The Water Table
The Water Table
Preserving the soil profile with v-plow installs
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Kyle Whitcomb was nine years old when his grandpa started teaching him about the family business. He now runs that business, Whitcomb Farm Drainage, out of Lake Lillian, Minnesota. He’s focused on meeting his customers’ needs, and one way he does that is by using a v-plow to install pattern tiling. This approach minimizes disturbance to the soil, reducing ruts and erosion while preserving topsoil and nutrients.
Kyle shares what he’s learned from years of using this trenchless installation method, talks through its pros and cons, what beet farmers especially love about it, and why it’s more commonly used in Europe. On a more personal note, Kyle shares a little about being the third generation in his family to run the business, the paths his siblings have taken, and what the future might look like for his family and business.
Chapters:
00:00 Introduction
01:30 Why a v-plow?
03:54 Comparing field heal times
04:40 Pattern tiling in no-till systems
06:00 Why beet farmers love v-plow installation
07:25 V-plow vs straight shank plow
09:30 The future of v-plowing in ag drainage
12:24 Variations and popularity in Europe
14:17 Kyle’s custom intake boxes
19:00 The legacy of the Whitcomb family business
Related Content:
- #127: Cover Crops and No-Till: A Conservationist’s Perspective
- #97: Stay Curious– Life Lessons from One Contractor to Another
- V-Plow for Victory in Rut Reduction
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Kyle Whitcomb (00:00):
We are a service industry. At the end of the day, that is our job. We're providing a service. That's what they want. That's what they need. It helps them out. It keeps their soil better. There is less erosion and we've had a lot of positive feedback on just guys saying that, "Yeah, we would rather have that." Working in it is easier. We keep all our soil on top. If you're trying to do no-till and you just got a couple strings of tile in there, it's going to be a little bit of a rough ride for you.
Jamie Duininck (00:36):
Welcome to The Water Table Podcast. Today, I have Kyle Whitcomb with me. Kyle's a third-generation farm drainage contractor. He's pretty much been working in the business his whole life.
Kyle Whitcomb (00:48):
Since I was nine years old with grandpa.
Jamie Duininck (00:50):
Yeah. Yep. And so, it's fun to have you, Kyle, a local guy here in the West Central Minnesota area, so knowing you a while and know your family and your business. And we had, a few years ago, we did a little feature on your V-plow as something unique in the industry. Was that four or five years ago?
Kyle Whitcomb (01:11):
It was about three, four years ago, I believe. Yes.
Jamie Duininck (01:13):
And it was pretty new to you at the time and thought it would just be fun to do a little podcast and talk about how it's going, what you're up to with the V-plow, how it's getting used, what are the impressions of it of farmers that you're working for. So, maybe start by just explaining to the audience what is a V-plow and the difference between a V-plow and a normal farm drainage plow?
Kyle Whitcomb (01:38):
So, a V-plow basically takes the big wedge of dirt, picks the entire thing up and keeps all those soil horizons consistent. You keep your topsoil on top, you keep your clay from mixing up into everything, whereas straight shank is you do get some soil disturbance on the horizons. They mix up a little bit.
(02:02):
And not only that, it's more or less it takes about a year for that field to heal up to what it should be instead of that about three-year range for just a straight shank. There are some limitations. It takes a bit more planning. There is a little more time that goes into getting that field set up correctly and it is only a four-inch attachment, so that's all you can run through it.
(02:26):
So, all your mains and submains, they are going to be with the straight shank, but we've done about a thousand acres with it and we've had a lot of positive feedback on just guys saying that, "Yeah, we would rather have that." Working in it is easier. We keep all our soil on top, even just spraying and keeping the inputs where they should be instead of getting that mixed up dirt.
Jamie Duininck (02:50):
Yeah. And when you're talking, just back up a little bit, but the four-inch attachment, the vast majority of tiling is done as your four inches your lateral.
Kyle Whitcomb (03:00):
Yes, I mean, you're doing 99% of your stuff. You're doing four-inch.
Jamie Duininck (03:05):
Yeah. And when you're scratching the ground, it's a few places where there's a main, but the most, like you're saying, 90% of those-
Kyle Whitcomb (03:11):
Which if you tend those really good, you can get away with not noticing that too.
