{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":8.4,"endTime":11.56,"body":"My stuff was weird and"},{"startTime":8.4,"endTime":11.56,"body":"abstract at a time that. That just"},{"startTime":11.56,"endTime":15.6,"body":"didn't really feel celebrated"},{"startTime":11.56,"endTime":15.6,"body":"or promoted or I couldn't guarantee"},{"startTime":15.6,"endTime":20.0,"body":"I'd get the marks for it. And"},{"startTime":15.6,"endTime":20.0,"body":"so I chose not to pursue it because"},{"startTime":20.0,"endTime":24.12,"body":"it didn't feel like it was"},{"startTime":20.0,"endTime":24.12,"body":"going to set me up at success later"},{"startTime":24.12,"endTime":28.13,"body":"on in life. Well, I mean,"},{"startTime":24.12,"endTime":28.13,"body":"every Australian has to come to the"},{"startTime":28.13,"endTime":34.57,"body":"UK at some point. That is part"},{"startTime":28.13,"endTime":34.57,"body":"of the deal. It's required. So I"},{"startTime":34.57,"endTime":38.05,"body":"had seasonal affective"},{"startTime":34.57,"endTime":38.05,"body":"disorder. My autoimmune condition"},{"startTime":38.05,"endTime":42.65,"body":"flared up. I was terribly"},{"startTime":38.05,"endTime":42.65,"body":"depressed and lonely. I had an insomnia."},{"startTime":42.97,"endTime":46.65,"body":"So I was really, really unwell"},{"startTime":42.97,"endTime":46.65,"body":"in London from the chronic stress."},{"startTime":47.85,"endTime":50.53,"body":"I could never sit with it and"},{"startTime":47.85,"endTime":50.53,"body":"acknowledge it and be with it. And"},{"startTime":50.53,"endTime":53.13,"body":"that's part of what creativity"},{"startTime":50.53,"endTime":53.13,"body":"started to help me to do, to sit"},{"startTime":53.13,"endTime":53.93,"body":"with the pain."},{"startTime":55.29,"endTime":59.75,"body":"Hi, I'm Claire, founder of"},{"startTime":55.29,"endTime":59.75,"body":"Creativity Found, a community for"},{"startTime":59.75,"endTime":63.43,"body":"creative learners and"},{"startTime":59.75,"endTime":63.43,"body":"educators connecting adults who want"},{"startTime":63.43,"endTime":67.15,"body":"to find a creative outlet with"},{"startTime":63.43,"endTime":67.15,"body":"the artists and crafters who can"},{"startTime":67.15,"endTime":71.11,"body":"help them do so with"},{"startTime":67.15,"endTime":71.11,"body":"workshops, courses, online events"},{"startTime":71.11,"endTime":75.71,"body":"and kits. For this podcast, I"},{"startTime":71.11,"endTime":75.71,"body":"chat with people who have found or"},{"startTime":75.71,"endTime":80.59,"body":"refound their creativity as"},{"startTime":75.71,"endTime":80.59,"body":"adults. We'll explore their childhood"},{"startTime":80.59,"endTime":84.43,"body":"experiences of the arts,"},{"startTime":80.59,"endTime":84.43,"body":"discuss how they came to the artistic"},{"startTime":84.43,"endTime":88.15,"body":"practices they now love, and"},{"startTime":84.43,"endTime":88.15,"body":"consider the barriers they may have"},{"startTime":88.15,"endTime":91.93,"body":"experienced between the two,"},{"startTime":88.15,"endTime":91.93,"body":"too. We'll also explore what it is"},{"startTime":91.93,"endTime":96.05,"body":"that people value and gain"},{"startTime":91.93,"endTime":96.05,"body":"from their newfound artistic pursuits,"},{"startTime":96.45,"endTime":100.77,"body":"and how their creative lives"},{"startTime":96.45,"endTime":100.77,"body":"enrich their practical, necessary,"},{"startTime":101.01,"endTime":107.93,"body":"everyday lives. This time, I'm"},{"startTime":101.01,"endTime":107.93,"body":"chatting with Samantha Mackay. Hi,"},{"startTime":107.93,"endTime":109.01,"body":"Samantha, how are you?"},{"startTime":109.41,"endTime":110.81,"body":"Good, thanks. How are you, Claire?"},{"startTime":110.81,"endTime":114.45,"body":"Very well, thank you. Start by"},{"startTime":110.81,"endTime":114.45,"body":"telling me how you express."},{"startTime":114.69,"endTime":118.78,"body":"Your creativity currently at"},{"startTime":114.69,"endTime":118.78,"body":"this present moment. And I feel like"},{"startTime":118.78,"endTime":122.14,"body":"it regularly changes. I'm"},{"startTime":118.78,"endTime":122.14,"body":"doing interviews with people about"},{"startTime":122.22,"endTime":125.82,"body":"what creativity means to them"},{"startTime":122.22,"endTime":125.82,"body":"in a very similar fashion to this,"},{"startTime":125.82,"endTime":129.34,"body":"but in reverse, but using it"},{"startTime":125.82,"endTime":129.34,"body":"through the lens of their Enneagram"},{"startTime":129.34,"endTime":133.54,"body":"type. And I'm finding it"},{"startTime":129.34,"endTime":133.54,"body":"fascinating because so many people"},{"startTime":133.54,"endTime":137.18,"body":"just haven't thought about"},{"startTime":133.54,"endTime":137.18,"body":"what creativity means to them. But"},{"startTime":137.18,"endTime":141.62,"body":"for me as the interviewer, I'm"},{"startTime":137.18,"endTime":141.62,"body":"just finding it really creative to"},{"startTime":141.62,"endTime":144.98,"body":"be in the flow of the"},{"startTime":141.62,"endTime":144.98,"body":"conversation, what question to ask"},{"startTime":144.98,"endTime":148.02,"body":"next, what to pull out, and"},{"startTime":144.98,"endTime":148.02,"body":"then you go in through and edit it"},{"startTime":148.02,"endTime":150.62,"body":"and shape it into something"},{"startTime":148.02,"endTime":150.62,"body":"and. And you just get better and"},{"startTime":150.62,"endTime":154.74,"body":"better with practice. But it's"},{"startTime":150.62,"endTime":154.74,"body":"more just. I'm loving the curiosity"},{"startTime":155.22,"endTime":158.54,"body":"of talking to people about"},{"startTime":155.22,"endTime":158.54,"body":"creativity. And I feel like it sort"},{"startTime":158.54,"endTime":161.78,"body":"of encapsulates so many"},{"startTime":158.54,"endTime":161.78,"body":"aspects of creativity. The conversation,"},{"startTime":161.78,"endTime":164.98,"body":"the design of the"},{"startTime":161.78,"endTime":164.98,"body":"conversation, the editing, all that"},{"startTime":164.98,"endTime":168.38,"body":"piece together. So that's."},{"startTime":164.98,"endTime":168.38,"body":"That's how I'm expressing my creativity"},{"startTime":168.38,"endTime":168.98,"body":"at the moment."},{"startTime":169.14,"endTime":175.05,"body":"Well, you sound like you're"},{"startTime":169.14,"endTime":175.05,"body":"Talking about me, talking to people,"},{"startTime":175.29,"endTime":178.49,"body":"putting the questions"},{"startTime":175.29,"endTime":178.49,"body":"together, editing it afterwards."},{"startTime":179.69,"endTime":183.05,"body":"So we will of course come back"},{"startTime":179.69,"endTime":183.05,"body":"and talk about why you're speaking"},{"startTime":183.05,"endTime":186.77,"body":"to people, what you mean by"},{"startTime":183.05,"endTime":186.77,"body":"Enneagram. But we'll go back to childhood"},{"startTime":186.77,"endTime":190.69,"body":"to start with. Do you think"},{"startTime":186.77,"endTime":190.69,"body":"you had a creative childhood at home"},{"startTime":190.69,"endTime":191.45,"body":"or at school?"},{"startTime":192.09,"endTime":196.57,"body":"I think so, yeah. For me as a"},{"startTime":192.09,"endTime":196.57,"body":"child, I love painting things. I"},{"startTime":196.57,"endTime":200.38,"body":"was always about painting, but"},{"startTime":196.57,"endTime":200.38,"body":"even then I was also really imaginative."},{"startTime":200.46,"endTime":204.66,"body":"I would love to build Lego"},{"startTime":200.46,"endTime":204.66,"body":"cities and imagine all of the cars"},{"startTime":204.66,"endTime":208.1,"body":"and the people coming to life"},{"startTime":204.66,"endTime":208.1,"body":"while I was asleep and pretending"},{"startTime":208.1,"endTime":211.82,"body":"the gardens were these magical"},{"startTime":208.1,"endTime":211.82,"body":"fantasy lands. But I think the most"},{"startTime":212.22,"endTime":215.86,"body":"tangible expression of"},{"startTime":212.22,"endTime":215.86,"body":"creativity for me was painting. And"},{"startTime":215.86,"endTime":219.94,"body":"I love to paint. And I think"},{"startTime":215.86,"endTime":219.94,"body":"it started really as more like putting"},{"startTime":219.94,"endTime":223.62,"body":"paint on paper, but evolved"},{"startTime":219.94,"endTime":223.62,"body":"into other sort of forms of creative"},{"startTime":223.62,"endTime":225.9,"body":"expression over the years as I"},{"startTime":223.62,"endTime":225.9,"body":"got older."},{"startTime":226.54,"endTime":230.94,"body":"And did you have an"},{"startTime":226.54,"endTime":230.94,"body":"opportunity or a vision to continue"},{"startTime":231.26,"endTime":234.42,"body":"that, maybe in further"},{"startTime":231.26,"endTime":234.42,"body":"education? Did you think that might"},{"startTime":234.42,"endTime":236.46,"body":"be a part of your career in"},{"startTime":234.42,"endTime":236.46,"body":"the future?"},{"startTime":237.1,"endTime":240.22,"body":"I think I want it to be. I"},{"startTime":237.1,"endTime":240.22,"body":"really crave the idea of being a"},{"startTime":240.22,"endTime":243.98,"body":"writer or a dancer or like"},{"startTime":240.22,"endTime":243.98,"body":"having a creative career in some"},{"startTime":243.98,"endTime":248.3,"body":"form. And then at high school"},{"startTime":243.98,"endTime":248.3,"body":"when I was doing art and I could"},{"startTime":248.3,"endTime":252.14,"body":"see that I wasn't as good as"},{"startTime":248.3,"endTime":252.14,"body":"other people. And by that I mean"},{"startTime":252.14,"endTime":256.22,"body":"I wasn't the classical artist."