What this mom learned about Triumph and Heartache through 7 pregnancies: Sascha's Birth Story, Part II

Today I finish my conversation with Sascha. We hear about her triumphant home birth with her fourth pregnancy and the challenging outcomes of the two pregnancies that followed: what her experience was with the screening and diagnostic testing, and how she's moved on to her current pregnancy. We pick up where we left off last week: Sascha is being ushered to the hospital by her husband, so as to avoid a home birth with their third child.

Transcript

Paulette  0:04  
Music. Welcome to what you didn't expect in fertility, pregnancy and birth, how we think and feel about this enormous transition often lives in the gap between what we expected and what we actually experienced. This gap exists in part because of how we tend to talk about and portray these events on all kinds of media in a one dimensional way. Everything was amazing, but it's more often the case that there are beautiful things that happen and at the same time really challenging things that happen. This show shares true experiences with the easy parts and the different parts and how we manage what we didn't expect, the intense things that can happen in the course of this transition can impact how you see yourself, how you see your partner and how you parent. The better we understand what happened to us, the better we can manage all the things that follow. I'm your host, Paulette Kamenecka. I'm a writer and an economist and a mother of two girls, and I met many, many challenges in this process, none of which I expected. Today I finished my conversation with Sasha. We hear about her triumphant home birth with her fourth pregnancy and her challenging outcomes with the two pregnancies that follow. She talks about what her experience was with the screening and diagnostic testing and how she's moved on to her current pregnancy. We pick up where we left off last week, Sasha is being ushered to the hospital by her husband so as to avoid a home birth with their third child.

Sascha  1:31  
Was five days past due, so at four days we're doing marketing for our birth center, and so we were invited to their staff Christmas party, and so the midwives were doing pressure points on me, and then I went to my chiropractor the next morning, and she did pressure points. And then I went, what does that look like? I remember pressure points on my feet and my calves beyond that. I don't really remember, but I know that my chiropractor is like, this will work. And so the contraction started about noon, my mother in law was visiting, and so I just didn't say anything. And then three, I was like, okay, I can feel them more. So I sent my husband out of the house entirely. I was like, just go and focus on work so that I can just do my thing. And then at six, I was like, Okay, this is real now. And his whole thing is he didn't want to accidentally have a baby at home. So at six, I was like, Maybe I started talking like, No, we're going now. So we called and we went in at six, and she was born at nine. Ish,

Paulette  2:31  
wow. That feels to me a little bit like we're almost cutting it close. I

Unknown Speaker  2:37  
think it was closer than he would have liked.

Paulette  2:42  
Um, but can you tell where you are in the process by number three?

Sascha  2:45  
Yes, I can feel what four centimeters feels like. I can feel what seven or nine feels like. So I can feel what's going and

Paulette  2:56  
are the intensity of contractions increasing, or they're getting closer together, or that's the interesting

Sascha  3:02  
thing, is that they're like, oh, when they increase in intensity, mine never start any less than five minutes apart. In my opinion, to active labor. I could feel when I did the pressure points at 12. Is like, okay, I can feel something happening, but it wasn't full on labor. And I tried to lay down as a and I think my plug came out at three, so I knew things were happening.

Paulette  3:23  
Yeah. And now you know your body, so you go in and that this sounds like a pretty seamless birth,

Sascha  3:29  
yes, yes. And I thought that she would want to be born in the water as well, but she didn't. I'm in the tub, and then, like, Okay, guess I'll get on the bed. And so she was born on the bed. I think I thought that water birth is what all babies want, and she wasn't coming out that way, so she came out when I was on a bed. It

Paulette  3:47  
is true that birth is something between you and the baby, so it's obviously not just you, but interesting to think about what they can feel and how they respond to that. So this baby's born pretty quickly. Are you staying in overnight?

Sascha  4:02  
No, we went back that night. I think we left at one in the morning because you just wait for a while and measure and check everything and they observe you, and then when we're ready, it's like, Okay, we'll go now. Wow.

Paulette  4:14  
And what is this post part of life?

Sascha  4:19  
That one was honestly the easiest. We were going to a church and they'd made us a meal train. So people were bringing us food. When you have a baby, figuring out dinner, it's one of the hardest parts of parenting, and when you have at this point, a kid that's two and four, having the meal train was the biggest lifesaver in the world. And in fact, my husband asked them to extend it for us, and they did so having meals coming in just made it so much easier.

