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She Built It® Podcast
Welcome to the She Built It® podcast. Join me as I talk to women who have successfully built it - a life and business that they love. We dive into the topic of “how” they built it and talk about everything from having the courage to make career leaps to the details of how to lead effectively, build teams, implement growth strategies, and infuse tech innovation. Magic happens when we focus on the part of ourselves and our business that brings us joy so let’s dive in.
She Built It® Podcast
The Age of Overwhelm: What Positive Psychology Can Do for Marketing Teams
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On She Built It®, Dr. Debbie Qaqish, creator of Revenue Marketing® and founder of The Growth Factor, shares why the most urgent problem in marketing leadership today isn't strategy or AI; it's the human being trying to keep up with all of it.
With 35 years in B2B marketing and a deeply personal journey through depression, ketamine therapy, and positive psychology, Dr. Debbie brings a rare combination of hard-won experience and science-backed tools to one of the most demanding roles in business. She talks about what survival mode is costing leaders and teams, how neuroscience explains why stress narrows our thinking, and the practical techniques (from breathwork to reframing to gratitude) that help leaders shift from hanging on by their fingernails to genuinely flourishing at work. This conversation is equal parts science, strategy, and deeply human.
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Leadership Reset
She Built It® CEO, Melanie Barr Instagram
Do is based in neuroscience and positive psychology. There is no woo-woo. This is scientific psychological behaviors and tools that help you navigate change beautifully.
SPEAKER_00She built up we work within owned media, and so many CMOs and marketers are dripping up their playbook from before because AI and constant change. And you know, I see it every day in my work. And I also, as a business leader, you know, there's always a new platform or something you have to keep up with or something that's changing or something you want to implement. So you're right, what you do is so important now more than ever.
SPEAKER_01It is. And and I love your idea of them tearing up the playbooks because that's exactly what they need to do. The world that we live in right now, unfortunately, does not have enough playbooks for how the human being is experiencing that change. If you take a look at corporate America, they've got plans for the organization, they've got plans for the rollouts, they've got plans for how to use it, they've got all these change plans, but nobody's helping the human beings who are running those systems and who are trying to embrace that change. There's no playbooks for how to train them right now, and that's what I do.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and large corporations can't always move as quickly as smaller organizations.
SPEAKER_01They simply can't. And we were talking about AI before. AI has put this whole stress thing on steroids. I don't think there's anything in the history of technology like AI, the internet wasn't this big. And the pace of change that comes with AI, and if you're a CMO, you're looking great, I get all these new tools because you're the one that's pushing that change down. But to the people who have to incorporate that change and learn how to deal with that change when it's one strike after another, that is what is causing so much burnout in corporate America right now and and and marketing. And as far as that goes, the the role of the CMO, we have the shortest tenure ever right now. It's under four years, which is twice as least of any other senior executive. And part of that has to do with always doing the thing, the something, versus really investing in the people, which is what's required in our society today. And it's certainly required in marketing. And marketing does not have a good track record of investing in people to begin with. So this is really a big change.
SPEAKER_00You have spent decades at the intersection of marketing, leadership, and growth, and now positive psychology. What is the work you feel you've really been called to do in the season that we're talking about of constant daily change?
SPEAKER_01I started my prior company, the Pedowitz Group, with my partner, Jeff Pedowitz, in 2007. He started it and I joined a few months later. And in 2007, we were all about the technology. We were very early into marketing automation. I was customer number 12 at Eloqua, which at one time was the Mac Daddy of all marketing automation. So I was very early in that space for marketing automation. And we grew a great company. And within that, I've always been a more strategic and a transformational type of thinker. So, and I had experienced it myself when I bought marketing automation. So that's when I created revenue marketing, the whole idea that this marketing automation world could help you transform from being a pens and mugs department into a revenue and a growth driver, working hand in glove with the sales organization. And so I created that in 2011. It just absolutely took off because it made sense to me. And partly because I was a VP of sales for many years prior to that. So putting these two things together, you know, it just made a lot of sense. So I used to tell people my passion was transforming the role of marketing in corporate America from that pens and mugs to the revenue driver and getting that CMO both a seat and a voice at the table. That's what I loved doing for many years. But I noticed, Melanie, along the way, change, change, change, technology, technology, re-org, new CMO, constant change. And we were just leaving the people in the dust. And I personally had begun a journey of exploring positive psychology based on background. And when I began to explore positive psychology through the flourishing center, I'm like, oh my gosh, this is the missing ingredient. How can you show up to work every day and have the tools, the skills, and the knowledge not to survive, but thrive? And actually, positive psychology is the science of flourishing. So it was kind of like peanut butter and chocolate, putting those two things together. And there's not a marketing organization on the planet right now who are not overstressed, overworked, burnt out, and they simply do not understand that these tools actually exist. So my new passion is to help marketers flourish at work, not just show up to work, but thrive and flourish.
