When 16-year-old New Jersey student, Brandon, first read about sport psychology, he was immediately drawn to the field given his love of basketball and how the mind works.
He's since dived deep into the topic as the founder of Mind Design Sports and the host of the Mind Design Sports podcast.
We chat about how students can benefit from sport psychology and the challenges he overcame in launching the podcast.
When 16-year-old New Jersey student, Brandon, first read about sport psychology, he was immediately drawn to the field given his love of basketball and how the mind works.
He's since dived deep into the topic as the founder of Mind Design Sports and the host of the Mind Design Sports podcast.
We chat about how students can benefit from sport psychology and the challenges he overcame in launching the podcast.
Podcast Host 00:16
Hello, and welcome to the top of the class podcast. I'm your host Alex Cork. And in today's episode, I chat with 16 year old founder and host of Mind Design Sports, Brandon Shintani. Brandon's love of sports psychology has had profound impacts both on and off the court. We chat about what students can learn in sports psychology, starting a podcast and getting a head start on a career during high school. Let's chat with Brandon Shintani. Hey, Brandon, welcome to the top of the class podcast. It's awesome to have you on the show. Can you tell our listeners a little bit about yourself and perhaps a little bit about what we'll be chatting about today?
Brandon 00:52
Thanks, Alex, for having me on. Excited to chat with you. And yeah, just a little bit myself. I go to a public school in New Jersey, and I'm a big sports fan, especially basketball, I like to watch it. I like to play it and just a pretty active person in the sports world. And yeah, I guess today we're going to talk about Mind Design Sports, which is a sports psychology organization that I created. And I love to share with the audience and try to give some tips and advice and insights on how your listeners can use that to their advantage and make your life better whether they're an athlete or really just a student in general.
Podcast Host 01:25
Yeah. Awesome. That says really cool. So Mind Design Sports is the concept. How long has that been a part of your life for?
Brandon 01:34
Yeah, so we launched in September 2020. And so right after the summer, and right at the start of the school year, and I was just working on the website in the summer and trying to get it off, but I really launched it in September.
Podcast Host 01:47
Okay. And when you say Wait, is that just you? And you just say collectively way? Or have you got some people helping you out as well.
Brandon 01:54
It was just me. And I just kind of had like my mom and my dad look over it and just kind of give me some feedback. But yeah, I kind of built the website myself. Yeah.
Podcast Host 02:02
Okay. And how did you go about building the website? Because honestly, when I was trying to build a website, myself, I really didn't know what I was doing. So what was your kind of background in building a website? And how many challenges did you find along the way with that?
Brandon 02:15
Yeah, so I actually didn't code the website actually used a website called Squarespace. And I'm sure a lot of people have heard of that. Yep. And yeah, you basically go on Squarespace. You buy a domain, and then it's pretty intuitive. And it's pretty friendly. So I kind of just played around with it. See the design? And yeah, I just tried to make it very absorbable. And in a fashion that people can read and absorb easily.
Podcast Host 02:39
Yeah, well, obviously, like, building an effective website is an important part of anyone's business these days. And I'm going to guess you're quite a lot on socials as well. How do you try and get the word out there for Mind Design Sports? What are some of your main channels that you're using?
Brandon 02:54
Yeah, so Mind Design Sports is on YouTube. And we have our podcasts all on probably every platform, because we use anchor and they just distributed to everywhere. And also, we have an Instagram and Twitter. So we create like infographs on sports psychology and tips specifically, and we're trying to just increase our following base and increase our word about it and just try to get monetized sports as something that all athletes should know about something like if you ask any athlete probably know about Nike, or those big brands. And that's just our big goal right now on trying to get because I think it's an important message to learn about sports psychology. And yeah...
Podcast Host 03:33
Yeah. All right, awesome. We'll give our listeners a bit of a background as to what exactly sports psychology is, because I know, people will probably heard the term before and probably don't know what role it might play in an athlete's performance on the field or on the track when they're doing training or when they're kind of in the offseason plays like a lot of different roles in an athlete's life. But what are your thoughts on sport psychology?
Brandon 03:58
So psychology is the science and study of human behavior and the thoughts behind it. And I'm sure a lot of people know that. But psychology is different realms and subfields. And one of those would be sports psychology. So sports psychologists, coaches, trainers, they try to use sport psychology tactics. So for example, maybe breathing techniques or visualization or self talk to up an athlete's performance, mentally, so it's not really about, oh, what food should I be eating to get more muscular? Or how many reps should I be getting to get more muscular, it's more of the mental side of things and how increasing your mental game will translate to better results on the field or on the court. So that's just a little bit about sports psychology.
