You could be a writer with ten years of writing experience and still be considered ‘emerging’ after your first book comes out. You can be a painter with years of experience, exhibitions, recognitions, and clients and be considered ‘mid-career.’ Or you can just not care about any of that. What is the point of those labels anyway? Who finds them useful and why? How do you use them to your benefit? We will have two guests explore career labels, what their experiences are with them, and when they’ve been useful (or not).
Julia Barbosa Landois is an award-winning multidisciplinary artist whose sculpture, video, and performance works have been exhibited in galleries, festivals, and museums throughout the USA and abroad. She holds a BFA from the University of Texas at San Antonio and MFA from the University of Pennsylvania. Exhibition venues have included the Contemporary Arts Museum Houston, Museum of Contemporary Art Santa Barbara, McNay Museum (San Antonio), Mexic-Arte Museum (Austin), Artpace (San Antonio), and many more. She was a 2018-2019 Artist-in-Residence at the Lawndale Art Center and won a 2019 grant from the National Association of Latino Arts and Cultures to create MantecaHTX, the nation’s first online directory of Latinx artists. In addition to her career as a professional artist, Barbosa Landois has worked as an exhibitions coordinator, preparator, arts educator, and grant writer.
Yeiry Guevara is a creative with extensive nonprofit and arts management experience. Currently, Yeiry is the Interim Director of Grants for Houston Arts Alliance. HAA is the City of Houston’s designated local arts and culture agency which provides city-funded grants to local arts organizations and individual artists. Prior to this role, Yeiry was Manager of Consultants and Programs at National Executive Service Corps in New York, NY. NESC is a nonprofit dedicated to empowering other nonprofits through management consulting. A lady of many talents, Yeiry is a writer, translator and multimedia artist. She is an engaging public speaker as well as the author of bilingual zines. Her work can be found in bookstores and libraries across the country.
Music: "Ike is Gone" by Nick Gaitan
You could be a writer with ten years of writing experience and still be considered ‘emerging’ after your first book comes out. You can be a painter with years of experience, exhibitions, recognitions, and clients and be considered ‘mid-career.’ Or you can just not care about any of that. What is the point of those labels anyway? Who finds them useful and why? How do you use them to your benefit? We will have two guests explore career labels, what their experiences are with them, and when they’ve been useful (or not).
Julia Barbosa Landois is an award-winning multidisciplinary artist whose sculpture, video, and performance works have been exhibited in galleries, festivals, and museums throughout the USA and abroad. She holds a BFA from the University of Texas at San Antonio and MFA from the University of Pennsylvania. Exhibition venues have included the Contemporary Arts Museum Houston, Museum of Contemporary Art Santa Barbara, McNay Museum (San Antonio), Mexic-Arte Museum (Austin), Artpace (San Antonio), and many more. She was a 2018-2019 Artist-in-Residence at the Lawndale Art Center and won a 2019 grant from the National Association of Latino Arts and Cultures to create MantecaHTX, the nation’s first online directory of Latinx artists. In addition to her career as a professional artist, Barbosa Landois has worked as an exhibitions coordinator, preparator, arts educator, and grant writer.
Yeiry Guevara is a creative with extensive nonprofit and arts management experience. Currently, Yeiry is the Interim Director of Grants for Houston Arts Alliance. HAA is the City of Houston’s designated local arts and culture agency which provides city-funded grants to local arts organizations and individual artists. Prior to this role, Yeiry was Manager of Consultants and Programs at National Executive Service Corps in New York, NY. NESC is a nonprofit dedicated to empowering other nonprofits through management consulting. A lady of many talents, Yeiry is a writer, translator and multimedia artist. She is an engaging public speaker as well as the author of bilingual zines. Her work can be found in bookstores and libraries across the country.
