What's Next, Los Angeles? with Mike Bonin
Los Angeles is at a turning point. We are living in a defining moment. What happens next is up to us. Over the past few years, problems and challenges have shaken this city -- and tremendous opportunities for change have presented themselves. How do we rise to this moment and emerge a better place to live? What will it take to create a more just and a more equitable community? Working together, how are we going to create a stronger, forward-thinking Los Angeles? Mike Bonin, writer, teacher, progressive activist and former City Councilmember, looks at the issues and problems facing Los Angeles, examines ideas, and talks with the people who will lead us to a brighter future.
Produced in partnership with LA Forward.
What's Next, Los Angeles? with Mike Bonin
Prop 4: Combatting Climate Change
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The signs of the climate crisis are everywhere – and it is clear we are not doing enough to combat it. That’s why Proposition 4 is on your ballot. We discuss what is in the proposition, and why it is important for the state of California, and the future of neighborhoods. My guest is State Senator Ben Allen, who proposed creating the bond measure and putting it on the ballot this year. Allen represents the 24th DIstrict, including most of the LA County coast and Santa Monica Mountains. He chairs the Senate Environmental Quality Committee and co-chairs the Legislative Environmental Caucus.
Additional Info:
Official Voter Guide
Legislative Analyst report
CalMatters
LA Times endorsement
Ballotpedia entry
Yes on 4 website
Howard Jarvis Taxpayers Assn argument against Prop 4
LA Forward Voter Guide
What's Next, Los Angeles? is produced and hosted by Mike Bonin, in partnership with LA Forward.
The signs of the climate crisis are everywhere, and it is evident we are not doing enough to combat it. That is why Proposition 4 is on your ballot. We will discuss it on this episode of What's Next Los Angeles. Hi, everybody, and welcome. This is Mike Bonn, and thank you so much for joining me. For years, environmentalists and climate activists have been sounding the alarm, warning of climate catastrophe, and demanding that the government do more to respond to the crisis. In California, they had high hopes two years ago when Governor Gavin Newsom announced the California climate commitment with a spending package of over fifty billion dollars. But he trimmed that back by ten billion this year due to the state's budget problems. So advocates went to the state legislature asking them to place a general revenue bond on the November ballot. Lawmakers did so, and Proposition 4 is for your consideration. It would allow the state to borrow up to $10 billion to respond to climate change. The money would be spent on safe drinking water, drought and wildfire prevention, natural resource restoration, clean energy initiatives, and projects to protect communities from extreme heat. It is supported by Clean Water Action, Calfire Firefighters, National Wildlife Federation, the Nature Conservancy, and lots of others. The only formal opposition is from the Howard Jarvis Taxpayer Association. Joining me today to discuss Proposition 4 is State Senator Ben Allen, who proposed creating the bond measure and putting it on the ballot this year. Senator Allen represents the 24th District, which includes most of the LA County coast and Santa Monica Mountains. He chairs the Senate Environmental Quality Committee and co-chairs the Legislative Environmental Caucus. All right. Senator Ben Allen, thanks for joining me. And what's next, Los Angeles? It's so good to be here, Mike. Good to see you. And uh congratulations to you and your wife. Uh proud parents of a second child.
SPEAKER_00Yes, yes. It's a lot of fun. Uh, you know, not particularly restful experience, but uh, but she's a great little girl, and and um it's it's it's it's it's a lot of fun. She's really sweet. That's awesome. Very happy for you.
