Main Street Business

#600 Protecting Your Business in Divorce - Asset Protection When a Marriage Ends

• Mark J Kohler and Mat Sorensen • Episode 600

Share episode

conversation with bestselling author and negotiation expert Rebecca Zung and attorney Mark J. Kohler. We break down what to do first, what to avoid, and how to protect your future — without playing dirty.

You’ll learn the five main areas courts consider in family law cases—property division, spousal support, custody and parenting decisions, child support, and attorney’s fees—and how each one affects the next. We cover business valuation timing, enterprise vs. personal goodwill, forensic accounting, lifestyle analysis, and “sudden income deficiency syndrome.” Plus, Rebecca explains her SLAY framework (Strategy, Leverage, Anticipate, You) for negotiating with narcissists and staying out of emotional sabotage.

If this helped, subscribe for weekly legal and tax strategy insights, drop your questions in the comments, and share with a friend who needs it.

You’ll learn:

  • How to prepare financially before filing for divorce — and the first critical steps to protect your assets and credibility
  • The five main areas every family law case covers: property division, spousal support, custody and parenting decisions, child support, and attorney’s fees
  • How and when to value a business during divorce, including the difference between enterprise and personal goodwill
  • Why forensic accounting, lifestyle analysis, and “sudden income deficiency syndrome” can make or break your case
  • Smart strategies for both the moneyed and non-moneyed spouse to stay financially stable during proceedings
  • How Rebecca Zung’s SLAY framework (Strategy, Leverage, Anticipate, You) helps you negotiate with a narcissist and avoid emotional traps

Get a comprehensive tax consultation with one of our Main Street tax lawyers that can build a tax strategy plan with an affordable consultation that will leave you speechless!! 

Here’s the link - https://kkoslawyers.com/services/comprehensive-bus-tax-consult/?utm_source=buzzsprout&utm_medium=description-link&utm_campaign=main-street-business-podcast&utm_content=msbp600-rebecca-zung-interview 

SPEAKER_01:

Hey, if the marriage is on the rocks, you really need to kind of put the financial dream and journey you're on right now on hold for a minute.

SPEAKER_00:

People will actually even sabotage themselves to try to take the other person down. It's like I'll burn my own business to the ground so I don't have to pay this person alimony.

SPEAKER_01:

If you know that divorce is coming, start gathering as much data as you can, play little investigator, start building files, gather any data you can or any information you can that might be easier to get now rather than later.

SPEAKER_00:

Sports teams don't win on their defense, they win on the offense.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, I'm excited to welcome Rebecca Zung. I've been on her podcast, which was amazing, and then I realized all of the similarities we had from different perspectives, helping a lot of times the same clients, and you just don't know what you don't know, and you don't go to your podiatrist for your LASIK surgery, and you don't go to a tax lawyer like me for your family law. So we are both specialists in our respective fields. Um, she's Rebecca's a best-selling author, negotiation expert, known for her conflict resolution, uh, particularly in divorce cases. And she's uh been recognized as the best lawyer, as a best lawyer in America, um, and has been featured on media outlike outlets like Forbes Newsweek, um, NPR, blah, blah, blah, all those good things. And her bestseller is uh Slay the Bully, How to Negotiate with a Narcissist and Win. And that already puts me on the defense. I'm feeling already nervous. I'm supposed to be interviewing you. Now I'm like all nervous. So Rebecca, thanks for being here.

SPEAKER_00:

Thank you. I love it when two attorneys get together. It's so fun.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, people love it.

SPEAKER_00:

That's their favorite.

SPEAKER_01:

It's a party. Um well, my my followers know me and my listeners know what we talk about, but everyone you know, this is I don't know if you want to call it a blind spot, but just something we don't talk about enough. It's not fun to talk about, it's uncomfortable. And so when I'm doing asset protection and tax planning, I've even had my attorneys more and more ask in the initial consul, how's your marriage? It can totally change the landscape of our estate plan, the tax planning, what's going on. And when we see that it's a wreck waiting to happen, well, a lot of times we'll put our a lot of legal planning on hold and say, go figure that out.

