#484 How to Build a Passive Income Empire (3 Step Formula)

In this episode of the Main Street Business Podcast, hosts Mark J Kohler and Mat Sorensen share their insights on building a passive income empire. They lay out a three-step formula, backed by their years of experience as tax attorneys, to help you achieve financial freedom.

Here's what you can expect:

• A discussion on the importance of having a side hustle or small business, emphasizing its role as a revenue-generating asset that can fuel your future investments.
• Practical advice on investing in real estate, offering a range of options from single-family homes to commercial properties, and emphasizing its role as a wealth-building asset in America.
• An explanation of the role of retirement accounts in wealth accumulation. They debunk misconceptions around retirement accounts and highlight the benefits of self-directing your investments.
• Real-life examples of how clients have used these strategies to build wealth and secure a comfortable retirement.
• A valuable perspective on the commitment and discipline required in wealth building, encouraging listeners to view wealth as a decision rather than a destiny.

Whether you're starting your journey towards financial independence or looking for ways to optimize your current strategy, this episode is packed with valuable insights and practical advice. Tune in to learn how to structure and methodize your investments for optimal growth and a worry-free retirement.

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Transcript

Mat Sorensen: 0:43

I'm just telling you people that have real wealth, that are enjoying retirement, not working, that really have passive income, there is no other way than those three things. There's just not. It's one of those three. They've done one of those three.

Mark J Kohler: 0:58

Welcome back, everybody, to the main Street Business podcast with yours truly, Mark Kohler in the illustrious Matt Sorensen. We are going to show you the three step formula to build a passive income empire. And if you follow these three steps, it's almost inevitable that you will reach that goal and it will change your life. We are best selling authors, tax attorneys, and partners in a law firm that's been helping clients for the last 20 years build these passive income empires. We know exactly what it takes and we're going to share these secrets with you.

Mat Sorensen: 1:28

Now, there's a ton of misinformation on this topic. Shocker, I know, but there's so much bs out there about how to build passive income. But we're going to give you the real strategies real people are using to build real wealth in a passive way where your money's working for you. You're not always working for you.

Mark J Kohler: 1:45

Our goal is not to tell you exactly what to invest in. We got clients investing in all sorts of things to create passive income, but it's the structure and the methodology in which they do it, and no one talks about that because it's not sexy and fun. They want to talk about, oh, invest in this. Oh, I did a forex on this. Buy this, buy that. But no one's breaking it down in almost a step by step formula.

Mat Sorensen: 2:08

Now, our opinions on this have been informed by 10,000 plus hours of consulting clients and figuring out what they've done, whether it's helping a client with an estate plan and seeing how did they build their wealth and having those conversations. We've heard the stories and seen it on paper, on the balance sheet about how they've truly built passive wealth and income. That's how our opinion has been informed on this. Real people, real experiences. And we found three ways.

Mark J Kohler: 2:33

Three ways. And by the way, it's been ugly. We see clients killing it, succeeding, and other clients train wrecks and failing. And what's kind of funny is sometimes, is we see these situations like, oh my gosh, they're going to make millions. What a great idea. They don't. And then over here, we're like, good luck with that one. And they kill it. You just don't know. But there has been common themes, common threads, and of those, there's three number one is having a side hustle or a small business, maybe a large business, but something where there's no glass ceiling. They can control that income. They can build that income. We're going to talk about that. Number one, the side hustle or a small business. Number two, and you may say, well, that's not passive income. Oh, we'll explain why. It's.

Mat Sorensen: 3:17

You get there. You get there.

Mark J Kohler: 3:18

You get there. Well, how you get there? Number two, we're going to talk about real estate. Wealth in America is built on real estate. And number three, that enigma, the retirement account. That doesn't mean Wall street means a structure. Could be a Roth IRa, roth 401k. We're going to break that down. So side hustle, real estate and a retirement account.

Mat Sorensen: 3:36

I'm just telling you, people that have real wealth, that are enjoying retirement, not working, that really have passive income, there is no other way than those three things. There's just not. It's one of those three. They've done one of those three. Sometimes they've done a combination.

Mark J Kohler: 3:50

You could inherit it.

Mat Sorensen: 3:51

You could inherit it. You could marry it. Yeah, that's another one.

