Star Trek Discovery, S5 is the best one yet (pt.2)

Jen G. And host Y. M. Nelson continue the discussion of Star Trek Discovery Season 5, including rating the series and the season.

Chapters

• 0:00 Ep. 59 Star Trek Discovery S5 Part 2
• 1:18 Culber and his shared body experience
• 5:15 Individual change and Found Family
• 20:46 Romance Tropes in Star Trek: Discovery, S5
• 29:00 Easter Eggs from S5
• 33:44 The Library that no one messes with
• 37:45 Memorable Quotes
• 42:53 Goodreads Rating

Transcript

Y. M. Nelson: In this episode of Nerdy Romantics Podcast, we're continuing our discussion of Star Trek Discovery Season 5, or the final season of Star Trek Discovery. We're going to continue talking about Culber and his shared body experience after the trill Zianh'tara we'll get into a little bit of the other characters and their changes as well as talk about found family.

We can't leave without talking about easter eggs and romance tropes. Who knew? And we have to mention the library from episode 8. Then we'll end the discussion with some memorable quotes, and we're also going to give this one a Goodreads rating. I bet you can probably imagine what it is. So, stay tuned!

 This is the Nerdy Romantics Podcast and I'm your host, YM Nelson. 

[00:01:18] Culber and his shared body experience

Jen G.: Right. So, and then he, so he had the shared body experience and that was part of him. And so, his question about how much of that, how much of that changed him and, and who they, who, who he became as a result of that. And, and then in the scene with the Progenitor, the way that Moll the it's explained, cause Moll wants to use the Progenitor, I guess we're just doing all the spoilers, but Moll the Progenitor to.

That's just how we are. You know, to bring, to bring L'Ak back to life, right? He, they, he, she wants him to be alive again. And the Progenitor talks about how, you know, they can, you know, the, the cells are, they can, they can essentially, they're making a clone. They would make, be able to make a clone of them, but all the memories are gone.

The, the memories that made him who he is and the person that she loves, those are going to be gone. They have, that’s what happens when, when someone has passed. So those memories are gone. And so even though she could get right, the same look right. You get the same look and and person. But because because of the loss of the memories, they are not they are not the person that you loved.

And I love what Culber sort of how Culber sort of comes to the conclusion that that all the that the experience that he had is just it's just a piece of him and a part of him. And it doesn't have to have It doesn't have to have parameters. It doesn't have to have explanation. He can sit with the wonder, with the, not the, not like in terms of wonder, like questions, but wonder of, oh, this is neat. I don't, okay. Let's just see what happens here. And just the wonderment of the universe that he has about what, how this is going to, how it changed him. And he doesn't have to have an answer today. 

That's what I mean by I just feel like he'd be such a good like a, a good friend to have because we all have to remember that a lot of times we're gonna go through something and we're gonna have an experience, positive or, or negative or, or neutral or what have you, but we are not going to immediately be able to classify what that experience means to us or how that experience changed us.

Right. And so those experiences that we have are well going are going to reveal themselves. To us over time, and there's a beautiful little thing about the about memory, the memory will reveal itself when it's needed. And, and that's what happens and with him and Book in the little shuttle thing. 

Y. M. Nelson: Right. Yeah.

Jen G.: right? He, there was something he needed and he was able because of his experience, he was able to have the information that they needed and and, and how, you know, How wonderful that that was.

So, like I said, we don't know how we don't know how experiences are going to impact us later. Or we can't necessarily assign meaning to them. We just sort of have to accept that experience has happened and we're going to go forward and strive to be the strive to be a better person tomorrow. That's all we got.

Y. M. Nelson: Right. Yeah. And if we could plan out those experiences, life would be kind of boring. Where, where do we learn? Where do we grow?

Jen G.: Yeah, and I think that's that's part of the whole thing with the time travel, right? Is that we can is that you want to keep the past the past? Because if you change something in the past, right, then the future doesn't become the futurist future anymore, right? You get a different future as a result.

There's a, there's the path not taken and you'll never know where that path might have taken you. Not, it doesn't mean good or it doesn't mean bad. It doesn't, it's not that. It's just that that's no longer your path. And, and and, and recognizing that, that, that there's value in where you are.

[00:05:15] Individual change and Found Family

Y. M. Nelson: Exactly. But but yeah, so, there's a, there are, there are a lot of changes in individuals. But I think too, with this particular series, there's a lot of them growing together as a family.

Jen G.: Yeah. Yeah. 

Y. M. Nelson: and I love how that kind of manifests or kind of You know, and especially in that last episode, in that last episode where we, you know, kind of all see him come together and then we see Michael's family, like actual nuclear family, happen and things like that. It just shows that, They are, they're a bit unique, based on not just shared experience, like maybe a TNG or a Voyager, they have shared experience, but also that they, actually a lot of them grew up together, right? As, as far as, you know, they, they became the people who they are in Season 5, because they were not these people in Season 1. You know?

