{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":8.16,"endTime":10.96,"body":"Ultimately, I didn't choose a"},{"startTime":8.16,"endTime":10.96,"body":"school that had a film department,"},{"startTime":10.96,"endTime":13.32,"body":"a film program, because I"},{"startTime":10.96,"endTime":13.32,"body":"thought, well, it would be a really"},{"startTime":13.32,"endTime":16.8,"body":"fun way to spend college, but"},{"startTime":13.32,"endTime":16.8,"body":"I'm not going to work in movies."},{"startTime":16.8,"endTime":22.16,"body":"I was a very practical 11th"},{"startTime":16.8,"endTime":22.16,"body":"grader. Apparently, I fell in love"},{"startTime":22.16,"endTime":26.2,"body":"with it. I was not good at it"},{"startTime":22.16,"endTime":26.2,"body":"at all. When I first got a camera"},{"startTime":26.2,"endTime":29.36,"body":"in my hand, I had no idea"},{"startTime":26.2,"endTime":29.36,"body":"where to point it. My frames were"},{"startTime":29.44,"endTime":33.58,"body":"off. My story was"},{"startTime":29.44,"endTime":33.58,"body":"inconsistent. But I got better. I"},{"startTime":33.58,"endTime":36.3,"body":"don't need to get up at 5"},{"startTime":33.58,"endTime":36.3,"body":"anymore. I get up about like 6:30,"},{"startTime":36.62,"endTime":39.94,"body":"have breakfast with my wife,"},{"startTime":36.62,"endTime":39.94,"body":"and then I write for about an hour"},{"startTime":39.94,"endTime":44.1,"body":"to 90 minutes and then close"},{"startTime":39.94,"endTime":44.1,"body":"my laptop, open my work laptop, and"},{"startTime":44.1,"endTime":48.219,"body":"you know, I'm at work now. Be"},{"startTime":44.1,"endTime":48.219,"body":"critical of yourself. Look at something"},{"startTime":48.219,"endTime":51.06,"body":"and go, why isn't this"},{"startTime":48.219,"endTime":51.06,"body":"working? And then figure it out from"},{"startTime":51.06,"endTime":51.34,"body":"there."},{"startTime":52.78,"endTime":57.3,"body":"Hi, I'm Claire. For this"},{"startTime":52.78,"endTime":57.3,"body":"podcast, I chat with people who have"},{"startTime":57.3,"endTime":62.13,"body":"found or refound their"},{"startTime":57.3,"endTime":62.13,"body":"creativity as adults. We'll explore"},{"startTime":62.13,"endTime":65.97,"body":"their childhood experiences of"},{"startTime":62.13,"endTime":65.97,"body":"the arts, discuss how they came to"},{"startTime":65.97,"endTime":69.93,"body":"the artistic practices they"},{"startTime":65.97,"endTime":69.93,"body":"now love, and consider the barriers"},{"startTime":69.93,"endTime":73.53,"body":"they may have experienced"},{"startTime":69.93,"endTime":73.53,"body":"between the two. We'll also explore"},{"startTime":73.61,"endTime":77.85,"body":"what it is that people value"},{"startTime":73.61,"endTime":77.85,"body":"and gain from their newfound artistic"},{"startTime":77.85,"endTime":82.01,"body":"pursuits and how their"},{"startTime":77.85,"endTime":82.01,"body":"creative lives enrich their practical,"},{"startTime":82.25,"endTime":88.09,"body":"necessary, everyday lives."},{"startTime":82.25,"endTime":88.09,"body":"This time, I'm chatting with Tyler"},{"startTime":88.09,"endTime":90.65,"body":"Schwanke. Hi, Tyler, how are you?"},{"startTime":90.89,"endTime":92.27,"body":"I'm good. How are you, Claire?"},{"startTime":92.58,"endTime":96.9,"body":"I'm very well, thank you."},{"startTime":92.58,"endTime":96.9,"body":"Start by telling me, please, about"},{"startTime":96.9,"endTime":99.7,"body":"your current creative pursuits."},{"startTime":100.42,"endTime":105.9,"body":"Absolutely. So right now, I am"},{"startTime":100.42,"endTime":105.9,"body":"a novelist. I had my first novel"},{"startTime":105.9,"endTime":110.5,"body":"come out, 2023. It's called"},{"startTime":105.9,"endTime":110.5,"body":"breaking In. It is a what I call"},{"startTime":110.5,"endTime":116.66,"body":"a coming of age comic caper"},{"startTime":110.5,"endTime":116.66,"body":"about a young film student who is"},{"startTime":116.66,"endTime":119.7,"body":"pursuing her dream goals."},{"startTime":116.66,"endTime":119.7,"body":"She's from Fargo, North Dakota, which"},{"startTime":120.14,"endTime":122.82,"body":"if you've never been there."},{"startTime":120.14,"endTime":122.82,"body":"Right now it's February, so it's"},{"startTime":122.82,"endTime":126.26,"body":"completely ice. It's like"},{"startTime":122.82,"endTime":126.26,"body":"Planet Hoth from Star Wars. It's"},{"startTime":126.26,"endTime":131.58,"body":"just freezing. And so she goes"},{"startTime":126.26,"endTime":131.58,"body":"to New York to go to this film camp."},{"startTime":131.74,"endTime":134.98,"body":"She's 17. She's going into her"},{"startTime":131.74,"endTime":134.98,"body":"senior year of high school. She's"},{"startTime":134.98,"endTime":138.82,"body":"got this script that she has"},{"startTime":134.98,"endTime":138.82,"body":"spent a couple of years writing."},{"startTime":138.82,"endTime":143.1,"body":"It's an homage to her dad who"},{"startTime":138.82,"endTime":143.1,"body":"was killed in a. In a bank heist."},{"startTime":143.26,"endTime":146.66,"body":"And so she goes there to be"},{"startTime":143.26,"endTime":146.66,"body":"part of this competition that the"},{"startTime":146.66,"endTime":150.97,"body":"camp has and to also work with"},{"startTime":146.66,"endTime":150.97,"body":"kind of her idol, this director,"},{"startTime":151.45,"endTime":156.41,"body":"Ricky o' ner, and at the end"},{"startTime":151.45,"endTime":156.41,"body":"of the film camp, the camp is actually"},{"startTime":156.41,"endTime":159.69,"body":"closed down. The academy's"},{"startTime":156.41,"endTime":159.69,"body":"closed down. We find out that Ricky"},{"startTime":159.85,"endTime":165.33,"body":"has been laundering money from"},{"startTime":159.85,"endTime":165.33,"body":"the students from his school. And"},{"startTime":165.33,"endTime":169.65,"body":"so they shut down the school."},{"startTime":165.33,"endTime":169.65,"body":"Millie sent home brokenhearted. Six,"},{"startTime":169.65,"endTime":173.13,"body":"seven months later, she's back"},{"startTime":169.65,"endTime":173.13,"body":"in Fargo. She's in the movie theater,"},{"startTime":173.45,"endTime":177.98,"body":"and she is watching the coming"},{"startTime":173.45,"endTime":177.98,"body":"attractions and sees that a trailer"},{"startTime":177.98,"endTime":181.82,"body":"for the next Ricky Onair"},{"startTime":177.98,"endTime":181.82,"body":"movie. And it's her script. He's"},{"startTime":181.82,"endTime":185.46,"body":"stolen it. And because of the"},{"startTime":181.82,"endTime":185.46,"body":"way that the camp set up, she basically"},{"startTime":185.46,"endTime":190.5,"body":"has no rights anymore. She's"},{"startTime":185.46,"endTime":190.5,"body":"given him a script. So she takes"},{"startTime":190.5,"endTime":195.54,"body":"her small but mighty film"},{"startTime":190.5,"endTime":195.54,"body":"crew, turns her film crew into a"},{"startTime":195.54,"endTime":199.58,"body":"heist crew, and they make a"},{"startTime":195.54,"endTime":199.58,"body":"plan to steal the movie. Three days"},{"startTime":199.58,"endTime":203.02,"body":"before the premiere, I get a"},{"startTime":199.58,"endTime":203.02,"body":"lot of emails from folks, like, in"},{"startTime":203.02,"endTime":206.68,"body":"kind of like, rural parts of"},{"startTime":203.02,"endTime":206.68,"body":"the Midwest that have read this and,"},{"startTime":206.68,"endTime":209.84,"body":"you know, said, I really feel"},{"startTime":206.68,"endTime":209.84,"body":"seen. Like, this is me. This is what"},{"startTime":209.84,"endTime":213.2,"body":"I've been trying to do. And"},{"startTime":209.84,"endTime":213.2,"body":"that's really cool because this is"},{"startTime":213.2,"endTime":216.44,"body":"me. Like, I'm milling in some"},{"startTime":213.2,"endTime":216.44,"body":"ways. You know, I'm a Midwest boy."},{"startTime":216.52,"endTime":220.799,"body":"Apple pie here. No, but, you"},{"startTime":216.52,"endTime":220.799,"body":"know, I don't have any Hollywood"},{"startTime":220.799,"endTime":224.4,"body":"connections or anything like"},{"startTime":220.799,"endTime":224.4,"body":"that, so it's kind of my attempt"},{"startTime":224.4,"endTime":227.76,"body":"as well, is kind of to get my"},{"startTime":224.4,"endTime":227.76,"body":"foot in the door with. With novels,"},{"startTime":227.76,"endTime":231.75,"body":"but also just. Just my love of"},{"startTime":227.76,"endTime":231.75,"body":"movies. Yeah, it's sold as a young"},{"startTime":231.75,"endTime":235.23,"body":"adult novel, and it certainly"},{"startTime":231.75,"endTime":235.23,"body":"is in some respects, but it's more"},{"startTime":235.23,"endTime":238.99,"body":"of a crossover book for me. I"},{"startTime":235.23,"endTime":238.99,"body":"get more letters, excuse me, emails,"},{"startTime":238.99,"endTime":242.59,"body":"you know, from. From adults"},{"startTime":238.99,"endTime":242.59,"body":"than I do teenagers. I think just,"},{"startTime":242.59,"endTime":244.67,"body":"you know, everybody kind of"},{"startTime":242.59,"endTime":244.67,"body":"relates to it because there's things"},{"startTime":244.67,"endTime":247.15,"body":"that you can find yourself in"},{"startTime":244.67,"endTime":247.15,"body":"it. So that's been really cool for"},{"startTime":247.15,"endTime":250.59,"body":"me. But now I'm making the"},{"startTime":247.15,"endTime":250.59,"body":"transition, trying to become like"},{"startTime":250.59,"endTime":253.63,"body":"an adult novelist, which"},{"startTime":250.59,"endTime":253.63,"body":"always sounds weird when you say"},{"startTime":253.63,"endTime":256.35,"body":"adult novelist. It sounds like"},{"startTime":253.63,"endTime":256.35,"body":"you're like a writing, like, erotic"},{"startTime":256.35,"endTime":259.42,"body":"thrillers, you know, and. And"},{"startTime":256.35,"endTime":259.42,"body":"I'm not, but, you know, just more"},{"startTime":259.42,"endTime":262.22,"body":"for, like, an adult audience."},{"startTime":259.42,"endTime":262.22,"body":"I've got two projects right now that"},{"startTime":262.22,"endTime":264.66,"body":"I'm kind of getting out into"},{"startTime":262.22,"endTime":264.66,"body":"the world, and I think I'm gonna"},{"startTime":264.66,"endTime":266.66,"body":"take a step back from the"},{"startTime":264.66,"endTime":266.66,"body":"novel for a little bit, and I think"},{"startTime":266.66,"endTime":268.9,"body":"I'm gonna try writing a"},{"startTime":266.66,"endTime":268.9,"body":"script. I haven't written a script"},{"startTime":268.9,"endTime":272.34,"body":"in, like, a decade, and it"},{"startTime":268.9,"endTime":272.34,"body":"sounds really fun to do. So I think"},{"startTime":272.34,"endTime":275.66,"body":"kind of, just while the novel"},{"startTime":272.34,"endTime":275.66,"body":"stuff is figuring itself out, I'm"},{"startTime":275.66,"endTime":278.98,"body":"gonna. I'm gonna try to write"},{"startTime":275.66,"endTime":278.98,"body":"a movie or two and see how that goes."},{"startTime":279.54,"endTime":280.26,"body":"Brilliant."},{"startTime":280.34,"endTime":280.82,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":280.82,"endTime":285.58,"body":"Wow, that sounds super"},{"startTime":280.82,"endTime":285.58,"body":"exciting. I think I was gonna mention"},{"startTime":285.58,"endTime":290.32,"body":"the autobiographical element"},{"startTime":285.58,"endTime":290.32,"body":"of the. Hopefully it didn't go quite"},{"startTime":290.32,"endTime":291.76,"body":"that far in your own experience."},{"startTime":292.16,"endTime":296.92,"body":"I did. I don't. I don't have"},{"startTime":292.16,"endTime":296.92,"body":"the Guts to do that. So. So part"},{"startTime":296.92,"endTime":299.12,"body":"of the book, and this isn't"},{"startTime":296.92,"endTime":299.12,"body":"really giving anything away, but"},{"startTime":299.36,"endTime":303.72,"body":"Millie's in to taking her"},{"startTime":299.36,"endTime":303.72,"body":"highest knowledge. Like she needs"},{"startTime":303.72,"endTime":305.92,"body":"something more than that,"},{"startTime":303.72,"endTime":305.92,"body":"right? That's not going to be enough."