{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":8.4,"endTime":11.857,"body":"The fact I didn't go to like"},{"startTime":8.4,"endTime":11.857,"body":"traditional university and I didn't"},{"startTime":11.881,"endTime":14.569,"body":"follow a traditional path"},{"startTime":11.881,"endTime":14.569,"body":"necessarily in that way because I"},{"startTime":14.577,"endTime":17.665,"body":"went to community college"},{"startTime":14.577,"endTime":17.665,"body":"instead. That in itself was a big"},{"startTime":17.705,"endTime":22.497,"body":"deal to my friends and family."},{"startTime":17.705,"endTime":22.497,"body":"And so going to art school would"},{"startTime":22.521,"endTime":28.173,"body":"have been like an even bigger"},{"startTime":22.521,"endTime":28.173,"body":"jump than that. So he was the one"},{"startTime":28.229,"endTime":31.981,"body":"that told me about a one day"},{"startTime":28.229,"endTime":31.981,"body":"workshop about graphic facilitation"},{"startTime":32.053,"endTime":35.573,"body":"and I had no idea what that"},{"startTime":32.053,"endTime":35.573,"body":"was. I took that one day workshop"},{"startTime":35.629,"endTime":39.765,"body":"and totally changed my life."},{"startTime":35.629,"endTime":39.765,"body":"When people say, oh, I could never"},{"startTime":39.805,"endTime":42.909,"body":"do that and I'm like, well, I"},{"startTime":39.805,"endTime":42.909,"body":"didn't know how to draw but people"},{"startTime":42.957,"endTime":46.381,"body":"don't believe me and I'm like,"},{"startTime":42.957,"endTime":46.381,"body":"no, I really didn't. Like I really"},{"startTime":46.413,"endTime":51.037,"body":"had to start. So you almost"},{"startTime":46.413,"endTime":51.037,"body":"want to embrace the messiness and"},{"startTime":51.061,"endTime":55.653,"body":"the ugliness of drawings when"},{"startTime":51.061,"endTime":55.653,"body":"you're starting and there's a lot"},{"startTime":55.669,"endTime":56.625,"body":"of vulnerability."},{"startTime":57.685,"endTime":62.161,"body":"Hi, I'm Claire, founder of"},{"startTime":57.685,"endTime":62.161,"body":"Creativity Found a community for"},{"startTime":62.193,"endTime":65.817,"body":"creative learners and"},{"startTime":62.193,"endTime":65.817,"body":"educators connecting adults who want"},{"startTime":65.841,"endTime":69.497,"body":"to find a creative outlet with"},{"startTime":65.841,"endTime":69.497,"body":"the artists and crafters who can"},{"startTime":69.521,"endTime":73.537,"body":"help them do so with"},{"startTime":69.521,"endTime":73.537,"body":"workshops, courses, online events"},{"startTime":73.601,"endTime":78.049,"body":"and kits. For this podcast, I"},{"startTime":73.601,"endTime":78.049,"body":"chat with people who have found or"},{"startTime":78.097,"endTime":82.977,"body":"refound their creativity as"},{"startTime":78.097,"endTime":82.977,"body":"adults. We'll explore their childhood"},{"startTime":83.041,"endTime":86.793,"body":"experiences of the arts,"},{"startTime":83.041,"endTime":86.793,"body":"discuss how they came to the artistic"},{"startTime":86.849,"endTime":90.541,"body":"practices they now love, and"},{"startTime":86.849,"endTime":90.541,"body":"consider the barriers they may have"},{"startTime":90.573,"endTime":94.565,"body":"experienced between the two."},{"startTime":90.573,"endTime":94.565,"body":"We'll also explore what it is that"},{"startTime":94.605,"endTime":98.665,"body":"people value and gain from"},{"startTime":94.605,"endTime":98.665,"body":"their newfound artistic pursuits"},{"startTime":98.965,"endTime":103.357,"body":"and how their creative lives"},{"startTime":98.965,"endTime":103.357,"body":"enrich their practical, necessary,"},{"startTime":103.501,"endTime":109.545,"body":"everyday lives. This time I'm"},{"startTime":103.501,"endTime":109.545,"body":"speaking with Ashton Rodenhiser."},{"startTime":110.285,"endTime":112.093,"body":"Hi Ashton, how are you?"},{"startTime":112.269,"endTime":114.677,"body":"I'm doing so well. How are you"},{"startTime":112.269,"endTime":114.677,"body":"doing, Claire?"},{"startTime":114.741,"endTime":120.247,"body":"I'm very good, thank you. Tell"},{"startTime":114.741,"endTime":120.247,"body":"me first of all how you like to get"},{"startTime":120.311,"endTime":121.199,"body":"creative."},{"startTime":121.367,"endTime":126.335,"body":"Yeah, so I am a doodler at"},{"startTime":121.367,"endTime":126.335,"body":"heart, really passionate about doodling"},{"startTime":126.495,"endTime":130.823,"body":"and usually that's how I love"},{"startTime":126.495,"endTime":130.823,"body":"to start. It's a very like non threatening"},{"startTime":130.999,"endTime":136.039,"body":"way to be creative and I get"},{"startTime":130.999,"endTime":136.039,"body":"to do it for a living. So it's a."},{"startTime":136.087,"endTime":136.911,"body":"It's a good time."},{"startTime":136.983,"endTime":141.911,"body":"Yeah, brilliant. We will hear"},{"startTime":136.983,"endTime":141.911,"body":"more about all of that. What were"},{"startTime":141.943,"endTime":146.275,"body":"your creative experiences like"},{"startTime":141.943,"endTime":146.275,"body":"as a youngster at home and in education?"},{"startTime":146.945,"endTime":154.001,"body":"Yeah, so I consider myself a"},{"startTime":146.945,"endTime":154.001,"body":"bit of a dabbler. So I've tried many"},{"startTime":154.073,"endTime":161.561,"body":"things, sometimes for a day, a"},{"startTime":154.073,"endTime":161.561,"body":"week, a month, a year. But I really"},{"startTime":161.593,"endTime":165.321,"body":"love jumping around to a lot"},{"startTime":161.593,"endTime":165.321,"body":"of different things and very self"},{"startTime":165.393,"endTime":169.241,"body":"taught. I was like cross"},{"startTime":165.393,"endTime":169.241,"body":"stitching when I was 10. I got really"},{"startTime":169.273,"endTime":173.681,"body":"into knitting when I was a"},{"startTime":169.273,"endTime":173.681,"body":"teenager and felting and the only"},{"startTime":173.713,"endTime":177.963,"body":"thing that I have like any"},{"startTime":173.713,"endTime":177.963,"body":"sort of formal lessons or education"},{"startTime":178.059,"endTime":182.459,"body":"on is music. Different"},{"startTime":178.059,"endTime":182.459,"body":"Instruments and things. But I've"},{"startTime":182.547,"endTime":187.291,"body":"always really loved just sort"},{"startTime":182.547,"endTime":187.291,"body":"of exploring different mediums and"},{"startTime":187.323,"endTime":191.275,"body":"seeing sort of what I like"},{"startTime":187.323,"endTime":191.275,"body":"about it at the time and giving myself"},{"startTime":191.355,"endTime":195.467,"body":"permission to move on from it"},{"startTime":191.355,"endTime":195.467,"body":"if it was something that wasn't really,"},{"startTime":195.531,"endTime":198.187,"body":"you know, bringing me joy"},{"startTime":195.531,"endTime":198.187,"body":"anymore, if I wanted to try something"},{"startTime":198.251,"endTime":199.251,"body":"new or different."},{"startTime":199.403,"endTime":202.923,"body":"Yeah, perfect. Moving on and"},{"startTime":199.403,"endTime":202.923,"body":"trying something else. It's something"},{"startTime":202.979,"endTime":207.185,"body":"we talk about quite a bit."},{"startTime":202.979,"endTime":207.185,"body":"Usually when you get a bit grown"},{"startTime":207.225,"endTime":209.617,"body":"up and you think, I should try"},{"startTime":207.225,"endTime":209.617,"body":"something and then I should stick"},{"startTime":209.641,"endTime":210.325,"body":"with it."},{"startTime":210.825,"endTime":214.321,"body":"Yeah, yeah. Well, a few years"},{"startTime":210.825,"endTime":214.321,"body":"back, I sort of learned about this"},{"startTime":214.393,"endTime":218.945,"body":"idea of, like, the sunk cost"},{"startTime":214.393,"endTime":218.945,"body":"bias. And that's kind of when you"},{"startTime":219.105,"endTime":222.009,"body":"start doing something and then"},{"startTime":219.105,"endTime":222.009,"body":"you kind of have to convince yourself"},{"startTime":222.057,"endTime":224.929,"body":"to keep doing it because"},{"startTime":222.057,"endTime":224.929,"body":"you've done it. You've invested a"},{"startTime":224.937,"endTime":227.433,"body":"lot of time, energy, and"},{"startTime":224.937,"endTime":227.433,"body":"money. The example I always give"},{"startTime":227.449,"endTime":230.073,"body":"is, like, people who go to"},{"startTime":227.449,"endTime":230.073,"body":"university and they drop out when"},{"startTime":230.089,"endTime":234.033,"body":"they're like, 90% done"},{"startTime":230.089,"endTime":234.033,"body":"instead. You know, that's kind of"},{"startTime":234.049,"endTime":237.193,"body":"going against the sun cost"},{"startTime":234.049,"endTime":237.193,"body":"bias because most people think, well,"},{"startTime":237.209,"endTime":239.529,"body":"it's only 10%, just finish it,"},{"startTime":237.209,"endTime":239.529,"body":"but you could have, like, done a"},{"startTime":239.537,"endTime":242.785,"body":"whole bunch of other stuff in"},{"startTime":239.537,"endTime":242.785,"body":"that 10% of time, like, and find"},{"startTime":242.825,"endTime":246.945,"body":"what you really wanted to do"},{"startTime":242.825,"endTime":246.945,"body":"instead. So, yeah, we. We tend to"},{"startTime":246.985,"endTime":249.881,"body":"kind of shame ourselves if"},{"startTime":246.985,"endTime":249.881,"body":"we're like, oh, well, we started"},{"startTime":249.953,"endTime":254.457,"body":"down this path, we might as"},{"startTime":249.953,"endTime":254.457,"body":"well continue. And yeah, when I kind"},{"startTime":254.481,"endTime":257.729,"body":"of learned about that bias, I"},{"startTime":254.481,"endTime":257.729,"body":"was like, okay, good. It's a good"},{"startTime":257.777,"endTime":260.521,"body":"permission to give yourself."},{"startTime":257.777,"endTime":260.521,"body":"And maybe it means you got, like,"},{"startTime":260.553,"endTime":264.383,"body":"a closet full of supplies that"},{"startTime":260.553,"endTime":264.383,"body":"you're never going to use and you"},{"startTime":264.399,"endTime":267.355,"body":"can give away to somebody"},{"startTime":264.399,"endTime":267.355,"body":"someday. And, like, that's okay."},{"startTime":268.055,"endTime":271.791,"body":"Yeah, sometimes we kind of"},{"startTime":268.055,"endTime":271.791,"body":"shame ourselves into, you know, we"},{"startTime":271.823,"endTime":275.199,"body":"started down a path and just"},{"startTime":271.823,"endTime":275.199,"body":"because we, you know, invested a"},{"startTime":275.207,"endTime":277.751,"body":"lot into it that we feel like"},{"startTime":275.207,"endTime":277.751,"body":"we need to stick with it. And that's"},{"startTime":277.783,"endTime":278.535,"body":"not the case."},{"startTime":278.655,"endTime":282.679,"body":"Yeah, yeah, yeah, perfect."},{"startTime":278.655,"endTime":282.679,"body":"Speaking of a path, when you were"},{"startTime":282.727,"endTime":287.207,"body":"going through education, did"},{"startTime":282.727,"endTime":287.207,"body":"you excel at something? Did you have"},{"startTime":287.231,"endTime":291.487,"body":"a particular way that you were"},{"startTime":287.231,"endTime":291.487,"body":"directing yourself for a future career?"},{"startTime":291.551,"endTime":293.747,"body":"How did that kind of pan out?"},{"startTime":293.931,"endTime":298.227,"body":"Yeah, so I think I have a bit"},{"startTime":293.931,"endTime":298.227,"body":"of a very, like, untraditional path."},{"startTime":298.291,"endTime":302.667,"body":"I got good grades. I did the"},{"startTime":298.291,"endTime":302.667,"body":"thing. I probably could have got"},{"startTime":302.691,"endTime":305.563,"body":"into lots of different"},{"startTime":302.691,"endTime":305.563,"body":"universities, but I just didn't know"},{"startTime":305.579,"endTime":309.987,"body":"what I wanted to do. I really"},{"startTime":305.579,"endTime":309.987,"body":"felt a lot of pressure trying to"},{"startTime":310.011,"endTime":313.931,"body":"figure out what I want to be"},{"startTime":310.011,"endTime":313.931,"body":"for the rest of my life. And the"},{"startTime":313.963,"endTime":320.363,"body":"only thing that I really"},{"startTime":313.963,"endTime":320.363,"body":"wanted to be was a mother. So I sort"},{"startTime":320.379,"endTime":324.159,"body":"of headed down a path of early"},{"startTime":320.379,"endTime":324.159,"body":"childhood education because I figured."},{"startTime":324.187,"endTime":327.319,"body":"Figured it would be a"},{"startTime":324.187,"endTime":327.319,"body":"transferable skill. So when I became"},{"startTime":327.367,"endTime":331.655,"body":"a mom that I would be like,"},{"startTime":327.367,"endTime":331.655,"body":"oh, like I know kids and how to raise"},{"startTime":331.695,"endTime":334.447,"body":"them, quote unquote, properly,"},{"startTime":331.695,"endTime":334.447,"body":"which is such a joke. And that's"},{"startTime":334.471,"endTime":338.031,"body":"a whole other side tangent."},{"startTime":334.471,"endTime":338.031,"body":"But you're almost like your own worst"},{"startTime":338.063,"endTime":342.671,"body":"enemy because you know better."