#482 How Much Money You Should Have In Your Retirement Account (By Age)

In this episode of the Main Street Business Podcast, hosts Mark J Kohler and Mat Sorensen provide a guide to securing a sound retirement plan. They engage in a highly informative conversation, offering step-by-step strategies to help you reach your financial goals.

Here's what you can look forward to:

• An analysis of how much you should be saving based on your current age, with a clear goal of attaining a $2 million retirement fund.
• Insightful advice on how to effectively manage your savings and investments, with a clear explanation of the 4% rule and the 6% rule.
• Practical suggestions on the ideal structures for your savings, emphasizing the benefits of Individual Retirement Accounts (IRAs) and Roth accounts.
• An introduction to the concept of 'self-directing', where you get to invest in what you know best, unlocking greater returns.
• A clear exposition of the 'Rule of 72', an equation that tells you how long it takes for your money to double.
• A discussion on the importance of starting early when it comes to saving and investing, emphasizing the power of compounding interest.

This episode is a must-listen for anyone seeking to secure a robust retirement plan. It offers a wealth of knowledge on everything from saving strategies, investment structures, and understanding rates of return. Tune in and take a step closer to achieving a retirement you can truly look forward to.

• Are you ready to get certified in EVERY strategy I teach? Start your journey with a FREE 15-minute demo.
• You don't want to miss this! Secure your tickets for the most significant tax & legal event of the year: Tax and Legal 360
• Curious what my new certification is all about? Learn More
• Looking to connect with a rock star law firm? KKOS is only a click away!
• Grab my FREE Ultimate Tax Strategy Guide HERE!
• Check out our YOUTUBE Channel Here: https://www.youtube.com/markjkohler
• Craving more content? Check out my Instagram!

Transcript

Mat Sorensen: 0:00

I'm still putting in $3,500 of money every month. But if I start at 25, I'm still just doing 600 because I got ahead of the game. I got more money working for you.

Mark J Kohler: 0:08

Park your money in the S and P 500 index fund until something better comes along. And with just that simple mindset, you've unlocked the universe and your mind to see things, to see opportunities that might come up 2 million and is not.

Mat Sorensen: 0:23

The same as it is gonna be in ten years. So you still need that account to be growing a little bit to battle inflation.

Mark J Kohler: 0:30

Welcome, everybody, to another episode of the Main Street Business podcast. My name is Mark Kohler, and I'm here with the highly intelligent Matt Sorensen, and we are going to share with you the exact amount you need to have in your 401K or IRA to have a great retirement. Now, we're both tax attorneys, bestselling authors, investors, ourselves, business owners, and we're in the trenches every day with our teams. And we know exactly what you need to have that perfect retirement.

Mat Sorensen: 0:57

Now, iras and 401 ks are amazing vehicles to save for long term wealth. There's a reason people live on their IRA and 401 ks in retirement. We'll make sure you're one of them. There's tax benefits when you put the money in, you don't pay taxes. When you're growing and building that account over 10, 20, 30 years, maybe you have a company 401K where you work. The company puts free money in and matches that, and you could be doing that for decades to grow and build your wealth. Now, I know some of you are like, Matt, Mark, I'm behind, though I'm discouraged. Guys, we've got strategies. That's the purpose of today's podcast. We want to let you know where you need to be and if you're behind. How do I catch up? We're going to be going over that in today's podcast.

Mark J Kohler: 1:32

Now, the steps of this, and we're going to get right into it, is it's really a four step or a circle, a wheel, whatever you want to say, four of things that need to be happening. Number one, we've got to be contributing and saving. We're going to talk about that. And then what structure do you have or want to have or should have? Maybe it is a work, maybe it's a solar 401k in your small business, or the incredible power of the Roth structure, which could be a Roth 401K or IRA. And then we need to talk about what's the basic investment. All of you should be undertaking. We're going to turn to the amazing Warren Buffett or even Tony Robbins, who's now in that space giving us just the basic investment that's going to help get us there without having to work too hard. And then finally, the fourth piece is, if you want to go next level, build it faster, build it bigger. There's a concept called self directing, where you can invest in what you know best. Now, if you can bring all four of those things together, the contributing proper structure or structures, because you can double down on some, then the baseline investment you should have without chasing your tail. And then the next level, investing, when you get excited, you bring those four together. Holy crap, you can double the numbers we're giving.