Jen G.: That's what I really love to see. And that was not all television shows make that choice to allow their characters to grow into a different person. Right? 

Y. M. Nelson: So many of them, they do it. And, you know, and it's like, they grow into different people, but they're also people that we recognize.

Jen G.: Mm hmm. 

Y. M. Nelson: Right. You 

Jen G.: There's much more of a, that interpersonal growth and interpersonal relationships. And I, and I'll pretty much all of the Star Treks are, are found family, right? We find ourselves on a, on a starship or on a on a space station, or we find ours, like, you know, we're sort of all forced together, but, but I think you're right.

And that this one, this one takes it a few steps further because the partners become. Part of the family as well. And there's not nearly as much partnering that happens in some of the other series where we have Saru. We, we get a, a, a wedding for Saru. We have Culber and Stamets who are in a healthy relationship together.

We didn't even talk about, what's her name?

Y. M. Nelson: T'rina? With Saru? 

Jen G.: Yeah, we didn't even talk about like how their relationship is also built on, on respect and on trust and on and on, and on love. And it looks so different than the other relationships in the book. The series but is, but it's also, but it is one that has those same elements to it.

And it's such a beautiful partnership. We have but we've, we've seen these, we've seen so many of these other like partners come into the story and be important and find their own place within the found family.

Y. M. Nelson: You're totally, you know what, you're totally right about that. And you're, and you're, as I'm thinking about this, as you're saying this, you're right about the other Star Treks. It doesn't happen like that. When we, aside from Tasha Yar, you know, leaving, in the way that she does. TNG, the core of TNG, who we see in the very beginning, is the same core of people that we see at the end around the poker table. And it's still the same core of people that we see in Star Trek: Picard, to be honest. But

Jen G.: Yeah.

Y. M. Nelson: we see people who are maybe not, you know, in that headline guest star, you know, role. But they're, you know coming in and maybe recurring, but they are just as important. hmm. And they become the characters that we want to see. 

Like the, the the T'rina and Saru partnership. I was saying to you before we started that that is one of the most equitable relationships that I have ever seen on TV. Like there's no, there's no necessarily roles there, you know, or there are a bunch of roles that make them who they are, but to me, it's T'rina being who she is, and Saru being who he is, and them realizing that they have this wonderful connection and and like being in each other's space

Jen G.: Yeah. Connection that they have with each other. They fit together like Legos, you know, you know, there's like this, this complimentary where they're not the same. 

There's for other, you know, in other, other couples, you see, there's like, there's a sameness, you know, that you between the folks, there's the compassion that we see, in Culber is, is mirrored in Stamets, right? It's not exactly the same, but there's a mirror there where you see, you see that the two of them strong in similar ways. And for Michael and Book, we see them as they're both very smart very strategic very brave very willing to jump into the fight. They're going to be, they're going to lead the charge. They're both like that. And there's and that's both. A wonderful thing to see, and it also is the source of some of the problems that they 

Y. M. Nelson: Oh, right. 

Jen G.: Where for Saru and and to

Y. M. Nelson: T'rina.

Jen G.: T'rina, thank you. I don't know why that's not in my head. I don't have the right page open on my notes. That's the problem. But for Saru and T'rina, we see them she's not similar to him in that way. You know, she is complementary to him. In a whole different way than 

Y. M. Nelson: They com Yes. They complement each other very well. Like, that's They complement each other. so amazingly well that the few little issues that they have, like she wanted to announce their engagement, and he's like, well, I don't know, we should do that, you know, blah blah blah, and all that kind of stuff. The few little things that they have, they talk through it, and they, and they reach an agreement. It's like This is the stuff that they kind of teach you about in marriage counseling. You see it.

Jen G.: Yes. Right.

Y. M. Nelson: perfect example of, you know, what they teach you in marriage counseling. 

Jen G.: are both all, they're both really strong communicators and and she is you know, sort of communicating with her logic and he communicates with her as hard, but it's all about the communication between them. 

Y. M. Nelson: And, and it's funny because what, you know, it's not funny, but it's also really cool that they're amazing communicators, but they are also amazing when they are just together in silence,

Jen G.: Mm hmm.

Y. M. Nelson: do a lot of, they do several meditation episode- not episodes, but yeah. it's-

Jen G.: It's so beautiful to see them together. Yeah.

Y. M. Nelson: It's, it's like, okay. You know, that's kind of, you know, well, I, I shouldn't say, I shouldn't say that. That's not what everybody wants. Right. But to, to, to me, somebody that you can be for me, somebody that you can be comfortable being silent around is a

Jen G.: Mm hmm. Yeah.

Y. M. Nelson: have to talk around them. You're just comfortable in silence.

Jen G.: To be comfortable. Yeah, that comfort is yeah, that's something to seek out is to find comfort in, in the people that you surround yourself with. And it looks different for a lot of different people, but for them, that silence is one of the, is, is definitely a, because there's no tension.

