We rate Thunderbolts* | review, pt. 2

Y. M. Nelson hosts the continuing discussion of Thunderbolts. She and Jen, Perry and Marcie talk about female led Marvel movies, depression and grief, standout characters in a fun ensemble cast, and we give the movie a star rating.

TOPICS WE DISCUSS:

• Marketing Thunderbolts*
• A Greenlit surprise
• Standout characters in the Thunderbolts* ensemble
• The Thunderbolts v. Valentina
• Bob aka The Sentry/The Void and depression
• Perry clears up some comic book confusion about Sentry
• Post credit scene explained and other fun things
• Star rating
• If you are dealing with suicidal thoughts

Chapters

• 1:23 Marketing Thunderbolts*
• 6:49 A Greenlit surprise
• 10:07 Standout characters in the Thunderbolts* ensemble
• 22:25 The Thunderbolts v. Valentina
• 28:08 Bob aka The Sentry/The Void and depression
• 41:28 Perry clears up some comic book confusion about Sentry
• 45:10 Post credit scene explained and other fun things
• 49:19 Star rating
• 55:16 If you are dealing with suicidal thoughts

Transcript

Y. M. Nelson: We are continuing our discussion of Thunderbolts on this episode of Nerdy Romantics podcast. Please stick around to the end because we are rating this movie and giving it a star rating. We're also going to talk about some of the surprising characters, depression, Valentina and her view of the world and how the Thunderbolts actually counteracted her total view of the world, and like I said, we are giving this one a star rating to round it out.

As always, we will spoil this one. So, spoiler alert. 

stay tuned as we discuss Thunderbolts 

This is the Nerdy Romantics Podcast, and I'm your host, YM Nelson.

[00:01:23] Marketing Thunderbolts*

Jen G.: You know, one other thing , about the marketing and maybe just kind of the way that they were uncertain about what to do is that not only did you have a movie that was about depression, but you had a movie that was sort of the lead character is Yelena. And traditionally the female led Marvel movies do not do as well.

Y. M. Nelson: Yeah. That's the other thing. 

Jen G.: They have an media, there's an immediate like, reaction to a certain percentage of the Marvel fans that do not accept women as lead characters. And and so they know that they, 

Y. M. Nelson: and she's a and she's a woman with a certain accent too 

Jen G.: Yeah. 

Y. M. Nelson: On top of that 

Marcie: mm-hmm. 

Y. M. Nelson: In this movie.

Jen G.: Yeah. And that she's, so they know it was gonna be an uphill battle 

Y. M. Nelson: Yeah. 

Jen G.: To get people into the seats. And again, , one of the issues I have with the marketing is that I thought that I was walking in to see the Marvel version of Suicide Squad, and 

Y. M. Nelson: That's what I thought, too.

Jen G.: Yeah. Yeah. And so, and well we can talk about DC movies on a on a different day, but. The Suicide squad movies were, were great and action packed and that kinda stuff, but they weren't great with the character stuff.

Y. M. Nelson: Mm-hmm. 

Jen G.: So, they don't have a lot of like movies and tv. They do in the TV shows, but the movies are not nearly so character centric emotional stories and 

Y. M. Nelson: Right.

Jen G.: And so again, that's another thing to when you think about who is a Marvel fan, a Marvel fan is looking for a superhero experience. They're not looking for the depth of emotion that this movie goes into, you know?

Y. M. Nelson: Yeah. 

Jen G.: There's always emotional moments. Like, there's always, always, you know, big, big, high.

And big, big lows in, in all the other superhero movies. 'cause it's always, you know, who is going to die? I almost died, somebody I care about almost died. The city is being destroyed, the earth is gonna be destroyed. Like, there's a lot of, there's a lot of that. But we don't get this like, really intense, very, very, very personal emotional story that that we get here.

And it, we get that, we get a very deep emotional story about all the different characters because of those backstories that they show. 

Y. M. Nelson: Yeah. 

Jen G.: Mm-hmm. 

Y. M. Nelson: And then, and then the other thing too about these low lows is that, people have died, but that's it. Like 

Jen G.: mm-hmm. 

Y. M. Nelson: Here we see people dealing with.

Jen G.: Versus, 

Y. M. Nelson: yeah, exactly. Actually, you know, something happened and they're moving on. 

Marcie: Mm-hmm. 

