Episode 33, Heidi Duncan, Asia Pacific Finance Director, Unispace

Heidi Duncan is APAC Finance Operations Director for Unispace a business revolutionizing the creation of the workplace. 

Heidi is a results-driven, energetic Finance executive with over 20 years of experience. Commencing her career in Big 4, she has worked for Chanel, Aldi, Dupont, Qantas and Flight Centre to name a few.

Heidi is CA and MBA qualified and a graduate of the Australian Institute of Company Directors.

With a passion for mentoring people and developing high-performing teams, Heidi has a charismatic and collaborative leadership style.

To contact Richard Holmes please call 0403 513 720 or reach out on richardh@hprconsulting.com. https://www.linkedin.com/in/richardholmesfinancerecruiter/

Transcript

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Please note that this has been transcribed by AI/Bots so there may be typos and the occasional strange things happening.

Richard Holmes

0:01

Welcome to the numbers people Podcast, where each week we're going to be speaking with some highly regarded senior finance professionals and create experts looking into the ins and outs of what makes finance people and their teams great. The podcast is proudly sponsored by HPR consulting a leading executive finance recruitment firm. I'm your host Richard Holmes. In today's episode, we welcome Heidi Duncan. Heidi is APAC finance Operations Director for unispace a business revolutionising the creation of the workplace. Heidi is a results driven energetic finance executive with over 20 years of experience. Commencing her career in the Big Four. She has worked for Chanel, Aldi, DuPont Qantas and Flight Center. Heidi is ca an MBA qualified and a graduate of the Australian Institute of company directors, a passion for mentoring people in developing high performing teams. Heidi has a charismatic and collaborative leadership style. Hi, Heidi, how are you?

Heidi Duncan

1:01

Hi, Richard. Great. How are you?

Richard Holmes

1:02

Not too bad at all. It's all good. And have you been yourself?

Heidi Duncan

1:06

Yeah, very well, thanks for joining the kind of lockdown challenges that I think we've all been facing, but trying to find some positivity in that and taking some advantages of things I normally don't get to do

Richard Holmes

1:17

fails, we touched on before we start this recording, we've just learned to be grateful for what we have. And the thing with having that light at the end of the tunnel. like to know what before we know it Fingers crossed. I've known about it for a number of years in the Australian market, your reputation is fantastic. I've only ever heard the things about you. I think Ukraine is fantastic. listeners will get a lot out of this conversation. And would you like to tell us more.

Heidi Duncan

1:40

So I started 20 something years ago in accounting and before I was an undergrad at the time, I had no idea what I was doing, but decided to start with a wire and worked full time while I finished uni part time. So I think that was a really good start, actually, because it gave me that kind of focus about what work was about, I was able to kind of, you know, look at various different things. I worked in corporate finance restructuring. So I was exposed to a whole lot of different industries and people and all sorts of things that are very, I made where, I guess I wasn't experienced. But I quickly got thrown into that. One of the highlights, I guess, in my early days was being a part of the answered administration. So in September 2001. You know, I got a call from Arthur Andersen at the time where I was and they sort of said pack for three weeks, go to Melbourne to wind this airline up. I was there for about 16 months. So as a young 20 something year old, it kind of really taught me a lot. But from there, I kind of worked through various industries. And I did a couple of roles in the travel space with Flight Center and Carnival cruises and cuantas. enjoyed that time. And then probably my next biggest, longest role was at DuPont global finance company. And yeah, I had two roles there as financial controller for ANZ, and then finance director for ANZ for four years each. And so yeah, at the end of eight years, I felt like I'd accomplished quite a bit, which was really interesting, and things like, you know, centralization to China and India, or certain finance functions, and really just learning about different cultures and traveling a whole lot more. And yeah, I was really, really grateful for that experience. So at the end of my time there, I then did a couple more roles with LD and Chanel, as CFO. And then just this year, I started as APAC, Finance Director for yeast base, which is a great organization that does corporate fit out. So design strategy, construction of workplaces. And of course, at the moment where we're obviously seeing significant change with this disruptive environment. And yeah, so it's interesting looking at, you know, how the workplace landscape might change as a result of COVID. And what people are intending to do with their space going forward. That's where I'm at at the moment.

