BeerWise Podcast
The BeerWise Podcast, hosted by Mark DeNote, editor of Florida Beer News, delves into the dynamic world of craft beer, offering listeners a comprehensive look at industry trends, news, and in-depth interviews with key figures shaping the beer landscape.
Each episode explores the past, present, and future of brewing, providing insights into the evolution of beer styles, brewing techniques, and the stories behind renowned breweries. Whether you're a seasoned beer enthusiast or new to the craft beer scene, BeerWise serves as an engaging platform to expand your knowledge and appreciation for the art of brewing and craft beer culture.
BeerWise Podcast
Ep. 36: Wayne Wambles of Griffon & Sphynx Brewing Company
Wayne Wambles, the founding brewer of Cigar City Brewing, joins us for an engaging conversation that promises an enlightening exploration of the craft beer world. Wayne talks us through his career from his beginnings in Dothan, Alabama, to becoming synonymous with Tampa's beer scene. Hear about his journey through unique legal hurdles and professional challenges, all the way to his innovative work at Griffin and Sphinx in Brevard, North Carolina. It's a story of passion, resilience, and the enduring allure of brewing.
The episode talks about Wayne's creative process in crafting beers like Hunahpu's Imperial Stout and Jai Alai IPA. Experience the evolution of these beers and the pivotal moments that have shaped his career. Wayne shares insights into the delicate balancing act of brewing—where market demands meet personal standards meet innovative ideas meet traditional brewing techniques, speaking about flexibility and innovation in a rapidly changing industry.
Finally, we turn our focus to the excitement and challenges of launching Griffin and Sphinx. Wayne opens up about the joy of starting small, the thrill of homebrewing, and how these experiences have shaped his current venture. We discuss the brewery's commitment to quality, the innovation of low-alcohol beers, and Wayne's current favorites like a unique Irish red ale. This episode is a rich tapestry of brewing philosophy, growth, and the pursuit of crafting beers that are both nostalgic and forward-thinking.
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Hello and welcome back to the BeerWise podcast. This is the podcast that looks at what's going on in the world beer-wise. Hello and welcome back to the BeerWise podcast. I'm your host, mark Denote, and I'm the editor of Florida Beer News. Back to the BeerWise podcast. I'm your host, mark Deneute, and I'm the editor of Florida Beer News. This is our first episode of 2025.
Speaker 1:This episode I'm joined by Wayne Wombles, the founding brewer of Cigar City Brewing, the creator of Highlight IPA, hunapu's Imperial Stout and so many other beers that have become synonymous with the state of Florida. Wayne began his career in the small town of Dothan, alabama, and brewed for several breweries before making his way to Tampa and, ultimately, cigar City Brewing. Wayne was a part of Cigar City until recently and after his time there, he opened a small brewery in Brevard, north Carolina, named Griffin and Sphinx. Wayne has returned to the brew deck and is a one-man team in the brew house, making each beer to his specifications and keeping the taps stocked. I couldn't pass up the chance to talk to Wayne about the bygone era of brewing history, like Florida in the 1990s, and asked him to recall that era of brewing. We also talk a little bit about his time at CCB about Highlight IPA and then why he chose now to return to the brew house.
Speaker 1:A note about this conversation before you listen. There are a few lapses and restarts because we recorded while Wayne was brewing, and also some ambient noise because we sat in the tasting room while guests were enjoying their beers, including a family that had come all the way from Tampa to sample Wayne's new endeavor. Here's our conversation. Wayne, thank you so much for hosting me. It's great to see you, and it's great to be at Griffin and Sphinx. So thanks for thanks so much for hosting me and, gosh, it's great to see your place, man.
Speaker 2:Oh man, thank you for driving up here and giving me this opportunity to talk more about Griffin and Sphinx and what's to come in the future I'm excited about that I want to.
Speaker 1:Just because you are so connected with Florida, I do want to go back in time with you a little bit and can you talk about your first professional brewing job and what the beer scene was like when you started? And it was Tallahassee. Was it Tallahassee or Dothan where you started?
Speaker 2:Dothan, alabama, and the brew pub was called Poplar Head Mule Company. Okay, and it was in a historic building, which you know by state Alabama state law. In order to open a brewery, it had to be located in a historic building and it also had to be in a county that produced beer prior to prohibition. So those are the big stipulations in order to open a brewery in the state of Alabama in 1997 or so. That's crazy yeah.
