Season 3 Episode 10: Navigating Fertility as a Cervical Cancer Survivor: A Journey of Loss and Hope

GOSH Podcast survey:
https://ubc.ca1.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_9vJ2Jt3Mr6OPJBk

In the last episode of Season 3 of the GOSH podcast, we are honored to have our co-host Nicole Keay sharing her fertility journey as a cervical cancer survivor. Nicole shares her personal experiences with fertility loss and the challenges she had to navigate along the way. Nicole takes us on a heartfelt journey sharing her decision-making process, shedding light on the financial and legislative aspects of surrogacy and egg donation in Canada. Nicole provides valuable tips and resources for others facing similar situations. Join us for this inspiring episode as Nicole's story offers hope and resilience on the path to parenthood. 

CancerConnection from the Canadian Cancer Society: 

https://cancerconnection.ca/s/ 

Fertile Future - Charity that provides a reduction in cost for fertility preservation for cancer patients: 

https://fertilefuture.ca/programs/power-of-hope/ 

If you would like to reach out to Nicole, please reach out at:
info@gynecancerinitiative.ca

Transcript

SPEAKERS  

Stephanie, Nicole 

SUMMARY KEYWORDS  

Fertility, Fertility Preservation, Survivorship, Cervical Cancer, Gynecological cancers, Advocacy, Oncology, GOSH podcast 

Intro: 

Thanks for listening to the GOSH podcast. GOSH stands for the Gynecologic Oncology Sharing Hub, an open space for real and evidence-based discussions on gynecologic cancers. We'll share the stories of gyne cancer patients and survivors and hear from researchers and clinicians who are working behind the scenes to improve the lives of people with gynecologic cancers. Our podcast is produced and recorded on traditional unceded territories of the Musqueam, Squamish, and Tsleil-Waututh Nations. It is produced by the Gynecologic Cancer Initiative, a province-wide initiative in British Columbia with a mission to accelerate transformative research and translational practice on the prevention, detection, treatment, and survivorship of gynecologic cancers.  

Hi, I'm Nicole Keay, and I'm Stephanie Lam and you're listening to the GOSH, podcast. 

00:00:00 Stephanie 

Welcome back, dear listeners, to another episode of GOSH podcast! I'm your host, Stephanie Lam, and today, I have some bittersweet news to share with you all. This episode marks the end of our fantastic season, but don't worry, we'll be back before you know it with more amazing content! 

But before we jump into our last episode, we would love to hear from you, our incredible audience. So, we've put together a short survey for you to share your thoughts, suggestions, and ideas. In this survey, we have a few simple demographic questions to help us better understand our listeners. Also, If you have ever thought of being a guest on our show or have someone in mind who you would like to hear from, well, now's your chance! We are looking for guests who can bring unique perspectives, expertise, and stories to share with our audience. 

Your feedback will play a vital role in shaping the future direction of the show. So please, take a few minutes to complete the survey. You can find the survey link in the episode description. 

00:00:58 Stephanie 

So welcome back. To the Gosh podcast today we have just an episode with myself and Nicole.  
How are you doing, Nicole? 

00:01:05 Nicole 
I'm doing well, thanks. How are you, Stephanie? 

00:01:08 Stephanie 
Pretty good, pretty good. So I think this is a really this is an exciting episode for me. I think this is a really kind of fulsome moment and I think it's such an important topic, and something that doesn't get talked about a lot. So I'm very excited to hear about your journey and kind of what things have been, what you've been up to lately. But of course you've had shared a lot about your cancer journey on the GOSH podcast before, but for any new listeners, can you just share a little overview about your cancer journey your journey with cervical cancer.  
 
00:01:47 Nicole 

Yeah, it's been probably a long time since we had that first episode where we covered it off and just last week actually was the seven-year anniversary of when I received my diagnosis, which is kind of crazy because that's seven years, is a decent amount of time. But I can remember it like it was yesterday. 
 I remember exactly where I was, when I got the phone call, what I did afterwards. So and you know in a way it kind of feels like yesterday but yeah, I was diagnosed in 2016 with cervical cancer, stage 1B1, which in the beginning you know was early so and my main goal was to be able to have kids in the future, because I was only 33 and that was a big priority and something I wanted for my life. So I had surgery as the first step in treatment to remove the tumors. I had something called a radical trachelectomy and then after that I unfortunately, had to do more treatment that was recommended and I did chemo and internal and external radiation, so brachytherapy was that internal radiation and after that was in medically induced menopause, so they lost my fertility through that journey which was really devastating. 