},{"startTime":252.14,"endTime":256.22,"body":"My stuff was weird and abstract at"},{"startTime":256.22,"endTime":259.72,"body":"a time that. That just didn't"},{"startTime":256.22,"endTime":259.72,"body":"really celebrated or promoted or"},{"startTime":259.72,"endTime":264.36,"body":"I couldn't guarantee I'd get"},{"startTime":259.72,"endTime":264.36,"body":"the marks for it. And so I chose"},{"startTime":264.36,"endTime":268.56,"body":"not to pursue it because it"},{"startTime":264.36,"endTime":268.56,"body":"didn't feel like it was gonna set"},{"startTime":268.56,"endTime":271.76,"body":"me off at success later on in"},{"startTime":268.56,"endTime":271.76,"body":"life. Even though now I look back"},{"startTime":271.76,"endTime":273.8,"body":"and think, you know,"},{"startTime":271.76,"endTime":273.8,"body":"creativity is one of the most important"},{"startTime":273.88,"endTime":277.48,"body":"skills we can develop. And yet"},{"startTime":273.88,"endTime":277.48,"body":"in the, like, higher educational"},{"startTime":277.48,"endTime":282.0,"body":"system, it. I just didn't feel"},{"startTime":277.48,"endTime":282.0,"body":"like it was going to be a win or"},{"startTime":282.0,"endTime":283.32,"body":"help me in the long term."},{"startTime":284.41,"endTime":290.97,"body":"Yeah, that's often the way"},{"startTime":284.41,"endTime":290.97,"body":"that it's not seen as an important"},{"startTime":291.05,"endTime":293.85,"body":"thing to do, or if there's"},{"startTime":291.05,"endTime":293.85,"body":"something else you should be doing,"},{"startTime":293.85,"endTime":298.13,"body":"do that first and do the"},{"startTime":293.85,"endTime":298.13,"body":"creative stuff for fun. Did you go"},{"startTime":298.13,"endTime":300.33,"body":"into further education? Did"},{"startTime":298.13,"endTime":300.33,"body":"you go to uni?"},{"startTime":300.57,"endTime":305.85,"body":"Yeah, I studied law and"},{"startTime":300.57,"endTime":305.85,"body":"accounting. Wow. Yeah, a lot of creativity"},{"startTime":305.85,"endTime":307.29,"body":"there. A lot of, you know."},{"startTime":308.41,"endTime":310.25,"body":"Where did that come from then?"},{"startTime":310.81,"endTime":313.77,"body":"Well, I think I sort of"},{"startTime":310.81,"endTime":313.77,"body":"repeatedly got this message that"},{"startTime":313.77,"endTime":318.46,"body":"creativity had to be plan B"},{"startTime":313.77,"endTime":318.46,"body":"and I needed a plan A. And so I was"},{"startTime":318.46,"endTime":320.62,"body":"in high school and I looked"},{"startTime":318.46,"endTime":320.62,"body":"around and thought, well, what's"},{"startTime":320.62,"endTime":324.1,"body":"my plan A going to be? Because"},{"startTime":320.62,"endTime":324.1,"body":"I. I do want to change the world"},{"startTime":324.1,"endTime":327.58,"body":"in some way. I do want to have"},{"startTime":324.1,"endTime":327.58,"body":"an impact. And you know, there are"},{"startTime":327.58,"endTime":330.14,"body":"people I admired around me and"},{"startTime":327.58,"endTime":330.14,"body":"I looked at what they were doing"},{"startTime":330.14,"endTime":333.62,"body":"and I think because of that I"},{"startTime":330.14,"endTime":333.62,"body":"was like, well, I'll do commerce"},{"startTime":333.62,"endTime":338.1,"body":"and law because change isn't"},{"startTime":333.62,"endTime":338.1,"body":"happening necessarily through governments,"},{"startTime":338.1,"endTime":340.66,"body":"it's happening through"},{"startTime":338.1,"endTime":340.66,"body":"business. And if you understand how"},{"startTime":340.66,"endTime":344.26,"body":"businesses run, then you can"},{"startTime":340.66,"endTime":344.26,"body":"use that as a, a tool for influence."},{"startTime":344.92,"endTime":348.6,"body":"And so I studied, you know,"},{"startTime":344.92,"endTime":348.6,"body":"commerce, accounting and, and law"},{"startTime":349.56,"endTime":354.12,"body":"is really sort of how it all"},{"startTime":349.56,"endTime":354.12,"body":"came about. And I loved like at university"},{"startTime":354.2,"endTime":358.52,"body":"I did really enjoy studying"},{"startTime":354.2,"endTime":358.52,"body":"law to some extent. But the second"},{"startTime":358.52,"endTime":362.2,"body":"I started working in a law"},{"startTime":358.52,"endTime":362.2,"body":"firm, I just, I just knew it wasn't"},{"startTime":362.2,"endTime":365.04,"body":"for me. Almost as soon as I"},{"startTime":362.2,"endTime":365.04,"body":"was into my accounting degree, I"},{"startTime":365.04,"endTime":367.68,"body":"knew it wasn't for me. But"},{"startTime":365.04,"endTime":367.68,"body":"these truths revealed themselves"},{"startTime":367.68,"endTime":369.64,"body":"sort of slowly over time."},{"startTime":370.35,"endTime":373.59,"body":"When you say you went to a law"},{"startTime":370.35,"endTime":373.59,"body":"firm and then thought, oh God, this"},{"startTime":373.59,"endTime":378.55,"body":"isn't for me, did you kind of"},{"startTime":373.59,"endTime":378.55,"body":"have to stick with it because you'd"},{"startTime":378.55,"endTime":381.31,"body":"got that far? Or what did you"},{"startTime":378.55,"endTime":381.31,"body":"think after that?"},{"startTime":381.79,"endTime":386.03,"body":"You know, it's funny that. So"},{"startTime":381.79,"endTime":386.03,"body":"I started working at a law firm while"},{"startTime":386.03,"endTime":389.23,"body":"I was still at university and"},{"startTime":386.03,"endTime":389.23,"body":"it was almost like your part time"},{"startTime":389.23,"endTime":392.15,"body":"job. So even though I was"},{"startTime":389.23,"endTime":392.15,"body":"terribly depressed while doing it,"},{"startTime":392.15,"endTime":395.99,"body":"I didn't really question it as"},{"startTime":392.15,"endTime":395.99,"body":"the, as a career choice. You know,"},{"startTime":395.99,"endTime":398.64,"body":"you sort of just went along"},{"startTime":395.99,"endTime":398.64,"body":"with it. And when I started working"},{"startTime":398.64,"endTime":404.68,"body":"in law properly, I, it wasn't"},{"startTime":398.64,"endTime":404.68,"body":"how I planned on it. You know, I,"},{"startTime":404.68,"endTime":408.4,"body":"I came out of law on the other"},{"startTime":404.68,"endTime":408.4,"body":"end and I was like, okay, I don't"},{"startTime":408.4,"endTime":410.8,"body":"think this is the path I want"},{"startTime":408.4,"endTime":410.8,"body":"to go. So I started applying for"},{"startTime":410.8,"endTime":413.92,"body":"consultancies and other"},{"startTime":410.8,"endTime":413.92,"body":"graduate programs and no one would"},{"startTime":413.92,"endTime":417.04,"body":"accept me, no one would have"},{"startTime":413.92,"endTime":417.04,"body":"me. And I was like, oh no, I'm going"},{"startTime":417.04,"endTime":420.36,"body":"to have to do law. I have no"},{"startTime":417.04,"endTime":420.36,"body":"choice. This is the only option available"},{"startTime":420.36,"endTime":424.04,"body":"to me. And it, I almost saw it"},{"startTime":420.36,"endTime":424.04,"body":"more like a trade than as a profession."},{"startTime":424.3,"endTime":426.34,"body":"This is what I've studied,"},{"startTime":424.3,"endTime":426.34,"body":"therefore I have to do it. No one"},{"startTime":426.34,"endTime":429.18,"body":"else is accepting me for"},{"startTime":426.34,"endTime":429.18,"body":"anything else. Even though the message"},{"startTime":429.18,"endTime":432.7,"body":"you repeatedly get told is law"},{"startTime":429.18,"endTime":432.7,"body":"is great for any career. It sets"},{"startTime":432.7,"endTime":434.78,"body":"you up for success in"},{"startTime":432.7,"endTime":434.78,"body":"anything. And I'm like, no, I seem"},{"startTime":434.78,"endTime":439.06,"body":"to be stuck having to do law."},{"startTime":434.78,"endTime":439.06,"body":"And so completed the, you know, the"},{"startTime":439.06,"endTime":442.62,"body":"certification to be, get to"},{"startTime":439.06,"endTime":442.62,"body":"become a lawyer and ended up in law"},{"startTime":442.62,"endTime":447.86,"body":"firms. And even when I found a"},{"startTime":442.62,"endTime":447.86,"body":"good law firm, I just, I just couldn't"},{"startTime":447.86,"endTime":450.46,"body":"see myself doing it for the"},{"startTime":447.86,"endTime":450.46,"body":"rest of my life because it just didn't"},{"startTime":450.46,"endTime":452.62,"body":"seem creative or interesting enough."},{"startTime":453.53,"endTime":455.93,"body":"How long were you working in"},{"startTime":453.53,"endTime":455.93,"body":"law firms?"},{"startTime":456.49,"endTime":461.29,"body":"Roughly 10 years or so between"},{"startTime":456.49,"endTime":461.29,"body":"both being a paralegal and a lawyer,"},{"startTime":461.29,"endTime":465.41,"body":"both in Sydney and in London."},{"startTime":461.29,"endTime":465.41,"body":"Yeah. So, you know, it was quite"},{"startTime":465.41,"endTime":468.17,"body":"a while, but just in a variety"},{"startTime":465.41,"endTime":468.17,"body":"of roles."},{"startTime":469.05,"endTime":473.53,"body":"Yeah. And you mentioned London"},{"startTime":469.05,"endTime":473.53,"body":"there. How and why did you come to"},{"startTime":473.53,"endTime":473.93,"body":"the uk?"},{"startTime":474.73,"endTime":478.25,"body":"Well, I mean, every Australian"},{"startTime":474.73,"endTime":478.25,"body":"has to come to the UK at some point."},{"startTime":478.73,"endTime":484.49,"body":"That is part of the deal. It's"},{"startTime":478.73,"endTime":484.49,"body":"required. And for me, I sort of."},{"startTime":484.49,"endTime":488.81,"body":"I hit 28, and I had some"},{"startTime":484.49,"endTime":488.81,"body":"friends who were in London at the"},{"startTime":488.81,"endTime":493.25,"body":"time, and it just seemed like"},{"startTime":488.81,"endTime":493.25,"body":"that I was like, I'll never be able"},{"startTime":493.25,"endTime":496.41,"body":"to sleep on couches when I'm"},{"startTime":493.25,"endTime":496.41,"body":"over 30, so we're gonna have to go"},{"startTime":496.41,"endTime":499.37,"body":"now. Now, I did not once sleep"},{"startTime":496.41,"endTime":499.37,"body":"on a couch in London. That never"},{"startTime":499.37,"endTime":502.45,"body":"happened. But there was just"},{"startTime":499.37,"endTime":502.45,"body":"this perception that I was 28 and"},{"startTime":502.45,"endTime":507.41,"body":"I had to go. Now. I got to"},{"startTime":502.45,"endTime":507.41,"body":"London, got a, you know, a job with"},{"startTime":507.41,"endTime":511.73,"body":"a big law firm, which was"},{"startTime":507.41,"endTime":511.73,"body":"awful from start to finish, and really"},{"startTime":511.73,"endTime":515.53,"body":"confirmed that it wasn't the"},{"startTime":511.73,"endTime":515.53,"body":"path for me. But, yeah, that's how"},{"startTime":515.53,"endTime":516.49,"body":"I ended up in London."