Speaker 1:And so there was only a limited amount of places that could hold a brewery, only so many historic buildings that you could have gone to then.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and eventually I think they did change the law, but that was what it was like in the 90s and then.
Speaker 1:So what brought you to Tallahassee? Because you were brewing in Tallahassee at one point. You were at Buckhead.
Speaker 2:Yeah, tallahassee came after Dothan, Okay, but Dothan kind of happened twice. Okay, the first time that I was working at Dothan old Poplarhead Mule Company in Dothan, roy Milner was. He was doing all the brewing there but he was about to leave. So he recommended me and trained me to take over his position. And there was a friend of the family that was out of the country, in Panama, and I guess Roy had worked with him some too in the past. He had less experience than I did. So I basically worked as the brewer for Poplar Head for like a month and um, and then this guy came back in town and I guess, uh, uh, didn't like the fact that or assume that he was supposed to have the role that I was given. They demoted me to wait staff and two weeks later I quit and then, about a year and a half later, this guy had infected everything in the brewery. They had let him go and, uh, at this point they still weren't ready to hire me back, even though I had more experience. So basically what it came down to was uh, uh, a colleague of mine named Gary Essex was working in the Panhandle Silver Sands factory outlet. Dang it, it was.
Speaker 2:Harbor Docks was what it was called Harbor Docks, and they contacted him to do contract work there. And once he started doing contract work he asked if you know I wanted to come and help him out. So I was helping him out obviously not, you know, helping out for free, not not receiving any income and basically it got to the point to where he told them if you don't hire wayne to take over this position, I'm not going to do contract work for you and you're not going to have another brewer. So he put them in a situation where they took me on and then I worked there for I don't know a year, maybe a year and a half, and it just wasn't going in the right direction.
Speaker 2:I didn't think there was a lot of value by the management on what I was doing or the quality of beer. Obviously they didn't want to produce and serve infected beer, but there wasn't enough emphasis on what I was doing. So Gary had made the decision to leave Harbor Docks and he actually opened Tallahassee Buckhead Brewery and Grill. That was his first commercial job, okay, but he was coerced by Harbor Docs to go work for them. So he left Buckhead Brewery and went to work for Harbor Docs and I guess he didn't feel like things were going all that well at Harbor Docs so he left and went back to Buckhead Brewery with new promises from the Buckhead Brewery owner and when he did that he started working on opening a brewery in Stockbridge, georgia, which is just south of Atlanta. But he needed someone to run the Tallahassee location.
Speaker 1:So he brought me on and that's how my role in Tallahassee began at Buckhead okay, okay, and then then from there, from there you were, you uh were around brewing and you a major way you were in Foothills and then down to that's. Then, after Foothills was where you wound up with Cigar City.
Speaker 2:Uh, with a few, probably a few stops I missed in the in between yeah, and they're not all that important, so it's there's no reason to cover them anyway. Sure, sure, um what was?
Speaker 1:what was the beer scene like in that era in tallahassee, when you were getting started, was there, um, especially I mean I say that because that era of beer is kind of forgotten what was the beer scene like in terms of the people and in terms of the beer? What do you remember, what you brewed back then?
Speaker 2:uh, from the 90s, late 90s, yeah, it wasn't. Uh, I don't know. I mean, I don't think ipa was all that popular pale ales were, okay, you know, like most things dark weren't considered, weren't something you're gonna move a lot of volume of.
Speaker 1:Was there an emphasis on any tradition like English or Belgian, or were any of those styles coming into vogue?
Speaker 2:back then Not in the Southeast, it was. I mean, it really was that stereotypical thing that you think of when you think of 90s beer, like amber ale, you know, like light ale Honey beers were actually really big. Back then People were making quite a few like light ale Honey beers were actually really big. Back then People were making quite a few like light colored honey beers. People were trying to make lagers but I never felt like they were making them very well. It wasn't all that exciting.
Speaker 1:To put it simply, Sure, that's the sense that I got from others in interviewing that time period too, but there's so many, like forgotten businesses, um, that have kind of come and gone and were washed away by the tide of history, that it's interesting to talk about that time period and what people were drinking too, because it's so different than what it is today yep, definitely yeah, and in some ways it's.
Speaker 2:There are some similarities. You know we're seeing're seeing a reemergence of amber and red beers. I know they're not exactly the same as they were in the 90s, but I think to some degree there is some sort of recirculation, at least to a small part.
