{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":8.24,"endTime":12.5,"body":"I was hired as the first"},{"startTime":8.24,"endTime":12.5,"body":"engineer in a small startup company"},{"startTime":12.96,"endTime":18.168,"body":"which specialized in the type"},{"startTime":12.96,"endTime":18.168,"body":"of technology that underlies all"},{"startTime":18.224,"endTime":22.04,"body":"today's artificial"},{"startTime":18.224,"endTime":22.04,"body":"intelligence. I consider actually"},{"startTime":22.08,"endTime":24.456,"body":"in research and development."},{"startTime":22.08,"endTime":24.456,"body":"You're doing a lot of creative stuff."},{"startTime":24.488,"endTime":27.074,"body":"You're creating a new bit of"},{"startTime":24.488,"endTime":27.074,"body":"mathematics or you're thinking figuring"},{"startTime":27.122,"endTime":29.922,"body":"out how to solve a problem"},{"startTime":27.122,"endTime":29.922,"body":"that no one's ever solved before."},{"startTime":30.026,"endTime":33.842,"body":"So I think there's a lot of"},{"startTime":30.026,"endTime":33.842,"body":"creative juices need to get applied"},{"startTime":33.906,"endTime":38.85,"body":"there. In the end, there were"},{"startTime":33.906,"endTime":38.85,"body":"16 survivors who'd been missing for"},{"startTime":38.89,"endTime":44.498,"body":"72 days on the mountain. I"},{"startTime":38.89,"endTime":44.498,"body":"forced myself to write every day"},{"startTime":44.634,"endTime":47.362,"body":"whether the writing was good"},{"startTime":44.634,"endTime":47.362,"body":"or not. And I think that was very"},{"startTime":47.386,"endTime":50.162,"body":"important because I was"},{"startTime":47.386,"endTime":50.162,"body":"getting stuff down on paper and I"},{"startTime":50.186,"endTime":52.19,"body":"might completely rewrite it later."},{"startTime":53.52,"endTime":57.992,"body":"Hi, I'm Claire, founder of"},{"startTime":53.52,"endTime":57.992,"body":"Creativity Found a community for"},{"startTime":58.016,"endTime":61.64,"body":"creative learners and"},{"startTime":58.016,"endTime":61.64,"body":"educators connecting adults who want"},{"startTime":61.68,"endTime":65.352,"body":"to find a creative outlet with"},{"startTime":61.68,"endTime":65.352,"body":"the artists and crafters who can"},{"startTime":65.376,"endTime":69.336,"body":"help them do so with"},{"startTime":65.376,"endTime":69.336,"body":"workshops, courses, online events"},{"startTime":69.368,"endTime":73.928,"body":"and kits. For this podcast, I"},{"startTime":69.368,"endTime":73.928,"body":"chat with people who have found or"},{"startTime":73.984,"endTime":78.792,"body":"refound their creativity as"},{"startTime":73.984,"endTime":78.792,"body":"adults. We'll explore their childhood"},{"startTime":78.856,"endTime":82.624,"body":"experiences of the arts,"},{"startTime":78.856,"endTime":82.624,"body":"discuss how they came to the artistic"},{"startTime":82.672,"endTime":86.352,"body":"practices they now love, and"},{"startTime":82.672,"endTime":86.352,"body":"consider the barriers they may have"},{"startTime":86.376,"endTime":90.4,"body":"experienced between the two."},{"startTime":86.376,"endTime":90.4,"body":"We'll also explore what it is that"},{"startTime":90.44,"endTime":94.576,"body":"people value and gain from"},{"startTime":90.44,"endTime":94.576,"body":"their newfound artistic pursuits"},{"startTime":94.768,"endTime":99.152,"body":"and how their creative lives"},{"startTime":94.768,"endTime":99.152,"body":"enrich their practical, necessary,"},{"startTime":99.296,"endTime":106.918,"body":"everyday lives. This time I'm"},{"startTime":99.296,"endTime":106.918,"body":"chatting with John Guiver. Hi John,"},{"startTime":106.974,"endTime":107.862,"body":"how are you?"},{"startTime":108.046,"endTime":110.582,"body":"Hi Claire. I'm very well,"},{"startTime":108.046,"endTime":110.582,"body":"thank you. And you?"},{"startTime":110.686,"endTime":115.302,"body":"I'm very well, thank you."},{"startTime":110.686,"endTime":115.302,"body":"Start by telling me how you started"},{"startTime":115.406,"endTime":117.61,"body":"tapping into your creativity."},{"startTime":118.03,"endTime":122.566,"body":"Well, I assumed there you were"},{"startTime":118.03,"endTime":122.566,"body":"talking about writing as opposed"},{"startTime":122.598,"endTime":126.63,"body":"to my technical career, which"},{"startTime":122.598,"endTime":126.63,"body":"I also consider a little bit creative."},{"startTime":126.71,"endTime":130.63,"body":"If we talk about writing, I"},{"startTime":126.71,"endTime":130.63,"body":"really came very late to it. My main"},{"startTime":130.67,"endTime":135.31,"body":"career was in the world of"},{"startTime":130.67,"endTime":135.31,"body":"advanced technology and so really"},{"startTime":135.35,"endTime":140.638,"body":"my only published writing was"},{"startTime":135.35,"endTime":140.638,"body":"in the form of technical papers and"},{"startTime":140.694,"endTime":145.598,"body":"conference journals and"},{"startTime":140.694,"endTime":145.598,"body":"academic journals. So my first non"},{"startTime":145.654,"endTime":153.118,"body":"technical published work was"},{"startTime":145.654,"endTime":153.118,"body":"really in 2016. I was around 60 and"},{"startTime":153.254,"endTime":160.51,"body":"I translated the memoirs of"},{"startTime":153.254,"endTime":160.51,"body":"one of the survivors of the 1972"},{"startTime":160.55,"endTime":165.402,"body":"Andes flight disaster. And"},{"startTime":160.55,"endTime":165.402,"body":"actually I'll talk later about how"},{"startTime":165.426,"endTime":168.714,"body":"that came about, but it was a"},{"startTime":165.426,"endTime":168.714,"body":"very pivotal moment for me because"},{"startTime":168.802,"endTime":173.37,"body":"first of all it created a"},{"startTime":168.802,"endTime":173.37,"body":"strong connection at a personal level"},{"startTime":173.41,"endTime":178.778,"body":"with the story, the Andy"},{"startTime":173.41,"endTime":178.778,"body":"story, but also because it convinced"},{"startTime":178.794,"endTime":182.874,"body":"me I could write good prose."},{"startTime":178.794,"endTime":182.874,"body":"And actually doing a translation"},{"startTime":182.922,"endTime":188.96,"body":"is a very interesting exercise"},{"startTime":182.922,"endTime":188.96,"body":"for a would be authority because"},{"startTime":189.34,"endTime":192.692,"body":"it's one where you don't have"},{"startTime":189.34,"endTime":192.692,"body":"to come up with the ideas, but you"},{"startTime":192.716,"endTime":196.964,"body":"do have to create good prose."},{"startTime":192.716,"endTime":196.964,"body":"So it's creative in the sense that"},{"startTime":196.972,"endTime":199.54,"body":"you have to take what the"},{"startTime":196.972,"endTime":199.54,"body":"author wrote in the original language"},{"startTime":199.62,"endTime":204.852,"body":"and put it into good English"},{"startTime":199.62,"endTime":204.852,"body":"and you have to do it in their voice."},{"startTime":204.996,"endTime":209.54,"body":"You know, if they're succinct"},{"startTime":204.996,"endTime":209.54,"body":"or ingenuous or philosophical or"},{"startTime":209.58,"endTime":212.916,"body":"sardonic or whatever, you have"},{"startTime":209.58,"endTime":212.916,"body":"to try and capture that. So it's"},{"startTime":212.948,"endTime":216.364,"body":"really about writing, but"},{"startTime":212.948,"endTime":216.364,"body":"without having to come up with the"},{"startTime":216.372,"endTime":219.932,"body":"original ideas. In fact, it's"},{"startTime":216.372,"endTime":219.932,"body":"a very useful exercise, I think,"},{"startTime":219.956,"endTime":225.324,"body":"for any. Any would be writer."},{"startTime":219.956,"endTime":225.324,"body":"And I followed that up with another"},{"startTime":225.492,"endTime":229.884,"body":"translation, again from the"},{"startTime":225.492,"endTime":229.884,"body":"same community of survivors of the"},{"startTime":229.892,"endTime":234.636,"body":"Andes plane crash. And the"},{"startTime":229.892,"endTime":234.636,"body":"second guy had a completely different"},{"startTime":234.708,"endTime":238.716,"body":"way of telling his story. And"},{"startTime":234.708,"endTime":238.716,"body":"so from these two very different"},{"startTime":238.868,"endTime":243.056,"body":"source materials, I was able"},{"startTime":238.868,"endTime":243.056,"body":"to, you know, write two very different"},{"startTime":243.128,"endTime":247.008,"body":"accounts in the voice of the"},{"startTime":243.128,"endTime":247.008,"body":"original authors. And it really helped"},{"startTime":247.024,"endTime":254.4,"body":"me to hone my writing skills."},{"startTime":247.024,"endTime":254.4,"body":"And so that was really acted as a"},{"startTime":254.44,"endTime":260.256,"body":"seed for when I embarked on"},{"startTime":254.44,"endTime":260.256,"body":"writing my book to Play the Game,"},{"startTime":260.408,"endTime":263.84,"body":"which was also about the"},{"startTime":260.408,"endTime":263.84,"body":"Andes's flight disaster. But this"},{"startTime":263.88,"endTime":269.814,"body":"time it was me who was doing"},{"startTime":263.88,"endTime":269.814,"body":"the. The writing. I wasn't so worried"},{"startTime":269.862,"endTime":273.206,"body":"about whether I could write"},{"startTime":269.862,"endTime":273.206,"body":"decent prose. I was more worried"},{"startTime":273.238,"endTime":277.35,"body":"about whether I could pull"},{"startTime":273.238,"endTime":277.35,"body":"together this large amount of information"},{"startTime":277.47,"endTime":284.89,"body":"in a cohesive way, in a way"},{"startTime":277.47,"endTime":284.89,"body":"that was compelling to the reader,"},{"startTime":285.31,"endTime":288.45,"body":"and to do it within the"},{"startTime":285.31,"endTime":288.45,"body":"timeframe that I wanted to do it."