{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":8.394,"endTime":11.756,"body":"And it rapidly dawned on me that it was a terrible idea. I wasn't"},{"startTime":11.816,"endTime":15.458,"body":"happy. A lot of the time I just felt I was being paid to have arguments"},{"startTime":15.518,"endTime":19.219,"body":"for people. So in so much as I had a plan, it"},{"startTime":19.26,"endTime":22.421,"body":"wasn't a very good one. I need to think about what I"},{"startTime":22.481,"endTime":25.963,"body":"want to do. Do I still want to do at the age of 45 what I decided"},{"startTime":25.983,"endTime":29.285,"body":"to embark upon at the age of 25? And the answer really"},{"startTime":29.325,"endTime":33.327,"body":"was that I wanted to do something more creative. I"},{"startTime":33.367,"endTime":36.53,"body":"found that the creativity was a way to kind of"},{"startTime":36.73,"endTime":40.212,"body":"refill my cup, if you like. It's a kind of occupational therapy,"},{"startTime":40.272,"endTime":43.635,"body":"really, and lots of artists talk about how art plays that"},{"startTime":43.675,"endTime":46.837,"body":"role for them. I've used that to help me come to"},{"startTime":46.877,"endTime":50.24,"body":"terms with the grief. It doesn't take the grief away by any means, I"},{"startTime":50.28,"endTime":53.663,"body":"can tell you that, but it's sort of helped me put a shape to"},{"startTime":53.723,"endTime":56.905,"body":"it. It's a very delicate thing for me, my"},{"startTime":57.045,"endTime":60.588,"body":"art, and I want to hold it very carefully. It's quite fragile."},{"startTime":61.843,"endTime":65.447,"body":"Hi, I'm Claire, founder of Creativity Found, a"},{"startTime":65.507,"endTime":69.411,"body":"community for creative learners and educators, connecting adults"},{"startTime":69.551,"endTime":72.714,"body":"who want to find a creative outlet with the artists and"},{"startTime":72.754,"endTime":76.278,"body":"crafters who can help them do so with workshops, courses,"},{"startTime":76.778,"endTime":80.062,"body":"online events and kits. For this podcast, I"},{"startTime":80.122,"endTime":83.906,"body":"chat with people who have found or re-found their creativity"},{"startTime":84.146,"endTime":87.888,"body":"as adults. We'll explore their childhood experiences of"},{"startTime":87.948,"endTime":91.648,"body":"the arts, discuss how they came to the artistic practices they"},{"startTime":91.708,"endTime":95.549,"body":"now love, and consider the barriers they may have experienced between"},{"startTime":95.589,"endTime":98.99,"body":"the two. We'll also explore what it is that people"},{"startTime":99.07,"endTime":103.411,"body":"value and gain from their newfound artistic pursuits, and"},{"startTime":103.511,"endTime":107.192,"body":"how their creative lives enrich their practical, necessary,"},{"startTime":107.612,"endTime":110.843,"body":"everyday lives. For this episode, I'm"},{"startTime":110.923,"endTime":114.167,"body":"chatting with Mark Clay. Hello, Mark. How are you?"},{"startTime":114.187,"endTime":117.531,"body":"Hello, Claire. I'm very well. Thanks so much for inviting me"},{"startTime":118.793,"endTime":122.235,"body":"You're very welcome. Start by telling me how"},{"startTime":122.355,"endTime":125.858,"body":"you tap into your creativity currently."},{"startTime":126.198,"endTime":129.921,"body":"Well, I am 54 years old. I've been an artist for"},{"startTime":130.141,"endTime":133.223,"body":"about 10 years. I live in Oxford with my wife and"},{"startTime":133.263,"endTime":137.125,"body":"my two very talented creative daughters and my very talented creative"},{"startTime":137.185,"endTime":140.348,"body":"wife and I do all sorts of things as an artist. I'm"},{"startTime":140.408,"endTime":144.19,"body":"primarily a drawing artist but I do sculpture and textile things."},{"startTime":144.39,"endTime":147.813,"body":"I help to run the bobbly life drawing group i'm"},{"startTime":147.853,"endTime":151.715,"body":"a member of the oxford art society and i help to organize exhibitions"},{"startTime":151.755,"endTime":155.078,"body":"there i'm also a member of a group of artistic colleagues"},{"startTime":155.138,"endTime":158.54,"body":"and friends called portable. And the other aspects of"},{"startTime":158.58,"endTime":162.042,"body":"my creative life is nothing to do really with with art although"},{"startTime":162.062,"endTime":165.365,"body":"it does inspire is i'm also a volunteer on the hinksey heights nature trail"},{"startTime":165.405,"endTime":168.987,"body":"which is just outside oxford so there are many strings to my artistic"},{"startTime":170.739,"endTime":174.541,"body":"Brilliant. That's all very community-minded. It's"},{"startTime":174.601,"endTime":178.242,"body":"not just the drawing, it's actually taking part in the art community and"},{"startTime":178.262,"endTime":181.924,"body":"then in the nature community. Brilliant. Tell"},{"startTime":181.964,"endTime":186.005,"body":"me, when you were younger, what were your creative experiences"},{"startTime":188.026,"endTime":191.408,"body":"At school, I was primarily interested in"},{"startTime":191.448,"endTime":194.737,"body":"the performing arts. so i did music a"},{"startTime":194.817,"endTime":198.041,"body":"lot of music as a child and through to my university years i played the"},{"startTime":198.061,"endTime":201.325,"body":"clarinet and i learned the piano and i"},{"startTime":201.345,"endTime":204.529,"body":"was in orchestras and bands i did school reviews and"},{"startTime":204.589,"endTime":207.853,"body":"plays i was in a boys grammar school so my voice broke very"},{"startTime":207.933,"endTime":211.955,"body":"late and slowly so i attempted to get a lot of the girl parts So"},{"startTime":211.995,"endTime":215.117,"body":"it was really performing arts that I was interested in"},{"startTime":215.157,"endTime":218.559,"body":"then. I was quite a shy boy, so"},{"startTime":218.679,"endTime":221.76,"body":"doing things like that really helped me come out of"},{"startTime":221.8,"endTime":225.462,"body":"my shell a bit as I got into my teenage years and beyond."