{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":6.12,"endTime":13.395,"body":"For this"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":6.12,"endTime":13.395,"body":"episode, I'm chatting with"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":13.602,"endTime":26.074,"body":"Andrew Wildman about the highs"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":13.602,"endTime":26.074,"body":"and lows of making a creative"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":26.282,"endTime":38.753,"body":"living. Andrew has worked as a"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":26.282,"endTime":38.753,"body":"graphic designer, Illustrator"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":38.961,"endTime":50.393,"body":"and storyboard artist. Things"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":38.961,"endTime":50.393,"body":"haven't always been plain"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":50.601,"endTime":62.449,"body":"sailing for Andrew, but he's"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":50.601,"endTime":62.449,"body":"used his life experiences to"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":62.657,"endTime":74.712,"body":"inform his latest publishing"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":62.657,"endTime":74.712,"body":"works. Hi, Andrew. Okay. As a"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":74.92,"endTime":85.937,"body":"youngster, there was a"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":74.92,"endTime":85.937,"body":"particular field of creativity"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":86.145,"endTime":99.24,"body":"that interested you, which you"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":86.145,"endTime":99.24,"body":"have been lucky enough to pursue"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":99.447,"endTime":111.503,"body":"with some ups and downs in"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":99.447,"endTime":111.503,"body":"between. Please tell me what it"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":111.711,"endTime":113.79,"body":"is you do."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":114.33,"endTime":116.25,"body":"A lot of people ask me"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":114.33,"endTime":116.25,"body":"that. 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I'm"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":135.96,"endTime":140.76,"body":"essentially an illustrator and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":140.76,"endTime":144.15,"body":"I've plied my trade in all sorts"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":140.76,"endTime":144.15,"body":"of different industries. But I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":144.15,"endTime":145.35,"body":"draw stuff there we go."},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":148.23,"endTime":150.18,"body":"Did you have"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":148.23,"endTime":150.18,"body":"an artistic childhood?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":151.08,"endTime":155.28,"body":"Not not particularly, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":151.08,"endTime":155.28,"body":"mean, I pursued it like many"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":155.28,"endTime":158.4,"body":"children do. 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Because,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":210.99,"endTime":214.5,"body":"like, you know, like any"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":210.99,"endTime":214.5,"body":"toddler, I would draw and do a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":214.5,"endTime":217.35,"body":"bit of painting. I didn't go to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":214.5,"endTime":217.35,"body":"a nursery school. 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And I was amazed that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":286.11,"endTime":291.3,"body":"somebody that I knew somebody"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":286.11,"endTime":291.3,"body":"who's that close to me, could"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":291.3,"endTime":295.59,"body":"create something so amazing. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":291.3,"endTime":295.59,"body":"it wasn't just drawing as well"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":295.59,"endTime":297.81,"body":"it was it was a three"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":295.59,"endTime":297.81,"body":"dimensional thing. So I found"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":297.81,"endTime":302.4,"body":"that incredible. 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I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":317.1,"endTime":321.21,"body":"think the safest bet for me was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":317.1,"endTime":321.21,"body":"to do something that I already"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":321.21,"endTime":325.83,"body":"knew was going to get a result."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":321.21,"endTime":325.83,"body":"So I essentially copied him."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":326.61,"endTime":329.82,"body":"I've never told him this, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":326.61,"endTime":329.82,"body":"I'll ring him up after this. You"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":329.82,"endTime":333.57,"body":"will my early influence. 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Had you discovered"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":531.6,"endTime":532.74,"body":"comics by then?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":533.07,"endTime":536.31,"body":"I mean, I read comics"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":533.07,"endTime":536.31,"body":"right from when I was very, very"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":536.31,"endTime":541.29,"body":"young. I remember having a comic"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":536.31,"endTime":541.29,"body":"called play our I can still"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":541.29,"endTime":543.54,"body":"remember the characters some of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":541.29,"endTime":543.54,"body":"the characters in it little"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":543.54,"endTime":548.25,"body":"Tommy trouble and Barney cuddles"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":543.54,"endTime":548.25,"body":"the funny bunny who loved eating"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":548.25,"endTime":557.7,"body":"jam. It's wonderful. 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And then we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":587.55,"endTime":591.75,"body":"have classic British comics like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":587.55,"endTime":591.75,"body":"the staple type of football,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":591.75,"endTime":595.17,"body":"comics and war comics because"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":591.75,"endTime":595.17,"body":"you know, to be a real boy,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":595.17,"endTime":601.38,"body":"you've got to be interested in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":595.17,"endTime":601.38,"body":"football and war. But it wasn't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":601.38,"endTime":607.68,"body":"until probably around. Well,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":601.38,"endTime":607.68,"body":"certainly the mid 60s, I guess."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":608.82,"endTime":614.46,"body":"We went on holiday to Devon So,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":608.82,"endTime":614.46,"body":"so we stayed at a caravan site."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":614.46,"endTime":618.87,"body":"And in the little shop on the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":614.46,"endTime":618.87,"body":"caravan sides, they had a rack"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":618.87,"endTime":623.22,"body":"with some American comic books"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":618.87,"endTime":623.22,"body":"in. And I'd never seen American"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":623.22,"endTime":626.94,"body":"comic books before. So they had,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":623.22,"endTime":626.94,"body":"I still have the first one I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":627.24,"endTime":633.06,"body":"bought, which was an Avengers,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":627.24,"endTime":633.06,"body":"comic Avengers number 44. I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":633.06,"endTime":637.02,"body":"think, as spider man and you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":633.06,"endTime":637.02,"body":"know, Captain America, well,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":637.02,"endTime":639.99,"body":"those kinds of things. And I was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":637.02,"endTime":639.99,"body":"absolutely blown away by these"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":639.99,"endTime":644.4,"body":"things. These were not just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":639.99,"endTime":644.4,"body":"comics about football and war,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":644.4,"endTime":649.14,"body":"these were comics about real"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":644.4,"endTime":649.14,"body":"larger than life characters. But"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":649.14,"endTime":653.4,"body":"there was so much drama. In the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":649.14,"endTime":653.4,"body":"end, even though I didn't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":653.43,"endTime":658.74,"body":"understand the metaphor at that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":653.43,"endTime":658.74,"body":"age, you understood how very,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":658.74,"endTime":661.5,"body":"very normal sort of human"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":658.74,"endTime":661.5,"body":"condition is being played,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":661.53,"endTime":665.64,"body":"played out large by superheroes."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":661.53,"endTime":665.64,"body":"And I was fast and also"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":665.64,"endTime":669.27,"body":"fascinated by the drawing style"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":665.64,"endTime":669.27,"body":"because the difference between"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":669.27,"endTime":672.96,"body":"American comics and British"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":669.27,"endTime":672.96,"body":"comics was that British comics"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":672.96,"endTime":677.37,"body":"were were very illustrated, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":672.96,"endTime":677.37,"body":"know, almost in a classic sense,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":677.37,"endTime":680.16,"body":"you know, there's lots of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":677.37,"endTime":680.16,"body":"shading pen and ink drawings."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":681.03,"endTime":685.5,"body":"Whereas American comic books"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":681.03,"endTime":685.5,"body":"were very much in line, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":685.83,"endTime":689.67,"body":"shock horror, they were in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":685.83,"endTime":689.67,"body":"colour. I mean, we didn't have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":689.67,"endTime":695.37,"body":"an awful lot of colouring in and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":689.67,"endTime":695.37,"body":"comics, or at life. For America,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":695.37,"endTime":699.51,"body":"you know, so America became"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":695.37,"endTime":699.51,"body":"this, this amazing place, almost"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":699.51,"endTime":702.78,"body":"like this fairytale land where"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":699.51,"endTime":702.78,"body":"they had these amazing stories"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":702.78,"endTime":706.71,"body":"and comics in colour. So that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":702.78,"endTime":706.71,"body":"that was when I became"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":706.74,"endTime":710.61,"body":"absolutely hooked. Absolutely"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":706.74,"endTime":710.61,"body":"hooked on comics. And that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":710.64,"endTime":715.95,"body":"influenced, like, you asked me"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":710.64,"endTime":715.95,"body":"if I had a drawing style. That"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":715.95,"endTime":719.94,"body":"was the thing that then defined"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":715.95,"endTime":719.94,"body":"my drawing style more than"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":719.94,"endTime":724.35,"body":"anything else. Yeah. It wasn't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":719.94,"endTime":724.35,"body":"just in terms of style as well."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":724.35,"endTime":729.93,"body":"The other thing that sort of ran"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":724.35,"endTime":729.93,"body":"alongside that, and kind of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":729.93,"endTime":734.85,"body":"reinforced it as well, was that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":729.93,"endTime":734.85,"body":"like, like many children, I had"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":734.85,"endTime":737.73,"body":"a love of cartoons really,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":734.85,"endTime":737.73,"body":"really love cartoons, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":737.73,"endTime":741.99,"body":"on the TV. So like Disney and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":737.73,"endTime":741.99,"body":"those kind of cartoons. My"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":741.99,"endTime":745.53,"body":"mother has a picture book of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":741.99,"endTime":745.53,"body":"lady in the tramp that Disney"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":745.53,"endTime":748.44,"body":"classic, the images, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":745.53,"endTime":748.44,"body":"were taken from the animation,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":748.44,"endTime":752.31,"body":"they weren't drawings done by"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":748.44,"endTime":752.31,"body":"somebody else, or whatever. I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":752.31,"endTime":755.73,"body":"used to try and copy them, but I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":752.31,"endTime":755.73,"body":"could never get it quite right."