Paulette  4:43  
That's amazing. Learning on the journey here. Okay, blood work. Scare on the third one was so what happened?

Sascha  4:52  
So I did the genetic testing. I did n, i P t, I'd never done it before. I thought that I was going to come back. I trusted that it was a healthy, viable baby, but I thought that it was just going to be like, Oh no, downs, and it's a girl or boy, because we were Team Green, we didn't find out on the first two, but on the first two, I was sure it was a girl in the first I was sure it was a boy on the second.

Paulette  5:17  
So the aipt is out nine weeks, 12 weeks this time I told

Sascha  5:22  
10. But back then, yeah, they said, You go after nine weeks, you get your blood work.

Paulette  5:27  
Here's some things to keep in mind while we talk about testing. The MIPT stands for non invasive prenatal testing, and it's a screening test, not a diagnostic test. What's the difference? A screening test is usually not invasive, as the name implies, and they're meant to estimate the likelihood or the risk of certain diseases. It's a blood test that looks at placental DNA circulating in the mother's body. If you get a positive result, you can check on it with a diagnostic test, which tends to be more invasive. Think amniocentesis, where the doctor sticks a thin needle through the abdominal wall into the amniotic sac to get amniotic fluid, or chorionic villus sampling, where they take a little piece of the placenta, and these tests are definitive. The MIPT is relatively good at predicting common genetic abnormalities like Trisomy 13, trisomy 18 and Trisomy 21 but it's less accurate at screening for more rare genetic issues. And you're doing this because you're over 35 or you're 3530

Sascha  6:33  
32 that one I was 34 okay, I thought that I was just gonna find out the baby sex to surprise the kids and create some cute gender reveal. That's what I saw. I didn't know that there's any risk of false positive with.

Sascha  7:03  
And and the Birth Center calls me. They didn't know how to read the results. So the person that calls me says there's a genetic abnormality. But for me to tell you, I also have to tell you the baby stacks, do you want to know? I was like, okay, yes. And they go, okay, so your baby has Turner Syndrome. And they're like, You should talk to a genetic counselor. So I hang up, I Google it, and I'm like,

Paulette  7:24  
Oh my gosh, and I'm panicking, what's Turner

Sascha  7:27  
Syndrome? Called Monosomy x so it's where a girl only has 1x chromosome. So when you do the genetic testing, there's three Trisomy 1318, and 21 you can decide what you're going to do. So they tell me, baby has Turner Syndrome. And when they say one like that, you have no idea how minor or bad it's going to be, and they don't tell me that either. It turns out it was a 9% chance, not a full diagnosis. So I did a high risk ultrasound, and baby look completely fine. So I decided not to do amnio, because the baby looked fine. There were no markers of

Paulette  8:04  
anything. What should you see in the ultrasounds? If something is not cool, it

Sascha  8:08  
depends. At the 12 week they're looking for the nuchal translucency. So is it right? Yep. But that one looked fine, and you can actually, depending on the quality of the machine, you can actually see some things. There are things you can see as early as 12 weeks, but then they'll do an early anatomy at 15. And so they were looking to see, how does the brain look? How does the heart look? How do the organs that they can see? How do they look?

Paulette  8:33  
Does that mean you've gone five weeks and we don't know whether she has tutor syndrome or not? So

Sascha  8:38  
as soon as I talked to the genetic counselor, which was an hour later, they're like, No, it's only 9% chance. And they're like, and it could be mild, it could be major. Once I was back in town, I did an ultrasound at 15 weeks, but it was like a week or two wait for that ultrasound to see, like, what can we see? And everything. Okay, so then it was like, it's probably a false positive. So between that and the ultrasound, we're like, we'll skip the amnio. We think it's a false positive, but we didn't find out for sure for five years.

Paulette  9:09  
Why? Five years? We just didn't do the amnio.

Sascha  9:13  
We're like, ah, once she's bigger, it's only pressing to know at puberty, because they might need growth hormones or something. And she's our smallest one now. So we thought maybe so once I was pregnant with this. I'm pregnant now with our fifth we said, let's check her. Let's do her blood She's five years old. She'll understand the blood test. So we did that and found out she doesn't

Paulette  9:35  
have it. Man, you guys are good at the waiting game. Is what I can say about that I get. If it all looks fine, let's imagine it's fine. We don't have to deal with it. But,

Sascha  9:45  
I mean, I prayed my behind off too. Then we asked everybody at church to pray for us, which felt a kind of dramatic and selfish, but we worked above it.