Mat Sorensen: 2:42

All right, should we throw the number out? How much do you need to have in your IRA? Four hundred and one k. Sixty five. That's the number we're throwing on this. Okay? To have a good retirement, like a retirement you're looking forward to. Not one you're going to dread, because you're going to be. We want you to be down at Del Boca Vista. We want you to be living the dream here. All right? $2 million. That's what we're saying. Minimum of $2 million.

Mark J Kohler: 3:03

Now, why do we say that? Age 65, $2 million. Now, why do we say. There's several reasons why we say that. I'm going to go with the touchy feely first, okay? Because we want you to feel motivated here, and then we're going to get into those again. The contribution, structuring, baseline investing and self directing is strategies. But quickly, many of you are going to say, hold it, I need more than 2 million. I've done the math. I have a lifestyle I want to live. I get it. Some of you live in a different part of the country. 2 million would not be enough for some of you. Like, holy crap, every analysis I've done, I don't need 2 million. We get it. There's different ages, lifestyles, parts of the country, goals. You have, we get it. But when you have at least 2 million, you have something to fall back on. By then, Social Security is going to be kicking in. Maybe you have equity in your home, maybe you have some rental properties. But the point is you've got 2 million to feel relief. You're not going to be as stressed. You're going to feel more freedom, to do more things, to build more money at that age rather than be in DEfcon three. And Matt, we meet so many people that don't even have $100,000 in savings at age 65. And it is scary.

Mat Sorensen: 4:07

Yeah. And you know what? One of the biggest culprits is small business owners. They just don't put money in an IRA or 401K. They don't live in corporate America where ones right there laid up for them and they reinvest their money in their business. And so for many of you we've got some strategies because I know many of you are in that bucket. We've got some strategies to supercharge how much you can get in and save for retirement. But let me go the analytical side. You did the touchy feely side.

Mark J Kohler: 4:28

I'm a touchy feely.

Mat Sorensen: 4:29

This is more the Matt and mark sauce. I'm going to be the more analytical here. Okay. There's something called the 4% rule I want to make sure I understand there's a 4% rule a lot of financial advisors follow that basically says plan on living off 4% of whatever money is in your IRA or four hundred and one k. So if you got $2 million you can live on 4% of that. 4% of 2 million is 80 grand annually.

Mark J Kohler: 4:48

And that's where the 2 million stays.

Mat Sorensen: 4:50

There. The 2 million stays. We're not depleting it. Now as you get into your late seventy s, eighty s, ninety s. That 2 million you can start depleting. You can start accelerating that. Maybe you got long term care. You're in a nursing home.

Mark J Kohler: 5:02

I was thinking Royal Caribbean cruise, holiday cruise.

Mat Sorensen: 5:06

I think that's celebrity cruise. Is that a crowd?

Mark J Kohler: 5:08

That's royal cruise. Then we can dive into that.

Mat Sorensen: 5:11

Okay.

Mark J Kohler: 5:11

All right.

Mat Sorensen: 5:12

Okay. Well, let me hit the 4% rule because here's what else is happening. We want to assume you can at least get 6% return. I'm just saying this is the typical financial advisor advice. I'm going to give you my perspective here. At 6%. If I'm taking 4%, I'm still growing that account, 2%. And why do I need to do that? Inflation we felt at this last year, 2 million is not the same as it is going to be in ten years. So you still need that account to be growing a little bit to battle inflation. Now, I like the 6% rule because I think you can get 8%. We're going to be talking about what you can invest in as kind of a default investment, let's say at the s and P 500 fund making 8% here. We're going to get into that. But then I could be living off 6% of that. So now that 2 million, I'm getting 6% I can take out. I still got a little 2%. Help them to grow it, combat inflation. Now I'm getting 120 grand a year I can live off of. And like you said, mark, Social Security is going to start kicking in. Maybe that's another few thousand bucks a month. Now you're at 15 grand a month. Maybe you have paid off your home and there's some equity in it, but you don't have a housing payment either. But you've got equity you can maybe draw on, too. Everyone's in a different boat and situation. Maybe you sold your business, you got the compartments, every situation. But that's the analytical piece of it. I like to think of the 6% rule, not the 4%. Okay.

