{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Kerry Seed","startTime":63.279,"endTime":65.709,"body":"Thanks for tuning"},{"speaker":"Kerry Seed","startTime":63.279,"endTime":65.709,"body":"in. This week, we're wrapping up"},{"speaker":"Kerry Seed","startTime":65.709,"endTime":68.049,"body":"our series on conflict"},{"speaker":"Kerry Seed","startTime":65.709,"endTime":68.049,"body":"management with our guests"},{"speaker":"Kerry Seed","startTime":68.049,"endTime":71.289,"body":"George coal reserves. He has"},{"speaker":"Kerry Seed","startTime":68.049,"endTime":71.289,"body":"quite a resume. He's a"},{"speaker":"Kerry Seed","startTime":71.289,"endTime":75.129,"body":"psychologist, a hostage"},{"speaker":"Kerry Seed","startTime":71.289,"endTime":75.129,"body":"negotiator and an international"},{"speaker":"Kerry Seed","startTime":75.129,"endTime":78.759,"body":"best selling author. He's also a"},{"speaker":"Kerry Seed","startTime":75.129,"endTime":78.759,"body":"distinguished professor of"},{"speaker":"Kerry Seed","startTime":78.759,"endTime":82.38900000000001,"body":"leadership and organizational"},{"speaker":"Kerry Seed","startTime":78.759,"endTime":82.38900000000001,"body":"behavior at IMD business school"},{"speaker":"Kerry Seed","startTime":82.41900000000001,"endTime":85.749,"body":"in Switzerland, and a consultant"},{"speaker":"Kerry Seed","startTime":82.41900000000001,"endTime":85.749,"body":"to companies around the world."},{"speaker":"Kerry Seed","startTime":86.769,"endTime":89.589,"body":"On top of all that, he's an"},{"speaker":"Kerry Seed","startTime":86.769,"endTime":89.589,"body":"incredible storyteller. I really"},{"speaker":"Kerry Seed","startTime":89.589,"endTime":93.369,"body":"think you'll enjoy this one. We"},{"speaker":"Kerry Seed","startTime":89.589,"endTime":93.369,"body":"begin each show with the voice"},{"speaker":"Kerry Seed","startTime":93.369,"endTime":96.66900000000001,"body":"of a young person to remind us"},{"speaker":"Kerry Seed","startTime":93.369,"endTime":96.66900000000001,"body":"of how we all started out. And"},{"speaker":"Kerry Seed","startTime":96.66900000000001,"endTime":100.32900000000001,"body":"this week, our friends, Rene and"},{"speaker":"Kerry Seed","startTime":96.66900000000001,"endTime":100.32900000000001,"body":"Vera talk about conflict and how"},{"speaker":"Kerry Seed","startTime":100.32900000000001,"endTime":111.219,"body":"it feels. Tell me about a time"},{"speaker":"Kerry Seed","startTime":100.32900000000001,"endTime":111.219,"body":"you were mad."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":113.29,"endTime":116.62,"body":"When Reagan were"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":113.29,"endTime":116.62,"body":"fighting, like what made you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":116.62,"endTime":121.15,"body":"mad? I don't know. It's like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":116.62,"endTime":121.15,"body":"kinda, he's being a little bit"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":121.15,"endTime":129.67000000000002,"body":"annoying. Okay, and what does"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":121.15,"endTime":129.67000000000002,"body":"anger feel like? It's feels kind"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":129.70000000000002,"endTime":136.84,"body":"of I feel bad all the time. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":129.70000000000002,"endTime":136.84,"body":"I just get angry. And it feels"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":136.84,"endTime":143.59,"body":"bad to agree. Who do you go to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":136.84,"endTime":143.59,"body":"when you feel upset? God, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":143.68,"endTime":144.55,"body":"you would get?"},{"speaker":"Elizabeth Solomon","startTime":145.57,"endTime":148.6,"body":"And how does?"},{"speaker":"Elizabeth Solomon","startTime":145.57,"endTime":148.6,"body":"How did those people help you?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":149.56,"endTime":157.81,"body":"They helped me good."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":149.56,"endTime":157.81,"body":"They're nice. And I liked it."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":158.02,"endTime":164.11,"body":"God watches over me. And I don't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":158.02,"endTime":164.11,"body":"know why we're keep be dragging"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":164.29,"endTime":169.21,"body":"on Friday, get the center God."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":164.29,"endTime":169.21,"body":"And I don't like Sunita God, or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":169.21,"endTime":169.93,"body":"disobey."},{"speaker":"Kerry Seed","startTime":171.19,"endTime":173.83,"body":"Thank you, Renee and"},{"speaker":"Kerry Seed","startTime":171.19,"endTime":173.83,"body":"Vera. And now on with the show."},{"speaker":"Hanuman Goleman","startTime":183.61,"endTime":185.53,"body":"Welcome to"},{"speaker":"Hanuman Goleman","startTime":183.61,"endTime":185.53,"body":"first person plural, the"},{"speaker":"Hanuman Goleman","startTime":185.53,"endTime":188.89000000000001,"body":"motional intelligence and"},{"speaker":"Hanuman Goleman","startTime":185.53,"endTime":188.89000000000001,"body":"beyond. I'm hanuman Goleman."},{"speaker":"Elizabeth Solomon","startTime":189.07000000000002,"endTime":190.36,"body":"I'm Elizabeth"},{"speaker":"Elizabeth Solomon","startTime":189.07000000000002,"endTime":190.36,"body":"Solomon."},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":190.63000000000002,"endTime":191.98000000000002,"body":"And I'm Daniel"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":190.63000000000002,"endTime":191.98000000000002,"body":"Goleman."},{"speaker":"Elizabeth Solomon","startTime":192.49,"endTime":193.9,"body":"We've been"},{"speaker":"Elizabeth Solomon","startTime":192.49,"endTime":193.9,"body":"talking about conflict"},{"speaker":"Elizabeth Solomon","startTime":193.9,"endTime":197.92000000000002,"body":"management as we see it in"},{"speaker":"Elizabeth Solomon","startTime":193.9,"endTime":197.92000000000002,"body":"systems and in our own lives."},{"speaker":"Hanuman Goleman","startTime":197.95000000000002,"endTime":199.69,"body":"And today,"},{"speaker":"Hanuman Goleman","startTime":197.95000000000002,"endTime":199.69,"body":"we're going to delve into the"},{"speaker":"Hanuman Goleman","startTime":199.69,"endTime":203.5,"body":"Theory of Conflict Management"},{"speaker":"Hanuman Goleman","startTime":199.69,"endTime":203.5,"body":"with our guest, George Cole"},{"speaker":"Hanuman Goleman","startTime":203.5,"endTime":207.25,"body":"Rieser. George was a hostage"},{"speaker":"Hanuman Goleman","startTime":203.5,"endTime":207.25,"body":"negotiator with the Dayton"},{"speaker":"Hanuman Goleman","startTime":207.25,"endTime":210.85000000000002,"body":"Police Department. Before we"},{"speaker":"Hanuman Goleman","startTime":207.25,"endTime":210.85000000000002,"body":"start, I want you to know that"},{"speaker":"Hanuman Goleman","startTime":210.85000000000002,"endTime":214.39000000000001,"body":"some of his stories include"},{"speaker":"Hanuman Goleman","startTime":210.85000000000002,"endTime":214.39000000000001,"body":"graphic depictions of people in"},{"speaker":"Hanuman Goleman","startTime":214.39000000000001,"endTime":218.35000000000002,"body":"crisis, this content might be"},{"speaker":"Hanuman Goleman","startTime":214.39000000000001,"endTime":218.35000000000002,"body":"disturbing for some of you. So I"},{"speaker":"Hanuman Goleman","startTime":218.35000000000002,"endTime":221.17000000000002,"body":"encourage you to prepare"},{"speaker":"Hanuman Goleman","startTime":218.35000000000002,"endTime":221.17000000000002,"body":"yourself emotionally beforehand."},{"speaker":"Hanuman Goleman","startTime":221.59,"endTime":224.83,"body":"Or if you think it might be too"},{"speaker":"Hanuman Goleman","startTime":221.59,"endTime":224.83,"body":"much, skip this one. And join us"},{"speaker":"Hanuman Goleman","startTime":224.83,"endTime":225.43,"body":"next time."},{"speaker":"Elizabeth Solomon","startTime":225.64000000000001,"endTime":228.10000000000002,"body":"As you're"},{"speaker":"Elizabeth Solomon","startTime":225.64000000000001,"endTime":228.10000000000002,"body":"probably gathering. George has a"},{"speaker":"Elizabeth Solomon","startTime":228.10000000000002,"endTime":233.95000000000002,"body":"lot of wild stories. But I was"},{"speaker":"Elizabeth Solomon","startTime":228.10000000000002,"endTime":233.95000000000002,"body":"really charmed by this one."},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":234.4,"endTime":238.45000000000002,"body":"I traveled to"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":234.4,"endTime":238.45000000000002,"body":"Italy in the early 80s doing"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":238.45000000000002,"endTime":242.35000000000002,"body":"workshops, and I went down to"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":238.45000000000002,"endTime":242.35000000000002,"body":"the fish market early in the"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":242.35000000000002,"endTime":245.23000000000002,"body":"morning. And here were all their"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":242.35000000000002,"endTime":245.23000000000002,"body":"fishermen coming in with their"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":245.23000000000002,"endTime":248.86,"body":"catch. And they were cleaning"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":245.23000000000002,"endTime":248.86,"body":"those fish and it was a bloody"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":248.86,"endTime":252.55,"body":"smelly mess. But they were"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":248.86,"endTime":252.55,"body":"laughing. They enjoyed it. They"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":252.55,"endTime":257.17,"body":"also had a good glass of wine,"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":252.55,"endTime":257.17,"body":"aprons with your name what was"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":257.17,"endTime":260.11,"body":"around and I was just watching"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":257.17,"endTime":260.11,"body":"this. And they were looking at"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":260.11,"endTime":262.6,"body":"me. And I thought this was"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":260.11,"endTime":262.6,"body":"interesting. So I went down the"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":262.6,"endTime":267.21999999999997,"body":"next day. And lo and behold,"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":262.6,"endTime":267.21999999999997,"body":"they invited me to come in there"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":267.21999999999997,"endTime":271.6,"body":"I was with a glass of wine, a"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":267.21999999999997,"endTime":271.6,"body":"knife cleaning these fish, just"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":271.6,"endTime":275.59,"body":"loving it. And it was a bloody,"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":271.6,"endTime":275.59,"body":"smelly mess. Now I grew up on a"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":275.59,"endTime":278.38,"body":"farm so I knew what it is to"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":275.59,"endTime":278.38,"body":"clean a fish. But I never"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":278.38,"endTime":281.59,"body":"particularly enjoyed it till"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":278.38,"endTime":281.59,"body":"that point. And I thought, This"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":281.59,"endTime":286.27,"body":"is what conflict management is"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":281.59,"endTime":286.27,"body":"put the fish on the table, go"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":286.27,"endTime":289.18,"body":"through the bloody, smelly mess"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":286.27,"endTime":289.18,"body":"of cleaning it for the grade"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":289.18,"endTime":292.99,"body":"fish dinner at the end of the"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":289.18,"endTime":292.99,"body":"day. And how many teams how many"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":292.99,"endTime":297.73,"body":"leaders keep fish under the"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":292.99,"endTime":297.73,"body":"table the conflicts and it"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":297.73,"endTime":298.75,"body":"becomes toxic."},{"speaker":"Elizabeth Solomon","startTime":299.079,"endTime":301.659,"body":"I think that"},{"speaker":"Elizabeth Solomon","startTime":299.079,"endTime":301.659,"body":"simple story really gets at the"},{"speaker":"Elizabeth Solomon","startTime":301.659,"endTime":303.489,"body":"heart of conflict management."},{"speaker":"Hanuman Goleman","startTime":303.969,"endTime":306.399,"body":"And you really"},{"speaker":"Hanuman Goleman","startTime":303.969,"endTime":306.399,"body":"go into the Theory of Conflict"},{"speaker":"Hanuman Goleman","startTime":306.399,"endTime":309.849,"body":"Management in this interview,"},{"speaker":"Hanuman Goleman","startTime":306.399,"endTime":309.849,"body":"what are some key points we"},{"speaker":"Hanuman Goleman","startTime":309.849,"endTime":310.719,"body":"should listen for?"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":311.169,"endTime":314.25899999999996,"body":"I think George"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":311.169,"endTime":314.25899999999996,"body":"is a master of conflict"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":314.25899999999996,"endTime":318.399,"body":"management. And one of the"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":314.25899999999996,"endTime":318.399,"body":"things that he's especially good"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":318.399,"endTime":324.18899999999996,"body":"at is making that connection to"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":318.399,"endTime":324.18899999999996,"body":"the other person which is over"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":324.18899999999996,"endTime":327.459,"body":"and above the particular"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":324.18899999999996,"endTime":327.459,"body":"conflict. But that's the"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":327.459,"endTime":331.179,"body":"platform that lets him start to"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":327.459,"endTime":331.179,"body":"repair things."},{"speaker":"Elizabeth Solomon","startTime":331.47999999999996,"endTime":334.06,"body":"I think"},{"speaker":"Elizabeth Solomon","startTime":331.47999999999996,"endTime":334.06,"body":"curiosity is at perhaps like the"},{"speaker":"Elizabeth Solomon","startTime":334.06,"endTime":337.57,"body":"greatest source of conflict"},{"speaker":"Elizabeth Solomon","startTime":334.06,"endTime":337.57,"body":"prevention or antidote to"},{"speaker":"Elizabeth Solomon","startTime":337.57,"endTime":340.78,"body":"conflict, the greatest strategy"},{"speaker":"Elizabeth Solomon","startTime":337.57,"endTime":340.78,"body":"and such a you know, we can"},{"speaker":"Elizabeth Solomon","startTime":340.78,"endTime":344.83,"body":"cultivate curiosity about kind"},{"speaker":"Elizabeth Solomon","startTime":340.78,"endTime":344.83,"body":"of the other side or the other"},{"speaker":"Elizabeth Solomon","startTime":344.83,"endTime":347.68,"body":"person we can do that from the"},{"speaker":"Elizabeth Solomon","startTime":344.83,"endTime":347.68,"body":"point that's early on. We can"},{"speaker":"Elizabeth Solomon","startTime":347.68,"endTime":349.71999999999997,"body":"also keep conflict from"},{"speaker":"Elizabeth Solomon","startTime":347.68,"endTime":349.71999999999997,"body":"escalating"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":349.87,"endTime":353.68,"body":"or think empathy"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":349.87,"endTime":353.68,"body":"is really key here. George, as I"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":353.68,"endTime":357.13,"body":"said, as a master of finding"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":353.68,"endTime":357.13,"body":"that connection, he is a"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":357.13,"endTime":360.60999999999996,"body":"beautiful empathizer. And of"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":357.13,"endTime":360.60999999999996,"body":"course, there are three kinds of"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":360.60999999999996,"endTime":363.58,"body":"empathy. There's cognitive"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":360.60999999999996,"endTime":363.58,"body":"empathy, I know how you think"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":363.58,"endTime":366.4,"body":"about it. There's emotional"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":363.58,"endTime":366.4,"body":"empathy. I know how you're"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":366.4,"endTime":370.15,"body":"feeling. But there's a third"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":366.4,"endTime":370.15,"body":"time, which was really important"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":370.15,"endTime":375.15999999999997,"body":"here, which is I care about you,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":370.15,"endTime":375.15999999999997,"body":"I'm concerned about you. And"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":375.15999999999997,"endTime":378.37,"body":"it's that kind of empathy that"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":375.15999999999997,"endTime":378.37,"body":"creates with George calls,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":378.52,"endTime":383.14,"body":"actually, from Bowlby via Dr."},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":378.52,"endTime":383.14,"body":"Bennett, Goldman's book,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":383.2,"endTime":387.58,"body":"emotional alchemy and mindless"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":383.2,"endTime":387.58,"body":"spring, which George credits"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":387.58,"endTime":393.64,"body":"actually talks about a secure"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":387.58,"endTime":393.64,"body":"base sense of being able to"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":393.64,"endTime":397.81,"body":"relax with the person that I"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":393.64,"endTime":397.81,"body":"feel safe here. And how"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":397.81,"endTime":402.88,"body":"important that is. And George"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":397.81,"endTime":402.88,"body":"and his work with leaders, for"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":402.88,"endTime":406.84,"body":"example, really encourages"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":402.88,"endTime":406.84,"body":"something explicitly credit star"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":406.84,"endTime":412.39,"body":"for which is the inner secure"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":406.84,"endTime":412.39,"body":"base, not only being with people"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":412.41999999999996,"endTime":415.0,"body":"who make you feel that way, but"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":412.41999999999996,"endTime":415.0,"body":"being able to create it inside"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":415.0,"endTime":421.96,"body":"yourself. And this secure base"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":415.0,"endTime":421.96,"body":"is a deeper kind of platform for"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":421.96,"endTime":422.53,"body":"connecting."},{"speaker":"Elizabeth Solomon","startTime":423.13,"endTime":425.26,"body":"I love this"},{"speaker":"Elizabeth Solomon","startTime":423.13,"endTime":425.26,"body":"piece around empathic concern,"},{"speaker":"Elizabeth Solomon","startTime":425.26,"endTime":428.68,"body":"because it really ties back into"},{"speaker":"Elizabeth Solomon","startTime":425.26,"endTime":428.68,"body":"this piece around shared values,"},{"speaker":"Elizabeth Solomon","startTime":428.68,"endTime":432.01,"body":"right. And I think when we're"},{"speaker":"Elizabeth Solomon","startTime":428.68,"endTime":432.01,"body":"coming at someone with a sense"},{"speaker":"Elizabeth Solomon","startTime":432.01,"endTime":435.03999999999996,"body":"of empathic concern, and saying,"},{"speaker":"Elizabeth Solomon","startTime":432.01,"endTime":435.03999999999996,"body":"like, I really want you to sort"},{"speaker":"Elizabeth Solomon","startTime":435.03999999999996,"endTime":439.33,"body":"of have what you want and need,"},{"speaker":"Elizabeth Solomon","startTime":435.03999999999996,"endTime":439.33,"body":"and I also want myself to have"},{"speaker":"Elizabeth Solomon","startTime":439.33,"endTime":442.39,"body":"what I want and need in this."},{"speaker":"Elizabeth Solomon","startTime":439.33,"endTime":442.39,"body":"And I care for both of us in"},{"speaker":"Elizabeth Solomon","startTime":442.39,"endTime":445.9,"body":"this situation. And so how do we"},{"speaker":"Elizabeth Solomon","startTime":442.39,"endTime":445.9,"body":"find those kinds of those things"},{"speaker":"Elizabeth Solomon","startTime":445.9,"endTime":449.68,"body":"that are mutually beneficial"},{"speaker":"Elizabeth Solomon","startTime":445.9,"endTime":449.68,"body":"within the conflict or within"},{"speaker":"Elizabeth Solomon","startTime":449.68,"endTime":450.66999999999996,"body":"the conversation?"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":451.29999999999995,"endTime":454.27,"body":"us when you say"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":451.29999999999995,"endTime":454.27,"body":"curiosity, I'm hearing empathy,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":454.27,"endTime":457.03,"body":"really caring to understand the"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":454.27,"endTime":457.03,"body":"other person?"