Leading in Uncertain Times | What Great Leaders Do When Nothing Goes as Planned

What do great leaders actually do when nothing goes as planned? 

In this powerful episode of Diversity Conversations, hosts Tommie Lewis and Eric Ellis dive into the real, unfiltered side of leadership—where plans fall apart, expectations shift, and growth becomes unavoidable. 

Through honest stories and real-life moments, they explore how leaders can navigate uncertainty with clarity, resilience, and presence—without losing themselves or their teams in the process. 

💡 In this episode, you’ll learn: 

•  How to lead when things don’t go according to plan
•  Why perfectionism can hold leaders back
•  The role of honest conversations in driving real change
•  How to recover from mistakes and lead with integrity
•  Why releasing control creates better outcomes
•  How to restore joy in high-pressure environments
•  The importance of connection over isolation in leadership and life

This isn’t just a leadership conversation—it’s a real look at what it takes to grow, adapt, and lead when certainty disappears.
 
If you're navigating change, leading a team, or building something meaningful in uncertain times… this episode is for you.

And if your organization is navigating change, leadership challenges, or cultural transformation, Tommie and Eric bring decades of experience in leadership development, coaching, and organizational strategy. 

👉 Connect with Tommie Lewis: Make It Plain Consulting
👉 Connect with Eric Ellis: Integrity Development

leadership, leadership development, authentic leadership, conscious leadership, leadership in uncertain times, uncertainty, navigating uncertainty, emotional intelligence, personal growth, mindset, growth mindset, decision making, business leadership, entrepreneurship, diversity conversations 
 

 📅 New conversations every Saturday 9:30 AM EST
📩 Subscribe, share, and join us in moving diversity forward—one conversation at a time.

🌐 Watch more episodes on YouTube 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Welcome to Diversity Conversations, where we engage in thought-provoking dialogue to identify leadership solutions to today's most challenging conflicts. Stream live each week, Saturday, 9 30 a.m. to 11 a.m., hosted by Diversity, Equity and Inclusion Strategists and CEOs Eric Ellis and Tommy Lewis. Join us and add your voice to this engaging diversity conversation.

SPEAKER_02 0:30

Good morning, greater Cincinnati, Northern Kentucky, the United States, and the world. My name is Eric Ellis, and I'm the president and CEO of Integrity Development Corporation, and I'm joined this morning by my good friend and brother.

SPEAKER_01 0:42

Tommy Lewis, president and CEO of Make It Plain Consulting. Good morning, Eric.

SPEAKER_02 0:47

Good morning, team. What's up, baby?

SPEAKER_01 0:49

Ain't nothing much. It's a beautiful day. Yes, sir. In some places, it's a beautiful beautiful afternoon or beautiful evening because we are global. We are global. So thank you all for joining us from around the world every weekend on Diversity Conversations. It's a beautiful, beautiful day.

SPEAKER_02 1:05

5309 downloads last week. We've got almost a mega church here in terms of our community. And we want to thank you all for tuning in, for downloading the show, for uh making this a worthwhile experience for all of us. Tommy, how was your week, man?

SPEAKER_01 1:25

Yeah, I had a very busy and active week as uh our producer and I and you were speaking before we started the show. Um, but it was an active, productive week. I did have some writer block, writer's block this week, uh Eric, that I, you know, I struggled mightily to get through. Uh, and part of that writer's block was my own expectation of quote unquote perfection. Right. There's certain things that I like certain ways that I have studied that other people like it. For example, we're doing proposals and I study when we when we lose. And I study the proposals of those who win.

SPEAKER_02 2:09

Right. You do a good job of that.

SPEAKER_01 2:10

And so when I'm putting together proposals now, it's coming out of some information that I have. And uh when it's not quite there, I I tweak it and I tweak it and I tweak it, and next thing you know, a week has passed. What I am simultaneously enjoying out of the frustration of trying to get it perfect, then when you give it to the people, you don't know what they're thinking. Right. Right. The other side is I'm really appreciating the journey of learning, of doing. Uh, and it is what it is. Right. You know, so I always give it my best effort. Um, when folks may not see me, I am working right in my head. It wakes me up early in the morning, you know, at four o'clock in the morning. These things I'm always working to be the best person and the best organization that can do the best job for the people that we serve, the processes that we're trying to improve, and the cultures that we're trying to sustain. And so that's how my week was this week around kind of joy. I wouldn't say pain, but joy and frustration. But joy won at the end of the week.

SPEAKER_02 3:36

I love that, Tommy. Uh, I was just saying before the store, uh before the podcast started that uh these conversations that we're having are not just conversations for you, community. They are really lessons for living. And we are in a world right now that's under so much pressure. You've heard me say that Gallup's uh recent research uh data suggests that for the first time in this country's history, Tommy, 49% of employees are struggling and only 46% are thriving. So that's how people are coming to the workplace now, upside down, more struggling than thriving. So if that's the condition that people are coming to the workplace with because of family pressures, because of economic or political pressures, uh, then uh then in the workplace we have to look at what are we doing? What are leaders signaling? Uh but for me, Tommy, I have to realize that I'm not just a reporter of that information and data, but I'm also one being impacted by the same pressures. And so what I have decided is that I'm going to experience joy right now. And it's been a blast, man, to just really begin to look at how do I experience joy right now? Uh uh when nobody's in the office, Tommy, sometimes I'm just glad to be here by myself.

