Movie Reviews and Serious Nonsense
Movie Reviews and Serious Nonsense
Murderbot
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
“Murderbot: The anti-hero you never knew you needed—and the robot you definitely don’t want mad at you.”
Hey, it’s Greg Dyro and Tom Burka, your guides through the wild and weird world of Serious Nonsense. If you like your sci-fi with a side of sass, a dash of existential dread, and more attitude than your ex at a wedding, you’re in the right place.
Today, we’re talking about Murderbot—the Apple TV+ adaptation of Martha Wells’ The Murderbot Diaries. Think rogue AI, corporate conspiracies, and a cyborg who just wants to watch TV and be left alone. But sorry, Murderbot, you’re in for a rough ride—and so are we.
Movie Reviews and Serious Nonsense is a King Dyro Production ©2026
Today on Serious Nonsense, we're going to talk about the Apple TV series, Murderbot. There you go. There we go. So um I I'm I'm like brain dead. I should have the thing out for my uh um the author of the actual books, the author of the books that that Murderbot is based on.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, her name is Is it possible that it's Kathy Wells? Or no Martha Wells. Martha Wells. Yes, it is.
SPEAKER_01It's Martha Wells. So we should call Martha Martha Wells and see if she'd talk to us.
SPEAKER_00Well, wow, she's never older than I expected. Hi, how old is she? Um she is she's she's just a couple of years younger than us. She was born in 1964.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_00So she's she's like 60?
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Right. Yeah, but um let's face it, she just looks older than us. Uh well, on the ones she doesn't, actually.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. On that note, I'm I do I do want to say I really, really enjoy the books. So that's where I first encountered this, and I think I told you, Tom, about the Murderbot series, uh the series of books. And I was quite I was quite surprised when I found out that Apple had already uh created a uh a Murderbot series, uh at least the first book.
SPEAKER_00Uh well, you know, there I as I discovered doing some research on this, there have been quite a number of uh productions, uh TV productions called Murderbot, but none of them were based on the books until this one. Uh-huh. And I have no knowledge of what those others are like, but I'm just guessing. Because one of them is described as you would expect, about a robot that goes on a murder spree. So this is a very, very different thing. And yes, uh, I also read the first book, uh and and not not I I still have the others to go, but now I'm thinking of waiting because I like the series so much. But um we should explain the origin of the name Murderbot. Yes. Yes, we should. Well, this is this is on you, man, because you have a better than me.
SPEAKER_01We have a uh a synthetic cyborg uh um he's partially uh mechanical, partially organic. Uh he's a created uh being that has a uh a governor module that uh controls his behavior, uh, and he's a security unit. Um and they shorten it to a sec unit. And he is essentially uh a hired gun, slash he's he's a piece of equipment that somebody on an expedition would rent slash and or hire uh to protect um protect them against hostile acts by you know creatures on a planet or or another group that's dangerous situations. Dangerous situations. Like like hiring a like hiring your bank security guard, you know, but but this is uh uh I don't know, a a piece of equipment. It's not a person. Yeah, it's a robot, but it's not quite a robot because it's got it's organic and it's um you know it's organical. He's an android? Yeah, he's like an android. He's not a he's a construct, as they call it. He's a construct. He is not he's not built from a person. He's he's grown, his material, his organic material is grown, and he is is sentient, but he is uh he has a very restricted um you know parameters and instructions, like a computer would, uh, where his task is to protect the humans that that he's uh um tasked with protecting. Um he's owned by a company.
SPEAKER_00However, however, we should say he has hacked his governor module so that he is a totally free being with uh free will, and uh he just calls himself murder body. Uh he has not murdered anybody. No, at least as far as we know, yes, right.
SPEAKER_01But it's his program and is the the ability to murder people, to kill people. Not not murder people, but to protect and to kill, you know, people if he needs to protect if if in fact there was some kind of horrible murderer running around um threatening the people he's been hired to protect, he would conceivably kill that murderer. So yes, yes. So he didn't want to be whatever uh, you know, item number 52348, you know, set second unit AB slash five. You know, it was like a stupid kind of name.
SPEAKER_00So and uh yeah, no, exactly. And the the the books are infused with a certain humorous perspective and really told from uh the first person perspective of Murderbot. Yes. Uh yeah, it's his internal monologue and uh uh etc. Um and that's one of the things that lends the books, or at least the the first book, which is really a novella, um its charm, frankly, is his perspective on uh society and humans in general.
SPEAKER_01And uh he's he's coming at this perspective from being a robot and uh and a piece of equipment where he's not human. He's not human. And he just doesn't really fully understand humans. Um and one of the humorous things is that he enjoys watching uh uh serials, uh he enjoys watching streaming content.
SPEAKER_00Right. And so, and so, well, this has been this was a great um device for the uh for the creators of the TV series that they just globbed onto immediately, uh, which is to show scenes from these uh they're they're horrible soap operas, really. Yes.
