{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":8.192,"endTime":11.455,"body":"Here I was making a lot of money, working really hard, really"},{"startTime":11.495,"endTime":14.837,"body":"long hours. It was very grueling. It was very high pressure environment. And"},{"startTime":14.877,"endTime":18.08,"body":"I was quite miserable on many levels. And I knew that one thing that I needed to"},{"startTime":18.14,"endTime":22.623,"body":"do was find a way to write for myself. If"},{"startTime":22.663,"endTime":25.886,"body":"you're passionate about doing it, about trying, about being creative, and"},{"startTime":25.906,"endTime":29.049,"body":"it doesn't have to be writing, you know, you just owe it to yourself to try. You"},{"startTime":29.069,"endTime":32.231,"body":"really do. And I think while we have to allow ourselves to fail, we"},{"startTime":32.291,"endTime":35.474,"body":"also have to allow ourselves to succeed and to try and embrace that"},{"startTime":35.514,"endTime":38.808,"body":"too. I'm heading into the far side"},{"startTime":38.828,"endTime":42.231,"body":"of my middle 60s, okay? And I find"},{"startTime":42.331,"endTime":46.053,"body":"that this is an age where you can really, really"},{"startTime":46.154,"endTime":49.236,"body":"step into your own power, certainly as a woman and"},{"startTime":49.296,"endTime":52.418,"body":"as a person. It is never too late and you are"},{"startTime":52.498,"endTime":55.801,"body":"never too old to really look beyond the horizons you"},{"startTime":58.462,"endTime":62.083,"body":"Hi, I'm Claire, founder of Creativity Found, a"},{"startTime":62.123,"endTime":66.044,"body":"community for creative learners and educators, connecting adults"},{"startTime":66.184,"endTime":69.325,"body":"who want to find a creative outlet with the artists and"},{"startTime":69.365,"endTime":72.906,"body":"crafters who can help them do so with workshops, courses,"},{"startTime":73.406,"endTime":76.687,"body":"online events and kits. For this podcast, I"},{"startTime":76.747,"endTime":80.529,"body":"chat with people who have found or re-found their creativity"},{"startTime":80.769,"endTime":84.531,"body":"as adults. We'll explore their childhood experiences of"},{"startTime":84.571,"endTime":88.295,"body":"the arts, discuss how they came to the artistic practices they"},{"startTime":88.335,"endTime":92.178,"body":"now love, and consider the barriers they may have experienced between"},{"startTime":92.218,"endTime":95.621,"body":"the two. We'll also explore what it is that people"},{"startTime":95.701,"endTime":100.065,"body":"value and gain from their newfound artistic pursuits, and"},{"startTime":100.145,"endTime":103.828,"body":"how their creative lives enrich their practical, necessary,"},{"startTime":104.269,"endTime":107.805,"body":"everyday lives. This time I'm chatting with"},{"startTime":107.965,"endTime":111.506,"body":"Amy L. Bernstein about transitioning from corporate"},{"startTime":111.546,"endTime":115.828,"body":"communications to communicating in a more personally creative"},{"startTime":116.008,"endTime":119.289,"body":"way. Hi Amy, how are you? I'm"},{"startTime":119.389,"endTime":123.11,"body":"fine, hi Claire. Thanks so much for having me on. You're very welcome."},{"startTime":123.31,"endTime":126.992,"body":"Start by telling me how you currently express"},{"startTime":128.512,"endTime":131.894,"body":"I have really taken the last few years to lean"},{"startTime":131.994,"endTime":136.756,"body":"into finding all kinds of ways to express myself creatively mainly"},{"startTime":136.856,"endTime":140.52,"body":"through writing but also through teaching writing courses. So"},{"startTime":140.621,"endTime":144.064,"body":"I'm writing fiction and non-fiction and a newsletter on"},{"startTime":144.225,"endTime":148.61,"body":"Substack and I post videos on TikTok and"},{"startTime":148.71,"endTime":152.194,"body":"I love teaching courses about the craft of writing. So I'd"},{"startTime":156.095,"endTime":160.138,"body":"Brilliant. We will hear lots more about all of that. Were"},{"startTime":160.198,"endTime":164.081,"body":"your childhood experiences of being"},{"startTime":164.141,"endTime":167.324,"body":"creative, were they positive? Were they encouraged? And what"},{"startTime":169.005,"endTime":173.008,"body":"I don't remember being especially encouraged. I"},{"startTime":173.048,"endTime":176.491,"body":"know that my father was extremely practically minded."},{"startTime":176.551,"endTime":179.713,"body":"I think he thought that all us kids should really get business degrees. He was"},{"startTime":179.733,"endTime":182.976,"body":"just so worried about us being able to go out in the world and make a living. Of course,"},{"startTime":183.016,"endTime":187.839,"body":"then I became an English major and had trouble finding a job. I"},{"startTime":187.879,"endTime":191.161,"body":"did write when I was very little. I think my mom"},{"startTime":191.221,"endTime":194.943,"body":"had a kind of a hidden creative streak that she didn't really activate."