SPEAKER_03 5:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:04

And this this week I uh literally I did some uh house cleaning in my office. I said, Hey, I'm about to straighten this all up. I was in there vacuuming and everything. Yes, sir. Everything that I got picked up, I felt great about. Everything that was out of place that I moved, I felt better about. And so I'm grateful for that. The other thing that I did, Tommy is because I have a couple of proposals out as well, is you've had the experience, or maybe maybe you haven't, but uh the experience of you had an excited conversation with a prospect, you sent them a pre-assessment, which they loved, uh, and then you finally sent them the proposal, crickets. Where, hey, hey, hey, we we was really right there. And oftentimes, if you're not careful, you'll just let that ride. But for me, I said, chase right now, follow up right now with a positive outlook, uh, you know, and even name it. Hey, I know that you know, we're all probably just wildly busy. I wanted to reach out and check in with you and see, you know, hey, we're excited here. You showed a lot of energy after the assessment. Um, and I'm wondering, was there anything that you were concerned about as it related to timing or pricing? Because if there are questions in either of those areas, I'm certain that we can make some adjustments that'll make this work for you. And so being able to do that, Tommy, I because you're in a instead of in a depressed or a diminished state, you're in a state of joy where you say, I already know you want coaching, I already know that you liked the pre-assessment tool. Yeah, now you've slowed down, possibly because of your reaction. So instead of just getting sad about that, say, hey, we can make this work however you want to. And so I was grateful to be able to do those kind of things because of not a feeling of defeat, but a feeling of joy.

SPEAKER_01 6:58

Yeah, yeah. How how do you um how do you inspire joy in others who may either have a challenge or a problem or a need, or that whatever they're experiencing, be in an individual or an organization, seems to be overwhelming to them. How do you inspire joy, even in this process of potential client, um, uh, to them that they can say they can raise their head a little bit above water to say, okay, let's let's breathe a little bit and let's take a look at integrity development in Eric Ellis.

SPEAKER_02 7:40

Well, I think the first thing you have to do, you have to be honest, uh, but I think you have to be optimistic. And so I was giving feedback to somebody this week in a 360, and the information that I was sharing, this is a different person than what the one I talked about earlier. Uh, but the person was a bit disappointed because the role that they have is one that they are supposed to be really good at this. And yet the feedback that they're getting, uh receiving is saying that maybe you aren't. And so what I do, Tommy, is I really started thinking about what are the things that I love about this person? I know this person. And uh I can see that they're deeply moved by what they're receiving in terms of feedback. I'm saying just the fact that you are responding the way you respond suggests a lot about who you are and your character. I am 100% confident that you are you have the potential to be a great leader. And I think that this feedback is going to uh help you in the journey along that way. And then we start talking about some things that they can do. But what I have found, Tommy, is that as you begin to look at people and identify the best things about them to sort of encourage them that you can take this, whatever you're going through, and you can pass through it with optimism. And that even these uh these points, they don't define 100% of who you are. And not every one of them is going to be accurate. So some of the feedback you get back, I say I tell people, I say, I like to think about even when I get negative feedback, and I may not think it's fair, there's probably at least a kernel of truth in it. And uh, so I want to look at this body of, but if I'm seeing that I see myself this way and everybody else sees me this way, that's gonna be a problem. That means that's something that I've got to be open to. What changes do I need to make? But uh for me, I think that we owe it to people to be optimistic and to find things that we can say about them that are also encouraging.

SPEAKER_01 9:44

Yeah, it's interesting how the mind works because as you were speaking, Eric, my mind went to three or four different places of opportunity for myself. Um, before I share my little snippet and we're gonna talk through a topic today, I want to invite our community, as always, to like and subscribe. We appreciate you joining us every Saturday on Diversity Conversations. So thank you for liking and subscribing.

SPEAKER_02 10:12

Let's bring up Dan's comment too, because I just think that when people are when you all are weighing in, I want to make sure that we tap into the beauty. All change is a conversation. Tommy, I like that. Uh, what do you think about that?

SPEAKER_01 10:24

I I would agree. So, meaning a conversation is two ways, and it's multiple ways, actually. There's multiple ways. And a conversation versus a monologue, a monologue is when you have one speaker and they're presenting the information or the message, if you will, to the audience, be it one person or a group of people. And so the audience has or is typically not given the opportunity to react, right? Or share feedback or actually be involved with the message, maybe tweet the message. Uh in a conversation, uh, there are points of agreement, right? And there's uh acknowledgments, just like with you, just said, mm-hmm, right? That's an acknowledgement. And then there's also points of disagreement, which could be in the same tone. Mm-hmm. Right? Yeah. Was that did you agree with me or not? What do you think, Tommy? That's interesting.

SPEAKER_03 11:33

Right.

