Ep. 53: How State Politics Shapes Your Pint with Sam DeWitt

There are many factors that govern our beers, and many times, our favorite beers are shaped by laws most of us never read. I’m joined by Sam DeWitt, the state government affairs director for the Brewers Association, to translate the policy battles quietly reshaping craft beer across the country.

Sam pulls back the curtain on the biggest state-level issues: franchise laws that can lock a small brewer into a distributor for life, why self-distribution is still an “easy win” in states that don’t allow it, and how those rules change what makes it from a taproom to your local bar. We also talk about the real-world headwinds breweries face right now, from rising costs and tariffs to shrinking shelf space and changing drinking habits.

Then we get specific. Sam breaks down where franchise reform is gaining traction, why “Brews to Barns” could turn spent grain donations into meaningful excise tax relief, and what the Brewers Association is watching on the defensive side, including recurring tax pushes and efforts to lower the DUI BAC limit to 0.05. We also get into canned cocktails and “equivalency” bills, plus why some state guilds are struggling to keep up as brewery closures ripple through the industry.

If you care about independent beer, this one comes with a playbook: how to follow your state brewers guild, when to email lawmakers, and what to ask your favorite taproom so your support actually moves the needle. Subscribe, share this with a craft beer friend, and leave a review so more listeners can find Beerwise.

Transcript

Welcome And Sponsors

SPEAKER_00 0:21

Hello, and welcome back to the Beerwise Podcast. I'm your host, Mark Dinot, and I'm the editor of Florida Beer News. This episode, I'm joined by Sam DeWitt, the state government affairs manager for the Brewers Association. Sam works directly with lawmakers, regulators, and industry leaders to advocate for fair policies that support innovation, small business growth, and consumer choice within the beer industry. He brings a unique and inside look at what's happening in state politics around the country in all 50 states. But before we go to the interview, I need to thank Coppertail Brewing for their sponsorship. Coppertail Brewing has been making Florida-inspired and Tampa Brewed beer since 2014. Enjoy a free dive IPA, Unholy Triple, Cloud Dweller Hazy IPA, or night to importer and distribution throughout Florida. Thank you also to Barrel Aged Media and Events. Barrel Age Media and Events hosts beer tours, curated tastings, and other beer events wherever beer can be enjoyed. From in-home tastings with friends to a special beer party, even a corporate event or retreat dinner. Barrelaged media can give the your event more using the magic of craft beer. Now here's my conversation with Sam DeWitt. Sam, thank you very much for joining me on the podcast. And I'd love I'm excited to get your perspective on legislation that's going through the states that affects the average beer drinker. But can you talk before we get started a little bit about the the road that got you to this position with the Brewers Association?

SPEAKER_03 1:47

Sure. Yeah, I'd be happy to. And you know, thanks for having me on, Mark. This is great. Um I I love talking about this stuff. So having the opportunity um is is really terrific. Uh so um I started, you know, my political journey is kind of a kind of a volunteer-based uh situation. Um, but professionally, you know, I I have a degree in journalism um from the University of Montana, um, worked as a journalist for a little while, moved around uh in that world working um kind of in the user-generated content field for a long time as an editor for a couple of startups. Um lost my taste for that completely uh as the journalism industry changed and didn't really want to do that anymore. So I kind of, you know, I wandered in the wilderness a bit. I attended bar for a couple of years, I ran a pizza restaurant, um, I did a lot of stuff that that had nothing to do with my degree um to kind of take it take a break from the burnout. Um and I was working a very lucrative contract job uh with a with a communications firm. Um, and a friend of mine called and said that uh there was a state lawmaker here in Colorado who uh was looking for a legislative aid. Um it would be a huge pay cut and terrible hours. Uh and could they interest me in making such a such an incredible jump? Um and uh, you know, doing it for the plot, I decided to go ahead and and go for it. Um, got the job, really learned the ins and outs of legislation and how to work a bill and and the importance of stakeholdering and working within the system to get things done. Um so that was a great experience. I also happened to work for maybe the hardest working member of the Colorado State Legislature, um, who also worked me very hard. It was not uncommon to get emails at at four and five o'clock in the morning. She would get up and get on the treadmill and send me uh bills and her thoughts and ask for my thoughts, and we we'd work on that stuff together. So that was really, really um important to my development and kind of the growing passion for policy. Um from there, I went and was the communications director for a healthcare um trade association, the Colorado Healthcare Association. Um was there for a couple of years, then went to uh and started kind of lobbying career um with uh Compassion and Choices, which is a medical nonprofit that pushes for medical aid and dying as a as an option for terminally ill patients at the end of their lives. Um so you know, I I was working that job, I was there for about five years and really burned out. I mean, talking about death every day is a difficult situation uh in the best of times. Um doing it and knowing that every state capital I walked into, it's like, oh, here comes the death guy again. Um and so, you know, I was I was ready to move on. And one night I was on an assignment, I was in uh Las Vegas um and uh cruising LinkedIn as one does while they're you know kind of burned out and looking for something new. Um, and uh the job posting came up for the Brewers Association. Um, and I sent it to my wife. I read through it, I was like, oh my God, this is if this is if there is a dream job, this is it. And I sent it to my wife, and she said something along the lines of, I think you were created in a lab to do that job. Um, so you gotta apply. And she helped me work on my resume, which hadn't been updated in five years, you know, got everything together and and sent it off. And uh yeah, that was 2022. Um, and so I've been doing this this work as state government affairs manager and now state government affairs director uh ever since. Awesome.