Mark J Kohler: 3:54

Or lottery.

Mat Sorensen: 3:55

Yeah, Anna Nicole. But that's work. That's a job, too. That's the ultimate side hustle. All right, let me start with number one. When we say side hustle, that's just the gateway drug. I'm not saying have a side hustle forever. Maybe that's what you're going to do, but that's not going to be passive income. If you just have a side hustle forever. Maybe it's a passion or something you do on the side to get extra income. That will never be passive, but that side hustle can turn into a small business. That small business turns into a large business. And now you have a machine, you've scaled it, you have people. You can kind of be chairman of the board. And this is how people that have built businesses truly have passive income. They've built it to a point where now the business continues to operate without them being there every day, because small businesses primarily rely on the small business owner being there. The side hustle is all about you putting in your time and work to gain some extra income. It's not passive people that say, we'll go start a business, it's passive income. At some point it can be, but not immediately. But we've seen this as we see clients who have had that business, that have grown it and scaled it, that have built a team where they can come back and be like, I'm just chairman of the board.

Mark J Kohler: 5:03

Well, never in the history of our country, the world, have we been able to create passive income from the basement in our house. Online. We've got clients that make millions every year, and they have one employee because they've crafted this online business of some sort that does fulfillment or affiliate marketing or this, that and another. And so you have to keep in mind that there's a lot of creative ways to create that business model where you don't have to be there every day. But to be honest, that's not my reason for number one. Yeah, that's a good one. You might be able to scale a business in the long run and create passive income watching it run itself. But really, what I like number one, being that small business side hustle is that extra income is not what you're going to live on. That's going to be the gas or the fuel to build the passive income in the future. You got to have something to ignite that fire, like get something to feed it. It's almost like this gas line going into that pilot light. You've got to have that money coming in from somewhere. So I like the side hustle or small business to get out of debt initially, you might be using that side business to just get out of student debt or get out of some massive debt problem from the past. So we use that income for that, and then we don't turn around and start living a nicer lifestyle. Our truly wealthy clients know that little goose laying golden eggs is there to build a nest of more golden eggs, not to go sell it at the market and buy a BMW. It's to go build this nest of little golden eggs.

Mat Sorensen: 6:30

The small business, the side hustle, the largest, whatever it is, that is an asset in of itself. I want to come back to that. But the cash flow coming off of that and the income can be used to buy real estate income recently to max out retirement accounts. Number two and three. And so number one can help feed number two and three, which you're going to get here in a moment. But I want to talk about another couple of things about a small business and why I love it. That is an asset in and of itself. If that business generates cash flow, that is something you can sell. So you can then sell that business and generate a stream of income from the sell of the business. A new owner comes and takes over and buys it from you, and you could get a large profit. You might get three to five times the net income selling a small business. So if the business is making 200 grand a year in net income, you might get three to five times that. You could make 600 to a million dollars in just selling that business. Now it's truly passive because you sold the business just today. This afternoon I have a call with a client buying a UPS store. She's been buying multiple UPS store locations. Now on the other end of this is a seller selling it, getting out of the business. They built it up and they want to sell it and it's going to create a stream of income to them that is now truly passive. So sometimes the business is an asset in and of itself at the point you want to step away from it and just have the passive stuff where you're not working every day.

Mark J Kohler: 7:44

Love it. I want to give a couple of examples. I was going to give an example and I love your ups. One, I've got two. Quickly think of a realtor. A realtor has got to put in the grind every week. 2040, 50, 60 hours depending on the season and what they're doing with showings. They're working hard for that 1099. Now a next level realtor gets their brokerage license, which takes two or three years in most states, and then they add property management. And I've had so many realtor brokers that catch the vision of this, say, okay, I'm going to pick up some doors. Yeah, it's a pain in the butt, but I can hire a handyman, I can hire someone here, and I can start building a portfolio of property management doors. Once they get to 100 doors. I've seen so many realtor brokers either take the cash flow from that, fund their retirement accounts, or buy rental property that they see out on the street. So they've taken that side hustle, which would be property management attached to their main hustle and then dedicated that income to buying more real estate, funding their retirement account. And once they get to 100 doors, they can also sell it. And then two years later, after an incompetent, they start another one. I've had so many clients do that, and you could think about restaurants, starting some frozen food and selling online. There's all sorts of maybe side hustles to your main hustle that could generate income dedicated to the future.