And the one thing I had really wanted to avoid. But on the bright side, you know, 7 years post that diagnosis and doing very, very well and you know, I've had no setbacks or relapse in my cancer, which is of course, you know, the number one thing. So very grateful for the team that I had and the support that I got. But you know, it was not the way I wanted things to play out, that's for sure, yeah. 

00:03:57 Stephanie 

Yeah, I know that makes a lot of sense and I think you've spoken a lot about this on the podcast before and I think I hadn't realized it's already been seven years since your diagnosis, and I'm so glad you're doing well and you're healthy and everything and you know clearly the process of like diagnosis and going through the treatment and everything was, you know a very pivotal part of this journey, but I'm curious if you can tell us a little bit more about kind of life after cancer and more specifically what your fertility journey has been for you after the treatment that you went through. 

00:04:43 Nicole 

Yeah, absolutely. I came out of the treatment very, very positive. I had this mentality like cancer wasn't going to get me down and you know, I was going to go out and live my best life, and I would say that, you know, for the first couple months I was very positive and very motivated, I threw myself into absolutely everything. I went back to work within days and I took on some volunteer opportunities and signed up for the ride to conquer cancer, which is great to, you know, work on getting my strength back and doing something for myself and then it started to kind of like slowly creep in. 

 
Just how fatigued I was and really struggling with brain fog and anxiety and not sleeping at all and not realizing that a lot of that was related to medically induced menopause and not getting the proper hormonal support. So it took quite some time and actually taking I think I took three months off work to really just rest and tried a few different types and dosages for hormone replacement therapy until I got back to a place where I felt a little more like myself. But it was it was like I kind of just hit a wall and I just couldn't go any further and that was really hard and I didn't know what it was, and I felt like something was wrong, my GP thought I was depressed. I'm like, but I'm not, I want to do things, I want to see people, I get that some of the symptoms are related but it's just, it's not that like there's just something that's not right.  

And so, you know, once I thought of working towards you know, trying some different types of HRT that started to come back and you know doing much better today. But that was tough and you know, some of the other things that I just was not prepared for, that being one of them. But then you know the impacts to sexual health and you know my relationship with my partner, we had a lot of work that we had to do and just, you know, getting our relationship back on track. I was generally say I was a bit different and I, you know, didn't care about the same things or, you know, different things I prioritized was very focused on, you know, my well-being and what were the right things for me career wise, you know, just how I spent my time and was trying to shift mentality of you know what the new me was, I guess. And then the other piece was just around losing my fertility, I wasn't on the fence of whether or not I wanted to have kids I 100% wanted to have kids. I'd always wanted that. I was the little kid that played house and would like, shove pillows up my shirt and pretend like I was a pregnant mom carrying a baby. Like I wanted the whole thing and you know, had a really well laid out plan that I would have had kids by the time I had been diagnosed with cancer.  

So it really threw how I thought. I was going to live my life, you know, and had to, you know, really focus what that was going to look like and how badly I wanted it because it was no longer, you know, I want to call it an easy process, but it's straightforward process and what we needed to do, and the grief is something that I could not even comprehend, even just saying that I get emotional and still, you know, I can talk about every other aspect of the treatment, the diagnosis. But the minute I start talking about the fertility loss it's just like being like punched in the gut the emotions hit right away that was really the hardest part and probably the most challenging thing that I have had to overcome over the last seven years and it comes and goes and, you know, friends or family has pregnancy announcements or you know, you see different people with their babies and you know, all kinds of different things that just trigger that. But also trying to go through the fertility journey every step of the way. It was just a constant reminder of that grief and having to, you know, reprocess each time and we started when I knew after surgery that I was going to have to do the Q1 radiation they gave me a short window to go in and freeze my eggs, so I did that and the first time around I had tried to create embryos and then they didn't work out for us. So I froze some eggs the second time around and when we were ready to use them after getting married we had them fought and went through the process again to create embryos, and none of them were successful. So that was a really, really big below, because there's nothing you can do at that point to understand why it didn't work out for us. So you know it's unexplained, there's no answers going into the fertility preservation, had no real understanding of what it meant what it looks like you know, we had a very short time frame to meet with the doctor and she told us, you know, these are the percentage of what your success rate would be and you're on your way. So it was very challenging and most people don't talk about it. So why you don't really know about it until you're in that in that place where you need it. So yeah, it was very tough to then have to figure out how badly do we want to be parents and what are we willing to do to achieve that dream. And things like adoption are not as easy as they once where, we have a lot of supports for mothers now and we have a lot of opportunities like birth control and better sex education, that the amount of babies that are being placed in adoption at a newborn phase are not very many. So there's lengthy wait lists and it's definitely possible. And there's groups out there that can support you. We explored that option and it could happen really quickly or you know, you could wait and wait and wait, adopting overseas it is different than it once was as well. So you know we explored that route. 