Why Craft Beer Gets Support

SPEAKER_00 5:47

Awesome. Well, uh it's uh and it's a lot of states to keep track of, too, in this in everything that you have in your role. Um can you talk a little bit about the current landscape that you're dealing with in politics surrounding uh craft beer?

SPEAKER_03 6:02

Yeah, I mean, we have um we have a really positive reputation in those states. Everybody loves the craft brewers. Um we get to be a gathering place for community. Um it's a family-friendly place in most cases where um where people can bring their kids and uh the adults can have a conversation and the kids can, you know, we can't my wife and I have a a what we call a brewery box. Um it lives in our in our car and it's just got activities for the kids. And so like tellering pages and tablets and everything you can imagine that a kid would like, uh puzzles, things like that. And so it's it's just become like a weekend tradition and a place for us where we can actually connect with our friends um over a few beers and and enjoy each other's company. Um, but lawmakers really like that, and they, you know, they see these brewers as their constituents. Um, it doesn't hurt that our asks are relatively small as compared to like education funding or crumbling bridges. Um, but the bottom line is that everybody likes beer, everybody likes brewers. Um, it's nonpartisan in a way that most things aren't right now in the political climate. Um now it it it's also still a bipartisan issue on Capitol Hill. Um we have we have uh House and Senate Small Brewers Caucus. Um the chairs are from both parties, uh Senator Ron Ronwalton from Oregon and Lisa Murkowski from from uh Alaska. Um and then on the representative side, on the House side, Mike Kelly from Pennsylvania and Nikema Williams from Georgia. Um, you know, both sides are are represented, um, and they work on things that that uh and and um advocate for our members uh there in in Congress, which is really, really helpful. Um and there's over 100 members total across the two caucuses, um, which is great. You know, it's great to have a voice within the Capitol.

SPEAKER_00 8:01

And so then what are in general, what are the issues that craft brewers are most interested in at the state level right now? Is it state are are fran is franchise carve out and uh self-distribution still high on the list? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:17

I mean, there's only a handful of states that don't have self-distribution for craft brewers right now. Um, and those states are harder to operate a brewery in than, you know, especially if there are strict franchise laws. So basically you can't get out of your own tap room without using a wholesaler, and you can't uh if the wholesaler isn't giving you what you need, you can't seek another option. Um that's like a double whammy that that really ties the hands of a of a brewer. There are states where um you know you're paying 30, 35% to get it out the door of your brewery and into the door of your taproom, um, which is like a mile away, right? This isn't it's it's crazy that we have such a controlled marketplace like that and not an open market really at all. So, yeah, a lot of it is um is franchise related, self-distribution related. Um, historically, we've worked on direct-to-consumer shipping. Um that has slowed down a bit. Um, they're just, you know, if you're not a state that's that's uh separated from the mainland, um, you know, Alaska already has direct-to consumer shipping. Hawaii doesn't. Hawaii would love to have direct-to-consumer shipping, and they've introduced a bill again this year to try and get that. Um, but there it really makes sense. You know, there's I don't know if you know this, but Hawaii is quite the destination for people on vacation. Um so you you try a beer you love, right? You try a beer you love in Hawaii, and there's no option for you to get it back in the States unless you fly back to Hawaii, which um there's you know, there's gotta be a way around that. So um we're working on that legislation. You mentioned franchise reform. We have a handful of states where franchise reform is is under review um by the legislature. Ohio's been working on it for three years. Florida and Georgia, I know you're based in Florida. Um Florida and Georgia are both working, have both worked on franchise uh and self-distribution. Um in Wyoming two years ago, we passed franchise reform, um, which was you know a huge boon for the market. And you know, the the tricky part about it is we face opposition from the wholesalers and they have a great deal going. And I don't blame them even a little bit for wanting to keep the great deal that they have. They have exclusive rights to a product that isn't theirs in perpetuity. Uh that's as good as it gets for them, you know. But what we've seen in Wyoming is, you know, and we heard all the arguments that this is gonna decimate jobs of wholesalers and it's gonna hurt the economy, and there's gonna be unsafe product going out in the world and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It it has not materialized. And in fact, the the the law has been in effect for a year and a half, and nobody has actually left a wholesaler using the law. Interesting. However, their negotiations and their contracts have have gone better with the knowledge that they are able to leave. It incentivizes both parties to do right by the other. Instead of right now, you have the brewer who is incentivized to do right by the wholesaler, the wholesaler has no such incentive. Um, so it it's it's really it's been interesting to see how that is has developed since uh we passed that in 2024.