Richard Holmes

3:58

Excellent. And just listening to you then Heidi, having the study career in chartered and by exposure to all those different companies and with working in trouble earlier on, were you conscious of working in a particular industry, because you worked in a few industries now and had good experiences with we will always kind of open to it?

Heidi Duncan

4:14

Yeah, I think I was definitely open to not the industry so much is really focusing on the culture of the organization and who I was going to working with. So for me, it doesn't matter whether you're selling, you know, travel or consulting services, or corporate fitouts. It's really about what value I think that you can add to the organization and how you feel as part of that organization, and what role you're playing. So if I look at, you know, the various experiences over time, the roles that I was given the opportunity to do were great, because mostly they stretched me each time. And I think the lesson I learned there was, you know, just do it, people won't offer you something if they don't think you can, and I think there's a bit of that imposter syndrome thing where we, we kind of say, Oh, well what if I'm not good enough and what if I can't do And you look at the 100 points in the job description say, Well, I haven't done that I said, but the point, you know, at the end of the day, you pretty good. And you've just got to realize that and you get in there and have a guy. So yeah, industry didn't worry me. And yeah, as I said, I just wanted to know, how can I make a difference? And how can I succeed in the role? And I guess that's one of the questions that I always ask, you know, in any potential kind of, you know, interview type situation is, well, what do you see success looking like in this role? And how could I play a part in that,

Richard Holmes

5:28

reflecting again, on your career with that move, which was initially wanted to say three weeks and he went on for 16 months, I guess at that stage, your career, what a great experience for you,

Heidi Duncan

5:37

it was kind of, on a social level, something completely different, because I just had to throw myself into it and go, and for work level, you know, it was Australia's biggest insolvency at the time. And, you know, we know it was going to happen, we're trying to sell the airline, we're trying to get it up and running. Again, it was an Australian icon. So it's quite exciting to kind of be a part of that journey. And that team and, and I just learned so much in that process. And you know, and people that I still know today from my time back then 21 years ago, so I feel really grateful.

Richard Holmes

6:06

What advice would you give to someone wanting to pursue a career like yours,

Heidi Duncan

6:10

it really comes back to again, just believing in yourself. And it's really easy to tell yourself why you can't do something. But you know, what, have a go. And if it doesn't work out, what's the worst thing that can happen, you know, you can do something else. But I really think that I wouldn't be where I am today, had I not been able to say yes to some of those opportunities. And there was one story where I took the role at Flight Center as financial controller, and again, I was 23 or something. You know, in the first week, my boss, who was this great guy who I still really admire To this day, he said to me, oh, how do you know you've got this role that you've taken? And that's all good. He said, but we've got this other role. What do you think about doing that? I said, Oh, okay, what is it? He said, Oh, well, it's basically, you know, moving all of the brands, the different corporate brands into one centralized location and setting up a corporate travel business model. So that, you know, we put people in combined teams, and we then sell that service offering to the general managers of each of the corporate brands in Flight Center, and we go from there, and I was like, okay, so I kind of I took that plunge, not knowing really anything about anything, but it was a really big learning curve for my leadership journey. And I had a great team of about, I think, 30 odd people at the time there who really just, you know, kind of taught me that I had to be agile, I had to be nimble, I had to kind of go, Okay, we've got a problem here, let's fix it. Let's go with the flow. Yeah, so I think it was that and then from there, I actually decided to take a role of Flight Center in Melbourne in retail. So I was back in Melbourne again, but this time, it was permanent. And I actually made a big mistake, and that was that I thought I wanted to be in an operational, you know, commercial track role out of finance, when actually I didn't, and this retail role didn't suit me at all. But you know, I did it thinking that at that stage, I could do anything and you know, it was all gonna be okay. And within the 12 months, I was back in Sydney, you know, doing finance type stuff again, but you know, I had to learn the lesson the hard way. And that was, you know, something that I did, and I'm perfectly happy that I tried, you've touched

Richard Holmes

8:11

it a couple of times, you talked about believing in yourself and just doing it and I think that experience, I mean, this I think is sort of a cliche, you got to fail to succeed, but you just got to give it a go. It's great to hear earlier in your career you were given those opportunities as well. Knowing what you know now Heidi, you've worked for all these amazing companies, what would you What would you say to your younger self? If you're a 20 year old? How do you say what do you do?