},{"startTime":288.91,"endTime":291.542,"body":"Yeah, that's really"},{"startTime":288.91,"endTime":291.542,"body":"interesting actually, because we"},{"startTime":291.566,"endTime":297.306,"body":"often talk with people who"},{"startTime":291.566,"endTime":297.306,"body":"have come to become authors in adulthood"},{"startTime":297.418,"endTime":300.602,"body":"about finding a voice. So it's"},{"startTime":297.418,"endTime":300.602,"body":"interesting to look at it from the"},{"startTime":300.626,"endTime":305.21,"body":"point of view of your. Not"},{"startTime":300.626,"endTime":305.21,"body":"just translating words, you're translating"},{"startTime":305.29,"endTime":308.698,"body":"that author's voice and"},{"startTime":305.29,"endTime":308.698,"body":"putting that across. You've talked"},{"startTime":308.714,"endTime":312.426,"body":"a little bit about your"},{"startTime":308.714,"endTime":312.426,"body":"career, but how were creative arts"},{"startTime":312.458,"endTime":316.922,"body":"or creative activities, were"},{"startTime":312.458,"endTime":316.922,"body":"they a part of your childhood? Were"},{"startTime":316.946,"endTime":321.9,"body":"they encouraged at home or at"},{"startTime":316.946,"endTime":321.9,"body":"school, whether writing or otherwise?"},{"startTime":322.06,"endTime":327.068,"body":"I grew up in a small village"},{"startTime":322.06,"endTime":327.068,"body":"on the Essex, Suffolk border, which"},{"startTime":327.124,"endTime":332.252,"body":"a beautiful part of the uk. My"},{"startTime":327.124,"endTime":332.252,"body":"father was third generation doctor,"},{"startTime":332.316,"endTime":337.66,"body":"country doctor. The consulting"},{"startTime":332.316,"endTime":337.66,"body":"rooms were in our house. But my mother"},{"startTime":337.82,"endTime":341.948,"body":"is Italian. She actually"},{"startTime":337.82,"endTime":341.948,"body":"celebrated her 98th birthday last"},{"startTime":342.004,"endTime":347.83,"body":"week. And she studied English"},{"startTime":342.004,"endTime":347.83,"body":"literature. And so certainly from"},{"startTime":347.87,"endTime":351.302,"body":"that side of the family there"},{"startTime":347.87,"endTime":351.302,"body":"was a great love of literature and"},{"startTime":351.326,"endTime":355.942,"body":"she had a large number of"},{"startTime":351.326,"endTime":355.942,"body":"books. And I learned to read at a"},{"startTime":355.966,"endTime":359.51,"body":"very early age. I was a"},{"startTime":355.966,"endTime":359.51,"body":"voracious reader. I mean, it was"},{"startTime":359.55,"endTime":364.134,"body":"standard British Children's"},{"startTime":359.55,"endTime":364.134,"body":"fair that I read Enid Blyton, C.S."},{"startTime":364.182,"endTime":368.374,"body":"lewis and stuff like that. And"},{"startTime":364.182,"endTime":368.374,"body":"later Agatha Christie. I read as"},{"startTime":368.382,"endTime":371.734,"body":"much Agatha Christie as I"},{"startTime":368.382,"endTime":371.734,"body":"could. And that was certainly, you"},{"startTime":371.742,"endTime":374.498,"body":"know, reading was certainly"},{"startTime":371.742,"endTime":374.498,"body":"encouraged. My childhood was sort"},{"startTime":374.514,"endTime":377.57,"body":"of rudely interrupted when I"},{"startTime":374.514,"endTime":377.57,"body":"was sent away to boarding school"},{"startTime":377.61,"endTime":382.722,"body":"at the age of eight. And I"},{"startTime":377.61,"endTime":382.722,"body":"remember I did. I was someone who"},{"startTime":382.746,"endTime":387.794,"body":"liked to write at the time."},{"startTime":382.746,"endTime":387.794,"body":"But I remember submitting some humorous"},{"startTime":387.842,"endTime":391.25,"body":"poems in an assignment, an"},{"startTime":387.842,"endTime":391.25,"body":"English assignment I had at school."},{"startTime":391.29,"endTime":395.57,"body":"It must have been age 10, and"},{"startTime":391.29,"endTime":395.57,"body":"the teacher being very dismissive"},{"startTime":395.65,"endTime":399.266,"body":"of them and chastising me for"},{"startTime":395.65,"endTime":399.266,"body":"not taking the assignment seriously"},{"startTime":399.298,"endTime":402.924,"body":"and so on. And I think when"},{"startTime":399.298,"endTime":402.924,"body":"you're away at boarding school, I"},{"startTime":402.932,"endTime":406.572,"body":"mean, it's great for learning"},{"startTime":402.932,"endTime":406.572,"body":"how to be independent, to stand up"},{"startTime":406.596,"endTime":410.332,"body":"for yourself, but you don't"},{"startTime":406.596,"endTime":410.332,"body":"get that environment of encouragement"},{"startTime":410.476,"endTime":415.516,"body":"that a family would bring. So"},{"startTime":410.476,"endTime":415.516,"body":"who knows, maybe if I'd received"},{"startTime":415.588,"endTime":419.996,"body":"that encouragement rather than"},{"startTime":415.588,"endTime":419.996,"body":"that criticism at that age, maybe"},{"startTime":420.028,"endTime":426.092,"body":"I would have gone on to be an"},{"startTime":420.028,"endTime":426.092,"body":"author earlier. But as it was, I"},{"startTime":426.116,"endTime":430.732,"body":"don't remember reading much"},{"startTime":426.116,"endTime":430.732,"body":"literature at school other than what"},{"startTime":430.756,"endTime":435.884,"body":"I had to do for coursework."},{"startTime":430.756,"endTime":435.884,"body":"And I think the formality of studying"},{"startTime":435.932,"endTime":438.892,"body":"English literature really"},{"startTime":435.932,"endTime":438.892,"body":"didn't appeal to me. You know, when"},{"startTime":438.916,"endTime":442.844,"body":"I got out of school, I started"},{"startTime":438.916,"endTime":442.844,"body":"reading Dostoevsky and various Russian"},{"startTime":442.892,"endTime":447.74,"body":"authors and then I read a lot"},{"startTime":442.892,"endTime":447.74,"body":"of Latin American literature, which"},{"startTime":447.78,"endTime":451.452,"body":"I loved. And on and off over"},{"startTime":447.78,"endTime":451.452,"body":"the years, I've gone through phases"},{"startTime":451.516,"endTime":454.78,"body":"of reading a lot and then not"},{"startTime":451.516,"endTime":454.78,"body":"reading so much, but very little"},{"startTime":454.82,"endTime":458.026,"body":"in the way of writing other"},{"startTime":454.82,"endTime":458.026,"body":"than technical writing."},{"startTime":458.218,"endTime":463.898,"body":"Yeah. Did you find subjects at"},{"startTime":458.218,"endTime":463.898,"body":"school, at your boarding school?"},{"startTime":463.954,"endTime":466.87,"body":"I feel so sorry for you, being told."},{"startTime":468.69,"endTime":471.722,"body":"There were some great times"},{"startTime":468.69,"endTime":471.722,"body":"there. So it's not. It wasn't all"},{"startTime":471.746,"endTime":472.362,"body":"bad."},{"startTime":472.546,"endTime":476.698,"body":"So what did you like? What"},{"startTime":472.546,"endTime":476.698,"body":"subjects? Were there any that really"},{"startTime":476.754,"endTime":477.706,"body":"grabbed you?"},{"startTime":477.858,"endTime":480.922,"body":"Well, I was just passionate"},{"startTime":477.858,"endTime":480.922,"body":"about mathematics. That was after"},{"startTime":480.946,"endTime":487.542,"body":"a certain while, probably age"},{"startTime":480.946,"endTime":487.542,"body":"13 or 14, I suddenly sort of got"},{"startTime":487.646,"endTime":493.014,"body":"mathematics. I understood its"},{"startTime":487.646,"endTime":493.014,"body":"formalism. When I started on calculus,"},{"startTime":493.062,"endTime":497.654,"body":"I was just very good at"},{"startTime":493.062,"endTime":497.654,"body":"understanding it and doing the calculations."},{"startTime":497.782,"endTime":502.038,"body":"And later on, when I came to"},{"startTime":497.782,"endTime":502.038,"body":"do my A levels, I was part of a small"},{"startTime":502.094,"endTime":505.782,"body":"group who concentrated on"},{"startTime":502.094,"endTime":505.782,"body":"mathematics. And it was a wonderful"},{"startTime":505.846,"endTime":510.672,"body":"time. I just loved it. And,"},{"startTime":505.846,"endTime":510.672,"body":"you know, after that there was an"},{"startTime":510.696,"endTime":513.056,"body":"expectation. I go to"},{"startTime":510.696,"endTime":513.056,"body":"university, I went to university."