Music: "Ike is Gone" by Nick Gaitan
Transcripción en español disponible aquí: https://fresharts.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/s2-ep-4-spanish.pdf
Reyes:
Hello and welcome to "Should I or Shouldn't I." A Fresh Arts podcast hosted by me, Reyes Ramirez, where we explore the decisions Artists make everyday to succeed in their creative practice. All right, hello everyone. I hope you're well as you're listening to this. This episode's question is, "Should I or shouldn't I identify as emerging, mid-career, established, et cetera, et cetera.?" So this is a funny question because it's one of those weird ones that I think is so specific to an Arts context. But it's one that I think, hopefully, like in one week, answer and explore this question. I think it could apply to a lot of people and particularly how each field really has their own versions of this I feel, in my experience. And so if you're not an Artist or maybe you're just getting in. I mean, this is something, kind of, I think that this applies to many different fields and professions. In terms of how professionals identify themselves and how they quantify these things that are really just life experiences. And it's a really funky thing to do but, I couldn't have asked for two better guests. We have Julia Barbosa Landois who is an amazing Artist, Grant Writer, Teacher, all that good stuff. And I think Julia, you'll provide a lot of awesome context for that. And we have the Interim Director of Grants, relatively new, as we're recording this. And Yeiry is a person of many, many, many talents. So she's gonna provide awesome context for us. Hello you two.
Yeiry:
Hi, good morning.
Julia:
Hi Reyes.
Reyes:
Hey.
Julia:
Hi.
Reyes:
All right, so Julia if you wanna, just want to introduce yourself real quick.
Julia:
Sure. My name is Julia Barbosa Landois and I am a Visual Artist, a Performance Artist, and also I work as an Arts Nonprofit Grant Writer for Fresh Arts.
Reyes:
Yeiry.
Yeiry:
Hi, I'm Yeiry Guevara. I am currently in the role of Interim Director of Grants at Houston Arts Alliance. And outside of that, I am a Writer, a Translator, and a Multimedia Artist. Thank you so much for having us.
Reyes:
Of course. Before we kind of get into like the technical, you know. I shouldn't say technical, you know, I mean even technically like you're valid in some ways like emerging, mid-career, established, blah, blah, blah. But I think just personally, just to kind of get us talking is, "How do you personally identify or approximate your experience and/or progress in your practice?" You know, I have my answer for that but I definitely wanna hear y'all's first. So Yeiry, if you wanna answer that, first?
Yeiry:
Oh man, I'm struggling with this. Mostly because like, I feel that the thing about labels, right? Like what's the purpose of labels? Do I see myself in this label? Do I have to choose a dropdown menu out of this? I'm not entirely clear. So I feel like, maybe like in my creative practice. I feel if I had to pick one, right, it would feel like emerging cause I feel cause I feel like there's so much. I didn't go to art School. So there's so much I'm still learning and trying to figure out, and like build skills. So in that sense. But with like my nonprofit and my professional career, I feel like I'm mid-career if I had to pick one. I only say that because I went to like this networking event for like emerging professionals and I was like, oh wow I feel totally out of place. Like, I had these questions a long time ago. So I guess if I had to categorize myself in those, I would be torn.
Reyes:
Yeah, and Julia?
Julia:
It's interesting to hear you say that because I had the same experience when trying to categorize my career as an Artist, which is. There was an opportunity that I had wanted to apply for a long time ago and I did. And then I was waiting like, oh, I wanna have this project and I'm really excited about to apply for again. And I went to apply for it again and realized like, oh no, I'm not considered an emerging Artist anymore. I can't do this opportunity anymore and I was kind of surprised. I looked over their criteria and I kind of thought about where I was. And I thought like, well I'm disappointed about this one thing, but I guess, I guess I should be excited about these accomplishments or that like, I've reached this new point. And yeah, so I guess I'm. I guess I'm mid-career now.
Reyes:
Yeah. I think it's a funky thing, I guess because. In the field of like, I guess, and I'll speak for myself, I mean and y'all are welcome to chime in whenever you feel. But for me as a Writer, I'm not entirely sure cause. In the field of, I guess, writing like, I have a book coming out next year, but, it's not. It's my first book and so that would still, I think, kind of in some ways still classify me as emerging. But being public, like I will say, like, as a Writer and particularly of a Writer of Color and in the South. Publishing a book is like a lot, it's a big. It's a big milestone-
Julia:
Mm-hmm.
Reyes:
and it feels like that but I'm sure in the grand scheme of things. It's like it's just one book, you know, whatever dude, you know like, call me when you have three or whatever, you know. And it felt like- I think it's just a weird thing personally to navigate. Presumably because in the field of Art, you know, I think there's definitely an emphasis on the process rather than the product. And I think when you kind of do this thing across fields, you know, an Electrician there's Journey Electricians, there's Master Electricians, there's Apprentice. And I think there's kind of like some things, some guidelines that you hit. But in Art, like yeah. Like me, I've been writing for over about like 10 years but, publishing, not so much. But what is, you know. How do you quantify any of that?