 
We also went through the route of, you know, through the ministry and what that might look like and that was definitely something we considered, but the option you'd probably start fostering, and for somebody who really wanted to be a mother to foster and then you know, the goal is to get that child back with their biological parents. And so that felt like it would be really hard to do, to start that bond and, so you know, we went the route of a donation which you know, none of this is easily attainable because it's all private, so it's very costly and you know that's where those conversations around what are we willing to do and how far are we willing to go. Because there was definitely a point where, you know it's not feasible for us and I'm very fortunate that I had family that has helped support us throughout the journey and have very much also wanted to, you know, welcome, another grandchild and great grandchild into the family without their support, you know we wouldn't have been able to go on the journey that we did. I mean even the 1st fertility preservation, that's not part of your treatment. That's something that you pay for on your own and there's definitely some resources to support and bring the cost down a bit, but at the end of the day, it's still out of pocket, so it's unfortunately not accessible to everybody who wants to do that and so I'm very grateful you know that we've been able to get the support that we have to help progress us along. 
  
00:15:16 Stephanie 

Wow, that's a lot. First off, like thank you for sharing all of that like I can't imagine how hard it is to kind of be so vulnerable and be so open to sharing this part of your journey that has clearly been a really big part, kind of from the get go. So thank you for sharing that and I think that to your earlier point about people not talking about these sorts of things, I think it's these venues that I think will hopefully be able to help provide some perspective and provide some insight as to, you know, one be able to relate to future patients who may have to go through the same journey as you, but also from a more kind of healthcare standpoint. All of the different gaps and you know needed supports for patients who go through this sort of journey and go through, you know, life after cancer treatment and you know, all of the different turns and turmoils that patients have to go through, right? So I think that hopefully by sharing this part of your journey will shed some light on kind of all of these different components to it and I'm thrilled when I heard the news that you and your partner went through with egg donation and surrogacy.  

I was thrilled to hear the news, but can you walk us through kind of that part of the journey kind of after you folks decided that you guys were going to go with egg donation? What was that process like as I'm sure it wasn't straight forward either? 

00:17:10 Nicole 

Yeah, we so originally I really didn't want to just buy eggs and the laws in Canada are different when it comes to egg donation and surrogacy. So you can't pay for those services so you need to have say if we're talking egg donation, a known donor who will go through the process and donate their eggs and you would compensate and pay for any expenses related to the process of the egg donation. So the medication, the actual procedure, any tests that aren't covered by the BC medical plan, any of that, you'd be required to pay for travel, things like that. But you cannot pay the donor, a fee for donating her eggs that would be illegal. The same goes for surrogacy. So a surrogate out of the absolute goodness of their heart is doing this because they want to help somebody have the dream of having a family. You would compensate them for anything related to the surrogacy and the pregnancy. But there's no fee for the surrogacy, where down in the states, for example, you could connect with agencies and you know, there's a variety of different fees that a surrogate could collect just for the sake of being a surrogate on top of having their expenses paid so there's not an abundance of, you know, people willing to do this and it's totally understandable. It's a huge commitment. Not just for yourself, but if you have a family and you know friends and work and there's so many factors to consider so you know it's a different process and there's a lot of gray where you know it's not the guidelines are not as black and white as you might like them to be, and you know it was a bit of a challenging process in the beginning we really wanted to find somebody who would do a donation. We didn't know anyone in our circle that would do it for us. So we connected with an agency and tried to go that route and it was challenging here in BC to find clinics that would work with the agency. Because it's sort of a Gray area because it's not technically a known donor, so this idea of an anonymous donation can't exist. So we, you know, and then there was COVID. So clinics were closed and, you know, we were kind of just in a waiting game we had found someone through an agency that we were very interested in, but during that time as well, Health Canada changed their requirements and regulations and so fertility clinics had to go through and I can't even remember what it was, but there was different regulations that they had to follow to be able to work with donor eggs. And so we were kind of waiting on our clinic to go through that process and get set up and they weren't able to support. And so we tried a different clinic and it just it didn't work out and the donor eventually just decided that it wasn't right for her and we had to start all over again, so at that point we went back to the clinic we've been working with and just, you know, whatever our options to purchase eggs. And so you're purchasing out of country and it's sort of a strange process is common like online dating where you're just going through profiles and you know reading about the person and their family and family history and you know what kind of illnesses have been in the family and, you know, what are their hopes for you and why are they choosing to do this? You can see baby photos and teenager photos and them as adults, and so you can kind of scroll through and then you want to check genetics as well. And so for my partner, Mike and the donor to make sure there's nothing that, you know, would result in the baby having some sort of genetic disorders. So we, you know, landed on someone and went through the genetic counseling and everything checked out and it was very, very low risk and so you typically purchase eggs in lots of 6 and then six to seven depending. And then they would get them shipped up and then you would go through a process called ICSI, ICSI I don't know what actually stands for. But that is the embryo creation process, so rest of the purchased eggs. And came out with three embryos and that was kind of our starting point to get us to get us going, which was exciting.  