},{"startTime":195.944,"endTime":199.726,"body":"I wouldn't say that my household was overly encouraging"},{"startTime":199.966,"endTime":203.389,"body":"about nudging us toward the arts. They weren't discouraging, but"},{"startTime":206.09,"endTime":210.272,"body":"Was the English major a kind of in-betweeny,"},{"startTime":214.514,"endTime":218.056,"body":"I came out of college in the late 1970s, and at"},{"startTime":218.116,"endTime":221.157,"body":"that time, majoring in English literature was an"},{"startTime":221.217,"endTime":224.479,"body":"extremely common thing to do. I will say"},{"startTime":224.599,"endTime":227.98,"body":"especially for females, but I"},{"startTime":228.08,"endTime":231.382,"body":"loved it because I had a passion for reading, for analysing text,"},{"startTime":231.842,"endTime":235.023,"body":"I loved to write, although I wasn't writing a lot at that time outside of"},{"startTime":235.063,"endTime":238.405,"body":"college papers. I didn't just do it as a default. I"},{"startTime":238.425,"endTime":241.706,"body":"did it because I really loved it. That was a time when"},{"startTime":241.746,"endTime":245.367,"body":"we just didn't think so much about connecting college to"},{"startTime":245.487,"endTime":248.648,"body":"career as much. Now, there's such a tight link and you're"},{"startTime":248.668,"endTime":251.95,"body":"supposed to really think twice about what courses you take because"},{"startTime":251.99,"endTime":255.131,"body":"how are you going to make a living. But back then, it"},{"startTime":258.494,"endTime":261.955,"body":"With that in mind, you've mentioned your dad and"},{"startTime":261.995,"endTime":265.495,"body":"the idea of being a practical, responsible person"},{"startTime":265.555,"endTime":268.916,"body":"in society. How did that play"},{"startTime":269.076,"endTime":272.196,"body":"out for you leaving university and"},{"startTime":272.216,"endTime":275.817,"body":"then going into the world of work? Was there something that you"},{"startTime":275.857,"endTime":279.138,"body":"wanted to do, or were you winging it, or"},{"startTime":280.478,"endTime":283.838,"body":"Yeah, well, you're touching on something that's really very deep for me. I'm old"},{"startTime":283.878,"endTime":287.908,"body":"enough now that I can look back a little bit objectively and reflect on choices"},{"startTime":287.948,"endTime":291.292,"body":"I made in my 20s and why I made them. First of all, I did need"},{"startTime":291.332,"endTime":294.576,"body":"to earn my own living. My parents were not going to support me after college and so that"},{"startTime":294.616,"endTime":297.96,"body":"was a necessity. I found"},{"startTime":298.04,"endTime":301.924,"body":"work as a low-paid editorial assistant on a boring insurance magazine"},{"startTime":302.144,"endTime":306.128,"body":"and made my way to being a writer on a bit more respectable"},{"startTime":306.208,"endTime":309.449,"body":"computer magazine, but I always needed to"},{"startTime":309.53,"endTime":312.831,"body":"find that really steady paycheck. And when"},{"startTime":312.871,"endTime":316.372,"body":"I look back now and realize that I took these flights into"},{"startTime":316.492,"endTime":319.753,"body":"doing freelance articles and freelance writing because that other"},{"startTime":319.793,"endTime":323.014,"body":"side of me was clamoring for more freedom to just write"},{"startTime":323.054,"endTime":326.616,"body":"what I wanted to write, and I barely recognized it at the time, and that"},{"startTime":326.656,"endTime":330.83,"body":"was not lucrative. So I was always on the the"},{"startTime":330.89,"endTime":334.494,"body":"push and the pull of wanting to follow my heart's desire, which"},{"startTime":334.534,"endTime":337.837,"body":"was never going to pay me very much or enough to live on with needing to kind of"},{"startTime":338.457,"endTime":341.66,"body":"earn that paycheck that was going to pay their rent and put food on the table for"},{"startTime":341.7,"endTime":345.003,"body":"myself. So that was an ongoing conflict. And I will say,"},{"startTime":345.083,"endTime":348.166,"body":"ironically, it culminated all the way into my"},{"startTime":348.506,"endTime":352.65,"body":"50s when I was working in communications and I was extremely well-paid."},{"startTime":353.235,"endTime":357.256,"body":"And ironically, the more money I made, the more miserable I was. So there"},{"startTime":358.296,"endTime":364.298,"body":"Yeah. So was it a cutthroat environment,"},{"startTime":364.518,"endTime":368.259,"body":"the way you were working? Were you out there getting"},{"startTime":372.538,"endTime":375.74,"body":"No, I mean, I still remember getting turned down for"},{"startTime":375.78,"endTime":379.041,"body":"jobs I really, really wanted. And who knows why that"},{"startTime":379.081,"endTime":383.484,"body":"happens, right? You're never going to know. So it was always difficult,"},{"startTime":383.924,"endTime":387.105,"body":"very competitive. And I always did well at"},{"startTime":387.145,"endTime":390.527,"body":"my jobs, but you're always in competitive environments. And I think when"},{"startTime":390.567,"endTime":393.849,"body":"your core skill is writing, the business world at"},{"startTime":393.909,"endTime":397.13,"body":"large, the corporate world at large, and even the nonprofit world, and"},{"startTime":397.19,"endTime":400.432,"body":"even the government world, it's not that highly valued. There"},{"startTime":400.472,"endTime":405.308,"body":"aren't that many people out there who really understand how"},{"startTime":405.968,"endTime":409.671,"body":"everybody thinks everybody can write, which isn't true. So,"},{"startTime":409.891,"endTime":413.653,"body":"you know, when you're hired, whether it's to be a speechwriter or communications director"},{"startTime":413.834,"endTime":417.716,"body":"or all these other things that I've done, or as a journalist, which are around writing, the"},{"startTime":417.756,"endTime":421.419,"body":"journalism folks understand that it's a skill set, but everybody else"},{"startTime":421.479,"endTime":424.721,"body":"in all the other walks are like, oh yeah, you know, you can write. I mean, everybody can"},{"startTime":427.785,"endTime":431.248,"body":"Yeah, so where did you learn? Was that all from the"},{"startTime":431.348,"endTime":434.691,"body":"degree? Were you learning each time you did a new job?"