Speaker 1:There's an interest in lager for sure. I don't know if it was akin to back then, but lager seems to finally be having its time in the sun. That was probably that everybody thought was happening. For so long it was the year of lager, until all of a sudden it was.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I definitely think there's more focus on it and I mean I hope consumers take to it and appreciate craft lager, because it's in my opinion it's obviously different than macro lager.
Speaker 1:After that, what do you remember most about going from all of those paths to CCB and CCB really being where I met you and where so many of the beers are still around and still being talked about? What do you remember about the road to opening Cigar City Brewing?
Speaker 2:It was a lot of work, man. I mean, I was put in a role I'd never been put in before because I had to find contractors and I never had to start from the very, very, very beginning. Okay, so I had to find contractors, you know, engineers, all kinds of different stuff, and uh, you know if, if I had had to do that in the area that that we're in right now, I don't think I ever would have made it, because it's so hard to find contractors in this area. But there's a multitude of contractors in the Tampa area. So it was a little bit easier. It was just a matter of finding the right person at the right price who would do the right job.
Speaker 2:But that part was really complicated. The best part really was brewing. The pilots, and the pilots helped me realize that everything I'd sort of been storing up that I couldn't do commercially was going to be viable in this project. You know, good Gourd was one of those. Guava Grove, just the more esoteric beers, hunapu's Imperial Stealth I had held on to that for a little while Just the beers that had more culinary elements to them. This was the place to finally be able to launch them.
Speaker 1:What was the first one that you got to taste? And you were like, yes, that you were so excited to see.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, I think, Hunipu's imperial stout if we're talking about culinary inspired beers, the very first one um ended up uh, you know, placing first place at atlanta cask before we were even open. That happened in january 2009 and we didn't open until march 2009 to the public. So what was that like for someone who is a brew master, who is who?
Speaker 1:is running a brewery for the first time, as the buck stops with you. What so? What was that like for someone who is a brewmaster, who is running a brewery for the first time, as the buck stops with you? What was that like winning Atlanta Cask with that beer?
Speaker 2:It was incredibly encouraging, unexpected, and it was, you know, it just seemed like there was a lot of promise, you know, from this point on. So, yeah, it was a lot of promise from this point on. So, yeah, it was a great, it was an amazing event.
Speaker 1:Because I remember that video where they listed off everything they tasted in that beer and there were like a page worth of adjectives and ingredients that they said they could taste from that and that must have been really, really cool.
Speaker 2:Definitely.
Speaker 1:yeah, no doubt I want to talk a little bit about speaking of beers that you did with CCB, high Lye. How many test batches did it take to get High Lye where you wanted it?
Speaker 2:So I only brewed one pilot of it and it did not turn out like I wanted it to and it didn't yield very well, okay, but I could already tell that the hop bill was going to work. Okay. The biggest issue was it had too much toasted malt and that needed to be shaved back because it was really cutting into the hop expression. And that was the only pilot that I got and it went from that to 15 barrel batches. Obviously there was a little bit of. There was definitely some more finessing that took place as we continued to brew it on large scale.
Speaker 2:We also had issues with inconsistent raw material supply because we were a small producer and we didn't have access to. You know, we couldn't select or anything like that. So it kind of puts us in a situation where we're buying on the spot market and we're kind of at the mercy of certain things. You know, throughout the history of that beer, certain things had to change just because of hop availability. I don't know hop availability, I don't know. It kind of I'd say it kind of stabilized after two or three months, but it wasn't. I don't. I never felt like it was terribly different. It was always within that you know realm of of what my original idea was. There were just subs we had to make, sometimes just to be able to produce it. Okay.
Speaker 1:Were you ever worried that? It always blows my mind to think that you guys started with a seven and a half percent IPA and an English brown ale as your cores and you built from there. But did it ever worry you that that beer was too big for drinkers or for the audience that was going to be drinking it, in terms of seven and a half percent ABV or the? Just how hoppy it was.
Speaker 2:No, I intentionally did that and you know I wanted it to be a big beer. Okay, it was a different market in 2009. It was a completely different time and people definitely weren't opposed to 7.5% IPA, okay, so there was no reason to not do it and you know, I never felt likeailai was a super hoppy beer if you think about what it was like in 2009 10 or so, I you know it was. It was made to be a more balanced ipa, okay, um, and one of the big focal points was trying to create a, an ipa that was had a tropical expression that you know, so you could. It was like drinking Florida, which is in the subtropics, and that was something I wanted that beer to emulate. But I wanted it to. Um, I didn't. You know, I wanted some of some caramel sweetness to help balance out the bitterness. It was more about hop flavor to me and hop aroma and less about having like palate battering bitterness.