Paulette  9:54  
Let's not get down on Sasha and her husband. This is a real thing, not just for you two as parents, but for the siblings, for your daughter, for everyone involved. This is a like, conceivably big issue, so I'm glad that the mitp test result was just a false positive, and that you trusted the information you got when you got it Yes. So all of that is great, but you're still deciding to have a fourth when you don't know about what's going to happen with the third Yes.

Sascha  10:21  
Well, I guess all things pointed to normal, so we just in the back of head. We're like, I'm assuming it's a false positive. And if there's any we need to deal with, we'll deal with it later.

Paulette  10:32  
Okay, and then do we get pregnant with the fourth easily? Of course, we of course we do. We're nauseous the first trimester. And are we imagining the same kind of birth, or now you've moved so no,

Sascha  10:46  
we were in Arizona for two, three and four, but we decided to do a home birth because it was 2020, and I had done two at the birth center, and I trusted my body in the process enough. And after the dramatics of the last blood work, we skipped the blood work. We're like, it's a healthy baby. We're skipping all of that. So four was pretty smooth, minus

Paulette  11:06  
four by four, you're a 36 Yes.

Sascha  11:09  
Okay, 3032 Yes, 36 with number four,

Paulette  11:13  
but we're still ignoring the blood work.

Sascha  11:15  
Yeah. Because of the drama of the time prior, I just trusted my intuition. I was like, just not doing it this time. That's

Paulette  11:23  
interesting, because in the course of the story, you clearly have some measure of risk aversion, because your first one's in a hospital and you are learning from each experience and making different choices. But clearly there's some risk aversion present, but not for this issue, which is interesting, slash, cool. So we're planning a home birth,

Sascha  11:42  
but I also do all the ultrasounds, because some people don't do blood work, don't do ultrasounds. I do all the ultrasounds.

Paulette  11:50  
You're hedging. I like that. It's fair to be burned by the first one, because that whole thing sounds really stressful. So for the fourth one, we're planning a home birth. Are the kids going to be present? How does your husband feel about it? Who's driving the home birth?

Sascha  12:04  
He was like, I'm gonna catch the baby, because he's caught most of them. He's like, I got this. But we're not so confident that would we would free birth. We like a professional that. Yeah, so we did the Honduras. We weren't sure about the kids. I started labor at midnight, unfortunately, and she was born at nine. But my kids are early birds. They were up at six, and we were just staring at the watch until the sitter could come. And once a sitter came, she took the kids downstairs because they wanted to be involved. You see pictures of people with their kids in the room, minor these inquisitive beings. I was like, everybody out. I need to focus. Yeah, that's fair. I would say my third I did at the birth center, and the kids were meandering in and out. But it was different. It was evening. I was rested. This one, I got no sleep. I've been up all night. I just want everybody out of the room so I can focus.

Paulette  12:53  
This makes total sense. And are you in a bath that you have inflated in your house? Or how does it

Sascha  12:59  
work? You're in a two story, and it was relatively small, so we had our bed and the bathtub in the hall bathroom. So I labored between the two. I got out of bed or I got out of the tub, because I'm like, okay, she wants to be born on the bed, so I'm on the bed and she's not coming. So I was back in the tub. So we ended up, I gave birth in the tub. The midwife is in the corner, and Jonathan's just there with me, and so I delivered in the tub, and Jonathan delivered, yeah, wow.

Paulette  13:29  
That sounds amazing. And as expected, and are the births all easy now, because you know how to do it, they're easy and they know

Sascha  13:35  
what to expect. The active labor is a few hours and it's intense, and the push phase the baby exiting is like 10 minutes, intense. But, yeah, I definitely know what to expect. And so all of those knock on wood went smoothly. Okay, excellent.

Paulette  13:52  
How big is baby number four?

Sascha  13:53  
This one was bigger. She was like, 813, so she was bigger, but she wasn't the

Paulette  13:57  
biggest. Yeah, that still seems threateningly large, but we're okay with that. So she comes, and then what's postpartum like this time? Now you have three kids,

Sascha  14:07  
yes, but we had the meal train. We had some sitters and nannies. Hers was really pretty simple, except I got an infection again, which we figured out because my blood pressure was high and it wasn't going

Paulette  14:19  
down. Who's checking your blood pressure

Sascha  14:23  
with the home birth? The midwife comes back to visit all three days, and she checked it, and it was high. And so she had me checking, and it wasn't going down. And I went to our chiropractor, the chiropractor and a doctor she was partners with, and I went to their facility, and they gave me a shot of some strong antibiotic, shot in the behind, and that fixed me up.