SPEAKER_00 11:49

And then so how does on top of all of this, how is it because at the state level, well, no, I mean, every state level you've got new legislators coming in and out all the time. Does that do you see that working to your advantage, or does that work against you in terms of having to educate a whole new prop of legislators?

SPEAKER_03 12:07

Sure. It's a bit of column A and bit of column B. Um, folks that have been there for a long time um tend to have made really good relationships with wholesalers. Uh, so it's hard to catch their ear at all. And the wholesalers um are much better off financially than our craft brewers. We are wherever we go, we are the scrappy insurgency. You know, we have to we have to do it with people power because we don't have we can't write them a check for the re-election fund and you know and hope to hope for the best. Um that's just not something that's not a uh level we can play at. Right. Um so you know, we do we do a lot of education of new members. Um we take the opportunity in Colorado, for example, we have the Great American Beer Festival. I tour around lawmakers, usually new lawmakers, every year, um, introduce them to brewers from their from their district, um, invite them to come to the tap room. Um, but also at Craft Brewers Conference, which moves cities every year. We we take around uh either legislators from that state. It's gonna be in Pennsylvania this year, it'll be in Philly. Um last year it was in Indianapianapolis. Um we had the director of their regulatory body come and tour CDC, um, which was great and eye-opening. You know, people think of beer as being um, and we've been told this. Uh I had a legislator tell me once that, well, why you know wine can shift and beer can't, because wine is a very high class product and beer isn't. Um, and that's not remotely true. Right. Um there was there was a time where that was true. Right. It's not true anymore. So um, you know, it's great to open their eyes to the realities that like craft beer is an economic driver in these cities. They walk the floor, the trade show floor at Kraft Brewers Conference, and they see ten thousand dollar tanks, you know, that that uh that uh uh companies have brought in um to sell to to members that are attending the the show. And it really is eye-opening to them to understand, you know, how many people are employed in this industry, not just in the tap room, not just in front of house, uh, not just in back of house, but like all the way around, right? It's it's trucking, it's shipping, it's aluminum, it's recycling, it's hospitality, tourism, sales. Like it is a huge industry with a massive footprint. And so when they see the difference, um it does, it does tend to open their eyes a bit.

SPEAKER_00 14:50

Okay, okay. And then so and you have to keep doing that, right? You essentially have to, you know, with new crops and new folks, you have to keep them through.

Bills To Watch Across States

SPEAKER_03 15:00

Yeah, and I mean thankfully in Colorado, when we show them around GABF, there's there is a brewery in every district, right? So no matter who we bring down to the to the show, we've got somebody at the show that we can introduce them to and have them chat with. You know, and they they tell they'll tell lawmakers a little bit about the headwinds that they're facing in the in the marketplace. Um, you know, people are drinking less. Uh there's there's a lot more in moderation and even rhetoric about no safe level that has entered the conversation, and people are taking that seriously. So there's less um the the market has grown a little bit smaller in that way. Uh more folks are are drinking less and maybe going out less. Um, COVID obviously had a huge impact on on everything that we do, uh, on taproom business in particular. Um, there are people who still just don't want to hang out inside with a bunch of other people. I can't fault them for it. Um you know, that's just the reality, and we have to find another way to get those folks to enjoy our products.

SPEAKER_00 16:02

From a state level, what are um what are there specific bills that you're watching right now or specific states that have uh that you would uh have called to act calls to action for?