},{"startTime":517.05,"endTime":522.61,"body":"Were you able to enjoy your"},{"startTime":517.05,"endTime":522.61,"body":"time in London around that? And how"},{"startTime":522.61,"endTime":523.85,"body":"long did you stay for?"},{"startTime":524.17,"endTime":528.65,"body":"I think I was in London like"},{"startTime":524.17,"endTime":528.65,"body":"two and a half years in total. And"},{"startTime":528.65,"endTime":532.29,"body":"I think the challenge for me,"},{"startTime":528.65,"endTime":532.29,"body":"I mean, I loved parts of living in"},{"startTime":532.29,"endTime":537.08,"body":"London, but the challenge for"},{"startTime":532.29,"endTime":537.08,"body":"me was I was so stressed from the"},{"startTime":537.08,"endTime":541.44,"body":"move and from having a career"},{"startTime":537.08,"endTime":541.44,"body":"that didn't fit. I was almost too"},{"startTime":541.44,"endTime":545.4,"body":"sick to travel. And so I spent"},{"startTime":541.44,"endTime":545.4,"body":"a lot of my time trying to just take"},{"startTime":545.4,"endTime":549.44,"body":"care of myself. So I had"},{"startTime":545.4,"endTime":549.44,"body":"seasonal affective disorder. My autoimmune"},{"startTime":549.44,"endTime":553.4,"body":"condition flared up. I was"},{"startTime":549.44,"endTime":553.4,"body":"terribly depressed and lonely. I"},{"startTime":553.4,"endTime":557.36,"body":"had an insomnia. So I was"},{"startTime":553.4,"endTime":557.36,"body":"really, really unwell in London from"},{"startTime":557.36,"endTime":562.79,"body":"the chronic stress of the"},{"startTime":557.36,"endTime":562.79,"body":"career and the move and underlying"},{"startTime":562.79,"endTime":566.55,"body":"trauma that I wasn't aware of."},{"startTime":562.79,"endTime":566.55,"body":"And so in some way, for me, London"},{"startTime":566.55,"endTime":570.59,"body":"was. Was really hard. You"},{"startTime":566.55,"endTime":570.59,"body":"know, it's like that classic line."},{"startTime":570.59,"endTime":572.91,"body":"It was the best of times, it"},{"startTime":570.59,"endTime":572.91,"body":"was the worst of times for me. I"},{"startTime":572.91,"endTime":577.35,"body":"love London, and I hated it in"},{"startTime":572.91,"endTime":577.35,"body":"equal measure because it was filled"},{"startTime":577.35,"endTime":581.07,"body":"with art and museums that I"},{"startTime":577.35,"endTime":581.07,"body":"could go to all the time. But at"},{"startTime":581.07,"endTime":584.99,"body":"the same time, I was terribly"},{"startTime":581.07,"endTime":584.99,"body":"unwell and terribly unhappy."},{"startTime":585.51,"endTime":590.83,"body":"Yeah, you weren't in the place"},{"startTime":585.51,"endTime":590.83,"body":"to be able to enjoy it as you would"},{"startTime":590.83,"endTime":592.27,"body":"have hoped to be able to."},{"startTime":592.27,"endTime":592.63,"body":"No."},{"startTime":593.19,"endTime":597.59,"body":"Was it next that you went to"},{"startTime":593.19,"endTime":597.59,"body":"New Zealand and were things different"},{"startTime":597.75,"endTime":598.15,"body":"then?"},{"startTime":599.43,"endTime":603.87,"body":"New Zealand was different in"},{"startTime":599.43,"endTime":603.87,"body":"the sense of I couldn't do law as"},{"startTime":603.87,"endTime":607.11,"body":"a backup career there. You"},{"startTime":603.87,"endTime":607.11,"body":"know, in London, you can do paralegaling"},{"startTime":607.11,"endTime":610.03,"body":"pretty easily, like a temp job"},{"startTime":607.11,"endTime":610.03,"body":"that just doesn't exist in smaller"},{"startTime":610.03,"endTime":615.64,"body":"markets. And so when I arrived"},{"startTime":610.03,"endTime":615.64,"body":"in New Zealand, they said, well,"},{"startTime":615.64,"endTime":618.36,"body":"what do you want to do? What"},{"startTime":615.64,"endTime":618.36,"body":"do you want to get a job at? And"},{"startTime":618.36,"endTime":620.96,"body":"thankfully at the time,"},{"startTime":618.36,"endTime":620.96,"body":"recruiters are pretty, like, flexible"},{"startTime":620.96,"endTime":626.24,"body":"and helpful. And so I started"},{"startTime":620.96,"endTime":626.24,"body":"doing temp work in organizational"},{"startTime":626.72,"endTime":629.52,"body":"development and leadership"},{"startTime":626.72,"endTime":629.52,"body":"development because I had this huge"},{"startTime":629.52,"endTime":633.92,"body":"background in training and"},{"startTime":629.52,"endTime":633.92,"body":"running workshops and in education"},{"startTime":634.08,"endTime":638.81,"body":"in a way. And I just sort of"},{"startTime":634.08,"endTime":638.81,"body":"slowly transitioned into this new"},{"startTime":638.81,"endTime":644.13,"body":"career and I hadn't expected"},{"startTime":638.81,"endTime":644.13,"body":"it, it hadn't been planned, but just"},{"startTime":644.13,"endTime":647.49,"body":"being in a really small place"},{"startTime":644.13,"endTime":647.49,"body":"where you have all these really good"},{"startTime":647.49,"endTime":652.209,"body":"credentials on your cv, people"},{"startTime":647.49,"endTime":652.209,"body":"find a place for you. That's what"},{"startTime":652.209,"endTime":653.29,"body":"I liked about New Zealand."},{"startTime":653.93,"endTime":658.29,"body":"So talking about everything"},{"startTime":653.93,"endTime":658.29,"body":"else surrounding that, I'm just going"},{"startTime":658.29,"endTime":663.38,"body":"to say, and I may cut this"},{"startTime":658.29,"endTime":663.38,"body":"out, but both of us have got all"},{"startTime":663.38,"endTime":666.98,"body":"sorts of noise going on around"},{"startTime":663.38,"endTime":666.98,"body":"us. I've got my family out there"},{"startTime":666.98,"endTime":671.22,"body":"putting the kettle on, making"},{"startTime":666.98,"endTime":671.22,"body":"smoothies. I've heard some of children"},{"startTime":671.3,"endTime":675.5,"body":"and dogs and stuff around. We"},{"startTime":671.3,"endTime":675.5,"body":"are, obviously, we're the UK and"},{"startTime":675.5,"endTime":678.98,"body":"Australia, so we're completely"},{"startTime":675.5,"endTime":678.98,"body":"opposite ends of the day. And it's"},{"startTime":678.98,"endTime":681.62,"body":"obviously busy times in the"},{"startTime":678.98,"endTime":681.62,"body":"prime time."},{"startTime":682.1,"endTime":685.86,"body":"It's prime time. It's, it's,"},{"startTime":682.1,"endTime":685.86,"body":"it's the. It's the beast time of"},{"startTime":685.86,"endTime":688.34,"body":"the day where everyone needs"},{"startTime":685.86,"endTime":688.34,"body":"to be fed now."},{"startTime":689.22,"endTime":694.89,"body":"Yeah, yeah, I think that's"},{"startTime":689.22,"endTime":694.89,"body":"very real. And that just shows what"},{"startTime":694.89,"endTime":696.25,"body":"we. How we all live."},{"startTime":698.33,"endTime":701.69,"body":"That's why I have these on to"},{"startTime":698.33,"endTime":701.69,"body":"try and, like, tune some of that"},{"startTime":701.69,"endTime":702.01,"body":"out."},{"startTime":702.73,"endTime":706.17,"body":"Yeah, yeah, Very good. You"},{"startTime":702.73,"endTime":706.17,"body":"see, Samantha's got her headphones"},{"startTime":706.17,"endTime":712.01,"body":"on. I never wear headphones,"},{"startTime":706.17,"endTime":712.01,"body":"but well done. So excited. So then"},{"startTime":712.01,"endTime":714.73,"body":"back to New Zealand. So then,"},{"startTime":712.01,"endTime":714.73,"body":"when you're doing these different"},{"startTime":714.73,"endTime":720.97,"body":"roles, does that mean you're"},{"startTime":714.73,"endTime":720.97,"body":"feeling happier around yourself as"},{"startTime":720.97,"endTime":722.49,"body":"well, with the rest of your life?"},{"startTime":724.15,"endTime":729.99,"body":"You know, that is a great"},{"startTime":724.15,"endTime":729.99,"body":"question. And I would say no, because"},{"startTime":730.47,"endTime":734.43,"body":"again, I was once again in a"},{"startTime":730.47,"endTime":734.43,"body":"new country with no support systems."},{"startTime":734.43,"endTime":741.35,"body":"My relationship had just"},{"startTime":734.43,"endTime":741.35,"body":"ended. I was once again alone and"},{"startTime":741.83,"endTime":749.0,"body":"starting a new career and"},{"startTime":741.83,"endTime":749.0,"body":"feeling really unsupported. And it"},{"startTime":749.0,"endTime":754.16,"body":"was really difficult for me to"},{"startTime":749.0,"endTime":754.16,"body":"express myself. And I didn't fully"},{"startTime":754.16,"endTime":757.48,"body":"understand that at the time,"},{"startTime":754.16,"endTime":757.48,"body":"but it was so hard for me to take"},{"startTime":757.48,"endTime":761.92,"body":"anything I was feeling and say"},{"startTime":757.48,"endTime":761.92,"body":"it out loud or bring it outside of"},{"startTime":761.92,"endTime":765.6,"body":"myself. What I think is partly"},{"startTime":761.92,"endTime":765.6,"body":"one of the reasons I ended up working"},{"startTime":765.6,"endTime":770.76,"body":"with a coach at the time and"},{"startTime":765.6,"endTime":770.76,"body":"taking that coaching course. And"},{"startTime":770.76,"endTime":777.25,"body":"that happened more by accident"},{"startTime":770.76,"endTime":777.25,"body":"than by design, but I just was so"},{"startTime":777.25,"endTime":783.49,"body":"stuck. And thankfully I ended"},{"startTime":777.25,"endTime":783.49,"body":"up in therapy and that started to"},{"startTime":783.49,"endTime":787.49,"body":"help, but I don't think I"},{"startTime":783.49,"endTime":787.49,"body":"realized how trapped I was trying"},{"startTime":787.49,"endTime":792.09,"body":"to be something that I wasn't."