{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":8.914,"endTime":12.177,"body":"You know, I'd had a few instances in my life that had, you know, made me"},{"startTime":12.197,"endTime":16.041,"body":"a bit fearful of really being who I"},{"startTime":16.321,"endTime":19.964,"body":"authentically was. I sort of felt like I needed to shrink that"},{"startTime":20.025,"endTime":23.348,"body":"to fit particular roles or"},{"startTime":23.548,"endTime":26.731,"body":"ideas. So I think I"},{"startTime":26.811,"endTime":30.188,"body":"kept a lot inside. What"},{"startTime":30.248,"endTime":33.791,"body":"I ended up deciding to do was pretty much burn my life down."},{"startTime":34.271,"endTime":38.475,"body":"Around me, I was in the last year of my traineeship and"},{"startTime":38.915,"endTime":42.518,"body":"I decided that what I needed was to"},{"startTime":42.658,"endTime":46.621,"body":"be somewhere where no one knew who I was or what I'd experienced."},{"startTime":47.862,"endTime":51.025,"body":"I was just numbing though. I was just numbing myself out and"},{"startTime":51.045,"endTime":55.629,"body":"I didn't have to process what had happened. Sometimes,"},{"startTime":55.689,"endTime":58.911,"body":"you know, grandparents are represented in a way that they actually look like"},{"startTime":58.971,"endTime":62.453,"body":"great grandparents. We could challenge that a bit. You know, we could challenge those"},{"startTime":62.474,"endTime":65.876,"body":"stereotypes around aging because that's not what every"},{"startTime":68.438,"endTime":72.04,"body":"Hi, I'm Claire, founder of Creativity Found, a"},{"startTime":72.08,"endTime":76.001,"body":"community for creative learners and educators, connecting adults"},{"startTime":76.141,"endTime":79.283,"body":"who want to find a creative outlet with the artists and"},{"startTime":79.323,"endTime":82.864,"body":"crafters who can help them do so with workshops, courses,"},{"startTime":83.344,"endTime":86.646,"body":"online events and kits. For this podcast, I"},{"startTime":86.686,"endTime":90.487,"body":"chat with people who have found or re-found their creativity"},{"startTime":90.728,"endTime":94.489,"body":"as adults. We'll explore their childhood experiences of"},{"startTime":94.529,"endTime":98.25,"body":"the arts, discuss how they came to the artistic practices they"},{"startTime":98.29,"endTime":102.131,"body":"now love, and consider the barriers they may have experienced between"},{"startTime":102.171,"endTime":105.572,"body":"the two. We'll also explore what it is that people"},{"startTime":105.652,"endTime":110.254,"body":"value and gain from their newfound artistic pursuits. This"},{"startTime":110.334,"endTime":113.835,"body":"time, I'm chatting with Jessie Elliott about losing and,"},{"startTime":114.055,"endTime":117.716,"body":"more importantly, finding her sparkle, and"},{"startTime":121.656,"endTime":124.957,"body":"Hi Jess, how are you? I'm great, thanks Claire. How"},{"startTime":127.837,"endTime":131.338,"body":"You're very welcome. It's lovely to see you. So start by"},{"startTime":131.458,"endTime":134.979,"body":"telling me about the creative outlet that"},{"startTime":138.219,"endTime":141.88,"body":"Well, probably one of my biggest ones right"},{"startTime":141.92,"endTime":145.761,"body":"now is writing. So I have written"},{"startTime":146.061,"endTime":149.622,"body":"a picture book with one of my very, very good friends."},{"startTime":150.362,"endTime":153.872,"body":"So That idea, an idea sort"},{"startTime":153.892,"endTime":157.094,"body":"of came into my head, how long ago now"},{"startTime":157.154,"endTime":160.477,"body":"was it? 18 months. I was just out of the fourth"},{"startTime":160.517,"endTime":164.5,"body":"trimester with my daughter, so my second baby. And"},{"startTime":165.5,"endTime":169.183,"body":"I just thought to myself, ah, what about a story about"},{"startTime":169.223,"endTime":172.466,"body":"a mum who lost her expression? And sort"},{"startTime":172.486,"endTime":176.409,"body":"of from that moment, it all kind of just snowballed and"},{"startTime":176.489,"endTime":180.017,"body":"I reached out to my beautiful friend. Mary Sotiropoulos, who"},{"startTime":180.338,"endTime":183.603,"body":"is a primary school teacher. And I remember I shared the"},{"startTime":183.644,"endTime":187.09,"body":"idea with her and she was very encouraging, very"},{"startTime":187.13,"endTime":190.576,"body":"supportive. And I said, no, no, this is a joint project."},{"startTime":191.382,"endTime":195.144,"body":"So, you know, 18 months later it happened and"},{"startTime":195.444,"endTime":199.667,"body":"the mum who found her sparkle was born. It was just this really, just"},{"startTime":199.787,"endTime":203.249,"body":"wonderful way of me being inspired by"},{"startTime":203.269,"endTime":206.651,"body":"an experience I'd had after my first child, my little boy,"},{"startTime":206.671,"endTime":210.773,"body":"of postnatal depression and anxiety and using,"},{"startTime":210.853,"endTime":214.815,"body":"not only having that as a creative practice, but creating"},{"startTime":214.876,"endTime":218.418,"body":"a bit more, you know, language, some accessible language"},{"startTime":218.498,"endTime":222.116,"body":"around when we might be struggling or"},{"startTime":223.038,"endTime":226.563,"body":"might have lost our sparkle. So just creating some"},{"startTime":226.604,"endTime":230.069,"body":"of those opportunities to have those conversations with our little ones"},{"startTime":230.21,"endTime":233.255,"body":"and be able to feel worthy of focusing on"},{"startTime":234.99,"endTime":238.913,"body":"Yeah, we'll talk about the sparkle and why"},{"startTime":238.933,"endTime":242.175,"body":"you felt it was needed, your own experiences and"},{"startTime":242.235,"endTime":246.098,"body":"what you used to get your sparkle back as well. But"},{"startTime":246.358,"endTime":250.101,"body":"let's go back to you as a youngster, were"},{"startTime":250.321,"endTime":253.763,"body":"creative activities a big part of your childhood at"},{"startTime":256.305,"endTime":260.167,"body":"I probably, like so many people, would definitely"},{"startTime":260.727,"endTime":263.788,"body":"not necessarily identify myself as a"},{"startTime":263.888,"endTime":267.13,"body":"creative kid. I always tried to be a good girl, which I"},{"startTime":267.15,"endTime":270.471,"body":"know, you know, a lot of people experience. You"},{"startTime":270.491,"endTime":273.633,"body":"know, I'd had a few instances in my life that had, you know, made me"},{"startTime":273.653,"endTime":277.154,"body":"a bit fearful of really being who"},{"startTime":277.614,"endTime":280.996,"body":"I authentically was. I sort of felt like I needed to shrink"},{"startTime":281.516,"endTime":285.282,"body":"that to fit particular roles or"},{"startTime":285.482,"endTime":288.683,"body":"ideas. So I think I"},{"startTime":288.743,"endTime":292.424,"body":"kept a lot inside. I know though,"},{"startTime":293.144,"endTime":297.164,"body":"I did early on learn that I"},{"startTime":297.304,"endTime":301.025,"body":"felt, I guess, a lot of validation and an"},{"startTime":301.265,"endTime":304.486,"body":"ability to connect with someone in making them laugh. I"},{"startTime":304.706,"endTime":308.367,"body":"learned really early on that that was a way, yeah,"},{"startTime":308.387,"endTime":311.489,"body":"that I could connect with others and still kind of share a"},{"startTime":311.529,"endTime":314.751,"body":"bit of who I was. So I found that it has been had"},{"startTime":314.791,"endTime":318.293,"body":"an interesting impact on my life growing up."},{"startTime":318.654,"endTime":321.856,"body":"But I love to read and everything like that."