Podcast Host 04:42
So how does sports psychology kind of play out in basketball? And what are some of the players or who are some of the players that kind of epitomize what it means to have either a very weak psychology like they'd kind of blow up after a second or very strong psychology people who are like really mentally focused every game?
Brandon 05:00
Basketball is pretty tough. There's only five people on the court. So you got to fight for your spot, and you need to maximize the chances of you being on the court. So sports psychologists will tell basketball athletes that if you're not very good, or you don't feel confident, they'll try to boost that first. And they'll try to work on skills on the court, and also off the court. So mentally, so for psychologists can also help a basketball athlete get a better relationship with your teammates, and that will translate on the core because if you have more camaraderie with your teammates, you're going to see that there's gonna be better communication, you're gonna know better chemistry, and that's going to translate. So I think that'd be the main difference between an individual sport like golf versus a team sport like basketball. Yeah. And a lot of athletes in basketball are starting to know about sport psychology. A lot of NBA players, they have podcasts, and they talk about mental side of things. And they talk about destigmatizing mental health. So I think one big example that everyone knows about would be Michael Jordan. So and Kobe Bryant, so they worked with a pretty well known sports psychologist called Tim Grover, and he's really well known. He has a bunch of books on sport psychology, and he talks about how to really lock in, stay focused, and all that good sports psychology stuff. And I'm not really sure who would be a person that has a weak mental side, because I think everyone's starting to get the gist of it and really get into the field. But yes, what psychology is growing? So I think 20 years, maybe I think a lot of people will just know about sports psychology and understand what that is.
Podcast Host 06:31
Yeah, well, I think there is one player that comes to mind for me a little bit. Who is the guy when LeBron James was playing for the Cavs? And he had that teammate who ran the other way, accidentally, and he was like, Why?
Brandon 06:46
Oh JR Smith.
Podcast Host 06:47
Yeah, yeah. JR Smith right. So he's here, I guess, has never come across as the most mentally switched on. And he has moments of brilliance, but also moments of like, What the hell are they doing? And I guess for the fans sitting there at home, you know, those moments where it's super confusing, where, you know, they're super talented player, but they're also doing things where you like, What the hell are they doing? Most of the time, that moment, could be attributed to sports psychology, right? They're just probably not quite ready for the moment mentally, and do something totally inexplicably crazy at the time, like running in the opposite direction that Jr. Smith did.
Brandon 07:26
Yeah, I want to talk about that. Actually, that was a great point. So JR Smith, He's a great player. He's in an NBA, he'd probably school any high school athlete, any D1 college athlete. So it was a big game, it was in the playoffs? I think it was like on the line. Like one point off, it was for the game winner. But I feel like if JR Smith could have been focused more maybe or if he was more concentrated in the game, he wouldn't have ran other way. Like that's just like something, you know, a first grade first grader would do like you wouldn't think an NBA player would run the wrong way. So I feel like if you really enhance your mind, and you're in the game, you're president, that would have not happened? I think so.
Podcast Host 08:04
Yeah, it would have been a very different outcome. Apparently, he said that later, he didn't know what the score was. So he's running the other way. Because he wasn't sure what the score was, we thought that they were up by more or something like that. He thought the score was different effectively. But it really does go to show like sports psychology and just knowing where you're at in any particular situation, and how to focus in that situation can be critical. And I guess like from LeBron James inside and all the other Cavs teammates, right? Like, you know, when you've got that moment where you're so frustrated at a teammate, yet, you know, after a minute of a timeout, you've got to return and come back and have full trust in that teammate again, who just completely blew it. Right. And so that must be very hard as well, to kind of like let go of the anger and the tension and the frustration and just go back to what is my role? How can I do the best thing possible for the team? And how can I support my teammates to do their best as well?
Brandon 08:59
Yeah, 100%, especially with team sports, like, just one athlete can really disrupt the whole team and the performance and their mentality. So I'm sure it disrupted LeBron. And it's really on him as well on how he's going to respond as the leader of the team to chair Smith. Is he going to pick him back up? Is he gonna yell at him and get pissed, but I'm sure LeBron handled it well, because he's been an NBA has some wisdom, and he knows how to be a leader. He's been a championship. Oh, my God plenty of time. So yes, yeah.