},{"startTime":787.49,"endTime":792.09,"body":"You know, that message of plan A"},{"startTime":792.09,"endTime":796.37,"body":"versus plan B was so deeply"},{"startTime":792.09,"endTime":796.37,"body":"ingrained that I was constantly trying"},{"startTime":796.37,"endTime":800.05,"body":"to prove how I could be"},{"startTime":796.37,"endTime":800.05,"body":"successful at plan A so I could make"},{"startTime":800.05,"endTime":803.43,"body":"time for plan B. And it was"},{"startTime":800.05,"endTime":803.43,"body":"really suffocating and strangling"},{"startTime":803.43,"endTime":807.11,"body":"me. But I couldn't have"},{"startTime":803.43,"endTime":807.11,"body":"articulated that at the time because"},{"startTime":807.11,"endTime":812.91,"body":"you're too busy, like being"},{"startTime":807.11,"endTime":812.91,"body":"stuck in that noose. But it was hard"},{"startTime":812.91,"endTime":817.99,"body":"for me to be happy when I"},{"startTime":812.91,"endTime":817.99,"body":"couldn't express myself."},{"startTime":819.19,"endTime":823.95,"body":"So when you're coming to these"},{"startTime":819.19,"endTime":823.95,"body":"realizations through the help of"},{"startTime":823.95,"endTime":828.82,"body":"another person, is that why"},{"startTime":823.95,"endTime":828.82,"body":"you started painting again?"},{"startTime":830.42,"endTime":834.3,"body":"I'll just put this in a"},{"startTime":830.42,"endTime":834.3,"body":"timeline order for you. So I accidentally"},{"startTime":834.3,"endTime":838.74,"body":"ended up in a coaching course"},{"startTime":834.3,"endTime":838.74,"body":"and, well, for you to become a coach."},{"startTime":838.82,"endTime":841.42,"body":"Yeah, I wasn't planning on"},{"startTime":838.82,"endTime":841.42,"body":"coming a coach, but that's what the"},{"startTime":841.42,"endTime":848.22,"body":"course was for. Um, and inside"},{"startTime":841.42,"endTime":848.22,"body":"the course, I hadn't worked with"},{"startTime":848.22,"endTime":851.38,"body":"a coach at this point in time,"},{"startTime":848.22,"endTime":851.38,"body":"but I kept thinking, I'm so smart,"},{"startTime":851.38,"endTime":855.13,"body":"no one can possibly. This"},{"startTime":851.38,"endTime":855.13,"body":"possibly can't work on me. I'm too"},{"startTime":855.13,"endTime":860.29,"body":"smart for that. Such nonsense."},{"startTime":855.13,"endTime":860.29,"body":"And one of the teachers, you know,"},{"startTime":860.29,"endTime":862.13,"body":"you do lots of practice"},{"startTime":860.29,"endTime":862.13,"body":"sessions during the course. One of"},{"startTime":862.13,"endTime":865.05,"body":"the teachers sat down and"},{"startTime":862.13,"endTime":865.05,"body":"within, you know, the four or five"},{"startTime":865.05,"endTime":867.65,"body":"minute allotted piece of time,"},{"startTime":865.05,"endTime":867.65,"body":"she cracked open something and I"},{"startTime":867.65,"endTime":874.73,"body":"was like, oh my goodness, I"},{"startTime":867.65,"endTime":874.73,"body":"have to work with her. And the thing"},{"startTime":874.73,"endTime":880.49,"body":"I started to work on with her"},{"startTime":874.73,"endTime":880.49,"body":"was creativity. And the very first"},{"startTime":880.49,"endTime":883.53,"body":"exercise she gave me or that"},{"startTime":880.49,"endTime":883.53,"body":"we planned together was for me to"},{"startTime":883.53,"endTime":887.37,"body":"start drawing like a five year"},{"startTime":883.53,"endTime":887.37,"body":"old, you know, and so I got some"},{"startTime":887.37,"endTime":891.33,"body":"colored pencils and some paper"},{"startTime":887.37,"endTime":891.33,"body":"and I just drew circles and flowers"},{"startTime":891.73,"endTime":896.21,"body":"literally like a five year old"},{"startTime":891.73,"endTime":896.21,"body":"would with no expectation or effort"},{"startTime":896.21,"endTime":900.25,"body":"or any. It was just to start"},{"startTime":896.21,"endTime":900.25,"body":"really being able to get my hands"},{"startTime":900.25,"endTime":904.93,"body":"to move over paper again to"},{"startTime":900.25,"endTime":904.93,"body":"start to get some flow coming back."},{"startTime":905.01,"endTime":908.65,"body":"So that's what we worked on"},{"startTime":905.01,"endTime":908.65,"body":"for six months. And ultimately that"},{"startTime":908.65,"endTime":912.06,"body":"led to me painting for like"},{"startTime":908.65,"endTime":912.06,"body":"four or five years, hosting my own"},{"startTime":912.3,"endTime":916.34,"body":"art exhibition, Being really"},{"startTime":912.3,"endTime":916.34,"body":"deep into abstract painting and doing"},{"startTime":916.34,"endTime":920.38,"body":"it every day and it being a"},{"startTime":916.34,"endTime":920.38,"body":"huge practice for me, but it sort"},{"startTime":920.38,"endTime":923.78,"body":"of started there. I don't"},{"startTime":920.38,"endTime":923.78,"body":"think I could have gone back to it"},{"startTime":923.78,"endTime":924.46,"body":"without help."},{"startTime":925.9,"endTime":930.98,"body":"Wow. You said then you were"},{"startTime":925.9,"endTime":930.98,"body":"painting abstractly and you said"},{"startTime":930.98,"endTime":934.94,"body":"when you were at school that"},{"startTime":930.98,"endTime":934.94,"body":"your painting abstractly was perhaps"},{"startTime":934.94,"endTime":938.7,"body":"considered weird among what"},{"startTime":934.94,"endTime":938.7,"body":"everybody else was painting. So how"},{"startTime":938.7,"endTime":941.59,"body":"did you feel about that?"},{"startTime":941.99,"endTime":945.43,"body":"I have this distinct memory of"},{"startTime":941.99,"endTime":945.43,"body":"being a kid, of painting or trying"},{"startTime":945.43,"endTime":951.63,"body":"to paint a person a face and"},{"startTime":945.43,"endTime":951.63,"body":"it looking so strange and the colors"},{"startTime":951.63,"endTime":955.47,"body":"are all wrong and there's no"},{"startTime":951.63,"endTime":955.47,"body":"proportion. And in my mind as a,"},{"startTime":955.47,"endTime":958.91,"body":"you know, young girl, I was"},{"startTime":955.47,"endTime":958.91,"body":"like, this is Terrible. You should"},{"startTime":958.91,"endTime":961.75,"body":"never paint faces, never try"},{"startTime":958.91,"endTime":961.75,"body":"to do anything realistic. And such"},{"startTime":961.75,"endTime":965.27,"body":"a harsh inner critic for"},{"startTime":961.75,"endTime":965.27,"body":"someone so young. It's amazing how"},{"startTime":965.27,"endTime":968.47,"body":"quickly we pick up that harsh"},{"startTime":965.27,"endTime":968.47,"body":"inner critic. But, you know, as an"},{"startTime":968.47,"endTime":970.95,"body":"adult, we could have said,"},{"startTime":968.47,"endTime":970.95,"body":"well, looks like you're painting"},{"startTime":970.95,"endTime":974.27,"body":"like Picasso. Or of course"},{"startTime":970.95,"endTime":974.27,"body":"it's terrible. You've only just started."},{"startTime":974.27,"endTime":976.47,"body":"You know, you need to do a"},{"startTime":974.27,"endTime":976.47,"body":"thousand of these before you can"},{"startTime":976.47,"endTime":981.95,"body":"possibly critique this. And,"},{"startTime":976.47,"endTime":981.95,"body":"you know, no one was there to support"},{"startTime":981.95,"endTime":984.83,"body":"me. There was no one with"},{"startTime":981.95,"endTime":984.83,"body":"those sort of kind words. I don't"},{"startTime":984.83,"endTime":989.79,"body":"know where this sort of inner"},{"startTime":984.83,"endTime":989.79,"body":"critic came from. But when I started"},{"startTime":989.79,"endTime":993.07,"body":"again, I was older. And I"},{"startTime":989.79,"endTime":993.07,"body":"think with the support of the coach"},{"startTime":993.59,"endTime":996.79,"body":"and just being older, I was"},{"startTime":993.59,"endTime":996.79,"body":"able to say, there is no judgment"},{"startTime":996.79,"endTime":1000.23,"body":"here. The aim is this. This"},{"startTime":996.79,"endTime":1000.23,"body":"has to be bad art. The objective"},{"startTime":1000.23,"endTime":1003.75,"body":"is for this to be bad. Really"},{"startTime":1000.23,"endTime":1003.75,"body":"just changing the way I thought about"},{"startTime":1003.75,"endTime":1007.47,"body":"it so the critic didn't get in"},{"startTime":1003.75,"endTime":1007.47,"body":"the way. A lot of permission for"},{"startTime":1007.47,"endTime":1010.67,"body":"it to be bad. And so when I"},{"startTime":1007.47,"endTime":1010.67,"body":"first started painting, I painted"},{"startTime":1010.67,"endTime":1014.83,"body":"with my hands in this very"},{"startTime":1010.67,"endTime":1014.83,"body":"intuitive style, just picking up"},{"startTime":1014.83,"endTime":1017.95,"body":"the color that wanted to be"},{"startTime":1014.83,"endTime":1017.95,"body":"set and applying it in whichever"},{"startTime":1017.95,"endTime":1022.33,"body":"way it needed to be applied."},{"startTime":1017.95,"endTime":1022.33,"body":"And over time, I learned how to use"},{"startTime":1022.33,"endTime":1024.65,"body":"different mediums and"},{"startTime":1022.33,"endTime":1024.65,"body":"different layers and a whole lot"},{"startTime":1024.65,"endTime":1027.17,"body":"of different textures and"},{"startTime":1024.65,"endTime":1027.17,"body":"things. But at the really, at the"},{"startTime":1027.17,"endTime":1030.49,"body":"beginning, it was just using"},{"startTime":1027.17,"endTime":1030.49,"body":"my hands and moving them in the way"},{"startTime":1030.49,"endTime":1034.05,"body":"that intuitively felt right"},{"startTime":1030.49,"endTime":1034.05,"body":"with the colors that felt right."},{"startTime":1035.33,"endTime":1039.21,"body":"And each time I did it, a"},{"startTime":1035.33,"endTime":1039.21,"body":"different emotional feeling would"},{"startTime":1039.21,"endTime":1043.05,"body":"come up. And being able to"},{"startTime":1039.21,"endTime":1043.05,"body":"move my hands in the paint, in the"},{"startTime":1043.05,"endTime":1047.45,"body":"color, just allowed me to"},{"startTime":1043.05,"endTime":1047.45,"body":"process all that in a really safe"},{"startTime":1047.45,"endTime":1050.839,"body":"way that I simply never been"},{"startTime":1047.45,"endTime":1050.839,"body":"able to access before."