},{"speaker":"Elizabeth Solomon","startTime":457.27,"endTime":459.01,"body":"Yeah. And"},{"speaker":"Elizabeth Solomon","startTime":457.27,"endTime":459.01,"body":"also curious, you know, I think"},{"speaker":"Elizabeth Solomon","startTime":459.01,"endTime":462.46,"body":"some of conflict is us, perhaps"},{"speaker":"Elizabeth Solomon","startTime":459.01,"endTime":462.46,"body":"subconsciously narrowly thinking"},{"speaker":"Elizabeth Solomon","startTime":462.46,"endTime":465.25,"body":"there's only one way forward,"},{"speaker":"Elizabeth Solomon","startTime":462.46,"endTime":465.25,"body":"right? We're like, this is the"},{"speaker":"Elizabeth Solomon","startTime":465.25,"endTime":469.21,"body":"way this is the thing. And I"},{"speaker":"Elizabeth Solomon","startTime":465.25,"endTime":469.21,"body":"think curiosity is both about"},{"speaker":"Elizabeth Solomon","startTime":469.21,"endTime":471.64,"body":"wanting to understand another"},{"speaker":"Elizabeth Solomon","startTime":469.21,"endTime":471.64,"body":"person, but also about saying,"},{"speaker":"Elizabeth Solomon","startTime":471.64,"endTime":474.54999999999995,"body":"what other ways forward could"},{"speaker":"Elizabeth Solomon","startTime":471.64,"endTime":474.54999999999995,"body":"there be? And what do I need to"},{"speaker":"Elizabeth Solomon","startTime":474.54999999999995,"endTime":478.63,"body":"do to sort of unravel myself"},{"speaker":"Elizabeth Solomon","startTime":474.54999999999995,"endTime":478.63,"body":"from this idea that the only way"},{"speaker":"Elizabeth Solomon","startTime":478.63,"endTime":482.79999999999995,"body":"to meet my needs or your needs"},{"speaker":"Elizabeth Solomon","startTime":478.63,"endTime":482.79999999999995,"body":"is through this kind of one"},{"speaker":"Elizabeth Solomon","startTime":482.79999999999995,"endTime":486.34,"body":"singular path or one one"},{"speaker":"Elizabeth Solomon","startTime":482.79999999999995,"endTime":486.34,"body":"direction and widening the"},{"speaker":"Elizabeth Solomon","startTime":486.34,"endTime":488.53,"body":"sphere to think about a"},{"speaker":"Elizabeth Solomon","startTime":486.34,"endTime":488.53,"body":"different range of"},{"speaker":"Elizabeth Solomon","startTime":488.53,"endTime":489.43,"body":"possibilities."},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":490.06,"endTime":493.15,"body":"So you're saying"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":490.06,"endTime":493.15,"body":"Be flexible, be adaptable, be"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":493.15,"endTime":496.99,"body":"creative, and finding a range of"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":493.15,"endTime":496.99,"body":"possibilities that will be"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":496.99,"endTime":503.16999999999996,"body":"acceptable enough to both? The"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":496.99,"endTime":503.16999999999996,"body":"Win Win idea really has to do"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":503.2,"endTime":508.71999999999997,"body":"with finding a solution, which"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":503.2,"endTime":508.71999999999997,"body":"is satisfactory enough for each"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":508.71999999999997,"endTime":512.71,"body":"side, not what you wanted in the"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":508.71999999999997,"endTime":512.71,"body":"first place, but I can live with"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":512.71,"endTime":513.16,"body":"this."},{"speaker":"Hanuman Goleman","startTime":513.46,"endTime":515.62,"body":"So with that in"},{"speaker":"Hanuman Goleman","startTime":513.46,"endTime":515.62,"body":"mind, let's listen to George"},{"speaker":"Hanuman Goleman","startTime":515.62,"endTime":518.8,"body":"coal research and his ideas"},{"speaker":"Hanuman Goleman","startTime":515.62,"endTime":518.8,"body":"about the Theory of Conflict"},{"speaker":"Hanuman Goleman","startTime":518.8,"endTime":519.34,"body":"Management."},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":521.5600000000001,"endTime":524.38,"body":"I want to"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":521.5600000000001,"endTime":524.38,"body":"welcome to first person plural,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":524.41,"endTime":529.51,"body":"my good dear friend, George Cole"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":524.41,"endTime":529.51,"body":"Reser. He's a psychologist,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":529.63,"endTime":534.28,"body":"professor at IMD in Lausanne,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":529.63,"endTime":534.28,"body":"Switzerland. He's been a police"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":534.28,"endTime":537.28,"body":"psychologist, we'll hear about"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":534.28,"endTime":537.28,"body":"that he started out as a hostage"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":537.28,"endTime":542.32,"body":"negotiator. And from that he"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":537.28,"endTime":542.32,"body":"developed the principles of the"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":542.32,"endTime":545.89,"body":"program he directs, which is on"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":542.32,"endTime":545.89,"body":"high performance leadership."},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":545.89,"endTime":550.33,"body":"It's now standing program for"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":545.89,"endTime":550.33,"body":"senior leaders. And George,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":550.36,"endTime":551.83,"body":"welcome to the podcast."},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":551.98,"endTime":553.96,"body":"Thank you,"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":551.98,"endTime":553.96,"body":"Dan. It's a pleasure to be here"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":553.96,"endTime":554.71,"body":"with you again."},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":554.98,"endTime":558.88,"body":"And let's just"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":554.98,"endTime":558.88,"body":"start where you started out,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":559.27,"endTime":562.42,"body":"which is when you were a"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":559.27,"endTime":562.42,"body":"clinical psychologist, somehow"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":562.42,"endTime":566.23,"body":"you got a job working with"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":562.42,"endTime":566.23,"body":"police to negotiate hostage"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":566.23,"endTime":569.62,"body":"situations, can you tell us"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":566.23,"endTime":569.62,"body":"about it. I was"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":569.65,"endTime":573.01,"body":"trained as a"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":569.65,"endTime":573.01,"body":"mediator. That was my goal in"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":573.01,"endTime":576.9399999999999,"body":"becoming a clinical"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":573.01,"endTime":576.9399999999999,"body":"psychologist. So the focus was"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":576.9399999999999,"endTime":581.86,"body":"on how to handle disputes. And I"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":576.9399999999999,"endTime":581.86,"body":"had an opportunity to work for a"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":581.86,"endTime":585.91,"body":"local police department in"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":581.86,"endTime":585.91,"body":"Dayton, Ohio, and to enter into"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":585.91,"endTime":588.88,"body":"a domestic violence program that"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":585.91,"endTime":588.88,"body":"the government was offering"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":588.88,"endTime":593.65,"body":"because 35% of homicides were"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":588.88,"endTime":593.65,"body":"occurring in families. And the"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":593.65,"endTime":597.0699999999999,"body":"police had almost always been"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":593.65,"endTime":597.0699999999999,"body":"there before. So if we could get"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":597.0699999999999,"endTime":600.73,"body":"mediators in to talk to people,"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":597.0699999999999,"endTime":600.73,"body":"we can reduce that homicide"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":600.73,"endTime":604.3,"body":"rate. Well, in getting to know"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":600.73,"endTime":604.3,"body":"the police riding with them, and"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":604.3,"endTime":607.27,"body":"they were very paranoid about"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":604.3,"endTime":607.27,"body":"psychologists, they didn't like"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":607.27,"endTime":611.86,"body":"us very much in the beginning. I"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":607.27,"endTime":611.86,"body":"was part of writing with the"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":611.86,"endTime":615.13,"body":"lieutenant. And we got a call"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":611.86,"endTime":615.13,"body":"that there was a hostage taking"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":615.13,"endTime":616.39,"body":"at a local hospital."},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":616.4499999999999,"endTime":617.92,"body":"What did you"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":616.4499999999999,"endTime":617.92,"body":"walk into what was the"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":617.92,"endTime":618.52,"body":"situation?"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":618.609,"endTime":621.909,"body":"This was a"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":618.609,"endTime":621.909,"body":"psychotic man, basically, who"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":621.939,"endTime":625.029,"body":"had been stabbed by his ex wife"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":621.939,"endTime":625.029,"body":"after he kicked the door."},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":625.029,"endTime":628.749,"body":"indicies kids against a court"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":625.029,"endTime":628.749,"body":"order. He was holding a nurse"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":628.749,"endTime":631.419,"body":"hostage. He was screaming, I"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":628.749,"endTime":631.419,"body":"don't want to live I have"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":631.419,"endTime":634.809,"body":"nothing to live for. I'm going"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":631.419,"endTime":634.809,"body":"to kill everybody I can. So I"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":634.809,"endTime":639.399,"body":"arrived with them. And the unit"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":634.809,"endTime":639.399,"body":"had been secured. I was standing"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":639.399,"endTime":642.879,"body":"behind a lieutenant who had now"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":639.399,"endTime":642.879,"body":"become the incident commander,"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":643.119,"endTime":647.679,"body":"watching this with open eyes."},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":643.119,"endTime":647.679,"body":"And as he looked around to"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":647.679,"endTime":650.379,"body":"decide who he was going to ask"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":647.679,"endTime":650.379,"body":"to go into that room. Boom,"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":650.559,"endTime":652.989,"body":"because we couldn't use tear"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":650.559,"endTime":652.989,"body":"gas, we couldn't kick the door."},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":652.989,"endTime":655.5989999999999,"body":"And he turned around and looked"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":652.989,"endTime":655.5989999999999,"body":"right at my eyes and says,"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":655.5989999999999,"endTime":660.879,"body":"George, how would you like to do"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":655.5989999999999,"endTime":660.879,"body":"that? Whoa, talk about social"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":660.879,"endTime":664.119,"body":"pressure. All the police"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":660.879,"endTime":664.119,"body":"officers, they were looking out,"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":664.119,"endTime":667.689,"body":"okay, does he have it or not?"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":664.119,"endTime":667.689,"body":"Being a risk taker, I had to"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":667.689,"endTime":671.889,"body":"make that decision. If I don't"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":667.689,"endTime":671.889,"body":"go in, I don't think I could"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":671.889,"endTime":675.549,"body":"have continued to work because I"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":671.889,"endTime":675.549,"body":"lost all credibility. And at the"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":675.549,"endTime":681.489,"body":"same time, I felt curious. And I"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":675.549,"endTime":681.489,"body":"had the sense that this"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":681.489,"endTime":685.299,"body":"Lieutenant which he became a"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":681.489,"endTime":685.299,"body":"secure base to me, trusted me."},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":685.359,"endTime":690.009,"body":"So I got in and Sam was across"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":685.359,"endTime":690.009,"body":"the room and everything I was"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":690.009,"endTime":695.529,"body":"saying, was not working. He was"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":690.009,"endTime":695.529,"body":"just screaming and shouting, and"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":695.559,"endTime":699.519,"body":"then he cuts you to stroke. Not"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":695.559,"endTime":699.519,"body":"her juggler. But on the side,"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":700.179,"endTime":704.379,"body":"screaming she fell to the"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":700.179,"endTime":704.379,"body":"ground. My kids, my kids, my"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":704.379,"endTime":708.759,"body":"kids, that was the last thing"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":704.379,"endTime":708.759,"body":"that was on her mind. He stepped"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":708.759,"endTime":713.3489999999999,"body":"back sort of startled, I first"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":708.759,"endTime":713.3489999999999,"body":"had to manage her to get a"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":713.3489999999999,"endTime":717.579,"body":"bandaid on this cut this wound."},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":713.3489999999999,"endTime":717.579,"body":"And then he came around the"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":717.579,"endTime":721.659,"body":"table towards me now, in a"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":717.579,"endTime":721.659,"body":"nanosecond, I had to decide do I"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":721.659,"endTime":724.659,"body":"call the police end to"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":721.659,"endTime":724.659,"body":"restraining? Do I throw my body"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":724.659,"endTime":729.9689999999999,"body":"at his feet? Or do I talk in"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":724.659,"endTime":729.9689999999999,"body":"dialogue with him? And the"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":729.9689999999999,"endTime":733.8389999999999,"body":"answer was to talk and bond with"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":729.9689999999999,"endTime":733.8389999999999,"body":"him. He approaches me puts the"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":733.8389999999999,"endTime":738.429,"body":"scissors to my throat, never"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":733.8389999999999,"endTime":738.429,"body":"cuts my skin. But he's"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":738.429,"endTime":741.819,"body":"screaming, I'm gonna kill you"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":738.429,"endTime":741.819,"body":"everybody. I can again, nothing"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":741.819,"endTime":747.459,"body":"was working. And after about two"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":741.819,"endTime":747.459,"body":"minutes, I asked him a question,"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":747.489,"endTime":752.139,"body":"Sam, how do you want your"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":747.489,"endTime":752.139,"body":"children to remember you? He"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":752.139,"endTime":756.7289999999999,"body":"paused. Then he screamed out,"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":752.139,"endTime":756.7289999999999,"body":"I'll kill my children to I'm"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":756.7289999999999,"endTime":759.579,"body":"going to kill you. I have"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":756.7289999999999,"endTime":759.579,"body":"nothing to live for, et cetera,"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":759.579,"endTime":762.789,"body":"et cetera. He really went off"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":759.579,"endTime":762.789,"body":"the deep end even further. But"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":762.789,"endTime":766.4789999999999,"body":"he didn't push the scissors"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":762.789,"endTime":766.4789999999999,"body":"anymore. In fact, that was a"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":766.689,"endTime":770.889,"body":"good answer. Although it sounded"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":766.689,"endTime":770.889,"body":"not so good. Now we've started"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":770.889,"endTime":774.429,"body":"the dialogue. So I come back,"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":770.889,"endTime":774.429,"body":"Sam, we have to talk about your"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":774.429,"endTime":778.329,"body":"kids, how do you want them to"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":774.429,"endTime":778.329,"body":"remember you? And that was the"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":778.329,"endTime":781.809,"body":"start of the whole negotiation."},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":778.329,"endTime":781.809,"body":"He said, Well, I'll just kill"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":781.809,"endTime":784.809,"body":"myself. And then we're gonna"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":781.809,"endTime":784.809,"body":"have to think about it. And the"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":784.809,"endTime":788.529,"body":"transactions were what you want"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":784.809,"endTime":788.529,"body":"your kids to remember you as a"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":788.529,"endTime":791.679,"body":"murderer? Do you want them to"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":788.529,"endTime":791.679,"body":"remember you as a father who"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":791.679,"endTime":797.889,"body":"commit suicide, and he started"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":791.679,"endTime":797.889,"body":"to de escalate. And within 10"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":797.889,"endTime":801.309,"body":"minutes, Sheila got out within"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":797.889,"endTime":801.309,"body":"20 minutes, because he had been"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":801.309,"endTime":803.949,"body":"stabbed near his heart, we had"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":801.309,"endTime":803.949,"body":"to get him to another part of"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":803.949,"endTime":809.409,"body":"the hospital. He was willing to"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":803.949,"endTime":809.409,"body":"walk out with an agreement that"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":809.5889999999999,"endTime":813.2189999999999,"body":"first giving up the scissors and"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":809.5889999999999,"endTime":813.2189999999999,"body":"asking a question. And this is"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":813.2189999999999,"endTime":816.609,"body":"what hostage negotiators do."},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":813.2189999999999,"endTime":816.609,"body":"This is part of what message I"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":816.609,"endTime":820.419,"body":"really learned. You ask"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":816.609,"endTime":820.419,"body":"questions. It's not command and"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":820.419,"endTime":823.5989999999999,"body":"control leadership, saying what"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":820.419,"endTime":823.5989999999999,"body":"do you want to do with that"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":823.5989999999999,"endTime":827.319,"body":"scissors? You want to give it to"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":823.5989999999999,"endTime":827.319,"body":"me or throw it on the floor? He"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":827.319,"endTime":831.129,"body":"gave it to me, then do you want"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":827.319,"endTime":831.129,"body":"to be handcuffed in the front or"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":831.129,"endTime":833.889,"body":"in the back? And you want the"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":831.129,"endTime":833.889,"body":"police to come in three good"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":833.889,"endTime":839.199,"body":"questions. Which Dan, I'm sure"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":833.889,"endTime":839.199,"body":"you know, is that each time you"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":839.199,"endTime":843.309,"body":"give a question, and they"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":839.199,"endTime":843.309,"body":"respond, it empowers them, even"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":843.309,"endTime":848.559,"body":"if it's a no and empowers them."