The Water Table
The Water Table
#131 | Schwartz Farms: A Business Built On Shared Purpose & Embracing Change
John Schwartz of Schwartz Farms shares his remarkable journey from a dairy farm upbringing to building a highly successful agricultural enterprise with 500 employees across multiple states.
John discusses how they've navigated the industry's volatile cycles. From the "Go-Go days" of the 1970s inflation to current biosecurity challenges like the PRRS virus to the future potential of gene-edited pigs. He offers invaluable lessons on leadership, embracing change, and the profound impact a business can have on rural communities.
Chapters:
00:00 Intro
00:14 1970s Inflation & Early Days
00:30 Welcome John Schwartz, Schwartz Farm
01:05 Farm Origins & Growth
02:03 Pig Business Evolution
03:10 Company Expansion
03:44 Biosecurity Challenges
05:47 Gene-Edited Pigs & Future
07:03 Airborne Viruses & Industry Hubs
08:44 Minnesota's Agri-Powerhouse
10:20 Weathering Cycles & Culture
11:36 The Power of Culture
12:30 Leadership, Humility & Appreciation
14:40 Growth & Culture Preservation
17:07 Employee Investment: 401K
18:28 Rural Impact
19:12 Legacy & Community
21:14 Valuing Relationships
23:53 Humility & Connection
25:09 Family Farm History
26:37 Ag Interdependence & Drainage
28:37 Rewarding Rural Impact
31:16 Sustaining Culture Amid Change
34:19 Embracing Industry Uncertainty
37:53 Final Thoughts: Opportunity & Attitude
Related content:
- #40 | Family Business Series: Insight and Advice From a Family Business Coach
- #39 | Family Business Series: Relationships and the General Transfer of Knowledge
- #38 | Building a Strong Business Culture
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John Schwartz (00:00):
And it was a lesson to look at more the positive side of change. I think it's just so powerful to have a culture. I think it's underestimated. It's something that I put a lot of value on these relationships. The huge inflation rush of the 1970s and what they referred to as the go-go days in farm expanded quite a bit and with the help of a lot of good people that we surrounded ourselves with.
Jamie Duininck (00:29):
Well, welcome to the Water Table podcast. Today I have a special guest on John Schwartz with Schwartz Farm. I've known John for about five years and have gotten to spend some time with him in different settings. And John's quite a remarkable guy and has a really remarkable story about his family business. They're in the swine industry. In southern Minnesota is where they're headquartered. And John, why don't you just tell us a little bit about that, your business and how you got your start, and I'll ask you some questions.
John Schwartz (01:04):
Sure. Thanks, Jamie. Yeah. We, as Jamie said, are located down by Sleepy Eye, Minnesota in southern Minnesota and was raised. My brother Joe and I started our business. We were raised on a dairy farm outside of Sleepy Eye. Two of nine children, which was very common in that generation, in that day and age in our community. And we started crop farming in the late '70s, early '80s and was a very good learning experience to start at that time because that was coming off of the huge inflation rush of the 1970s and what they referred to as the go-go days in farming when prices took off. And that was followed by the 1980s land sell off, which was caused by a lot of over leveraged land and that type of thing. So we learned a lot of good lifelong lessons, I think in that timeframe.
(02:07):
And we continued to crop farm until I started our pig business. My brother and I started and I ran the pig business. My brother Mark joined us in the late '80s. And the industry was evolving and changing a lot. It was changing from producers using their livestock operations as a sideline to more of a specialization, which started more in the southeastern part of the country and was somewhat controversial because producers weren't used to ... We were independent and not used to contract growing and this type of thing. So it was an opportunity and it was a lesson to look at more the positive side of change than to be afraid of it and to find out where you can fit in it.
(02:56):
So we eventually started working with a lot of good contract growers that raised pigs for us, contract families, and grew with some. Mostly by acquisition of existing farms. We ultimately did end up building some more of our own. And so we have become where we've now located and we have sows in a few different states and about 500 employees. And so we've expanded quite a bit with the help of a lot of good people that we surrounded ourselves with and some good fortune we got to where we are today.