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":756.12,"endTime":759.57,"body":"So I would trace them back."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":756.12,"endTime":759.57,"body":"Because in the house, we didn't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":759.57,"endTime":763.2,"body":"have much in the way of art"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":759.57,"endTime":763.2,"body":"supplies. So I would pinch"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":763.38,"endTime":767.61,"body":"sheets of greaseproof paper from"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":763.38,"endTime":767.61,"body":"my mother's kitchen drawer, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":767.61,"endTime":772.77,"body":"trace the characters. I mean, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":767.61,"endTime":772.77,"body":"was doing it because I wanted to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":772.77,"endTime":775.62,"body":"do a drawing, they looked"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":772.77,"endTime":775.62,"body":"exactly like the character. But"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":775.62,"endTime":779.49,"body":"what was happening that I was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":775.62,"endTime":779.49,"body":"possibly not aware of, at the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":779.49,"endTime":783.99,"body":"time was that by doing that, it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":779.49,"endTime":783.99,"body":"really was creating an"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":783.99,"endTime":788.67,"body":"understanding of enormous muscle"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":783.99,"endTime":788.67,"body":"memory as to how lines very,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":788.67,"endTime":794.52,"body":"very few lines can be used and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":788.67,"endTime":794.52,"body":"constructed to create what you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":794.52,"endTime":798.54,"body":"perceive is very complicated"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":794.52,"endTime":798.54,"body":"characters. Because to make an"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":798.54,"endTime":801.93,"body":"animation, you have to you have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":798.54,"endTime":801.93,"body":"to be really economic with line."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":802.44,"endTime":805.41,"body":"Otherwise, you'd never get all"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":802.44,"endTime":805.41,"body":"the drawings done. So they they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":805.47,"endTime":809.67,"body":"really do bear it down to its"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":805.47,"endTime":809.67,"body":"absolute minimum. And yet, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":809.67,"endTime":814.38,"body":"can create a whole character"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":809.67,"endTime":814.38,"body":"full of emotion. That was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":814.38,"endTime":817.17,"body":"fascinating, and definitely"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":814.38,"endTime":817.17,"body":"something that I was absorbing."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":817.53,"endTime":818.91,"body":"While while doing that,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":819.209,"endTime":820.019,"body":"yeah."},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":820.979,"endTime":824.579,"body":"Do you think"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":820.979,"endTime":824.579,"body":"that knowing what you were good"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":824.579,"endTime":828.839,"body":"at and what you enjoy doing? Do"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":824.579,"endTime":828.839,"body":"you think that informed your"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":828.839,"endTime":831.089,"body":"secondary education and beyond?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":832.68,"endTime":835.8,"body":"Yeah, I mean, I've"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":832.68,"endTime":835.8,"body":"having having bought our"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":835.8,"endTime":841.47,"body":"children myself, I know that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":835.8,"endTime":841.47,"body":"when a child becomes a teenager,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":841.47,"endTime":845.34,"body":"and then nannies looking at what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":841.47,"endTime":845.34,"body":"they're going to pursue in life,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":846.54,"endTime":851.04,"body":"you cannot tell them what to do."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":846.54,"endTime":851.04,"body":"The only thing that will make a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":851.04,"endTime":855.54,"body":"difference to a young person,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":851.04,"endTime":855.54,"body":"then moving forward into their"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":855.54,"endTime":859.62,"body":"own life is for them to find"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":855.54,"endTime":859.62,"body":"something that inspires them,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":859.92,"endTime":863.82,"body":"because then they will apply the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":859.92,"endTime":863.82,"body":"energy and the time. You can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":863.82,"endTime":866.58,"body":"tell young people what they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":863.82,"endTime":866.58,"body":"should be doing. But they are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":866.58,"endTime":869.76,"body":"they'll hear it, but they won't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":866.58,"endTime":869.76,"body":"take any notice. So and it was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":869.76,"endTime":872.79,"body":"the same for me, I think,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":869.76,"endTime":872.79,"body":"because I was so interested in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":872.79,"endTime":879.0,"body":"drawing. I was on a singular"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":872.79,"endTime":879.0,"body":"path of wanting to do that."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":879.12,"endTime":883.47,"body":"Really. I passed the 11 plus as"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":879.12,"endTime":883.47,"body":"we used to have it in the old"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":883.47,"endTime":887.67,"body":"days. So at the end of your"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":883.47,"endTime":887.67,"body":"primary school years, you do an"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":887.67,"endTime":892.32,"body":"exam to see which school you'll"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":887.67,"endTime":892.32,"body":"go to, which then defines what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":892.32,"endTime":896.85,"body":"level of education you'll have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":892.32,"endTime":896.85,"body":"in secondary school, which is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":896.88,"endTime":902.19,"body":"pretty crucial. It's such a such"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":896.88,"endTime":902.19,"body":"a young Age, for whatever reason"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":902.19,"endTime":906.21,"body":"I did really well in the 1111"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":902.19,"endTime":906.21,"body":"class and I, I got a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":906.27,"endTime":911.25,"body":"scholarship. So I went to an all"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":906.27,"endTime":911.25,"body":"boys school with, to have to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":911.25,"endTime":914.25,"body":"quite a large extent a very"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":911.25,"endTime":914.25,"body":"classic education, not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":914.25,"endTime":917.28,"body":"necessarily in the classics."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":914.25,"endTime":917.28,"body":"Although we did do Latin in the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":917.28,"endTime":922.83,"body":"first two years, I had a very"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":917.28,"endTime":922.83,"body":"good education. But I didn't do"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":922.86,"endTime":926.04,"body":"particularly well academically,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":922.86,"endTime":926.04,"body":"because the only thing that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":926.04,"endTime":930.93,"body":"really interests me was was art."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":926.04,"endTime":930.93,"body":"And geography because I liked"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":930.93,"endTime":937.5,"body":"doing all the diagrams of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":930.93,"endTime":937.5,"body":"strata. And so I was, I was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":937.5,"endTime":941.22,"body":"already beginning to think what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":937.5,"endTime":941.22,"body":"do you have to do to have an art"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":941.22,"endTime":944.52,"body":"career, I said earlier on about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":941.22,"endTime":944.52,"body":"how my mother was always very"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":944.85,"endTime":951.57,"body":"supportive. I grew up as a as a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":944.85,"endTime":951.57,"body":"Methodist. And my parents would"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":951.57,"endTime":958.23,"body":"go to chapel. And she, she met"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":951.57,"endTime":958.23,"body":"somebody at chapels, she came up"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":958.23,"endTime":961.8,"body":"to me and she said, Oh, I made"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":958.23,"endTime":961.8,"body":"this, this person. And he's a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":961.98,"endTime":967.41,"body":"commercial artist, which was the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":961.98,"endTime":967.41,"body":"first time that we as we as a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":967.41,"endTime":971.34,"body":"family, I guess, or me and a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":967.41,"endTime":971.34,"body":"parent have realised that there"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":971.34,"endTime":976.53,"body":"was a possibility of doing that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":971.34,"endTime":976.53,"body":"as a job. Because a job in art"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":976.53,"endTime":980.31,"body":"or making money in art was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":976.53,"endTime":980.31,"body":"always something that was just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":980.31,"endTime":984.21,"body":"so far removed from the reality"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":980.31,"endTime":984.21,"body":"of somebody growing up in a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":984.36,"endTime":987.51,"body":"suburb of Bedford, you know, so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":984.36,"endTime":987.51,"body":"that that was quite interesting"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":987.51,"endTime":991.29,"body":"is that so that fed into my, my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":987.51,"endTime":991.29,"body":"fantasy of Oh, I might be able"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":991.29,"endTime":994.5,"body":"to draw comics One day, he was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":991.29,"endTime":994.5,"body":"almost like the dream of being a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":994.5,"endTime":996.78,"body":"rock star. And it's not going to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":994.5,"endTime":996.78,"body":"happen, but you have those"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":996.78,"endTime":999.24,"body":"dreams, but it just seemed like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":996.78,"endTime":999.24,"body":"the maybe there was some"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":999.24,"endTime":1004.13,"body":"possibility. So I was interested"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":999.24,"endTime":1004.13,"body":"in pursuing art. And I was, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1004.13,"endTime":1009.62,"body":"was encouraged, not in any way"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1004.13,"endTime":1009.62,"body":"to pursue, the couriers are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1009.62,"endTime":1012.56,"body":"coming, because their managers"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1009.62,"endTime":1012.56,"body":"not nobody was interested in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1012.56,"endTime":1016.76,"body":"that at all. But I was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1012.56,"endTime":1016.76,"body":"encouraged with to do art school"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1016.76,"endTime":1018.35,"body":"got an A for my own level."