Chris Dewilde - Being An Investor Focused Agent in Chicago

Chris Dewilde is a real estate agent in the Chicago area that serves real estate investors. With a 10 year contracting background, Chris has a ton of knowledge to help investors pick great properties, know and understand renovation costs, and see opportunities in properties where others may pass. We discuss how Chris adds value to those he works with, and helps them grow their real estate portfolio depending on their preferences and goals. Chris is also a brand new dad, welcoming his first child into the world 2 months ago.

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

you will be shopped. Until you build a relationship as an agent. You're gonna get shopped. They're gonna talk to a million people and just being direct with them catches them off guard, cause every agent is just like oh my God, yes, yes, yes, yes, I'm not your yes man. I tell them that from the beginning. Hey, listen, I would really hope that we can build a working relationship, but I'm not your yes man. I'm gonna tell you when something's a bad idea and we may not agree, and that's okay. Just understand that. I'm only advising you based on what I think would be best for you.

Speaker 2: 0:35

Welcome to the Real Freedom show, where we inspire you to pursue your passion to gain time and financial freedom through opportunities in real estate. I'm your host, mike Swenson. Let's get some real freedom together. Hello everybody, welcome to another episode of Real Freedom Real Estate Leverage Freedom talking about building time and financial freedom through opportunities in real estate. I'm your host, mike Swenson, and if you wanna begin your journey or figure out next steps to scaling and growing income streams within real estate, go to our website, freedomthroughrealestatecom. That's freedomthroughrealestatecom. There's a lot of great information on there articles to help you out and get you started. But today I'm super excited because we've got a guest here that has a really cool story, coming out of the Chicago area, and so maybe just on the tail end of football season here we can maybe commiserate about we didn't make the playoffs and the other two teams did.

Speaker 2: 1:37

So we've got Chris DeWild here. Chris had a background as a contractor for 10 years, now an agent and works exclusively with investors. So we'll talk about his journey and talk about kind of how he helps clients with investment properties. And I should also add new dad. So we won't hold anything against him that he says today because he might be operating on new dad brain from shortages of sleep. So I know how that goes. So, chris, we're so excited to have you on the show. Welcome Thanks, man.

Speaker 1: 2:04

I appreciate it and yeah, it's definitely a dad brain. Sleep is a myth.

Speaker 2: 2:10

Yeah, why don't you just start? Tell us a little bit about your background, tell us a little bit about your journey, and we'll go from there.

Speaker 1: 2:16

Yeah, absolutely so. I did large loss, like hail and wind damage and like fire damage. For about 10 years I traveled a lot around the country you know which we had talked about in your market as well and after time the industry started to really change. On the contracting side, when dealing with insurance companies, there were a lot of bad apples spoiling the bunch. It just kind of got to a point where I was over it and I was looking for a new avenue and I knew that real estate had always interested me, right, and so I kind of made that segue and it translated so well as I got into it I actually had the GCs that I knew here locally hitting me up for their properties, right, like, hey, how do we do this? You know, how do we invest in this? What would be a good ARV? You know things like that.

Speaker 1: 3:01

And what I've learned just being dealing with investors is they burn out agents. I mean, I'm sure you've dealt with it with investors They'll churn agents because they don't care in particular about the agent, because they don't build enough value to them, right? They know their numbers, they know what they're the big boys, if you will know what they're doing. They know what their numbers are. They know what they wanna pay and what they wanna sell and it's usually not through anyone's fault of their own because the agent themselves doesn't know how to talk or present to them.

Speaker 1: 3:36

Too many agents are worried about saving the deal and not worried about what the investor needs, right? I mean, when my investors and I go out hunting, and especially in like the Lakeview, lincoln Park, like the downtown areas that people wanna be, we'll write 15, 20 offers. I mean, I call it pissing people off and I love doing it, because these properties are destroyed, downright despicable, but they want more and it's been on the market for a long time and we're hitting them with offers that are actually understandable at three, four, 500,000 less than what they want, just because the numbers make sense. And my investors love me for that, because I don't care about my commission so much as I do is getting them the deal that they deserve and advising them properly on cost. That's really the part that hams a lot of investors up, especially out of state investors. Cost per market changes so much.