},{"startTime":306.0,"endTime":310.52,"body":"And she knows someone that"},{"startTime":306.0,"endTime":310.52,"body":"works for a security company. And"},{"startTime":310.52,"endTime":314.44,"body":"that came from my first job"},{"startTime":310.52,"endTime":314.44,"body":"out of college. Graduated film school,"},{"startTime":314.44,"endTime":317.64,"body":"sent my thesis films all over"},{"startTime":314.44,"endTime":317.64,"body":"the country, got into, you know,"},{"startTime":317.64,"endTime":321.08,"body":"some festivals, and it was"},{"startTime":317.64,"endTime":321.08,"body":"trying to find production work, but"},{"startTime":321.16,"endTime":325.32,"body":"I was living at home back in"},{"startTime":321.16,"endTime":325.32,"body":"my high school bedroom and was kind"},{"startTime":325.32,"endTime":329.24,"body":"of like, I need money, you"},{"startTime":325.32,"endTime":329.24,"body":"know, So I got a day job, which actually"},{"startTime":329.24,"endTime":332.28,"body":"was more of a night job. It"},{"startTime":329.24,"endTime":332.28,"body":"was a second shift forward and midnight"},{"startTime":332.36,"endTime":335.36,"body":"working for a security"},{"startTime":332.36,"endTime":335.36,"body":"company. So that's kind of where"},{"startTime":335.36,"endTime":338.6,"body":"the idea came from of like,"},{"startTime":335.36,"endTime":338.6,"body":"originally this book was just like"},{"startTime":338.6,"endTime":341.76,"body":"kind of a down in his luck"},{"startTime":338.6,"endTime":341.76,"body":"filmmaker, really trying to make"},{"startTime":341.76,"endTime":345.56,"body":"a break for it and thought, I"},{"startTime":341.76,"endTime":345.56,"body":"have this job, I have access to codes."},{"startTime":346.1,"endTime":349.46,"body":"You know, maybe I could. I"},{"startTime":346.1,"endTime":349.46,"body":"could pull off a heist of my own,"},{"startTime":349.46,"endTime":353.78,"body":"use that money to make my own"},{"startTime":349.46,"endTime":353.78,"body":"film. So the original kind of concept"},{"startTime":353.78,"endTime":356.78,"body":"and I never got further than"},{"startTime":353.78,"endTime":356.78,"body":"just kind of writing this, this down."},{"startTime":356.78,"endTime":359.14,"body":"You know, when I was, when I"},{"startTime":356.78,"endTime":359.14,"body":"was working for the security company,"},{"startTime":359.14,"endTime":362.259,"body":"I jot down notes on a piece of"},{"startTime":359.14,"endTime":362.259,"body":"paper and kind of collect that. But"},{"startTime":362.26,"endTime":365.62,"body":"the idea was like, oh, maybe I"},{"startTime":362.26,"endTime":365.62,"body":"could like rob a Costco and then"},{"startTime":365.62,"endTime":368.22,"body":"use that money. And then I was"},{"startTime":365.62,"endTime":368.22,"body":"like, well, how would you rob a car?"},{"startTime":368.22,"endTime":371.94,"body":"Like you break into a Costco,"},{"startTime":368.22,"endTime":371.94,"body":"what do you do after that? Like,"},{"startTime":371.94,"endTime":375.54,"body":"where, like, Costco's don't"},{"startTime":371.94,"endTime":375.54,"body":"have safes. I don't think, like they"},{"startTime":375.54,"endTime":378.24,"body":"probably, you know, deposit"},{"startTime":375.54,"endTime":378.24,"body":"their money at the end. So it just."},{"startTime":378.24,"endTime":381.2,"body":"That was kind of like this"},{"startTime":378.24,"endTime":381.2,"body":"kind of comical idea of like they"},{"startTime":381.2,"endTime":383.4,"body":"plan all this and then they"},{"startTime":381.2,"endTime":383.4,"body":"really have no idea what they're"},{"startTime":383.4,"endTime":385.8,"body":"doing. And then it's really"},{"startTime":383.4,"endTime":385.8,"body":"just kind of an escape at that point."},{"startTime":385.8,"endTime":388.4,"body":"Like, can they get out of the"},{"startTime":385.8,"endTime":388.4,"body":"Costco before the cops get them?"},{"startTime":388.56,"endTime":390.52,"body":"So number one, I was never"},{"startTime":388.56,"endTime":390.52,"body":"going to try that, but I thought"},{"startTime":390.52,"endTime":394.56,"body":"it was fun as far as kind of a"},{"startTime":390.52,"endTime":394.56,"body":"story. And then it kind of just grew"},{"startTime":394.56,"endTime":397.2,"body":"from there, where I thought,"},{"startTime":394.56,"endTime":397.2,"body":"that's not very sympathetic. You're"},{"startTime":397.2,"endTime":400.2,"body":"not really going to rally"},{"startTime":397.2,"endTime":400.2,"body":"around a dollar. And as like filmmaker"},{"startTime":400.2,"endTime":404.28,"body":"that thinks stealing is the"},{"startTime":400.2,"endTime":404.28,"body":"answer, right? So that's kind of"},{"startTime":404.28,"endTime":408.71,"body":"where the idea of the script"},{"startTime":404.28,"endTime":408.71,"body":"being stolen kind of came into play."},{"startTime":408.87,"endTime":412.07,"body":"She can still be the good guy"},{"startTime":408.87,"endTime":412.07,"body":"because the other person is the bad"},{"startTime":412.07,"endTime":414.31,"body":"guy, right? You can be on her side."},{"startTime":414.39,"endTime":417.83,"body":"That's kind of the golden"},{"startTime":414.39,"endTime":417.83,"body":"rule, right? Like, your protagonist"},{"startTime":417.99,"endTime":421.39,"body":"doesn't have to be perfect can"},{"startTime":417.99,"endTime":421.39,"body":"have defaults, but somebody else"},{"startTime":421.39,"endTime":422.67,"body":"has got to be worse, right?"},{"startTime":422.67,"endTime":426.43,"body":"Yeah. Before we get onto"},{"startTime":422.67,"endTime":426.43,"body":"actually going to film school, when"},{"startTime":426.43,"endTime":433.19,"body":"you were much younger, did you"},{"startTime":426.43,"endTime":433.19,"body":"have positive creative experiences"},{"startTime":433.35,"endTime":435.83,"body":"as a child at home or at school?"},{"startTime":436.56,"endTime":440.6,"body":"Yeah, absolutely. My parents"},{"startTime":436.56,"endTime":440.6,"body":"read to me at a very early age. I"},{"startTime":440.6,"endTime":444.68,"body":"loved reading. I would read my"},{"startTime":440.6,"endTime":444.68,"body":"Goosebump books and then kind of"},{"startTime":444.68,"endTime":447.56,"body":"run out of, you know, I'd go"},{"startTime":444.68,"endTime":447.56,"body":"through them all in like, in two"},{"startTime":447.56,"endTime":450.8,"body":"days. So I would start reading"},{"startTime":447.56,"endTime":450.8,"body":"my parents books, whatever they had,"},{"startTime":450.8,"endTime":453.48,"body":"you know. So I'd read like"},{"startTime":450.8,"endTime":453.48,"body":"Michael Crichton's Jurassic park"},{"startTime":453.48,"endTime":456.56,"body":"and the Client by John Grissom"},{"startTime":453.48,"endTime":456.56,"body":"when I was like in second grade."},{"startTime":456.56,"endTime":458.96,"body":"And then I started coming up"},{"startTime":456.56,"endTime":458.96,"body":"with just kind of my own stories."},{"startTime":459.2,"endTime":464.48,"body":"And my. My mom was the like,"},{"startTime":459.2,"endTime":464.48,"body":"classroom mob, right? That she would"},{"startTime":464.48,"endTime":467.04,"body":"come in the helper and she"},{"startTime":464.48,"endTime":467.04,"body":"would come in, like, help with projects"},{"startTime":467.04,"endTime":469.62,"body":"and that kind of stuff. And"},{"startTime":467.04,"endTime":469.62,"body":"one of projects, we did this really"},{"startTime":469.62,"endTime":473.58,"body":"cool thing where we got to"},{"startTime":469.62,"endTime":473.58,"body":"write these. These stories. And then"},{"startTime":473.74,"endTime":477.34,"body":"my mom would go and type up"},{"startTime":473.74,"endTime":477.34,"body":"everybody's like, 10 page story."},{"startTime":477.82,"endTime":481.74,"body":"And then kind of laminated. It"},{"startTime":477.82,"endTime":481.74,"body":"was. It was this kind of. It was"},{"startTime":481.74,"endTime":484.82,"body":"like a hard cover, front and"},{"startTime":481.74,"endTime":484.82,"body":"back with like the pages inside."},{"startTime":484.82,"endTime":487.62,"body":"And then it was like, I don't"},{"startTime":484.82,"endTime":487.62,"body":"know, glued inside or something like"},{"startTime":487.62,"endTime":490.54,"body":"that. And then, you know, we"},{"startTime":487.62,"endTime":490.54,"body":"would get it back and then we would"},{"startTime":490.54,"endTime":493.18,"body":"draw on it. We would like,"},{"startTime":490.54,"endTime":493.18,"body":"draw the covers and we draw pictures"},{"startTime":493.18,"endTime":497.55,"body":"in it. So I have like. I made"},{"startTime":493.18,"endTime":497.55,"body":"up my own version of Goosebumps because"},{"startTime":497.55,"endTime":501.31,"body":"I was huge into those. That's"},{"startTime":497.55,"endTime":501.31,"body":"how my mom and dad got me to behave,"},{"startTime":501.31,"endTime":505.07,"body":"was if I'm good, you know, the"},{"startTime":501.31,"endTime":505.07,"body":"next month I get the next Goosebumps"},{"startTime":505.07,"endTime":508.23,"body":"book, because they came out"},{"startTime":505.07,"endTime":508.23,"body":"every month. Yeah, so. So I wrote"},{"startTime":508.23,"endTime":511.67,"body":"my own Goosebumps books and it"},{"startTime":508.23,"endTime":511.67,"body":"was called Chills. And it was only"},{"startTime":512.23,"endTime":516.03,"body":"one book. And I read it a"},{"startTime":512.23,"endTime":516.03,"body":"couple years ago. I found it when"},{"startTime":516.03,"endTime":520.0,"body":"I was going through old stuff"},{"startTime":516.03,"endTime":520.0,"body":"and it's terrible. And there's a."},{"startTime":520.4,"endTime":523.72,"body":"And also, like, Goosebumps is"},{"startTime":520.4,"endTime":523.72,"body":"about, like, mysteries and like,"},{"startTime":523.72,"endTime":526.96,"body":"kind of supernatural stuff."},{"startTime":523.72,"endTime":526.96,"body":"And this is about a teacher that"},{"startTime":527.28,"endTime":530.24,"body":"I don't know. There was a lot"},{"startTime":527.28,"endTime":530.24,"body":"of gun violence and I was like, this"},{"startTime":530.24,"endTime":533.28,"body":"is a lot for a first grader."},{"startTime":530.24,"endTime":533.28,"body":"Like, oh my goodness. So, yeah, I"},{"startTime":533.28,"endTime":535.68,"body":"mean, it was just. It was a"},{"startTime":533.28,"endTime":535.68,"body":"lot of fun. And I got to write a"},{"startTime":535.68,"endTime":538.92,"body":"couple things like that. It"},{"startTime":535.68,"endTime":538.92,"body":"kind of came and went. I didn't like,"},{"startTime":538.92,"endTime":541.72,"body":"you know, totally grow up"},{"startTime":538.92,"endTime":541.72,"body":"writing stories, but I always wanted"},{"startTime":541.72,"endTime":545.08,"body":"to write in some capacity. I"},{"startTime":541.72,"endTime":545.08,"body":"remember when I saw Harriet the Spy,"},{"startTime":545.08,"endTime":548.17,"body":"I probably was like, in sixth"},{"startTime":545.08,"endTime":548.17,"body":"grade, maybe for like two weeks,"},{"startTime":548.17,"endTime":551.49,"body":"I spied at all my neighbors,"},{"startTime":548.17,"endTime":551.49,"body":"and I jot everything down in a notebook."