SPEAKER_01Um so proposition four. Uh I just got my ballot book in the mail. So the official title right in front of me, authorizes bonds for safe drinking water, wildlife prevention, and protecting communities and natural lands from climate risks. Um, before we get into what it does, let's start with defining the problem that you're trying to solve with proposition four.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Well, Mike, we know that climate change is a uh is an inexorable force that is really impacting our entire planet. We've already been seeing how much it's been impacting California, both in terms of wildfires and drought and sea level rise and flooding and all of this extreme weather. And we also know that we can do some things today, put in place some investments now that will make life significantly better for people in the future. And so this is ultimately about putting in some significant investments, though, though in the grand scheme of things, actually pretty modest. Because if you hear the estimate, I mean that there's some folks out there that estimate that the annual cost of climate change is going to be something like $100 billion a year by later in the century, which is hard to even get your head around as a concept. But even if it's uh uh even if it's a half of that, it's still a massive, massive cost. So, what are some things we can do now that will help to make life better in the future? And in the end of the day, this is about significant investments in our our drinking water, our water system. So clean drinking water, safe drinking water, water recycling, uh groundwater recharge, uh, those sorts of efforts. And then a significant portion of funding uh to go into wildfire prevention and make us more resilient to fight fires. Then there's some smaller parts of the bond that have to do with um with with with land uh preservation, with sea level rise, with clean energy. But the most significant parts of the bond are in the areas of water and fire.
SPEAKER_01So uh climate crisis, sustainability, uh uh uh all the stuff we're suffering from and seeing every day is the problem. The the proposed solution here is a a $10 billion bond. Uh, and what specifically does it do?
SPEAKER_00So it sets aside money for uh for a variety of kind of big infrastructural projects that will put in place investments now to make our system work better in the future. So as I say, uh probably the most significant portion is in is in the space of water. And it's all about trying to strengthen our water infrastructure. And so that's everything from uh money to reduce uh flood risk and protect local communities from the risks of flood. Uh, there's money to restore river parkways and urban river streams and watersheds for desalinization, for brackish desalination, which will help our groundwater systems within our coastal areas that will increasingly be relying on groundwater uh for use. Uh, there's money for water conservation in urban areas as well. Um, as they say, significant portions of funding to help with groundwater recharge and water recycling, which are two massive needs here in the LA area. Uh so that, so there's so as I say, near about almost $4 billion of the $10 billion bond focused on safe drinking water, drought, flood, water resilience programs. Then there's a uh $1.5 billion for wildfire prevention and forest resilience projects. And there's a new focus on prevention in wildland urban interface areas where there's the most risk and cost and danger. So it's about uh about kind of nature-friendly vegetation management, uh helping homeowners and public buildings become more fire resistant. And so it's uh and beefing up our wildfire response, but in a in a more environmentally friendly way than has been done in the past. And then beyond that, uh sea level rise funding uh for both sea level rise and coastal resilience projects. Uh there's money to uh expand access to parks and outdoor spaces, uh, there's uh smaller pockets of money for extreme heat mitigation, uh, for biodiversity programs to restore and conserve natural habitats, uh, a small pot of funding for climate smart agriculture, and then uh and then a chunk of money for clean air and clean energy infrastructure. It's a bit of a, you know, these are a lot of different things, of course. And, you know, this is a the product of a political process. Uh, you know, in the end of the day, part of why I got involved with this in the first place, Mike, is because previous attempts had become such a grab bag of Christmas tree of different special interest needs. Uh, and and it really got ugly. And I think they were justifiably panned by the editorial boards. You know, I'm I'm uh while I I certainly prefer some line items of this bond over others, uh, in the end of the day, I actually I think we were able to produce a pretty clean bond given all of the different interests involved in this topic, uh, that is that is going to be hitting upon uh the the biggest issues associated with climate change resilience and adaptation. Uh now let me just say $10 billion in the grand scheme of things is is a is a very modest amount of money. We had to, uh I know it sounds like a lot, right? But if you figure our annual budget is you know $300 billion, I mean, you know, it it's it's there, this is a this is a uh a modest amount of money, but it's it puts in place some locked-in upfront investments that are going to be really helpful for us on the long term. But of course, we're gonna have to, you know, we're gonna have to what's interesting is I go out and talk to people, you know, nobody thinks that we've invested enough in their issue area, right? The water people want more, the the sea level rise people want more. And they're they're not wrong. None of them are wrong, but we had to fit this within the current financial constraints of the state. We worked a lot with the folks in Wall Street who float the bonds on behalf of the state. Uh, of course, there's an education bond on the ballot as well. Back in in March, uh, the governor put his um housing, homelessness, mental health bond on the ballot. So we we had to work within um within some pretty serious constraints uh because we don't, you know, we're we're very cognizant of the financial situation up in Sacramento right now and uh where we stand on the bond markets. And so um they were also those considerations were also a big part of this this this discussion. When we originally uh proposed the bond, it was originally 15.5 billion, and we had to scale it back to 10.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, putting bonds together has got to be one of the most difficult political balancing acts.