},{"startTime":321.896,"endTime":325.198,"body":"I mean, I'd make up stories with my Barbies and, but"},{"startTime":325.218,"endTime":328.3,"body":"I mean, I couldn't draw, you know, I couldn't do those things that I"},{"startTime":328.36,"endTime":331.582,"body":"told myself would mean I was a creative, which I know it's"},{"startTime":335.961,"endTime":339.584,"body":"Definitely. I've heard it so much recently as"},{"startTime":339.684,"endTime":343.147,"body":"well and I'm talking with people all"},{"startTime":343.247,"endTime":347.03,"body":"over the world and they're all experiencing the same thing but not realizing"},{"startTime":347.07,"endTime":351.336,"body":"that all these other people are experiencing it as well. So"},{"startTime":351.376,"endTime":354.7,"body":"then if you said about wanting to"},{"startTime":355.38,"endTime":358.663,"body":"please and be in the right role, so tell"},{"startTime":358.703,"endTime":362.207,"body":"me about how your education continued, what your"},{"startTime":362.387,"endTime":365.55,"body":"plan was, whether it was your own plan, I don't know maybe you"},{"startTime":365.57,"endTime":368.893,"body":"were influenced in kind of what you went on and wanted to"},{"startTime":371.816,"endTime":375.9,"body":"I was always someone who wanted to fight"},{"startTime":375.94,"endTime":379.263,"body":"for someone who was facing discrimination or being"},{"startTime":379.364,"endTime":382.727,"body":"marginalized. I always felt a very strong sense"},{"startTime":383.087,"endTime":386.37,"body":"of justice and fairness. So that was"},{"startTime":386.41,"endTime":390.174,"body":"something that has always stayed with me throughout"},{"startTime":390.614,"endTime":394.393,"body":"my life. I think it definitely influenced the education"},{"startTime":394.473,"endTime":398.056,"body":"I tried to go into. So I did apply initially for"},{"startTime":398.116,"endTime":401.319,"body":"social work at uni and I didn't get into social work but"},{"startTime":401.36,"endTime":404.623,"body":"I got into social science and could major in"},{"startTime":404.723,"endTime":408.166,"body":"sociology and community development. And I had started"},{"startTime":408.206,"endTime":411.69,"body":"at uni and I was maybe a few weeks in and I saw a job for"},{"startTime":411.95,"endTime":415.573,"body":"a trainee community worker in local government. And"},{"startTime":415.593,"endTime":418.795,"body":"I remember my dad showed me the ad and I"},{"startTime":418.835,"endTime":422.016,"body":"thought, oh, yeah, that might be fun. That'd be really great. I just"},{"startTime":422.056,"endTime":425.398,"body":"need to have started a degree in social science. Yeah, I'm doing that. This"},{"startTime":425.418,"endTime":428.899,"body":"sounds awesome. I had no idea a job like that existed. In"},{"startTime":429.079,"endTime":432.221,"body":"Australia in high school, your careers advisor gave you this"},{"startTime":432.341,"endTime":435.802,"body":"really big book of careers, of jobs, and"},{"startTime":435.822,"endTime":439.625,"body":"it was like, there you go. Who's"},{"startTime":439.645,"endTime":442.866,"body":"won? Who's won for that? And I had seen"},{"startTime":442.926,"endTime":446.387,"body":"social worker, but in terms of community planning,"},{"startTime":446.447,"endTime":449.728,"body":"community development, I had no idea those types"},{"startTime":449.808,"endTime":453.269,"body":"of roles existed. So I applied for the role, I"},{"startTime":453.629,"endTime":457.81,"body":"got it, and I changed to external study"},{"startTime":457.93,"endTime":461.411,"body":"and worked full time. And I was with that organization for"},{"startTime":461.531,"endTime":465.492,"body":"five years in the trainee role, but"},{"startTime":465.532,"endTime":468.975,"body":"I guess For me, that's when things"},{"startTime":469.015,"endTime":472.415,"body":"kind of probably got really, really tricky because I lost my dad"},{"startTime":472.475,"endTime":475.896,"body":"to suicide. And at that time, so I was 22 and"},{"startTime":475.916,"endTime":479.317,"body":"I did not handle that very well"},{"startTime":479.657,"endTime":483.518,"body":"at all. And what I ended up deciding to"},{"startTime":483.538,"endTime":486.678,"body":"do was pretty much burn my life down around me."},{"startTime":486.759,"endTime":490.359,"body":"I was in the last year of my traineeship and"},{"startTime":490.779,"endTime":494.401,"body":"I decided that what I needed was to"},{"startTime":494.501,"endTime":498.503,"body":"be somewhere where no one knew who I was or what I'd experienced."},{"startTime":499.063,"endTime":503.504,"body":"So I left for Scotland. To go. Wow. Yeah."},{"startTime":503.744,"endTime":507.485,"body":"So, um, a little bit, a couple of steps back"},{"startTime":507.585,"endTime":511.226,"body":"was that one of my very, very good friends, she had been accepted"},{"startTime":511.286,"endTime":514.447,"body":"to go and do a semester abroad. And I said to"},{"startTime":514.487,"endTime":517.628,"body":"her, what would you think if I came with you? And she"},{"startTime":517.668,"endTime":521.47,"body":"said, okay, well, we can go to Leeds, Belfast"},{"startTime":521.87,"endTime":525.253,"body":"or Dundee. And I said, well, my"},{"startTime":525.373,"endTime":528.915,"body":"dad always wanted to go to Scotland and he never got there. How"},{"startTime":528.955,"endTime":532.898,"body":"about we go to Scotland? She's like, Dundee it is. So, so"},{"startTime":533.038,"endTime":536.54,"body":"she applied to go to Dundee Uni and my plan was"},{"startTime":536.7,"endTime":541.022,"body":"that I was just going to go for five months. I was in a relationship. We"},{"startTime":541.083,"endTime":544.324,"body":"lived together. We had a dog together. And, you know,"},{"startTime":544.384,"endTime":547.826,"body":"with my work, it was, you know, I said, oh no, I'm coming back. I'm just taking"},{"startTime":547.967,"endTime":551.649,"body":"five months leave without pay. I'm coming back. And I"},{"startTime":551.709,"endTime":554.779,"body":"left. You know, hugged my family goodbye. I"},{"startTime":555.399,"endTime":558.981,"body":"think at the airport that day though, I remember my mom being there, my sister"},{"startTime":559.061,"endTime":562.882,"body":"and my partner at the time, and we're just sitting and I'm waiting to go into that"},{"startTime":562.962,"endTime":566.464,"body":"next stage where family couldn't go anymore. And mom just started"},{"startTime":566.564,"endTime":569.725,"body":"crying. She was just like, you have to go now. Like, this is"},{"startTime":569.785,"endTime":573.747,"body":"torture. You can't just keep sitting here. So I was like, okay. So"},{"startTime":573.787,"endTime":577.488,"body":"I put my big girl pants on and left. And that"},{"startTime":577.949,"endTime":581.525,"body":"trip. My friend Laura, obviously, knew me,"},{"startTime":581.945,"endTime":585.506,"body":"but it was a completely new experience. And"},{"startTime":585.726,"endTime":588.908,"body":"I hung out with her for a couple of weeks while I sort of found my"},{"startTime":589.008,"endTime":592.849,"body":"feet. And then after that, we really had very separate experiences. So"},{"startTime":592.909,"endTime":596.43,"body":"I got a job at a pub and I did everything. Like"},{"startTime":596.49,"endTime":599.992,"body":"I did kitchen, bar, cleaning, everything. And"},{"startTime":600.152,"endTime":603.453,"body":"she had her uni friends. And sometimes we'd come together, but"},{"startTime":603.593,"endTime":606.794,"body":"it was really incredible to have also our own circles and, you know,"},{"startTime":606.854,"endTime":610.785,"body":"our own things going on. But I got"},{"startTime":610.825,"endTime":614.11,"body":"to do what I thought I needed to do. I was just numbing"},{"startTime":614.39,"endTime":618.076,"body":"though. I was just numbing myself out and I didn't have to process"},{"startTime":618.436,"endTime":621.701,"body":"what had happened. And so I got to kind"},{"startTime":621.741,"endTime":625.103,"body":"of just. be whoever I wanted. And I"},{"startTime":625.143,"endTime":628.244,"body":"think I felt very sort of close to my authentic self as"},{"startTime":628.285,"endTime":631.526,"body":"well during that year because I think"},{"startTime":631.566,"endTime":635.448,"body":"for me when I just experienced such a tragedy, it's"},{"startTime":635.508,"endTime":638.73,"body":"like all of the rules disappeared. I was so angry that that"},{"startTime":638.75,"endTime":642.052,"body":"had happened and so sad for losing my dad, but"},{"startTime":642.292,"endTime":645.754,"body":"I was really sick of following the rules and I"},{"startTime":645.794,"endTime":649.784,"body":"just I went off the rails, obviously. But"},{"startTime":650.064,"endTime":654.045,"body":"I think, you know, for me at that time, it was probably the real first dark"},{"startTime":654.105,"endTime":657.205,"body":"night of the soul that I'd experienced. And"},{"startTime":657.265,"endTime":660.546,"body":"nothing obviously was the same since that time. And"},{"startTime":661.686,"endTime":665.147,"body":"I ended up staying for nearly a year. My"},{"startTime":665.207,"endTime":668.468,"body":"friend came home after her semester and I"},{"startTime":668.588,"endTime":671.709,"body":"stayed. And at one point that was going to be"},{"startTime":671.769,"endTime":674.85,"body":"me, you know, I was going to live in Scotland. I"},{"startTime":674.87,"endTime":678.951,"body":"was never coming home. This was me. And I"},{"startTime":678.991,"endTime":682.733,"body":"remember even walking to work one day and just feeling this overall"},{"startTime":682.773,"endTime":686.154,"body":"sense of calm, like this is exactly where I needed to be."