},{"startTime":513.128,"endTime":516.528,"body":"I studied pure mathematics at"},{"startTime":513.128,"endTime":516.528,"body":"the University of Bristol. Loved"},{"startTime":516.544,"endTime":520.464,"body":"it, Had a great time at"},{"startTime":516.544,"endTime":520.464,"body":"university. And when I finished,"},{"startTime":520.512,"endTime":525.648,"body":"I, you know, I felt more"},{"startTime":520.512,"endTime":525.648,"body":"interest in going deeper and deeper"},{"startTime":525.664,"endTime":530.544,"body":"into mathematics. And I"},{"startTime":525.664,"endTime":530.544,"body":"continued on in graduate programs,"},{"startTime":530.592,"endTime":534.51,"body":"first at University of"},{"startTime":530.592,"endTime":534.51,"body":"Birmingham and then I moved to the"},{"startTime":534.55,"endTime":546.558,"body":"States in 1978 and I pursued a"},{"startTime":534.55,"endTime":546.558,"body":"PhD which I got in 1982. And then"},{"startTime":546.694,"endTime":550.35,"body":"I returned to the UK and got"},{"startTime":546.694,"endTime":550.35,"body":"my first sort of professional job"},{"startTime":550.39,"endTime":555.582,"body":"as a technical engineer with"},{"startTime":550.39,"endTime":555.582,"body":"British Aerospace in Bristol. And"},{"startTime":555.606,"endTime":560.584,"body":"that was my first sort of"},{"startTime":555.606,"endTime":560.584,"body":"foray into serious sort of work world."},{"startTime":560.672,"endTime":566.024,"body":"Yeah, yeah. Had you when you"},{"startTime":560.672,"endTime":566.024,"body":"were doing pure mathematics doesn't"},{"startTime":566.072,"endTime":571.88,"body":"sound applicable. Did you have"},{"startTime":566.072,"endTime":571.88,"body":"ideas of what you wanted to do in"},{"startTime":571.92,"endTime":573.128,"body":"the working world?"},{"startTime":573.264,"endTime":576.52,"body":"I mean, that's an interesting"},{"startTime":573.264,"endTime":576.52,"body":"thing because mathematics can be"},{"startTime":576.64,"endTime":581.272,"body":"especially pure mathematics"},{"startTime":576.64,"endTime":581.272,"body":"can be studied in isolation. And"},{"startTime":581.296,"endTime":586.51,"body":"you do wonder, what on earth"},{"startTime":581.296,"endTime":586.51,"body":"am I going to do with it? But actually"},{"startTime":586.89,"endTime":592.85,"body":"it's a great basis for any"},{"startTime":586.89,"endTime":592.85,"body":"technical career. And towards the"},{"startTime":592.89,"endTime":597.202,"body":"end of my PhD, I started sort"},{"startTime":592.89,"endTime":597.202,"body":"of moving more towards the engineering"},{"startTime":597.266,"endTime":603.218,"body":"side of things. And I could"},{"startTime":597.266,"endTime":603.218,"body":"have decided on a career in academia,"},{"startTime":603.314,"endTime":607.49,"body":"but I really wanted to. I felt"},{"startTime":603.314,"endTime":607.49,"body":"a little bit detached from the real"},{"startTime":607.53,"endTime":610.818,"body":"world. I wanted to really be"},{"startTime":607.53,"endTime":610.818,"body":"applying it. I didn't know quite"},{"startTime":610.834,"endTime":614.572,"body":"what to expect. So I was just"},{"startTime":610.834,"endTime":614.572,"body":"looking for technical jobs in, in"},{"startTime":614.596,"endTime":618.876,"body":"general that required a bit of"},{"startTime":614.596,"endTime":618.876,"body":"programming, but certainly a good"},{"startTime":618.948,"endTime":623.88,"body":"grounding in mathematics. And"},{"startTime":618.948,"endTime":623.88,"body":"that got me my first job. And then"},{"startTime":624.34,"endTime":628.908,"body":"there was a progression from"},{"startTime":624.34,"endTime":628.908,"body":"that first job that sort of started"},{"startTime":628.964,"endTime":632.38,"body":"to become clearer and clearer,"},{"startTime":628.964,"endTime":632.38,"body":"the direction my expertise would"},{"startTime":632.42,"endTime":633.24,"body":"take me."},{"startTime":633.7,"endTime":637.372,"body":"Yeah. And you went back to the"},{"startTime":633.7,"endTime":637.372,"body":"States as well. You said you did"},{"startTime":637.396,"endTime":640.204,"body":"some studying in the States"},{"startTime":637.396,"endTime":640.204,"body":"and then you went back to the States."},{"startTime":640.292,"endTime":641.804,"body":"Why, how was that?"},{"startTime":641.892,"endTime":646.936,"body":"Well, in 1985, got married, my"},{"startTime":641.892,"endTime":646.936,"body":"wife's from Pittsburgh, so I gave"},{"startTime":646.968,"endTime":651.128,"body":"up my job in Bristol and moved"},{"startTime":646.968,"endTime":651.128,"body":"to the States. And it was a little"},{"startTime":651.184,"endTime":655.704,"body":"bit of a period of very brief"},{"startTime":651.184,"endTime":655.704,"body":"period of uncertainty because I was"},{"startTime":655.792,"endTime":661.208,"body":"temporarily without a job. And"},{"startTime":655.792,"endTime":661.208,"body":"then almost miraculously, this ad"},{"startTime":661.264,"endTime":663.912,"body":"appeared in the local"},{"startTime":661.264,"endTime":663.912,"body":"newspaper which had no business being"},{"startTime":663.936,"endTime":669.64,"body":"there. It was sort of nestled"},{"startTime":663.936,"endTime":669.64,"body":"among ads for gardeners or nannies"},{"startTime":669.72,"endTime":674.118,"body":"or odd job people. But it was"},{"startTime":669.72,"endTime":674.118,"body":"like my perfect job was this little"},{"startTime":674.174,"endTime":678.166,"body":"ad sort of nestled where it"},{"startTime":674.174,"endTime":678.166,"body":"had no right to be. And I answered"},{"startTime":678.198,"endTime":682.726,"body":"it. And then a week later I"},{"startTime":678.198,"endTime":682.726,"body":"was working as a mathematician and"},{"startTime":682.798,"endTime":687.478,"body":"software engineer for a high"},{"startTime":682.798,"endTime":687.478,"body":"tech robotics company. It was quite"},{"startTime":687.494,"endTime":691.942,"body":"extraordinary really. And that"},{"startTime":687.494,"endTime":691.942,"body":"really kick started my career. So"},{"startTime":691.966,"endTime":696.63,"body":"three years later I was hired"},{"startTime":691.966,"endTime":696.63,"body":"as the first engineer in a small"},{"startTime":696.67,"endTime":701.184,"body":"startup company which"},{"startTime":696.67,"endTime":701.184,"body":"specialized in the type of technology"},{"startTime":701.352,"endTime":706.704,"body":"that underlies all today's"},{"startTime":701.352,"endTime":706.704,"body":"artificial intelligence, the revolution"},{"startTime":706.752,"endTime":710.672,"body":"we see today. And that company"},{"startTime":706.752,"endTime":710.672,"body":"was really the start. It was the"},{"startTime":710.696,"endTime":717.2,"body":"first prominent company that"},{"startTime":710.696,"endTime":717.2,"body":"developed that type of technology."},{"startTime":717.32,"endTime":722.02,"body":"So I was in there right at the"},{"startTime":717.32,"endTime":722.02,"body":"start of the AI revolution."},{"startTime":722.44,"endTime":726.592,"body":"Wow. And what were again,"},{"startTime":722.44,"endTime":726.592,"body":"going back to applications, what"},{"startTime":726.616,"endTime":730.62,"body":"were the applications expected"},{"startTime":726.616,"endTime":730.62,"body":"of AI at that time?"},{"startTime":731.32,"endTime":734.88,"body":"Well, I mean, the company's"},{"startTime":731.32,"endTime":734.88,"body":"objectives were twofold. One was"},{"startTime":734.92,"endTime":740.96,"body":"to provide really a software"},{"startTime":734.92,"endTime":740.96,"body":"platform for exploring this technology,"},{"startTime":741.08,"endTime":744.896,"body":"which was called artificial"},{"startTime":741.08,"endTime":744.896,"body":"neural nets and later deep neural"},{"startTime":744.928,"endTime":748.912,"body":"nets. So to provide a platform"},{"startTime":744.928,"endTime":748.912,"body":"for people to discover this technology,"},{"startTime":749.016,"endTime":753.406,"body":"but also to do applications."},{"startTime":749.016,"endTime":753.406,"body":"And they were fairly simple applications"},{"startTime":753.518,"endTime":758.17,"body":"in credit rating or"},{"startTime":753.518,"endTime":758.17,"body":"engineering modeling. Or financial"},{"startTime":758.47,"endTime":765.65,"body":"prediction. But we were really"},{"startTime":758.47,"endTime":765.65,"body":"hampered by the lack of computational"},{"startTime":766.39,"endTime":773.534,"body":"power to give you just a brief"},{"startTime":766.39,"endTime":773.534,"body":"idea. So ChatGPT, the language models,"},{"startTime":773.582,"endTime":777.118,"body":"the huge, what are called deep"},{"startTime":773.582,"endTime":777.118,"body":"language models that underlie it"},{"startTime":777.254,"endTime":781.34,"body":"in. If you were to try and"},{"startTime":777.254,"endTime":781.34,"body":"train one of those language models"},{"startTime":781.68,"endTime":785.208,"body":"on one of today's computers,"},{"startTime":781.68,"endTime":785.208,"body":"it would take several hundred years"},{"startTime":785.264,"endTime":790.86,"body":"to do that. So what was needed"},{"startTime":785.264,"endTime":790.86,"body":"was a breakthrough in computational"},{"startTime":791.6,"endTime":798.296,"body":"ability. And there were really"},{"startTime":791.6,"endTime":798.296,"body":"sort of three areas where breakthrough"},{"startTime":798.328,"endTime":802.328,"body":"was needed or three"},{"startTime":798.328,"endTime":802.328,"body":"breakthroughs which enabled today's"},{"startTime":802.424,"endTime":807.338,"body":"technology. One was