another question"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3577.21,"endTime":3583.6,"body":"that I get fairly frequently as"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3583.66,"endTime":3586.42,"body":"How do I know if I have the"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3583.66,"endTime":3586.42,"body":"right numbers? And and they"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3586.45,"endTime":3590.47,"body":"they're looking for some kind of"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3586.45,"endTime":3590.47,"body":"validation? But of course, it's"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3590.47,"endTime":3593.59,"body":"a hard question to answer"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3590.47,"endTime":3593.59,"body":"because, because, since"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3593.59,"endTime":3597.16,"body":"everything does rest on the"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3593.59,"endTime":3597.16,"body":"assumptions that they've made"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3597.16,"endTime":3600.01,"body":"about their company, of course,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3597.16,"endTime":3600.01,"body":"there is no right answer, but"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3600.55,"endTime":3604.3,"body":"They're What have you seen when"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3600.55,"endTime":3604.3,"body":"people are trying to compare"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3604.3,"endTime":3606.79,"body":"their rates to others? I mean,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3604.3,"endTime":3606.79,"body":"you know that I think the Army"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3606.79,"endTime":3609.43,"body":"Corps of Engineers has one. But"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3606.79,"endTime":3609.43,"body":"isn't. Aren't there other"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3609.43,"endTime":3610.66,"body":"industry benchmarks?"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3611.8,"endTime":3614.92,"body":"Yes. And the blue"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3611.8,"endTime":3614.92,"body":"book, of course, has a lot of"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3614.92,"endTime":3619.87,"body":"state DOT's have benchmark"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3614.92,"endTime":3619.87,"body":"values? Alright. And yes, the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3619.87,"endTime":3626.23,"body":"role of benchmark, benchmark"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3619.87,"endTime":3626.23,"body":"values do have a play a role in"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3626.23,"endTime":3632.86,"body":"the in the rate setting process."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3626.23,"endTime":3632.86,"body":"But, you know, first thing to do"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3632.86,"endTime":3636.46,"body":"is to make sure that you have"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3632.86,"endTime":3636.46,"body":"included in your rate, the same"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3636.46,"endTime":3640.33,"body":"sort of things, interest on"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3636.46,"endTime":3640.33,"body":"capital, alright. Is it in the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3640.33,"endTime":3643.66,"body":"Army Corps of Engineers? Is it"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3640.33,"endTime":3643.66,"body":"in the deities? Is it in the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3643.66,"endTime":3648.79,"body":"bluebook calculation? Is it in"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3643.66,"endTime":3648.79,"body":"your calculation? And more often"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3648.79,"endTime":3653.14,"body":"than not, there's a return on"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3648.79,"endTime":3653.14,"body":"capital component in a in a"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3653.32,"endTime":3657.19,"body":"theoretical benchmark"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3653.32,"endTime":3657.19,"body":"calculation, and not in yours?"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3657.19,"endTime":3661.27,"body":"And you say, Yes, we can beat"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3657.19,"endTime":3661.27,"body":"them by 10%. Or another one that"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3661.27,"endTime":3666.04,"body":"folk use a lot about for"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3661.27,"endTime":3666.04,"body":"benchmark rates is equipment"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3666.04,"endTime":3666.97,"body":"rental business?"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3667.44,"endTime":3669.78,"body":"Sure. Yeah. I've"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3667.44,"endTime":3669.78,"body":"heard that a lot. What can I get"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3669.78,"endTime":3671.55,"body":"it for? If I just go out in the"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3669.78,"endTime":3671.55,"body":"street and get it?"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3671.94,"endTime":3675.75,"body":"Get it now? Well,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3671.94,"endTime":3675.75,"body":"let's be sure that the rental"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3675.78,"endTime":3680.76,"body":"equipment rental business has"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3675.78,"endTime":3680.76,"body":"got profit and return on capital"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3680.76,"endTime":3683.73,"body":"because their share, that's the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3680.76,"endTime":3683.73,"body":"only source of income and their"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3683.73,"endTime":3687.75,"body":"shareholders are going to want"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3683.73,"endTime":3687.75,"body":"profit and return on and or"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3687.75,"endTime":3693.39,"body":"return on capital. Alright. And"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3687.75,"endTime":3693.39,"body":"in their in their business? The"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3693.39,"endTime":3698.28,"body":"other thing is, are the rental"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3693.39,"endTime":3698.28,"body":"terms and conditions the same?"