},{"startTime":686.254,"endTime":689.555,"body":"And I don't ever remember. There was only"},{"startTime":689.575,"endTime":692.916,"body":"probably one other time in my life that I had felt that. And"},{"startTime":692.976,"endTime":696.898,"body":"it was the first time I had experienced loss and"},{"startTime":696.918,"endTime":701.124,"body":"that was when Um, when I was 17, I lost my"},{"startTime":701.324,"endTime":704.827,"body":"very, very good friend to cancer. So I remember, you"},{"startTime":705.528,"endTime":709.011,"body":"know, a month after having that experience, maybe a little bit more, just,"},{"startTime":709.852,"endTime":713.855,"body":"you know, just having this just moment. I don't know. I'm not"},{"startTime":713.915,"endTime":717.138,"body":"quite sure what sort of was the lead up to it, but you know, I think"},{"startTime":717.178,"endTime":720.26,"body":"sometimes I like to think it was that person coming back and"},{"startTime":720.28,"endTime":723.403,"body":"just making sure I knew that I, you know, everything was okay. You"},{"startTime":723.443,"endTime":727.016,"body":"know, I was where I needed to be and I was loved. And I was supported."},{"startTime":727.316,"endTime":730.678,"body":"So interestingly, those are probably the only two"},{"startTime":730.718,"endTime":734.201,"body":"times in my life I remember experiencing that feeling"},{"startTime":734.241,"endTime":737.623,"body":"of just being calm and safe and loved. So"},{"startTime":737.823,"endTime":741.446,"body":"that's pretty unique, I think, in my life to experience like"},{"startTime":741.506,"endTime":745.769,"body":"those moments. But yeah, I remember I stayed in Scotland approaching"},{"startTime":745.829,"endTime":749.592,"body":"a year. I just started to feel this intense"},{"startTime":750.092,"endTime":753.775,"body":"ache for home. You know, I missed my mom. Her and"},{"startTime":753.815,"endTime":757.527,"body":"my sister had come over to visit. I'd been okay after"},{"startTime":757.547,"endTime":761.012,"body":"that still for a few more months, but I just remember just feeling this ache."},{"startTime":761.252,"endTime":764.476,"body":"This is where I needed to be at that point, but it's not"},{"startTime":764.516,"endTime":767.641,"body":"where I'm staying. And you know, that experience had been what"},{"startTime":768.202,"endTime":771.421,"body":"it needed to be for me. In saying that, I remember talking to"},{"startTime":771.441,"endTime":775.164,"body":"my sister and she said, you've only got a few more months. You've"},{"startTime":775.204,"endTime":778.586,"body":"said to yourself, you're going to come home at this point after the year. Do"},{"startTime":778.646,"endTime":782.069,"body":"that. You can do this. You can do this. I went"},{"startTime":782.129,"endTime":786.011,"body":"on a few more holidays because everything's so close. I"},{"startTime":787.813,"endTime":792.416,"body":"It was incredible. Well,"},{"startTime":792.436,"endTime":796.539,"body":"if you're going to come all that way, that's right."},{"startTime":797.263,"endTime":800.545,"body":"And I'm pretty certain my sister Shanna said something to that"},{"startTime":800.605,"endTime":804.066,"body":"effect. But during that time, you know, I was just numbing. I wasn't actually"},{"startTime":804.147,"endTime":807.428,"body":"doing anything yet, sort of just numbing, I think, and"},{"startTime":807.868,"endTime":811.37,"body":"wanting to process, but not really knowing what I needed to do."},{"startTime":811.61,"endTime":815.032,"body":"So do you think, looking back on it, and"},{"startTime":815.592,"endTime":819.034,"body":"we'll talk about the future in a minute, do"},{"startTime":819.074,"endTime":823.116,"body":"you think that that numbing then meant that"},{"startTime":823.476,"endTime":827.971,"body":"what you had been putting down came up again"},{"startTime":829.693,"endTime":833.475,"body":"I feel like probably it happened"},{"startTime":833.515,"endTime":839.019,"body":"when I experienced postnatal depression and anxiety with Finlay. It's"},{"startTime":839.059,"endTime":843.823,"body":"so fascinating. I just remember sort of falling"},{"startTime":843.883,"endTime":847.586,"body":"back, I guess, into old habits and"},{"startTime":847.726,"endTime":851.228,"body":"old beliefs when I came home. So that familiar"},{"startTime":851.288,"endTime":854.791,"body":"environment, you know, it sort of just, I slipped back"},{"startTime":854.911,"endTime":858.38,"body":"in. I didn't slip back into that job. That wasn't"},{"startTime":858.48,"endTime":861.725,"body":"sort of a possibility for me at that time. But yeah, I"},{"startTime":861.765,"endTime":865.29,"body":"do remember just sort of looking for that external"},{"startTime":865.33,"endTime":868.475,"body":"validation and for people to tell me who I"},{"startTime":868.515,"endTime":872.589,"body":"was and what I was meant to be doing. It"},{"startTime":872.629,"endTime":876.07,"body":"was so fascinating. I even, I remember I had this job"},{"startTime":876.53,"endTime":879.851,"body":"and it was in an industrial area. I was"},{"startTime":879.911,"endTime":883.232,"body":"the general manager's EA slash receptionist slash"},{"startTime":883.352,"endTime":886.613,"body":"person who invoiced slash people who nearly did payrolls. Like I did"},{"startTime":886.753,"endTime":889.894,"body":"everything. And I"},{"startTime":889.934,"endTime":893.655,"body":"just remember not, you know, I couldn't advocate on"},{"startTime":893.695,"endTime":897.296,"body":"behalf of myself. I was just trying to please everyone and"},{"startTime":897.336,"endTime":900.842,"body":"trying to be who everyone wanted me. to be."},{"startTime":900.862,"endTime":905.045,"body":"I had a lot of working through internalized misogyny"},{"startTime":905.425,"endTime":908.448,"body":"and, oh, I even hate to say it, but it was this little bit of a"},{"startTime":908.508,"endTime":912.952,"body":"pick-me energy. I hate it. I hate saying that. You"},{"startTime":912.972,"endTime":916.235,"body":"know, like there was still this, you know, looking to people older"},{"startTime":916.275,"endTime":920.398,"body":"than me, looking to men for that validation. This person"},{"startTime":920.438,"endTime":924.141,"body":"who I sort of reported to, who I just remember would say the most inappropriate"},{"startTime":924.201,"endTime":927.424,"body":"things and I would never feel like I could call this"},{"startTime":927.464,"endTime":930.996,"body":"person on it, but he was clearly taking advantage"},{"startTime":931.036,"endTime":934.837,"body":"of the fact that I was young and well, it was just really"},{"startTime":935.357,"endTime":938.619,"body":"odd. Like it was really odd, but just a time in my life when"},{"startTime":938.659,"endTime":941.74,"body":"I again just slipped back into trying to"},{"startTime":941.78,"endTime":945.101,"body":"make everyone else happy and yeah, just not"},{"startTime":945.161,"endTime":948.282,"body":"focusing on what I needed, what I wanted and"},{"startTime":948.322,"endTime":951.743,"body":"holding people accountable around me either. So yes."},{"startTime":952.524,"endTime":957.178,"body":"So you can see that now. What has changed? Yeah."},{"startTime":957.498,"endTime":960.939,"body":"To allow you to be able to vocalise that now and"},{"startTime":960.999,"endTime":964.16,"body":"be, to me, certainly talking to you right now, quite a"},{"startTime":967.14,"endTime":970.341,"body":"Ah, I got, um, I got sick of"},{"startTime":970.401,"endTime":977.522,"body":"myself, Claire. I"},{"startTime":977.602,"endTime":980.883,"body":"am absolutely over this because experiencing what"},{"startTime":980.923,"endTime":984.504,"body":"I did with Finlay, you know, just feeling that maternal rage"},{"startTime":984.804,"endTime":988.158,"body":"of, Why is this on me? Why is this happening to"},{"startTime":988.198,"endTime":992.244,"body":"me? Where is my village? It sort of started very"},{"startTime":992.344,"endTime":995.789,"body":"quietly because I would sort of try and shove it down, but to a"},{"startTime":995.869,"endTime":999.234,"body":"point where I just couldn't, I could no longer ignore that it was there"},{"startTime":999.414,"endTime":1003.358,"body":"and that I wanted more. and that I deserved more. So,"},{"startTime":1003.858,"endTime":1007.441,"body":"yeah, I think that that was definitely the catalyst for me"},{"startTime":1007.962,"endTime":1011.344,"body":"not accepting that I could continue the way"},{"startTime":1011.484,"endTime":1014.807,"body":"that I was and knowing that I"},{"startTime":1014.867,"endTime":1018.85,"body":"had a voice and that I absolutely can"},{"startTime":1018.93,"endTime":1023.306,"body":"share that voice to challenge rigid gender stereotypes, do"},{"startTime":1023.386,"endTime":1026.587,"body":"my part to bring about gender equity. I'm raising a"},{"startTime":1026.647,"endTime":1029.849,"body":"son and a daughter. I have a huge role to be able to"},{"startTime":1031.129,"endTime":1034.911,"body":"bring