},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":843.309,"endTime":848.559,"body":"So that fortunately was the"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":848.559,"endTime":854.709,"body":"story. And he came out. And I"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":848.559,"endTime":854.709,"body":"did have the agreement in the"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":854.709,"endTime":858.2189999999999,"body":"negotiation, that I would go to"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":854.709,"endTime":858.2189999999999,"body":"the judge and plead his case,"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":858.2189999999999,"endTime":861.2189999999999,"body":"because he could probably go to"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":858.2189999999999,"endTime":861.2189999999999,"body":"prison, I would come to the"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":861.2189999999999,"endTime":867.669,"body":"prison and help in re uniting"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":861.2189999999999,"endTime":867.669,"body":"with his kids. And thirdly, I"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":867.669,"endTime":872.199,"body":"would follow up and go with to"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":867.669,"endTime":872.199,"body":"the kids and say he gave up"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":872.199,"endTime":876.129,"body":"because he loved you. He loved"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":872.199,"endTime":876.129,"body":"his kids. That was the key. But"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":876.129,"endTime":877.059,"body":"he was in grief."},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":877.54,"endTime":880.87,"body":"So powerful"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":877.54,"endTime":880.87,"body":"Jordan, I'd like to unpack that."},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":880.87,"endTime":884.1999999999999,"body":"And I can't imagine anything"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":880.87,"endTime":884.1999999999999,"body":"more tense to bring a"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":884.1999999999999,"endTime":888.49,"body":"disagreement into the open,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":884.1999999999999,"endTime":888.49,"body":"which you did, to find a"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":888.49,"endTime":891.67,"body":"solution or define a solution"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":888.49,"endTime":891.67,"body":"that everyone could endorse,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":891.91,"endTime":895.21,"body":"which he did, which is"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":891.91,"endTime":895.21,"body":"astounding to me. And to"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":895.21,"endTime":899.62,"body":"understand his perspective to"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":895.21,"endTime":899.62,"body":"not just to see dismiss him as"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":899.62,"endTime":903.49,"body":"some psychotic guy, but he had a"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":899.62,"endTime":903.49,"body":"point of view, and to"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":903.49,"endTime":906.91,"body":"acknowledge the views and find"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":903.49,"endTime":906.91,"body":"an agreeable resolution. It's"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":906.91,"endTime":911.47,"body":"astounding. Those are the key"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":906.91,"endTime":911.47,"body":"steps of a classic conflict"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":911.47,"endTime":912.04,"body":"management."},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":912.43,"endTime":915.64,"body":"It was one of"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":912.43,"endTime":915.64,"body":"four times I've been hostage. It"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":915.64,"endTime":919.39,"body":"was not the most dangerous. I"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":915.64,"endTime":919.39,"body":"faced someone with a gun who"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":919.39,"endTime":922.9,"body":"actually shot the gun. But Sam"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":919.39,"endTime":922.9,"body":"did not want to kill me. He"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":922.9,"endTime":925.21,"body":"could have put that scissors in"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":922.9,"endTime":925.21,"body":"my heart. He could have killed"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":925.21,"endTime":929.47,"body":"me, but he wanted something. And"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":925.21,"endTime":929.47,"body":"I knew that. That is how you"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":929.47,"endTime":934.78,"body":"have to be able to manage your"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":929.47,"endTime":934.78,"body":"mind's eye to see the person is"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":934.78,"endTime":938.8299999999999,"body":"not the problem, that there's"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":934.78,"endTime":938.8299999999999,"body":"another problem to be solved. I"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":938.8299999999999,"endTime":944.26,"body":"was dealing with Sam, the man,"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":938.8299999999999,"endTime":944.26,"body":"the man hurting to separate the"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":944.26,"endTime":947.68,"body":"person from the problem. And"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":944.26,"endTime":947.68,"body":"afterwards when I came out. I"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":947.68,"endTime":952.81,"body":"was so full of an Amiga. A"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":947.68,"endTime":952.81,"body":"hijack which you described. So"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":952.81,"endTime":957.22,"body":"Well Dan, I screamed, how dare"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":952.81,"endTime":957.22,"body":"you send me into that room, I"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":957.22,"endTime":960.4,"body":"need to talk to you before we"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":957.22,"endTime":960.4,"body":"debrief this, I really left him"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":960.4,"endTime":963.37,"body":"to have it, he just put his hand"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":960.4,"endTime":963.37,"body":"on my shoulder and said, George,"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":963.46,"endTime":967.3,"body":"I knew you could do it, he took"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":963.46,"endTime":967.3,"body":"most of the wind out of what I"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":967.3,"endTime":971.59,"body":"was saying, I kept coming back,"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":967.3,"endTime":971.59,"body":"but I didn't sign up for this,"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":971.59,"endTime":975.01,"body":"this is suicidal. And he said he"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":971.59,"endTime":975.01,"body":"was clever. But I gave you a"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":975.01,"endTime":980.23,"body":"choice. I asked you if you want,"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":975.01,"endTime":980.23,"body":"it was done so well as a secure"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":980.23,"endTime":984.49,"body":"base. And it changed the"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":980.23,"endTime":984.49,"body":"trajectory of my career. And"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":984.76,"endTime":989.26,"body":"that became a red thread in the"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":984.76,"endTime":989.26,"body":"remaining part of my conflict"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":989.26,"endTime":993.52,"body":"management work. And my"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":989.26,"endTime":993.52,"body":"leadership work here at IMD and"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":993.52,"endTime":998.59,"body":"around the world, of being able"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":993.52,"endTime":998.59,"body":"to deal with disputes using this"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":998.59,"endTime":1001.8299999999999,"body":"whole idea of what hostage"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":998.59,"endTime":1001.8299999999999,"body":"negotiators do to get their high"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1001.8299999999999,"endTime":1002.9399999999999,"body":"rate of success."},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":1003.5699999999999,"endTime":1006.81,"body":"And from that,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":1003.5699999999999,"endTime":1006.81,"body":"you took home a lot of learning,"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1007.17,"endTime":1010.92,"body":"I learned"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1007.17,"endTime":1010.92,"body":"that I could face an extreme"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1010.92,"endTime":1016.5,"body":"situation and manage it. I had"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1010.92,"endTime":1016.5,"body":"learned from sports figures,"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1016.71,"endTime":1020.8199999999999,"body":"that you do what you know, and"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1016.71,"endTime":1020.8199999999999,"body":"you know what to do. And I"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1020.8199999999999,"endTime":1024.0900000000001,"body":"remember telling myself as I"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1020.8199999999999,"endTime":1024.0900000000001,"body":"what am I going to do, telling"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1024.0900000000001,"endTime":1028.65,"body":"myself, I know what to do, and I"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1024.0900000000001,"endTime":1028.65,"body":"do what I know. And so I learned"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1028.65,"endTime":1033.15,"body":"how not to be controlled by"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1028.65,"endTime":1033.15,"body":"fear. Because I did feel fear."},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1033.3600000000001,"endTime":1036.54,"body":"There was a point where I had an"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1033.3600000000001,"endTime":1036.54,"body":"amygdala hijack, I thought I was"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1036.54,"endTime":1040.98,"body":"going to be killed. But then I"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1036.54,"endTime":1040.98,"body":"had to come back to be my own"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1041.3400000000001,"endTime":1046.08,"body":"internal secure base, to be able"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1041.3400000000001,"endTime":1046.08,"body":"to be an external secure base."},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1046.5900000000001,"endTime":1050.67,"body":"And it was the person effect"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1046.5900000000001,"endTime":1050.67,"body":"that really got to Sam, I think"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1050.67,"endTime":1055.26,"body":"it was my caring attitude, and"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1050.67,"endTime":1055.26,"body":"my willingness to take a risk"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1055.41,"endTime":1060.6000000000001,"body":"that communicated to him that I"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1055.41,"endTime":1060.6000000000001,"body":"really did care which I did."},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1060.78,"endTime":1063.99,"body":"Here's a man who was grieving"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1060.78,"endTime":1063.99,"body":"his children. That's why he went"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1063.99,"endTime":1068.73,"body":"to the house. totally"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1063.99,"endTime":1068.73,"body":"unbelievable childhood abuse and"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1068.91,"endTime":1073.44,"body":"going from foster home to foster"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1068.91,"endTime":1073.44,"body":"home and sexual abuse. And when"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1073.44,"endTime":1076.59,"body":"he went to prison, I did become"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1073.44,"endTime":1076.59,"body":"a kind of father to him to teach"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1076.59,"endTime":1079.47,"body":"him. This is not what a man"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1076.59,"endTime":1079.47,"body":"does. A man does not beat up"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1079.47,"endTime":1083.76,"body":"their wife, a man does not go in"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1079.47,"endTime":1083.76,"body":"and kick the door. And, and he"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1083.79,"endTime":1088.05,"body":"became willing to listen to me"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1083.79,"endTime":1088.05,"body":"and adapt his behavior. But it"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1088.05,"endTime":1092.19,"body":"changed the whole trajectory of"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1088.05,"endTime":1092.19,"body":"my career, because it was"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1092.43,"endTime":1097.23,"body":"clearly a leadership activity."},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1092.43,"endTime":1097.23,"body":"And words became the foundation"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1097.26,"endTime":1098.73,"body":"of being able to deal with that."},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":1099.06,"endTime":1102.18,"body":"But, George,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":1099.06,"endTime":1102.18,"body":"you've gone on from there, and"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":1102.18,"endTime":1106.8899999999999,"body":"I'd like to hear your journey,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":1102.18,"endTime":1106.8899999999999,"body":"how this informed the way you"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":1106.8899999999999,"endTime":1111.78,"body":"saw leadership, and other"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":1106.8899999999999,"endTime":1111.78,"body":"conflict situations that you"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":1111.78,"endTime":1114.84,"body":"have advised on since then,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":1111.78,"endTime":1114.84,"body":"please tell us."},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1115.26,"endTime":1117.54,"body":"Here's the"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1115.26,"endTime":1117.54,"body":"point, Dan, for leadership and"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1117.54,"endTime":1121.59,"body":"emotional intelligence, you have"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1117.54,"endTime":1121.59,"body":"to deal with the emotions. And"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1121.59,"endTime":1124.29,"body":"you know this from all the great"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1121.59,"endTime":1124.29,"body":"work you're doing with emotional"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1124.29,"endTime":1128.49,"body":"intelligence, you have to be"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1124.29,"endTime":1128.49,"body":"able to de escalate emotions,"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1128.8799999999999,"endTime":1133.98,"body":"and many leaders get triggered."},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1128.8799999999999,"endTime":1133.98,"body":"And what I did, and hostage"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1133.98,"endTime":1139.02,"body":"negotiation is a fundamental"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1133.98,"endTime":1139.02,"body":"leadership activity. You can't"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1139.02,"endTime":1142.35,"body":"use command and control, you"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1139.02,"endTime":1142.35,"body":"cannot tell the hostage taker"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1142.56,"endTime":1145.83,"body":"come out, or we're going to send"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1142.56,"endTime":1145.83,"body":"the SWAT team in, you'll get the"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1145.83,"endTime":1149.25,"body":"hostages killed, you have to"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1145.83,"endTime":1149.25,"body":"work with them, de escalate"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1149.25,"endTime":1152.46,"body":"them, find the motivation. And"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1149.25,"endTime":1152.46,"body":"well, here's what's interesting,"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1152.49,"endTime":1158.28,"body":"it will work in 95% of the"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1152.49,"endTime":1158.28,"body":"cases, as measured by the FBI"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1158.31,"endTime":1160.86,"body":"and Interpol here in Europe."},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1158.31,"endTime":1160.86,"body":"Isn't that amazing?"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":1161.37,"endTime":1164.01,"body":"So one of the"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":1161.37,"endTime":1164.01,"body":"things you emphasize I'd love to"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":1164.01,"endTime":1168.87,"body":"hear about is how important it"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":1164.01,"endTime":1168.87,"body":"is to form a bond of trust in"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":1168.87,"endTime":1170.31,"body":"the beginning. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1170.79,"endTime":1173.61,"body":"trust is a"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1170.79,"endTime":1173.61,"body":"fundamental commodity of"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1173.61,"endTime":1178.11,"body":"leadership. And you don't have"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1173.61,"endTime":1178.11,"body":"to like someone to bond to them."},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1178.17,"endTime":1182.43,"body":"That's the big learning, you"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1178.17,"endTime":1182.43,"body":"only need a common goal. So if a"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1182.43,"endTime":1187.71,"body":"leader can establish a common"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1182.43,"endTime":1187.71,"body":"goal, they can bond to an enemy"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1187.95,"endTime":1192.12,"body":"to an adversary. And they turn"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1187.95,"endTime":1192.12,"body":"that adversary or that enemy"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1192.15,"endTime":1195.75,"body":"into An Ally through that"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1192.15,"endTime":1195.75,"body":"bonding process. But it's goal"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1195.75,"endTime":1201.06,"body":"driven. But the big thing is the"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1195.75,"endTime":1201.06,"body":"leader has to manage their own"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1201.3,"endTime":1205.8899999999999,"body":"fight flight reflex, their own"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1201.3,"endTime":1205.8899999999999,"body":"reactive tendency to escalate"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1205.8899999999999,"endTime":1210.3,"body":"emotions, what you call the self"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1205.8899999999999,"endTime":1210.3,"body":"awareness, they have to be aware"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1210.33,"endTime":1214.29,"body":"of the emotional escalation"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1210.33,"endTime":1214.29,"body":"inside and be able to manage"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1214.29,"endTime":1214.5,"body":"that."},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":1214.95,"endTime":1217.98,"body":"You've called"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":1214.95,"endTime":1217.98,"body":"that being hostage to our own"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":1217.98,"endTime":1222.54,"body":"emotions. hostage at the table"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":1217.98,"endTime":1222.54,"body":"is your seminal book about this."},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":1222.75,"endTime":1226.5,"body":"What does that really mean? You"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":1222.75,"endTime":1226.5,"body":"saw it out in the open, I guess"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":1226.5,"endTime":1230.97,"body":"in hostage negotiation, but then"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":1226.5,"endTime":1230.97,"body":"you recognize something similar"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":1230.97,"endTime":1232.74,"body":"was going on with executives."