Heidi Duncan

8:34

I think I was pretty harsh on myself in the younger years and I think you know, just in the last few years probably I've really kind of thought to myself actually you're not too bad. And I used to for many years think all you know you're just lucky you're just lucky that you've got that role and you're just lucky that you've achieved that and I've started to realize that that's not really the case. The case is that you've worked hard and you've earned it and I'd really love to go back and tell myself hey you know you're good enough as you are and you don't need to be so critical of yourself and make things so difficult. I think I took life so seriously in my career so seriously and you know, everything was about achievement, achievement achievement, and now I kind of go you know, what's really important I think and this code situation have probably made us all reevaluate a little bit about you know, where are we where we want to be and if we died today, you know, would we be happy with our program? And you know, just not in a person not in a business context alone but also in a personal context so yeah, I really say to my younger self ego enough, go with that Be kind to yourself and keep going.

Richard Holmes

9:36

Go first name hidey hole we put so much pressure on ourselves in the 20s we have this illusion of what good looks like and when obviously you get older you just think it's nonsense. Why do we Why do we think like that, but I guess he used to run it up with people your own age, and then that's how it works. But yeah, it's, I completely agree. Just don't see yourself as serious and be kind to yourself. And again, touching the you've worked with him from time Companies Heidi culture, too much in the culture of the businesses you work for is being excellent. What's that mean to you?

Heidi Duncan

10:06

Yeah, culture to me is really about, I guess, how you feel in the organization, how you feel as part of the team, how you feel that your contribution is valued or not. I think it's a little bit, a little bit of everything, it's a bit of recognition, it's a bit of camaraderie of people, and how, if I look at, you know, probably one of the cultures that I've really admired the most over my career, it's probably been defined for an organization that was 200 years old, you know, back when I was there, the culture was really strong, and it was about safety and ethics and people. And I remember on the very first day, we had a fire drill, you know, whatever. And we were walking down the fire stairs, and everything was, I've never seen this before on an organization, but it was like, Oh, you know, hold the handrails and all this kind of stuff that I was like, Oh, okay. But it was the first organization really, that I'd seen that we've bought values, everything we did was really all about ethics, and people and safety. So I kind of look at that as a bit of the flag masked for something that looks good in culture. And then I've seen some other organizational cultures that I kind of go, yeah, that's not really aligned to me. And I think I realized the importance over time of just how much culture plays a part. And if we're not aligned with that culture, then success is really difficult. And so I think we have to be true to ourselves and make that decision about, you know, how does the culture in the place that we're in, or the place that we're thinking about going to align with our personal values? And you know, am I going to be suitable to fit their

Richard Holmes

11:33

culture is a really interesting one, isn't it? I do think with what your company unispace are doing in terms of that interpersonal collaboration, our workspaces have changed. And I think, on the back of COVID, it's changed in definitely, hasn't it in terms of how we get people together? But yeah, I think it comes down to leadership and the people, doesn't it? It certainly does, yeah, wonderful person in their in place in hell falls apart, like working in the recruitment industry, you see companies that are fantastic cultures, personally, the top changes, and it changes overnight. If you go back in time, Heidi, one would be the one thing you'd change,

Heidi Duncan

12:05

I don't think I'd change anything. Because I think that everything I have done, I have learned from every experience that, you know, I've had I've learned from, and you know, even the ones that, you know, I say when I made a mistake, and that kind of thing. It's like, you know, I got something out of that, though, and I grew to be the person that I am today based on those experiences. So I wouldn't change anything. There's one thing that I'm learning at the moment, and that is that I've always worked for really, really large organizations. And this is the first time that I've really worked for a smaller organization. So unispace, we have about 650 employees globally, and we work across about 28 countries, so much more than any of the other organizations. And what I'm finding now is that it's really, really interesting having breadth over an organization at that size, because I'm exposed to all sorts of different challenges that I wasn't in other organizations. And you know, so one day, I might be working on a, you know, a joint venture in India, and the next day, I'm working on, you know, Center of Excellence being set up and designed somewhere else. And there's all sorts of different challenges and things to learn. So, one thing that I found interesting is that, you know, it doesn't always have to be a really, really large organization to get that kind of excitement from