},{"startTime":1052.199,"endTime":1055.839,"body":"It brings me back to your"},{"startTime":1052.199,"endTime":1055.839,"body":"dancing, actually. When you're talking"},{"startTime":1055.839,"endTime":1059.479,"body":"about moving intuitively and"},{"startTime":1055.839,"endTime":1059.479,"body":"moving the hands in the painting,"},{"startTime":1059.479,"endTime":1063.919,"body":"it's like quite a physical"},{"startTime":1059.479,"endTime":1063.919,"body":"activity rather than a really cerebral"},{"startTime":1063.919,"endTime":1067.199,"body":"activity. And you mentioned"},{"startTime":1063.919,"endTime":1067.199,"body":"that you loved dancing when you were"},{"startTime":1067.199,"endTime":1068.039,"body":"younger as well."},{"startTime":1068.359,"endTime":1071.519,"body":"Love dancing and love to be"},{"startTime":1068.359,"endTime":1071.519,"body":"able to move in whichever way my"},{"startTime":1071.519,"endTime":1076.29,"body":"body loves to move to the"},{"startTime":1071.519,"endTime":1076.29,"body":"music. And when I started to do actual"},{"startTime":1076.29,"endTime":1080.29,"body":"partner dancing, I did Ciroc,"},{"startTime":1076.29,"endTime":1080.29,"body":"which has the least amount of structure"},{"startTime":1080.45,"endTime":1083.09,"body":"of all the partner dancing"},{"startTime":1080.45,"endTime":1083.09,"body":"available. And it was so hard for"},{"startTime":1083.09,"endTime":1088.25,"body":"me to learn how to do the"},{"startTime":1083.09,"endTime":1088.25,"body":"moves to follow the structure, because"},{"startTime":1088.25,"endTime":1091.93,"body":"for me, moving intuitively is"},{"startTime":1088.25,"endTime":1091.93,"body":"far more natural. And I hadn't made"},{"startTime":1091.93,"endTime":1095.17,"body":"that connection before between"},{"startTime":1091.93,"endTime":1095.17,"body":"painting intuitively and moving intuitively."},{"startTime":1095.17,"endTime":1099.01,"body":"Yes, there's so much in the"},{"startTime":1095.17,"endTime":1099.01,"body":"body and how we express ourselves."},{"startTime":1101.26,"endTime":1109.5,"body":"Let's move forward to"},{"startTime":1101.26,"endTime":1109.5,"body":"Enneagram and what that means."},{"startTime":1111.26,"endTime":1114.82,"body":"So I was doing a lot of"},{"startTime":1111.26,"endTime":1114.82,"body":"leadership development Work on top"},{"startTime":1114.82,"endTime":1119.78,"body":"of my own healing work. I, you"},{"startTime":1114.82,"endTime":1119.78,"body":"know, after being a lawyer, I thought"},{"startTime":1119.78,"endTime":1123.46,"body":"if I just find a job that I"},{"startTime":1119.78,"endTime":1123.46,"body":"love, like I'll never need self care"},{"startTime":1123.46,"endTime":1125.66,"body":"again. I'll never have to look"},{"startTime":1123.46,"endTime":1125.66,"body":"after myself because if I'm in a"},{"startTime":1125.66,"endTime":1128.65,"body":"job I love, everything will be"},{"startTime":1125.66,"endTime":1128.65,"body":"fine. Well, then I was in a job I"},{"startTime":1128.65,"endTime":1132.65,"body":"loved and I burnt out even"},{"startTime":1128.65,"endTime":1132.65,"body":"worse than before as a lawyer. And"},{"startTime":1132.65,"endTime":1136.33,"body":"I was so exhausted that when I"},{"startTime":1132.65,"endTime":1136.33,"body":"finally resigned, I basically slept"},{"startTime":1136.33,"endTime":1139.81,"body":"for three months. And then it"},{"startTime":1136.33,"endTime":1139.81,"body":"took another two years before I had"},{"startTime":1139.81,"endTime":1143.369,"body":"enough energy to work full"},{"startTime":1139.81,"endTime":1143.369,"body":"time. Like it, it really took a lot"},{"startTime":1143.369,"endTime":1149.17,"body":"out of me. And through that"},{"startTime":1143.369,"endTime":1149.17,"body":"journey of trying to figure out what"},{"startTime":1149.17,"endTime":1152.05,"body":"do I need to do to heal,"},{"startTime":1149.17,"endTime":1152.05,"body":"because there's so many different"},{"startTime":1152.61,"endTime":1155.45,"body":"ways you can do things. But"},{"startTime":1152.61,"endTime":1155.45,"body":"what works for me was really the"},{"startTime":1155.45,"endTime":1159.06,"body":"question I kept asking myself."},{"startTime":1155.45,"endTime":1159.06,"body":"And that led me to different personality"},{"startTime":1159.06,"endTime":1163.78,"body":"models and what they would say"},{"startTime":1159.06,"endTime":1163.78,"body":"about healing for each person. And"},{"startTime":1164.02,"endTime":1167.18,"body":"it wasn't until I found the"},{"startTime":1164.02,"endTime":1167.18,"body":"Enneagram that I sort of answered"},{"startTime":1167.18,"endTime":1169.82,"body":"those questions. I was able to"},{"startTime":1167.18,"endTime":1169.82,"body":"answer those questions because the"},{"startTime":1169.82,"endTime":1173.74,"body":"Enneagram as a model, it's a"},{"startTime":1169.82,"endTime":1173.74,"body":"sort of a psycho spiritual model"},{"startTime":1173.74,"endTime":1176.98,"body":"of development, which really"},{"startTime":1173.74,"endTime":1176.98,"body":"means it speaks to us psychologically,"},{"startTime":1176.98,"endTime":1180.74,"body":"but also on a path of healing"},{"startTime":1176.98,"endTime":1180.74,"body":"and growth of adult development."},{"startTime":1181.38,"endTime":1185.33,"body":"And it speaks to our core"},{"startTime":1181.38,"endTime":1185.33,"body":"motivations far beyond just how we"},{"startTime":1185.33,"endTime":1188.45,"body":"behave and how we sort of show"},{"startTime":1185.33,"endTime":1188.45,"body":"up in the world, but what's really"},{"startTime":1188.45,"endTime":1192.21,"body":"driving us at a deeper level."},{"startTime":1188.45,"endTime":1192.21,"body":"And the thing about the Enneagram"},{"startTime":1192.21,"endTime":1196.13,"body":"is it shows us who we're not."},{"startTime":1192.21,"endTime":1196.13,"body":"And so I know a lot of systems talk"},{"startTime":1196.13,"endTime":1199.53,"body":"about strengths and"},{"startTime":1196.13,"endTime":1199.53,"body":"weaknesses, but here with the Enneagram,"},{"startTime":1199.53,"endTime":1203.45,"body":"it shows us the paradox that"},{"startTime":1199.53,"endTime":1203.45,"body":"we're trapped inside of. So for me,"},{"startTime":1203.69,"endTime":1208.69,"body":"as a seven, I'm trapped inside"},{"startTime":1203.69,"endTime":1208.69,"body":"this paradox of positivity where"},{"startTime":1208.69,"endTime":1211.98,"body":"I keep chasing things that"},{"startTime":1208.69,"endTime":1211.98,"body":"feel good, but. And trying to have"},{"startTime":1211.98,"endTime":1215.22,"body":"unlimited freedom, but"},{"startTime":1211.98,"endTime":1215.22,"body":"ultimately it leads me to have no"},{"startTime":1215.22,"endTime":1218.14,"body":"freedom. And if you're always"},{"startTime":1215.22,"endTime":1218.14,"body":"chasing things that feel good, you"},{"startTime":1218.14,"endTime":1221.86,"body":"can't face anything that feels"},{"startTime":1218.14,"endTime":1221.86,"body":"bad. And for me, so much of my life"},{"startTime":1221.86,"endTime":1224.98,"body":"felt bad because of the"},{"startTime":1221.86,"endTime":1224.98,"body":"depression and the illness, but I"},{"startTime":1224.98,"endTime":1227.34,"body":"could never sit with it and"},{"startTime":1224.98,"endTime":1227.34,"body":"acknowledge it and be with it. And"},{"startTime":1227.34,"endTime":1229.94,"body":"that's part of what creativity"},{"startTime":1227.34,"endTime":1229.94,"body":"started to help me to do, to sit"},{"startTime":1229.94,"endTime":1233.22,"body":"with the pain, because the"},{"startTime":1229.94,"endTime":1233.22,"body":"suffering comes from running away"},{"startTime":1233.22,"endTime":1236.42,"body":"from it. You know, the more"},{"startTime":1233.22,"endTime":1236.42,"body":"able to sit with the pain, and there's"},{"startTime":1236.42,"endTime":1240.79,"body":"caveats to that, but the more"},{"startTime":1236.42,"endTime":1240.79,"body":"able to sit with it, the more we"},{"startTime":1240.79,"endTime":1244.59,"body":"can just hear what it needs to"},{"startTime":1240.79,"endTime":1244.59,"body":"say and witness it and let it integrate"},{"startTime":1244.59,"endTime":1249.35,"body":"and do its thing. And so for"},{"startTime":1244.59,"endTime":1249.35,"body":"me, the Enneagram taught me that"},{"startTime":1249.35,"endTime":1253.27,"body":"If I'm just able to sit with"},{"startTime":1249.35,"endTime":1253.27,"body":"the pain and not run from it, it'll"},{"startTime":1253.27,"endTime":1257.27,"body":"actually go away. It won't"},{"startTime":1253.27,"endTime":1257.27,"body":"lead to endless suffering. And what"},{"startTime":1257.27,"endTime":1259.95,"body":"I liked then about that is"},{"startTime":1257.27,"endTime":1259.95,"body":"because I got so passionate about"},{"startTime":1259.95,"endTime":1262.67,"body":"healing and I was meeting"},{"startTime":1259.95,"endTime":1262.67,"body":"other people on a healing journey,"},{"startTime":1263.16,"endTime":1265.64,"body":"I'd be, oh, you should try"},{"startTime":1263.16,"endTime":1265.64,"body":"this type of healing, or you should"},{"startTime":1265.64,"endTime":1268.96,"body":"meet this person, or you"},{"startTime":1265.64,"endTime":1268.96,"body":"should try this. And I was fascinated"},{"startTime":1268.96,"endTime":1271.92,"body":"by why what worked for me"},{"startTime":1268.96,"endTime":1271.92,"body":"didn't work for them or why they"},{"startTime":1271.92,"endTime":1275.16,"body":"weren't as excited about it as"},{"startTime":1271.92,"endTime":1275.16,"body":"I was. What's the mismatch there?"},{"startTime":1275.64,"endTime":1279.56,"body":"And I feel like the Enneagram"},{"startTime":1275.64,"endTime":1279.56,"body":"really showed me that there are."