SPEAKER_01 11:34

I I mean, are is it interesting to you, or is it so with a conversation, that's where the change is happening on both sides. Dan, as I'm talking through this out loud, thinking out loud, I think that is phenomenal. All change is conversation because the change is not just from the speaker, the change is in the receiver of the message, and then back and forth, back and forth. I believe that what we have to do as human beings and as citizens of our communities and the world, as a human being, I have to have conversations with myself. And sometimes those conversations are exactly what I think. And sometimes the conversations that I have with myself is input from other people. Excellent. Right. And so now if I'm having that conversation with myself, I can either agree, like uh what Eric says still not right. That's in my head, right? Which shows up in my behavior, maybe showing up in my speech. But if I have that conversation in my head, why would Eric say that? Well, what did he see that I didn't see? What's my blind spot? Let me next time we're gonna golf and I'm gonna run it by him. Hey, Eve, man, you had said this about me last week. What do you mean by that? Well, you know, here's what I saw. Oh, thank you, man.

SPEAKER_03 13:00

Right.

SPEAKER_01 13:00

Because I couldn't see. That's why the change, which is constant, should be a conversation. Phenomenal.

SPEAKER_02 13:07

And I want to build on that too. Thank you, uh, Dan. That's why we want to stop and hear what you all are saying. Uh so Tommy, when you ask me, what do I say? I talked about that. But actually, the first thing I do is say, I see some emotion here. Help me to understand what you're feeling right now. What are you hearing from the feedback? So I start there. Exactly. And uh, and then people start saying, Well, what I'm hearing is I'm disappointed. I do recognize that I've done some of these things. And I'm disappointed at the impact that it's having on others. I don't want to be that kind of leader. And then I can start encouraging and asking, okay, what are some things that you might be able to do in order for us not to be receiving this kind of feedback? And then, you know, so I love that all changes a conversation because as consultants, people expect us just like they expect leaders, to have the answers and to uh be saying things when sometimes it's about listening first to understand exactly what people are feeling, uh what they're saying, paraphrasing it to make sure that there's clarity there, uh, and then uh seeing what people are interested in doing as a result of what they've heard.

SPEAKER_01 14:29

Yeah, Eric, I think this is great because as I was going to say earlier, that uh as I was reflecting on the things that you were saying, I was thinking about my week, and there were certain people on our team that were not, in my opinion, uh maximizing their potential. And and sometimes in their our day-to-day interaction, which is very limited, um the the the person would share words with me that I think they thought I would like to hear. And and and so the frustration that ultimately raised up in my energy was I I don't really care about uh you trying to package your message to me. Right? In fact, what I'm asking you, and this was the real truth, um, we're gonna go through these five items, and you tell me if they're on target or off target. That's it. We started the first one, and they went through kind of the story of the why. Went through the second one, went through the story of the why. So now I'm frustrated because I'm asking on target, off target. But I think, and I know now, that I could have and I will be more clear I'm asking you of these five tasks to tell me is it on target or off target because of my linear thinking. If you say it's on target, I have no concern. If you say it's off target, I move into problem solving. I'm not judging you and I didn't communicate that.

SPEAKER_03 16:33

Right.

SPEAKER_01 16:34

I'm not trying to shame you or blame you, right? I'm working for you. So if you tell me it's off target, okay, why do you think it was off target? Okay, well, I couldn't really get in touch with this person. Okay. All right. And I'm thinking, okay, maybe I should get in touch with him. Case in point. So I gotta say this, E. So we had the person I'm talking about uh call an executive of a company who's a friend of mine. Okay and uh it's with the Illuminate Leadership Conference that we have, and each year we've gone to my friend's company. Again, she's the CEO. I've known her for 10 years. Have a great time. She's a presence chief executive officer, she's a woman, goes through the business model and the plan, and then we take a tour of the plant and the and everyone gets a takeaway, which is a very literally a sweet takeaway, right? Literally. Please call my friend, right? That was three weeks ago. Did you call her? Um, I was planning to planning to understand that go ahead and call her, right? So I emailed her. She didn't respond. Okay. Please, go ahead and call her. Right? So this happens three or four times over the last three weeks, and then this week, did you did you get in touch with said person? Well, I had attempted to email, right, give me the language.

SPEAKER_03 18:22

Right.

SPEAKER_01 18:22

So I got emotionally hijacked. I was losing my joy, literally. Absolutely. And I said, uh, okay. That was that's what came out of my mouth.

unknown 18:35

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 18:36

But inside.

SPEAKER_01 18:37

Yeah. So the person I'm talking to on the team, uh, I go into my office. Right? Okay, I leave. I just turn around and go into my office. The person I'm talking to, after about five minutes or less, they come around, knock on the door, and and and I I turn around. Yes. They say, um, do you mind reaching out to your friend? Because I'm unable to get in touch with with them. Absolutely. Right? Thank you. And that's that's the way I talk. Absolutely. Eric, I email and call my friend, the CEO. The e the telephone call goes uh goes nowhere. It doesn't even go to a voicemail. Now that's odd. Right. At the same time, I take a look at my email, I get a bounce back. She's not even with the company anymore. Oh man. Right. Right. And I and I say, whoa, when did when did she leave the company? Right, right, right. She left at the beginning of April. Oh my goodness. Right? I mean this, and so I'm saying this because my thought, my behavior of caller, email me, the other person saying I can't get in touch. If I had some bias or some some stanking thinking, I would be like, there's no way that if you call my friend who's been doing this with us for eight years, that she wouldn't return the call. Just call her, drop my name.

SPEAKER_02 20:20

Right.