You can see, you can see how peaceful that silence is for them. And silence isn't peaceful for everyone.

Y. M. Nelson: Exactly. Exactly. It's not peaceful for

Jen G.: Yeah. So, the so it and the ways that they are different, that's something that they are, that's, that's a way that they are the same. 

Y. M. Nelson: Yeah. And kind of getting back to also what you were saying about found family and also connecting that with, you know, TNG episodes. You know, to see Stamets and Culber you know, who are already married, end up with a family, you know, with Adira, and sort of adopting them, right?

Jen G.: Mm-hmm

Y. M. Nelson: It, it's just, you don't see that on a lot of, in fact, going back to TNG you know, Picard hated his children. He didn't hate children, but he was uncomfortable around children.

Jen G.: Right? Yeah.

Y. M. Nelson: he finds out, but, but we all know he's, is comfortable around kids, as

Jen G.: Mm-hmm . 

Y. M. Nelson: from different episodes, right? But. You know, you only see little snippets of family in different areas, you know, like you know, on Voyager you know, there's , a birth on, well, there are a couple of births on Voyager, but in the beginning, there's a birth on Voyager, but but, you know her mom is there on Voyager, but her dad is back, you know, in the Alpha Quadrant. And then of course, you know at the end of Voyager, you know, we see you know a birth there, but we don't know how that family's gonna turn out, but we see a lot of broken families in Voyager, I guess.

In TNG there's there's Alexander and Worf, and of course that, carries over to DS9, of course, that relationship that goes on there. And, you know, we don't see a lot of, you know, coming together as a family.

And then there's this whole thing about Being on the Starship and being in Starfleet and, you know, family is not necessarily encouraged, and, or, you know,

Jen G.: Oh, yeah. I

Y. M. Nelson: but, they're okay with family, even more so than, maybe other, other races

Jen G.: mean, you sort of have the Riker, Diana, 

Y. M. Nelson: Yeah, 

Jen G.: relationship, but even, but even that relationship is not really played as as, as like a relationship dynamic. It's sort of a, oh, you know, these guys have eyes for each other, you know off, off camera 

Y. M. Nelson: have eyes for each other. They have history. And then, of course, in Picard, we see that they come together, but then they got problems in Picard. Right.

Jen G.: Yeah.

Y. M. Nelson: After that happens. So, I think here in Discovery with the whole theme of found family big and it's positive in a way that it's not in any of the other series so far. 

Jen G.: Yeah. You bring, there's, there's much more family family and, and relationship baggage that comes into the forefront of the story. You know, there's I mean, early early on, we see Michael dealing with her mom too. And that is, that's like a, a real a real key theme through the series.

So yeah, so there's, there's all these different ways of, of how people How, how people work. And I, and that's also one of the things I really like about Star Trek as as a universe is that, is that they can use these different shows to explore different types of things. Right. There's TNG. I feel like has an undercurrent of exploring humanity through data and the questions that data asks and what it means to be in terms of what it means to be human in terms of what it means to be you know, to, to have to be able to explore and, and bring something else to, to the world and to the, to the galaxy.

Where in, in Discovery, we really, we have, there's so many different, every season is a different, every season is different. And and there's something I really love about that. And I love that they did so many different kinds of adventures. And in this, we have a time travel one. We have a, we have a desert planet one.

We have you know, running through the trees you know, in search of water. One. We have, you know, there's these you know, we have the big science question ones. So we have a, we have all these different kinds of things that we can explore through Discovery that that always, you know, at the baseline comes back to the question about relationships and who you are and, and what are the choices that you make in a way that's, that's different than the way that the other Star Trek shows play out.

Y. M. Nelson: Exactly. And, you know, and not just who you are, but who you want to go through these things with.

Jen G.: Yeah. Who do you want around you? Yeah,

Y. M. Nelson: It's it's about that as well. Which goes back to found family goes back to people kind of discovering who they are but yeah, we're talking real deep about this one.

Jen G.: I know.

Y. M. Nelson: let's so let's shift let's shift the gear and talk about some fun stuff.

But you know before we leave the deep it is deep, but I also feel I, I did want to echo and to agree with what you said about Star Trek Universe. It, every, I, I mean, maybe aside from Lower Decks, but even with, even with some in Lower Decks, but Lower Decks is just a fun time around. But. With every series in the Star Trek universe, they are exploring a deep issue of what it means to be, to live in this world, right?

Jen G.: Yeah.

Y. M. Nelson: human, even though they're not human, a lot

Jen G.: Yeah.

Y. M. Nelson: right? But

Jen G.: There is humanity. Yeah. Exploring your humanity.

Y. M. Nelson: And, you know, and exploring the issues of, basically what we deal with today as, as people. You know, a lot of that is echoed in here and it's just amazing how you can go back and you can be like, wow, this episode of whatever the series is, you know, this was on 20 years ago and we're dealing with this right now. It's like, what?

