Culture, Connection and School Leadership with Mike Gilmour

We trace Mike Gilmour’s journey from Cape Town to Dubai, unpack how apartheid shaped his lens on inclusion, and dig into the daily mechanics of building a healthy school culture. We also explore AI’s pressure on old models and the human work that must endure.

• early life in South Africa and university lessons on diversity
• path from nonprofit sport to teaching and leadership
• international moves, Singapore to Dubai, and why each mattered
• What makes Dubai American Academy distinctive
• leadership strengths: communication, organisation, presence
• practical culture builders and boundary setting
• autonomy, fewer meetings, no after-hours email norm
• wellbeing habits, family life, and modelling balance
• AI’s coming shock to education and the human edge that remains

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:04

You are listening to the Teach Middle East podcast. Connecting, developing, and empowering educators.

Welcome And Guest Setup

SPEAKER_01 0:17

Hey everyone, Lisa Grace, welcoming you back to another episode of the Teach Middle East Podcast. Today we are doing a behind the principal's desk episode, if you like, with the deputy superintendent of the Dubai American Academy, Mike Gilmore. And Mike just made me aware of the fact that that international accent that you hear is actually South African with a mix of, you know, all the places that he's lived. So we're going to dive in and learn a little bit more about who Mike is, what makes him tick, how he manages to run or help to run such a massive organization. Dubai American Academy has a fantastic reputation in the space, and we want to learn all about it. Hello, Mike.

SPEAKER_02 1:05

Hi, Lisa. Thanks so much for having me on the podcast. It's good to be with you. And uh hi to all the listeners out there.

SPEAKER_01 1:12

Thank you. Thank you for being here. South Africa. Where? How? When? Why?

Cape Town Roots And Early Life

SPEAKER_02 1:20

Well, Cape Town, South Africa is my home. It's uh where I grew up, uh, spent most of my life, um, and uh obviously early part of my career. Uh it's a place we love uh to this day. We absolutely love it. In fact, we love the continent of Africa and we love traveling around there. But uh yeah, grew up in Cape Town, South Africa, and then had the privilege of moving overseas and working internationally uh in Asia and then moved to the Middle East a couple of years back where I find myself now. But uh yeah, family remain in South Africa, at least most of them, and uh we do our best to try to get back there and stay connected as much as we can.

SPEAKER_01 2:00

If the people know anything, they know I love Cape Town. I've been there several times. Oh, right. Oh, brilliant. Yes, I have gone all around that place. I absolutely love it. We stayed on Camps Bay, House Bay, Sea Point, Fish Hook, like you name it, your girl's been there. I absolutely love that place. I've always said to myself, when I make money, which I don't know when, but whenever I want to have a villa on Camps Bay, like I really do. That is my dream. I should put that on a vision board. Tell me how was how was life growing up in in South Africa?

University Lessons On Diversity

SPEAKER_02 2:41

Yeah, it's interesting. Well, I mean, all the places you mentioned are just absolutely spectacular. So uh look, growing up in South Africa was yeah, like any childhood, it was uh it was I thought was very good. Um only in later years did I realize that the system I was growing up in was incredibly abnormal, in that uh most of my in fact, my whole primary school career, um, yeah, till 92, uh was growing, I was living under apartheid, under apartheid regime. Um, and so you know, growing up, I I just thought everything was normal. Um although we realized later how abnormal life actually was there for for someone growing up in the suburbs where I grew up. So um look, we we had a wonderful life growing up, but you were always aware that there was um something very sinister and and different at play when you even just looked up at the makeup of the school that I went to, where everyone looked like me, right? Uh until time is as things started to change, and and thank God that they did change, right? And and we celebrate that change. But um, look, growing up in South Africa, I was very fortunate to go to some wonderful schools and experience wonderful things. Um, in fact, one of the highlights in my journey in in education, but just in life, was was when I went to university. And uh the university that I went to was uh under the apartheid law, was a former black university. And uh, and so actually I was the one that that stood out within that community, and uh, and I got to experience firsthand what that felt like. But um, man, what a wonderful experience and friends to this day who I have from that uh university, had the privilege to represent that university, play sport for the university, and uh just make some lifelong friends there. But um, that for me, you know, a real passion of mine, as I'm sure we'll get to speak about, is seeing how we can get people to work together um around a common goal or common objective. And uh it always bothered me growing up that we were so segregated based on race, um, ideology. And uh, and so when I had the opportunity to go to the university that I did, uh I felt like I got a PhD in in life and and uh and and what it truly means to to work together and be aligned, um that that I just would never be able to get anywhere else. So I'm grateful for that experience as well as all the other experiences that I that I had growing up. And uh yeah, I find myself here in the Middle East today, a boy from Cape Town, um, but uh but yeah, in a very fortunate position and grateful for all the opportunities.

