Kunal Lakhwani - Luxury Travel Hacking With Real Estate

What if your everyday spending could unlock business-class flights, luxury hotels, and unforgettable vacations—without spending more money or becoming a travel hacking expert? 

Kunal Lakhwani is the creator behind Rentals & Runways, who shares how he went from engineer and immigrant to mastering the art of travel hacking. He breaks down a simple, repeatable system for turning everyday purchases into premium travel experiences using credit card points and rewards. You'll learn how to choose the right credit cards, maximize everyday spending, and book flights and hotels that most people assume are only for the wealthy. Whether you're a real estate investor looking to make your travel budget go further or simply want to experience more of the world for less, this episode is packed with practical strategies you can start using right away.


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Transcript

Points Turn Hawaii Into Free Luxury

SPEAKER_01 0:00

We started looking and uh everything, as you know, in Hawaii is expensive. So that's when I realized that I have uh a big statue of points. Can I use this? So that was my very first redemption. I booked uh sixth night at the highest agency in Maui. Zero dollars out of market.

Mike Swenson 0:24

Welcome to the Real Freedom Show. We inspire you to pursue your passion to gain time and financial freedom through opportunities in real estate. I'm your host, Mike Swenson. Let's get some real freedom together. Everybody, welcome to another episode of Real Freedom, Real Estate Leverage Freedom, where we talk about different ways you can build time or financial freedom through opportunities in real estate. I'm your host, Mike Swenson. If you want to get started on your real estate investing journey, check out our website freedom through realestate.com. It's where we put all of our articles, blogs, episodes to help you inspire you to pursue something inside of real estate, whatever that might be, and to hopefully live some of the life you want on your terms. I'm super excited today because we've got a topic that I don't believe in five years of doing this that we've ever had a specific conversation around, and that is traveling with rewards and points and all that stuff through the expenses that you have in relation to investing in real estate. And so we've got Kunal here. Kunal uh actually is a client of mine in the past, he's invested here in Minneapolis and St. Paul, and so background immigrant came to the United States engineer, and you are using your real estate investing to generate credit card rewards and funding business class flights, hotels, and states through everything you do. You are on Instagram at rentals and runways, periods in between the words, talking about travel hacking. And so I'm so excited to hear what you have to say and share with us how you're able to do this. And so, canal, we're so excited to have you on the show.

SPEAKER_01 2:05

Thanks, Mike, for having me on. Like I said, we probably connected like four years back when I was looking to invest out of state, and you're both part of the same mastermind. I was exploring different markets, and main reason I chose the Twin Cities, Minnesota, was because of Mike. It was a pleasure to work with Mike, and we've had various conversations at length about investing in real estate, all the fun stuff. And uh, this is the first time we are in this setup where we are talking about something other than real estate uh today. Stay connected to real estate, but um, how do you get uh the benefits of investing in real estate? Is uh this is one of the ways that we'll talk about today.

From Tech Job To First Rental

Mike Swenson 3:01

So take take us back being in the US, being an engineer, and then why and how you got started investing into real estate? Because there's a ton of people who have W-2s that love real estate, and there's a ton of people, even more, that have no idea of anything how to do real estate. So just kind of how did you get plugged into the real estate world and kind of what were those things that it's excited you about the possibility of investing in real estate?