Jamie Duininck (03:16):
Yeah. Yeah. And again, for those that aren't as familiar with the elements, a lot of fields with the four-inch laterals, you're talking every 40 feet, 60 feet, 40 feet, somewhere in that range.
Kyle Whitcomb (03:30):
Yep, 40 to 60 seems to be about average around here.
Jamie Duininck (03:32):
So, if you're going across a 40 or an 80, which would be probably the common size jobs you have, you're talking about a lot of disturbance that's happening.
Kyle Whitcomb (03:44):
Yeah, there's a lot of disturbance when you're using a straight shank and high like it myself just for taking my trucks over the thing because I'm not bottoming those out every time.
Jamie Duininck (03:54):
And what do you think in that disturbance that's happening, say it takes a year, you're working for a lot of no-till guys on that.
Kyle Whitcomb (03:54):
Yep.
Jamie Duininck (04:02):
We can talk about that in a minute, but is it really just the freeze thaw cycle and some moisture that's bringing it back to-
Kyle Whitcomb (04:09):
It's pretty much just that freeze thaw cycle. And if you get a decent amount of snow and some good rain before you get out there and work it, it's basically taking it back down to pretty close to natural because it just lifts it up in a big wedge, puts it right back down where it needs to be. That top is all fluffed up and broken up without spilling it all out to the side. So, really it heals back amazing compared to just the normal straight shank.
Jamie Duininck (04:40):
And I know one of the reasons why you ended up with it or decided to go the V-plow route and have an opportunity for people to... Because you do straight shank too, right?
Kyle Whitcomb (04:54):
Yep. We do straight shank also.
Jamie Duininck (04:55):
But add that to your business was the no-till guys.
Kyle Whitcomb (05:00):
Yeah. I noticed they were leaving a fair amount of crop if they weren't working everything down, which a lot of those no-till guys, once they get into it, they don't want to work it after you've done everything. They use a pattern tile system as, "Well, we're going to break up the ground with this pattern tile system." We'll get a little bit of aeration back in the soil. We'll take that hard pack back out a little bit, then we'll farm it for a while again.
Jamie Duininck (05:30):
Yeah. And we are starting to see a little bit more cross country for sure, but even in this area, no-till. And I think what you're saying too is with if you want the aeration in no-till, you really need the pattern tiling.
Kyle Whitcomb (05:45):
You need to have a comprehensive plan. And if you're tiling already, it does work in pretty well to plan in your pattern tile systems with your no-till systems and work those in conjunction with each other.
Jamie Duininck (05:58):
Yep. So, talking about no-till, what other types of projects have you done that this works really well on?
Kyle Whitcomb (06:10):
A lot of edible beans, situation fields, beet farmers, they will get ahold of us a lot of them the year before they even decide to put beets in, they'll say, "Hey, I want a pattern tile system put in, but I would like the V-plow." Because when you're going over that field, however many times they spray a beet farm, which is quite a few, they say, "No, we do a light working and we can just go with our sprayers at a normal rate. We're not slowing down every 40 to 60 feet just to get over that bit of a dip."
Jamie Duininck (06:44):
And for those that have seen a beet field when it's worked and ready to go and probably sprayed, you don't really know when they're spraying them before when it's just coming up.
Kyle Whitcomb (06:55):
They're spraying them. They don't want to slow down.
Jamie Duininck (06:59):
But it looks like your lawn if you're seeding a lawn. I mean, it's just perfect. So, for those that don't know it, the sprayers too, and they're going across the field, they're not going two miles an hour. I mean, they're [inaudible 00:07:13].
Kyle Whitcomb (07:13):
No, they're moving.
Jamie Duininck (07:14):
So, they want something that's not going to have to hit that every, I mean, it would really feel-
Kyle Whitcomb (07:20):
Which I wouldn't want to have them [inaudible 00:07:22].
Jamie Duininck (07:22):
Of course, of course. So, from an operation standpoint as an operator of the V-plow, what do you see as some of the positives and maybe negatives around compared to the traditional shank plow?
Kyle Whitcomb (07:40):
Some of the positives are, we are a service industry, at the end of the day, that is our job. We're providing a service. So, that works in that's what they want. That's what they need. It helps them out. It keeps their soil better. There is less erosion when you get on them deep side hills, and also we're controlling that a little bit better. And I think just the time to not have to manage that farm for them two to three years of straight shank and getting that thing back up to exactly what it should be on the surface, I think that's a big deal for them.