SPEAKER_01 5:29

Yeah. And so education for you. So so you did sports, but how did you end up in this field? Like, how did you end up in education?

From Nonprofit Work To Education

SPEAKER_02 5:38

Yeah, so it was an interesting journey because I, you know, although I did a qualification or a degree, a bachelor's degree in physical education, I never went straight into that. I I worked in non the nonprofit world in South Africa, in sports nonprofit actually, um, for many years. And then it was only when the global recession or financial crisis uh happened in about uh yeah, 08-09, um, the organization I was working with um uh essentially closed in South Africa and uh and I was forced to fall back on my education. Uh, and so then I got a position as a PE teacher and athletic director in a school, and that really got me on the path towards education. Now I'd always I'd always liked education, but I didn't think I'd go into a career in education and become a teacher or definitely not a principal. Um, and so I I feel like that was a real course correction for me. And and since then, we've just been so fortunate with the opportunities that we've had as a family to be able to travel internationally, uh, work in schools internationally and just grow and develop. And uh it really is a passion of mine, education, uh, leadership as well.

SPEAKER_01 6:51

And so your career has taken you across different continents. What made you want to leave South Africa and try to teach overseas in the first place?

Choosing International Teaching

SPEAKER_02 7:04

Well, you know, I think we'd we'd always heard about the opportunities that are there internationally. Um, and I think my wife and I, we were in a stage in our lives where we were ready or looking for just a bit of an adventure. She's a teacher as well. Um, and so our approach was maybe not a conventional one, in that we we uh wanted to teach and we thought about Asia as well, just hearing about some of the lifestyle opportunities there and the experiences one could could have. So we just sent out CVs uh to just about every school in every country from China, to Singapore, Malaysia, Indonesia, I mean, you name it. We weren't quite specific. We just knew we wanted this experience, and we'd heard from a few people who'd done something similar. And uh and then we we got a response back. In fact, my wife did, got a response back uh from a school in Singapore. Um, and it was she's actually a speech therapist, and so we we initially she got the job, and and I didn't have the position. So, so we went over based on her contract, and then when I was there, I was very fortunate to connect with a few schools and and get a great position as a PE teacher. And uh so Singapore was home for us for 11 years, and um we were we we loved it, we still do love it. It's a beautiful city and a wonderful place, incredible people. And uh yeah, so we were I was a PE teacher for three years there, and um, and then made the move from one school to another school uh where I was a grade three classroom teacher and then had the opportunity to move into administration as an assistant principal. Um, so uh yeah, it was it was great. And then I I don't think we were looking to leave Singapore. I mean, we're very happy there, but I had a tremendous opportunity um come about uh here in Dubai, and uh it really was just uh too good to turn down Dubai American Academy to come and be the elementary principal here, and um of course went through a rigorous interview process. Um, but it just it just felt so right, and and so I'm glad we did that. And we've been here for four years now, and uh after two years as elementary principal, I had the opportunity to move to the deputy superintendent position, which uh I'm in now. And so yeah, I've just uh I've been so fortunate with the opportunities I've been given to be able to move into different leadership roles, continue to grow and learn and and learn every day, trust me. I I learn every day. Um, but yeah, so that was my journey. But um we love the Middle East and and we love being here in Dubai. That there's so many incredible opportunities here, uh particularly in education. You know, I I find it's such a fast-paced, ambitious society, and uh, and within education specifically, there they are incredible opportunities here. But but equally we we love Asia and Southeast Asia in particular, and who knows, maybe one day we'll return there or back to South Africa. That's a question we always ask ourselves, right?