Jamie Duininck (03:33):
Yeah. Yeah. And you're working now when you say a few different states, mostly like Kansas, Nebraska, South Dakota, maybe a little and then Minnesota of course.
John Schwartz (03:44):
Yeah. We've put some sows in Kansas. From a health standpoint there's less hog density there. And most of the pigs are finished in southern Minnesota, Northwest Iowa, a few in South Dakota, but our sow farms are in Minnesota, South Dakota, Nebraska, and most recently Kansas.
Jamie Duininck (04:06):
Talk a little bit about ... In your industry, it's pretty common knowledge, but I don't know how many people from your specific industry actually listen to The Water Table. It's pretty specific to water management and drainage, but talk a little bit about the biosecurity risks and the why behind moving out of certain areas and talk about those areas.
John Schwartz (04:26):
Right. Pigs are quite susceptible to certain diseases, particularly one that's called the PRRS virus. P-R-R-S. It stands for porcine respiratory and reproductive syndrome, and it's the type of virus that mutates and it's hard to create a vaccine for it. There really is not a good vaccine for it. And it's most devastating to reproductive to sow farms. So for that reason, we've tried to move sows in more isolated areas, farther distance from other pigs. And so we do a lot of things for biosecurity. We filter farms, filter the air coming in, have real strict rules as far as tools coming and people showering in and out and that type of thing. Nobody comes into a farm without taking a shower and wearing the clothes that are on the farm. So there's a lot of biosecurity protocol that we use and it helps, but still it's been a challenge.
(05:29):
One thing most recently that has been approved by the FDA just in the past couple of months, PIC, which is one of the largest genetic companies in the world, has developed a PRRS resistant pig through gene editing this CRISPR technology. And so that is a pig that they somehow eliminated the receptor for the virus and it's approved now by the FDA. The next step is going to be make sure that there's consumer acceptance both domestically and foreign. That could be a real game changer, a real disruptor, because that would be a huge, huge change for the industry.
Jamie Duininck (06:15):
And it also will be left to be seen how accepted that'll be and in what timeframe? It could be quickly or it could be-
John Schwartz (06:26):
Right. I know that the companies are doing some consumer surveys now and they sound optimistic, but it'll take a while to know. It'll take five to 10 years before it's probably practically available for the industry either way just to get enough of it in the industry.
Jamie Duininck (06:43):
Yeah. Yeah. So with something like PRRS, it's also an airborne virus, correct. So you can have all these different security measures on your farm and yet it may or may not help in a lot of cases, correct?
John Schwartz (07:02):
Right. Right. And my understanding of airborne is the virus needs to attach itself to something, a particle of dust or something to go airborne. But even with all the air filtration systems that we've put in, we still break more often with the disease than what we think is sustainable. So we're looking for other options on that.
Jamie Duininck (07:26):
And just again, for those that wouldn't have a good understanding of your industry ... And I guess I wouldn't know this either. But what percentage of the pigs that are growing in America are growing in that southern Minnesota, Iowa and that real dense area?
John Schwartz (07:47):
I should know the exact answer, but the Midwest, Minnesota is the second largest pork-producing state in the country after Iowa. Iowa is by far the largest. But my guess is if you drew a circle from southern Minnesota into Indiana and down into Missouri and Nebraska and South Dakota, that would probably encompass 80 plus percent of what's raised. North Carolina is still ... They're the third largest hog-producing state or pork-producing state, but it's not a very ideal part of the world to raise pigs. They started there and specialized, but they don't have many advantages from a climate and feed price standpoint. There are some innovators that specialized in pork production back then, but it's not growing. I think it might even be shrinking somewhat there.
Jamie Duininck (08:44):
Yeah. I can't remember which congressional district you're in. I know you're right on the border, but are you in seven?
John Schwartz (08:52):
Michelle Fischbach.