},{"startTime":226.323,"endTime":229.704,"body":"By the time I went to university, which I did in Leeds and"},{"startTime":229.764,"endTime":233.006,"body":"studied English, I was doing musical things pretty"},{"startTime":233.026,"endTime":236.168,"body":"much every night, playing in wind bands, orchestras, singing in"},{"startTime":236.228,"endTime":239.349,"body":"choirs. I was in a German umpire band for"},{"startTime":239.389,"endTime":243.041,"body":"a short time. I've always enjoyed the community aspect"},{"startTime":244.882,"endTime":248.104,"body":"Yeah, that's becoming more and more apparent. You said"},{"startTime":248.185,"endTime":251.567,"body":"you studied English at university. Did"},{"startTime":254.877,"endTime":257.96,"body":"Not really. I didn't really know what I wanted to"},{"startTime":258.02,"endTime":261.302,"body":"be. All I knew was that I enjoyed English. I"},{"startTime":261.362,"endTime":264.665,"body":"enjoyed literature and reading. I still do. And"},{"startTime":264.765,"endTime":268.268,"body":"I enjoyed the sort of the analysis and the debate and the things around that"},{"startTime":268.328,"endTime":271.751,"body":"as well. After university, I went to"},{"startTime":272.051,"endTime":275.354,"body":"law school for two years and I was halfway through what was called"},{"startTime":275.574,"endTime":278.917,"body":"article clerkship in those days. I was about a year away"},{"startTime":278.997,"endTime":282.688,"body":"from qualifying to be a solicitor. And it rapidly dawned"},{"startTime":282.728,"endTime":286.31,"body":"on me that it was a terrible idea i wasn't happy it didn't"},{"startTime":286.37,"endTime":289.631,"body":"give me any sort of creative. You know i"},{"startTime":290.051,"endTime":294.352,"body":"love the time i just felt i was being paid to have arguments for people. So"},{"startTime":294.532,"endTime":297.753,"body":"in so much as i had a plan it wasn't a very good one"},{"startTime":297.953,"endTime":301.534,"body":"so after after a year of my two year article clark"},{"startTime":301.574,"endTime":304.855,"body":"ship i went off and did something completely different. I"},{"startTime":304.955,"endTime":308.357,"body":"joined opera north the opera company based in legion yorkshire"},{"startTime":308.377,"endTime":312.299,"body":"which is where i was living again as an entry level fundraiser and"},{"startTime":312.319,"endTime":315.741,"body":"i ended up doing that for twenty five years not entirely opera north"},{"startTime":316.021,"endTime":319.102,"body":"but that became my career so i had two bites of"},{"startTime":319.142,"endTime":322.244,"body":"the cherry and i'm happy to say that the second bite of the"},{"startTime":322.304,"endTime":325.646,"body":"cherry was much more to my taste in the first bite"},{"startTime":327.078,"endTime":330.782,"body":"lasted a bit longer. Do you remember why"},{"startTime":335.128,"endTime":338.891,"body":"Yeah, I enjoyed studying law as an academic subject,"},{"startTime":339.151,"endTime":342.353,"body":"debating the ins and outs of cases and how laws are applied in"},{"startTime":342.393,"endTime":345.875,"body":"particular circumstances and so on. I enjoyed that"},{"startTime":345.975,"endTime":349.157,"body":"aspect. I was quite an academic young man. But in"},{"startTime":349.197,"endTime":352.339,"body":"terms of practicing it as a job, as a business, it's"},{"startTime":352.359,"endTime":355.521,"body":"a business. I was working for a firm that was representing a"},{"startTime":355.601,"endTime":359.384,"body":"company that was suing another company for compensation for"},{"startTime":359.444,"endTime":363.816,"body":"the supply of £8 million worth of faulty bottle tops. I"},{"startTime":363.856,"endTime":366.998,"body":"remember sitting in this meeting and i was just sitting in the corner i was a"},{"startTime":367.118,"endTime":371.221,"body":"minion taking notes for the people who were doing the negotiations and"},{"startTime":371.241,"endTime":374.443,"body":"they know they were getting really cross about these bottle tops you"},{"startTime":374.463,"endTime":378.083,"body":"know it's a lot of money eight million pounds and i remember sitting there thinking, I"},{"startTime":378.123,"endTime":381.745,"body":"don't want to do this for the rest of my life. This is bonkers."},{"startTime":382.165,"endTime":385.627,"body":"So I ran away to join the opera. I wanted to do something"},{"startTime":385.667,"endTime":389.169,"body":"that meant more to me personally than arguing about somebody's bottle"},{"startTime":389.21,"endTime":392.651,"body":"tops. And I really landed on my feet with that job. I"},{"startTime":392.691,"endTime":396.053,"body":"love opera. I love music. I've been a music fan for far longer"},{"startTime":397.634,"endTime":400.891,"body":"And what does What does working in"},{"startTime":401.071,"endTime":404.414,"body":"fundraising actually mean? So like"},{"startTime":404.554,"endTime":407.736,"body":"how did you start? What were you doing when you started and how"},{"startTime":409.818,"endTime":413.06,"body":"Well I've always worked largely for either for"},{"startTime":413.101,"endTime":416.763,"body":"higher education or for registered charities. So registered charities"},{"startTime":416.803,"endTime":420.126,"body":"for example will be looking to boost their income so"},{"startTime":420.146,"endTime":423.368,"body":"they can do their charitable work whatever that might be. So you"},{"startTime":423.388,"endTime":426.851,"body":"know arts organisations are charities as well. So I was helping Opera North"},{"startTime":427.051,"endTime":430.333,"body":"raise the money Did it needed every year to put on the"},{"startTime":430.393,"endTime":434.275,"body":"opera's in the concerts in the education programs and it did so"},{"startTime":434.475,"endTime":437.837,"body":"for us there it meant selling things like"},{"startTime":437.877,"endTime":441.079,"body":"corporate entertainment packages applying to travel trust for"},{"startTime":441.139,"endTime":444.86,"body":"funding for education projects asking individuals for donations"},{"startTime":445.281,"endTime":448.903,"body":"in one way or another or at all different sizes and"},{"startTime":448.963,"endTime":452.704,"body":"at the heart of all of that. Is building relationships with"},{"startTime":452.764,"endTime":455.946,"body":"people you're building relationships with people on behalf of"},{"startTime":456.006,"endTime":459.122,"body":"your chosen employer cause. Help you"},{"startTime":459.142,"endTime":462.765,"body":"know help them feel like they're part of it and to help them feel that they're doing something"},{"startTime":462.845,"endTime":466.069,"body":"to support that charity that means something to me one way"},{"startTime":466.109,"endTime":469.712,"body":"or another. And that's what i did when you first started"},{"startTime":469.912,"endTime":473.696,"body":"the entry level you're doing all sorts of things you're learning all different ways of doing fundraising"},{"startTime":474.016,"endTime":477.24,"body":"and it is quite a creative. Job which"},{"startTime":477.3,"endTime":480.711,"body":"is probably why i stuck with it so for so long. But as"},{"startTime":480.731,"endTime":484.217,"body":"you progress through your fundraising career you"},{"startTime":484.257,"endTime":487.864,"body":"start to specialize in different forms of fundraising and"},{"startTime":487.884,"endTime":491.29,"body":"that's what i did so after i was at opera north i went to london to"},{"startTime":491.35,"endTime":494.459,"body":"work for a couple of major young people's charities. And"},{"startTime":494.499,"endTime":497.881,"body":"then i met my wife and got married and we moved to oxford so"},{"startTime":497.961,"endTime":501.604,"body":"i worked helping oxford brooks university do fundraising for"},{"startTime":501.624,"endTime":504.686,"body":"a few years and then i moved to join oxford university where i"},{"startTime":504.726,"endTime":508.869,"body":"worked for the best part of eight years after that i was head of fundraising for"},{"startTime":509.169,"endTime":512.751,"body":"a charity in alesbury and wendover called pace."