massive"},{"startTime":802.424,"endTime":807.338,"body":"server farms, which are basically"},{"startTime":807.514,"endTime":812.922,"body":"collections of computers all"},{"startTime":807.514,"endTime":812.922,"body":"connected together. And sort of in"},{"startTime":812.946,"endTime":816.954,"body":"parallel with that, you needed"},{"startTime":812.946,"endTime":816.954,"body":"really the software to be able to"},{"startTime":817.042,"endTime":822.394,"body":"encode computations on those"},{"startTime":817.042,"endTime":822.394,"body":"big collections of computers. So"},{"startTime":822.402,"endTime":827.562,"body":"you needed breakthroughs in"},{"startTime":822.402,"endTime":827.562,"body":"languages that were in parallel with"},{"startTime":827.666,"endTime":831.328,"body":"the breakthroughs in parallel"},{"startTime":827.666,"endTime":831.328,"body":"computing. And then thirdly, again"},{"startTime":831.384,"endTime":835.008,"body":"in parallel with that, you"},{"startTime":831.384,"endTime":835.008,"body":"really needed the know how the tricks"},{"startTime":835.024,"endTime":839.456,"body":"of the trade, the ways to deal"},{"startTime":835.024,"endTime":839.456,"body":"with computational issues, the ways"},{"startTime":839.488,"endTime":843.44,"body":"to structure real world"},{"startTime":839.488,"endTime":843.44,"body":"problems. And those all sort of evolved"},{"startTime":843.52,"endTime":848.96,"body":"hand in hand over, you know,"},{"startTime":843.52,"endTime":848.96,"body":"the last 10, 15 years to the point"},{"startTime":849.0,"endTime":851.952,"body":"where now you can do"},{"startTime":849.0,"endTime":851.952,"body":"extraordinary things with artificial"},{"startTime":852.016,"endTime":852.98,"body":"intelligence."},{"startTime":853.4,"endTime":858.186,"body":"Fascinating. Thank you. You"},{"startTime":853.4,"endTime":858.186,"body":"are back in the UK now. So you've"},{"startTime":858.218,"endTime":863.018,"body":"moved back to the UK at some"},{"startTime":858.218,"endTime":863.018,"body":"point. Was that with work? Was that"},{"startTime":863.154,"endTime":864.59,"body":"for other reasons?"},{"startTime":865.01,"endTime":869.13,"body":"I had a succession of two or"},{"startTime":865.01,"endTime":869.13,"body":"three companies that all sprang from"},{"startTime":869.17,"endTime":873.914,"body":"those, those first jobs and"},{"startTime":869.17,"endTime":873.914,"body":"the company I was working for in"},{"startTime":874.002,"endTime":877.322,"body":"around 2000 closed down its"},{"startTime":874.002,"endTime":877.322,"body":"office in Pittsburgh, which is where"},{"startTime":877.346,"endTime":881.082,"body":"I, where I was living. And I"},{"startTime":877.346,"endTime":881.082,"body":"had the opportunity to move back"},{"startTime":881.106,"endTime":887.158,"body":"to the UK with my family and I"},{"startTime":881.106,"endTime":887.158,"body":"ended up a few years later joining"},{"startTime":887.254,"endTime":892.006,"body":"Microsoft and working for"},{"startTime":887.254,"endTime":892.006,"body":"their research division in Cambridge,"},{"startTime":892.038,"endTime":896.326,"body":"which was sort of situated"},{"startTime":892.038,"endTime":896.326,"body":"there because of the university and"},{"startTime":896.478,"endTime":901.398,"body":"which was a great source of"},{"startTime":896.478,"endTime":901.398,"body":"talent for the company. It was my"},{"startTime":901.534,"endTime":904.566,"body":"dream job really. I was"},{"startTime":901.534,"endTime":904.566,"body":"continuing to work in artificial"},{"startTime":904.598,"endTime":908.47,"body":"intelligence. I had an"},{"startTime":904.598,"endTime":908.47,"body":"incredible set of colleagues, some"},{"startTime":908.51,"endTime":911.842,"body":"brilliant researchers and"},{"startTime":908.51,"endTime":911.842,"body":"working on very, very interesting"},{"startTime":912.006,"endTime":916.09,"body":"projects and very creative"},{"startTime":912.006,"endTime":916.09,"body":"stuff as well. We talked about. You"},{"startTime":916.13,"endTime":920.618,"body":"started off asking about my"},{"startTime":916.13,"endTime":920.618,"body":"creative side and I consider actually"},{"startTime":920.674,"endTime":922.986,"body":"in research and development,"},{"startTime":920.674,"endTime":922.986,"body":"you're doing a lot of creative stuff."},{"startTime":923.018,"endTime":925.85,"body":"You're creating a new bit of"},{"startTime":923.018,"endTime":925.85,"body":"mathematics or you're figuring out"},{"startTime":925.89,"endTime":929.562,"body":"how to solve a problem that no"},{"startTime":925.89,"endTime":929.562,"body":"one's ever solved before. So I think"},{"startTime":929.586,"endTime":933.066,"body":"there's a lot of creative"},{"startTime":929.586,"endTime":933.066,"body":"juices need to get applied there."},{"startTime":933.218,"endTime":939.544,"body":"Yeah. Oh, perfect. So then"},{"startTime":933.218,"endTime":939.544,"body":"aside from that writing and moving"},{"startTime":939.592,"endTime":943.656,"body":"on to the next writing, I'm"},{"startTime":939.592,"endTime":943.656,"body":"assuming that you became interested"},{"startTime":943.688,"endTime":947.912,"body":"in this topic before doing the"},{"startTime":943.688,"endTime":947.912,"body":"translations and writing a book for"},{"startTime":947.936,"endTime":951.624,"body":"yourself. So when and how did"},{"startTime":947.936,"endTime":951.624,"body":"you become interested specifically"},{"startTime":951.672,"endTime":955.672,"body":"in the story of the Air crash."},{"startTime":951.672,"endTime":955.672,"body":"Or maybe it was with that area of"},{"startTime":955.696,"endTime":956.84,"body":"the world, I'm not sure."},{"startTime":956.96,"endTime":960.824,"body":"Well, maybe it's a good time"},{"startTime":956.96,"endTime":960.824,"body":"to summarize the story."},{"startTime":960.992,"endTime":961.832,"body":"Please do."},{"startTime":961.936,"endTime":964.528,"body":"Just in case some of your"},{"startTime":961.936,"endTime":964.528,"body":"listeners are not, are not familiar"},{"startTime":964.544,"endTime":971.488,"body":"with it. So it was 1972,"},{"startTime":964.544,"endTime":971.488,"body":"October 13th. Friday, October 13th."},{"startTime":971.664,"endTime":975.408,"body":"A Chilean rugby. Sorry, a"},{"startTime":971.664,"endTime":975.408,"body":"Uruguayan rugby team who all knew"},{"startTime":975.424,"endTime":978.336,"body":"each other, were very close to"},{"startTime":975.424,"endTime":978.336,"body":"each other. They chartered a plane"},{"startTime":978.368,"endTime":982.048,"body":"to go and play a couple of"},{"startTime":978.368,"endTime":982.048,"body":"friendly matches in with a similar"},{"startTime":982.104,"endTime":986.656,"body":"sort of team in Chile. The"},{"startTime":982.104,"endTime":986.656,"body":"pilot took a wrong turn in the Andes."},{"startTime":986.768,"endTime":990.656,"body":"The plane crashed against a"},{"startTime":986.768,"endTime":990.656,"body":"ridge, a mountain ridge. The wings"},{"startTime":990.688,"endTime":994.236,"body":"came off, the tail came off,"},{"startTime":990.688,"endTime":994.236,"body":"some of the passengers were sucked"},{"startTime":994.268,"endTime":999.724,"body":"out the back. The fuselage,"},{"startTime":994.268,"endTime":999.724,"body":"the wingless fuselage landed the"},{"startTime":999.732,"endTime":1005.596,"body":"other side of the ridge. It"},{"startTime":999.732,"endTime":1005.596,"body":"tobogganed miraculously missing rocks"},{"startTime":1005.628,"endTime":1010.844,"body":"and outcrops. It tobogganed a"},{"startTime":1005.628,"endTime":1010.844,"body":"mile down the other side of the mountain"},{"startTime":1010.892,"endTime":1015.58,"body":"and landed up in a very remote"},{"startTime":1010.892,"endTime":1015.58,"body":"glacier that no one had ever been"},{"startTime":1015.62,"endTime":1020.92,"body":"to and came to rest on this"},{"startTime":1015.62,"endTime":1020.92,"body":"glacier with high mountains all around."},{"startTime":1021.38,"endTime":1026.028,"body":"Extraordinarily, 29 people"},{"startTime":1021.38,"endTime":1026.028,"body":"were still alive after the first"},{"startTime":1026.084,"endTime":1030.748,"body":"night. They sheltered in the,"},{"startTime":1026.084,"endTime":1030.748,"body":"in the broken fuselage. They of course,"},{"startTime":1030.804,"endTime":1033.964,"body":"expected rescue to come."},{"startTime":1030.804,"endTime":1033.964,"body":"Within a couple of days. They heard"},{"startTime":1034.012,"endTime":1039.18,"body":"some search planes. After"},{"startTime":1034.012,"endTime":1039.18,"body":"about a week it was clear that no"},{"startTime":1039.22,"endTime":1043.036,"body":"rescue was going to come. And"},{"startTime":1039.22,"endTime":1043.036,"body":"they made some exploratory trips"},{"startTime":1043.068,"endTime":1046.699,"body":"away from the fuselage. But it"},{"startTime":1043.068,"endTime":1046.699,"body":"was was way too cold to stay out"},{"startTime":1046.739,"endTime":1050.555,"body":"at night. The snow was too"},{"startTime":1046.739,"endTime":1050.555,"body":"deep. They couldn't really escape"},{"startTime":1050.587,"endTime":1054.235,"body":"from where they were. So they"},{"startTime":1050.587,"endTime":1054.235,"body":"had to make the difficult decision"},{"startTime":1054.307,"endTime":1061.963,"body":"to use their friends bodies"},{"startTime":1054.307,"endTime":1061.963,"body":"for food. A week later, an avalanche"},{"startTime":1062.011,"endTime":1068.411,"body":"engulfed the fuselage at night"},{"startTime":1062.011,"endTime":1068.411,"body":"and eight more died. And that time"},{"startTime":1068.435,"endTime":1074.406,"body":"there were 19 survivors who"},{"startTime":1068.435,"endTime":1074.406,"body":"were stuck in this tiny space inside"},{"startTime":1074.438,"endTime":1080.086,"body":"the fuselage for three days."