Teach Middle East Podcast
Welcome to the Teach Middle East Podcast, the ultimate audio hub where educators find inspiration, share innovative ideas, and grow together! Brought to you by Moftah Publishing—the minds behind the premier Teach Middle East Magazine—this podcast is your gateway to the latest research-based practices, cutting-edge classroom strategies, and the heartwarming stories of educators from the Middle East and around the globe.
As the only podcast that interviews school leaders from across the Middle East and beyond, we offer unparalleled insights into the challenges and successes that shape educational landscapes in diverse settings. Join us as we dive deep into the fascinating world of education, where every episode promises a treasure trove of insights designed to connect, develop, and empower the brilliant minds shaping our future. Whether you’re seeking fresh perspectives, practical tips, or a dose of inspiration, the Teach Middle East Podcast is your must-listen resource. Tune in and transform the way you teach!
Teach Middle East Podcast
Navigating School Leadership: A Conversation with Caz Jude
What makes a great educational leader, and how can coaching support those in challenging leadership positions? In this conversation with former school head turned leadership coach Caz Jude, we dive deep into the transformative power of leadership coaching in education.
Leadership can be isolating, especially in today's rapidly changing educational landscape. Caz shares how coaching provides school leaders with something essential yet often missing: a safe space to reflect honestly, celebrate successes, and work through challenges with someone genuinely invested in their development. "Don't teachers deserve to work for a leader that has a coach?" she asks, highlighting how a leader's emotional wellbeing directly impacts their entire school community.
With over twenty years of headship experience across the UK and the Middle East, Caz offers unique insights into leadership transitions, cultural adaptations, and recognising when it's time to pivot your career path. Her candid reflections on moving from traditional headship to coaching reveal valuable lessons about professional growth and avoiding burnout.
The conversation takes a particularly illuminating turn when addressing the specific challenges women face in educational leadership. Why do qualified women hesitate to put themselves forward for leadership roles? How can current leaders nurture the next generation of female leaders? Caz shares practical strategies for building confidence, developing powerful networks, and adopting a growth mindset that focuses on process rather than perfectionism.
Whether you're currently in a leadership position, aspiring to lead, or simply interested in educational dynamics, this episode offers valuable insights about authentic leadership, emotional intelligence, and creating supportive environments where everyone can thrive. Connect with Caz on LinkedIn or check out her new podcast "She Leads Because She Can" to continue exploring these important themes in educational leadership.
Bio: Caz Jude is a leadership coach dedicated to empowering female leaders to be the best version of themselves. She is also a co-presenter of the Podcast. ‘She Leads Because She Can’ with Sue Aspinall. Caz has over 30 years of experience as a headteacher, educational leader, teacher and school inspector in both the UK and international settings. A specialist in early years education, leadership, and management. She has led outstanding schools in the UK and internationally and is recognised globally for her heart leadership.
Connect with Caz: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cazzie-jude-7496382b/
Teach Middle East Magazine is the premier platform for educators and the entire education sector in the Middle East and beyond. Our vision is to equip educators with the materials and tools they need, to function optimally in and out of the classroom. We provide a space for educators to connect and find inspiration, resources, and forums to enhance their teaching techniques, methodologies, and personal development. We connect education suppliers and service providers to the people who make the buying decisions in schools.
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Hosted by Leisa Grace Wilson
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Speaker 2:Hey everyone, this is Lisa Grace, welcoming you back, or welcoming you if this is your first time listening to the Teach Middle East podcast. Welcoming you, if this is your first time listening to the Teach Middle East podcast. My guest today is Kaz Jude, and she is a former school leader, now leadership coach, and we have a lot to dive into Now. I know that there's a lot of talk about leadership at the moment, about coaching, about what we need to be doing as school leaders to make sure that we ourselves don't burn out, that we don't end up in a place where we're not effective. So Kaz and I are going to talk and we're going to get to know each other and you're going to get to know Kaz as well. Welcome to the podcast, kaz.
Speaker 3:Thank you and I'm really glad to be here, very excited to join you today.
Speaker 2:Thank you for joining us Now. I know that a lot of people, when they hear about leadership coaching, they think it's not for them. So I'm just going to go straight in and ask you why do leaders need need coaches?
Speaker 3:I can understand why people think it's not for them, and I think there's some leaders it isn't. I work with somebody. She said I'm happy with who I am, I'm happy the way I am and I don't want to change and I've got no interest in having a coach. But then she was very supportive me coaching of a female, female leaders. That was a really interesting conversation. I think education has changed.
Speaker 3:When I first became a head teacher in 2004, I had mentors around me. I had a wonderful school advisor. He made sure I had two mentors take care and look after me and then that increased my network and I had other people as a young head who were more experienced, who really nurtured me and developed me. Now the situation's different, isn't it? It's changed and I had a coach a couple of times.