my children up to expect equal"},{"startTime":1034.951,"endTime":1041.293,"body":"division of labor in a household. It's"},{"startTime":1041.633,"endTime":1045.155,"body":"so fascinating. So much of it starts there, people"},{"startTime":1045.415,"endTime":1049.236,"body":"feeling worthy of rest and for"},{"startTime":1049.256,"endTime":1052.582,"body":"their own joy. I think that's again,"},{"startTime":1052.622,"endTime":1056.124,"body":"you know, with Sparkle, just something that it's a conversation I"},{"startTime":1056.144,"endTime":1059.406,"body":"wanted to contribute to, but in my way, because I"},{"startTime":1059.426,"endTime":1063.088,"body":"think I find it very easy to be silly"},{"startTime":1063.388,"endTime":1066.609,"body":"and like to use humor. That is like"},{"startTime":1066.649,"endTime":1069.931,"body":"a default for me. And it's something that I really enjoy, even"},{"startTime":1069.971,"endTime":1073.673,"body":"though it did somewhat start as this ability to connect with"},{"startTime":1073.753,"endTime":1077.249,"body":"someone and, you know, receive that. Um, it wasn't praise, but"},{"startTime":1077.269,"endTime":1080.552,"body":"it was attention, but I sort of, I learned like, yes,"},{"startTime":1080.632,"endTime":1084.275,"body":"you know, that's a way that feels really good for you to help others feel"},{"startTime":1084.395,"endTime":1088.378,"body":"safe and welcome and valid."},{"startTime":1088.578,"endTime":1091.721,"body":"So yeah, it's, it's become a bit of a, a"},{"startTime":1091.761,"endTime":1095.384,"body":"superpower and one that I absolutely enjoy using"},{"startTime":1095.444,"endTime":1098.666,"body":"and definitely even support my creative practice, which"},{"startTime":1099.842,"endTime":1103.726,"body":"Speaking of creative practice, how does this come"},{"startTime":1103.966,"endTime":1107.83,"body":"in and how do you then use that,"},{"startTime":1107.85,"endTime":1112.475,"body":"know you want to do something with that and how do you physically, logistically"},{"startTime":1114.998,"endTime":1118.101,"body":"Yes, that's right. And I started a little bit with my"},{"startTime":1118.141,"endTime":1121.715,"body":"biggest, Finlay. So I would set"},{"startTime":1122.175,"endTime":1125.836,"body":"a certain writing task. I didn't know why I did this. It sort of just happened"},{"startTime":1126.036,"endTime":1129.698,"body":"after maybe nine, 10 months. I sort of said to myself on a Monday, you"},{"startTime":1129.718,"endTime":1133.059,"body":"do this. On a Tuesday, you do this. And I found a real good sense"},{"startTime":1133.099,"endTime":1136.42,"body":"of purpose in that. It was, you know, having a bit of not"},{"startTime":1136.661,"endTime":1140.382,"body":"structure, but it was if you can write a few sentences about"},{"startTime":1140.422,"endTime":1143.9,"body":"this certain prompt in a day, then Like,"},{"startTime":1143.94,"endTime":1147.422,"body":"that's awesome, like great job and you've done something for you amongst"},{"startTime":1148.823,"endTime":1151.904,"body":"all of the noise and everything else and people needing you. So it"},{"startTime":1151.944,"endTime":1155.466,"body":"started small like that. And then that grew"},{"startTime":1155.546,"endTime":1159.288,"body":"and grew and grew and I started writing more about my experience and"},{"startTime":1159.308,"endTime":1162.449,"body":"I ended up getting published in Elephant Journal when I"},{"startTime":1162.849,"endTime":1166.511,"body":"think it was, you know, maybe Finley was maybe 18 months old. So"},{"startTime":1166.551,"endTime":1170.013,"body":"just writing about an experience I'd had. So the article"},{"startTime":1170.053,"endTime":1173.696,"body":"was called Toxic Professionalism. for traits that"},{"startTime":1174.197,"endTime":1177.364,"body":"are considered professional but are actually toxic. So"},{"startTime":1177.404,"endTime":1181.033,"body":"I wrote that article. Um, it"},{"startTime":1181.073,"endTime":1184.295,"body":"was quite a few thousand words and yeah, published it and"},{"startTime":1184.335,"endTime":1187.417,"body":"it got three and a half thousand reads and I"},{"startTime":1187.757,"endTime":1190.979,"body":"think maybe 80 hearts and all this type of thing. So the"},{"startTime":1191.019,"endTime":1194.621,"body":"message kind of really resonated with people. So you"},{"startTime":1194.661,"endTime":1198.343,"body":"just, again, more of that ability to connect with others through sharing"},{"startTime":1198.743,"endTime":1201.905,"body":"vulnerably, um, your experience. So I sort of"},{"startTime":1201.945,"endTime":1205.548,"body":"just kept going, kept going. But when I was leading into"},{"startTime":1205.828,"endTime":1208.911,"body":"having my second Esther. I knew how important it"},{"startTime":1208.971,"endTime":1212.316,"body":"was to have that space for my creativity for"},{"startTime":1212.356,"endTime":1215.742,"body":"her. I knew how important that was. And so it started with me"},{"startTime":1215.782,"endTime":1219.603,"body":"having this plan. I had a book, my fourth trimester"},{"startTime":1219.683,"endTime":1223.025,"body":"creativity book, so that little period of time after"},{"startTime":1223.085,"endTime":1226.288,"body":"having a baby, that fourth trimester. And I said to"},{"startTime":1226.308,"endTime":1230.271,"body":"myself every day, I'm going to write something or"},{"startTime":1230.311,"endTime":1233.734,"body":"take a photo or make a video. And it's going to just be"},{"startTime":1233.774,"endTime":1237.336,"body":"about one, just like a sharing my experience, but two, tuning"},{"startTime":1237.477,"endTime":1240.739,"body":"into what I was feeling emotionally, because as"},{"startTime":1240.899,"endTime":1245.147,"body":"a good girl, I had no idea what I was feeling ever. I"},{"startTime":1245.187,"endTime":1248.729,"body":"really struggled to identify my emotions properly."},{"startTime":1249.21,"endTime":1252.873,"body":"So it was wanting to try and honor that as well and"},{"startTime":1252.913,"endTime":1257.016,"body":"build that skill and get a bit better at that. So I started doing"},{"startTime":1257.076,"endTime":1260.779,"body":"that and it was writing, but then it became making collages on"},{"startTime":1260.839,"endTime":1264.742,"body":"Canva and then it became making reels,"},{"startTime":1265.063,"endTime":1269.586,"body":"which I had so much fun doing. progressively"},{"startTime":1269.806,"endTime":1273.168,"body":"sort of grew. And as that happened, the trust in"},{"startTime":1273.208,"endTime":1276.831,"body":"myself and my beliefs around me being creative"},{"startTime":1276.871,"endTime":1280.174,"body":"were really just challenged in a greater way than had"},{"startTime":1280.234,"endTime":1283.516,"body":"been before. So, you know, I just had"},{"startTime":1283.556,"endTime":1286.618,"body":"this situation where I was gaining in confidence and I"},{"startTime":1286.658,"endTime":1290.261,"body":"was feeling really brave to try new things. And"},{"startTime":1290.321,"endTime":1293.503,"body":"when that, when Sparkle came to me, when she came to"},{"startTime":1293.543,"endTime":1297.005,"body":"me, I had done so much work over"},{"startTime":1297.065,"endTime":1300.226,"body":"my life to believe that I could"},{"startTime":1300.266,"endTime":1303.307,"body":"say to that idea, yes, you're safe with me, I"},{"startTime":1303.687,"endTime":1306.988,"body":"will bring you to life. So yeah, I had done a lot"},{"startTime":1307.008,"endTime":1310.649,"body":"to sort of lead into it and it"},{"startTime":1310.689,"endTime":1314.171,"body":"definitely wasn't for me, it wasn't for me just deciding one"},{"startTime":1314.211,"endTime":1317.512,"body":"day I was going to do it. There was a lot of work of"},{"startTime":1321.958,"endTime":1326.659,"body":"I'm assuming you recognised that this was helping with"},{"startTime":1326.679,"endTime":1330.06,"body":"the way you were feeling soon after having Finlay. So"},{"startTime":1330.22,"endTime":1333.621,"body":"when you decided to do it with Esther, were"},{"startTime":1333.661,"endTime":1336.862,"body":"you afraid that you were going to go through that again and you"},{"startTime":1336.882,"endTime":1340.162,"body":"were using the fourth trimester diary ahead of time to"},{"startTime":1341.543,"endTime":1344.884,"body":"Yes, I was terrified. I think we both were."