Y. M. Nelson: We see here people dealing and struggling and trying to figure out how to deal. 

Marcie: Mm-hmm. 

Y. M. Nelson: With the aftermath, which is kind of a, a piggybacking what Marcie was saying before. 'Cause I was kind of saying nostalgia, but I get what she's saying about the fact that this is a, after the End Game kind of feel.

It's almost like some of the stuff, even though we knew it happened, because we've got the shows and we've got some other movies. This really feels like actually seeing what happens after the snap, where do we go from here point. 

Marcie: Mm-hmm. 

Y. M. Nelson: It really has that feel, especially, when we, go back to New York, and we're at the old Avengers Tower we get an aftermath feel and on a personal level, we see how people are dealing with it, so yeah.

All, all of this makes it great, but all of this also makes it hard to market.

Jen G.: Mm-hmm. 

Marcie: Yep. 

Y. M. Nelson: And, and so, I agree with the whole female thing that Marvel does. 

Jen G.: Mm-hmm. 

Y. M. Nelson: Not have, they're not good with it. I don't, 

Jen G.: yeah. Yeah. 

Y. M. Nelson: And, you know, I have my own feelings on that, which I'm not gonna talk about here.

So 

Jen G.: Well, 'cause the other part of it, like, just to, just to like make it more difficult for Marvel, the other thing that they were struggling with is that this was a movie that was at its very heart is about empathy And yes, empathy was becoming a really bad word in 

Y. M. Nelson: Exactly, 

Jen G.: in a lot of spaces. It was like kindness.

How dare you be 

Y. M. Nelson: empathetic. Exactly. And also, a theme here is togetherness, outsiders getting together, y'all. 

Jen G.: Yeah. 

Marcie: Yep, 

Jen G.: yep. I mean, and also people looking at their past and the mistakes that they've made . So, a lot of what has happened to these characters is out of their control, but, but they, as adults, they made choices.

And they're looking at the choices they've made in their past and feeling some kind of way about it and thinking, this is kind of where that big regret piece of the story comes in, where so many characters regret the things that they did and, did they or did they not have control over the choices that were made at the beginning?

Of course they don't. Yelena was a child and these other folks were experimented on and Ava was a child when she became ghost and all those kinds of things. So, there was a lot that was outside of their control.

But as adults, they did make choices where they stayed in a particular, they stayed in a particular lane, and they are regretting those choices now.

Marcie: Mm-hmm. 

Jen G.: And wondering if they can make changes to who they are in the future. And that's also not super popular in a lot of media right now and

Y. M. Nelson: Right. 

[00:06:49] A Greenlit surprise

Jen G.: I mean, these are the things that I absolutely love about this movie and how it just like, confronted it and put it right out in the middle of pop culture with millions of dollars behind it and tons of, trying to bring this story to, because honestly it was super brave of Marvel to even let this script get made, right?

Y. M. Nelson: Yeah. 

Jen G.: They could have scrapped the script, they could have taken it in a completely different direction. It could have been, it could have been all about the explosions and not about the emotion, and they didn't chicken out. And I gotta give Marvel a lot of credit for that. 

Perry C.: Yeah, I, I'm very surprised that Marvel did let this go through.

I guess it's because this wasn't something that had like a lot of expectations on Marvel's side too. So, they kind of figured that, we're gonna do this as a theatrical thing, but really, we could have done this as like a Disney plus exclusive thing, but they decided 

Jen G.: mm-hmm. 

Perry C.: 'cause that.

'cause it's picking up on all these other things, but it's not like, you know, with Captain America we talked about where it went through all these reshoots to try and make it, appeal to everybody. And in the end, by doing that, they ended up appealing to nobody really.

And I feel like this one, because it didn't have that like name association with anything else, right? Didn't have the Avengers name association, it didn't have the 

Y. M. Nelson: mm-hmm. 

Perry C.: And they could have called it New Avengers. Right. But if they did that, to Jen's point, then people would've had a whole much different expectation.

So, yeah. 

Jen G.: Mm-hmm. 

Perry C.: Doing it the way they did was very, I think from marketing perspective may be very stupid because they didn't really know how to market it then. But from a creative standpoint, it was very innovative. I thought the way they decided to do all that. But also, to something Yvonne was saying made me think too about this movie and its connection, the current era, like.