},{"startTime":1074.438,"endTime":1080.086,"body":"They finally extricated themselves."},{"startTime":1080.198,"endTime":1086.886,"body":"They made more expeditions"},{"startTime":1080.198,"endTime":1086.886,"body":"which were not successful. Eventually"},{"startTime":1086.998,"endTime":1090.182,"body":"they constructed a sleeping"},{"startTime":1086.998,"endTime":1090.182,"body":"bag out of insulation material and"},{"startTime":1090.206,"endTime":1094.262,"body":"two of them set out on a 10"},{"startTime":1090.206,"endTime":1094.262,"body":"day trek across the Andes. They were"},{"startTime":1094.286,"endTime":1099.048,"body":"on their last legs when they"},{"startTime":1094.286,"endTime":1099.048,"body":"were spotted by a Chilean cattle"},{"startTime":1099.144,"endTime":1104.58,"body":"drover. And he rode down the"},{"startTime":1099.144,"endTime":1104.58,"body":"mountain to the nearest town and"},{"startTime":1105.12,"endTime":1108.552,"body":"alerted the authorities. And"},{"startTime":1105.12,"endTime":1108.552,"body":"in the end there were 16 survivors"},{"startTime":1108.616,"endTime":1113.464,"body":"who'd been missing for 72 days"},{"startTime":1108.616,"endTime":1113.464,"body":"on the mountain. So it's quite an"},{"startTime":1113.472,"endTime":1117.8,"body":"extraordinary story and there"},{"startTime":1113.472,"endTime":1117.8,"body":"are many fascinating aspects of the"},{"startTime":1117.84,"endTime":1123.138,"body":"story that was just a brief"},{"startTime":1117.84,"endTime":1123.138,"body":"sort of summary. One of the things"},{"startTime":1123.194,"endTime":1128.85,"body":"I found really fascinating was"},{"startTime":1123.194,"endTime":1128.85,"body":"the close knit community from which"},{"startTime":1128.89,"endTime":1135.57,"body":"they came. So to give you an"},{"startTime":1128.89,"endTime":1135.57,"body":"idea of that, in 1960, 12 years before"},{"startTime":1135.61,"endTime":1142.562,"body":"the accident, 26 out of the 40"},{"startTime":1135.61,"endTime":1142.562,"body":"passengers were attending the same"},{"startTime":1142.666,"endTime":1146.21,"body":"small school in their"},{"startTime":1142.666,"endTime":1146.21,"body":"neighborhood, the neighborhood of"},{"startTime":1146.25,"endTime":1151.71,"body":"Carrasco. Which is this lovely"},{"startTime":1146.25,"endTime":1151.71,"body":"beachfront neighborhood in Montevideo."},{"startTime":1152.05,"endTime":1155.482,"body":"So there was this"},{"startTime":1152.05,"endTime":1155.482,"body":"extraordinary connection. And the"},{"startTime":1155.506,"endTime":1158.266,"body":"families of those who survived"},{"startTime":1155.506,"endTime":1158.266,"body":"and those who died, they all lived"},{"startTime":1158.298,"endTime":1162.33,"body":"side by side back then and"},{"startTime":1158.298,"endTime":1162.33,"body":"they still do today. I mean, this"},{"startTime":1162.37,"endTime":1167.434,"body":"community is still the same"},{"startTime":1162.37,"endTime":1167.434,"body":"community as it was back then. And"},{"startTime":1167.522,"endTime":1171.722,"body":"that really fascinated me. And"},{"startTime":1167.522,"endTime":1171.722,"body":"when I read the authorized book on"},{"startTime":1171.746,"endTime":1176.028,"body":"the subject, which was Alive"},{"startTime":1171.746,"endTime":1176.028,"body":"by Pierce Paul Reid. Fantastic book."},{"startTime":1176.084,"endTime":1180.188,"body":"It's a brilliant piece of"},{"startTime":1176.084,"endTime":1180.188,"body":"writing. There wasn't much about"},{"startTime":1180.244,"endTime":1184.172,"body":"those who didn't survive and I"},{"startTime":1180.244,"endTime":1184.172,"body":"was curious about them. I felt a"},{"startTime":1184.196,"endTime":1188.492,"body":"story this iconic, you know,"},{"startTime":1184.196,"endTime":1188.492,"body":"it's just a twist of fate as to who"},{"startTime":1188.516,"endTime":1191.692,"body":"was sitting where when the"},{"startTime":1188.516,"endTime":1191.692,"body":"plane crashed or who was lying where"},{"startTime":1191.716,"endTime":1197.292,"body":"when the avalanche engulfed"},{"startTime":1191.716,"endTime":1197.292,"body":"them. And I really felt a wish to"},{"startTime":1197.316,"endTime":1202.316,"body":"know more about them. And that"},{"startTime":1197.316,"endTime":1202.316,"body":"was sort of the seed for the idea"},{"startTime":1202.348,"endTime":1208.972,"body":"for the book. Now, how did I"},{"startTime":1202.348,"endTime":1208.972,"body":"actually get involved? Well, I had"},{"startTime":1209.076,"endTime":1213.388,"body":"an adventure holiday planned"},{"startTime":1209.076,"endTime":1213.388,"body":"in 2013 which fell through, and that's"},{"startTime":1213.404,"endTime":1217.324,"body":"a last minute substitute. I"},{"startTime":1213.404,"endTime":1217.324,"body":"thought, well, I'd actually like"},{"startTime":1217.332,"endTime":1220.172,"body":"to go to the site of the"},{"startTime":1217.332,"endTime":1220.172,"body":"accident. And I found out there was"},{"startTime":1220.196,"endTime":1224.908,"body":"an expedition. It was run by,"},{"startTime":1220.196,"endTime":1224.908,"body":"and still is, by an American Mexican"},{"startTime":1225.004,"endTime":1229.554,"body":"mountaineer, guy called"},{"startTime":1225.004,"endTime":1229.554,"body":"Ricardo Pena. And along on this expedition"},{"startTime":1229.602,"endTime":1233.57,"body":"comes one of the survivors, a"},{"startTime":1229.602,"endTime":1233.57,"body":"chap called Eduardo Strauch. And"},{"startTime":1233.61,"endTime":1238.386,"body":"I went on that and it was a"},{"startTime":1233.61,"endTime":1238.386,"body":"marvelous experience. It's quite"},{"startTime":1238.418,"endTime":1241.47,"body":"an impression, sort of"},{"startTime":1238.418,"endTime":1241.47,"body":"arriving in that place where this"},{"startTime":1242.09,"endTime":1246.338,"body":"iconic event took place, you"},{"startTime":1242.09,"endTime":1246.338,"body":"know, where these young men were."},{"startTime":1246.394,"endTime":1249.89,"body":"Sort of 72 days on the"},{"startTime":1246.394,"endTime":1249.89,"body":"mountain. It's almost surreal and"},{"startTime":1249.93,"endTime":1253.762,"body":"it's very emotional and you"},{"startTime":1249.93,"endTime":1253.762,"body":"get a sense of separation from the"},{"startTime":1253.786,"endTime":1257.462,"body":"world because it's. You're"},{"startTime":1253.786,"endTime":1257.462,"body":"going several hours in a 4x4 and"},{"startTime":1257.486,"endTime":1262.246,"body":"then two days of riding on"},{"startTime":1257.486,"endTime":1262.246,"body":"special mountain horses up to the"},{"startTime":1262.318,"endTime":1266.79,"body":"site. So there's a great sense"},{"startTime":1262.318,"endTime":1266.79,"body":"of separation from the world. It"},{"startTime":1266.83,"endTime":1271.126,"body":"really is a great experience."},{"startTime":1266.83,"endTime":1271.126,"body":"But that was my sort of first introduction"},{"startTime":1271.238,"endTime":1275.574,"body":"and that and another trip a"},{"startTime":1271.238,"endTime":1275.574,"body":"couple of years later. I started"},{"startTime":1275.662,"endTime":1279.35,"body":"gradually to get to know"},{"startTime":1275.662,"endTime":1279.35,"body":"various people in the community,"},{"startTime":1279.47,"endTime":1282.728,"body":"both survivors and non"},{"startTime":1279.47,"endTime":1282.728,"body":"survivors. I already talked about"},{"startTime":1282.784,"endTime":1291.112,"body":"the two books I translated."