},{"startTime":1344.904,"endTime":1348.024,"body":"I think Mitch and I, we didn't speak about it specifically, but I"},{"startTime":1348.084,"endTime":1351.606,"body":"think that he was also quite terrified of what"},{"startTime":1351.646,"endTime":1354.768,"body":"might happen, you know, mentally with me. And because it"},{"startTime":1354.808,"endTime":1358.331,"body":"wasn't the first time, I had depression after my dad,"},{"startTime":1358.451,"endTime":1361.994,"body":"after we lost him, and leading into conceiving"},{"startTime":1362.034,"endTime":1365.316,"body":"Finlay, I had anxiety such"},{"startTime":1365.416,"endTime":1369.199,"body":"to a point that we couldn't conceive for nearly"},{"startTime":1369.72,"endTime":1373.603,"body":"18 months. And that was brought about by a unique situation in"},{"startTime":1373.983,"endTime":1377.286,"body":"my life, not related to Mitch at all, but"},{"startTime":1377.706,"endTime":1383.127,"body":"it was, you know, one of those things you just can't say. But"},{"startTime":1383.147,"endTime":1387.388,"body":"it was a situation in my life. And so,"},{"startTime":1387.748,"endTime":1391.449,"body":"quickly giving a little bit more context to that, once that particular person"},{"startTime":1391.769,"endTime":1394.97,"body":"was removed from my life, not through anything that I could do,"},{"startTime":1395.03,"endTime":1400.37,"body":"but they were removed, we conceived three weeks later. So,"},{"startTime":1400.851,"endTime":1404.691,"body":"isn't it? So, it's very interesting. And that's not everyone's experience,"},{"startTime":1404.731,"endTime":1408.352,"body":"but that was a unique experience that we had. So, yeah, I'd"},{"startTime":1408.392,"endTime":1411.62,"body":"had a few. experiences with depression and"},{"startTime":1411.68,"endTime":1415.047,"body":"anxiety and then had the postnatal depression anxiety"},{"startTime":1415.067,"endTime":1418.328,"body":"with. But yeah, I was just, I"},{"startTime":1418.468,"endTime":1421.67,"body":"knew how much it helped. Like you said, I knew that"},{"startTime":1421.71,"endTime":1425.353,"body":"it was something that I needed to focus on to make sure I stayed mentally"},{"startTime":1425.413,"endTime":1429.376,"body":"well. And I can't even compare, even"},{"startTime":1429.436,"endTime":1433.379,"body":"in the slightest, both of those experiences of becoming postpartum. They're"},{"startTime":1433.419,"endTime":1436.641,"body":"just completely chalk and cheese. The birth was chalk and"},{"startTime":1436.681,"endTime":1440.144,"body":"cheese. So yeah, it was just so interesting to have such a different"},{"startTime":1440.344,"endTime":1444.387,"body":"experience and how much it impacted me"},{"startTime":1444.467,"endTime":1447.756,"body":"when I had that for me"},{"startTime":1447.936,"endTime":1451.119,"body":"when I knew I needed something for me. I needed to"},{"startTime":1451.179,"endTime":1454.481,"body":"plan for my creativity just as much as I planned to"},{"startTime":1454.521,"endTime":1458.364,"body":"get a postpartum doula or that we had friends and family provide"},{"startTime":1458.525,"endTime":1462.568,"body":"us meals. I knew that I needed to include that element to"},{"startTime":1462.668,"endTime":1466.011,"body":"stay really mentally well in the postpartum. And"},{"startTime":1466.051,"endTime":1469.313,"body":"I mean, look, I mean, obviously I was already postpartum, but"},{"startTime":1469.353,"endTime":1472.488,"body":"in the second time, You know,"},{"startTime":1472.529,"endTime":1475.59,"body":"I think it's really for me too, because I had done a lot of"},{"startTime":1475.81,"endTime":1479.492,"body":"work learning about, you know, the myth of the perfect mother and"},{"startTime":1479.832,"endTime":1483.454,"body":"intensive mothering. I'd done a lot of work looking at these"},{"startTime":1484.414,"endTime":1487.996,"body":"stereotypes, these standard, these beliefs we have about"},{"startTime":1488.056,"endTime":1491.778,"body":"what it means to be a mother. And I had been able to start unpacking"},{"startTime":1491.818,"endTime":1495.2,"body":"them to a way that I could throw some away that"},{"startTime":1495.28,"endTime":1498.962,"body":"I didn't feel resonated with me. And I could understand that"},{"startTime":1499.122,"endTime":1503.346,"body":"what we are expected to do is is not possible. We're"},{"startTime":1503.386,"endTime":1507.247,"body":"being set up to fail. Because I didn't have those things"},{"startTime":1507.868,"endTime":1511.669,"body":"as such of a bigger deal the second time, I happily"},{"startTime":1511.709,"endTime":1515.01,"body":"had a lift in-house. It was fine. Things got done"},{"startTime":1515.31,"endTime":1518.65,"body":"when they got done or they didn't get done at all and I didn't give"},{"startTime":1525.159,"endTime":1528.9,"body":"come a long way from what you were telling me about"},{"startTime":1529.16,"endTime":1532.761,"body":"when you were younger and in your young career and"},{"startTime":1532.821,"endTime":1535.941,"body":"these roles that you feel you should be fitted into. And as"},{"startTime":1535.981,"endTime":1539.422,"body":"you say, motherhood has got so much external roles"},{"startTime":1539.482,"endTime":1542.703,"body":"that we're shown how it should be and"},{"startTime":1542.743,"endTime":1546.283,"body":"how we should be as parents. So it's a really lovely"},{"startTime":1546.343,"endTime":1549.824,"body":"long way that you were able to get past that and let go"},{"startTime":1550.024,"endTime":1553.205,"body":"of that. So is that a bit of a theme with Sparkle as"},{"startTime":1554.305,"endTime":1558.328,"body":"Yeah. I mean, obviously with Mary, she experienced postnatal"},{"startTime":1558.348,"endTime":1561.951,"body":"depression. So it was her and I really bonded"},{"startTime":1562.171,"endTime":1566.315,"body":"over having some similar experiences there. So the idea came"},{"startTime":1566.535,"endTime":1569.838,"body":"about, you know, wanting to really inspire mothers. But"},{"startTime":1569.878,"endTime":1573.581,"body":"I think what ended up happening is it is this beautiful book"},{"startTime":1573.621,"endTime":1577.177,"body":"that can inspire anyone to shed their shoots. and"},{"startTime":1577.217,"endTime":1581.339,"body":"then, you know, feel supported and encouraged to follow their joy. So that's"},{"startTime":1581.379,"endTime":1584.84,"body":"sort of been where it's gone. And I mean, like with all"},{"startTime":1585.14,"endTime":1588.681,"body":"art, we can't control how people perceive it"},{"startTime":1588.781,"endTime":1591.923,"body":"or experience it, can we? We bring that idea to life and"},{"startTime":1591.963,"endTime":1595.464,"body":"then what happens after that is what happens. But we have got"},{"startTime":1595.564,"endTime":1599.185,"body":"so many beautiful messages from women in particular that"},{"startTime":1599.225,"endTime":1602.647,"body":"have read the book and then just felt quite emotional about how"},{"startTime":1602.727,"endTime":1607.2,"body":"seen they have felt through that experience. So"},{"startTime":1607.22,"endTime":1610.361,"body":"it is centered on mothers, but"},{"startTime":1610.401,"endTime":1613.782,"body":"we love that a lot of people get different things out of it. Esther,"},{"startTime":1613.802,"endTime":1616.903,"body":"my two-year-old, she loves looking for sparkle in all of"},{"startTime":1616.923,"endTime":1620.244,"body":"the individual pages. And there's another little page where"},{"startTime":1620.284,"endTime":1623.766,"body":"they're in a train carriage and our mum and"},{"startTime":1623.986,"endTime":1627.327,"body":"T and Oscar, her little ones, they're in a glow stick"},{"startTime":1627.367,"endTime":1630.788,"body":"party. And we'll get to that page and Esther will do a little dance when"},{"startTime":1633.248,"endTime":1636.331,"body":"So yeah, just her experience, just having that joy, you"},{"startTime":1636.751,"endTime":1640.954,"body":"know, is very different to, you know, maybe a fellow mum who also experienced"},{"startTime":1641.254,"endTime":1644.776,"body":"not even necessarily postnatal depression anxiety, but felt the"},{"startTime":1644.896,"endTime":1648.119,"body":"pressure around her when she became a mum and didn't"},{"startTime":1648.299,"endTime":1651.521,"body":"feel like she could have anything for herself. So yeah, just a"},{"startTime":1651.581,"endTime":1654.883,"body":"very, very different experience for each individual. But within"},{"startTime":1654.903,"endTime":1658.344,"body":"the book too, going back to my real passion for gender"},{"startTime":1658.425,"endTime":1661.746,"body":"equity, we've got our dad character in the book. He"},{"startTime":1661.766,"endTime":1665.247,"body":"has no speaking lines, but he's a very important presence"},{"startTime":1665.327,"endTime":1668.788,"body":"in the household in that he's a very active participant. We've"},{"startTime":1668.808,"endTime":1672.63,"body":"got him illustrated folding, washing, and not"},{"startTime":1672.73,"endTime":1676.091,"body":"practicing weaponized incompetence. Mom and the kids go for the day,"},{"startTime":1676.111,"endTime":1679.532,"body":"and he's not screaming"},{"startTime":1679.592,"endTime":1682.794,"body":"out the door, when does the baby need to go to sleep? He's like, what?"