SPEAKER_01 10:08

Yeah, but Dubai has a way of holding you. Um, and so you end up thinking, oh, but I'll miss this and I'll miss that. But Singapore, what do you miss about Singapore?

Singapore Years And Growth

SPEAKER_02 10:20

Yeah, you you're right. Dubai, Dubai has such. I think, you know, Dubai and Singapore are so similar in that they are exceptionally forward-thinking nations that prioritize education. Um, you know, it's safe, it's clean, everything works. You know, it's easy to live in these cities, right? It's it really is. Um, what I miss about Singapore for sure is the greenery and the thunderstorms. And uh although you know there aren't really seasons within Singapore, it tends to be fairly hot and humid the whole year, there are there there are thunderstorms and there's greenery, and there's an element of a rainforest there, which is very uh appealing and enjoyable. I I do miss that. Although I have come to learn and enjoy some of the nature elements here in Dubai, particularly out towards the mountains um and for Gericide or up towards Russell Kimmer. So so there is absolute beauty in nature, it's just different. Um, but yeah, look, the I I wouldn't say, yeah, what else don't I say about? I think generally that the culture that you find within Asia is very unique. There's some something very special about that. It's a highly respectful culture, and um and I and I think they the way they hold their educators and the way they hold education is incredibly in incredibly high regard. Um, and so yeah, working within that context is uh was really a blessing, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:46

Yeah. So if you were to if you were to No, I'm no that's not fair, Lisa. I was gonna say if you were to pick a winner, but I'm like, no, that's not fair. That is not a fair question. I wouldn't be the first one.

SPEAKER_02 12:00

If you're not the first person to ask me that, you wouldn't be the first person to ask me. And my answer is probably like the Switzerland answer where I sit on the fence, because I do think there's pros and cons in both, right? And uh, and and there's some things that are bad in Singapore, other things that are bad in Dubai. I mean, I just feel privileged to be able to sit in between both of those, right?

SPEAKER_01 12:19

So Yeah, it's not it's not a fair question. I as soon as it pops into my head, I go, no, no, no, do not ask that. That is not a fair question. But DAA, four years there, two years as elementary principal, now as the deputy superintendent, tell me about DAA. What makes it special? What makes it tick?

SPEAKER_02 12:39

Well, it is a it's a wonderful school. Um look, we're a large school, just over 3,700 students, K to 12, about 500 faculty and staff. Um, obviously a gems education flagship school. So, look, there's there's many great attributes of our school. Uh to be fair, if you ask any school leader, well, I'd say most school leaders, what's the best thing about their school? I would hope they'd say the people inside of it. Um, and so that will be my answer as well. It really is the people inside. It's the students, it's our faculty and staff, and it's our families. We're not a perfect school by any means. You know, we do our very best. I think we have very high standards and expectations, and I think generally we do things very well. But uh, but there are things we learn and and there are things we get wrong, and and I think we are humble enough to admit that and then make those changes when we need to. Um, yeah, so so that's that's what I really enjoy about this this place. Um, getting to interact with our students and our families and our staff every day, that makes me come alive uh as a superintendent. I I want to connect with people. That's that fills my bucket. And and so just having that opportunity, regardless of what classroom it is, but being able to get into the classrooms, connect, see the learning that's happening, uh, and more importantly, see the impact we're having on kids, on on our families. You know, that's that's why we go into this profession. Um, and so yeah, I'd I'd say it's definitely the people, but uh we are very fortunate with the facility we have, with the resources we have. So we're in a we're in a great place. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:16

So I'm gonna I'm gonna pretend like I'm interviewing you now for a job that I do not have. I have no superintendent jobs to offer you. However, as a leader, what are your strengths?