Richard Holmes

13:16

when you look at your career, there's a lot of candidates who want to work for the larger corporate, the blue chip companies, and it is really case by case isn't it, there's so many different opportunities, it's really what stage our company going through, like we do with a lot of smaller companies these days, and some of the opportunities in the culture they have just fantastic were given the autonomy to just go ahead and do your job. And you don't have that red tape that politics bureaucracy to fight against. And, and we've seen that a lot, but it's very much a personal thing, isn't it? It's what we look for. And again, going back to culture, it's the challenge of it. I think, some people like that kind of routine of culture know exactly where they stand. While some companies are just open, create yourself nothing. But culture is going to be hard. I mean, with working from home, like how do you create a culture when you're at home? It's hard, isn't it? You know,

Heidi Duncan

14:01

and I've talked to lots of different people over different times, you know, during these few months about you know, what we do, we just had our team meeting a moment ago, and whenever the same place anyway, because, you know, my team is in Singapore, India, New Zealand, you know, Australia, so we're all kind of over the place anyway, you know, we got on the phone, or we got on teams a little while ago, and we all had a chat, we all share what we're up to. And, you know, sometimes we do that at different times of the day, I guess, to kind of have different experiences. I was on a another call this morning, and I heard someone say, Oh, you know that what we try and do is, you know, we have a beer on a Friday afternoon at four o'clock, and we have a kind of meeting around that rather than just, you know, a normal midday kind of thing that's during the week. And I thought, yeah, that's not a bad idea, actually, to change the setting up a little bit. That's one of the really important things, but I think it's having empathy, I think around, you know, just not really knowing what people are going through and how they're being affected by this current situation. You know, I think when we come into the office or the studio, as we call it, you know, we all kind of have that personalized interaction with the people that we work with then. And all of a sudden, you're kind of stuck in a home kind of situation where you can see nobody all day if you didn't need to kind of thing apart from the teams calls that you're on. So I think it's, yeah, it's changed. But I'm really just taking the I guess the advantage of what we've got right now. And that is really to spend more time with my children that I haven't been able to do as much in the past, you know, at three o'clock each day, I diarize an hour to spend with them, when they finish school, that doesn't happen every day, it has to be full, because I might have something on but I've kind of seen that as you know, we can go for a bushwalk at that time, we can, you know, play some Lego, we can do whatever we want to do. But I've just found that you know what, like, this morning, my first meeting started at 7am. My last meeting the start tonight at 9pm. And that's fine. And in between, you know, we can kind of be flexible. So you know, it's all Okay, fine.

Richard Holmes

15:59

It's it's choice is okay. And it's good that we've adapted to think I'm moving away from this kind of nine to five, where it's work on your terms, like some people work better in the morning, some people work better in the evening. Thank you. we've, we've seen across the board, a lot of companies just adapt, which is fantastic. And in talking about that, going back to finance, Heidi, you've you've always seen finance evolve a lot. What do you think? I mean, with obviously the advent of video meetings between the parent what what do you think the future of finance looks like?

Heidi Duncan

16:27

It's more and more and more about the people and the ability to communicate and relate and adapt. I think, you know, 20 years ago, it was, you know, important that we have these technical capabilities, which obviously is still really important. But I think the thing now is that you can't have the technical capabilities without the people skills. And I think the expectation at a minimum is that we are able to communicate efficiently with with our organizations and the people within them. And, you know, to talk about business strategy, and how we kind of move forward and how we can add value as finance to other parts of the business. I think it's not enough anymore just to be able to say, oh, here's the numbers and be reactive, I think we need to be a productive part of the equation and really look at, you know, hey, I'm a part of this strategy, I'm a part of developing the strategy, I'm a part of executing the strategy. And how do we make that happen in between, and I think we've got a really interesting skill set and finance people to, to bring to the table, because it's something that other people in our organization often don't have here. If we sit at our executive table, and we look at finance compared to the other people's skill sets. If we don't have those finance inputs to give, and we can't communicate that effectively, then we're not going to be able to move ahead. So I think, you know, yeah, someone, there's a book that I'm reading at the moment, actually, and they talked about, you know, the CFO being the heart of the organization and near the arteries, and that sort of thing, and I really reflected on that. And so yeah, that's really true, because we are that the connectivity type piece, especially if you look back in the COVID kind of situation, and all the things we've had to deal with in terms of, you know, downtrend or app turns in, and as it may be, depending on industry, and, and you know, how we've been able to manage our workforce and how we've been able to, you know, look at all sorts of legislative requirements and that sort of thing. Finance has really been key to all of that. So, yeah, I think we've done a pretty interesting job to learn and adapt to that