SPEAKER_01And he knows they're he knows they're horrible soap operas too, but he loves them.
SPEAKER_00He loves them, and so it was an opportunity to cast uh some great cameos in each of the episodes uh that we we see little bits and pieces of the soap operas that Murderbot um you know is watching while he's trying to, you know, honestly, if if he had his brothers, he would just be sitting around, well, standing around, just watching these continually and not having to do anything else in regards in regards to all of his duties, uh, his official duties and otherwise as an intrusion upon his viewing time.
SPEAKER_01Yes, and it's it's a very it's very humorous because it's like uh uh imagine the uh you know the security agent at the bank uh you know listening to the to the to the baseball game or something instead of paying attention to the to what he's supposed to be paying attention to. Except he's multitasking. He's multitasking. He can he can watch and he can you know do all these things all at the same time. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um yes, although um uh well, I mean, I was really surprised. At first I was having a hard time placing some of these actors in his favorite soap opera Sanctuary Moon. Right. Um, but Clark Gregg uh plays a lieutenant, John Cho was a captain, Jack McBrayer or Breyer, I can never pronounce his name correctly, um uh was one of the assistants um or um functionaries uh commanded by the captain and lieutenant in the scenes that we've seen so far. Umthough by the third episode he we see scenes from an entirely different show. Um but I mean it's a lot of fun. I have to say that I was very surprised both at the casting of Alexander Skarsgard and also uh he really does a great job in my mind of bringing this character to life. Um you know, I mean he necess you know, he has to figure out as an actor how to not be entirely robotic, but uh have the qualities of somebody who doesn't have human emotions. Uh but at the same time, he definitely has feelings. Yes, yes, he does. Right. So he's gotta be pretty subtle, I think. Uh and he hits exactly the right tone. And the the show as a whole seems to hit exactly the right tone to me. Right.
SPEAKER_01In the uh and you'll see it uh uh watching that first episode, he's he has a uh a face shield, uh like a helmet that basically hides his face. Uh and he really enjoy he doesn't like to reveal his face because his face he has a head and a face like a human. Um and uh he much preferred to be behind the shield of his helmet so he doesn't have to make eye contact and doesn't have to actually look at people and pay attention to people.
SPEAKER_00Uh or have them see or have them see him. Yes. He doesn't appreciate any of the comments about him. And part of the running joke in this first season is that he he's placed as a security unit with a bunch of people who are very um free love, almost hippie ish, uh, you know, and they see they see security units as people, and so they keep trying to treat him like a human, which he finds really, really, really uh awkward and off-putting, and he doesn't know how to behave. And um I'm gonna tell you something that may or may not come as a surprise to you. Okay. Um but there's been some commentary that uh his character basically is in a way autistic and a gender, and so is particularly relevant to uh to people who have those conditions. Or well, a gender is not a condition, uh but you know, who have those perspectives.
SPEAKER_01He truly is agender because he's a construct and he has no, as it's pointed out, I think, in in one of these first of the three episodes where they ask if he has, you know, uh, you know, is he fully functional? And it's like, no, he's a that that would be a sex bot. I'm I'm not I'm not a sex bot. Well a comfort unit, a comfort unit.
SPEAKER_00No, and then they they fucking show him nude. Nothing. Yeah, we've got nothing. Yeah, he looks like he looks like a Barbie doll. There's just nothing down there. Yeah. And I have to say, I found it very, very disconcerting to see Alexander Scar's go naked without any genitalia whatsoever. And they've they've also made him very smooth, yeah. So that uh, you know, he just he he looks like uh a giant Barbie doll.
SPEAKER_01Um they may they may talk about that later because in the subsequent books, that whole idea that you just mentioned about him being way too smooth, uh he realizes that and uh in in later in some of the later books and and and needs some augmentation in order to have hair.
SPEAKER_00Now, as I yes, I understand, by the way, that uh this whole first season tracks the first book, the first novella. Right. And uh Yes, which actually uh I initially was frustrated uh at because I was expecting things to move faster. But first of all, the first book is very good. The whole the whole plot and everything is completely engaging. Uh you know, because the other thing is that the group of humans that he is tasked with protecting seem especially clueless about the fact that they are they hire him, they rent him from the company, um uh because the whole most of society is governed by um a corporation. And uh, you know, so he's just he's just equipment that the corporation loans out for expeditions on other planets, among other things, right?
SPEAKER_01And they yeah, they needed him in order to get to get their bond, to get their uh their money secured.
SPEAKER_00Their insurance fund.