SPEAKER_00And I believe that's possible. My background is in sales too. And the whole point of marketing is to sell. And then when you can put numbers and data behind that, and that is what's becoming, you know, more and more important is what is the data behind all of it. And and how can AI help us in that? But you're right, you know, when I look back at my time in sales, I had to wrap myself in a blanket of positivity because you're hearing no, no, no, no, no all the time. And you're right, bringing those positive tools into our daily world, no matter what we're doing, is only going to help us be successful.
SPEAKER_01That's right. And they're all science-based. This is not woo-woo. So when I talk about how do you reframe a situation, it is through that process of reframing that you go from woe is me to, oh, I might have an opportunity here. That is very, very powerful. And there's a thousand and one tools like that that we can all borrow from positive psychology, Melanie. I am the only person that is doing this strictly for marketing organizations. I think there are lots of other kinds of companies out there, but because I've seen what's happening to marketers and to marketing leaders, my passion is to bring this into the marketing organization, working from the leadership all the way down to every single team member.
SPEAKER_00And that's so smart because it's only going to be able to help a team and a company be more successful when their team isn't under stress.
SPEAKER_01I'm also working really hard to democratize these skills. So I had this one workshop, which is about navigating change. Not only do you get the workshop, you also get managers facilitation kit, which are additional tools and skills they can work on with their team beyond what I cover in the workshop. And these things are not difficult. And it it is such an easy way to say, okay, let's learn this, let's apply it. Everything I do is very application-based. You do it, you apply it, period. But then this extends the reach so that you can do other things beyond that. And so it becomes part of the mentality of the organization, looking for these new tools that can help them flourish, help them thrive. And again, not hanging on by their fingernails at work every day.
SPEAKER_00And this is so important because CMOs are worried probably about making a wrong decision. And then their teams are given directives, and maybe they don't know how to implement what they're being asked to implement or what used to work is no longer working, and they have to learn an entire new stream of ways of gaining success for the company.
SPEAKER_01They really do. One of the ways I came to positive psychology, I spent years in therapy. I'm one of those people, I suffer from lifelong depression, at times quite dehabilitating, as a matter of fact. Through the years, different psychiatrists, different drugs, and about three, four years ago, I finally got on the right drugs and even began doing ketamine infusions, which made a huge difference to that depression. And it's kind of like once I was able to get out of the pit, once I got stabilized and my head kind of got over the top of the pit, then I said, I want everything positive moving forward. And that's when I I fell into positive psychology and I began to study that in earnest. It's not just positivity, it's rewiring how your brain thinks. So it's heavily based in neuroscience. What a lot of people don't understand, Melanie, is that when we're in a when we're in a very stressful situation, our lizard brain takes over. That's our caveman brain. And the caveman brain was designed to always be looking for danger 24-7, and you freeze or you run or you fight. And when that happens, and anybody that's in highly stressful situations, that their their lizard brain, the amygdala, is completely in control. When you use these tools, it allows you to access your prefrontal cortex, which is your thinking brain. So this helps you think better. So in stressful situations, we do like this. We shut down, our view of everything shuts down. And we use some of these techniques and these tools and these skills, opens right back up again so that you can navigate that change successfully. So there's a whole bunch of neuroscience behind this stuff and how our brain works. And uh there's this whole mind-body connection, which is a thousand percent true. And we're learning more and more about that every single day. But that's that's the whole idea is that there are tools, there are techniques, there are skills that help you navigate this stress in a very successful way. And they're easily taught.
SPEAKER_00It's so interesting because in talking to you, you would not know that you went through all that you did. And I'm curious if you think you did because you were under such stress working in the in the roles that you were in.
SPEAKER_01I have what's called uh stubborn depression, and you can't overcome it through behavior. My depression needs drugs to help you live a decent life. But again, it was finding recognizing I had depression, then getting help for it and getting the drugs and the therapy, and that takes a while. And I don't think it was the pressure of my life. Although I will say that I do like being in high pressure cooker situations. I seek them out. I'm an entrepreneur, and if if I'm not going full blast, I'm not very happy. That's the way I like to live. That's the way I've always run businesses and thought about businesses. But the depression for me really needs drugs to help regulate and it was finding the right kind. And positive psychology, I feel like every day I walk around with this massive tool belt that it's, you know, is hanging on me. And I got a tool for this, I got a tool for this, I got a tool for this, I got a tool for this. You know, whether it's havening manifestations, whether it's journaling, I have all these tools, and it's giving me such a different perspective on life. It's night and day for me.