Speaker 3:Actually, I self-ventured a coach and it really made a difference because they're there to make you stop for a little bit, reflect and see what you're doing really well, so they're like your own cheerleader and then also help you when things are really tough and really help you and pick what you're finding challenging and help you find those solutions from within, and it just gives you somebody who's really invested in you and wants you to be the best that you can be, and sometimes I flip it. Sometimes I think don't teachers deserve to work for a leader that has a coach and from that point of view, why do you think teachers deserve to work for a leader who has a coach?
Speaker 3:I think if you've got a coach, it gives you somebody to talk to, somebody to go and sound off about, and you can actually say unfiltered what you're really thinking and just get something out of your system.
Speaker 3:But then that person's quite rational as well and they'll help you restabilize yourself and they'll re-energize you as well and give you that extra oomph to keep going and help you realize that you are doing the best job that you can. But it's such a hard job and you're not perfect at it and you do need support and love whilst you're doing it. And to have a leader that has that and has someone there supporting them and holding their hand, that helps the team as well, doesn't it? Because the more balanced you are, the calmer you are, the more empathetic you are and emotionally intelligent you are, the better you are at running your school, the more supportive you are of your team. And I know now a lot of leaders say, oh, emotionally intelligent leadership. But actually really, what is emotionally intelligent leadership? It's about, when you're emotionally intelligent, those people in your team that you find more challenging to lead and manage. That's what true emotional, intelligent leadership is about.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I do also think that when you have a coach, you learn techniques that help you to coach the people that you have to work with. What do you think about that?
Speaker 3:Yes, yes, it stops you from jumping in all the time with solutions, because naturally, as leaders, we want to give the solutions, don't? We want to say, oh look, this is what you need to do, this is how you do, it be fine. But actually, as a coach, it makes you stop and ask those questions because your solution might be right for you but might not be right for that person. So it makes you stop and really listen to what that person is saying to you and telling you and helping you unpick. And it also enables you to give time to your team as well and you start to understand the value of time and actually stopping for half an hour and spending that time with that person can actually reap rewards, more so than if you spent five minutes engaging solution. And what you're doing, by using some of your coaching techniques that you're having with your team, is empowering them to be the best that they can be as well, and encouraging them as well, and developing them and supporting them, and that's so very, very important yeah, I agree.
Speaker 2:Take me back to your time as a head. How did you know that it was time for you to make a move out of headship?
Speaker 3:um, I think I reached the point, if I'm honest, when I was like on the verge of burnout. I was becoming exhausted and I was also becoming very interested in projects outside of school as well, like the coaching um, working on early years, speaking at conferences um, doing a little bit of inspection work and accreditation as well, and widening what I was doing at the school, and I felt that, yes, it could be my heart and soul to it, but maybe it was just time to take a leap of faith and go in a slightly different direction. And, after over 20 years of headship, maybe it was time to move on and do something slightly different where I could support and empower the next generation of headteachers and leaders coming through and really make a difference to them and help them be the best that they can be.
Speaker 2:Yeah, talk to me about your time as a head. What made the job memorable for you?
Speaker 3:The people, definitely the people. It was lovely to watch people grow and develop in their roles. So my staff I was originally a head teacher, they were career teachers, they were a lot older than me really experienced and it was wonderful to give them opportunities to shine. But being part of that team, part of that family, but really like growing your own leaders as well. One of the first teachers, who was an NQT when I was a headship she's recently got her first headship and that was just amazing to celebrate that she'd achieved that. And it's giving something back, isn't it? And it's nurturing your team and looking after your team and being there for you and giving them opportunities to lead and shine and uplifting them as well tell me where.
Speaker 2:Where were you ahead and how long for?
Speaker 3:I was ahead in the UK in a school in Sully Hall, a large infant school in Sully Hall. That was my first headship and then, when I moved abroad, I did two headships in Abu Dhabi and I went out to Qatar as well and set up a school in Qatar and I was head of primary and vice principal there and that was a wonderful experience to do a start-up school from scratch and make it what you wanted to make it, and working with a team of NQTs at the time and training and mentoring them was a real privilege at the time, and training and mentoring them was a real privilege.
Speaker 2:Yeah, compare for me then, solihull, abu. Dhabi. What are the major differences that you noticed apart?
Speaker 3:from the weather.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I think there's lots of similar similarities, strangely enough, more than differences. In both those situations I was working early years and early years head teacher and had very experienced teams who are highly motivated, who understood early years education, worked really very hard and also held you to account as a leader and wanted a lot out of you as a leader, wanted you to be the best that you could be, and they were both very dynamic teams and so similar in so many ways. It was just the fact you were leading in a different country and one was more multicultural than the other team, but because they had the children at the heart of everything that they did and they worked really hard and wanted to do the best, they were very similar, really similar, and you, if met them, you'd think they were quite different, but actually to lead them, they were very similar and just so passionate about what they did and the conversations that you could have with them were amazing and a lovely group of women to lead but having very high expectations of the leadership team.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and your return to the UK. What prompted that?