Mat Sorensen: 8:58

Yeah, but this isn't get rich quick. And I want to make server stands that this is not something you're going to turn on the switch tomorrow and be like, oh, I found the secret. I have passive income tomorrow. No, you got to go work for it. You got to invest a little bit of time. Sorry, a little bit of money, but a lot of time, but over a long term horizon, it is totally possible. Like we've said at the very beginning of this is the reality of how people have true passive income. If you're like, I don't want to work nine to five every day for the rest of my life, okay, going to have to get out of that. You're going to have to transition and get through it. You're going to have to pick up the side hustle. You're going to have to be disciplined in saving. You're going to have to figure out how to pick up real estate properties and learn the strategies. And so it takes some work. I just want to say that. But it's within your grasp, I like to say. It's not like people like, oh, wealth is my destiny. No, it's not. It's your decision. You have to decide to be wealthy and then commit to it. And that's what passive income is about. It's going to take some work and some commitment.

Mark J Kohler: 9:50

Can I make a meme of that?

Mat Sorensen: 9:51

Yes, it's on my website. I threw that little quote there. I thought I.

Mark J Kohler: 9:54

Damn it.

Mat Sorensen: 9:54

Here, I've already trademarked it. You can use it. Just make sure you mention you've been authorized with the express written consent of Matt Sorensen and major league baseball.

Mark J Kohler: 10:06

All right, now, number two, real estate. First of all, some of you've already caught the vision. You're like freaking a. I love investing in passive income producing real estate, but whoa, whoa. Some of you are like, whoa, that's a bridge too far. I don't want to be a property manager. I don't understand real estate. I get it, but I'm just going to do it other ways, okay? That's who I'm talking to right here. Hold on for a moment. Hold the phone. Don't pass judgment. Let me make a few points first. Real estate can come in a lot of different flavors. It could be single family home rentals that a lot of us just go to and, oh, someone's going to call me and I got to plunge a toilet. Actually, it could be multifamily, it could be fourplexes, sixplexes, eight plexes where you have property management in place. It could be commercial properties, strip malls, commercial buildings, dental offices, doctor's offices, restaurants. It could be industrial. It could be storage units, warehouses that don't even have people sitting in them all day long or sleeping in. You may want to look at raw land leases or leases that involve property that involve billboards or signage or cell towers or passive income. Again, that's attached to real estate. There are so many varieties and flavors here. So just don't go think, oh my gosh, I don't want a college party rental house. That's not what we're saying. Some, that could be a great fit because it fits your style and where you live. Others, it could be the worst decision you ever made.

Mat Sorensen: 11:25

A lot of people feel like, well, I have bad credit. I don't have enough income yet where I'd qualify for a mortgage to buy a rental.

Mark J Kohler: 11:31

Okay, there's step one.

Mat Sorensen: 11:32

Yeah, let's go back to step one. I love that, too. But also there's a lot of creative strategies to acquiring real estate, buying properties subject to. Maybe you need to get into some wholesaling at first and learn the real estate investment strategies of wholesaling. There's so many big real estate investors that have started wholesaling where they're basically getting properties under contract at a deal. They learn how to find properties and then they go sell them to other investors that want to acquire them to buy and hold. And so there's different entry points on how to learn this. Now, again, this is like what we talked about, buying a business. It takes time and some commitment. This is not passive at first, you got to work for it. But once you get that knowledge, and I frankly, I think like wholesaling or leading creative finance strategies are a great way to enter the market, you start learning what real estate is. You start learning what's a good deal, what's a bad deal, how to negotiate, and then how to manage properties and people and contractors. And maybe you flip some houses. I mean, there's a lot to learn there, especially for people who are new to real estate that are just like, I'm just going to go buy some single family rentals maybe. Okay, that's a great strategy. Maybe it's short term. There's so much there. That's what I'm saying. But don't be discouraged because you think I don't have the credit or I don't have the income. There are so many real estate investors. We talk to them. Our lawyers are talking to at least one of them every hour. I'm not kidding. That is using creative strategies to acquire the real estate. Even if they have the money to buy the properties, even if they have an 800 credit score, they're using creative strategies to acquire their properties.