[00:20:46] Romance Tropes in Star Trek: Discovery, S5

Y. M. Nelson: You know, so much you can learn about yourself from Star Trek and humanity as a whole But to go to some of the fun things And because this is not just nerdy, but this is also Nerdy Romantics,

Jen G.: Heck yeah.

Y. M. Nelson: I know Jen, our romance connoisseur, I know she picked out some tropes. And I want to know what they are because, you know, I was watching this as a nerdy person, except for Michael- Booker. I'm not gonna lie. I was like, romance tropes? Please do tell.

Jen G.: So, okay. Well, let's talk about Michael 

Heck yeah.

Y. M. Nelson: I know Jen, our romance connoisseur, I know she picked out some tropes. And I want to know what they are because, you know, I was watching this as a nerdy person, except for Michael Booker. I'm not gonna lie. I was like, romance tropes? Please do tell.

Jen G.: So, okay. Well, let's talk about Michael and, and, and, and Booker, right? We have Second Chance Romance. Obviously, right? They, they were in a relationship. They were not in a relationship. They're back together. They're not back together. Like, we've got a few different, different iterations of them and figuring out, okay, is this, is this what it is?

Right? We've got I love the couples in love against all odds, right? All the different things that pull them apart. 

We have we have the, guess I'm giggling. Okay. And the time travel. In the time travel episode, they're bouncing kind of all around and she has to go to her cabin and, and grab something without being seen. And then Booker comes in after a workout.

Y. M. Nelson: It's like, 

Jen G.: at that point in time, they are a couple that shares a bedroom. And so he is there and is like, he's ready to go take a shower. And. He, you know, it's not about the sexy times, except that he does take off his shirt. And now she Has to have a conversation with him as the person That he is in love with and she is very distracted and it's clear. You can see it like a marquee across her forehead. Why did we break up? Hold on. I

Y. M. Nelson: why did I leave him? What's

Jen G.: on this and that could be, this could be a part of my life. And what what was, I think, I can't remember why, but they have that, but they have a really wonderful you know, exchange and, and like most couples in a committed relationship as, as she is. Leaving to go do the things she has to do.

She has four and a half minutes to get there. And he says, I love you. And she has to pause and say, I love you too. And, and what that, you know, what it means for, for her to have to say that. So we've got like a few minutes of a fake relationship on her side. So so we love that. 

We did not broach the subject at all, but L'Ak is secretly a prince.

Y. M. Nelson: Right! 

Jen G.: a secret prince.

Y. M. Nelson: I love it! I 

Jen G.: And, you know, in a lot of the dark romance novels, one of the things that, that we see in, in terms of the how the, the couple sort of comes together is a lot of times the man has the, it's usually the male character who has this, this sort of attitude. I will do anything to save. The love of my life.

And here we have Moll. Moll is going to do anything partner with anybody, you know, double cross the entire universe in order to save the person that she loves. And we love, we love commitment, right? We love when there is a commitment 

Y. M. Nelson: She, she's very much an alpha, an alpha heroine

Jen G.: yeah, she's that, yeah, she's the alpha there. And I don't know, it's something about L'Ak is just a little bit more.

He's. He's, he's much more low key and she is, you know, she's the one that's like the aggressive excuse me, the aggressive person,

Y. M. Nelson: You know, but I, you know, I think part of that is, because he is hiding that he's a prince and because he's locked into a certain role. And she's like, I'm in love with you, we're in love, you got to get out of this role. So, part of that is he needs to evolve and change, and he is having trouble doing that.

Whereas our Discovery crew, they evolve and change, but he's having a problem doing that. And part of it is because he is a prince. I mean, you know, it's kind of hard to, I mean,

Jen G.: but he wants to, but he wants to escape, right? He's a reluctant prince. He's the reluctant prince and he doesn't want to, 

Y. M. Nelson: he doesn't even want to take the throne after this. He doesn't want to take the throne. He doesn't, yeah. He, he 

Jen G.: why would he?

Y. M. Nelson: the successor. You know, he just wants 

Jen G.: you know, he has a lot of disagreements with the way that that that world is run, and he doesn't want to be a part of it. 

So, you know, we have that we have... and I also, I liked the it's not completely a marriage in trouble, but we have kind of a marriage in trouble with the Stamets and and Culber because Culber is questioning sort of 

Y. M. Nelson: Mm 

Jen G.: he is and what's going on with him and, and wonders if this changes their ability to be in a relationship together. You know, he has, he has some very serious questions and isn't quite sure how he wants to he doesn't know what the answers are.

And and that's why I really, really appreciate that when, that as he kind of figures things out, that it's okay to not have the answers. And and Book and Michael kind of do the same thing. They just sort of, they next they're next to the river or like, they've kind of wandered off from the, from the wedding and they are sort of like, well, I, I don't know what the future holds.

I don't, you know, I can't, well, yeah, but maybe, maybe uncertainty is where we need to be, right. Maybe, maybe what we just decide is that we go through it together and. And see what happens and that at the end of the day, honestly, that's what every relationship is. Nobody has a guarantee, you know, there's there's always somebody says something in rom coms and in a lot of romantic things about, well, I've never had a serious relationship.