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1020.059,"endTime":1025.219,"body":"And I managed to scrape together"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1020.059,"endTime":1025.219,"body":"for our level results. Now to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1025.219,"endTime":1028.939,"body":"get into the sixth form at the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1025.219,"endTime":1028.939,"body":"school I went to, you had to get"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1028.939,"endTime":1034.249,"body":"a minimum of five oh levels. But"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1028.939,"endTime":1034.249,"body":"one of the teachers championed"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1034.249,"endTime":1036.469,"body":"me a bit. And he said, I think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1034.249,"endTime":1036.469,"body":"Andrew do really well, in the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1036.469,"endTime":1040.039,"body":"sixth form, you know, he was so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1036.469,"endTime":1040.039,"body":"close to actually getting"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1040.039,"endTime":1043.909,"body":"probably six or levels, but I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1040.039,"endTime":1043.909,"body":"got, you know, just miss getting"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1043.909,"endTime":1048.559,"body":"the required, see for a couple"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1043.909,"endTime":1048.559,"body":"of them. So they, they decided"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1048.559,"endTime":1052.039,"body":"that I could go and go into the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1048.559,"endTime":1052.039,"body":"sixth form. So I studied the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1052.039,"endTime":1056.779,"body":"bizarre combination of math, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1052.039,"endTime":1056.779,"body":"think, as mass economics are not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1057.589,"endTime":1061.399,"body":"always a given because I've got"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1057.589,"endTime":1061.399,"body":"an MA and the other two, I've"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1061.399,"endTime":1064.279,"body":"done really well at Mass"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1061.399,"endTime":1064.279,"body":"bizarrely. So they did that. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1064.279,"endTime":1066.379,"body":"then they thought economics"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1064.279,"endTime":1066.379,"body":"would go with sit nice. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1066.379,"endTime":1069.619,"body":"alongside that. And for goodness"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1066.379,"endTime":1069.619,"body":"sake, give me more chance of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1069.619,"endTime":1075.559,"body":"getting a job. So So I did one"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1069.619,"endTime":1075.559,"body":"year of the sixth form. And it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1075.559,"endTime":1079.369,"body":"wasn't going particularly well."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1075.559,"endTime":1079.369,"body":"But I can remember, at the end"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1079.369,"endTime":1083.269,"body":"of one of my economics lessons,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1079.369,"endTime":1083.269,"body":"the economics teacher whose name"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1083.269,"endTime":1086.719,"body":"was Mr. Butler, he said,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1083.269,"endTime":1086.719,"body":"wildeman because we're all"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1086.719,"endTime":1089.599,"body":"referred to by surnames, there"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1086.719,"endTime":1089.599,"body":"was no first names at that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1089.599,"endTime":1092.179,"body":"school. I stayed behind at the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1089.599,"endTime":1092.179,"body":"end of the lesson, I need to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1092.179,"endTime":1096.919,"body":"talk to you, I was like, Okay."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1092.179,"endTime":1096.919,"body":"And he said, what you're going"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1096.919,"endTime":1102.589,"body":"to do then? And I said, I'm just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1096.919,"endTime":1102.589,"body":"going off to my art lesson. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1102.589,"endTime":1106.699,"body":"you said, No, not now you're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1102.589,"endTime":1106.699,"body":"full. What are you gonna do? You"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1106.699,"endTime":1111.169,"body":"can't stay here, you're not good"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1106.699,"endTime":1111.169,"body":"enough. And that's the way he"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1111.169,"endTime":1114.529,"body":"said it. What was the intention"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1111.169,"endTime":1114.529,"body":"behind what he was saying? I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1114.529,"endTime":1117.859,"body":"will never know how he was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1114.529,"endTime":1117.859,"body":"hearing himself saying, I will"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1117.859,"endTime":1120.799,"body":"never know. But that's how it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1117.859,"endTime":1120.799,"body":"landed with me. You can't stay"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1120.799,"endTime":1124.579,"body":"here, you're not good enough. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1120.799,"endTime":1124.579,"body":"that was a hell of a blow. So I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1124.579,"endTime":1128.449,"body":"went off to my art lesson. And a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1124.579,"endTime":1128.449,"body":"friend of mine, Robin, he was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1128.449,"endTime":1131.899,"body":"already there. And I said to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1128.449,"endTime":1131.899,"body":"him, you'll never guess what's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1131.899,"endTime":1137.329,"body":"just happened. I said, What? And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1131.899,"endTime":1137.329,"body":"I said, My suppose ID personal"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1137.329,"endTime":1140.479,"body":"tutor, which was Mr. Butler, who"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1137.329,"endTime":1140.479,"body":"I didn't even know was my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1140.479,"endTime":1143.779,"body":"personal tutor. He just told me"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1140.479,"endTime":1143.779,"body":"that I've got to leave, because"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1143.779,"endTime":1147.379,"body":"I'm not good enough to stay"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1143.779,"endTime":1147.379,"body":"here. And Robbie looked at me"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1147.379,"endTime":1152.749,"body":"and he said, they just told me"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1147.379,"endTime":1152.749,"body":"I've got to leave as well. Well,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1152.779,"endTime":1155.539,"body":"I said, What are you going to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1152.779,"endTime":1155.539,"body":"do? And he said, I'm going to go"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1155.539,"endTime":1160.189,"body":"to bonfield College, and I'm"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1155.539,"endTime":1160.189,"body":"going to study graphics. And I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1160.189,"endTime":1165.409,"body":"say, Wow, it's amazing. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1160.189,"endTime":1165.409,"body":"what's graphics? And he? I don't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1165.409,"endTime":1170.809,"body":"know, I think he's drawing and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1165.409,"endTime":1170.809,"body":"stuff. Drawing and stuff. That"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1170.809,"endTime":1173.119,"body":"sounds good. I want to go to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1170.809,"endTime":1173.119,"body":"battlefield college and do"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1173.119,"endTime":1179.299,"body":"drawing and stuff. So I went, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1173.119,"endTime":1179.299,"body":"went home and told my parents"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1179.299,"endTime":1181.699,"body":"the news that I you know, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1179.299,"endTime":1181.699,"body":"couldn't stay at school because"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1181.699,"endTime":1184.579,"body":"I wasn't good enough. And they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1181.699,"endTime":1184.579,"body":"were they were fine. Or they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1184.579,"endTime":1188.239,"body":"were disappointed because they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1184.579,"endTime":1188.239,"body":"had high hopes for me to be some"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1188.239,"endTime":1193.099,"body":"kind of Oxbridge candidate like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1188.239,"endTime":1193.099,"body":"a lot of the kids at the school,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1193.489,"endTime":1197.509,"body":"but clearly that wasn't gonna"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1193.489,"endTime":1197.509,"body":"work out. So my dad told me to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1197.509,"endTime":1200.269,"body":"barnfield College, talk to the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1197.509,"endTime":1200.269,"body":"tutor there now this was Very"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1200.269,"endTime":1205.519,"body":"late in the year, just before"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1200.269,"endTime":1205.519,"body":"the summer holidays. So the guy"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1205.519,"endTime":1209.629,"body":"from the graphics department,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1205.519,"endTime":1209.629,"body":"he, he showed us around. I was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1209.629,"endTime":1211.729,"body":"like, yeah, this is great. I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1209.629,"endTime":1211.729,"body":"want to I want to do this. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1211.729,"endTime":1215.179,"body":"he said, Well, places are all"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1211.729,"endTime":1215.179,"body":"taken now. We haven't got any"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1215.179,"endTime":1218.989,"body":"any availability. And then he"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1215.179,"endTime":1218.989,"body":"said, Well, where do you live?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1219.049,"endTime":1221.119,"body":"He was wondering how close to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1219.049,"endTime":1221.119,"body":"the Coliseum was. And I said,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1221.119,"endTime":1224.569,"body":"Well, I live in Bedford. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1221.119,"endTime":1224.569,"body":"said, Oh, well, why don't you go"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1224.569,"endTime":1229.639,"body":"to Amanda College in in Bedford."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1224.569,"endTime":1229.639,"body":"I didn't really think that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1229.669,"endTime":1233.869,"body":"nobody ever mentioned which is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1229.669,"endTime":1233.869,"body":"ironic, because my dad studied,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1234.259,"endTime":1237.979,"body":"as did some of his studies at"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1234.259,"endTime":1237.979,"body":"lambda college. But anyway, so I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1237.979,"endTime":1241.879,"body":"went to Manor college and did a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1237.979,"endTime":1241.879,"body":"arts foundation course, which is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1241.879,"endTime":1245.359,"body":"like a course prior to then"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1241.879,"endTime":1245.359,"body":"going on to doing a degree. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1245.359,"endTime":1248.449,"body":"you study all various"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1245.359,"endTime":1248.449,"body":"disciplines, which, of course, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1248.449,"endTime":1251.239,"body":"wasn't interested in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1248.449,"endTime":1251.239,"body":"printmaking, or pottery or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1251.239,"endTime":1255.379,"body":"anything like that I just wanted"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1251.239,"endTime":1255.379,"body":"to draw on comics. But of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1255.379,"endTime":1258.409,"body":"course, the other thing was, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1255.379,"endTime":1258.409,"body":"wouldn't be able to get onto a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1258.409,"endTime":1262.519,"body":"degree course from there without"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1258.409,"endTime":1262.519,"body":"getting my art a level. So they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1262.519,"endTime":1266.629,"body":"said you need to do a painting"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1262.519,"endTime":1266.629,"body":"as I okay. And they said, Go"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1266.629,"endTime":1270.109,"body":"into this, this other little"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1266.629,"endTime":1270.109,"body":"side room, a little side studio,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1270.109,"endTime":1274.519,"body":"there wasn't anybody in and do a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1270.109,"endTime":1274.519,"body":"painting. So random. Okay, so I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1274.519,"endTime":1279.169,"body":"can and I literally just took my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1274.519,"endTime":1279.169,"body":"shoes off, put them on the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1279.169,"endTime":1283.819,"body":"table, and it is still life"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1279.169,"endTime":1283.819,"body":"painting of, of my shoes. Got my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1283.819,"endTime":1288.229,"body":"a level. Yeah. And then from"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1283.819,"endTime":1288.229,"body":"there did that did that one year"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1288.229,"endTime":1291.709,"body":"course. And then from there, got"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1288.229,"endTime":1291.709,"body":"a place a list of Polytechnique"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1291.709,"endTime":1296.959,"body":"or De Montfort University as"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1291.709,"endTime":1296.959,"body":"it's known now, and did a degree"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1296.959,"endTime":1299.689,"body":"in graphic design, whoring and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1296.959,"endTime":1299.689,"body":"stuff."},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":1302.21,"endTime":1305.33,"body":"Amazing. I"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":1302.21,"endTime":1305.33,"body":"know you worked as a graphic"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":1305.33,"endTime":1309.41,"body":"designer, but you continue to"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":1305.33,"endTime":1309.41,"body":"seek out illustration work, how"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":1309.41,"endTime":1311.15,"body":"did your career progress?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1311.749,"endTime":1316.699,"body":"Yeah, I because I'd got"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1311.749,"endTime":1316.699,"body":"a graphic design degree, I'd got"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1316.699,"endTime":1320.839,"body":"that in my pocket. So that was a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1316.699,"endTime":1320.839,"body":"qualification. But even even"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1320.839,"endTime":1325.009,"body":"through the three year graphic"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1320.839,"endTime":1325.009,"body":"design degree course, I didn't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1325.009,"endTime":1328.279,"body":"do an awful lot of graphics, to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1325.009,"endTime":1328.279,"body":"be honest. On the graphics core,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1328.279,"endTime":1332.569,"body":"she could specialise in like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1328.279,"endTime":1332.569,"body":"editorial graphics, advertising"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1332.569,"endTime":1338.119,"body":"graphics, you could also"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1332.569,"endTime":1338.119,"body":"specialise in animation, or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1338.389,"endTime":1343.129,"body":"photography or illustration. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1338.389,"endTime":1343.129,"body":"I chose illustration, which was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1343.129,"endTime":1346.999,"body":"a bit of a in some ways, it was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1343.129,"endTime":1346.999,"body":"a bit of a flip of a coin for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1346.999,"endTime":1350.119,"body":"me, because I'd always, as I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1346.999,"endTime":1350.119,"body":"said earlier, I'd always been"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1350.119,"endTime":1354.139,"body":"interested in comics. But I'd"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1350.119,"endTime":1354.139,"body":"also always been interested in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1354.139,"endTime":1359.179,"body":"animation and cartoons. I was an"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1354.139,"endTime":1359.179,"body":"avid watcher of a programme,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1359.599,"endTime":1362.209,"body":"called the Do It Yourself"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1359.599,"endTime":1362.209,"body":"animation show. I think it's a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1362.209,"endTime":1367.669,"body":"BBC by Bob Godfrey, who did"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1362.209,"endTime":1367.669,"body":"rhubarb and custard. And I loved"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1367.669,"endTime":1370.909,"body":"all of that. And I've got his"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1367.669,"endTime":1370.909,"body":"book. And so I understand I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1370.909,"endTime":1374.269,"body":"understood all the, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1370.909,"endTime":1374.269,"body":"the fundamentals of animation"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1374.629,"endTime":1378.139,"body":"from a very early age so, so I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1374.629,"endTime":1378.139,"body":"did have an interest in it, but"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1378.139,"endTime":1382.579,"body":"not enough of an interest to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1378.139,"endTime":1382.579,"body":"pursue that. As my specialism."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1383.029,"endTime":1388.789,"body":"It also sounded like hard work"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1383.029,"endTime":1388.789,"body":"with the illustration course,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1388.789,"endTime":1392.599,"body":"70s, I was just so lazy. The"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1388.789,"endTime":1392.599,"body":"illustration course sounded a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1392.989,"endTime":1397.579,"body":"bit of an easier ride but but I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1392.989,"endTime":1397.579,"body":"took the word specialised to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1397.579,"endTime":1402.019,"body":"heart really every illustrator"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1397.579,"endTime":1402.019,"body":"project that I was given, where"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1402.019,"endTime":1405.169,"body":"they tried to get you to engage"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1402.019,"endTime":1405.169,"body":"with different disciplines. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1405.169,"endTime":1409.489,"body":"there would be painting and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1405.169,"endTime":1409.489,"body":"sometimes using watercolour,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1409.489,"endTime":1413.869,"body":"sometimes using acrylics,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1409.489,"endTime":1413.869,"body":"sometimes using paper cutouts,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1414.169,"endTime":1417.649,"body":"all different styles of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1414.169,"endTime":1417.649,"body":"illustration, because everything"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1417.649,"endTime":1421.279,"body":"that I did looked like a comic"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1417.649,"endTime":1421.279,"body":"book, you know, it was all line"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1421.279,"endTime":1425.269,"body":"and colour. And the other thing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1421.279,"endTime":1425.269,"body":"was that in the third year, I'd"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1425.269,"endTime":1428.719,"body":"started to take trips into"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1425.269,"endTime":1428.719,"body":"London, where there was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1429.349,"endTime":1432.529,"body":"gatherings of people who were"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1429.349,"endTime":1432.529,"body":"interested in, in comics,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1433.88,"endTime":1438.41,"body":"there was something called a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1433.88,"endTime":1438.41,"body":"comic March, they still do them"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1438.41,"endTime":1442.4,"body":"now they were Westminster Hall,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1438.41,"endTime":1442.4,"body":"where people would buy and sell"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1442.4,"endTime":1445.73,"body":"comics, they would have some"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1442.4,"endTime":1445.73,"body":"comics professionals there. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1445.73,"endTime":1449.24,"body":"in some ways, that was the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1445.73,"endTime":1449.24,"body":"beginning of the comic"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1449.24,"endTime":1453.26,"body":"conventions, you know, in its"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1449.24,"endTime":1453.26,"body":"own small embryonic way. So I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1453.26,"endTime":1457.79,"body":"got to, I began to get to know"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1453.26,"endTime":1457.79,"body":"some people in the industry. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1457.79,"endTime":1460.46,"body":"then I joined something called"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1457.79,"endTime":1460.46,"body":"the Society of strip"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1460.46,"endTime":1464.51,"body":"illustration, which was mostly"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1460.46,"endTime":1464.51,"body":"professionals, but they did have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1464.72,"endTime":1467.72,"body":"what they called associate"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1464.72,"endTime":1467.72,"body":"members who were people that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1467.72,"endTime":1471.59,"body":"were wanting to get into the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1467.72,"endTime":1471.59,"body":"industry. And this was in the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1472.28,"endTime":1478.61,"body":"early 80s, so like 82. And so at"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1472.28,"endTime":1478.61,"body":"that age, I was already rubbing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1478.61,"endTime":1482.81,"body":"shoulders with people who were"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1478.61,"endTime":1482.81,"body":"already working in comics, but"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1482.84,"endTime":1486.08,"body":"we're going to become big"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1482.84,"endTime":1486.08,"body":"players in the comics industry."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1486.08,"endTime":1491.36,"body":"So that was an ideal way to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1486.08,"endTime":1491.36,"body":"understand how the industry"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1491.36,"endTime":1496.25,"body":"worked. And also to kind of get"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1491.36,"endTime":1496.25,"body":"criticism of the work that you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1496.25,"endTime":1499.55,"body":"were doing constructive"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1496.25,"endTime":1499.55,"body":"criticism, but I was in no way"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1499.55,"endTime":1503.21,"body":"good enough. But I was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1499.55,"endTime":1503.21,"body":"determined so. So in the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1503.21,"endTime":1507.29,"body":"meantime, I, I worked as a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1503.21,"endTime":1507.29,"body":"graphic designer, myself and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1507.32,"endTime":1511.13,"body":"Leslie, my wife, and a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1507.32,"endTime":1511.13,"body":"photographer, and a guy who was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1511.13,"endTime":1514.94,"body":"a businessman who worked for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1511.13,"endTime":1514.94,"body":"timepiece television. We set up"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1514.94,"endTime":1519.17,"body":"a small graphic design company,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1514.94,"endTime":1519.17,"body":"which ran for three years, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1519.17,"endTime":1522.95,"body":"we did some good work. And then"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1519.17,"endTime":1522.95,"body":"that company folded and I went"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1522.95,"endTime":1527.84,"body":"to work for one of our clients,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1522.95,"endTime":1527.84,"body":"which was a label manufacturing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1527.84,"endTime":1532.28,"body":"company. I ran this very small"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1527.84,"endTime":1532.28,"body":"Art Department there, where we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1532.28,"endTime":1537.17,"body":"do all the artwork for labels,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1532.28,"endTime":1537.17,"body":"mostly like washing labels. But"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1537.17,"endTime":1542.15,"body":"in the meantime, I was beginning"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1537.17,"endTime":1542.15,"body":"to get bits of freelance work"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1542.15,"endTime":1546.95,"body":"from Marvel UK. In London, there"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1542.15,"endTime":1546.95,"body":"was Marvel, UK were publishing,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1547.7,"endTime":1552.68,"body":"reprint material of stuff from"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1547.7,"endTime":1552.68,"body":"America, so they were reprinting"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1553.31,"endTime":1556.55,"body":"Spider Man, the Avengers, all"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1553.31,"endTime":1556.55,"body":"that kind of stuff. But they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1556.55,"endTime":1559.85,"body":"were also starting to generate"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1556.55,"endTime":1559.85,"body":"some of their own content. They"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1559.85,"endTime":1565.52,"body":"were doing a thundercats comic,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1559.85,"endTime":1565.52,"body":"and Real Ghostbusters comic"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1565.52,"endTime":1569.06,"body":"stuff based on TV shows, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1565.52,"endTime":1569.06,"body":"they did a Transformers comic, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1569.06,"endTime":1573.17,"body":"got an interview with them. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1569.06,"endTime":1573.17,"body":"they looked at my portfolio and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1573.23,"endTime":1576.98,"body":"they gave me some work on the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1573.23,"endTime":1576.98,"body":"thundercats coming. It was a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1576.98,"endTime":1580.4,"body":"good one to get an all budding"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1576.98,"endTime":1580.4,"body":"artists liked it because the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1580.4,"endTime":1585.26,"body":"thundercats characters, and it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1580.4,"endTime":1585.26,"body":"looks like superheroes. You"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1585.26,"endTime":1588.47,"body":"know, they were they were sort"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1585.26,"endTime":1588.47,"body":"of human looking. But one was a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1588.47,"endTime":1591.44,"body":"bit like a lion was a bit like a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1588.47,"endTime":1591.44,"body":"cheater, you know, this kind of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1591.44,"endTime":1598.61,"body":"thing. But so it felt like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1591.44,"endTime":1598.61,"body":"cutting your teeth drawing, kind"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1598.61,"endTime":1601.22,"body":"of superheroes. So it was good"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1598.61,"endTime":1601.22,"body":"to have to get input in the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1601.22,"endTime":1606.32,"body":"portfolio to eventually show to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1601.22,"endTime":1606.32,"body":"maybe one day Marvel in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1606.32,"endTime":1610.37,"body":"American. But so sometimes I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1606.32,"endTime":1610.37,"body":"would post the artwork into"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1610.4,"endTime":1614.18,"body":"London. And sometimes I would"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1610.4,"endTime":1614.18,"body":"take a trip down there if I was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1614.18,"endTime":1618.17,"body":"going to one of these comic"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1614.18,"endTime":1618.17,"body":"creator meetings in London. So I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1618.17,"endTime":1622.55,"body":"took the artwork into into the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1618.17,"endTime":1622.55,"body":"office to the editor, Steve"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1622.55,"endTime":1626.42,"body":"White, handing it over and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1622.55,"endTime":1626.42,"body":"sitting at the desk next to him,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1626.42,"endTime":1628.43,"body":"there was another editor and it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1626.42,"endTime":1628.43,"body":"was the guy that did the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1628.43,"endTime":1632.3,"body":"Transformers comic. So he kind"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1628.43,"endTime":1632.3,"body":"of peered across and he looked"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1632.3,"endTime":1636.86,"body":"at the work that I'd done. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1632.3,"endTime":1636.86,"body":"he was like, nice, nice work. I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1636.86,"endTime":1639.86,"body":"was I want to thank you. And he"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1636.86,"endTime":1639.86,"body":"said, Do you want to draw some"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1639.86,"endTime":1644.84,"body":"Transformers? So I said, Yes."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1639.86,"endTime":1644.84,"body":"Now I said, Yes. Because I just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1644.84,"endTime":1649.13,"body":"needed work. I wanted to kind of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1644.84,"endTime":1649.13,"body":"earn money, I was still I still"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1649.13,"endTime":1651.65,"body":"working as a graphic designer,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1649.13,"endTime":1651.65,"body":"and certainly all my evenings"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1651.65,"endTime":1655.46,"body":"and weekends, trying to earn"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1651.65,"endTime":1655.46,"body":"enough money to eventually go as"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1655.46,"endTime":1658.97,"body":"a freelance, you know, artists,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1655.46,"endTime":1658.97,"body":"so I would say yes to anything."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1659.48,"endTime":1662.12,"body":"On the inside. I was like, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1659.48,"endTime":1662.12,"body":"don't even know what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1662.12,"endTime":1665.48,"body":"Transformers in. And I said,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1662.12,"endTime":1665.48,"body":"What is it and he said what it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1665.48,"endTime":1667.7,"body":"sees he showed me and I was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1665.48,"endTime":1667.7,"body":"like, Oh my God, this rope I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1667.7,"endTime":1673.52,"body":"don't want to draw robots, or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1667.7,"endTime":1673.52,"body":"robots for why I want to do. Of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1673.52,"endTime":1676.52,"body":"course what I didn't realise it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1673.52,"endTime":1676.52,"body":"was another one of those seminal"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1676.52,"endTime":1680.48,"body":"moments that you look back on"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1676.52,"endTime":1680.48,"body":"because being involved with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1680.48,"endTime":1687.95,"body":"Transformers was the thing that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1680.48,"endTime":1687.95,"body":"gave me my in to marvel us. It"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1687.95,"endTime":1691.22,"body":"was through them recognising the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1687.95,"endTime":1691.22,"body":"Transformers work that I did for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1691.22,"endTime":1696.26,"body":"Marvel UK. That had them"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1691.22,"endTime":1696.26,"body":"eventually asked me to do the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1696.26,"endTime":1699.23,"body":"American Transformers comic,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1696.26,"endTime":1699.23,"body":"which was the beginning of my,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1699.95,"endTime":1703.1,"body":"my whole kind of career as a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1699.95,"endTime":1703.1,"body":"comic book artist"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":1703.55,"endTime":1707.75,"body":"may sing. So"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":1703.55,"endTime":1707.75,"body":"far, your story has been very"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":1707.75,"endTime":1711.5,"body":"positive and creative in your in"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":1707.75,"endTime":1711.5,"body":"the right direction and"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":1711.5,"endTime":1715.7,"body":"everything sunny and lovely. But"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":1711.5,"endTime":1715.7,"body":"there is about to be a change"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":1715.7,"endTime":1719.18,"body":"for the worst through no fault"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":1715.7,"endTime":1719.18,"body":"of your own. Can you explain"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":1719.18,"endTime":1722.93,"body":"what happened and how that"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":1719.18,"endTime":1722.93,"body":"affected you both as a person"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":1722.96,"endTime":1725.63,"body":"and as an artist? Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1726.02,"endTime":1729.74,"body":"yeah. So like, I kind"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1726.02,"endTime":1729.74,"body":"of likened working in comics to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1729.77,"endTime":1734.36,"body":"like being a rock star. So like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1729.77,"endTime":1734.36,"body":"any budding rock star, it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1734.36,"endTime":1736.88,"body":"going to go one way or the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1734.36,"endTime":1736.88,"body":"other, it can go really well and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1736.88,"endTime":1741.59,"body":"then you can fall out of favour."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1736.88,"endTime":1741.59,"body":"My comics career was on it was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1741.59,"endTime":1745.58,"body":"on an app, the work that I did"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1741.59,"endTime":1745.58,"body":"on Transformers was recognised"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1745.58,"endTime":1749.39,"body":"by other editors. So then they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1745.58,"endTime":1749.39,"body":"gave me work on a book called GI"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1749.39,"endTime":1754.61,"body":"Joe, which was another toy book,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1749.39,"endTime":1754.61,"body":"but it was humans essentially."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1754.94,"endTime":1758.72,"body":"So that was a step in the right"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1754.94,"endTime":1758.72,"body":"direction. I eventually came off"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1758.72,"endTime":1763.64,"body":"of GI Joe, because myself, my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1758.72,"endTime":1763.64,"body":"wife, we've got young children"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1763.64,"endTime":1768.32,"body":"then, and our little boy,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1763.64,"endTime":1768.32,"body":"Frankie, he asked me what else I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1768.32,"endTime":1771.65,"body":"was drawing, and I became aware"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1768.32,"endTime":1771.65,"body":"of the fact that I was drawing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1771.65,"endTime":1776.42,"body":"people shooting each other. That"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1771.65,"endTime":1776.42,"body":"realisation didn't sit very well"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1776.42,"endTime":1780.8,"body":"with me as a father of young"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1776.42,"endTime":1780.8,"body":"children. So I wanted to move"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1780.8,"endTime":1785.42,"body":"off of GI Joe and I was offered"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1780.8,"endTime":1785.42,"body":"a book called x men adventures,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1785.42,"endTime":1791.24,"body":"which was incredible, because it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1785.42,"endTime":1791.24,"body":"was proper Marvel characters. It"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1791.24,"endTime":1794.87,"body":"was an excellent ex member, but"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1791.24,"endTime":1794.87,"body":"it was an easy kind of stepping"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1794.87,"endTime":1797.3,"body":"stone because it was a version"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1794.87,"endTime":1797.3,"body":"of the book that was based on"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1797.3,"endTime":1802.73,"body":"the animated TV show. It wasn't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1797.3,"endTime":1802.73,"body":"part Have the kind of Marvel's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1802.73,"endTime":1806.57,"body":"storyline as such. Nevertheless,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1802.73,"endTime":1806.57,"body":"it was excellent. And so I was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1806.6,"endTime":1811.67,"body":"absolutely thrilled. Got got"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1806.6,"endTime":1811.67,"body":"notice for doing that, one of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1811.67,"endTime":1815.63,"body":"the covers that I did issue"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1811.67,"endTime":1815.63,"body":"number six, I did a couple of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1815.63,"endTime":1820.25,"body":"thumbnails and sent them in. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1815.63,"endTime":1820.25,"body":"the editor wasn't sure which one"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1820.28,"endTime":1823.82,"body":"he thought would work. So he"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1820.28,"endTime":1823.82,"body":"asked the guy who was in charge"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1823.82,"endTime":1827.45,"body":"of all the x men books, he came"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1823.82,"endTime":1827.45,"body":"back and he said, cover number"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1827.45,"endTime":1831.17,"body":"two version, he said, do that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1827.45,"endTime":1831.17,"body":"one. And I said to the editor,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1831.35,"endTime":1834.29,"body":"you know what, I don't agree"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1831.35,"endTime":1834.29,"body":"with him. And he, I could hear"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1834.29,"endTime":1840.41,"body":"him almost all day. You can't do"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1834.29,"endTime":1840.41,"body":"that to the boss. So I said, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1840.41,"endTime":1842.51,"body":"really don't agree. I think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1840.41,"endTime":1842.51,"body":"cover number one, the other"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1842.51,"endTime":1847.01,"body":"SketchUp down is much better. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1842.51,"endTime":1847.01,"body":"can you go and ask him again."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1847.25,"endTime":1851.48,"body":"And he said, We don't normally"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1847.25,"endTime":1851.48,"body":"do that. The boss's decision is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1851.48,"endTime":1855.05,"body":"fine. All but he said, this may"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1851.48,"endTime":1855.05,"body":"well backfire on you. But I'll"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1855.05,"endTime":1858.56,"body":"ask him. He was slightly annoyed"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1855.05,"endTime":1858.56,"body":"about it, the the guy in charge"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1858.56,"endTime":1862.31,"body":"of the excellent books, but his"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1858.56,"endTime":1862.31,"body":"word back was? Well, if he's if"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1862.31,"endTime":1864.77,"body":"he seems that determined, then"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1862.31,"endTime":1864.77,"body":"let him do it, but I'm not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1864.77,"endTime":1866.57,"body":"happy. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1867.56,"endTime":1870.74,"body":"anyway, I did that I did that."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1867.56,"endTime":1870.74,"body":"And the sales fit the sales"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1870.74,"endTime":1875.42,"body":"figures went up with that with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1870.74,"endTime":1875.42,"body":"that issue. Not only that, but"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1875.42,"endTime":1881.3,"body":"that piece of artwork. It's been"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1875.42,"endTime":1881.3,"body":"used on T shirts and all sorts"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1881.3,"endTime":1884.39,"body":"of different things, and you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1881.3,"endTime":1884.39,"body":"still see it pop up even today."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1884.99,"endTime":1888.5,"body":"So it was it was a hell of a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1884.99,"endTime":1888.5,"body":"boost to my ego. Then I was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1888.53,"endTime":1893.33,"body":"asked to do a spider man book,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1888.53,"endTime":1893.33,"body":"which was in proper Marvel, this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1893.33,"endTime":1897.62,"body":"was you know, I was really,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1893.33,"endTime":1897.62,"body":"really doing well then. And then"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1897.62,"endTime":1902.78,"body":"I did a venom book, which was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1897.62,"endTime":1902.78,"body":"amazing. So I felt like I was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1902.81,"endTime":1908.12,"body":"properly one of the team. We"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1902.81,"endTime":1908.12,"body":"were at the mid 90s by them. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1908.15,"endTime":1912.86,"body":"the comics industry went into a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1908.15,"endTime":1912.86,"body":"massive downturn. They'd had an"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1912.86,"endTime":1917.12,"body":"incredible journey through the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1912.86,"endTime":1917.12,"body":"through the 80s and early 90s."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1917.12,"endTime":1920.0,"body":"Because because of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1917.12,"endTime":1920.0,"body":"popularity of things like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1920.0,"endTime":1926.12,"body":"watchmen, that DC published, a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1920.0,"endTime":1926.12,"body":"lot of collectors started, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1926.12,"endTime":1929.0,"body":"know, came in and started"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1926.12,"endTime":1929.0,"body":"collecting comics, not comics"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1929.0,"endTime":1933.86,"body":"fans necessarily but people who"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1929.0,"endTime":1933.86,"body":"were investors investing in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1934.13,"endTime":1936.8,"body":"issue number ones of things and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1934.13,"endTime":1936.8,"body":"whatever. So there were a lot of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1936.8,"endTime":1940.52,"body":"investors coming in. But the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1936.8,"endTime":1940.52,"body":"bubble in that kind of burst in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1940.52,"endTime":1946.61,"body":"the mid 90s. And sales figures"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1940.52,"endTime":1946.61,"body":"absolutely plummeted was a huge"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1947.18,"endTime":1950.15,"body":"knock to the industry. So they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1947.18,"endTime":1950.15,"body":"were cancelling books left,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1950.15,"endTime":1953.78,"body":"right and centre. One of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1950.15,"endTime":1953.78,"body":"books I was going to be doing I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1953.78,"endTime":1958.34,"body":"was on was going to be cancelled"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1953.78,"endTime":1958.34,"body":"Spider Man 2099. So they took me"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1958.34,"endTime":1964.25,"body":"off of that. I managed to get a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1958.34,"endTime":1964.25,"body":"I flew over to America a couple"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1964.25,"endTime":1967.1,"body":"of times to talk to different"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1964.25,"endTime":1967.1,"body":"editors. And one of the editors"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1967.1,"endTime":1972.08,"body":"I got on really well with the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1967.1,"endTime":1972.08,"body":"guy called nel Yom Tov awesome"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1972.08,"endTime":1975.56,"body":"chap. And he said, the only"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1972.08,"endTime":1975.56,"body":"thing I can offer you and he was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1975.56,"endTime":1978.14,"body":"going to be losing his job as"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1975.56,"endTime":1978.14,"body":"well, editors were being fired"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1978.14,"endTime":1983.81,"body":"as well. He said, I've got one"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1978.14,"endTime":1983.81,"body":"and a half issues of a book"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1983.81,"endTime":1987.17,"body":"called false works, which was,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1983.81,"endTime":1987.17,"body":"it was essentially one of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1987.17,"endTime":1992.51,"body":"Avengers books. And I gave it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1987.17,"endTime":1992.51,"body":"everything. Like I really upped"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1992.51,"endTime":1996.92,"body":"my game, like I'd never done it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1992.51,"endTime":1996.92,"body":"before. And to this day, that is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1996.92,"endTime":2003.88,"body":"still the best mainstream comics"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1996.92,"endTime":2003.88,"body":"work I've ever done. But it was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2003.88,"endTime":2008.77,"body":"cancelled after that. There,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2003.88,"endTime":2008.77,"body":"there wasn't anything. And so I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2008.77,"endTime":2012.94,"body":"was out of work. Just overnight,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2008.77,"endTime":2012.94,"body":"pretty much probably wasn't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2012.94,"endTime":2016.48,"body":"actually overnight, it felt like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2012.94,"endTime":2016.48,"body":"it had gone from hero to zero."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2016.81,"endTime":2021.94,"body":"Very quickly. I did some UK"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2016.81,"endTime":2021.94,"body":"stuff again. It was great. It"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2021.94,"endTime":2026.26,"body":"was still comics, but it wasn't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2021.94,"endTime":2026.26,"body":"really, you know, it wasn't when"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2026.26,"endTime":2030.34,"body":"it could have been. And that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2026.26,"endTime":2030.34,"body":"affected me personally and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2030.34,"endTime":2036.64,"body":"emotionally very, very deeply"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2030.34,"endTime":2036.64,"body":"because I was born in 1961."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2037.09,"endTime":2041.05,"body":"Fantastic for number one, which"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2037.09,"endTime":2041.05,"body":"was the first proper Marvel"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2041.05,"endTime":2045.49,"body":"comic came out in 1961. there's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2041.05,"endTime":2045.49,"body":"a there's a group of people of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2045.49,"endTime":2049.18,"body":"my generation who worked in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2045.49,"endTime":2049.18,"body":"comics, they do kind of carry"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2049.18,"endTime":2051.79,"body":"that thing where they were born"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2049.18,"endTime":2051.79,"body":"the same year that Marvel"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2051.79,"endTime":2056.35,"body":"started and ended up working for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2051.79,"endTime":2056.35,"body":"them. So not only was I out of a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2056.35,"endTime":2062.41,"body":"job, but I had, I felt like in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2056.35,"endTime":2062.41,"body":"many ways, being overly"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2062.41,"endTime":2067.33,"body":"dramatic. I know, but my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2062.41,"endTime":2067.33,"body":"childhood and my destiny taken"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2067.33,"endTime":2072.4,"body":"away from me. And that resulted"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2067.33,"endTime":2072.4,"body":"in a minor breakdown. I mean,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2072.4,"endTime":2076.57,"body":"literally, a breakdown not I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2072.4,"endTime":2076.57,"body":"wasn't hospitalised or anything"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2076.57,"endTime":2080.71,"body":"but I ended up having a year of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2076.57,"endTime":2080.71,"body":"counselling, medication, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2080.71,"endTime":2084.01,"body":"know that all that kind of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2080.71,"endTime":2084.01,"body":"stuff? Because I had to reassess"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2084.01,"endTime":2088.9,"body":"who I was really for myself, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2084.01,"endTime":2088.9,"body":"know, as a creative person. 