SPEAKER_01 3:25

I came to the US in 2014 as a student. Um, I did my master's here in Arizona State, um, and then got my full-time job in tech. So I started working, and then first year the taxes hit. Um, oh half of my um earnings are gone because I was in California then. So California was taking 10%. The um federal taxes were also pretty high, like uh 30% or so. So like on paper, I thought I had made it when I um got um job in big tech. And and then when the tax year hit, I'm like, no, I have not made it. I need to do a lot more. Um so that's I think two years later is when I realized that I need to find ways how I can save on my taxes. And I started just googling, watching um videos on YouTube, and consistently real estate keep kept coming in. Um, that real estate is one of the ways how rich um save on taxes and possibly pay zero taxes. Because of how many laws there are about how you can depreciate assets, uh what uh breaks you can take in terms of uh saving on your taxes and so on. So um I started digging more into it and started learning about how to analyze a deal. And then uh because I was in California, I was um priced out of that market because I'd just started uh working two, three years back. So and looking back now, I think I could have still made it work, but I did not have enough knowledge at the time. So I just said I need 20 to 25 percent down. I don't have that amount for a one million home, so I'm not gonna be able to buy, and then eventually I realized that I can invest out of state long distance. So I after being in analysis paralysis for like almost two, two and a half years, I bought my first property uh during COVID, peak of COVID, like March 2020, because I was already under contract before COVID hit. So um either I could lose my earnest money or just roll with it, so I decided to continue forward. Um so I bought my first single family in Indiana and I still have it. Um because it was week of COVID, I could not look at the property before I bought it. So I bought it sight and seen, very first property ever. And it's been almost five years now. Uh actually more. I still have not looked at the property. Yeah. Yeah. So that that's like a funted build there. But that's what got me into real estate. And then the next few properties were with Mike in the twin cities because um in Indian I while I was able to buy a property, I was not able to build my network there to continue to buy, and that's why I was uh in this group to find the right market and the right folks to help me invest out of state. And the next few properties were then in twin cities, and then uh we decided to move from the Bay Area because California was just super expensive, and uh a few other reasons, but eventually we landed in Colorado, and the last few years I've tried to invest here um a few different ways. Started with the House Act, tried to um flip, and um yeah, so right now I'm focusing in state and uh continue to hold some of those long-term rentals out of state.

Mike Swenson 7:31

It's interesting because you've done a lot of different things between single family, multifamily, short-term rentals, house hacking flips, um, kind of everything, and in different states. So uh kind of a smattering of a lot of different things all over the place. Cool. I mean, quickly, you kind of realized you know that there's some benefits out there that you know, we talk about some tax benefits of investing in real estate and obviously the other things over time. But for you, you you found a way where you can kind of fund other things in your life through all the expenses and kind of everything that you're running through your business to be able to, you know, kind of find points and

Discovering Points Value Beyond Cash Back

Mike Swenson 8:10

rewards. So so kind of talk about how that seed was planted for you in terms of you know how you decided to pursue this and and make this a focus.

SPEAKER_01 8:19

So I guess I'll go back again to my time as a student. That's when I got my first few credit cards on the personal side. Um at that time, the focus was uh mostly to get some cash back. So like if I get $100 after spending $500, I'll be like, yeah, this is a win. I need a laptop for $600. I can uh put put it on this new credit card and meet the sign-up bonus, get $100 off the laptop. So that's that's how it started during the days as a student. And then when I joined full-time, my credit got better. And I a new card had just come out at the time from Chase, the Sapphire Reserve, which was like uh my shiny object. And as you can tell by my story so far, I have a shiny object syndrome. Like as Mike said, I've done so many different things in within real estate. Like every property has a story where I've pivoted like three, four different times, tried a few different strategies, eventually something stuck or didn't stick, but continued forward. So I have that uh syndrome. And this card was a shiny object at the time because it was a metal card, uh, gave a lot of points, uh, had a lot of benefit. So I got that. Um, and that's when I uh found out about the points guy blog. Um, and that's when I learned that the points have a lot more value than how I am using it. I am mostly using it for cashback, and uh cashback gives me one cent per point, which means if I earned 10,000 reward points, then those are worth hundred dollars as cashback. But the points guy introduced me to the idea that you can possibly transfer points out and use it to redeem for flights and um hotels where you might be able to earn two cents per point or sometimes even more. So that's when I that's when the seed was planted. So I started earning points with that new credit card I just got. I did not know the best ways to redeem, so I continued to hold those those points and not redeem it for a really long time. And 2021, right after COVID, um I did my first redemption ever. So we got married right before COVID, so we could not take a honeymoon trip. So um, as the travel opened up after COVID, we were like, okay, now um we we are able to at least travel domestically, international was still uh restricted. What is the best place in the US for a honeymoon? Simple answer, Hawaii.