SPEAKER_00:

That is so smart. That is so smart that you you do that now.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, well, so I'm setting the stage for one of my first questions because all of us know that's what we do here. But Rebecca, man, let's say, yeah, maybe that was a great setup. Let's say that client is not on the call with their spouse, male or female, and we they say, Yeah, I'm worried about asset protection and tax and all that, but my marriage, we it's gotta end. Where do you start with that? What do you what's your I can't wait to ask you a whole litany of questions. Let's just start there. They go, What do I need to do, Rebecca? And they're freaking out.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, there's so many questions I have. First of all, do they have a prenal?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I'd say 95% of my clients don't.

SPEAKER_00:

Right, right. Most most don't. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And so did they, did they? I have more questions.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, you go, girl. I love you. Work it. So let's actually back up and tell me, let's get to know you for a minute, too. Because I I'm so excited to have you walk us through what you do as a high-stakes family lawyer, if I may. And so many of my listeners are gonna want to know, oh no, if this does happen to me and I need to talk about divorce, tell us how you you found this career and why you do it and love it, because I know you're so passionate about it.

SPEAKER_00:

Tell us how you well, I actually didn't plan on doing high net worth divorce. I thought I was gonna do some something around business associations. I had gotten the book award for business associations in law school. So, for those of you who don't know what that is, the highest grade for that class. And I I loved it. I thought business associations was the thing for me. Um, so uh my husband and I met in law school. He was a year ahead of me, and he had already started in his career, and we went to a dinner, uh, an attorney dinner while I was still in law school. And I happened to meet this woman who was one of the top family law attorneys in the country at the time. And she wooed me into coming to work for her by saying, Hey, I do high net worth family law. My cases are basically like business associations that are dissolving. And she got me to come work for her. Um, and really, high net worth family law is a very, very specialized area of the law because you have to have an understanding of trust law and corporations law and tax law, all sorts of areas that most people, even most family law attorneys, don't need to have an intimate knowledge about. So it was a great experience for me. I ended up going out on my own eventually and building a big, big practice, but then I always say it built it and then it ate me. And I decided I didn't want to do that anymore. So during COVID, I started on YouTube, and now I really have a training corporation and I've designed my own AI, and we have a lot of really exciting things happening. But that's how I fell into it. I fell into it um sort of by accident.

SPEAKER_01:

Um, what was one of the biggest surprises that when you started to have your first cases um that you experienced when you saw these this couple uh starting to fight financially and emotionally in all the ways it's get they can get so ugly? And I think we can all uh imagine that. We've seen a few movies like that. But what was surprised, was there anything surprising to you that you were like, huh, I didn't expect that? Like it was just kind of odd.

SPEAKER_00:

You mean what what surprised me about being in family law at all? I mean, I I think probably just how ugly people can be and how people will actually even sabotage themselves in order to try to take the other person down. Things that make no sense, like I'll burn my own business to the ground so I don't have to pay this person alimony. I'd rather pay you attorney's fees than pay the other person. Things like that that make no sense to me because they're not thinking from their prefrontal cortex, they're thinking from their limbic brain.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, no, that's interesting because I think we all know a divorce can get ugly, but I guess and I've been on the inside here with uh being a lawyer too, just not on the front line as a divorce attorney. And so I see the ugliness and it is it and I can't imagine what you've seen because what the I've seen, it's just so sad, and it's so uh so much money's lost and wasted in the process. So uh let's say, okay, so let's go back to my question here too, because I'm dying to ask this. Clients come in and want to do asset protection, their biggest threat is their marriage. Yeah, and they may not know that. Right. And let's say they know the marriage is on the rocks and they know a marriage is looming, uh divorce is looming. What do you recommend them to start doing? And I know it's not hiding assets because that's BS and it pisses you off and me too.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

But is there anything you can do?

SPEAKER_00:

Like So I'm assuming I'm talking to the moneyed spouse in this conversation, right? Is that is that the assumption?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, let's do that. Fair enough. Because there's there's two situations there. Let's start there. Yeah. So the money spouse, the one maybe the breadwinner, the founder, the president, whatever it is of most of their holdings, yeah, they're they're like gonna be more territorial, I suspect. And yeah, what do you tell them?