SPEAKER_01Their insurance fund, yeah. They had to have the sec unit. And there's a very, very humorous thing where they're they're looking at various sec units, you know, and well, what about that one behind there? Well, that's an older model. That's a pretty and you're hearing the inner monologue of murder bodies, uh oh, that's me.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, the old model. I mean, he makes he makes no bones about the fact that he is actually a shitty, a shitty bot uh compared to the other ones that are. The newer models, yes, the newer models. Right, exactly. Um you know, and I I think they did a fantastic job with this, really. Uh the first episode, I was kind of having some trouble adapting to um the tone of it because I I I wasn't sure that I loved Alexander Skarsgarden, to be honest with you. But by the second episode, I was totally sold. I uh, you know, I one of the things that Yes.
SPEAKER_01No, no, I agree with you on that, you know, but coming at it from the perspective of the of the book and then coming into that first episode. But you're right, as we move into the second episode, um, I'm totally, you know, I'm fine with Alexander Skarsgard.
SPEAKER_00So yeah, and I didn't like the first time I saw the first episode, I didn't find it to be that funny because I was still trying to, you know, get used to the tone. But by the second episode, I I had totally adjusted and bought into it. And so, you know, every time the humans decide to do something, and we hear his inner monologue, he said, it's just astonishing how stupid humans are. You know, or you know, once again, the humans are trying to go kill themselves, you know. Um yeah, he's he's really good. And um he he was one of the uh he's one of the executive producers of the show. Um they the show runners and writers and directors of the show are the Weitz brothers, and uh they're principally known, um, you know, uh this is Paul and Chris Weitz, uh, for a movie that they did years and years ago, um, called About a Boy, starring Hugh Grant. Right. Uh yeah, which is a great movie, by the way. Uh it's completely different in every aspect from Murderbot. Uh, as far as I can tell, I don't think they have really delved into science fiction before, but they're doing uh an excellent job. And apparently, while they were working on adapting it, they started throwing around ideas for um Sanctuary Moon, the soap opera, different scenes from it, and sharing them with Martha Wells, who was very excited about that aspect of the show, about it coming to life, because it's coming to life so it's perfect. Because in the book, there's some description of these scenes and and the show, but without with without the added dimension of actually seeing the scenes from the show, which uh is is just so much more impactful and so much funnier.
SPEAKER_01Well, well, one thing that he does that I think is very interesting is that Sanctuary Moon is his is is his form of education for humans and people. And and there are times when he and he quotes well, that's exactly how Captain What's his name did in Sanctuary Moon, you know, 552. Yeah, he quotes an episode, you know.
SPEAKER_00I wanted to ask you, I mean, is that is that the same as the plot? I don't remember in the book him consciously mimicking exact dialogue from Sanctuary. Oh, yes, yeah, he doesn't.
SPEAKER_01He does, and I don't remember if he does it in that first book, but he does quote from them and and he uses uh techniques that he's learned, you know, watching these TV shows. So Right.
SPEAKER_00And part of the Well part of the the tension and conflict in the show comes from the fact that if somebody decides and figures out that he has you know hacked his governor module, they're gonna melt him down. They're just he's dead. I mean, they will eliminate him immediately. And so he is quite concerned about uh the fact that he starts quoting from Sanctuary Moon, making him look uh uh very unusual as a sec unit and has to talk his way out of it.
SPEAKER_01Um it's like it's like quoting something from Star Trek and then having somebody, you know, uh a Trekkie in the group suddenly realize what you're quoting.
SPEAKER_00Yes. Although although that is they they just see it as being very unusual for a sec unit to respond um so hum so humanly. Uh humanly, is that a word? No. Um with with such humanity and uh uh command of language and empathy, because their understanding is that sec units don't have that ability at all. And so, of course, in the group of people that he is protecting is a rather unusual guy who has some implants that allow him to interact with machinery equipment.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, the energy. Yes, exactly.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, exactly. And you know, he can actually try and probe Murderbot's um you know programming. And so he presents a very special threat to Murderbot, and Murderbot uh believes that he's gonna figure the whole thing out.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and and and and this this kind of uh E well I don't know, illuminates uh this type of a person because I think you know if they obviously go into a second season or you know, go into the rest of the books, there's more interactions with potential people that that have those skills, uh uh that the implants um that this one fellow has. So they're it's kind of like we're we're educating you that humans can do have kind of some implants like this.
SPEAKER_00And um Which makes sense in in this sci-fi setting. And uh and actually what I really like is that, you know, he's not presented as like this great, well intentioned guy. Right. He he actually He actually considers murdering the entire group of them as a way of trying to conceal who he really is. Yes. And uh, and and that is just one of the great things about it is that, you know, there's usually a good reason for him not to kill everybody. Uh that's quite logical and and really more well, and that that is in his interest, uh, you know, his self-preservation. And that's why he doesn't kill everybody, which uh which is just great.
SPEAKER_01But he runs through the scenario. Yeah, he does the scenario of, well, well, I could do this.