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3699.27,"endTime":3702.48,"body":"Have you got a minimum 40 hours"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3699.27,"endTime":3702.48,"body":"a week? Because your rental"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3702.48,"endTime":3706.14,"body":"company? Sure is hangers got"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3702.48,"endTime":3706.14,"body":"something that handles standard"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3706.14,"endTime":3713.73,"body":"time? All right? Have you got a"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3706.14,"endTime":3713.73,"body":"provision in your rate for less"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3713.73,"endTime":3717.39,"body":"than normal fair wear and tear,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3713.73,"endTime":3717.39,"body":"because Rest assured the rental"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3717.39,"endTime":3721.83,"body":"company does not and will be"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3717.39,"endTime":3721.83,"body":"back charging you for more than"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3721.83,"endTime":3726.6,"body":"normal fair wear and tear. Okay."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3721.83,"endTime":3726.6,"body":"And so again, we have this"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3726.6,"endTime":3731.34,"body":"business of comparing apples"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3726.6,"endTime":3731.34,"body":"with apples, comparing apples"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3731.34,"endTime":3735.45,"body":"and oranges. And when we do"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3731.34,"endTime":3735.45,"body":"that, we just need to make sure"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3735.45,"endTime":3738.33,"body":"that you know, this is an apple,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3735.45,"endTime":3738.33,"body":"this is an orange era, the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3738.33,"endTime":3742.32,"body":"similarities, here are the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3738.33,"endTime":3742.32,"body":"differences. We can bridge the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3742.32,"endTime":3745.74,"body":"similarities, we can understand"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3742.32,"endTime":3745.74,"body":"the similarities, and bridge the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3745.74,"endTime":3751.26,"body":"differences. But look, not only"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3745.74,"endTime":3751.26,"body":"at where if you're using rental"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3751.26,"endTime":3754.38,"body":"look, not only at the number,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3751.26,"endTime":3754.38,"body":"but look at the terms and"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3754.38,"endTime":3758.82,"body":"conditions, and especially the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3754.38,"endTime":3758.82,"body":"two I've mentioned, and that is"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3758.82,"endTime":3762.96,"body":"the terms and conditions"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3758.82,"endTime":3762.96,"body":"regarding utilization. And the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3762.96,"endTime":3766.05,"body":"terms and conditions regarding"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3762.96,"endTime":3766.05,"body":"other than fair wear and tear."},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3766.6,"endTime":3771.28,"body":"Yeah, well,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3766.6,"endTime":3771.28,"body":"we've got a lot, a lot of hay"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3771.28,"endTime":3777.28,"body":"down here. What would you say"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3771.28,"endTime":3777.28,"body":"the bottom line is? What do we"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3777.31,"endTime":3782.02,"body":"what do we really need to think"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3777.31,"endTime":3782.02,"body":"about as we as we wrap up this"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3782.02,"endTime":3783.55,"body":"rate calculation episode,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3783.63,"endTime":3786.3,"body":"Michael, what I"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3783.63,"endTime":3786.3,"body":"would like our listeners to"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3786.3,"endTime":3793.44,"body":"really remember and ponder and"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3786.3,"endTime":3793.44,"body":"understand and make part of"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3793.44,"endTime":3801.36,"body":"their thinking is that a rate"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3793.44,"endTime":3801.36,"body":"for a machine is an awful lot"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3801.39,"endTime":3806.64,"body":"like an insurance premium. You"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3801.39,"endTime":3806.64,"body":"are making small regular"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3806.64,"endTime":3815.49,"body":"payments to provide for and"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3806.64,"endTime":3815.49,"body":"cover the cost of a large,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3815.82,"endTime":3823.29,"body":"discrete event. Okay. And our"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3815.82,"endTime":3823.29,"body":"rate is such it's a small,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3823.29,"endTime":3828.87,"body":"regular payment to cover the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3823.29,"endTime":3828.87,"body":"cost of large discrete payments."