Jamie Duininck (08:53):
Yeah. So you're in seven. And so these are a little bit old statistics, but maybe five, six years ago reading some of this. It's pretty interesting. I don't think people in the country really recognize when you say Minnesota's the second-largest pork producer. The seventh district in Minnesota with corn and soybeans ranks way up there too from if you rank them by congressional districts. You would think every district in Iowa would be ahead and that's just not true. It's a very significant agricultural district and it runs from the Iowa border to the Canadian border along the western side of Minnesota.
(09:33):
But when you look at hogs and turkeys and corn and soybeans and sugar beets, it ranks in the top five in a lot of those.
John Schwartz (09:33):
It's big.
Jamie Duininck (09:44):
Yeah. So interesting for people to hear that because I think that would be one you'd get stumped on if you didn't know. Think of lakes and woods when you think of Minnesota. In your career, it's been, like you say, from ... Really remarkable when you think about it from starting when you're a younger guy in 1980 or 1979 and where we're at today to have 500 employees and the journey that that was and in your industry have I've come to learn, there's a lot of ups and downs. It's pretty cyclical. So you weathered a lot of storms too. I heard you say a few years ago, things are going pretty good in your industry right now, but a few years ago it wasn't so good. I heard you quote, when you're walking through hell just keep walking. I've learned a lot of those little one liners from you that I enjoy repeating.
(10:49):
But I think what I wanted to really talk about, because a lot of our listeners are business owners that own their own water management business and agriculture, and they have a few employees and they're thinking about how do I make my business better? One of the things that's always been impressed on me is the culture of Schwartz Farms and how that starts with you and your brother and just how you started your business to be successful, but probably didn't imagine it getting to where it is today. And you have tons of opportunity in front of you still today. So let's just talk about that. How do you think about culture, first of all, just in general and why is it important?
John Schwartz (11:35):
Well, I think it is really important or the most important thing in a business because we all in my own position and others like myself, aren't necessarily good at a lot of things. We may have some vision and some good foresight on entrepreneurially, this type of thing, but we need a team of people, team members to buy into what you're doing and to do what you're not good at. And I think I personally have always felt that there's many strengths I don't have, but one strength I probably have had is knowing who to surround myself with. I'm not a great detail person and as far as titles and companies of CEO and this type of thing, I've been very honest. I wouldn't be a good candidate for a CEO for any other company. I'd have to have my own company do that because there's many things I wouldn't be qualified to do from a standpoint of some of the details. And I think that if you treat your people right, they'll go to great lengths for you to make your company successful. And you have to make sure you treat them in a way that they know and you appreciate what they're doing.
(13:05):
And in a family business I think is so important. I've really stressed to our next generation that having the empathy and the humility to realize that we may have some good fortune or made some good decisions in our business that have helped us to get to where we are, but that really doesn't make us better than anybody else. We're just fortunate in the way that we have surrounded ourselves with good people and we want to keep on supporting those people. And I think that's what it's really all about is having the empathy to understand what your team members and employees and independent contractors go through and support them. And in turn, I think it'll create a culture ... And it's more difficult as you grow. That's one thing I've been concerned about. I'm obviously getting somewhat to the twilight of my career of making a lot of the decisions. And I've really emphasized to the next generation that it's important to ... You can't practically get to all these people all the time, but if you treat the people in the org chart in the way that you would hope to, hopefully that will pass down through the company. And I think so far we've done a good job of that. I think it is just so powerful to have a culture. I think it's underestimated how much good that will do for a company compared to some other areas of strategies and efficiencies.
Jamie Duininck (14:40):
Yeah. I appreciate your answer. I was going to ask you, and you answered it without me asking. What is John Good at because John doesn't ... You very seldom talk about yourself. You very seldom boast about things. The answer there was surrounding yourself with the right people. I know you and I have talked about that. I think about that too in my own area of responsibility at Prinsco, just around how do we keep going? I think it's in our nature to keep growing. It's fun to grow. It's fun to be thinking about that thing. But at the same time, the fear of losing what you have from the culture standpoint and all the equity that's in that, it's pretty amazing. When you lose that, you lose a lot. You lose more than you realize. And so can we continue to grow and continue to build the same culture?