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You know, and how"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2109.9,"endTime":2113.56,"body":"emotionally we feel positive or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2109.9,"endTime":2113.56,"body":"negative about things, all that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2113.56,"endTime":2118.42,"body":"kind of stuff. My own"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2113.56,"endTime":2118.42,"body":"counselling involved a lot of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2118.42,"endTime":2122.35,"body":"work with dream interpretation."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2118.42,"endTime":2122.35,"body":"She was a Gestalt counsellor,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2122.35,"endTime":2125.38,"body":"and she, you know, she worked"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2122.35,"endTime":2125.38,"body":"with dream interpretation as"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2125.38,"endTime":2128.5,"body":"well. 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Can you tell"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":2136.09,"endTime":2139.9,"body":"me more about those experiences"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":2139.9,"endTime":2141.19,"body":"and what they've taught you?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2141.97,"endTime":2144.73,"body":"Yeah, sure, um, one of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2141.97,"endTime":2144.73,"body":"the things that happened with,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2145.0,"endTime":2148.81,"body":"with the counselling, the one to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2145.0,"endTime":2148.81,"body":"one counselling that I had, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2148.81,"endTime":2154.42,"body":"with the dream interpretation"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2148.81,"endTime":2154.42,"body":"was that I had an idea for a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2154.42,"endTime":2160.6,"body":"book about a character, sort of,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2154.42,"endTime":2160.6,"body":"in a dream world, it was like a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2160.6,"endTime":2165.55,"body":"fantasy story. 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I left"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2194.32,"endTime":2200.08,"body":"the games company because I was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2194.32,"endTime":2200.08,"body":"offered a job by a woman who's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2200.08,"endTime":2202.87,"body":"working for a publishing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2200.08,"endTime":2202.87,"body":"company, doing a series of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2202.87,"endTime":2206.38,"body":"children's books, and she needed"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2202.87,"endTime":2206.38,"body":"somebody to work on those. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2206.38,"endTime":2210.82,"body":"it was, it was going to be a big"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2206.38,"endTime":2210.82,"body":"run of books. It was always"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2210.82,"endTime":2214.72,"body":"going to be like a job for life."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2210.82,"endTime":2214.72,"body":"So I left the games company,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2215.05,"endTime":2218.8,"body":"unless he was going to help me."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2215.05,"endTime":2218.8,"body":"And we started work on that. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2218.8,"endTime":2224.71,"body":"we probably did two books, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2218.8,"endTime":2224.71,"body":"then she lost her contract, not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2224.71,"endTime":2227.71,"body":"literally the woman that had"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2224.71,"endTime":2227.71,"body":"given me the work with them. 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The project"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2401.08,"endTime":2407.32,"body":"that I did was to raise money"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2401.08,"endTime":2407.32,"body":"for street children in Cambodia"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2407.35,"endTime":2411.43,"body":"to help give them an education"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2407.35,"endTime":2411.43,"body":"because I just thought we take"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2411.43,"endTime":2416.44,"body":"for granted so much like I used"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2411.43,"endTime":2416.44,"body":"to moan about my privilege"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2416.47,"endTime":2420.52,"body":"education. You know, I still do,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2416.47,"endTime":2420.52,"body":"I now don't take that for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2420.52,"endTime":2424.18,"body":"granted. That was that was a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2420.52,"endTime":2424.18,"body":"gift, you know. So I created"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2424.18,"endTime":2427.45,"body":"this project where I am, I kind"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2424.18,"endTime":2427.45,"body":"of enrolled all the comics"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2427.45,"endTime":2432.28,"body":"creators, I know, to donate a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2427.45,"endTime":2432.28,"body":"piece of artwork, I then put the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2432.28,"endTime":2437.86,"body":"word out to the comics, sort of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2432.28,"endTime":2437.86,"body":"world fanbase, that on one"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2437.86,"endTime":2442.54,"body":"particular day, there was going"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2437.86,"endTime":2442.54,"body":"to be an auction on eBay. And it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2442.54,"endTime":2446.35,"body":"was amazing. 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It has like a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2522.76,"endTime":2528.28,"body":"layer to it that informs the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2528.28,"endTime":2532.36,"body":"reader in a way that enables"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2528.28,"endTime":2532.36,"body":"them if they want to, to have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2532.36,"endTime":2535.87,"body":"breakthroughs in areas of life"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2532.36,"endTime":2535.87,"body":"where they feel stopped or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2535.87,"endTime":2540.04,"body":"challenge. And I made the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2535.87,"endTime":2540.04,"body":"protagonist of the book, a 15"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2540.04,"endTime":2547.96,"body":"year old girl. So me suddenly"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2540.04,"endTime":2547.96,"body":"kind of autobiographical. Sophie"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2547.96,"endTime":2552.31,"body":"was a doing. So did you used to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2547.96,"endTime":2552.31,"body":"be a 15 year old girl? And it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2552.31,"endTime":2556.12,"body":"like No, but I used to be a 15"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2552.31,"endTime":2556.12,"body":"year old and I know what it is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2556.12,"endTime":2560.14,"body":"to carry the accent of a 15 year"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2556.12,"endTime":2560.14,"body":"old myself unless you bought up"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2560.14,"endTime":2564.91,"body":"two daughters. And I know what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2560.14,"endTime":2564.91,"body":"it is to deal with the anger of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2564.91,"endTime":2568.15,"body":"a 15 year old girl. And it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2564.91,"endTime":2568.15,"body":"seemed like the perfect"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2568.15,"endTime":2573.52,"body":"character to take the reader"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2568.15,"endTime":2573.52,"body":"through that journey. But I've"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2573.52,"endTime":2578.98,"body":"had plaudits by some amazing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2573.52,"endTime":2578.98,"body":"people. You know famed watchmen"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2578.98,"endTime":2582.64,"body":"artists, David Givens as I was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2578.98,"endTime":2582.64,"body":"ready and gave me a wonderful"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2582.64,"endTime":2587.11,"body":"quote, he thought it was great"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2582.64,"endTime":2587.11,"body":"wilcon pert, the BBC arts"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2587.11,"endTime":2592.03,"body":"editor, I did a little radio"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2587.11,"endTime":2592.03,"body":"show with him. And he read it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2592.03,"endTime":2595.39,"body":"and he, you know, he gave me an"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2592.03,"endTime":2595.39,"body":"allen de Botton, the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2595.78,"endTime":2599.89,"body":"philosopher, broadcaster and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2595.78,"endTime":2599.89,"body":"writer. He read it and he just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2599.89,"endTime":2602.8,"body":"said, beautiful, you know, it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2599.89,"endTime":2602.8,"body":"just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2604.12,"endTime":2609.61,"body":"nice to feel all of that sort of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2604.12,"endTime":2609.61,"body":"feedback and feed through. So it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2609.61,"endTime":2612.58,"body":"was in many ways, it was thick,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2609.61,"endTime":2612.58,"body":"it was just things are lining,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2612.58,"endTime":2617.89,"body":"it was me, me and the skills I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2612.58,"endTime":2617.89,"body":"picked up as my years is quite"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2617.92,"endTime":2622.75,"body":"conscious, aligning into"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2617.92,"endTime":2622.75,"body":"something that I'm immensely"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2622.75,"endTime":2627.64,"body":"proud of. And that makes a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2622.75,"endTime":2627.64,"body":"difference. And it's just nice"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2627.64,"endTime":2632.74,"body":"to use the skills that you have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2627.64,"endTime":2632.74,"body":"to provide something for other"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2632.74,"endTime":2636.52,"body":"people to providing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2632.74,"endTime":2636.52,"body":"entertainment, his his, his"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2636.52,"endTime":2640.24,"body":"great fan and a joy but to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2636.52,"endTime":2640.24,"body":"provide something possibly a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2640.24,"endTime":2645.49,"body":"little bit more to inspire that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2640.24,"endTime":2645.49,"body":"he's, you know, he's a real joy."},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":2646.75,"endTime":2649.0,"body":"Brilliant,"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":2646.75,"endTime":2649.0,"body":"and I know you're planning to do"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":2649.0,"endTime":2652.9,"body":"more of that you've got oxygen"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":2649.0,"endTime":2652.9,"body":"underway and plans for another"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":2652.9,"endTime":2655.48,"body":"one after that. Tell me more"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":2652.9,"endTime":2655.48,"body":"about those."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2656.41,"endTime":2660.34,"body":"Yeah, so the horizon is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2656.41,"endTime":2660.34,"body":"very much a comic book style"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2660.34,"endTime":2663.55,"body":"graphic novel, that sort of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2660.34,"endTime":2663.55,"body":"layout and everything that the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2663.55,"endTime":2665.89,"body":"art techniques slightly"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2663.55,"endTime":2665.89,"body":"different. It's not one gentle,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2666.43,"endTime":2668.62,"body":"but I always wanted to do"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2666.43,"endTime":2668.62,"body":"another one. The thing I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2668.62,"endTime":2672.82,"body":"realised with oxygen was that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2668.62,"endTime":2672.82,"body":"the people that pick it up and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2672.82,"endTime":2676.87,"body":"read it, love it. You know"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2672.82,"endTime":2676.87,"body":"people like well, gumpertz"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2676.87,"endTime":2681.4,"body":"industry professionals love it."