(08:19):
Some of the negatives on my end are it does take a little more planning. We are limited towards depth, which I like to get most of my tile lines about foot into the clay layer anyways, because anything beyond that takes a lot longer for the soil to move that water. So, you got to take a lot more planting.
(08:42):
There might be a few more submains here or there. Everything's got to hit those marks where it's three and a half, four feet deep, does take a little more fuel because she's a little heavier and she pulls a little harder. But I think really it does offset in the long run for us to provide that service.
Jamie Duininck (09:01):
Yeah. Do you see any conditions in which it gets harder too, like if it's too wet or too dry, does it get really hard to pull when it gets really dry?
Kyle Whitcomb (09:11):
She's really dry. It does take quite a bit more to pull the thing. And if you got a no-till field where they're leaving quite a bit of corn stubble, you got to plant around that a little bit too because there will be a bit of a clogging issue if it starts to pile up in the front of it.
Jamie Duininck (09:30):
Yeah. What do you see as the future for, I mean, is there very many other people around the country going the V-plow route or offering it and what do you think that-
Kyle Whitcomb (09:42):
We're the only ones in Minnesota that have been running it consistently. I think we might be the only ones in Minnesota that have one. I know we were one of the first ones that bought one in the area. There's a guy in the Dakotas, but I have seen them. Yeah, they are popping up more and more. There are more guys that are offering the V-plow system because everybody's calling it a low disturbance tile pattern system. So, they are starting to gain in popularity.
Jamie Duininck (10:09):
Yeah. We talked offline a little bit about the whole no-till situation and we should get a no-till farmer on the podcast at some point, but from your perspective on that, you see that that's going to continue to grow?
Kyle Whitcomb (10:28):
I think it's going to be to the point where, yeah, it will start continuing to grow. And it might be a hybrid system. It might not be straight no-till. It could be a lot of light tillage, maybe skipping every other year or something like that and letting that biomass on the top build up. But it's what works for everybody. I mean, some guys are still, they're still plowing stuff up and that's what works for them.
Jamie Duininck (10:53):
And I think if you're going to, from what I can tell and knowing a few of these guys to really understand how it's going to work for you, you got to be consistent on it for a while because-
Kyle Whitcomb (11:05):
Yeah, you have to do it for a while. It's not like everything in life, it's not a silver bullet that's going to take care of something right off the bat. It's something you got to try and you got to see if that's actually going to work with your system.
Jamie Duininck (11:19):
Yeah. And you get different springs, different falls.
Kyle Whitcomb (11:21):
Oh yeah.
Jamie Duininck (11:22):
And if you're committed to it, you can plan for that and whether it's drainage systems, whether it's how you're going to do your drainage, all of those things combined and you need to have several years where you get those different weather patterns to really know.
Kyle Whitcomb (11:42):
Everybody should have a drainage plan every year regardless.
Jamie Duininck (11:44):
Yeah. But where you really know how your yields are going to be with a no-till, if you go off from, "I'm going to try it one year and oh, that didn't work well."
Kyle Whitcomb (11:53):
Yeah, it's not a consistent-
Jamie Duininck (11:54):
That doesn't-
Kyle Whitcomb (11:55):
It's not enough information to make a consistent assessment of what a no-till really is.
Jamie Duininck (12:02):
Right. So, you're going to keep this as part of your offering and ability to market who you are with the V-plow?
Kyle Whitcomb (12:15):
Oh, for sure. Like I said, I think it's definitely an asset when you're getting into a drainage industry to have something like this.
Jamie Duininck (12:24):
Does the V-plow the future that have an opportunity for other options of sizes where you could put in a six-inch as-
Kyle Whitcomb (12:33):
Yeah, there are self-contained V-plow systems. Most of them are in Europe, they're a lot more popular over there. They're a lot more stringent about soil erosion and stuff over there also. So, they've got ones that go all the way up to eight inch. So, it is a fully self-contained system. It's not just an attachment shank, that is what you're running. That's the eighth, the four, the six, whatever you're putting through that thing up to a certain size.
