Emiko Jean on Crafting Resilience and Suspense in The Return of Ellie Black

In this episode, I chat with Emiko Jean, the New York Times bestselling author whose journey from various professions to the realm of writing is nothing short of inspiring. Emiko sheds light on her latest page-turner, The Return of Ellie Black, and the meticulous care she gives to her Japanese American characters. The world of publishing is fraught with uncertainties, but Emiko's candidness about her path, which took her from feeling disconnected to books she saw in libraries and bookshops due to her heritage, to celebrating representation in her work. 

The thread of survival and resilience weaves through our discussion, as Emiko draws upon true crime inspirations to craft narratives that echo the human spirit's enduring nature. She opens up about her five-year commitment to storytelling, infusing her characters with psychological depth, and confronting the repercussions of trauma. The novel's gripping conclusion—a twist devised to keep readers guessing—is a testament to her ability to create suspense that lingers beyond the final page. 

Finally, Emiko reflects on the arduous road to publication—the rejections, the revision under the guidance of an editorial agent, and the triumph of securing a two-book deal. Her approach to reading, favoring nonfiction during the writing process, and the unexpected delight in branching into new literary territories, underscores the ever-evolving nature of a writer's craft. Join us for this enriching episode, and remember to support your local indie bookshops by sharing your favorite finds for our future features.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:10

Hi, my name is Mandy Jackson-Beverly and I'm a bibliophile. Welcome to the Bookshop Podcast. Each week I present interviews with authors, independent bookshop owners and booksellers from around the globe, publishing professionals and specialists in subjects dear to my heart the environment and social justice. To help the show reach more people, please share episodes with friends and family and on social media, and remember to subscribe and leave a review wherever you listen to this podcast. To financially support the show, go to thebookshoppodcastcom, Click on support the show and you can donate through. Buy Me A Coffee. Okay, now let's get on with the show. You're listening to episode 251.

Speaker 1: 1:00

Emiko Jean is the New York Times bestselling author of the young adult novels Tokyo Dreaming and Tokyo Ever After, a Reese Witherspoon Hello Sunshine pick, as well as the novel Mika in Real Life, which was a Good Morning America book club pick. Emiko's latest novel is an adult thriller and is called the Return of Ellie Black. Here's a short synopsis. Detective Chelsea Calhoun's life is turned upside down when she gets the call Ellie Black. Here's a short synopsis. Detective Chelsea Calhoun's life is turned upside down when she gets the call. Ellie Black, a girl who disappeared years earlier, has resurfaced in the woods of Washington State, but Ellie's reappearance leaves Chelsea with more questions than answers. Hi, Emiko, and welcome to the show. It's great to have you here.

Speaker 2: 1:44

I am very excited to be here. Thank you so much for having me.

Speaker 1: 1:47

Before we start our conversation, I want to let you know how much I enjoyed the Return of Ellie Black. It is a page turning thriller. I loved it.

Speaker 2: 1:57

Well, thank you for reading. I mean, you spend a lot of time on a book, writing a book, and you never really know how it's going to be received until you put it out there, and so I'm always so honored and humbled when people like my work.

Speaker 1: 2:10

Well, you've written a wonderful book. Now let's begin by learning about you and what you did before becoming a writer. I mean, how much time do we have?

Speaker 2: 2:20

As long as it takes I took a long, winding path to becoming a writer. So I was always a prolific reader, like most writers, I think I had a love for reading at a very early age, but I never saw myself in the books. I'm Japanese American and I had never seen a Japanese character or even held a book written by a Japanese American author, and so I think that kind of created this thought in my brain that I couldn't be part of the publishing world. So I never even really pursued writing until later in life. I pursued other careers, such as being a teacher and a candle maker, a florist, I dabbled in entomology for a while.

Speaker 2: 3:05

You know, when I look back, I think I was searching for the right fit and that, you know, that fulfilling piece in my life and I was working at a job at a zoo that I was deeply unhappy at.

Speaker 2: 3:17

And that's when I really started writing and I would be at my desk and I was supposed to be doing something else and I would write chapters into my email. And that's when I remember that, like that light bulb turning on for me, that I really wanted to write and then it took a few years after that to really become established and become a published author I. You know that manuscript was eventually shelved and it never went anywhere, but it was a learning point for me in that this is really what I want to do, and so the next manuscript I was much more intentional with. I was thinking about the audience, I was thinking more about the plot, I was thinking more about the outline and the character arcs, and that was eventually the novel that I was first published with with Houghton Mifflin Harcourt. It will never be a part of the young adult thriller.