Mark J Kohler: 6:21

And I'm going to just say on the 4%, what I like about it too is it's going to typically take into account taxes because at 4% of that 2 million, you're going to have a rate of return, you're going to pull some cash out and you're going to pay taxes and then 4%. So on $2 million, that means you're living on 80,000 a year after taxes, before anything else, and 80,000 a year you'll survive. We have clients that can't even get that type of income at that age and they're freaking out. Okay, so now what are the contribution amounts? We've got this. You're going to love these calculations. I'll do the first one of what you should be putting in to get to 2 million at these ages, assuming you're a zero, then you can say where you should be. Maybe you can do that. Okay, so first chart. Here's the chart. How much should I be saving to have a $2 million retirement at age 65? Now we're talking about in a 401K or IRA. We're not talking about any other investments, just in those vehicles that tax deferred or tax free structure. 2 million. If I'm age 25, starting at zero, that is 600 a month. That's not too bad. I can do 600 a month. And at age 35, it's 1400 a month. So if I'm starting at zero at age 35, I'm going to need to be putting away one 4000 hundred dollars a month. That could be a pretty nice car payment. So you got to start thinking like that. Age 45, starting at zero. If you're age 45 watching this and you've got zero, you need to be putting away 3500 a month. Now that's a house payment of rent.

Mat Sorensen: 7:49

Yeah, that's 42 grand a year. That adds up.

Mark J Kohler: 7:53

Adds up. And so now you're doing a side hustle to make 3500 to just fund your retirement. But you're dedicated, you're determined, because in 20 years, you're going to be 65 and you want that two mil. So 3500 a month at age 45. If you're age 55, staring down that barrel with a zero in your IRA or 401K, maybe you depleted it. Pay for your kids college. Different topic that we're at eleven k a month, 11,000 a month, 132,000 a year. We know people that are in business at age 55 just taking their profits to build retirement. So they're in that boat. So that's 11,000 a month going into retirement. Now, we're using some very complex structures because we want it still tax deferred or tax free. But 600 a month, 1400 a month, 3500 a month, or 11,000 a month, depending on those four. Age starts at zero.

Mat Sorensen: 8:43

Yeah. And we're assuming an 8% annual rate of return. The reason we're throwing in that is because you can just do the boring s and P 500.

Mark J Kohler: 8:49

That's the big reveal on our next point.

Mat Sorensen: 8:51

Yeah. Say that, because how do these numbers add up? How does it add up?

Mark J Kohler: 8:55

That's true.

Mat Sorensen: 8:55

We got to finish the equation here. Big reveal is the S and P 500. Hello.

Mark J Kohler: 9:05

Yeah, buckle up. Hold on your butts.

Mat Sorensen: 9:07

But sometimes boring is okay.

Mark J Kohler: 9:10

Day, guys.

Mat Sorensen: 9:10

Sometimes boring is okay. And so many people are thinking, well, I got to find the next Uber. I got to go self direct and find the next home run and real estate investment deal or whatever I'm doing with a self directed IRA or 401K.

Mark J Kohler: 9:20

Guys, we love that.

Mat Sorensen: 9:21

We want you to do that. That is a way to supercharge and accelerate your account. But don't get stuck waiting for that and do nothing. Start saving and contributing on these numbers like Mark said. And if you're doing it, we're assuming you can at least get 8% by doing the S and P 500 fund. The numbers track out on that. That's even what Warren Buffett says to you. Like Mark mentioned, Tony Robbins, Peter Maluk, they're like, if you don't know, do the SP 500. Just buy spy or one of those funds that's tracking that, and you can get an 8% annual return. Now, this is over time. Of course, not every year. It can go up and down a little bit. All right, now, here's the difficult part when you look into these numbers, because if you're at 25, it's nice that I'm only doing 600 a month, $7200 a year. Right. And when I'm 35, I'll be at 110k. When I'm 45, I'll be at 350k. When I'm 55, I'll be at 894,000. And I'm going to be at 2.1 million at 65. Yeah.

Mark J Kohler: 10:13

And let me repeat, say that a different way. If you already started saving at age 25 and doing approximately 600 a month, you should be at 110. If you're 35 right now, you should be at 350. If you're 45 years old and can continue to be doing what you've been doing, that's 600 a month, and you will then be at 845,000 at age 55, assuming you followed those saving models. Now, if you're at age 35 and started from zero, where should you be at 45?

Mat Sorensen: 10:42

Yeah, if I'm at age 35, at 45, I'm going to be at 256,000. And if I'm 45, at 55, I'm going to be at. Remember here at 45, I'm still putting in $3,500 of money every month. But if I start at 25, I'm still just doing 600 because I got ahead of the game. I got more money working for you. I think Dave Ramsay calls this the 8th wonder of the world. Compounding interest. The more money you have invested. Now, your money that made money is making money on the money that made money for you ten years ago. And it just keeps building. And you have all this compounding urge. That's why you're getting less dollars in to get to the same result. So if you're waiting too long, that's why when you're 55, you got to put eleven k in. You only got ten years of compounding investment growth as opposed to 40. So the first principle and lesson, and this, everybody hears it, of course, and start early. When's the best time to plant a tree?