Speaker 2: 4:32

Just quickly want to touch on what you were talking about with investors.

Speaker 2: 4:37

You know, churning through agents.

Speaker 2: 4:38

It's something that I have a difficult time with because the investors I work with are, you know, a lot of them are out of state, and it's kind of like I feel like I'm competing with every other market in the United States because it's like, well, if you're, if you don't invest here, you're going to be able to invest somewhere else.

Speaker 2: 4:52

Right, You're looking for the best investment for you. So it's trying to differentiate yourself and, like you said, add value in a way that, yeah, I understand. You know they're not going to be exclusively investing in my market. They want to be able to diversify their funds but at the same time, I want them to still continue to want properties in our market, and so I take it it's important to me that I find them good deals, find them deals that are going to make money and then provide them great service so that they do want to come back. So we talked just a little bit about how you add value to them, and you've already given some examples, but just talk about retaining clients so that they want to continue to work with you and invest in the Chicago area.

Speaker 1: 5:32

Right. So, first and foremost, you know when you're dealing with investors, especially you're out of state, or know all of your local and county and state building regulation. Know it all. Download the handbook so that way, even if you don't have to memorize, boom, you just flip to a page like hang on, let me see what it says in here, because they don't know what they don't know. Right, like in Chicago, when you buy an investment property, you can do an express permit online. That's something most people don't know. Right, to avoid waiting six weeks for an inspector. But if you don't know that, that can hem up a remodel for six months because you schedule the inspection and then, by the time they get out, three, four weeks has gone by and then God forbid, you have to fix something. Now you got another two weeks before they come out and before you know it, you're just. You're rack and clothe a holding cost, you're racking up permitting fees because you got to pay for them to come back out and re-inspect. Right, know all of your building code. Hey, this will be zonable because it's seven foot ceiling height, okay, and as far as the HVAC is concerned, it's all got to be this far from the bedrooms, et cetera. Because, if not right like, these are the things that you can provide value to keep them coming back to you Like, yeah, I could go to this market where the value seems to be more, but I go here and I don't make any mistakes and I'm guaranteed to make my money.

Speaker 1: 6:53

The last three I did, or the last one I did with Chris, he didn't steer me wrong. I'm still making money. I had an investor disappear on me for three years. He was investing in Ohio and he comes back to me he goes listen, I bought 12 properties out there and I'm essentially eating my ass on this and I'm like, right, I mean, he's like, because of build building code permits, I didn't know about things like cost of labor.

Speaker 1: 7:15

And you got to know your market, right, they know their cost, they know what they want to pay, what the ARV should be, but they don't know the untouchables, the variables that are not tangible, that can affect it. Because you know that area, hey, you want to buy that property. But just so you know, this property sits on a corner lot that faces a railroad track that nobody's going to want to live in because it's super loud, no-transcript. Yeah, it's close to the college and you may get some college students who don't care, but you're not going to get the rent value that you would a block in. That's how you provide value. Know your market, know your building codes, know what your contractors are charging for certain projects. Know what the permits cost. You save your investor a ton of headache, and thus they come back.

Speaker 2: 8:06

Well and let's talk a little bit before we get too deep here in helping an investor. So say you work with people who are new, all the way through seasoned agents or seasoned investors that are buying large properties. I talk about being a matchmaker. I'm trying to match what you're looking to accomplish with opportunities that scratch that itch. So maybe walk through helping guide them if they don't necessarily know what they're looking to do or where they're looking to go.

Speaker 1: 8:33

Right. So it's really about discovery. We talk about it as age all the time. We have to do discovery.