SPEAKER_00You know, uh then I believe at one moment he said, Yeah, I could have just pulped his head.
SPEAKER_01And uh it's great. Because he does, he does say that. He says, Oh, if I murdered everybody, I'd be free and nobody would know, but then I'd be stuck on this this damn place. And he says, and no, and no more new uh streaming content. That's right, actually.
SPEAKER_00That's right. The lack of streaming content.
SPEAKER_01And that was a driving force that there's no more streaming content.
SPEAKER_00Well, I often feel that way anyway. Um, yeah, I mean, imagine if the streaming content disappeared. I I'm totally addicted to it. And uh, but the other thing is, is I I love his uncomfortability with eye contact. It is for me, that is one of the best moments in the entire show, is where he is he's actually ordered to maintain eye contact uh with uh some of the people that he's talking to. Um and you know, he he has to follow the orders or else they'll figure out that his governor module has been hacked. So he has to do it. He's just plainly so upset about it. Um, you know, uh it's really I'm really enjoying it. I mean, my only my only caveat about it is that um I I want to see more of what I happen to know happens later. Um, I mean, but uh I've forgotten how enjoyable the journey is throughout his entire uh story.
SPEAKER_01And it's it's this is this is a 10-episode series, I believe, according to if I looked it up on on IMDB or Apple, it's it's 10 episodes, and I think we're at episode four, maybe is coming out.
SPEAKER_00Episode four will be coming out on Friday, or we should share with our listeners the facts that if they really like an Apple TV show and it's coming out on a Friday, it will be available on Thursday night. You know, it's always available on the night before the day that they claim it's coming out, you know. So um which which is which is nice. I mean, so far I've watched every episode on Thursday. Yes. I I haven't I haven't waited until Friday. Um, you know, even though I should save it because, well, well, most of my Friday nights are spent on my couch at home. So why not have something to watch? Why not? Why not? So yes, but then again, Thursday night is really the same, so you know it's uh give give or take.
SPEAKER_01Now stepping stepping back just a little bit, I uh I encountered obviously these books and and read all of these books, and and I think I had mentioned it to you, Tom, that I really enjoyed these books, and I've I've evangelized these books to a number of people. And my thought originally was like, ooh, how how can this be made into a series because there's a tremendous amount of inner dialogue, and and I think they've done a very good job so far, and I think once you're used to it, I think we may see even more inner dialogue uh uh from from MurderBot. Because in the books, you're l you're essentially, as Tom said, you're you're seeing everything from his point of view, but but you're also listening to his running commentary uh on on everything that's going on. Um so that's the part that I enjoy tremendously about the book, obviously, is is his running monologue, his his talking about what he's seeing. I mean uh and it obviously gets laid out. We see what what's going on in the book, but he's also commenting on it to himself.
SPEAKER_00Right. And then visually they do a good job because they also show kind of floating near him um his visual readouts that give him information about what's what's actually going on uh in the habitat and outside on the planet through the various sensors and cameras that he has access to. I mean, one of the jokes being that he knows what's going on in every room in the habitat, which uh sometimes makes him extremely uncomfortable when he sees he mentions that there are all the sex scenes in Sanctuary Moon. He skips all of them. You know, all of the romance scenes. He just finds them completely distasteful, and then of course discovers that the same thing is going on around him uh with the group of people. I want to give a shout out to David Das Malkin. I can't I don't know if I'm pronouncing his name correctly, but he is a somewhat, I'm sure he would be the first to say this, a somewhat weird looking guy. His face just um is very expressive and and uh and almost looks a little distorted. Uh and he's had a career which uh really I mean he he he looks a little bit like a real sad sack of a human being uh and his roles uh have have veered from being one of Joker's henchmen in the dark night um to and I really, really loved his performance as, yes, polka dot man in uh the Suicide Squad, this the second Suicide Squad movie. Uh uh the whole idea of a superhero or supervillain called Polkadot Man, um, you know, when he is encountered uh in the Suicide Squad, um uh he's introduced as Polkadot Man, and the guy viewing him says, What does he do? Throw polka dots at people? And they're like, Yeah. And then when we see him actually doing it, well, he just he's just cutting these people to shreds uh with his polka dots are just incredibly dangerous. But basically, and he gets to a point where he basically just keeps swelling and swelling with more and more polka dots and then just explodes. Um so uh he he just was hilarious in that role. And so the role that he's playing here is the guy with uh he's a cyborg, I mean, yeah, right? Isn't that the yeah, he's got he's got a lot of genetic implants that allow him to, yeah.
SPEAKER_01And he's a little uh uh not not really socially conscious, but he obviously has a we find out that he has uh infatuation with the commander of the group or the the leader of the group.