Speaker 1: 4:08

What you said earlier about not being able to see a reflection of yourself on a bookshelf is a topic I've been talking about with booksellers and authors lately because it is so important and much needed. It must be so lonely going into a bookshop or a library or school library and not seeing yourself reflected.

Speaker 2: 4:30

Yeah, I mean, I was cast out of stories and I didn't even realize it until I was much older and I looked back and I could see how I had been erased. And again, when I published my first book book, it had a white protagonist because I didn't think that, you know so, if I featured someone that looked like me, that it would sell. And then after that I purposely cast myself in the books or versions of what I looked like and that's become a real passion of mine is making sure that every book that I write features a Japanese American character or a Japanese character. And it's not necessarily, you know, like with the Return of Ellie Black, we have Chelsea Calhoun, who's a Japanese American detective.

Speaker 2: 5:14

But this isn't a book about identity. That's her race and she does have. You know, she has a certain lens in through which she views the world and how she's been treated by the world. But this isn't a book about her kind of reconciling her identity. It's a book about her, you know, chasing after Ellie Black and trying to figure out what happened to her. I just want to make sure that that journey of being a yellow body in America is showcased in all different ways because it can be presented in all different ways.

Speaker 1: 5:42

While I was reading the Return of Ellie Black, I didn't even think about Detective Chelsea Calhoun being Japanese-American. Rather, I was captivated by the fact that she was such a great character. She's a gutsy, diligent, mixed-up woman.

Speaker 2: 6:00

Yeah, I mean above all things, chelsea is a woman and that's really what drives her, is that deep empathy she has for other women and victim and that feels very universal to me Now the short synopsis of the Return of Ellie Black reads quote Detective Chelsea Calhoun's life is turned upside down when she gets the call.

Speaker 1: 6:20

Ellie Black, a girl who disappeared years earlier, has resurfaced in the woods of Washington State. But Ellie's reappearance leaves Chelsea with more questions than answers. End quote. This book is a mystery suspense thriller that culminates in a fantastic, unexpected twist. You've also branched out into another genre from your previous adult fiction novel, mika in Real Life. While it's not the first time you've written in this genre, it's your first suspense thriller for adults. What were some of the parallels of writing suspense for adults as opposed to young adults, and were there any challenges?

Speaker 2: 6:56

Yeah, so I have been fortunate to have the opportunity to publish in young adult and adult fiction and that's all purely a reflection of what I like to read and what I'm interested in. I think if you ask any reader, they usually have, you know, more than one genre that they enjoy reading, and that's the same case with me. I read kind of across the spectrum, yeah, but writing the two are totally different experiences. You know, of course there's the age of the protagonists, the state of their relationships and you really have to access like different voices. For me, when I approach young adults, it's more a reflection of the present day, so it's someone that's like processing what's happening to them in the present time and kind of shaping their identity.

Speaker 2: 7:44

And how I approach adult fiction is more at the reflection of the past. So what has shaped them and what are they trying to reconcile or grapple with? And in terms of thriller and suspense, I find that young adult is less focused. Yeah, if that makes sense. So if you look at kind of young adult literature, yeah, if that makes sense. So if you look at kind of young adult literature, there tends to be more blending, so you can have like a mystery rom-com with space elements, and but adult thrillers tend to be more focused. And so you know it's, it's, you're really lasering in on this, you know the psychological part of it, or the you know the mystery part of it, and so, yeah, and again, like they're for me, again they're a reflection of the past. So, like Mika and Mika in real life and Chelsea in the Return of Ellie Black are both wrestling with their past, which are essentially just shackles that are keeping them from moving forward.

Speaker 1: 8:43

That's really interesting. What you said reminded me of something a children's author once said to me, and that was when you write for children, you're writing about the first time for everything. In other words, it's the first time they see a frog, first time someone dies, the first time a friend steals a toy all of these different experiences. When you're writing for young adults, there's also many firsts for things, but the stakes are a lot higher. They may get their first kiss. They may fall in love for the first time, have their first sexual experience.