Moving To Dubai American Academy

SPEAKER_02 14:27

Well, I uh you'd probably have to ask the people who work with me to get an honest assessment, but what I believe my strengths are, it's definitely my ability to connect with people, you know, and and um I believe it's my strength, but but I think it's I know it's also my passion, and that is to develop organizational culture, a culture that is positive, that is student-focused and student-centered, um, and really a culture that is drawing people in to be part of something bigger than them, right? You know, in in the world today, we are so often forced to work within silos, and and we have to be intentional, even more so every day now, to collaborate and be intentional to connect. Um, and I think that's something that I really enjoy doing. And and so to be able to be intentional to focus on how do we build a great culture that people want to be a part of, um, and and and kind of like a flywheel, right? Get that momentum going. Um, that's something that I believe is a strength of mine. Um, I I I would hope that I communicate very well, uh, and I think that's a critical skill as a leader. Two things really, yeah, I think are the absolute foundations for leadership. That is your ability to communicate and your level of organization. If you can be highly organized and communicate really well, that that's uh a large part of the job, right, that you're required to do. Um, but look, I'm I I come alive when I'm around people, um, students, teachers, families. That's when I'm in my in my uh wheelhouse. And uh and so I enjoy that. And uh I definitely think I bring that to the team here.

SPEAKER_01 16:02

Yeah. I was gonna say, what are your weaknesses? But I'm like, don't be naughty, Lisa.

SPEAKER_02 16:06

Yeah, no, it wasn't a long time for that.

SPEAKER_01 16:09

No, but on a reel though, you talked about developing culture, which is so important when you talk about schools, because schools are about people. How are you doing that? Give give my listeners some some tips and tidbits because I think that everybody wants to live and thrive in a culture that supports them.

What Makes DAA Special

SPEAKER_02 16:30

Yeah, okay. It's you know, I I actually wrote a book about it, right? It's um I I wrote a book called The Power of Rapport, and um, it's it's really uh a passion project of mine, to be quite honest. But it speaks about um the role rapport has in every area of life. And so it's not actually only for educators. I wrote the book intentionally for every sect of society, because, in my view, those people who have the ability to connect with other people are way more successful in life than those that aren't. And I'm not just meaning financial success, I mean it's just success in achieving anything. So, within this book, I actually speak about what you can do to develop a rapport or connection with someone or ultimately organizational culture. And uh it's actually written as a kind of a practical guide. So it speaks about uh how we communicate, um, looking at things like our nonverbal communication, how are we carrying ourselves, uh, what is our face saying when we're in a conversation, right? Um speaks about intentionality. Well, what are we doing to be intentional to build this culture? Because every organization has a culture, but unless we're intentional to build it, it'll build itself, right? And it might build in the wrong direction that you want. So for me, it comes down to the small things. Organizational culture is defined by daily interactions. So let's have a look at how our people are interacting with each other every day. We know through Brene Brown and many other authors and people way more qualified than me that humans are wide for connection. We've heard that many times. So, my job as an organizational leader is not to force people to connect. All I need to do is create the platform for them to connect. And people will naturally connect with each other and build those connections. But I have to make sure they have the time and the opportunity to do that. So I think it's about looking at something even as practical as how we meet together as a school. When we meet, how often do we just clear the decks and have people just time to connect with each other? And that's a fight, right? In in the busy schools that we we lead these days. Um, so it's about intentionality. Um it's like, you know, if you think about a sieve, right? If you're pouring sand into that sieve, it's just gonna all leak through, right? Um, and so so that's kind of like culture, right? It leaks, right? And so we can't just rely on the Christmas party once a year and then tick the box and think, okay, great, everyone's loving each other now and they've built a great culture. No, it's the small little things every single day that just keep that uh the sort of the tank full. And um, and so it's how we how present we are as leaders, how we greet each other in the morning, how many people smile in the organization? That's a that's a metric I always look at, right? Um, how many of our people are connecting with each other? How many of our people are connecting with each other outside of school with us us forcing them to do that? All of those things for me tell me we're either on the right track or we're not.