Speaker 1: 8:40

Well, what interests you more? Are you looking to make capital within the next 90 days? Are you willing to wait two to three years, right. Are you trying to buy a three to four unit building, rehab, pull equity out and then buy another? Like there's a thousand ways to skin that cat? So you really just have to narrow down what they're willing to do, because if you have an investor that's like well, I want to flip, and then I want to do multi-family, and then I want to do this and I want to, you have to stop them and be like well, listen, this is great, but you're going to get really disorganized, because standard operating procedures, your SOPs, your systems and operations that's what's going to define whether or not you make it as an investor. The best ones I know have a process. Before we ever even write an offer, they've already got an architectural drawing up of what they would do for the building, how, what their costs are going to be, before they even write it. And that's a lot of work, but there's less mistakes because they're focused.

Speaker 1: 9:36

When you have an investor that's all over the place. You just really have to reel them in and ask them what are they best suited for? What does your reserves look like? Can you hold the property for eight months, cashflow wise on a hard money loan? What's your 10, 13%? Or can you just hold the property for three months? Because if you're only looking at three months, you need to be doing flips. But you also have to be realistic on what your profit margin looks like on those. So that's, it's really. It's like a fingerprint. It's different for everybody.

Speaker 2: 10:06

Yeah, and I think too, talking about out of state investors, it also matters like, yeah, how involved do they want to be in the process? Is it hey, we've got our boots on the ground general contractor that's running everything, or is that person going to roll up their sleeves and put in their own time too? So understanding that time is really important, because they may have the right funds, but if they don't have a lot of time because they're working another W2 job or entrepreneur and they've got their own businesses, they just need to know that the person the boots on the ground's got it taken care of. So, understanding how much time they have available and committed to be able to help with those projects too.

Speaker 1: 10:43

Right, absolutely. And you can charge a project management fee aside from that and manage after the closing. You're outside of the brokerage, you're not doing rent, rolls and leases and stuff like that for them, but you can manage the contractors and so on and so forth Right, if you want to really provide value, hey, I'm hands your hands off. I'm only going to call you when something's a problem. Okay, cool, and that builds so much for them, especially like you said. Yeah, I think people forget there's a lot of W2 jobs and people who work for corporations that make a lot of money Right, but they also have bosses to answer to you still, so they don't have the freedom that we have.

Speaker 2: 11:26

Well, it also comes back to, you know, going back to goals, it could be cash flow, it could be equity, it could be they're looking to help offset some of their taxes. Right, you know, as people have more and more wealth, they're less concerned about cash flow if they can have a spot where they know it's going to help reduce their taxes. So I think that's also to understanding what their goals are, because you know you can show two properties that are completely different to two different people and one like one, one like the other because it's what they're looking to get out of it. So back to discovery. Like it's important to understand what their objectives are.

Speaker 1: 12:00

Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 1: 12:02

And just understand, you will be shopped until you build the relationship as an agent.

Speaker 1: 12:08

You're going to get shopped, they're going to talk to a million people and, you know, just being direct with them catches them off guard, because every agent is just like, oh my God, yes, yes, yes, yes, I'm not your yes man. I tell them that from the beginning. Hey, listen, I would really hope that we can build a working relationship, but I'm not your yes man. I'm going to tell you when something's a bad idea and we may not agree, and that's okay. Just understand that I'm only advising you based on what I think would be best for you. Right, and the honesty in that and the transparency BC seeing them on your offers, bc, seeing them on every response the agents get, so that they know that you're being honest. Right, like I have an investor that'll call me and he'll be like hey, I want to offer on this property, write what you think it's worth and then just send it to me to docusign. Okay, you know, like, that's how that's the trust that you can build, but it takes time and patience.

Speaker 2: 13:07

How long have you been working with some of those clients?

Speaker 1: 13:10

So, honestly, I met a lot of them year one in the business. It took me three years before they started calling me consistently and now it's almost all the time. And that's where just any sales job on the planet people focus on the 5% of people that are willing to do something right now in real estate they're about the five year guy. Because that's what really took me off is I'm getting calls from people because of like my TikTok and like this, because, fun fact, tiktok, save everybody's name in your phone number in your phone under a contact TikTok and Facebook will suggest your reels to them. It'll suggest your videos to them. I'm having investors call me that I haven't talked to in years.