SPEAKER_00You don't even know, man. It was uh a trip. It was a trip.
SPEAKER_01It's rough stuff. I just I remember the negotiations over what went into uh uh Measure M and all that. Look looking through it, you listed most of the stuff. The big state, too. You know, it's a big state. Yep. Uh and looking through it, the the ballot uh book that we get from the state lists the the breakdown. The drought, flood, and water supply gets 3.8 billion, and the uh, as you said, the wildfire uh prevention is is 1.5 billion. As you said, everybody thinks they should have gotten more. The one that struck me, and maybe this is my own sensitivity, as uh disproportionately smaller was the extreme heat, the one for reducing the effects of extreme heat on communities, that's 450 million.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Because so much of the impact is being felt by frontline communities, uh, you know, like the East Valley and Southeast LA and so many places. How did that wind up with the figure it is?
SPEAKER_00I mean, you're you're you're totally right. I will say those kinds of projects are typically just less expensive than a massive water infrastructure project, which really does cost a lot. Um, so that that that's part of the the the thing there. But um, but yes, I mean we you know, again, we need to invest more there as well. But you know, half a billion dollars to really focus laser sharp on on extreme heat mitigation, I think is an important step for the state. And I think we're gonna have to grow from there. Uh, but yeah, that's money for urban greening, uh protecting our urban forests, for cooling, other community resilience centers. Uh that you know, this is gonna help us combat urban heat islands and mitigate significant day-to-day economic downturns for local economies uh that are impacted by extreme heat. And you're absolutely right. The situation in the uh Central Valley is is is is very serious and in and in in our urban area, you know, South LA and other places as well. I will say, I mean, from an from an equity lens, it's important to mention that that uh at the top of the the top of the the the entire bond, we delineate that we we we specify that 40% of the bonds uh of the bond's funds have to go to underserved communities. So while it's true that you know that only half a billion go to um to to uh to to extreme heat mitigation specifically across the board, these projects will be largely benefiting. Uh we really wanted to make sure that that a very significant portion of these bonds would be benefiting our our most underserved. A very significant portion of the bond funds would be would be uh uh you know addressing the needs of our most underserved.
SPEAKER_01Thanks for bringing that up because it segues right into my next question, which is how does how do you go from the the allocation of say, you know, 1.5 billion or 3.8 billion to project level disbursements? Who decides how things get spent and what's the oversight?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so most of it is through the California Natural Resources Agency, the good NRA, as I like to say. Uh and they they are the state agency that oversees uh that yeah, that will be sort of managing the bond. Um now there will be money that will go out to individual conservancies uh as well. And there are some other state agencies, the energy commission and others, that will be involved with various parts of the bond. But they're they're sort of the the home entity that oversees the disbursement of the funds. They will they have a website, and you can actually go online and see uh uh the uh a really good dashboard that they have online right now for previous bonds. So you can get a taste as to as to how the accountability and oversight and just the basic transparency works. Um, there are some additional transparency and accountability measures that we put into this bond that will be stronger than previous. So so that that'll be a guidepost, but I think it's a pretty good guide for folks who are interested to just go on to that NRI website and see um and and and see what's on there. It's also uh everything in here is subject to the um approval and allocation by the legislature, too. So this is all this will permit the legislature uh to to, in conjunction with NRA, uh expend the funds. But you know, literally we we would have the right to, you know, we we could potentially decide in case of a you know some sort of exigence circumstance to not spend a single dollar. Um we want to make sure that we're doing, we also want to make sure that when we are floating bonds, we're doing it at a time when when when when we're gonna be able to get the most bang for buck in terms of borrowing rates and those kinds of things. So um, but it is ultimately also up to the legislature to to to to provide oversight uh over the expenditures of the bond. And there's a budget subcommittees on both in both houses that would that would that would be engaged in that. Uh, but it also is gonna take the work of citizens and the press and and everybody else to just be be you know watching all this funding, just like any aspect of the state budget, by the way.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_00Uh you know, it there's a lot of money in the state budget. Um what's what's fun about the bond is it actually it gives me an it's an area, there's a level of scrutiny by the public about every aspect of the bond because they're forced to vote on this. So that's just people want to know exactly what they're deciding. Um, I I hope that those people who are enjoying going through this process uh of of scrutinizing the bond will do the same with the state budget, which is much more money on an annual basis. And I think um you can help us with our oversight work on the state budget too, because there's a lot in there that uh I think folks would would would benefit from both learning about but also asking questions about.