SPEAKER_00:

Like so I always say that what a judge is going to do as far as property is concerned, because there's there's five main areas of any family law case, which are the property division spousal support, potentially, uh, the custody parental decision-making authority aspect is number three. Number four is child support, and number five is fees, attorney's fees. So those are the five main areas in any family law case, and I name them in that order for a reason, because that is the order. And the reason why is each one of those things affects the next thing. So if you have a moneyed couple, then um the property division has to come first because if one party is going to be receiving assets that throws off income, then that affects their support claim and also uh affects the child support claim, it also affects the fees claim. So that really kind of has to come first. And then alimony is next or support, spousal support, whatever it's called in your state, because that affects the child support. So if if you have, if you're getting a lot in alimony, then that will be counted, or if you're getting any alimony, it's counted toward your income for support. So um, and then parental decision-making authority third because or or custody or the the parenting plan third because income and overnights is what's looked at at the in the guidelines many times. So um that's why it's important to look at everything in order. So just going into the property division piece of it, which I think is where you're talking about, the I would have questions. So the questions that I would have are first of all, is there a prenup? Which no, most of the time it's no. Second of all, how long of a marriage is this? Is it a year or is it 30? Because there is a huge difference on what kinds of assets might have been accumulated during that period of time. And then the next thing is how were the assets acquired? Was it passively or was it actively? Were they earned assets, earned income, acquired those assets? Because earned income, generally, by and large, is either marital if you're in equitable distribution state or community property if you're in a community property state. So it's not necessarily how something is titled, it's what were the funds, what was the uh source of the funds that acquired that particular property or or padded that bank account or that retirement account or whatever it is. What was the source? So the first thing a judge is gonna do is create three piles, which is the his, hers, and theirs pile. And the theirs pile is the one that's gonna get divided. But the things that are gonna get carved off are premarital um assets, potentially, if they've not been commingled or um or or potentially inherited assets, um separate assets, things like that. So, but my question would be how were these assets accumulated and when?

SPEAKER_01:

Okay. I want to that's this is good. I know I know because they're it's hard to get general answers to these tough questions because they're gonna be so uh specifically driven by the fact pattern of what's going on with this couple, and they're always different. But let me throw this out at you then. Okay, this is my you know, grass with grass is green, sky is blue, glasses half full, empty mark collar. I mean glasses half full mark aller. Very optimistic. Here's what I think. If no one is trying to cheat or hide assets, I don't think you can really prepare financially for divorce. If you if we just go with the law, it is what it is. It's either a marital asset or it's not. The law's very clear on what is or isn't as you go through those questions. We can spend a whole hour just talking about inheritance for heaven's sakes, right? So we could go so it is what it is, and then a judge is gonna divide it according to law. And so it seems like to me, all the fighting is emotional. If they took the motions out, it's a transaction for crying out loud. That's my crazy talk, maybe.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, I'm gonna say yes and no, because I'm gonna give you a very typical lawyer answer, which is it depends. Um so it depends because there are gray areas, and these are the areas that people end up fighting over, which are, for example, if a business was uh created and started during the marriage, and now it's worth, you know, potentially$30 million or whatever. But is it actually worth$30 million? So now you're gonna get a forensic accountant involved to decide, well, you know, no, we're not counting this, or no, this is, or no, they're not actually making this much an income. No, this is actually, you know, uh there's ways that you can carve off um different types of goodwill. There's personal goodwill and enterprise goodwill. And um in Florida, for example, um, enterprise goodwill is a marital asset, but personal goodwill is not. Uh, and so there that's where people are gonna start to dig in and fight. And that's one example.

SPEAKER_01:

So if you're talking to a money part, the money spouse, let's stay with that for a moment, you might say, Hey, if you're planning an expansion, if you're creating some new value for your business, it would behoove you to get this divorce behind you and an appraisal of what the business is right now, rather than two years from now after you create this new product or this new service. So it's let's rip the band-aid off now would be a planning technique. And then once the divorce is over, go go out and create your new revenue source idea, develop it, whatever. And that's not unethical or no, it's not.

SPEAKER_00:

No, no. I mean, it just depend it depends on whether or not it's actually gonna be that much more valuable. I mean, I guess it's hard to know. Um, but the rub is that there's other types of assets, let's say stock options, that there's sometimes a question on you know if they're vested or not vested, or when were they earned, and uh, and what was what what was the evaluation that went into those are those stock earnings? Like in other words, was it two years ago, or was it you know that person has to continue to work in the business in order to uh realize those those options? That things like that, that's where people get stuck in the mud.