},{"startTime":513.632,"endTime":516.934,"body":"Wonderful charity and. Buy this point"},{"startTime":517.054,"endTime":520.758,"body":"i was in my mid forties and i was responsible for teams raising"},{"startTime":521.659,"endTime":525.242,"body":"millions of pounds worth of money a year, managing people"},{"startTime":525.342,"endTime":528.466,"body":"managing relationships and all that kind of thing so i done the"},{"startTime":528.506,"endTime":531.672,"body":"conventional career thing. I'd work my way up, you"},{"startTime":531.692,"endTime":535.076,"body":"know, I was going grey, I was getting older, I was working every"},{"startTime":535.136,"endTime":538.34,"body":"hour that God sent me. And that three years of pace was in"},{"startTime":538.46,"endTime":541.684,"body":"many respects the best job I've ever had in terms of"},{"startTime":541.744,"endTime":545.388,"body":"what I was doing and what I was able to achieve for an amazing charity"},{"startTime":545.448,"endTime":549.113,"body":"working with kids with cerebral palsy and neurological conditions."},{"startTime":550.098,"endTime":553.804,"body":"But by that point, I've been doing it for a long time. I was starting"},{"startTime":553.824,"endTime":556.988,"body":"to feel a kind of certain repetitiveness about it. So at"},{"startTime":557.028,"endTime":561.375,"body":"this point, I was in my mid 40s. I was 44, 45. And"},{"startTime":561.895,"endTime":564.98,"body":"people sometimes call it a midlife crisis. That's quite a"},{"startTime":565.02,"endTime":568.502,"body":"negative way to describe it. And i should mention it is quite difficult"},{"startTime":568.522,"endTime":572.063,"body":"for some people but actually i felt like it was a really important and valuable thing"},{"startTime":572.103,"endTime":575.344,"body":"to have in my life news at that point that i sat down and said"},{"startTime":575.364,"endTime":578.525,"body":"to myself what i need to, i need to think about what i want to do"},{"startTime":578.605,"endTime":582.006,"body":"do i still want to do at the age of forty five what i decided to embark"},{"startTime":582.066,"endTime":585.367,"body":"upon at the age of twenty five. And the answer really was"},{"startTime":585.387,"endTime":588.687,"body":"that i wanted to do something more creative that's ten"},{"startTime":588.707,"endTime":591.948,"body":"years ago now more or less and that's that's the part that leads"},{"startTime":595.675,"endTime":599.178,"body":"Just a shout out for Aylesbury and Wendover there. I was just talking"},{"startTime":599.339,"endTime":602.782,"body":"with Mark before I pressed record and we're both in Oxford now"},{"startTime":602.802,"endTime":607.833,"body":"but I went to school in Aylesbury and lived in Wendover. But"},{"startTime":608.073,"endTime":611.375,"body":"going back then, is this the point that you"},{"startTime":611.495,"endTime":614.857,"body":"pick up a pencil? Was there another point that you picked up"},{"startTime":614.897,"endTime":618.659,"body":"a pencil and it fed into this midlife"},{"startTime":618.919,"endTime":622.201,"body":"change? Tell me a bit about how that all"},{"startTime":625.282,"endTime":628.604,"body":"Yeah, I didn't study art at school at all, the visual arts"},{"startTime":628.664,"endTime":632.386,"body":"at all. The art teacher at my school, very unlikely,"},{"startTime":633.088,"endTime":636.429,"body":"if you still with us that he would remember me in the slightest but"},{"startTime":636.51,"endTime":640.251,"body":"i did do a level because that's how old i am in"},{"startTime":640.411,"endTime":644.193,"body":"graphical communication which was essentially technical drawing"},{"startTime":644.393,"endTime":647.674,"body":"with a little bit of graphic design in it as well i don't remember the"},{"startTime":647.894,"endTime":651.096,"body":"term being used back in those days. I did my own"},{"startTime":651.116,"endTime":654.397,"body":"levels in nineteen eighty six which is a terrifying thought and"},{"startTime":654.537,"endTime":657.978,"body":"i wanted to be an architect for a little while. One of my other teacher"},{"startTime":657.998,"endTime":661.144,"body":"said to me you haven't got the math. I never was very good at"},{"startTime":661.164,"endTime":664.585,"body":"math so i didn't go down that route in the end but"},{"startTime":664.705,"endTime":669.367,"body":"i did really enjoy doing graphical communication. So"},{"startTime":669.427,"endTime":672.649,"body":"i knew i could draw but i never did"},{"startTime":672.829,"endTime":676.85,"body":"anything with it you know until what thirty years later. Pop"},{"startTime":676.87,"endTime":679.992,"body":"from the old game of pictionary where i fancy myself as a bit of a"},{"startTime":680.032,"endTime":683.273,"body":"player i didn't do any drawing but i sort of"},{"startTime":683.313,"endTime":686.458,"body":"knew i had this potential so. There was"},{"startTime":686.498,"endTime":689.841,"body":"this little seed that was in me from a long time ago"},{"startTime":689.901,"endTime":693.323,"body":"that i'd not really looked at me not when i was going through my life"},{"startTime":693.423,"endTime":696.585,"body":"review if we want to call it that i was thinking about doing all sorts of things i"},{"startTime":696.605,"endTime":700.268,"body":"thought i might be a writer. Because of my english background"},{"startTime":700.788,"endTime":704.01,"body":"dabbled with that not very successfully i thought about taking up"},{"startTime":704.05,"endTime":707.412,"body":"the banjo at one point so you can be thankful that i didn't go"},{"startTime":707.453,"endTime":710.815,"body":"down that direction either. So the real thing"},{"startTime":710.875,"endTime":714.677,"body":"that set the drawing and art hair running was having children. My"},{"startTime":714.717,"endTime":718.28,"body":"two daughters and rose loved as all kids do"},{"startTime":718.94,"endTime":722.082,"body":"rt crafty making sort of things you know they have"},{"startTime":722.122,"endTime":725.884,"body":"this real joy and enthusiasm at that age we all do that"},{"startTime":725.924,"endTime":729.267,"body":"sort of thing and it's the sort of things you do with your kids when they're really"},{"startTime":729.307,"endTime":732.729,"body":"young so at the start of it i was just helping to"},{"startTime":732.969,"endTime":736.591,"body":"facilitate them. Jump modeling drawing silly pictures"},{"startTime":737.072,"endTime":740.474,"body":"sticking things together that sort of thing. I'm getting pleasure from"},{"startTime":740.515,"endTime":744.356,"body":"that pleasure but then as i was getting into it and realizing until"},{"startTime":744.396,"endTime":747.698,"body":"helping them to explore their artistic enthusiasm i"},{"startTime":747.838,"endTime":750.98,"body":"suddenly realized at some point it was. It was"},{"startTime":751.0,"endTime":754.201,"body":"good for me as well. So this is the point of which i"},{"startTime":754.241,"endTime":757.863,"body":"was the head of fundraising and you know working really hard"},{"startTime":758.363,"endTime":761.525,"body":"a bit stressed out feeling a bit tired feeling i was"},{"startTime":761.605,"endTime":765.656,"body":"over extending myself and i needed to do something for me. So"},{"startTime":765.676,"endTime":769.137,"body":"a very wise friend of mine, my friend Martin, who I've known since"},{"startTime":769.157,"endTime":772.638,"body":"I was at school, he said to me, you can't pour from an empty cup."