Speaker 1:okay which was which was coming into vogue at that time.
Speaker 2:The palate battering bitterness was the way a lot of ipas were going and chasing ibus, okay, okay one of our sales guys said the uh, the thing that made highlight so successful, in his opinion, was that it was an IPA for non-IPA drinkers.
Speaker 1:Okay, and that it was really. It had everything in terms of both a little bit of bitterness but sweetness, and some fruit flavor fruit to it as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was balanced compared to other ones.
Speaker 1:Okay, um so what then? So then was the first metal that you ever won for GABF was Humidor IPA, for with Cig, with cigar city, you had won previously. Yeah, okay, what were the previous medals?
Speaker 2:uh, it was at um buckhead brewing grill. Okay, so the first year I took two medals at gabf and it was third place and gold medal for strong Scotch Ale.
Speaker 1:Okay and was that a forefather of Big Sound?
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1:So once you won the medal with Humidor IPA, did that start to move more beer? What was winning that medal like with CCB?
Speaker 2:I don't know that it moved more beer. It definitely influenced Barrel Mill to make more spirals for us and that kind of opened up a new possibility, because once we got them to do something besides French and American oak, we got them to consider other possibilities and that opened up a whole new opportunity for exploration.
Speaker 1:How did? Are you still? Do you feel like that cedar or those spirals? Do you feel like that was explored out, or do you feel like there's still some exploration to be done with that particular wood?
Speaker 2:The biggest thing about that wood is the quality you know like and it's. It's hard to find the right quality and if you don't get the right quality it it really has a negative impact. Okay, on beer, it um and but that you know, cedar wasn't my idea, that was joey's idea, so it was more about once I understood how it you know what kind of things that imparted into beer. Then it was my, it was my goal to try to figure out what to put it into, like how to make it work in beer and you guys put it in.
Speaker 1:There were a fair number of beers, I mean ipa, there was a sour at one point, there was a zooka at one point. There were a number of beers that really were that had that cedar influence and that spice to it and then it kind of you guys were kind of the forefront of that exploration and then it kind of died off when CCB wasn't doing a lot of cedar anymore. I didn't see a lot of breweries doing that. Do you feel like that there's? You feel like you could still that there are other beers that that could be put into, or do you do you plan on doing anything with with that wood anymore?
Speaker 2:I would have to have a conversation with richard at barrel mill. Okay, right now we're in formative stages as griffin and sphinx and we don't have all the technology and the gadgets that I had at cigar city, all the bells and whistles, yeah okay, um, what is?
Speaker 1:what's your favorite memory of Cigar City?
Speaker 2:I think just the earlier days, before we became more corporate and before we had a marketing team that had too much input into production Okay, too much input into production when I started being reined back, that's when things sort of lost their shine. Okay, and I can't tell you exactly which years those were, but I would guess it was prior to 2016.
Speaker 1:Okay, and then what are you most proud of from your time at CCB?
Speaker 2:I just think we did some incredibly innovative things and it was an opportunity, finally an opportunity to produce these culinary beers that I had been holding back on for so long because there wasn't a consumer market that was ready for it yet. Okay, and you know, it was just so refreshing to see a market that was open to my ideas that I've been, you know, like fostering and holding back since, you know, the late 90s. Um, that's awesome, yeah yeah.
Speaker 1:So now on to. I want to talk more obviously about Griffin and Spinks, where we sit today. So what was it that? So what brought you back? What brought you back into the small brewery space? And obviously you're up here in Brevard, but what was? What was it that called you back to the brew, to the brew house in the small brewery environment?
Speaker 2:I feel like, as a new brewery, you can't you know, we have a different market now. It's not the same market as it was in 2009. Sure, things have changed drastically. There are a significant amount like significantly more breweries than there were in 2009. And Griffin and Sphinx is a new business. There aren't a lot of people that know that I'm behind it or really anything about us, and I think it's important to start on a smaller scale because of that. So that's one of the big reasons why a smaller system and this was basically a turnkey and I was made aware of the opportunity in April of this year, 2024. And the first thing I did was I brewed beer you know, brewed beer with John on the system because I wanted to make sure it was a system I could tolerate. But I think that, uh, I think that starting small with the way the market is right now is a much safer way to go about building the business and gaining exposure, and it's a five barrel system.