SPEAKER_01Point well taken. And in the next legislative session, I'm gonna be doing much more focus on state as well as the local and county stuff.
SPEAKER_00Um in the power at the state, and it and it's just amazing how little attention, you know, all the national press, uh all the press attention seems to go to Washington, and then the local focus is on your city council because it's so close. But there's a lot of power at the state, and it really does need more people paying attention and engaged.
SPEAKER_01A ton. And there's a depending on what knew some signs and what he doesn't, uh, there'll be some stuff I'll be doing, some programming about as well.
SPEAKER_00Good.
SPEAKER_01Um the arguments against Prop 4 have been interesting because they don't argue against the the merits, right? They don't argue against what the the bond would pay for. Uh it argues against the funding mechanism. It says that um a bond is is not the right way to go. Um they say that uh a lot of the the costs are not ongoing and that ultimately voters will be paying. They claim in the voter guide 19.3 billion will be how much we pay for $10 billion worth of stuff. How do you respond to that?
SPEAKER_00Well, of course, that that that is a um a payment that takes place over a long period of time, right? So uh, you know, the value of a dollar today is different than a value of a dollar 30 years from now. And all you have to do is look at inflation to understand that. Uh so the idea is you're you're you yes, you are borrowing. And of course, you know, part of the process here involves the state working hard to get the most advantageous borrowing rates that possibly can. And you know, and tweaking and delaying and uh and and and really crafting a strategy that will allow us to borrow at a lower, uh, at as advantageous a rate as possible. Um, but it's like any kind of form of borrowing. It's the reason why people will borrow to buy a house or or to um you know to do a major infrastructural project uh in their own personal life. Uh, you know, there's a benefit to getting the upfront money now. You put in place the investments now, and then you benefit from them over a longer period of time. And and and it, you know, it nearly all, though not all, it's true. I mean, they they can go in and point out a couple of things that are not likely to benefit people 30, 40 years from now, but it's a very tiny portion of the bond. The vast majority of these expenditures are going to be uh are going toward things that are gonna benefit people 30, 40 years from now. That has to be the guiding light when you run a bond. Yeah, because you're asking people into the future to keep paying for things that we're gonna be paying for now. Will people be blessing us or cursing us 30 years from now for the fact that they're having to pay for this? Will they be cursing us for not doing more? Right. You know, another another question to ask. So um, you know, uh every time someone 20 years from now is going to turn on the faucet and the water comes on, that's gonna be their bond money at work, the springler system, the hot showers, drinking water. Um, these are often under underappreciated, but they're massively necessary investments that we need to make on a continual manner. Um, you know, we we and quite frankly, we can't expect one round of investments to provide a solution to our infrastructure on a forever timeline. Um the climate continues to change. These funds are gonna help us address the needs of today and the and at least the near future rather than the needs of yesterday. Um I will say, in addition, um, a lot of really important climate funds were clawed back during the last go-round. When we had all this flush, we had this big flush budget, as you, as you all recall. Um, a lot of them were one-time funds. And the governor crafted the budget in a way, part of why we haven't had massive cuts in spite of the the massive swing in revenue, is because the way the governor crafted that flush budget allowed him to claw back a lot of the money that had been put into that original uh surplus budget. Well, it turns out climate investments took a massive hit.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And so while there was all this up, you know, all this big announcements about all these big climate investments we're gonna make, in the end of the day, when the when the when the um when our revenues sink, that was a that was that was one of the areas of the budget that took one of the biggest hits. And the governor actually said, you know, this is probably an area where given the volatility going forward, we ought to, we ought to invest, we we ought to, we ought to pay for out of out of a out of a climate bond. Um and so that's that's another aspect to this that's that's at play.