},{"startTime":435.312,"endTime":438.715,"body":"I think a lot of this kind of thing is just one's innate skill set."},{"startTime":438.795,"endTime":441.938,"body":"I mean, there are people who grew up and they're really good with numbers and I don't think"},{"startTime":441.978,"endTime":445.381,"body":"it's that they necessarily learned that. It's the way their brains are wired."},{"startTime":445.641,"endTime":448.884,"body":"My brain is not wired for mathematics in any way,"},{"startTime":448.944,"endTime":452.568,"body":"shape or form, but it is absolutely, I'm just hardwired to"},{"startTime":452.628,"endTime":456.011,"body":"make sense of text. I used to joke"},{"startTime":456.071,"endTime":459.273,"body":"that people who can look at a spreadsheet and tell a"},{"startTime":459.333,"endTime":462.774,"body":"story about the numbers, all I'm seeing is a sea of numbers, but"},{"startTime":462.814,"endTime":466.957,"body":"you can show me a couple pages of text and I can very rapidly figure"},{"startTime":467.017,"endTime":470.238,"body":"out what's being said, whether it's being said in the right way. I can just"},{"startTime":470.398,"endTime":473.94,"body":"do that quickly. Then of course, there's the 10,000 hours of practice. I've"},{"startTime":473.96,"endTime":477.082,"body":"written so much and in so many different forms that you"},{"startTime":483.596,"endTime":488.139,"body":"It's been so varied for me. I mean, I had a job writing"},{"startTime":488.239,"endTime":491.502,"body":"for a consulting firm, helping to sort of describe and market what"},{"startTime":491.542,"endTime":494.744,"body":"they did and writing up conference stuff. I was a print"},{"startTime":494.784,"endTime":498.427,"body":"journalist with a business newspaper. I freelanced in public radio"},{"startTime":498.487,"endTime":502.15,"body":"for National Public Radio. I was an executive speech writer in Washington, D.C."},{"startTime":503.19,"endTime":506.411,"body":"I was a communications director also in government, working on a"},{"startTime":506.471,"endTime":510.172,"body":"lot of complex technical information that I was rendering into very"},{"startTime":510.272,"endTime":513.732,"body":"clear, plain English for the public nationally. So I've"},{"startTime":513.812,"endTime":517.773,"body":"really kind of done a little bit of almost everything."},{"startTime":518.093,"endTime":521.394,"body":"And, you know, that's continued on into fiction and"},{"startTime":525.375,"endTime":528.557,"body":"Well, let's talk about that then. Fiction and playwriting, because you"},{"startTime":528.597,"endTime":532.0,"body":"did mention at the beginning about writing what you wanted to"},{"startTime":532.06,"endTime":535.402,"body":"write rather than writing what is"},{"startTime":535.482,"endTime":538.864,"body":"very useful and required as well to communicate a"},{"startTime":538.924,"endTime":542.767,"body":"point that other people want to communicate. Was there"},{"startTime":543.327,"endTime":547.31,"body":"a inkling throughout this career journey"},{"startTime":547.39,"endTime":550.632,"body":"that you wanted to do a bit more of the other type of"},{"startTime":550.672,"endTime":555.035,"body":"writing or was there a pivotal moment when"},{"startTime":557.657,"endTime":561.099,"body":"Yes, let me just say that I think that my experience is really"},{"startTime":561.259,"endTime":564.721,"body":"applicable for anybody maybe in midlife or approaching midlife"},{"startTime":564.761,"endTime":568.224,"body":"and they feel like they're just not getting enough from life and they have these creative"},{"startTime":568.324,"endTime":571.926,"body":"urges and they don't know what to do with them. And you really need"},{"startTime":571.966,"endTime":575.248,"body":"to let yourself grow in those directions. It's so"},{"startTime":575.329,"endTime":579.151,"body":"important, I think, for your well-being as a human being. So,"},{"startTime":579.231,"endTime":582.914,"body":"you know, in my 50s, here I was making a lot of money, working really"},{"startTime":582.954,"endTime":586.576,"body":"hard, really long hours. It was very grueling. It was a very high-pressure environment."