You look at what this movie is, it is these broken people who have been stepped on all their lives, who have been screwed over by the system. Someone says, oh, I can fix it for you. I can make it so that you are better. I can make you better. And then they find out, oh my God, we got screwed over.

And now they're trying to kill us. And then what do they do? They band together and they fight back against the power structure. And at the end they take control of it. Right. Like Yelena says to, to Val at the end there, "we own you now." 

Y. M. Nelson: We own you. Yeah. 

Perry C.: And it's, and it, but also, it's the empathy thing to what Jen was saying too, that empathy for each other is what brings them together and gives them strength.

So, I think like this movie can be kind of like a rallying cry and people are gonna be looking back on it in that way. 

Jen G.: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Exactly. 

Perry C.: Yep. 

Jen G.: The power of empathy. 

Y. M. Nelson: Yep. 

Jen G.: Yep. 

Y. M. Nelson: The power of empathy and banning together. Yep. 

Jen G.: Mm-hmm. 

Y. M. Nelson: Exactly. That's it. Yeah. I totally, I totally see it. And when I first saw it, I didn't feel it as much as for some reason, as I feel it now.

And I think it's just because more stuff is happening in the world and it's all coming to a head. Exactly. Maybe. 

Jen G.: Exactly. 

Y. M. Nelson: It's not coming to a head yet, but it just, it just feels like it is every day. But 

Jen G.: Yeah. 

Y. M. Nelson: But yes, the timing of that and, how that Yeah. Yeah. 

Jen G.: Mm-hmm. 

Y. M. Nelson: Just yes. To everything.

Jen G.: Exactly. Yes. To all that. Mm-hmm. 

Y. M. Nelson: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yes. To everything.

[00:10:07] Standout characters in the Thunderbolts* ensemble

Y. M. Nelson: And so, with that what characters were kind of a surprise to you or maybe not even a surprise to you, you just loved what they did on screen. Since this is such a character kind of study, or maybe we felt everything about everybody. You know?

The story was what stood out and the characters actually being developed. Maybe that more so is what stood out to you.

So, the question is, did any one character stand out to you or did just the whole fact of the fact that Marvel did this as a character study standout Perry, you, 

Perry C.: I mean, yeah.

Obviously, Yelena, right? She's, you know, 

Y. M. Nelson: yeah. 

Perry C.: I mean, just, and just as a related note too, last night my wife and I watched, Don't Worry Darling, and just. My God, she is such an amazing actress. Right? She is.

You And talking about accents too, you mentioned the accent. Like she's, she's from England, but she puts on a completely natural American accent in Don't Worry, Darling. And this one, she puts on this, this very believable Russian accent too. She's just, she's 

Y. M. Nelson: very believable. Yes. 

Perry C.: Yeah. And she's, just on fire at everything I see her in and, she's quickly becoming one of my favorite actresses ever. So, but I, but also that wasn't a surprise, right? I was, after seeing her in Black Widow and after seeing her in Hawkeye, I was expecting her to, be my favorite character, to be kinda like my standout for this.

But beyond that, also Red Guardian was very well done. I thought he got a lot of, 

Jen G.: mm-hmm. 

Perry C.: We got a lot of emotional depth out of him.

And he wasn't just the, goofy big Russian guy that he was in Black Widow, which was fun. But we got the, and we did get some of that here too, but we also get, a lot more emotional depth than I expected too.

And the third one, I'd say, who was also, well, I mean fourth I guess, but you know, Louis Pullman as Bob, right?

He was, 

Marcie: mm-hmm. 

Y. M. Nelson: Yes. 

Perry C.: I mean, I hate the Sentry character is very kind of annoying in the comics. He had a very good original series. And it was interesting because it was billed as kind like a prank, this idea of like, oh, we found this superhero that Stan Lee had created, but they never, but they just put it in a drawer.

And so, they kind of built it that way. And they're like, okay, and so they used that as a meta meta versions. So, it was this idea of like, he was like the greatest hero in the Marvel universe, but. Nobody remembers him. There was a reason why they had to like erase everybody's memory of him.