},{"startTime":338.063,"endTime":342.671,"body":"But yeah, so I, I think secretly,"},{"startTime":342.743,"endTime":348.311,"body":"like looking back now, I could"},{"startTime":342.743,"endTime":348.311,"body":"have. Would have pursued something"},{"startTime":348.423,"endTime":352.271,"body":"creative, but it was just, I'm"},{"startTime":348.423,"endTime":352.271,"body":"sure, like lots of the listeners"},{"startTime":352.343,"endTime":358.737,"body":"here, it just was not a path"},{"startTime":352.343,"endTime":358.737,"body":"that was even an option because there"},{"startTime":358.761,"endTime":363.441,"body":"was just so much negative"},{"startTime":358.761,"endTime":363.441,"body":"rhetoric in my family, my community,"},{"startTime":363.513,"endTime":367.017,"body":"of those kids that go to art"},{"startTime":363.513,"endTime":367.017,"body":"school and they don't have jobs,"},{"startTime":367.121,"endTime":372.177,"body":"you know, so I really sort of"},{"startTime":367.121,"endTime":372.177,"body":"fell into that. Unfortunately, the"},{"startTime":372.201,"endTime":375.657,"body":"fact I didn't go to like"},{"startTime":372.201,"endTime":375.657,"body":"traditional university and I didn't"},{"startTime":375.681,"endTime":378.369,"body":"follow a traditional path"},{"startTime":375.681,"endTime":378.369,"body":"necessarily in that way because I"},{"startTime":378.377,"endTime":381.445,"body":"went to community college"},{"startTime":378.377,"endTime":381.445,"body":"instead. That and it's was a big"},{"startTime":381.485,"endTime":386.301,"body":"deal to my friends and family."},{"startTime":381.485,"endTime":386.301,"body":"And so going to art school would"},{"startTime":386.333,"endTime":388.941,"body":"have been like an even bigger"},{"startTime":386.333,"endTime":388.941,"body":"jump than that."},{"startTime":389.093,"endTime":389.785,"body":"So."},{"startTime":390.445,"endTime":393.709,"body":"Yeah. So unfortunately, like,"},{"startTime":390.445,"endTime":393.709,"body":"I wish I would have listened to that"},{"startTime":393.757,"endTime":397.549,"body":"little voice in the back of my"},{"startTime":393.757,"endTime":397.549,"body":"mind saying, like, you could go and"},{"startTime":397.597,"endTime":402.677,"body":"pursue something creative, you"},{"startTime":397.597,"endTime":402.677,"body":"know, a formal education setting."},{"startTime":402.741,"endTime":406.997,"body":"But it just. I let those"},{"startTime":402.741,"endTime":406.997,"body":"voices kind of get the better of"},{"startTime":407.021,"endTime":410.265,"body":"me and the stories that people"},{"startTime":407.021,"endTime":410.265,"body":"told around me."},{"startTime":410.565,"endTime":413.693,"body":"Yeah, yeah, I completely"},{"startTime":410.565,"endTime":413.693,"body":"understand. It happens a lot. And"},{"startTime":413.709,"endTime":417.389,"body":"it's a very. There's a lot"},{"startTime":413.709,"endTime":417.389,"body":"going on at that time anyway to be"},{"startTime":417.437,"endTime":419.745,"body":"making decisions for their life."},{"startTime":420.525,"endTime":423.325,"body":"It is absolutely. You know,"},{"startTime":420.525,"endTime":423.325,"body":"and I. My kids aren't quite that"},{"startTime":423.365,"endTime":427.413,"body":"age yet. They're still pretty"},{"startTime":423.365,"endTime":427.413,"body":"little. But you know, there we put"},{"startTime":427.469,"endTime":430.637,"body":"so much pressure and I think,"},{"startTime":427.469,"endTime":430.637,"body":"I don't know if this stat is true,"},{"startTime":430.701,"endTime":434.965,"body":"but I heard at some point that"},{"startTime":430.701,"endTime":434.965,"body":"people have on average like seven"},{"startTime":435.045,"endTime":438.957,"body":"careers in their lifetime. So"},{"startTime":435.045,"endTime":438.957,"body":"asking children, what do you want"},{"startTime":438.981,"endTime":441.561,"body":"to be when you grow up? Is"},{"startTime":438.981,"endTime":441.561,"body":"kind of a joke. You should be like,"},{"startTime":441.593,"endTime":445.849,"body":"what seven things do you think"},{"startTime":441.593,"endTime":445.849,"body":"you might want to do in exchange"},{"startTime":445.897,"endTime":448.993,"body":"for money? Yeah. So I get a"},{"startTime":445.897,"endTime":448.993,"body":"little like triggered when people"},{"startTime":449.049,"endTime":452.377,"body":"ask my kids that question."},{"startTime":449.049,"endTime":452.377,"body":"They're fine. They don't need to"},{"startTime":452.401,"endTime":453.601,"body":"have this figured out."},{"startTime":453.713,"endTime":457.033,"body":"Yeah. And don't grow them up"},{"startTime":453.713,"endTime":457.033,"body":"too soon as well."},{"startTime":457.209,"endTime":458.769,"body":"Yeah, yeah."},{"startTime":458.897,"endTime":462.401,"body":"With education then, did that"},{"startTime":458.897,"endTime":462.401,"body":"mean you went on to be a teacher"},{"startTime":462.433,"endTime":465.073,"body":"or work in schools? What did"},{"startTime":462.433,"endTime":465.073,"body":"you do?"},{"startTime":465.249,"endTime":469.193,"body":"Yeah, so the program I took"},{"startTime":465.249,"endTime":469.193,"body":"was a two year program. And I remember"},{"startTime":469.369,"endTime":472.513,"body":"a lot of people leave that"},{"startTime":469.369,"endTime":472.513,"body":"program and work in childcare. And"},{"startTime":472.529,"endTime":475.593,"body":"I remember being there on my,"},{"startTime":472.529,"endTime":475.593,"body":"literally my last day of school and"},{"startTime":475.609,"endTime":478.753,"body":"being like, I don't want to"},{"startTime":475.609,"endTime":478.753,"body":"work in a childcare setting. I don't"},{"startTime":478.769,"endTime":482.985,"body":"know what I just did. I just"},{"startTime":478.769,"endTime":482.985,"body":"wasted two years of my life because"},{"startTime":483.025,"endTime":487.441,"body":"I just wasn't a fan of sort of"},{"startTime":483.025,"endTime":487.441,"body":"like how the childcare settings were"},{"startTime":487.473,"endTime":491.025,"body":"sort of set up and didn't have"},{"startTime":487.473,"endTime":491.025,"body":"like the greatest experiences unfortunately"},{"startTime":491.065,"endTime":494.353,"body":"and the ones that I had to go"},{"startTime":491.065,"endTime":494.353,"body":"and do practicum, you know, time"},{"startTime":494.409,"endTime":500.033,"body":"in. And so I moved to the"},{"startTime":494.409,"endTime":500.033,"body":"city. I was in the, it was in the"},{"startTime":500.089,"endTime":504.317,"body":"country. And I moved to the"},{"startTime":500.089,"endTime":504.317,"body":"this city because I had a desire"},{"startTime":504.381,"endTime":509.677,"body":"of maybe going and doing sign"},{"startTime":504.381,"endTime":509.677,"body":"language interpretation. So I was"},{"startTime":509.701,"endTime":512.045,"body":"like, well, I need a job, I"},{"startTime":509.701,"endTime":512.045,"body":"have no money, I'm eating oatmeal"},{"startTime":512.085,"endTime":515.885,"body":"every day. So I went and you"},{"startTime":512.085,"endTime":515.885,"body":"know, started applying to different"},{"startTime":515.925,"endTime":518.701,"body":"places and I ended up getting"},{"startTime":515.925,"endTime":518.701,"body":"a short term position that ended"},{"startTime":518.733,"endTime":523.149,"body":"up lasting four years at a"},{"startTime":518.733,"endTime":523.149,"body":"nonprofit family resource center."},{"startTime":523.237,"endTime":527.277,"body":"So the way that they're set"},{"startTime":523.237,"endTime":527.277,"body":"up, at least where here I am in Canada,"},{"startTime":527.461,"endTime":531.671,"body":"it's programming for parents"},{"startTime":527.461,"endTime":531.671,"body":"and children, like playgroups and"},{"startTime":531.703,"endTime":536.431,"body":"parenting programs and"},{"startTime":531.703,"endTime":536.431,"body":"prenatal supports and there was like"},{"startTime":536.463,"endTime":540.991,"body":"a small food bank kind of"},{"startTime":536.463,"endTime":540.991,"body":"attached to it. And the first two"},{"startTime":541.023,"endTime":544.831,"body":"years I was there I worked in"},{"startTime":541.023,"endTime":544.831,"body":"child development. So like working"},{"startTime":544.863,"endTime":548.175,"body":"with the kids mostly in my"},{"startTime":544.863,"endTime":548.175,"body":"last two years I was there I transitioned"},{"startTime":548.215,"endTime":553.911,"body":"into family support worker. So"},{"startTime":548.215,"endTime":553.911,"body":"I did more facilitation and working"},{"startTime":553.943,"endTime":557.983,"body":"with parents. And that's where"},{"startTime":553.943,"endTime":557.983,"body":"I was sort of like entered into really"},{"startTime":558.039,"endTime":563.637,"body":"this beginning of facilitation"},{"startTime":558.039,"endTime":563.637,"body":"and really loving how as a facilitator"},{"startTime":563.701,"endTime":567.525,"body":"you're not the expert"},{"startTime":563.701,"endTime":567.525,"body":"necessarily, you're not like a teacher"},{"startTime":567.565,"endTime":570.709,"body":"where you're like, here's a"},{"startTime":567.565,"endTime":570.709,"body":"bunch of information I'm going to"},{"startTime":570.757,"endTime":574.293,"body":"tell you that you will learn."},{"startTime":570.757,"endTime":574.293,"body":"As a facilitator it's really about"},{"startTime":574.429,"endTime":580.157,"body":"asking questions, pulling"},{"startTime":574.429,"endTime":580.157,"body":"folks own wisdom out and showcasing"},{"startTime":580.221,"endTime":584.281,"body":"it to them and trusting they"},{"startTime":580.221,"endTime":584.281,"body":"already have the answers right. So"},{"startTime":584.413,"endTime":587.993,"body":"really loved the opportunity"},{"startTime":584.413,"endTime":587.993,"body":"to be introduced into that world."},{"startTime":588.049,"endTime":591.473,"body":"Now I did take sign language"},{"startTime":588.049,"endTime":591.473,"body":"night classes. I didn't end up doing"},{"startTime":591.529,"endTime":595.193,"body":"interpretation, but I did do"},{"startTime":591.529,"endTime":595.193,"body":"all the prerequisites to get into"},{"startTime":595.249,"endTime":599.921,"body":"it. But I decided that after I"},{"startTime":595.249,"endTime":599.921,"body":"really started into the world of"},{"startTime":599.953,"endTime":602.641,"body":"facilitation, that that was"},{"startTime":599.953,"endTime":602.641,"body":"something that I wanted to pursue"},{"startTime":602.713,"endTime":605.993,"body":"more of. And the only reason"},{"startTime":602.713,"endTime":605.993,"body":"why I left that job was because I"},{"startTime":606.009,"endTime":609.241,"body":"wanted to move back to the"},{"startTime":606.009,"endTime":609.241,"body":"country. Four years in the city was"},{"startTime":609.273,"endTime":612.441,"body":"enough for me. I wanted to"},{"startTime":609.273,"endTime":612.441,"body":"move back to the country and it didn't"},{"startTime":612.473,"endTime":615.065,"body":"make sense for me to drive to"},{"startTime":612.473,"endTime":615.065,"body":"the city every day. So I just started"},{"startTime":615.105,"endTime":618.357,"body":"seeking out opportun for"},{"startTime":615.105,"endTime":618.357,"body":"facilitation and ended up doing like"},{"startTime":618.381,"endTime":621.701,"body":"a lot of volunteer work and"},{"startTime":618.381,"endTime":621.701,"body":"meeting other facilitators in my"},{"startTime":621.773,"endTime":624.825,"body":"very small community. It's not"},{"startTime":621.773,"endTime":624.825,"body":"very many of us, so."},{"startTime":625.125,"endTime":630.125,"body":"Yeah, but you were able to"},{"startTime":625.125,"endTime":630.125,"body":"find things to do there in that field"},{"startTime":630.165,"endTime":634.797,"body":"or were you sharing that field"},{"startTime":630.165,"endTime":634.797,"body":"with having to do other things job"},{"startTime":634.861,"endTime":635.389,"body":"wise?"},{"startTime":635.517,"endTime":638.309,"body":"Yeah, I kind of did a little"},{"startTime":635.517,"endTime":638.309,"body":"bit. I did a little bit of childcare."},{"startTime":638.357,"endTime":641.605,"body":"I kind of was like a roaming"},{"startTime":638.357,"endTime":641.605,"body":"childcare person. I go to different"},{"startTime":641.645,"endTime":644.797,"body":"people's houses and it was"},{"startTime":641.645,"endTime":644.797,"body":"actually really lovely. I did work"},{"startTime":644.821,"endTime":647.797,"body":"in a childcare setting for"},{"startTime":644.821,"endTime":647.797,"body":"like six months and then I say they"},{"startTime":647.821,"endTime":651.657,"body":"broke. It was. It was not a"},{"startTime":647.821,"endTime":651.657,"body":"great experience. And then I ended"},{"startTime":651.681,"endTime":654.625,"body":"up kind of working with other"},{"startTime":651.681,"endTime":654.625,"body":"families and things, which was really"},{"startTime":654.665,"endTime":658.057,"body":"great. And in my volunteer"},{"startTime":654.665,"endTime":658.057,"body":"work kind of introduced me into different"},{"startTime":658.121,"endTime":661.393,"body":"opportunities. And a"},{"startTime":658.121,"endTime":661.393,"body":"facilitator friend, he was the one"},{"startTime":661.449,"endTime":665.241,"body":"that told me about a one day"},{"startTime":661.449,"endTime":665.241,"body":"workshop about graphic facilitation"},{"startTime":665.313,"endTime":668.833,"body":"and I had no idea what that"},{"startTime":665.313,"endTime":668.833,"body":"was. I took that one day workshop"},{"startTime":668.889,"endTime":673.085,"body":"and totally changed my life."},{"startTime":668.889,"endTime":673.085,"body":"And that was back in late 2013."},{"startTime":673.955,"endTime":678.475,"body":"Brilliant. So tell us then,"},{"startTime":673.955,"endTime":678.475,"body":"what does that mean? What did the"},{"startTime":678.515,"endTime":680.395,"body":"course actually involve?"