Speaker 2: 9:18

It's a complicated time in their lives, yeah, and I think the blending of it is kind of presenting them with like this buffet, like what are the elements of story that do you like? Do you like the mystery and the romance? Do you like more science fiction romance? And it's really helping them to kind of define what kind of literature they enjoy.

Speaker 1: 9:41

And reading is a safe way for young adults to explore certain life experiences through someone else's point of view. In an interview for Good Morning America about your novel Mika in Real Life, you said Did you have a theme in mind while writing the Return of Ali Black, and if so, what is it? And has the theme changed since the idea for the story first came to you?

Speaker 2: 10:20

Yeah, that's a really good question. So sometimes I understand, you know, why a story interests me on the outset and then sometimes I don't. I don't understand why I'm so drawn to this concept, and that was the case with Ellie Black, and the most prominent theme in the book is survival. And now that I kind of look back on why I kept with the story over five years I kept coming back to it and what continually interested me was a love of true crime stories and especially a fascination with stories about kidnapped victims who've returned, like the JC Duggards, the Elizabeth Smarts, the Amanda Berries and I was, I think I. I kind of questioned myself. I was like, well, why am I so interested in this? It feels kind of like wrong to be, you know, fascinated by this. I don't think I'm alone in that.

Speaker 2: 11:16

There's a lot of people that love true crime, women especially. But when I kind of unpacked it, I realized that I was interested in the endurance of the human spirit and so like answering that question of what happened to someone when they're kidnapped. But more importantly, how did they survive something that might have, you know, otherwise destroyed them and that was kind of where the whole book came from was like this starting point of a girl running through a forest you know who's long missing and assumed dead, and you know shows up and she says I'm Ellie Black, I think I'm missing. And that was always the first scene of the book. That was one of the things that stayed unchanged throughout writing it. And then, you know, layered underneath all of that are more guiding questions like that lend themselves to things like how we treat victims, the repercussions of trauma. Trauma is really interesting to me and it remains a high interest to me. So I think you'll continue to see that in books as I move forward. And of course, you know toxic masculinity, which is also discussed in Nellie Black.

Speaker 1: 12:23

The other thing that came up for me was a lot of manipulation, and that was just sickening. Once again, you did it really well, and it brought me to this because on page 19, you write, quote I learned that I didn't need shackles or chains to keep me bound. All I needed was four walls of pristine forest and fear, the kind that festers and blisters, makes your limbs twitch. Yes, the best prisons are the ones created in our own minds. End quote. That's a wonderful part of the book. As we read on, we discover what it is that keeps Ellie a prisoner in the forest and the root of her fear. Did you base this story on actual life events? You researched Because it feels so real.

Speaker 2: 13:11

It was definitely an amalgamation of, you know, different news stories, different events. I can tell you that what became the inspiration for Ellie's you know, quote unquote prison was and the forest was in that quote. You know, all you need is four walls of pristine forest was. I remember looking at a photograph of Ruby Ridge. I was fortunate enough in the process of writing this book to interview a FBI agent who was at Ruby Ridge and I mostly was interviewing him for kind of to get the logistical side of police work and how he approached solving a case. But afterward I looked up Ruby Ridge and I was kind of studying it because it would have been so interesting what he was telling me.

Speaker 2: 13:56

And there is an aerial photograph of the buildings and there's forests on all sides. And that's when I remember writing that line that you know you don't necessarily need fences to keep you caged. The woods are so, so frightening. You know I I pictured like a child or a teen trying to run into those woods and how scary that would have been and I crossed that with. I have a deep love for fort stevens, which is on the oregon coast. It's in a decommissioned world war ii bunker and I remember as a child exploring it and there were all these intricate kind of like rooms on these lower levels and these underground and with metal doors and I remembered exploring kind of all those dark spaces as a child.

Speaker 1: 14:46

There's another poignant line on page 286. Quote why did no one ever tell Lydia that the most dangerous thing in the world isn't natural disasters or wars or weapons. It is unremarkable men with beautiful smiles and even bigger promises. End quote. Did this idea flow as you were writing or was it there from the first concept of the story of the book?

Speaker 2: 15:12

I remember writing it very, very early in the process and it's something that flowed while I was writing. But throughout revisions I remember making sure that that line survived the cuts. It felt so important to me and I never again. It's one of those things where I go back because it's a line that's been highlighted. It's one of those things where I go back because it's a line that's been highlighted, you know to me in other interviews as being impactful and I guess I understood it as that way because I wanted to keep it through each revision.