But at the same time, this whole journey has been really challenging and very emotional. I'm excited that we're moving forward. There's also that loss that you know, I'm constantly bumping up against and having to kind of grieve through as we're going and that, you know it not having a biologic like being biologically related to the child and what's that going to turn out like? And just, you know, a lot of fears around that and then, you know, just the loss of my own fertility. So, yeah, it's been a roller coaster. Who would say? And everything felt really, really tough up until we started looking for a surrogate. So we had met with a couple different agencies and kind of, you know, interviewed them learned about their program and done some research online and then we thought, you know why don't we just throw it out on social media and see what happens and you know we didn't have anyone close to us that could be a surrogate for us. So you know, there's certain requirements that you have to carried a pregnancy to full term. And you have to be under 45 and so you know, there's certain check boxes that you need to check off. But we thought, you know, why don't we just put it out in the universe and see what happens? And then, you know, if nothing, then we'll go to one of these agencies and start from there. But you know, maybe there's somebody in, you know, the peripheral of our network or in someone else's network who's connected to us, you know, that might know somebody who's wanted to do this and maybe we could just organically connect. And that's sort of what happened is there is a woman that I had connected with on Cancer connect from the Canadian Cancer Society, and she had a similar diagnosis to me and had found a post that I had posted when I first got diagnosed and connected with her and so she had seen my post on Instagram and she had twins via surrogacy. AA year and a half I think it was or about two years prior. And so, you know, I knew about that journey and, you know, she connected and shared with me from time to time throughout the pregnancies. So she saw my post and she reached out and said, you know, my surrogate wants to do this again. But they had a child prior to her being diagnosed, so they now had three because of the twins. And so they weren't looking to have any more kids and so she said can I connect to you. I was like, absolutely. And so I connected with the surrogate on zoom. And then we connected with both of our partners and had a good chat and both agreed that you know, this seemed like a good fit and she was ready to go and we were ready to go. And then we were on our way, which was amazing and felt like so effortless and it was just meant to be. And you know something, finally just came together and a non-complicated process and she had just connected with an agency and so we connected with them and they were very supportive since we had connected on our own already, they just changed the way that they would provide their support for us. And then what our initial fee would be. So yeah, it was great, you know, it worked out and the other person that she had done this for was also located in the Lower mainland, so we were using the same clinic and the same doctor and so they were familiar with her and which made things really easy and comfortable, I would say.  