Paulette  14:47  
Good god, wait, Sasha, I'm worried about preeclampsia. How come we're not how come we're not worried about

Sascha  14:52  
that, because my blood pressure tends to be low in pregnancy, low to normal. So that was a concern. Is this postpartum high blood pressure? I was also exhausted and the bleeding wasn't stopping, right? Well, the bleeding not stopping, and there's still clots passing. I think that was an indicator that there was some sort of an infection going because when they put me on the antibiotics, I healed. I was no longer postpartum bleeding,

Paulette  15:18  
which is why, okay, okay. And so after the shot, you experienced the same thing,

Unknown Speaker  15:23  
yeah. Then I was like, Okay, now I'm on demand.

Paulette  15:26  
Wow, I'm glad this is caught, although it sounds like there's a lot of moving parts here. Oh, yes, did you avoid going to the ER because you had that weird experience with the sepsis, or you didn't think you needed it, or,

Sascha  15:41  
I think it was some combination of those. I think it was like, Should she go? Should she not go talking with professionals? And somebody started me on regular antibiotics, and then they did a shot to pump things up after a day or two, to be like, let's do something more intense.

Unknown Speaker  15:58  
But I was talking to

Sascha  16:00  
between my midwife and my chiropractor, and then another doctor. I was talking to professionals, and we were observing my symptoms and vitals,

Paulette  16:09  
yeah, and I'm imagining you didn't feel that badly, because you can't really feel the high blood pressure, right?

Sascha  16:15  
No, I couldn't feel the high blood pressure. I just felt extra tired, which normally for me, when the placenta comes out, I'm like, Bing, I feel better. I might be sleep deprived, but exhaustion goes away. And so when I've had these infections, I still have this exhaustion.

Paulette  16:33  
Okay, so we know what's going on, and you're taken care of. And then it sounds like there's something that goes on between the fourth child and the fifth child you're pregnant with. Now, yes. So what happens there?

Sascha  16:47  
So I was due again in 2022 for our fifth December baby, but at six ish weeks, I didn't feel worse, and when I went in for my first ultrasound at seven and five, there was nothing there. It was a blighted ovum. So I was stopped because I didn't feel increasingly sick. Yeah, my body's like, I'm gonna carry this. So we did a DNC because it was getting later and later, and my body wasn't passing it because they weren't sure. They're like, let's do some progesterone supplementation. And with the progesterone supplementation, I got increasingly queasy.

Paulette  17:20  
Okay, okay. We're very disappointed by this. How do we feel about this? Okay, yes.

Sascha  17:27  
On one hand, super disappointed. On the other hand, I'm like, Well, maybe my luck's run out, because at this point I'm 38 okay, maybe I've hit my upper limit and that's all I'm getting.

Paulette  17:37  
Okay, and we get to the DNC, okay,

Sascha  17:41  
yeah, it was not fun, but that was fine, yeah,

Paulette  17:45  
okay, because I found it as well. And it's not like the procedure is some terrible thing, but yours is weighted because it was a pregnancy that you wanted.

Sascha  17:53  
Yes, yes, yeah. So then we wait a year, if it's just the emotional toll of itself, dive right back in. And it was exhausting, and I'm also an entrepreneur, and that was really hard to go through that, plus dealing with clients, and it was just so much at once that I just needed a break, so just kind of waited, and then probably a year later, maybe a year and a half, then I got pregnant again, and I got sick, but I never got as sick as normal, and we'd moved at this point, we were in San Diego, and I have a doctor that's had good reviews, and she's really good with high risk, but she was convinced there was going to be something wrong, which was ironic, because there was, but it was like, Okay, you need this work. You need this work. You have really large babies, you have chance of infection, you have potential genetic defect. She was treating me like the end was coming, which ironically, it was, because she's like, you have to do the blood work. So I do the blood work and it comes.