Mark J Kohler: 11:33

Yesterday.

Mat Sorensen: 11:34

When's the second best time? Today.

Mark J Kohler: 11:36

Now, if that was a lot of garbage goop, let me just. It was great. But we want to restate it in even a more simpler way. You should, at age 55, have between 600 and $850,000 in your IRA, 401K. We don't know what you've been saving, what you have with the method and all that. You should be in that $700,000 range or more at age 55. So we got to get caught up to that. And you can look at these tables. If you're 45 right now and you have been doing some savings, you should really be in the $250 to $350,000 level. That's what you want to be thinking. If you're under 350,000 in savings in your IRA and you're 45 years old, this is your wake up call. Let's get back on track. And it doesn't take a lot. At age 55, you should have around that seven to 800 grand. And if you're below that, we've got to have it a more serious time.

Mat Sorensen: 12:33

Yeah. One rule that's really important to know is the rule of 72. This is an equation you can input to tell you how long it takes for your money to double. So, for example, at an 8% return, you divide 72. By eight, we get nine years. So if I don't put any new money in at an 8% annual rate of return every nine years, my money is going to double. So if I am sitting at 500k in my account, let's say, and I'm 45, five, in nine years, I'm going to have a million bucks. So at age 54, I'm going to have a million bucks. If I stay on that and that million bucks again, I'm not putting any new money in. I'm just. The money's growing and compounding. I'm going to be at 2 million at age 63. So another good metric when you're thinking about, well, where am I at right now? How's my money going to be in the next nine to ten years? Think of the rule of 72. At 8%, it's going to be doubling every nine years.

Mark J Kohler: 13:17

All right, now, that's how much you should be putting away, or should have. Now, let's get into a little more strategy here. Where are you putting that money? Well, again, lots of options. Now, I'll give you my take. Throughout yours, my take is the baseline, is that you should at least be funding your own individual IRA, and preferably a Roth. Then we come to the work, or your 401k in your small business. But every year, and Matt really taught me this, the friend and brother he is to me is like, mark, you just got to do it every year. You just got to fund your Roth every year. And as soon as you can, at the beginning of the year, don't wait till December, April 15, get that money in your Roth Ira, working for you as fast as possible. And by the way, everybody, no matter what age and however much money you're making, you can always have a Roth. A backdoor Roth 401K is a very common and surprisingly unwell known strategy. I was talking to a financial advisor the other day that said, yeah, I wish more of my wealthy clients could do a roth. I'm like, where did you go to school? Holy crap. So anyway, the point is everybody should at least have an IRA or a Roth. And funding that every year, that's where it all starts. That's just the basic that we can all get our head around. I love the apps that help you do that. Whether it's even your Schwab app, your acorns app, or Robin Hood app, they will help you do those auto deposits. And just out of sight, out of mind. But if you can compound that or double down now we start playing with the 401K.

Mat Sorensen: 14:44

Yeah. Wow. You were disappointed that the financial advisors didn't learn the backdoor Roth strategy in school.

Mark J Kohler: 14:49

Well, sorry, where did you get your training, at your financial advisory channel?

Mat Sorensen: 14:53

Are you watching? Not this one. Okay. The backdoor Roth is out there. Everybody should know that. We've got some other videos on that. Anyways, we can get on a tangent there, but here's what I think is important, too. I wanted to just on strategy, too, if you have a day job, one of the things we always like to teach, and this is kind of a mark, one I like, is the matching out. I like at least be throwing that six k or seven k now, sorry, in your Roth or traditional IRA. But if you do have a day job where they offer a match, where they're giving you free money, incentivizing you, if you put money in, we'll match it. That could be thousands of dollars every year in free money that you.

Mark J Kohler: 15:27

What's the rate of return on that match?

Mat Sorensen: 15:28

Is it 100% day one? Man, I wish I could get 100% rate of return. I just can't find a good investor. Well, contribute to your 401k. Get the damn match already. Okay. And so we like that matching out. Now, the reason we say matching out is put in as much money as you need to in the get the full match. A lot of companies you kind of like, at a certain point, they're like, that's enough. We're not putting any more match in.

Mark J Kohler: 15:51

There's two percenting, 3%, 5%.