Mark J Kohler: 12:56

Now let's also keep in mind here that when you say, hey, I don't have these assets to go buy or the liquidity or the credit. I'm not kidding. That's why you go back to step one, because you've got to have the fuel to start the fire. I can't go out and just make fire happen on a raw piece of ground. I've got to go get the wood. I've got to go build this thing. And so step one is giving you that cash flow to start funding real estate as well. Do you know how many people call us up and go, where should I put my money? Real estate? Well, I mean, other places. Real estate, because even when we get to retirement accounts, we are going to talk about different investments. But now I want to put it in context. Last .4 different areas that you could invest in real estate as well. A self rental, maybe you have a business where you're already renting from someone else. Be your own landlord. That's one of the first best rental properties to buy, is if you're paying rent to someone else, figure out how to replace that person. Number two is you've got the long term rental, which we've already alluded to, the single family home or even multifamily. Number three is the short term rental. There's loopholes for that. Some people are into the Airbnb, the bed and breakfast, the Vrbo and I could do short term or even mid term rentals that are kind of a furnished type scenario where you might get different cash flow based on where you live, and it's something that might speak to you. Number four is syndications, and you're going to get pitched, hey, we'll come into our fund where we take all the work away. You don't have to do that. You can get in these bigger deals, be a part of something better, and the syndication is going to go do real estate. They have their own pros and cons, too. You may not get the five to 1020 or more percent return, but you also don't have to have as be as hands on and you are creating passive income. So there's different types of real estate.

Mat Sorensen: 14:40

Yeah. And I think there's even some simple methods. I mean, there's the burr method where you're basically buying a residence for yourself, but then you'rehabbing it and renting it out. I love just never selling your primary residence when you move, don't sell it. And I think a lot of clients over a ten or 20 year period might be in three or four different homes. And I've looked, I mean, I personally made over a million dollars doing just that strategy, not selling my personal residence, moving into the next home and turning it into a rental property. And I think there's just some low hanging fruit there, guys, that could be passive ways to build wealth by just making some strategic financial decisions. Just when you're moving to a new house, don't sell the existing one. If you don't have to hold it's an asset. If you can break even on it, you're going to pay down the debt, it's going to appreciate over time, and it's going to add this passive income as the rents start to increase, you're covering your expenses, and of course, you have an appreciating asset.

Mark J Kohler: 15:31

Well, and I'm just going to throw this out too. I interviewed a special guest, Dolph de Rus, just a couple of days ago, and he said why he liked real estate as the number one investment class for anybody. And the first one was leverage. He goes, leverage is unique to real estate. You can go buy $100,000 worth of stock, okay. Or a bond or some sort of paper product. 100 grand. You own $100,000 of crypto. That's great. Well, I can go out and with that same 100,000 with 20% down, maybe buy a $500,000 property, and I can use that leverage to create a better bottom line return on my investment of my 100 grand. So leverage is unique. And number two, what I talked about, he had three or four, which I loved. But I'll just mention the second one is it's one asset you can add value to and in unique and affordable ways. For example, if I buy $100,000 of stock or crypto, can I do anything to increase the value? Well, I guess I could go shop at Walmart, if I bought Walmart stock, but I don't think I'm going to move the needle. Right.

Mat Sorensen: 16:31

Okay.

Mark J Kohler: 16:32

But with real estate, I can go in. And one of his little techniques, what's so funny is he said, for 49 cent, I've increased a property $10,000 and he'll go in and just put in new light bulbs and go from 40 watt to 110 watt. The house looks brighter, looks happier. He has a book, 101 ways to improve the value of a property or increase the value in just small ways. That's a unique asset. I can't go increase the value of paper, but I can take real estate and increase the value in little ways. So again, this is what wealthy people do. So if we've shared something here that resonates with you, I hope. But if you're like, oh, I wish I was rich, how do those rich people get rich? They're doing this.