(15:34):
It is about people. It is about how you treat people, but then about having the right people, like you said, because without you do get to where you can't touch everybody, your point there earlier. And you need those others to do that. I hope some of your employees listen to this podcast and hear me say too, how you've done a great job of selecting really good people. Everyone I've met there is just very impressive. And how they also model the behavior, model the behavior that you modeled. So well done on that.
John Schwartz (16:14):
Yeah. Thank you. And as you grow ... And I think I've said before too, a weakness, I guess it can be a weakness and a strength, but I've never been a real long-term planner. Maybe a responder to opportunities. And that's been good. At the same time, it doesn't always help plan your personal life too much. And you do occasionally stop and say, "Well, where is this going and why?" You have to watch out what you hope for sometimes. And I think it gets to the point ... And I'm sure in any business where you realize it's not for yourself, it's for the communities you operate in for the employees. One thing we have done, Sheila and HR a number of years ago signed up everybody for our 401K match automatically, and that increased our 401K participation by about 25% because some people just don't get around to doing it.
(17:13):
Now, some people have said to me, that's not real smart. Why do you want to increase your costs? I really think the middle class and the working class, one of their best opportunities of getting ahead is being involved in equity markets and that's their best chance to do that. So we think it's the right thing to do. And those are the type of things I think that if you can look beyond your own bottom line personally and what's good for the company and the people, the communities you're operating in, it gets to the point where that's why you're doing it in my mind.
Jamie Duininck (17:49):
Yeah. And just from the first time I had the opportunity to walk in the doors at your business and meet the team, the things like that, that was one of the first things that I was exposed to was the match and the participation that you had, which was really significant. And then you think of it from the perspective of the environment that a lot of your employees have to work in. And to me it was really quite inspiring to see you got a lot of happy employees. It's not an easy place to work. It's not an easy job to do. And so when you combine those two things, you're going to be doing this work and you're happy. It's inspiring. So you guys have done really well with that. I'm happy I can share that here because I'm proud of it.
(18:44):
When you talk about Schwartz Farms and you're in a small community and you grew up in Sleepy Iowa ... Was it five, 6,000 people?
John Schwartz (18:45):
3000.
Jamie Duininck (18:55):
3000. Yeah. Okay. And you know everybody and like everybody else, there's people that probably don't like John Schwartz. I'm sure there isn't very many. But what do you hope people say about you or about maybe about Schwartz Farms and maybe you personally?
John Schwartz (19:14):
In any business in agriculture there, there's stress and controversy with change. Everybody in our industry, not just ourselves, has gone through the battles of the change and what's accepted in the communities compared to what it used to be. I've always said there's a big difference between nostalgia. I like to look back at when we had four hardware stores on Main Street and that type of thing. That's fun to look back at, but that's not what we have today. It wasn't what the prior generation before those people had either. Change is constant. So I think that as time goes on, people accept the change more and realize why the industries and businesses do what they do. But ultimately, I'm sure we've made mistakes. I know we've made mistakes. I know I've made mistakes and probably stepped on some people's toes, but ultimately I hope they realize that what our company does, what our family business is in is a good thing for the communities to operate in. And that we tried to stick to our core values of integrity and doing things right. That's probably the most important to me is not so much ...
(20:41):
We've never expanded for the sake of expansion. I think it's always important ... Ego can get in the way of good business decisions. And anytime we've expanded, it's hopefully to be more efficient, to be able to supply our customers who are the Packers we sell to, with what they need. And honestly to offer more opportunities to team members, employees, and contractors that are in a company. And ultimately hope people can look at it and say that was good.
Jamie Duininck (21:14):
Yeah. Yeah. So one of the things I want to ask you, and it's a little bit off the ... We've talked a little bit before about what we talk about. But one of the things that you don't lead with, you lead with humility for sure, and your whole company does, but is just the word relationships. But when I am involved in anything or see what's going on and just the relationships that are internal amongst employees and then relationships with vendors and with Packers and things like that, it's a really important thing at Schwartz Farms. And talk about what does relationships mean to John Schwartz?