Jamie Duininck (13:07):
Yeah. And I think that's what people don't realize is in when you get to Europe, you have high population and very small agricultural areas. And then, within those agriculture areas, the fields are really small because of the high population.
Kyle Whitcomb (13:22):
Yeah, they are a lot smaller fields over there. A big farm there is a small farm over here.
Jamie Duininck (13:32):
Yeah. I've been to Netherlands as one place and if you got a 200-acre farm, it's a big farm and there's so much more activity of just everyday life people, cars driving by your farm.
Kyle Whitcomb (13:47):
Yes, cars, people moving back and forth, then the regulations themselves are much higher than anything we deal with over here.
Jamie Duininck (13:55):
Yeah. So, from an erosion standpoint, from even being able to see it, the aesthetics of it on what a shank plow or a V-plow do are two different things. And so, sometimes I think over there, they don't even want them to know what's happening in their field and-
Kyle Whitcomb (14:13):
Not really. No, I don't believe it's going to-
Jamie Duininck (14:15):
Yeah. So, appreciate that and talking about the V-plow. Let's talk a little bit more just around business and your company. I know one thing we didn't talk about before, but I'd forgot, but you had an outlet a couple years ago that you were a different type of outlet that you were pushing at the NRCS or that you had shared with them.
Kyle Whitcomb (14:42):
Oh yeah, the intake.
Jamie Duininck (14:44):
The intake.
Kyle Whitcomb (14:44):
The intake box.
Jamie Duininck (14:46):
And I thought that was pretty interesting. And tell me a little bit about that, how that's worked because I never did have an opportunity to talk to you about it.
Kyle Whitcomb (14:54):
So, we're basically taking out intakes and we're putting a basket in there with plastic welded four-inch couplers and stuff in there, tap tees. The entire thing is custom fit to whatever size main you got, how deep you want it to be and you can dig down a little bit, take the top off if you need to clean it off and stuff, but more or less is just coming to those guys that have that real sharp area of intake where they got 20 acres just going into a small area and you know how intakes work. You get a little bit of dirt and water movement and it just escalates very quickly.
(15:39):
So, I went and got a basket design that basically we can take out the intake, put it online or in line with the mains, take out and either loop everything together, either fill it up with rock or fill it up back with native soil, or it's one of those things where we can do a starburst pattern and we'll just drop the plow in, go up to where the water would leave naturally and let that entire thing work underground instead of having an open surface intake.
(16:10):
And the one farmer who he does a lot of erosion control practices, he did have guys out from the state this summer and they were looking at it because he had, I think 42 acres going into it and it was washing out every year and it was just basically something he had to fix every year. Even if he had a hink and bottom up there, it would just keep filling up until the water couldn't get to it or would just keep sucking dirt in.
(16:40):
But he had the state out there and they finally got to the point where they got a hold of a mirror. They were like, "This is something we might be interested and we think this has some applications." It's more or less just a soil control issue.
Jamie Duininck (16:57):
And I think that's really-
Kyle Whitcomb (16:58):
And keeping that soil where it should be instead of letting it get into a tile line, which will always cause problems or outlet into the ditch and just losing that soil.
Jamie Duininck (17:08):
Yeah. Well, when you see the beehive intakes and things like that, after a while you got to add onto them or-
Kyle Whitcomb (17:18):
Yep. You got to build them up or you got to scrape them out. And not only that is you got to work around them.
Jamie Duininck (17:23):
Yeah. And the reason is because the soil's leaving, right?
Kyle Whitcomb (17:26):
Yeah.
Jamie Duininck (17:26):
That's why you have to do that. And so, for figuring out and understanding better ways to do this part.
Kyle Whitcomb (17:32):
Yeah. And he hasn't had that, I think, what was our wettest year? Was it last year?
Jamie Duininck (17:38):
Last year, yep.
Kyle Whitcomb (17:39):
He said he lost the area in there and this is a fully covered intake. There's no opening to it anymore. Said he lost area of a mid-size car. He said about 36 hours all that water was gone.
Jamie Duininck (17:55):
Wow, that's really impressive because we had, I don't know exactly where that is, but you're talking an area that had some rains that were more than one that were over six inches or so.
Kyle Whitcomb (18:08):
Yeah. I was right in that area where we were getting that 19-inch rain, that one this past summer.