},{"startTime":586.837,"endTime":590.099,"body":"And I was quite miserable on many levels. And I knew that one thing that I needed"},{"startTime":590.139,"endTime":594.001,"body":"to do was find a way to write for myself and"},{"startTime":594.041,"endTime":598.062,"body":"not just for the government, the big bad beast. So,"},{"startTime":599.042,"endTime":602.723,"body":"on my commuter train, I basically wrote my first novel"},{"startTime":602.823,"endTime":606.204,"body":"just to prove to myself that I could do it. I self-published it. It wasn't"},{"startTime":606.244,"endTime":609.625,"body":"a big deal and it definitely is not my best writing, but it was"},{"startTime":609.645,"endTime":613.386,"body":"a credible effort. I realized, okay, I"},{"startTime":613.506,"endTime":617.318,"body":"have to do more of this. And I fell into playwriting. I"},{"startTime":617.358,"endTime":620.422,"body":"don't know exactly why, but I did and found a"},{"startTime":620.482,"endTime":623.928,"body":"wonderful local group of playwrights and I started learning from them and teaching"},{"startTime":623.948,"endTime":627.293,"body":"myself and reading plays and learning how to write plays and having some plays."},{"startTime":627.834,"endTime":631.197,"body":"in some place produced and that was wonderful. Then I pivoted back"},{"startTime":631.257,"endTime":634.48,"body":"to fiction knowing that I had more novels in me that I just"},{"startTime":634.581,"endTime":637.884,"body":"had to write. It's difficult. It's not easy to"},{"startTime":637.944,"endTime":642.288,"body":"do. I have never looked back or regretted for one moment pushing"},{"startTime":642.328,"endTime":645.731,"body":"myself because taking creative risks is one of the"},{"startTime":645.851,"endTime":649.154,"body":"best things that you can do for your mental health, especially I think as"},{"startTime":649.215,"endTime":653.43,"body":"an adult settled into life. So did you feel risky"},{"startTime":653.79,"endTime":657.334,"body":"then? Absolutely. Not only did I step back"},{"startTime":657.414,"endTime":660.577,"body":"from paid work, left a couple of different jobs over"},{"startTime":660.597,"endTime":664.081,"body":"a couple of different years, needed my husband to essentially support"},{"startTime":664.121,"endTime":668.065,"body":"me, and I realise not everyone has that, but you know, there were discussions. And"},{"startTime":668.145,"endTime":671.448,"body":"I had moments of flat out panic. What have I done? I've stepped"},{"startTime":671.488,"endTime":674.693,"body":"away from all the things I know I'm good at. and I want to try all"},{"startTime":674.733,"endTime":678.834,"body":"these things where I don't really know. It absolutely"},{"startTime":678.914,"endTime":682.155,"body":"is scary. The thing is though, if you're passionate about"},{"startTime":682.235,"endTime":685.616,"body":"doing it, about trying, about being creative, and it doesn't have to be writing, you"},{"startTime":685.816,"endTime":688.917,"body":"just owe it to yourself to try. You really do. I think while we have"},{"startTime":688.957,"endTime":692.438,"body":"to allow ourselves to fail, we also have to allow ourselves to succeed"},{"startTime":694.973,"endTime":698.375,"body":"Yeah, wow, that's very brave. Like"},{"startTime":698.415,"endTime":702.096,"body":"you say, it's risky and I think it's brave on"},{"startTime":702.136,"endTime":705.898,"body":"a practical, everyday life level but also"},{"startTime":706.238,"endTime":709.64,"body":"on an emotional and a mental level because"},{"startTime":709.68,"endTime":712.841,"body":"you don't know what's going to happen and you don't know if"},{"startTime":713.161,"endTime":716.915,"body":"you're actually going to like it or not. You said about fiction, you"},{"startTime":716.935,"endTime":720.737,"body":"said about plays, I think you've even spoken to me in the past about poetry."},{"startTime":721.277,"endTime":725.199,"body":"Where is it all coming from? Where does the inspiration"},{"startTime":728.04,"endTime":731.562,"body":"Mills And I'm also a working book coach, so I'm helping other authors on"},{"startTime":731.582,"endTime":734.643,"body":"their journey. That's incredibly rewarding. Incredibly rewarding to"},{"startTime":734.683,"endTime":737.925,"body":"watch other people help them wrestle with their text and with their vision and"},{"startTime":738.265,"endTime":741.778,"body":"their passion. I think, for me, it's a combination of"},{"startTime":741.899,"endTime":745.239,"body":"what story do I want to tell, what's the form I feel I"},{"startTime":745.279,"endTime":748.36,"body":"need to tell that story in, and what's my inspiration. For me, the"},{"startTime":748.4,"endTime":752.04,"body":"poetry absolutely comes and goes. I do not have a regular poetry"},{"startTime":752.06,"endTime":755.481,"body":"writing practice. I went through a year, year and a half, where I wrote a tremendous amount"},{"startTime":755.521,"endTime":759.482,"body":"of poetry. I've had a number of poems published and was in an anthology,"},{"startTime":759.882,"endTime":763.082,"body":"but the poetry has its own seasons and"},{"startTime":763.122,"endTime":766.343,"body":"reasons that I don't even mess with. It's there when it's there, and"},{"startTime":766.383,"endTime":769.751,"body":"it's not there when it's not there. But with fiction, if you're going to write a novel,"},{"startTime":769.791,"endTime":773.313,"body":"you really have to put a sustained effort into that. I have a non-fiction book"},{"startTime":773.353,"endTime":776.715,"body":"coming out this fall, which I'm also really excited about. Those"},{"startTime":776.735,"endTime":780.817,"body":"are the things where you really have to find a sustained practice to make that work happen."