John Schwartz (22:00):
Well, I think that's what really motivates me. I think that's something that I put a lot of value on is relationships with the processors we sell to, to the vendors that we buy from, the independent contractors we work with. I truly believe I've learned to understand that life is not a zero-sum game. For example, a lot of our feed in our industry ... Feeds our biggest cost of production and we mill about 30% of our own feed now. The rest is still, we work with contract, mostly cooperatives that have feed mills that procure the corn and what we call toll milling. They custom grind mix to our specifications. And those have been relationships that have gone on for years and mostly just handshake relationships or haven't been contract signed.
(23:01):
We know we need to be competitive, but yet we hope that these people like to see us coming the door that it's not ... You can be competitive, I think, and with your pricing and yet develop good long-term relationships. It's important to know the processes we deal with everything's relative when it comes to size, and we are a rounding error compared to most of the processes that we sell to. And yet I think we've been able to develop good relationships by sticking to our agreements if we sign an agreement with them. They aren't always on our side. Sometimes we've been in agreements that were outdated from the time we started them, and the pricing didn't reflect what was probably the most equitable for our side of the industry. Still we stuck to the agreements.
[NEW_PARAGRAPH]And what I've learned about, when you mentioned earlier about humility, I used to get confused about that. My wife's a master at keeping people humble, almost to a fault she's so good at it. But I used to get confused. It meant that you're downtrodden or something. But I think what it really means is that everybody's the same. Okay. So this executive at XYZ Worldwide Corporation, yeah, he's in a higher level position than I am, but really myself and him and maybe even the homeless person, we're all the same. We have different breaks and that type of thing. And I think if you understand that, it puts you all on the same level. And that really helps you know how to deal with people and to feel confident dealing with people no matter what level they're at.
Jamie Duininck (24:44):
Yeah. Yeah. No. I appreciate that. I just asked that because it's just very prevalent in you and in your family, how I've been able and been privileged to meet your children and your nephews. It just exudes from you guys. And I think that behavior was probably modeled to you before from your parents. Go back a little bit, I should have probably stayed on this when we were talking about your history a little bit, but growing up with nine siblings or eight siblings and you ... I was not aware of it, you having a dairy farm. But when did the dairy farm close or when did you guys stop milking?
John Schwartz (25:35):
Dad sold a dairy farm, the cows, I believe in 1984. And that coincided with when the last sons left and went off to college. But dairy has changed dramatically. Every farm in our neighborhood had dairy cows and that changed. But yeah, it was a fun upbringing. It was good. It was just a different time then today. But yeah, 1984 I believe is when we-
Jamie Duininck (26:07):
Where did you line up in the-
John Schwartz (26:09):
I was number four. We had one older brother had passed away young from cancer, so I was number three of the remaining children. So yeah. There's about a 22-year age spread from oldest to youngest I believe.
Jamie Duininck (26:26):
I was just thinking as you're talking here, I got to treat you well on here because you know who I really need to interview on here is your mother.
John Schwartz (26:35):
Yeah. You should do that. You should do that. Yeah.
Jamie Duininck (26:36):
Well, we'll see if we can get that done.
John Schwartz (26:39):
She'll be 96. And just to change of gears little bit, your industry is important to us too. The livestock industry depends on, obviously the corn growing industry tremendously. And that's become ... I don't think the world always realizes how tight the supplies can really be. We raise a 14 billion or 15 billion bushel crop, whatever the record is, and the crop gets bigger every year. But what we refer to as a stocks to use ratio with the biofuels industry and the corn sweetener industry and the livestock feed industry and the exports, it can it get to be a fight for corn certain years. Corn as a high percentage of our costs, and of course the more consistency with drainage in the fields ... And we purchase the vast majority of the corn that we feed. We raise some corn, but it's a small percent of what we feed. So we're always trying to hedge risk off with the futures and this type of thing.