SPEAKER_00Uh which was uh which was terribly surprising and and uh more disturbing than uh the idea that he was about to uh uh you know set off little bombs destroying the habitat, that he was he was kind of an uh an undercover spy. Um but no, he just he just wants to uh dismell the sheets of the commander-in-chief, which uh which really, really disturbs Burger Bot. Um, you know, yeah, these are by these are very minor spoilers. They're not really spoilers at all. They're uh we haven't really said anything about the plot uh specifically, so please don't take this as a reason to avoid watching it. Um believe me. I mean I read the first book and I thoroughly enjoyed uh all the episodes coming. And also, you know, I mean they're not slavishly following the books. I mean, I think that they have they have shaped various scenes uh and and created new scenes, uh, which makes sense because if they were to just adapt the first book, which is really a novella, they wouldn't have enough content for ten episodes. Right.
SPEAKER_01No, no, I think they're they're doing a good job of uh of you know emotionally portraying the the group that that that he's dealing with at this point, which will lead to you know other things down the line. Um and the difference between the corporation, the corporate part of the galaxy versus their free, you know, free, you know, it's like they're on the galactic rim if you're talking about Star Wars kind of thing, and they're they're outside of the the Empire's uh control. Um, but they're having to deal with the Empire. They're having to deal with the Empire or the corporations.
SPEAKER_00And so they suddenly and they're they're basically they're like a commune. Uh you know, I I'm not sure exactly, it's a little unclear exactly. They're looking for resources on this planet, but it's a little unclear on what they're particularly looking for.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, they've left that, they've left that a little open and a little bit.
SPEAKER_00It's not that important. I mean, it's like a MacGuffin. All you need to know is that they came there for a reason. And, you know, it's not working out the way they want it to. Right. Um, as far as I can tell, all of the episodes are written by Chris and Paul White. Uh, although strangely, at least in Wikipedia, it says that the the 10th episode, um, the writer is TBA, but it's gotta be them because they've written every single other episode. Uh-huh. And uh it's gonna run through July 11th. And so to me, it's a it's a it's just a great summer watch, you know. Um are the episodes Yeah, the episodes are only half an hour long.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, they're only half hour long.
SPEAKER_00So they're uh Yeah, they seem to pack a lot into that half hour, at least to me. I don't know. I I thought that I actually thought they were longer. I don't know why.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and there seems to be a a new trend in some of these uh uh series to go for that half hour-ish, 30 to 40 minutes long. Um now this is 30 minutes of obviously no commercials, and maybe they're making it because they want to sell it, not sell it, but show it on uh Tubi or Pluto or somebody like that eventually where they're gonna add in commercials. So then it would be a longer a little longer.
SPEAKER_00Well, I mean, let's face it, uh Tubi and Pluto and Amazon Prime and all the people who like to shove commercials into these things, they don't really give a shit about whether or not there is a reasonable break. Right. Right. Uh they just yeah, they uh this is one of my complaints about commercials in streaming services, is that they're not always that well placed. Um you know, I mean, I I feel like it's better if commercials come at a place where there's kind of a normal Blake break, uh fade to black, a transition between sections or scenes as opposed to in the middle of a scene.
SPEAKER_01Well, I think I think the opportunity for you, Tom, to to create an AI program that would analyze the streaming content and give the optimal placements for commercials.
SPEAKER_00Um I think there's a lot I I have ChatGPT working on that right and right now as we speak. As we speak. Yeah, and it's it's watching all of the episodes of Sanctuary Moon to get a sense of this.
SPEAKER_01Um you know it's about 500 or 600 episodes of uh Sanctuary Moon, I think. Oh, and uh what what what I love, what I love uh switching to the book a little bit, and and this may or may not come out later, is that he loves Sanctuary Moon so much that he rewatches things.
SPEAKER_00Oh wow, I love that. Yeah. That's that's nothing like me. I've already watched the second episode twice. Um and uh now I did watch the third one twice. I I figure, you know, once was enough for me. But um I'm eagerly awaiting the next installment. Can we can we take just a moment? Uh we don't have an enormous amount of time left, but can we just take a moment to talk about AI since you mentioned it?
SPEAKER_01Sure, we can we can take a moment to talk about AI.
SPEAKER_00I just saw what was basically uh at least a five-minute long segment, which was entirely created by AI, of well, as an action sequence, uh a giant um uh ancient army with you know warriors hurtling towards the foe on a million horses over a field with close-ups and cutaways and you know, cutaways to like one of the one of the commanders standing waiting for the army to arrive and you know, a bead of sweat running down his face. And this was labeled in Instagram as um, well, uh, you know, the movie industry and actors and everybody, they're they're all screwed because AI is going to totally put everybody out of business, including cameramen and crews. And it was one of the most boring cliched little pieces of video that I've ever seen. Yeah, it looked it looked great, um, and it didn't look like it was, you know, computer generated, but right um I'm sorry, you're never gonna be able to you're never gonna be able to reproduce the authenticity and creativity that comes from a crew uh interacting to create a great movie with a director and a writer and real actors. I'm sorry. I just think that this is comes from the same place where people are saying they're gonna, you know, AI is about to become uh, you know, freely intelligent and uh you know assassinate all of humanity.