Paulette  19:02  
So before we get to the results of the blood work, yeah, we've already takes blood work to the curb because of the issue in the third pregnancy. So how does she get you to do the blood work? And what do you think about that

Sascha  19:14  
at this point, I was 39 and they did the testing on the blighted old when it came back. Who knows nothing wrong? It just does happen by chance sometimes. So at 39 I'm like, it's fine. We'll do the blood work. She was convinced that it was a thing. Oh, the other reason is that they don't do the 12 week nucle translucency. Apparently, most of the country doesn't anymore. The hospital image they do like a dating ultrasound, but the only way to get the information is through the blood work.

Paulette  19:42  
Yeah. Okay. So what Sasha is talking about here is that the nuchal translucency test, which uses ultrasound to measure the presence or absence of a fluid buildup in the fetal neck, has been treated away in many hospitals for a newer test, the genome wide, cell free fetal DNA blood test. There are pros and cons to each test, but the blood test is more accurate for more common genetic issues, and the nuchal translucency test can test for a wider range of issues.

Sascha  20:14  
It's like, okay, I'll do the blood work. So I do the blood work and it comes back inconclusive. So I go in for the 12 week and I get the ultrasound. She's like, but you need to do the blood work. Okay, I'll go do the blood work again. So I do the blood work again, and it takes two weeks to come back to me, and she calls me, and I'm over 13 weeks at this point, but again, the pregnancy didn't feel like the rest. I never had to lay down. I didn't spend time in bed, and I was super nervous. Something was wrong, because I wasn't as sick as normal. So the blood work comes back, and it's Trisomy 13, which is fatal. And she's like, this is not a false positive. She's like, the others are sometimes false positives. But for this, three main ones, trisomy 1821, and 13, this is what this is, and it's not good. So she's like, so what do you want to do? Look it up and amnio ultrasound. So we decided on an ultrasound, but it took a week or so to get in. So we get into the ultrasound.

Paulette  21:12  
Wait. I can't, I can't, I can't. How can they keep you waiting so long? You're already 30 weeks.

Sascha  21:17  
They got me in for the ultrasound quickly, but I think the blood work didn't come back until maybe I was 14 or 15 weeks, because she did get me in the ultrasound quickly. Because she's like, if you are going to terminate, you need to know now what's going on. I think it that far along. Instead of a D and C, it's a D and E. So she's like, You need to schedule the D and E, which they couldn't do until 17 weeks. I was 17 on the day. She's like, schedule that and schedule the ultrasound. And if the ultrasound looks okay, schedule. Amnio, yeah, so for the ultrasound, and honestly, by this point, I'm literally praying that the baby has died, which sounds insane to say, but knowing that it's non viable, how nice would it be for me to be off the hook of having to make a hard decision? Yeah, I go in and every time they check, there's still a heartbeat. But I'm not feeling kicks or anything, and normally I would have felt something by this point, I'm not even growing the way I normally do. I think I always thought that if you had a blood work, it would be how am I going to handle this? It was clear as day that this little world is not going to live, and not for Earth, limbs, head, face, that cleft palate, brain. I'm not an expert. And as the tech is doing, the ultis, and I can see the heart is not right. If I can see that right, nothing is right. And I can see that so and you I can see there's extra fingers and all of it, there's not one thing that is like, yeah, this could heal itself. This baby could survive. And so he looks at he's like, essentially, was like, there's no point in amnio. Well, it's clear what's going on, and confirming complaint is determinate. I was like, Yeah. And it feels weird to talk about it so matter of factly, because it was so wanted, and it was heartbreaking, like kids, and then we were pregnant both times, so it was heartbreaking to explain it to them that this baby was not ready. And I never thought that I'd be in Planned Parenthood, terminating, and I didn't find out till after the fact that there's full boards on Reddit of support for this. It's called terminating. Tfmr terminating for medical reasons. There's a community supporting each other, and so I actually posted about it earlier this year on Facebook, just so that people know that this is a thing, and this is why we need women's rights, because people should have these choices. And I was surprised by the number of people that either commented or messaged me saying they've been through it, but nobody talks about it, no,

Paulette  23:49  
but I have goosebumps just listening to this. And the thing that makes it so hard is that I think and correct me if I'm wrong, but people in your position with this feeling of guilt, which feels unfair to you, because isn't this a more benevolent choice, yes, for that being than to go through everything and be born and have not half a brain? And

Sascha  24:15  
I feel that without a doubt, I know there's other people that are like every person is a gift, and their presence was a gift to our family that would not have been fair to my family to put them through all of that experience. And to me, I don't think it would be fair for that soul or spirit. I feel that they deserve to come through and and yes, everybody's experience is different, but I don't know what's to say that that is right? Or is it that their experience was really to go all the way through, potentially dying in utero, potentially having surgeries or dying in my arms day three? I don't know all of that, but I know that as hard of a choice as it was, or how tragic that it was the right choice for us.