},{"startTime":551.65,"endTime":555.05,"body":"But then I gave it up because"},{"startTime":551.65,"endTime":555.05,"body":"it was super boring. You know, like,"},{"startTime":555.05,"endTime":557.41,"body":"I'd be rolling around the"},{"startTime":555.05,"endTime":557.41,"body":"neighborhood and, like, sitting behind,"},{"startTime":557.41,"endTime":559.97,"body":"you know, air conditioners,"},{"startTime":557.41,"endTime":559.97,"body":"watching people, like, mow their"},{"startTime":559.97,"endTime":564.77,"body":"lawn or sip lemonade. And it"},{"startTime":559.97,"endTime":564.77,"body":"was like, this is. Yeah, this isn't"},{"startTime":564.77,"endTime":567.49,"body":"really. This isn't really that"},{"startTime":564.77,"endTime":567.49,"body":"exciting. I don't think I'm going"},{"startTime":567.49,"endTime":570.89,"body":"to be a spy. It was like the"},{"startTime":567.49,"endTime":570.89,"body":"jotting down, right? The fun stuff."},{"startTime":570.89,"endTime":574.86,"body":"And then. And then just even"},{"startTime":570.89,"endTime":574.86,"body":"like in junior high, I wrote. I took"},{"startTime":574.86,"endTime":578.54,"body":"a notebook and was writing a"},{"startTime":574.86,"endTime":578.54,"body":"movie script or what I thought a"},{"startTime":578.54,"endTime":581.02,"body":"movie script should look like."},{"startTime":578.54,"endTime":581.02,"body":"I didn't know about, like, slug lines"},{"startTime":581.02,"endTime":584.38,"body":"and action and all that kind"},{"startTime":581.02,"endTime":584.38,"body":"of stuff, but it was called Premiere,"},{"startTime":584.38,"endTime":587.38,"body":"and it took place at a. At a"},{"startTime":584.38,"endTime":587.38,"body":"Hollywood premiere, which is fitting"},{"startTime":587.38,"endTime":590.619,"body":"because the third act of"},{"startTime":587.38,"endTime":590.619,"body":"Breaking in takes place at a Hollywood"},{"startTime":590.619,"endTime":594.22,"body":"premiere. But it was like, the"},{"startTime":590.619,"endTime":594.22,"body":"characters didn't actually have character"},{"startTime":594.22,"endTime":598.34,"body":"names. They were Will Smith,"},{"startTime":594.22,"endTime":598.34,"body":"Jennifer Love Hewitt, I think, like"},{"startTime":598.34,"endTime":604.84,"body":"DiCaprio, and then me. I was"},{"startTime":598.34,"endTime":604.84,"body":"in there. And, yeah, Jennifer Lefebvre"},{"startTime":604.84,"endTime":607.92,"body":"was definitely my love"},{"startTime":604.84,"endTime":607.92,"body":"interest. So, you know, this is just"},{"startTime":607.92,"endTime":611.4,"body":"an eighth grader hoping, you"},{"startTime":607.92,"endTime":611.4,"body":"know, dreams come to fruition. So."},{"startTime":611.56,"endTime":616.0,"body":"But yeah, and, you know, just"},{"startTime":611.56,"endTime":616.0,"body":"definitely, again, story, whether"},{"startTime":616.0,"endTime":622.36,"body":"or not it's in a film or TV or"},{"startTime":616.0,"endTime":622.36,"body":"the novel form, you know, something"},{"startTime":622.36,"endTime":625.28,"body":"that I've just always loved,"},{"startTime":622.36,"endTime":625.28,"body":"always had a passion for and, you"},{"startTime":625.28,"endTime":628.52,"body":"know, kind of tried stuff on"},{"startTime":625.28,"endTime":628.52,"body":"my own here and there as I grew up."},{"startTime":629.13,"endTime":633.13,"body":"Yeah. So then tell me about"},{"startTime":629.13,"endTime":633.13,"body":"higher education."},{"startTime":634.17,"endTime":638.45,"body":"When I went to college, I"},{"startTime":634.17,"endTime":638.45,"body":"toured a lot of places that had film"},{"startTime":638.45,"endTime":642.41,"body":"departments. And I remember"},{"startTime":638.45,"endTime":642.41,"body":"thinking, like, ultimately I didn't"},{"startTime":642.41,"endTime":645.37,"body":"choose a school that had a"},{"startTime":642.41,"endTime":645.37,"body":"film department, a film program,"},{"startTime":645.37,"endTime":648.41,"body":"because I thought, well, it'd"},{"startTime":645.37,"endTime":648.41,"body":"be a really fun way to spend college."},{"startTime":648.41,"endTime":653.25,"body":"But I'm not going to work in"},{"startTime":648.41,"endTime":653.25,"body":"movies. I was a very practical 11th"},{"startTime":653.25,"endTime":658.42,"body":"grader, apparently. So I"},{"startTime":653.25,"endTime":658.42,"body":"picked a school that had a good journalism"},{"startTime":658.42,"endTime":661.06,"body":"program. I thought it'd be"},{"startTime":658.42,"endTime":661.06,"body":"cool to be, like, a music critic,"},{"startTime":661.06,"endTime":664.1,"body":"Right. So, you know, the dream"},{"startTime":661.06,"endTime":664.1,"body":"job at the time was like, to write"},{"startTime":664.1,"endTime":668.82,"body":"for Rolling Stone. I did one"},{"startTime":664.1,"endTime":668.82,"body":"semester, like, I didn't pick a major."},{"startTime":668.82,"endTime":672.14,"body":"I just did, like, a couple"},{"startTime":668.82,"endTime":672.14,"body":"classes. And then I decided that,"},{"startTime":672.38,"endTime":676.06,"body":"well, you have to, like, write"},{"startTime":672.38,"endTime":676.06,"body":"for, like, small papers for not a"},{"startTime":676.06,"endTime":679.22,"body":"lot of money, and you have no"},{"startTime":676.06,"endTime":679.22,"body":"work life balance, and there's no"},{"startTime":679.22,"endTime":682.18,"body":"guarantee. And there was just"},{"startTime":679.22,"endTime":682.18,"body":"so much stuff that it said. I don't."},{"startTime":682.18,"endTime":685.64,"body":"I don't know about that. So I"},{"startTime":682.18,"endTime":685.64,"body":"just kind of like, you know, went"},{"startTime":685.64,"endTime":688.0,"body":"to school for a couple years,"},{"startTime":685.64,"endTime":688.0,"body":"just kind of Figuring stuff out."},{"startTime":688.0,"endTime":691.8,"body":"And then filmmaking was not at"},{"startTime":688.0,"endTime":691.8,"body":"the school I was at, but was at the"},{"startTime":691.8,"endTime":695.48,"body":"school across the river,"},{"startTime":691.8,"endTime":695.48,"body":"Minnesota State University. At the"},{"startTime":695.48,"endTime":698.28,"body":"time when I went there, it was"},{"startTime":695.48,"endTime":698.28,"body":"just, it was straight film. And we"},{"startTime":698.28,"endTime":701.64,"body":"actually like shot like on"},{"startTime":698.28,"endTime":701.64,"body":"like Super 8 and we would cut and"},{"startTime":701.64,"endTime":704.56,"body":"splice and all this stuff that"},{"startTime":701.64,"endTime":704.56,"body":"now I don't think they do anymore,"},{"startTime":704.56,"endTime":707.28,"body":"right, because there's,"},{"startTime":704.56,"endTime":707.28,"body":"there's very few labs that can process"},{"startTime":707.44,"endTime":710.2,"body":"the film. But I just thought,"},{"startTime":707.44,"endTime":710.2,"body":"you know, I thought, well, I'll get"},{"startTime":710.2,"endTime":713.12,"body":"my genitals done. And I picked"},{"startTime":710.2,"endTime":713.12,"body":"some classes that kind of filled"},{"startTime":713.12,"endTime":718.11,"body":"in some of the liberal arts"},{"startTime":713.12,"endTime":718.11,"body":"requirements, right. And just thought"},{"startTime":718.11,"endTime":720.23,"body":"this would be interesting. I"},{"startTime":718.11,"endTime":720.23,"body":"can just kind of learn more about"},{"startTime":720.23,"endTime":723.43,"body":"something that I've always"},{"startTime":720.23,"endTime":723.43,"body":"loved. And I fell in love with it."},{"startTime":723.51,"endTime":727.95,"body":"I was not good at it at all. I"},{"startTime":723.51,"endTime":727.95,"body":"was very. When I first got a camera"},{"startTime":727.95,"endTime":731.11,"body":"in my hand, I had no idea"},{"startTime":727.95,"endTime":731.11,"body":"where to point it. My frames were"},{"startTime":731.19,"endTime":734.79,"body":"off. My story was"},{"startTime":731.19,"endTime":734.79,"body":"inconsistent. But I got better, right?"},{"startTime":734.87,"endTime":738.99,"body":"And I actually went to. I took"},{"startTime":734.87,"endTime":738.99,"body":"a year off. Me and one of my best"},{"startTime":738.99,"endTime":742.47,"body":"friends from high school, we"},{"startTime":738.99,"endTime":742.47,"body":"went to New York for a year. So I"},{"startTime":742.47,"endTime":746.32,"body":"went from Fargo, North Dakota"},{"startTime":742.47,"endTime":746.32,"body":"to New York, which is quite a culture"},{"startTime":746.32,"endTime":751.0,"body":"shock, right? So I went to"},{"startTime":746.32,"endTime":751.0,"body":"this one year film program and really"},{"startTime":751.0,"endTime":754.88,"body":"just learned so much in such a"},{"startTime":751.0,"endTime":754.88,"body":"short amount of time. But all the"},{"startTime":754.88,"endTime":758.36,"body":"technical aspects of it. But I"},{"startTime":754.88,"endTime":758.36,"body":"definitely fell in love more with"},{"startTime":758.36,"endTime":761.6,"body":"like learning about script"},{"startTime":758.36,"endTime":761.6,"body":"writing and story beats and that"},{"startTime":761.6,"endTime":765.76,"body":"kind of stuff. So when that"},{"startTime":761.6,"endTime":765.76,"body":"finished up, I went back to Moorhead"},{"startTime":765.76,"endTime":768.4,"body":"to finish my, my degree. You"},{"startTime":765.76,"endTime":768.4,"body":"know, I thought that was important,"},{"startTime":768.64,"endTime":772.08,"body":"but also took a English"},{"startTime":768.64,"endTime":772.08,"body":"creative writing emphasis as well."},{"startTime":772.08,"endTime":774.52,"body":"So I was, I was a double"},{"startTime":772.08,"endTime":774.52,"body":"major, film production and English"},{"startTime":774.52,"endTime":778.16,"body":"creative writing. So I learned"},{"startTime":774.52,"endTime":778.16,"body":"so much about story through the English"},{"startTime":778.16,"endTime":781.48,"body":"creative writing program. You"},{"startTime":778.16,"endTime":781.48,"body":"know, that helped, helped me when"},{"startTime":781.48,"endTime":784.08,"body":"it came to script writing and"},{"startTime":781.48,"endTime":784.08,"body":"also storytelling and just saying,"},{"startTime":784.08,"endTime":786.84,"body":"you know, like, where do I"},{"startTime":784.08,"endTime":786.84,"body":"need to put the camera to convey"},{"startTime":786.84,"endTime":791.76,"body":"the story to the audience? And"},{"startTime":786.84,"endTime":791.76,"body":"that's really where I learned storytelling"},{"startTime":791.84,"endTime":795.08,"body":"and really influenced my novel"},{"startTime":791.84,"endTime":795.08,"body":"writing. So I think everybody kind"},{"startTime":795.08,"endTime":798.04,"body":"of comes at their writing a"},{"startTime":795.08,"endTime":798.04,"body":"book from, from different avenues."},{"startTime":798.04,"endTime":804.18,"body":"For me, I like to outline and"},{"startTime":798.04,"endTime":804.18,"body":"I overwrite by quite a lot because"},{"startTime":804.18,"endTime":808.3,"body":"I want every idea to be on the"},{"startTime":804.18,"endTime":808.3,"body":"page for that first draft. And then"},{"startTime":808.3,"endTime":811.54,"body":"that way I can read the whole"},{"startTime":808.3,"endTime":811.54,"body":"thing and really see what the, what"},{"startTime":811.54,"endTime":815.3,"body":"the story is about, right? And"},{"startTime":811.54,"endTime":815.3,"body":"then edits and cuts and stuff from"},{"startTime":815.3,"endTime":817.86,"body":"there. It's the same thing you"},{"startTime":815.3,"endTime":817.86,"body":"do in film production, right? You"},{"startTime":817.86,"endTime":820.9,"body":"shoot as much stuff as"},{"startTime":817.86,"endTime":820.9,"body":"possible. You watch the footage and"},{"startTime":820.9,"endTime":823.46,"body":"then you say, where's my"},{"startTime":820.9,"endTime":823.46,"body":"story? What's working? What's not"},{"startTime":823.46,"endTime":826.75,"body":"working, and then put it"},{"startTime":823.46,"endTime":826.75,"body":"together from there. So that's really"},{"startTime":826.75,"endTime":830.59,"body":"where all of this that came"},{"startTime":826.75,"endTime":830.59,"body":"from. And then when I graduated again,"},{"startTime":830.59,"endTime":833.71,"body":"you know, like I mentioned"},{"startTime":830.59,"endTime":833.71,"body":"earlier, I went to the job working"},{"startTime":833.71,"endTime":836.79,"body":"for the security company and"},{"startTime":833.71,"endTime":836.79,"body":"that was through a staffing company."