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2676.87,"endTime":2681.4,"body":"Fans who pick it up at Comic"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2681.4,"endTime":2685.12,"body":"conventions, come back the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2681.4,"endTime":2685.12,"body":"following year and say, I really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2685.12,"endTime":2691.48,"body":"loved it. But what I also know"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2685.12,"endTime":2691.48,"body":"is that it doesn't necessarily"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2691.72,"endTime":2697.15,"body":"instantly appeal to what some"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2691.72,"endTime":2697.15,"body":"people would say is my my kind"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2697.15,"endTime":2701.29,"body":"of obvious fan base which is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2697.15,"endTime":2701.29,"body":"people who like Transformers in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2701.29,"endTime":2704.53,"body":"sci fi and that kind of thing."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2701.29,"endTime":2704.53,"body":"You know, they they'll flick"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2704.53,"endTime":2707.23,"body":"through, but that is not their"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2704.53,"endTime":2707.23,"body":"thing, which is fine. So I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2707.23,"endTime":2712.36,"body":"thought, Okay, so what if I do"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2707.23,"endTime":2712.36,"body":"the same thing, essentially, but"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2712.36,"endTime":2717.49,"body":"in a different genre, and I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2712.36,"endTime":2717.49,"body":"settled on sci fi, but like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2717.49,"endTime":2720.91,"body":"horizon, I wanted to do it in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2717.49,"endTime":2720.91,"body":"like a very small sci fi sense"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2720.91,"endTime":2726.67,"body":"as in a singular character, with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2720.91,"endTime":2726.67,"body":"a companion, going through"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2726.67,"endTime":2730.72,"body":"environments, which is how"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2726.67,"endTime":2730.72,"body":"horizon works. And what happens"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2730.75,"endTime":2734.02,"body":"within those environments,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2730.75,"endTime":2734.02,"body":"creates great breakthroughs for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2734.02,"endTime":2737.92,"body":"the character. And then there's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2734.02,"endTime":2737.92,"body":"a, like a denouement at the end,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2738.61,"endTime":2743.2,"body":"for the reader that makes the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2738.61,"endTime":2743.2,"body":"adds context and makes sense as"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2743.2,"endTime":2746.83,"body":"to what the story is actually"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2743.2,"endTime":2746.83,"body":"about. So I'm doing that with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2746.83,"endTime":2750.04,"body":"something called oxygen, which"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2746.83,"endTime":2750.04,"body":"will be a graphic novel, but at"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2750.04,"endTime":2753.46,"body":"the moment, I'm doing it in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2750.04,"endTime":2753.46,"body":"seven separate comic book"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2753.49,"endTime":2758.59,"body":"issues. The one of the one of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2753.49,"endTime":2758.59,"body":"the differences with with oxygen"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2758.62,"endTime":2763.57,"body":"is the way that I've done the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2758.62,"endTime":2763.57,"body":"book. So horizon was drawn, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2763.57,"endTime":2765.91,"body":"know, with all these kind of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2763.57,"endTime":2765.91,"body":"varying panel layouts that you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2765.91,"endTime":2771.01,"body":"see in comics, it was drawn"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2765.91,"endTime":2771.01,"body":"pencil on paper, which I then"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2771.01,"endTime":2775.03,"body":"scanned in and coloured in the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2771.01,"endTime":2775.03,"body":"computer. But in the intervening"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2775.03,"endTime":2779.56,"body":"years, I've done a lot of work"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2775.03,"endTime":2779.56,"body":"in TV as a storyboard artist,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2779.56,"endTime":2782.59,"body":"which is what what I do now, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2779.56,"endTime":2782.59,"body":"did it on and off for a few"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2782.59,"endTime":2786.01,"body":"years. But now that's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2782.59,"endTime":2786.01,"body":"exclusively what I do for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2786.01,"endTime":2790.51,"body":"animation and for live action."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2786.01,"endTime":2790.51,"body":"But I wanted to do it as"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2790.72,"endTime":2794.41,"body":"storyboard panels. So like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2790.72,"endTime":2794.41,"body":"screen shapes during so on each"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2794.41,"endTime":2798.1,"body":"page, rather than an array of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2794.41,"endTime":2798.1,"body":"five different panels in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2798.1,"endTime":2802.24,"body":"different shapes. I wanted to do"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2798.1,"endTime":2802.24,"body":"three horizontal panels, top to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2802.24,"endTime":2807.73,"body":"bottom, it looks like screen"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2802.24,"endTime":2807.73,"body":"shots from animation if you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2807.73,"endTime":2812.59,"body":"like, I was doing that income"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2807.73,"endTime":2812.59,"body":"paper. But then during lockdown"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2812.59,"endTime":2817.57,"body":"myself and Leslie decamped from"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2812.59,"endTime":2817.57,"body":"our studio in town to home"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2817.6,"endTime":2820.84,"body":"because we had to work from"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2817.6,"endTime":2820.84,"body":"home. And all of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2820.84,"endTime":2825.67,"body":"storyboarding that I do now I do"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2820.84,"endTime":2825.67,"body":"on a computer is still drawn,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2825.67,"endTime":2828.52,"body":"it's drawn on like a, something"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2825.67,"endTime":2828.52,"body":"called a Cintiq. It's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2828.52,"endTime":2833.62,"body":"essentially a screen but you can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2828.52,"endTime":2833.62,"body":"draw digitally on it. I thought"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2833.62,"endTime":2836.71,"body":"I can't do any oxygen work"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2833.62,"endTime":2836.71,"body":"during lockdown, which is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2836.71,"endTime":2840.31,"body":"frustrating, because, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2836.71,"endTime":2840.31,"body":"my drawing board and my inks and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2840.31,"endTime":2843.37,"body":"everything are all in the studio"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2840.31,"endTime":2843.37,"body":"in town. And I thought, I'm"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2843.37,"endTime":2846.73,"body":"missing a trick here, I could"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2843.37,"endTime":2846.73,"body":"just use the storyboard software"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2847.15,"endTime":2851.2,"body":"to draw all of the oxygen panels"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2847.15,"endTime":2851.2,"body":"digitally as you can move it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2851.2,"endTime":2855.82,"body":"around, it's it's quite, it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2851.2,"endTime":2855.82,"body":"quite easy, economical in terms"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2855.82,"endTime":2859.42,"body":"of time to be able to do it. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2855.82,"endTime":2859.42,"body":"I started rattling through it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2859.42,"endTime":2863.35,"body":"during lockdown and I did the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2859.42,"endTime":2863.35,"body":"first two issues quite quickly."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2863.8,"endTime":2867.31,"body":"That was an interesting kind of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2863.8,"endTime":2867.31,"body":"merging then of storyboard"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2867.31,"endTime":2872.44,"body":"technique. And comics, which is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2867.31,"endTime":2872.44,"body":"interesting but also then the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2872.44,"endTime":2876.4,"body":"merging of all the other sort of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2872.44,"endTime":2876.4,"body":"coaching transformational"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2876.4,"endTime":2882.61,"body":"thinking content as well so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2876.4,"endTime":2882.61,"body":"yeah, oxygen is going very well"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2883.12,"endTime":2886.51,"body":"is moving head I will definitely"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2883.12,"endTime":2886.51,"body":"finish it purely because I love"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2886.51,"endTime":2891.31,"body":"the ending have come up with and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2886.51,"endTime":2891.31,"body":"I so want to draw that and get"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2891.31,"endTime":2894.55,"body":"it down and smear you know and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2891.31,"endTime":2894.55,"body":"other people to experience that."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2894.7,"endTime":2897.94,"body":"But But yeah, as it's the way"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2894.7,"endTime":2897.94,"body":"with creative you know, we're so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2897.94,"endTime":2901.54,"body":"full of ideas. I've already"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2897.94,"endTime":2901.54,"body":"thought of the next one that I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2901.54,"endTime":2905.56,"body":"want to do after that. So taking"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2901.54,"endTime":2905.56,"body":"the the format of the book and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2905.56,"endTime":2909.7,"body":"the intention of the book, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2905.56,"endTime":2909.7,"body":"kind of like genre hopping so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2909.7,"endTime":2915.07,"body":"the next one will be will be a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2909.7,"endTime":2915.07,"body":"horror book. Cool."},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":2915.61,"endTime":2917.5,"body":"How can"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":2915.61,"endTime":2917.5,"body":"people connect with you?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2918.34,"endTime":2922.72,"body":"I have a website,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2918.34,"endTime":2922.72,"body":"AndrewWildman.art or andr"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2922.75,"endTime":2925.81,"body":"wwildman.net  So there's exampl"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2922.75,"endTime":2925.81,"body":"s of some of my storyboarding"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2925.81,"endTime":2929.71,"body":"work, comic book work,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2925.81,"endTime":2929.71,"body":"nd information about horizon and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2929.71,"endTime":2933.19,"body":"information about oxygen. You"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2929.71,"endTime":2933.19,"body":"an find me on LinkedIn, and Fa"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2933.19,"endTime":2937.96,"body":"ebook."},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":2944.83,"endTime":2950.53,"body":"Thanks ever"},{"speaker":"Claire Waite Brown","startTime":2944.83,"endTime":2950.53,"body":"so much Andrew."}]}