Mike Swenson 11:26

So I thought you were gonna say Minnesota, but you know, I know I know you didn't come to Minnesota, so I mean it was December. Second best, second best after Hawaii. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 11:34

We started looking and uh everything that's when I realized that I have uh a big stash of points. Can I use this? So that was my very first redemption. I booked uh sixth nights at the highest agency in Maui, zero dollars out of pocket. Um, I was able to use um, I think at the time it was 25,000 in the world of higher points um per night. So six nights that's 150,000 points. I think I had 300,000 points earned from the Chase FI reserve I got a couple years back. So I was able to use 50% of it towards uh this stay. And I still had to pay for my flights then. I think that was my last time I paid for domestic flights back in 2021, because after that I was like, I need to figure out how to fund this entire trip, not just my stay. So um that's when I got back to work. Um, once we came back from that trip, my wife was uh intrigued as well because she's like, yeah, uh, if we can do this more often and we can stay at these luxury resorts, regardless of honeymoon, even, uh, because it's it's just like we are not it's not costing us much, then uh the way we travel changes. She became the P2, as we call it, in the points and miles world. P2 is uh player two, and I'm the P1, player one, uh planning on the trips and uh finding the best ways to redeem rewards, and the P2 comes along to make the trip fun.

Mike Swenson 13:22

So

Using Real Estate Spend To Earn Faster

Mike Swenson 13:23

kind of talk about obviously you kind of shared the the benefit of what we can have, right? We can have some flights, we can have the hotels, and and not just regular hotels, but luxury hotels. So talk about how the real estate piece kicks into that. And so I know like my questions are you know, we have a personal card and then we have a business card. And obviously, before we knew all this was options, I never gave it any thought in terms of which ones we've signed up for. So we've had these same cards for years and years and years, and you know, just kind of done what you said in terms of, oh, we've earned some points, and so we'll cash them in, or we'll, you know, book a flight here, there. So talk about like just kind of how you're able to use that in terms, like what expenses? Um, I'm assuming it's pretty much everything you're running through cards, but do you have LLCs for the businesses? Do you use personal stuff? And kind of how did you start to build out kind of which cards and what cards and how you're using them?

SPEAKER_01 14:20

So continuing the story further from uh 2021 after the Hawaii trip, as I started to learn more about cards and focus uh not just on redemption, but also earning, because now if I'm redeeming points, like I almost burned my 50% of my stash already. So I need a system to keep earning points. And there's a term in the points in my community called um earn and burn. So keep earning points and keep burning them as well. Don't hoard points, which was the mistake I did early on. Um I hoarded the 300,000 points for like almost five years before I used them for the first time. The reason is the points get devalued. The programs will start to ask more points, the value of the points will diminish. So as you earn, just burn it and have a system where you can keep earning. So as I was building that system for myself, I realized that I need access to business cards to earn faster. Personal cards are good, they have lower minimum spends. Um but it's probably 50% of the cards. And if you need access to the remaining 50%, you need access to those business cards. Um typically for business cards, the spend is a lot higher, but you also have uh decent spend on your business if you're especially into real estate. Um and side note, as we have been talking about taxes, the annual fee for these business credit cards can be tax deductible depending on your situation. So while annual fees are an expense, they can be deducted and you can take benefit off those cards and earn the point. Um so that's where I learned um about business cards, started looking into it, and I also realized that one of the major benefits of a business card is that a lot of them provide 0% uh APR, which means you can have access to free money for about a year. And in real estate, we need access to capital to pay for expenses, to pay for our rehabs, and you might also have a plan to get that money back as you refinance or as you sell the property. So you are getting about 12 months to 15 months in some cases to uh gain access to a couple thousand dollars to uh use it towards your business spend without paying any interest. So while today we are talking more about points and miles, um, this is just a benefit of getting a business card and paying that small amount of annual fee $95 to in some cases it is high to $900. Um don't be afraid of paying that annual fee because the benefits outweigh the annual fee as long as you have a system and you are um smart about it.

Business Cards And Personal Credit Impact

Mike Swenson 17:44

Now, talk a little bit about uh with business cards um and and obviously impacting personal credit. Um, you know, for people that are curious, you know, hey, we've got X number of cards, your credit score. Some people care about their credit score, some people don't as much. Um but then two, with yeah, when you're opening business cards, some have that impact or pull personal credit. So kind of talk about that piece of running business cards and how that impacts um you guys on the personal side or what what you've been able to do with that.