},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1233.1,"endTime":1235.95,"body":"Very good"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1233.1,"endTime":1235.95,"body":"point. Thank you, Dan. There's a"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1235.95,"endTime":1239.28,"body":"thing to be a physical hostage,"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1235.95,"endTime":1239.28,"body":"but you can also be a"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1239.28,"endTime":1244.26,"body":"psychological hostage, and that"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1239.28,"endTime":1244.26,"body":"is to a boss, to a colleague to"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1244.26,"endTime":1249.09,"body":"an employee to a situation to a"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1244.26,"endTime":1249.09,"body":"supplier and personal life to"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1249.09,"endTime":1254.19,"body":"spouses. children, teachers, the"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1249.09,"endTime":1254.19,"body":"range of what is possible to be"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1254.19,"endTime":1258.87,"body":"a hostage to psychologically"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1254.19,"endTime":1258.87,"body":"without a weapon is so"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1258.87,"endTime":1262.74,"body":"prevalent, even this pandemic,"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1258.87,"endTime":1262.74,"body":"many people felt like they were"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1262.74,"endTime":1267.33,"body":"a hostage to the pandemic. It"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1262.74,"endTime":1267.33,"body":"means powerlessness, it means"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1267.33,"endTime":1271.68,"body":"you feel powerless, you can even"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1267.33,"endTime":1271.68,"body":"be a hostage to yourself. That"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1271.68,"endTime":1277.71,"body":"means that you are filled with"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1271.68,"endTime":1277.71,"body":"anger or revenge or shame, the"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1277.71,"endTime":1283.44,"body":"1000s of internal states that"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1277.71,"endTime":1283.44,"body":"hold you from being able to feel"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1283.44,"endTime":1289.17,"body":"the full joy of life, see the"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1283.44,"endTime":1289.17,"body":"beauty of life, see the the"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1289.17,"endTime":1294.48,"body":"opportunities, and behind that"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1289.17,"endTime":1294.48,"body":"blindness is always going to be"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1294.48,"endTime":1299.52,"body":"loss or grief that holds you"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1294.48,"endTime":1299.52,"body":"back. So this is coming out in"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1299.52,"endTime":1303.84,"body":"many ways by the emotions and"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1299.52,"endTime":1303.84,"body":"the emotional states. And part"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1303.84,"endTime":1309.03,"body":"of that a building trust is to"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1303.84,"endTime":1309.03,"body":"be a secure base. And secure"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1309.03,"endTime":1315.51,"body":"base basically means someone or"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1309.03,"endTime":1315.51,"body":"a goal or something that calms"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1315.51,"endTime":1321.54,"body":"the brain. So that you see, not"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1315.51,"endTime":1321.54,"body":"threat, but you see opportunity."},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":1321.81,"endTime":1324.33,"body":"So what you're"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":1321.81,"endTime":1324.33,"body":"saying is that a leader becomes"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":1324.33,"endTime":1327.3899999999999,"body":"a safe container. For the"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":1324.33,"endTime":1327.3899999999999,"body":"feelings that need to be"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":1327.3899999999999,"endTime":1330.42,"body":"expressed. One thing you've told"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":1327.3899999999999,"endTime":1330.42,"body":"me over the years that I was"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":1330.42,"endTime":1335.46,"body":"always intrigued by was that"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":1330.42,"endTime":1335.46,"body":"often people in your leadership"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":1335.52,"endTime":1338.67,"body":"training programs end up in"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":1335.52,"endTime":1338.67,"body":"tears. Why Islam?"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1339.72,"endTime":1343.3799999999999,"body":"Right? We"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1339.72,"endTime":1343.3799999999999,"body":"have a special way of"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1343.3799999999999,"endTime":1348.18,"body":"approaching this this program"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1343.3799999999999,"endTime":1348.18,"body":"has been going on since 2000 135"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1348.18,"endTime":1353.31,"body":"versions of it plus more in"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1348.18,"endTime":1353.31,"body":"companies and so forth. And it"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1353.31,"endTime":1357.51,"body":"has only one case, we don't use"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1353.31,"endTime":1357.51,"body":"the case method of presenting"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1357.51,"endTime":1362.4,"body":"leaders and then imitate them."},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1357.51,"endTime":1362.4,"body":"The case is you and digging into"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1362.4,"endTime":1366.6299999999999,"body":"who you are the foundations and"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1362.4,"endTime":1366.6299999999999,"body":"following the person we both"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1366.6299999999999,"endTime":1371.31,"body":"loved so much, Warren Bennis,"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1366.6299999999999,"endTime":1371.31,"body":"who talked about the crucibles"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1371.67,"endTime":1375.57,"body":"as building the character of a"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1371.67,"endTime":1375.57,"body":"leader, how do we go back in the"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1375.57,"endTime":1380.22,"body":"foundation and look for those"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1375.57,"endTime":1380.22,"body":"crucibles, the pain points, and"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1380.22,"endTime":1383.8799999999999,"body":"then deal with them. So we see"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1380.22,"endTime":1383.8799999999999,"body":"so many leaders come in filled"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1383.91,"endTime":1388.1399999999999,"body":"with pain that they're blind to,"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1383.91,"endTime":1388.1399999999999,"body":"they don't realize it's a hidden"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1388.1399999999999,"endTime":1393.15,"body":"grief. And so we create the safe"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1388.1399999999999,"endTime":1393.15,"body":"haven, the safe container,"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1393.51,"endTime":1397.83,"body":"generally within a group of 55."},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1393.51,"endTime":1397.83,"body":"And then within small groups of"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1397.83,"endTime":1402.42,"body":"five or six, to open up whatever"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1397.83,"endTime":1402.42,"body":"that trauma may have been, or"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1402.42,"endTime":1405.9,"body":"that crucible, and they grieve"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1402.42,"endTime":1405.9,"body":"over something that may have"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1405.9,"endTime":1411.66,"body":"happened years ago, and free"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1405.9,"endTime":1411.66,"body":"themselves from being a hostage"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1411.66,"endTime":1415.53,"body":"to that. So for many they've"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1411.66,"endTime":1415.53,"body":"never cried. They never"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1415.53,"endTime":1420.45,"body":"expressed with words what that"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1415.53,"endTime":1420.45,"body":"pain is inside. And then it's so"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1420.45,"endTime":1426.3899999999999,"body":"sad. We had three major suicides"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1420.45,"endTime":1426.3899999999999,"body":"here in the last years in, in"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1426.3899999999999,"endTime":1431.19,"body":"Switzerland, the CEO of"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1426.3899999999999,"endTime":1431.19,"body":"Swisscom, who took a rope and"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1431.19,"endTime":1434.28,"body":"killed himself after going"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1431.19,"endTime":1434.28,"body":"through a terrible he was an"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1434.28,"endTime":1438.6299999999999,"body":"entrepreneur, a vibrant love"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1434.28,"endTime":1438.6299999999999,"body":"leader, but he got a new boss"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1438.66,"endTime":1442.98,"body":"who held him like a lion in a"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1438.66,"endTime":1442.98,"body":"cage. And he was going through a"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1442.98,"endTime":1447.96,"body":"personal situation of loss with"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1442.98,"endTime":1447.96,"body":"his spouse. And rather than"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1447.96,"endTime":1452.04,"body":"reveal or express that grief,"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1447.96,"endTime":1452.04,"body":"and build up and he would do"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1452.07,"endTime":1455.7,"body":"physical activities, mountain"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1452.07,"endTime":1455.7,"body":"biking, and he just took a rope"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1455.7,"endTime":1459.93,"body":"and killed himself. Similar with"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1455.7,"endTime":1459.93,"body":"the CFO of Zurich Financial,"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1459.99,"endTime":1464.34,"body":"although his family was very"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1459.99,"endTime":1464.34,"body":"much intact. And then the CEO of"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1464.34,"endTime":1468.9,"body":"Zurich Financial, who felt"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1464.34,"endTime":1468.9,"body":"guilty for over 18 months, he"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1468.9,"endTime":1472.83,"body":"didn't protect his CFO took a"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1468.9,"endTime":1472.83,"body":"rope and killed himself three"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1472.86,"endTime":1478.11,"body":"examples of top leaders who had"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1472.86,"endTime":1478.11,"body":"hidden grief, and they couldn't"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1478.11,"endTime":1482.49,"body":"express it. This is why we have"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1478.11,"endTime":1482.49,"body":"to be able to help leaders"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1482.52,"endTime":1485.16,"body":"unravel the crucibles in their"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1482.52,"endTime":1485.16,"body":"life."},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":1485.73,"endTime":1489.15,"body":"So that's a kind"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":1485.73,"endTime":1489.15,"body":"of conflict management within"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":1489.27,"endTime":1493.47,"body":"Yeah, it's an internal conflict."},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":1489.27,"endTime":1493.47,"body":"But let me start back. I'd like"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":1493.47,"endTime":1498.6299999999999,"body":"to pick up on the thread of your"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":1493.47,"endTime":1498.6299999999999,"body":"work in conflict management. I"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":1498.6299999999999,"endTime":1500.82,"body":"know you've been doing as a"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":1498.6299999999999,"endTime":1500.82,"body":"consultant, for example, you"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":1500.82,"endTime":1503.76,"body":"mentioned the other day, some"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":1500.82,"endTime":1503.76,"body":"work you've done in Mongolia of"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":1503.76,"endTime":1507.54,"body":"all places. But could you tell"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":1503.76,"endTime":1507.54,"body":"us about a couple of instances"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":1507.54,"endTime":1511.26,"body":"where you actually used some of"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":1507.54,"endTime":1511.26,"body":"the principles of conflict"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":1511.26,"endTime":1514.32,"body":"management to help a company or"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":1511.26,"endTime":1514.32,"body":"an executive?"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1514.74,"endTime":1517.17,"body":"Yeah, thank"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1514.74,"endTime":1517.17,"body":"you. By the way, that was over"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1517.17,"endTime":1522.69,"body":"zoom. I did not actually deal"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1517.17,"endTime":1522.69,"body":"with the pandemic. But here was"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1522.69,"endTime":1525.27,"body":"the mining company who was in"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1522.69,"endTime":1525.27,"body":"big trouble. They were about to"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1525.27,"endTime":1528.09,"body":"be thrown out of the country."},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1525.27,"endTime":1528.09,"body":"They had been thrown out of some"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1528.09,"endTime":1531.36,"body":"other countries, and they kept"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1528.09,"endTime":1531.36,"body":"selling the benefits. Were"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1531.36,"endTime":1534.3,"body":"bringing 10,000 jobs. We're"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1531.36,"endTime":1534.3,"body":"bringing all this but the"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1534.3,"endTime":1539.19,"body":"politicians, the stakeholders"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1534.3,"endTime":1539.19,"body":"were having pain points. They"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1539.19,"endTime":1542.94,"body":"were upset and they kept"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1539.19,"endTime":1542.94,"body":"demanding concessions, and the"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1542.94,"endTime":1547.11,"body":"company made so many concessions"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1542.94,"endTime":1547.11,"body":"they couldn't make any more. So"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1547.17,"endTime":1550.8,"body":"what they couldn't do, Dan was"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1547.17,"endTime":1550.8,"body":"what we call put the fish on the"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1550.8,"endTime":1555.09,"body":"table, sit down and talk with"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1550.8,"endTime":1555.09,"body":"the politicians, the investors,"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1555.15,"endTime":1560.04,"body":"the stakeholders, the community,"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1555.15,"endTime":1560.04,"body":"and hear them scream and yell at"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1560.04,"endTime":1565.47,"body":"them, I mean, really be angry,"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1560.04,"endTime":1565.47,"body":"and to listen to the pain points"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1565.68,"endTime":1570.33,"body":"and keep the bond. And it was"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1565.68,"endTime":1570.33,"body":"amazing. After three months of"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1570.33,"endTime":1575.1,"body":"this, the whole situation"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1570.33,"endTime":1575.1,"body":"started deescalate. And there"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1575.1,"endTime":1577.8899999999999,"body":"will be triggers that would"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1575.1,"endTime":1577.8899999999999,"body":"bring it up, but they wouldn't"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1577.8899999999999,"endTime":1581.1,"body":"run away from the conflict. And"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1577.8899999999999,"endTime":1581.1,"body":"so they engage them. And after"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1581.1,"endTime":1584.52,"body":"six months, they reached one of"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1581.1,"endTime":1584.52,"body":"the most magnificent deals for"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1584.52,"endTime":1588.45,"body":"them. That was mutually benefit."},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1584.52,"endTime":1588.45,"body":"We call it mutual gain."},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":1588.93,"endTime":1591.69,"body":"Sounds like a"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":1588.93,"endTime":1591.69,"body":"kind of classic situation in the"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":1591.69,"endTime":1595.56,"body":"business world where people"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":1591.69,"endTime":1595.56,"body":"within the company convinced"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":1595.56,"endTime":1598.41,"body":"themselves that they're doing"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":1595.56,"endTime":1598.41,"body":"good in some way. And they try"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":1598.41,"endTime":1602.46,"body":"to sell that good, without"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":1598.41,"endTime":1602.46,"body":"empathizing, without them to the"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":1602.46,"endTime":1607.2,"body":"people who are going to be"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":1602.46,"endTime":1607.2,"body":"impacted. To hear well, what are"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":1607.2,"endTime":1609.51,"body":"they worried about? Is that"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":1607.2,"endTime":1609.51,"body":"right? Yeah,"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1609.75,"endTime":1612.12,"body":"that's the"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1609.75,"endTime":1612.12,"body":"starting point, pain points, not"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1612.12,"endTime":1616.95,"body":"selling the benefits. But what"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1612.12,"endTime":1616.95,"body":"is the pain point that motivates"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1616.95,"endTime":1620.16,"body":"that decision? And that's"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1616.95,"endTime":1620.16,"body":"behavioral economics in action,"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1620.46,"endTime":1625.26,"body":"already in 1992. With the"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1620.46,"endTime":1625.26,"body":"behavioral economics model, they"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1625.26,"endTime":1629.49,"body":"identified people are basically"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1625.26,"endTime":1629.49,"body":"irrational decisions are made in"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1629.49,"endTime":1632.07,"body":"which you know, through"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1629.49,"endTime":1632.07,"body":"emotional intelligence, by"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1632.07,"endTime":1635.1299999999999,"body":"emotions that drive those"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1632.07,"endTime":1635.1299999999999,"body":"decisions, but the biggest drive"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1635.1299999999999,"endTime":1639.3,"body":"is the loss, not the benefit. We"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1635.1299999999999,"endTime":1639.3,"body":"do more things in decision"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1639.3,"endTime":1643.53,"body":"making based on past loss, do"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1639.3,"endTime":1643.53,"body":"you future loss, anticipated"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1643.53,"endTime":1647.37,"body":"loss or present loss that"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1643.53,"endTime":1647.37,"body":"influences the decision, even if"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1647.37,"endTime":1651.03,"body":"you are the most rational person"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1647.37,"endTime":1651.03,"body":"in the world, and this is what"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1651.27,"endTime":1655.23,"body":"we have many leaders who are"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1651.27,"endTime":1655.23,"body":"engineers and financial people,"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1655.44,"endTime":1659.22,"body":"you know, for them, bonding is"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1655.44,"endTime":1659.22,"body":"something you buy and sell. But"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1659.22,"endTime":1663.3899999999999,"body":"they have to learn what empathy"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1659.22,"endTime":1663.3899999999999,"body":"is and how to bond to people."