SPEAKER_00And this is interesting because CMOs are under pressure, but also leaders and founders are under pressure because the world is changing so fast. And it's really hard without those tools, like you said. And I think I learned them by reading so many different sales books and positive books because yeah, in my early career, I was told no, no, no. And then all of a sudden you start getting the yeses, and then that turns in. But you have to be able to switch into that mindset quickly, otherwise, you just give up.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's a whole mindset. It really is a mindset, and it's one that can be developed. And as you begin using these tools, these techniques, you are actually rewiring the synapses in your brain. Old behaviors no longer occur, the new behaviors are taking over. They've done a lot of research, for example, on gratitude. And the worse you feel, the more you need to be doing your gratitudes because having some space set for something that's positive versus negative, negative, negative is to swing the pendulum that way. And it's just neuroscience. They had the coolest job in the world bringing this into marketing organizations. I get so much personal satisfaction over seeing a leader or a team that is learning these new skills, who are using these techniques and to see them blossom and grow in a way that they never thought they could because everybody is under so much pressure all the time and then the burnout is very high. That is just a pure joy for me to see.
SPEAKER_00Interesting because they do go hand in hand, the positivity with the learning of the new tools, because you have to be in a positive mindset to embrace something new.
SPEAKER_01You do, you do. And for me, it was a little bit of the pendulum, it was like swinging, negative, positive, but but it kept itching up like that. So as I was rewiring my own brain, there's a good slide, but then it'd go up a little more slide. It's not a it's not a one-trick pony for sure. And it also has to be used. What good is learning a skill or or a tool if you don't put it to use? These are going to be people who are motivated. These are people who want to grow, these are people who want to learn, and those are the people that are going to embrace this. And if they are completely locked down and don't want to grow and learn, there's nothing you can do about those people except for fire them, get them off your team because they will ruin your entire team. We don't have time for that.
SPEAKER_00What are if you practical ways leaders can use it to make better decisions if they're under pressure?
SPEAKER_01Let's talk about decision making under stress. When you're in a high stress situation, your thinking and your your outlook and how you see opportunities just it narrows down like this. The first thing that you need to do is you need to reset your nervous system. It's so stupid and it's so simple, but you have to reset your nervous system. The first thing you do is recognize what's happening right now. What emotion are you feeling? Is it fear? Is it God, I can't do this? You have to stop and say, I need to recognize what's happening here. Okay. Then you need to do a reset. And one of the coolest things about positive psychology is doing some very simple things to calm down your nervous system. That's not the scientific term. We won't go into all of that. But if you can calm your nervous system, then you can again access the thinking part of your brain and your thinking goes back up like, you know, like that. Breathing, honest to God, three breaths, four breaths in, six out, or you can try the box breathing, whatever it is, fastest way to regulate your nervous system. There's a reason why people have panic attacks. They put their head between the legs and say, breathe. I know people that are breathing coaches. So breath is one of those things that has an instant impact on your nervous system. First thing you do is you recognize I'm freaking out. And then you say, I'm going to take a few breaths. And then what that does is it calms everything down. And your thinking opens back up again. You're not, oh my God, you're like, okay, let's now look at this. Where do we go from here? That's a super simple technique that you can do right there.
SPEAKER_00It's interesting because at the beginning of this year, I said, I'm going to do a five-minute meditation every morning and I'm going to stretch. I'm a runner and like to go distances, and foam rolling is great for me. So I listened to a five-minute meditation as I'm stretching and foam rolling, and it's five minutes. That has been life-changing in starting my day and starting my day with the fresh perspective. So when I was listening to you say this, I was thinking, it is amazing how much a little bit of that work and saying I'm going to do it every day. And the days that I don't do it, I feel it. I'm growing, she built it media, and I have podcast hosts, and we manage their podcasts. And I'm we talk about this conversation working with CMOs through owned media and helping companies grow through owned media. I see that stress. And it's interesting to think about the choices that I made earlier in the year. And I'm a twin mom, my husband travels, I'm managing a lot, I'm growing multiple businesses. But having that five minutes in the morning, and also I'm I've committed to lifting weights too, 20 to 30 minutes a day, and then also working out. But it's really those five minutes that set my day every morning.
SPEAKER_01And you know, what happens is that our brain never shuts down. We're looking for the next dopamine hit. One of the worst things you can do every morning is get out of bed and start looking at TikTok or Instagram for that next dopamine hit. And what we need to do is to find ways to quiet our brain, quiet the chatter. And even a five-minute meditation can have a huge impact on the rest of your day. And meditation is not for everybody. Some people hate it, some people love it. Yoga is also another good thing. Movement of any kind, movement for me is my predictor of success for the day. If I get up and I work out, I'm gonna have a great day. If I miss that workout, it's not as good. The breathing, working ways to try to calm your brain down, taking a look, honestly, at the emotion that you're feeling right now and giving a name also has a lot of power. We're never taught to identify our emotions and recognize our emotions. A lot of people don't even like to say they have emotions, but they're real. And the way you take the power away from an emotion is to sit with it and say, okay, I am scared out of my bloody mind about going into that meeting. What's the worst that can happen? What's the best that can happen? And identify it, sit with it, and ask yourself those questions. And then everything calms down.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's amazing how mental it is. And with a few things, to your point, can change the trajectory. That's right. It absolutely can. It's such a great thing to think about because we all go through stressful moments in our day. And you're right, having those tools can help you go through your day so much more easily.