},{"startTime":781.417,"endTime":784.959,"body":"I stopped writing theater when the pandemic hit because it's very hard to get produced anyway,"},{"startTime":788.021,"endTime":791.424,"body":"With the theatre pre-pandemic, and you said some of them were produced,"},{"startTime":791.625,"endTime":795.088,"body":"how involved were you with that? Because that's another creative"},{"startTime":795.188,"endTime":798.751,"body":"arm in itself, actually, getting a play from paper onto"},{"startTime":799.99,"endTime":803.253,"body":"Yes, so theater is an incredibly collaborative medium. So"},{"startTime":803.313,"endTime":806.436,"body":"for the most part, with exceptions, the playwright is"},{"startTime":806.516,"endTime":810.059,"body":"not working in a vacuum, right? You write the play and that's between"},{"startTime":810.099,"endTime":813.582,"body":"you and the page, but after that you need collaborators to"},{"startTime":813.622,"endTime":816.945,"body":"make that thing come alive, right? And so it is a very,"},{"startTime":817.045,"endTime":820.307,"body":"very exciting process to be in the room when a play is being read"},{"startTime":820.668,"endTime":823.931,"body":"or put up on its feet on stage and you're watching a director do"},{"startTime":823.951,"endTime":827.155,"body":"the work that they do. It's a very exciting experience. It's"},{"startTime":827.195,"endTime":830.278,"body":"also extraordinarily nerve-wracking because everything is happening in"},{"startTime":830.339,"endTime":833.542,"body":"real time. And probably the biggest play that"},{"startTime":833.603,"endTime":836.907,"body":"I had put on took place where we seated the audience on"},{"startTime":836.987,"endTime":840.271,"body":"stage with us. It was a very experimental Dada kind of piece. We didn't know"},{"startTime":840.311,"endTime":843.554,"body":"if this was going to work. And so people were very puzzled, like, why I'm"},{"startTime":843.594,"endTime":846.756,"body":"in the audience? Why am I coming up on stage? You're going to ring the players? This is how"},{"startTime":846.776,"endTime":849.958,"body":"we're doing it. So, you know, there's a lot that's terrifying. Will"},{"startTime":850.138,"endTime":853.381,"body":"an actor get sick? Will they not show up? Will they forget their lines? Will they just"},{"startTime":853.521,"endTime":856.763,"body":"turn in a bad performance? Will people be able to hear? I mean, it's nerve"},{"startTime":856.783,"endTime":860.045,"body":"wracking. And the wonderful thing about writing long form fiction is really, it's"},{"startTime":860.065,"endTime":863.368,"body":"just you and the screen. And then you can go through your publishing hassles. But the point"},{"startTime":863.408,"endTime":866.652,"body":"is that It's a lone creative endeavor where you're in control of"},{"startTime":866.772,"endTime":870.013,"body":"all of it up until you're not, you know, if you get into the hands of a publisher or"},{"startTime":873.674,"endTime":877.056,"body":"I once heard a children's author speaking. She"},{"startTime":877.096,"endTime":880.757,"body":"was very good about it. And it wasn't about writing a play. It was her fiction."},{"startTime":881.597,"endTime":884.718,"body":"and it was How to Train Your Dragon, and the dragon that"},{"startTime":884.938,"endTime":888.659,"body":"Cressida Cowell had created didn't fly."},{"startTime":889.56,"endTime":892.701,"body":"She was very open about the fact that she would just have to"},{"startTime":892.761,"endTime":896.082,"body":"go with whatever the film people said, and she didn't mind that."},{"startTime":896.262,"endTime":899.723,"body":"I know other people might get a bit precious about how somebody"},{"startTime":899.803,"endTime":903.024,"body":"interprets what you've written, or"},{"startTime":903.184,"endTime":906.405,"body":"in that case, that was quite a big change. Did you have any"},{"startTime":909.62,"endTime":913.062,"body":"Well, first of all, you know, with that author that you cite, I am nowhere near on"},{"startTime":913.222,"endTime":916.304,"body":"that level. I mean, no one has yet come calling for the film rights to one of"},{"startTime":916.344,"endTime":922.828,"body":"my books, but they're, they're welcome to do so. I think"},{"startTime":922.868,"endTime":926.21,"body":"my books are cinematic. Um, you know, well, here's the thing, this,"},{"startTime":926.29,"endTime":929.432,"body":"this happens, whether you're writing a fiction as in a book, or"},{"startTime":929.452,"endTime":933.154,"body":"you're writing a play at some point, somebody else's"},{"startTime":933.274,"endTime":937.742,"body":"hands are going to get onto your stuff. In fiction,"},{"startTime":937.862,"endTime":942.045,"body":"you might have an editor who really wants a lot of changes, a"},{"startTime":942.085,"endTime":945.448,"body":"developmental editor who really needs you to go through changes. That"},{"startTime":945.488,"endTime":948.57,"body":"can happen on that level. Then you have to negotiate. How do"},{"startTime":948.59,"endTime":951.793,"body":"you stick to your vision and what you really intended with the editor telling you this"},{"startTime":951.853,"endTime":955.095,"body":"is not coming across or you can do this better? You have to work through"},{"startTime":955.135,"endTime":958.478,"body":"that. Certainly, when you're working with a director in a theater"},{"startTime":958.518,"endTime":961.601,"body":"environment, the director has their own vision of"},{"startTime":961.681,"endTime":965.013,"body":"your work. And again, it really is a negotiation and"},{"startTime":965.033,"endTime":968.654,"body":"a collaboration. And very often, I mean, I find that directors find wonderful"},{"startTime":968.674,"endTime":971.775,"body":"things in your work that you didn't quite see yourself and they bring that out"},{"startTime":975.376,"endTime":979.796,"body":"Two way. Brilliant. Tell me about the coaching."