Podcast Host 09:28
Yeah. Well, it's interesting to look at LeBron James, because I think he has a reputation for being super, super professional. You know, he's in 37 hours like that he's in He's like, 17th season or more. And yeah, like he just keeps on performing at a higher and higher level because of his preparation because of his mental toughness. So how can sport psychology and everything that you've learned from that translate to students in the classroom going into an exam, doing things that every other student is doing from day to day Like, how do the lessons from sports psychology can translate into normal life? Basically?
Brandon 10:04
Yeah, 100%. Personally, sports psychology has helped me in other ways. So, for example, sports psychology will help athletes with super stressful situations, like we said, and how to deal with them how to stay composed how to stay focused, how not be too tense. And that can translate to maybe a big band performance, a big test ICT and you're super anxious or you're tired. And one big sports psychology technique on how to combat this would be breathing techniques. And I'm sure you've known about that. And a lot of people know about breathing. There's many breathing techniques out there. So box breathing is one of them that I like, and basically, you breathe in for four seconds, hold for four seconds, and then breathe out for four seconds and hold for four seconds. So it like creates a box, because it's 444. And it really just relaxes you. It calms your nerves, and right before tests. If you do that, even during the test, it'll really help you stay focused and in the present.
Podcast Host 11:03
Yeah, and then you've Of course, you've got things like visualization, which I know is a big part of sport. So like, if you're a student who's about to sit in exam, of course, it's a bit hard to visualize, I would have thought because you don't really know what questions are going to come up. But you might visualize yourself going in there calm and compose, sitting down, opening up the paper, doing all these bits and pieces, right? So what would you advise students to do for the visualization side of things, which I know is a big part of sports psychology,
Brandon 11:32
you don't have to know the questions to visualize. So for visualization, you want to use your five senses, and you almost want to create a movie in your brain. So you're almost playing a movie before you go into the test center, for example. So you would walk into the test room, you try to envision the smell and try to smell what the room is like maybe if it's on your high school, you already know the smell. So you're almost primed to be ready. And focused. When you get into the test room, you want to see what's around you. Is it a big cafeteria? Is it a small desks. And by using all five senses, you're gonna be ready, you're gonna be you're gonna know what's coming, you're gonna be better prepared for it. And even if you don't know the questions to the test, there's a lot of stuff you can visualize. And that's basically what visualization is just envisioning it and playing the picture in your head.
Podcast Host 12:19
Yeah, well, I know what happens when the opposite of that happens. Like when you are not mentally prepared. I'll give you an example. From my days as a school student, I had my cousin's wedding on the same day as I had an exam. And I had to go to Sydney for the wedding. And I was based in Melbourne. So all I could think about really, for the whole duration of the exam, was getting in a taxi and flying to Sydney. And I like completely bombed in the exam, I was a, you know, I felt pretty strong in the subject area. But come the exam day, I just couldn't think about sitting down visualizing the exam, taking my time and doing all the right things. All I could think about was stressing about getting the plane to Sydney. So it was a real, like, complete non good example for, I guess, anything to do with psychology. But you're right, like, going through the steps, just giving yourself the time and space to visualize it and make sure that you're present in that moment is super important. But yes, sports psychology is a very interesting field. And it's interesting that from a young age, you're able to see that that is what you want your career path to be. And it can be a bit of a challenge for students to figure that out when there's not too many options in terms of work experience, or you can't really get an insight into the life of a psychologist because of patient doctor confidentiality. So how have you been able to gain that experience know that sports psychology or psychology in general is for you?
Brandon 13:47
Yeah. So I'll just kind of take you back into my own sports, because that kind of relates to the question. So basically, I started this organization, as I said, like last year, and in that summer, like right before I started it, I actually took an AP psychology course over the summer. And I learned about all the subfields of psychology and I saw sports psychology. It was a big 500 page textbook, but one little paragraph about sports psychology. I was like, I was intrigued by it. I read the paragraph a couple times. And I was pretty interested that my two favorite fields were combined. And I kind of just did more research on it. I was the small paragraph. They didn't really give me much info. It's pretty vague. And I want to learn more. So I looked at sports psychology, probably went through the first four Google pages, look through TED Talks, videos, navy seals are talking about sports psychology, and that's how I really got immersed to it first. And then I started reading some blogs to test my knowledge. And that's kind of how I got that experience and knowledge from sports psychology. And yeah, I agree. There's not really a place where you can go learn it until like you're in college until there's like a really specialized class. It's just usually general psychology in high school, and they don't really teach you about it. So that's why I think also if you if you're interested in sports, just To check out my Zen sports and see sports psychology is right for you if you're interested in it.