SPEAKER_01 20:21

The fact of the matter was everybody was correct. I can't get in touch with her. Right? The CEO. CEO's not there, the CEO's not getting the message, email or call. The conversation wasn't even happening. Right. At the same time, E, I had noticed that the person on my team was losing joy for the last three weeks. That's why I'm sitting here like, ah, how do you inspire someone to have joy, even with me, I'm being the tactician, but I am diminishing unintentionally someone else's joy. And I don't want to be that person.

SPEAKER_02 21:12

Right. And that's exactly what the woman said to me that I coached. And also, Tommy, um, knowing you, you're simply, I mean, you you're trying to encourage. But what happens is that our perspective is really our perspective. It's not an agenda. We're not trying to hurt anybody. We're just thinking, I asked you to call. You didn't even make that move. I heard you say email a couple of times, but I said. And so in our minds, if we've gone down a path with certainty, and then we find out oh, there was something else entirely that was taking place. And I love the fact that what you did is you withheld all that was screaming out in your head. You said, okay, the best I can do. Now is walk away because the next things I'm going to say are going to be potentially unkind. So I walked away. Kudos for that, right?

SPEAKER_03 22:09

Right.

SPEAKER_02 22:10

That's the right decision to make based on where we are. And then when you did it yourself and found something else out, and then there was a part of you that says, Oh man, how I wish I would have known that that was a possibility because I would have stopped me from sweating a lot of this other stuff that I sweated and making an employee feel potentially. Now let me ask you this, Tommy. What what were you able to do afterwards, or what do you think you can do as a follow-up around that?

SPEAKER_01 22:40

So two things. One, on the business side, I did what I do. So I just really looked at the company's website, saw their leadership team, saw the new CEO, the new director of culture, the new uh CFO, and I just emailed them based on my friend's the previous CEO's email style. Right. Sometimes it has a period in between the first and last names, etc. So I just did that. I don't know where that went, so I just hit it. So I took care of that in my mental operational mind, check it out. Right. But on the personal relationship side, uh, I'm vocalizing it now because I'm thinking about it.

unknown 23:26

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 23:26

And next week I'm gonna go to that person in two different forms. One privately to share my apologies, um to share my intention not to hurt or harm. So I'm not I'm not one to share my intention like I didn't mean to hurt right. I share my intention of if you were hurt, harmed, etc. Right, tell me I will never do that again. And what do I need to do to correct it? Right. Uh so I'll do that personally and then privately, I'm sorry, privately. And then publicly, there were some other team members who had experienced those conversations. So I am going to apologize publicly as well. Wasn't my intent because at the end of the day, the person that I'm talking to is on the team, they're in a learning space. They're they're they're literally an intern who is trying to figure out how to match their academic career with their professional career such that they can find joy. Not go to college and get a job that they hate for the next 40 years. That's not their intent. And this internship with Make It Plain Consulting is their first experience with an internship. They have another one in the next few months or a month or so, different city, different state. And uh uh I I I'm an En-ROADS alumni, right? I understand the value of relationships more than the work. Because when I was in En-ROADS as an engineering intern, there was a lot of stuff I didn't know. These folks, these engineers were doing it for 40 years. But I can name half, if not almost all, of the people I work with because they treated me, Eric, like I was somebody. It gave me immense joy, right? I'm gonna shout them out. Jim Shore. He was the director of the construction management group. We would have weekly meetings with all 15 or 20 of us, and each person had a project, major project. These were these were uh supervisors of their respective projects, and we had to go around robbing. There were 15 or 20 of us, we only had an hour. So it was the style was hit it, go, good. Jim, at the end of each one, what do you need for me? They would tell him, he'll make make his note, he had a legal pad, right? Make his note, go around the room, and then get to me. I was a gopher. I ran and got coffee.

SPEAKER_03 26:35

Right.

SPEAKER_01 26:35

How's your project coming, Tom? Everybody's quiet.

SPEAKER_03 26:41

Right.

SPEAKER_01 26:43

Oh no, uh Tommy, that's right. I'm sorry. You you you go by Tommy. It's like, well, thank you, Jim. Uh and he was like, James. No, no, Jim. Just call me Jim, right? Right. How's it going? How's it going? Uh are you doing a good job getting the coffee? And I would say, I am, I'm getting the coffee. Another guy that I'm getting coffee for, that I do other work, he would say, he's doing more than getting coffee, Jim. Another guy, yeah, he's doing more. I know. What would you like to work on? I I was given two or three minutes every week to say what I wanted to work on. And because he asked and I said it, he was telling everyone else, give them the opportunity. Right. I was so happy that thank you for listening to me. I deserve to be at the table.

SPEAKER_03 27:40

Right.

SPEAKER_01 27:41

And if I don't get hired by this company, that I know that's the part of En-ROADS, but I will always speak well of you all.

SPEAKER_03 27:48

Right.

SPEAKER_01 27:48

I thought that in my head. Many of those folks are already transitioned. They were in their 60s 40 years ago.

SPEAKER_04 27:55

Right.

SPEAKER_01 27:55

They've already transitioned. But on this day I'm talking about it, I am determined, Eric, uh, to go back next week to make sure that this person knows that they can be themselves. This is just the a learning opportunity, right? I.e. internship, and that uh make it plain is not to make it worse or make it difficult to bring you joy.