},{"startTime":773.639,"endTime":776.96,"body":"And that's how I felt. And I found that the"},{"startTime":777.0,"endTime":780.341,"body":"creativity was a way to kind of refill my cup,"},{"startTime":780.401,"endTime":783.602,"body":"if you like. It's a kind of occupational therapy, really. And"},{"startTime":783.682,"endTime":787.003,"body":"lots of artists talk about how art plays that role for them."},{"startTime":787.043,"endTime":790.284,"body":"Lots of people do, I think. So I decided that it could"},{"startTime":790.304,"endTime":793.931,"body":"be a little gift to myself. So i started drawing"},{"startTime":794.411,"endTime":797.795,"body":"silly pictures to make them laugh i still do they think"},{"startTime":797.835,"endTime":801.099,"body":"my jokes are fairly terrible these days i started doing"},{"startTime":801.179,"endTime":804.523,"body":"things for myself. Yeah i feel sketchbooks with"},{"startTime":804.603,"endTime":808.067,"body":"terrible things that i'm very fond of what i look back now i think mark is"},{"startTime":808.167,"endTime":811.691,"body":"awful. But that's but that's the journey you put yourself"},{"startTime":811.851,"endTime":815.454,"body":"on and it was a gift to me and in the year twenty fifteen"},{"startTime":815.494,"endTime":818.577,"body":"we went on holiday to northern spain and i decided more or"},{"startTime":818.597,"endTime":821.8,"body":"less on a whim that the whole family was going to do some drawing so i went to."},{"startTime":822.321,"endTime":825.904,"body":"The works or something like that i bought some cheap pencils and"},{"startTime":825.964,"endTime":829.067,"body":"notebooks. Set right we're all going to do some drawing on"},{"startTime":829.087,"endTime":832.465,"body":"this holiday and so we did. It sort of fell by"},{"startTime":832.505,"endTime":835.687,"body":"the wayside as we got through the holiday, except for"},{"startTime":835.727,"endTime":839.029,"body":"me. I kept going and I've never really stopped since."},{"startTime":840.15,"endTime":843.812,"body":"The first thing I drew was a yucca plant. I have no idea"},{"startTime":843.892,"endTime":847.014,"body":"why, but it just gave me so much pleasure that I thought I'm"},{"startTime":850.316,"endTime":853.578,"body":"The yucca must have drawn you to it and that's"},{"startTime":856.568,"endTime":859.87,"body":"One of the things I also did before the art caught me to"},{"startTime":859.89,"endTime":863.271,"body":"give myself a break from work was I would go walking with"},{"startTime":863.351,"endTime":866.533,"body":"my friend Martin again in the Lake District. So I love, I"},{"startTime":866.673,"endTime":870.014,"body":"love being outdoors in mountains and hills and all that sort of thing."},{"startTime":870.535,"endTime":873.936,"body":"And I did do quite a lot of drawings of the Lake District in"},{"startTime":873.976,"endTime":877.418,"body":"the early days because it was a way of being there when I couldn't actually be physically"},{"startTime":877.458,"endTime":881.319,"body":"there. Yeah, and I've always enjoyed being outdoors and"},{"startTime":881.339,"endTime":884.62,"body":"the nature trail has inspired me hugely. There's a drawing on"},{"startTime":884.64,"endTime":887.982,"body":"the wall behind me right now, which is inspired by the nature trail."},{"startTime":891.426,"endTime":894.888,"body":"Yeah. And you, and I think having,"},{"startTime":895.028,"endTime":898.41,"body":"from what you said already, this is the academic in you, you"},{"startTime":898.511,"endTime":902.753,"body":"actually took it further, didn't you, within an educational capacity?"},{"startTime":903.994,"endTime":907.436,"body":"So having filled a few sketchbooks with drawings for"},{"startTime":907.456,"endTime":911.179,"body":"a couple of years, the first thing I looked at doing, I did a diploma"},{"startTime":911.259,"endTime":914.401,"body":"in art and design and that was a year's course. So"},{"startTime":914.441,"endTime":918.043,"body":"I left my job, I went part-time as a fundraiser,"},{"startTime":918.79,"endTime":922.334,"body":"It was perfect for me i could cycle there in ten minutes it was one year course"},{"startTime":922.394,"endTime":925.598,"body":"i can have a little go at everything and i thought i'll give it a go this is this is"},{"startTime":925.658,"endTime":928.782,"body":"my gift to me. I'll see what happens you"},{"startTime":928.802,"endTime":932.125,"body":"know maybe i'll i'll scratch the itch and decide that that's me"},{"startTime":932.185,"endTime":935.569,"body":"sorted and done and go back to you know what my pension advisor calls"},{"startTime":935.609,"endTime":938.974,"body":"a proper job. What would i would"},{"startTime":938.994,"endTime":942.338,"body":"it be the beginning of something more on course once i started was never"},{"startTime":942.398,"endTime":945.802,"body":"going to stop. So i done that year loved every minute"},{"startTime":945.842,"endTime":949.246,"body":"of it and then two years later i went to Oxford brooks"},{"startTime":949.286,"endTime":952.59,"body":"university to do the masters in fine art which"},{"startTime":952.61,"endTime":956.614,"body":"i can i did two years part time. I'm quite an obsessive personality,"},{"startTime":956.634,"endTime":959.795,"body":"so if I get into something, I really want to delve into it."},{"startTime":959.895,"endTime":963.376,"body":"This is why I've ended up doing drawings that take me 96 hours,"},{"startTime":963.436,"endTime":966.677,"body":"is because I really enjoy the deep dive. If"},{"startTime":966.737,"endTime":970.038,"body":"I'm passionate about something, I want to know deeply about it."