},{"startTime":1279.56,"endTime":1282.48,"body":"There's nine types, and so"},{"startTime":1279.56,"endTime":1282.48,"body":"there's nine really different paths"},{"startTime":1282.48,"endTime":1285.72,"body":"to healing. Nine different"},{"startTime":1282.48,"endTime":1285.72,"body":"paradoxes or traps that we're sort"},{"startTime":1285.72,"endTime":1289.56,"body":"of stuck in that need to be"},{"startTime":1285.72,"endTime":1289.56,"body":"untangled or unraveled in their own"},{"startTime":1289.56,"endTime":1293.2,"body":"way. And I think that's, for"},{"startTime":1289.56,"endTime":1293.2,"body":"me, why the Enneagram is stuck more"},{"startTime":1293.2,"endTime":1296.28,"body":"than anything. Because it's"},{"startTime":1293.2,"endTime":1296.28,"body":"not just about how we can be great"},{"startTime":1296.28,"endTime":1298.64,"body":"at work or what are our"},{"startTime":1296.28,"endTime":1298.64,"body":"strengths are and how we can be better."},{"startTime":1298.64,"endTime":1301.72,"body":"It's just understanding,"},{"startTime":1298.64,"endTime":1301.72,"body":"actually, in some way, we're stuck"},{"startTime":1301.72,"endTime":1306.56,"body":"inside this defensive system"},{"startTime":1301.72,"endTime":1306.56,"body":"that's not. It's limiting us. As"},{"startTime":1306.56,"endTime":1310.72,"body":"kids, we needed it to survive"},{"startTime":1306.56,"endTime":1310.72,"body":"and to grow up and to develop the"},{"startTime":1310.72,"endTime":1314.76,"body":"ego that we needed to. We need"},{"startTime":1310.72,"endTime":1314.76,"body":"to do that in childhood. But in adults,"},{"startTime":1314.84,"endTime":1317.64,"body":"that can limit us. And"},{"startTime":1314.84,"endTime":1317.64,"body":"especially if we want creative lives."},{"startTime":1318.75,"endTime":1321.47,"body":"And creativity is such a"},{"startTime":1318.75,"endTime":1321.47,"body":"sensitive part of who we are, it's"},{"startTime":1321.47,"endTime":1327.27,"body":"often so wounded that"},{"startTime":1321.47,"endTime":1327.27,"body":"understanding how that wounding manifests"},{"startTime":1327.27,"endTime":1330.19,"body":"and what the defensive system"},{"startTime":1327.27,"endTime":1330.19,"body":"around it looks like can help us"},{"startTime":1330.19,"endTime":1333.51,"body":"start to. Can assist our"},{"startTime":1330.19,"endTime":1333.51,"body":"process of unraveling it so we can"},{"startTime":1333.51,"endTime":1338.23,"body":"be more creative and speak our"},{"startTime":1333.51,"endTime":1338.23,"body":"truth and show up as our authentic"},{"startTime":1338.23,"endTime":1342.03,"body":"selves in whatever that means"},{"startTime":1338.23,"endTime":1342.03,"body":"for us, in all the messy, glorious"},{"startTime":1342.03,"endTime":1343.95,"body":"imperfection that we all are."},{"startTime":1345.41,"endTime":1351.97,"body":"Yeah, I see. Kind of like when"},{"startTime":1345.41,"endTime":1351.97,"body":"I talk to people on this show, there"},{"startTime":1352.21,"endTime":1358.17,"body":"are lots of feelings of, for"},{"startTime":1352.21,"endTime":1358.17,"body":"example, this is what I think I should"},{"startTime":1358.17,"endTime":1363.77,"body":"be like, or this is what other"},{"startTime":1358.17,"endTime":1363.77,"body":"people think I should be like, especially"},{"startTime":1363.77,"endTime":1368.05,"body":"with regards to actually doing"},{"startTime":1363.77,"endTime":1368.05,"body":"something creative, obviously, and"},{"startTime":1368.21,"endTime":1371.57,"body":"showing it and calling"},{"startTime":1368.21,"endTime":1371.57,"body":"yourself an artist or what you think"},{"startTime":1371.57,"endTime":1375.42,"body":"you should be doing as opposed"},{"startTime":1371.57,"endTime":1375.42,"body":"to what you want to do. So I can"},{"startTime":1375.42,"endTime":1381.02,"body":"see there's a lot of. There's"},{"startTime":1375.42,"endTime":1381.02,"body":"a lot of deeper insidey work than"},{"startTime":1381.02,"endTime":1383.42,"body":"just like, picking up a"},{"startTime":1381.02,"endTime":1383.42,"body":"paintbrush and going, look, here's"},{"startTime":1383.42,"endTime":1383.9,"body":"my art."},{"startTime":1385.82,"endTime":1389.34,"body":"I spoke to. I interviewed"},{"startTime":1385.82,"endTime":1389.34,"body":"someone last week who's A one, and"},{"startTime":1389.34,"endTime":1392.3,"body":"so they have really tough"},{"startTime":1389.34,"endTime":1392.3,"body":"inner critics, and she's a painter,"},{"startTime":1392.3,"endTime":1396.18,"body":"but she only came to it Like a"},{"startTime":1392.3,"endTime":1396.18,"body":"few years ago, because for so many"},{"startTime":1396.18,"endTime":1399.46,"body":"years she kept telling herself"},{"startTime":1396.18,"endTime":1399.46,"body":"that she couldn't be a painter, she"},{"startTime":1399.46,"endTime":1403.08,"body":"wasn't good enough. And it was"},{"startTime":1399.46,"endTime":1403.08,"body":"only until she discovered that she's"},{"startTime":1403.08,"endTime":1405.72,"body":"a one. And, oh, this is how"},{"startTime":1403.08,"endTime":1405.72,"body":"this inner critic is operating. And,"},{"startTime":1405.72,"endTime":1408.56,"body":"you know, here's a way that we"},{"startTime":1405.72,"endTime":1408.56,"body":"can create some space between me"},{"startTime":1408.56,"endTime":1412.4,"body":"and the inner critic that she"},{"startTime":1408.56,"endTime":1412.4,"body":"really was able to embrace painting"},{"startTime":1412.4,"endTime":1414.84,"body":"and the kind of painting she"},{"startTime":1412.4,"endTime":1414.84,"body":"wanted to do."},{"startTime":1415.24,"endTime":1418.52,"body":"Oh, that's brilliant. When you"},{"startTime":1415.24,"endTime":1418.52,"body":"mentioned about speaking to other"},{"startTime":1418.52,"endTime":1422.2,"body":"people and gathering what"},{"startTime":1418.52,"endTime":1422.2,"body":"they're saying and editing, why,"},{"startTime":1422.2,"endTime":1423.64,"body":"who, what, when, how?"},{"startTime":1425.24,"endTime":1428.44,"body":"Good question. So I think"},{"startTime":1425.24,"endTime":1428.44,"body":"through this journey, I've discovered,"},{"startTime":1428.44,"endTime":1431.85,"body":"and you would have, too, that"},{"startTime":1428.44,"endTime":1431.85,"body":"we are all creative. Just so many"},{"startTime":1431.85,"endTime":1437.05,"body":"of us have forgotten that"},{"startTime":1431.85,"endTime":1437.05,"body":"we're creative. And it's just clear"},{"startTime":1437.05,"endTime":1440.77,"body":"to me that we are all creative"},{"startTime":1437.05,"endTime":1440.77,"body":"in some way. And yet the Enneagram"},{"startTime":1440.77,"endTime":1444.01,"body":"reports there's nine types"},{"startTime":1440.77,"endTime":1444.01,"body":"often only speak as two types being"},{"startTime":1444.01,"endTime":1447.61,"body":"created. The type four being"},{"startTime":1444.01,"endTime":1447.61,"body":"really unique and original and needing"},{"startTime":1447.61,"endTime":1451.17,"body":"to express themselves in"},{"startTime":1447.61,"endTime":1451.17,"body":"really, you know, unexpected ways."},{"startTime":1451.57,"endTime":1455.05,"body":"And then the 7 is being sort"},{"startTime":1451.57,"endTime":1455.05,"body":"of inventive and innovative and coming"},{"startTime":1455.05,"endTime":1459.97,"body":"up with really unexpected"},{"startTime":1455.05,"endTime":1459.97,"body":"ideas. And I'm a seven. But I just"},{"startTime":1459.97,"endTime":1463.61,"body":"thought, well, that can't be"},{"startTime":1459.97,"endTime":1463.61,"body":"right. If every person is creative,"},{"startTime":1463.61,"endTime":1465.69,"body":"then what do the other, you"},{"startTime":1463.61,"endTime":1465.69,"body":"know, what are the other types look"},{"startTime":1465.69,"endTime":1468.01,"body":"like in creativity and their"},{"startTime":1465.69,"endTime":1468.01,"body":"creativity? What is that? What does"},{"startTime":1468.01,"endTime":1470.73,"body":"that look like? And so I just"},{"startTime":1468.01,"endTime":1470.73,"body":"set about trying to interview the"},{"startTime":1470.73,"endTime":1473.69,"body":"nine types and then, then"},{"startTime":1470.73,"endTime":1473.69,"body":"expanded that to interviewing the"},{"startTime":1473.69,"endTime":1478.81,"body":"27 subtypes. And what I found"},{"startTime":1473.69,"endTime":1478.81,"body":"fascinating from the process is you"},{"startTime":1478.81,"endTime":1482.93,"body":"speak to people at all stages"},{"startTime":1478.81,"endTime":1482.93,"body":"of their development journey. Like,"},{"startTime":1482.93,"endTime":1486.06,"body":"some people have really never"},{"startTime":1482.93,"endTime":1486.06,"body":"thought of themselves as creative"},{"startTime":1486.06,"endTime":1488.58,"body":"before, and some people have"},{"startTime":1486.06,"endTime":1488.58,"body":"been practicing creativity for a"},{"startTime":1488.58,"endTime":1492.02,"body":"while or doing a lot of inner"},{"startTime":1488.58,"endTime":1492.02,"body":"work with the Enneagram. So it's"},{"startTime":1492.02,"endTime":1497.66,"body":"all through the spectrum. But"},{"startTime":1492.02,"endTime":1497.66,"body":"for everyone, when they realize they're"},{"startTime":1497.66,"endTime":1500.78,"body":"more creative, they've"},{"startTime":1497.66,"endTime":1500.78,"body":"realized, actually, I do creativity"},{"startTime":1500.78,"endTime":1505.66,"body":"every day, but they just never"},{"startTime":1500.78,"endTime":1505.66,"body":"thought of it before. And it ranged"},{"startTime":1505.66,"endTime":1509.54,"body":"from travel planning and"},{"startTime":1505.66,"endTime":1509.54,"body":"running a business and editing videos"},{"startTime":1510.28,"endTime":1515.64,"body":"to painting and drawing,"},{"startTime":1510.28,"endTime":1515.64,"body":"making music, singing and performing."},{"startTime":1516.2,"endTime":1519.48,"body":"But I just. Often the ones I"},{"startTime":1516.2,"endTime":1519.48,"body":"found the most interesting were the."},{"startTime":1519.64,"endTime":1522.44,"body":"The things we don't normally"},{"startTime":1519.64,"endTime":1522.44,"body":"think of as creative, like the travel"},{"startTime":1522.44,"endTime":1526.119,"body":"planning. It is so creative to"},{"startTime":1522.44,"endTime":1526.119,"body":"figure out what kind of experience"},{"startTime":1526.28,"endTime":1530.88,"body":"do I want to have when I"},{"startTime":1526.28,"endTime":1530.88,"body":"travel to Fiji. And yet I never would"},{"startTime":1530.88,"endTime":1535.36,"body":"have thought of that as an act"},{"startTime":1530.88,"endTime":1535.36,"body":"of creativity because we just think"},{"startTime":1535.36,"endTime":1539.56,"body":"of it as this. Some mundane."