},{"startTime":680.555,"endTime":683.875,"body":"Oh, my gosh. The course in"},{"startTime":680.555,"endTime":683.875,"body":"itself, you know, it's really about"},{"startTime":683.915,"endTime":687.899,"body":"like, here's how you draw,"},{"startTime":683.915,"endTime":687.899,"body":"like glorified stick people. It was"},{"startTime":687.947,"endTime":691.251,"body":"very rudimentary. It was"},{"startTime":687.947,"endTime":691.251,"body":"actually called Graphic Fundamentals"},{"startTime":691.443,"endTime":695.979,"body":"and really about how to take"},{"startTime":691.443,"endTime":695.979,"body":"facilitation skills and match them"},{"startTime":696.027,"endTime":699.371,"body":"with visual skills. So it's"},{"startTime":696.027,"endTime":699.371,"body":"really about the listening and the"},{"startTime":699.403,"endTime":704.105,"body":"thinking that you already have"},{"startTime":699.403,"endTime":704.105,"body":"as a facilitator and adding visuals"},{"startTime":704.145,"endTime":708.241,"body":"into the mix to help people,"},{"startTime":704.145,"endTime":708.241,"body":"you know, see their own words, not"},{"startTime":708.273,"endTime":712.481,"body":"just feed it back to them in"},{"startTime":708.273,"endTime":712.481,"body":"words, but now they can see what"},{"startTime":712.513,"endTime":716.009,"body":"it is that they just shared"},{"startTime":712.513,"endTime":716.009,"body":"and connect with it on a different"},{"startTime":716.057,"endTime":719.801,"body":"level. And because most people"},{"startTime":716.057,"endTime":719.801,"body":"think in pictures and they like to"},{"startTime":719.833,"endTime":722.793,"body":"learn through pictures, it"},{"startTime":719.833,"endTime":722.793,"body":"resonates with a lot of people in"},{"startTime":722.809,"endTime":726.505,"body":"the room. I really felt like"},{"startTime":722.809,"endTime":726.505,"body":"it was this beautiful coming together"},{"startTime":726.585,"endTime":730.573,"body":"of this facilitation world"},{"startTime":726.585,"endTime":730.573,"body":"that I really love working with people,"},{"startTime":730.709,"endTime":736.225,"body":"helping people find their"},{"startTime":730.709,"endTime":736.225,"body":"voice and communicate their own ideas."},{"startTime":736.525,"endTime":742.197,"body":"That sort of world, plus the"},{"startTime":736.525,"endTime":742.197,"body":"artsy world that I, you know, like"},{"startTime":742.221,"endTime":745.421,"body":"I said, sort of secretly"},{"startTime":742.221,"endTime":745.421,"body":"thought, oh, maybe I could pursue"},{"startTime":745.453,"endTime":749.357,"body":"this art thing at some point."},{"startTime":745.453,"endTime":749.357,"body":"I don't know, like. And it was really"},{"startTime":749.381,"endTime":753.407,"body":"a beautiful blend between the"},{"startTime":749.381,"endTime":753.407,"body":"two because it was like a conduit,"},{"startTime":753.471,"endTime":757.183,"body":"like an opportunity to be"},{"startTime":753.471,"endTime":757.183,"body":"like, hey, you can be creative in"},{"startTime":757.239,"endTime":761.199,"body":"this way. You can still help"},{"startTime":757.239,"endTime":761.199,"body":"people in this way and connect to"},{"startTime":761.247,"endTime":765.015,"body":"information and help people"},{"startTime":761.247,"endTime":765.015,"body":"communicate while also adding this"},{"startTime":765.095,"endTime":769.559,"body":"whole, like, creative lens to"},{"startTime":765.095,"endTime":769.559,"body":"it. So at that point, I really started"},{"startTime":769.607,"endTime":772.635,"body":"playing around with it for"},{"startTime":769.607,"endTime":772.635,"body":"about a year or so and then decided"},{"startTime":772.935,"endTime":777.567,"body":"that I was going to leave"},{"startTime":772.935,"endTime":777.567,"body":"facilitation because I really wanted"},{"startTime":777.591,"endTime":780.135,"body":"to learn how to do this"},{"startTime":777.591,"endTime":780.135,"body":"graphic facilitation really, really"},{"startTime":780.175,"endTime":782.967,"body":"well. So I decided if I want"},{"startTime":780.175,"endTime":782.967,"body":"to learn how to do it really well,"},{"startTime":782.991,"endTime":787.139,"body":"I'm going to have to really"},{"startTime":782.991,"endTime":787.139,"body":"sink my teeth in and do it properly."},{"startTime":787.307,"endTime":790.251,"body":"Yeah. That was over 10 years"},{"startTime":787.307,"endTime":790.251,"body":"ago now, which is pretty wild to"},{"startTime":790.283,"endTime":791.215,"body":"say. Yeah."},{"startTime":791.515,"endTime":796.483,"body":"In listening to your story and"},{"startTime":791.515,"endTime":796.483,"body":"I had. We hadn't spoken about the"},{"startTime":796.499,"endTime":800.979,"body":"sign language before, but it's"},{"startTime":796.499,"endTime":800.979,"body":"the same thing. You're communicating"},{"startTime":801.067,"endTime":803.547,"body":"words with pictures, and if"},{"startTime":801.067,"endTime":803.547,"body":"you're doing the sign language, you'll"},{"startTime":803.571,"endTime":806.963,"body":"be communicating words with."},{"startTime":803.571,"endTime":806.963,"body":"I'm moving my hands around now. Of"},{"startTime":806.979,"endTime":807.251,"body":"course."},{"startTime":807.323,"endTime":807.935,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":808.675,"endTime":812.971,"body":"No, with movement of the body"},{"startTime":808.675,"endTime":812.971,"body":"and the parallels of that. But also"},{"startTime":813.003,"endTime":817.775,"body":"what I'm spotting is that you"},{"startTime":813.003,"endTime":817.775,"body":"found by chance things that you loved."},{"startTime":817.815,"endTime":821.511,"body":"So going into the education,"},{"startTime":817.815,"endTime":821.511,"body":"but then getting you to the facilitating"},{"startTime":821.583,"endTime":824.599,"body":"and how much you love that,"},{"startTime":821.583,"endTime":824.599,"body":"and then to the interpreting and"},{"startTime":824.607,"endTime":827.927,"body":"the way it's all around, the"},{"startTime":824.607,"endTime":827.927,"body":"way that your brain works and the"},{"startTime":827.951,"endTime":831.543,"body":"things you want to do, it has"},{"startTime":827.951,"endTime":831.543,"body":"come to you. I'm not quite sure how"},{"startTime":831.559,"endTime":833.671,"body":"many careers you're on there,"},{"startTime":831.559,"endTime":833.671,"body":"but there's certainly."},{"startTime":833.783,"endTime":837.775,"body":"There's a couple there. I"},{"startTime":833.783,"endTime":837.775,"body":"picked strawberries for my first"},{"startTime":837.855,"endTime":841.543,"body":"job. I was a mascot. I was a"},{"startTime":837.855,"endTime":841.543,"body":"camp counselor. I was a whole lot"},{"startTime":841.559,"endTime":849.911,"body":"of empathy things. A festival"},{"startTime":841.559,"endTime":849.911,"body":"organizer. Yes. So I. Yeah. And actually"},{"startTime":849.943,"endTime":853.735,"body":"it was years. It was years"},{"startTime":849.943,"endTime":853.735,"body":"after that that I actually connected"},{"startTime":853.775,"endTime":856.631,"body":"the dots. I was like, this is"},{"startTime":853.775,"endTime":856.631,"body":"really fascinating because there's"},{"startTime":856.663,"endTime":860.559,"body":"like the. The facilitation,"},{"startTime":856.663,"endTime":860.559,"body":"the sign language, and then even"},{"startTime":860.607,"endTime":864.191,"body":"like, working with kids. And"},{"startTime":860.607,"endTime":864.191,"body":"the. What it is that I do now, it's"},{"startTime":864.223,"endTime":868.599,"body":"all communication in different"},{"startTime":864.223,"endTime":868.599,"body":"formats. And it. It took me a while"},{"startTime":868.647,"endTime":872.787,"body":"to realize, like, oh, that's"},{"startTime":868.647,"endTime":872.787,"body":"the common thread through my life."},{"startTime":872.911,"endTime":878.571,"body":"And I really felt a lot of"},{"startTime":872.911,"endTime":878.571,"body":"turmoil when I was in high school"},{"startTime":878.643,"endTime":883.035,"body":"because I just wanted to help"},{"startTime":878.643,"endTime":883.035,"body":"people, but I didn't know what that"},{"startTime":883.115,"endTime":888.163,"body":"looked like. And in my high"},{"startTime":883.115,"endTime":888.163,"body":"school brain and what was presented"},{"startTime":888.179,"endTime":891.435,"body":"to me at the time was if you"},{"startTime":888.179,"endTime":891.435,"body":"want to help people, like medical"},{"startTime":891.515,"endTime":894.691,"body":"field. And I'm like, that's"},{"startTime":891.515,"endTime":894.691,"body":"not for me. Good for you. For all"},{"startTime":894.723,"endTime":897.171,"body":"the people who can do that."},{"startTime":894.723,"endTime":897.171,"body":"And I'm very grateful for you, but"},{"startTime":897.203,"endTime":902.537,"body":"I can't. That's not for me."},{"startTime":897.203,"endTime":902.537,"body":"And so, you know, really looking"},{"startTime":902.601,"endTime":906.449,"body":"back at it, it makes me feel"},{"startTime":902.601,"endTime":906.449,"body":"very, like, brings me a lot of joy"},{"startTime":906.497,"endTime":910.289,"body":"that I do help people"},{"startTime":906.497,"endTime":910.289,"body":"communicate in this way. Like, I."},{"startTime":910.337,"endTime":913.961,"body":"I did reach that goal when I"},{"startTime":910.337,"endTime":913.961,"body":"was a kid just wanting to help people,"},{"startTime":914.033,"endTime":916.825,"body":"but I just didn't know what"},{"startTime":914.033,"endTime":916.825,"body":"that looked like. And I just had"},{"startTime":916.865,"endTime":920.097,"body":"such a limited view on it at"},{"startTime":916.865,"endTime":920.097,"body":"the time, unfortunately, that I didn't"},{"startTime":920.121,"endTime":922.457,"body":"know there was just so many"},{"startTime":920.121,"endTime":922.457,"body":"opportunities, and they just sort"},{"startTime":922.481,"endTime":925.297,"body":"of, like you said, the"},{"startTime":922.481,"endTime":925.297,"body":"synchronicities of them just sort"},{"startTime":925.321,"endTime":927.633,"body":"of happened. Like, I would. If"},{"startTime":925.321,"endTime":927.633,"body":"I never would have done that, then"},{"startTime":927.649,"endTime":929.841,"body":"I wouldn't have learned about"},{"startTime":927.649,"endTime":929.841,"body":"facilitation, then I never would"},{"startTime":929.873,"endTime":933.045,"body":"have learned about graphic"},{"startTime":929.873,"endTime":933.045,"body":"facilitation and so on and so on."},{"startTime":933.085,"endTime":938.357,"body":"Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely."},{"startTime":933.085,"endTime":938.357,"body":"Did you have to learn to draw? You"},{"startTime":938.381,"endTime":940.557,"body":"said at the beginning the"},{"startTime":938.381,"endTime":940.557,"body":"course was like stick figures."},{"startTime":940.661,"endTime":940.997,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":941.061,"endTime":944.037,"body":"And you're now concentrating"},{"startTime":941.061,"endTime":944.037,"body":"on it more in your timeline. Does"},{"startTime":944.061,"endTime":947.117,"body":"that mean you're learning to"},{"startTime":944.061,"endTime":947.117,"body":"draw? And what is the difference"},{"startTime":947.181,"endTime":953.045,"body":"between drawing and drawing"},{"startTime":947.181,"endTime":953.045,"body":"what people are saying to communicate"},{"startTime":953.125,"endTime":955.637,"body":"and to make a memory of what's"},{"startTime":953.125,"endTime":955.637,"body":"being said?"},{"startTime":955.741,"endTime":961.401,"body":"Yeah, great question. So even"},{"startTime":955.741,"endTime":961.401,"body":"though I tried out a lot of mediums"},{"startTime":961.433,"endTime":964.257,"body":"when I was younger, I didn't"},{"startTime":961.433,"endTime":964.257,"body":"actually draw a whole lot, to be"},{"startTime":964.281,"endTime":967.489,"body":"honest with you. I did more."},{"startTime":964.281,"endTime":967.489,"body":"Like if I was painting, I was like"},{"startTime":967.537,"endTime":972.073,"body":"abstract or very, like folk"},{"startTime":967.537,"endTime":972.073,"body":"art, but, you know, not really drawing"},{"startTime":972.129,"endTime":976.905,"body":"drawing. So I did not tell"},{"startTime":972.129,"endTime":976.905,"body":"people for a very, very, very long"},{"startTime":976.945,"endTime":981.385,"body":"time that I didn't know how to"},{"startTime":976.945,"endTime":981.385,"body":"draw. I just sort of faked it until"},{"startTime":981.425,"endTime":985.833,"body":"I make it, to be honest with"},{"startTime":981.425,"endTime":985.833,"body":"you, those first few years, and just"},{"startTime":985.889,"endTime":989.337,"body":"drew what I could and just"},{"startTime":985.889,"endTime":989.337,"body":"ended up drawing the same stuff over"},{"startTime":989.361,"endTime":992.573,"body":"and over again. And that's"},{"startTime":989.361,"endTime":992.573,"body":"what I teach now, people, is, you"},{"startTime":992.589,"endTime":996.701,"body":"know, build up some visuals"},{"startTime":992.589,"endTime":996.701,"body":"that, you know how to draw that can"},{"startTime":996.733,"endTime":1000.069,"body":"also represent many, many"},{"startTime":996.733,"endTime":1000.069,"body":"things. Like a light bulb was something"},{"startTime":1000.117,"endTime":1003.453,"body":"I was like, okay, I can draw a"},{"startTime":1000.117,"endTime":1003.453,"body":"light bulb. I can do that. And I'm"},{"startTime":1003.469,"endTime":1006.205,"body":"just going to put it on"},{"startTime":1003.469,"endTime":1006.205,"body":"everything that I do because I know"},{"startTime":1006.245,"endTime":1009.381,"body":"how to draw it. Let's just put"},{"startTime":1006.245,"endTime":1009.381,"body":"it in the place where, you know,"},{"startTime":1009.413,"endTime":1012.797,"body":"someone had a really good idea"},{"startTime":1009.413,"endTime":1012.797,"body":"or we really like the biggest take"},{"startTime":1012.821,"endTime":1015.981,"body":"home. Like, I always just kind"},{"startTime":1012.821,"endTime":1015.981,"body":"of throw it in those areas of the"},{"startTime":1016.013,"endTime":1020.871,"body":"graphic. But, yeah, I had to,"},{"startTime":1016.013,"endTime":1020.871,"body":"you know, luckily, I entered this,"},{"startTime":1021.023,"endTime":1025.875,"body":"the world of it, with"},{"startTime":1021.023,"endTime":1025.875,"body":"listening and thinking skills already."