Speaker 2:It's actually a three and a half. Okay, I can get four barrels out of it, not with bigger beers, but yeah, it's a three-and-a-half system with seven-barrel fermenters.
Speaker 1:How long? Because you were head brewer and head of operations. How long had it been since you brewed a beer when you first started back here?
Speaker 2:It was a long time. I mean, the majority of the brewing I was doing was at home, okay, and that started about. It was the year before last. So 2022 is when I started brewing at home again and just at first it was like like man, why do I suck so much? You know, like this is uh, this, this is really uh, it's really tough. And it was because I didn't have everything in place at home and I was trying to set things up and have like a process and have all the right equipment to do what I needed to do.
Speaker 2:Okay, now it's just like clockwork and I still brew at home, by the way, but when I started brewing at home again, it really reinvigorated me to. It just reminded me of how much I enjoy actually being hands-on and brewing beer, and that's something I never could do at this stage in Cigar City or towards the later years. It would be impossible to make all that beer one person for one person, to make all that beer, sure, um, and it really does matter to me because, you know, looking at all the specs, ph, all that stuff, it's super important and, uh, I feel like when I put my hands on it, if it goes uh, if something goes downhill or if it's not to my spec, you know I know exactly why that happened and, um, you know I know how to fix it the next time. Okay, uh, but I I do my best to not let that happen. Sure you know.
Speaker 1:But, yeah, it's, it's, uh, I really enjoy brewing you know good and honestly with all of the bad in the beer industry. I think it's really good to see you brewing and hands-on again, because that means that you see something. You see something in the beer industry that brought you, that kept you here and is there. What is it about in your words? Because I mean, that's what it was for me. What was it that do you feel like? As an artist, you still have something that you want to share and express. Is it as? What is it that keeps you brewing right now?
Speaker 2:Just being able to take a concept and bring it into reality and trying to nail all the specs and really thinking through all the specs before I ever start brewing. Um, you know, and it's not just the specs, it's the raw materials being used, how they're being utilized, um, all those things, and I, you know, I just think that this is the closest I've been to really getting things exactly where I want them to be, and it's taken me a really long time to get here, but I think there's a lot of attention to detail that I overlooked in the past, and in the last two years, I think I've really fine-tuned it and gotten to a great place. That's awesome, that's awesome.
Speaker 1:That's awesome In terms of Griffin and Spinks. What would you say? What kind of beers are you brewing here? If you had to kind of paint with a broad stroke, what kind of beers can someone expect to enjoy here?
Speaker 2:I'd say primarily lagers and hop-forward beers, but I try to set it up in such a way to where there's a lot of variety and I also have a focus on low alcohol versions of everything. Not on tap all the time, but you know, like have XP on tap right now, australian style, so it's the lowest alcohol out of all the hop forward beers that I have. Right now it's a four and a half percent Um, but I also have a Munich Dunkel that is 4.3% and that style, the low end of that style, is 4.8%. Okay, and right now I'm in the middle of brewing a Helles lager that will be 4% and the low end of that cell is 4.8%. So I just think that's another thing that I learned from working with the NA project, with Canarchy.
Speaker 2:I learned a lot about what you lose when you take certain things out of beer. You lose when you take certain things out of beer and that gave me a lot of insight into what to do to preserve things in lower alcohol versions of styles. And I think that might be something that the market would be interested in, because we have NA and we have standard ABV levels there has to be interested in, you know, because we have NA and we have standard ABV levels. There has to be something in between, like what I'm doing, that people would be interested in, especially if they don't feel like they're sacrificing much flavor or mouthfeel or aroma, and that's definitely a big part of what I'm trying to do here.
Speaker 1:Okay, what made you choose this area for for your, for your new?
Speaker 2:brewery. I think it was the the opportunity and the timing Okay, um, uh, john reached out to me in April and I was laid off in February, early February, so it just it just made sense. You know, like it was pretty much a turnkey brewery and the size of the brewery fit my idea of what a start, what size a startup brewery should be okay. So it just uh ended up being uh, you know like it was synchronicity. I guess it just kind of happened in the right way.
Speaker 1:That's awesome so it's it's funny to hear you talk about the low abV. Do you see yourself going back to the high ABV beers at all? Do you see any room there?