SPEAKER_01Well, stress can be good stress or bad stress. Think about the day you gave birth to your twins. You were stressed. Think about the day you got married. We were all stressed. So stress is stress, and these techniques work regardless of what that stress is coming from. It's experiencing stress. That's it.
SPEAKER_00You made me think. I think the most stressful moment was when they they brought the twins into the room and they were both crying, and the nurse left, and it was just me, but my husband was trying to get to the room. It was just me with the two babies, and I remember looking down thinking, I can't pick them both up at the same time. All of these things I see go into my business world every day, the having to navigate twins and navigate all those situations because life is pretty predictable.
SPEAKER_01I separate what I do into two areas. There is, yes, let's talk about how you can better navigate stress, but then there's this whole part, how to flourish at work. And those are skills like resilience, hope, meaning, purpose. I love doing work around meaning and purpose with marketers. It's amazing when you ask them that question. I did a workshop recently for a group of marketing ops professionals, and it was uh leading with purpose. And I asked them to write down their purpose, and you thought that I had asked them for something they had never heard of, and they're they looked at me with their eyes like this purpose. Wait, wait, I have a purpose. Yes, you have a purpose in your job. You have a purpose in your life. So we're gonna explore that. It's not the elements of uh these tools and techniques for handling stress, but also the pure flourishing side of it, leading with meaning, purpose, hope, all of those things make a really big impact on not how you show up to work every day and how you do, but also on your life, period. So these skills are can be used anywhere, regardless.
SPEAKER_00And that's so interesting how siloed we can become. Because when you say that they look at you with the purpose, they if they never thought about their purpose.
SPEAKER_01And a lot of times you can combine something like character strengths, for example. There are 24 globally recognized character strengths, heavy duty research into this area. You can take an online assessment at VIA.com, and strengths are across all cultures. And so when I took mine, my top three were bravery, love of learning, and it was uh creativity, but not creativity like writing, drawing, creativity more around creating something from nothing. This whole idea of positive psychology for marketers. And you combine that with purpose and meaning, and then you have marketers that show up every day thinking, wow, I'm here. I I have a purpose. These is what I'm really good at. This is how I can use this every day. So it's not how to manage that stress, but you know, how to flourish at work as well.
SPEAKER_00And along the lines of purpose, we've talked a lot about business today. How do you make sure that you are finding and living your joy each day?
SPEAKER_01I actually I wear a bracelet. It's uh lead with purpose. And purpose and joy are not necessarily the same thing. They're closely related, don't get me wrong, but finding joy for some people needs to be intentional and scripted. For example, I did a whole map of what I wanted to accomplish in 2026, and one of them was find more joy. That was one of my main levers for that. I made it intentional. I didn't wait for it to show up. I want to have more joy in my life. What brings me joy and what can I do more of that I that I'm not doing right now? For me, it was spending more time on my boat because my house is right on the water and I live in Pensacola. And the other thing was Latin dancing. So I started Latin dance classes. Just brings me absolute pure joy.
SPEAKER_00I love it. It's so fun. And for leaders, oftentimes we have to schedule it in and make the time, especially if we love what we do, because I love what I do and I can get so, and so many of the women that I talk to also love what they do.
SPEAKER_01So there's joy in what you do too. It doesn't have to be a hobby. It it took me a while. I I have two daughters, wonderful, fierce, independent, corporate, kick-ass women. They don't live to work. But I love what I do, and what I do brings me great joy. When I can sit down with a leadership team and take them from being discombobulated, burnt out, stressed, and then take them into a place where, you know, they're standing taller, their shoulders are back, the sky is shining, and they are able to bring the gifts and the talents that they have to make a difference. That brings me joy. So it doesn't always have to be a hobby. People like us who are entrepreneurs, this is we find joy in what we do as well.
SPEAKER_00Thank you so much for joining us today. And what you are creating a building is needed today with the the changing marketing strategies now more than ever. Please share with us how and where we can find you.
SPEAKER_01Yes, growthfactor.us is my website. Also, Melanie, I have a special asset for you that I'm going to send to you and then you can make available is the leadership reset. And it's a 10 minute exercise you can do at your desk when that stress is pounding on you and you've got to get to the next meeting.