},{"startTime":1687.016,"endTime":1690.138,"body":"Yeah, that kind of thing makes my husband so cross and you"},{"startTime":1690.198,"endTime":1694.141,"body":"still see it on things like TV shows. Yeah. Weaponized incompetence."},{"startTime":1694.201,"endTime":1697.623,"body":"I only heard that for the first time the other day. That's quite amusing."},{"startTime":1697.923,"endTime":1701.425,"body":"But yeah, my husband gets really, really cross when blokes are"},{"startTime":1701.465,"endTime":1704.847,"body":"shown to be buffoons when the mother's not"},{"startTime":1704.887,"endTime":1708.009,"body":"there and he's like, we do that. We can do these things. And"},{"startTime":1708.13,"endTime":1711.332,"body":"I still find it remarkable with everything else"},{"startTime":1711.392,"endTime":1714.693,"body":"in this day and age that that kind of imagery still out there and"},{"startTime":1716.214,"endTime":1719.515,"body":"Yes, there should be rules. There should be rules. There"},{"startTime":1719.595,"endTime":1723.236,"body":"is some really great resources that I forget the organization,"},{"startTime":1723.256,"endTime":1726.917,"body":"but I'll find it and let you know, but they provide some really great guidance"},{"startTime":1727.117,"endTime":1730.618,"body":"on how illustrations are represented in picture books. But"},{"startTime":1730.638,"endTime":1734.739,"body":"there's some great resources out there for authors and illustrators that"},{"startTime":1734.759,"endTime":1739.001,"body":"if they're passionate about that, which we all should be. I"},{"startTime":1739.021,"endTime":1742.701,"body":"shouldn't say should. Claire, I shouldn't say should, which would"},{"startTime":1749.803,"endTime":1752.984,"body":"We're doing our best. We are doing our best. That's all we"},{"startTime":1753.004,"endTime":1756.505,"body":"could do. But yes, so there is some great resources. The"},{"startTime":1756.605,"endTime":1759.785,"body":"other thing that I really love about our book is so at"},{"startTime":1759.845,"endTime":1763.023,"body":"the end, because we do a bit of a before and after. in an"},{"startTime":1763.103,"endTime":1766.905,"body":"illustration. At the beginning, we've kind of got it, you know, mum's really"},{"startTime":1766.945,"endTime":1771.306,"body":"just, she's clearly, she's sad, she's exhausted. Sparkle"},{"startTime":1771.507,"endTime":1774.828,"body":"is out the window, just looking really concerned back at mum and,"},{"startTime":1775.228,"endTime":1778.409,"body":"you know, the house is very, very lived in and everything like that. The"},{"startTime":1778.449,"endTime":1781.771,"body":"kids are happy though, like they're doing their thing and loving it. Dad's"},{"startTime":1781.791,"endTime":1784.972,"body":"there folding, washing and there's a little bubba that's then pulling all the washing back"},{"startTime":1785.532,"endTime":1789.173,"body":"But then at the end we've got that exact same scene but Sparkle's"},{"startTime":1789.213,"endTime":1792.594,"body":"reintegrated into mum, she's there breastfeeding, the"},{"startTime":1792.654,"endTime":1796.895,"body":"dad's doing his thing, the kids are playing and then we've got grandparents. So"},{"startTime":1796.955,"endTime":1800.116,"body":"grandparents are in the kitchen and they're just helping out doing some"},{"startTime":1800.136,"endTime":1803.516,"body":"bits and pieces and that's also for us, you know, demonstrating the"},{"startTime":1803.556,"endTime":1806.885,"body":"importance of a village. It's also"},{"startTime":1806.945,"endTime":1810.907,"body":"important for us in how we visually represented"},{"startTime":1811.027,"endTime":1814.689,"body":"our grandparents because I think sometimes when you see picture books, for"},{"startTime":1814.729,"endTime":1818.011,"body":"me, I would look at those grandparents and they don't look like"},{"startTime":1818.071,"endTime":1822.433,"body":"my mom. My mom's a grandparent and sometimes grandparents"},{"startTime":1822.673,"endTime":1825.995,"body":"are represented in a way that they actually look like great grandparents. We"},{"startTime":1826.015,"endTime":1829.636,"body":"could challenge that a bit. We could challenge those stereotypes around aging"},{"startTime":1829.656,"endTime":1833.228,"body":"because that's not what every grandparent looks like."},{"startTime":1833.288,"endTime":1837.475,"body":"So, you know, we've got a bit more of, I"},{"startTime":1837.515,"endTime":1840.7,"body":"want to say realistic, but only because that's my lived experience, but we've got"},{"startTime":1840.72,"endTime":1844.086,"body":"a different representation there to challenge that"},{"startTime":1845.14,"endTime":1848.942,"body":"Yeah, there is definitely that. There's"},{"startTime":1848.982,"endTime":1852.324,"body":"an advert on the telly here and the"},{"startTime":1852.364,"endTime":1855.705,"body":"woman in it, she says she's 50 and I'm looking and"},{"startTime":1855.765,"endTime":1858.907,"body":"she's got like a seven-year-old grandchild and"},{"startTime":1859.067,"endTime":1862.589,"body":"she looks about 75 and I'm like who thinks"},{"startTime":1862.649,"endTime":1865.97,"body":"that that woman is 50 and she's playing"},{"startTime":1866.01,"endTime":1869.292,"body":"with her grandchild so therefore she's retired and where does"},{"startTime":1869.312,"endTime":1873.273,"body":"somebody get that idea that that's what a I'm 52, I'm"},{"startTime":1877.775,"endTime":1881.036,"body":"And that's a whole other conversation, isn't it? You know, how we"},{"startTime":1881.096,"endTime":1884.677,"body":"represent women in various types of media. The"},{"startTime":1884.777,"endTime":1888.418,"body":"ages of women that we select that are the actress to"},{"startTime":1888.458,"endTime":1892.058,"body":"play a certain role, it's just, it's"},{"startTime":1892.619,"endTime":1895.94,"body":"obviously, you know, adds to our conditioning when we're growing"},{"startTime":1896.04,"endTime":1899.636,"body":"up, but just reinforces these ideas and"},{"startTime":1899.696,"endTime":1904.002,"body":"beliefs when we're older as well. It's really damaging,"},{"startTime":1904.462,"endTime":1908.666,"body":"isn't it? And it's not real. Yeah, it's"},{"startTime":1908.726,"endTime":1912.347,"body":"quite remarkable. Yeah, and I mean, in"},{"startTime":1912.627,"endTime":1915.968,"body":"May I turned 37 and I'm so excited about it. I remember"},{"startTime":1916.008,"endTime":1919.448,"body":"being 18 and I had a different vision of what"},{"startTime":1919.488,"endTime":1923.029,"body":"a 37-year-old would look like because just"},{"startTime":1923.409,"endTime":1927.11,"body":"based on what I had seen around me and"},{"startTime":1927.17,"endTime":1931.431,"body":"it's just so wildly inaccurate and"},{"startTime":1931.831,"endTime":1935.545,"body":"ridiculous. And I mean, we are all different, but"},{"startTime":1935.865,"endTime":1938.969,"body":"yeah, it just, it wasn't what I saw growing up."},{"startTime":1939.149,"endTime":1942.472,"body":"It's just so, yeah, it's fascinating and a lot for us to"},{"startTime":1947.987,"endTime":1951.148,"body":"Well, talking about phases of life, and we're not talking about"},{"startTime":1951.188,"endTime":1954.949,"body":"phases of life because that's another pigeonhole that"},{"startTime":1955.009,"endTime":1958.969,"body":"is put on a people, but I am thinking about you now that"},{"startTime":1959.049,"endTime":1962.75,"body":"you've got this confidence and you've got a new awareness"},{"startTime":1962.95,"endTime":1967.011,"body":"of your own life, what you're seeing around you, representations,"},{"startTime":1967.751,"endTime":1971.792,"body":"and you said, was it Esther's two and so Finlay's older?"},{"startTime":1971.812,"endTime":1975.073,"body":"Nearly five. How are you seeing things for"},{"startTime":1975.113,"endTime":1978.315,"body":"you next, because often parents are showed"},{"startTime":1978.355,"endTime":1981.837,"body":"with the little ones and then there are middly ages"},{"startTime":1981.897,"endTime":1985.14,"body":"of children and parents that are relevant to that, that you"},{"startTime":1985.18,"endTime":1988.502,"body":"don't have any problems. It's only babies that make things"},{"startTime":1988.542,"endTime":1992.164,"body":"hard for you. What are you imagining"},{"startTime":1992.184,"endTime":1995.586,"body":"for yourself as you grow as a parent, your children grow,"},{"startTime":1995.846,"endTime":1999.068,"body":"and the way you're using your creativity and what you've done"},{"startTime":1999.108,"endTime":2002.611,"body":"with the book? What thoughts have you got going forward?"