},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":1663.66,"endTime":1666.6299999999999,"body":"Exactly. I want"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":1663.66,"endTime":1666.6299999999999,"body":"to circle back, George, you used"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":1666.6299999999999,"endTime":1669.9,"body":"a phrase that may be puzzling to"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":1666.6299999999999,"endTime":1669.9,"body":"people that put the fish on the"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":1669.9,"endTime":1672.21,"body":"table, which comes from your"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":1669.9,"endTime":1672.21,"body":"experience in Sicily."},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1672.42,"endTime":1676.77,"body":"Yeah. You"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1672.42,"endTime":1676.77,"body":"know, I traveled to Italy, in"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1676.77,"endTime":1680.91,"body":"the early 80s, doing workshops,"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1676.77,"endTime":1680.91,"body":"and I went down to the fish"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1680.94,"endTime":1684.21,"body":"market early in the morning. And"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1680.94,"endTime":1684.21,"body":"here were all their fishermen"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1684.21,"endTime":1687.57,"body":"coming in with their catch. And"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1684.21,"endTime":1687.57,"body":"they were cleaning those fish,"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1687.57,"endTime":1691.44,"body":"and it was a bloody smelly mess."},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1687.57,"endTime":1691.44,"body":"But they were laughing. They"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1691.44,"endTime":1696.09,"body":"enjoyed it. They also had a good"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1691.44,"endTime":1696.09,"body":"glass of wine, aprons with your"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1696.09,"endTime":1699.18,"body":"name, what was around and I was"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1696.09,"endTime":1699.18,"body":"just watching this, and they"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1699.18,"endTime":1701.79,"body":"were looking at me. And I"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1699.18,"endTime":1701.79,"body":"thought this was interesting. So"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1701.79,"endTime":1705.99,"body":"I went down the next day. And lo"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1701.79,"endTime":1705.99,"body":"and behold, they invited me to"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1705.99,"endTime":1710.1299999999999,"body":"come in there I was with a glass"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1705.99,"endTime":1710.1299999999999,"body":"of wine, a knife cleaning these"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1710.1299999999999,"endTime":1714.84,"body":"fish, just loving it. And it was"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1710.1299999999999,"endTime":1714.84,"body":"a bloody, smelly mess. Now I"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1714.84,"endTime":1717.84,"body":"grew up on a farm so I knew what"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1714.84,"endTime":1717.84,"body":"it is to clean a fish. But I"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1717.84,"endTime":1720.6299999999999,"body":"never particularly enjoyed it"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1717.84,"endTime":1720.6299999999999,"body":"till that point. And I thought,"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1721.08,"endTime":1725.28,"body":"This is what conflict management"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1721.08,"endTime":1725.28,"body":"is. Put the fish on the table,"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1725.8799999999999,"endTime":1728.61,"body":"go through the bloody, smelly"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1725.8799999999999,"endTime":1728.61,"body":"mess of cleaning it for the"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1728.6399999999999,"endTime":1732.48,"body":"great fish dinner at the end of"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1728.6399999999999,"endTime":1732.48,"body":"the day. And how many teams how"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1732.48,"endTime":1737.91,"body":"many leaders keep fish under the"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1732.48,"endTime":1737.91,"body":"table but complex and it becomes"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1737.91,"endTime":1742.47,"body":"toxic? Can you give us an"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1737.91,"endTime":1742.47,"body":"example of that? So for example,"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1742.59,"endTime":1746.91,"body":"someone who feels disrespected,"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1742.59,"endTime":1746.91,"body":"or someone who feels"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1746.91,"endTime":1750.69,"body":"embarrassed, doesn't get a"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1746.91,"endTime":1750.69,"body":"project, or in a merger and"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1750.69,"endTime":1755.58,"body":"acquisition, how to be able to"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1750.69,"endTime":1755.58,"body":"sit down and talk to them. How"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1755.58,"endTime":1761.34,"body":"do you feel disrespected. And to"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1755.58,"endTime":1761.34,"body":"hear the fish under the table of"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1761.34,"endTime":1766.62,"body":"how they feel there was a bias"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1761.34,"endTime":1766.62,"body":"implicit or explicit, or there"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1766.65,"endTime":1769.26,"body":"is someone who is too"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1766.65,"endTime":1769.26,"body":"aggressive. And they're too"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1769.26,"endTime":1772.68,"body":"aggressive on team members. They"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1769.26,"endTime":1772.68,"body":"don't come to meetings on time."},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1772.86,"endTime":1777.45,"body":"So you have to sit down and you"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1772.86,"endTime":1777.45,"body":"have to not sugarcoat it, not"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1777.45,"endTime":1781.32,"body":"sugarcoat it, be able to put"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1777.45,"endTime":1781.32,"body":"that fish on the table. The"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1781.32,"endTime":1785.8799999999999,"body":"reality is you're too aggressive"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1781.32,"endTime":1785.8799999999999,"body":"with team members, with clients"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1786.03,"endTime":1789.84,"body":"that needs to be changed. Are"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1786.03,"endTime":1789.84,"body":"you aware of that? No, I'm not"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1789.84,"endTime":1793.32,"body":"aware of it. I've been born that"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1789.84,"endTime":1793.32,"body":"way. That's who I am. I love"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1793.32,"endTime":1797.1299999999999,"body":"those people, because you engage"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1793.32,"endTime":1797.1299999999999,"body":"them, you help them understand"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1797.1299999999999,"endTime":1801.69,"body":"there's another way to get to"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1797.1299999999999,"endTime":1801.69,"body":"success. And they can change"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1801.69,"endTime":1805.1399999999999,"body":"their behavior if you put that"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1801.69,"endTime":1805.1399999999999,"body":"fish on the table. But what we"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1805.1399999999999,"endTime":1808.05,"body":"learned from hostage"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1805.1399999999999,"endTime":1808.05,"body":"negotiation, it's always by"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1808.05,"endTime":1811.83,"body":"choice. You can't force someone"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1808.05,"endTime":1811.83,"body":"to change. You have to be able"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1811.83,"endTime":1815.97,"body":"to hear the pain points, and"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1811.83,"endTime":1815.97,"body":"then invite by choice. And this"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1815.97,"endTime":1819.75,"body":"is why we know command and"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1815.97,"endTime":1819.75,"body":"control leadership. And you have"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1819.75,"endTime":1822.33,"body":"it in your article leadership"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1819.75,"endTime":1822.33,"body":"that gets results. That whole"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1822.45,"endTime":1825.69,"body":"call received the whole pay"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1822.45,"endTime":1825.69,"body":"setting. It doesn't really"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1825.69,"endTime":1829.65,"body":"motivate people because it's too"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1825.69,"endTime":1829.65,"body":"much command and control. It"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1829.68,"endTime":1832.32,"body":"takes away bonding and takes"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1829.68,"endTime":1832.32,"body":"away choice."},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":1832.71,"endTime":1835.26,"body":"One of the"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":1832.71,"endTime":1835.26,"body":"things that I heard recently"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":1835.29,"endTime":1838.98,"body":"from a friend of mine who"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":1835.29,"endTime":1838.98,"body":"assesses top level executives, a"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":1838.98,"endTime":1845.07,"body":"global company, she said every C"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":1838.98,"endTime":1845.07,"body":"suite executive I've met has the"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":1845.07,"endTime":1849.6299999999999,"body":"achievement drive very strongly"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":1845.07,"endTime":1849.6299999999999,"body":"that competence, but the ones"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":1849.6299999999999,"endTime":1853.8899999999999,"body":"that people like to work for and"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":1849.6299999999999,"endTime":1853.8899999999999,"body":"don't hate working for also have"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":1853.8899999999999,"endTime":1854.52,"body":"empathy."},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1854.6399999999999,"endTime":1857.37,"body":"It's so"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1854.6399999999999,"endTime":1857.37,"body":"clear, it's so clear, people"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1857.37,"endTime":1861.99,"body":"need to feel cared about. And"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1857.37,"endTime":1861.99,"body":"the research is over and over by"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1861.99,"endTime":1866.28,"body":"Gallup and others, that"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1861.99,"endTime":1866.28,"body":"engagement is connected to"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1866.28,"endTime":1870.84,"body":"feeling cared about, Gallup"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1866.28,"endTime":1870.84,"body":"actually uses that word. And"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1870.84,"endTime":1875.22,"body":"they connected to empathy. Your"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1870.84,"endTime":1875.22,"body":"boss has to care about you. But"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1875.22,"endTime":1880.8,"body":"here's the secret, how to be"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1875.22,"endTime":1880.8,"body":"100%, caring, and 100% daring."},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1881.1299999999999,"endTime":1885.03,"body":"That's a secure base leadership,"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1881.1299999999999,"endTime":1885.03,"body":"we found this in, in our"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1885.03,"endTime":1888.57,"body":"research with over 1000"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1885.03,"endTime":1888.57,"body":"executives, that they were able"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1888.57,"endTime":1892.35,"body":"to be both caring, 100% and"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1888.57,"endTime":1892.35,"body":"daring. 100%."},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":1892.47,"endTime":1894.78,"body":"What do you mean"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":1892.47,"endTime":1894.78,"body":"by daring, caring is clear, but"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":1894.78,"endTime":1896.85,"body":"daring. But daring means"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1896.85,"endTime":1899.01,"body":"that you take"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1896.85,"endTime":1899.01,"body":"them out of their comfort zone,"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1899.19,"endTime":1903.21,"body":"you give them challenging"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1899.19,"endTime":1903.21,"body":"projects, you ask them to do"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1903.21,"endTime":1906.54,"body":"different things, you give them"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1903.21,"endTime":1906.54,"body":"an opportunity to learn new"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1906.54,"endTime":1910.23,"body":"skills, new, new things that"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1906.54,"endTime":1910.23,"body":"they wouldn't ordinarily do. So"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1910.23,"endTime":1914.19,"body":"they are daring themselves to"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1910.23,"endTime":1914.19,"body":"try something different. And"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1914.19,"endTime":1916.98,"body":"when people feel challenged,"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1914.19,"endTime":1916.98,"body":"they're going to be more"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1916.98,"endTime":1923.1,"body":"motivated not to challenge. But"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1916.98,"endTime":1923.1,"body":"being able to have within a"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1923.1,"endTime":1926.94,"body":"certain range of competencies,"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1923.1,"endTime":1926.94,"body":"the ability to learn that any"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1926.97,"endTime":1930.36,"body":"talent that you develop, means"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1926.97,"endTime":1930.36,"body":"you have to be able to dare"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1930.36,"endTime":1933.54,"body":"yourself, whether it's a new"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1930.36,"endTime":1933.54,"body":"language of sport, or whatever"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1933.54,"endTime":1934.1399999999999,"body":"it might be."},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":1934.3799999999999,"endTime":1936.3899999999999,"body":"So is this"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":1934.3799999999999,"endTime":1936.3899999999999,"body":"related to innovation, for"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":1936.3899999999999,"endTime":1937.77,"body":"example? Absolutely."},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1938.22,"endTime":1941.07,"body":"Because"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1938.22,"endTime":1941.07,"body":"innovation is going to be risk"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1941.07,"endTime":1944.94,"body":"taking daring is risk taking."},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1941.07,"endTime":1944.94,"body":"One of the big failures of"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1944.94,"endTime":1949.23,"body":"leaders is as they move up, they"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1944.94,"endTime":1949.23,"body":"often become too risk avoided,"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1949.53,"endTime":1954.33,"body":"they lose the appetite for risk"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1949.53,"endTime":1954.33,"body":"taking, and we need risk taking."},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1954.72,"endTime":1959.61,"body":"And we have leaders who are too"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1954.72,"endTime":1959.61,"body":"nice, we're sort of following a"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1959.61,"endTime":1964.68,"body":"research path here that nice is"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1959.61,"endTime":1964.68,"body":"not the way to lead. Kindness is"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1965.19,"endTime":1969.51,"body":"kindness and respect is the"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1965.19,"endTime":1969.51,"body":"foundation. But you know, being"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1969.51,"endTime":1973.44,"body":"nice is a kind of lie. You don't"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1969.51,"endTime":1973.44,"body":"use sugarcoat it, and you don't"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1973.44,"endTime":1976.3799999999999,"body":"really say the truth, as opposed"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1973.44,"endTime":1976.3799999999999,"body":"to being kind."},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":1976.74,"endTime":1980.25,"body":"So kindness, the"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":1976.74,"endTime":1980.25,"body":"way you're using it. And I agree"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":1980.25,"endTime":1983.49,"body":"with you, by the way, sounds"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":1980.25,"endTime":1983.49,"body":"like you wouldn't hesitate to"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":1983.79,"endTime":1989.52,"body":"raise a conflict that you detect"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":1983.79,"endTime":1989.52,"body":"going on. So walk us through the"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":1989.52,"endTime":1993.21,"body":"steps that someone might take in"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":1989.52,"endTime":1993.21,"body":"a team or in a leadership"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":1993.21,"endTime":1997.8899999999999,"body":"position. When you sense there"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":1993.21,"endTime":1997.8899999999999,"body":"is a simmering conflict. And"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":1997.92,"endTime":1998.58,"body":"then what,"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1998.73,"endTime":2001.8799999999999,"body":"okay, so if"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":1998.73,"endTime":2001.8799999999999,"body":"you're going to do it on a team"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2001.8799999999999,"endTime":2006.77,"body":"basis, and Google found this"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2001.8799999999999,"endTime":2006.77,"body":"with psychological safety, the"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2006.77,"endTime":2012.02,"body":"need to be able to share the"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2006.77,"endTime":2012.02,"body":"talking amount of time, do it"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2012.02,"endTime":2015.2,"body":"with emotional intelligence and"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2012.02,"endTime":2015.2,"body":"respect. So you would put"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2015.2,"endTime":2019.07,"body":"whatever the issue is the"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2015.2,"endTime":2019.07,"body":"problem. For example, we just"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2019.07,"endTime":2023.45,"body":"had a case where someone wanted"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2019.07,"endTime":2023.45,"body":"a project, and they didn't get"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2023.45,"endTime":2027.2,"body":"that project, you didn't have a"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2023.45,"endTime":2027.2,"body":"chance to tell them a before"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2027.2,"endTime":2030.47,"body":"they they went home one evening,"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2027.2,"endTime":2030.47,"body":"and they found out at the coffee"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2030.47,"endTime":2033.86,"body":"machine the next morning. The"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2030.47,"endTime":2033.86,"body":"reason was they didn't hold"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2033.86,"endTime":2038.72,"body":"people accountable enough. So"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2033.86,"endTime":2038.72,"body":"this was done by latterly, the"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2038.72,"endTime":2041.81,"body":"person comes in very angry, I"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2038.72,"endTime":2041.81,"body":"didn't get this project, I found"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2041.81,"endTime":2045.95,"body":"out the coffee machine, I want"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2041.81,"endTime":2045.95,"body":"to resign, you're terrible boss,"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2045.98,"endTime":2049.9700000000003,"body":"I trusted you. And now I don't"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2045.98,"endTime":2049.9700000000003,"body":"trust you. So the boss has to be"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2050.0,"endTime":2054.71,"body":"able to manage that and start"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2050.0,"endTime":2054.71,"body":"the dialogue over what is this"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2054.71,"endTime":2059.06,"body":"person upset about both the"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2054.71,"endTime":2059.06,"body":"coffee machine and not getting"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2059.06,"endTime":2062.84,"body":"the project? So where do you"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2059.06,"endTime":2062.84,"body":"want to start giving choice?"