},{"startTime":1026.175,"endTime":1029.863,"body":"You know, of course it's"},{"startTime":1026.175,"endTime":1029.863,"body":"always developing, but I had a good"},{"startTime":1029.919,"endTime":1034.047,"body":"sense of listening and being"},{"startTime":1029.919,"endTime":1034.047,"body":"able to synthesize information, to"},{"startTime":1034.071,"endTime":1037.471,"body":"feed it back in words. So then"},{"startTime":1034.071,"endTime":1037.471,"body":"when I moved into this field, I had"},{"startTime":1037.503,"endTime":1042.335,"body":"to really beef up and learn"},{"startTime":1037.503,"endTime":1042.335,"body":"kind of from scratch drawing skills."},{"startTime":1042.455,"endTime":1047.535,"body":"It is an interesting world of"},{"startTime":1042.455,"endTime":1047.535,"body":"graphic facilitation or visual thinking."},{"startTime":1047.575,"endTime":1051.973,"body":"There's so many words for it,"},{"startTime":1047.575,"endTime":1051.973,"body":"but people enter it in so many different"},{"startTime":1052.029,"endTime":1056.581,"body":"ways. Some people who enter it"},{"startTime":1052.029,"endTime":1056.581,"body":"more from an art perspective, they"},{"startTime":1056.613,"endTime":1059.693,"body":"seem to be more challenged"},{"startTime":1056.613,"endTime":1059.693,"body":"with the listening and thinking part."},{"startTime":1059.829,"endTime":1063.181,"body":"Right. Whereas I had that"},{"startTime":1059.829,"endTime":1063.181,"body":"part. So I had to really beef up"},{"startTime":1063.253,"endTime":1066.821,"body":"the graphics. So even though"},{"startTime":1063.253,"endTime":1066.821,"body":"I've been doing for 10 years. There's"},{"startTime":1066.853,"endTime":1069.805,"body":"people that I know that have"},{"startTime":1066.853,"endTime":1069.805,"body":"been doing it for way shorter time"},{"startTime":1069.845,"endTime":1074.389,"body":"than me and their work looks"},{"startTime":1069.845,"endTime":1074.389,"body":"so beautiful because they really"},{"startTime":1074.437,"endTime":1077.819,"body":"had those skills kind of"},{"startTime":1074.437,"endTime":1077.819,"body":"coming into it. But at the end of"},{"startTime":1077.827,"endTime":1082.003,"body":"the day, it's really about"},{"startTime":1077.827,"endTime":1082.003,"body":"reflecting to a group or a conference"},{"startTime":1082.059,"endTime":1086.139,"body":"or what have you, the"},{"startTime":1082.059,"endTime":1086.139,"body":"information that came from that."},{"startTime":1086.227,"endTime":1091.411,"body":"So beauty is kind of a"},{"startTime":1086.227,"endTime":1091.411,"body":"byproduct in my opinion. Sometimes"},{"startTime":1091.483,"endTime":1094.595,"body":"conversations are messy, so"},{"startTime":1091.483,"endTime":1094.595,"body":"the visual is messy. That's just"},{"startTime":1094.635,"endTime":1098.731,"body":"the nature of how it goes. But"},{"startTime":1094.635,"endTime":1098.731,"body":"it's fun because a lot of people"},{"startTime":1098.763,"endTime":1102.131,"body":"have never seen it before and"},{"startTime":1098.763,"endTime":1102.131,"body":"never experienced it. It's fun to"},{"startTime":1102.163,"endTime":1106.035,"body":"kind of blow people's minds"},{"startTime":1102.163,"endTime":1106.035,"body":"when you can do it like live in real"},{"startTime":1106.075,"endTime":1109.339,"body":"time and see it unfold. Yeah, yeah."},{"startTime":1109.507,"endTime":1115.627,"body":"And what do you think the"},{"startTime":1109.507,"endTime":1115.627,"body":"benefits are for the viewer then?"},{"startTime":1115.731,"endTime":1120.415,"body":"Graphic, visual, note taking"},{"startTime":1115.731,"endTime":1120.415,"body":"over writing and reading words."},{"startTime":1120.755,"endTime":1124.843,"body":"So I have a very pre and post"},{"startTime":1120.755,"endTime":1124.843,"body":"Covid story, like a lot of people."},{"startTime":1124.899,"endTime":1128.795,"body":"Right. So pre Covid, I was"},{"startTime":1124.899,"endTime":1128.795,"body":"100% in person and I have to mention"},{"startTime":1128.835,"endTime":1132.379,"body":"that for a reason. And I'll"},{"startTime":1128.835,"endTime":1132.379,"body":"get into it in a minute. But now"},{"startTime":1132.467,"endTime":1135.463,"body":"I am starting to get more in"},{"startTime":1132.467,"endTime":1135.463,"body":"person and I'm just a little bit"},{"startTime":1135.479,"endTime":1139.599,"body":"more picky on in person work"},{"startTime":1135.479,"endTime":1139.599,"body":"these days. But I do a lot virtually"},{"startTime":1139.687,"endTime":1143.583,"body":"so people can see my drawing"},{"startTime":1139.687,"endTime":1143.583,"body":"unfold on their screen alongside"},{"startTime":1143.639,"endTime":1147.455,"body":"a speaker or a conversation or"},{"startTime":1143.639,"endTime":1147.455,"body":"what have you. But I wanted to mention"},{"startTime":1147.495,"endTime":1151.367,"body":"that because there's something"},{"startTime":1147.495,"endTime":1151.367,"body":"really magical about being in person."},{"startTime":1151.431,"endTime":1156.687,"body":"In particular because I'm"},{"startTime":1151.431,"endTime":1156.687,"body":"drawing very large, so usually 3"},{"startTime":1156.751,"endTime":1162.711,"body":"to 4ft wide by 8, 10, 15, I"},{"startTime":1156.751,"endTime":1162.711,"body":"don't know, however long it needs"},{"startTime":1162.743,"endTime":1166.363,"body":"to be. I think I did one a few"},{"startTime":1162.743,"endTime":1166.363,"body":"weeks ago and ended up being 18ft"},{"startTime":1166.439,"endTime":1172.291,"body":"on for a two day conversation."},{"startTime":1166.439,"endTime":1172.291,"body":"So the largeness of it is important"},{"startTime":1172.403,"endTime":1176.211,"body":"to mention because when you're"},{"startTime":1172.403,"endTime":1176.211,"body":"sitting there and you're having a"},{"startTime":1176.243,"endTime":1178.667,"body":"conversation or you're"},{"startTime":1176.243,"endTime":1178.667,"body":"listening to a speaker or what have"},{"startTime":1178.691,"endTime":1183.171,"body":"you, if you look over to the"},{"startTime":1178.691,"endTime":1183.171,"body":"graphic and because it's all live"},{"startTime":1183.203,"endTime":1187.211,"body":"in real time, I'm really"},{"startTime":1183.203,"endTime":1187.211,"body":"trying to keep pace with what's happening."},{"startTime":1187.323,"endTime":1190.731,"body":"They hear it, they look over,"},{"startTime":1187.323,"endTime":1190.731,"body":"they see it. It confirms what they've"},{"startTime":1190.763,"endTime":1194.763,"body":"just heard. Right. So it like"},{"startTime":1190.763,"endTime":1194.763,"body":"solidifies. I love working with people"},{"startTime":1194.819,"endTime":1198.411,"body":"who care about the learning"},{"startTime":1194.819,"endTime":1198.411,"body":"and the memory retention and the"},{"startTime":1198.443,"endTime":1201.683,"body":"engagement of the people in"},{"startTime":1198.443,"endTime":1201.683,"body":"the room. Because then they can kind"},{"startTime":1201.699,"endTime":1204.515,"body":"of, like I said, look at it"},{"startTime":1201.699,"endTime":1204.515,"body":"and go, oh, right, that's what they"},{"startTime":1204.555,"endTime":1208.147,"body":"just said. It allows them to"},{"startTime":1204.555,"endTime":1208.147,"body":"see connections between things that"},{"startTime":1208.171,"endTime":1210.915,"body":"maybe they hadn't seen."},{"startTime":1208.171,"endTime":1210.915,"body":"Because that's my job. My job is"},{"startTime":1210.955,"endTime":1214.227,"body":"to help make the connections."},{"startTime":1210.955,"endTime":1214.227,"body":"So if someone said something at the"},{"startTime":1214.251,"endTime":1216.203,"body":"end of the day, and then"},{"startTime":1214.251,"endTime":1216.203,"body":"someone else said it the middle of"},{"startTime":1216.219,"endTime":1218.939,"body":"the day, and someone said it"},{"startTime":1216.219,"endTime":1218.939,"body":"at the end of the day, it's going"},{"startTime":1218.947,"endTime":1222.689,"body":"to be represented as"},{"startTime":1218.947,"endTime":1222.689,"body":"altogether as something very important."},{"startTime":1222.827,"endTime":1225.517,"body":"People might not have realized"},{"startTime":1222.827,"endTime":1225.517,"body":"how important maybe those comments"},{"startTime":1225.581,"endTime":1230.525,"body":"were. But because I'm hyper"},{"startTime":1225.581,"endTime":1230.525,"body":"listening to everything, I can make"},{"startTime":1230.565,"endTime":1233.637,"body":"those connections for people"},{"startTime":1230.565,"endTime":1233.637,"body":"so they can come up and go, oh, my"},{"startTime":1233.661,"endTime":1236.229,"body":"gosh, that person said that"},{"startTime":1233.661,"endTime":1236.229,"body":"thing. And then that person said"},{"startTime":1236.277,"endTime":1240.197,"body":"that thing. Right. So it's"},{"startTime":1236.277,"endTime":1240.197,"body":"helping them, like, make those connections"},{"startTime":1240.261,"endTime":1244.989,"body":"and create this visual"},{"startTime":1240.261,"endTime":1244.989,"body":"representation to have them really"},{"startTime":1245.037,"endTime":1250.319,"body":"engage with it in the moment."},{"startTime":1245.037,"endTime":1250.319,"body":"But then also have this record that"},{"startTime":1250.367,"endTime":1253.359,"body":"now you can look at after the"},{"startTime":1250.367,"endTime":1253.359,"body":"meeting or print it off and put it"},{"startTime":1253.367,"endTime":1256.191,"body":"in your cubicle or what have"},{"startTime":1253.367,"endTime":1256.191,"body":"you and say, right, that was our"},{"startTime":1256.223,"endTime":1258.471,"body":"meeting, and this is what was"},{"startTime":1256.223,"endTime":1258.471,"body":"said, and this is what we committed"},{"startTime":1258.503,"endTime":1261.511,"body":"to, or this is what we need to"},{"startTime":1258.503,"endTime":1261.511,"body":"work on or what have you. Instead"},{"startTime":1261.543,"endTime":1265.111,"body":"of the opposite, which is"},{"startTime":1261.543,"endTime":1265.111,"body":"usually a written report, which is"},{"startTime":1265.183,"endTime":1269.415,"body":"not overly accessible. How"},{"startTime":1265.183,"endTime":1269.415,"body":"many times we put reports in drawers"},{"startTime":1269.455,"endTime":1272.471,"body":"and never see them again."},{"startTime":1269.455,"endTime":1272.471,"body":"Right. We don't. It's not a visual"},{"startTime":1272.583,"endTime":1276.133,"body":"cue to say, oh, right, we were"},{"startTime":1272.583,"endTime":1276.133,"body":"supposed to do this work, or this"},{"startTime":1276.149,"endTime":1279.485,"body":"is what our focus is over the"},{"startTime":1276.149,"endTime":1279.485,"body":"next six months, or what have you."},{"startTime":1279.565,"endTime":1281.125,"body":"Anyways, I'll pause there."},{"startTime":1281.245,"endTime":1288.317,"body":"Yeah. Now I can really see how"},{"startTime":1281.245,"endTime":1288.317,"body":"the previous listening, understanding,"},{"startTime":1288.381,"endTime":1292.501,"body":"facilitating, recommunicating"},{"startTime":1288.381,"endTime":1292.501,"body":"skills are super, super important"},{"startTime":1292.653,"endTime":1296.541,"body":"in this. In order that you're"},{"startTime":1292.653,"endTime":1296.541,"body":"going to pick up the things and move"},{"startTime":1296.573,"endTime":1299.053,"body":"them around and put them in a"},{"startTime":1296.573,"endTime":1299.053,"body":"place that it all makes sense at"},{"startTime":1299.069,"endTime":1301.669,"body":"the end, because you don't"},{"startTime":1299.069,"endTime":1301.669,"body":"know what's happening at the beginning,"},{"startTime":1301.717,"endTime":1303.861,"body":"what's going to happen at the"},{"startTime":1301.717,"endTime":1303.861,"body":"end. And then you've got, like, this"},{"startTime":1303.893,"endTime":1307.201,"body":"big picture that kind of"},{"startTime":1303.893,"endTime":1307.201,"body":"explains everything. So I really"},{"startTime":1307.293,"endTime":1312.089,"body":"understand the importance of"},{"startTime":1307.293,"endTime":1312.089,"body":"those skills rather than just drawing,"},{"startTime":1312.177,"endTime":1317.993,"body":"for example. So when you start"},{"startTime":1312.177,"endTime":1317.993,"body":"to take this more seriously, and"},{"startTime":1318.009,"endTime":1321.865,"body":"I'm not quite sure where the"},{"startTime":1318.009,"endTime":1321.865,"body":"COVID thing comes in, but how. How"},{"startTime":1321.905,"endTime":1325.641,"body":"did you then approach people?"},{"startTime":1321.905,"endTime":1325.641,"body":"I don't know to say look, because"},{"startTime":1325.673,"endTime":1328.905,"body":"I'm sure there are not very"},{"startTime":1325.673,"endTime":1328.905,"body":"many people that know that this is"},{"startTime":1328.945,"endTime":1332.257,"body":"being done. So how did you get"},{"startTime":1328.945,"endTime":1332.257,"body":"out there into the working world?"},{"startTime":1332.321,"endTime":1334.455,"body":"How did you get gigs, so to speak?"},{"startTime":1334.535,"endTime":1335.195,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1335.535,"endTime":1338.519,"body":"What's your confidence like"},{"startTime":1335.535,"endTime":1338.519,"body":"around doing that as well?"