Podcast Host 15:04
Yeah, so it's been a bit of a journey for you to kind of feel it that it was the right path for you. Is there any part from Tim Grover, who you mentioned, is there any people that you follow or like you kind of are fans of as a result of their work in sports psychology or people who like, you know, admire in the field,
Brandon 15:23
so I follow a lot of sports psychology, podcasts, read some books. And I actually like Tim Grover, just going back to him, he wrote a book called relentless, and he talks about how he trains with Kobe Bryant and a bunch of accomplished athletes. And he talks about 13 things that make a person relentless. And a few examples of of around this person would be that they trust very few people and those they trust, they better never let you down. And being relentless means to trust yourself the most, and you have confidence in yourself. So that was one of the examples that I liked from him and his book. And he also said that these relentless athletes, they don't celebrate their achievements, because they always want more, they're always striving for something else. They're always pushing for a new goal. And another book that I liked was mind gym, by Gary Mac. And he explains why the performance of the top athletes is a combination of their physical and mental abilities. And the book shows you how you can cultivate the mindset of a top performer yourself. So I like three lessons that he wrote about in his book. So he said, smart goals, I'm sure a lot of people have talked to heard of smart goals, specific, measurable, achievable, realistic, and time bound. You want to create those goals. And that relates to sports as well. So if you want to make a become a better three point shooter, you want to make a SMART goal for yourself. And another lesson, he said was cultivate willpower with the seven C's of mental toughness, which would be competitiveness, courage, confidence, control, composure, consistency, and commitment. And the last lesson I loved was make love learning and labor, the three pillars of real life to succeed. And they're pretty simple. And they mean a lot, though, if you really think about it deeply. And you really understand what he's trying to say. I just thought it was pretty powerful and the way he wrote it, and I thought that was my biggest takeaway from those two books.
Podcast Host 17:09
Has this changed your life in the way you approach it? Because you've been learning about these principles of sport psychology?
Brandon 17:17
As a great question, first of all, changed my life, like how I function. So I've learned about these techniques and actually try to put them into play. So for example, before I even learned about sports, in college, I didn't really journal, I didn't have a gratitude journal and understand why that was important. I just thought was a waste of time to just write down stuff that I wouldn't really look back on. But yes, sports psychology has taught me a lot. So for example, the journal has taught me what I like, what are my goals? what triggers me? And what how do I try to stay away from it? So sports psychology has taught me who I am and who I want to be in the future. And sports or college has a lot of quotes and motivational quotes. And I just like to keep a stash of quotes that I like, and that really resonate with me. So I think those quotes kind of drive my lifestyle in a way.
Podcast Host 18:08
Yeah, can't read all this material and not have at least some changes to your life. While you're doing the gratitude journal. You know what, I have also gone through the exact same thing of like, tried it, done it a couple of times. I mean, like, what's the point? So, yeah, maybe I should get into really understanding deeply what the impact of it is. And then perhaps I'll probably continue doing it. Does that have been, I guess, the experience for you? Sometimes we like, oh, I've heard about it. But I don't really know what the benefit is. And then you read and then you learn and then you like, Oh, now I know. And I understand it a bit more.
Brandon 18:41
It's really a process, you're not the first time you write in a journal, the first time you meditate, there's going to be zero benefits, I'm almost guaranteeing you that but you got to just stick with it. Wait for a month, maybe wait for a couple months. And you're just going to realize naturally that benefits are coming, maybe you're getting more calm, maybe you're getting more clarity. And if you just stick with it, try to make it a habit. And once you make it a habit, it doesn't feel like a time hassle. You just it's kind of just like brushing your teeth every day. You just do it every day, and you just get it out the way. But it's good for you, right? Like you brush your teeth, you keep your teeth clean, keep your body clean. So I just kind of put it in that way that analogy.