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2063.08,"endTime":2067.04,"body":"Well, I want to know why to get"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2063.08,"endTime":2067.04,"body":"the project, good. Reward the"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2067.04,"endTime":2070.9700000000003,"body":"concession, let the coffee"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2067.04,"endTime":2070.9700000000003,"body":"machine stand over to the side."},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2071.48,"endTime":2075.23,"body":"First of all, expressing empathy"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2071.48,"endTime":2075.23,"body":"that you would be upset to arise"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2075.23,"endTime":2078.29,"body":"a boss would be upset if I found"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2075.23,"endTime":2078.29,"body":"out at the coffee machine. But"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2078.29,"endTime":2082.01,"body":"then you say truthfully, the"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2078.29,"endTime":2082.01,"body":"issue is you don't hold people"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2082.01,"endTime":2085.01,"body":"accountable. You're making"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2082.01,"endTime":2085.01,"body":"progress. But you have to be"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2085.01,"endTime":2088.79,"body":"able in this project to really"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2085.01,"endTime":2088.79,"body":"hold people accountable. Then"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2088.79,"endTime":2092.3,"body":"you ask the question, do you"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2088.79,"endTime":2092.3,"body":"agree with that? Or do you"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2092.3,"endTime":2097.19,"body":"disagree? And then you go from"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2092.3,"endTime":2097.19,"body":"there. And whatever the behavior"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2097.19,"endTime":2101.42,"body":"is, you want to be able to"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2097.19,"endTime":2101.42,"body":"express it. So the leader, and"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2101.42,"endTime":2104.39,"body":"Warren Bennis always said this,"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2101.42,"endTime":2104.39,"body":"and I'm sure you probably heard"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2104.39,"endTime":2109.16,"body":"him, the leader has a right to"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2104.39,"endTime":2109.16,"body":"define reality just a little"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2109.16,"endTime":2112.61,"body":"more than everybody else. But"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2109.16,"endTime":2112.61,"body":"you want to reality that the"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2112.61,"endTime":2116.9,"body":"group can agree to a consensus."},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2112.61,"endTime":2116.9,"body":"Because if you argue about what"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2116.9,"endTime":2120.32,"body":"the problem is, it's never going"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2116.9,"endTime":2120.32,"body":"to get solved. But you have to"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2120.32,"endTime":2123.02,"body":"make sure you've listened to"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2120.32,"endTime":2123.02,"body":"every perception that was his"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2123.02,"endTime":2126.74,"body":"point. Listen to every"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2123.02,"endTime":2126.74,"body":"procession, in the military has"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2126.74,"endTime":2131.45,"body":"this actually developed the most"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2126.74,"endTime":2131.45,"body":"I mean, the military, in many"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2131.45,"endTime":2135.38,"body":"ways does encourage emotional"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2131.45,"endTime":2135.38,"body":"intelligence now does encourage"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2135.38,"endTime":2139.4,"body":"psychological safety. And if"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2135.38,"endTime":2139.4,"body":"you're on a Navy SEAL team or"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2139.49,"endTime":2144.35,"body":"that SEAL team, they have to"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2139.49,"endTime":2144.35,"body":"come to quick consensus. And"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2144.35,"endTime":2148.82,"body":"they're able to do that by a"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2144.35,"endTime":2148.82,"body":"leadership style that allows"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2148.82,"endTime":2152.06,"body":"people to say What they think"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2148.82,"endTime":2152.06,"body":"but then we come together and"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2152.06,"endTime":2156.68,"body":"agree, if there is a issue"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2152.06,"endTime":2156.68,"body":"that's blocking that, you have"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2156.68,"endTime":2160.07,"body":"to honestly put it on the table"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2156.68,"endTime":2160.07,"body":"and not sugarcoat it."},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":2160.31,"endTime":2162.89,"body":"So this is"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":2160.31,"endTime":2162.89,"body":"interesting because it speaks to"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":2162.89,"endTime":2166.55,"body":"something people have to do all"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":2162.89,"endTime":2166.55,"body":"the time, with their parents,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":2166.55,"endTime":2171.35,"body":"with kids or leaders with their"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":2166.55,"endTime":2171.35,"body":"direct reports. And that is give"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":2171.35,"endTime":2174.77,"body":"performance feedback. And it's"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":2171.35,"endTime":2174.77,"body":"interesting to me that you say"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":2174.77,"endTime":2178.73,"body":"don't sugarcoat it. On the other"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":2174.77,"endTime":2178.73,"body":"hand, you want to keep the"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":2178.73,"endTime":2182.9,"body":"connection, you want to keep the"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":2178.73,"endTime":2182.9,"body":"bond. So how do you manage that?"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2183.35,"endTime":2187.46,"body":"Well, if they"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2183.35,"endTime":2187.46,"body":"want to be a high performer, and"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2187.46,"endTime":2191.99,"body":"they want to be able to develop"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2187.46,"endTime":2191.99,"body":"their talents, you always have"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2191.99,"endTime":2195.71,"body":"to go through pain. I don't care"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2191.99,"endTime":2195.71,"body":"if it's learning a language, a"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2195.71,"endTime":2199.91,"body":"musical instrument, becoming a"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2195.71,"endTime":2199.91,"body":"doctor in hospital, becoming a"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2199.91,"endTime":2204.11,"body":"police officer, whatever you're"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2199.91,"endTime":2204.11,"body":"learning as a talent, you have"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2204.11,"endTime":2208.91,"body":"to be able to go through and"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2204.11,"endTime":2208.91,"body":"practice doing it and you're"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2208.91,"endTime":2212.39,"body":"going to fail, and you get"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2208.91,"endTime":2212.39,"body":"better each time. And the best"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2212.39,"endTime":2217.31,"body":"way to do that is to get"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2212.39,"endTime":2217.31,"body":"feedback you need, according to"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2217.31,"endTime":2221.3,"body":"the research, practicing the"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2217.31,"endTime":2221.3,"body":"10,000 hours, practicing"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2221.3,"endTime":2224.99,"body":"correctly, and having a teacher"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2221.3,"endTime":2224.99,"body":"or a secure base, who gives you"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2225.02,"endTime":2228.56,"body":"honest feedback. Musical"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2225.02,"endTime":2228.56,"body":"instruments, for example,"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2229.0099999999998,"endTime":2233.12,"body":"learning a musical instrument as"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2229.0099999999998,"endTime":2233.12,"body":"a child, if you have a secure"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2233.12,"endTime":2236.24,"body":"base teacher, you're probably"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2233.12,"endTime":2236.24,"body":"going to stick with that musical"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2236.24,"endTime":2239.12,"body":"instrument. Most kids stop"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2236.24,"endTime":2239.12,"body":"because they don't have a"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2239.12,"endTime":2243.62,"body":"teacher who's there making the"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2239.12,"endTime":2243.62,"body":"pain of practicing beneficial,"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2243.71,"endTime":2248.18,"body":"seeing the benefit. So high"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2243.71,"endTime":2248.18,"body":"performers, ambition is"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2248.18,"endTime":2253.49,"body":"connected to being able to teach"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2248.18,"endTime":2253.49,"body":"your brain how to go through"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2253.49,"endTime":2258.47,"body":"pain for a better result, not"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2253.49,"endTime":2258.47,"body":"just the immediate gratification"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2258.47,"endTime":2261.74,"body":"of no pain, the brain hates"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2258.47,"endTime":2261.74,"body":"pain, very clear, the brain"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2261.74,"endTime":2266.27,"body":"hates pain. But you rewire your"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2261.74,"endTime":2266.27,"body":"brain to go through the pain to"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2266.27,"endTime":2271.34,"body":"get to a better outcome. But"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2266.27,"endTime":2271.34,"body":"high performers want pain, high"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2271.34,"endTime":2275.54,"body":"performers want to know the"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2271.34,"endTime":2275.54,"body":"truth. How can I improve? How"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2275.54,"endTime":2279.05,"body":"can I be better. And that brings"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2275.54,"endTime":2279.05,"body":"in that whole style of coaching"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2279.35,"endTime":2282.65,"body":"that you talk about in your"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2279.35,"endTime":2282.65,"body":"article on leadership that gets"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2282.65,"endTime":2287.45,"body":"results, the leader who takes"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2282.65,"endTime":2287.45,"body":"his moment to help someone"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2287.45,"endTime":2291.8,"body":"understand how to be better how"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2287.45,"endTime":2291.8,"body":"to bring out the best in them."},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2291.98,"endTime":2294.2,"body":"But that takes a caring"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2291.98,"endTime":2294.2,"body":"attitude."},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":2294.68,"endTime":2297.23,"body":"So you don't"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":2294.68,"endTime":2297.23,"body":"just say what the person is"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":2297.23,"endTime":2301.31,"body":"doing wrong. But you also help"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":2297.23,"endTime":2301.31,"body":"them see what they can do. That"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":2301.31,"endTime":2302.78,"body":"could be right. Oh, yeah,"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2302.84,"endTime":2305.87,"body":"it's to"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2302.84,"endTime":2305.87,"body":"benefit them. And I know you're"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2305.87,"endTime":2308.84,"body":"working a lot now with meaning"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2305.87,"endTime":2308.84,"body":"and purpose, which is so"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2309.05,"endTime":2314.27,"body":"powerful. I mean, it is so"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2309.05,"endTime":2314.27,"body":"important to know the person"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2314.27,"endTime":2317.42,"body":"what motivates them? What"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2314.27,"endTime":2317.42,"body":"meaning or purpose? What is"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2317.42,"endTime":2320.66,"body":"their goal? Do they want career"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2317.42,"endTime":2320.66,"body":"advancement? Do they want a"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2320.66,"endTime":2324.98,"body":"salary increase and external"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2320.66,"endTime":2324.98,"body":"motivation? Or are they looking"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2324.98,"endTime":2328.7599999999998,"body":"for something internal, really"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2324.98,"endTime":2328.7599999999998,"body":"meaning and purpose, and you tie"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2328.7599999999998,"endTime":2334.07,"body":"it together? Whatever the change"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2328.7599999999998,"endTime":2334.07,"body":"of behavior is demanded to help"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2334.07,"endTime":2337.49,"body":"them get to that, assuming they"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2334.07,"endTime":2337.49,"body":"want success? What kind of"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2337.49,"endTime":2342.2,"body":"success do they want, I can help"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2337.49,"endTime":2342.2,"body":"you be more successful. If you"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2342.2,"endTime":2345.35,"body":"will speak up in a meeting, if"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2342.2,"endTime":2345.35,"body":"you will, even if you're an"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2345.41,"endTime":2350.06,"body":"introvert, still be able to"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2345.41,"endTime":2350.06,"body":"express take your place for"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2350.06,"endTime":2353.84,"body":"women to be able to deal with"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2350.06,"endTime":2353.84,"body":"conflict in a stronger way,"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2353.99,"endTime":2358.79,"body":"stand up and take their space."},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2353.99,"endTime":2358.79,"body":"If someone is treating others"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2358.79,"endTime":2362.33,"body":"with disrespect, that's a"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2358.79,"endTime":2362.33,"body":"problem. You're talking to"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2362.33,"endTime":2365.27,"body":"people with aggression with too"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2362.33,"endTime":2365.27,"body":"much aggression. You're you're"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2365.27,"endTime":2368.93,"body":"talking with people"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2365.27,"endTime":2368.93,"body":"disrespectfully. And so it's put"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2368.93,"endTime":2372.89,"body":"in the positive context of how"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2368.93,"endTime":2372.89,"body":"it fits into their meaning and"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2372.89,"endTime":2373.61,"body":"purpose."},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":2373.85,"endTime":2376.73,"body":"So in other"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":2373.85,"endTime":2376.73,"body":"words, you deliver the painful"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":2376.73,"endTime":2381.41,"body":"information, but you do it by"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":2376.73,"endTime":2381.41,"body":"framing it in terms of this is"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":2381.41,"endTime":2381.95,"body":"going to help"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2381.95,"endTime":2384.2599999999998,"body":"you. Perfect,"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2381.95,"endTime":2384.2599999999998,"body":"that's a that's a perfect"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2384.2599999999998,"endTime":2387.2,"body":"paraphrase. You probably know"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2384.2599999999998,"endTime":2387.2,"body":"how many leaders don't know how"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2387.2,"endTime":2390.56,"body":"to paraphrase. They complain"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2387.2,"endTime":2390.56,"body":"about not being able to listen,"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2390.98,"endTime":2395.09,"body":"but they can't paraphrase what"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2390.98,"endTime":2395.09,"body":"they just heard. Or they say I'm"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2395.09,"endTime":2398.39,"body":"good at listening. But they"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2395.09,"endTime":2398.39,"body":"can't paraphrase and say what"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2398.39,"endTime":2399.14,"body":"was said to them."},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":2399.29,"endTime":2401.72,"body":"And the idea of"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":2399.29,"endTime":2401.72,"body":"paraphrasing is that you're"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":2401.72,"endTime":2404.84,"body":"repeating back to the person,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":2401.72,"endTime":2404.84,"body":"what you want to stand them to"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":2404.84,"endTime":2408.59,"body":"have said, and so what you're"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":2404.84,"endTime":2408.59,"body":"saying is that one of the first"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":2408.59,"endTime":2413.27,"body":"steps or key steps to managing"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":2408.59,"endTime":2413.27,"body":"these conflicts, is to listen"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":2413.5099999999998,"endTime":2416.3,"body":"and to let the other person"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":2413.5099999999998,"endTime":2416.3,"body":"understand what you think they"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":2416.3,"endTime":2417.77,"body":"said, and then what"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2418.13,"endTime":2421.73,"body":"and then you"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2418.13,"endTime":2421.73,"body":"accept it. Accept it. You don't"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2421.73,"endTime":2426.86,"body":"have to agree. This is a big"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2421.73,"endTime":2426.86,"body":"mindset change. People who feel"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2426.86,"endTime":2432.2599999999998,"body":"rejected because they disagree"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2426.86,"endTime":2432.2599999999998,"body":"with what said. So I can listen"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2432.2599999999998,"endTime":2436.34,"body":"to any kind of garbage. I can"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2432.2599999999998,"endTime":2436.34,"body":"listen to perceptions that are"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2436.34,"endTime":2440.93,"body":"filled with conspiracy theories."