Mat Sorensen: 15:53

You guys get the match and then get out. And then make sure you've maxed out your Roth irA. Maybe your spouse's account's maxed out. Maybe you've got an HSA that you're saving. Because, guys, remember that HSA can be in the equation here with your iras and 401 ks, because one is the biggest expense you're going to have in retirement medical. And it'd be nice to be able to lean on that at HSA. So all these little buckets of money we can put dollars into, then come back to the throw more money in. You're not getting a match, but I'm getting that tax deferred if I'm doing traditional, or that tax free growth, if I'm doing Roth in this tax deferred bucket again, or tax preferred bucket, I should say for long term wealth building.

Mark J Kohler: 16:28

And I'm just going to summarize the strategy of structure with this. There are multiple structures that can be used in conjunction with one another at different times in your life. Maybe you're having a good year. Grandma left you inheritance, you sold a fix and flip. You had a rental property that you cashed in on. Those are the years to not go blow a bunch of money on, take a year off and live in Costa Rica, or go on a worldwide cruise. That's the year where you're like, okay, I'm going to double down. I'm going to really throw down. Because if you can get the matching, use a combination of the HSA. Ira roth la. All of a sudden, these estimates we've given you've blown them out of the water and you're ahead of the curve. And this is what the wealthy do. So be open to learning those structures. This is why listening to our podcast and all the information we throw out there, so much of it for free. Please continue your learning. At the end of this video, we're going to give you some additional videos to expand on that. Now, the next one was, what's your default investment? So you found your structure or structures, you know how much to put in? Well, we've already hit it. The default is everywhere you go. Click s and P 500 index fund, whether it's an ETF mutual fund, just keep it simple. Why, Matt?

Mat Sorensen: 17:34

Yeah, and we're not financial advisors, but guys, this is the standard advice out there. And there's a reason it's the standard advice. This is the 500 biggest companies in America, and it's just been tracked for decades. And when some people get into analysis, paralysis, or they go pick individual stocks, and you could have picked the one that's the winner, you could have picked the loser. And so a lot of people have gravitated that when you don't know or you don't have anything better, go to the default s and P 500. I mean, I'm just saying, even myself, when I'm in between other investments and stuff with any of my retirement account dollars and non retirement account dollars. That's where I'm at. So I just believe in it because I want that money working and growing. You can pull it up and see the history of it and how 8% is totally achievable in the s and P 500.

Mark J Kohler: 18:15

I love it. All right, now, the last piece of this, in this kind of four part, bring it all together equation for success is next level. And this is what gets really exciting. Because once you get your feet under you're learning and it's exciting. You kind of get some wind behind your sales. You're saving. You're like, holy crap. And you see opportunities start to arise. Oh, I could do a trustee note over here for this little real estate project. I could buy into an oil and gas thing. I could maybe buy some crypto. I could maybe go do some precious metal. You see an opportunity that's unique to your space or your world. Guess what? Your retirement account can invest in it. And this is where we see clients now getting 1012 15% rates of return or more. It's the concept of called self directing. And it's the last piece in the equation that our successful clients use, as we do too, to really break out of that s and P 500 at 8% and double it. Now, your numbers even go more off the chart once you learn that concept. So, Matt, you kind of believe in self directing, right?

Mat Sorensen: 19:18

I mean, I wrote a freaking book about it. Self directed Ira Handbook. Mark and I co founded directed Ira directed trust Company, fastest growing self directed Ira Company, Inc. 5000 award winner, 1.6 billion in assets. And so worldwide, clients do this every day in their IRA or 401 ks. And yes, you can buy real estate. You could invest in a small business, a private fund, do some private money lending with your own IRA or four hundred and one k dollars. You don't just have to buy the S and P 500. Now buy the S and P 500. We want to get started. We want you to save. And for some of you, that may be where you stop. But there's more. You do have options, particularly entrepreneurial. Yeah, the entrepreneurial investor, maybe you're a real estate investor, a small business owner. A lot of them love to self direct. They get more control of it and they can get a better return. Now, here's why a better return really matters. If I can get 12% in my self directed account, which we see very often, I get into mine. You can see it very often right now. My money now doubles I'm just doing the rule of 72 every six years at 12% rather than every nine, and so every six years rather than nine at an 8% rate of return. So now I'm getting that compounding. You think how that is over investing or 2030 years of a retirement account, that is just huge. Because what we want to do is we want our money to work harder for us. We don't want to work harder. And so if I can get a better return on my investments without taking on more risk, you got to be careful there. Of course, we're going to accelerate and have a bigger retirement account. And so we just want to let you know that you don't just have to think of the stock market. You may be a stock market wizard and be like, I can get 12% in the stock market because I can do that fine. Okay, maybe. But there's other alternatives. Wall street is not telling you about it. It's called self directing. We have a whole podcast, a sister podcast called the Director I podcast just about that.