Speaker 1: 13:56

But that relationship is built over a long period of time. It doesn't happen overnight. You will get those people where you just jive and that's fine, but understand that relationships are built on remembering birthdays remembering their dog's birthday, their kid's birthday, sending them a card. You know, not like a cheesy card, like I'll send people a gift card like for Starbucks, like hey, happy anniversary. Like go get some coffee on me. You know, like, how do you remember that? And then one guy I hit him up and he's like dude, I forgot it was my anniversary in a couple of days. He was like I gotta go. I was like, all right, man.

Speaker 2: 14:30

I'm gonna be your tagline, remembering your anniversary for you, since helping you out with your spouses. Well, I remember, you know, having spent so much time when I started working with investors obviously it's on the buy side I remember having my first listing as an investor with an investor client and it was like, oh, that's right. Yeah, people do still sell them because I was so focused on helping them buy. But then at some point they are looking to sell and so you do get kind of that business. That just naturally will happen over time as you grow.

Speaker 1: 15:00

Yeah, absolutely. And you know a lot of investors say, oh, I'm gonna hold this for life. But when the maintenance deteriorates to a certain point and it's not worth rehabbing and pulling the ARB out again, they're like, all right, let's get rid of it. I got enough equity in it. I pulled and then, essentially as an investor, you double dipped, you rehab the property, you pulled out 75%, because on a commercial refi, right, you're not pulling out a full 80, 85. You pull out 70, 75. So then another six, seven years goes by, in eight years, and now you're just like, maybe I'll just pull out and buy something else and do it again. But now you can, or even tap into the HELOC. I got a client right now he's tapping into his own house. He's got a million other houses tapping into another 700K and HELOC money and he's buying three. But you gotta play that smart and that's where people lose it is. They think that it's all easy. You gotta file your taxes, right? That's something I run into a lot.

Speaker 2: 15:54

I was just gonna say for people that rehab a lot of properties too, if you leave a little bit of meat on the bone for the next person, you might attract a different pool of buyers too.

Speaker 2: 16:05

Or if you completely finish like we've got a 25 unit apartment and we could rehab every single one of those units or we could choose to leave a little bit of value add for the next person, well, there might be a different pool of buyers when you do it that way. Also, thinking about people always ask me when somebody's looking to sell, well, why are they looking to sell? They're trying to find that red flag, and I often tell people we may be able to figure that out, but everybody's in such a different spot in life and their financial situation and their tax situation that we may not be able to put our finger on that, because somebody might just be looking for a tax deduction, somebody might have a life change and they have to repurpose their portfolio, and so while we may think, oh, they're trying to pass something over on us, we probably won't know the reason why they're looking to sell their property, because everybody makes decisions for different reasons and it might not be the reason you would decide to sell.

Speaker 1: 17:03

Yeah, and that's a fun question, because residential buyers for regular homes to live in and investors will. Why do you think they're selling? Do you think we can offer less? I'll write whatever you want. I'm your agent. I'll advise you what I think will get it done. Well, you never know, I'm not afraid. Right, Like that's how I always tell people write what you think it's worth and let's see what happens. If they don't give you a counter at all, listen to me, maybe we'll come up right, but if they give you a counter, hey, they might be in a different spot. That's a fun question. It always is.

Speaker 2: 17:32

Yeah, well, because I give an example of, let's just say, for clean numbers of properties listed at 500, maybe it's been on the market a while, you wanna come in at 450. I said, well, we can certainly write that offer at 450. We don't really know where the sellers at until we see what their counter offer is. If it's 500, we write at 450 and they come back at 475. Okay, great, they're willing to negotiate a little bit. If it's 500, we offer 450 and they come back at 498,. Well then, they're not willing to negotiate too much, right? And so you don't really know kind of where they're at, unless you see how they respond to that counter offer to know how much wiggle room there is to negotiate.