SPEAKER_01:

So let's turn the tables for just a minute. And um now you have a consult with the non-money spouse. Um I guess historically, that might be the spo the wife, you know. Um more and more I see both sides, of course, breadwinners. But let's say this non-money spouse comes in and says, I know my husband or whoever my wife is cheating on me, whatever, I know that the divorce is looming. What should I do? And I I'm gonna say I guess more of this issue is about the forensicness, the the the looking under rocks. What what do you what do you talk about with them?

SPEAKER_00:

For sure. I would say gather as much documentation as you can because a lot of times the non-moneyed spouse has no idea where anything is or how to even access it. I I don't know where the assets are, I don't know how much money this person makes. So that can be an issue. I mean, not that it can't be figured out, but the more you can do that detective work on your own, the less you have to pay lawyers or forensics to do it for you. So I would say start gathering documentation, um, take pictures of statements just so that you at least know where things are being held. So that's one thing. Um, and yeah, with the with that type of a spouse, you're gonna hire a forensic probably for at least business valuation, but also potentially income valuation, true income valuation. And then a third area that you might need a financial forensic would be the lifestyle analysis. So understanding how much you've spent on your lifestyle in the last, you know, probably 12 months, maybe 24, depending on whether or not there was a major shift. But and and that's like it's almost uh uh like getting a colonoscopy, I'm gonna just say, because it's literally every little thing that you've spent money on, you know, your your pet expenses, your hair, your Botox, your uh your vacations, eating out, the groceries, the you know, your nail salon, literally everything, and coming up with an average of what that lifestyle has actually looked like for um a support claim.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay, so just still to distill that down, a couple points would be if you know that divorce is coming, start gathering as much data as you can, play little investigator, start building files, gather any data you can or uh any information you can that might be easier to get now rather than later. And number two, well, it also gives the lawyer starts living a little larger lifestyle.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh well, potentially. That's definitely true. That's definitely true. Um, now it just depends. Like some states don't count like savings, regular savings as a lifestyle. So if the party regularly put five thousand dollars a month aside in savings, since that's not going to be considered the you know a need as far as the needs analysis for a lifestyle analysis for a support claim. So yeah, go ahead and start spending that money instead. That's one thing. Don't get a job uh right before, because then that income is going to be counted toward your um support claim and reduce your need. Um so I would definitely say that. Um, I mean, as far as like knowing where things are, I mean, it's more so like that it gives the lawyer sort of a place to start, because then they can go, okay, I can go subpoena JP Morgan or I can go subpoena this bank or or or whatever, just so that they at least have a place to start. The other thing I would recommend the non-moneyed spouse do is have a stash of cash, um, at least start accumulating some cash that they can access. Because if that money spouse decides to be um, you know, difficult, which they're known to be at times, um, yes, you can go and get in front of a judge for a temporary relief hearing, but it may take two months to get in front of the judge or three months to get in front of the judge. And then the judge may take another month to give you a ruling. So, in during that period of time, you are going to want to have some kind of stash of cash, not just to live on, but also to go hire the lawyers, get everything started, because um it could be a while before you get a hearing on temporary relief.

SPEAKER_01:

Um tell me what you think of this statement, too. Um I tell clients this, and I don't know, maybe it's I mean, we're called counselors for a reason under the law. We are counseling our clients on financial and legal, tax and emotional and family matters. We are, we're counselors, and so clients without meeting with a family law attorney will oftentimes ask a trusted advisor like me, what do I do? And my general advice oftentimes is hey, if the marriage is on the rocks, you really need to kind of put the financial dream and journey you're on right now on hold for a minute because building, growing, acquiring all this stuff that you want to do, because they're coming to see me to build a trifecta and a strategy and say that and go, boo, boom. I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. If you're the if your marriage is on the rocks, you either gotta rip the cord and be done with it, yeah, or get it, get it fixed and do a post-nup or something. Post nup is always I don't want to work on your finances until you got your crap together. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

I think that's exactly right. I mean, um, if you know what happens a lot of times is the money spouse will have um, you know, what we call SIBs or sudden income deficiency syndrome, because especially if they're an entrepreneur, they play with the money and you know, they kind of, oh, you know what? Um, that receivable account, I'm not gonna go collect on that right now. I'll just tell the client, hold on. Uh, you know, they play little games like that. Um, but it's usually pretty easy to see that in the forensics process.

