{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":0.0,"endTime":3.15,"body":"Hi. Stay"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":0.0,"endTime":3.15,"body":"tuned until the very end to find"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":3.15,"endTime":5.82,"body":"out about a special offer from"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":3.15,"endTime":5.82,"body":"this week's guest."},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":80.58,"endTime":83.88,"body":"This time, I'm chatting with"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":80.58,"endTime":83.88,"body":"award winning author, Deborah"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":83.88,"endTime":87.9,"body":"Martin, whose foray into writing"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":83.88,"endTime":87.9,"body":"started with an evening class,"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":88.17,"endTime":94.02,"body":"but took her much further than"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":88.17,"endTime":94.02,"body":"she expected. Hi, Debra. Hi. You"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":94.02,"endTime":97.95,"body":"studied English literature and"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":94.02,"endTime":97.95,"body":"fine art at university. But your"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":97.95,"endTime":101.97,"body":"recent return to creative"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":97.95,"endTime":101.97,"body":"writing happened 11 years ago,"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":102.45,"endTime":105.72,"body":"can you tell me how and why you"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":102.45,"endTime":105.72,"body":"started writing?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":106.02,"endTime":110.4,"body":"Well, I only started"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":106.02,"endTime":110.4,"body":"writing really because sadly, it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":110.4,"endTime":114.51,"body":"was because of a traumatic event"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":110.4,"endTime":114.51,"body":"in my life, my husband died of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":114.69,"endTime":119.58,"body":"pancreatic cancer. So it'd been"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":114.69,"endTime":119.58,"body":"a pretty awful time for me and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":119.58,"endTime":123.6,"body":"my my two daughters who were"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":119.58,"endTime":123.6,"body":"quite young at the time. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":123.81,"endTime":127.08,"body":"life for me at the time was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":123.81,"endTime":127.08,"body":"really just revolving around"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":127.14,"endTime":132.0,"body":"work family sorting things out."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":127.14,"endTime":132.0,"body":"And I just felt I needed a bit"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":132.0,"endTime":135.12,"body":"of space for myself. And the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":132.0,"endTime":135.12,"body":"only thing I could think of to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":135.12,"endTime":139.32,"body":"do was I can evening class. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":135.12,"endTime":139.32,"body":"as I went to a creative writing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":139.32,"endTime":143.19,"body":"class, and completely new to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":139.32,"endTime":143.19,"body":"what I've been doing, because at"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":143.19,"endTime":147.57,"body":"university, of course, it was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":143.19,"endTime":147.57,"body":"critiquing fine literature. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":147.6,"endTime":152.1,"body":"so very different kind of way of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":147.6,"endTime":152.1,"body":"looking at reading and so on."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":152.4,"endTime":155.28,"body":"But I think that set me up for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":152.4,"endTime":155.28,"body":"actually understanding what good"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":155.28,"endTime":158.7,"body":"literature was. So it's a great"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":155.28,"endTime":158.7,"body":"help of reading is the most"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":158.7,"endTime":163.14,"body":"amazing way of learning how to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":158.7,"endTime":163.14,"body":"write in fact. So I went to this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":163.14,"endTime":167.28,"body":"creative writing class, I wrote"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":163.14,"endTime":167.28,"body":"a short story, it was terrible."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":168.72,"endTime":172.08,"body":"But I really enjoyed doing it."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":168.72,"endTime":172.08,"body":"And it sort of set me off to do"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":172.08,"endTime":175.23,"body":"another one. And we had various"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":172.08,"endTime":175.23,"body":"little assignments to do. And by"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":175.23,"endTime":178.47,"body":"the end of it, I was actually"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":175.23,"endTime":178.47,"body":"starting to really enjoy writing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":178.47,"endTime":181.77,"body":"and having ideas of my own. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":178.47,"endTime":181.77,"body":"it sort of set me off doing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":181.77,"endTime":187.59,"body":"other things. I entered a little"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":181.77,"endTime":187.59,"body":"competition, I poems was cited"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":187.77,"endTime":191.4,"body":"for a recommendation and read"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":187.77,"endTime":191.4,"body":"out to the audience at the award"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":191.4,"endTime":195.12,"body":"ceremony. So that was like a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":191.4,"endTime":195.12,"body":"massive pat on the back. It was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":195.12,"endTime":199.53,"body":"very pleased with that. And I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":195.12,"endTime":199.53,"body":"started thinking about writing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":199.56,"endTime":204.21,"body":"longer things and short stories,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":199.56,"endTime":204.21,"body":"and my older daughter was quite"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":204.21,"endTime":207.96,"body":"instrumental in in pushing me on"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":204.21,"endTime":207.96,"body":"with that, because we always had"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":207.96,"endTime":211.11,"body":"this little bit of a sparring"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":207.96,"endTime":211.11,"body":"relationship between us, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":211.11,"endTime":213.93,"body":"know, I would say, Oh, I think I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":211.11,"endTime":213.93,"body":"might do this. And she'd say, Go"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":213.93,"endTime":217.35,"body":"on then. And, or she would say,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":213.93,"endTime":217.35,"body":"I was interested in this. And I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":217.35,"endTime":221.22,"body":"said, Well find out about it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":217.35,"endTime":221.22,"body":"then. So she pushed me on. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":221.7,"endTime":226.74,"body":"via NaNoWriMo, which is National"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":221.7,"endTime":226.74,"body":"Novel Writing Month in November,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":227.34,"endTime":232.35,"body":"which is like an online platform"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":227.34,"endTime":232.35,"body":"for people who are writers or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":232.35,"endTime":237.33,"body":"would be writers to actually get"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":232.35,"endTime":237.33,"body":"into the grip of writing and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":237.33,"endTime":241.47,"body":"actually try and write something"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":237.33,"endTime":241.47,"body":"like 50,000 words in November."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":241.59,"endTime":244.11,"body":"So it's like an exercise in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":241.59,"endTime":244.11,"body":"keeping going not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":244.11,"endTime":247.53,"body":"procrastinating, doing some of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":244.11,"endTime":247.53,"body":"it every day. Yeah. Which is the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":247.53,"endTime":249.9,"body":"thing that we all do. We know we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":247.53,"endTime":249.9,"body":"say we're going to do something,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":249.9,"endTime":253.71,"body":"and we don't. And so I started"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":249.9,"endTime":253.71,"body":"on that. And I, by the end of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":253.71,"endTime":257.52,"body":"it, I mean, she gave up before I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":253.71,"endTime":257.52,"body":"did, and I kept going to the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":257.52,"endTime":262.65,"body":"bitter end. And I actually wrote"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":257.52,"endTime":262.65,"body":"about 35,000 words, which a lot"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":262.65,"endTime":267.03,"body":"of it was rubbish. But some of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":262.65,"endTime":267.03,"body":"it was okay. And what it taught"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":267.03,"endTime":271.14,"body":"me was that I could actually"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":267.03,"endTime":271.14,"body":"write far more than like a two"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":271.14,"endTime":275.25,"body":"or 3000 word short story. So it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":271.14,"endTime":275.25,"body":"set me off on the path towards"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":275.25,"endTime":281.19,"body":"Novel Writing. And I continued"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":275.25,"endTime":281.19,"body":"on with a novel on a subject or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":281.19,"endTime":284.58,"body":"topic, which actually was quite"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":281.19,"endTime":284.58,"body":"has quite a lot of social"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":284.58,"endTime":288.54,"body":"content to it. And again, Laura"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":284.58,"endTime":288.54,"body":"was instrumental in pushing me"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":288.54,"endTime":291.93,"body":"into it because we were"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":288.54,"endTime":291.93,"body":"discussing 12th night and gender"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":291.93,"endTime":294.75,"body":"issues because she was studying"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":291.93,"endTime":294.75,"body":"a level English. We had some"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":294.75,"endTime":297.0,"body":"fairly sort of academic"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":294.75,"endTime":297.0,"body":"discussions about it, but we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":297.0,"endTime":301.41,"body":"also talked about gender issues"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":297.0,"endTime":301.41,"body":"and how genders scene in society"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":301.41,"endTime":304.65,"body":"and how it's used in society."