Speaker 1: 18:12

Right, and then, you know, always do what I like to call an educated offer. Go to the tax report. What was the last mortgage recorded at? What's their interest rate? How long ago did they refi? Cause we have access to all of that right. At least my MLS. It shows us on, like, when we click the tax report. Okay, so they refied this in 2020 and pulled out X amount of money. So do some math. This is their equity position, which means that they have to sell at X number in order to even break even after fees. We can go low if they're in a position where they wanna pay to get out of this thing. Right, like and look at the situations. What's the listing time? How long's it been on? How many times did they go on and off market? You know, make the offer with a little bit of thought behind it. Don't worry about the seller situation. Look at the facts and what's on paper, and we have that information. You know, we have the technology. You know, like that's it.

Speaker 2: 19:08

Talk a little bit about some of how you've seen investors progress or change over time, cause I think one of the things that I like to tell especially newer investors is it's important to just get in the game right. The path you pick now is not gonna be the path that you're on. Like, if you decide to start with a flip, that doesn't mean you're gonna be a flipper for life, right, and so I'd love to maybe just hear how some people, how their path, has changed as they've evolved. You know we have investors where it's like, yeah, we start with single families and duplexes. Well, then they see the hassle of that and now they want to move to four plexes or 10 plexes. You know, whatever it might be, they might naturally scale up or they decide to get into a different asset class. So I would love to just kind of hear your thoughts with maybe some of the investors you've worked with on their how their journey has changed.

Speaker 1: 19:54

Yeah, a lot of investors go. They start in you know, the section eight rental place because that's what they can afford when they start, and then they try to start moving up to like what they would. The lenders are considered B class and A class, like neighborhoods where, like the ARVs are there right. But then I had another investor did the opposite. He was in the city, he was in like Gold Coast, like really nice areas, and he was like wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. So he had a building similar to yours, 25 units.

Speaker 1: 20:22

So what it was was he went to the city with a deal. He said listen, I have. He had 12 units that just wouldn't make sense for him to rehab out Cause, like you said, leave meat on the bone for whenever, if ever, you decide to sell it. So someone has equity to add right and he goes well, I can't rent those at fair market. But HUD, because it was an opportunity area, gave him an extra 10% on top of market to rent those out. So he went to the city and he actually got an additional deduction for making his building in an opportunity area with 10% or more of the units available for section eight. So not only did he get a huge tax deduction for it. He raised his rent rolls and from that he decided why am I doing this? He goes.

Speaker 1: 21:07

Those were the best tenants I ever had. They'd ever want to break anything. They don't want to destroy anything. They're nine times out of 10, they're good people right In a bad spot and the fact is they ruined the unit. They screw you on rent. They do whatever. They lose that voucher across the country. So then he moved all of his business into the southern side of Chicago, like the South side and like more section eight properties. What he was doing and he was getting way better ARVs and he was doing these what you would consider like to the nines buying complete 10 and 11 units guts and then all the way up cash out, refining and then cutting them out like sectionating them out. I've never really seen an investor go the other way on that. Usually it starts that way and goes that way, but that was interesting to me.

Speaker 2: 21:53

Well, that kind of goes back to our conversation of what are their goals and what are they looking to get out of it. Because I have a conversation with an investor and we talk about sectionate and some of them will be like, oh, I don't want that at all. And some will be like, hey, guaranteed payment every month. We know that the government's gonna pay, I don't have to shake them down for my rent every month. And so it comes back to it depends on your preference, right? And so people are investing in all different pockets and it's what do you want to get out of it? What's your risk tolerance and what types of properties do you want? But yeah, like you said, some people might look at that and say, hey, that's not a market that I want to touch, and some people will say, that's gonna be my bread and butter. That's what I want to focus on and that's the cool thing about work with investors.

Speaker 2: 22:37

Everybody's got different goals and objectives.

Speaker 1: 22:39

Right, and it keeps it interesting, for sure.

Speaker 2: 22:42

Talk about the future a little bit. Where are you thinking you want to continue to grow In your job? I know you had some investments in the past and have sold them. I'm curious to hear future goals for you, future direction.