Julia:
Mm-hmm.
Reyes:
And so. I don't know if y'all have anything to say kind of in connection to that or? Say I'm wrong or what, if any of you have any?
Julia:
Well, I think the gatekeeping for something that's a little more subjective. Like art is different from say, being an Electrician. Those categories have very hard and fast definitions. In Art, when you have another group of people whose kind of like loosely defining how they're gonna let you in or not to this new category. It gets, it gets tricky. I also think about my experience in Academia versus the larger Art world. You know in Academia. I used to be an Academic and my partner is still an Academic. It feels like there's just never enough. Like, you can never get enough things on your CV and you're always on this treadmill for promotion, or for tenure, or for keeping it, or getting a raise or whatever. But also because of the way that job market works, you could be an extremely accomplished Artist and not have a job that is reflective of that, you know. Like you could be an amazingly accomplished Artist and still be an Adjunct, right. And so being released from that world and that job market and kind of the like, gender, and race, and like those kinds of things that are affecting how that job market works. I had to think very differently about my career and where I was as an Artist, outside of that. You know, like where do I want my career to be? Where is it outside of those definitions and more in Art in general?
Reyes:
Yeah, it's kind of a side question. Hopefully. Maybe not too complicated, but. I mean, even like the formula of, like. I imagine like in the Arts, like I just see this kind of perusing like Artists CVs where it's like, a group show versus a solo show versus, you know.
Julia:
Mm-hmm.
Reyes:
X amount of things, like where there's like 50, like group shows. You know, quantify it against, you know 10 solo shows. I don't know, like. It seems like, I don't know. What's your experience with that? If you don't mind me asking?
Julia:
Yeiry, you wanna go first?
Yeiry:
Oh, I think it's the level of recognition, right. Like what does it mean to have, like a solo show here here domestically versus internationally, and stuff like that.
Julia:
Mm-hmm.
Yeiry:
But I think it's a matter of like, a way to quantify these career milestones that are like really ambiguous and like really. I don't know, I think it just makes no sense. For one, trying to- determine like the path cause there is not one linear path, right? It's not a certain age cap where you're considered emerging. It's not a certain, years of the craft or body of work, you know? It's really this unnecessary metric system to be considered in, like any of these, like labels.
Reyes:
Yeah cause I mean, I'll say like I've published a bunch of like stuff in different like journals and anthologies versus like, you know again, like I have one book coming out and it's kind of like. And those things only I guess matter like, in the context of like, if I want an academic job or like to teach, or something like that.
Julia:
Mm-hmm.
Reyes:
That then like kind of leaves out
Reyes:
someone that, whose whole purpose is let's say to publish Zines, right. And that's their art-
Julia:
Mm-hmm.
Reyes:
and that's their craft.
Julia:
Mm.
Reyes:
But in the world of Academia that's gonna be like, that's not a book though, you know? But to me it is, you know. And it's its own craft, it's own art form.
Julia:
Yeah, I think that goes for Artists who work in collectives as well, you know. In a sense sometimes, they may be punished in a way for working collectively rather than going it alone all the time, even though working really diligently with your collective can involve the same amount of work, and time investment and, thought that's put into it, you know. I do think. I mean, when I think about solo, amount of solo shows versus group shows. In visual arts, I just think about the time that may be invested. And so if I'm in a group show, I might be asked to put in one or two pieces. But if someone sees that I've had a solo show, they know that I had to consider an entire space on my own and figure out how to fill it. And that probably took me a year, or two, or even more to produce a body of work to fill that space. And so it just speaks to. I guess, ideally it would speak to your ability to work on a larger and longer term project successfully.
Reyes:
Yeah and again, there's. Well, I guess later we'll get to answering like. You know, how do we? How do we you know, measure these milestones or achievements? But then my next question then is, "When people or organization use the terms emerging, mid-career, established, et cetera." What do you think they mean? You know, maybe, "How would you define them?" If you have an idea? I'll just throw out for example, emerging. Julia? When you see kind of that word, what do you think? What do you think that word means and what it encapsulates?