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3829.23,"endTime":3833.04,"body":"Maybe there was a large discrete"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3829.23,"endTime":3833.04,"body":"payment three months ago when we"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3833.04,"endTime":3837.48,"body":"bought it, or there'll be a"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3833.04,"endTime":3837.48,"body":"large discrete payment in two"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3837.48,"endTime":3841.86,"body":"months time when we replace the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3837.48,"endTime":3841.86,"body":"undercarriage, but we are making"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3841.86,"endTime":3849.18,"body":"these small regular payments to"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3841.86,"endTime":3849.18,"body":"cover the cost of large discrete"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3849.18,"endTime":3852.15,"body":"events that we hope like Hang"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3849.18,"endTime":3852.15,"body":"on, not going to happen. Right,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3852.15,"endTime":3856.62,"body":"right, right. But then as soon"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3852.15,"endTime":3856.62,"body":"as you have that as part of your"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3856.77,"endTime":3861.99,"body":"of your thinking process. I'd"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3856.77,"endTime":3861.99,"body":"like everybody to remember that"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3861.99,"endTime":3868.2,"body":"the higher your costs are high"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3861.99,"endTime":3868.2,"body":"or premium right because you"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3868.2,"endTime":3875.55,"body":"can't manufacture stuff stuffs a"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3868.2,"endTime":3875.55,"body":"cost is a cost is a cost. And in"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3875.55,"endTime":3881.19,"body":"the end, you've got a setup a"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3875.55,"endTime":3881.19,"body":"process, or making these small"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3881.19,"endTime":3887.79,"body":"continuous payments that cover"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3881.19,"endTime":3887.79,"body":"the cost of these large discrete"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3887.79,"endTime":3893.76,"body":"events. Man manage the large"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3887.79,"endTime":3893.76,"body":"discrete events. The small,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3894.06,"endTime":3899.16,"body":"regular payments will lover in"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3894.06,"endTime":3899.16,"body":"exactly the same way as you"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3899.16,"endTime":3902.7,"body":"manage your Are your"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3899.16,"endTime":3902.7,"body":"relationship with your insurance"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3902.7,"endTime":3906.24,"body":"company? Think about it right?"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3902.7,"endTime":3906.24,"body":"As an insurance premium?"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3907.11,"endTime":3909.63,"body":"Yeah, yeah, I"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3907.11,"endTime":3909.63,"body":"think that's useful. I think"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3909.63,"endTime":3913.29,"body":"it's a usual useful metaphor,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3909.63,"endTime":3913.29,"body":"because everybody, well, most"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3913.32,"endTime":3917.01,"body":"most people anyway, have a"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3913.32,"endTime":3917.01,"body":"vehicle that they're driving."},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3917.1,"endTime":3922.56,"body":"And if you experience several"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3917.1,"endTime":3922.56,"body":"accidents, have some siblings"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3922.56,"endTime":3927.18,"body":"that have teenage teenagers, and"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3922.56,"endTime":3927.18,"body":"they're experiencing this rate"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3927.18,"endTime":3936.21,"body":"premium increase due to the"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3927.18,"endTime":3936.21,"body":"proclivity of the teenager to"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3936.21,"endTime":3940.59,"body":"experience these large, discrete"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3936.21,"endTime":3940.59,"body":"events, and this is you know,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3940.59,"endTime":3945.9,"body":"it. Yeah, that resonates? Well,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3940.59,"endTime":3945.9,"body":"good. I think that that covers"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3945.9,"endTime":3949.62,"body":"it. I think this is a really"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3945.9,"endTime":3949.62,"body":"important chapter in the book, I"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3949.62,"endTime":3956.19,"body":"think that well, I can say that"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3949.62,"endTime":3956.19,"body":"nothing in all of the different"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3956.19,"endTime":3959.46,"body":"work I've done with different"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3956.19,"endTime":3959.46,"body":"companies has provoked as much"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3959.46,"endTime":3963.24,"body":"debate internal debate at"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3959.46,"endTime":3963.24,"body":"companies as the conversation"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3963.24,"endTime":3967.89,"body":"surrounding the rate"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3963.24,"endTime":3967.89,"body":"calculation. And I really,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3967.92,"endTime":3971.7,"body":"really appreciate the work"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3967.92,"endTime":3971.7,"body":"you've done here to make this"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3971.76,"endTime":3975.24,"body":"clear, so that we can have"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3971.76,"endTime":3975.24,"body":"debates about one thing at a"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3975.24,"endTime":3978.06,"body":"time. Let's talk about the"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3975.24,"endTime":3978.06,"body":"ownership period assumption."