SPEAKER_01 18:15

Yeah, so it definitely uh there is an impact on the personal credit. But the good thing about business cards is a lot of business cards don't report to your personal credit. So while they pull your personal credit and it affects your uh credit for the short period because of the pull, um, it is not as high of an impact because the cards are not showing up on your personal report, which means if you're holding a balance for that 0% APR, then you're not taking a hit on your personal credit. Going back to your previous question about um applying it in an LNC versus personal, um, most of the times I have applied as a personal entity. So you can apply as a sole property where you choose the category. Um I choose real estate. I've heard that real estate is one of the most difficult categories to get approved for a credit card. So it depends on what kind of business you are in. If you have a media business, um you can pick that. If you are, of course, in real estate, then definitely pick that. And um you you do have to define the business income on your report. So typically they will ask about um total income, business income, business expense uh that you expect per year. Um and all of that goes into your application as uh a personal soul prompt. If you have an LLC and would like to apply through an LLC, you can enter your EIN as well. And um, I like I said, I just try to keep it simple. Uh build a system that works. For me, the system is apply as a sole prop writer, and then uh during bookkeeping, I figure out how to uh take care of those fees and apply the expenses to the right property, to the right entity, and so on. Um so be mindful of uh credit cards that do report to your personal credit, though. There are a few of those. So as you apply, and the rules keep changing. So I'm not wanting to name cards here because once in a while they will change a rule where some card will start reporting to your personal credit. Um may even start not reporting to your personal credit. So before you apply, just Google search. It's uh there are a lot of blogs out there talking about this. So you will easily find an answer. And they are you probably don't even need to go through those blogs. They will it will just give you an answer.

Mike Swenson 21:01

Give you an AI. So then just to clarify quick, so let's just say here we are today, the day we're recording this, and tomorrow I want to apply for a new card. I'm I'm Googling it, and then I'm probably looking for something within the last month or so. Because you said if if it changes, I don't want to go find an article from two years ago that says no, you're good, and then all of a sudden you find out you're not good. So something somewhat recent is is what you're looking for.

SPEAKER_01 21:26

Yes. Um, there are a few blogs that I would recommend. Um, there's a travel on points. Um, they are pretty good. They always have an article out if um something um has changed. So if they have not updated the article, you can be assured that uh the rule has not changed, and that's why the article is three years old. Another uh forum is Flyer Talk. FlyerTalk um is also a good resource, like if you're looking for Uh reviews on something or how to use a certain credit. If you're even going to a property like let's say uh a Conrad, and it is it is a pretty luxurious property, Conrad in Lexico, and you want to maximize your stay there. So you want to learn more about what benefits you will get because you are holding um a certain level in the program and you want to know if you'll maybe get a free breakfast or you have to shell out $50 for that breakfast buffet per person or not, and you want to budget that in. So Flyer Talk is a great resource for things like that.

Mike Swenson 22:44

Are

Minimum Spend Math And Fee Decisions

Mike Swenson 22:45

you looking to get started or scale in real estate investing but don't know your next step? Are you overwhelmed thinking about finding deals, analyzing deals, doing due diligence, and managing properties on top of it? Go ahead and push the easy button and invest with us. Real estate investing is what we do full time. We've done dozens of deals with hundreds of doors. We have the knowledge and experience to hand pick the best deals that most investors can find. We've got large off-market deals all the time where you can hopefully find returns and economies of scale that you just can't find on your own. The best thing is it's 100% passive to you for less capital than you put down trying to acquire a property on your own. Don't let this year go by before you don't make the leap, add to your portfolio, or you just did an analysis by browser. To find out more, visit freedomthroughrealestate.com and click on invest. You can book a call and learn more there. So get to scaling your portfolio now with us by your side. That's freedomthroughrealestate.com and click on invest. When you get those cards, I'm assuming kind of everything and anything you can can think of, you're you're running through the card.