Speaker 1: 22:54

Future direction. When I start ramping back up again, it's gonna be five units plus is what I want to start with. I'm probably gonna be in the section eight realm. I like that as an investor. Probably will be outskirts of Chicago, maybe a little further south. But wherever I pick, I'm gonna localize. A lot of investors want to buy one here because it was a good deal and one in another state because it was a good deal. Localize your investments so that you have five, six, seven of these in one area. So it makes sense to have a property management company. But if you have one property in Minnesota, you have one property in Chicago and you want to know how you're paying 10% on each of these and you're not. It's scattered. So that's what I would want to go into.

Speaker 1: 23:41

Just because you buy the buildings at a reasonable price, just because you rehab it and put some money into it, doesn't mean you have to pull out the full 75% on a refi. You can choose to pull out. Hey man, I only want 50% of my money back. I only want my rehab money back. I don't need to purchase money back, right, like and that's where a lot of people get wrong is they're like oh, I want to pull out the max. Why Leave a little juice for you to squeeze when you need it? Right, and that's kind of what my goal is in the future. As far as being an agent, I'm working on building a team, you know. I'm working on providing more leads for them, but training as well, because the leads don't mean anything if you're not going to call.

Speaker 2: 24:29

You made a great point in terms of strategy, wanting to focus in an area, because I've seen some people that do that.

Speaker 2: 24:34

That's one of those things that it's hard to quantify that on a spreadsheet, right Like we start with a deal calculator, we're running numbers, and you'll see some efficiencies there that maybe you wouldn't notice if you yeah, you do try to pick one here, one there, one somewhere else.

Speaker 2: 24:51

The other thing, too, that I always encourage people to talk about is because we don't do property management. You know referring people to good property managers, and so I'll work in tandem with a good property manager, depending on the area that they're investing in, and say, hey, get their input on this area, because what you might find is there's a lot of tenant turnover in that area, or there's not a lot of tenant turnover in that area, and that might be an area you want to focus on. And so having a good property manager that can speak to what it's like managing a property like that, or tenants in that area, can really help you make good decisions too, and that's something that me, as an agent, I wouldn't know that to the same level. I have basic knowledge, but not to the level that a good property manager who's in the thick of it in those areas would have as well.

Speaker 1: 25:38

Yeah, correct. I mean it's experience and action they're telling you because they deal with it every day, right? Whereas like somebody who's looking from the bird's eye telling you how to do something that's never done it. It's like, hmm, how much of that's right you know.

Speaker 2: 25:53

Yeah, yeah. And then you're adding another place of value if you can have. You know you're helping them find and identify good properties and somebody who can help manage it really well. They're going to want to stick with you, right, and then you keep that client sticky to you in your area. Yep, absolutely. Have you ever heard the phrase? You're the average of the top five people that you hang around. Well, real estate agents, I'm excited to increase your five with you.

Speaker 2: 26:19

We're launching the Real Freedom Investor Agent Tribe to help you get educated and connect with others to build your real estate investing journey and also to help you along the way as you're working with real estate investors. So come, check it out on our website, realfreedomcom. Go to the store. We have a membership. We have a mastermind group and private coaching to help you stay accountable to your real estate investing goals and to make sure that you connect with like-minded people to accelerate your progress and to cheer you on along the way. Check it out, realfreedomcom. Click on the store, chris, for people that want to reach out to you, maybe invest in the Chicago area or just learn more about being an investor agent working with other investors. How can they do so?

Speaker 1: 27:03

Yeah, you can find me at thewildagent dawildagentcom, or look me up on TikTok or Instagram or Facebook. It's at the Wild Realtor on all platforms, so I'm real easy to find.

Speaker 2: 27:16

Awesome, yeah, and I was gonna say wrote down. So, as of this time, you're at 7,000 followers on Instagram and 10,000 on TikTok. So you've made a great, great inroads there of building an audience and entertaining an audience and keeping people sticky to you. So congratulations on all your success and best of luck as you continue to grow in the future.

Speaker 1: 27:35

I appreciate that, and you as well. It was a pleasure being on. I appreciate it. Like and share.