Julia:
On the surface I guess it would be someone who is in the beginning stages of their career. I would define it more in terms of, the time that you've spent in your art practice. And also, maybe the milestones that you've hit. But some places define it by age which I think is really problematic. They'll say like, oh, emerging has to be under 30 or something, but if you were an Accountant for your whole career and then at 50, you had this like amazing, flowering of artistic ideas and became an Artist. Then why should you be excluded from that opportunity?
Reyes:
Yeiry?
Yeiry:
In terms of defining emerging?
Reyes:
Yeah.
Yeiry:
Yeah, I think it's unambiguous. I think there's like. Is it a one hit wonder? Is it like- who's asking? Is it a Jury? Is it a Curator? Like, are you writing a grant that like, because it's who the audience is, right?
Julia:
Mm-hmm.
Yeiry:
But I feel like emerging, is almost like in a sense of like, investment, right. Like if I buy now, like will this asset appreciate or depreciate? So I think I'm seeing it in like such a business lens. In terms of like, what does it mean to put on these labels and what does it mean to like, buy the work? But, I don't know. I feel like emerging, if I had to do some like, word association would feel like, lucky? Or some sort of like- There's a buzz or, kind of still figuring it out. Yeah, I don't think there is a certain category in which like that confines or where does it come from.
Reyes:
Yeah cause then here comes the mid-career. What does that mean? Yeah, Julia?
Julia:
So going back to this opportunity that turned on this little light for me to realize that I was mid-career now was. The way that they defined it was if you have shown your work in a major museum then you're probably not emerging anymore. Although, some museums may have a show of emerging Artists. So. I guess that would be one, I mean, that put me in the mid-career category. If you're going by age, I think people would look at me and say that I'm mid-career or because I have been out of my. Since I took a traditional track to my Art career, I've been out of my MFA Program for over 10 years. That's also sometimes one of the benchmarks. Like Yeiry said, I think also related to, people use it as a market designation. Where maybe a mid-career person is someone that you could more reliably invest in but, I hate to talk about art in that way. I guess maybe because I am in disciplines that are not as tied to the market like performance art, or video, or something like that. I think. The downside of that is I feel sometimes like, because of my age and my designation as mid-career now, I'm not like new, and shiny, and exciting anymore. The way that a 25-year-old Artist might be to someone. And I think it can be harder once you have built up a certain track record over a number of years. If people start to think of your. If they think of your name and they think of a certain type of work. Then it might be harder at that point, once you've built up a track record to make big changes in your work because people might see it as kind of coming from left field whereas when you're emerging. You know when you said, like, it's still figuring it out. It's also like, there's a lot of wiggle room for you to experiment more and kind of find yourself more. Even though, that should be a process that you're constantly doing over your whole artistic career. It should be free to do, you know.
Reyes:
Yeiry?
Yeiry:
Yeah, I think mid-career. Again, the word association is like consistency, right? Like a consistent creating work. Consistently creating work. Consistently building community. Selling, maybe, hopefully, possibly, right? But it's also, I really like that point that you brought up Julia about like, if you start experimenting with something zero. Does that clock reset, right? Does that career like
Julia:
Hmm.
Yeiry:
I've been doing some type of medium and then I'm gonna like completely switch over. Or is it also a matter of just finding your voice or your signature style? Like, is that where like that turn happens? Is it in mid-career? I don't know, I have more questions than answers at this point.
Julia:
I was reading in kind of prepping for this episode. And I thought it was funny someone said, "Mid-career is somewhere between underappreciated and overexposed.
Reyes:
Dang, yeah.
Yeiry:
That nails it. That.
Julia:
It sounds like a sweet spot. I don't know.
Reyes:
Yeah. Cause even in my own kind of approximation of my use of these terms, like. Yeah, I've seen them and hopefully this segues in to my next, the next question. But for me like, in terms of like, publishing? I'm emerging. In terms of my practice? I think of myself more kind of mid-career.
Julia:
Mm.
Reyes:
But also not. I don't know, I feel like in my practice, and in my craft, and my art, I'm still always learning. I still want to be learning. I still want to be open to new ways of thinking and like different Arts. But also, like for example. I don't know, like as a Writer, I feel like I'm more or less. Set in my ways or working towards something enough to be able to feel like, I can say like. If anyone asked me something about writing? I would feel qualified and able to give you a good answer.