SPEAKER_01I I think um my impression upon that is is yes, I think AI will change the way things are made, but it is not going to change you know, and some jobs will not be there anymore. I mean, if you think about digital photography, all of the one hour labs and all of the camera, you know, film, all of that's gone. But but but it didn't change it changed photography maybe for the better because more people are doing photography and taking pictures. So here with AI, you know, my impression is that it's going to it's a tool that you can use, and like any tool, uh if you d just use the tool without human interaction, you know, you get, you know, maybe a very static plain thing that might look beautiful, might look great, but it's not flawed. And the flaw happens, I think, you know, from human interaction. And my perspective, I guess, is that generative AI, I think, is much more where we're at in the film industry. It's like, I'm making this film, and I need my character to suddenly have you know, he lost his leg, uh, so I need to have him be able to have a mechanical leg. And AI is gonna allow me to have this character have this mechanical leg and walk around without me having to do a tremendous amount of extra kind of work to do that. Now I've got a week.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it'll be much easier, much easier to do that for sure.
SPEAKER_01And that and it's a piece, it's it's it's it's a it's a tool to kind of I could have done it before, you know, I could have whatever, but but now I can do it easier, so it allows me, you know, to to to do it in a in a freer way, but I can see somebody doing something like that and going overboard. And it's like, oh yeah, that's like, you know, uh, you know, it's too much, you know, and it's well it does make me think of Hello Dolly.
SPEAKER_00Um Hello Dolly, directed by Gene Kelly as the uh the the scene with the largest amount of extras that have ever been used in uh a motion picture. Um uh if I recall correctly. I don't know whether that's still true, but it certainly was not too long ago. Um but well that's not gonna happen again.
SPEAKER_01I mean, AI definitely Well, that already happened with Lord of the Lord of the Rings.
SPEAKER_00I mean, Lord of the Rings had all those, you know, computer generated, you know, uh writers and and uh um right, but now it's gonna be much cheaper, much cheaper and much faster to just say, you know, I want a crowd of a thousand in the background here. Right. Um and then just tweak the result until you get the look that you want, and it probably will be pretty quick. Now, at the same time, I will say that uh one of the things that the Screen Actor Guild was striking about uh in the recent strike was that the producers were proposing that the standard contract for an extra would give permission to use their image in perpetuity. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, and I mean, well, great. So you'd basically be paid $100 for one day of work, and then you would never be needed again. I mean, which is astonishing. Um, and I mean, yeah, no, I mean, uh, I think that uh that was worth fighting against. At the same time, you know, they're gonna have uh my guess is that the faces of extras and crowd scenes are going to be combinations of the features of numerous people basically scanned on the internet, you know?
SPEAKER_01Um it's a little bit like you know, the controversy over uh, I believe really in uh uh and in Rogue One, where they had uh uh what's his name?
SPEAKER_00Uh uh is it General Tarkin, the uh uh the fellow that had passed away, and they um you know you know I I think they would do a much better job. I know who you're talking about uh now. Uh yeah, and I Peter Cush. Because I just finished watching Andor, I started watching Rogue One, right? Right. And I have to say, he's not totally convincing there. Um you know. Uh uh. No, but I do suspiciously computer generated.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, but I allow I allow it to happen. You know, I allow it uh I allow my suspension of disbelief. It's like it's okay. It's I I get where they're going. This is this is him. He would be saying these words because he's a character.
SPEAKER_00So Oh yeah, but um you know, there's there's a little bit of a I just think this is hilarious, but it's also um It's also very relevant, which is that uh um James Earl Jones licensed his voice for use in AI. Uh and that license was intended to uh continue after his death. And so in uh in in in a video game, um they have Darth Vader um and you know you can interact with Darth Vader within the game, and you know, uh it's James Earl Jones talking to you? Well, yeah, but also James Earl Jones is saying all kinds of fucked up shit. Um he sometimes curses, he you know, um it was the video game Fortnite. James Earl Jones would say, Well, that's really fucked up, you know. Um things like that. They they the video game people um then corrected that mistake, but you can have some really silly conversations with them. But the uh Screen Actors Guild actually um they're they're threatening to sue the makers of Fortnite because even though they have the rights, uh-huh, um they didn't they didn't run it by the Screen Actors Guild before they used it, and the Screen Actors Guild is claiming that this is a violation of the recent contract, which is that they're supposed to review this ship. And uh I'm not sure that this is the uh the hill that the Screen Actors Guild should die on about the use of AI, but uh why do they wanna why do they want to screen it? What's the what's the to make sure that they want to they want to screen the um the terms of the contract and make sure that they uh that they're yeah, compliant and also they they believe that they should have a role in negotiating the licensing, um which is something that the contract provides for. Uh and I think the reason behind that is because they don't want to see people licensing their voices for nothing. Right. And they think that what's gonna happen is that, well, all of these voices and and images um, you know, and likenesses of actual actors are gonna be licensed for nothing, and you know, it's going to basically erode, drastically erode not just actors' actual participation in projects, but drastically erode their income from licensing their voice and look. Um and I I think they, you know, they learned a lot from streaming, which is nobody could have predicted the degree to which streaming was going to uh screw up the the amount of money that actors make from participating in something. So I mean I I just wanted to touch on this. I didn't want to spend an hour and a half talking about it, although we certainly could in the future. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah No, no, it's it's a valid, it's a valid thing to talk about. And there's two different perspectives, obviously. There's there's the you know, the person persons making a project and using tools that that they want to use. And then there's the perspective of I, the Screen Actors Guild and the Actors and that group saying, you know, well, we we need to protect our workers. Um and I I know some of that stuff slowly gets eroded, you know, as far as the protections are concerned.