},{"startTime":2002.771,"endTime":2006.717,"body":"What a wonderful question. It's"},{"startTime":2006.777,"endTime":2009.98,"body":"such a beautiful thing to think about. For me, with"},{"startTime":2010.08,"endTime":2013.503,"body":"writing, that's definitely something I will always"},{"startTime":2013.583,"endTime":2017.606,"body":"continue to do. I have a couple of other projects in the works now,"},{"startTime":2018.327,"endTime":2021.67,"body":"but that little local government heart, that's actually still"},{"startTime":2021.73,"endTime":2025.553,"body":"very alive and well. After my quarter-life crisis in"},{"startTime":2025.613,"endTime":2029.3,"body":"Scotland, which obviously I loved, I"},{"startTime":2029.64,"endTime":2033.262,"body":"did a couple of other jobs, but I've landed back in local"},{"startTime":2033.302,"endTime":2037.364,"body":"government. So I've been back in local government for maybe,"},{"startTime":2037.384,"endTime":2040.726,"body":"I think it's nearly 10 years. So I have still been"},{"startTime":2040.766,"endTime":2044.428,"body":"doing various roles within that community planning, community development"},{"startTime":2044.708,"endTime":2048.159,"body":"space. And I think just these last two"},{"startTime":2048.239,"endTime":2051.842,"body":"years in particular, my ability to advocate"},{"startTime":2051.922,"endTime":2055.684,"body":"not just for myself, but on behalf of the community when"},{"startTime":2055.744,"endTime":2059.186,"body":"necessary for, you know, needs and gaps I'm seeing, or even"},{"startTime":2059.386,"endTime":2063.048,"body":"feel confident to put forward ideas, all"},{"startTime":2063.068,"endTime":2066.69,"body":"of that has I trust myself"},{"startTime":2066.83,"endTime":2070.312,"body":"so much more and I'm not looking for that validation. I"},{"startTime":2070.392,"endTime":2073.574,"body":"know what I'm seeing. I know that"},{"startTime":2073.614,"endTime":2076.916,"body":"my experience will support me in taking these"},{"startTime":2076.996,"endTime":2080.337,"body":"next steps. So I trust myself. Already,"},{"startTime":2080.357,"endTime":2083.678,"body":"there's quite a few incredible projects I'm getting to do in my"},{"startTime":2083.738,"endTime":2087.199,"body":"current role back at the same local government that I started"},{"startTime":2087.279,"endTime":2090.6,"body":"my career at as a trainee. So that's very, very"},{"startTime":2090.66,"endTime":2094.201,"body":"special. I'm working with a lot of the same community and there's some colleagues"},{"startTime":2094.241,"endTime":2097.502,"body":"that are the same as well, which is phenomenal. So it's just"},{"startTime":2097.542,"endTime":2101.064,"body":"been incredible doing this full circle and coming back"},{"startTime":2101.244,"endTime":2105.325,"body":"and then being able to share everything that I've experienced"},{"startTime":2105.425,"endTime":2108.946,"body":"and everything of me that's relevant for the role there."},{"startTime":2109.416,"endTime":2112.878,"body":"And I'm finding there's a lot of crossovers too, so that's really great. But"},{"startTime":2113.779,"endTime":2116.981,"body":"yeah, I think for me, I adore local government. It's"},{"startTime":2117.001,"endTime":2121.263,"body":"a very unique experience and I will absolutely continue"},{"startTime":2121.764,"endTime":2124.986,"body":"in that role. It's a wonderful feeling. You know, I've gone and"},{"startTime":2125.026,"endTime":2128.568,"body":"I've tried other things and I know where I"},{"startTime":2128.588,"endTime":2131.71,"body":"really shine. So I'm super excited that"},{"startTime":2131.77,"endTime":2134.932,"body":"I have learned that about myself and then had that opportunity to come back."},{"startTime":2135.563,"endTime":2138.845,"body":"But with my writing, it's definitely going to be something that"},{"startTime":2139.126,"endTime":2142.568,"body":"I continue. With my second title, I'm actually working"},{"startTime":2142.648,"endTime":2145.851,"body":"with our local suicide prevention network. For"},{"startTime":2145.911,"endTime":2149.634,"body":"me, I just wrote it as a goodbye letter that I needed to"},{"startTime":2149.674,"endTime":2153.416,"body":"hear after we lost my dad and the intention behind"},{"startTime":2153.456,"endTime":2156.944,"body":"that message. really resonated with that group"},{"startTime":2157.004,"endTime":2160.506,"body":"who I'm a part of now and so they want to support"},{"startTime":2160.626,"endTime":2164.008,"body":"bringing that title to life, which is really"},{"startTime":2164.288,"endTime":2167.75,"body":"incredible. In Australia, it's very much a gap in"},{"startTime":2168.051,"endTime":2171.793,"body":"children's literature because it's a very hard topic"},{"startTime":2171.933,"endTime":2175.135,"body":"to talk about, rightly so, and it's very different to"},{"startTime":2175.175,"endTime":2178.577,"body":"Sparkle in terms of the way I have to manage my"},{"startTime":2178.797,"endTime":2181.939,"body":"energy and time spent on it."},{"startTime":2182.95,"endTime":2187.185,"body":"It's yeah, it's definitely a completely different. I"},{"startTime":2189.667,"endTime":2193.07,"body":"These things are often hidden from children and"},{"startTime":2193.47,"endTime":2196.712,"body":"people will say, well, they're too young to"},{"startTime":2196.792,"endTime":2199.975,"body":"understand and that we're"},{"startTime":2199.995,"endTime":2204.118,"body":"going to paint a picture that the world is always lovely"},{"startTime":2204.478,"endTime":2208.701,"body":"and everybody has a lovely time trying to keep children"},{"startTime":2208.761,"endTime":2212.044,"body":"happy. You experienced it as"},{"startTime":2212.104,"endTime":2215.466,"body":"a teenager, but bad things can be experienced by children"},{"startTime":2215.486,"endTime":2218.909,"body":"at any time and also your friend dying of cancer as"},{"startTime":2218.969,"endTime":2222.031,"body":"well, you know, that can happen to really young children. It"},{"startTime":2222.051,"endTime":2225.433,"body":"could be their friends, it can happen around them, it can be their"},{"startTime":2225.453,"endTime":2228.735,"body":"grandparents. These things can happen at any time"},{"startTime":2228.795,"endTime":2233.138,"body":"and if they can be explained nicely and relevantly"},{"startTime":2233.598,"endTime":2237.18,"body":"so it doesn't come as a big surprise and then a scary shot,"},{"startTime":2240.977,"endTime":2244.678,"body":"Absolutely. And even just allowing that space for"},{"startTime":2244.778,"endTime":2248.798,"body":"conversation. So Finley, he's had two"},{"startTime":2249.258,"endTime":2252.519,"body":"losses within his little life. So a little girl in"},{"startTime":2252.559,"endTime":2255.72,"body":"his class actually passed away. And I know,"},{"startTime":2255.78,"endTime":2259.34,"body":"I mean, that was experienced, I think, very differently by the"},{"startTime":2259.36,"endTime":2262.761,"body":"class. There were some that were really, really great friends with her and"},{"startTime":2262.961,"endTime":2266.021,"body":"Finley, they would play together sometimes. She wasn't one of"},{"startTime":2266.081,"endTime":2269.442,"body":"his best, you know, core group of friends, but he absolutely knew"},{"startTime":2269.482,"endTime":2273.036,"body":"who she was. And from the daycare's"},{"startTime":2273.076,"endTime":2276.258,"body":"perspective, they had a lot of parents that said, don't"},{"startTime":2276.298,"endTime":2280.18,"body":"you dare mention this to my child. And so that must"},{"startTime":2280.22,"endTime":2284.262,"body":"have been so hard for them to navigate. I know from my perspective, I"},{"startTime":2284.322,"endTime":2288.444,"body":"wanted to make sure that Finlay found that out from me because"},{"startTime":2288.564,"endTime":2291.966,"body":"there were going to be kids there talking about it because some"},{"startTime":2292.006,"endTime":2296.335,"body":"of her very good friends went to the funeral. So there"},{"startTime":2296.375,"endTime":2299.601,"body":"was going to be discussion. So I wanted to be"},{"startTime":2299.641,"endTime":2302.846,"body":"the one to tell him so that if he had"},{"startTime":2302.926,"endTime":2306.331,"body":"any questions, he could ask them. If he needed to feel"},{"startTime":2307.132,"endTime":2310.537,"body":"his feelings around that, that I was going to be there. for"},{"startTime":2310.577,"endTime":2313.878,"body":"that, at least in that first instance. We've engaged a"},{"startTime":2313.958,"endTime":2317.139,"body":"social worker, and so he's got some ongoing support as"},{"startTime":2317.239,"endTime":2320.5,"body":"well, you know, that was sort of triggered from that experience, which"},{"startTime":2320.54,"endTime":2323.841,"body":"I'm very grateful for, and he's a very expressive kid, so I'm"},{"startTime":2324.121,"endTime":2327.441,"body":"very grateful for that. Being a little boy, I'm very"},{"startTime":2327.521,"endTime":2330.802,"body":"grateful