SPEAKER_01The uh the official arguments against this um say that clean drinking water, preventing wildfires are necessities, not luxuries, and they should be addressed in our state budget, uh, not through a bond. Uh, and then they they conclude it by saying, uh, let's invest in a greener tomorrow today. Uh these arguments are signed by a couple of Republican state legislators and the Howard Jarvis Taxpayers Association. Um uh on on the regular, are these the kind of investments that uh your Republican colleagues are are are making in the state budget?
SPEAKER_00I I was thinking that in my head. I didn't know I was gonna bring it up. But uh, yeah, I mean I'm glad to hear my Republican friends and the Howard Jarvis folks uh talking about the importance of investments in public infrastructure. That's a great first step. And and quite frankly, sometimes it's good to have these discussions because it forces everyone to really grapple with how inadequate our current investments are.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I mean, I'll give you an example. You know, I've heard back, I had a lot of colleagues, Democratic colleagues especially, that wanted us to do much more investment in clean energy in the bond, which actually got me thinking, gosh, isn't that what the greenhouse gas reduction fund, the cap and trade system is supposed to fund? And maybe that, maybe, you know, but in a weird way, it was good to get us all talking and having the mechanism of the bond. We put some clean energy money in there, but of course not enough for everybody. But but maybe but I'm hopeful that that will spur more of a discussion about how to better tweak the greenhouse gas reduction fund to meet the various needs that were braced in the context of the bond conversation. Again, great. I'm glad I welcome, I welcome a partnership with my Republican friends and the folks from the Taxpayer Association, Howard Jarvis, et cetera, to talk about the need for investments now. I mean, the truth is when you really get into the weeds and you see how much investment is necessary on the firefront, on the waterfront, on a number of these other uh uh areas, we we we need to be doing, yes, we need to be investing in the budget and we need to be doing the bond. These are massive infrastructural needs that we have. We are just getting punched in the face by the impacts of climate change with the wildfires we've been seeing and the all and the drought impacts. Uh, you know, I meet with water people all the time. I'm sure you you spent a lot of time with MWD and Matt when you were on the council, Mike. I mean, the the these it people just take for granted that they're gonna turn on the tap and the water's gonna come out, it's gonna be clean, and it's gonna be available, and there's not gonna be a problem. And thank God we've we've been able to provide that service to our residents. Unfortunately, that same sense of confidence does not exist in other parts of our own state. And if you want more extreme examples, you go look at places like Flint and elsewhere in the country where where they're where they're where they where literally nobody can drink the water. They can't rely on the water. We don't want to ever get to that situation. And as we grow and as climate change continues to impact us in all sorts of new ways, we want it, we need to have the resources uh to to it to be able to address these problems. And and and they're they're not wrong. I mean, we need to have it in this in the budget, and we do, and we need to have it in in bond uh investments.
SPEAKER_01Um so you know You are so much more diplomatic and collegial towards your opponents than I ever was able to be. Kudos.