Julia:
Hmm, I like that.
Reyes:
But as a Curator? You know, something that I'm trying to really like develop. I probably, I don't know -. I still don't know. Sorry, I don't know anything.
Yeiry:
We'll edit that out, in production.
Reyes:
Yeah like, I feel like in that realm, I still. I'm still like way emerging. But the thing is like, I think for me it's just because that language is a bit different for me, and so I'm still acclimating to that language of a curatorial role. And so in that way, you know, I'm still emerging. Because then established, we could. We could sit here and talk about what does that mean, established? But hopefully, maybe it goes in to the next question of like, when do you. When do, you know, you encounter these terms and labels, right? And for what purpose? You know and why, why do we think they're used? Julia?
Julia:
I see them mostly when it comes to grants, awards, residencies, and the Art market.
Reyes:
Yeah and so like, then. I guess to follow up with that then like, why do you think that matters, I guess? For the Art market or grants?
Julia:
Yeah. I mean for the Art market. I think, just what Yeiry said about. I mean, I'm. I'm not a Gallerist and I'm not super market heavy but, I think for a Gallerist to be able to say to a client, this is an emerging person which is really exciting. Like their work would cost less, but they might see it as more of a risk because they, you don't know very much about the longevity of that person's career. And then mid-career is somewhere in the middle. But then also you might, it might be less of a risk if you're thinking of your Art in terms of an investment. And then established is a great investment but it's gonna cost you a lot.
Reyes:
Yeah, Yeiry. You know in regards to, when do you encounter these terms and labels? And yeah, why do you think they're used?
Yeiry:
Absolutely. I think it's quick, right? It's a quick reference point for something that is so vague like career milestones. So I think it's when considering Art as an asset and creating like a price point structure for that whether it's like an Institution, a Gallery. It's usually the people not making Art. Not to be difficult. You know, no offense, I'm sure they exist sometimes. But it feels a little ridiculous, right? It's become like a co-modification of like these career milestones.
Julia:
Yeah.
Yeiry:
Where it's just like, is it valuable and to who? And like, is it for the commercial appeal of the work as well? So I think that's where I'm taking these labels a little too serious. In terms of like being able to use these as metrics and which as an Artist does not make any sense. Like these things, like don't like make sense to me. But in terms of, if it's a grant asking for this. Yeah, it's. It feels quick and I don't think it's really reflective-
Julia:
Mm-hmm.
Yeiry:
Of the worthiness and who places it on that, on the value of that.
Julia:
Yeah, I think for grants and shows, it's a quick way of. If the mission of the Art space or the award is to advance the careers of people who they feel have not had as much opportunity and they define that as emerging. Then it's a quick way for them to make those designations when they have hundreds of applications to go through. But when you're thinking about opportunity, that's not just. That's not just time and how much investment you put in to your career, you know? That's also like influenced by, by sexism, by racism, by like things that don't have anything to do with how you make your Art. And also, when we're talking about the market. Like you, I feel really uncomfortable because I don't wanna assign the value to Art only based on its monetary value, you know? I feel like mark, put. Like the value of Art is so all inclusive in our society. And to me personally, that, money doesn't often even enter in to it for me. Like when I'm in the studio, I'm not thinking about money. I'm thinking about ideas and I'm thinking about communicating with other people through my work.
Yeiry:
Mm-hmm.
Reyes:
Yeah. I think in some opportunities I've seen, like. Again, just speaking like from a Writer's point of view. I've seen some places where like they define emerging as like one or less books published.
Julia:
Hmm.
Reyes:
In some it's like, no book. No, you have not published anything before. Whereas mid-career is more like three books. But for me it's kind of like, well technically, I have like in my practice and getting like better. Trying to get better at what I do. I've technically written like three books, you know? So like? But that doesn't kind of like matter in some ways. But also like, it matters to me personally. Like obviously like for my craft but also like when I'm looking at these opportunities. I'll be like, oh, I'll put in, I'll put my name in anything that I could qualify for. You know like. In this context I'm emerging, sure you know. For $7,000, I'll identify as whatever, you know, I need to identify.