},{"startTime":1338.687,"endTime":1341.391,"body":"Oh, my gosh. How much time do"},{"startTime":1338.687,"endTime":1341.391,"body":"we have? I could talk about just"},{"startTime":1341.423,"endTime":1344.967,"body":"this question for, like, an"},{"startTime":1341.423,"endTime":1344.967,"body":"hour. Okay, I'll try to synthesize"},{"startTime":1345.031,"endTime":1350.399,"body":"it like a good little graphic"},{"startTime":1345.031,"endTime":1350.399,"body":"facilitator would I. You know, I"},{"startTime":1350.407,"endTime":1353.815,"body":"learned this was a thing in"},{"startTime":1350.407,"endTime":1353.815,"body":"late 2013. You know, I had a little"},{"startTime":1353.855,"endTime":1358.511,"body":"kid, then I had another kid,"},{"startTime":1353.855,"endTime":1358.511,"body":"and I Went to a conference in summer"},{"startTime":1358.543,"endTime":1362.007,"body":"of 2015. So I had been, you"},{"startTime":1358.543,"endTime":1362.007,"body":"know, doing it kind of here and there"},{"startTime":1362.031,"endTime":1364.159,"body":"and just sort of playing"},{"startTime":1362.031,"endTime":1364.159,"body":"around with it for about two years"},{"startTime":1364.207,"endTime":1366.995,"body":"at that point. I went to this"},{"startTime":1364.207,"endTime":1366.995,"body":"conference with people who do this"},{"startTime":1367.035,"endTime":1370.331,"body":"work very specifically and"},{"startTime":1367.035,"endTime":1370.331,"body":"gather all around from all around"},{"startTime":1370.363,"endTime":1373.619,"body":"the world. And I went to that"},{"startTime":1370.363,"endTime":1373.619,"body":"conference seven months pregnant,"},{"startTime":1373.787,"endTime":1376.523,"body":"and I was like, okay, I'm"},{"startTime":1373.787,"endTime":1376.523,"body":"going to go and I'm going to make"},{"startTime":1376.539,"endTime":1380.771,"body":"a decision at the end of this"},{"startTime":1376.539,"endTime":1380.771,"body":"conference. I'm going to go, is this"},{"startTime":1380.803,"endTime":1383.059,"body":"just something fun I'm going"},{"startTime":1380.803,"endTime":1383.059,"body":"to do as like a side hustle? I don't"},{"startTime":1383.067,"endTime":1385.755,"body":"even know side hustle was even"},{"startTime":1383.067,"endTime":1385.755,"body":"a conversation back then, but now"},{"startTime":1385.795,"endTime":1388.499,"body":"it would be considered a side"},{"startTime":1385.795,"endTime":1388.499,"body":"hustle. You know, when my facilitator"},{"startTime":1388.547,"endTime":1391.851,"body":"friends ask me and I'll do it"},{"startTime":1388.547,"endTime":1391.851,"body":"cool, or do I want to, like, go all"},{"startTime":1391.883,"endTime":1395.235,"body":"in on this thing? Um, so I"},{"startTime":1391.883,"endTime":1395.235,"body":"attended all the, like, little businessy"},{"startTime":1395.275,"endTime":1397.723,"body":"workshops that they had and"},{"startTime":1395.275,"endTime":1397.723,"body":"tried to have conversations with"},{"startTime":1397.739,"endTime":1401.419,"body":"people who had been doing it"},{"startTime":1397.739,"endTime":1401.419,"body":"for a long time and was very intimidating."},{"startTime":1401.507,"endTime":1405.267,"body":"I was absolutely terrified the"},{"startTime":1401.507,"endTime":1405.267,"body":"whole time. But obviously you know"},{"startTime":1405.291,"endTime":1408.587,"body":"the answer to that question at"},{"startTime":1405.291,"endTime":1408.587,"body":"the end. So after I had my second"},{"startTime":1408.691,"endTime":1413.531,"body":"and he was about a year old, I"},{"startTime":1408.691,"endTime":1413.531,"body":"was like, okay, I'm going to do this."},{"startTime":1413.603,"endTime":1417.635,"body":"I'm going to try to create a"},{"startTime":1413.603,"endTime":1417.635,"body":"proper business. Because up until"},{"startTime":1417.715,"endTime":1421.277,"body":"that point, those first 3ish"},{"startTime":1417.715,"endTime":1421.277,"body":"years, like, I didn't really have"},{"startTime":1421.301,"endTime":1425.101,"body":"a business. I kind of had an"},{"startTime":1421.301,"endTime":1425.101,"body":"I. I created a business name in 2014,"},{"startTime":1425.173,"endTime":1429.317,"body":"but I wasn't telling anybody."},{"startTime":1425.173,"endTime":1429.317,"body":"I was, you know, open for. For gigs"},{"startTime":1429.341,"endTime":1432.229,"body":"and things like that. So,"},{"startTime":1429.341,"endTime":1432.229,"body":"yeah, it was like late 2016, early"},{"startTime":1432.277,"endTime":1435.613,"body":"2017, I was like, okay, I'm"},{"startTime":1432.277,"endTime":1435.613,"body":"going to do this. I'm going to not"},{"startTime":1435.629,"endTime":1438.597,"body":"be secret business anymore."},{"startTime":1435.629,"endTime":1438.597,"body":"I'm a. I'm going to go all in on"},{"startTime":1438.621,"endTime":1442.757,"body":"this. And two things that I"},{"startTime":1438.621,"endTime":1442.757,"body":"really did, unfortunately, the work"},{"startTime":1442.861,"endTime":1446.389,"body":"is considered an experienced"},{"startTime":1442.861,"endTime":1446.389,"body":"good. You have to experience the"},{"startTime":1446.437,"endTime":1450.081,"body":"value of it to understand the"},{"startTime":1446.437,"endTime":1450.081,"body":"value of it. So I got to tell you"},{"startTime":1450.113,"endTime":1453.121,"body":"about this all day long, and"},{"startTime":1450.113,"endTime":1453.121,"body":"you can go, yeah, I can kind of get"},{"startTime":1453.153,"endTime":1457.937,"body":"the value. But until you're in"},{"startTime":1453.153,"endTime":1457.937,"body":"the room with me and you see your"},{"startTime":1458.001,"endTime":1463.073,"body":"own ideas and you have that,"},{"startTime":1458.001,"endTime":1463.073,"body":"like, deep connection to it, it's"},{"startTime":1463.089,"endTime":1466.625,"body":"a. That's a hard thing to"},{"startTime":1463.089,"endTime":1466.625,"body":"sell, man. It is very hard to sell."},{"startTime":1466.785,"endTime":1471.281,"body":"So, so I started doing a"},{"startTime":1466.785,"endTime":1471.281,"body":"little bit of putting myself in situations"},{"startTime":1471.313,"endTime":1475.217,"body":"on my community where I would"},{"startTime":1471.313,"endTime":1475.217,"body":"show up in front of, like, groups"},{"startTime":1475.241,"endTime":1478.537,"body":"of people. So like"},{"startTime":1475.241,"endTime":1478.537,"body":"entrepreneur groups, their community"},{"startTime":1478.641,"endTime":1481.389,"body":"gatherings. I would just throw"},{"startTime":1478.641,"endTime":1481.389,"body":"up paper on the wa and do it. And"},{"startTime":1481.397,"endTime":1484.205,"body":"then, of course, people would"},{"startTime":1481.397,"endTime":1484.205,"body":"come over to me, that's where I started"},{"startTime":1484.245,"endTime":1487.645,"body":"getting some, like, larger"},{"startTime":1484.245,"endTime":1487.645,"body":"organizations in the community who"},{"startTime":1487.685,"endTime":1491.469,"body":"could pay for something like"},{"startTime":1487.685,"endTime":1491.469,"body":"that because they saw it and they"},{"startTime":1491.557,"endTime":1495.157,"body":"understand it, even if they"},{"startTime":1491.557,"endTime":1495.157,"body":"can't articulate, they know that"},{"startTime":1495.181,"endTime":1497.493,"body":"they're connected. And, like,"},{"startTime":1495.181,"endTime":1497.493,"body":"the number one thing that people"},{"startTime":1497.549,"endTime":1500.645,"body":"say to me at events is, oh, I"},{"startTime":1497.549,"endTime":1500.645,"body":"love this, because I'm a visual learner."},{"startTime":1500.765,"endTime":1504.869,"body":"And a lot of times we don't"},{"startTime":1500.765,"endTime":1504.869,"body":"lean in on those. You know, learning"},{"startTime":1504.917,"endTime":1507.775,"body":"styles technically are"},{"startTime":1504.917,"endTime":1507.775,"body":"debunked, but people still relate"},{"startTime":1507.815,"endTime":1511.319,"body":"to them. So I mention them,"},{"startTime":1507.815,"endTime":1511.319,"body":"but I always with the asterisks that"},{"startTime":1511.367,"endTime":1514.535,"body":"technically they're debunked,"},{"startTime":1511.367,"endTime":1514.535,"body":"but people still, you know, have"},{"startTime":1514.575,"endTime":1518.903,"body":"a connection to how they like"},{"startTime":1514.575,"endTime":1518.903,"body":"to learn. Right. So that was one,"},{"startTime":1518.959,"endTime":1523.151,"body":"just trying to show up and be"},{"startTime":1518.959,"endTime":1523.151,"body":"in spaces where people would experience"},{"startTime":1523.263,"endTime":1527.087,"body":"it. And of course, I didn't"},{"startTime":1523.263,"endTime":1527.087,"body":"want to volunteer my time too much,"},{"startTime":1527.151,"endTime":1530.495,"body":"but, like, I tried to be kind"},{"startTime":1527.151,"endTime":1530.495,"body":"of picky about where I showed up."},{"startTime":1530.615,"endTime":1534.345,"body":"And two, was just telling"},{"startTime":1530.615,"endTime":1534.345,"body":"people, honestly, I would contact"},{"startTime":1534.465,"endTime":1539.225,"body":"conferences, a lot of cold"},{"startTime":1534.465,"endTime":1539.225,"body":"emails, to be honest with you. And"},{"startTime":1539.265,"endTime":1544.045,"body":"that worked very successfully"},{"startTime":1539.265,"endTime":1544.045,"body":"for me for a very, very long time."},{"startTime":1544.385,"endTime":1547.185,"body":"And I took the foot off the"},{"startTime":1544.385,"endTime":1547.185,"body":"gas when I started getting really"},{"startTime":1547.225,"endTime":1551.113,"body":"busy in, like, 2018, 2019."},{"startTime":1547.225,"endTime":1551.113,"body":"Then when Covid happened and I had"},{"startTime":1551.129,"endTime":1554.337,"body":"to move everything online, I"},{"startTime":1551.129,"endTime":1554.337,"body":"just, like, well, cold pitching worked"},{"startTime":1554.361,"endTime":1558.097,"body":"in the past. Let's do it"},{"startTime":1554.361,"endTime":1558.097,"body":"again. So I just started sending,"},{"startTime":1558.241,"endTime":1562.833,"body":"you know, and half of my work"},{"startTime":1558.241,"endTime":1562.833,"body":"from 2020 came from just cold outreach"},{"startTime":1562.969,"endTime":1566.609,"body":"being like, hey, I heard you"},{"startTime":1562.969,"endTime":1566.609,"body":"moved your event online. I do this"},{"startTime":1566.657,"endTime":1569.833,"body":"thing. People would have a"},{"startTime":1566.657,"endTime":1569.833,"body":"whole different level of engagement,"},{"startTime":1569.889,"endTime":1573.137,"body":"because at that time, zoom"},{"startTime":1569.889,"endTime":1573.137,"body":"fatigue was starting to become a"},{"startTime":1573.201,"endTime":1576.881,"body":"term. Right? Yeah. I'm like,"},{"startTime":1573.201,"endTime":1576.881,"body":"you know, you can combat that by"},{"startTime":1576.913,"endTime":1579.921,"body":"people being able to engage"},{"startTime":1576.913,"endTime":1579.921,"body":"with your information in this way."},{"startTime":1579.993,"endTime":1586.049,"body":"And I actually made more money"},{"startTime":1579.993,"endTime":1586.049,"body":"in 2020 than I did in 2019, surprisingly"},{"startTime":1586.097,"endTime":1591.385,"body":"enough, just by paddle to the"},{"startTime":1586.097,"endTime":1591.385,"body":"metal. And do I love sending cold"},{"startTime":1591.425,"endTime":1595.787,"body":"emails? No, it's not fun. You"},{"startTime":1591.425,"endTime":1595.787,"body":"always, like, have this little worry"},{"startTime":1595.811,"endTime":1598.075,"body":"that someone's going to yell"},{"startTime":1595.811,"endTime":1598.075,"body":"at you. How many times have people"},{"startTime":1598.115,"endTime":1601.899,"body":"yelled at me in email? Very"},{"startTime":1598.115,"endTime":1601.899,"body":"few. Very few. It has happened, but"},{"startTime":1601.947,"endTime":1604.987,"body":"very, very, very few. Right."},{"startTime":1601.947,"endTime":1604.987,"body":"So most of the time, people just"},{"startTime":1605.011,"endTime":1608.251,"body":"don't respond. Or they respond"},{"startTime":1605.011,"endTime":1608.251,"body":"and say, yeah, let's hop on a call"},{"startTime":1608.283,"endTime":1611.771,"body":"and talk about what this might"},{"startTime":1608.283,"endTime":1611.771,"body":"look like for us. So it was just"},{"startTime":1611.803,"endTime":1616.259,"body":"about kind of putting myself"},{"startTime":1611.803,"endTime":1616.259,"body":"in uncomfortable situations and experiencing"},{"startTime":1616.307,"endTime":1619.763,"body":"a lot of rejection those first"},{"startTime":1616.307,"endTime":1619.763,"body":"few years, because every time I get"},{"startTime":1619.779,"endTime":1624.947,"body":"on a sales call, I'd be, like,"},{"startTime":1619.779,"endTime":1624.947,"body":"sweating, just, like sweating so"},{"startTime":1625.011,"endTime":1630.259,"body":"bad, terrified to talk to"},{"startTime":1625.011,"endTime":1630.259,"body":"people. But I'm glad I sort of Muddled"},{"startTime":1630.307,"endTime":1632.883,"body":"through. I feel like I'm kind"},{"startTime":1630.307,"endTime":1632.883,"body":"of on the other side of that now."},{"startTime":1632.939,"endTime":1637.163,"body":"I think when you get"},{"startTime":1632.939,"endTime":1637.163,"body":"experience in the value of and you"},{"startTime":1637.219,"endTime":1641.403,"body":"really, really embody the"},{"startTime":1637.219,"endTime":1641.403,"body":"value of your work in this way, the"},{"startTime":1641.499,"endTime":1645.155,"body":"rejections don't really hurt"},{"startTime":1641.499,"endTime":1645.155,"body":"so much. Because you're like, I know"},{"startTime":1645.275,"endTime":1648.899,"body":"that any event that brings me"},{"startTime":1645.275,"endTime":1648.899,"body":"in, the people are really going to"},{"startTime":1648.907,"endTime":1651.651,"body":"love it and appreciate it"},{"startTime":1648.907,"endTime":1651.651,"body":"because that's all I've ever gotten"},{"startTime":1651.723,"endTime":1655.851,"body":"from feedback. The attendees"},{"startTime":1651.723,"endTime":1655.851,"body":"love it. The speakers feel special."