},{"startTime":836.95,"endTime":840.39,"body":"So gradually I ended up"},{"startTime":836.95,"endTime":840.39,"body":"working for the staffing company"},{"startTime":840.39,"endTime":844.11,"body":"as a recruiter. I did that for"},{"startTime":840.39,"endTime":844.11,"body":"like a year. And then I transitioned"},{"startTime":844.11,"endTime":847.47,"body":"over to recruitment for a"},{"startTime":844.11,"endTime":847.47,"body":"healthcare company. I've been doing"},{"startTime":847.47,"endTime":851.53,"body":"that in one form or another"},{"startTime":847.47,"endTime":851.53,"body":"for over a decade now. But the healthcare"},{"startTime":851.53,"endTime":855.89,"body":"company that I worked for had"},{"startTime":851.53,"endTime":855.89,"body":"tuition assistance. They would pay"},{"startTime":856.05,"endTime":860.69,"body":"$2,500 a year and that was"},{"startTime":856.05,"endTime":860.69,"body":"enough for me to take one class at"},{"startTime":860.69,"endTime":864.61,"body":"Hamlin for my mfa. And I"},{"startTime":860.69,"endTime":864.61,"body":"didn't really care too much about"},{"startTime":864.61,"endTime":868.61,"body":"like completing the mfa. It"},{"startTime":864.61,"endTime":868.61,"body":"was just more of a. I'd started writing"},{"startTime":868.61,"endTime":872.41,"body":"a novel before any kind of"},{"startTime":868.61,"endTime":872.41,"body":"classes and I just sat down, said,"},{"startTime":872.41,"endTime":875.33,"body":"I'm going to write a novel."},{"startTime":872.41,"endTime":875.33,"body":"And when it was done, it was okay."},{"startTime":875.33,"endTime":877.73,"body":"But I could tell there's a lot"},{"startTime":875.33,"endTime":877.73,"body":"of things that I just needed help"},{"startTime":877.73,"endTime":882.01,"body":"on and I wanted feedback right"},{"startTime":877.73,"endTime":882.01,"body":"from people that it's not my, my"},{"startTime":882.01,"endTime":885.33,"body":"mom or my wife, you know,"},{"startTime":882.01,"endTime":885.33,"body":"somebody that's going to be like,"},{"startTime":885.33,"endTime":888.89,"body":"dude, this part sucks. You"},{"startTime":885.33,"endTime":888.89,"body":"know, this, this is slowing you down."},{"startTime":889.69,"endTime":893.41,"body":"So I wanted to have that kind"},{"startTime":889.69,"endTime":893.41,"body":"of workshop feel. So I, I went in"},{"startTime":893.41,"endTime":898.25,"body":"for my MFA and then it took me"},{"startTime":893.41,"endTime":898.25,"body":"about 10 years and I sold Breaking"},{"startTime":898.25,"endTime":901.57,"body":"in before I completed my mfa."},{"startTime":898.25,"endTime":901.57,"body":"And it wasn't something that I was"},{"startTime":901.57,"endTime":905.89,"body":"working on for the school. So"},{"startTime":901.57,"endTime":905.89,"body":"I would take like one class one semester"},{"startTime":905.89,"endTime":908.57,"body":"and then the next semester I"},{"startTime":905.89,"endTime":908.57,"body":"would work on my own writing. It"},{"startTime":908.57,"endTime":911.93,"body":"was a really good balance and,"},{"startTime":908.57,"endTime":911.93,"body":"you know, helped me really kind of"},{"startTime":911.93,"endTime":916.85,"body":"advance my novel writing and"},{"startTime":911.93,"endTime":916.85,"body":"take kind of what I knew from filmmaking"},{"startTime":916.85,"endTime":920.53,"body":"and transition into the novel."},{"startTime":916.85,"endTime":920.53,"body":"I was really lucky that this company"},{"startTime":920.53,"endTime":924.05,"body":"that, you know, was willing to"},{"startTime":920.53,"endTime":924.05,"body":"pay for that. And then, and then"},{"startTime":924.05,"endTime":927.13,"body":"Covid hit and I split from"},{"startTime":924.05,"endTime":927.13,"body":"there. So I didn't even. I just like"},{"startTime":927.13,"endTime":928.37,"body":"took the degree and left."},{"startTime":928.85,"endTime":933.29,"body":"Going back then before COVID"},{"startTime":928.85,"endTime":933.29,"body":"and talking about balance, as you've"},{"startTime":933.29,"endTime":937.14,"body":"mentioned, how are you"},{"startTime":933.29,"endTime":937.14,"body":"balancing and fitting it in? Because"},{"startTime":937.14,"endTime":942.22,"body":"you've mentioned obviously the"},{"startTime":937.14,"endTime":942.22,"body":"full time job, the classes, the actual"},{"startTime":942.22,"endTime":946.58,"body":"writing, your wife, you know,"},{"startTime":942.22,"endTime":946.58,"body":"how is this all fitting together"},{"startTime":946.58,"endTime":948.18,"body":"for you in your everyday life?"},{"startTime":948.5,"endTime":952.74,"body":"Absolutely. So my wife is"},{"startTime":948.5,"endTime":952.74,"body":"incredibly supportive. She knows"},{"startTime":952.82,"endTime":956.5,"body":"how important this is to me,"},{"startTime":952.82,"endTime":956.5,"body":"how, how much I've always wanted"},{"startTime":956.5,"endTime":959.75,"body":"to, to pursue this and"},{"startTime":956.5,"endTime":959.75,"body":"especially at the beginning where"},{"startTime":959.75,"endTime":962.87,"body":"I didn't know what that would"},{"startTime":959.75,"endTime":962.87,"body":"look like. You know, I had heard"},{"startTime":962.87,"endTime":965.83,"body":"that it's good to have a"},{"startTime":962.87,"endTime":965.83,"body":"routine, it's good to Kind of fall"},{"startTime":965.83,"endTime":971.47,"body":"into a pattern. So I thought,"},{"startTime":965.83,"endTime":971.47,"body":"okay. And at first it was just weekends."},{"startTime":971.47,"endTime":973.83,"body":"I would write, I'd be like,"},{"startTime":971.47,"endTime":973.83,"body":"Saturday, I'm not doing anything"},{"startTime":973.83,"endTime":976.67,"body":"else. And I would Write for"},{"startTime":973.83,"endTime":976.67,"body":"like 10 hours. And it was, it was"},{"startTime":976.67,"endTime":980.07,"body":"fun. But after a while that"},{"startTime":976.67,"endTime":980.07,"body":"kind of takes its toll, right? You"},{"startTime":980.07,"endTime":983.51,"body":"know, your body's all stiff,"},{"startTime":980.07,"endTime":983.51,"body":"I'm sitting at a desk all day. And"},{"startTime":983.51,"endTime":986.36,"body":"then kind of balancing with"},{"startTime":983.51,"endTime":986.36,"body":"school and everything, I figured"},{"startTime":986.36,"endTime":990.84,"body":"out a way to take those 10"},{"startTime":986.36,"endTime":990.84,"body":"hours, break it up over the course"},{"startTime":990.84,"endTime":994.12,"body":"of a week. So I'm not doing"},{"startTime":990.84,"endTime":994.12,"body":"all of this. And also the story is"},{"startTime":994.12,"endTime":997.72,"body":"staying fresh because that's a"},{"startTime":994.12,"endTime":997.72,"body":"big thing too, right? Is, is you"},{"startTime":997.72,"endTime":1002.08,"body":"write Saturday, maybe a little"},{"startTime":997.72,"endTime":1002.08,"body":"bit Sunday. I would read the stuff"},{"startTime":1002.08,"endTime":1005.12,"body":"over the week because I wanted"},{"startTime":1002.08,"endTime":1005.12,"body":"to at least be productive. I wanted"},{"startTime":1005.12,"endTime":1007.84,"body":"to be doing something. But I"},{"startTime":1005.12,"endTime":1007.84,"body":"was editing as I was going over the"},{"startTime":1007.84,"endTime":1010.96,"body":"week just so I could do"},{"startTime":1007.84,"endTime":1010.96,"body":"something. And I don't do that anymore"},{"startTime":1010.96,"endTime":1013.92,"body":"because I think it's important"},{"startTime":1010.96,"endTime":1013.92,"body":"to just let the first draft be the"},{"startTime":1013.92,"endTime":1017.4,"body":"first draft and then read the"},{"startTime":1013.92,"endTime":1017.4,"body":"whole thing and find out where your"},{"startTime":1017.4,"endTime":1019.92,"body":"story is. Right. So I was"},{"startTime":1017.4,"endTime":1019.92,"body":"editing stuff and then I'd be like,"},{"startTime":1019.92,"endTime":1022.48,"body":"oh, I need to go back, fix"},{"startTime":1019.92,"endTime":1022.48,"body":"this. Because I made this change"},{"startTime":1022.48,"endTime":1025.4,"body":"and it's like, that's all"},{"startTime":1022.48,"endTime":1025.4,"body":"second draft stuff. Don't worry about"},{"startTime":1025.4,"endTime":1027.88,"body":"going back because you'll"},{"startTime":1025.4,"endTime":1027.88,"body":"never get the first draft done if"},{"startTime":1027.88,"endTime":1032.12,"body":"you do that. So just write it"},{"startTime":1027.88,"endTime":1032.12,"body":"as it is. So I started getting up"},{"startTime":1032.36,"endTime":1036.6,"body":"like five in the morning and I"},{"startTime":1032.36,"endTime":1036.6,"body":"would write for about 90 minutes"},{"startTime":1036.76,"endTime":1040.24,"body":"before going to work. So an"},{"startTime":1036.76,"endTime":1040.24,"body":"hour to 90 minutes and then, you"},{"startTime":1040.24,"endTime":1044.059,"body":"know, go shower and get"},{"startTime":1040.24,"endTime":1044.059,"body":"dressed and go into work. Eventually"},{"startTime":1044.059,"endTime":1048.899,"body":"I was, I was able to like, I"},{"startTime":1044.059,"endTime":1048.899,"body":"work from home now, so I don't need"},{"startTime":1048.899,"endTime":1051.379,"body":"to worry too. I don't need to"},{"startTime":1048.899,"endTime":1051.379,"body":"get up at 5 anymore. I get up about"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1051.379,"endTime":1055.459,"body":"30, have breakfast with"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1051.379,"endTime":1055.459,"body":"my wife and then I write for about"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1055.459,"endTime":1059.819,"body":"an hour to 90 minutes and then"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1055.459,"endTime":1059.819,"body":"close my laptop, open my work laptop"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1059.819,"endTime":1062.619,"body":"and you know, I'm at work now."},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1059.819,"endTime":1062.619,"body":"So it's been, it's been really great."