Speaker 3:It was just time to leave. It was family circumstances that really were the catalyst for it, and we didn't really have much choice and we had to move back, which actually is harder than moving abroad.
Speaker 2:Why? Let's dive into that a little bit.
Speaker 3:I think things change. It was just the little nuances, I think. We came back and we had to move back into our previous house and it was different from how we'd left it and the whole experience has just been very, very strange and really difficult to put into words and it was like almost like your life had stopped and everybody else's life had moved forward. And I went to my friend's house that's most staffing. She got this really lovely carpet in her living room. I was like, oh, that's a really lovely carpet and it just it was just a really strange feeling and I can't explain what it was about this carpet that she got. But it's like, oh, that's really lovely.
Speaker 3:And I think it's because we came back and at the time we'd got no furniture, we'd got nothing, and it was like the last 14 years hadn't happened and I had to remind myself that I had to reconnect, if you like, with my overseas past to be able to move forward again and realize that I hadn't actually been sleeping for 14 years. But it was a very, very bizarre experience.
Speaker 2:What do you think makes the transition back to the UK so difficult, especially for people who would have lived in the Middle East?
Speaker 3:I think you do change. I think you do change quite a bit about realizing that you've changed. And when you come back, people are used to you not being around, so you have to be very proactive to move back into your social circles and be part of that again. And I think you've grown as a person and you're not quite the same person that you were when you left. So that's very different. And I think for me, the main thing coming back was the weather, which I hadn't realized when I lived here. But the winters are harsh and I hadn't realized quite how harsh the winters are. Yeah, what?
Speaker 2:what part of England did you move back to?
Speaker 3:We moved back to near Birmingham and that's just solely because we've got a house here. So I don't think we've bought back into coming back here in the way that when you go abroad you buy back into that area. So we're thinking about where do we want to live in the country. So we're almost in a holding pen, if you like, whilst we plan what our next steps are going to be and what we move on to, and I think that's the difference. I think if you come back somewhere, I'd be saying to somebody oh, sell your house, you've got a house in the UK If you're going to go back and choose where you want to live and buy a house where you want to be before you come back, so you've already started your new adventure.
Speaker 2:Yeah, how long have you been back? Um roughly about seven or eight months now, just about nearly you're, you're. You're soon, I think. I think after maybe a year or two, you might feel a little bit more settled.
Speaker 2:I have to be honest, my listeners, that's one of my biggest fears is how do I move back, if, if ever, to the UK and what does that look like for us as a family? And, if I'm upfront, it doesn't look like being there full time. It just doesn't, because I feel like I would want to always have the option of not being there in the winter and I just feel like I wouldn't be able to hack it for a full year. And I also find what you're saying is true. So when we go back in the summers, my friends, even though we see each other and we love and we have a good time, I feel like there's a little bit of a gap there and it's widening the longer I've been away.
Speaker 2:This is my 14th year going into my 15th and the gap is widening Every time I go back. There is a little bit of widening of the gap in terms of where I am and where they are, and it's nothing personal, it just is All right, is all right changing gears. If you were a brand new female leader, what would you be looking to do to ensure that you have longevity in this role?
Speaker 3:um, I would first of all like form really strong relationships and strong bonds with my team. That is important, that's so key, and it's about walking the talk, being values driven, but also, what you say is what you do and lead from the heart and be very authentic and be your true self. And if you're not, people will see straight through you straight away. So choose your leadership style that's right for you. Don't do what's fashionable. Do what's right for you and what's true. And I'd also say that if you're working in an international school, um, be aware that you have to develop networks and leaderships throughout the school. So think about how you're going to be working with the board of directors, the principal, the ceo and the wider leadership structure as well. That's really key to your success. So it's not just about leading and developing your team. It goes much wider than that, and I think that's the difference between being a head in the UK and a head in an international school, because they tend to be through schools.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I agree with you in terms of that forming that network and especially making sure that you have allies in all the different areas, because that's going to serve you very well. But then there are a group of women who are just really not putting themselves forward for leadership, and I'm not sure why. We talk a lot about it and we talk about the divide between, you know, male and female leadership, and the numbers and the gaps, et cetera, but why are women not putting themselves forward? Do you think?
Speaker 3:I think with women this is just a very generalised comment that with a man, if he looks job description, you can do part of that job description. He'll apply for the role. With a woman, they tend to feel that they've got to do it all before they do apply. Then I think there's a bit of imposter syndrome creeping in there. There's a bit of lack of confidence. There's also responsibilities with family life and everything else going on. But I think it's just about having the confidence to push yourself forward and think, well, why not? What's the worst thing that's going to happen to you? The worst thing is they're going to say no.