Taxes Fees And The BAC Fight

SPEAKER_03 16:14

Yes. Um, you know, sessions have just gotten underway over the last couple of weeks, um, but we do have a few. Um Ohio is on their third year of or fourth year of franchise reform. Um uh a really good effort, really well organized. Um Nebraska introduced franchise reform legislation this week. Um, we have a hearing on that February 9th. Um, Florida and Georgia both have self-distribution. Um Florida's is actually franchise and self-distribution. We also have this new offensive priority called Bruise to Barnes that we're working on. Um this this kind of came out of uh Texas last year. Texas ran a bill uh that they called uh Beers for Steers. And um it was, I know it sounds hilarious, right? Um Barry, Texas, yeah. It's Barry, Texas. Uh so basically it's a it's an excise tax credit for brewers who donate their spent grain to farmers and ranchers. Um and it can be, you know, it's on a on a per dry weight pound of spent grain donated. But spent grain is extremely valuable to these farmers and to these ranchers. The livestock loves it, chickens like it, pigs like it. Uh, it's great for compost for farmers. Um, it's just it's a really it's got a lot of um a lot of nutrients that that isn't in traditional feed. Um and right now brewers are donating it. So we figured this is a way to to help the agriculture industry, right, to get more of this product into their farms and ranches. But it's also a way to put real money back in the pockets of our brewers who are struggling right now. Um, so we've got we've got brews to barns going in um Florida, where the Department of Ag is actually involved and really pushing for it. Um, the state of Pennsylvania is introducing, I think maybe today, they may have already done it today. Um so in like California is looking at an option to do it. Um, and then Texas will bring it back next year. They didn't quite get it over the line um last year, uh, but you know, it'll be back in 2027. And I it they're still working it, so I anticipate that it'll pass next year. Um, but that's a really big offensive issue, and we have a federal push for that as well. Um, we think there's a federal solution there as well, which you know helps twice, helps these brewers out twice um with their with their tax bill. And it's not, you know, it's not a tax giveaway because they are donating to an industry that is also struggling. Um so it it really um meets a lot of the of the criteria that we have for a successful piece of legislation. Okay. And then uh, you know, defensively, um, we have a couple um tax issues that we're that we're keeping a close eye on. Um there's an excise tax push every year in Oregon, every year in New Mexico, every year in New York. Um, so you know, these are things we're we're keeping an eye on. In Colorado, we have um you can't raise taxes without a vote of the people. So they put together a bill called an enterprise fee bill. Um, and so they've they they're we've seen drafts of a bill that would raise an enterprise fee on producers of alcoholic beverages to support uh recovery for um alcoholism in the state. We understand the desire to do that. We think you know there's probably better ways to do it. Currently, this is really in the weeds, but currently the the excess tax for for spirits and beer and wine all goes into the general fund. So it's just used for whatever the state needs. And instead of levying an additional tax or fee, we think it would be better if they redirected, you know, some of that money to recovery services instead of raising the taxes on. Yeah, yeah. So these these are the things we just are always on the lookout for. Um, there's a couple states that are looking at uh lowering the BAC level for drunk driving to 0.05 from 0.08. Um Washington passed it through one chamber this week, um, and will it'll be heard next week in in Washington state. Um you know, again, understand the idea behind it and um certainly are not pro-drunk driving. Right. Um but you know, how is a how is a bartender, how can a bartender tell the difference between somebody who's 0.04 and 0.08?

SPEAKER_01 21:05

You know, breathwater, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:08

There's not a way to, yeah, there's not a way to do that. Further, you know, 90% of the of the fatal crashes that involve alcohol, the person is above 0.10, which is already higher than the current legal limit. So, you know, our thought is if you if we actually punish the people who are recidivists who do it over and over again, that seems to be a better use of the law rather than you know um a changing behavior, but also making it more difficult for bartenders to to cut people off appropriately. So we're we're trying to talk ourselves uh into that process in states like Washington.

SPEAKER_00 21:49

I think Hawaii is introducing again uh places like that and so of those priorities that we're the the we're talking about, which I know you're hopeful for all of them, but where do you see um where do you see the greatest chances for uh successful legislate legislative changes?