Mat Sorensen: 17:09

Yeah. The secret is there is no secret. That's the secret, guys, that the wealthy have, it's out there. It's right in front of your face. It's business ownership. The businesses you're going into and being a customer every day, they're just on the other side of it, serving you. It's the real estate out there that you're driving by on the freeway, on the street every day. And it's these next the retirement accounts, which doesn't sound sexy. It doesn't sound like some hidden gem. It's staring us right in the face. But I'm just telling you, when we're looking at clients with their estate plan and they're planning on who's going to get all of their assets they've worked for and accumulate over the time, this is where there's a big chunk of them. They're putting their money over here. They're saving it for the long haul, and they're doing it in a tax efficient way. See, that's the cool thing about this third one here, is investing and putting that money aside in retirement accounts is I get some extra tax perks. The money I'm making is going longer. I'm building more wealth because I'm getting all these tax incentives by either getting a deduction when I put it in on traditional accounts, or I get the tax free growth of a roth. Either way, that's more money in my pocket and less to the IRS. Because let's be honest, if you're over here with the business that's having some success and you're making some money, and you'll get there. If you work hard at it, you can get there, but you're going to have to pay the IRS some money. And if we can minimize that, this is going to accelerate your wealth building. That's why we love the retirement accounts. Not only is it a way to build money for the long haul, you got to make some good investments with it, but there's all these tax benefits to getting the money in there.

Mark J Kohler: 18:38

Yeah, I've got a fun metaphor I want to throw down here in a moment on this comparison of the two doing it inside a retirement account or not. But let's just unpack this a little bit for those of you that think, well, I don't want a retirement account. I hate Wall street. Oh, my word, you are in for a little treat here. Please keep in mind. A retirement account is like a vehicle. It's like a car. Fast car, slow car, truck, SUV. We can play with that analogy even further. But if we have that vehicle, what you put in the trunk is up to you. It could be stock. It could be real estate. It could be unique investments that only you're aware of. Some patent, some sort of royalty, oil and gas. It could be some sort of raw land deal. But you can buy any sort of business that you dream of inside your retirement account. You get to put what's in the trunk, and you can kick the stockbroker out of the driver's seat and take over driving the car. It's legal. It's been there for years and years. Wall street doesn't want you to know that. It's called self directing. Please get over to our sister podcast, the directed Ira podcast, where you can direct your retirement account. We call it directed Ira podcast. But it's any sort of retirement account. That's what unlocks this wealth building as well, is realizing, yeah, putting that money in my retirement account. But on day two, I'm going to invest that retirement account in what I know best.

Mat Sorensen: 19:56

Yeah. And I actually happened to write a book on it. The self directed Ira handbook.

Mark J Kohler: 19:59

Yeah.

Mat Sorensen: 20:00

It's the number one book on the subject. But for a lot of people, there's a number of steps you got to get to the retirement account. We did. The last episode in the podcast was on building that retirement account. And the first thing it does is it takes commitment to contribute to it. Again, this is not something you do one year and you're done. Passive income. Check the box. Done. No, we're talking about having the discipline to save and set this money aside, max out these retirement accounts. It's seven grand for an IRA. You could be doing 2030K in your company. Four hundred and one K at your day job. If you have a solo K, you could be doing 69,000 a year. You could be putting in a health savings account. You got a spouse. We can do Roth Iras for them. Let's get your kids involved. Do you have a small business? And they're working in it. We got some income to them. I mean, there's a lot of different facets to this on how to build it in the different buckets. But it's one of these things that if you started on year one, you don't feel like you've moved the needle. You just don't. Year two or three, you kind of don't. But once you hit, like, year four or five. You've got about four or five years of contributions. You start to have some investment growth of the money you put in one or two, you start seeing that needle really move, and now your money's working for you. And now, all of a sudden, the investment power and growth of that account, the returns that you get from it, are more than the money you put in. And that's when you start getting excited, because you're like, whoo, this thing's growing, not just from what I put in and contribute every year, but the investment growth. But you've got to get the ball rolling. You've got to have the discipline to get through those few years where it seems a little, like, slow to start getting the money working for you.

Mark J Kohler: 21:28

It's just like getting that car, all the kinks worked out, getting it on the freeway and going on to the on ramp. Year four or five is when you're getting onto the freeway.

Mat Sorensen: 21:38

You're like, fifth gear.

Mark J Kohler: 21:40

For four years, I've been slugging it out here on the surface streets trying to get to the freeway. I get a pull on. And that's a lot of times when clients start calling us is in that fourth or fifth year. And they're like, oh, my gosh. How can I put more in? Oh, you remember what we said five years ago? At least you put in your bare minimum. Now let's talk about giving this some turbo. And they're like, oh, my gosh. Yeah. And so it'll come. So be patient. You're maybe just on the surface streets, but you're going to get over there to the freeway and be patient. It takes some work. You got to map it. Got to deal with some stoplights.