So, it's like him piecing together his memory and all that. And it was really interesting. They can't really do that in the MCUI don't think, without being very confusing to people and not having the same amount of history.

So instead, they did this and they just focused on the focused, the mental illness part of it, which I thought l Louis Paulman absolutely stole the show with that, too.

I wasn't expecting 'cause originally it was Steven Yen from The Walking Dead was cast in the role, but he had to back out due to scheduling conflicts or something. So, seeing Louis Paulman really impressed me as as Bob.

And then, Wyatt Russell as John Walker, like again, I thought he was great in Falcon and the Winter Soldier because he is a character that you are supposed to hate. 

Y. M. Nelson: Yes. 

Perry C.: And I love that about him. My wife hated that about him, but I thought he did a great job as that. And then seeing him here and getting more backstory behind him and seeing like the struggles he's going through, I thought, Russell very much, sold that very well.

Y. M. Nelson: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Marcie, any favorite characters or did we just love the character development here? What, what did you feel? 

Marcie: I'm gonna echo Perry a lot because, but I'm gonna say that my first favorite was the duo of Red Guardian and Yelena.

Jen G.: Mm-hmm. 

Marcie: And they're dynamic together. Yes. 

Y. M. Nelson: So Great. 

Marcie: And then them in 

Y. M. Nelson: the car.

Oh my. In the car. 

Marcie: In the car and, his pep talk in the 11th hour. Yeah. Like all those, I think. 

Jen G.: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 

Marcie: And you know her, even though she's angry at him, her also trying to hype him up and keep, and encourage him to yes. When he feels that, like, I think I love their dynamic.

I agree that Louis Pullman sold it as Bob slash Sentry loved it. Yeah. I mean, I loved, I, you know, I love Valentina Julia Louis-Dreyfus Every Time is gonna is gonna bring it. Yes. And she's, 

Y. M. Nelson: she's amazing. 

Marcie: You couldn't, couldn't tell just how, you know, even though you knew she was bad, you couldn't tell exactly how bad.

And then to get some backstory on why bad, like there was so much. So yeah, those were, those were my heavy hitters.

But that is not to say that this was not a consummate cast, that everyone did not Right. Play like as an ensemble. I think it's one of the better ones. And that we did get to see the breadth and depth of each character, and I think that's something 

Y. M. Nelson: Agreed.

Marcie: I don't always get to see many other ensemble movies. Mm-hmm. But those would be my top. 

Perry C.: Yeah. You know, I'm glad you mentioned Val because between, you know, Veep and, and now her performances here, like Yeah. You, Louis Drefus, she's Kevin, kind of a career renaissance and she's proven like she was the best thing about Seinfeld.

Marcie: Right. 

Jen G.: Oh my gosh. She totally was. Oh yeah, 

Marcie: she's still good. 

Jen G.: 100%. She totally was. 

Marcie: I love her 

Jen G.: 100%. 

Marcie: She nailed it. She still, she nails everything. She's in you, she brings the exactly what you're looking for. 'cause always slightly ambiguous as to whether or not I should hate her. Like I love it. Yeah. I'm just, exactly, I'm almost there.

And then I'm like, what? Then I'm like, no, she's real terrible. But yeah, yeah. Yeah. Love, love her. Like she was another one of my favorites. And also in Captain America: Brave New World, like, I think. Yeah. 

Y. M. Nelson: Mm-hmm. 

Marcie: I love to see that three. 

Y. M. Nelson: Yeah. Yep. Jen, what about you? Any character standouts or did we Yeah.

Love it together, or how did we feel about characters? 

Jen G.: So, I, well, I've already professed my love for Florence Pugh and 

Y. M. Nelson: Yeah. 

Jen G.: And anybody who sees this movie and becomes another fan of hers, it's just, she's just really fantastic. So, she's my number one, but I do have to agree that her and her and what's his name?

David Harbour Alexi. 

Perry C.: Alexi. 

Y. M. Nelson: Mm, yeah. Alexi, yes. 

Jen G.: Those two together because the fighting that the two of them would do, where they would arguing every time that they argued made me laugh. 

Marcie: Mm-hmm. 

Jen G.: And then every time that they got serious with each other, when she was talking about how she had lost her sister and he didn't contact her for a year.

Marcie: Mm-hmm. 