Julia:
Absolutely.
Reyes:
So it's kind of like, just. Even then like encountering whatever Institution or power is like using their metrics. It's almost even that way arbitrary-
Julia:
Mm-hmm.
Reyes:
-because then you're just, kind of following whatever that institution is defining that thing. I guess kind of as a follow-up question then like, what's been y'all's experience with that of like, The various definitions and like, I guess how you kind of navigate throwing your hat in to certain opportunities or applying for certain things? Even though you personally may identify as something else. Julia?
Julia:
Well yeah. Applying for things, it's always dictated by someone else. I'm just working within those constraints. Where it becomes useful to me personally, outside of those constraints? I think would be, thinking about like when I'm reevaluating my goals for my Art practice. What I want now. What I want in the future. Being able to have a way to assess where I am in my career can be helpful. Even though if I, you know, I can kind of like cobble together ideas that I have from everyone else's metrics, and then make my own. But just having that, knowing that that's the world that I operate in. It's helpful to me when I think about what I want my path to be.
Reyes:
Yeiry?
Yeiry:
Absolutely. I think it's about like agency and these labels, right. With any labels. Like if you don't decide for yourself, then it's gonna be placed on you. And I think it's a matter of-
Julia:
Mm.
Yeiry:
- like Julia said, to feel your comfort level with it. Like, is it dismissive or is it reflective of the work that you're doing. Or is it kind of like an enlightening moment where it's like, I have produced all this work. This is incredible, you know, like. It's a matter of finding what feels comfortable. But if you're applying, read the guidelines. As you know. As a Grantmaker. I would always recommend that point. But in terms of being able to kind of use that as a starting point of like, well, what does it mean? Let me find a definition that is reflective of the work that I'm doing and to kind of own it. Even as vague and there's no universal definition and there's no. You can always switch in between. Like, it's whatever feels right and I think that's. Artists are really good at finding what that looks like.
Reyes:
Yeah and then. My next question then is, you know, "What are the pros and cons of using these terms and labels?" And you know, "When should people care about these terms and labels?" And I say that because, you both kind of touched upon this. Is that like, yeah, like I think you should. You know in a lot of ways, if you're a Creative and you should take stock of like, the work you've done. Whether it be on a personal level of like, yo, I did all this work, you know. You know, I should be proud of myself, but also like, okay, I've done all this work. Now I know. Like I know what I'm doing and now I know what I'm charging is right. Or I know what the value of my work is, personally. And therefore I'm not gonna, you know, ascribe to this thing because that's just an excuse to undersell me or undercut me, you know. And so for y'all, what's maybe been some pros and cons of these terms and labels? Julia?
Julia:
Pros? I think you said it, you know. Getting to a point where you feel like you have accomplished things of what you feel you could be proud. And you. If you're keeping track of where you are in your career then that means that you can articulate it to someone else who may give you an opportunity that you want. So also, that's just the importance of really keeping track. For whoever's metrics you need to perform that for. The cons are, that it's other people's metrics and that you might feel, you know, like bad about where you are. Based on how, where somebody else thinks you should be at that age or at that stage and you really shouldn't. I feel like, mid-career and established are great places to aspire to be but they also shouldn't be places where you, feel like you can stop growing. You know? Like you should always have the freedom to just keep growing throughout your career, and your life, and not let those labels hem you in.
Reyes:
Yeiry?
Yeiry:
Yes, absolutely. I think the pros are that you can choose, right? Like you can choose what feels right and be able to back it up. And that way, it's kind of being able to Yeah, declare your worthiness and your value, and it doesn't have to have come at a price point. And I think the big con of it is being placed in a box unwillingly, right? Like if somebody else is telling you, this is what you're supposed to do. And the fact that they're just so vague, but I think it is. I think these labels are just another name for like recognition and again, another vague term. That could be another rabbit hole of conversation about who's recognizing it. But. I think they're useful in the sense of being able to like, challenge your perception of what does it mean? Like, am I emerging? Like, does that make me mad? Like, is that like dismissive? Like I see that as being able to kind of like, fuel you into like where it is that I wanna be. And like, how can I get there?
Julia:
Mm-hmm.
Yeiry:
But I think it is-
Julia:
I think-
Yeiry:
Oh, sorry.