},{"startTime":1282.784,"endTime":1291.112,"body":"And when I was doing the book translations,"},{"startTime":1291.176,"endTime":1295.24,"body":"I contacted Piers Paul Reed,"},{"startTime":1291.176,"endTime":1295.24,"body":"who'd written Alive. He was very"},{"startTime":1295.28,"endTime":1300.472,"body":"supportive of my project and"},{"startTime":1295.28,"endTime":1300.472,"body":"he gave me access to his archive,"},{"startTime":1300.536,"endTime":1306.12,"body":"which is an incredible source"},{"startTime":1300.536,"endTime":1306.12,"body":"of original material that he collected"},{"startTime":1306.2,"endTime":1313.012,"body":"in 1973. And that really, I"},{"startTime":1306.2,"endTime":1313.012,"body":"guess, added to my interest in the"},{"startTime":1313.036,"endTime":1318.244,"body":"story because now I got very"},{"startTime":1313.036,"endTime":1318.244,"body":"deeply into it and I sought out various"},{"startTime":1318.292,"endTime":1324.116,"body":"other archives, both public"},{"startTime":1318.292,"endTime":1324.116,"body":"and private, to the point where by"},{"startTime":1324.188,"endTime":1328.052,"body":"2019, when I started thinking"},{"startTime":1324.188,"endTime":1328.052,"body":"about the book, I probably knew more"},{"startTime":1328.076,"endTime":1335.934,"body":"about the story than any other"},{"startTime":1328.076,"endTime":1335.934,"body":"outsider and then in 2019, I. I had"},{"startTime":1335.942,"endTime":1340.318,"body":"a sabbatical from work and I"},{"startTime":1335.942,"endTime":1340.318,"body":"went over to Uruguay. I'd been several"},{"startTime":1340.374,"endTime":1343.934,"body":"times before. In the meantime,"},{"startTime":1340.374,"endTime":1343.934,"body":"building up contacts, getting to"},{"startTime":1343.942,"endTime":1350.27,"body":"know people and so on. I went"},{"startTime":1343.942,"endTime":1350.27,"body":"over in 2019 for six weeks with nothing"},{"startTime":1350.35,"endTime":1354.094,"body":"planned other than just to"},{"startTime":1350.35,"endTime":1354.094,"body":"speak to lots of people and interview"},{"startTime":1354.142,"endTime":1358.174,"body":"them. And it was an"},{"startTime":1354.142,"endTime":1358.174,"body":"extraordinary experience. I was received"},{"startTime":1358.262,"endTime":1363.736,"body":"with great courtesy and"},{"startTime":1358.262,"endTime":1363.736,"body":"hospitality and friendship and trust."},{"startTime":1363.878,"endTime":1368.452,"body":"Word of my project sort of"},{"startTime":1363.878,"endTime":1368.452,"body":"spread and I got introduced to a"},{"startTime":1368.476,"endTime":1372.772,"body":"whole chain of people and all"},{"startTime":1368.476,"endTime":1372.772,"body":"of them were happy to talk with me"},{"startTime":1372.796,"endTime":1376.548,"body":"and they were happy for me to"},{"startTime":1372.796,"endTime":1376.548,"body":"record them. And that was really,"},{"startTime":1376.684,"endTime":1379.892,"body":"you know, when I got back to"},{"startTime":1376.684,"endTime":1379.892,"body":"the UK, that's when I started writing."},{"startTime":1379.956,"endTime":1382.0,"body":"That was November 2019."},{"startTime":1382.38,"endTime":1388.5,"body":"Yeah. I was going to ask about"},{"startTime":1382.38,"endTime":1388.5,"body":"the reception. Why do you think they"},{"startTime":1388.54,"endTime":1395.25,"body":"were so open to. To an"},{"startTime":1388.54,"endTime":1395.25,"body":"outsider coming in and asking them"},{"startTime":1395.29,"endTime":1398.434,"body":"questions or, you know, I"},{"startTime":1395.29,"endTime":1398.434,"body":"don't know, does it not feel like"},{"startTime":1398.442,"endTime":1400.082,"body":"you were poking around or."},{"startTime":1400.186,"endTime":1403.73,"body":"Yeah, I mean, I think if I'd"},{"startTime":1400.186,"endTime":1403.73,"body":"just gone as a casual person and"},{"startTime":1403.77,"endTime":1407.17,"body":"started poking around, you"},{"startTime":1403.77,"endTime":1407.17,"body":"know, maybe I would have got a different"},{"startTime":1407.21,"endTime":1410.866,"body":"reception. But I think there"},{"startTime":1407.21,"endTime":1410.866,"body":"were several things in my favor."},{"startTime":1410.978,"endTime":1415.81,"body":"First of all, I translated"},{"startTime":1410.978,"endTime":1415.81,"body":"these books, so I had some, you know,"},{"startTime":1415.93,"endTime":1420.88,"body":"gravitas or whatever. I mean,"},{"startTime":1415.93,"endTime":1420.88,"body":"I had done some serious work, non"},{"startTime":1420.92,"endTime":1425.2,"body":"sensationalist sort of work."},{"startTime":1420.92,"endTime":1425.2,"body":"In. In that sense I was trusted."},{"startTime":1425.28,"endTime":1425.856,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1425.968,"endTime":1430.016,"body":"I think another thing was I. I"},{"startTime":1425.968,"endTime":1430.016,"body":"had a huge knowledge of the event,"},{"startTime":1430.088,"endTime":1433.552,"body":"so I'd go and speak to people"},{"startTime":1430.088,"endTime":1433.552,"body":"and they'd be amazed how much I knew"},{"startTime":1433.576,"endTime":1437.328,"body":"that. How did you know that?"},{"startTime":1433.576,"endTime":1437.328,"body":"And so on. I think a third thing"},{"startTime":1437.384,"endTime":1442.88,"body":"was the time was right. For"},{"startTime":1437.384,"endTime":1442.88,"body":"many, many years the subject was"},{"startTime":1442.92,"endTime":1446.352,"body":"taboo within this community"},{"startTime":1442.92,"endTime":1446.352,"body":"because it was easier not to talk"},{"startTime":1446.376,"endTime":1452.298,"body":"about it, rather than fear"},{"startTime":1446.376,"endTime":1452.298,"body":"opening up the very severe wounds."},{"startTime":1452.394,"endTime":1457.354,"body":"I think perhaps another thing"},{"startTime":1452.394,"endTime":1457.354,"body":"was I was quite low key. I wasn't"},{"startTime":1457.402,"endTime":1461.21,"body":"a journalist, I wasn't seeking"},{"startTime":1457.402,"endTime":1461.21,"body":"a sensationalist story. The way I"},{"startTime":1461.25,"endTime":1466.138,"body":"put it was I wanted to really"},{"startTime":1461.25,"endTime":1466.138,"body":"tell the stories of their loved ones"},{"startTime":1466.314,"endTime":1470.17,"body":"for history, that it was"},{"startTime":1466.314,"endTime":1470.17,"body":"important that the whole story be"},{"startTime":1470.21,"endTime":1475.034,"body":"told. And then once I had some"},{"startTime":1470.21,"endTime":1475.034,"body":"close contacts at the beginning,"},{"startTime":1475.082,"endTime":1478.154,"body":"and then I started to get more"},{"startTime":1475.082,"endTime":1478.154,"body":"and more and word of mouth spread."},{"startTime":1478.202,"endTime":1480.982,"body":"So I think it was that perfect"},{"startTime":1478.202,"endTime":1480.982,"body":"personal word of mouth touch that"},{"startTime":1481.006,"endTime":1486.31,"body":"also helped. And I think"},{"startTime":1481.006,"endTime":1486.31,"body":"finally it was important that an"},{"startTime":1486.35,"endTime":1493.014,"body":"outsider tell the story for it"},{"startTime":1486.35,"endTime":1493.014,"body":"to be balanced and sort of equal"},{"startTime":1493.062,"endTime":1496.982,"body":"across all the protagonists"},{"startTime":1493.062,"endTime":1496.982,"body":"within the story, which would have"},{"startTime":1497.006,"endTime":1501.702,"body":"been, I think, very difficult"},{"startTime":1497.006,"endTime":1501.702,"body":"for someone from Uruguay to achieve"},{"startTime":1501.766,"endTime":1502.37,"body":"that."},{"startTime":1502.67,"endTime":1511.082,"body":"Yeah. So coming on then to the"},{"startTime":1502.67,"endTime":1511.082,"body":"actual physical process of putting"},{"startTime":1511.146,"endTime":1515.354,"body":"all of this work that you've"},{"startTime":1511.146,"endTime":1515.354,"body":"done all of the, you know, conversations"},{"startTime":1515.482,"endTime":1519.194,"body":"there, the research around"},{"startTime":1515.482,"endTime":1519.194,"body":"that, the trips that you've done,"},{"startTime":1519.362,"endTime":1522.954,"body":"and then deciding that you"},{"startTime":1519.362,"endTime":1522.954,"body":"want to write this balanced piece."},{"startTime":1523.002,"endTime":1526.538,"body":"There's two. There's two"},{"startTime":1523.002,"endTime":1526.538,"body":"elements in my mind to this question."},{"startTime":1526.674,"endTime":1530.73,"body":"One is the actual practicality"},{"startTime":1526.674,"endTime":1530.73,"body":"of time and the actual sitting down"},{"startTime":1530.77,"endTime":1535.16,"body":"and doing the work. How did"},{"startTime":1530.77,"endTime":1535.16,"body":"you get fit that in? And two is how"},{"startTime":1535.2,"endTime":1540.216,"body":"did you find the actual"},{"startTime":1535.2,"endTime":1540.216,"body":"process of creating a book that somebody"},{"startTime":1540.248,"endTime":1543.176,"body":"wants to read? The kind of"},{"startTime":1540.248,"endTime":1543.176,"body":"creative side of that. And we talked"},{"startTime":1543.208,"endTime":1546.28,"body":"a little bit earlier on about"},{"startTime":1543.208,"endTime":1546.28,"body":"finding your voice. So those two"},{"startTime":1546.32,"endTime":1548.7,"body":"elements, time and your voice."},{"startTime":1549.52,"endTime":1555.08,"body":"So time. First of all, at that"},{"startTime":1549.52,"endTime":1555.08,"body":"point in 2019, I was ready down to"},{"startTime":1555.12,"endTime":1561.192,"body":"working three days a week. I"},{"startTime":1555.12,"endTime":1561.192,"body":"wanted to sit back from work a little"},{"startTime":1561.216,"endTime":1565.67,"body":"bit. So I had two days plus"},{"startTime":1561.216,"endTime":1565.67,"body":"the weekend, plus it was the time"},{"startTime":1565.71,"endTime":1568.95,"body":"of COVID so I didn't have my"},{"startTime":1565.71,"endTime":1568.95,"body":"commute because I was working from"},{"startTime":1568.99,"endTime":1572.662,"body":"home. So I'd sort of managed"},{"startTime":1568.99,"endTime":1572.662,"body":"to gain a few hours in the week where"},{"startTime":1572.686,"endTime":1576.246,"body":"I could do some serious"},{"startTime":1572.686,"endTime":1576.246,"body":"uninterrupted writing. I mean, typically"},{"startTime":1576.278,"endTime":1580.71,"body":"it was Thursday to Sunday"},{"startTime":1576.278,"endTime":1580.71,"body":"evening, but I soon found that, you"},{"startTime":1580.75,"endTime":1584.726,"body":"know, it just wasn't going to"},{"startTime":1580.75,"endTime":1584.726,"body":"work. So when I could, I had to wait."