SPEAKER_01 19:38

I gotta ask you something. You talked about the small things. What are some small things you guys are doing there to build rapport that you think could be of benefit to others?

Leadership Strengths And Culture

SPEAKER_02 19:50

So I I think giving people uh a level of autonomy or agency within their school day, uh, I think is important. Um so looking at, as I mentioned before, how we meet, how often we meet, how often are we expecting staff to stay late and do uh things after hours, um, right down to expectations for answering emails um or responding after work hours, which we do not expect people to do, and being actually quite specific and intentional to communicate that because uh otherwise people have uh an assumed expectation that this is what they have to do. But unless we're explicit to tell them, I do not want you checking your email after whatever time at night, and then that gives them license to take a breath. So um it's trying to build in balance um and and and and just let people know that they aren't their job, right? They have a life, their job is very important to them, and and in nowadays it does form aspects of our identity, but your life is so much more than that, and it's important that you prioritize those other things. So, so you are small things, it's looking at our timing, looking at our scheduling, looking at when we meet, when we call people together, um, what we're doing after hours for people. Uh if I have to take responsibility, how often am I getting around the school, connecting with people? How visible am I? Uh, how do I respond when staff come to me with real challenges, whether that's an HR challenge, whether it's a uh whatever challenge, you know, a student challenge, how quickly am I responding to that to take that pressure off them and put it on me really to help solve? Um, so so those are some small things that I that I we look at as a leadership team. Um, you know, a lot about culture comes down to how available we are for our people as well. Um, and if people generally feel that we have their backs, and I do believe we have that here at DAA, uh, people do feel supported. And and look, you you can ask them, right? Not don't take it from me. But the feedback I receive from our staff is that they feel heard and they feel supported and uh Yeah, and I think that's those are those things are big steps towards building a positive culture.

SPEAKER_01 22:05

Indeed. You said how available you as the leadership are to the staff. But how available are you to yourself? What are you doing to take care of you, Mike?

SPEAKER_02 22:17

That's a great question. And I really appreciate you asking it because I I think among school leaders, that is something that we we don't do well. Right. We we assume a lot of the pressure and take on that pressure because we care for our people, but sometimes to our own detriment. So I I I have two young kids, and so I'm forced to forget about work every evening when I play cricket in the garden or football in the garden. Um, and that's always a wonderful break for me. Um I make sure you know that I that I enjoy training and and exercise and participating in a few little competitions and things every now and then. And I I make sure I I do that with a group of my friends who are not in education, uh, which is is really nice and refreshing. So yeah, it's about that. It's about making time for family and prioritizing family time and and getting away. You know, Dubai and the UAE are so many great opportunities to just get away for a night or away for a weekend and do something fairly inexpensive. Um, and that's just different and changes things up a bit. So I make an effort to do that. Um, and and look, we I think we we learn as we go, right? Yeah, some days, okay, we we're pushing a little bit too much and and we can pull things back a little bit. And I think as long as we're willing to reflect constantly on that, then then we'll do well. And as long as we can also be humble to put our hands up to say, you know what, I'm I'm needing some help now because I'm I'm just feeling overwhelmed, then then I think we we do well. But if our egos get in the way and we think it's all about us, then then it often doesn't end well.

SPEAKER_01 23:59

Yeah, I like that. How old are your kids?

SPEAKER_02 24:03

Eight and ten.

Practical Ways To Build Rapport

SPEAKER_01 24:04

Oh, they're really young. Oh wow. And and and they're enjoying Dubai, but well, I I would Dubai is great for kids, but how are they enjoying it?