},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2436.34,"endTime":2440.93,"body":"I don't have to agree. But if I"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2440.93,"endTime":2443.96,"body":"want to build upon I have to"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2440.93,"endTime":2443.96,"body":"understand where it's coming"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2443.96,"endTime":2448.1,"body":"from. And then at some point,"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2443.96,"endTime":2448.1,"body":"express the disagreement with"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2448.1,"endTime":2453.11,"body":"respect and then you do it In a"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2448.1,"endTime":2453.11,"body":"mutual way, and we live in a"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2453.11,"endTime":2457.34,"body":"world band that's increasingly"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2453.11,"endTime":2457.34,"body":"divisive. Look at the"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2457.34,"endTime":2463.13,"body":"confrontations mass on"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2457.34,"endTime":2463.13,"body":"airplanes, people who refuse to"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2463.13,"endTime":2468.35,"body":"be vaccinated are on one side or"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2463.13,"endTime":2468.35,"body":"another political right and"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2468.35,"endTime":2472.67,"body":"left. I mean, Never have we have"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2468.35,"endTime":2472.67,"body":"I seen in my lifetime, such"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2472.67,"endTime":2478.67,"body":"aggressive behavior, even at the"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2472.67,"endTime":2478.67,"body":"Oscars, the whole story of Will"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2478.67,"endTime":2479.09,"body":"Smith."},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":2479.39,"endTime":2482.03,"body":"So George,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":2479.39,"endTime":2482.03,"body":"you're the expert on conflict"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":2482.03,"endTime":2487.34,"body":"management, what do you advise"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":2482.03,"endTime":2487.34,"body":"in these us in them conflicts?"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2487.52,"endTime":2492.17,"body":"Well, first"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2487.52,"endTime":2492.17,"body":"of all, Cooperation means I want"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2492.17,"endTime":2497.72,"body":"to build a bond, don't create an"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2492.17,"endTime":2497.72,"body":"enemy. And when you have an"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2497.72,"endTime":2502.58,"body":"enemy or an adversary, build a"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2497.72,"endTime":2502.58,"body":"link, train yourself to do it,"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2502.61,"endTime":2505.97,"body":"you almost need training to do"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2502.61,"endTime":2505.97,"body":"this. I mean, unless you had a"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2505.97,"endTime":2509.69,"body":"grandmother or grandfather,"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2505.97,"endTime":2509.69,"body":"parents, when you grew up, who"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2509.69,"endTime":2513.41,"body":"was good at this, I was"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2509.69,"endTime":2513.41,"body":"fortunate I grew up on a farm in"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2513.41,"endTime":2518.5099999999998,"body":"Ohio. So my father was a great"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2513.41,"endTime":2518.5099999999998,"body":"negotiator, he could talk to the"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2518.54,"endTime":2523.04,"body":"Amish over in Indiana and, and"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2518.54,"endTime":2523.04,"body":"buy chickens, he ran a poultry"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2523.04,"endTime":2526.91,"body":"farm. And so I saw this over and"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2523.04,"endTime":2526.91,"body":"over again, how he could talk to"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2527.06,"endTime":2530.69,"body":"people who would get very upset"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2527.06,"endTime":2530.69,"body":"and very aggressive. So I"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2530.69,"endTime":2534.08,"body":"already had a little bit of a"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2530.69,"endTime":2534.08,"body":"foundation before I turned to"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2534.08,"endTime":2538.07,"body":"this professionally. So what has"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2534.08,"endTime":2538.07,"body":"to happen is you have to have"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2538.07,"endTime":2543.62,"body":"the mindset. I want to get along"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2538.07,"endTime":2543.62,"body":"with everybody. Oh, boy that"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2543.62,"endTime":2546.5,"body":"provokes a reaction. No, I don't"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2543.62,"endTime":2546.5,"body":"want to get along with"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2546.5,"endTime":2551.03,"body":"everybody. Well, who don't you"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2546.5,"endTime":2551.03,"body":"want to get along with? And we"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2551.03,"endTime":2556.4,"body":"see the tribal isation in the"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2551.03,"endTime":2556.4,"body":"brain? This is my tribe. This is"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2556.4,"endTime":2560.48,"body":"that tribe? So will you get"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2556.4,"endTime":2560.48,"body":"along with everybody? No, no,"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2560.5099999999998,"endTime":2564.08,"body":"let's be realistic. But you have"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2560.5099999999998,"endTime":2564.08,"body":"to make it very difficult for"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2564.08,"endTime":2568.34,"body":"them. And if you show interest"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2564.08,"endTime":2568.34,"body":"or curiosity, they will"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2568.37,"endTime":2573.2599999999998,"body":"generally create a bond with"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2568.37,"endTime":2573.2599999999998,"body":"you. And I had a very powerful"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2573.2599999999998,"endTime":2577.31,"body":"learning experience in my"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2573.2599999999998,"endTime":2577.31,"body":"training. As a psychologist of"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2577.31,"endTime":2580.79,"body":"going to Marion federal"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2577.31,"endTime":2580.79,"body":"penitentiary for a therapeutic"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2580.79,"endTime":2584.15,"body":"community with lifers. They were"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2580.79,"endTime":2584.15,"body":"having a therapeutic community."},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2584.57,"endTime":2589.31,"body":"And we lived with them for five"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2584.57,"endTime":2589.31,"body":"days. Well, that's a whole story"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2589.31,"endTime":2593.0,"body":"in itself. But I was assigned a"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2589.31,"endTime":2593.0,"body":"particular prisoner who had"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2593.15,"endTime":2597.29,"body":"eaten another person's heart. He"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2593.15,"endTime":2597.29,"body":"was a cannibal. And my"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2597.29,"endTime":2601.7,"body":"professor, Dr. rancor, Ella,"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2597.29,"endTime":2601.7,"body":"wonderful Italian, he thought it"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2601.7,"endTime":2605.81,"body":"was good for me to and I said, I"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2601.7,"endTime":2605.81,"body":"can't do this. I cannot talk to"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2605.93,"endTime":2610.46,"body":"the cannibal. I just won't do"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2605.93,"endTime":2610.46,"body":"it. He very commonly talked to"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2610.46,"endTime":2614.48,"body":"me when to know why he was good"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2610.46,"endTime":2614.48,"body":"at conflict management. And he"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2614.48,"endTime":2617.9,"body":"said, What if you could learn"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2614.48,"endTime":2617.9,"body":"something? What if you could use"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2617.9,"endTime":2621.32,"body":"this personally and"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2617.9,"endTime":2621.32,"body":"professionally? So I agreed. And"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2621.32,"endTime":2624.23,"body":"when I walked in and first met"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2621.32,"endTime":2624.23,"body":"this guy, he was across the"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2624.23,"endTime":2629.18,"body":"room. And I was just sort of"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2624.23,"endTime":2629.18,"body":"paralyzed? He had the first"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2629.18,"endTime":2633.23,"body":"transaction. Do you know what he"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2629.18,"endTime":2633.23,"body":"said to me? Are you afraid I'm"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2633.23,"endTime":2640.04,"body":"going to eat your heart? To the"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2633.23,"endTime":2640.04,"body":"point. I sort of didn't know"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2640.04,"endTime":2645.32,"body":"what to say. But I said, Well,"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2640.04,"endTime":2645.32,"body":"are you? And he said no, no, no."},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2645.62,"endTime":2648.62,"body":"And we became personal friends."},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2645.62,"endTime":2648.62,"body":"Through that process. I learned"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2648.62,"endTime":2653.0,"body":"a lot from him. And he was"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2648.62,"endTime":2653.0,"body":"someone who was deeply lonely,"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2653.03,"endTime":2657.08,"body":"abused as a child. And he"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2653.03,"endTime":2657.08,"body":"thought eating another person's"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2657.08,"endTime":2660.95,"body":"heart would Nicky less lonely"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2657.08,"endTime":2660.95,"body":"that he would bond with them? It"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2660.95,"endTime":2665.72,"body":"was a strange. It's like the"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2660.95,"endTime":2665.72,"body":"Dahmer story of putting bodies"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2665.99,"endTime":2670.7599999999998,"body":"in a preservative by his bed."},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2665.99,"endTime":2670.7599999999998,"body":"Remember the Dahmer story?"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":2671.15,"endTime":2674.75,"body":"I hear you very"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":2671.15,"endTime":2674.75,"body":"strongly recommending emotional"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":2674.75,"endTime":2679.22,"body":"bonding as a first step. But I'm"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":2674.75,"endTime":2679.22,"body":"a little puzzled as to what's"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":2679.22,"endTime":2683.06,"body":"next. And managing conflict. For"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":2679.22,"endTime":2683.06,"body":"example, the all too common"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":2683.06,"endTime":2686.81,"body":"situation these days that you"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":2683.06,"endTime":2686.81,"body":"point to where their leaves us"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":2686.81,"endTime":2691.34,"body":"in them divides. How can we"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":2686.81,"endTime":2691.34,"body":"start to mend that?"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2691.88,"endTime":2695.09,"body":"I think the"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2691.88,"endTime":2695.09,"body":"next step then is to make sure"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2695.09,"endTime":2697.7,"body":"that you don't make the person"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2695.09,"endTime":2697.7,"body":"the problem, you have to"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2697.7,"endTime":2700.46,"body":"separate the person from the"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2697.7,"endTime":2700.46,"body":"problem. And then you have to"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2700.46,"endTime":2703.49,"body":"know what you want. Why? Why are"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2700.46,"endTime":2703.49,"body":"you talking to them?"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":2703.67,"endTime":2706.13,"body":"Can you explain"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":2703.67,"endTime":2706.13,"body":"how to separate a person from a"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":2706.13,"endTime":2707.39,"body":"problem? Okay,"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2707.42,"endTime":2710.03,"body":"so if you got"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2707.42,"endTime":2710.03,"body":"a person with five problems,"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2710.03,"endTime":2714.68,"body":"they're too aggressive. They"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2710.03,"endTime":2714.68,"body":"don't respect other people. They"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2714.71,"endTime":2719.66,"body":"dominate a meeting, they may be"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2714.71,"endTime":2719.66,"body":"five different things. But they"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2719.66,"endTime":2723.5,"body":"are not the problem. The moment"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2719.66,"endTime":2723.5,"body":"you make them the problem, you"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2723.5,"endTime":2727.43,"body":"will become a psychological"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2723.5,"endTime":2727.43,"body":"hostage. So you separate out the"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2727.43,"endTime":2728.18,"body":"problems."},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":2728.6,"endTime":2731.81,"body":"Making them the"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":2728.6,"endTime":2731.81,"body":"problem might mean, you dismiss"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":2731.81,"endTime":2735.83,"body":"them. He's like that. That means"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":2731.81,"endTime":2735.83,"body":"he and problem are one of the"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":2735.83,"endTime":2736.34,"body":"same."},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2736.43,"endTime":2739.49,"body":"He's just a"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2736.43,"endTime":2739.49,"body":"troublemaker. He's just crazy."},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2739.91,"endTime":2743.18,"body":"He's always going to fight"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2739.91,"endTime":2743.18,"body":"whatever we want."},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":2743.57,"endTime":2747.5,"body":"Instead of"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":2743.57,"endTime":2747.5,"body":"saying, he's a person who does"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":2747.53,"endTime":2749.03,"body":"X, Y, or Z."},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2749.45,"endTime":2751.58,"body":"That's it."},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2749.45,"endTime":2751.58,"body":"Actually, that's a great"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2751.58,"endTime":2752.66,"body":"paraphrase. Dan,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":2752.69,"endTime":2755.6,"body":"I just want to"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":2752.69,"endTime":2755.6,"body":"be sure we understand. That's"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":2755.6,"endTime":2755.9,"body":"Carl"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2755.9,"endTime":2759.62,"body":"Rogers in"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2755.9,"endTime":2759.62,"body":"action. So separate person from"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2759.62,"endTime":2764.27,"body":"time and know what you want."},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2759.62,"endTime":2764.27,"body":"What is your goal, what your"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2764.27,"endTime":2769.49,"body":"desire, your interest, or the"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2764.27,"endTime":2769.49,"body":"fish or the problem, then know"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2769.49,"endTime":2773.03,"body":"what the other person wants? I"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2769.49,"endTime":2773.03,"body":"think it's important to start"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2773.03,"endTime":2776.84,"body":"with yourself, first of all, to"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2773.03,"endTime":2776.84,"body":"know why you are there. What is"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2776.84,"endTime":2780.35,"body":"the purpose? What is the meaning"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2776.84,"endTime":2780.35,"body":"of having this conversation? If"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2780.35,"endTime":2784.7599999999998,"body":"I want to train myself, and I"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2780.35,"endTime":2784.7599999999998,"body":"talked to a homeless person? Or"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2784.7599999999998,"endTime":2788.03,"body":"someone who's very aggressive on"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2784.7599999999998,"endTime":2788.03,"body":"the street? Why would I want to"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2788.03,"endTime":2791.6,"body":"approach them and talk to them?"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2788.03,"endTime":2791.6,"body":"Well, I'm desiring to learn how"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2791.6,"endTime":2796.52,"body":"to talk to a very aggressive"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2791.6,"endTime":2796.52,"body":"person, understand someone who"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2796.52,"endTime":2800.06,"body":"is on the street living on the"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2796.52,"endTime":2800.06,"body":"street? And what is their knee,"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2800.09,"endTime":2803.81,"body":"what would they like from me,"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2800.09,"endTime":2803.81,"body":"and then you do this through"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2803.81,"endTime":2809.57,"body":"dialogue. And then ultimately,"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2803.81,"endTime":2809.57,"body":"you find some solution based on"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2809.57,"endTime":2813.05,"body":"a common goal. Ultimately, in"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2809.57,"endTime":2813.05,"body":"work situations, the leader"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2813.05,"endTime":2818.63,"body":"reaching a common goal of why"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2813.05,"endTime":2818.63,"body":"are we going to bond, we don't"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2818.63,"endTime":2823.82,"body":"have to like one another, that's"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2818.63,"endTime":2823.82,"body":"important, we can disagree. And"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2823.85,"endTime":2827.93,"body":"we have to not let that"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2823.85,"endTime":2827.93,"body":"disagreement get in the way of a"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2827.93,"endTime":2832.61,"body":"bond. So I can disagree with my"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2827.93,"endTime":2832.61,"body":"leader, but I don't let it"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2832.61,"endTime":2835.46,"body":"interfere with the bonding, I"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2832.61,"endTime":2835.46,"body":"would do something different."},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2835.64,"endTime":2838.34,"body":"But I'm willing to make a"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2835.64,"endTime":2838.34,"body":"concession because that's what"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2838.34,"endTime":2841.64,"body":"you believe is right, or that's"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2838.34,"endTime":2841.64,"body":"what the team believes is right."