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":301.41,"endTime":304.65,"body":"And and then we started talking"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":304.65,"endTime":308.13,"body":"about people who had gender"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":304.65,"endTime":308.13,"body":"issues, you know, real gender"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":308.13,"endTime":312.63,"body":"issues, you know, transgenders."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":308.13,"endTime":312.63,"body":"Yeah. And and I sort of Gailey"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":312.63,"endTime":316.17,"body":"said, that are being the most"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":312.63,"endTime":316.17,"body":"amazing novel to write you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":316.17,"endTime":320.46,"body":"about somebody's journey. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":316.17,"endTime":320.46,"body":"she said, well do it then, as"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":320.46,"endTime":325.56,"body":"you'd expect. And so I did. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":320.46,"endTime":325.56,"body":"that actually turned into"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":325.59,"endTime":329.46,"body":"chained melodies, which is,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":325.59,"endTime":329.46,"body":"which is probably the book I'm"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":329.46,"endTime":332.58,"body":"most proud of, actually, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":329.46,"endTime":332.58,"body":"it meant it meant the most to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":332.58,"endTime":335.67,"body":"me, because it actually has"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":332.58,"endTime":335.67,"body":"something to say, not just as a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":335.67,"endTime":339.6,"body":"story, but also about a social"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":335.67,"endTime":339.6,"body":"issue. And an issue that people"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":339.69,"endTime":343.41,"body":"struggle with and who do when"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":339.69,"endTime":343.41,"body":"they do struggle with it, are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":343.41,"endTime":347.79,"body":"immensely brave. I think they're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":343.41,"endTime":347.79,"body":"dealing with it and the world"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":347.79,"endTime":350.01,"body":"and how the world sees and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":347.79,"endTime":350.01,"body":"treats them. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":350.7,"endTime":353.49,"body":"you did a"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":350.7,"endTime":353.49,"body":"lot of research for that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":353.52,"endTime":356.52,"body":"I did, I was actually"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":353.52,"endTime":356.52,"body":"very lucky with that, because"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":356.52,"endTime":360.06,"body":"somebody put me in touch with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":356.52,"endTime":360.06,"body":"somebody who's already going"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":360.06,"endTime":364.59,"body":"through that kind of transition."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":360.06,"endTime":364.59,"body":"And, and they were very kindly"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":364.59,"endTime":367.26,"body":"talked to me about it. And then"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":364.59,"endTime":367.26,"body":"through them, I also found out"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":367.26,"endTime":370.65,"body":"about somebody else who, who"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":367.26,"endTime":370.65,"body":"talked a lot more about it, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":370.71,"endTime":374.67,"body":"I still stay in touch with them"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":370.71,"endTime":374.67,"body":"now. And in fact, they chose"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":374.82,"endTime":378.75,"body":"when they've completed their"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":374.82,"endTime":378.75,"body":"transition, they chose to call"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":378.75,"endTime":382.62,"body":"themselves Debbie, who's their"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":378.75,"endTime":382.62,"body":"new name. So you know, I don't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":382.62,"endTime":385.62,"body":"know whether it was, you know, a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":382.62,"endTime":385.62,"body":"compliment to me or not. But I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":385.62,"endTime":389.1,"body":"mean, I felt that it was it was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":385.62,"endTime":389.1,"body":"something that, you know, was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":389.16,"endTime":392.64,"body":"was a wonderful kind of token."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":389.16,"endTime":392.64,"body":"Yeah, we've we've done a little"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":392.64,"endTime":396.18,"body":"bit of this journey together."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":392.64,"endTime":396.18,"body":"And I understood what she'd gone"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":396.18,"endTime":401.28,"body":"through, in going as far as she"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":396.18,"endTime":401.28,"body":"had at the time. And she was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":401.28,"endTime":405.24,"body":"wonderful. She read everything I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":401.28,"endTime":405.24,"body":"wrote, she put me straight where"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":405.24,"endTime":407.94,"body":"I'd got it wrong. She talked"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":405.24,"endTime":407.94,"body":"about a lot of very personal"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":407.94,"endTime":411.93,"body":"things, which a lot of people in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":407.94,"endTime":411.93,"body":"our position do suffer from, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":411.93,"endTime":416.34,"body":"know, the, the ostracising, the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":411.93,"endTime":416.34,"body":"prejudice, the treatment, bad"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":416.34,"endTime":421.41,"body":"treatment, that people get the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":416.34,"endTime":421.41,"body":"abuse, the isolation, I mean,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":421.41,"endTime":425.73,"body":"some of it is all for. So that's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":421.41,"endTime":425.73,"body":"why I say to go through that and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":425.76,"endTime":428.94,"body":"continue through that. Anybody"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":425.76,"endTime":428.94,"body":"doing that has immense bravery,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":428.94,"endTime":433.02,"body":"I think. So the book guy I often"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":428.94,"endTime":433.02,"body":"when I'm asked what it's about,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":433.02,"endTime":436.74,"body":"I say is as much about the story"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":433.02,"endTime":436.74,"body":"of somebody going through that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":436.74,"endTime":441.69,"body":"process, as about bravery, in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":436.74,"endTime":441.69,"body":"not being coward but facing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":441.69,"endTime":445.95,"body":"life, as it is not not a moment"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":441.69,"endTime":445.95,"body":"of a single moment of bravery,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":445.95,"endTime":449.37,"body":"which you know, people can pull"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":445.95,"endTime":449.37,"body":"themselves out and do it. It's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":449.37,"endTime":453.78,"body":"that ongoing, being brave every"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":449.37,"endTime":453.78,"body":"day and facing life every day."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":453.78,"endTime":456.48,"body":"Yeah, in the face of opposition."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":453.78,"endTime":456.48,"body":"Brilliant,"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":456.69,"endTime":460.71,"body":"amazing."},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":456.69,"endTime":460.71,"body":"Let's go back a bit. Tell me"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":460.71,"endTime":465.09,"body":"about your experience of the art"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":460.71,"endTime":465.09,"body":"at school. And generally as a"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":465.09,"endTime":465.9,"body":"child,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":466.08,"endTime":470.25,"body":"well, I had parents who"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":466.08,"endTime":470.25,"body":"always encouraged me to read and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":470.25,"endTime":473.7,"body":"my father particularly mmm"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":470.25,"endTime":473.7,"body":"father encouraged me with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":473.7,"endTime":478.08,"body":"everything with with writing, in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":473.7,"endTime":478.08,"body":"reading and painting. So he was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":478.08,"endTime":481.62,"body":"the most wonderful model role"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":478.08,"endTime":481.62,"body":"model in that sense, always"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":481.62,"endTime":484.86,"body":"interested in everything, always"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":481.62,"endTime":484.86,"body":"happy, always had a story to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":484.86,"endTime":489.48,"body":"tell himself. So a lovely man,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":484.86,"endTime":489.48,"body":"both my parents encouraged me"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":489.78,"endTime":493.83,"body":"and took me to the library."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":489.78,"endTime":493.83,"body":"Every week, I read all the way"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":493.83,"endTime":496.71,"body":"through all the shelves in the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":493.83,"endTime":496.71,"body":"library, until we ran out about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":496.71,"endTime":501.72,"body":"the library stock. But he made"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":496.71,"endTime":501.72,"body":"me me really love reading. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":501.72,"endTime":505.62,"body":"so when I went on to secondary"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":501.72,"endTime":505.62,"body":"school, I was really incredibly"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":506.43,"endTime":511.23,"body":"lucky to have a, an English"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":506.43,"endTime":511.23,"body":"teacher who was also quite"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":511.23,"endTime":515.82,"body":"inspiring and way they taught,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":511.23,"endTime":515.82,"body":"and really encouraged me with a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":515.82,"endTime":519.18,"body":"love of literature really got me"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":515.82,"endTime":519.18,"body":"interested in it. And and I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":519.18,"endTime":523.26,"body":"think that's the key, really,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":519.18,"endTime":523.26,"body":"isn't it that you to actually"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":523.26,"endTime":527.1,"body":"learn how to understand"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":523.26,"endTime":527.1,"body":"something and really engage in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":527.1,"endTime":531.81,"body":"it when you're young. Yeah, it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":527.1,"endTime":531.81,"body":"just sets you up for life. So I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":531.81,"endTime":534.3,"body":"suppose I've been funnelled into"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":531.81,"endTime":534.3,"body":"it by already loving reading,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":534.3,"endTime":538.11,"body":"but I started to understand"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":534.3,"endTime":538.11,"body":"literature, you know, even"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":538.2,"endTime":540.45,"body":"Shakespeare, and that sort of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":538.2,"endTime":540.45,"body":"thing, which, you know, for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":540.45,"endTime":543.93,"body":"teenagers is quite difficult."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":540.45,"endTime":543.93,"body":"Yeah. But I loved it. And he"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":543.93,"endTime":547.29,"body":"encouraged me to go on to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":543.93,"endTime":547.29,"body":"university. Pretty much the same"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":547.29,"endTime":550.29,"body":"with art as well, actually, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":547.29,"endTime":550.29,"body":"had encouragement with painting,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":550.5,"endTime":553.41,"body":"art and painting as well through"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":550.5,"endTime":553.41,"body":"my father and through a teacher"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":553.41,"endTime":557.25,"body":"school. So that's where he went"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":553.41,"endTime":557.25,"body":"brilliant."},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":557.4,"endTime":560.55,"body":"So good,"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":557.4,"endTime":560.55,"body":"good experience for you. And"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":560.79,"endTime":563.79,"body":"where did life take you after"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":560.79,"endTime":563.79,"body":"university?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":565.17,"endTime":569.1,"body":"Well, completely away"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":565.17,"endTime":569.1,"body":"from it actually, when I came"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":569.1,"endTime":572.52,"body":"out of university in the 80s,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":569.1,"endTime":572.52,"body":"and there was a, like a real"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":572.52,"endTime":574.83,"body":"dearth of employment at the time"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":572.52,"endTime":574.83,"body":"we were having one of our"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":574.83,"endTime":579.81,"body":"employment crises. So I actually"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":574.83,"endTime":579.81,"body":"delayed did an extra year in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":579.84,"endTime":582.81,"body":"university up to do a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":579.84,"endTime":582.81,"body":"postgraduate teaching"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":582.81,"endTime":586.29,"body":"qualification which has stood me"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":582.81,"endTime":586.29,"body":"in good stead, you know, later"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":586.29,"endTime":589.14,"body":"on in life, not teaching in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":586.29,"endTime":589.14,"body":"schools. I don't teach in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":589.14,"endTime":592.26,"body":"schools, but I do teach adult"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":589.14,"endTime":592.26,"body":"education. 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And I had, I was lucky"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":623.67,"endTime":626.79,"body":"to have a manager in the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":623.67,"endTime":626.79,"body":"unemployment benefit office"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":626.79,"endTime":630.06,"body":"where I was working, who pushed"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":626.79,"endTime":630.06,"body":"me into the graduate entry"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":630.06,"endTime":634.29,"body":"scheme, because you knew I had a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":630.06,"endTime":634.29,"body":"degree, and I got into it, and I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":634.29,"endTime":639.75,"body":"got funnelled from it into the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":634.29,"endTime":639.75,"body":"Inland Revenue. 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My mother and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":710.19,"endTime":713.58,"body":"my father had my older daughter"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":710.19,"endTime":713.58,"body":"for a couple of days a week"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":713.58,"endTime":717.06,"body":"while I went back to work part"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":713.58,"endTime":717.06,"body":"time. But new increasingly"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":717.09,"endTime":720.21,"body":"becomes more difficult as they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":717.09,"endTime":720.21,"body":"get older. I thought, well, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":720.21,"endTime":723.33,"body":"know, the answer is to do"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":720.21,"endTime":723.33,"body":"something about it. And the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":723.33,"endTime":725.88,"body":"inner revenue, of course, it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":723.33,"endTime":725.88,"body":"enabled me to understand how"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":725.88,"endTime":728.94,"body":"businesses work, and how"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":725.88,"endTime":728.94,"body":"accounts work and everything you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":728.94,"endTime":732.69,"body":"would do with a business. 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And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":759.87,"endTime":762.87,"body":"so it was another very"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":759.87,"endTime":762.87,"body":"interesting period of my life."},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":763.89,"endTime":766.41,"body":"Moving to"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":763.89,"endTime":766.41,"body":"Oxfordshire helps you to reshape"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":766.41,"endTime":769.29,"body":"your life and your writing"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":766.41,"endTime":769.29,"body":"started taking you in new"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":769.29,"endTime":772.2,"body":"directions. Tell me more about"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":769.29,"endTime":772.2,"body":"that time"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":772.29,"endTime":774.21,"body":"when the move to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":772.29,"endTime":774.21,"body":"Oxfordshire was that my older"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":774.21,"endTime":778.41,"body":"daughter come to Oxford"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":774.21,"endTime":778.41,"body":"University. And she was intent"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":778.44,"endTime":780.87,"body":"on getting me my younger"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":778.44,"endTime":780.87,"body":"daughter to move to Oxfordshire"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":780.87,"endTime":785.37,"body":"because by then have the father"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":780.87,"endTime":785.37,"body":"died. 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I do it by putting"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1002.06,"endTime":1006.05,"body":"him into thrillers and mysteries"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1006.05,"endTime":1008.63,"body":"into things where people are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1006.05,"endTime":1008.63,"body":"trying to work something out."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1008.96,"endTime":1011.24,"body":"You know, and I do like that,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1008.96,"endTime":1011.24,"body":"that bit like, you know, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1011.24,"endTime":1013.88,"body":"have to try and work out what's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1011.24,"endTime":1013.88,"body":"going on? Yeah, because that's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1013.88,"endTime":1015.65,"body":"just like, teasing your brain."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1015.68,"endTime":1016.28,"body":"But yeah, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1016.28,"endTime":1019.67,"body":"like that. Anyway, that's the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1016.28,"endTime":1019.67,"body":"aim. Yeah. Because we're, like,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1019.7,"endTime":1023.33,"body":"really examine what's going on"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1019.7,"endTime":1023.33,"body":"inside us and how we deal with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1023.33,"endTime":1023.84,"body":"things?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1024.41,"endTime":1024.98,"body":"Or how"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":1025.79,"endTime":1028.07,"body":"you"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":1025.79,"endTime":1028.07,"body":"encourage other people to write"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":1028.07,"endTime":1032.0,"body":"their life stories. Why do you"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":1028.07,"endTime":1032.0,"body":"think that's important?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1032.81,"endTime":1036.29,"body":"Writing is very much a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1032.81,"endTime":1036.29,"body":"way of also looking at yourself,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1036.5,"endTime":1040.04,"body":"and understanding yourself. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1036.5,"endTime":1040.04,"body":"also understanding why other"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1040.04,"endTime":1044.9,"body":"people behave as they do. So it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1040.04,"endTime":1044.9,"body":"can be a very cathartic"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1044.9,"endTime":1047.99,"body":"experience to actually write"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1044.9,"endTime":1047.99,"body":"about something you've"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1047.99,"endTime":1051.68,"body":"experienced, and start to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1047.99,"endTime":1051.68,"body":"understand it through that. I've"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1051.68,"endTime":1055.19,"body":"noticed that, especially with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1051.68,"endTime":1055.19,"body":"people who come on any of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1055.37,"endTime":1058.4,"body":"courses and workshops and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1055.37,"endTime":1058.4,"body":"retreats I've done on writing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1058.4,"endTime":1061.85,"body":"life stories, autobiographies or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1058.4,"endTime":1061.85,"body":"biographies, because they've"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1061.85,"endTime":1064.94,"body":"suddenly had an aha moment. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1061.85,"endTime":1064.94,"body":"you know, well, I never really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1065.03,"endTime":1068.42,"body":"realised that was why they maybe"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1065.03,"endTime":1068.42,"body":"did that, why that happened to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1068.42,"endTime":1073.1,"body":"me or, or why I felt like that."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1068.42,"endTime":1073.1,"body":"I mean, there also can be very"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1073.1,"endTime":1076.52,"body":"difficult moments, because they,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1073.1,"endTime":1076.52,"body":"they do suddenly bring things up"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1076.52,"endTime":1080.45,"body":"right up in front of you. And,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1076.52,"endTime":1080.45,"body":"you know, and you've got to deal"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1080.45,"endTime":1084.41,"body":"with it. And there can be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1080.45,"endTime":1084.41,"body":"traumatic times that people have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1084.41,"endTime":1087.74,"body":"to deal with, I've had, in the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1084.41,"endTime":1087.74,"body":"past, I've had two or three"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1087.74,"endTime":1090.23,"body":"people have said, I didn't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1087.74,"endTime":1090.23,"body":"realise that, you know, for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1090.23,"endTime":1094.55,"body":"instance, perhaps I was being"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1090.23,"endTime":1094.55,"body":"abused them. So you have to be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1094.55,"endTime":1098.12,"body":"prepared for that. Luckily, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1094.55,"endTime":1098.12,"body":"mean, I, I was trained in how to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1098.12,"endTime":1102.02,"body":"deal with people who suddenly"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1098.12,"endTime":1102.02,"body":"realise that they've been abused"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1102.02,"endTime":1104.84,"body":"or said that they've been"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1102.02,"endTime":1104.84,"body":"abused, because I've had to deal"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1104.84,"endTime":1107.48,"body":"with that with children, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1104.84,"endTime":1107.48,"body":"dealt with social service and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1107.48,"endTime":1110.99,"body":"all kinds of things. For me, it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1107.48,"endTime":1110.99,"body":"was it wasn't something that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1111.02,"endTime":1114.59,"body":"worried me about dealing with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1111.02,"endTime":1114.59,"body":"that. I mean, anybody who is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1114.86,"endTime":1118.43,"body":"actually helping somebody or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1114.86,"endTime":1118.43,"body":"encouraging somebody to write a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1118.43,"endTime":1124.1,"body":"life story, should be aware that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1118.43,"endTime":1124.1,"body":"that is a possibility. But it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1124.1,"endTime":1128.27,"body":"also a social history, isn't it?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1124.1,"endTime":1128.27,"body":"We lose so much of our life"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1128.27,"endTime":1131.84,"body":"histories and our parents life"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1128.27,"endTime":1131.84,"body":"histories, our other relations,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1131.84,"endTime":1135.98,"body":"life histories, our grandparents"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1131.84,"endTime":1135.98,"body":"life history. My grandfather,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1136.31,"endTime":1139.88,"body":"lived through two world wars. He"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1136.31,"endTime":1139.88,"body":"was a dispatch rider in the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1139.88,"endTime":1143.09,"body":"Second World War, I've got an"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1139.88,"endTime":1143.09,"body":"amazing photograph on his bike,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1143.09,"endTime":1147.86,"body":"actually, his motorbike out in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1143.09,"endTime":1147.86,"body":"France. And yet, I don't know"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1147.89,"endTime":1151.79,"body":"hardly any of things that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1147.89,"endTime":1151.79,"body":"happened to him. Because it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1151.79,"endTime":1156.95,"body":"wasn't passed on. We stopped"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1151.79,"endTime":1156.95,"body":"being verbal storytellers as we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1156.95,"endTime":1159.95,"body":"used to. And those stories all"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1156.95,"endTime":1159.95,"body":"used to get passed down, passed"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1159.95,"endTime":1163.46,"body":"down, passed down. We've stopped"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1159.95,"endTime":1163.46,"body":"doing that. So all those"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1163.46,"endTime":1169.19,"body":"stories, which really bring"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1163.46,"endTime":1169.19,"body":"history and life and how history"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1169.19,"endTime":1173.33,"body":"has shaped life, and our culture"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1169.19,"endTime":1173.33,"body":"and the way we go about things"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1173.33,"endTime":1177.14,"body":"now, they're all being lost. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1173.33,"endTime":1177.14,"body":"even many of my mother's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1177.14,"endTime":1181.01,"body":"stories. I don't know a lot of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1177.14,"endTime":1181.01,"body":"those and yeah, I incorporated"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1181.01,"endTime":1183.17,"body":"one of them into one of my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1181.01,"endTime":1183.17,"body":"books, his story about the rag"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1183.17,"endTime":1186.83,"body":"and bone man, it kind of rang a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1183.17,"endTime":1186.83,"body":"bell with me and I put the story"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1186.83,"endTime":1191.15,"body":"or put a little snippet of it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1186.83,"endTime":1191.15,"body":"into the patchwork ban that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1191.18,"endTime":1193.76,"body":"would otherwise be lost if my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1191.18,"endTime":1193.76,"body":"mother hadn't passed it on to me"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1193.76,"endTime":1197.0,"body":"those those little things which"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1193.76,"endTime":1197.0,"body":"were real there and can bring"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1197.36,"endTime":1202.22,"body":"those times in our lives and I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1197.36,"endTime":1202.22,"body":"history alive to people who"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1202.22,"endTime":1206.15,"body":"weren't alive then. But having"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1202.22,"endTime":1206.15,"body":"said that, a lot of people say I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1206.15,"endTime":1208.61,"body":"want to write a book, I want to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1206.15,"endTime":1208.61,"body":"write a story or I want to write"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1208.61,"endTime":1212.06,"body":"a love story. And they don't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1208.61,"endTime":1212.06,"body":"know how to, you know, they have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1212.06,"endTime":1215.39,"body":"no idea how to start, they have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1212.06,"endTime":1215.39,"body":"no idea how to write it, how to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1215.39,"endTime":1217.88,"body":"deal with it, because you get"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1215.39,"endTime":1217.88,"body":"very bogged down in the middle"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1217.88,"endTime":1221.57,"body":"of it all. And they need"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1217.88,"endTime":1221.57,"body":"somebody to help them. So I am"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1221.66,"endTime":1226.1,"body":"now doing that with particular"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1221.66,"endTime":1226.1,"body":"people, you know, people come to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1226.1,"endTime":1229.94,"body":"me, and we write a book"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1226.1,"endTime":1229.94,"body":"together, you know, I help them"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1229.94,"endTime":1232.85,"body":"write their book is their book,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1229.94,"endTime":1232.85,"body":"I have nothing to do with it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1232.85,"endTime":1236.0,"body":"when it's finished. But I've"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1232.85,"endTime":1236.0,"body":"helped them along the way. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1236.0,"endTime":1238.82,"body":"they've made use of the fact"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1236.0,"endTime":1238.82,"body":"that I know how to write, I know"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1238.82,"endTime":1241.28,"body":"how to write a book. And I know"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1238.82,"endTime":1241.28,"body":"how to pull all those facts"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1241.28,"endTime":1245.0,"body":"together and turn them into a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1241.28,"endTime":1245.0,"body":"story. And, and then they can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1245.0,"endTime":1248.33,"body":"take it away, and it's theirs."