Speaker 2: 15:42

But I didn't really understand why it was important to me and the true meaning of it, which was that it highlights violence against women. I mean, if you Google search biggest health threat to women, the answer that pops up is intimate partner violence, and so one in three women on the planet will be raped or beaten in her lifetime. We live with this threat and as a girl, I think I remember learning to walk with keys between your knuckles, to not jog before sunset, you know to always cover your drink and you know I think subconsciously, that's where that line comes from is that you have to be aware of, like these seemingly benign men?

Speaker 1: 16:26

Well, I'm not surprised at all that this line has been brought up in other interviews. For me it practically jumped off the page. It could be the parent in me. I remember when I had my two sons it was as if a switch was switched on and you become so ultra protective of that child and you know our deepest fear or one of mine was one of my sons getting stolen. So that line, like I said, jumped out at the page for me. Now, without giving away any spoilers, did you have the ending twist mapped out when you started writing?

Speaker 2: 17:02

Yeah, that was the ending twist was from the original iteration of the novel, but as I went through in later stages, I went through and added more. You know a river kind of leading, and you know leading the reader that way but that they don't necessarily see that they're being swept into this. Um, that makes sense because they wanted to make sure that it it didn't come from nowhere, that it felt really earned. And you know, I as a as a reader of thriller and a lover of thrillers, one of my favorite things is to be shocked but to go back and say, oh, I should have seen that.

Speaker 1: 17:43

Yeah, I did ask myself that question.

Speaker 2: 17:45

Yeah, it's kind of a and it's hard to that slight of hand.

Speaker 1: 17:50

It is difficult, but, my goodness, you did it so well. Okay, well, I would love to hear your publishing story, from your first finished manuscript to finding an agent and a publisher.

Speaker 2: 18:00

Yeah, so you know, as you know, I started in young adult literature and the first book that I wrote was kind of around the Twilight craze, and so it was actually like a young adult romance fantasy. I did find an agent for that manuscript and it ended up not working out. That relationship fell apart and she had submitted the manuscript but there were a lot of rejections on it and I kind of just understood then that it was a manuscript that wasn't meant to be in the world. It was my first book that I'd ever written. Of course it wasn't ready to be published published and so after that I wrote another book, which was the young adult thriller, and I submitted that probably a year. It took me about a year to work on it and then I submitted it and it. I did get an agent with that book who I've been with now for the last.

Speaker 2: 18:54

I guess Aaron and I have been together for over 10 years and I really wanted to sign with an editorial agent, so someone that would help me kind of shape up the manuscript and get it ready for submission, and so she sent me I think it was like a probably a 12-page editorial letter. I was such a newbie and such a baby into this process. I had no idea. I thought you just like wrote a book and then it was published. I had no idea. I thought you just like wrote a book and then it was published. I had no idea the intense hard work that went into writing. And so she sent me this little page editorial letter and it took me a while to kind of move through it.

Speaker 2: 19:36

And so we revised the book for about a year, maybe even two years, before we submitted it and that went to auction and it landed with Houghton Mifflin Harcourt. The book sold and it was part of a two book deal and actually Ellie Black was meant to be the second book of that two book deal. And I had written it, I had submitted it and my editor at the time said I don't think this is, you know, for the young adult market, and that's when I started to consider it more for the adult market. I did end up. I wanted to stay with YA for a little while and establish myself more. So I wrote another young adult novel and I've written more since, but I always returned to Ellie Black and it wasn't until about a year ago I realized that I wanted to include multiple point of views for Ellie Black, and that's kind of when the novel, like all, crystallized and gelled and it was when I felt like it was ready was when I included the multiple point of views and then we sold it shortly after that.

Speaker 1: 20:40

I love how you said you kept returning to Ellie Black and of course that's the name the Return of Ellie Black. It's somewhat synchronistic. I have to bring this up because I felt so excited for you when I read this. Stephen King did a great blurb for your book quote the Return of Ellie Black is a pageurning suspense novel, a shrewd character study and a captivating mystery all at the same time. The last 50 pages are magnetic. I couldn't put it down until I'd experienced every last twist and turn. Stephen King, what was your first thought? What was going through your head when you read Stephen King's review?