SPEAKER_01 23:50

I try not to pay for the um extra charges, but once in a while it does make sense. So what I mean by that is if you are using your card for certain online portal or you're trying to pay a vendor, they may upcharge 3% because they are being charged that fee from the payment processor. Um that's when I analyze if it is worth it or not. If it's a new card and you are working towards a minimum spend, it typically is worth it. For example, if you go and get uh this Chase in business, um right now you have to spend $8,000 in the first four months to earn 100,000 Chase Ultimate Rewards Points. Um if I'm nearing the four-month mark, I'm already past three months and I have only been able to spend six thousand dollars in business spend so far. Um, and I have, let's say, an electrician bill because they had to replace the panel and they are charging me $2,500. Um they accept credit cards, but they will charge me 3% extra because of the payment processing. In that case, I think it is worth it because I'm able to meet the minimum spend, the the minimum $8,000. I'm already at $6,000, so I will uh be above $8,000, so that's great. I will earn hundred thousand in reward points, which are if you do it right, they are worth at least two thousand dollars at two cents per point. If you even use it for cashback, um, they are minimum worth $1,000. So you are still coming out ahead. Now, if I have had this card for three years already, and I'm only earning one percent in cashback, in that case, it is not worth putting that charge on this card because I'm paying three percent in processing fee and only earning one percent in cashback. So always weigh the the the benefit, and uh and this is where the system comes in. So I've personally done this as well. If I get a big deal like that, and this is a real example, I had to replace a panel because it was federal electric, and um, I realized it later when the buyer had the inspection, and we had to replace the panel within a week to uh move forward with that sale. And um I found the electrician who was available in the next two days to do the work, and I asked them, can you wait for the payment for uh about a week? And they were okay with that. So I quickly went on Chase.com, found the right card for me at the time, which was the United Business card, applied for it, called Chase and asked them if they can expedite the shipping. They agreed. So in two days, I had the card in my hand. By then the electric panel was replaced, and then I paid the 3% fee to pay the $2,500 bill, and that spend on the United business was only $4,000 within three months, and I already made more than 50% of that payment in the first week of having that card. So going back to the concept of earn and burn, this is the process. Like as you get a big bill, uh unexpectedly, or even better, if you're already expecting it, then apply sooner and find the right card that works for you. Always know what is the next card you're planning to apply. So if when you're in a situation where you have an emergency and you have to make a quick payment, you you're not researching at that time. You already know what card you need. Um just apply, call the bank. In most cases, they will expedite and uh ask the vendor if they can continue the job while you're uh getting the funds. And if it's a zero percent card, even better.

Mike Swenson 28:35

So now you'd mentioned about um kind of having you know having a card for three years and the benefits start to go down. So you're looking at consistently kind of opening new cards, opening new cards, and then closing the old ones so that you keep kind of staying ahead of the benefits curve that's that's out there with the new stuff?

SPEAKER_01 28:53

Yeah. And that is one of the benefits of a business card. If you close a personal card, then uh especially if you've held that personal card for a few years, then it will affect your credit because they have been reporting on your credit, and hopefully you're paying uh the due balance on time every single month, and you build a good credit with that card. Let's say you've been holding it for five years, and now if you close it, you your average age uh goes down, your positive credit history um gets affected, and that reduces your um your credit score. With business cards, because they don't report on your personal credit for a lot of times, like even if two, three years later you close the card, it does not affect your personal credit. Only when you apply it affects briefly, because uh typically um an application or a new credit pull uh affects your score by three to four points. No harm in closing those business cards if they're not meeting the needs.

Transferable Points And Best Starter Cards

Mike Swenson 30:05

Kind of finally, just to talk about quick what you're able to use them on, right? Like so you'd mentioned, you know, your your trips. So is there certain hotel chains, certain airlines that tend to work better? Obviously, if you've got a card that is specific to an airline, you're probably using that card, but kind of talk about the process of you know, maybe some ideas of of how to get more juice out of it as you're as you're using them.