SPEAKER_02 28:25

Tommy, thank you for that story. That's what distinguishes you as a leader. Um, I am sitting here in anticipation of the uh full circle of the conversation. Uh, you are thinking about uh the psychological uh value and safety of an intern within your organization. Community, I want to share this with you. And then Tommy, see if there's any other comments that we want to bring up. That certainly there are skills that we can learn that will help us to avoid some of the mistakes that we might make. But I'll say to you that no matter what skills you learn, you're always going to make mistakes. Sorry. So when we make mistakes, the only question is then what do we do when we make the mistake? And I think that, Tommy, that's where a lot of people fall off, is that uh they don't recognize mistakes are gonna happen. Uh, we're gonna do things that are against what we want to do. Uh, and then what we when we discover that we've made a mistake, I think that apologizing, learning from that. I love what Tommy said about not only did I uh want to go to the person privately, but he also uh operates out of a practice that I do as well. If I did something publicly, then I got to go back publicly and apologize. So, Tommy, my hat's off to you for that kind of leadership. And knowing you as I do, you put those things then in your Rolodex so that it's a learning. You know, so okay, hey, I'm gonna put that in a learning. I won't let that happen again that same way. Yeah, I'm not gonna be, I'm not gonna, it's the same way in golf. I'm trying not to make that same mistake the same way. I might, I'm gonna make mistakes. I'm gonna try not to make that one the same way. And so I appreciate that. Uh, if there's another comment, uh otherwise, I love what when Tommy said, I robbed from her moments of her joy. And so that is what we're going to really lean into today, is we probably won't get to all of them, but again, we're going to talk about the seven ways that we can experience joy now. The first one is be fully present. I think that uh, you know, that's what I've been looking at as well, Tommy, is being in conversations and fully present, not on my phone, not doing other things, but being right there with the person in this moment right now. And that is something that I have absolutely done this last week, is uh really I was with a young person that was really just, you know, excited about all the things that we do. Uh and I was really right there in the conversation, being present with them, talking about the importance of experiencing joy. Because so often when we are thinking about tomorrow, we can't do anything about tomorrow. Uh, we can't do anything about yesterday, we can't fully control tomorrow. So we have to really try to find ourselves being present in today. And if we really do that, uh, you know, I called up T Cooley yesterday and was really just present in that conversation with him, with this other person. And man, Tommy, we had so much just belly laughter. And what I realized, and I've said this now recently a few times, is that there's nothing that you could ever buy that would be richer than this moment right now. The laughter that's happening right now, the stories that are happening right now, the brilliance that I'm experiencing from this other person right now, the character that I'm experiencing from this other person right now, the fact that they're my friend, there's somebody on earth that I can trust, that I can say, hey, if you're ever in LA, I'm gonna give you T Terry's, you just met him, but I'm gonna give you his number. No, I don't want to interrupt. No, he don't have no, you can't interrupt him. This is a pure soul on earth that's a friend that will take you in just because you know me and now he knows you. And those things are being fully present right now, Tommy. And I just want to emphasize that to our community. Don't allow anything to distract you from being present right now and experiencing joy right now.

SPEAKER_01 32:57

What is greater than the present? So the past is gone, right? We may not forget it, we may have some uh existing feelings from the past, but the past is actually and physically and philosophically gone. The present we have no idea. The present Eric can be in the next minute, right, or 10 years or 20 years.

SPEAKER_04 33:32

Right.

SPEAKER_01 33:33

We we have have no idea. Now we may have some uh dreams, uh inspirations, aspirations, uh some some uh visions, or we may even envision, right? Some of us put together vision boards of what the future will be. There's no greater time than the present.

SPEAKER_02 33:56

Right. I love that. So last night I'm at home by myself, experiencing joy in the presence. So I decided I was gonna make some stir fry. So, Tommy, I had gotten this tasty uh grilled chicken from Sam's Club, and I got some uh uh, you know, uh vegetable fried rice. Man, I was making all those things, and I was stirring it in with that uh uh what is it, kung pao sauce, and I even threw in some corn and broccoli in there. Man, I was stirring it up and I was just seeing it heating up, man, just beautifully. And Tommy, I was sitting there by myself, enjoying that I could make all the choices about what I was gonna eat, what I was gonna put in this stir fry. And it might not uh work for everybody in the world, but it was making my whole heart smile. And I was literally right there, uh, probably enjoying that moment more than any meal that I've ever paid for at the finest restaurants, because I'm just there being empowered to do exactly what I want to do. And my uh tongue was salivating, thinking about this meal that that as soon as I get my fried rice out of the microwave and throw it on the plate and throw this hot chicken and and and broccoli and cauliflower and corn on top of it, Tommy. As soon as I take the first bite, it was just hot, fresh, uh in my mouth. And I was just for a moment in heaven.

SPEAKER_01 35:39

Indeed.