},{"startTime":1535.36,"endTime":1539.56,"body":"I'm just doing some planning, you"},{"startTime":1539.56,"endTime":1539.88,"body":"know."},{"startTime":1540.04,"endTime":1540.48,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1540.48,"endTime":1543.32,"body":"And yet we're crafting an"},{"startTime":1540.48,"endTime":1543.32,"body":"experience about how we want to feel"},{"startTime":1543.96,"endTime":1546.28,"body":"information and experiences we"},{"startTime":1543.96,"endTime":1546.28,"body":"want to have."},{"startTime":1548.36,"endTime":1554.36,"body":"And are you doing something"},{"startTime":1548.36,"endTime":1554.36,"body":"with these, these learnings that"},{"startTime":1554.36,"endTime":1557.76,"body":"you're making? Sounds like you"},{"startTime":1554.36,"endTime":1557.76,"body":"might be compiling them into something."},{"startTime":1557.76,"endTime":1558.44,"body":"I don't know."},{"startTime":1558.84,"endTime":1562.16,"body":"I'm not. Yeah, that's a great"},{"startTime":1558.84,"endTime":1562.16,"body":"question. I'm not sure yet. So far"},{"startTime":1562.16,"endTime":1567.56,"body":"it has been healing for me."},{"startTime":1562.16,"endTime":1567.56,"body":"The cultural conditioning about what"},{"startTime":1567.56,"endTime":1572.0,"body":"creativity is and isn't is so"},{"startTime":1567.56,"endTime":1572.0,"body":"ingrained that even after, you know,"},{"startTime":1572.0,"endTime":1574.96,"body":"15 conversations, I still"},{"startTime":1572.0,"endTime":1574.96,"body":"didn't believe that creativity was"},{"startTime":1575.28,"endTime":1578.72,"body":"anything but painting and"},{"startTime":1575.28,"endTime":1578.72,"body":"drawing and making music. It's only"},{"startTime":1578.72,"endTime":1582.56,"body":"as I've pushed on and done"},{"startTime":1578.72,"endTime":1582.56,"body":"even more that for me I've started"},{"startTime":1582.56,"endTime":1586.84,"body":"to just see, truly accept, not"},{"startTime":1582.56,"endTime":1586.84,"body":"just at a surface intellectual, but"},{"startTime":1586.84,"endTime":1591.25,"body":"truly accept that creativity"},{"startTime":1586.84,"endTime":1591.25,"body":"is, is in everything we do. I think"},{"startTime":1591.25,"endTime":1594.69,"body":"so. For me, it's been really"},{"startTime":1591.25,"endTime":1594.69,"body":"healing. But for everyone I've spoken"},{"startTime":1594.69,"endTime":1598.09,"body":"to, it's been really healing"},{"startTime":1594.69,"endTime":1598.09,"body":"as well. As to what it's going to"},{"startTime":1598.09,"endTime":1600.77,"body":"become next, I'm not sure."},{"startTime":1598.09,"endTime":1600.77,"body":"I've still got a few types I'm tracking"},{"startTime":1600.77,"endTime":1605.009,"body":"down to interview, but beyond"},{"startTime":1600.77,"endTime":1605.009,"body":"that, I'm waiting to see what it"},{"startTime":1605.009,"endTime":1607.77,"body":"morphs into next. I'm not sure yet."},{"startTime":1608.33,"endTime":1610.85,"body":"Yeah. Cause it doesn't have to"},{"startTime":1608.33,"endTime":1610.85,"body":"be a thing. You don't have to be"},{"startTime":1610.85,"endTime":1614.09,"body":"doing it to make a thing. You"},{"startTime":1610.85,"endTime":1614.09,"body":"are getting benefits from it. The"},{"startTime":1614.09,"endTime":1616.97,"body":"people you're speaking with"},{"startTime":1614.09,"endTime":1616.97,"body":"are benefiting from it. You're learning"},{"startTime":1616.97,"endTime":1620.82,"body":"stuff and understanding stuff."},{"startTime":1616.97,"endTime":1620.82,"body":"Just, just, just by doing it, just"},{"startTime":1620.82,"endTime":1626.22,"body":"do it. I wanted to talk about"},{"startTime":1620.82,"endTime":1626.22,"body":"not so much on. This is because it's"},{"startTime":1626.22,"endTime":1628.82,"body":"early in the morning for me."},{"startTime":1626.22,"endTime":1628.82,"body":"This is why my voice isn't as good,"},{"startTime":1628.82,"endTime":1631.5,"body":"as normal as my excuse."},{"startTime":1633.1,"endTime":1635.86,"body":"Well, mine's the. It's late at"},{"startTime":1633.1,"endTime":1635.86,"body":"night and there's been children all"},{"startTime":1635.86,"endTime":1636.14,"body":"day."},{"startTime":1638.7,"endTime":1643.74,"body":"When you're actually coaching"},{"startTime":1638.7,"endTime":1643.74,"body":"people and if you are coaching people"},{"startTime":1643.98,"endTime":1648.14,"body":"who have maybe had the same"},{"startTime":1643.98,"endTime":1648.14,"body":"kind of experiences, negative experiences"},{"startTime":1648.14,"endTime":1651.73,"body":"that you've had in your."},{"startTime":1648.14,"endTime":1651.73,"body":"Passed over a number of years in"},{"startTime":1651.73,"endTime":1655.21,"body":"different locations in"},{"startTime":1651.73,"endTime":1655.21,"body":"different roles, how does that affect"},{"startTime":1655.29,"endTime":1659.65,"body":"you? Do you have this like"},{"startTime":1655.29,"endTime":1659.65,"body":"special coach's cloak on that protects"},{"startTime":1659.65,"endTime":1662.25,"body":"you from. From everything that"},{"startTime":1659.65,"endTime":1662.25,"body":"you hear?"},{"startTime":1662.33,"endTime":1663.77,"body":"I am a magician."},{"startTime":1665.689,"endTime":1669.33,"body":"My coach's cloak on and I'm"},{"startTime":1665.689,"endTime":1669.33,"body":"protected from anything? No. You"},{"startTime":1669.33,"endTime":1671.81,"body":"know, like if you're hearing"},{"startTime":1669.33,"endTime":1671.81,"body":"those kind of experiences and then"},{"startTime":1671.81,"endTime":1674.73,"body":"if you're relating to them, is"},{"startTime":1671.81,"endTime":1674.73,"body":"there a way that you cope with it?"},{"startTime":1674.89,"endTime":1679.67,"body":"That's a really good question."},{"startTime":1674.89,"endTime":1679.67,"body":"So when I'm coaching, and ideally"},{"startTime":1679.67,"endTime":1682.55,"body":"when most people are coaching,"},{"startTime":1679.67,"endTime":1682.55,"body":"you've got a good portion of your"},{"startTime":1682.63,"endTime":1685.59,"body":"attention focused on yourself."},{"startTime":1682.63,"endTime":1685.59,"body":"Almost like 70% of your attention"},{"startTime":1685.59,"endTime":1689.27,"body":"focused on your reactions and"},{"startTime":1685.59,"endTime":1689.27,"body":"30% on what the other person is doing"},{"startTime":1689.27,"endTime":1691.71,"body":"in their reaction. What's"},{"startTime":1689.27,"endTime":1691.71,"body":"happening for them. It's funny, I"},{"startTime":1691.71,"endTime":1694.83,"body":"always thought the percentages"},{"startTime":1691.71,"endTime":1694.83,"body":"should be the other way around. But"},{"startTime":1694.83,"endTime":1698.35,"body":"as I was diving into, you"},{"startTime":1694.83,"endTime":1698.35,"body":"know, more research, it suggested"},{"startTime":1698.35,"endTime":1701.51,"body":"it was this way around. And"},{"startTime":1698.35,"endTime":1701.51,"body":"that's because so much of what's"},{"startTime":1701.51,"endTime":1704.96,"body":"happening is happening within"},{"startTime":1701.51,"endTime":1704.96,"body":"us and we need to be so aware of"},{"startTime":1704.96,"endTime":1711.64,"body":"our reactions. And for me,"},{"startTime":1704.96,"endTime":1711.64,"body":"because I've spent so much time really"},{"startTime":1711.64,"endTime":1718.56,"body":"learning to sit with pain when"},{"startTime":1711.64,"endTime":1718.56,"body":"other people's pain arises. It doesn't"},{"startTime":1718.56,"endTime":1721.68,"body":"phase me like it might have"},{"startTime":1718.56,"endTime":1721.68,"body":"before. I don't feel the need to"},{"startTime":1721.68,"endTime":1725.2,"body":"run from it in the way I might"},{"startTime":1721.68,"endTime":1725.2,"body":"have even just a few years ago. The"},{"startTime":1725.2,"endTime":1728.48,"body":"times that it's most"},{"startTime":1725.2,"endTime":1728.48,"body":"challenging is when I'm meeting with"},{"startTime":1728.48,"endTime":1732.82,"body":"someone of my own type of."},{"startTime":1728.48,"endTime":1732.82,"body":"Because we have similar wounding,"},{"startTime":1732.98,"endTime":1736.58,"body":"even if we've had completely"},{"startTime":1732.98,"endTime":1736.58,"body":"different experiences, we're seeing"},{"startTime":1736.58,"endTime":1739.94,"body":"similar situations through"},{"startTime":1736.58,"endTime":1739.94,"body":"similar lenses. And that's the time"},{"startTime":1739.94,"endTime":1744.54,"body":"where I've. I've noticed that"},{"startTime":1739.94,"endTime":1744.54,"body":"I can freeze up a little inside and"},{"startTime":1744.54,"endTime":1747.46,"body":"get, you know, go into that"},{"startTime":1744.54,"endTime":1747.46,"body":"space of I don't know what to do"},{"startTime":1747.46,"endTime":1749.7,"body":"next, I don't know what"},{"startTime":1747.46,"endTime":1749.7,"body":"happens here, I don't know if I can"},{"startTime":1749.7,"endTime":1752.54,"body":"help you. And I think there's"},{"startTime":1749.7,"endTime":1752.54,"body":"always a moment when you're meeting"},{"startTime":1752.54,"endTime":1755.71,"body":"with someone or you have the."},{"startTime":1752.54,"endTime":1755.71,"body":"I don't know what to do next. But"},{"startTime":1755.71,"endTime":1759.71,"body":"then you're able just to relax"},{"startTime":1755.71,"endTime":1759.71,"body":"in and allow the creative moment"},{"startTime":1759.71,"endTime":1762.31,"body":"and allow the intuition and"},{"startTime":1759.71,"endTime":1762.31,"body":"just allow the present moment to"},{"startTime":1762.31,"endTime":1765.55,"body":"be whatever it needs to be and"},{"startTime":1762.31,"endTime":1765.55,"body":"to be guided by what's here and now."