that he's as expressive as he is, and"},{"startTime":2331.242,"endTime":2334.563,"body":"starting to be really good, even more so now at naming his"},{"startTime":2334.763,"endTime":2338.28,"body":"emotions, so super proud of my little dude. But"},{"startTime":2338.34,"endTime":2341.584,"body":"the other really big loss is that in November we lost my"},{"startTime":2341.644,"endTime":2345.369,"body":"mama, so my grandmother, his great-grandmother, and"},{"startTime":2345.429,"endTime":2349.193,"body":"he had been around her several times a week since"},{"startTime":2349.233,"endTime":2352.737,"body":"he was born. He actually got to even provide that care"},{"startTime":2352.817,"endTime":2356.121,"body":"too, so he would be there with my mum or Aunty in some of the days that"},{"startTime":2356.161,"endTime":2359.344,"body":"they had him. And, you know, he'd bring her food or"},{"startTime":2359.384,"endTime":2362.806,"body":"things like that. So he was very involved and so was Esther in"},{"startTime":2362.846,"endTime":2366.409,"body":"that care. And I love that they both got"},{"startTime":2366.489,"endTime":2369.771,"body":"to see that, you know, what it means for"},{"startTime":2369.891,"endTime":2373.494,"body":"us to, to support each other and take care of each other and"},{"startTime":2374.254,"endTime":2377.637,"body":"change our lives around so that we can do that."},{"startTime":2377.957,"endTime":2381.299,"body":"And I think for me, like this woman, she"},{"startTime":2381.379,"endTime":2384.542,"body":"was my second mum. She was there every day of"},{"startTime":2384.602,"endTime":2387.72,"body":"my life and my sister's life growing up. My mum and"},{"startTime":2387.74,"endTime":2391.563,"body":"dad worked. They took care of us. We never went to daycare. And"},{"startTime":2391.603,"endTime":2395.926,"body":"this is going off on tangents, Claire. I'm so sorry. But I"},{"startTime":2395.966,"endTime":2399.409,"body":"was there when she passed, and I was so grateful that"},{"startTime":2399.469,"endTime":2402.611,"body":"I could do that. I didn't think for one minute that"},{"startTime":2402.631,"endTime":2406.114,"body":"would ever happen. You know, you just think it would happen in the middle of the night."},{"startTime":2406.194,"endTime":2409.316,"body":"And, you know, I've got family responsibilities. I wouldn't be able to just leave and"},{"startTime":2409.336,"endTime":2412.759,"body":"go. But she went peacefully, surrounded by"},{"startTime":2412.839,"endTime":2416.391,"body":"all of us, and yet to just be"},{"startTime":2416.431,"endTime":2421.513,"body":"able to be there and support that. I got"},{"startTime":2421.553,"endTime":2425.095,"body":"an even deeper level of appreciation for"},{"startTime":2425.315,"endTime":2428.417,"body":"what it means to care for the people around us"},{"startTime":2428.597,"endTime":2431.938,"body":"and how important that is. A job title"},{"startTime":2431.978,"endTime":2435.26,"body":"doesn't follow us to the grave. It doesn't"},{"startTime":2435.32,"endTime":2439.082,"body":"matter what our business card said. It matters"},{"startTime":2439.542,"endTime":2442.743,"body":"how we made people feel around us. I think"},{"startTime":2442.803,"endTime":2446.233,"body":"that was just an even bigger you know, just"},{"startTime":2446.313,"endTime":2449.874,"body":"confirmation for me that yes, it's so important"},{"startTime":2449.914,"endTime":2453.675,"body":"for me to make sure I'm filling my life with things that bring me joy, but"},{"startTime":2453.695,"endTime":2457.196,"body":"to also make sure that I'm paying attention to what is important. And"},{"startTime":2457.296,"endTime":2460.457,"body":"for me, my family's joy and being present with"},{"startTime":2460.497,"endTime":2464.498,"body":"them is also incredibly important."},{"startTime":2465.458,"endTime":2470.538,"body":"Yeah. Oh, thank you, Jess. Getting"},{"startTime":2473.6,"endTime":2476.923,"body":"I never know where my tangents are going to"},{"startTime":2480.285,"endTime":2483.507,"body":"Yeah. It's really, really important. And it shows, I"},{"startTime":2483.547,"endTime":2487.23,"body":"think it does also illustrate, as we've spoken about your journey"},{"startTime":2487.39,"endTime":2491.192,"body":"with yourself and understanding about what's important"},{"startTime":2491.332,"endTime":2494.635,"body":"and what's good for you. Yeah. Which in"},{"startTime":2497.336,"endTime":2503.076,"body":"Yep. Yep. Reflected in the last page of Sparkle. When"},{"startTime":2505.778,"endTime":2510.943,"body":"Yeah, there we go. Perfect. Okay."},{"startTime":2512.804,"endTime":2515.927,"body":"Before I move on to say, thank you very much. How"},{"startTime":2515.967,"endTime":2519.41,"body":"can we connect with you? Is there anything else we"},{"startTime":2520.471,"endTime":2523.84,"body":"I know, I've gone off on all these. I"},{"startTime":2523.88,"endTime":2527.182,"body":"just appreciate so much, Claire. You're having me on and"},{"startTime":2527.442,"endTime":2530.603,"body":"you're a beautiful interviewer. You have a"},{"startTime":2530.643,"endTime":2534.385,"body":"beautiful way of helping people feel really just calm"},{"startTime":2534.505,"endTime":2537.807,"body":"and able to share what they want to share. So"},{"startTime":2541.52,"endTime":2545.162,"body":"You're very welcome. Thank you. So,"},{"startTime":2545.902,"endTime":2549.184,"body":"let's talk about how people can connect with"},{"startTime":2549.564,"endTime":2552.766,"body":"Well, we've got Mary and I, my wonderful dear friend. We have a"},{"startTime":2552.846,"endTime":2556.207,"body":"joint Instagram for our book. So, it's"},{"startTime":2556.347,"endTime":2559.965,"body":"just at The Mum Who Found Her Sparkle. On"},{"startTime":2560.005,"endTime":2563.226,"body":"that, we share all sorts of things that are going on for both of"},{"startTime":2563.306,"endTime":2566.427,"body":"us because we actually live four hours apart. Yeah, so we've got"},{"startTime":2566.447,"endTime":2569.588,"body":"this beautiful space that we come to together just to share what"},{"startTime":2569.628,"endTime":2573.77,"body":"each is doing and we also run a very fun yearly"},{"startTime":2574.05,"endTime":2578.071,"body":"campaign called Sparkletober in the month formerly named"},{"startTime":2578.692,"endTime":2582.512,"body":"October. And so we welcome anyone"},{"startTime":2582.532,"endTime":2586.094,"body":"and everyone getting involved in that. It's really just people sharing things"},{"startTime":2586.155,"endTime":2589.337,"body":"that bring them joy, bring them their sparkle. And just for"},{"startTime":2589.377,"endTime":2592.839,"body":"me personally, my Instagram is the love and purpose"},{"startTime":2592.919,"endTime":2596.702,"body":"project. I share all sorts of mostly sparkle related"},{"startTime":2596.782,"endTime":2600.104,"body":"things, but also I try to be. On"},{"startTime":2600.144,"endTime":2603.326,"body":"that page, very aware and draw attention of"},{"startTime":2603.366,"endTime":2606.948,"body":"what's happening, happening globally, or even at a local level around"},{"startTime":2607.028,"endTime":2610.551,"body":"gender equity and suicide awareness. contributing, doing"},{"startTime":2610.691,"endTime":2613.973,"body":"my part to raise awareness about what's happening for"},{"startTime":2614.014,"endTime":2617.176,"body":"people. So, yeah, that's right. That's where we are."},{"startTime":2621.539,"endTime":2624.982,"body":"Perfect. Thank you so much, Jess. I've had an absolutely lovely"},{"startTime":2625.442,"endTime":2628.785,"body":"Thank you. Me too. Me too. And how wonderful it's"},{"startTime":2628.805,"endTime":2632.007,"body":"just opposite ends of the day. It's so great that we can"},{"startTime":2635.42,"endTime":2638.925,"body":"Thanks so much for listening to Creativity Found. I hope you enjoyed this"},{"startTime":2639.005,"endTime":2642.55,"body":"episode and gained some value from it. If you did, perhaps"},{"startTime":2642.57,"endTime":2646.715,"body":"you'd like to contribute a small monetary sign of appreciation, either"},{"startTime":2646.775,"endTime":2650.3,"body":"by becoming a regular supporter from as little as $3 per"},{"startTime":2650.34,"endTime":2653.504,"body":"month using the link in the show notes, or if you"},{"startTime":2653.544,"endTime":2656.906,"body":"are listening on a value-for-value enabled app such"},{"startTime":2656.966,"endTime":2660.388,"body":"as Fountain, Truefans or Podverse, feel free to"},{"startTime":2660.428,"endTime":2664.111,"body":"send a few sacks my way. I also occasionally promote"},{"startTime":2664.171,"endTime":2667.293,"body":"products that I personally use, so please use"},{"startTime":2667.313,"endTime":2670.755,"body":"the affiliate link where relevant if you are buying from those fine"}]}