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1245.0,"endTime":1248.33,"body":"And it's then their family,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1248.33,"endTime":1251.33,"body":"their friends, whatever they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1248.33,"endTime":1251.33,"body":"want to do with it. It's a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1251.57,"endTime":1254.15,"body":"wonderful experience for me as"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1251.57,"endTime":1254.15,"body":"well, actually, because I see"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1254.15,"endTime":1259.01,"body":"them, you know, a lady, just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1254.15,"endTime":1259.01,"body":"working with at the moment, has"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1259.01,"endTime":1262.01,"body":"just finished her last chapter,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1259.01,"endTime":1262.01,"body":"really, literally, last week,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1262.19,"endTime":1265.16,"body":"finished her last chapter. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1262.19,"endTime":1265.16,"body":"she said to me, I could never"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1265.16,"endTime":1269.09,"body":"believe I could have done this."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1265.16,"endTime":1269.09,"body":"And it's lovely, it's a relief,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1269.51,"endTime":1273.17,"body":"to help somebody achieve"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1269.51,"endTime":1273.17,"body":"something that they wanted to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1273.17,"endTime":1276.77,"body":"do, but wouldn't have known how"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1273.17,"endTime":1276.77,"body":"to on their own. So I get from I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1276.77,"endTime":1277.91,"body":"get something from it too."},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":1278.09,"endTime":1281.39,"body":"Brilliant."},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":1278.09,"endTime":1281.39,"body":"Good, good, good. So you've"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":1281.39,"endTime":1288.17,"body":"spoken about helping others. I'm"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":1281.39,"endTime":1288.17,"body":"just wondering whether your"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":1288.17,"endTime":1293.06,"body":"success and your helping of"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":1288.17,"endTime":1293.06,"body":"others has taken away any of the"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":1293.06,"endTime":1297.17,"body":"release you originally found,"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":1293.06,"endTime":1297.17,"body":"when you started writing? Do you"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":1297.17,"endTime":1300.44,"body":"still have that balance for"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":1297.17,"endTime":1300.44,"body":"yourself? And for others?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1301.28,"endTime":1304.64,"body":"Yes, I do. Because, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1301.28,"endTime":1304.64,"body":"mean, I'm in the process of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1304.64,"endTime":1308.18,"body":"writing a four book series at"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1304.64,"endTime":1308.18,"body":"the moment, which has been"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1308.18,"endTime":1311.9,"body":"hanging around for about four to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1308.18,"endTime":1311.9,"body":"five years, I've written bits of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1311.9,"endTime":1314.18,"body":"it, and then oh, I don't know"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1311.9,"endTime":1314.18,"body":"that's not quite right, and then"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1314.18,"endTime":1316.76,"body":"gone away, and, and then"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1314.18,"endTime":1316.76,"body":"reshaped it and go backwards and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1316.76,"endTime":1319.37,"body":"forwards. And I'm actually back"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1316.76,"endTime":1319.37,"body":"to doing it. And now it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1319.37,"endTime":1322.7,"body":"suddenly starting to fall into"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1319.37,"endTime":1322.7,"body":"place for me now. So this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1322.7,"endTime":1325.43,"body":"afternoon, my treat for myself"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1322.7,"endTime":1325.43,"body":"will be the whole afternoon of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1325.43,"endTime":1330.95,"body":"writing another chapter in it."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1325.43,"endTime":1330.95,"body":"And I get to that the stage"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1330.95,"endTime":1333.56,"body":"where I haven't, if I hadn't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1330.95,"endTime":1333.56,"body":"been writing, right, I suddenly"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1333.56,"endTime":1337.34,"body":"feel I've got to write, I feel"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1333.56,"endTime":1337.34,"body":"like I've got to write. And when"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1337.34,"endTime":1341.42,"body":"I'm writing, it's just, it just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1337.34,"endTime":1341.42,"body":"takes me into another world. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1341.66,"endTime":1346.91,"body":"now I've never lost it. And I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1341.66,"endTime":1346.91,"body":"don't lose it actually, when I'm"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1346.94,"endTime":1350.21,"body":"writing with somebody, or having"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1346.94,"endTime":1350.21,"body":"somebody to write their story,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1350.21,"endTime":1355.52,"body":"because every story is, is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1350.21,"endTime":1355.52,"body":"fascinating. And their stories"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1355.52,"endTime":1360.14,"body":"are fascinating. And, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1355.52,"endTime":1360.14,"body":"and as long as you allow"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1360.14,"endTime":1363.83,"body":"yourself to go with it, you can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1360.14,"endTime":1363.83,"body":"become immersed in that story,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1363.83,"endTime":1367.73,"body":"too, you know, and, and having"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1363.83,"endTime":1367.73,"body":"the ideas that prompt it to turn"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1367.73,"endTime":1371.09,"body":"into, you know, something more"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1367.73,"endTime":1371.09,"body":"technical direction, add more to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1371.09,"endTime":1373.94,"body":"it. They're always exciting for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1371.09,"endTime":1373.94,"body":"somebody else, when you're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1373.94,"endTime":1375.86,"body":"working with somebody else as"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1373.94,"endTime":1375.86,"body":"they are when you're working for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1375.86,"endTime":1380.0,"body":"yourself. Yeah, so no, I, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1375.86,"endTime":1380.0,"body":"don't think I will ever lose"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1380.0,"endTime":1380.87,"body":"that. Actually."},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":1381.08,"endTime":1382.85,"body":"You've had"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":1381.08,"endTime":1382.85,"body":"your work published"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":1382.88,"endTime":1387.26,"body":"traditionally, but you prefer to"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":1382.88,"endTime":1387.26,"body":"self publish. Why is that? And"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":1387.26,"endTime":1390.02,"body":"how do you find the process of"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":1387.26,"endTime":1390.02,"body":"self publishing?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1390.74,"endTime":1395.24,"body":"Well, the first book I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1390.74,"endTime":1395.24,"body":"had that was published, was a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1395.24,"endTime":1399.62,"body":"massive learning curve, because"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1395.24,"endTime":1399.62,"body":"I found that it was it was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1399.62,"endTime":1403.58,"body":"amazingly excited to have it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1399.62,"endTime":1403.58,"body":"accepted. And then to suddenly"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1403.58,"endTime":1407.21,"body":"find it, you know, a little"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1403.58,"endTime":1407.21,"body":"physical copy of it in my hand,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1407.24,"endTime":1412.79,"body":"such a massive achievement. But"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1407.24,"endTime":1412.79,"body":"after the excitement wore off, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1412.79,"endTime":1417.02,"body":"started to realise that I had no"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1412.79,"endTime":1417.02,"body":"control over it at all. And once"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1417.02,"endTime":1420.89,"body":"that happened, so I had no"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1417.02,"endTime":1420.89,"body":"control over the cover design, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1420.89,"endTime":1425.45,"body":"have no control over the cover"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1420.89,"endTime":1425.45,"body":"blurb, I have no control over"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1425.45,"endTime":1428.54,"body":"how it was marketed, how it was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1425.45,"endTime":1428.54,"body":"marketed for where it is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1428.54,"endTime":1432.92,"body":"marketed. You put all that time"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1428.54,"endTime":1432.92,"body":"and energy and creativity into"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1432.92,"endTime":1436.55,"body":"writing something. And then when"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1432.92,"endTime":1436.55,"body":"a publisher takes off of you,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1436.58,"endTime":1439.4,"body":"they literally do take it away"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1436.58,"endTime":1439.4,"body":"from you. And that's it. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1439.4,"endTime":1443.84,"body":"And all you get is like a small,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1439.4,"endTime":1443.84,"body":"small portion for artists. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1443.84,"endTime":1447.86,"body":"it sounds like it's a very"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1443.84,"endTime":1447.86,"body":"personal thing writing a book. I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1447.86,"endTime":1450.8,"body":"mean, because it is so much of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1447.86,"endTime":1450.8,"body":"you that's going into it your"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1451.19,"endTime":1455.15,"body":"your perspectives, your"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1451.19,"endTime":1455.15,"body":"understanding your beliefs, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1455.18,"endTime":1458.15,"body":"the work you've put into"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1455.18,"endTime":1458.15,"body":"researching things and your"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1458.15,"endTime":1461.63,"body":"creativity as well. So just hand"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1458.15,"endTime":1461.63,"body":"it all over to somebody and say,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1461.63,"endTime":1464.06,"body":"Well, there you go, do what you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1461.63,"endTime":1464.06,"body":"want with it. Now just give me a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1464.06,"endTime":1467.99,"body":"few pennies from time to time."