SPEAKER_03 22:11

That's a great question. Um, you know, Bruce de Barnes is such a good it's such a good piece of legislation. We're we're really hopeful. You know, what we keep hearing from Brewers is, hey man, I I'm not making enough money. And and so putting money back in their pockets is like a worth pen of like any number of other legislative pushes. That being said, I think the franchise effort in Nebraska is um serious. Uh, it's really well organized. Um, they've got a strong sponsor for the legislation. Um, they're making the rounds. They're, you know, they're they're flying in our VP of government affairs, who's like a franchise law expert, to testify. Um it's it's a really good effort. The Ohio effort, I think, is really, really strong. Again, really well organized. The entire guild is behind it, the BA is behind it. Um, you know, Georgia is a tough state, and we've been we've been fighting with the wholesalers in Georgia for years and years. Um, they fight us on everything, and they're very well moneyed and and have a lot of pull in that building. Um, that being said, you know, we have a lot of people that are on on the same page and want self-distribution. Self-distribution would be a huge fix for that state. It would change things overnight for for crowdbrewers in the state, which I think is really, really important. And then um, you know, the the effort in Florida is is very serious as well. Um, the franchise and self-distribution piece. I, you know, they've been working on a bill they call freedom for beer uh for the past couple of years. You probably know all about this. Um, but it's I it's well organized, it's it's really easy to understand, um, and they have made headway. So it's it's just a question of finding some lawmakers who are willing to hear us out.

Canned Cocktails Versus Beer Taxes

SPEAKER_00 24:10

Gotcha. Gotcha. Changing changing gears a little a little bit. I want to, I know there was pushes years ago about uh trying about tax parity with um with beer and pan cocktails, beer and seltzers, beers and thcbd. Do you see that as a threat to beer? Do you see that as um how on a legislative level, where do you see beer and its new brothers and sisters or you know, or angry in-laws, however you want to regard them? Sure. Um where do you see them uh from a legislative level? Are they threats? Are they uh or are they just what they are?

SPEAKER_03 24:52

Yeah, it's a complicated question. Um, and I guess a complicated answer. Um there's no one size fits all answer for every state. There are states where brewers are making the seltzers, you know, there are states where brewers aren't making them, but they are packaging them and putting them out in the market for sale. Um, so they are seeing a return from this kind of new uh new product line. Um ultimately it is it does make it a little more difficult when wholesalers, you know, wholesalers only have so much room on their trucks. Right. And there's only so much room in the cold box. And at the end of the day, it's beer that has a shelf life, um, and it's beer that needs to stay cold. Uh and so there's limited space, you know, there's they're not gonna they're not gonna blow out the wall and add another cold box to a liquor store, right? And uh the shelf space in grocery is shrinking for alcoholic beverages, they're putting other things in there. Um, so it's it's really a question of the size of the market in whole, um, and as a whole, and and where beer fits in that. Um, so is it a threat? It really depends on the state. Um, we do get involved when a guild asks us to, and we do like grassroots around, I think we're gonna be grassroots in Oregon. They have an equivalent the equivalence bill for um canned cocktails uh in the state. So, you know, my my personal view is um you are claiming to have a premium beverage because you know, some of them, you know, in their marketing say uh made with real vodka, you know, that's a premiumization of a product. That's that's you claiming it's a premium product. So the ABV to me is not the crux of the issue. The crux of the issue is you're you're using a product in vodka, in rum, in whatever that is taxed at a higher level. And you don't have to do that. They can you can make a malt-based margarita-flavored cocktail, you know. They have that is beer or wine, and and they do, and they have. They are choosing this other product, and but they don't want to pay the freight on it. Um, so I I get I get the discussion on both ends. I really, really do. And um, you know, in in a perfect world, there's a place for all of those things in the cold box. Um, but I I don't think they should get a tax break to go along with it.

Guild Strain And Shipping Beer Direct

SPEAKER_00 27:38

Sure. Sure. Are you seeing it's along the same lines on the state level with the the amount of brewery closings and kind of kind of pivoting a little bit with the amount of brewery closings? Have you lost guilds? Have you lost I've heard stories of states where guilds are dissolving and um the the lobbying power isn't the same.

SPEAKER_03 27:59

I mean, there are certainly guilds where um there are there are several guild guilds where they don't have a full-time executive director, um, where they're operating with you know, a president of the guild board is a brewery owner, um, which is great. And we value those guilds just as much as we value one with an executive director. That being said, they have their own priorities, and it's usually in their own brewery and tap room, right? It has less to do with the overall state of affairs. Um, so they may not be able to drop everything and go to the state capitol and testify for a day. Um, they may not be able to attend the hill climb. So, you know, in those states, we are trying to pick up the ball a little bit and um and uh make sure that the legislative effort doesn't fall off. Um, but I I'd be lying if I said it wasn't a challenge. Um, there are states who have lost their executive director. Um, they've lost enough breweries or brewery members um that they just can't can't maintain that as a full-time position or even a part-time position. Um, so we do our best to to try and you know stand for them if they if they're unable to do it themselves. Gotcha. Gotcha.