Speaker 2:Unless there's consumer demand for it. Unless I have customers come in and say we really would like to see more of this or that, and I don't have a whole lot of interest in doing high alcohol things, I'm not opposed to it. I mean I think I would, you know, probably make a barley wine. You know, small volume or there would definitely be considerations, but I don't see myself making a triple IPA anytime soon.
Speaker 1:Okay, well, you know, if you made a barley wine, you can make a small beer off of the second runnings and have that as part of the low ABV stuff. Yeah, yeah, okay, okay. After that, what keeps you inspired? So we talked about your brewing ideas, and then what is it? Where are the new ideas coming from? Where are? Where is your inspiration for new beers or beers that you want to add to your recipe book or you want to paint a new picture with?
Speaker 2:A lot of them are actually older ideas that have been you know like that have been renewed, you know like that have been updated. But it's kind of strange. Once, in the very beginning, when I started trying to determine what I was going to brew at this location, I kind of had like a writer's block, but then once I started brewing stuff, it kind of started falling into place and then it was like just one thing after another came to me and and also stand back and I look at the draft board and I'm like what, what's missing here? You know like, as as a consumer, what else would I want on this board? What would be fulfilling, you know like, and you this board, what would be fulfilling, you know like, and you know what would?
Speaker 2:What would keep people here? Because they would feel that there there is nothing lacking. You know like there's. Or they could go through a multitude of things. Um, wouldn't get bored for a while. So all those kinds of things come to mind. Um, I'm not trying to do anything crazy or mind-blowing, I'm just simply trying to make great beer right now and I think once we get to the point where everything improves and we can afford more technology, then I think there will be a time to do some crazier stuff.
Speaker 1:Okay, you've always been your worst critic, then I think there will be a time to do some crazier stuff, okay, okay, how do you? You've always been your worst critic and I've noted that about you. How do you? Do you still find yourself being really hard on you? Where there's a beer, that's great, but in the consumer demand or the consumer feedback is good, but you always find that when you can improve, do you find yourself still having to be your?
Speaker 2:own worst critic, definitely, and you know like yeah, so some of this comes from, um, what I was talking about earlier about finally feeling like I'm in a place where I am, I am taking care of everything uh, from a brewing perspective and hitting targets that I might have ever looked in the past.
Speaker 2:So I'm still critical of what's going on, but at least I know from a technical and process approach that I'm hitting those targets in a tighter range than what I was before. Okay, so if a beer is not up to my standards, even though I've hit all those targets, then that usually means it's a raw material issue or it's, you know, like there's something I overlooked in recipe formulation. It's usually a small thing that needs to be slightly changed. Okay, and you know I'm also open. I'm more open to things now than I was before because before I would, I looked at things from my standards all the time. But if I make something and you know customers really like it and it's well made and it might not be my favorite thing, I don't have any problem making it. I'm proud of that. I'm not going to say that it would be the same thing as making a poor example of style or something like that, but I'm less harsh on myself in that way.
Speaker 1:I appreciate your time and I want to be mindful of it. I want to skip to. I always like to end every interview with six quick questions. A six pack, your game, okay. So first question what's your current favorite beer?
Speaker 2:It can be yours. It's my beer, because I don't. I work so much that I don't have a chance to go other places and drink other beers, okay, um, so the one I've been drinking the most of is the griffin, which is an irish red ale. Um, but it has too much roasted malt character in the finish, which makes it unique. Okay, so opens with caramel and then goes into red fruit from yeast, byproducts and hops, and then this, like eight to ten seconds after you swallow it, um, this roasted malt manifests itself on your palate and dries your palate out, and then you take another sip and the whole thing starts over again Caramel, red fruit espresso, caramel, red fruit, espresso. And since the dark malt dries your palate out, it makes you want to take another sip of it.
Speaker 2:Okay, but I've really been ping-ponging back and forth between the Griffin and Winter Ale too, which it's kind of like some of my Christmas memories in liquid form. So it's, my grandmother used to make what she called icebox cake, which is nothing like the icebox cake that you see now. It's. Basically she used ground nuts to hold fruitcake together. She used ground nuts to hold fruit cake together.