},{"startTime":1656.043,"endTime":1659.475,"body":"Now, if someone chooses not to"},{"startTime":1656.043,"endTime":1659.475,"body":"work with me for whatever reason,"},{"startTime":1659.595,"endTime":1664.515,"body":"it doesn't hurt like it used"},{"startTime":1659.595,"endTime":1664.515,"body":"to, because I know from just years"},{"startTime":1664.555,"endTime":1667.395,"body":"of experience at this point"},{"startTime":1664.555,"endTime":1667.395,"body":"that everybody really, you know,"},{"startTime":1667.435,"endTime":1668.411,"body":"resonates with it."},{"startTime":1668.483,"endTime":1673.859,"body":"So it's more a case of them"},{"startTime":1668.483,"endTime":1673.859,"body":"not understanding what value you"},{"startTime":1673.907,"endTime":1677.651,"body":"can bring. Not that you're"},{"startTime":1673.907,"endTime":1677.651,"body":"rubbish or anything like that."},{"startTime":1677.683,"endTime":1681.211,"body":"Yeah. And it is hard to be a"},{"startTime":1677.683,"endTime":1681.211,"body":"creative entrepreneur in that perspective"},{"startTime":1681.283,"endTime":1685.375,"body":"because you are start putting"},{"startTime":1681.283,"endTime":1685.375,"body":"your creativity on the line. Those"},{"startTime":1685.415,"endTime":1688.791,"body":"rejections, those first few"},{"startTime":1685.415,"endTime":1688.791,"body":"years, I think I had a really hard"},{"startTime":1688.823,"endTime":1692.551,"body":"time separating the creative"},{"startTime":1688.823,"endTime":1692.551,"body":"from the work, from the client, from"},{"startTime":1692.583,"endTime":1695.151,"body":"the business. Some of my"},{"startTime":1692.583,"endTime":1695.151,"body":"friends sort of joke that I had."},{"startTime":1695.183,"endTime":1698.527,"body":"I'm this like, sliding scale."},{"startTime":1695.183,"endTime":1698.527,"body":"I'm like the creative and then I'm"},{"startTime":1698.551,"endTime":1702.175,"body":"the business owner and I'm"},{"startTime":1698.551,"endTime":1702.175,"body":"like somewhere in between at any"},{"startTime":1702.215,"endTime":1705.055,"body":"moment. Like, sometimes I'm"},{"startTime":1702.215,"endTime":1705.055,"body":"like, all right, well, now it's time"},{"startTime":1705.095,"endTime":1708.763,"body":"to do the creative work and"},{"startTime":1705.095,"endTime":1708.763,"body":"let's do it. And then I slide to"},{"startTime":1708.779,"endTime":1711.363,"body":"the other side to be like, all"},{"startTime":1708.779,"endTime":1711.363,"body":"right, well, I'm not doing. If you"},{"startTime":1711.379,"endTime":1715.331,"body":"don't sign this contract, you"},{"startTime":1711.379,"endTime":1715.331,"body":"have to sort of put your business"},{"startTime":1715.403,"endTime":1720.163,"body":"hat on and be able to be"},{"startTime":1715.403,"endTime":1720.163,"body":"really flexible in that. That scale."},{"startTime":1720.219,"endTime":1723.595,"body":"Because if you aren't and"},{"startTime":1720.219,"endTime":1723.595,"body":"you're too much in the creative side,"},{"startTime":1723.675,"endTime":1727.299,"body":"then you're potentially put"},{"startTime":1723.675,"endTime":1727.299,"body":"yourself at a lot of risk for getting"},{"startTime":1727.387,"endTime":1731.083,"body":"taken advantage of or not"},{"startTime":1727.387,"endTime":1731.083,"body":"being paid properly or what have"},{"startTime":1731.139,"endTime":1734.491,"body":"you. Right. So those first few"},{"startTime":1731.139,"endTime":1734.491,"body":"years was really about trying to"},{"startTime":1734.563,"endTime":1738.631,"body":"figure out that balance and"},{"startTime":1734.563,"endTime":1738.631,"body":"where am I fitting at any given point"},{"startTime":1738.663,"endTime":1742.343,"body":"of time? Because it is, like,"},{"startTime":1738.663,"endTime":1742.343,"body":"important to be flexible in that"},{"startTime":1742.399,"endTime":1745.595,"body":"scale and not live too far in"},{"startTime":1742.399,"endTime":1745.595,"body":"one end or the other."},{"startTime":1746.015,"endTime":1750.007,"body":"That's a very valuable"},{"startTime":1746.015,"endTime":1750.007,"body":"learning in itself because, I mean,"},{"startTime":1750.031,"endTime":1754.063,"body":"we often talk about balance"},{"startTime":1750.031,"endTime":1754.063,"body":"when creative activities become your"},{"startTime":1754.119,"endTime":1759.167,"body":"business. And it sounds like"},{"startTime":1754.119,"endTime":1759.167,"body":"you've got yourself to a good place"},{"startTime":1759.271,"endTime":1763.887,"body":"with regards to still being"},{"startTime":1759.271,"endTime":1763.887,"body":"able to get the joy from the creativity"},{"startTime":1763.951,"endTime":1765.687,"body":"and make the business work as well."},{"startTime":1765.751,"endTime":1767.355,"body":"Exactly, yeah."},{"startTime":1767.975,"endTime":1771.639,"body":"Moving on. Tell me about your"},{"startTime":1767.975,"endTime":1771.639,"body":"book and your teaching."},{"startTime":1771.807,"endTime":1774.927,"body":"Oh, yes. Putting this book"},{"startTime":1771.807,"endTime":1774.927,"body":"together, the Beginner's Guide to"},{"startTime":1774.951,"endTime":1778.951,"body":"Sketchnoting was really. It"},{"startTime":1774.951,"endTime":1778.951,"body":"came from a Lot of. Especially being"},{"startTime":1778.983,"endTime":1782.255,"body":"in person. People being like,"},{"startTime":1778.983,"endTime":1782.255,"body":"oh, I like really relating to this"},{"startTime":1782.335,"endTime":1785.631,"body":"way of working. But them"},{"startTime":1782.335,"endTime":1785.631,"body":"saying like, oh, I wish you could"},{"startTime":1785.663,"endTime":1788.327,"body":"come to every meeting I have,"},{"startTime":1785.663,"endTime":1788.327,"body":"or, oh, I'd love to learn how to"},{"startTime":1788.351,"endTime":1791.111,"body":"do this, or, you know, but"},{"startTime":1788.351,"endTime":1791.111,"body":"people not believing that they're"},{"startTime":1791.143,"endTime":1794.663,"body":"creative enough. So that's"},{"startTime":1791.143,"endTime":1794.663,"body":"where I started to be more transparent"},{"startTime":1794.759,"endTime":1798.959,"body":"in my lack of drawing skills."},{"startTime":1794.759,"endTime":1798.959,"body":"When I first started, when people"},{"startTime":1799.007,"endTime":1801.247,"body":"say, oh, I could never do"},{"startTime":1799.007,"endTime":1801.247,"body":"that. And I'm like, well, I didn't"},{"startTime":1801.271,"endTime":1805.303,"body":"know how to draw, but people"},{"startTime":1801.271,"endTime":1805.303,"body":"don't believe me. And I'm like, no,"},{"startTime":1805.319,"endTime":1808.615,"body":"I really didn't. Like, I"},{"startTime":1805.319,"endTime":1808.615,"body":"really had to start. So when people"},{"startTime":1808.655,"endTime":1811.487,"body":"say, oh, I could never do"},{"startTime":1808.655,"endTime":1811.487,"body":"that, I'm like, that's totally rubbish."},{"startTime":1811.551,"endTime":1815.151,"body":"Because you absolutely can."},{"startTime":1811.551,"endTime":1815.151,"body":"Because I had to start. I really"},{"startTime":1815.183,"endTime":1818.359,"body":"felt like from ground zero,"},{"startTime":1815.183,"endTime":1818.359,"body":"from drawing perspective, right?"},{"startTime":1818.407,"endTime":1822.079,"body":"And that's what people see. So"},{"startTime":1818.407,"endTime":1822.079,"body":"you can sneak in the listening and"},{"startTime":1822.087,"endTime":1825.669,"body":"the thinking stuff, but people"},{"startTime":1822.087,"endTime":1825.669,"body":"want to learn the drawing thing."},{"startTime":1825.757,"endTime":1828.685,"body":"So when I was putting the"},{"startTime":1825.757,"endTime":1828.685,"body":"Beginner's Guide to sketchnoting"},{"startTime":1828.725,"endTime":1831.605,"body":"book together. Now,"},{"startTime":1828.725,"endTime":1831.605,"body":"sketchnoting is a popularized term"},{"startTime":1831.645,"endTime":1836.133,"body":"that came out about 11 years"},{"startTime":1831.645,"endTime":1836.133,"body":"ago. A guy named Mike Rhodey kind"},{"startTime":1836.149,"endTime":1839.477,"body":"of coined it, but it's still"},{"startTime":1836.149,"endTime":1839.477,"body":"with all in the same realm. It's"},{"startTime":1839.501,"endTime":1843.285,"body":"just a term that is used. I"},{"startTime":1839.501,"endTime":1843.285,"body":"actually really love visual note"},{"startTime":1843.325,"endTime":1846.645,"body":"taking as a term as well."},{"startTime":1843.325,"endTime":1846.645,"body":"Visual note taking or sketchnoting"},{"startTime":1846.685,"endTime":1850.595,"body":"is more so learning this skill"},{"startTime":1846.685,"endTime":1850.595,"body":"for yourself so you could take your"},{"startTime":1850.635,"endTime":1854.651,"body":"own notes and. Or maybe like,"},{"startTime":1850.635,"endTime":1854.651,"body":"you could incorporate it into your"},{"startTime":1854.683,"endTime":1857.731,"body":"work if you wanted to. You"},{"startTime":1854.683,"endTime":1857.731,"body":"know, it's. It's all very similar"},{"startTime":1857.803,"endTime":1862.563,"body":"skill set. It's just a matter"},{"startTime":1857.803,"endTime":1862.563,"body":"of how it's applied. Right. So when"},{"startTime":1862.579,"endTime":1864.867,"body":"I was putting the book"},{"startTime":1862.579,"endTime":1864.867,"body":"together, I really felt like there"},{"startTime":1864.891,"endTime":1867.763,"body":"was something missing in the"},{"startTime":1864.891,"endTime":1867.763,"body":"marketplace, but I really felt like"},{"startTime":1867.779,"endTime":1871.243,"body":"there was a true beginner book"},{"startTime":1867.779,"endTime":1871.243,"body":"missing. We see all these beautiful"},{"startTime":1871.299,"endTime":1874.867,"body":"examples of people who've been"},{"startTime":1871.299,"endTime":1874.867,"body":"doing it forever. But what does it"},{"startTime":1874.891,"endTime":1878.019,"body":"look like to start as a true"},{"startTime":1874.891,"endTime":1878.019,"body":"beginner? So, like, the first thing"},{"startTime":1878.107,"endTime":1881.127,"body":"other than letters, we talk"},{"startTime":1878.107,"endTime":1881.127,"body":"about letters first. After letters,"},{"startTime":1881.151,"endTime":1884.231,"body":"we just talk about lines and"},{"startTime":1881.151,"endTime":1884.231,"body":"drawing lines. And why do you draw"},{"startTime":1884.263,"endTime":1887.823,"body":"a line and how do you draw a"},{"startTime":1884.263,"endTime":1887.823,"body":"line? I think most people can get"},{"startTime":1887.879,"endTime":1891.271,"body":"behind. I can draw a line."},{"startTime":1887.879,"endTime":1891.271,"body":"Doesn't even have to be a straight"},{"startTime":1891.303,"endTime":1893.743,"body":"line. You can draw a straight"},{"startTime":1891.303,"endTime":1893.743,"body":"line, but it doesn't even have to"},{"startTime":1893.759,"endTime":1897.447,"body":"be a straight line. It can be"},{"startTime":1893.759,"endTime":1897.447,"body":"a wonky, wiggly, squiggly line. Right."},{"startTime":1897.631,"endTime":1901.855,"body":"So it's been a really fun"},{"startTime":1897.631,"endTime":1901.855,"body":"journey to kind of be walking people"},{"startTime":1901.935,"endTime":1904.887,"body":"through this. This process."},{"startTime":1901.935,"endTime":1904.887,"body":"And when I was writing the book,"},{"startTime":1904.911,"endTime":1909.391,"body":"I did multiple rounds of beta"},{"startTime":1904.911,"endTime":1909.391,"body":"reading and had, I think, over 80"},{"startTime":1909.583,"endTime":1913.919,"body":"people read different versions"},{"startTime":1909.583,"endTime":1913.919,"body":"of it and get a lot of feedback."},{"startTime":1914.007,"endTime":1917.767,"body":"So it felt like when I first"},{"startTime":1914.007,"endTime":1917.767,"body":"started writing, I didn't even have,"},{"startTime":1917.791,"endTime":1920.431,"body":"like, a publishing date in"},{"startTime":1917.791,"endTime":1920.431,"body":"mind because I wanted to take the"},{"startTime":1920.463,"endTime":1923.511,"body":"time to make sure that I"},{"startTime":1920.463,"endTime":1923.511,"body":"incorporated. I ended up having over,"},{"startTime":1923.543,"endTime":1928.063,"body":"like, 1500 comments of"},{"startTime":1923.543,"endTime":1928.063,"body":"feedback. Things I thought were second"},{"startTime":1928.119,"endTime":1932.167,"body":"nature was not right. I had to"},{"startTime":1928.119,"endTime":1932.167,"body":"handhold more than I thought I needed"},{"startTime":1932.191,"endTime":1935.855,"body":"to. And there was things that"},{"startTime":1932.191,"endTime":1935.855,"body":"were, like. There was a whole chunks"},{"startTime":1935.895,"endTime":1939.299,"body":"of things that were missing."},{"startTime":1935.895,"endTime":1939.299,"body":"I. I ended up rewriting a whole chapter"},{"startTime":1939.427,"endTime":1942.427,"body":"right before the publishing"},{"startTime":1939.427,"endTime":1942.427,"body":"day because I just felt like it wasn't"},{"startTime":1942.491,"endTime":1945.283,"body":"quite right. Yeah, it was a"},{"startTime":1942.491,"endTime":1945.283,"body":"really kind of beautiful process."},{"startTime":1945.379,"endTime":1949.979,"body":"And, like, I really love being"},{"startTime":1945.379,"endTime":1949.979,"body":"a cheerleader and I really love supporting"},{"startTime":1950.027,"endTime":1953.787,"body":"people. And I'm used to do in"},{"startTime":1950.027,"endTime":1953.787,"body":"person workshops a lot more before"},{"startTime":1953.851,"endTime":1958.891,"body":"COVID and I was really missing"},{"startTime":1953.851,"endTime":1958.891,"body":"that and going back to sort of my"},{"startTime":1959.043,"endTime":1963.435,"body":"facilitation roots. I really"},{"startTime":1959.043,"endTime":1963.435,"body":"wanted to kind of see what I could"},{"startTime":1963.475,"endTime":1967.389,"body":"put together to support"},{"startTime":1963.475,"endTime":1967.389,"body":"people. If you pick up the book and"},{"startTime":1967.397,"endTime":1971.773,"body":"you're like, oh, I really want"},{"startTime":1967.397,"endTime":1971.773,"body":"to learn how to do this. Well, that's"},{"startTime":1971.789,"endTime":1974.437,"body":"when I launched sketchnote"},{"startTime":1971.789,"endTime":1974.437,"body":"School. It's like an online community"},{"startTime":1974.501,"endTime":1978.357,"body":"where people can come and hang"},{"startTime":1974.501,"endTime":1978.357,"body":"out and share their work and ask"},{"startTime":1978.421,"endTime":1983.197,"body":"questions. And we do live"},{"startTime":1978.421,"endTime":1983.197,"body":"workshops and doodle jams, and it's"},{"startTime":1983.221,"endTime":1987.517,"body":"just a fun time. And people"},{"startTime":1983.221,"endTime":1987.517,"body":"are in there from all different backgrounds,"},{"startTime":1987.661,"endTime":1992.533,"body":"all different skill levels."