SPEAKER_00 29:14

Okay. Um, and then uh are you seeing uh the other major uh major legal push right now, are you seeing momentum in either direction of uh shipping and tap shipping and direct to consumer? Um are there more states that might consider that, or is that is that issue kind of falling to the background?

SPEAKER_03 29:34

It's it is falling to the background. Um, a lot of breweries um are not, you know, we have limited political capital as it is. Sure. And to really affect that change, which may only help a quarter of a state's members, and that might be very generous. Um, it's hard to it's hard to generate support amongst the guilds um to to actually expend political capital to do something like that. Um for me, I you know, again, this is me talking. I I think it's a winner for any brewery to have it as an option. I do. I think having it on the table and having it on your website and being able to, let's say you win a gold medal at Great American Beer Festival or World Beer Cup, you are gonna get calls from people in other parts of the country who want to order your beer. Um, we have a great story. Uh, bow and arrow brewing in New Mexico. Um, was you know, it's a it's a woman-owned brewery, Native American-owned brewery. Um, the Today Show went to Albuquerque and did like a 10-minute segment on this brewery, this woman-owned, native-owned brewery, and they were inundated with calls for weeks asking if they could ship their beer. Um, they use New Mexico ingredients famously, and like um, and they, you know, they had to turn down sales. Well, in a time where every sale matters, if you can send another case out the door or another two cases out the door, it's gonna make a difference. Sure. Um, and it it opens up, you know, the possibility of long term at least, uh, being able to distribute to the places where you're where you're sending that beer. Um, you can make a case like um to a to a distributor in another state. Hey, we sent 30 cases here over the last six months. Do you want to pick us up and put people know our name? Do you want to pick us up and put them in liquor stores? Um, so I you know, it's more of a long-term play, and I think people are so focused and they should be on the right now and keeping their doors open and keeping their people hired. Like I I totally get it. I see both sides of it. Um, I I just think for now, um, it's got to sit on the back burner until we um can get a few other things accomplished.

Five-Year Policy Wins For Brewers

SPEAKER_00 32:02

Gotcha, gotcha. And that makes sense because in a post-COVID world, now we've shifted back to other well, we've opened tap rooms. That was a hot button issue. That's right. During COVID. So yeah, that makes sense. So then I want to switch and talk about uh the future. And then looking ahead, looking ahead five years, what do you think? What policy do you see would be the biggest boon, the biggest gift, the biggest positive change right now?

SPEAKER_03 32:29

Yeah, I I mean, we're we are in a tough time for breweries. People are drinking less, costs are rising, um, tariffs are hurting a lot of brewers. Um there's more competition. There's more competition for wholesaler space, retailer space, everything. Um given that, we have to be creative about the way uh that we not just help breweries keep their doors open, but actually thrive. Um things like Brews to Barnes, which we discussed earlier, um, you know, which could seriously lower a brewer's excise tax bill at the end of the year. Um the credit card competition act, which is a federal effort um that would help bring down the cost of uh processing credit card payments. Um that's the sort of thing that could help. It's a it's a small thing, but it but over time it it actually does add up to your money. Um it would help bring down uh swipe fees and then trade policies, um, you know, again, a federal issue that bolster American manufacturing businesses. Um, all of those would help brewers succeed long term. Additionally, the states that don't allow self-distribution, it's such that is such an easy win for craft brewers. It just is. It's just an easy win. There are all sorts of things facing brewers that that can't necessarily be addressed by wholesalers. Wholesalers work at scale and small brewers don't, and small businesses don't. So if there's a brewery and next door is a small cafe and they want to have your beer on tap, but they have a tiny walk-in or a single slot tegerator, you know, they can't order three kegs and meet the minimum. They can't meet the minimums, but also the brewery can't, you know, sell it directly to them and wheel it next door to put it on draft for them. It's just it's a it's just a blind spot in the market. Um, and I think like figuring that out and getting real self-distribution um in all 50 states would be a huge boon for the brewers. Um franchise law, having it be an actual open market and not a controlled market that is based on you know Reagan era policies would be, you know, the thing is people think franchise law came from Prohibition, but it didn't. Most of them were instituted in the 70s and 80s, um, some even later. Uh and it's you know, it wasn't handed down from Moses at the mount, right? This this right, this wasn't it, it's not on a stone tablet somewhere. Um it it just it was a way to level the playing field for small and independent wholesalers from the huge corporations that are now international conglomerates like AB and Bev, Molson Coors, you know, uh companies like that. Now that is completely flipped. There are 9,000 craft breweries in this country, and the wholesalers keep consolidating and they keep selling. These family-owned businesses are rare now. Now they're huge companies, they're the reasons of the world, they're Southern Glazers, they're you know, uh Breakthrough Beverage, like all of these companies are just massive, and so now we're protecting massive companies from small operators. It it just it has outlived its usefulness, and so you know, and we're not talking about tearing down three-tier, we're just talking about giving brewers a way to operate in the marketplace a little bit more freely. We love our wholesale partners, we do, and we value what they bring to the market, and we value, you know, the ones who are really good, they become family friends of these brewers. Yeah, you know, we invite them to to Fourth of July cookouts, and we, you know, they're what they bring for us is really, really important. We don't want to lose that, but we do if if somebody stops living up to their to their obligations, there needs to be a way for a brewer to get through that tough time and to find somebody who can do it, do what they need them to do.