SPEAKER_01:

Now, in your book, and I I this is a wild title, uh, I want to repeat it for everybody, Slay the Bully, How to Negotiate with a Narcissist and When. I want to ask, because I've seen it. I'm not gonna say anything yet. Do you who's more likely the narcissist? The non-money spouse or the money spouse?

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, that is really both, both sides. You know, I can tell you this: that I used to think that a narcissist was a male, bragging, sort of misogynistic, hold court, demand the best table in the restaurant, kind of didn't have a whole lot of empathy, didn't care about people, like sort of a, you know, what we used to call boar, right? You know, like boorish type of a person. And what I found was um after I had built my practice, I had was in the process of transitioning into, you know, what I am ultimately doing now. But during that time, I had been engaged in different entrepreneurial endeavors. And in one of them, I ended up with this female um covert passive-aggressive narcissist, which I did not know that such a thing even existed. I just knew it was miserable and it was a miserable situation, but she seemed so nice to everybody else and she seemed so kind. And but yet there was this underlying jealousy and this underlying competition. And, you know, I would find out that things were being withheld from me, information. It was super passive aggressive. Oh, I I could have sworn I put you on that email chain. I don't know how your name got left off of that. Um, you know, things like that. And it was just death by a thousand cuts. And then I found out later that she was a covert, passive-aggressive narcissist. And um they're almost just as stealthily insidious and evil as a narcissist, quite frankly.

SPEAKER_01:

What we all think of an outward-facing narcissist, very interesting. So wow. Okay, so we talked about, and I know I could talk to you for hours about this because it is in in the reason why is I would bet everybody listening, either you yourself or a close friend, is in a tough marriage. Everybody. Everybody knows somebody if it's not you. Yeah, and you're gonna be having a drink with them, a cocktail, a talk, a walk, a hike, a drive, and they're gonna brain, you know, vomit all of this emotion in them and ask you for advice. And so everybody listening to if this isn't hitting home for you, just some of these points, I hope that you're taking something away because you're gonna be a shoulder for someone. And you're gonna want to get them to the right lawyer, get them to the right coach, the counselor. And I want to talk about what you're doing now moving forward too, Rebecca. Just a couple more questions. I just your your experience here is so valuable for to so many people. Um but we just talked about the two people that come to you that know the divorce is coming. Now someone walks in the door, money partner money spouse or non-money spouse, and they're like, oh my gosh, my spouse just filed for divorce. What do I do? Wow, I know this. You're like, Mark, I'm gonna start asking questions. I don't know. I mean, it's like I where do you go with that? But it it it's you're on a different side of the table again. I I don't know. What do you what do you do?

SPEAKER_00:

Well, I mean, the first thing they have to process through is their fear and their emotion of it, because uh one of the things I say all the time is your identity precedes your destiny. And so really understanding who are you in this process? Who are you showing up as? Who are you showing up for? Because if you don't believe that you can get the results that you want, no one can help you. You can have the best lawyer on the planet, but if you want to remain in this victim state and you know, no one can help me, and that person's way smarter and they have all the money, and uh, no one is going to be able to get the results for you. So, really starting to process that that emotion in a way that you're gonna be able to show up. I always say the divorce paradox is that during the worst, most heinous, horrible time in your life, it's like right up there with uh death and public speaking is like the people's biggest fear, the thing they hate the most, right? You have to make the most critical decisions of your life about everything, your business, the things that mean the most to you, your business, your family, your money, your future. And you have to make them clear-headed because you're gonna have to live with these things for going forward. So the the fastest thing that you can do is figure out self-care, get a support group, get you know, get that team of good people around you, get coaching if you need it, you know, whatever resources and tools you're gonna need so that you can power through this and be strong and make clear-headed decisions.