},{"startTime":1987.661,"endTime":1992.533,"body":"The beginners are sort of what inspired"},{"startTime":1992.589,"endTime":1995.397,"body":"me to start the community. But"},{"startTime":1992.589,"endTime":1995.397,"body":"there's certainly some people in"},{"startTime":1995.421,"endTime":1998.337,"body":"there that are just as"},{"startTime":1995.421,"endTime":1998.337,"body":"advanced as myself, but. But they"},{"startTime":1998.361,"endTime":2001.969,"body":"just want a place to be and"},{"startTime":1998.361,"endTime":2001.969,"body":"support and connect with each other"},{"startTime":2002.017,"endTime":2006.337,"body":"in, like, a safe and"},{"startTime":2002.017,"endTime":2006.337,"body":"supportive virtual environment, which"},{"startTime":2006.361,"endTime":2007.265,"body":"is really fun."},{"startTime":2007.425,"endTime":2011.457,"body":"It does sound fun. Just going"},{"startTime":2007.425,"endTime":2011.457,"body":"back to learning to draw. And you're"},{"startTime":2011.481,"endTime":2014.417,"body":"the. I'll say the third. I'm"},{"startTime":2011.481,"endTime":2014.417,"body":"not quite sure when this episode's"},{"startTime":2014.441,"endTime":2018.169,"body":"going out, but certainly the"},{"startTime":2014.441,"endTime":2018.169,"body":"third at the point of recording of"},{"startTime":2018.217,"endTime":2023.433,"body":"guests I've had who are very"},{"startTime":2018.217,"endTime":2023.433,"body":"big on saying that you can learn"},{"startTime":2023.569,"endTime":2026.977,"body":"to draw. One of them is Joanne"},{"startTime":2023.569,"endTime":2026.977,"body":"Robinson and one is Bianca Girola,"},{"startTime":2027.001,"endTime":2031.751,"body":"who both learn to draw and now"},{"startTime":2027.001,"endTime":2031.751,"body":"teach other people to draw and that"},{"startTime":2031.783,"endTime":2034.959,"body":"they can learn to draw and"},{"startTime":2031.783,"endTime":2034.959,"body":"often starting with a line as well"},{"startTime":2035.007,"endTime":2035.383,"body":"as you."},{"startTime":2035.439,"endTime":2039.679,"body":"I like that. That's amazing."},{"startTime":2035.439,"endTime":2039.679,"body":"Yeah. Well, obviously there's something"},{"startTime":2039.727,"endTime":2041.463,"body":"to it. There's something to it."},{"startTime":2041.519,"endTime":2042.967,"body":"Yeah, exactly."},{"startTime":2043.111,"endTime":2046.647,"body":"It's like taking away the"},{"startTime":2043.111,"endTime":2046.647,"body":"hesitancy. So when you're starting"},{"startTime":2046.671,"endTime":2050.599,"body":"with a line or I'm sure the"},{"startTime":2046.671,"endTime":2050.599,"body":"beautiful ways that these other two"},{"startTime":2050.647,"endTime":2055.467,"body":"people teach it in their way,"},{"startTime":2050.647,"endTime":2055.467,"body":"it's taking Away the hesitancy and"},{"startTime":2055.611,"endTime":2059.107,"body":"drawing in a non threatening"},{"startTime":2055.611,"endTime":2059.107,"body":"environment. So that when you do,"},{"startTime":2059.171,"endTime":2061.603,"body":"if you do want to do it live,"},{"startTime":2059.171,"endTime":2061.603,"body":"you don't always like, I have lots"},{"startTime":2061.619,"endTime":2064.387,"body":"of people in the community"},{"startTime":2061.619,"endTime":2064.387,"body":"that will not do it live, but they'll"},{"startTime":2064.411,"endTime":2067.603,"body":"listen to something, take"},{"startTime":2064.411,"endTime":2067.603,"body":"regular notes, and then create a"},{"startTime":2067.619,"endTime":2070.659,"body":"sketchnote from it as part of"},{"startTime":2067.619,"endTime":2070.659,"body":"their own personal learning or their"},{"startTime":2070.707,"endTime":2075.731,"body":"study notes or what have you."},{"startTime":2070.707,"endTime":2075.731,"body":"But the trick is to build up your"},{"startTime":2075.763,"endTime":2079.76,"body":"visual vocabulary of things"},{"startTime":2075.763,"endTime":2079.76,"body":"that you already know how to draw."},{"startTime":2079.922,"endTime":2083.004,"body":"Right. So we like start with"},{"startTime":2079.922,"endTime":2083.004,"body":"like little star, little box people,"},{"startTime":2083.044,"endTime":2085.892,"body":"and then you can like build"},{"startTime":2083.044,"endTime":2085.892,"body":"from there if you want, but you already"},{"startTime":2085.948,"endTime":2089.276,"body":"know how to draw the little"},{"startTime":2085.948,"endTime":2089.276,"body":"star person. When someone says especially"},{"startTime":2089.34,"endTime":2092.212,"body":"like a complex word like"},{"startTime":2089.34,"endTime":2092.212,"body":"vision or community, you're like,"},{"startTime":2092.268,"endTime":2095.308,"body":"ah, ding, ding, ding. I"},{"startTime":2092.268,"endTime":2095.308,"body":"already know how to draw that. And"},{"startTime":2095.316,"endTime":2098.516,"body":"you just do it without even"},{"startTime":2095.316,"endTime":2098.516,"body":"like worrying too much about it."},{"startTime":2098.54,"endTime":2101.396,"body":"You don't put a whole bunch of"},{"startTime":2098.54,"endTime":2101.396,"body":"pressure on it. So if you can start"},{"startTime":2101.42,"endTime":2105.692,"body":"with icons and things that are"},{"startTime":2101.42,"endTime":2105.692,"body":"easy to draw, that have multiple"},{"startTime":2105.748,"endTime":2110.671,"body":"meanings, that's where I love"},{"startTime":2105.748,"endTime":2110.671,"body":"to sort of kind of focus in when"},{"startTime":2110.703,"endTime":2112.047,"body":"people are getting started."},{"startTime":2112.231,"endTime":2116.903,"body":"Yeah, that's such a good idea."},{"startTime":2112.231,"endTime":2116.903,"body":"I used to do improv classes. Well,"},{"startTime":2116.919,"endTime":2120.159,"body":"I used to do drama classes and"},{"startTime":2116.919,"endTime":2120.159,"body":"we had some really good improvisation."},{"startTime":2120.207,"endTime":2123.007,"body":"And one of the people said,"},{"startTime":2120.207,"endTime":2123.007,"body":"how do you come up with the ideas?"},{"startTime":2123.111,"endTime":2125.875,"body":"And they said they had the"},{"startTime":2123.111,"endTime":2125.875,"body":"same thing. They practice so much"},{"startTime":2126.295,"endTime":2129.879,"body":"that they have ideas for"},{"startTime":2126.295,"endTime":2129.879,"body":"scenarios all in their head already."},{"startTime":2130.047,"endTime":2133.375,"body":"And some of the scenarios are"},{"startTime":2130.047,"endTime":2133.375,"body":"different scenarios, but you can"},{"startTime":2133.415,"endTime":2137.953,"body":"use the same symbol, so to"},{"startTime":2133.415,"endTime":2137.953,"body":"speak, to represent that, that scenario."},{"startTime":2138.009,"endTime":2141.849,"body":"So that's built, like you"},{"startTime":2138.009,"endTime":2141.849,"body":"said, your visual vocabulary. Yeah,"},{"startTime":2142.017,"endTime":2146.057,"body":"so that's one of those really"},{"startTime":2142.017,"endTime":2146.057,"body":"useful tips that just wouldn't come"},{"startTime":2146.121,"endTime":2149.617,"body":"naturally to people. First"},{"startTime":2146.121,"endTime":2149.617,"body":"coming to this, this role."},{"startTime":2149.761,"endTime":2153.137,"body":"Yeah, yeah. There's obviously"},{"startTime":2149.761,"endTime":2153.137,"body":"some magic to it, but there's an"},{"startTime":2153.161,"endTime":2156.817,"body":"incredible amount of practice"},{"startTime":2153.161,"endTime":2156.817,"body":"and it is like learning another language."},{"startTime":2157.001,"endTime":2160.449,"body":"It's not straight, you know,"},{"startTime":2157.001,"endTime":2160.449,"body":"translation. Like it would be like"},{"startTime":2160.497,"endTime":2163.931,"body":"words or sign language. It's"},{"startTime":2160.497,"endTime":2163.931,"body":"not like this is exactly what they"},{"startTime":2163.963,"endTime":2166.547,"body":"said. You're doing a little"},{"startTime":2163.963,"endTime":2166.547,"body":"bit more synthesizing and thinking"},{"startTime":2166.571,"endTime":2168.595,"body":"about what you're hearing and"},{"startTime":2166.571,"endTime":2168.595,"body":"trying to make those connections."},{"startTime":2168.675,"endTime":2171.963,"body":"But if you have your visual"},{"startTime":2168.675,"endTime":2171.963,"body":"vocabulary in your mind, so of a"},{"startTime":2171.979,"endTime":2175.211,"body":"bunch of images and things you"},{"startTime":2171.979,"endTime":2175.211,"body":"already know how to draw. It gives"},{"startTime":2175.243,"endTime":2180.451,"body":"you more head space to be able"},{"startTime":2175.243,"endTime":2180.451,"body":"to listen and think. So instead of"},{"startTime":2180.483,"endTime":2184.219,"body":"thinking, oh goodness, what do"},{"startTime":2180.483,"endTime":2184.219,"body":"I draw for vision? You're not even"},{"startTime":2184.267,"endTime":2187.147,"body":"thinking about that. You just"},{"startTime":2184.267,"endTime":2187.147,"body":"draw a little telescope or little"},{"startTime":2187.211,"endTime":2190.387,"body":"glasses or a little magnifying"},{"startTime":2187.211,"endTime":2190.387,"body":"glass or whatever it is you want"},{"startTime":2190.411,"endTime":2191.755,"body":"to draw for vision."},{"startTime":2191.915,"endTime":2192.403,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2192.499,"endTime":2196.811,"body":"And it Frees up your mental"},{"startTime":2192.499,"endTime":2196.811,"body":"capacity to be able to listen and"},{"startTime":2196.843,"endTime":2197.275,"body":"think."},{"startTime":2197.395,"endTime":2200.235,"body":"Because at the point you're"},{"startTime":2197.395,"endTime":2200.235,"body":"thinking, oh, what should I draw?"},{"startTime":2200.355,"endTime":2204.699,"body":"You're missing what's been"},{"startTime":2200.355,"endTime":2204.699,"body":"said next, and then you try to catch"},{"startTime":2204.747,"endTime":2205.339,"body":"up."},{"startTime":2205.507,"endTime":2209.083,"body":"Yeah, exactly. You know, so"},{"startTime":2205.507,"endTime":2209.083,"body":"sometimes, like for me, now that"},{"startTime":2209.099,"endTime":2211.411,"body":"I've been doing it for so"},{"startTime":2209.099,"endTime":2211.411,"body":"long, I just, like, draw the same"},{"startTime":2211.443,"endTime":2214.355,"body":"stuff over and over again. So"},{"startTime":2211.443,"endTime":2214.355,"body":"one thing that I try to challenge"},{"startTime":2214.395,"endTime":2217.915,"body":"myself is like, what's a way"},{"startTime":2214.395,"endTime":2217.915,"body":"that I've never drawn vision before?"},{"startTime":2218.035,"endTime":2220.547,"body":"Those are the kind of unique"},{"startTime":2218.035,"endTime":2220.547,"body":"challenges that I can give myself"},{"startTime":2220.611,"endTime":2224.423,"body":"and really just always be"},{"startTime":2220.611,"endTime":2224.423,"body":"expanding my vision vocabulary so"},{"startTime":2224.439,"endTime":2228.583,"body":"I don't kind of get stuck in a"},{"startTime":2224.439,"endTime":2228.583,"body":"rut. And, you know, the client or"},{"startTime":2228.599,"endTime":2231.103,"body":"the person, they don't know"},{"startTime":2228.599,"endTime":2231.103,"body":"that I'm doing that. But I need to"},{"startTime":2231.119,"endTime":2234.871,"body":"do that for my own kind of"},{"startTime":2231.119,"endTime":2234.871,"body":"creative challenges so that I don't"},{"startTime":2234.903,"endTime":2238.759,"body":"kind of get just stuck drawing"},{"startTime":2234.903,"endTime":2238.759,"body":"the same stuff over and over again."},{"startTime":2238.887,"endTime":2244.031,"body":"Yeah, brilliant. What thoughts"},{"startTime":2238.887,"endTime":2244.031,"body":"or plans or aspirations do you have"},{"startTime":2244.183,"endTime":2248.115,"body":"for yourself going forward"},{"startTime":2244.183,"endTime":2248.115,"body":"into the future, near or far?"},{"startTime":2248.735,"endTime":2251.479,"body":"Yeah, well, I'm really"},{"startTime":2248.735,"endTime":2251.479,"body":"doubling down on sketchnote School."},{"startTime":2251.527,"endTime":2254.919,"body":"It's really been my primary"},{"startTime":2251.527,"endTime":2254.919,"body":"focus for this year, and I want to."},{"startTime":2254.967,"endTime":2258.995,"body":"I really want to invest a lot"},{"startTime":2254.967,"endTime":2258.995,"body":"of time, energy and space into supporting"},{"startTime":2259.035,"endTime":2263.587,"body":"people in this way. Just kind"},{"startTime":2259.035,"endTime":2263.587,"body":"of learning how to even create and"},{"startTime":2263.611,"endTime":2267.931,"body":"sustain an online community in"},{"startTime":2263.611,"endTime":2267.931,"body":"itself is like a whole learning."