Podcast Host 19:19
Yeah. Well, it's interesting that so many elements actually now I'm thinking about how similar in many respects the student life is to the life of an athlete in many ways, because school is a competitive environment, whether you like it or not like it is a competitive environment in many ways. It does require teamwork and a lot of ways that you're working with other students who are working with your teachers, you've got your mentors, your coaches or teachers wherever you want to put it. And so there's a lot of different lessons that can really come from sports psychology that can be very easily applied to the student life. Has there been anything that has particularly helped you to be like a better quote unquote, or more academic student, you know, in terms of the day discipline and the motivation to study actually one thing that I like, if I was to, you know, kind of look at motivation in particular, which I think is an interesting concept, and there's something I'd be interested to get your thoughts on. But I've heard that, you know, people shouldn't rely on motivation too much that motivation is like a bit of a myth, really. And you shouldn't ask yourself, Am I motivated to do this particular task? It should be like, Am I healthy? Do I have time? Just do it? Like, still, you know, like the Nike, I guess, slogan there, it is really just that you're taking out that motivational question and just doing it, that might be a lesson that a lot of athletes have to learn to make sure that they are going to training all the time that they are showing up early for swimming, training, whatever it might be, is that kind of lesson there applicable to the student life?
Brandon 20:51
Yeah, I like to bring that up, because I'll actually wanted to address it. So everyone says that you should be motivated to play sports. And that's true. If you have motivation, that's actually really good, because you're gonna want to strive more just like maybe Kobe Bryant, he's always motivated, you wanted to be at the top, always constantly practiced, and he never got the court. And sometimes, especially at the high school age and college age, you're just not going to feel like you want to practice, you just want to sit on the bed, watching Netflix and just not get on the court and practice. And, yeah, that's true, you should just if you have time, and you have energy, and you're not sick, or present a big, traumatic moment, for example, that happened in your life, practice, because if you really want to be up there, you're gonna have to outwork everyone else. And if someone else's motivation level is higher than yours, they're gonna outwork you, and the bar is just gonna keep getting higher and higher. So you have to really push yourself. So it's kind of like half and half motivation is important. But you shouldn't solely rely on it. Definitely not. And yeah, if you have that intrinsic motivation of really wanting to be get at the top plant, the top level, that's a bonus. So that would be my biggest advice for that.
Podcast Host 21:57
Yeah. Well, I think it's interesting, when you look at that court analogy, a basketball analogy, in that a lot of students can use that practice like that willpower just to get out and go and use that in other areas of life, like, there may never be a top basketball up. But even just having that willpower to get up and go, is going to be applied to other areas of your life. Yeah, 100%.
Brandon 22:23
And just one more thing I know, you asked the question before, like, how is sports translated to my life and how it can help a student, like, generally, and I try to answer that real quick. So with my time in sports, I definitely know about sports psychology and those mental resources. So whenever I had a bad game, or I didn't feel well, or I was anxious, I didn't really know how to like bounce back from I didn't have anything, I just went on to the next, I just hope for the best and tried to trust my skills, but it was difficult. So it kind of naturally made me have a growth mindset. And I'm sure a lot of people have heard of that term. But basically, it's just that you're always looking to improve, and you know that you're just not at a fixed point, you can always better yourself by targeting your mistakes and working towards that. So I kind of had to do that through sports. Because if I didn't, I wouldn't be getting time on the court. Because I'll just, as you get older, the competition gets harder and harder. So naturally, that was instilled in me. And that growth mindset, also translated to school. So if I got a bad math test score, maybe I would see why I got that wrong, and how I could improve it what I have to do more practice problems, was it a stress thing? Or was it a content matter? So when you really try to understand what the root of the problem is, I think that's the most important thing and then just attack that you just focus on it. set some time aside, and really strive to be better.
Podcast Host 23:43
Absolutely. Well, I want to shift gears a little bit and talk a bit more about your podcast. Obviously, it's an interest of mine as a fellow podcaster. Why did you decide to launch a podcast alongside a website and Instagram or Twitter sounded like you had a lot of other things going on? I mean, you could have just turned it into a blog and wrote some articles there. Or, you know, as a lot of people tend to do these days, just, you know, create content on Instagram day after day after day. What was the thinking behind creating a podcast? And how's that journey been for you?