},{"startTime":979.937,"endTime":983.677,"body":"Are you coaching all sorts of writers? What"},{"startTime":986.238,"endTime":990.019,"body":"I'm an accredited book coach through a program called Author Accelerator, which"},{"startTime":990.079,"endTime":993.406,"body":"is an absolutely wonderful, rigorous program. for acquiring some"},{"startTime":993.466,"endTime":996.688,"body":"tools. and ways of working with authors to"},{"startTime":996.748,"endTime":1000.289,"body":"help them get their own work done. You're an accountability partner. You're"},{"startTime":1000.309,"endTime":1003.45,"body":"working with authors on structure, helping them identify who the reader is,"},{"startTime":1003.53,"endTime":1006.951,"body":"what their own why is for what they're writing. Now, I specialize in"},{"startTime":1006.991,"endTime":1010.732,"body":"creative nonfiction, which includes almost any nonfiction"},{"startTime":1010.792,"endTime":1014.193,"body":"topic, and also I have a few memoir clients. I'm not coaching"},{"startTime":1014.233,"endTime":1017.895,"body":"fiction because as a fiction writer, I didn't want to muddy"},{"startTime":1017.935,"endTime":1021.256,"body":"the waters there, but many, many book coaches are working with fiction"},{"startTime":1021.276,"endTime":1024.818,"body":"authors as well. And it is an absolute joy"},{"startTime":1024.938,"endTime":1028.181,"body":"to watch my clients really come from, in some"},{"startTime":1028.221,"endTime":1031.503,"body":"cases, a bare idea stage through to really"},{"startTime":1031.563,"endTime":1035.066,"body":"having a credible book outline, book proposal, sample chapters, which"},{"startTime":1035.126,"endTime":1039.049,"body":"is how it works in the nonfiction side, at least in the US. It's"},{"startTime":1039.089,"endTime":1042.332,"body":"just a joy to watch them sort of step into their own"},{"startTime":1042.932,"endTime":1046.013,"body":"vision and knowledge and figure out what they really have to say and"},{"startTime":1046.073,"endTime":1049.513,"body":"who they're writing for. It can be an arduous and slow process, but"},{"startTime":1053.414,"endTime":1057.035,"body":"Yeah, I can imagine that is very supportive."},{"startTime":1057.275,"endTime":1060.456,"body":"Like a lot of creative roles, they can be"},{"startTime":1060.496,"endTime":1064.017,"body":"quite lonely and isolating, can't they, when you're"},{"startTime":1064.637,"endTime":1068.157,"body":"there creating something? And certainly when"},{"startTime":1068.337,"endTime":1071.458,"body":"I edit books, Not"},{"startTime":1071.478,"endTime":1074.78,"body":"from a lonely point of view, but it definitely needs a second eye. When"},{"startTime":1074.82,"endTime":1078.402,"body":"I've gone through a whole editing process, I will always have somebody else"},{"startTime":1078.722,"endTime":1082.204,"body":"to do the proofread because I get to a point of, I can't see"},{"startTime":1082.504,"endTime":1085.905,"body":"things. Not necessarily grammatical things, but actual"},{"startTime":1085.965,"endTime":1089.147,"body":"structural things or whatever. So it's really good for somebody else"},{"startTime":1092.249,"endTime":1095.73,"body":"Mills Absolutely. One of the hardest things"},{"startTime":1095.79,"endTime":1099.423,"body":"for writers any artist really, but writers certainly."},{"startTime":1099.483,"endTime":1102.564,"body":"I mean, you know, we're a sensitive prickly bunch and writing is"},{"startTime":1102.604,"endTime":1106.585,"body":"a very vulnerable activity and it's really, really hard to"},{"startTime":1106.785,"endTime":1109.946,"body":"hear, really hear somebody else's feedback and take that"},{"startTime":1110.027,"endTime":1113.668,"body":"on board. It's hard to do. Listen, I struggle"},{"startTime":1113.708,"endTime":1117.149,"body":"with it as a writer, even though as a book coach, I'm as sensitive as"},{"startTime":1117.229,"endTime":1120.71,"body":"I can be to others in making suggestions about, you"},{"startTime":1120.73,"endTime":1123.911,"body":"know, I think this is not organized the way, you know, it's going to serve you"},{"startTime":1123.971,"endTime":1127.344,"body":"and you're really trying to help them do better. it's a tough thing and we really"},{"startTime":1127.384,"endTime":1130.81,"body":"have to bring a lot of sensitivity to it when we're giving"},{"startTime":1131.011,"endTime":1134.256,"body":"feedback and hope that people treat us the same way."