},{"startTime":970.598,"endTime":974.659,"body":"So the MFA, which you get put through the mill intellectually"},{"startTime":975.359,"endTime":978.66,"body":"and technically, and it's really challenging. There are days"},{"startTime":978.7,"endTime":981.98,"body":"when you read a text and you think, I'm never going"},{"startTime":982.0,"endTime":985.077,"body":"to understand this in a million years. i"},{"startTime":985.117,"endTime":988.781,"body":"really enjoyed the challenge of that i came out a very very different"},{"startTime":988.921,"endTime":992.245,"body":"artist still not finished article i mean i don't consider myself a"},{"startTime":992.265,"endTime":995.448,"body":"finished article by any by any means i came out of"},{"startTime":995.488,"endTime":998.711,"body":"the mfa in twenty twenty so we were right in the thick"},{"startTime":998.751,"endTime":1002.555,"body":"of covid we lost our summer show that year because because"},{"startTime":1002.575,"endTime":1006.583,"body":"of covid the university closed down it was all done online But"},{"startTime":1006.603,"endTime":1009.787,"body":"i still had a marvelous experience and i felt still felt hungry and"},{"startTime":1009.807,"endTime":1013.21,"body":"wanted to carry on i carried on doing a bit more fundraising and"},{"startTime":1013.25,"endTime":1016.554,"body":"i ended up doing some consultancy for a couple of years i've taken the"},{"startTime":1016.594,"endTime":1019.677,"body":"decision as an artist that i will work as an"},{"startTime":1019.757,"endTime":1023.327,"body":"artist alongside a part time. job that's"},{"startTime":1023.387,"endTime":1026.469,"body":"the way i decided to balance things that works best for me and"},{"startTime":1026.509,"endTime":1030.15,"body":"works best for my family and certainly best for us in financial terms"},{"startTime":1030.47,"endTime":1034.172,"body":"i have actually stopped fundraising now i'm no longer a professional fundraiser"},{"startTime":1034.232,"endTime":1037.313,"body":"i just i have a i work for a lovely charity in"},{"startTime":1037.393,"endTime":1040.934,"body":"oxford called yellow submarine which works with kids and adults with"},{"startTime":1041.034,"endTime":1044.415,"body":"learning disabilities and autism and i just do administration jobs"},{"startTime":1044.435,"endTime":1047.597,"body":"but i do a little bit of everything there and that gives me a bit"},{"startTime":1047.617,"endTime":1051.274,"body":"of a balance I do occasionally wonder"},{"startTime":1051.314,"endTime":1054.715,"body":"about going full time as an artist, but I love my job so much."},{"startTime":1055.516,"endTime":1059.177,"body":"It's a funny thing, isn't it? There's me thinking that art would be a sort of"},{"startTime":1059.657,"endTime":1062.899,"body":"cure for a career, but now it's different. I found"},{"startTime":1062.939,"endTime":1066.0,"body":"a job that I really love working with people that I really love for a"},{"startTime":1066.06,"endTime":1069.362,"body":"cause that I really am committed to, and my art"},{"startTime":1071.266,"endTime":1074.728,"body":"Yeah, and alongside the volunteering at the nature trail"},{"startTime":1074.748,"endTime":1078.091,"body":"as well, so you get your outside. This sounds mean,"},{"startTime":1078.131,"endTime":1081.393,"body":"but you know I'm not being mean. When you mention working on"},{"startTime":1081.453,"endTime":1084.795,"body":"a piece for 96 hours, I tend to think that making art"},{"startTime":1084.835,"endTime":1090.419,"body":"your full-time job might not be the most lucrative. Tell"},{"startTime":1090.439,"endTime":1094.004,"body":"me about this length"},{"startTime":1094.064,"endTime":1097.906,"body":"of working and how you work"},{"startTime":1099.887,"endTime":1103.309,"body":"I'm a real pencil addict. I"},{"startTime":1103.349,"endTime":1106.511,"body":"love drawing. It'll always be the sort of wellspring of my work. One"},{"startTime":1106.531,"endTime":1111.914,"body":"of my friends calls me the Oxford pencil shortage. When"},{"startTime":1111.934,"endTime":1115.116,"body":"I get the bit between my teeth and I'm working on a drawing, I do get through a lot"},{"startTime":1116.588,"endTime":1119.851,"body":"So when we have no pencils, when we go to the art shop and there's no"},{"startTime":1123.034,"endTime":1126.477,"body":"Mark's working on another one. Yeah,"},{"startTime":1126.577,"endTime":1130.02,"body":"I mean, I find that the way I'm happiest as an artist is"},{"startTime":1130.42,"endTime":1133.663,"body":"slowing down. I've had a tendency in my"},{"startTime":1133.723,"endTime":1137.146,"body":"life to live life at 100 miles an hour. When"},{"startTime":1137.166,"endTime":1140.329,"body":"I was at law school, my colleagues used to call me Dasher because I"},{"startTime":1140.369,"endTime":1143.793,"body":"was always legging it off to something. And I realized that"},{"startTime":1143.953,"endTime":1147.914,"body":"what I really would benefit from was slowing down. When"},{"startTime":1147.934,"endTime":1151.255,"body":"I get myself into the frame of mind where I'm working for that length of time on"},{"startTime":1151.435,"endTime":1154.495,"body":"one drawing, what really pulls me in is the kind of"},{"startTime":1154.575,"endTime":1157.996,"body":"absorbingness and the peacefulness and the silence of it. We"},{"startTime":1158.036,"endTime":1161.156,"body":"live life at 100 miles an hour. We're always dashing on"},{"startTime":1161.196,"endTime":1164.837,"body":"to the next thing, aren't we? And I felt that working in this different"},{"startTime":1164.877,"endTime":1168.698,"body":"way was the best way for me as an artist. And"},{"startTime":1168.738,"endTime":1172.015,"body":"it gives me space to think. When you're drawing for that"},{"startTime":1172.055,"endTime":1175.498,"body":"long i mean i get into my studio and i got some music on in the background and"},{"startTime":1175.518,"endTime":1179.061,"body":"i'm thinking about what i'm doing and i'm learning something about myself"},{"startTime":1179.141,"endTime":1182.944,"body":"as an artist and also as a person as well i'm"},{"startTime":1183.004,"endTime":1187.248,"body":"thinking about the things that are meaningful and important to me. I suppose"},{"startTime":1187.288,"endTime":1190.49,"body":"i'm quite selfish in that sense as an artist i do things"},{"startTime":1190.51,"endTime":1194.233,"body":"that are really really slow and absorbing for"},{"startTime":1194.253,"endTime":1197.821,"body":"me and it keeps me out of trouble and makes me very happy. I"},{"startTime":1197.841,"endTime":1201.662,"body":"mean you're absolutely right to say that being an artist is not necessary"},{"startTime":1201.702,"endTime":1204.983,"body":"a lucrative profession and because i work in the way i do"},{"startTime":1205.123,"endTime":1209.684,"body":"i don't put out huge amounts of work because i can't possibly. Working"},{"startTime":1209.724,"endTime":1213.805,"body":"in that way i do a dozen pieces a year i'm happy. That"},{"startTime":1213.885,"endTime":1217.826,"body":"is my way of being an artist it's kind of very slow and cumulative"},{"startTime":1217.846,"endTime":1221.687,"body":"i can do things quickly if i need to i do do commissions occasionally"},{"startTime":1221.767,"endTime":1225.407,"body":"but i don't chase them. So that's slowing"},{"startTime":1225.447,"endTime":1228.588,"body":"down is really valuable for me. It will"},{"startTime":1228.608,"endTime":1231.952,"body":"be very easy for me to get obsessed about my art as a career in"},{"startTime":1231.992,"endTime":1235.295,"body":"the same way as i got obsessed and overextended in my"},{"startTime":1235.515,"endTime":1238.738,"body":"my working life as a fundraiser i would i often took on more"},{"startTime":1238.759,"endTime":1242.102,"body":"than i should i made myself very tired and very you know very"},{"startTime":1242.142,"endTime":1245.565,"body":"stressed out at times i don't want to do that with my art."