Speaker 2: 21:22

To be honest, it was incredible. I had to read it a few times. My editor sent me the quote and we had had a discussion. She was like who would who do you think you want to like present this book to, you know, for blurbs? And so I made like a list and I had put Stephen King's name on it and kind of as like a joke, because I never really expected him to read it, and so I forgot about it. And then she sent the quote and it was late at night Well, it was nine o'clock my time here in the Pacific Northwest, so in New York it must have been like midnight or something and I was like why is my editor emailing me so late at night?

Speaker 2: 22:01

I was like why is my editor emailing me so late at night? And there was his quote and he just, you know, he just wrote I like this book very much. And then here's a quote and you know he signed it, stephen King, and that's a real career highlight for me. And it still seems very, very surreal. I mean, I admire him and I respect his writing so much. I've read his books, you know, on writing, and he's been such a formative presence in my writing life that to have him read an end quote for the book is. I really have no words for it. It's really incredible.

Speaker 1: 22:35

Well, it's well earned for sure, and I have to say I think his book on writing is one of the best books on writing out there.

Speaker 2: 22:44

Yeah, I've read that several times.

Speaker 1: 22:47

Okay, Emiko, what are you currently reading?

Speaker 2: 22:50

When I'm working on a novel, which I am right now. I don't really read that much because I kind of like to stay in a certain space, but I have been. While I've been working on this book, I've been mostly reading nonfiction. I know it's not as thrilling for people to hear that, and that's where it's like. This new book that I'm working on includes another kind of mother-daughter relationship and some mother-daughter elements. I'm still really interested in that and so I've been reading some nonfiction about the complexities of those relationships and so I've been reading some nonfiction about those, the complexities of those relationships. But before I read that and before I started drafting, I read Annie Bot. It's sci-fi, which I usually don't drift into.

Speaker 2: 23:30

Science fiction. That's kind of the one genre that I feel a little frightened of. But it was so highly recommended and I absolutely tore through it. It was a really fascinating look at what it means to be a woman and power and control in relationships and freedom. It's about artificial intelligence. I didn't say that, but it was really really beautifully done. And you know, for those that kind of veer away from science fiction, I would encourage them to read this book because it's had so much more than that.

Speaker 1: 24:01

Yeah, I agree with you there. I mean, one of my favorite books of all time was the Sparrow, written by Mary Doria Russell. I had no idea I was going to be going into sci-fi when I picked up this book, but everyone kept telling me it was fantastic. And they were right. It was wonderful because it's all about relationships. And the other one is a book I just read recently called Afterword, by Nina Schuyler. It's about AI, but it's a love story and it's absolutely beautiful. So, yes, don't shy away from those sci fi books, especially books on AI. I agree.

Speaker 2: 24:35

I have a science background, but that stuff it often feels too smart for me. That stuff it often feels too smart for me and that's why I'm frightened. I'm not sure and so, yeah, I'm not. I don't mean to to tread upon science fiction or science fiction writers. They're brilliant, brilliant, and that's why I feel frightened of it. But this one felt a little bit more accessible and I think that's why I kind of I decided to read it.

Speaker 1: 25:01

Amiko, thank you so much for being a guest on the show and thank you for writing the Return of Ellie Black. It's a fabulous book and I look forward to chatting with you when your next book is published.

Speaker 2: 25:14

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Hopefully our paths cross again and again. Thank you for reading and for liking the novel. I can't remember if I said this at the outset, before we started recording, or after, but I just want to reiterate that I'm always so honored and humbled when people want to discuss the book, and I loved your questions and I really appreciated the conversation.

Speaker 1: 25:36

You've been listening to my conversation with author Emi Ko Jean about her new book, the Return of Ellie Black. To find out more about the Bookshop Podcast, go to thebookshoppodcastcom and make sure to subscribe and leave a review wherever you listen to the show. You can also follow me at Mandy Jackson Beverly on X, instagram and Facebook and on YouTube at the Bookshop Podcast. If you have a favorite indie bookshop that you'd like to suggest we have on the podcast, I'd love to hear from you via the contact form at thebookshoppodcastcom. The Bookshop Podcast is written and produced by me, mandy Jackson-Beverly, theme music provided by Brian Beverly, executive assistant to Mandy Adrian Otterhan and graphic design by Francis Farala. Thanks for listening and I'll see you next time. Thank you.