SPEAKER_02 35:40

And it's those little things, uh, community, that too often we pass by. We shovel food into our mouth, uh, we throw away the plate, we run up and do the next thing that we have to do. And we're saying to you that you can experience joy right now, moment by moment, thanking God for the little things that He's blessed you with. Indeed, Eric. Good point. The second point is healing happens when we stop living everywhere else except now. I want to start, I want to start with that one, Tommy. And for me, uh, this week, I was listening to our president and for a moment and our secretary of war, and I was uh discouraged for just a moment, and then I thought, experience joy right now. And so what I did this week, Tommy, is I put together a post, uh, the five sort of the uh five uh part plan for a peace ambassador, a strategy to end war. And so what I did was I thought about five points that I'd like to offer up to the world that says I don't have to sit here and be discouraged by what I'm hearing. I can jump into the conversation and welcome other people into the conversation from a positive point of view. And so I identify five strategies that I would like to offer up. And then I invited uh my community, 5,000 followers, to weigh in and add your strategy, your point of view. And the first one was I would get all the living presidents together and I would invite them to come to the table with President Trump and all of their best thinkers about how do we resolve conflicts with Iran. Uh, and then the second one I said is take advantage of our current allies, adversaries, really welcome them into the conversation. And I said that President Trump has some strong relationships with some of the uh Arab nations in that region. He's got a good relationship with uh uh Russia and maybe even okay relationship with China. So I was even weighing in. You see, where I started was I was disappointed by what I was hearing. But what I said were five things, including something very positive about the president. And so what I realized is that I didn't have to sit back in a moment of disappointment. I could lean into something more positive and then invite other people. And then somebody reached out to me and said, Eric, that's just we're like we're done. There's nothing we can do. Uh, we've got what we've got. Uh so why are you even doing this? Like, why are you even saying these things when we are where we are? I said, because uh we've got to begin to rebuild the scaffolding for peace and unity. And I said, what I'm literally trying to do is reach out to peace ambassadors and say, join me, add your voice to a positive slate of strategies and things that we could do. Who knows? There's six degrees of separation between all of us, Tommy. I don't, and I never know when somebody in my community has a relationship that connects them right into the White House. And so what I need to do is instead of experiencing discouragement, uh, depression, sadness, uh sort of defeated uhness, I can I can choose to experience joy and allow that joy to guide my words and my suggestions and then invite other people to do the same. And it's still a slow response because I think so many people are afraid to jump into this, and they're they're used to people setting it up as a partisan thing. And I refuse to do that. I say if I'm going to win people from all sides, then I've got to speak in as objective uh way to say, look, I'm welcoming everybody to this conversation.

SPEAKER_01 40:04

So for people that had responded in general, did they have strategies or recommendations?

SPEAKER_02 40:12

Slow on it. But I'm one who doesn't mind. Uh Tommy, when you are seeking to be a trailblazer, then you can't be discouraged that uh the people aren't rushing to a solution. They're kind of used to kind of sit waiting back and watching to see. Uh, but what I did he, you know what I got? I got a lot of messages out of the public eye. And I was, I was like, wow, so people are saying, I'm not sure if I'm gonna weigh in publicly. Eric, thank you. You know, uh Vince Brown did weigh in. He said, Man, I wish more people were listening to this. This is masterful. And so, but I'm not discouraged, Tommy, because I'm experiencing joy because I'm empowered to speak, to use my voice to speak of and speak from my own character. And my character is I love you all. Uh, Mr. President, uh, I think part of what you're trying to do is helpful. And I want to weigh in with something that could be helpful as well. Uh, I like how the Pope has been speaking. One of the things that I said is that we've got to engage our uh faith community, including the Pope, you know, but but our faith community from the left to the right. We've got to, and we all have to come together, pray together. And I was saying that kind of thing. And the other thing I said was those of us that are peace ambassadors have got to come together with each other to break down stereotypes, to learn about each other around the world, and to decide that we're gonna work together at the citizen level, Tommy. So I'm not looking just for Washington to answer all this. I'm speaking to the ordinary people around the world and say, hey, y'all, let's not get caught up in this thing. Let's talk to each other, let's know each other, let's work together, let's figure out how to say uh Iranians that I care about you. I know some of you, you know us. Let's don't get hijacked by what's happening right now. And in that, Tommy, it is giving me joy. And I'm not doing things that I think can work immediately. I'm doing things that I think in the eternal sense can work over time.

SPEAKER_01 42:32

Yeah, that's good. That's good. What else do we have here?

SPEAKER_02 42:36

So our third point is release the need to control everything. Tommy, you want to start with that one?

SPEAKER_01 42:42

Yeah, I think as an achiever, uh, someone who has put together plans and strategies and executed the plans and strategies to actually yield the outcome that I had planned. In many cases, that's happened. Uh, even if uh the plan was going down path A, ran into a barrier, and then had to pivot to uh plan B or path B, I considered uh the path B as now plan uh path A, which is a pivot. As someone who has achieved that or does that, that creates a sense of control. Sometimes false sense of control. Because, as I mentioned before, um we don't know what the future has. Right. And so if we try to control a lot, we're actually what's actually happening is that we're controlling what we can control in the moment. So that that's what control is. So we don't try to control what happened in the past, if it happens in the happened in the Past and we don't like it, and we have some sense of power, then we try to rewrite the past. We reframe it, we put a new and different narrative on it such that the future ends up somewhat what we planned it for ourselves control. What I've learned is to release that. And in the process I'm going through at work, we are uh uh moving locations, uh spiking up our our rent by almost 300%. Uh had to make this decision. I was looking about it two years ago to move into our own private uh property, uh have some items to still address there, you know, just didn't have a million dollars cash and all that good stuff. And I I just released it. I struggled to release it, right? Because what was happening was not part of the plan. I take X amount of years, get ducks in a row. Now it's time to move into our new building of our own, and it's not happening. Oh, it's over. I can't do it, it's not gonna happen. Had some people come around and say, Oh, hold on, hold on, release that right and give it to them.