SPEAKER_00 36:56

So then pushing it back to the beer drinker, how can the how can the average beer drinker, how can the average tap room guest help small independent brewers get movement on these complicated and important issues? Sure.

SPEAKER_03 37:13

Yeah, it's a great question. And you know, we've we've done some um grassroots efforts in certain states on certain issues. Florida's a great example, actually. Uh the free the beer, freedom for beer in Florida um is a public-facing, you know, effort where if you're a fan of craft beer, you can and should get involved and send your send your representative and senator a note saying that you support you know the bill that we're that we're trying to push through. Um but you know, it's it's just a matter of being involved. Um, if you care about these businesses, ask them what what headwinds they're facing. Ask them what would help. Join uh or sign up for the for the mailing list for your state brewers guild and get those updates when something is moving in the House or Senate and get involved. You know, you don't always have to go to the Capitol, you can submit written comment. Um, if it's something like D2C, tell them that you want beer delivered to your house. You know, that would make a huge difference. Um tell them, you know, tell tell them that the cost of beer is high and and helping to alleviate some of these costs would really help with that. Um so you just have to be involved, you just have to be aware. Um, but I mean the the place the place that starts is always the place that starts, right? It's it's always in the tap rooms with the owners of these breweries, with the owners of these beer halls, um, just to have the conversation and find out what what would help them most.

Six Rapid Questions On Beer

SPEAKER_00 38:49

Absolutely. Absolutely. Well Sam, thank you very much. I want to be respectful of your time, but I usually like to end every interview with six rapid fire questions. If your game okay. Yep, okay. So the first question of the sixth pack is what is your current favorite beer?

SPEAKER_03 39:06

Oh current favorite beer. Um it's a great question. Uh uh, I mean, I gotta keep it local. I I would probably say right now it is Westbound IPA from Westbound and Down Brewing Company here in Colorado. Okay. Um I'm a I'm a big West Coast IPA guy. Um they are in a lot of ways operating from a different, different instruction book than everybody else. They're just their beer is just every single one hits. Um honorable mention would be to Second Dawn, which is a relatively new brewer in my neighborhood. Um and they they make a really good Westie, but they they just won a couple Colorado Beer Awards for um a couple of their lighter beers, which are exceptional. And the beer I drink most there probably is their their Mexican lager, which is called Tijuana Champion.

SPEAKER_00 40:06

Okay, very good. Uh next, if you could only drink one style, what would it be?

SPEAKER_03 40:17

That's tough. Uh it would probably be a lager. Um it would probably be a lager. Just because it's it's easy to drink. I never get tired of it. Um, but boy, I'm tempted to, and it doesn't get you too hammered. Um, but I'm I'm tempted to I'm tempted to say uh IPA, I'm tempted to say West Coast, but okay.

SPEAKER_00 40:42

Um but you get the only style, so yeah, I'm coming back to it. I gotcha. It's tough, yeah. I gotcha. Okay. Uh number three, what's the last beer you had that changed your mind?

SPEAKER_01 40:58

Um I don't I don't drink a lot of barrel age stout. Okay. Um but I had one from oh, it was from Second Dawn.

SPEAKER_03 41:12

Um and it was uh it was a uh it was called Brewer's Breakfast, and it was a chocolate bourbon barrel aged stout. I had some friends over uh the day after New Year's um for a for a festival of barrel-aged beers and day of the dark. Um and we just we drank, I made a Quartetta and we made and we drank a bunch of dark beers and just had a great old time. Kids were running around all crazy and and the adults were enjoying some beers. Um, but that one, it was one of the first beers I had that day and it was like spectacular. Um, what a beer. What a beer.