Yeah. Okay. That's fine. That doesn't mean that this one won't be your serious relationship, right? You could. We all have to, you know, different people have, have serious relationships at different times and at different points in their life. And, and it's, you know, when you find the right person, then you take a chance with that person.

 That's a big part of, I feel like some of these relationships and then, and that the person, the person is all of their memories. And all of their experiences make them who they are and that person is worthy of love and who they are, where they are, all the things that they've gone through, all the things that they've lost, all the mistakes that they've made, that that person is worthy of love and and that we have that.

Not only in like the, the Michael and Book sort of, of, of place, but this but the, the Stamets and Culber space, we have that in the, the Saru and the, and, 

Y. M. Nelson: and T'rina. Yeah.

Jen G.: My gosh.

Y. M. Nelson: It's

Jen G.: I went two pages too far away from my notes about them. But they are who they are and, and you have to love people for who they are without making a big, you know, I'm going to change them sort of feeling.

And you don't get that from any of these couples where somebody has to be changed in order to be loved. They just have to be loved. And that's, that is a truly beautiful 

Y. M. Nelson: yeah. And I need to meet you where you are. And, and if, you know, if we can't do that, then we don't need to be together. But yeah. Exactly. So, oh, right. So, romance tropes. Yeah. Okay.

[00:29:20] Easter Eggs from S5

Y. M. Nelson: All right. I see it. I see it all, and I'm, and I'm loving it all. And of course, in true fashion, I have my nerdy Easter eggs, and I'm just gonna mention a few of them here.

Jen G.: Okay. All right. Let's hear it. 

Y. M. Nelson: Because we already know the big one is is that this whole season is from TNG, season 6, Episode 20, and them going off to different worlds is also kind of like what they did in that episode, which I love. 

One of those One of those worlds, as we know, is Trill, and, of course, we talked a lot about Culber, but Culber goes through what they call a Zhian'tara and the first time we see that is in DS9, where Jadzia has a Zhian'tara, and remember, you know, there were some fun moments in that. But there was also, there were also some not fun moments. One of the fun moments is Quark ends up becoming Audrey, I think is one of the female ones, one of the female hosts that Jadzia had for a while. You know Torias was Dr. Bashir, and he was all, I'm Torias and then Odo was Curzon, and Curzon didn't want to go back that was one of the things with, with that Zhian'tara. 

And then, of course, at, by this time Jadzia found out that Joran was also one of her pass hos, and Joran was a murderer. So, they had, remember Captain Sisko* was Joran, and they had to put him in a a holding cell during that Zhian'tara

Jen G.: okay, 

Y. M. Nelson: Yeah, and yeah, so Zhian'tara is the whole process of where Culber is inhabited by one of the past hosts for a temporary amount of time. So he's not joined, but he's It's just inhabited, is the best thing I can say. 

In that same episode, they were talking about yeah, I got a pet, somebody has a pet Tribble, but the pet Tribble is neutered. I thought that was funny. I was like, how can you have a pet Tribble and not have a million of those pet tribbles? Yeah, cause it's neutered. 

And also with this, this is another thing with L'Ak that we didn't mention. But this is a nerdy easter egg, is that L'Ak is a Breen. 

Jen G.: Huh,

Y. M. Nelson: And the thing about Breens, and this is kind of a thing that we see it more so in DS9 because in the war, the Breen come into the war in the end. But the Breen have these hood things on, and they never take them off. And here, we actually see what the Breen looked like under the hood.

Jen G.: You're right 

Y. M. Nelson: things. Remember when they were talking about, you see your we see your face and why are you showing the ugly face and all this other kind of stuff that they were saying? Like, in a couple of the episodes when they were, doing the flashback as to why L'Ak and Moll are on their own because the Breen never take their hood things off. And so other races are wondering what the Breen like, look like under their hoods. 

Also, that it's really cold on Breen. That's another thing. 

And the last clue of the Progenitor's tech is in the Badlands. And we know the Badlands from DS9 and from Voyager because the Badlands is where the Maquis would hide and because it was a place that you really it had a lot of plasma storms and all this stuff

Jen G.: oh,

Y. M. Nelson: And the fact that the last clue is in the Badlands. They had to kind of navigate all of that and And you know that that's also part of you know the defense of it right? Because the Badlands was a bad place 

In episode 8, they mention something about a nucleonic emitter. And that goes back to an episode of TNG, where Picard is hit by this beam in this archive. And that's also the episode where his actual son plays his son. On the episode. Yeah.

Jen G.: oh, that's cool,

[00:34:05] The Library that no one messes with

Y. M. Nelson: So that's cool. But that's also this was another thing. This is not an easter egg, but this was just another thing that was just really cool that I wanted to mention. Also, in that episode in the badlands there's this library. Remember? THAT LIBRARY WAS COOL AS CRAP, WASN'T IT?