So yeah, you know, we got to work with getting our contract put together. So that's a big piece of it is, is working through the surrogacy agreement and you know, having a lot of different conversations on expectations on both parts and what's important, you know, not just for us, but also for the surrogate and you know, making sure our partner is on board. And so you know we got all the tough stuff out of the way and then you know, it was time to bring her out for there's an initial screening that the surrogate would go through with the fertility clinic. So she traveled here for that and then they gave her the go ahead and started her on the medication that they needed to prep for the transfer. And then we brought her out for the transfer at the end of August, and it was before the transfer, they bring in an embryologist who talks to you about your embryo, and so he shared with us, you know, the grading of what the embryo was and it was a top graded one and that we had two more that were still frozen and I burst into tears and given you know how it had gone the first time around that we had created embryos two times, actually. I just, I don't know, I had this thought in my head that either he was going to walk in and say we thought them and none of them worked or we the third one. It’s ok and we can transfer that one. So the fact that it was the first embryo and it was, you know, of the quality it was just a miracle and we were very, very excited and the first transfer was a success. So we found out fairly quickly surrogate will go and do you know the proper blood work just to confirm. 

 
But the day before we did, she took two pregnancy tests and we set up a zoom call and she took the tests and they were both positive. So we celebrated that and then she went the next day and got the final check to say yes, that she was pregnant. And then she went back, I think was a couple weeks later and they just make sure that her hormone levels are progressing and you know things are going the way that they're going to that they should be going and everything was way up. So we had a viable pregnancy which was exciting so. 

00:31:11 Stephanie 

Oh. Oh my gosh. 

00:31:14 Nicole 

Yeah, it's been was crazy. 

00:31:17 Stephanie 

That's a big journey. Oh my gosh. And I think those little moments where things kind of just worked out and I'm so happy to hear and like kind of throughout all of these like ups and downs prior to finding the surrogate and everything. But to have this kind of final moment just like work out. I can't imagine how it must have felt for you and can you take us back to that moment when you found out that the surrogate, when your surrogate was pregnant and you talked a little bit about kind of all of the different emotions throughout this entire journey? What was that like for you and kind of the ongoing emotional journey that you've been going through up until today, after finding out that she's pregnant. 

00:32:17 Nicole 

Being very emotional just thinking about it. I mean that when we did the call, the zoom call when she took the test. I think both Mike and I were just silent. I think she asked us if we were excited. And it was just it was so shocked, like I was just so used to expecting the worst that you know, I had prepared myself for the fact that it there's a good possibility that it wouldn't gonna work on the first time and yeah. So it was just like utter shock when you know it can't be this easy. Nothing's been this easy so far. 
 And then just, you know like the realisation of it took a little while to sink in. It didn't hit us right away. We needed a few days to kind of just marinate on that and let it kind of absorb. And then, you know, immediately, once it did, very excited and just, you know, like all of everything that we've been through and all the heartache and it just, you know, it felt so good to know that we were moving forward and you know, this dream that we both had because my partner always wanted to be a parent. As well, the fact that this was going to become a reality, we were ecstatic and just also so grateful to this human is giving us this gift like there's nothing that I could say or do to make up for what she is doing for us like without her we wouldn't be having a baby in seven weeks. So it's incredible and you know women like her absolutely incredible to just give their body so selflessly to give us this gift. So yeah, there was just a lot of a lot of excitement, a lot of gratitude, an instant, like love for whatever was coming. Yeah, we were just, we've been so excited and for the first while, we really just tried to keep it. I was very, I would say, like reserved about it, where Mike was just anybody who would listen, he would tell. And you know, there's that 12 week mark that lots of people wait. Yeah, he was just like we're having a baby everybody. And I was just very protective of it. I had always thought that I would share this and just be very open about the process and when it came down to it, I just couldn't do it. 

 
And I think knowing that you know there's all kinds of possibilities for, you know, something to happen in the early stages, I just think we've gone through so much that I just didn't want to outwardly do that, so just kind of kept it till it got to a point where I felt like ok, you know, this is we're good to go we had the first ultrasound and strong heartbeat and everything was progressing and looking good and, you know, then it was kind of like relaxing and, you know, being able to share and celebrate and plan for the fact that you know there's a baby coming, so it took me a lot longer than it than it did Mike, but it got there. But I will say that like I've expected …  

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[Nicole’s dog got stuck]  00:36:50 Nicole 

He was stuck under the bed. He couldn't get out. I don't even know how he got under there. Don't podcast with the dog. 

00:36:56 Stephanie 

The only way to do it though, yeah. It adds flavor to the recording. 

00:37:01 Nicole 

I knew I should have put him in a different room before he started this. Oh my goodness. 