},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1062.619,"endTime":1065.739,"body":"And then that way again, the"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1062.619,"endTime":1065.739,"body":"story's fresh. I'm writing every"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1065.739,"endTime":1069.01,"body":"day. I'm being consistent and"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1065.739,"endTime":1069.01,"body":"I'm getting words on the page. Really,"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1069.01,"endTime":1073.21,"body":"you just have to prioritize. I"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1069.01,"endTime":1073.21,"body":"have met so many great writers that"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1073.21,"endTime":1078.49,"body":"are way stronger than I feel I"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1073.21,"endTime":1078.49,"body":"am, that have some really good short"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1078.49,"endTime":1081.69,"body":"stories and parts of a novel,"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1078.49,"endTime":1081.69,"body":"but I think it's hard for them to"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1081.69,"endTime":1084.69,"body":"find the rhythm right. And"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1081.69,"endTime":1084.69,"body":"they also have full time jobs and"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1084.77,"endTime":1089.17,"body":"it really has to be like your"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1084.77,"endTime":1089.17,"body":"second job and you can't call in"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1089.17,"endTime":1092.97,"body":"sick. Right. You know, because"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1089.17,"endTime":1092.97,"body":"if you do, the only thing that's"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1092.97,"endTime":1095.32,"body":"going to happen is you're not"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1092.97,"endTime":1095.32,"body":"going to finish your book, you're"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1095.32,"endTime":1097.84,"body":"not going to finish your short"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1095.32,"endTime":1097.84,"body":"story or whatever it is that you're"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1097.84,"endTime":1101.48,"body":"working on. So I've just"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1097.84,"endTime":1101.48,"body":"always treated it like that as my,"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1101.48,"endTime":1105.96,"body":"as my second job. Again, I"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1101.48,"endTime":1105.96,"body":"can't sell anything if I don't finish"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1105.96,"endTime":1109.52,"body":"it. So that's always been kind"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1105.96,"endTime":1109.52,"body":"of the driving force for me is, is"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1109.52,"endTime":1113.68,"body":"making time, prioritizing."},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1109.52,"endTime":1113.68,"body":"Sometimes you just say, I can't do"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1113.68,"endTime":1116.48,"body":"that this weekend because I"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1113.68,"endTime":1116.48,"body":"have this going on, or I can't do"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1116.48,"endTime":1119.84,"body":"it until this time because in"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1116.48,"endTime":1119.84,"body":"the mornings I'm writing, you know,"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1119.84,"endTime":1123.62,"body":"and that's, that's consistent."},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1119.84,"endTime":1123.62,"body":"And unless I'm like, out of the country,"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1123.78,"endTime":1126.98,"body":"I got a vacation or something"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1123.78,"endTime":1126.98,"body":"like that, you know, I'm writing"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1126.98,"endTime":1127.54,"body":"every day."},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1127.94,"endTime":1131.94,"body":"Wow. And talking of selling,"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1127.94,"endTime":1131.94,"body":"how was that working out in your"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1131.94,"endTime":1136.34,"body":"head as you were writing? So"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1131.94,"endTime":1136.34,"body":"was it like, I've sold the plot,"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1136.34,"endTime":1139.58,"body":"so I've got to write it, or"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1136.34,"endTime":1139.58,"body":"was it, I'm writing it when I'm finished"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1139.58,"endTime":1143.02,"body":"it and I'm happy with it, I'll"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1139.58,"endTime":1143.02,"body":"try and sell it, or was it going"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1143.02,"endTime":1145.7,"body":"to be a self publishing? What"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1143.02,"endTime":1145.7,"body":"was your thought process?"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1146.34,"endTime":1150.94,"body":"Yeah, I've never been really"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1146.34,"endTime":1150.94,"body":"interested in self publishing. Not"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1150.94,"endTime":1154.5,"body":"that I'm against it by any"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1150.94,"endTime":1154.5,"body":"means. I'm. I'm not. It just wasn't"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1154.5,"endTime":1158.78,"body":"something that I think"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1154.5,"endTime":1158.78,"body":"motivated me. And what I mean by"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1158.78,"endTime":1162.42,"body":"that is, again, this is just"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1158.78,"endTime":1162.42,"body":"me, right, deciding that I want to"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1162.42,"endTime":1165.06,"body":"write a book and I want it to"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1162.42,"endTime":1165.06,"body":"be in bookstores. I didn't even think"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1165.06,"endTime":1167.86,"body":"about an audiobook. And it's"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1165.06,"endTime":1167.86,"body":"an audiobook now. And it's so cool"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1167.86,"endTime":1170.7,"body":"because it's like a radio"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1167.86,"endTime":1170.7,"body":"play. It was a component that I never"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1170.7,"endTime":1173.94,"body":"considered, has been one of"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1170.7,"endTime":1173.94,"body":"the really great surprises about"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1173.94,"endTime":1178.98,"body":"this. But for me, it was, I"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1173.94,"endTime":1178.98,"body":"want to find an agent because I know"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1179.06,"endTime":1182.7,"body":"that helps get it published,"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1179.06,"endTime":1182.7,"body":"right? If I knew a trick or I didn't"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1182.7,"endTime":1184.9,"body":"need an agent and I could go"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1182.7,"endTime":1184.9,"body":"right to the publisher, I would,"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1184.9,"endTime":1187.66,"body":"I would have done that. But I"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1184.9,"endTime":1187.66,"body":"didn't. So I thought, okay, this"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1187.66,"endTime":1191.14,"body":"is going to be the first step."},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1187.66,"endTime":1191.14,"body":"So, no, I never thought about anything"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1191.38,"endTime":1195.54,"body":"other than finish the"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1191.38,"endTime":1195.54,"body":"completed book, have friends, family,"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1195.62,"endTime":1200.14,"body":"read it, give feedback, you"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1195.62,"endTime":1200.14,"body":"know, workshop it until it's just"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1200.14,"endTime":1204.33,"body":"exactly what I want and then"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1200.14,"endTime":1204.33,"body":"go out and do the querying. And I"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1204.33,"endTime":1207.49,"body":"should say that, you know,"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1204.33,"endTime":1207.49,"body":"Breaking in was my third novel I"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1207.49,"endTime":1210.89,"body":"finished. I wrote two other"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1207.49,"endTime":1210.89,"body":"books prior to that, so one before"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1210.89,"endTime":1214.57,"body":"I started my MFA program and"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1210.89,"endTime":1214.57,"body":"then one kind of towards the beginning,"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1214.97,"endTime":1218.41,"body":"I queried, and I probably sent"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1214.97,"endTime":1218.41,"body":"over to a hundred agents for each"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1218.41,"endTime":1221.57,"body":"one and got some read"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1218.41,"endTime":1221.57,"body":"throughs, but I never, you know,"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1221.57,"endTime":1226.49,"body":"got an offer. And I can tell a"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1221.57,"endTime":1226.49,"body":"lot of why, because, you know, certain"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1226.49,"endTime":1231.09,"body":"things about my characters,"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1226.49,"endTime":1231.09,"body":"the arcs, the plots, too much at"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1231.09,"endTime":1234.25,"body":"some time, you know, over"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1231.09,"endTime":1234.25,"body":"sharing details, getting bogged down,"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1234.41,"endTime":1237.25,"body":"not enough, maybe when it"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1234.41,"endTime":1237.25,"body":"counts. So it was a learning tool"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1237.25,"endTime":1240.69,"body":"for me. And, you know, so some"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1237.25,"endTime":1240.69,"body":"people say, like, have you ever tried"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1240.69,"endTime":1243.37,"body":"to go get those published,"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1240.69,"endTime":1243.37,"body":"those. Those other novels published?"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1243.37,"endTime":1246.37,"body":"And absolutely not. I don't"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1243.37,"endTime":1246.37,"body":"want them. I don't want them out"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1246.37,"endTime":1248.13,"body":"there. And people be like,"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1246.37,"endTime":1248.13,"body":"this is, you know, this is the kind"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1248.13,"endTime":1250.89,"body":"of writer he is. Because I've"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1248.13,"endTime":1250.89,"body":"grown so much from that. But I'm"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1250.89,"endTime":1253.53,"body":"grateful that I wrote those."},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1250.89,"endTime":1253.53,"body":"Like, that's important to me. That"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1253.53,"endTime":1256.97,"body":"was just as important as my"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1253.53,"endTime":1256.97,"body":"MFA program. You learn so much by"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1256.97,"endTime":1260.52,"body":"doing. You learned what"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1256.97,"endTime":1260.52,"body":"doesn't work pretty quickly, right?"