},{"startTime":1584.758,"endTime":1590.402,"body":"A year after my sabbatical, I"},{"startTime":1584.758,"endTime":1590.402,"body":"retired from my full time job so"},{"startTime":1590.426,"endTime":1594.834,"body":"I could give all my time to"},{"startTime":1590.426,"endTime":1594.834,"body":"writing the book. Another aspect"},{"startTime":1594.882,"endTime":1599.97,"body":"of time, I guess, was I forced"},{"startTime":1594.882,"endTime":1599.97,"body":"myself to write every day whether"},{"startTime":1600.01,"endTime":1603.042,"body":"the writing was good or not."},{"startTime":1600.01,"endTime":1603.042,"body":"And I think that was very important"},{"startTime":1603.146,"endTime":1606.194,"body":"because I was getting stuff"},{"startTime":1603.146,"endTime":1606.194,"body":"down on paper and I might completely"},{"startTime":1606.242,"endTime":1609.778,"body":"rewrite it later, but it was"},{"startTime":1606.242,"endTime":1609.778,"body":"important that I get it down because"},{"startTime":1609.834,"endTime":1613.89,"body":"that helped to sort of"},{"startTime":1609.834,"endTime":1613.89,"body":"structure the book and to see what"},{"startTime":1613.93,"endTime":1617.824,"body":"I needed to do. You know, in"},{"startTime":1613.93,"endTime":1617.824,"body":"my mind I was always sort of planning,"},{"startTime":1617.952,"endTime":1620.272,"body":"you know, if I'm going to"},{"startTime":1617.952,"endTime":1620.272,"body":"write that, then who will I need"},{"startTime":1620.296,"endTime":1624.304,"body":"to speak to, what resource"},{"startTime":1620.296,"endTime":1624.304,"body":"will I need, and et cetera, et cetera."},{"startTime":1624.352,"endTime":1628.56,"body":"So I was constantly juggling"},{"startTime":1624.352,"endTime":1628.56,"body":"these thoughts in my head as I was"},{"startTime":1628.6,"endTime":1635.776,"body":"writing, and I didn't really"},{"startTime":1628.6,"endTime":1635.776,"body":"know what the book would look like."},{"startTime":1635.928,"endTime":1639.472,"body":"I knew what I wanted to write"},{"startTime":1635.928,"endTime":1639.472,"body":"about, I knew all the aspects of"},{"startTime":1639.496,"endTime":1643.104,"body":"what I wanted to write about,"},{"startTime":1639.496,"endTime":1643.104,"body":"but I didn't know how it would hang"},{"startTime":1643.152,"endTime":1646.352,"body":"together, how it would fit"},{"startTime":1643.152,"endTime":1646.352,"body":"together. And that sort of happened"},{"startTime":1646.496,"endTime":1652.384,"body":"organically as I was writing"},{"startTime":1646.496,"endTime":1652.384,"body":"the book in terms of writing style"},{"startTime":1652.512,"endTime":1656.304,"body":"and so on. To begin with, I"},{"startTime":1652.512,"endTime":1656.304,"body":"just plunged in. I started writing"},{"startTime":1656.352,"endTime":1659.312,"body":"a few stories. I wrote a"},{"startTime":1656.352,"endTime":1659.312,"body":"little bit of History of Uruguay."},{"startTime":1659.456,"endTime":1662.688,"body":"It was very important for me"},{"startTime":1659.456,"endTime":1662.688,"body":"to set this sort of broad context,"},{"startTime":1662.864,"endTime":1667.42,"body":"to really embed the reader in"},{"startTime":1662.864,"endTime":1667.42,"body":"the community so they could understand"},{"startTime":1667.72,"endTime":1671.808,"body":"the full scope of the tragedy"},{"startTime":1667.72,"endTime":1671.808,"body":"you know, in depth. So I started"},{"startTime":1671.864,"endTime":1674.512,"body":"writing those bits and of"},{"startTime":1671.864,"endTime":1674.512,"body":"course I rewrote them later, but"},{"startTime":1674.536,"endTime":1679.552,"body":"I. It was taking that first"},{"startTime":1674.536,"endTime":1679.552,"body":"plunge that was very important. And"},{"startTime":1679.576,"endTime":1682.992,"body":"I just, I just started writing"},{"startTime":1679.576,"endTime":1682.992,"body":"and I was writing all hours of the"},{"startTime":1683.016,"endTime":1688.016,"body":"day and then refining it later"},{"startTime":1683.016,"endTime":1688.016,"body":"as I started to find my. My voice."},{"startTime":1688.208,"endTime":1693.546,"body":"Because initially it wasn't"},{"startTime":1688.208,"endTime":1693.546,"body":"quite as I wanted it. It took probably"},{"startTime":1693.578,"endTime":1699.418,"body":"a few months to get the tone"},{"startTime":1693.578,"endTime":1699.418,"body":"that I wanted to write. In those"},{"startTime":1699.474,"endTime":1703.05,"body":"first few not very good"},{"startTime":1699.474,"endTime":1703.05,"body":"chapters I wrote, I actually sent"},{"startTime":1703.09,"endTime":1706.842,"body":"them to the people I'd"},{"startTime":1703.09,"endTime":1706.842,"body":"interviewed and that sort of inspired"},{"startTime":1706.906,"endTime":1711.37,"body":"them to provide me with more"},{"startTime":1706.906,"endTime":1711.37,"body":"in depth information because they"},{"startTime":1711.41,"endTime":1714.49,"body":"saw, well, this is actually"},{"startTime":1711.41,"endTime":1714.49,"body":"going to be reality. It's not just"},{"startTime":1714.53,"endTime":1718.074,"body":"some guy from England coming"},{"startTime":1714.53,"endTime":1718.074,"body":"to chat and saying he's going to"},{"startTime":1718.082,"endTime":1722.056,"body":"write a book, but not really"},{"startTime":1718.082,"endTime":1722.056,"body":"doing it. So as it became a reality,"},{"startTime":1722.248,"endTime":1726.904,"body":"a reality that sort of added"},{"startTime":1722.248,"endTime":1726.904,"body":"positive feedback into the process."},{"startTime":1726.992,"endTime":1730.68,"body":"And I. After the initial round"},{"startTime":1726.992,"endTime":1730.68,"body":"of interviews, I had many, many more"},{"startTime":1730.72,"endTime":1736.616,"body":"conversations by WhatsApp or"},{"startTime":1730.72,"endTime":1736.616,"body":"by email, just making sure I got"},{"startTime":1736.768,"endTime":1741.784,"body":"things correct. I sort of"},{"startTime":1736.768,"endTime":1741.784,"body":"represented their brother correctly"},{"startTime":1741.912,"endTime":1746.568,"body":"and so on. And I think the"},{"startTime":1741.912,"endTime":1746.568,"body":"final bit that I found quite interesting"},{"startTime":1746.664,"endTime":1751.708,"body":"is that I was reading much"},{"startTime":1746.664,"endTime":1751.708,"body":"more than I normally read during"},{"startTime":1751.764,"endTime":1754.78,"body":"that writing process. And I"},{"startTime":1751.764,"endTime":1754.78,"body":"found that very useful because as"},{"startTime":1754.82,"endTime":1760.14,"body":"I read different authors, I"},{"startTime":1754.82,"endTime":1760.14,"body":"paid special attention to how they"},{"startTime":1760.18,"endTime":1764.428,"body":"put together sentences. And"},{"startTime":1760.18,"endTime":1764.428,"body":"sort of by extrapolating from that"},{"startTime":1764.484,"endTime":1770.412,"body":"or interpolating from that, I"},{"startTime":1764.484,"endTime":1770.412,"body":"was able to find my own voice. So"},{"startTime":1770.436,"endTime":1774.236,"body":"probably my voice is sort of"},{"startTime":1770.436,"endTime":1774.236,"body":"some synthesis of some of the books"},{"startTime":1774.268,"endTime":1776.596,"body":"that I was reading at the time."},{"startTime":1776.748,"endTime":1783.7,"body":"Oh, wow. Yeah. Thinking"},{"startTime":1776.748,"endTime":1783.7,"body":"around, outside of the research and"},{"startTime":1783.74,"endTime":1789.508,"body":"the putting it all together,"},{"startTime":1783.74,"endTime":1789.508,"body":"have you found that this creative"},{"startTime":1789.604,"endTime":1794.132,"body":"endeavor, this process of"},{"startTime":1789.604,"endTime":1794.132,"body":"writing a book, has it had an influence"},{"startTime":1794.196,"endTime":1799.4,"body":"on your outside life, on you"},{"startTime":1794.196,"endTime":1799.4,"body":"personally, or, you know, a wider"},{"startTime":1800.06,"endTime":1804.49,"body":"influence than just the book"},{"startTime":1800.06,"endTime":1804.49,"body":"itself and the writing itself?"},{"startTime":1805.23,"endTime":1809.238,"body":"Well, I mean, certainly first"},{"startTime":1805.23,"endTime":1809.238,"body":"of all, there was a great sense of"},{"startTime":1809.294,"endTime":1815.702,"body":"achievement and satisfaction"},{"startTime":1809.294,"endTime":1815.702,"body":"and relief that I'd finished and"},{"startTime":1815.726,"endTime":1818.662,"body":"a sense of disbelief that I'd"},{"startTime":1815.726,"endTime":1818.662,"body":"pulled it off. Because when I was"},{"startTime":1818.686,"endTime":1822.486,"body":"writing, I was like a man"},{"startTime":1818.686,"endTime":1822.486,"body":"possessed. Like I was in the eye"},{"startTime":1822.518,"endTime":1826.63,"body":"of the storm. But I felt this"},{"startTime":1822.518,"endTime":1826.63,"body":"calm. I knew I was going to do it."