Mark J Kohler: 20:55

Yeah. And I think another way of saying what just Matt said in a simple way, is park your money in the S and P 500 index fund until something better comes along. And with just that simple mindset, you've unlocked the universe and your mind to see things, to see opportunities that might come up and know, ooh, my retirement count could do that. All right, well, thanks, everybody, for listening today. Such powerful information. We hope it's impacted you in a major way. And I just want to share another video with you. We have multiple videos and podcasts, hundreds of them. But one in particular I think is important. I'm going to share one. Matt, you can share one. The business owners. For small business owners, there's 401K called the solo four hundred and one k, and you may have a work and a side hustle. 40 million Americans have a side hustle. You can have 2401 ks. Let's throw down another one inside your own side hustle. It's called the solo. Four hundred and one k. I want you to click down below right here. Check out that video. If you have a side hustle, you have got to watch it because I don't want you living on your side hustle. I want you to use your side hustle to get out of debt, and then I want you to use your side hustle to plow away money for the future so. So you can live the retirement of your dreams. Yeah.

Mat Sorensen: 22:08

And I love that one because that is the perfect avenue for someone who needs to catch up, because you could put $69,000 a year in a solo 401K. We're not just talking about 6000 in your IRA, or 7000 if you're 50 or more. We're not just talking about your day job where you might be able to get your 22, five in a little bit of match. We're talking 69 grand. And so the solo k is awesome. We've helped many clients, thousands of clients, set those up and use them to build for retirement. Now, the one I want to recommend is about Roth accounts. Mark and I have done so many videos about Roth. We're believers in Roth. When you get to retirement accounts, whether this is iras or 401 ks, there's two flavors. There's traditional and there's Roth. And there's a little swirl, too, where you can have some traditional and roth together.

Mark J Kohler: 22:49

It's called smoothie twist.

Mat Sorensen: 22:50

The twist, yeah.

Mark J Kohler: 22:51

Is that dairy queen where you can get the chocolate and vanilla twist. I love that.

Mat Sorensen: 22:54

That's basically where they came up with the idea. But it's for retirement. It's called Roth and traditional. Okay, but the reason I want to talk about Roth is for the disciplined investor that doesn't like taxes. If you're like, I'm disciplined.

Mark J Kohler: 23:07

I don't want to love.

Mat Sorensen: 23:09

No, no. You'd be surprised how many people don't. You'd be surprised. So, on the Roth side, what happens when you put your money in it? You don't get a deduction. When you put your money in a traditional IRA or four hundred and one k, you get a tax deduction. Now, not only am I building this money for long term retirement, I'm not paying taxes at growth, but I got a tax deduction today, and I love that. But the downside on a traditional is I'm pulling the money out of retirement. I am paying tax. Now, maybe you sold your business or your day job's gone, and you're in a lower tax bracket in retirement, and that doesn't hit you that hard. But there is taxes on the way out of your traditional IRA or 401K. But the Roth is freaking awesome. I put my money in, I do not get a tax deduction. That's. That's the downside. But the plus is that money grows. I don't pay taxes as I'm growing it, and I don't pay taxes when I pull the money out of retirement. So if I'm really good at investing that, and this is where a lot of our self directed investors that are getting better in the 8%, really like the Roth, because they're compounding more and more money. They're like, I'll bypass on the deduction on the way in if I can triple this amount of money. So it's triple what I put in on the way out. And I'm paying no taxes on the way out. This is like a little tax free money making machine. And so we've got a lot of videos on that. Click this one to learn more about the Roth accounts and why you should be saving in a Roth.

Mark J Kohler: 24:17

Well, Matt, I love the.

Mat Sorensen: 24:20

Yeah, Roth and roll.

Mark J Kohler: 24:21

Kid Roth. Kid Roth. I mean, same thing. They both rock. All right, everybody, thank you for being here. We're going to be here again every week, trying to help you better live your american dream. Build wealth, save taxes, protect your assets from those dirty, rotten lawyers out there. That's not us. We're the tax lawyers. We love you. We're lovers, not fighters. See you next week. And keep working on your dream. Don't give up.