SPEAKER_00Well, and and here's the other thing the Screen Actors Guild, I mean, let's face it, look at the latest Indiana Jones video game who did the voice of Harrison Ford. It wasn't Harrison Ford, but it was uh a fantastic actor who completely captured his voice, not as it is today, but as it is in in the 80s, yeah. The you know his voice is a little bit lighter and uh well and has some different characteristics. And um this is Troy, I can't remember his name, Troy Baker, who uh uh has done voices in video games all over the place. And you know, he's not just a voice actor, he does the motion capture for all this stuff.
SPEAKER_01So uh it's it's kind of it's kind of like uh Journey hiring uh this this fellow from Indonesia or whatever or the Philippines to to because he sounds like uh Steve Perry. Yeah, because Steve Perry left the group. You know?
SPEAKER_00Do you know that? Right. It's not like Steve Perry died. Yeah. Right. Right. Um that's actually this is I mean, you know, one wonders. I mean, Steve Perry voluntarily left the group, but uh he might he might be upset that somebody who basically can do his voice or sounds exactly like him, has replaced him so that his own his own sound is no longer quite as unique as it used to be.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's it's it's an interesting, you know, issue. It's kind of like it's not like uh Van Halen who had a couple different, you know, lead singers who sounded different, you know, even though it was the Van Halen sound um with this the whole Steve Perry kind of thing. It's like they it's like searching for someone that sounds exactly like you know uh David Lee Roth and bringing them into the band to sing.
SPEAKER_00Well, and also look, there's gonna be there's gonna be the estates of famous actors as an example. Um Humphrey Bogart. Um Steve McQueen has already appeared in a movie uh after his death, which was The Matrix 2. And uh, you know, instead of hiring an actor to be Humphrey Bogart, um, which which I have to say adds a different quality to a movie, which I I actually think is positive. Um but uh you know Humphrey Bogart may be appearing in a lot of movies in the future, you know, as an example. Um and I I think we're definitely gonna see that, and it's gonna be very weird. Uh but uh but it may come to be just a standard thing that we accept. Right. And and or Terry Grant will still be charming.
SPEAKER_01Yes, and andor it will be that way, and then we'll get bored with it and we won't see him anymore because oh yeah, done that been there, done that.
SPEAKER_00I I actually think you're you're totally right about that. I mean, it's it's like stunt casting. You know, just stunt casting for Hen Humphrey Bogart being actually Humphrey Bogart will get tiresome.
SPEAKER_01Right. And it's like, you know, you we you want something new, you want something, you know, maybe a reference to it, but uh it's an interesting Well, I mean, you know, we want to see uh new actors bringing the sensibilities of of their history and the context in which they've grown up doing performances.
SPEAKER_00And with the kind I mean, acting has changed as an example.
SPEAKER_01Um it'll it'll be it'll be interesting because there's always that there's already that controversy there. Uh Warner Brothers is talking about, or they're already doing, they're gonna do a series of uh Harry Potter. They're gonna new with new actors, you know, portraying all of the characters that we know from the books.
SPEAKER_00And it's that but I see I love that. I love the fact that, for instance, uh the Joker and the The Joker is now uh an interesting role that different people are bringing different things to. Right. Um and and I kind of like that. It's kind of like uh and I know this is probably not a comparison that people will love, but you know, there are a lot of different Hamlets, and it's nice to see different actors bringing different things to that role and different interpretations and different meaning. Um, you know, so uh no, no, it's true. No, somebody was telling me that they were actually very upset that Snape was going to be black in in this TV series. And I I don't I don't have any problem with it. It's it's not about whether he's black or white or whatever. It's just about whatever this the actor what he brings to that role. Or you know, if Snape were a woman, I don't have a problem with it. Right. I actually wouldn't mind seeing a female James Bond. Right.