},{"startTime":1246.446,"endTime":1249.829,"body":"It's a very. It's a very delicate thing for me, my"},{"startTime":1249.949,"endTime":1253.555,"body":"art, and I want to hold it very carefully. It's quite fragile,"},{"startTime":1253.935,"endTime":1257.2,"body":"I think, and very precious to me. I don't do huge numbers of"},{"startTime":1257.281,"endTime":1260.485,"body":"exhibitions or sales. I do do those things, but I"},{"startTime":1263.942,"endTime":1267.864,"body":"And that's another question actually about feeling ready to."},{"startTime":1267.884,"endTime":1271.366,"body":"I really love the slowing"},{"startTime":1271.426,"endTime":1274.907,"body":"down and everything that surrounds the actual process for"},{"startTime":1274.987,"endTime":1278.369,"body":"you as a person, but can you"},{"startTime":1278.469,"endTime":1281.61,"body":"switch on? Like, can you just go, right, I'm going into the"},{"startTime":1281.67,"endTime":1285.292,"body":"studio. This is my time for doing this. Or do you"},{"startTime":1285.792,"endTime":1289.014,"body":"need to go, I've got the urge. I now need to go and do my draw."},{"startTime":1292.622,"endTime":1295.803,"body":"I'm sure lots of artists have said this to you already, Claire. It's not"},{"startTime":1295.843,"endTime":1299.165,"body":"the kind of thing where you can't just turn on the tap."},{"startTime":1299.265,"endTime":1302.546,"body":"You have to be in the right frame of mind. Because of the way my"},{"startTime":1302.606,"endTime":1305.728,"body":"life is organized and how my art fits into it, I"},{"startTime":1305.768,"endTime":1308.929,"body":"have to make a lot of compromises. I have a lot of obligations to"},{"startTime":1308.989,"endTime":1312.331,"body":"my job and my wife and my children and my friends and to the trail."},{"startTime":1312.631,"endTime":1315.813,"body":"So there's a lot of compromise involved. And yes,"},{"startTime":1315.853,"endTime":1318.994,"body":"there are days when you go into the studio and think, right, I've got a whole Friday to"},{"startTime":1319.034,"endTime":1322.236,"body":"do something amazing. And then within half an hour, you think, actually, I've got"},{"startTime":1322.296,"endTime":1326.459,"body":"nothing today. I'm going to go and mow the lawn. And it's"},{"startTime":1326.939,"endTime":1330.561,"body":"very hard for it to be directed and manageable"},{"startTime":1330.681,"endTime":1333.843,"body":"in that sort of consistent way. And I don't know whether I have any"},{"startTime":1333.983,"endTime":1337.285,"body":"answers for anyone on how to get round to that. But one of the things that has"},{"startTime":1337.445,"endTime":1341.227,"body":"worked for me is because my art relates so personally"},{"startTime":1341.267,"endTime":1344.557,"body":"to aspects of my life, particularly the trail at"},{"startTime":1344.577,"endTime":1347.803,"body":"the moment, but other things as well, I find it"},{"startTime":1347.863,"endTime":1351.07,"body":"means that I'm aware of my art when I'm"},{"startTime":1351.19,"endTime":1354.372,"body":"out doing something else. So if i'm what work with"},{"startTime":1354.412,"endTime":1357.653,"body":"yellow submarine i'm in a session with some of the some of the members there as"},{"startTime":1357.693,"endTime":1360.974,"body":"we call them i'm sometimes thinking about how i could turn this into an art"},{"startTime":1360.994,"endTime":1364.175,"body":"shop workshop for them down the road, if i'm out on"},{"startTime":1364.195,"endTime":1367.816,"body":"the trail i'm always on the alert on the alert and aware of"},{"startTime":1367.936,"endTime":1371.356,"body":"how something i'm doing or something i'm seeing or hearing"},{"startTime":1371.396,"endTime":1375.169,"body":"that day can turn into art. So even"},{"startTime":1375.229,"endTime":1378.391,"body":"if i'm not sitting in my studio trying to squeeze art out"},{"startTime":1378.431,"endTime":1382.352,"body":"of myself as it were i'm aware of the potential for"},{"startTime":1382.512,"endTime":1385.833,"body":"art to come and grab me. When i'm out and about is"},{"startTime":1385.873,"endTime":1389.175,"body":"a lovely phrase isn't there by picasso he said inspiration has"},{"startTime":1389.195,"endTime":1392.383,"body":"to find you working. And I find that"},{"startTime":1392.643,"endTime":1396.385,"body":"if I'm out on the trail, I often think, oh, I"},{"startTime":1396.425,"endTime":1399.566,"body":"could do an artsy thing with that. And I come back from the trail with"},{"startTime":1399.606,"endTime":1402.887,"body":"lumps of wire and bits of old rotting wood. And my wife just rolls"},{"startTime":1402.927,"endTime":1406.208,"body":"her eyes. And six months down the line, I'll either"},{"startTime":1406.228,"endTime":1409.709,"body":"throw it away or turn it into an artwork. So, yeah,"},{"startTime":1409.809,"endTime":1413.15,"body":"being aware of how your art can come to you"},{"startTime":1413.41,"endTime":1417.348,"body":"and being open to that. is the way I find it helps me."},{"startTime":1417.789,"endTime":1420.972,"body":"It helps me to be inspired rather than sitting down and trying to"},{"startTime":1423.494,"endTime":1426.585,"body":"Yeah, yeah, no, I completely understand that. Tell me a"},{"startTime":1429.967,"endTime":1433.229,"body":"So not far from where I live on"},{"startTime":1433.269,"endTime":1437.532,"body":"the edges of Oxford is the Hinksey Heights Nature Trail. And"},{"startTime":1437.952,"endTime":1441.134,"body":"in the Covid lockdown, an appeal came out from the landowners to say we"},{"startTime":1441.174,"endTime":1444.296,"body":"need some help with the boardwalk. We love the fact that people are coming to walk up"},{"startTime":1444.356,"endTime":1447.458,"body":"here during the lockdowns, but"},{"startTime":1447.498,"endTime":1450.923,"body":"it's in a terrible state and we really need to ask for some help. So"},{"startTime":1451.184,"endTime":1454.268,"body":"because i was bored like everyone else and i needed something to get me"},{"startTime":1454.328,"endTime":1458.073,"body":"out of the house and i thought it should be something to do to help people."