SPEAKER_02 24:14

It is, it's wonderful for kids. They they're loving it, you know, from the first day, and and they come to DA as well. So they they absolutely love it. Um and the opportunities they've had, you know, the experiences they've had, it's it's just been amazing. So so yeah, they they're very happy, they enjoy it. Um, yeah. So and that helps, right? Because if they weren't happy or they weren't settled, you you know, as a parent, you would naturally question your decisions, right? Because right now it's not really about our what we want, it's really about them and the school that we want them to be part of. Um, but yeah, thankfully it's all going well and they're enjoying it.

SPEAKER_01 24:50

Yeah. So we're coming to the tail end of the podcast, and I know you said you write, and you you also are big on culture, but I want you to look a little bit broader out on education and where we are right now. What are you excited about in the field? So I want you to think wide and not just your score.

Boundaries, Balance, And Staff Care

SPEAKER_02 25:14

So Lisa, I think you know, if we think about education, you know, and it's it's not anything new, we all talk about this often, how education is typically uh very slow or laggard when it comes to innovation, right? And and we've been doing really a fairly similar approach to education for the last hundred years. You know, that doesn't really evolve, although there's been pockets of innovation. So, what excites me is with the evolution of AI, um I I I think we are gonna come to a crisis point within education, but I think this is gonna result in something quite beautiful, um, where we truly can innovate to meet the needs of our students. Um, you know, we are still educating our kids through a very industrial age era um approach. And and the world's moved beyond that. Uh, but sadly, most schools haven't. Now, I get all the logistics around it, right? And I know that it's not easy as just flicking a switch. But I think we're gonna be within education, we're gonna be confronted with some real realities with what AI will be able to present for us and open up for us that we could harness to truly change what school can look like. Um, that we can meet the needs of each individual student and each individual family in a way that we can't even comprehend right now. So I believe in the next few years that's coming and uh there's gonna be a real shakeup in education. I I don't think it's gonna be, you know, it's not like gonna be completely different, like something we've never ever experienced. I think with within the structure, there's gonna be change, right? Um, and so that excites me. And I think schools that have an appetite for that, who are excited about that possibility, um, will do very well. Um, and and why will we do well? Because we'll be able to give our kids what they need. Um, if we're hesitant or resistant to that change, we'll just continue doing what we've always been done, always have done, right? So that's that I think is what excites me. You know, I I think more than anything, our humanity is gonna be even more um relevant in the future that that we see. Because there will be things. Now, I I'm not in the camp that says AI is gonna replace teachers, but I I do believe there'll be a lot within education which AI can replace and can actually do better. But it cannot, at least at this stage, and hopefully never, but it cannot replace the humanity aspect. And that is the is that's the greatest thing we bring to the classroom. That connection piece with the students, with the families, that encouragement, that inspiration that a teacher can bring. Uh and so I I think that is going to become even more of a focus for us, as I think it should be, while of course we just utilize the incredible tools that are out there within AI. So that excites me. I am absolutely not an expert on AI by any means, um, but it is a field that I'm I'm obviously learning a lot about and I'm very interested in learning about uh and seeing how it impacts education. Um, and and I'll be the first one at the table to learn and and listen and see how we can really evolve schools and make them better for our kids.

SPEAKER_01 28:32

Brilliant. I I'm I'm equally excited about that as well. Um, I'm intrigued. I don't even know if I'm excited as much as I am intrigued. I'm very, very curious to see where this all goes because I think we are indeed heading to an inflection point, and I would love to see what direction we take. We are quite good in education at digging our heels in. So let's see what happens.

SPEAKER_02 28:59

But Mike doing it for 200 years, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:02

See what I mean? So I don't know, but I do know that something will shift, and I'm really looking forward to seeing what that will be. Yeah, thank you for being on the podcast, Mike.

SPEAKER_02 29:14

It's an absolute pleasure. I've really enjoyed it. Thanks, Lisa, and thanks for all the incredible work you're doing. You are a real voice within education, and uh and I love seeing all your posts and just how encouraging you are for everyone in the field. So thank you.

SPEAKER_01 29:27

Thank you so much.