SPEAKER_00Uh so um who's the coalition supporting this? It's a really good coalition. I mean, it's it's it's a lot of environmental organizations, of course, right? Environmental voters, the the nature conservancy, some environmental justice voices uh that are part of it as well. I mean, clean energy people. Um uh, you know, we you know a lot of the water districts have just come on board. They they were they were mad at me. They thought they wanted they wanted a full water bond of 10 billion. And they're not wrong again, but but again, they also saw what we had in here uh and how valuable um that these water investments are. We've got um you know local government. I mean, you know, Mayor Bass just came on board and all the big cities. Mayors, it was great to be on a Zoom with them, including the the Republican big city mayors from the Central Valley, thanking us for the investments that this is gonna, you know, the difference this is gonna make for the water infrastructure and the fire infrastructure and the and the heat mitigation needs of the Central Valley. So it was it was great to have a bipartisan uh coalition of support. We actually had bipartisan support for this bill, too. I mean, just for this, for the bond. I mean, just the other day I was on the on the phone with Lori Davies, who's a uh a rep, a Republican rep from Orange County, who's dealing with landslides and sea level rise challenges in her district, who's seen the face of the climate change impacts at home. And she got up on the floor and spoken on behalf of the bond because she knew uh how important these investments were, the how important these investments would be for her constituents along the coast in Orange County. So it's actually a broad coalition. Um we've got uh, you know, I mean, the the you know, we've got some good data that just came out from some of the polling uh just a day or two ago. Um, you know, uh, but we're gonna have to, we're gonna keep working for every single vote up and down the state, in the Central Valley, on the coast, north, south. Uh, you know, we really did try hard to meet needs across the state. This is such a massive state. And as I traveled around the state preparing, you know, as we were, as we were drafting this bond, you really get a window into how how how broad the challenges are. I mean, from the forest issues up in the north to to our uh our water challenges and sea level issues, sea level rise issues in the southland to the sea level rise issues that they have in the in the cent in um in San Francisco to the heat mitigation challenges in Central Valley. I mean, the the issues are just massive. And um I know this sounds like a lot of money. I mean, the more I've gotten, you know, of course, I'm so deep in the weeds on this now, but I, you know, I'm I'm telling you, it's it's it's actually uh a very modest investment given the the size and scope of the needs. And in the end of the day, this, you know, making we need to make sure, I mean, thinking about the long-term health of our economy and and people's willingness and ability to come here and grow businesses here and lives here and have good jobs here, it depends on people not having the people being able to take for granted that they're gonna have clean water and that their their houses aren't gonna burn down and their their you know that their towns aren't gonna be filled with smoke every fire season, and and that their kids are gonna be able to go to healthy, safe schools. And you know, all these things um you know require investment. They they cost money. And um and and and the upfront investments we do now are gonna help California continue to grow and thrive and continue to be this economic juggernaut that we have been up at up until now. Uh and so I I you know I say to my more conservative friends, you know, let's not kill the golden goose. Let's let's let's continue to invest in the key infrastructure that will make our state strong.
SPEAKER_01Existential questions for what we're leaving the next generation.
SPEAKER_00100%.
SPEAKER_01Uh where can folks find out more if they have questions?
SPEAKER_00Great question. Uh you know what? I this is that's a great question. Um, what's the website? Cheever, do you know what the website is? I'll edit that question out and I'll just I'll announce it in my clothes. That's so funny. Oh my gosh, I can't believe it. That's so funny.
SPEAKER_01That's okay. I'll cut I'll cut that part out.
SPEAKER_00All right, thanks, Mike. Thank you. You know what? Maybe we'll just we'll get it to you and you can put it on the uh you know what what I'll say is um maybe I'll say check out our website. Yeah, yeah, the URL's down below, and you can post it. How about that? Does that work?
SPEAKER_01Uh what I can do is let me just look it up. Like I can tell you. Yeah. Yeah. Uh yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that that was the trick question. I know that of all the questions. Yeah. Yeah. Uh it's funny, you know, you get, I mean, I'm so involved with getting it, then there's this campaign and it's off doing their thing. I mean, I I check in with them um every other week, basically. And I've been helping out with the editorial interviews, but they they've got their own operation. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And um, well, let me just do a uh uh uh I'll just say uh Senator Ben Allen, thank you for joining us on What's Next Los Angeles.
SPEAKER_00Cool.
SPEAKER_01Um sauce it, and then you can just say goodbye. Senator Ben Allen, thanks for joining us on What's Next Los Angeles.
SPEAKER_00Well, thank you so much, Mike. I really appreciate this discussion. Appreciate you know folks can reach out to us if they have any questions about the proposition or any of our work. And I look forward to to being back with you to talk about the the challenges and opportunities and and advantages and disadvantages of our uh wild and robust and incredibly important state government.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, a lot of stuff to talk about there. Thank you so much.
SPEAKER_00Thanks, Mike. Thank you.
SPEAKER_01And that does it for this episode of What's Next Los Angeles. We will be back real soon with more episodes looking at the issues and the candidates on your November ballot. My thanks to my friend Marta Ivery for sound editing. My thanks to LA Forward for partnering on this podcast with me, and of course, as always, my thanks to you for listening. Until next time, take good care and peace.