},{"startTime":1458.794,"endTime":1462.559,"body":"How are you nails in fix a few broken boards on the boardwalk nice"},{"startTime":1462.579,"endTime":1465.903,"body":"and i've been doing it for four years now. And we"},{"startTime":1465.923,"endTime":1469.225,"body":"formed a really brilliant group. It's a lovely place. The"},{"startTime":1469.305,"endTime":1472.547,"body":"nature trail itself is a path that follows up a"},{"startTime":1472.607,"endTime":1475.809,"body":"beautiful valley with a chalk stream in it. And we've"},{"startTime":1475.829,"endTime":1479.511,"body":"been working to rebuild the boardwalk there so that people can continue to"},{"startTime":1479.571,"endTime":1483.173,"body":"enjoy it ever since. And we've got into conservation. We're"},{"startTime":1483.193,"endTime":1486.676,"body":"learning about freshwater habitats from working with the Freshwater"},{"startTime":1486.696,"endTime":1490.138,"body":"Habitats Trust. We're learning about ash dieback disease. We're"},{"startTime":1490.158,"endTime":1494.166,"body":"learning about ecology. We've learned so much. And"},{"startTime":1494.186,"endTime":1497.488,"body":"that's been a wonderful thing and the real the two real big"},{"startTime":1497.528,"endTime":1501.03,"body":"things out of it for me have been being involved with my community and"},{"startTime":1501.07,"endTime":1504.291,"body":"making a lot of really really good friends but also it's"},{"startTime":1504.331,"endTime":1507.813,"body":"inspired my art. I never thought that might happen"},{"startTime":1508.193,"endTime":1511.395,"body":"so i've been making artwork inspired by the place and by the"},{"startTime":1511.455,"endTime":1514.888,"body":"work that we do on at the place. for a good few years now."},{"startTime":1515.409,"endTime":1518.71,"body":"You make your art link up to other bits of your life. It becomes a"},{"startTime":1520.71,"endTime":1524.072,"body":"Yeah. And being open to go and do things as"},{"startTime":1524.132,"endTime":1527.293,"body":"well, to try things like going and fixing the"},{"startTime":1527.333,"endTime":1530.634,"body":"boardwalk. As you say, you think that would have nothing to do with drawing, but"},{"startTime":1530.894,"endTime":1534.515,"body":"it's knock-on effect of things that you do that is"},{"startTime":1534.655,"endTime":1538.376,"body":"quite surprising. I certainly have that experience. myself. I"},{"startTime":1538.416,"endTime":1542.078,"body":"was going to mention completely randomly, but I've noticed"},{"startTime":1542.138,"endTime":1546.22,"body":"recently on a lot of menus in pubs, chalk stream trout"},{"startTime":1546.9,"endTime":1550.102,"body":"is on the menu. I was like, what's a chalk stream? It's"},{"startTime":1550.162,"endTime":1553.483,"body":"a trout that's lived in a chalk stream. I was like, is that a thing? And"},{"startTime":1555.024,"endTime":1558.326,"body":"We don't have trout in the Hinkley"},{"startTime":1558.366,"endTime":1561.826,"body":"Heights stream. but we do have lots of other interesting life."},{"startTime":1562.066,"endTime":1565.648,"body":"From being a guy who was just, you know, happy to hit things with a hammer, I'm"},{"startTime":1565.708,"endTime":1569.21,"body":"now, you know, I'm learning about things like alkaline fens."},{"startTime":1569.631,"endTime":1573.293,"body":"There are only something like 20 hectares of alkaline"},{"startTime":1573.393,"endTime":1577.015,"body":"fen in the whole of the UK, and a lot of it is in Oxfordshire,"},{"startTime":1577.355,"endTime":1581.097,"body":"and it's really, a really rare and precious environment"},{"startTime":1581.117,"endTime":1584.639,"body":"with its own plant life and insect life, and we've got a good few hectares"},{"startTime":1584.659,"endTime":1588.431,"body":"of it up on the trail. So I'm learning about, you know, everything"},{"startTime":1589.171,"endTime":1592.634,"body":"joins up with everything else on the trail, you know. If you dig a hole somewhere,"},{"startTime":1592.674,"endTime":1595.977,"body":"you might drain the fen up the other end, you know, that kind"},{"startTime":1595.997,"endTime":1599.38,"body":"of thing. It's been another incredible bonus in my life."},{"startTime":1600.101,"endTime":1603.564,"body":"The team from the Freshwater Habitats Trust who work there alongside us,"},{"startTime":1603.604,"endTime":1607.327,"body":"who are the guys that really know about alkaline fens, recently found"},{"startTime":1607.387,"endTime":1610.609,"body":"a plant growing there that hasn't been recorded anywhere else in"},{"startTime":1611.499,"endTime":1615.423,"body":"Amazing. Isn't that great? That is. Brilliant."},{"startTime":1616.564,"endTime":1620.247,"body":"It's a matter of time before I'm sitting up there with a raccoon skin"},{"startTime":1624.671,"endTime":1629.756,"body":"Maybe. Maybe it might yet come. It's"},{"startTime":1629.796,"endTime":1632.978,"body":"just a lovely place to be. I wake up on a Thursday morning and I think,"},{"startTime":1633.139,"endTime":1636.422,"body":"great, I'm going up to the trail today to see my mates and build some"},{"startTime":1638.317,"endTime":1641.942,"body":"That is brilliant. How super for you. You've"},{"startTime":1642.043,"endTime":1645.588,"body":"told me before about another"},{"startTime":1645.708,"endTime":1649.954,"body":"aspect of using your art for yourself, for"},{"startTime":1650.054,"endTime":1653.219,"body":"your emotional, mental health. Can you tell us"},{"startTime":1654.702,"endTime":1657.984,"body":"Yeah, I mean, as I said a little while ago, you know, you"},{"startTime":1658.004,"endTime":1661.306,"body":"learn something about yourself. You put your art alongside your"},{"startTime":1661.346,"endTime":1664.748,"body":"life rather than it being a kind of separate sort of floaty thing"},{"startTime":1664.828,"endTime":1668.029,"body":"out there that you do when you're not living life. Another example of"},{"startTime":1668.069,"endTime":1671.431,"body":"that for me would be I lost my dad in January. And so"},{"startTime":1671.511,"endTime":1674.773,"body":"because I've got this ability to express things through art, I've"},{"startTime":1674.993,"endTime":1678.275,"body":"used that to help me come to terms with the grief. It doesn't take the grief"},{"startTime":1678.335,"endTime":1681.797,"body":"away by any means, I can tell you that. But it's sort"},{"startTime":1681.837,"endTime":1685.493,"body":"of helped me put a shape to it. And that's been really helpful"},{"startTime":1685.754,"endTime":1689.095,"body":"for me. And I don't think I'm quite finished working through all"},{"startTime":1689.115,"endTime":1692.316,"body":"that yet. So there may be some more artwork to come. It's"},{"startTime":1692.436,"endTime":1695.557,"body":"not the sort of artwork that I would sell. It"},{"startTime":1695.637,"endTime":1698.938,"body":"couldn't possibly mean anything to anybody in the same way that it means to"},{"startTime":1698.978,"endTime":1702.179,"body":"me. Well, I