SPEAKER_02 45:29

Right.

SPEAKER_01 45:30

Yeah, all right. Right, yeah, God is good. I threw out that right language.

SPEAKER_02 45:37

Right, right. Still hadn't stepped into it, but still it out.

SPEAKER_01 45:41

But God had heard me.

SPEAKER_02 45:42

Right.

SPEAKER_01 45:44

He said, No, no, I know you, son. You're just angry because you're not gonna mock me ever. But you're trying to make fun. I know you believe I'm good, but let me show you how good I am. And if you're gonna say you're gonna give it up and release that control, give it up. So I released it to him. The same month, the property that we're in that we've been in for 15 years, got a new hedge fund, uh, uh bought it from New York City. It's been a mess. 15 years of success with the previous landlord who's retired and moved on. Now, where our business is is a mess. Everything is messed up. Remember, we're moving into a new property that's 300% more rent. God has lined it up. Oh, we're gonna get you out of there. Right because he says to me, Oh, you want to have money, let's see what you do with a few coins. If you misuse it or abuse it, you're not ready. If you want to have community and be a human citizen, right? Let's see how you deal with people that you know or don't know. Let me double down. See how you do with people that you don't know, see how you treat them, not by way of your behavior, not by way of your speech, but by way of your thinking. So when you run across the person that you may have some judgment about, right, and say, I don't know why they're homeless, whatever, because you're judging them what you thought you can control you did control to get you to where you are, you did not control it.

SPEAKER_03 47:31

Right.

SPEAKER_01 47:31

God says, I made that happen. I put other businesses in your path. I put people in the businesses that will listen to your talking. Eric, I'm I'm I'm so overjoyed that, like, yeah, the business didn't buy us, the person did. Oh, I I can't judge that person who who's down on their luck, if you will. Right? Because there's things that may have happened to their lives that was out of their control, just like things that have happened to my life that have been completely out of my control. So, what I do is have these conversations with myself and others and release the need, the temptation, the desire to control.

SPEAKER_02 48:22

Excellent. Excellent. I love that, Tommy. I so do a couple quick stories. So I coached somebody this week that got the feedback that they micromanage. And we started talking about that. And I said, I know something about that, uh, Tommy, and I know that you probably do as well. When you run a business, you you and and you're doing that successfully, you're used to approaching everything with excellence. And so a lot of times you're you're afraid to give over important things that are going to be seen by others to others because you're not sure if they're gonna operate at the same standard that you do. And so you get a little nervous. So you want to control that. What I've discovered, Tommy, is that oftentimes for my own self, that oftentimes I didn't spend enough time preparing them around what the standard needed to be. Uh, I didn't spend enough time in discussion with them about how to approach uh certain projects and then working together because when you prep people well enough and then give people the freedom to also bring their own thinking to a project, you go beyond. So then release control, not only have you taught them the standard, but you've given them the freedom to go to another level based upon their own expertise. And so I have found that that has been helpful. I'll give you another example at a practical home level. So, as you know, Tommy, I'm preparing, we're preparing to sell our home. And so uh we had the office where window treatments had been taken down, and there were spots there that needed to be painted over. So I was asking Judy about the color paints that she had, and she couldn't remember, so she gave me a couple. One was too dark, one was too light. And so we had an open house last Sunday, Tommy. And here I am on Saturday night trying to paint those uh spots. And have you ever done something, Tommy, where it was a little something, but by the time you got through messing it up now, it's a big old problem. I had a big old ugly uh white splotch, uh just uh amoeba uh up on the wall. And I went to bed on Saturday night thinking, oh my goodness. When people come tomorrow, they're not gonna see little spots where the window, they're gonna see a big old ugly thing. And so literally I had to let go of the control. I couldn't, there's nothing I could do about that. So I went to bed. And then I got up the next morning and I felt like God had said to me, Eric, why don't you take that dark paint and uh mix it with uh the lighter gray from your room? So here I am like a kid on Rumper Room, Sesame Street, if you will. I'm literally, Tommy, pouring the dark paint into a Dixie cup, poured in the paint from my room, which was the light paint from a Dixie cup. I got a plastic spoon and I'm in there mixing them together. When I looked in it, it looked like you know, uh twisty ice cream, yeah, where you would have uh, you know, chocolate and vanilla. And so I poured it into the pan and then rolled it out and rolled it up on the wall. And Tommy, don't you know that that was a perfect match? And God was saying to me, son, I can do anything and everything, I care about the little things, and Tommy, I took that twisty white and gray paint and put it on a roller and rolled out the wall, Tommy. And I literally had to put tape in halfway so I didn't have to paint all the walls. And Tommy, when I got done, you could not distinguish what I just did from the color of the rest of the wall. And it was such a shocking miracle, Tommy, that I walked out and I walked back in five times and I said, How does I mean that putting water in the wine, man? Yeah, how do you take just a random dark paint, light paint, put them together, and it matches perfectly the rest of and so that's why you got to release controlling things and understand either it is or it isn't, and either way, you live on.