(27:47):
When it comes to basis, it's hard. You can't do much about basis. And if you don't have a corn supply in your area, in the area of your feed mills, it gets to be tough. It's really not in this industry, nobody ... We're all dependent on other segments of the industry. That's a big deal. And drainage, along with everything else that's changed, the genetics and everything else is hopefully making that more consistent than it used to be.
Jamie Duininck (28:13):
Yeah. Yeah. Growing more bushels. As you were talking earlier just about local area and relationships, I was connecting the same thing. And I think what really drives me about being passionate about the drainage industry is I think the same thing that drives you around the impact you can have in rural America. And you probably can have the same impact, but it's much easier to see in rural America. I like to say in the water management business, we sell a product that gets installed in a field that grows more bushels to feed the world. When growing more bushels, it means the farmer puts more money in his pocket. When he puts more money in his pocket. Farmers hate to say this, but they do have to pay taxes. When they pay taxes, then that goes to good things. Not everything's great, but it does go to building infrastructure or roads and local communities, school referendums. You can build churches and hospitals and all that. In rural America.
(29:20):
Man, if you can be part of that chain and being part of that, it's very rewarding. And with the impact that you guys can have by the amount of feed you buy and the different co-ops you work with, and think of all the employees that are affected by that in a positive way and get a paycheck and can raise a family and can meet some of their dreams. So it's pretty satisfying and rewarding.
John Schwartz (29:49):
The other thing that's changed, Jamie, in the past 20, 30 years has been the value added locally with the corn crop. When I started farming, really the major market was trains, shuttle trains for export or to send it to southeast or to the big feedlots down south. And now the grain merchandisers are shipping far less trains and used to, because the majority is used locally between livestock and bio biofuels and this type of thing. You don't always see that but the basis of corn has tightened a lot in the past 20 years for that reason. It used to be a big, big ... Between the Mississippi River and our location was a huge discount because it was either barges or train. So that's positive for rural America also.
Jamie Duininck (30:44):
Yeah. For sure. So one thing, I'd hate to say it, but you said it earlier as you're getting the twilight of your career, and so I wouldn't mention that unless you did, but you did. And from outside or looking in, you got a very capable management team and a highly engaged ownership of the next generation. You got a lot of them. And they're all wanting to continue the legacy, which is really exciting and neat. But as you think about that, I know that there's considerations in your mind as you're thinking about the future, but think ahead a little further. And when you're thinking about the culture that you've built over time, what's it going to take to sustain that 10, 15, 20 years down the road after John is not around every day?
John Schwartz (31:42):
Well, I think it could be earlier than that Jamie even. But I think the culture-
Jamie Duininck (31:48):
But it will sustain itself for a while anyway, right?
John Schwartz (31:51):
And the culture should be able to be sustained. You can adapt to changes in the world. And there's so many changes coming that ... We talk about or hear about artificial intelligence and different things that will change how we do business and where employees are and how they're employed, what jobs it might replace and different things. But I think if you stick to your basic core values and principles of your culture, you can adapt to the changes that are out there and still keep the culture in place. And it will take a lot of effort. It doesn't just happen. You can't take your eye off of the wall in any area. Anybody in my, I've mentioned that I surround myself with really good people or we have as a company I should say, and yet I'm still responsible for knowing what's going on. You have to trust the right people, know that they're on the right track. And the next generation will have to keep on doing that. They can't take their eye off the ball from a cultural standpoint and make sure that we have that correct culture that keeps on helping us bring the right people that want to work for us and be part of our team but also at the same time, be open-minded to change in the industries that we're involved in. And it could even be diversification.
(33:18):
We don't know the changes that are coming, but one thing I do know, you have to embrace change. You can't fight it, or you'll be left behind. No matter how good your culture is you still have to be able to be adaptable to all the changes that are out there. And so the next generation will have their share of challenges. There won't be any less than what we have, that's for sure. But I think they're up for it. We got a great team and I think they're excited about moving forward, and I'm excited to see them do it.