},{"startTime":1134.276,"endTime":1138.483,"body":"Yeah, I can imagine it's a very personal experience"},{"startTime":1138.543,"endTime":1142.277,"body":"for the writer. At the beginning, you talked about always"},{"startTime":1142.357,"endTime":1145.979,"body":"wanting to write, and we've talked about writing what"},{"startTime":1146.079,"endTime":1150.042,"body":"you want to write. Do you feel that by doing"},{"startTime":1150.142,"endTime":1154.204,"body":"that now, you have extra"},{"startTime":1154.384,"endTime":1157.906,"body":"benefits that affect other"},{"startTime":1157.966,"endTime":1161.648,"body":"parts of your life that you may"},{"startTime":1165.191,"endTime":1168.532,"body":"That is a really interesting question, and I think"},{"startTime":1168.592,"endTime":1172.161,"body":"that the answer is a combination of"},{"startTime":1172.221,"endTime":1175.903,"body":"the risks I've chosen to take combined"},{"startTime":1176.023,"endTime":1179.504,"body":"with the aging process. Because"},{"startTime":1179.604,"endTime":1183.106,"body":"I find I'm heading into the far side"},{"startTime":1183.126,"endTime":1186.527,"body":"of my middle 60s, okay? And I find"},{"startTime":1186.627,"endTime":1190.349,"body":"that this is an age where you can really, really"},{"startTime":1190.429,"endTime":1193.53,"body":"step into your own power, certainly as a woman and"},{"startTime":1193.59,"endTime":1196.952,"body":"as a person. And basically, you really can own"},{"startTime":1197.761,"endTime":1201.042,"body":"who you are, what you're good at, own the risks that you're willing to"},{"startTime":1201.103,"endTime":1204.364,"body":"take and really try and make things work, and not be quite so"},{"startTime":1204.404,"endTime":1208.106,"body":"worried about what everyone thinks every step of the way, to"},{"startTime":1208.306,"endTime":1211.527,"body":"be able to basically own your mistakes and move on and not be floored by"},{"startTime":1211.567,"endTime":1214.708,"body":"them, and basically to have the"},{"startTime":1214.749,"endTime":1218.321,"body":"self-confidence to really be who"},{"startTime":1218.381,"endTime":1221.623,"body":"you know you were meant to be and really want to be. Really, really"},{"startTime":1221.783,"endTime":1225.445,"body":"own your identity. Really just fully come into your identity. That's"},{"startTime":1225.505,"endTime":1229.427,"body":"taken me a whole lifetime. And other"},{"startTime":1229.447,"endTime":1232.669,"body":"people get there. I have a daughter who's about 31 and I feel"},{"startTime":1232.689,"endTime":1235.871,"body":"like she's getting there or has gotten there very quickly and"},{"startTime":1235.911,"endTime":1239.512,"body":"I'm in awe of it. But it's taken me a long time, partly"},{"startTime":1239.553,"endTime":1242.814,"body":"because I think too, you know, coming of age when things were somewhat"},{"startTime":1242.854,"endTime":1246.032,"body":"different for women still. So I think that is a combination for"},{"startTime":1246.072,"endTime":1249.293,"body":"me of, I absolutely, if when I look back at over the last, say,"},{"startTime":1249.414,"endTime":1252.955,"body":"five, six, seven years, eight years maybe, on"},{"startTime":1252.975,"endTime":1256.437,"body":"the one hand, I can be astonished at what I've accomplished. I would not have guessed that"},{"startTime":1256.457,"endTime":1259.959,"body":"I would have done all these things. So I'm really pleased"},{"startTime":1259.999,"endTime":1263.06,"body":"about that. And then I say to myself, well, that's fine. We're not done. We're going to"},{"startTime":1263.101,"endTime":1266.442,"body":"do more. And that feels very exciting. But I really"},{"startTime":1266.542,"endTime":1269.664,"body":"also think that I wasn't ready to do those things until I was ready to do"},{"startTime":1269.724,"endTime":1273.191,"body":"those things. And for me, that's come a bit later in life. And again,"},{"startTime":1273.231,"endTime":1276.473,"body":"that gets back to anyone who listens to this, do"},{"startTime":1276.553,"endTime":1280.997,"body":"not be afraid to make those pivots. You might be 40, 45, 50, 55, 60. It"},{"startTime":1281.117,"endTime":1284.339,"body":"is never too late and you are never too old"},{"startTime":1284.819,"endTime":1288.622,"body":"to really look beyond the horizons you think that are set for yourself and"},{"startTime":1291.665,"endTime":1295.247,"body":"Very nicely summarized of the whole creativity found ethos there,"},{"startTime":1295.327,"endTime":1300.261,"body":"Amy. Thank you. I've lived it. Yeah,"},{"startTime":1300.521,"endTime":1304.142,"body":"that's brilliant. It sounds like with writing, with"},{"startTime":1304.242,"endTime":1307.483,"body":"coaching, you perhaps have"},{"startTime":1307.823,"endTime":1311.344,"body":"quite a lot on your plate now. Do you feel that? Do you cope"},{"startTime":1311.484,"endTime":1315.105,"body":"with it easily? Are things balanced daily?"},{"startTime":1315.285,"endTime":1318.646,"body":"Yeah, I do have a lot on my plate and I will tell you that"},{"startTime":1318.686,"endTime":1322.69,"body":"I'm in a situation now where first of all, I'm very fortunate"},{"startTime":1322.85,"endTime":1325.994,"body":"that, I mean I am happily married so I have a husband in the"},{"startTime":1326.014,"endTime":1329.659,"body":"house, but most of my time is my own. So I"},{"startTime":1329.739,"endTime":1333.104,"body":"can organize my hours for the most part as I need to"},{"startTime":1333.264,"endTime":1336.548,"body":"and as I wish to. But I will tell you I have put myself"},{"startTime":1336.609,"endTime":1340.012,"body":"in a situation where I'm working at least"},{"startTime":1340.192,"endTime":1343.433,"body":"part of every weekend, like chunk of Saturday and or"},{"startTime":1343.653,"endTime":1346.854,"body":"a chunk of Sunday in addition to Monday through Friday. And so"},{"startTime":1347.174,"endTime":1350.635,"body":"you