Jen G.: oh my god,

Y. M. Nelson: Oh,

Jen G.: wait, where is that, where are those 

Y. M. Nelson: Oh, God. Okay, she has notes. I'm gonna have to wait for all these notes. But I will say while she's looking for notes, that library could dismember or kill you. The library was like, it was like above and beyond like a Harry Potter kind of thing. It was like, it was changing.

Jen G.: my 

Y. M. Nelson: It was, yeah, it was, it was going

Jen G.: oh my god, I love a library, one, love a library, two, love a librarian, Hy'Rell, 

Y. M. Nelson: Hy'Rell was awesome. Hy'Rell was so fun.

Jen G.: Okay. So so one of the things Hyrell, of course, a librarian, archivist, is going to be the person who sees Book,

Y. M. Nelson: Yes. Yes. Hooray.

Jen G.: knows what Book needs, right? And and gives him the world root. And literally gives him roots, gives him an anchor after his, you know, his, his feeling of not having of not having a, a world, not having an anchor. So of course, of course Hy'Rell does that for him.

And then, okay, I love this a little bit. Let me see if I can like make it kind of short because we haven't really talked about Rune at all, which is fine. But so, so Rune is sort of sort of out of control. Right. And and, Rune is like, okay, well, I'll give you this if you, but don't destroy the archive. And then Rune's like, yeah, fine. And then Rune decides, oh no, I'm totally going to destroy the archive. And a lot of people around him are like, I don't think you 

Y. M. Nelson: Right. You should not do that. Yeah. 

Jen G.: You know why? Book banning is wrong. 

Y. M. Nelson: That's it! That's exactly it!

Jen G.: If you want to ban books, you're the villain. Guaranteed. And so Moll is like, even Moll, this is where we know that Moll is not the villain. This is where we know that Moll is not the villain. Cause Moll sees this and is like, Oh, no, no, no, we're not doing this. So, she forms a mutiny. Okay. And, and Rune dies. 

Y. M. Nelson: Mm hmm.

Jen G.: was like, every fiber of my being is like, that's right. That's what happens to book banners.

Y. M. Nelson: right. Warning to the book banners out there.

Jen G.: Don't you dare go burning books. Because Moll is coming for you.

Y. M. Nelson: Right? That's it! That is it! I mean! Oh, if you, yeah. If you can't take anything away from, from Star Trek that's the thing. If that's the one thing you take away from it, that is the

thing. I mean, oh gosh. 

Jen G.: we've got, we've got that going for us now. I mean, you know, the flip side of that little conversation is, of course, that the, the great power goes into the black hole, but that it's not destroyed. 

Y. M. Nelson: Right. It's not

Jen G.: it's just hiding 

Y. M. Nelson: right. It 

Jen G.: it's there for for someone who needs it. So

Y. M. Nelson: Right. That's it. But yeah, I, I mean that library was everything. I, I'm, I'm like, oh yeah. Everything. But yeah, but so 

[00:38:05] Memorable Quotes

Jen G.: So, I have two other like last, like just final thoughts here. One is about Saru. And if we remember Saru and episode in the, or in the first season, he is, he's very he's a pretty passive guy. He's very smart, but he is but he's not, he's not a real like go getter. You know, charge forward kind of guy.

And here we have him in episode 10. I wrote it down. I have so many notes and I color coded them. Aren't you proud of me? So,

Y. M. Nelson: And I bet you wrote down

Jen G.: okay. What does he say? What does he say? He says, how does he convince to haul right to stay away? He Saru says. Look into my eyes and tell me if there is a flicker of doubt. 

Y. M. Nelson: you're right. Whoa. Yeah. And, and 

Jen G.: are full on bluffing your a$$ off. Sorry. You're, you are full on bluffing. have nothing, you got nothing. And it's like, there is a flicker of doubt. And you're like,

Y. M. Nelson: Whoa, exactly. And right after that, I wrote Saru is strong. Saru is not playing with you.

Jen G.: talk about characters growing and changing over the course of 

Y. M. Nelson: I mean, he's got a total arc.

Jen G.: Season one Saru could never, could never, 

Y. M. Nelson: by any 

Jen G.: but I love that he, he does that and then like, and then he sort of like has almost like a little giggle with, with, you're just like, those two are so cute.

Y. M. Nelson: They are, they are totally

Jen G.: They're just so cute. Okay. And then my one other, my one other quote was was where is that? As he says Culber. So Culber is like in the little in the shuttle thing with Book, and they are, they're trying to figure out about the tracking beam, and they can't allow the portal to like, the portal's gonna fall into the black hole, don't, you gotta save the portal, save the portal, and save Michael, and save Molly, save, save everything.

And, and so Book is like, Well, what about this? What about this? And, and , and he goes, I'm a doctor, not a physicist.