Julia:
No, go ahead.
Reyes:
Go ahead.
Yeiry:
I don't know but I think, it is really trivial to kind of like. Again, "these career milestones" and to be able to put them in like these boxes.
Julia:
Yeah, what you said also makes me think about the question of audience, you know? You could be established or considered established because you have a really broad audience, but that's not always the best thing for somebody's art, you know. You might make something that's very controversial or very much, couched in a very specific cultural expression that not everyone is gonna, that not everybody is gonna understand. However, even if your audience is smaller that doesn't mean that your work is less powerful, meaningful, you know. And so being really real with yourself about like, who is my audience? Not everyone has to be my audience. And. And. If I'm making work. If I can define my audience then I can feel good about the work that I'm making for them, and for myself.
Reyes:
Yeah cause I will say that like, I have a writing mentor that technically has only published two books but they're like highly respected and like teaching all kinds of places and, you know. But again, like for anyone else, two books would still be like emerging but this person is like entrenched in like the literary world. And it's kind of like, yeah, what does any of it mean? And even then like, to what degree cause like, I will say that in like, in my experience with writing, it's like even the metrics used for Poets is totally different than like Fiction Writers. It's so. It can be so silly, but it can also be like. I don't know, yeah like it can be. Cause I will say when I deal, when I work. When I talk to Writers who have way more experience than me, then I'm like, oh yeah I'm still emerging. You know, like. But like. But then when I take stock of these things, I'm like, no, okay I've done a lot of work, you know. I'm not a nobody, like I've worked on these things really hard. I feel like I deserve, you know, some kind of like recognition or rather I deserve like to feel like I've done that work. And so I think-
Julia:
Mm-hmm.
Reyes:
I think you're both kind of like, hitting that as well of like, yeah, who is that for? Who are you taking these stocks for? And so I think that's really important that y'all. I think it's cool that y'all have mentioned that. And so, then goes in to kind of the last of the formal questions then of like, if we're taking stock of our experiences. We're thinking about, well then who for? Then, "what are some milestones, achievements and/or other accomplishments that Creatives should keep in mind to place themselves in their career and for what reason?" So for me, you know like I can. I have a CV, you know, every time I'm like, oh, I got on this panel. Okay, goes on the CV, cool. But yeah, like who's that for? And I just kind of keep stock of that in case if like, I wanna apply to a teaching position someday or something like that, but.
Julia:
Mm.hmm.
Reyes:
In terms of my practice. In terms of like my community building. I take stock of that to be like, I've talked about this and maybe I can revisit this in this way, in a different way now that. And then when the actual panel happens, for example, I can then think about that and restructure it and maybe learn something new. And so Julia, yeah. "What are some milestones, achievements and other accomplishments that Creatives should keep in mind?"
Julia:
Oh. It's a tough question because everybody wants something different. So I think the first step is really defining what you want and defining success for yourself. And once you define, what your success looks like? Then those are your goals and that's the way that you evaluate how you're meeting those benchmarks. Whether it be, selling a certain amount of work or showing in these very particular places or having your work written about. Any of those things could provide you with that kind of validation. I mean even, having a great conversation with somebody after your show who says that they've been impacted by your work. You know, there are so many ways to like, evaluate your impact. When I was thinking about not being emerging anymore and thinking, oh man, I don't, I don't have access to those opportunities anymore. Or people. People don't think of me as new and shiny anymore. I was thinking about, The Sound of Music which is one of my childhood favorite movies. And there's one part where Maria says, "When the Lord closes a door somewhere he opens a window." And so it's like, every change in your career or your status or your goals then, then opens up new paths for you. And you just have to keep that in mind.
Reyes:
Yeah, Yeiry?
Yeiry:
Absolutely. Everything y'all said. But I think also the most important part is create the work that excites you. Create the work that-
Julia:
Hmm.