could say, gosh, you know, am I overextended? And"},{"startTime":1350.655,"endTime":1354.196,"body":"I think it's just that I've taken on enough things"},{"startTime":1354.236,"endTime":1357.857,"body":"that are filling out a lot of the time to get them done. That's"},{"startTime":1357.937,"endTime":1361.118,"body":"my own doing. If I don't want to live that way, I can cut"},{"startTime":1361.178,"endTime":1364.539,"body":"something out. But right now there's nothing I want to cut out. So"},{"startTime":1364.779,"endTime":1367.86,"body":"I've made that choice and I'm OK with it and I"},{"startTime":1367.9,"endTime":1371.023,"body":"can I can manage it. until I can't. I have to"},{"startTime":1371.104,"endTime":1374.647,"body":"work really hard at downtime and taking extended breaks and"},{"startTime":1374.687,"endTime":1378.452,"body":"getting off the computer, but I'm working on that. Honestly,"},{"startTime":1379.132,"endTime":1382.576,"body":"I'd rather be too busy than not busy enough because"},{"startTime":1382.616,"endTime":1385.76,"body":"it tells me that I'm engaged. I'm really engaged and I'm"},{"startTime":1385.78,"endTime":1388.903,"body":"really putting things out there. I'd rather be on that side of"},{"startTime":1391.776,"endTime":1394.999,"body":"Speaking of time and"},{"startTime":1395.059,"endTime":1399.403,"body":"doing things, what about the future? Do you have specific"},{"startTime":1403.246,"endTime":1406.449,"body":"Write more books. Have people buy my"},{"startTime":1406.509,"endTime":1410.673,"body":"books. For"},{"startTime":1410.713,"endTime":1414.196,"body":"me, it's just continuing to be a little more high profile."},{"startTime":1414.723,"endTime":1417.784,"body":"which again, I'm only going to do that in ways that are sort of"},{"startTime":1417.924,"endTime":1421.105,"body":"real. I'm not going to be buying bots to"},{"startTime":1421.145,"endTime":1424.386,"body":"troll social media and get me likes or something like"},{"startTime":1424.426,"endTime":1427.927,"body":"that. I just mean real engagement. I love speaking in public."},{"startTime":1428.027,"endTime":1431.888,"body":"I'm toying with the idea of trying to do a TEDx talk. There's"},{"startTime":1431.908,"endTime":1435.089,"body":"a new goal that I can set for myself. If I can get it done, I can"},{"startTime":1435.109,"endTime":1439.431,"body":"say, wow, I climbed another mountain. Isn't that great? Things"},{"startTime":1439.451,"endTime":1443.998,"body":"of that nature. I have this book coming out in the fall and I'm really hoping to do a"},{"startTime":1444.058,"endTime":1448.44,"body":"fair amount of activity around that. That's a big goal for me. What's"},{"startTime":1448.48,"endTime":1452.522,"body":"that book? It's called Wrangling the Doubt Monster, Fighting"},{"startTime":1452.602,"endTime":1456.944,"body":"Fears, Finding Inspiration. It is"},{"startTime":1457.104,"endTime":1460.626,"body":"a beautifully illustrated little book that every"},{"startTime":1460.686,"endTime":1464.088,"body":"creative person should just keep by their side and"},{"startTime":1464.128,"endTime":1467.853,"body":"dip into It's not a how-to. It is a book of inspiration."},{"startTime":1468.273,"endTime":1472.334,"body":"It's easy to read in little bits and bobs. It's"},{"startTime":1472.374,"endTime":1475.855,"body":"not like a commitment that you're reading your friend's 450-page novel."},{"startTime":1476.556,"endTime":1479.657,"body":"It's also the kind of book that I think people are really going to want to give as a"},{"startTime":1479.717,"endTime":1483.258,"body":"gift because it is a gift to give a creative person"},{"startTime":1483.278,"endTime":1486.579,"body":"a source of inspiration and validation. That's really"},{"startTime":1488.599,"endTime":1492.334,"body":"Oh, that's so lovely. Okay, with"},{"startTime":1492.554,"endTime":1496.54,"body":"that in mind as well, we'll keep an eye out for the"},{"startTime":1496.8,"endTime":1500.125,"body":"publication date of that. In the meantime, how"},{"startTime":1502.243,"endTime":1505.484,"body":"Well, people can find my books, some"},{"startTime":1505.504,"endTime":1508.866,"body":"of the teaching that I do. They can learn more about Wrangling the Doubt Monster. They"},{"startTime":1508.886,"endTime":1512.707,"body":"can learn about my Substack newsletter. Doubt Monster, everything"},{"startTime":1512.747,"endTime":1516.609,"body":"is on my website, which is amywrights.live. It's"},{"startTime":1516.649,"endTime":1520.45,"body":"just A-M-Y-W-R-I-T-E-S dot"},{"startTime":1532.423,"endTime":1535.965,"body":"Thanks so much for listening to Creativity Found. If your podcast"},{"startTime":1536.085,"endTime":1539.526,"body":"app has the facility, please leave a rating and review to"},{"startTime":1539.566,"endTime":1543.208,"body":"help other people find us. On Instagram and Facebook,"},{"startTime":1543.288,"endTime":1546.47,"body":"follow at Creativity Found Podcast and"},{"startTime":1546.55,"endTime":1550.329,"body":"on Pinterest, look for at Creativity Found. And"},{"startTime":1550.429,"endTime":1555.312,"body":"finally, don't forget to check out creativityfound.co.uk, the"},{"startTime":1555.352,"endTime":1559.175,"body":"website connecting adults who want to find a creative outlet with"},{"startTime":1559.215,"endTime":1562.597,"body":"the artists and crafters who can help them tap into their"}]}