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1260.52,"endTime":1263.68,"body":"You can see it, you can read"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1260.52,"endTime":1263.68,"body":"it, and it kind of stands out. So,"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1263.68,"endTime":1267.44,"body":"you know, make sure to be"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1263.68,"endTime":1267.44,"body":"open, be critical of yourself. Look"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1267.44,"endTime":1270.44,"body":"at something and go, why isn't"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1267.44,"endTime":1270.44,"body":"this working? And then figure it"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1270.44,"endTime":1273.719,"body":"out from there. So once I got"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1270.44,"endTime":1273.719,"body":"breaking into a point where I felt,"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1273.719,"endTime":1278.2,"body":"okay, great, I'm gonna try to"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1273.719,"endTime":1278.2,"body":"get an agent, I had a friend of mine,"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1278.2,"endTime":1282.6,"body":"he's another writer, Robert"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1278.2,"endTime":1282.6,"body":"Kirbeck. He writes mainly nonfiction."},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1282.6,"endTime":1286.08,"body":"He's written a lot about,"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1282.6,"endTime":1286.08,"body":"actually the wildfires that are happening"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1286.08,"endTime":1289.44,"body":"right now in la. He had a book"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1286.08,"endTime":1289.44,"body":"come out called Malibu Burning a"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1289.44,"endTime":1293.28,"body":"couple years ago, which is"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1289.44,"endTime":1293.28,"body":"about the fires in Malibu. He told"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1293.28,"endTime":1296.04,"body":"me about this company that's"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1293.28,"endTime":1296.04,"body":"now out of business, unfortunately,"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1296.04,"endTime":1300.04,"body":"called Writers Relief. And"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1296.04,"endTime":1300.04,"body":"basically you would fill out a form"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1300.04,"endTime":1303.0,"body":"and say, you know, this is"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1300.04,"endTime":1303.0,"body":"what my book's about. This is where"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1303.0,"endTime":1306.04,"body":"it takes place. This is the"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1303.0,"endTime":1306.04,"body":"genre, all that kind of stuff. And"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1306.04,"endTime":1310.08,"body":"then they sent you a list of"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1306.04,"endTime":1310.08,"body":"like 30 agents that would be interested"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1310.08,"endTime":1313.85,"body":"in your type of book. So I"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1310.08,"endTime":1313.85,"body":"used that, and I think within the"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1313.85,"endTime":1316.01,"body":"first 15 queries, I got an offer."},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1316.25,"endTime":1316.73,"body":"Wow."},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1316.97,"endTime":1321.33,"body":"Yeah. The other two books a"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1316.97,"endTime":1321.33,"body":"year each maybe more. For the second"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1321.33,"endTime":1323.93,"body":"one, I think I spent a lot of"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1321.33,"endTime":1323.93,"body":"time, right. Over a hundred agents,"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1324.25,"endTime":1327.61,"body":"a lot of reads, nothing. This"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1324.25,"endTime":1327.61,"body":"one, within two weeks, I haven't,"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1327.61,"endTime":1331.49,"body":"you know, so I was like, wow,"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1327.61,"endTime":1331.49,"body":"okay, cool. You know, and I think"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1331.49,"endTime":1334.77,"body":"again, that's just because I"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1331.49,"endTime":1334.77,"body":"learned so much. I learned what didn't"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1334.77,"endTime":1337.77,"body":"work and put it into what"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1334.77,"endTime":1337.77,"body":"does. So I signed with my agents,"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1338.35,"endTime":1340.99,"body":"and then we started sending"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1338.35,"endTime":1340.99,"body":"out a little bit. And then Covid"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1341.07,"endTime":1344.19,"body":"hit. He told me, look,"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1341.07,"endTime":1344.19,"body":"everything's kind of just shut down"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1344.19,"endTime":1347.07,"body":"at this point. And people"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1344.19,"endTime":1347.07,"body":"aren't reading. I'm not hearing things."},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1347.15,"endTime":1350.19,"body":"So we're just going to kind of"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1347.15,"endTime":1350.19,"body":"pause and wait. So we really did"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1350.19,"endTime":1353.23,"body":"kind of wait for about a year"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1350.19,"endTime":1353.23,"body":"before he started sending it back"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1353.23,"endTime":1357.51,"body":"out again. And then we met up"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1353.23,"endTime":1357.51,"body":"with Boxstone Publishing. They loved"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1357.51,"endTime":1361.95,"body":"the book and then we signed"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1357.51,"endTime":1361.95,"body":"with them. And then I learned how"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1361.95,"endTime":1365.45,"body":"long publishing takes. So I"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1361.95,"endTime":1365.45,"body":"got an offer. Oh my gosh. I think"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1365.45,"endTime":1371.65,"body":"it was like November 2021 and"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1365.45,"endTime":1371.65,"body":"then May of 2023. So that's like"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1371.65,"endTime":1374.57,"body":"18 months later. Right. The"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1371.65,"endTime":1374.57,"body":"book came out. But it was, you know,"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1374.57,"endTime":1379.25,"body":"it was really educational from"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1374.57,"endTime":1379.25,"body":"just the publishing, you know, aspect"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1379.25,"endTime":1382.29,"body":"of working with an editor for"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1379.25,"endTime":1382.29,"body":"the first time. I had never worked"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1382.29,"endTime":1386.41,"body":"with an editor outside of a"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1382.29,"endTime":1386.41,"body":"couple literary magazines and journals"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1386.41,"endTime":1390.17,"body":"that maybe they said, you"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1386.41,"endTime":1390.17,"body":"know, they would send over a revised"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1390.17,"endTime":1393.13,"body":"vision of my story and say,"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1390.17,"endTime":1393.13,"body":"these are some suggestions, but if"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1393.13,"endTime":1396.15,"body":"you don't like them, whatever."},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1393.13,"endTime":1396.15,"body":"And I'd be like, okay. And this is"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1396.15,"endTime":1399.63,"body":"like, no, I think you need to"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1396.15,"endTime":1399.63,"body":"do this. And this is why. And we"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1399.63,"endTime":1403.19,"body":"need you to write this, you"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1399.63,"endTime":1403.19,"body":"know, and, and, you know, so we actually"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1403.19,"endTime":1406.47,"body":"beefed up the book a little"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1403.19,"endTime":1406.47,"body":"bit. It was 84,000 when we sold it"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1406.47,"endTime":1409.95,"body":"and it was published at"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1406.47,"endTime":1409.95,"body":"93,000. And that was, that was really"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1409.95,"endTime":1412.87,"body":"educational for me. And, you"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1409.95,"endTime":1412.87,"body":"know, stuff that I had took into"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1412.87,"endTime":1416.15,"body":"my writing and have applied it"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1412.87,"endTime":1416.15,"body":"to the projects I'm working on now."},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1416.15,"endTime":1419.59,"body":"I got to learn about COVID"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1416.15,"endTime":1419.59,"body":"design. I actually got cover approval,"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1419.59,"endTime":1422.55,"body":"which I hear never happened."},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1419.59,"endTime":1422.55,"body":"So that was, that was really cool."},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1422.89,"endTime":1425.45,"body":"Yeah. You know, and then just,"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1422.89,"endTime":1425.45,"body":"just having it out there, doing some"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1425.45,"endTime":1428.41,"body":"book signings, talking on"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1425.45,"endTime":1428.41,"body":"podcasts, you know, it's been, it's"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1428.41,"endTime":1429.13,"body":"been a lot of fun."},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1429.77,"endTime":1434.17,"body":"How long would you estimate,"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1429.77,"endTime":1434.17,"body":"how long was the whole kind of writing"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1434.17,"endTime":1438.809,"body":"process, including the two"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1434.17,"endTime":1438.809,"body":"novels that you don't want people"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1438.809,"endTime":1442.69,"body":"to see? How long were you"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1438.809,"endTime":1442.69,"body":"honing your craft, do you think,"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1442.69,"endTime":1444.01,"body":"to get to this point?"