Y. M. Nelson: Right? Exactly! I don't know this! Ha ha ha

Jen G.: I love that they pulled that line from the, the original series. So 

Y. M. Nelson: That, that is McCoy's line. That is Dr. McCoy's line. I'm a doctor, not a whatever! And he would say a bunch of different things. I know! I love it too! 

And see, that's the thing. It's like, I think there's some other things. That's one thing that, you know, it did stand out. I think there's some other thing, little Easter eggs in here from TOS that just went like this for me. But but yeah, there, there are several, you know, now that I'm thinking about it, there are several things in that last episode. And that was, was that the last? Or was that the next to last? I think that was episode nine.

Jen G.: It might have been nine, it might have been nine. I, I couldn't remember. It kind of, kind of flows 

Y. M. Nelson: yeah. So, so those, the nine and the ten episodes, that was, those episodes, they had kind of the most, like, little Easter egg, kind of takeaways from it. Which I noticed that a lot of these newer series, they kind of do that in the last episodes. They kind of load up on the Easter eggs, which is so fun. Cool. It makes us Trekkies feel like, okay, you see us there. It's not just about giving us a new and different story. It's also about giving us a little bit of a sprinkling of you know, the, 

Jen G.: feel like it is. A lot of times, fanservice a lot of times gets a bad rap. Like, oh, it's just a fanservice. No, it, yeah, it is fanservice. I want to be, I want to feel like an insider. But I think this is, this is fanservice done extremely well. Because if you, if you have never seen, TNG or TOS. If you've never seen those, this whole series stands alone, 

Y. M. Nelson: Yeah. 

Jen G.: right?

You can, you can start with, you can start with season one, episode one, and watch a really fantastic a really fantastic sci fi television show. And the fact that it's Star Trek is cool, you know, maybe, maybe for some people, you know, you got to know a little bit of information about the about the Federation.

But it's kind of explained. So don't worry about it. So, it's a great, this is a great series for people that are not Trekkies to be able to come into and see and see and be a part of the world and fall in love with some characters and get something that is, that's a really fantastic show, like a standalone.

But for any of us that. That have these memories that remember that have seen the other series. And the other shows, oh, it's the Easter eggs that just go. I love it. I love it. I love it. Did you hear what they said? Yes. So,

[00:43:13] Goodreads Rating

Y. M. Nelson: exactly. But since you're, so since you're saying that, you know, you're, you're kind of giving a good review here, so what is your rating on this? From one star, we didn't like it, to five stars, we think it's amazing. 

Jen G.: A five-star show. I'm going to be honest with you. I feel like this show, like I said, I feel like it was so layered, and they took it in so many different directions and and while keeping the heart of the show consistent and being able to explore things in so many ways.

Every season has like a whole different adventure that's happening, but they maintain this ability to have that the core team as growing and learning and, and there's there's a beauty in that. So, I'm at five star on this one.

Y. M. Nelson: Yeah. I'm gonna have to agree with you. Five star on the whole, on the whole series. I'm also going to say that season one to me and season five, if we're rating just the season, season one and season five definitely get the higher ratings, right? They get the definite five stars. Yeah.

Jen G.: Yeah. Yeah.

Y. M. Nelson: I don't want to say they're kind of like bookends, but they're almost like bookends a little bit.

Jen G.: I think, I mean, I think bookends is a good way to put it. Yeah. They, they they did a lot of things very differently in this series, and and I just feel like it, it paid off. Yeah. 

Y. M. Nelson: And the thing is, it works as just kind of a whole you know, it kind of has that feel of like the first I guess that's the Infinity Saga of Marvel. You can tell somebody planned this out,

Jen G.: Mm-hmm

Y. M. Nelson: You can tell it wasn't showrunners who, you know, they got a pilot and a few other episodes, and they have no idea where to go. Because they don't know if they're gonna get picked up or whatever. You could tell this was definitely planned out. At least to a certain extent, but if it wasn't, they had me fooled. 

But but I agree as far as this show, you don't have to be a Trekkie to appreciate it. I know there's also some authors and writers who listen to, who listen to the podcast. And if you want a good character arc study, this is it. This is the ultimate, especially for my women's fiction writers out there who, the emotional journey is what a women's fiction book is all about, or relationship fiction, however you want, whatever you want to call it, women's fiction is a problematic title. But but that is, this, this is it. This is a character study right here. This is a study of character arcs, relationship fiction, how to, how to do that whole, I'm going from one place to another place. 

And like, and like we said, you know Saru is probably the only one that actually made a physical change but, but what he gained and everything else was emotional and, and, and, mental and how he saw himself, but this is it, right? This is that, that character study, and so for writers, this is a good one to watch and to have in your arsenal.

For Trekkies, this you know, is a good one to also watch. Watch because you do get a little bit of that fan service, especially in the seasons that that happen after they go into the future. 

But you know, another thing, and I think we might've mentioned this the last time we talked about Star Trek Discovery. For a universe Star Trek universe, the representation and what they did even in TOS with the first interracial kiss on TV, they already pushed the representation envelope and having women in a sci fi, you know, they already pushed the envelope. But here with Discovery, they really did representation.