SPEAKER_01 52:44

Yeah, that's for those who have faith. And I'm not speaking about spiritual faith, uh, I'm speaking of literally the faith that the universe will do what it does, yeah. Right, and then there are miracles, and that's spiritual right beliefs there, uh uh but releasing what uh releasing the need.

SPEAKER_02 53:16

Right, there it is, Tommy.

SPEAKER_01 53:18

Control. Right, right, the need. So once we begin to release the need to control, uh we we don't control as much, and or we start to focus on what we can control, and we can control ourselves, we can control our thinking, our own values, we can control at least at least we can acknowledge or try to acknowledge our own emotions, right? And so if someone says, you know, did I make you mad? We may verbally say, No, you didn't make me mad, but in my energy, I'm mad. And I can control that. So if I say you didn't make me mad, but I know I'm mad, then I'm mad. If I then control that, just oh, this is a learning opportunity. And learning makes me happy. I feel joy, right? So no, no, I'm not I'm not mad, but I'm curious. Say that again, right? I'm in a different mindset, I've released the need to control to now I have more. I'm winning. Right when we want to control everything, and we see what's happening in the world with certain people or countries wanting to control, then we are realizing that we're we become more and more isolated and alone, right? And less part of the human and world universe. Right.

SPEAKER_02 55:01

So last week, Tommy Lewis and I played with the West Club. We play with a golf club for the last few years. And so we were playing golf last week. And uh so this next one says, choose connection over isolation. There are, believe it or not, you can literally be in a crowd and still be isolated. And so golf is one of the things that can send you down that pathway. You're literally in a foursome, but you're so focused on your own swing and your own score that you can be isolated in the midst of others. What I decided to do last week, I was uh a part on the first hole, uh, but after that, I was all over the place. Nothing horribly wrong, but just the game of golf is a game of up and downs. But what I decided is that I was going to choose uh to make sure that I was connecting with the people in my foursome more than being isolated, being so highly focused on my swing. And as a result, and I did that early, Tommy, I just decided that it doesn't really matter. This is kind of a practice round right now, but I'm enjoying these brothers that I'm enjoying Tommy's swing. He hit a couple big bombs, you know, and his short game was working and putting was good. And I was just enjoying the connection. And that's what we want to say to you, community, that you can experience connection right now. Don't allow yourself to just be sitting at home or in your cubicle or in your office in isolation when you can find connection with others.

SPEAKER_01 56:42

I do want to double down on this topic, Eric, of uh connection over isolation. And we may be able to get to one more here. Right. But uh again, shouting out to our community regardless of your age and your season, you're not alone.

SPEAKER_02 57:01

That's good.

SPEAKER_01 57:02

Please know this. Um adults and young people are alike are struggling mightily with mental health. There may be bouts of uh loneliness, isolation, uh, there may be some bouts with even depression, and in some cases, bouts with uh uh believing that there is no hope or future. Uh we want to submit to you all that uh you are not alone, reach out to whomever you need to reach out to to make a connection. And I will also say that uh if you do reach out and that one person is not available, reach out to somebody else. Flat out. We don't have to be connected to one other person on earth, right? It can be a stranger. Try them, try them, right? How you doing? Doing good, or just trying to make it through. Oh, you too? Oh, me too. What's going on with you? Just uh, you know, home life, just trying to get some things together, me too. You never know when we're talking with folks that they too are going through the same similar situation, but they didn't not let you know, right? We learned this last week with folks in relationships, things like this. Like, really? After X amount of years, yep. I would have never known, yeah, we didn't make that connection. We were out here isolated in our game of golf, right? And then we broke away and had a kind of a fellowship conversation, and then we went into fellowship, and golf was not as important, right? Because it was we had to force them, but two or three of folks have been going through the same situation, four have gone through it, right? So I wanted to double down on that to choose connection over isolation, right?

SPEAKER_02 59:18

And I I'll say um remember that this moment that you're experiencing right now is a gift. So I know that being here this morning with my good friend Tommy Lewis is a gift, that I get the chance to hear his wisdom, be encouraged by his perspective, uh, be uh excited about the character that I know being manifested over and over and over again in real life situations. And so that's the place that we want to land is that uh we want you to remember that the moment that you're living in right now is a gift. Don't squander that gift. Don't allow anybody to make you feel as though this moment is anything other than a gift. I said last week that all of us have Goliaths in our lives. And too often people spend too much time staring in the eyes of each Goliath. I'm saying sometimes you just got to take your eye off of Goliath and put your eye on the presence and all the things that you can be grateful for right now. Tommy, close us out.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:32

I want to thank our community, Eric, for gifting us one of the most valuable things that we have on earth, and that is time, the present. So our community that showed up, Dan Joyner and many, many, many others who have shown up to gift us your time. You could be anywhere else. Absolutely. You may be multitasking right now, doing two or three or four of the things, and then listening in on diversity conversations. And in Dan's case, jabbing in, sharing some insights. Right. So yeah, just brilliant nuggets. Remarkable. Yeah. We want to thank you for gifting us your time. It is our honor and our pleasure to have these moments, Eric and I, to share time with you. So as we close out, the gift of time, the gift of presence, the gift of joy. Continue to gift others joy. We'll see you next week on another episode of Diversity Conversations. Take care.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:49

Bye now.