SPEAKER_00 41:53

Very cool, very cool. Uh next, when it comes to beer, what do you wish you really understood?

SPEAKER_03 41:59

How to brew it successfully. Um, I have tried homebrewing. Uh, it requires an attention to detail and a scientific mind that I do not possess. Um, so you know, after after a few false starts and some bad batches, um, I've finally decided that I'm gonna let the professionals handle this from here on out, and uh I will gladly pay for good beer.

SPEAKER_00 42:26

A conclusion that I have also come to.

SPEAKER_03 42:29

Yeah, I'd love to make my own beer. I I think it's the coolest thing, and I enjoy the process. I enjoy learning about it. It's just I I'm just not good at it. I and sometimes you just gotta admit when you're beat.

SPEAKER_00 42:42

Um, next, what uh what do you wish people knew about the BA? Um that's a great question. Or your work within it. Uh however it's however it fits, but whatever if your work within it or the association itself.

SPEAKER_03 43:02

Um, I wish people knew about the BA just how many extremely dedicated, passionate people work there. I mean, it's the genuine care that our membership team puts into every interaction with members when they call or email is really something. The amount of uh brilliance that goes into events like Craft Movers Conference, like Great American Beer Festival, is astounding. I mean, these are these are they really know their stuff. And um there's there's no way to show that off, really. But man, what a bunch of dedicated professionals we have on our staff. It's I it's really something. There, it's a great place to work. I love it there. And um part of that is. you know the passion that you see at a at a brewery from the owner or the or the uh head brewer is the same kind of passion that you see at the beginning which I think is is really special awesome awesome and last um what's the greatest lesson you've learned in beer lesson I've learned in beer um don't be ashamed to order a flight okay don't be ashamed to order a flight also uh franchise law is is uh is real and it's it's really hard to overcome um it's it's something like we have to explain it to lawmakers they don't understand that it exists um uh I didn't know what it was before I came to work to the BA um but it is it is a significant piece of legislation um that you know really makes it difficult for small businesses to thrive.

SPEAKER_00 45:05

I hosted a a panel of brewers one time and there were I think six people on the panel and um I I was talking I was we were explaining franchise law and the um somebody in the audience asked about it and I and I said well franchise law is like being married and I had five five of the six brewers all at the same time all said no you can get out of a marriage almost in unison almost in unison and it was just it was this kismet moment of the entire everybody understood at that point.

SPEAKER_03 45:35

So yeah yeah it's I mean it it is really there's nothing quite like it in any other industry. I mean maybe automobile dealers is similar but like it it's totally different. There's you know there's not a million automobil automobiles that you can choose from on a store shelf.

Closing Thanks And Ways To Support

SPEAKER_00 46:00

You know there's not automobile dealers in every neighborhood um so yeah it's different it's it's uh it's intense man and it it uh it really is challenging to to figure out the solution to that um but I think we're moving in the right direction and I think um we've got we've got brewers who passionately want to see that change which is great to see awesome awesome well sam thank you very much again for your time it's been uh it's been a pleasure chatting with you and very insightful and I look forward to the best of luck in the future hey thanks so much mark I appreciate the time that was my conversation with Sam DeWitt of the Brewers Association my thanks to Sam for carving out the time to speak with me on the in on his legislative priorities this year across all 50 states. Thank you again to Coppertail Brewing for their sponsorship. Coppertail Brewing has been making Florida inspired and Tampa brewed beer since 2014. Enjoy a free dive IPA unholy triple cloud dweller hazy IPA or night swim porter in their tasting room across from Tampa's IKEA just outside Ivor City. Thank you also to Barrel Aged Media and Events Barrel Aged Media and Events hosts beer tours, curated tastings and other beer events throughout Tampa Bay. Corporate retreats, in home tastings with friends or a special bearthday party, visit barrelaged media dot com for more information. Are there any guests you'd like to hear on the show? Reach out. I'm on social media at FLBs or Mark at Floridabeernews.com and let me know what's going on in your world beerwise. Please remember to like subscribe and follow Beerwise on your favorite podcast platform so you don't miss an episode and please review the show on your favorite podcast platform to help us reach new audiences. Florida Beer News and the podcast are on Patreon. Fundraising efforts are underway for the website and podcast to continue making updates and changes. Check out Patreon.com slash Florida Beer News spelled out for more information on how you and your business can help fuel our growth and get some cool rewards. That's all for now until next time when I'll be back to talk about what's going on in the world beer wise. Cheers