Richard Holmes

18:21

you touch and learn as well how leads become that value added partner. I've had a number of conversations where even just four or five years ago, they were battling to get into meetings, and now meetings don't happen, if not that I got here late 2005. And just in that short period of time, it's amazing what what I've seen. But it's good, though. It's exciting. Finance, people want to tell people I work in finance, like, Where do you think he gets a bad rap? I think it's changing, I think, communicate? Well, you're in to your numbers in your data. And so it's gonna be fascinating, I think over the next 10 years where technical accounting will be automized ai robots. But if you can communicate, there's going to be so many opportunities for people out there.

Heidi Duncan

19:03

I think we don't even know yet what opportunities are going to be I think that it's still being developed and still happening. So I was always told, oh, you're not you're not the kind of traditional finance person, are you? And I'm like, Well, no, not really. And I think that's important because, you know, what is the stereotypical finance person these days? I don't think it is what we thought it was.

Richard Holmes

19:21

If you have one message to tell the world, what would it be, follow your

Heidi Duncan

19:25

passion, really evaluate what you want in life. Think about, you know, your long term goals and they don't have to be, you know, what you're doing right now or what you kind of feel like you're locked into and, and look at what's possible, take some risks, and really just, you know, again, be kind to those around you be kind to yourself, and know that there's a balancing in life of work and otherwise, and, you know, make sure that at the end of your life, you have achieved what you really wanted to achieve from a balanced perspective, which I think I haven't done very well in the past. It sounds a bit harsh. Well, you know, I think now I'm changing it. That's the thing that I'm kind of going, what does it mean? And I really wish that, you know, in some ways, someone had said that to me earlier as well, because, you know, I was always on a journey to achieve and achieve and achieve. And now it's like, you know, what, what else do I want to achieve? Not necessarily, you know, being the next CFO or CEO, CEO of every organization. So I

Richard Holmes

20:24

love your point about following your passion, the amount of people I speak to who are working in companies have got like no affiliation to or the they're not proud of working for those companies. It's a we'll move to a company, he wouldn't work for auditing, finance, Jim, realistically, as well. I mean, we're obviously more conservative, more risk averse. That's the nature. And that's a good thing, but just take some risks. Again, when I'm talking with people, it's just too scared to move, just give it a go. What's the worst that can happen? Kind of?

Heidi Duncan

20:51

Yeah, the only thing I'd say is really just get back a bit. You know, I mean, I think it's great to help people around you. And if you've had a great finance career, there's someone who's kind of just developing nobody available to them to have a chat to them, have a coffee with them. If you can remember that, you know, you were there once and you know, it kind of just helps to have someone to talk to you sometimes. And I think that's, you know, kind of something that I want to keep doing as I go through it and kind of understand how I can make an impact both at work and otherwise,

Richard Holmes

21:21

without as well highly mentors. I mean, it's definitely becoming a good thing. Earlier in our careers. We didn't know what that word meant. That's right. In mid 20s, I never even heard of a mentor. But hey, look, Heidi, I think you've been a great guest. I think it'd be really insightful as I thought you would be in it. It's really good to hear your story.

Heidi Duncan

21:37

I think so much for having me, Richard, I really appreciate it.

Richard Holmes

21:40

No problem and take care. Well, it will have to be on the podcast again soon.

Heidi Duncan

21:44

Thanks. Hhave a great day.