Mat Sorensen: 22:12

Yeah, let's cue the music. Life in the fast lane, right now.

Mark J Kohler: 22:15

That'S what you want, to be in the fast lane. Okay, well, so the last metaphor I wanted to say is, I don't know, maybe it's because it's winter and you were snow skiing just two days ago, which I was very jealous of. You did Jackson Hole?

Mat Sorensen: 22:31

I did Jackson Hole. It was steep.

Mark J Kohler: 22:32

Did you go up and top?

Mat Sorensen: 22:34

Oh, yeah, went all the way to the top.

Mark J Kohler: 22:35

They yell it on the tram. What did they yell on the tram?

Mat Sorensen: 22:38

If you don't know, don't go.

Mark J Kohler: 22:41

Everybody's like, what are you talking about? And you get off the tram and you look straight down and you're like, this is a triple black diamond. I'll just take the little path around the site. There is no little path.

Mat Sorensen: 22:51

There is no take the easier way down.

Mark J Kohler: 22:54

There's no easier way to get back on the tram.

Mat Sorensen: 22:56

That's the easy way down.

Mark J Kohler: 22:58

Yeah. So I had snow on the mind here. I was thinking of snow, and when you're putting money into a retirement account, I want to close this out on the third pillar. We really need you to dedicate it because the snow is stickier in a retirement account. Now, what I mean by that is, if you're going to build a snowman and you're over here with kind of crappy, powdery type snow, it's going to take a lot more work to roll that snow, get it into a snowman, you're going to do it and it'll work, but it's just going to take a little. Not as much. Snow is going to be sticking. And you'd know those days where you're like, I give up. My snowman's only going to be 3ft tall. I can't go for the monster. But when you're dealing with money in a retirement account, the snow is perfect. It's not slushy, it's not powdery, it's just sticking. And so you're able to get a bigger snowball going down the hill, if you will, or a bigger snowman, because there's no tax to pay along the way. And when you're doing that Roth Ira, it's the most efficient snow on the planet, and it's going to make that snowman as big as you want to make it. Where over here. You're still going to do the snowman, the powder, but it's going to take a little more work. And let's let that sticky snow in the retirement account work for you.

Mat Sorensen: 24:08

Yeah, I love that. That's a great analogy. I think to say it another way is, remember, the money you're making is you're building wealth. You've got income in the retirement account, whether it's real estate, you own in the retirement account, a small business, a startup, crypto, a stock, an ETF, whatever it is, that income you're getting off of it, or the gain, when you sell any of those assets, it doesn't even hit your 1040. It's not on your tax return. You do not send any money to the IRS. That's what Mark's talking about, this snowball accumulating and there's no melt, nothing's going off. Nothing's falling off and going to the IRS.

Mark J Kohler: 24:40

All right?

Mat Sorensen: 24:41

And then, like Mark said, with the Roth accounts in particular, when you're pulling that out, later, you get to keep every penny of it. There's no tax on the way out either. So that's the unique thing about retirement accounts and why people freaking use them. I know it's not sexy. I know people are like, well, that's Ira, 401K. That's not sexy, guys. It is how people build wealth. It is how people are living in retirement and they have a retirement they're looking forward to. It's because they've been disciplined, they've saved, they use these tax advantage accounts and they've done it for the long haul.

Mark J Kohler: 25:09

Well, thank you everybody for taking the time to educate yourself and hopefully today you're a little more wiser than you were yesterday. And building financial wealth could come a little easier.

Mat Sorensen: 25:19

Yeah, we hope these three pillars are helpful to you to learning the real strategies about how you can take control of your financial future and have a passive income empire.

Mark J Kohler: 25:29

And to help you further, I put together another video on the 25 tax strategies only the rich know about. It's a wonderful way to kind of get some of those tools out of the toolbox that can help you accelerate your passive income empire. So click down below, check that out. And I know you're going to get a great download with that as well as a video to help you succeed.

Mat Sorensen: 25:51

We'll see you next time. Close.