Jen G.: Oh my gosh. They really did.

Y. M. Nelson: almost like, with each new series Except for maybe Picard, which is a a love which is a

Jen G.: That's a love letter. That's a love letter.

Y. M. Nelson: letter, you know that that's a TNG in its own bubble. But with each new series, we get a more progressive and more representation. You know, we have here, we have a non-binary character, we have a gay marriage. We have a Black woman female captain.

Jen G.: heck yeah! mm hmm, 

Y. M. Nelson: And, you know, we have a lot of relationships that go on here and a lot of different representation. Even from a sci fi perspective, it's a lot, and it's very much appreciated, especially for this nerdy Black woman here. 

Jen G.: We have, on the bridge the folks that, that are on the bridge also very diverse group and, and and playing different kinds of roles, right? In terms of, you know, we've had, consistently, we've had a lot of women communicators, and the communicator role is a little bit different. The engineering role, who's, you know, who are the people that are leading engineering, right? We have, we have a white man who's gay is the, the scientist element of it. And then, a lot of the operational engineering is led by by a large woman, and that's also something that we haven't seen before.

She's tall. She's not very thin. So having, having that type of body representation on board as well. And then we have I think Michael, I guess we'll see how other series end, but I think Michael might be the only captain who falls in love and then gets married.

Y. M. Nelson: Right. Exactly.

Jen G.: Yeah. 

Y. M. Nelson: Eh, eh, 

Jen G.: Not Picard and definitely not Kirk. Right. They all stay single. And we find out that not only does she fall in love and get married, but she becomes an admiral, too. 

Y. M. Nelson: You know, the only one that actually, yes, and the only one that actually does, but doesn't, is Captain Sisko, and he gets married, and he gets married against the Prophet's wishes. The Prophets did not want him to get married to Captain Yates. But they did get married at the very end, but of course, as we know, with, with DS9, they don't end up together. They, they were supposed to be together on Bajor. Remember he had that little house he was built? He had that little model of a house that he wanted to build. He had gotten some acres of land, but they end up not being together. And so, you're right. She is the only one that's gotten married, has a family, and is Admiral.

Jen G.: And there's an admiral,

Y. M. Nelson: I'm like, yes yes to all of this, you know. But yeah, so, again, five stars from both of us on this series. At some point, yes, we may talk about season four, but I think we really pretty much covered it right here.

Jen G.: quite a lot. We covered a lot of stuff here.

Y. M. Nelson: There's a lot more Star Trek to actually talk about because we have not even started on Star Trek: Strange New Worlds.

Jen G.: Yes. Love Strange New worlds. 

Y. M. Nelson: You know, it's already, at this recording, it's already in it's third season, I believe.

Or is it about to go to its fourth season? Or is it about to go to its third season? One or the other. It's definitely in its third season. And then in a month after we record this, we're recording this in December, so in January, there will be a movie on Paramount Plus, so don't, don't hang up your Paramount Plus subscriptions just yet. Cause there will be a movie called Section 31, which is starring Michelle Yeoh. Which she was Captain Georgiou on Discovery. And I can't wait to see that one.

Jen G.: saw that like teaser, not even like a trailer. I just saw a teaser and I was like, I love me some Michelle Yeoh. Bring it, bring it, bring it on. I cannot wait. Cannot wait to hear more about Michelle, yo, and what is ha- I don't care. I don't know what she's doing. I have no idea. I know, I know she's, there's, she was in Discovery, so I know it's a sort of a continuation of that character or some storyline with that character. It doesn't matter because you know what? She's gonna kill it. 

Y. M. Nelson: Yeah, 

Jen G.: gonna a thousand percent kill it. So, I can't wait to see what happens there with that one. And maybe this isn't the right, like, venue for it, but I'm just gonna point out that Below Decks is very charming. And 

Y. M. Nelson: Oh, yes. Yes, it is! It is! Yeah, this is Star Trek. It's a, it's a good view. It's a good view.

Jen G.: You know, it's it's, it's, it pulled the Star Trek universe into a whole different, uh, different tone, totally different, totally different way of thinking about it. And it's very charming and I, I I enjoy it quite a bit. So

Y. M. Nelson: And I believe at this, as of this recording, that one is in its last season, I believe.

Jen G.: potentially, yeah.

Y. M. Nelson: yeah, so so, yes, we have lots more Star Trek to talk about here. So, y'all have to stick with us. Make sure you are subscribed so that you can hear about all this Star Trek. And Jen, you know you're gonna have to come back.

Jen G.: You know, I will, babe, you know, I will, 

Y. M. Nelson: Oh, thank you so 

Jen G.: we can talk about so many different things, so many different things, so yeah, I'm here. I'm in 

Y. M. Nelson: Yeah, she, she's here for our romance and she's also here for our nerdy. And we love that about you, Jen. So, thank you for coming on. 

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