SPEAKER_01Well, I think I think I think some of that, you know, some of that stuff got broken by the success of Hamilton, where, you know, uh a black actor in these roles suddenly it was about the role, it was about the man. It was no longer about, you know, oh, he's a white man per se. It's raciness.
SPEAKER_00There is a specific meaning to casting um persons of color in the roles of all of these white men, uh, which was to make a point about the fact that you know, Hamilton was actually an immigrant. Yes. And, you know, none of these people were quote unquote Americans. They just come to the country. Right. Uh yeah. Um and in fact, well, there was a there was a uh a little bit of a scandal because Hamilton um, you know, would only cast people of color. And uh there were a number of there was a group of equity members that objected and said that this was racist. Which was absurd in my mind.
SPEAKER_01Uh yes, yes, because it's it's it's an actor portraying a role and it doesn't quite matter. And in some ways, this is this is an embracement by by the black community of history and America, we are America. You know, I saw it in a lot of different things. I saw it that way, and because I had some people that talked about that. I don't understand that. It's like, well, it's an embracing of America. This is America. I am American. I can portray, you know, you know, who are, you know, and it doesn't diminish the story at all. I'm not a, you know, so so that's an interesting kind of take on things. Um and I thought a lot of stuff.
SPEAKER_00So well, and similar to the controversy that you know occurs when uh, you know, um there's some suggestion that uh if somebody's portraying a paraplegic in a movie that you should hire an actual paraplegic as opposed to uh you know an actor who is completely abled, so to speak. And I I I think there are uh you know, if you can find a paraplegic actor who can do justice to the role, uh I fine. Hire them. That's great. Um but I I don't think it's it's not uh I don't see it as a service to me. Yeah. No, Bill Byrd does uh does a whole bit about this. Yeah, about this objection. Yeah, it's a bit it's a bit ridiculous at times, you know, and it's like Yeah, it can it can go way, way beyond rationality, but at the same time, you know, uh well there used to be there used to be when there were Native Americans depicted in these old cowboy and Indian movies, um they would just they would just you know paint the faces of these white guys. Right. And uh, you know, there were no Native American uh actors at all in there. And I think it's certainly valid to say, listen, stop doing that. It's the same as blackface.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_00Well yeah, you've got many capable actors to pick from that look like the role, that are that can do the role and look like the role, and you know, so and to bring it around, uh you know, I don't think there's anything wrong with um hiring Alexander Skarsgaard to portray somebody without genitals, uh you know, as opposed to finding somebody who actually doesn't have genitals. Uh-huh. Or or hiring somebody who's actually an agender person. I don't think that is necessary. I mean um so uh well I tried I tried to bring it around. Bring it back around to Murderbot, so we're we're talking about the fact that so we can put a button on on the whole discussion. Yes. So did I did I do that?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you did it. We're we're at the point now where we're gonna tell everybody go and watch Murderbot, enjoy it. You know, uh this is not uh, you know, this is not Star Trek, this is not, you know, anything. It's it's got a bit of comedy, it's got a bit of commentary on the human condition. Um and uh enjoy it.
SPEAKER_00Uh yeah, I think it's largely an action comedy that I would highly recommend. But uh, you know, to each his own. Yes. Go go try it out.
SPEAKER_01So excellent. Well, thanks everybody. We're we're approaching uh uh basically the one hour mark uh on our uh celebration of of nonsense uh by talking about uh uh a new series on serious, serious nonsense. Not just this is not that's another podcast, plain old nonsense. This is this is seriously. Yes, you'd have to go elsewhere for plain nonsense. Plain nonsense. We're we're we're serious nonsense. So uh well we thank everybody for uh participating by listening. And if you made it all the way to the end, uh I have a prize for you, and that's just uh simply uh uh don't smoke, it's probably not really good for you.
SPEAKER_00Um Right, and and vaping no longer is thought to be a great improvement over actually just smoking cigarettes. So keep that in mind. But um leave any comments that you want on the website about how you feel about MurderBot or any any other shows or uh anything that you would recommend us getting into.
SPEAKER_01And and watch very well, watch, uh listen. We will have a uh a short um a short serial that we we worked on uh debuting soon um once I finish some uh updates on it because I've been a little lax on that. So watch for that to be presented soon. We've been busy. What can I say? We've been busy doing doing nonsense, serious nonsense serious nonsense, very serious nonsense.
SPEAKER_00All right, Greg. Well, thank you again for an illuminating hour.
SPEAKER_01Yes, and uh we're off, and uh we'll see everybody next week or next month. Thank you. All right, you've been listening to Movie Reviews and Serious Nonsense, a podcast with Greg Dairo and Tom Burka. This is a King Diro Production, copyright 2025.