SPEAKER_01 30:30

First thing I would say, always aim to earn transferable currency, which means uh earn something like Chase Ultimate Rewards or American Express membership rewards. Those are the points that are flexible. So you can transfer them, let's say you are flying United, you can transfer them to United. If you are staying at uh Hyatt, you can transfer them to Hyatt. But if you get a card like something issued by United or Southwest or even Hyatt, you are logged in. So the offer may seem interesting or even higher in in some cases, because a Chase card may give you 100,000 while uh World of Hyat card may give you 120,000 points. They typically don't offer that much, but just sake of uh explanation. The 100,000 points may be worth more than the 120,000 points you're getting with a particular program because these are not locked in. So that's my first uh tip, I would say. Um eventually you will run out of these transferable currency cards. So at that point, you will start looking at partner cards. But early, if you're early on, you have a lot of options. Uh, few cards that I would recommend on the business front, uh, the Chase Inc., they have three to four different types of cards. Um, I said three to four because there is one card in particular, the premiere, which does not earn points, it earns cashback. So it might seem like a good deal, but typically it's not if you're trying to maximize it. So focus on the remaining three: the ultimate uh cash and the preferred. These are all part of the ink family, and they have elevated offer going on right now while we are recording this in end of June 2026. But uh see if you're getting a good offer and apply. These typically offer 0% APR as well. Um if you hold a good credit. On the MX front, uh you have the my favorite is the Blue Business Plus. When I applied two or three years back, uh they were offering 50,000 American Express points for 15,000 in spend, but I was given 12 months for that spend. So um it came to about 1,1500 a month, and I'll be easily able to meet the spend. Um benefit of that card is it's zero annual free, so you don't have to worry about closing it. I I have it in my stash still after uh all these years, and um I pull it out once in a while. If that card offers 2% cash back, so if I'm trying to maximize on the cashback or getting the points on my spend, then I get 2% back on that. So that's a great card. Um, of course, there's the premium one for my platinum business and everything in between, depending on the spend you have coming in at the time and how you'll be able to maximize the benefits. Pick the card and a few examples of redemptions is I the last international trip I took was to my home country, India, to visit my family and friends there. And I flew uh business class both ways. From I had to take a repositioning flight. So repositioning flight is when you're you are not able to find a flight from your home airport, but a nearby domestic airport works for you. So in my case, my home airport is Denver. I could not find a flight out of Denver, but I found one from Chicago. So I took a repositioning flight from Denver to Chicago in domestic uh story for another day, probably, but I didn't pay for that flight, of course, because uh I flew Southwest and South Southwest has companion pass, and you can earn that pretty easily with just one Southwest business card. Um the card looks like and uh it's pretty simple to to run those. So after repositioning to Chicago, I took ANA, All Nippon, it's a Japanese airline. They have pretty good business class seats. I flew from Chicago to Tokyo in business class, and then connecting flight from Tokyo to New Delhi in India, all business class throughout. And one of the perks of flying business is of course the life flat seats at 35,000, 40,000 feet in the air. But and you get great food, great uh drinks, great service, everything. But the on-ground uh on-ground benefit is even better, in my opinion. Like you get quick check-in, you get lounge access. Typically the lounges are reserved for business and first-class flyers, so they are not as crowded. Um a lot of times you have access to uh a nap room, a shower. So you are getting on that flight fresh. You get six, eight hours of sleep if you are flying international, and you uh land super fresh as well. So no need no need to worry about jet lag or uh being tired from the flight. It's it's great to fly business. And once you fly business, like your life is ruined because you cannot do it any other way. Yeah. So that's why you need the system to earn and burn. Because once you taste the food and business class and um stay in these in these luxury resorts like the Conrad or the Waldorf, um, you can never go back to that motel, even though uh that cat tail may look great, but yeah, it's it's uh it's it's a different life out there.

Business Class Redemptions And Where To Connect

Mike Swenson 37:04

Awesome. Well, thank you so much for for coming on and sharing. Obviously, there's a lot more to learn um and a lot more details behind that. So, where where can people find you uh to connect with you and learn?

SPEAKER_01 37:15

Yeah, I talk about this stuff on Instagram at rentals and runways. Definitely reach out there uh if you have questions. I'm happy to help. Questions about what cuts to apply, how to redeem certain points if you are looking for a particular uh trip that you want to go to and you have uh stats of points, but do I know how to redeem the best way I can help with all that.

Mike Swenson 37:40

Awesome. Well, thank you so much for coming on and sharing your story and sharing your expertise. And yeah, if you're listening to this for sure, reach out, find and learn more. Because yeah, there's a there's a lot there that I can apply, and so I'm excited to dig in and learn more. And um, thanks so much and uh best of luck as you continue to do more and learn more and uh