Jamie Duininck (33:56):
Yeah. Another curveball for you that I didn't talk to you about, but as you're talking and talking about change, and I think you're really good at this. I think it's in the culture of Schwartz Farms, because that industry changes so quickly that you have to be that way. But young people today, it seems like more and more ... I feel like I was this way when I was young, but more and more young people today want certainty in life. They want to know this is how things are going to go if I take that job or if I decide to do this. Life isn't certain for sure. I think when the economy's been stable that probably creeps into society more. How do you think about certainty and the fact that you have a plan? You do have a plan, this is where we're going. But things often don't go according to plan.
John Schwartz (34:58):
Definitely. If young people are on certainty ... And you're correct, I think in a lot of cases they do, but they would be in the wrong business in our business because it's extremely volatile. Since the years we've worked together, you've seen the swings and the changes. And that's why it takes in our industry lenders and the whole team has to understand the cyclical nature of the business and not predictable, cyclical nature. It can change in a hurry. I think that's one thing experience does for you. It makes you realize that it is cyclical. And when everybody thinks it'll never come back again, it will. I believe the young people in our organization understand that. That it's a matter of when times are bad ... I've always stressed when times are good, don't get sloppy, just keep on keeping your cost of production line, that type of thing. And when they're bad, same thing just minimize your losses. And so in a business like we are in the international politics, geopolitical situations, we export about 30% of what we raise in this country, pork products. And so some of the rhetoric that has been going on in the past several months has caused some huge swings in the market. Fortunately, our major customer, Mexico has been still buying aggressively from us so the prices have been quite stable.
(36:42):
I think really what in our industry, what the younger generation has to do is look at the long, long haul, the long picture, the long view. And in your business, our business, all of our private businesses, that's an advantage we have. We don't have the quarterly calls where stockholders ask why you haven't made profit that quarter. There are decisions we need to make that are for the long haul, not for the next six months or next year. It's for 5, 10, 15 years even from now.
(37:15):
But the certainty of our industry is we do a lot of things with derivatives, futures and things to try and pass off risk, which I think is extremely important. However, even with that, there's enough biological issues and things that can happen that nothing is for sure. But I think you just have to know that if you're going to be the best at it, you'll survive. And I think one thing I've learned too is that past success can be your biggest enemy. If you just think because what you did last year was successful, that you can sit on your laurels and you had a good year, that's not going to work. You'll be run out of business. I looked a while back, the Successful Farming for years has put together a list of the top sow farms in the country based on a number of sows, which is not that meaningful. But back in 1994, I think out of the top 30 or whatever, there's about five companies that are still remaining. And that's how volatile the business has been and how many people have failed at it. So you got to be good at it, and you got to realize that you have to be able to live through the bad times.
Jamie Duininck (38:26):
Yep. Yep. Yep. I appreciate it. There's a lot of nuggets, this podcast that I think I'm going to go back and listen to and take from and I hope that our listeners do also, and I think they will. What do you want to leave us with, John? Just around thinking about your career. We talked about that you're a cultural guy, you're a relationship guy, you have a lot of empathy for others. When you consider that you'll be transitioning into a different stage in life here pretty soon, what would you want people to know about you or about how they should operate in their careers?
John Schwartz (39:16):
Well, I think I enjoy business. I love business, and I find it motivating, and I think a lot of people do. I think it's easy to become pessimistic sometimes. We have interns come into our company, and I always remind them how many ... I think the opportunities, especially in rural America, are fantastic. And no matter what people think of our business or my business or your business, there are tremendous opportunities out there for people that want to take responsibility, who want to take a few chances. A lot of it's just a matter of attitude, of trying to look at the positive and things and look at where your strengths are, and being honest with yourself to realize where your strengths aren't, where you need that help and support. But if you do that and if your goal is to start a business or have a good position in a business, if you're willing to take on responsibility and have a good attitude, I think the potential is really, really great.
Jamie Duininck (40:29):
Yeah. Yep. I agree. I agree. We'll leave it with that. John, thanks for joining the water table today and talking a little bit about yourself and your family business.
John Schwartz (40:38):
Thanks, Jamie.