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1464.06,"endTime":1467.99,"body":"Yeah, it doesn't feel right. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1468.14,"endTime":1471.35,"body":"my first experience of self"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1468.14,"endTime":1471.35,"body":"publishing was kind of forced on"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1471.35,"endTime":1475.01,"body":"me funnily enough with change"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1471.35,"endTime":1475.01,"body":"melodies, which because it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1475.01,"endTime":1478.22,"body":"wasn't my first book to be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1475.01,"endTime":1478.22,"body":"published, and I only self"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1478.22,"endTime":1482.36,"body":"published it because at the time"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1478.22,"endTime":1482.36,"body":"I'd finished it, the people are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1483.26,"endTime":1487.25,"body":"going to for research and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1483.26,"endTime":1487.25,"body":"discussion and for them to make"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1487.25,"endTime":1490.13,"body":"sure that it was right. 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They said did you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1490.13,"endTime":1495.95,"body":"know that there is a nationally"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1495.95,"endTime":1499.52,"body":"touring exhibition of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1495.95,"endTime":1499.52,"body":"transgender portraits have been"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1499.52,"endTime":1503.45,"body":"reached by shefford Primary Care"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1499.52,"endTime":1503.45,"body":"trust, and it was to try and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1503.72,"endTime":1509.66,"body":"raise awareness of the issues"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1503.72,"endTime":1509.66,"body":"that and also to, like normalise"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1509.81,"endTime":1513.62,"body":"the fact that, you know, these,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1509.81,"endTime":1513.62,"body":"these people weren't odd, they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1513.62,"endTime":1516.86,"body":"were just people. And it was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1513.62,"endTime":1516.86,"body":"coming to Bournemouth, the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1516.86,"endTime":1519.02,"body":"exhibition was going to be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1516.86,"endTime":1519.02,"body":"straight across from the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1519.08,"endTime":1523.85,"body":"library, and into a big cafe"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1519.08,"endTime":1523.85,"body":"bar, which was based underneath"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1523.85,"endTime":1527.54,"body":"the library, which is very"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1523.85,"endTime":1527.54,"body":"popular with everybody, from"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1527.75,"endTime":1534.17,"body":"mums with toddlers, up to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1527.75,"endTime":1534.17,"body":"grandparents with toddlers. And,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1534.38,"endTime":1539.6,"body":"but especially the transgender"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1534.38,"endTime":1539.6,"body":"in the LGBT community, because"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1539.6,"endTime":1545.6,"body":"the two men who ran it were gay."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1539.6,"endTime":1545.6,"body":"And they were very, very"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1545.63,"endTime":1549.77,"body":"understanding of everybody and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1545.63,"endTime":1549.77,"body":"everything. And it was a lovely"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1549.77,"endTime":1553.49,"body":"atmosphere, the most accepting,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1549.77,"endTime":1553.49,"body":"comfortable, friendly atmosphere"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1553.49,"endTime":1556.76,"body":"I've ever come across. And the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1553.49,"endTime":1556.76,"body":"exhibition, obviously, because"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1556.76,"endTime":1559.94,"body":"of their links, was going to be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1556.76,"endTime":1559.94,"body":"partly on their walls too. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1559.94,"endTime":1563.84,"body":"there was a big party plan and a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1559.94,"endTime":1563.84,"body":"big launch. And and they said to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1563.84,"endTime":1567.8,"body":"me, can you please not get your"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1563.84,"endTime":1567.8,"body":"book published at the same time?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1567.86,"endTime":1570.74,"body":"I said, it doesn't work. Like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1567.86,"endTime":1570.74,"body":"they just say, oh, we'll get it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1570.74,"endTime":1575.24,"body":"published next week, then. Next"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1570.74,"endTime":1575.24,"body":"up is no way you can do it. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1575.24,"endTime":1578.57,"body":"in the end, I said, Well, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1575.24,"endTime":1578.57,"body":"suppose it could be self"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1578.57,"endTime":1581.12,"body":"published, because that you do"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1578.57,"endTime":1581.12,"body":"have control over the timing."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1581.12,"endTime":1583.76,"body":"Because normally, with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1581.12,"endTime":1583.76,"body":"traditional publishing, it could"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1583.76,"endTime":1588.86,"body":"take ages and ages. Yeah. And I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1583.76,"endTime":1588.86,"body":"said, Well, okay, we'll, we'll"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1588.86,"endTime":1593.15,"body":"try it. So that was my first"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1588.86,"endTime":1593.15,"body":"foray into it. And it was kind"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1593.15,"endTime":1596.33,"body":"of quite a, you know, again,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1593.15,"endTime":1596.33,"body":"another steep learning curve,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1596.33,"endTime":1601.43,"body":"learning how to do it. And he"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1596.33,"endTime":1601.43,"body":"came out at the time, it was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1601.43,"endTime":1606.29,"body":"part of the the launch of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1601.43,"endTime":1606.29,"body":"whole exhibition. It was, it was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1606.29,"endTime":1609.05,"body":"really quite an amazing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1606.29,"endTime":1609.05,"body":"experience I met so many people"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1609.05,"endTime":1611.93,"body":"have suddenly very unusual"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1609.05,"endTime":1611.93,"body":"conversations."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1613.58,"endTime":1617.63,"body":"But it made me realise also that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1613.58,"endTime":1617.63,"body":"all of a sudden, you actually"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1617.63,"endTime":1620.51,"body":"did have control over"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1617.63,"endTime":1620.51,"body":"everything, you know, you have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1620.51,"endTime":1624.14,"body":"complete autonomy, you chose"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1620.51,"endTime":1624.14,"body":"your cover design, you chose"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1624.14,"endTime":1626.63,"body":"what you wrote about it, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1624.14,"endTime":1626.63,"body":"choose how you marketed it, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1626.63,"endTime":1630.56,"body":"chose what price it was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1626.63,"endTime":1630.56,"body":"available for, you chose who you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1630.56,"endTime":1634.01,"body":"put it to for review as you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1630.56,"endTime":1634.01,"body":"chose everything, and it felt"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1634.01,"endTime":1637.61,"body":"right, this was your book, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1634.01,"endTime":1637.61,"body":"should be doing all of that."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1637.64,"endTime":1640.61,"body":"Yeah. And of course, it raises"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1637.64,"endTime":1640.61,"body":"all those other problems that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1640.61,"endTime":1645.05,"body":"you know, your writer, not a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1640.61,"endTime":1645.05,"body":"promoter or a marketer, or a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1645.05,"endTime":1647.45,"body":"cover designer or any of that."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1645.05,"endTime":1647.45,"body":"So you have to sort of like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1647.45,"endTime":1651.62,"body":"pulling resources from all kinds"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1647.45,"endTime":1651.62,"body":"of places. 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But"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1658.64,"endTime":1661.97,"body":"increasingly, I also become"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1658.64,"endTime":1661.97,"body":"aware, the more I've been"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1661.97,"endTime":1667.4,"body":"involved in the whole"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1661.97,"endTime":1667.4,"body":"publishing, writing, industry,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1667.61,"endTime":1671.78,"body":"and teaching, I suppose as well"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1667.61,"endTime":1671.78,"body":"teaching it, that there are so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1671.78,"endTime":1674.72,"body":"many good books out there and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1671.78,"endTime":1674.72,"body":"good writers out there who never"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1674.72,"endTime":1679.52,"body":"get past what they call the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1674.72,"endTime":1679.52,"body":"gatekeepers. So literary agents"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1679.58,"endTime":1682.04,"body":"who your book has to go to to be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1679.58,"endTime":1682.04,"body":"accepted. And then the agent"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1682.04,"endTime":1684.62,"body":"represents you to a publisher."