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00:37:13 Nicole 

So yeah, so whole journey now has been not easy, I think I've always, you know, happy and I'm excited, but it's taken up until very recently and the third trimester to get like really like that this is you know the reality of it. And I think that's normal, whether I was caring or not, but there's so many aspects of it that you know, I'm not experiencing and our surrogate is out of province. And so, you know, all the doctor's appointments and you know, I'm not going to when we check in lots and she shares photos and, you know, she texts when things are happening and she'll try and take videos of little kicks and but all those experiences that I had, you know, wanted and had anticipated, you know, for what would be in my future and, you know, what you and your partner get to go through, and doing that baby kick for the first time and you know, hearing the baby's heartbeat and, you know, all of that is done very differently. And so it's been even though it's happening at times, it doesn't really feel like it's happening because it's I'm not pregnant, so it's not really in your face every day. And if it does feel again, like there's, you know, some loss or some grieving around. What I thought this would look like, and I know once the baby comes that won't matter, but that's not the stage we're at yet. So you know, it's been kind of emotional and I've had lots of breakdowns and lots of days where I'm just like over the moon and so excited and, you know, planning the nursery and what do we need. And figuring out, you know, how do we travel to for the birth of our newborn. And so, you know it's been a bit of a roller coaster and I'd say this whole fertility journey has been, but I also didn't expect this to be. I just thought we'd it'd be kind of blissful and exciting. But you know, it's been harder on me than I thought it would be. So I'm very much looking forward to the baby getting here. So, you know it, we can just start that chapter. But yeah, I feel like it hasn't really gone the way I hoped it would, but it is what it is and, you know I'm not sure what I expected, to be honest. So yeah, that's I think I just had this, you know, this dream in my head that's been hard to kind of just let go of.  

00:40:30 Stephanie  

No, that makes a lot of sense and I think when you were getting emotional there, I was starting to get a little emotional for you and like the whirlwind of different emotions I think it just goes to show like kind of what the journey of motherhood and like the journey of becoming a parent, all of the different emotions kind of tied to that and I don't think that anyone can expect or know where that necessarily comes from, but just to acknowledge that it's real and it's normal and it's your experience. And I think that that's really powerful to be able to hold those emotions and along the way of this part of your journey, and I think that that's amazing. And again just your vulnerability to share all of this, regardless of what it is, is truly powerful and I know has a kind of peripherally, me, peripherally being kind of alongside of this part of your journey. All of the things that you've shared have illuminated a different way of understanding this whole journey to myself, and has ultimately changed kind of how I see how I see things and I think that's very powerful and amazing that you're able to share this part of your journey with us. 

00:42:18 Nicole 

Thank you for that. I think it's been really important that we do share both for Mike and I like we are very open. You know when anyone asks us and you know if they're like, oh, it's private, you don't need to talk about it. We're like nowhere. They're very much an open book and it's amazing how many people afterwards then say, you know, I had my own fertility struggles, or my sister's actually going through this or, you know, my best friend and, you know, it's so common and it's just I've had so many conversations from it, or even just people saying like I don't know anything about that like can you tell me more and wanting to hear and you know so many people being like I would have never even thought about that or considered that, you know, that would be something you'd have to think about, or so it's I think that is really important to sort of normalize it, you know, there were times where I've had, you know, comments made to me like in the workplace of, you know, when people would find out like you want to have children? Well, you might want to get on it cause like you're not getting another kind of thing and just, you know having the courage to, like, stand up and say like that that's not ok to say. And you know, here's my story, but you don't know what somebody beside you is going through. And so, you know, don't make comments like that and educating people and I've been very, you know, now that it's out at my workplace that people know that, you know, we're expecting and they chose my words very carefully of you know, when I did share and were in a virtual setting and I don't go into an office anymore, I work with people all across the country and I have very close relationships with people and but everything is done via Google Chat or Slack or, you know, Google meet so you can see, you know, the top half of me not even. So, you know, I've had people say like how are you feeling or 
 and I just, I'm like I'm not actually pregnant and this is, you know, this is my story. So and I just I feel like that's important and I didn't ever want to hide it, and we'll talk about the egg donation as well. And, you know, we'll find the best way to also share that with our child as early as we can. So it's a part of his story and how he grows up and knowing how he came into this world and why he was brought into this world and yeah. It's we, we knew early on that that's kind of how we wanted to handle this. But it is, you know, and I was trying to see if I could find this quote that I shared when I spoke at the survivorship summit. But it was around trauma and I had never really thought about this as being a type of trauma, things like fertility loss or, you know having your life, the course of your life altered due to something like cancer. You can't downplay and just you know, some people can’t. They can just adjust and you know, see that as it wasn't meant to be, but we don't all operate that way and you know it, it is very much a type of trauma and something that, you know, it's hard to grieve something you haven't actually had and that you wanted so badly, and there's no instructions for that so. It's been hard. It gets better as time goes by and once we have that little boy here, that'll be our focus and it'll have all been. But yeah, hasn't been an easy part. 