SPEAKER_01:

I like it. Um, one last question on this topic, and I promise, is this self-sabotage that you alluded to at the beginning. And so someone here listening again, or is gonna have that friend come to them is gonna have so much hate in them or anger against their spouse they're in this fight with that, like you said, they will burn the business down rather than give them half a bit. Um, and someone listening, that could be you're just like you have no idea how bad he is or how bad she is or whatever. Right. I've been there. I I'm divorced. And it was a very expensive, difficult, long divorce. Um, and I'm with a beautiful woman now, Patty, and we're business partners and have seven amazing kids that we combine together, and we're just so happy. And um, it's tough for my ex-wife. It was tough. I recognize that. And it it was very hard. Um, but I didn't get to that point where I was ready to destroy everything to hurt her. Um, and I don't know, do you have any advice, or what do you want to tell them just to shake them and go, don't do this? Or I don't know, what do you do to try to get someone off that cliff? Or is there anything you can do?

SPEAKER_00:

Well, those are the people that really tend to have the more narcissistic tendencies, to be honest with you. And now that we know more about the brain science, which the brain science is that those people tend to have a more um hypersensitive um amygdala. And so their amygdala gets hijacked very quickly, very easily. And when their amygdala is hijacked like that, that's when that limbic brain turns on and the prefrontal cortex shuts, literally shuts down because they're in survival mode. They think that this is what they have to do in order to survive, but they don't realize that what they're actually doing is self-sabotaging. So, what I tell people who have the ability to understand that is going back to what I was just saying to you earlier, which is breathing techniques, meditation, vagus nerve stimulation, whatever you need to do to calm your nervous system so that you can get back into your prefrontal cortex, that thinking, judgment, rational brain, instead of being in full on emotion, fight or flight, adrenaline, cortisol levels off the charts. Because you're not thinking clearly if that's where you are.

SPEAKER_01:

Wow. Well, anybody out there if you feel like you're not thinking clearly, stop because you're hurting yourself too. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Uh that and your kids potentially. And say again. And your kids potentially.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. They extended even if they're adult children, you're hurting them.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Um, absolutely. Um well tell us after this amazing career in this very tough arena, uh, you found a new passionate dream. And I wanted to hear about this as just as much. Can you tell us what you're doing now and what and what lives you're changing?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, so during COVID, I started on YouTube, which was really, I just thought, okay, who's gonna watch this other than my mom and her church friends, you know, but um, which is pretty much the only ones to watch at the beginning, but then I did one video on how to um how to negotiate with a narcissist, and that took off. And and so I I really didn't think, uh, I remember saying to my husband, I do not want to be the narcissist queen. This is not my path. But God had a different um plan for me, and um, I hope I can say that, but um, I just think it's it sounds kind of corny.

SPEAKER_01:

You know, damn straight, you should. I mean, I didn't come from an amoeba. There's someone out there, there's a divine presence, and they're I'm being guided, so I appreciate you.

SPEAKER_00:

I just really truly believe that you know he chose me to be this uh spokesperson on behalf of people who are feeling um disempowered or feeling voiceless and being attacked by a narcissist for dealing with one. Yes. And so I started to get all these this mail and these messages about how I'd saved their lives, and I thought, okay, this is what I'm supposed to be doing. And so I just kept going with it. And I developed um the SLAY program initially, which is strategy, leverage, anticipate, and you, which is the acronym for it.

SPEAKER_01:

And then whoa, whoa, whoa. I've already been writing down notes during this whole thing, and I want to just get that real quick. Everybody's got to get your book on it, too. But what's this acronym? Say it again.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh uh SLAY. I mean, that's you know, the brand. And it stands for strategy, which is create your strategy, create your vision, your GPS, where it is that you're going, that's first. Um, because from that emanates your action plan. And then next is leverage, figuring out how to create leverage. And then A was anticip is anticipate what the narcissist could do, stay two steps ahead of them. Um, and then why is the you, which is what we were talking about earlier, which is creating your identity. Who are you? Who's showing up? Um, and and being on the offensive instead of the defensive. You know, sports teams don't win on their defense, they win on the offense, right? And so um I created that five years ago. My sleigh program has sold, I don't know, thousands and thousands and thousands. I mean, at least 15,000 um of those. And um, and then uh a couple of years ago, I um uh unveiled my certification, and I have a Justice Blueprint um program. Those are higher ticket with coaching and that sort of thing. And then uh last year I unveiled my Slay AI, which is the Justice Tech legal leverage engine. It's the first of its kind that takes scattered documentation from all different sources. It could be your communication, text messages, uh, social media, bank statements, credit card statements, deposition transcripts, whatever it is, and synthesizes it all and looks for patterns of deception and manipulation and inconsistencies and instantly creates court-ready exhibits and applies the local law in whatever state or country you're in so that it saves you so much time and money and energy and fees and trauma and headache and get you the results that you want.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, and I just on that note, everybody, I want to emphasize the importance of that AI that Rebecca is talking about because you've got two problems. You've got to you hire a forensic accountant and to try to figure out what your spouse has been doing with the money. Right. They're expensive, you're not their only client. It's gonna take hours and hours. They don't understand your client, they don't understand your world. They're trying to just get a job done and get out, fine. And then you, you do know your spouse, you do know the world, you know what's there, but you don't have the skills of the forensic accountant. You think there's patterns there, but you can't articulate them. The forensic accountant's like, what the hell are you talking about? And so this AI just kind of like brings that all together and says, look at this. This might be where you're missing the boat.

SPEAKER_00:

Correct. So, for example, on that to that to your point, and I love talking to other lawyers because they get this immediately. Um, is let's say somebody puts on their financial affidavit that they're making$40,000 a year or something like that. But then their bank statements demonstrate that they're spending$200,000 a month. And so clearly there's a discrepancy now between what one said and what the other one said, or and then maybe in their deposition they said something else. And then maybe the credit card statement shows something else. And so this will actually pick all of that up immediately and create uh uh an exhibit for you saying financial discrepancies, financial inconsistencies or or lies or or something like that, financial deception, manipulation. It might it might discover, for example, um, and this is what distinguishes it from a uh you know a regular chat GPT or whatever, because it's been programmed to look for patterns. Um, so for example, if somebody transferred assets just before filing, you know, a GPT might not say, hey, that there's a problem with that, whatever, it's not there. But this will pick that up and go, wait a minute, this might be some kind of a fraudulent transfer. We might need to do a clawback here. Um, you need to take a look at this.

SPEAKER_01:

I love it. I've uh been wanting to relate personal stories terribly in this podcast with this not appropriate.

SPEAKER_00:

It's like oh come on, do test just us.

SPEAKER_01:

No, no, my gosh, no. I but this has been so amazing, and I've written down all sorts of uh little notes.

SPEAKER_00:

I love that income deficiency syndrome, sudden income deficiency syndrome, so SIDS.

SPEAKER_01:

Sudden income deficiency. I'm in divorce, so I have nothing now.

SPEAKER_00:

So they start to go in this crazy all of a sudden they they don't make any money. They made two million dollars last year, but this year they don't make any. It's$40,000.

SPEAKER_01:

Wow, and I like that identity seat procedure, destiny, this strategy, leverage, anticipate, and then you so good. Um well, where can people get the some of these amazing resources you've created um for these people that are really in a tough situation?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. So I mean, I would say people could start with my crush my negotiation prep uh playbook. That's I've literally, I think 150,000 or more have downloaded that. So you can get that at winmyegotiation.com. Um, so I would start with that. It's totally free. Um, other than other than that, my YouTube is Rebecca Zong.tv. Um, my Instagram is at Rebecca Zong, and you know, my website is that as well. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

It's all connected. We'll make sure all of that's in the program notes, everybody, too. So don't stress that you didn't have a pen and paper handy. And um, Rebecca, thanks so much for spending the your valuable time with us. And I I know it's gonna help somebody for sure. Uh get another message in the mail. You saved my life, Rebecca. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00:

My pleasure. It was my pleasure. It's always a pleasure to talk to you.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, thank you so much. Wish you the best. Have a happy holiday season, and everyone, thanks for listening to another episode of the Main Street Business Podcast. And God bless you in your effort to build a relationship in a marriage, survive after one, or be a best friend of someone in the middle of that challenge. So, everyone uh take care. Thanks, Rebecca.

Head Shot

Mark J. Kohler

Host