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1444.49,"endTime":1448.65,"body":"Yeah, I've been writing"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1444.49,"endTime":1448.65,"body":"fiction in the novel form since 2011."},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1449.13,"endTime":1455.57,"body":"Yeah. So 14 years. Yeah. Yeah."},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1449.13,"endTime":1455.57,"body":"So. And it took me eight years, three"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1455.57,"endTime":1457.13,"body":"books to get an agent."},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1457.45,"endTime":1457.93,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1458.01,"endTime":1458.81,"body":"So, yeah."},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1458.97,"endTime":1465.81,"body":"Yeah. And from a, an overall"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1458.97,"endTime":1465.81,"body":"well being, lifestyle point of view,"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1465.81,"endTime":1469.09,"body":"I mean, you've told us about"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1465.81,"endTime":1469.09,"body":"the logistics of your lifestyle and"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1469.09,"endTime":1471.65,"body":"when you write or when you"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1469.09,"endTime":1471.65,"body":"work and when you speak with your"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1471.65,"endTime":1475.33,"body":"wife. But does having this,"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1471.65,"endTime":1475.33,"body":"does having this writing practice,"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1476.04,"endTime":1479.56,"body":"do you think it complements"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1476.04,"endTime":1479.56,"body":"other aspects of your life?"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1480.52,"endTime":1484.92,"body":"I think so, because it"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1480.52,"endTime":1484.92,"body":"scratches an itch that I have. Right."},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1485.08,"endTime":1489.52,"body":"So in my day job, it's not"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1485.08,"endTime":1489.52,"body":"super creative. Right. I'm a recruiter."},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1489.52,"endTime":1492.6,"body":"I, I go out and find People to"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1489.52,"endTime":1492.6,"body":"work for a healthcare company. But"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1492.6,"endTime":1495.28,"body":"I think it's all about work,"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1492.6,"endTime":1495.28,"body":"life, balance. And so me starting"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1495.28,"endTime":1498.28,"body":"off my day doing what I"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1495.28,"endTime":1498.28,"body":"absolutely love and then getting"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1498.28,"endTime":1502.76,"body":"the opportunity to still have"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1498.28,"endTime":1502.76,"body":"a full time job, I do love that aspect"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1502.76,"endTime":1506.72,"body":"as well. But it's just, it's"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1502.76,"endTime":1506.72,"body":"okay when I'm, when I'm having it,"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1506.72,"endTime":1509.32,"body":"my day job, it's not me going,"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1506.72,"endTime":1509.32,"body":"oh, I wish I was doing this, I wish"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1509.32,"endTime":1511.68,"body":"I was doing that. It's like,"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1509.32,"endTime":1511.68,"body":"you already did that today. You got"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1511.68,"endTime":1515.36,"body":"to do that aspect. You know,"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1511.68,"endTime":1515.36,"body":"it also helps just kind of like thinking"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1515.36,"endTime":1517.96,"body":"outside of the box, you know,"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1515.36,"endTime":1517.96,"body":"when it comes to kind of different"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1517.96,"endTime":1521.48,"body":"things in a different"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1517.96,"endTime":1521.48,"body":"perspective. A lot of my coworkers"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1522.04,"endTime":1525.4,"body":"and people that I work with"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1522.04,"endTime":1525.4,"body":"come from a business administration"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1525.56,"endTime":1528.84,"body":"background or they come from a"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1525.56,"endTime":1528.84,"body":"human resources background, you know,"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1528.84,"endTime":1532.48,"body":"and I'm like, well, I did film"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1528.84,"endTime":1532.48,"body":"production and if you want to talk"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1532.48,"endTime":1537.64,"body":"Beowulf, I can eek, eek it"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1532.48,"endTime":1537.64,"body":"out. You know, I can tell, I can"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1537.64,"endTime":1541.52,"body":"tell you what my teacher"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1537.64,"endTime":1541.52,"body":"wanted me to take from it. But so"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1541.52,"endTime":1544.04,"body":"I think, yeah, I mean, it's"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1541.52,"endTime":1544.04,"body":"really just kind of, you know, it's"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1544.04,"endTime":1547.4,"body":"opened up other avenues where,"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1544.04,"endTime":1547.4,"body":"you know, I never really thought"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1547.4,"endTime":1550.52,"body":"I'd be like on podcast for"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1547.4,"endTime":1550.52,"body":"this and I've loved that part of"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1550.52,"endTime":1554.36,"body":"it. You know, I've done about"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1550.52,"endTime":1554.36,"body":"16 of them and I didn't realize how"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1554.36,"endTime":1557.97,"body":"much I love talking about the"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1554.36,"endTime":1557.97,"body":"creative process. And when I get"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1557.97,"endTime":1561.77,"body":"emails. This last one I got"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1557.97,"endTime":1561.77,"body":"was from a gentleman that said his"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1561.77,"endTime":1566.05,"body":"son is an actor looking to go"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1561.77,"endTime":1566.05,"body":"into film school, I think this coming"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1566.05,"endTime":1569.69,"body":"fall. And he had heard me on a"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1566.05,"endTime":1569.69,"body":"podcast and that's how he found the"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1569.69,"endTime":1572.69,"body":"book. And so I just thought"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1569.69,"endTime":1572.69,"body":"that was super cool and nothing I"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1572.93,"endTime":1577.13,"body":"never really put into play."},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1572.93,"endTime":1577.13,"body":"Right. You know, never really gave"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1577.13,"endTime":1580.37,"body":"serious thought about. So it's"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1577.13,"endTime":1580.37,"body":"been fun. Kind of different aspects"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1580.37,"endTime":1583.29,"body":"of that. And then I got to be"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1580.37,"endTime":1583.29,"body":"on a morning show. It was a local"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1583.29,"endTime":1587.11,"body":"morning show for North Dakota"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1583.29,"endTime":1587.11,"body":"Today shot in Fargo. So that was"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1587.11,"endTime":1590.35,"body":"fun. You know, I was on TV and"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1587.11,"endTime":1590.35,"body":"I didn't totally embarrass myself."},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1590.43,"endTime":1594.63,"body":"So, you know, big win there."},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1590.43,"endTime":1594.63,"body":"I've never watched it. That's the"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1594.63,"endTime":1597.71,"body":"thing. I've also learned I've"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1594.63,"endTime":1597.71,"body":"never listened to any of my podcasts"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1597.71,"endTime":1601.67,"body":"and I've never watched myself"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1597.71,"endTime":1601.67,"body":"on tv. So yeah, I just, I have no"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1601.67,"endTime":1606.11,"body":"interest. I hope it goes well."},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1601.67,"endTime":1606.11,"body":"I hope this feel, this feels good."},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1606.27,"endTime":1608.99,"body":"But I'm not going to go back"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1606.27,"endTime":1608.99,"body":"and. Because I think I would just"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1608.99,"endTime":1613.39,"body":"nitpick and I think it would"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1608.99,"endTime":1613.39,"body":"be easy to get like over involved"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1613.39,"endTime":1616.79,"body":"in that aspect of it. Worrying"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1613.39,"endTime":1616.79,"body":"Too much. I think the biggest thing"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1616.79,"endTime":1619.19,"body":"for me is I just, I hope"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1616.79,"endTime":1619.19,"body":"people realize that I'm just trying"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1619.19,"endTime":1623.15,"body":"to be authentic. I'm telling"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1619.19,"endTime":1623.15,"body":"you how much work it is not. So you're"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1623.15,"endTime":1625.43,"body":"like, oh, okay, we get it,"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1623.15,"endTime":1625.43,"body":"dude. You know? Yeah, yeah, you."