},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3978.3,"endTime":3980.79,"body":"Let's talk about the ownership"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3978.3,"endTime":3980.79,"body":"cost assumption. Let's start"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3980.79,"endTime":3983.97,"body":"with the operating cost"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3980.79,"endTime":3983.97,"body":"assumption. Because it can it"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3983.97,"endTime":3986.94,"body":"clarifies things for these"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3983.97,"endTime":3986.94,"body":"people that are trying to their"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3986.94,"endTime":3991.35,"body":"best to establish a rate that is"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3986.94,"endTime":3991.35,"body":"fair and works for them that"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3991.35,"endTime":3996.12,"body":"establishes their the correct"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3991.35,"endTime":3996.12,"body":"the correct premium to cover"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":3996.12,"endTime":3997.29,"body":"their actual costs."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3998.85,"endTime":4003.14,"body":"Yes, and remember"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":3998.85,"endTime":4003.14,"body":"our conversation about successes"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":4004.4,"endTime":4009.83,"body":"is come it comes as a from a"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":4004.4,"endTime":4009.83,"body":"team work, alright. And"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":4010.82,"endTime":4014.03,"body":"suspicion, if you wish, and"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":4010.82,"endTime":4014.03,"body":"uncertainty and a lack of"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":4014.03,"endTime":4020.78,"body":"knowledge about the rate is one"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":4014.03,"endTime":4020.78,"body":"of the issues that really,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":4020.78,"endTime":4027.05,"body":"really, really causes a lot of"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":4020.78,"endTime":4027.05,"body":"bad hygiene in the business or"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":4027.05,"endTime":4031.34,"body":"right. And that if we focus on"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":4027.05,"endTime":4031.34,"body":"the fact that success is a team"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":4031.34,"endTime":4036.74,"body":"sport, the members of that team"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":4031.34,"endTime":4036.74,"body":"have got to the right"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":4036.74,"endTime":4042.5,"body":"calculation and understand the"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":4036.74,"endTime":4042.5,"body":"right calculation. Because I've,"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":4043.37,"endTime":4046.52,"body":"it's difficult for me to"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":4043.37,"endTime":4046.52,"body":"conceive of the team playing"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":4046.52,"endTime":4052.67,"body":"together if the rate is a source"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":4046.52,"endTime":4052.67,"body":"of mistrust."},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":4053.09,"endTime":4056.48,"body":"Yeah, exactly."},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":4053.09,"endTime":4056.48,"body":"Well, good. Thank you for today."},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":4056.57,"endTime":4060.68,"body":"I'm sure we'll be talking soon"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":4056.57,"endTime":4060.68,"body":"about the next chapter or"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":4060.68,"endTime":4063.23,"body":"chapters. And I look forward to"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":4060.68,"endTime":4063.23,"body":"that."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":4063.679,"endTime":4065.539,"body":"Let's do that."},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":4063.679,"endTime":4065.539,"body":"Let's do that. Look forward to"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":4065.539,"endTime":4067.879,"body":"it very much indeed. And"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":4065.539,"endTime":4067.879,"body":"appreciate your time and"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":4068.209,"endTime":4071.719,"body":"everybody's time to listen to"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":4068.209,"endTime":4071.719,"body":"this old man practicing along"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":4071.839,"endTime":4074.509,"body":"playing along about the thing"},{"speaker":"Mike Vorster","startTime":4071.839,"endTime":4074.509,"body":"that really fascinates him."},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":4074.719,"endTime":4077.029,"body":"Yeah, well, I"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":4074.719,"endTime":4077.029,"body":"can tell you just from the"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":4077.029,"endTime":4079.489,"body":"number of downloads that there's"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":4077.029,"endTime":4079.489,"body":"a lot of people who like to hear"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":4079.489,"endTime":4087.049,"body":"that old man traveling along so"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":4079.489,"endTime":4087.049,"body":"keep it up. That's it for today,"},{"speaker":"Michael Kelley","startTime":4087.049,"endTime":4088.429,"body":"folks. See you next time."}]}