},{"startTime":1826.75,"endTime":1832.588,"body":"In terms of its influence on"},{"startTime":1826.75,"endTime":1832.588,"body":"me, I think it gave me a lot of confidence"},{"startTime":1832.684,"endTime":1838.092,"body":"in how to go about doing"},{"startTime":1832.684,"endTime":1838.092,"body":"things, how to achieve success. I"},{"startTime":1838.116,"endTime":1842.252,"body":"learned to be bold, to be"},{"startTime":1838.116,"endTime":1842.252,"body":"brave. My advice would be, if you're"},{"startTime":1842.276,"endTime":1846.044,"body":"passionate about something,"},{"startTime":1842.276,"endTime":1846.044,"body":"then pursue it aggressively. Be bold"},{"startTime":1846.092,"endTime":1850.32,"body":"and brave and plan for"},{"startTime":1846.092,"endTime":1850.32,"body":"success. Assume you're going to succeed"},{"startTime":1850.74,"endTime":1855.154,"body":"and then take the necessary"},{"startTime":1850.74,"endTime":1855.154,"body":"steps to achieve that. If, if you"},{"startTime":1855.162,"endTime":1857.314,"body":"think you're not going to"},{"startTime":1855.162,"endTime":1857.314,"body":"succeed, then you won't succeed."},{"startTime":1857.362,"endTime":1862.018,"body":"You have to assume that you"},{"startTime":1857.362,"endTime":1862.018,"body":"will succeed and then plan for that"},{"startTime":1862.074,"endTime":1867.042,"body":"success. The final thing I'd"},{"startTime":1862.074,"endTime":1867.042,"body":"say there is that both through the"},{"startTime":1867.066,"endTime":1871.458,"body":"process of writing and after"},{"startTime":1867.066,"endTime":1871.458,"body":"writing it brought me in contact"},{"startTime":1871.514,"endTime":1875.042,"body":"with many, many people. So"},{"startTime":1871.514,"endTime":1875.042,"body":"first of all, I've learned lots of"},{"startTime":1875.066,"endTime":1879.602,"body":"things from just speaking to"},{"startTime":1875.066,"endTime":1879.602,"body":"people, other perspectives and so"},{"startTime":1879.626,"endTime":1883.34,"body":"on. I. I've met some wonderful"},{"startTime":1879.626,"endTime":1883.34,"body":"friends, both among the people I"},{"startTime":1883.38,"endTime":1888.508,"body":"interviewed, but also among my"},{"startTime":1883.38,"endTime":1888.508,"body":"readers who've contacted me and said,"},{"startTime":1888.564,"endTime":1892.268,"body":"you know, we love your book"},{"startTime":1888.564,"endTime":1892.268,"body":"and, you know, wanted to know more"},{"startTime":1892.324,"endTime":1896.572,"body":"and so on. So I've made a lot"},{"startTime":1892.324,"endTime":1896.572,"body":"of friends and that's really been"},{"startTime":1896.676,"endTime":1897.68,"body":"very enriching."},{"startTime":1898.26,"endTime":1903.276,"body":"That's lovely. What about"},{"startTime":1898.26,"endTime":1903.276,"body":"plans for the future? Are you a planner"},{"startTime":1903.308,"endTime":1906.61,"body":"for the future? Do you have"},{"startTime":1903.308,"endTime":1906.61,"body":"any aspirations of what's next?"},{"startTime":1906.78,"endTime":1912.71,"body":"I'm a planner in some things,"},{"startTime":1906.78,"endTime":1912.71,"body":"but I also believe you have to take"},{"startTime":1912.75,"endTime":1918.742,"body":"what comes along and deal with"},{"startTime":1912.75,"endTime":1918.742,"body":"it the best you can and plans are"},{"startTime":1918.766,"endTime":1922.198,"body":"there to be changed. So I"},{"startTime":1918.766,"endTime":1922.198,"body":"don't have a specific plan to write"},{"startTime":1922.214,"endTime":1925.078,"body":"another book, but I have been"},{"startTime":1922.214,"endTime":1925.078,"body":"doing some writing, or rather I've"},{"startTime":1925.094,"endTime":1931.062,"body":"been doing some transcribing,"},{"startTime":1925.094,"endTime":1931.062,"body":"some commentary on the diaries of"},{"startTime":1931.086,"endTime":1936.592,"body":"my great grandmother who was"},{"startTime":1931.086,"endTime":1936.592,"body":"an intrepid traveler. So when she"},{"startTime":1936.616,"endTime":1942.16,"body":"was 50, her kids had left"},{"startTime":1936.616,"endTime":1942.16,"body":"home, she set out on a series of"},{"startTime":1942.2,"endTime":1947.68,"body":"solo trips to Africa. This was"},{"startTime":1942.2,"endTime":1947.68,"body":"around 1930 or so. She crossed the"},{"startTime":1947.72,"endTime":1953.136,"body":"Sahara twice. She went into"},{"startTime":1947.72,"endTime":1953.136,"body":"deepest, what was in colonial times"},{"startTime":1953.208,"endTime":1959.05,"body":"called French Equatorial"},{"startTime":1953.208,"endTime":1959.05,"body":"Africa. So that's Cameroon, the Congos"},{"startTime":1959.13,"endTime":1965.306,"body":"and Gabon, Mali and so on,"},{"startTime":1959.13,"endTime":1965.306,"body":"going deep into those areas, staying"},{"startTime":1965.338,"endTime":1969.43,"body":"in little villages and being"},{"startTime":1965.338,"endTime":1969.43,"body":"entertained by the local chief and"},{"startTime":1969.73,"endTime":1974.65,"body":"the local villagers. And she"},{"startTime":1969.73,"endTime":1974.65,"body":"kept a diary for all of that. And"},{"startTime":1974.69,"endTime":1980.282,"body":"she has some marvelous"},{"startTime":1974.69,"endTime":1980.282,"body":"photographs of her trips which I"},{"startTime":1980.306,"endTime":1985.956,"body":"think are quite unique and"},{"startTime":1980.306,"endTime":1985.956,"body":"important. So I've been documenting"},{"startTime":1985.988,"endTime":1990.24,"body":"that, putting it into"},{"startTime":1985.988,"endTime":1990.24,"body":"digestible form for the family. But"},{"startTime":1990.54,"endTime":1995.588,"body":"who knows, maybe that might"},{"startTime":1990.54,"endTime":1995.588,"body":"become a book one day, but I don't"},{"startTime":1995.604,"endTime":1997.412,"body":"have specific plans for that."},{"startTime":1997.596,"endTime":2002.388,"body":"What a brilliant story."},{"startTime":1997.596,"endTime":2002.388,"body":"Crikey, what a lady. Brilliant. That's"},{"startTime":2002.404,"endTime":2006.676,"body":"been really lovely. John, tell"},{"startTime":2002.404,"endTime":2006.676,"body":"me how people can connect with you"},{"startTime":2006.748,"endTime":2008.452,"body":"and find the book."},{"startTime":2008.636,"endTime":2014.922,"body":"Well, my website is"},{"startTime":2008.636,"endTime":2014.922,"body":"johnguiver.org that's J-O-H N G-U"},{"startTime":2014.946,"endTime":2021.21,"body":"I V E R.org and that's sort of"},{"startTime":2014.946,"endTime":2021.21,"body":"the one stop place where you can"},{"startTime":2021.25,"endTime":2024.01,"body":"find out a bit about the"},{"startTime":2021.25,"endTime":2024.01,"body":"story, about the books, the translations."},{"startTime":2024.09,"endTime":2029.098,"body":"I did some links there to"},{"startTime":2024.09,"endTime":2029.098,"body":"documentaries, podcasts, et cetera."},{"startTime":2029.194,"endTime":2033.418,"body":"There's also a contact page"},{"startTime":2029.194,"endTime":2033.418,"body":"there if people want to get in touch"},{"startTime":2033.434,"endTime":2036.484,"body":"with me. If you just want to"},{"startTime":2033.434,"endTime":2036.484,"body":"purchase the book, you can go to"},{"startTime":2036.602,"endTime":2040.592,"body":"Amazon is called to play the"},{"startTime":2036.602,"endTime":2040.592,"body":"game. There's a color version because"},{"startTime":2040.616,"endTime":2043.776,"body":"there are a lot of pictures,"},{"startTime":2040.616,"endTime":2043.776,"body":"and there's also a monochrome version"},{"startTime":2043.968,"endTime":2049.92,"body":"which is cheaper, or the"},{"startTime":2043.968,"endTime":2049.92,"body":"digital version is on Google Playbooks."},{"startTime":2050.0,"endTime":2053.664,"body":"Anyway, all that's on the"},{"startTime":2050.0,"endTime":2053.664,"body":"website if you go there."},{"startTime":2053.832,"endTime":2056.544,"body":"Thank you so much for talking"},{"startTime":2053.832,"endTime":2056.544,"body":"with me today, John."},{"startTime":2056.712,"endTime":2059.472,"body":"It's really been my pleasure,"},{"startTime":2056.712,"endTime":2059.472,"body":"Claire. And thank you very much for"},{"startTime":2059.496,"endTime":2060.368,"body":"inviting me."},{"startTime":2060.504,"endTime":2066.362,"body":"You're welcome. I hope you"},{"startTime":2060.504,"endTime":2066.362,"body":"enjoyed this episode. If you did,"},{"startTime":2066.466,"endTime":2069.466,"body":"perhaps you'd like to"},{"startTime":2066.466,"endTime":2069.466,"body":"financially contribute to future"},{"startTime":2069.538,"endTime":2074.938,"body":"episodes at"},{"startTime":2069.538,"endTime":2074.938,"body":"buymeacoffee.com/CreativityFound There's"},{"startTime":2074.954,"endTime":2078.49,"body":"a link in the Show Notes. If"},{"startTime":2074.954,"endTime":2078.49,"body":"you are listening on a value for"},{"startTime":2078.53,"endTime":2083.642,"body":"value enabled app such as"},{"startTime":2078.53,"endTime":2083.642,"body":"Fountain TrueFans or Podcast Guru,"},{"startTime":2083.786,"endTime":2088.163,"body":"feel free to send a few sats"},{"startTime":2083.786,"endTime":2088.163,"body":"my way. And if you have no idea of"},{"startTime":2088.171,"endTime":2091.491,"body":"what I'm talking about, you"},{"startTime":2088.171,"endTime":2091.491,"body":"can find out more by listening to"},{"startTime":2091.515,"endTime":2095.619,"body":"my sister podcast called"},{"startTime":2091.515,"endTime":2095.619,"body":"Podcasting 2.0 In Practice."}]}