},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1625.43,"endTime":1629.27,"body":"You did it. No, I'm saying you"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1625.43,"endTime":1629.27,"body":"could do it too. It just takes a"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1629.27,"endTime":1632.51,"body":"really long time and not for"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1629.27,"endTime":1632.51,"body":"everybody. Some people know somebody"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1632.51,"endTime":1635.43,"body":"or they're just like the"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1632.51,"endTime":1635.43,"body":"world's greatest writer and takes"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1635.43,"endTime":1640.08,"body":"one draft. Awesome. Cool. That"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1635.43,"endTime":1640.08,"body":"didn't work for me. That never happened"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1640.08,"endTime":1643.56,"body":"for me. And this is what I've"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1640.08,"endTime":1643.56,"body":"done. And so it's just, it's fun"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1643.56,"endTime":1646.92,"body":"to kind of share that with"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1643.56,"endTime":1646.92,"body":"other people and in different aspects."},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1646.92,"endTime":1652.28,"body":"Like right now, for me, I draw"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1646.92,"endTime":1652.28,"body":"a lot of inspiration from, from writers,"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1652.28,"endTime":1656.08,"body":"but also like actors,"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1652.28,"endTime":1656.08,"body":"musicians, people that really kind"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1656.08,"endTime":1659.16,"body":"of struggle and take a lot of,"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1656.08,"endTime":1659.16,"body":"a lot of time. You know, like Chapel"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1659.16,"endTime":1662.8,"body":"Rowan. Right. Like a couple of"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1659.16,"endTime":1662.8,"body":"years ago she was doing Pink Pony"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1662.8,"endTime":1664.77,"body":"Club at like, barbecues."},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1665.09,"endTime":1665.53,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1665.53,"endTime":1670.05,"body":"You know, or like community"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1665.53,"endTime":1670.05,"body":"events. And now she's on the Grammys,"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1670.05,"endTime":1673.93,"body":"you know, like, dude, cool."},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1670.05,"endTime":1673.93,"body":"Good on you. Well, how did that work"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1673.93,"endTime":1676.97,"body":"for her? She didn't stop. She"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1673.93,"endTime":1676.97,"body":"continues. She worked on it. She"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1676.97,"endTime":1679.77,"body":"perfected it. And I think"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1676.97,"endTime":1679.77,"body":"that's, I think that's really, really"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1679.77,"endTime":1684.13,"body":"important to, to know that if"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1679.77,"endTime":1684.13,"body":"this isn't going to be your full"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1684.13,"endTime":1686.81,"body":"time job at the beginning, you"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1684.13,"endTime":1686.81,"body":"still have to treat it like, like"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1686.81,"endTime":1688.69,"body":"a second full time job and really."},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1688.77,"endTime":1694.19,"body":"Commit yourself is something"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1688.77,"endTime":1694.19,"body":"that this podcast we talk a lot about."},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1695.39,"endTime":1702.51,"body":"And a lot of my guests a have"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1695.39,"endTime":1702.51,"body":"a job and then do their other creative"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1702.51,"endTime":1706.11,"body":"thing that they want to be"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1702.51,"endTime":1706.11,"body":"doing alongside that. And again,"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1706.11,"endTime":1709.47,"body":"we have talked a lot about the"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1706.11,"endTime":1709.47,"body":"amount of time we're being realistic"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1709.47,"endTime":1712.15,"body":"here. You don't just do a"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1709.47,"endTime":1712.15,"body":"thing and then all of a sudden it's"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1712.15,"endTime":1715.79,"body":"a wonderful thing that"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1712.15,"endTime":1715.79,"body":"everybody knows about and it's really"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1715.79,"endTime":1720.02,"body":"useful for everyone that's"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1715.79,"endTime":1720.02,"body":"listening to know, oh, that person"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1720.5,"endTime":1723.94,"body":"has gone through what I'm"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1720.5,"endTime":1723.94,"body":"going through now. I'm not the only"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1723.94,"endTime":1727.66,"body":"one that is slogging through"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1723.94,"endTime":1727.66,"body":"this. So that's the reality and the"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1727.66,"endTime":1731.58,"body":"authenticity is very, very"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1727.66,"endTime":1731.58,"body":"important. And if you were to listen"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1731.58,"endTime":1734.86,"body":"back to this podcast, I'm sure"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1731.58,"endTime":1734.86,"body":"you wouldn't be nitpicking any of"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1734.86,"endTime":1735.14,"body":"it."},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1736.18,"endTime":1737.98,"body":"We'll see. I don't know about"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1736.18,"endTime":1737.98,"body":"that, but."},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1737.98,"endTime":1741.14,"body":"Yeah, but I don't mind if you"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1737.98,"endTime":1741.14,"body":"don't listen."},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1741.22,"endTime":1742.87,"body":"I mean, I'd be nitpicking"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1741.22,"endTime":1742.87,"body":"about me."},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1743.1,"endTime":1749.1,"body":"Yeah, I know. Yeah, I'll edit"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1743.1,"endTime":1749.1,"body":"beautifully. You'd be perfect. How"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1749.1,"endTime":1751.26,"body":"can people connect with you, Tyler?"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1751.58,"endTime":1755.34,"body":"Yeah, So I have a website that"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1751.58,"endTime":1755.34,"body":"has links to all my social really"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1755.34,"endTime":1758.14,"body":"probably Instagram and my"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1755.34,"endTime":1758.14,"body":"Facebook page is going to be the"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1758.14,"endTime":1761.54,"body":"bigger ones. So that's where"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1758.14,"endTime":1761.54,"body":"when this comes out I will put it"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1761.54,"endTime":1764.58,"body":"on my socials, encourage"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1761.54,"endTime":1764.58,"body":"people to come find me. And then"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1764.58,"endTime":1767.86,"body":"my website also has links to"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1764.58,"endTime":1767.86,"body":"where you can order the book and"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1767.86,"endTime":1770.39,"body":"then also just learn about,"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1767.86,"endTime":1770.39,"body":"you know, different opportunities"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1770.71,"endTime":1772.07,"body":"and stuff that I have coming out."},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1772.31,"endTime":1773.75,"body":"And what was the website called?"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1773.83,"endTime":1777.11,"body":"Just Tyler Schwanke.com lovely."},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1777.35,"endTime":1780.43,"body":"Thank you so much Tyler. It's"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1777.35,"endTime":1780.43,"body":"been really lovely to speak with"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1780.43,"endTime":1780.71,"body":"you."},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1780.87,"endTime":1782.55,"body":"You too, Claire. I appreciate"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1780.87,"endTime":1782.55,"body":"the time."},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1784.07,"endTime":1788.11,"body":"I hope you enjoyed this"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1784.07,"endTime":1788.11,"body":"episode. If you did, perhaps you'd"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1788.11,"endTime":1795.2,"body":"like to financially contribute"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1788.11,"endTime":1795.2,"body":"to future episodes at buymeacoffee.com/creativityfound."},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1795.36,"endTime":1798.76,"body":"There's a link in the Show"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1795.36,"endTime":1798.76,"body":"Notes. If you are listening on a"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1798.76,"endTime":1803.84,"body":"value for value enabled app"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1798.76,"endTime":1803.84,"body":"such as Fountain TrueFans or Podcast"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1803.84,"endTime":1808.84,"body":"Guru, feel free to send a few"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1803.84,"endTime":1808.84,"body":"sats my way. And if you have no idea"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1808.84,"endTime":1812.36,"body":"of what I'm talking about, you"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1808.84,"endTime":1812.36,"body":"can find out more by listening to"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1812.36,"endTime":1816.8,"body":"my sister podcast called"},{"speaker":"like 6","startTime":1812.36,"endTime":1816.8,"body":"Podcasting 2.0 in Practice."}]}