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1682.04,"endTime":1684.62,"body":"They call themselves the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1684.62,"endTime":1687.47,"body":"gatekeepers. And I've talked to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1684.62,"endTime":1687.47,"body":"many literary agents who refer"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1687.47,"endTime":1690.35,"body":"to themselves as the gatekeeper,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1687.47,"endTime":1690.35,"body":"we make sure you get the quality"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1690.35,"endTime":1693.89,"body":"books. Actually, no, you don't."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1690.35,"endTime":1693.89,"body":"Because some of those books out"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1693.89,"endTime":1700.07,"body":"there are terrible. We could all"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1693.89,"endTime":1700.07,"body":"name some, we won't name. Some"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1700.07,"endTime":1702.92,"body":"of them are terrible, it's just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1700.07,"endTime":1702.92,"body":"somebody found an angle to make"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1702.92,"endTime":1705.89,"body":"them commercially viable. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1702.92,"endTime":1705.89,"body":"they get thrust in everybody's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1705.89,"endTime":1709.49,"body":"face. Whereas there are some"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1705.89,"endTime":1709.49,"body":"extremely good books out there,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1709.67,"endTime":1713.45,"body":"self published, independently"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1709.67,"endTime":1713.45,"body":"published, that would never put"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1713.45,"endTime":1716.87,"body":"another stand a chance, mainly,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1713.45,"endTime":1716.87,"body":"a lot of the time is because"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1716.96,"endTime":1720.11,"body":"agents and publishers have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1716.96,"endTime":1720.11,"body":"already made maybe got a book"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1720.26,"endTime":1724.49,"body":"underway in the publishing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1720.26,"endTime":1724.49,"body":"process, there is not dissimilar"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1724.52,"endTime":1726.95,"body":"to the one that's being"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1724.52,"endTime":1726.95,"body":"presented to them. And they say,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1726.95,"endTime":1728.54,"body":"well, we're not gonna have to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1726.95,"endTime":1728.54,"body":"have the same kind of thing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1728.54,"endTime":1731.15,"body":"going at the same time. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1728.54,"endTime":1731.15,"body":"sorry, yours will fall by the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1731.15,"endTime":1734.03,"body":"wayside. But that doesn't mean"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1731.15,"endTime":1734.03,"body":"to say that book that would fall"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1734.03,"endTime":1738.83,"body":"by the wayside isn't just as"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1734.03,"endTime":1738.83,"body":"valuable and just as good and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1738.83,"endTime":1742.55,"body":"wouldn't be just as enjoyed by"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1738.83,"endTime":1742.55,"body":"the reading public. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":1744.41,"endTime":1746.99,"body":"With Rosie"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":1744.41,"endTime":1746.99,"body":"the golden retriever tap dancing"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":1746.99,"endTime":1750.29,"body":"in the background, Deborah told"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":1746.99,"endTime":1750.29,"body":"me more about how she can help"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":1750.32,"endTime":1752.72,"body":"others from their self"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":1750.32,"endTime":1752.72,"body":"publishing journey."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1753.71,"endTime":1758.54,"body":"Now, I also offer a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1753.71,"endTime":1758.54,"body":"self publishing package for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1758.54,"endTime":1761.6,"body":"anybody who wants to come to me"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1758.54,"endTime":1761.6,"body":"because there is there is a lot"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1761.6,"endTime":1764.24,"body":"involved in it, obviously, a lot"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1761.6,"endTime":1764.24,"body":"of technicalities involved in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1764.24,"endTime":1767.57,"body":"it. But you know, once you've"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1764.24,"endTime":1767.57,"body":"got somebody who can just say, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1767.57,"endTime":1770.6,"body":"know what to do, I can do this,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1767.57,"endTime":1770.6,"body":"you know, and I will do it the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1770.6,"endTime":1774.05,"body":"most economical way I can for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1770.6,"endTime":1774.05,"body":"you. So, at the end of the day,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1774.08,"endTime":1776.15,"body":"you've got the book out there"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1774.08,"endTime":1776.15,"body":"and you do what you want with it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1776.18,"endTime":1779.42,"body":"after that. Now, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1776.18,"endTime":1779.42,"body":"having experienced COVID I've"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1779.42,"endTime":1782.84,"body":"taken a lot of the things I was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1779.42,"endTime":1782.84,"body":"teaching and put them into three"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1782.87,"endTime":1787.64,"body":"online courses. Okay. So, one on"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1782.87,"endTime":1787.64,"body":"life writing on Novel Writing,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1787.64,"endTime":1790.07,"body":"and one on self publishing,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1787.64,"endTime":1790.07,"body":"brilliance."},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":1791.09,"endTime":1793.82,"body":"I know that"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":1791.09,"endTime":1793.82,"body":"you don't measure your success"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":1794.21,"endTime":1799.49,"body":"by your sales figures. How do"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":1794.21,"endTime":1799.49,"body":"you encourage others to value"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":1799.55,"endTime":1804.14,"body":"their writing Saying that"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":1799.55,"endTime":1804.14,"body":"something I've always said right"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":1804.14,"endTime":1804.86,"body":"from the outset,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1804.86,"endTime":1809.06,"body":"in every workshop class"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1804.86,"endTime":1809.06,"body":"or anything I've ever done"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1809.09,"endTime":1813.29,"body":"teaching or mentoring anybody is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1809.09,"endTime":1813.29,"body":"never, never think I'm going to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1813.29,"endTime":1815.72,"body":"go write a best seller, and I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1813.29,"endTime":1815.72,"body":"want to make a lot of money out"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1815.72,"endTime":1819.2,"body":"of it, never think that's the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1815.72,"endTime":1819.2,"body":"reason for doing it, do it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1819.2,"endTime":1822.29,"body":"because you are going to get"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1819.2,"endTime":1822.29,"body":"something out of it personally,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1822.53,"endTime":1824.9,"body":"you're going to get"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1822.53,"endTime":1824.9,"body":"satisfaction, you've done it,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1824.96,"endTime":1827.12,"body":"you're going to get a sense of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1824.96,"endTime":1827.12,"body":"achievement, you've done it,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1827.36,"endTime":1830.3,"body":"you're going to learn a lawful"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1827.36,"endTime":1830.3,"body":"lot by doing it because you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1830.3,"endTime":1832.1,"body":"know, you're going to learn"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1830.3,"endTime":1832.1,"body":"about yourself and other people"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1832.1,"endTime":1836.15,"body":"and also learn the technique of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1832.1,"endTime":1836.15,"body":"writing, and ultimately, maybe"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1836.42,"endTime":1840.35,"body":"self publishing. And, and it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1836.42,"endTime":1840.35,"body":"going to help you grow. And all"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1840.35,"endTime":1843.65,"body":"of those things together."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1840.35,"endTime":1843.65,"body":"They're the things are really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1843.71,"endTime":1847.85,"body":"valuable alongside Yes, lovely"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1843.71,"endTime":1847.85,"body":"if you get paid for it, if you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1847.85,"endTime":1851.63,"body":"sell some, but you know, the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1847.85,"endTime":1851.63,"body":"thing to do is never to just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1851.72,"endTime":1855.53,"body":"value yourself by how much"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1851.72,"endTime":1855.53,"body":"you're paid. It's by how much"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1855.53,"endTime":1859.67,"body":"you can do, and how much value"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1855.53,"endTime":1859.67,"body":"it creates and gives to you as a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1859.67,"endTime":1863.6,"body":"person. And then you of course"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1859.67,"endTime":1863.6,"body":"can give to other people as a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1863.6,"endTime":1867.65,"body":"person. Because, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1863.6,"endTime":1867.65,"body":"whatever you gain for yourself,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1867.98,"endTime":1870.86,"body":"you should be able to give back"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1867.98,"endTime":1870.86,"body":"to other people in some way."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1871.04,"endTime":1874.58,"body":"Even if it's just by being able"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1871.04,"endTime":1874.58,"body":"to you talk to them about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1874.58,"endTime":1876.92,"body":"something or just write a book"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1874.58,"endTime":1876.92,"body":"that they'd like to read."