Yeiry:
- challenges you. Create the work that needs to be seen, right. Or that a conversation that needs to happen outside of the thought process. Like, I think that is the most like, challenging part of this career. Where it's just kind of like, what is it that needs to come out in a way that feels right. And I think it's a matter of being able to be authentic in the work that you create. I know there's not as hard career advise to be like, get the MFA or get this like, publication. But someone that has like worked in the fringes with like self-publishing and just kind of finding their own path. I think that's been the most consistent. Like, only piece of advice I can give is just make the work that feels right, and authentic, and excites you because everything else will come along the way. You know, all the opportunities will come the way. The connections and stuff like that. Like it will be. It'll be set forth as long as you just continue doing the work. And I think that the consistency and the showing up for oneself, I think that's really hard. I think that's what, propels a career, right. And to be able to meet any of these opportunities that are available. And also to like not back down and not be dismissive of like, whatever goal it is. Like, if you want a billboard in Times Square, or if you want a table at a Zine Fest. Like those are the things that like, if that's your goal, then go for it. Like, and then just keep putting in, keep going, keep going. And find work that inspires you too because I guess not everybody has a very, you know, obviously linear path. So it's just kind of like, wait, how did so-and-so get there, right? And just being able to kind of learn from one's peers. You know, Academia or MFA's are not the only track for having an Artist career. And it's amazing if you do, and that feels right, then go for it. But as a person without one, that's where I'm just kind of like, there's different ways to accomplish and do the things that you wanna to do. And just keep doing the work.
Julia:
Yeah. When you say, look around at what other people are doing and Reyes, you mentioned your mentor. I think about, yeah. Seeking out mentors, you know. People who make work that you really respect. People who are in a place in their career that you feel like you want to go. See if they'll mentor you or just have a conversation with you about how they got there. And I think, re-evaluating and maybe getting to a later stage in your career. Also, you might wanna think about, is it my turn to be a mentor and to kind of like pass on that gift. You know, like take on that responsibility. You may not have all the answers but someone who's just beginning their career might really value your input.
Reyes:
All right, I think that's pretty much it. The only thing I would have to add is like, yeah. Like just, if there are people that you admire and whose work that you look up to, yeah. Look at their websites or look at their kind of like online presence and see how they quantify those things. If they're-
Julia:
Mm-hmm.
Reyes:
If the person you look up to is also like a Professor, they're probably gonna have like an Academic CV which probably means maybe, you know, look in to making one, if you don't have one already. Yeah, just kind of looking at what other, a lot of other people are having. How they're having these conversations. If you're applying for an opportunity and asked for a CV, then yeah. Then look that. Yeah, then look at yourself and take stock of that. But also just in terms of your personal growth, I think that's also important. Yeah, anyways. Hopefully that then kind of goes in to, well the end of the formal questions and now here's some hopefully fun questions. All right, so Julia who are some, you know, Houston Artists that you've looked at recently that you've liked, who's been creating work that has inspired you?
Yeiry:
Name drop.
Julia:
Uh.
Yeiry:
Name drop.
Julia:
Uh. Um. Let's see. Well, I wanna, I wanna shout out not an Artist but a Curator. I wanna say Ashley DeHoyos at Diverse Works has been consistently doing projects with Artists who are amazing locally and nationwide. And also, integrating those artists into the community when they come to do a project. The depth and breadth of the projects that she's curated, I think have been really great. One of those is a project by Candice D'Meza about the Sugar Land 95. And you can look up what that is but it's a really important part of the Houston area's history. I participated in a small workshop with her and I think it's gonna be a really amazing project.
Reyes:
Yeiry, who is a Houston Artist or Creative that-
Yeiry:
Aww.
Reyes:
-whose work- has inspired you lately?
Yeiry:
I feel it's a conflict of interest as a Grantmaker. No.
Yeiry:
So many, oh gosh. It's like having to pick. Geez. It feels like a cop-out but like everybody at the Witness Latinx Exhibition at the Holocaust Museum because I feel-
Julia:
Whoo!
Yeiry:
Exactly. Cause it was phenomenal. It was just like such a clear, an organization of just kind of like, the talent that Houston has and that everybody's local. And I think that was such a wonderful exhibit. So I'm not gonna name drop, just everybody. You can look them up. There's so many of them there as well. It's almost like a who's who, so.
Reyes:
All right, I think that's the only one I'll ask. I'm gonna ask just cause we're a little bit over time but you know what, that's just how it goes. Thank you, you two, for your knowledge and your experience, and I'll see you around.
Julia:
Thank you for having me.
Yeiry:
Thank you so much.
Julia:
It was a great conversation, thank you.
Spokesperson:
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