Paulette  25:07  
Yeah, it becomes really hard when it's not just you and your partner. Both of my kids had significant medical issues and the weight of okay, this is not just mine to bear alone. But how will this affect my ability to be a mother to these other kids by devoting all my time to this other child who will not survive. It's a really hard and complex issue, and I 100% agree with you should be made by each family. And maybe if money weren't the issue, or health care were free or something, you might feel differently about it, but you have to make a choice in terms of your resources and your family and

Sascha  25:44  
impact of that and the time impact of choosing to carry, that's my point in the US. I

Paulette  25:54  
yeah, I totally agree. So I'm so sorry that that happens after the blighted ovum, which you were not, yeah, you know, not anticipating and like, it's easy enough to say, oh, one didn't work out. That's fine, but, but after the second one, it seems a little

Sascha  26:10  
harder, yeah, yeah, because then you're like, is Am I done? But all of this, you see, people have babies till all kinds of ages. I'm still cycling regularly, and I'm healthier than ever, so there isn't any reason why I shouldn't be able to get pregnant again. So that's what I went with, but still giving it time, because that's a hard situation to go through.

Paulette  26:36  
Yeah, that sounds really hard. Yeah, I am. I'm very sympathetic to that. And so you're pregnant now. How pregnant are you tomorrow? Is 17 weeks. Wow, congratulations. So I feel like we've caught you in the glory phase. We're done throwing up or how did that all go

Sascha  26:52  
my energetic days, as I meant, sweater in my bed, no makeup, yeah, these are my high energy days right now.

Paulette  26:59  
So this one felt like the other four. You were very nauseous. Yeah, sick, exhausted

Sascha  27:06  
the whole nine yards, but I still did all of the blood work, and we moved during it. We moved from San Diego to LA. So I thought it was funny, because I did the blood work, and my blood work comes back again, Turner Syndrome, which is what happened with Kid number three. I'm like, Are we serious? Yeah, but I felt fine. And the fact that it was Turners again, I'm like, I think there's something about me and me having girls work comes up positive for Turner Syndrome, because by this point, we had tested our five year olds, and she's negative for it. And I know this adjusts for age, and now I'm 40, yeah, but what? This one should be fine. So I switched doctors, which was funny because the result came through in the middle of switching doctors, so in between appointments, and I got a voicemail from the first one, and she's like, I know you've switched care providers and but she misnamed the genetic abnormality, which I thought was funny, because that just shows that she was not fazed by it. I'm at UCLA now, which is a teaching institution. I was like, Yeah, let's do everything. So we did my karyotyping was comes back clear. So it's I don't have Turners, because That's often why it would show up for Turners twice for a baby. But I was like, well, let's do every test possible. So we did full amnio. I have two more results coming in to see if maybe there's something with a micro array that'll show but I'm happy to know that this baby is completely healthy by all amnio and all of that.

Paulette  28:39  
I'm glad you have experience with these tests, and your genetic information puts you in the clear for turners and that the amnio confirms the fetal health

Sascha  28:46  
first thing too, I will say that it made each ultrasound and each thing more stressful, because when you've been through the losses, I haven't been this far along in four years.

Unknown Speaker  28:58  
Yeah, so if you've

Sascha  29:00  
been through the experience of seeing ultrasounds where things aren't right, you, it's hard to get that out of your head and to feel okay, yeah, as much as pregnancy can be nerve wracking the whole way through all the different having been through that, it brings a different level of anxiety to it, yes, trepidation,

Paulette  29:23  
yeah, for sure. I mean, that's fair. It is out of your control, but the combination out of your control and inside your body is not a great combination, right? Because it's one thing to say, I don't control the weather. It's another thing to say, I don't control the cell division inside my body is a harder thing to go off. So

Sascha  29:43  
that's they were always asking and praying, we have another baby but they'd also said please don't tell us until you know that it's a healthy one.

Unknown Speaker  29:52  
And so,

Sascha  29:53  
I'm in bed with morning sickness and all of this. And my oldest realizes a couple of weeks ago, tell us, she asked me if I'd had my period, or something. But she is like a detective.

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