Jamie Duininck (18:16):
Which is really remarkable when you look at that whole area too. We should do a podcast sometime just on that is literally... Well, you just said people aren't going to know and they're going to think he didn't say that, 19 inches? No, it was a small area, but it did with a pretty large area that had over 10, like almost a wide.
Kyle Whitcomb (18:35):
Yeah, it was a huge area. But yeah, he said he lost about an area of a car.
Jamie Duininck (18:40):
Yeah. That's impressive.
Kyle Whitcomb (18:41):
And it's one of those things where farmers don't want to work around intakes anymore either. When you were spot tiling, they had their place back in the day. This is my bad spot. I want an intake in here. I want to get rid of the water. Now, if you've got a fully integrated pattern tile system, these things work great.
Jamie Duininck (19:00):
Yeah. So, Kyle, tell me a little bit about your services you provide as a, you're a farm drainage contractor, but what else are you guys doing to keep yourself busy?
Kyle Whitcomb (19:11):
We do septic systems, foundations. We actually do city sewer and water services. We're on call for Outwater Grove City or not, Outwater Lake Lillian and Cosmos. So, we repair water mains and service lines. We repair private stuff all the time.
Jamie Duininck (19:35):
Sure, sure. And third generation, grandpa started the business. So, you've been working with your dad since you're nine.
Kyle Whitcomb (19:42):
I've started working with Morris when I was nine. I had to negotiate with him.
Jamie Duininck (19:47):
Which that taught you a lot.
Kyle Whitcomb (19:48):
Yes, it did. He probably won out better than I did.
Jamie Duininck (19:52):
So, what's your desire or your dream for the future of your business? You got kids that are [inaudible 00:20:00].
Kyle Whitcomb (20:00):
Yep. I've got three children. I got a daughter. She has been out. She's mostly out for the four-wheeler is what she's out for when she's in the field. But even when she was three years old, she was putting down flags and she was dropping tees for me.
Jamie Duininck (20:15):
Yeah, nice.
Kyle Whitcomb (20:16):
And then, I got a three-year-old boy, he loves machinery That seems to be his passion. He'll see a backhoe half a mile off in a field. He's like, "Excavator."
Jamie Duininck (20:30):
Yeah, cool. That's the right way to get your kids interested and you never know where it goes from there, but it's nice to keep that legacy going.
Kyle Whitcomb (20:42):
Yep. Every kid's different. Some of them love it, some of them don't. I'm one of six and I do most of the dirt work stuff.
Jamie Duininck (20:51):
Sure. Do you have partners with siblings in your business too, or are they in different businesses?
Kyle Whitcomb (20:59):
Most of them are in different businesses. Steven's got a grand bin construction company too, so my youngest brother and brother-in-law had that up. And then, my one brother, he has a service business for grain bins and dryers and stuff like that. So, that's his deal. My sister, she's our bookkeeper...
Jamie Duininck (21:18):
Sure.
Kyle Whitcomb (21:19):
... and our HR person.
Jamie Duininck (21:21):
I know, at Watergrove City Walmart area when you talk about the Whitcombs, if you don't know them well, you don't know which one you're talking about because you guys are all pretty industrious.
Kyle Whitcomb (21:33):
It's a pretty large family.
Jamie Duininck (21:34):
Industrious and entrepreneurial and so it's to be committed to. It's great that you guys are out there in the providing services to the community and working hard. So, appreciate that. And I appreciate you stepping into the V-plow thing and offering something to farmers that are looking for something different than just the traditional way of drainage. And I think as the possibility of no-till grows, the business is going to go true because no-till is really linked to having your proper water management plan in place in order to-
Kyle Whitcomb (22:11):
Yeah, you have to have a proper management in place. If you're trying to do no-till and you just got a couple strings of tile in there, it's going to be a little bit of a rough ride for you.
Jamie Duininck (22:22):
Yep, for sure. Well, thanks for joining me today. Anything you want to add or?
Kyle Whitcomb (22:28):
No, I think I'm good.
Jamie Duininck (22:29):
All right. Thanks, Kyle. Appreciate. Kyle Whitcomb, Whitcomb Farm Drainage.
Kyle Whitcomb (22:33):
Thank you.