},{"startTime":2268.043,"endTime":2272.267,"body":"But one thing that I have been"},{"startTime":2268.043,"endTime":2272.267,"body":"really kind of working behind the"},{"startTime":2272.291,"endTime":2278.451,"body":"scenes on is sort of a branch"},{"startTime":2272.291,"endTime":2278.451,"body":"of sketchnote School that specifically"},{"startTime":2278.523,"endTime":2283.123,"body":"supports educators and"},{"startTime":2278.523,"endTime":2283.123,"body":"teachers, upper elementary and high"},{"startTime":2283.179,"endTime":2290.123,"body":"school. Because I feel like"},{"startTime":2283.179,"endTime":2290.123,"body":"this way of taking notes could be"},{"startTime":2290.259,"endTime":2295.995,"body":"wildly beneficial to students"},{"startTime":2290.259,"endTime":2295.995,"body":"in school. And we've done our students"},{"startTime":2296.075,"endTime":2299.931,"body":"a grave disservice by not"},{"startTime":2296.075,"endTime":2299.931,"body":"teaching them multiple ways to capture"},{"startTime":2300.003,"endTime":2304.867,"body":"information. And I've noticed"},{"startTime":2300.003,"endTime":2304.867,"body":"this in my own children. So my oldest,"},{"startTime":2305.011,"endTime":2308.435,"body":"she's in grade five. She's 11,"},{"startTime":2305.011,"endTime":2308.435,"body":"and she's just starting to learn"},{"startTime":2308.475,"endTime":2312.621,"body":"note taking now. But in the"},{"startTime":2308.475,"endTime":2312.621,"body":"last, like, year or two, they really."},{"startTime":2312.773,"endTime":2315.573,"body":"You use drawings a lot to"},{"startTime":2312.773,"endTime":2315.573,"body":"support your writing because you"},{"startTime":2315.589,"endTime":2320.045,"body":"don't know how to write yet."},{"startTime":2315.589,"endTime":2320.045,"body":"But then there's this hard transition,"},{"startTime":2320.125,"endTime":2323.605,"body":"at least for me, what I've"},{"startTime":2320.125,"endTime":2323.605,"body":"experienced with my kids so far that"},{"startTime":2323.645,"endTime":2326.621,"body":"no, no, get rid of the"},{"startTime":2323.645,"endTime":2326.621,"body":"drawings. You're only going to write"},{"startTime":2326.693,"endTime":2331.525,"body":"now. So if we can, around that"},{"startTime":2326.693,"endTime":2331.525,"body":"age where they're starting to learn"},{"startTime":2331.565,"endTime":2334.677,"body":"note taking and before they"},{"startTime":2331.565,"endTime":2334.677,"body":"totally take out drawing. Because"},{"startTime":2334.701,"endTime":2337.971,"body":"then when you start to take"},{"startTime":2334.701,"endTime":2337.971,"body":"out drawing and you're learning,"},{"startTime":2338.133,"endTime":2341.119,"body":"then that's when students"},{"startTime":2338.133,"endTime":2341.119,"body":"start to go, well, I can't draw."},{"startTime":2341.167,"endTime":2344.375,"body":"And I'm like, but you could,"},{"startTime":2341.167,"endTime":2344.375,"body":"though. You just weren't Given the"},{"startTime":2344.415,"endTime":2347.583,"body":"opportunities anymore to do it"},{"startTime":2344.415,"endTime":2347.583,"body":"in a way that will support your learning"},{"startTime":2347.639,"endTime":2352.951,"body":"or your writing or what have"},{"startTime":2347.639,"endTime":2352.951,"body":"you, right? So if we can say you"},{"startTime":2352.983,"endTime":2357.495,"body":"could take notes in just"},{"startTime":2352.983,"endTime":2357.495,"body":"words, and that's fine if that supports"},{"startTime":2357.575,"endTime":2360.575,"body":"the way that you want to do"},{"startTime":2357.575,"endTime":2360.575,"body":"it. But you could also do it with"},{"startTime":2360.615,"endTime":2364.127,"body":"words and pictures. Because"},{"startTime":2360.615,"endTime":2364.127,"body":"the thing with sketchnoting and this"},{"startTime":2364.151,"endTime":2368.715,"body":"type of work, the words are"},{"startTime":2364.151,"endTime":2368.715,"body":"still very important, right. It's"},{"startTime":2368.755,"endTime":2372.555,"body":"not common that you're going"},{"startTime":2368.755,"endTime":2372.555,"body":"to have a whole drawing that's just"},{"startTime":2372.635,"endTime":2377.467,"body":"drawings and no words. Like"},{"startTime":2372.635,"endTime":2377.467,"body":"the information and the content is"},{"startTime":2377.531,"endTime":2381.843,"body":"still wildly important. And"},{"startTime":2377.531,"endTime":2381.843,"body":"you can create a beautiful sketchnote"},{"startTime":2381.859,"endTime":2385.539,"body":"without even drawings, but"},{"startTime":2381.859,"endTime":2385.539,"body":"just using like boxes and lines and"},{"startTime":2385.707,"endTime":2388.739,"body":"things like that and color to"},{"startTime":2385.707,"endTime":2388.739,"body":"kind of bring it to life without"},{"startTime":2388.827,"endTime":2393.275,"body":"even like icons or anything."},{"startTime":2388.827,"endTime":2393.275,"body":"Right. So anyways, backing up five"},{"startTime":2393.315,"endTime":2396.283,"body":"steps, steps, that is"},{"startTime":2393.315,"endTime":2396.283,"body":"something that I sort of have a vision"},{"startTime":2396.339,"endTime":2401.755,"body":"for, moving forward is like,"},{"startTime":2396.339,"endTime":2401.755,"body":"how can we infiltrate a little bit"},{"startTime":2401.835,"endTime":2407.051,"body":"of and get some teacher"},{"startTime":2401.835,"endTime":2407.051,"body":"advocates on board to get them comfortable?"},{"startTime":2407.083,"endTime":2409.331,"body":"Because what I'm experienced"},{"startTime":2407.083,"endTime":2409.331,"body":"with some teachers I'm working with"},{"startTime":2409.403,"endTime":2412.987,"body":"currently to kind of build up"},{"startTime":2409.403,"endTime":2412.987,"body":"some case studies is the teachers"},{"startTime":2413.051,"endTime":2417.275,"body":"have to get comfortable with"},{"startTime":2413.051,"endTime":2417.275,"body":"bad drawing. I have a teacher friend,"},{"startTime":2417.315,"endTime":2420.555,"body":"and luckily she's like, she"},{"startTime":2417.315,"endTime":2420.555,"body":"gets it. She's like, I'm just going"},{"startTime":2420.555,"endTime":2424.571,"body":"to draw a bad drawing and then"},{"startTime":2420.555,"endTime":2424.571,"body":"the kids will go, oh, well, she drew"},{"startTime":2424.603,"endTime":2428.979,"body":"a quote, unquote, bad drawing."},{"startTime":2424.603,"endTime":2428.979,"body":"So I can draw badly too. Even just"},{"startTime":2429.027,"endTime":2432.371,"body":"getting teachers comfortable"},{"startTime":2429.027,"endTime":2432.371,"body":"with drawing because you don't want"},{"startTime":2432.403,"endTime":2436.403,"body":"them to almost get too good at"},{"startTime":2432.403,"endTime":2436.403,"body":"it before they start teaching it"},{"startTime":2436.419,"endTime":2439.787,"body":"to their students, because"},{"startTime":2436.419,"endTime":2439.787,"body":"then their drawings are going to"},{"startTime":2439.811,"endTime":2443.147,"body":"be really beautiful and then"},{"startTime":2439.811,"endTime":2443.147,"body":"the students are going to go, well,"},{"startTime":2443.171,"endTime":2446.091,"body":"I can't do it because my"},{"startTime":2443.171,"endTime":2446.091,"body":"drawings aren't as nice. So you almost"},{"startTime":2446.163,"endTime":2451.517,"body":"want to embrace the messiness"},{"startTime":2446.163,"endTime":2451.517,"body":"and the ugliness of drawings when"},{"startTime":2451.541,"endTime":2454.261,"body":"you're starting. And there's."},{"startTime":2451.541,"endTime":2454.261,"body":"That's a lot of vulnerability to"},{"startTime":2454.293,"endTime":2458.069,"body":"get teachers to do that."},{"startTime":2454.293,"endTime":2458.069,"body":"Anyways, my vision sort of moving"},{"startTime":2458.117,"endTime":2461.445,"body":"forward in the next little"},{"startTime":2458.117,"endTime":2461.445,"body":"while is what would this look like"},{"startTime":2461.485,"endTime":2466.069,"body":"to get it into the hands of"},{"startTime":2461.485,"endTime":2466.069,"body":"teachers, of students, and what can,"},{"startTime":2466.157,"endTime":2470.797,"body":"you know, I do to kind of"},{"startTime":2466.157,"endTime":2470.797,"body":"support them and how can I be a bridge"},{"startTime":2470.861,"endTime":2473.805,"body":"to connect them to other"},{"startTime":2470.861,"endTime":2473.805,"body":"teachers doing it? So I'm putting"},{"startTime":2473.845,"endTime":2477.803,"body":"together a little like virtual"},{"startTime":2473.845,"endTime":2477.803,"body":"free summit for teachers and schools."},{"startTime":2477.979,"endTime":2480.579,"body":"And it's going to be very"},{"startTime":2477.979,"endTime":2480.579,"body":"important for me to get other teachers"},{"startTime":2480.627,"endTime":2485.787,"body":"to come and speak and tell how"},{"startTime":2480.627,"endTime":2485.787,"body":"they use it in their classrooms so"},{"startTime":2485.811,"endTime":2490.475,"body":"that it gives them practical"},{"startTime":2485.811,"endTime":2490.475,"body":"examples of how they're actually"},{"startTime":2490.555,"endTime":2495.363,"body":"doing it. Examples of students"},{"startTime":2490.555,"endTime":2495.363,"body":"work. It's just a matter of teachers"},{"startTime":2495.419,"endTime":2499.291,"body":"giving kids permission to"},{"startTime":2495.419,"endTime":2499.291,"body":"capture in this way and not getting"},{"startTime":2499.323,"endTime":2504.585,"body":"in trouble for doodling in the"},{"startTime":2499.323,"endTime":2504.585,"body":"classroom. And teachers incorporated"},{"startTime":2504.705,"endTime":2508.345,"body":"into their lesson plans as"},{"startTime":2504.705,"endTime":2508.345,"body":"part of their practical learning."},{"startTime":2508.505,"endTime":2512.609,"body":"Right now I'm looking for"},{"startTime":2508.505,"endTime":2512.609,"body":"advocates, teachers who are going"},{"startTime":2512.617,"endTime":2516.561,"body":"to also help me spread the"},{"startTime":2512.617,"endTime":2516.561,"body":"word about this to make it affordable,"},{"startTime":2516.633,"endTime":2521.649,"body":"to make it mainstream. Right."},{"startTime":2516.633,"endTime":2521.649,"body":"I really need to get other teachers"},{"startTime":2521.697,"endTime":2524.585,"body":"on board who are really"},{"startTime":2521.697,"endTime":2524.585,"body":"excited about it and help spread"},{"startTime":2524.625,"endTime":2525.737,"body":"the word. Right?"},{"startTime":2525.881,"endTime":2530.073,"body":"Yeah, yeah. No, brilliant."},{"startTime":2525.881,"endTime":2530.073,"body":"Very much. Good luck with that. How"},{"startTime":2530.129,"endTime":2531.701,"body":"can people connect with you?"},{"startTime":2531.873,"endTime":2536.717,"body":"Yeah. So sketchnote School is"},{"startTime":2531.873,"endTime":2536.717,"body":"kind of where you can find me everywhere."},{"startTime":2536.781,"endTime":2540.101,"body":"Sketchnote School on"},{"startTime":2536.781,"endTime":2540.101,"body":"Instagram. Instagram's kind of the"},{"startTime":2540.133,"endTime":2543.653,"body":"place I hang out the most"},{"startTime":2540.133,"endTime":2543.653,"body":"these days, so that's a good place"},{"startTime":2543.709,"endTime":2550.077,"body":"to find me. Sketchnote School"},{"startTime":2543.709,"endTime":2550.077,"body":"is my website. Sketchnote School"},{"startTime":2550.141,"endTime":2553.733,"body":"on YouTube. Kind of sketchnote"},{"startTime":2550.141,"endTime":2553.733,"body":"school everywhere. If you're kind"},{"startTime":2553.749,"endTime":2556.749,"body":"of curious about my"},{"startTime":2553.749,"endTime":2556.749,"body":"professional work as like a graphic"},{"startTime":2556.797,"endTime":2562.805,"body":"facilitator, my parent company"},{"startTime":2556.797,"endTime":2562.805,"body":"is Mind's Eye Creative. So mindseyecreative,"},{"startTime":2562.885,"endTime":2566.493,"body":"ca anything. Mind's Eye"},{"startTime":2562.885,"endTime":2566.493,"body":"Creative. Is that that world? Yeah."},{"startTime":2566.589,"endTime":2567.077,"body":"Perfect."},{"startTime":2567.181,"endTime":2569.661,"body":"Thank you so much for chatting"},{"startTime":2567.181,"endTime":2569.661,"body":"with me today."},{"startTime":2569.853,"endTime":2573.141,"body":"Yeah, no problem. It was like"},{"startTime":2569.853,"endTime":2573.141,"body":"such a great opportunity and thanks"},{"startTime":2573.173,"endTime":2574.957,"body":"for it, Claire. I really"},{"startTime":2573.173,"endTime":2574.957,"body":"appreciate it."},{"startTime":2575.021,"endTime":2576.305,"body":"You're very welcome."},{"startTime":2576.845,"endTime":2580.381,"body":"Thanks so much for listening"},{"startTime":2576.845,"endTime":2580.381,"body":"to Creativity Found. I hope you enjoyed"},{"startTime":2580.413,"endTime":2584.071,"body":"this episode and gained some"},{"startTime":2580.413,"endTime":2584.071,"body":"value from it. If if you did, perhaps"},{"startTime":2584.103,"endTime":2587.815,"body":"you'd like to contribute a"},{"startTime":2584.103,"endTime":2587.815,"body":"small monetary sign of appreciation"},{"startTime":2587.935,"endTime":2591.935,"body":"either by becoming a regular"},{"startTime":2587.935,"endTime":2591.935,"body":"supporter from as little as $3 per"},{"startTime":2591.975,"endTime":2595.639,"body":"month using the link in the"},{"startTime":2591.975,"endTime":2595.639,"body":"show notes, or if you're listening"},{"startTime":2595.687,"endTime":2600.231,"body":"on a value for value enabled"},{"startTime":2595.687,"endTime":2600.231,"body":"app such as Fountain, TrueFans or"},{"startTime":2600.263,"endTime":2605.359,"body":"Podverse, feel free to send a"},{"startTime":2600.263,"endTime":2605.359,"body":"few sats my way. I also occasionally"},{"startTime":2605.407,"endTime":2608.967,"body":"promote products that I"},{"startTime":2605.407,"endTime":2608.967,"body":"personally use, so please use the"},{"startTime":2608.991,"endTime":2612.415,"body":"affiliate link where relevant"},{"startTime":2608.991,"endTime":2612.415,"body":"if you are buying from those fine"},{"startTime":2612.495,"endTime":2615.375,"body":"companies. Thanks so much, I"},{"startTime":2612.495,"endTime":2615.375,"body":"really appreciate it."}]}