Speaker 3:And if you do it and actually think, actually this ship's not for me, well, you can always take a step back and say, well, at least I tried it and I had to go. But also I think as leaders we've got a duty of care to the next generation of leaders coming through and we should be uplifting women in our teams and encouraging them and celebrating what they do well. And as a leader, if you're part of a wider leadership team, it's not taking the celebration and kudos for yourself, but actually saying oh no, so-and-so led on that they did a really good job and celebrating the achievements of people within your team. So as you uplift your team, you're actually uplifting yourself as well. I think it's really important that we do that, and I don't think enough of that is done. So, therefore, I always feel that our team is as confident as they should. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I also think a lot of the times because as women, we have so many other responsibilities outside of school. We often worry that are we going to be able to manage to fulfill all the roles that we do effectively? You know that of wife and mother and sister and daughter and partner, and then leader. It's just this extra bit on top, whereas a man does it because he knows I have a wife who will support me and so my focus is on this and they can know that everything else is taken care of, whereas the woman has to also think of those responsibilities as well as thinking about where she fits on the leadership spectrum. I wanted to, as we get down to the tail end of the podcast, talk to you about some of the things that you have noticed that are gaps in terms of development for women in leadership. Where are the gaps? What are women needing?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think women are needing to grab any opportunity that comes towards them and make the most of it. And I think sometimes you're right we say, oh no, I can't do that course, and often it's due to family and balancing family. So it's making the most of any opportunity, being proactive and also working together, working in partnership. More together Together, we're much stronger. It more together, together, we're much stronger. So it's having an ally, if you like, to work with a partner in crime to help lift one another up, and it's developing each other.
Speaker 3:So, if you're a leader, I've always led with quite a flat structure, so I'm quite happy if I'm out of school. Even if I'm in school, I don't mind if, like my deputy head or my assistant head sits at my desk, it doesn't bother me things like that or no, I'll come in and if they're sitting there, I'll go and sit somewhere else. And it's that co-leadership and allowing them to make decisions as well and standing by the decisions that they've made. And so this co-leadership and working in partnership I don't think we do enough of that. And then that's giving the people leadership skills, about them always realizing and supporting them, and it's that belief, isn't it?
Speaker 3:I think women sometimes lack that. Actually they can do the job and they can do the job really well. So give it a go, why not? But you've got to be confident enough to drive yourself forward and we've all got a bit of imposter syndrome, but we all know that. But actually just try and bat it away and say, oh, go and give it a go and not listen to it, or listen to it and then shove it to one side but actually think I've listened to you, but I disagree.
Speaker 2:I'm going to go for this and go for it and do it yeah, I think when it comes to imposter syndrome and we're never going to get rid of it, but I think we just tell ourselves we'll do it anyway, we'll give it a go anyway, and don't get too attached to the results, because when you get so attached to the results, that's when you get anxious, but just get more attached to the process and the learning and the growth that comes from just giving things a go right.
Speaker 3:Oh, I really like that. Attach yourself to the process and the growth. That's what it's about, isn't it? Because we all get things wrong, we all make mistakes. We've all had moments where we're just sort of dying, thinking, oh, I just don't believe it. But actually that's what the journey's about, and some people just brush things off like that, quite simply, others of it really internalize it. Yeah, but we learn to think. That's part of our growth, part of our development. We made a mistake because we didn't know what we didn't know exactly what we didn't know. We didn't know what we didn't know Exactly. Take it forward with you and give it a go.
Speaker 2:So, kaz, now that you're back in the UK, what are you working on? What are you up to? What's on the horizon?
Speaker 3:There's quite a few things on the horizon. I'm coaching coaching mainly women and uplifting them. I'm mentoring teachers at the start of their career as well. I'm mentoring teachers at the start of their career as well. I'm doing some assessment work as well, some moderation work, some inspection work, some school improvement work. I'm an advisory member of the WISE board, empowering female leaders across the world. And then recently, I've just started a podcast with Sue Astinol called she Leads Because she Can, to empower the next generation of female leaders.
Speaker 2:Brilliant. Sounds like you're quite busy. I will leave links to your LinkedIn or wherever you can get contacted and also maybe link to the podcast so people can check it out. But it's been a pleasure having you on the podcast and I know that when it comes to empowering female leaders, it's a work that continues. So good luck and all the best in the work that you are embarking on.
Speaker 3:Thank you so much and it's been so lovely to be here today and I've really enjoyed it. Thank you so much for your time.
Speaker 2:You're welcome.
Speaker 1:Thank you for listening to the Teach Middle East podcast. Visit our website teachmiddleeastcom and follow us on social media. The links are in the show notes.