00:46:55 Stephanie 

Well, thank you so much for sharing this journey and just being so open and authentic about everything, I think that it is like with so many traumas that we as a collective society go through it is really through the storytelling and through connection and community that we find comfort. And I know that the person that is listening to this will be able to find comfort and community by listening to your story. So thank you so much for sharing and truly honored to be able to do this with you. As we wrap up we're recording this in mid March at the end of March. And I think you said that the baby comes in seven weeks, which is crazy, and I'm sure the seven weeks are going to fly by and I'm sure, there's not just one thing that you can look forward to in this next part of your journey. But where are you looking forward to in this next journey and what are you most excited about? 

00:48:13 Nicole 

I've never been so excited for poopy diapers and interrupted sleep. I will take it all, all the baby snuggles. I can't wait to actually hold him and just be here and just we're very ready for that next stage in our lives and we've got these are the nephews that you know, we get to spend time with and we've really, really enjoyed that and we'll continue to, but we're very excited to just, you know, assume the role of parents and get started with that. And so you know well, we'll take everything that we have coming for us, we have no rose colored glasses on that this is going to be easy. We've gotten all the stories from our friends, so you know, but obviously no one's really prepared for what it's like. And every baby’s different kind of the journey that we've already been through, you know, just as it comes, but yeah, and I'm very excited. And just to have him here and to hold him and yeah, to get on and almost in a way, feels like closing a bit of a chapter, a very emotional chapter. Sorry, I’m crying. But yeah, like maybe it can just finally like the heartache can end. 

00:49:59 Stephanie 

No, that makes a lot of sense. 

00:50:03 Nicole 

I tried to get through without crying. 

00:50:09 Stephanie 

Thank you for that. This has been I feel like this has been probably one of the most important episodes that we've done and I really hope that this will resonate with people and the emotions behind everything that you share. So raw and authentic and it's the story that I think is what will resonate with people, regardless of kind of who they are and where they are on their journeys of this life. 
 And so thank you so much for sharing and it's such an honor. And I'm so excited to hear where the poopy diapers and the interrupted sleep and all of the all of the baby stuff will take you and your partner. And I'm really, really just excited to kind of watch your journey and kind of hear about it every now and then as you as you kind of navigate this next part of your life and, yeah. Thank you so much. 

00:51:20 Nicole 

Thank you for suggesting this because I think it's, I do think it's really important and I do think it crosses you know, outside of cancer and it touches on a lot of people. You know, regardless of how you've come to your fertility journey, but there are a lot of struggles, and so, you know, it's a bit of a more universal topic as well, but one that we don't focus a lot on. And I do think it's really important for young adults with cancer. So you know I'm that I was able to share and I think there are some important resources that we could include in the show notes. So for anyone you know that is faced with a similar scenario, there are options for cancer patients to get a reduction in the cost of the fertility preservation, there's a charity called Fertile. And there are a variety of clinics that also are members of that charity who reduced the cost of their services as well. So you know, every little bit counts, you know, when I did my preservation there was one of the companies that had a compassion program where the jerks were free, which was also a big help. There is a few things that it could probably provide you, and there's not a ton you know you got to kind of scour through to find about the surrogacy and egg donation. But I'm also, you know, I'm open to answering people's questions, if you know if somebody really wanted to talk about her or find out more details, I guess so. We're really open about it. 

00:53:30 Stephanie 

No, we'll definitely include some of those resources and just links in the website and in the show notes and everything. And just for folks to be able to access and just to learn more about. If anyone listening would like to learn more about those resources.  

Well, thank you so much 
 
00:53:59 Nicole 

Thank you for guiding us through this one. 

00:54:09 Stephanie 

This has been great, so thank you so much. 

Outro: 

Thanks for joining us on the GOSH podcast! To learn more about the Gynaecologic Cancer Initiative and our podcast, make sure to check out our website at gynecancerinitiative.ca.