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1876.98,"endTime":1877.49,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":1882.14,"endTime":1884.9,"body":"There are"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":1882.14,"endTime":1884.9,"body":"many, many podcasts out there,"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":1885.11,"endTime":1888.86,"body":"it's difficult to know where to"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":1885.11,"endTime":1888.86,"body":"start. So I like to ask my"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":1888.86,"endTime":1891.95,"body":"guests for their"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":1888.86,"endTime":1891.95,"body":"recommendations. You're welcome."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1894.26,"endTime":1898.16,"body":"Joanna pen is a self"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1894.26,"endTime":1898.16,"body":"publishing star. I mean, she's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1898.16,"endTime":1901.73,"body":"been around for a little while."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1898.16,"endTime":1901.73,"body":"She writes mystery thrillers."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1901.97,"endTime":1906.17,"body":"But she is also amazingly"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1901.97,"endTime":1906.17,"body":"generous with all the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1906.17,"endTime":1910.94,"body":"information she gives out to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1906.17,"endTime":1910.94,"body":"people and provides in all kinds"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1910.94,"endTime":1914.93,"body":"of ways. And she has a podcast"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1910.94,"endTime":1914.93,"body":"called the creative pen podcast,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1914.93,"endTime":1919.22,"body":"and that's p double n, that's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1914.93,"endTime":1919.22,"body":"excellent. And covers all kinds"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1919.22,"endTime":1922.82,"body":"of things. And there's a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1919.22,"endTime":1922.82,"body":"gentleman called Mark Dawson,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1922.82,"endTime":1926.87,"body":"who got himself on the Forbes"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1922.82,"endTime":1926.87,"body":"list for having done so we're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1926.87,"endTime":1930.29,"body":"self publishing, but he has a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1926.87,"endTime":1930.29,"body":"podcast called the self"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1930.29,"endTime":1934.34,"body":"publishing formula. Abs that's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1930.29,"endTime":1934.34,"body":"very good. And the other one I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1934.34,"endTime":1937.97,"body":"think, is the alliance of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1934.34,"endTime":1937.97,"body":"independent authors ally, which"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1937.97,"endTime":1941.03,"body":"I would recommend people have a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1937.97,"endTime":1941.03,"body":"look at anybody who's writing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1941.18,"endTime":1945.08,"body":"starting to write hoping to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1941.18,"endTime":1945.08,"body":"write properly and get books out"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1945.08,"endTime":1947.57,"body":"there have a look at ally,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1945.08,"endTime":1947.57,"body":"they're very helpful. They cover"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1947.57,"endTime":1950.75,"body":"all kinds of things. They have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1947.57,"endTime":1950.75,"body":"regular podcasts, revenue,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1950.75,"endTime":1954.02,"body":"webinars, and information as"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1950.75,"endTime":1954.02,"body":"well on their website. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1954.56,"endTime":1958.82,"body":"they're very helpful to Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1954.56,"endTime":1958.82,"body":"how can people connect with you?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1959.45,"endTime":1964.25,"body":"contact you, maybe take part in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1959.45,"endTime":1964.25,"body":"your courses, my website if you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1964.25,"endTime":1966.68,"body":"want to look at my books, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1964.25,"endTime":1966.68,"body":"everything to do with my books"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1966.71,"endTime":1969.74,"body":"and my paintings because I have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1966.71,"endTime":1969.74,"body":"got my gallery of paintings on"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1969.74,"endTime":1970.04,"body":"there,"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":1970.07,"endTime":1971.54,"body":"I will never"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":1970.07,"endTime":1971.54,"body":"come back for that one."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1973.91,"endTime":1979.55,"body":"But that you can find"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1973.91,"endTime":1979.55,"body":"is www dot Deborah DB ra h"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1979.61,"endTime":1985.73,"body":"martin.co.uk. And, but that will"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1979.61,"endTime":1985.73,"body":"will shortly be redirecting you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1985.73,"endTime":1989.27,"body":"to another website, which is all"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1985.73,"endTime":1989.27,"body":"to do with teaching how it can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1989.27,"endTime":1993.5,"body":"help you. ghostwriting"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1989.27,"endTime":1993.5,"body":"mentoring, teaching and self"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1993.5,"endTime":2000.91,"body":"publishing. And that's www dot"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1993.5,"endTime":2000.91,"body":"book. hyphen works.co.uk."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2001.84,"endTime":2006.31,"body":"Anybody who very welcome to just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2001.84,"endTime":2006.31,"body":"email me at info at Deborah"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2006.34,"endTime":2010.3,"body":"martin.co.uk. And it's lovely"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2006.34,"endTime":2010.3,"body":"hearing from people and I love"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2010.3,"endTime":2013.12,"body":"hearing people's stories as well"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2010.3,"endTime":2013.12,"body":"so and seeing what I can do to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2013.12,"endTime":2013.54,"body":"help them."},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":2014.65,"endTime":2018.22,"body":"Fabulous."},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":2014.65,"endTime":2018.22,"body":"That's been really lovely to"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":2018.22,"endTime":2022.96,"body":"hear everything to hear your"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":2018.22,"endTime":2022.96,"body":"story. And yeah, and I'll see"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":2022.96,"endTime":2023.47,"body":"you soon."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2023.83,"endTime":2024.64,"body":"Thank you very much."},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":2029.59,"endTime":2031.99,"body":"Creativity"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":2029.59,"endTime":2031.99,"body":"found is an open stage arts"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":2031.99,"endTime":2035.89,"body":"production. If you're listening"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":2031.99,"endTime":2035.89,"body":"on Apple podcasts, please feel"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":2035.89,"endTime":2040.18,"body":"free to subscribe, rate and"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":2035.89,"endTime":2040.18,"body":"review. If you'd like to help"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":2040.18,"endTime":2044.17,"body":"fund future episodes, you can"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":2040.18,"endTime":2044.17,"body":"buy us a coffee. That's Cato"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":2044.23,"endTime":2048.4,"body":"hyphen F is the online platform"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":2044.23,"endTime":2048.4,"body":"that helps creators receive"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":2048.4,"endTime":2053.59,"body":"financial support from fans of"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":2048.4,"endTime":2053.59,"body":"their work. Visit Cato hyphen f"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":2053.59,"endTime":2060.19,"body":"fi.com. Slash creativity found"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":2053.59,"endTime":2060.19,"body":"podcast. If you have found your"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":2060.19,"endTime":2063.25,"body":"creativity as an adult, and"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":2060.19,"endTime":2063.25,"body":"you'd like to talk to me for"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":2063.25,"endTime":2068.2,"body":"future episodes, drop me a line"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":2063.25,"endTime":2068.2,"body":"at Claire at openstage"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":2068.2,"endTime":2074.44,"body":"arts.co.uk on Instagram or"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":2068.2,"endTime":2074.44,"body":"Facebook follow at creativity"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":2074.44,"endTime":2077.98,"body":"found podcast where you will"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":2074.44,"endTime":2077.98,"body":"find photos of our contributors"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":2077.98,"endTime":2085.45,"body":"artworks and be kept abreast of"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":2077.98,"endTime":2085.45,"body":"everything we're up to. Don't"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":2085.45,"endTime":2089.05,"body":"worry, I haven't forgotten about"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":2085.45,"endTime":2089.05,"body":"the special offers. Yes, that's"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":2089.05,"endTime":2093.13,"body":"two special offers from Deborah"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":2089.05,"endTime":2093.13,"body":"just for you listeners receive"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":2093.13,"endTime":2098.29,"body":"25% of any of Deborah's writing"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":2093.13,"endTime":2098.29,"body":"courses using the discount code"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":2098.35,"endTime":2108.94,"body":"25 off Just visit WWW dot book"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":2098.35,"endTime":2108.94,"body":"hyphen works.co.uk slash all"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":2108.94,"endTime":2113.32,"body":"courses. If you would like"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":2108.94,"endTime":2113.32,"body":"Deborah to ghostwrite or help"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":2113.32,"endTime":2117.4,"body":"you edit your own book, contact"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":2113.32,"endTime":2117.4,"body":"her directly and mentioned this"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":2117.4,"endTime":2121.03,"body":"podcast to receive a 10%"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":2117.4,"endTime":2121.03,"body":"discount"}]}