Brandon 24:13
Yeah, definitely. So as you said, we have blogs and social media and podcast. So our target audience is for younger student athletes. So that could be high school athletes and down middle school, elementary school. And I know personally, like when I was younger, and I know a lot of my friends didn't want to read blogs, they're like, oh, it takes too long as too much mental power. But a podcast is just, you listen to it. When you're running outside and you're exercising, just put on your headphones and you just listen, press play, and you don't touch it and you just absorb the information. It's very easy to get the information and get out of there instead of having to like read, find the most important points. So that was kind of my thinking. And also the podcast route is complementing my blogs. And I have a bunch of writers writing my blog and they address different topics and we try to have a guest speaker on that topic. to shed more light on that topic and maybe give more expert advice, and yeah, so those two kind of go hand in hand, and we just try to really delve deep into it and provide good content.
Podcast Host 25:12
What are some of the challenges in launching a podcast? And when you guys it's like finding a guest publishing on a regular basis, the editing side, I don't particularly enjoy the editing side, I'm chatting with guests. But what are some of the the issues and challenges that you face that other students might face if they would start a podcast?
Brandon 25:30
First of all, for me, starting the podcast was intimidating, oh, my God, when I was talking to my first guest, I just was nervous. I didn't know what I was doing. I didn't know how to conduct the podcast. But I've learned and I'm sure have you learned as well that you got to just go with the flow be conversational like, and you just kind of get the gist of it when you just keep doing it over and over. So that was my first major problem. And yeah, also finding guests was a big time hassle. And you need to find a guest that has good advice, is qualified, has time and is willing to share their knowledge. So that's a lot that goes into it, then you have to coordinate the time as well, finding good time. And it's just really a lot of logistical stuff. And also, as you said, the editing stuff I have gratefully, I have some podcast editors on my team. And they'd actually like to edit podcast, I'm not a big fan of that. So I just hand it off to them. And they actually enjoy that. So it's pretty cool. And we kind of have like a little operation going. And I think that's just the most efficient way. So I think anybody who wants to start podcasts out there, it's just, I actually just listen to krimson podcast, my podcast and just get a gist of it, how it runs and kind of just model off it. And that's what kind of added
Podcast Host 26:41
Yeah, we'll be you know, obviously, we're doing the interview format, I think you're doing Yeah, for my design, sports, and obviously top of the classes, interview format podcast. But really like if you know, if you've got a mate, for instance, who's really passionate about sport, and you want to discuss examples of really good sports psychology, you've got something that you can do without having to find guests all the time, which can be a real challenge. And I'm going to guess for your side of things like, you can find just sports psychologists to come on to the show, or you can find athletes and how they interact with sport psychology or coaches and how they use sport psychology as part of their athletes training programs. And like what part part it plays, etc. So there's a lot of other people that play a role in sport. And they all have something in common, which is an interest in sports psychology, always a good idea to start a podcast, I think it's a great way to kind of widen your networks and definitely deepen your knowledge in the area as well, right? Like you're asking these amazing people, all these amazing questions. And you're getting all this information as well as a student who is aiming to study sports psychology in university, right?
Brandon 27:49
Oh, yeah. I think sports psychology up there, I think I want to do something in psychology is probably like sports psychology, forensic psychology, cognitive psychology. But yeah, I'm definitely aiming towards that sports side, but definitely in the psychology realm.
Podcast Host 28:02
Yeah. Yeah. somewhere about that. And is there any particular university that you have in mind?
Brandon 28:07
Oh, I'm not sure yet. Because I'm a sophomore. And I'm just, I'm trying to live in the present. And just really, as you said, like, enjoy High School, and really grow minds on sports. And I'm just hoping that will take me to a good university somewhere.
Podcast Host 28:22
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Well, Brandon, if there's any place where people can check out your podcast, mind design sports, we'll put the link in the show notes. Is there any other way that students can get in contact with you?
Brandon 28:33
Yeah, so if you just go to our website, they'll have all the links there. So Instagram, Twitter, and we also have a YouTube where we just post a podcast as well. And we also plan to do some YouTube videos in the future. So stay tuned for that. And me personally, I have a LinkedIn and you can search up my name.
Podcast Host 28:49
Well, I'm sure that a great place to start is mine design sports, so we'll leave those link in the in the shownotes. Brandon it's been fantastic having you on and I look forward to sharing the episode far and wide.
Brandon 28:58
Alex, thanks so much for having me on. It was a blast.
Podcast Host 29:00
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