Speaker 2:Okay, um, and so this beer has some of those fruit cake like notes, but the, the sweet ground nuts that hold the fruit together, are represented by caramel malts and toasted malts in this beer. And then the red fruit and citrus is actually coming from the hops and not from any fruit additions. And then it also has spruce. So the spruce starts to hit your palate mid-taste and then hangs in there and then lingers in the finish and it's the last thing you're left with. It just sits in your palate in the finish, which, once again, that sensation of having your palate dried out and wanting to take another sip to re-experience everything. I like that in sensory of beers. I think that a lot of times those can lead to successful beers. I don't think every beer has to drink that way, but those tend to be the ones that I really enjoy. Okay.
Speaker 1:Next, if you could only brew one style, what would it be?
Speaker 2:Only one style. God, this is a terrible question.
Speaker 1:That's probably one of the biggest compliments I've been given on that one. It means it's challenging. Biggest compliments I've been given. On that one it means it's challenging.
Speaker 2:It would have to be something that had some possibility, had some degree of flexibility.
Speaker 1:Okay, so I'm torn between something hoppy and lager which I'll both have all kinds of derivate, all kinds of different roads you could go down, okay, okay yeah, so it would have to be some sort of lager that it's okay for it to be hoppy too.
Speaker 2:Then I could make it either malty or I could make it hoppy and I could. You know, that gives me some leeway to be able to cover some area, okay.
Speaker 1:Okay, next question what's the last beer you had that changed your mind about something?
Speaker 2:I don't know. Actually, like I said, I don't get out very often anymore, but I'll tell you something that I thought was an amazing experience. I think it was last year. I was at the NBAA in Providence, rhode Island, and the brewmaster for Heineken presented and he presented. He gave everybody that attended the seminar a sample of regular Heineken, presented and he presented. He gave everybody that attended the seminar a sample of regular Heineken and a sample of Heineken Zero, and they basically told us how they did it. So what he had us do was drink the Heineken Zero first before drinking the regular Heineken. So basically what they did was they determined exactly which esters were the regular heineken. So basically what they did was they determined exactly which esters were in regular heineken and then were able to create that and add it back at the right levels to heineken zero.
Speaker 2:Okay, so when you smell the two, it's hard to tell a difference, but when you taste the two, it's drastically different. Um, the heineken zero if you start with it tastes like regular heineken and then, when you start with it tastes like regular Heineken. And then, when you start drinking, when you taste regular Heineken after it, it tastes like someone added a shot of vodka to your beer. So it just was an eye-opening thing where it kind of shows you how much ethanol, like mouthfeel and sweetness, it's adding to beer. You know, that was kind of eye-opening for me okay okay, um, the next question.
Speaker 1:When it comes to beer, what do you wish? You really understood?
Speaker 2:to consumer amen, amen.
Speaker 1:Yeah, very true there's, so it can be so fickle um the next question uh, what do you wish people knew about your brewery?
Speaker 2:I mean, like I said earlier, I think you know we really uh need the exposure. So just the fact that they knew about us period would be amazing. I'm really happy what we're doing here, quality wise and uh, I mean you look at the I think we offer a lot of variety. The only thing I'm short on right now is dark beers and have a Schwartz beer in the tank that I'm going to move at the beginning of next week, so that'll cover that area. So you know, just I would like for people to know about us, period, sure.
Speaker 1:Sure. And then finally, what's the greatest lesson you've learned in deer?
Speaker 2:A lot of patience and you're never going to learn everything. There's always something new to learn. I think those two things patience and being studious and attentive and constantly just being thirsty for knowledge Awesome.
Speaker 1:Thank you very much, wayne. As always, it's great to see you and it's great to see what you're doing with Griffin Sphinx.
Speaker 2:Thank you, Mark, so much Cheers.
Speaker 1:That was my conversation with Wayne Wombles of Griffin Sphinx Brewing Company in Brevard, north Carolina. My thanks to Wayne and Jessica for hosting me during my time in Brevard, and if you're visiting Brevard or Asheville, it's not too far, it's about 45 minutes. If you're visiting Brevard, be sure to check out Griffin and Sphinx and see what Wayne is cooking up. Are there any guests you'd like to hear on the show? Then please reach out I'm on social media at FLBeerNews or mark at FloridaBeerNewscom and let me know what's going on in your world. Beer wise. You could also complete our annual survey that's active right now to talk about what you want to see more of on the beer, on Florida Beer News and the podcast in 2025 and beyond. Please remember to like, subscribe and follow beer wise and your favorite podcast platform so you don't miss an episode. Also, please remember to review the show on your favorite platforms to help us reach new audiences.
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