},{"startTime":1766.27,"endTime":1769.79,"body":"I find that easy to do except"},{"startTime":1766.27,"endTime":1769.79,"body":"for those times when I'm meeting"},{"startTime":1769.79,"endTime":1775.03,"body":"with someone of my type who is"},{"startTime":1769.79,"endTime":1775.03,"body":"feeling some of the things that I've"},{"startTime":1775.03,"endTime":1778.95,"body":"felt in the past. And in those"},{"startTime":1775.03,"endTime":1778.95,"body":"moments it can just be harder to"},{"startTime":1778.95,"endTime":1783.78,"body":"relax back into the present."},{"startTime":1778.95,"endTime":1783.78,"body":"And usually when that happens, I'll"},{"startTime":1783.78,"endTime":1787.02,"body":"just have to reflect on it and"},{"startTime":1783.78,"endTime":1787.02,"body":"work with it after the session. Generally"},{"startTime":1787.02,"endTime":1790.1,"body":"because in the session itself"},{"startTime":1787.02,"endTime":1790.1,"body":"I'm not always as it's just so tight,"},{"startTime":1790.1,"endTime":1792.7,"body":"you don't always aware with"},{"startTime":1790.1,"endTime":1792.7,"body":"it. But because I'm becoming more"},{"startTime":1792.7,"endTime":1794.94,"body":"familiar with seeing these"},{"startTime":1792.7,"endTime":1794.94,"body":"patterns that if I am working with"},{"startTime":1794.94,"endTime":1798.1,"body":"someone of my type, I can be"},{"startTime":1794.94,"endTime":1798.1,"body":"more prepared for it."},{"startTime":1799.06,"endTime":1802.42,"body":"Yeah, it makes sense, doesn't"},{"startTime":1799.06,"endTime":1802.42,"body":"it? What seems to make sense on paper"},{"startTime":1802.42,"endTime":1807.82,"body":"to me that that would be the"},{"startTime":1802.42,"endTime":1807.82,"body":"case. What are your thoughts if you"},{"startTime":1807.82,"endTime":1809.81,"body":"have them for the future?"},{"startTime":1811.01,"endTime":1814.21,"body":"I've never been good at"},{"startTime":1811.01,"endTime":1814.21,"body":"knowing what the future holds. I'm"},{"startTime":1814.21,"endTime":1818.37,"body":"terrible at planning beyond"},{"startTime":1814.21,"endTime":1818.37,"body":"just a few weeks. But what I'm really"},{"startTime":1818.77,"endTime":1822.77,"body":"doing is trying to encapsulate"},{"startTime":1818.77,"endTime":1822.77,"body":"that creative practice of just allowing"},{"startTime":1822.77,"endTime":1827.97,"body":"things to unfold, but"},{"startTime":1822.77,"endTime":1827.97,"body":"combining it with intention and getting"},{"startTime":1827.97,"endTime":1831.61,"body":"this balance between the two,"},{"startTime":1827.97,"endTime":1831.61,"body":"sort of. Right. I'm not having rigid"},{"startTime":1831.61,"endTime":1835.57,"body":"plans, but having things that"},{"startTime":1831.61,"endTime":1835.57,"body":"I want and things I'd like to manifest"},{"startTime":1836.07,"endTime":1839.59,"body":"without being attached to them"},{"startTime":1836.07,"endTime":1839.59,"body":"happening or not. But for me, the"},{"startTime":1839.59,"endTime":1845.35,"body":"focus, I think, is on the"},{"startTime":1839.59,"endTime":1845.35,"body":"Enneagram and teaching that and coaching"},{"startTime":1845.35,"endTime":1851.35,"body":"with it and helping people see"},{"startTime":1845.35,"endTime":1851.35,"body":"that it is such a deep tool for healing"},{"startTime":1851.35,"endTime":1858.35,"body":"and growth. And it's not the,"},{"startTime":1851.35,"endTime":1858.35,"body":"you know, the superficial. Here are"},{"startTime":1858.35,"endTime":1862.19,"body":"the nine types as celebrities"},{"startTime":1858.35,"endTime":1862.19,"body":"that you so often, you know, see"},{"startTime":1862.19,"endTime":1866.28,"body":"with sort of things in the way"},{"startTime":1862.19,"endTime":1866.28,"body":"they get dumbed down for the social"},{"startTime":1866.28,"endTime":1872.4,"body":"media snippets. I get this"},{"startTime":1866.28,"endTime":1872.4,"body":"sense that even though the Enneagram"},{"startTime":1872.4,"endTime":1877.12,"body":"has become almost ubiquitous"},{"startTime":1872.4,"endTime":1877.12,"body":"over the last few years, there is"},{"startTime":1877.12,"endTime":1880.68,"body":"still not a real understanding"},{"startTime":1877.12,"endTime":1880.68,"body":"of just how deep a model for development"},{"startTime":1880.84,"endTime":1884.36,"body":"and healing and growth it is."},{"startTime":1880.84,"endTime":1884.36,"body":"And I'd love people to understand"},{"startTime":1884.44,"endTime":1888.52,"body":"that more and even just to be"},{"startTime":1884.44,"endTime":1888.52,"body":"able to offer that to more people."},{"startTime":1888.84,"endTime":1892.32,"body":"And so when people are seeking"},{"startTime":1888.84,"endTime":1892.32,"body":"to use the Enneagram as part of their"},{"startTime":1892.32,"endTime":1894.69,"body":"inner work, they're not just"},{"startTime":1892.32,"endTime":1894.69,"body":"thinking. It's just about, well,"},{"startTime":1894.69,"endTime":1897.17,"body":"let's just have a conversation"},{"startTime":1894.69,"endTime":1897.17,"body":"and talk theoretically about the"},{"startTime":1897.17,"endTime":1900.65,"body":"types. No, let's actually do"},{"startTime":1897.17,"endTime":1900.65,"body":"the practices where you can experience"},{"startTime":1900.97,"endTime":1905.49,"body":"those shifts inside of you. I"},{"startTime":1900.97,"endTime":1905.49,"body":"feel like people find the Enneagram"},{"startTime":1905.49,"endTime":1910.17,"body":"when they're ready for it,"},{"startTime":1905.49,"endTime":1910.17,"body":"rather than, you know, it's something."},{"startTime":1910.33,"endTime":1916.21,"body":"It finds you, I feel, maybe"},{"startTime":1910.33,"endTime":1916.21,"body":"through this episode. Maybe through"},{"startTime":1916.21,"endTime":1917.85,"body":"this episode. Absolutely."},{"startTime":1918.33,"endTime":1922.09,"body":"With that in mind, if"},{"startTime":1918.33,"endTime":1922.09,"body":"somebody's interested, if they're."},{"startTime":1922.09,"endTime":1925.45,"body":"If they are ready for the"},{"startTime":1922.09,"endTime":1925.45,"body":"Enneagram, or if forever. Any other"},{"startTime":1925.45,"endTime":1928.01,"body":"reason. How can people connect"},{"startTime":1925.45,"endTime":1928.01,"body":"with you?"},{"startTime":1928.41,"endTime":1932.69,"body":"Well, they can find me on my"},{"startTime":1928.41,"endTime":1932.69,"body":"website, samanthamackay.com and on"},{"startTime":1932.69,"endTime":1938.13,"body":"Instagram, samanthamacki life,"},{"startTime":1932.69,"endTime":1938.13,"body":"I think, from memory and on YouTube,"},{"startTime":1938.13,"endTime":1941.09,"body":"where all the interviews are,"},{"startTime":1938.13,"endTime":1941.09,"body":"which, again, I think, is Samantha"},{"startTime":1941.09,"endTime":1945.25,"body":"Mackay, Life. No dot. And if"},{"startTime":1941.09,"endTime":1945.25,"body":"you're just interested in finding"},{"startTime":1945.25,"endTime":1948.44,"body":"your Enneagram type, there are"},{"startTime":1945.25,"endTime":1948.44,"body":"plenty of tests you can take. I always"},{"startTime":1948.44,"endTime":1952.2,"body":"encourage a paid test over a"},{"startTime":1948.44,"endTime":1952.2,"body":"free one. But the process of finding"},{"startTime":1952.2,"endTime":1956.76,"body":"your Enneagram type is it's a"},{"startTime":1952.2,"endTime":1956.76,"body":"discovery process. Truly, no one"},{"startTime":1956.76,"endTime":1960.52,"body":"can tell you your type. You"},{"startTime":1956.76,"endTime":1960.52,"body":"know, a test might confirm it, but"},{"startTime":1960.52,"endTime":1963.68,"body":"only you can know your type"},{"startTime":1960.52,"endTime":1963.68,"body":"for yourself, because no one can"},{"startTime":1963.68,"endTime":1968.12,"body":"ever be inside your head. No"},{"startTime":1963.68,"endTime":1968.12,"body":"one can notice your thoughts, experience"},{"startTime":1968.2,"endTime":1971.28,"body":"your feelings. No one ever has"},{"startTime":1968.2,"endTime":1971.28,"body":"lived inside of you. So the only"},{"startTime":1971.28,"endTime":1974.27,"body":"person who could truly see,"},{"startTime":1971.28,"endTime":1974.27,"body":"see those patterns and those sort"},{"startTime":1974.27,"endTime":1979.27,"body":"of automatic responses to"},{"startTime":1974.27,"endTime":1979.27,"body":"situations is you. And so there is"},{"startTime":1979.27,"endTime":1984.23,"body":"sort of a need to almost learn"},{"startTime":1979.27,"endTime":1984.23,"body":"to some extent about the types and"},{"startTime":1984.31,"endTime":1987.75,"body":"see how they show up within"},{"startTime":1984.31,"endTime":1987.75,"body":"you as part of that journey."},{"startTime":1989.03,"endTime":1994.11,"body":"Brilliant. Thank you so much,"},{"startTime":1989.03,"endTime":1994.11,"body":"Samantha. That has been really, really"},{"startTime":1994.11,"endTime":1994.79,"body":"interesting."},{"startTime":1995.35,"endTime":1999.12,"body":"Thank you. It's been great to"},{"startTime":1995.35,"endTime":1999.12,"body":"talk to you about  creativity a topic"},{"startTime":1999.12,"endTime":2000.24,"body":"so close to my heart."},{"startTime":2001.44,"endTime":2005.4,"body":"I hope you enjoyed this"},{"startTime":2001.44,"endTime":2005.4,"body":"episode. If you did, perhaps you'd"},{"startTime":2005.4,"endTime":2012.64,"body":"like to financially contribute"},{"startTime":2005.4,"endTime":2012.64,"body":"to future episodes at buymeacoffee.com/CreativityFound"},{"startTime":2012.72,"endTime":2016.12,"body":"There's a link in the show"},{"startTime":2012.72,"endTime":2016.12,"body":"notes. If you are listening on a"},{"startTime":2016.12,"endTime":2021.2,"body":"value for value enabled app"},{"startTime":2016.12,"endTime":2021.2,"body":"such as Fountain Truefans or Podcast"},{"startTime":2021.2,"endTime":2026.22,"body":"Guru, feel free to send a few"},{"startTime":2021.2,"endTime":2026.22,"body":"sats my way. And if you have no idea"},{"startTime":2026.22,"endTime":2029.74,"body":"of what I'm talking about, you"},{"startTime":2026.22,"endTime":2029.74,"body":"can find out more by listening to"},{"startTime":2029.74,"endTime":2034.1,"body":"my sister podcast called"},{"startTime":2029.74,"endTime":2034.1,"body":"Podcasting 2.0 In Practice."}]}