},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2842.0,"endTime":2846.5,"body":"And we come to some agreement in"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2842.0,"endTime":2846.5,"body":"that consensus of where we're"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2846.5,"endTime":2847.04,"body":"going to go."},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":2847.64,"endTime":2850.1,"body":"So what you're"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":2847.64,"endTime":2850.1,"body":"saying is that a win win"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":2850.1,"endTime":2854.24,"body":"solution isn't necessarily your"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":2850.1,"endTime":2854.24,"body":"favorite solution, but it's good"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":2854.24,"endTime":2854.78,"body":"enough,"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2855.02,"endTime":2857.63,"body":"it's good"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2855.02,"endTime":2857.63,"body":"enough to match that goal. I"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2857.63,"endTime":2861.38,"body":"think that there's a grief"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2857.63,"endTime":2861.38,"body":"reaction when the other person"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2861.38,"endTime":2865.52,"body":"doesn't change enough. Knowing"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2861.38,"endTime":2865.52,"body":"that they're doing their best,"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2865.52,"endTime":2869.24,"body":"many people are trying to do"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2865.52,"endTime":2869.24,"body":"their best, but doing their best"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2869.27,"endTime":2873.86,"body":"to not interfere with other team"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2869.27,"endTime":2873.86,"body":"members. They may just be quiet,"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2874.4,"endTime":2878.69,"body":"or be afraid to speak up. But"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2874.4,"endTime":2878.69,"body":"we're going to help them speak"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2878.69,"endTime":2881.96,"body":"up. And they have to speak up if"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2878.69,"endTime":2881.96,"body":"they want to be part of that"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2881.96,"endTime":2885.92,"body":"meeting, to modify that"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2881.96,"endTime":2885.92,"body":"behavior, but that I can accept"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2885.92,"endTime":2891.56,"body":"them for the way they are. And"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2885.92,"endTime":2891.56,"body":"demanding change or asking for"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2891.56,"endTime":2895.67,"body":"change is a very delicate"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2891.56,"endTime":2895.67,"body":"process. Now, here's what I also"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2895.67,"endTime":2899.48,"body":"learned very clearly. And I know"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2895.67,"endTime":2899.48,"body":"you know this, people do not"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2899.48,"endTime":2904.0099999999998,"body":"naturally resist change. They"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2899.48,"endTime":2904.0099999999998,"body":"resist the pain of change, and"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2904.0099999999998,"endTime":2908.33,"body":"the fear of the unknown. So when"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2904.0099999999998,"endTime":2908.33,"body":"you are a secure base, and"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2908.33,"endTime":2912.98,"body":"you're able to help them feel"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2908.33,"endTime":2912.98,"body":"protected, and they don't feel"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2912.98,"endTime":2917.93,"body":"the fear, or they don't feel the"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2912.98,"endTime":2917.93,"body":"pain, or the pain is recognized"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2917.93,"endTime":2921.29,"body":"or understood, they will seek"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2917.93,"endTime":2921.29,"body":"that change and be willing to go"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2921.29,"endTime":2925.73,"body":"forward. people every day, seek"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2921.29,"endTime":2925.73,"body":"adventure, seek new activities,"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2925.73,"endTime":2929.57,"body":"change jobs, do all kinds of"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2925.73,"endTime":2929.57,"body":"things that involve pain,"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2929.84,"endTime":2934.16,"body":"running a marathon, during an"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2929.84,"endTime":2934.16,"body":"Ironman, because they see the"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2934.16,"endTime":2937.22,"body":"benefit of that activity, and"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2934.16,"endTime":2937.22,"body":"they're willing"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":2937.22,"endTime":2940.43,"body":"to change. You"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":2937.22,"endTime":2940.43,"body":"know, Viktor Frankl who wrote"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":2940.43,"endTime":2943.43,"body":"Man's Search for Meaning after"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":2940.43,"endTime":2943.43,"body":"he got out of German"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":2943.43,"endTime":2947.63,"body":"concentration camps he'd been in"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":2943.43,"endTime":2947.63,"body":"for four years. He liked quote,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":2947.63,"endTime":2951.89,"body":"a line from Nietzsche. If you"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":2947.63,"endTime":2951.89,"body":"have a wider live, you can"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":2952.37,"endTime":2956.09,"body":"manage almost anyhow, about"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":2952.37,"endTime":2956.09,"body":"dealing with pain because you"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":2956.09,"endTime":2958.46,"body":"see a deeper purpose for it."},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2958.819,"endTime":2962.149,"body":"Yeah. Edith"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2958.819,"endTime":2962.149,"body":"Edgar, who's 92 years old group"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2962.179,"endTime":2966.589,"body":"went through Auschwitz, 13 years"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2962.179,"endTime":2966.589,"body":"old, 14 years old, who wrote a"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2966.589,"endTime":2970.939,"body":"book called The choices. Her"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2966.589,"endTime":2970.939,"body":"mentor was Viktor Frankl. And"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2970.939,"endTime":2974.629,"body":"she says, You can't change the"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2970.939,"endTime":2974.629,"body":"past. But you can change your"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2974.629,"endTime":2978.169,"body":"perception in the future, how"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2974.629,"endTime":2978.169,"body":"you interpreted, she considered"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2978.169,"endTime":2982.0389999999998,"body":"being an ashram, it's a gift. It"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2978.169,"endTime":2982.0389999999998,"body":"taught her more about the joy of"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2982.0389999999998,"endTime":2985.309,"body":"life than anything else. That's"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2982.0389999999998,"endTime":2985.309,"body":"Viktor Frankl in action."},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":2985.64,"endTime":2987.53,"body":"On that"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":2985.64,"endTime":2987.53,"body":"wonderful note, I'm going to"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":2987.53,"endTime":2990.41,"body":"thank you very much for having"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":2987.53,"endTime":2990.41,"body":"joined us on first person,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":2990.77,"endTime":2994.7599999999998,"body":"plural. And I look forward to"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":2990.77,"endTime":2994.7599999999998,"body":"the next time we meet and talk."},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":2994.85,"endTime":2995.78,"body":"I hope it'll be"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2995.78,"endTime":2997.91,"body":"sooner rather"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2995.78,"endTime":2997.91,"body":"than later than that. It's been"},{"speaker":"George Kohlrieser","startTime":2997.91,"endTime":2999.14,"body":"a real pleasure. Thank you."},{"speaker":"Hanuman Goleman","startTime":3008.98,"endTime":3010.63,"body":"Thanks for"},{"speaker":"Hanuman Goleman","startTime":3008.98,"endTime":3010.63,"body":"listening to our interview with"},{"speaker":"Hanuman Goleman","startTime":3010.63,"endTime":3013.9,"body":"George Cole research. If you've"},{"speaker":"Hanuman Goleman","startTime":3010.63,"endTime":3013.9,"body":"enjoyed this episode, please"},{"speaker":"Hanuman Goleman","startTime":3013.9,"endTime":3014.98,"body":"share it with your friends."},{"speaker":"Elizabeth Solomon","startTime":3015.55,"endTime":3020.14,"body":"Before we go,"},{"speaker":"Elizabeth Solomon","startTime":3015.55,"endTime":3020.14,"body":"it's time for Ask Dan."},{"speaker":"Hanuman Goleman","startTime":3023.47,"endTime":3025.39,"body":"Have you ever"},{"speaker":"Hanuman Goleman","startTime":3023.47,"endTime":3025.39,"body":"wanted to ask Dan Goleman"},{"speaker":"Hanuman Goleman","startTime":3025.42,"endTime":3028.6,"body":"anything about emotional"},{"speaker":"Hanuman Goleman","startTime":3025.42,"endTime":3028.6,"body":"intelligence, mindfulness"},{"speaker":"Hanuman Goleman","startTime":3028.6,"endTime":3032.74,"body":"meditation or leadership or"},{"speaker":"Hanuman Goleman","startTime":3028.6,"endTime":3032.74,"body":"maybe purpose or life in"},{"speaker":"Hanuman Goleman","startTime":3032.74,"endTime":3033.19,"body":"general?"},{"speaker":"Elizabeth Solomon","startTime":3033.669,"endTime":3037.419,"body":"If you've got"},{"speaker":"Elizabeth Solomon","startTime":3033.669,"endTime":3037.419,"body":"questions, Dan has answers."},{"speaker":"Elizabeth Solomon","startTime":3037.449,"endTime":3040.149,"body":"Submit your question via"},{"speaker":"Elizabeth Solomon","startTime":3037.449,"endTime":3040.149,"body":"voicemail at Keystep"},{"speaker":"Elizabeth Solomon","startTime":3040.149,"endTime":3046.329,"body":"media.com/ask. Dan, your"},{"speaker":"Elizabeth Solomon","startTime":3040.149,"endTime":3046.329,"body":"question could be selected and"},{"speaker":"Elizabeth Solomon","startTime":3046.329,"endTime":3048.159,"body":"featured on an upcoming episode."},{"speaker":"Kerry Seed","startTime":3048.91,"endTime":3049.99,"body":"What's the"},{"speaker":"Kerry Seed","startTime":3048.91,"endTime":3049.99,"body":"difference between them?"},{"speaker":"Kerry Seed","startTime":3050.02,"endTime":3052.06,"body":"Rational intelligence and IQ."},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":3052.45,"endTime":3055.87,"body":"The difference"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":3052.45,"endTime":3055.87,"body":"is really important. Our IQ,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":3055.87,"endTime":3059.89,"body":"which refers basically to our"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":3055.87,"endTime":3059.89,"body":"cognitive abilities, technical"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":3059.89,"endTime":3064.27,"body":"skills, doesn't change much"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":3059.89,"endTime":3064.27,"body":"through life, it might be based"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":3064.27,"endTime":3068.47,"body":"on something as simple as how"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":3064.27,"endTime":3068.47,"body":"quickly your brain can process"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":3068.47,"endTime":3073.5099999999998,"body":"and master new information."},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":3068.47,"endTime":3073.5099999999998,"body":"That's one theory. Emotional"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":3073.5099999999998,"endTime":3077.23,"body":"Intelligence, on the other hand,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":3073.5099999999998,"endTime":3077.23,"body":"is learned and learnable. And it"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":3077.23,"endTime":3080.83,"body":"has to do with an entirely"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":3077.23,"endTime":3080.83,"body":"different skill set, how we"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":3080.83,"endTime":3084.73,"body":"manage ourselves, and how we"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":3080.83,"endTime":3084.73,"body":"manage our relationships, how we"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":3084.97,"endTime":3089.53,"body":"interact with people, that's"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":3084.97,"endTime":3089.53,"body":"very different from IQ, someone"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":3089.53,"endTime":3093.73,"body":"who's very smart, IQ wise, can"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":3089.53,"endTime":3093.73,"body":"be not so good at emotional"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":3093.73,"endTime":3098.41,"body":"intelligence. And it turns out"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":3093.73,"endTime":3098.41,"body":"that, for example, when you"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":3098.41,"endTime":3102.82,"body":"think about a profession, being"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":3098.41,"endTime":3102.82,"body":"a computer programmer, or being"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":3102.82,"endTime":3108.31,"body":"a lawyer, being a doctor, IQ"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":3102.82,"endTime":3108.31,"body":"skills are very important to get"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":3108.31,"endTime":3111.79,"body":"into the game. They're what's"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":3108.31,"endTime":3111.79,"body":"called thresholds. But once"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":3111.79,"endTime":3115.33,"body":"you're in the game, you're"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":3111.79,"endTime":3115.33,"body":"competing with people who are"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":3115.33,"endTime":3119.14,"body":"about as smart as you are."},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":3115.33,"endTime":3119.14,"body":"That's where IQ falls away is a"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":3119.14,"endTime":3122.2,"body":"predictor of who's going to be"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":3119.14,"endTime":3122.2,"body":"outstanding, who will be a"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":3122.2,"endTime":3125.17,"body":"leader who will be the best"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":3122.2,"endTime":3125.17,"body":"performer and emotional"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":3125.17,"endTime":3128.65,"body":"intelligence takes over there"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":3125.17,"endTime":3128.65,"body":"was a study done, for example of"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":3128.65,"endTime":3134.62,"body":"engineers, where they're asked"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":3128.65,"endTime":3134.62,"body":"to rate each other on how they"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":3134.62,"endTime":3139.63,"body":"do as engineers, and it turned"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":3134.62,"endTime":3139.63,"body":"out their rating on"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":3139.66,"endTime":3143.92,"body":"effectiveness as engineers had"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":3139.66,"endTime":3143.92,"body":"nothing to do with their IQ,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":3144.37,"endTime":3147.94,"body":"very highly related to their"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":3144.37,"endTime":3147.94,"body":"emotional intelligence. Can you"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":3147.94,"endTime":3151.93,"body":"persuade people can you listen,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":3147.94,"endTime":3151.93,"body":"can you communicate? Can you"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":3151.93,"endTime":3155.35,"body":"handle your own emotions, all of"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":3151.93,"endTime":3155.35,"body":"those things make you"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":3155.35,"endTime":3158.11,"body":"outstanding, and they have"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":3155.35,"endTime":3158.11,"body":"little or nothing to do with"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":3158.11,"endTime":3161.5,"body":"your IQ. They have everything to"},{"speaker":"Daniel Goleman","startTime":3158.11,"endTime":3161.5,"body":"do with emotional intelligence."},{"speaker":"Kerry Seed","startTime":3175.21,"endTime":3178.24,"body":"And that's our show."},{"speaker":"Kerry Seed","startTime":3175.21,"endTime":3178.24,"body":"Special thanks to Rene and Vera,"},{"speaker":"Kerry Seed","startTime":3178.24,"endTime":3180.55,"body":"whose voices you heard at the"},{"speaker":"Kerry Seed","startTime":3178.24,"endTime":3180.55,"body":"top of the show and to our"},{"speaker":"Kerry Seed","startTime":3180.55,"endTime":3184.39,"body":"guest, George coal reserves. You"},{"speaker":"Kerry Seed","startTime":3180.55,"endTime":3184.39,"body":"can find more about George the"},{"speaker":"Kerry Seed","startTime":3184.39,"endTime":3187.15,"body":"books he's written and the"},{"speaker":"Kerry Seed","startTime":3184.39,"endTime":3187.15,"body":"courses he teaches at George"},{"speaker":"Kerry Seed","startTime":3187.15,"endTime":3193.63,"body":"coal reserve.com and at KLA dot"},{"speaker":"Kerry Seed","startTime":3187.15,"endTime":3193.63,"body":"Swiss. We also have the links in"},{"speaker":"Kerry Seed","startTime":3193.63,"endTime":3198.04,"body":"the show notes on our website,"},{"speaker":"Kerry Seed","startTime":3193.63,"endTime":3198.04,"body":"first person plural.com. While"},{"speaker":"Kerry Seed","startTime":3198.04,"endTime":3201.25,"body":"you're there, you can check out"},{"speaker":"Kerry Seed","startTime":3198.04,"endTime":3201.25,"body":"guest BIOS transcripts and"},{"speaker":"Kerry Seed","startTime":3201.25,"endTime":3205.27,"body":"resources mentioned in today's"},{"speaker":"Kerry Seed","startTime":3201.25,"endTime":3205.27,"body":"episode. You can also follow us"},{"speaker":"Kerry Seed","startTime":3205.27,"endTime":3209.71,"body":"on Instagram at keyset media. If"},{"speaker":"Kerry Seed","startTime":3205.27,"endTime":3209.71,"body":"you enjoyed our discussion with"},{"speaker":"Kerry Seed","startTime":3209.71,"endTime":3213.49,"body":"George colorizer. Check out some"},{"speaker":"Kerry Seed","startTime":3209.71,"endTime":3213.49,"body":"of our past interviews. Our"},{"speaker":"Kerry Seed","startTime":3213.49,"endTime":3217.39,"body":"series about conflict management"},{"speaker":"Kerry Seed","startTime":3213.49,"endTime":3217.39,"body":"includes this episode, and the"},{"speaker":"Kerry Seed","startTime":3217.39,"endTime":3221.29,"body":"episodes with Aaron Wolf and"},{"speaker":"Kerry Seed","startTime":3217.39,"endTime":3221.29,"body":"Karen Ziggler. None of this"},{"speaker":"Kerry Seed","startTime":3221.29,"endTime":3224.44,"body":"would be possible without our"},{"speaker":"Kerry Seed","startTime":3221.29,"endTime":3224.44,"body":"incredible team. Our hosts are"},{"speaker":"Kerry Seed","startTime":3224.44,"endTime":3228.97,"body":"Daniel Goleman, Hanuman Goleman"},{"speaker":"Kerry Seed","startTime":3224.44,"endTime":3228.97,"body":"and Elizabeth Solomon. Bryant"},{"speaker":"Kerry Seed","startTime":3228.97,"endTime":3231.85,"body":"Johnson creates the beautiful"},{"speaker":"Kerry Seed","startTime":3228.97,"endTime":3231.85,"body":"art you see with each episode."},{"speaker":"Kerry Seed","startTime":3232.12,"endTime":3235.84,"body":"Our audio editor is Michelle"},{"speaker":"Kerry Seed","startTime":3232.12,"endTime":3235.84,"body":"Zipkin. Serena Cardin does"},{"speaker":"Kerry Seed","startTime":3235.84,"endTime":3239.98,"body":"marketing Our music is by Amber"},{"speaker":"Kerry Seed","startTime":3235.84,"endTime":3239.98,"body":"O'Hara and ghosts beats and I'm"},{"speaker":"Kerry Seed","startTime":3239.98,"endTime":3244.54,"body":"curious seed. This podcast is"},{"speaker":"Kerry Seed","startTime":3239.98,"endTime":3244.54,"body":"sponsored by Keystep media, your"},{"speaker":"Kerry Seed","startTime":3244.54,"endTime":3246.61,"body":"source for personal and"},{"speaker":"Kerry Seed","startTime":3244.54,"endTime":3246.61,"body":"professional development"},{"speaker":"Kerry Seed","startTime":3246.61,"endTime":3250.12,"body":"materials focused on"},{"speaker":"Kerry Seed","startTime":3246.61,"endTime":3250.12,"body":"mindfulness, leadership and"},{"speaker":"Kerry Seed","startTime":3250.12,"endTime":3253.6,"body":"emotional intelligence. Next"},{"speaker":"Kerry Seed","startTime":3250.12,"endTime":3253.6,"body":"time, we'll discuss the"},{"speaker":"Kerry Seed","startTime":3253.6,"endTime":3256.69,"body":"pandemic's effect on children's"},{"speaker":"Kerry Seed","startTime":3253.6,"endTime":3256.69,"body":"emotional balance with New York"},{"speaker":"Kerry Seed","startTime":3256.69,"endTime":3260.83,"body":"Times correspondent Claire Kane"},{"speaker":"Kerry Seed","startTime":3256.69,"endTime":3260.83,"body":"Miller. Until then, take care of"},{"speaker":"Kerry Seed","startTime":3260.83,"endTime":3262.3,"body":"yourself and we'll talk soon"}]}