really value that I've been able to use my art"},{"startTime":1702.219,"endTime":1705.98,"body":"in that way. And I'm really, really proud of the work that I've"},{"startTime":1706.02,"endTime":1709.521,"body":"done on this theme. It's not something somebody would"},{"startTime":1709.561,"endTime":1712.822,"body":"sell, but it's a way of putting your art"},{"startTime":1713.95,"endTime":1717.071,"body":"right alongside your life, rather than it being a sort of thing that"},{"startTime":1717.091,"endTime":1720.932,"body":"you lock yourself away in a nice, cosy studio and produce stuff. And"},{"startTime":1720.972,"endTime":1724.213,"body":"I think almost every artist will say to you that there is"},{"startTime":1724.273,"endTime":1727.774,"body":"something of themselves in their art. Art is invaluable to"},{"startTime":1731.112,"endTime":1734.935,"body":"Yeah, this is what we really love"},{"startTime":1734.995,"endTime":1738.937,"body":"to hear because there are so many benefits"},{"startTime":1739.197,"endTime":1743.06,"body":"surrounding whatever creative outlet"},{"startTime":1743.4,"endTime":1746.642,"body":"people find for themselves and why they find it"},{"startTime":1746.682,"endTime":1750.417,"body":"and how they find it. and how it helps. So that's really"},{"startTime":1751.859,"endTime":1755.041,"body":"It also comes back to the MFA in a funny sort of way"},{"startTime":1755.081,"endTime":1758.404,"body":"because when you're doing the MFA, they don't teach you to do art. They"},{"startTime":1758.424,"endTime":1761.667,"body":"don't say this is how you do it. They don't even ask you about what you're"},{"startTime":1761.687,"endTime":1765.231,"body":"doing. A lot of it is you thinking about why you're doing it. Why"},{"startTime":1765.291,"endTime":1768.954,"body":"are you doing this? Why are you doing that this way? And that"},{"startTime":1768.974,"endTime":1772.397,"body":"can be a really difficult question to answer because sometimes you think, well,"},{"startTime":1772.417,"endTime":1775.799,"body":"I just feel like drawing a picture of a tree. But actually,"},{"startTime":1775.959,"endTime":1779.34,"body":"if you can get to a why, if there is a why that you can find"},{"startTime":1779.38,"endTime":1782.521,"body":"and you can start to focus on it and express it, it makes your"},{"startTime":1782.621,"endTime":1785.841,"body":"art so much deeper. And once you start down that road, I think"},{"startTime":1785.861,"endTime":1789.002,"body":"it's quite hard not to. I"},{"startTime":1789.042,"endTime":1792.303,"body":"did wonder when I first started out my art journey whether I might"},{"startTime":1792.343,"endTime":1795.943,"body":"be an illustrator. And I used to draw rude pictures of Donald Trump"},{"startTime":1796.003,"endTime":1799.144,"body":"and things that made my kids laugh and stuff like that. I still do"},{"startTime":1799.184,"endTime":1802.585,"body":"occasionally. But eventually, I"},{"startTime":1802.625,"endTime":1805.951,"body":"felt like I wanted to go deeper. So when something like losing"},{"startTime":1805.991,"endTime":1809.154,"body":"my dad comes along, actually I feel like I can"},{"startTime":1809.254,"endTime":1812.696,"body":"use my art in that way. If that"},{"startTime":1815.438,"endTime":1818.801,"body":"Yeah, I completely see that. Moving on,"},{"startTime":1818.941,"endTime":1822.864,"body":"what about the future? Do you have plans,"},{"startTime":1825.967,"endTime":1829.249,"body":"As an artist, I want to get better. I want to feel like"},{"startTime":1829.269,"endTime":1832.392,"body":"I'm really fulfilling my potential. That's my main thing. I"},{"startTime":1832.412,"endTime":1835.694,"body":"don't have any really sort of specific objectives. I'd like to"},{"startTime":1835.754,"endTime":1839.117,"body":"exhibit more. I'd like to sell a little bit more than I do. As"},{"startTime":1839.237,"endTime":1842.519,"body":"I get ever closer to retirement age, I may have"},{"startTime":1842.579,"endTime":1846.302,"body":"some time opening up for me to do things like that. I"},{"startTime":1846.342,"endTime":1849.544,"body":"like to be involved with things as an artist, you know,"},{"startTime":1849.584,"endTime":1852.686,"body":"like the portable group or the wonderful artists that I've got to know in"},{"startTime":1852.746,"endTime":1856.455,"body":"Bonn in Germany. those are things i could do more"},{"startTime":1856.595,"endTime":1859.899,"body":"of but i'm what i'm most excited about is the art"},{"startTime":1859.979,"endTime":1864.004,"body":"i'm going to do and for me everything else follows from that so"},{"startTime":1864.024,"endTime":1867.248,"body":"it's a pretty vague plan but i'm content with"},{"startTime":1868.488,"endTime":1872.209,"body":"Fabulous. Thank you so much, Mark. How can people connect"},{"startTime":1872.289,"endTime":1876.029,"body":"with you and see the work you're creating? Thank"},{"startTime":1876.609,"endTime":1883.991,"body":"Well, you can see me on my website, which is www.markrclay.co.uk."},{"startTime":1884.371,"endTime":1887.531,"body":"I'm a terrible one for the Instagram. I'm completely addicted to"},{"startTime":1887.611,"endTime":1891.492,"body":"it. So you can find me on there as mrclayox. You"},{"startTime":1891.532,"endTime":1894.993,"body":"can also find me as part of Portable Collective"},{"startTime":1895.133,"endTime":1898.294,"body":"Ox on Instagram. And you can also see the work that"},{"startTime":1898.314,"endTime":1901.897,"body":"we're doing at Hinksey Heights Nature Trail on Instagram."},{"startTime":1902.617,"endTime":1906.22,"body":"I'm also on Facebook as MRC Studio."},{"startTime":1907.16,"endTime":1910.843,"body":"Lovely. Thank you. That's been an absolutely fabulous"},{"startTime":1916.579,"endTime":1919.924,"body":"Thanks so much for listening to Creativity Found. I hope you enjoyed"},{"startTime":1919.944,"endTime":1923.709,"body":"this episode and gained some value from it. If you did, perhaps"},{"startTime":1923.729,"endTime":1927.894,"body":"you'd like to contribute a small monetary sign of appreciation, either"},{"startTime":1927.934,"endTime":1931.459,"body":"by becoming a regular supporter from as little as $3 per"},{"startTime":1931.499,"endTime":1934.782,"body":"month using the link in the show notes, Or if you're"},{"startTime":1934.823,"endTime":1938.084,"body":"listening on a value-for-value enabled app, such"},{"startTime":1938.144,"endTime":1941.566,"body":"as Fountain, TrueFans or Podverse, feel free to"},{"startTime":1941.606,"endTime":1945.288,"body":"send a few sats my way. I also occasionally promote"},{"startTime":1945.328,"endTime":1948.449,"body":"products that I personally use, so please use"},{"startTime":1948.489,"endTime":1951.911,"body":"the affiliate link where relevant if you are buying from those fine"},{"startTime":1951.991,"endTime":1955.052,"body":"companies. Thanks so much, I really appreciate it."}]}