Jen G.: And it's very easy to be on Yelena's side at that moment. 

Marcie: Yeah. 

Jen G.: And then when he pipes up and he's like. Like, I don't know how to do this. And you think about how much, you know, what was taken from him in that way of being his ability to just relate to people the way that the way that you kind of would, right?

If somebody loses somebody important to them like her sister, right? Right. Then it seems obvious that you would go and comfort that person.

But he doesn't have that because it's been it was kind of trained out of him, right? Remember he did a whole lot of killing. And so, what does, what do, what happens to people after they lose somebody that they love?

And he was the person who killed all these people, right? Mm-hmm. So, I really appreciated that they sort of added so many layers of, of intricacy in their in their relationship. So, and you know, the other one I'm gonna say is, is the John Walker character, because he is just somebody that I have. It is not that he was forgettable, it's just that he was kind of on the forgettable side for me.

He was like, oh, he was, he was there as kind of a foil. He was there as someone who was kind of being manipulated in some ways and kind of but for him personally, what he loses when he loses his. When he loses the job of Captain America and how he lost his family. He lost himself.

He lost, so many things and how he brings that, it's only a couple of scenes, but he brings that, you know, to the forefront. And what happens when you lose your dream job? What happens? Sorry, Yvonne, 

Y. M. Nelson: my dream job is still out there. 

Jen G.: I know. But you know, but he, he was so high and then he was, and then he was dropped down.

And how that how that clouded his ability to see what he still had. Right?

Y. M. Nelson: Yeah. 

Jen G.: He allowed that, that disappointment, that shame maybe that regret that, you know, all those things. He allowed that to get in the way of recognizing the love that he had in his life and and push it away. And he, so he created his own reality, so, yeah.

Y. M. Nelson: Yeah. I'm gonna, I'm gonna echo a lot of what everybody's saying here about the character standouts. The character that I think changed my feeling about them or surprised me the most was the John Walker character, because Yeah, I was like, this dude, I hated him. I knew I was supposed to hate him in Falcon and the Winter Soldier, and I did, but he's complicated here, and that makes me feel complicated.

Marcie: Exactly. 

Y. M. Nelson: You know, and just like Jen said, I mean, essentially this guy was the achiever, he is like the ultimate like person that, that achieves and succeeds at everything that they do.

And he failed miserably at being Captain America. 

Jen G.: Mm-hmm. 

Y. M. Nelson: So much so that they gave it to a reluctant Sam Wilson.

Jen G.: Mm-hmm. 

Y. M. Nelson: And Bucky had to say, listen, you're supposed to be Captain America. I love Falcon and the Winter Soldier, y'all. I love that. I love that show. But but 

Jen G.: great, of course, 

Y. M. Nelson: but yet to see him [John] kind of go into a spiral after that and mm-hmm. And again, like Jen is saying, it's only a couple of scenes where we see he is not in a good place, and we know that he's lost his wife and child because of this.

It's like. Yeah, it's a complicated kind of feeling. You feel some kind of way, and I wasn't expecting that. 

Marcie: Right. No, 

Y. M. Nelson: I really wasn't expecting that. 

Marcie: What I said at the beginning about what happens when you become expendable. Right. When you 

Y. M. Nelson: Yes, 

Marcie: and, and what do you do after? And he can't even, 

Jen G.: mm-hmm.

Marcie: There's a part of him that can't even acknowledge the loss of his wife and child. Like he doesn't even 

Jen G.: Right. He 

Marcie: doesn't even, 

Jen G.: yeah. Yeah. 

Marcie: He can't even acknowledge that that part of of life has happened because 

Y. M. Nelson: Yeah. 

Marcie: That, that's the thing that basically is gonna break him. And so, I think it's that, that whole thing about the cost of heroism, right?

The cost of being the hero. 

Y. M. Nelson: Yeah. 

Marcie: And what happens when you're not what people wanted, or, or you couldn't be the hero and you're no longer, nobody's cheering for you. Like there's no, clearly there's no support group. For 

Y. M. Nelson: Right. 

Marcie: For what happens after. Yeah. Right after heroism, after your assignment is over.

Right. There's there, there doesn't seem to be any kind of exit program, 

Y. M. Nelson: right? 

Marcie: There's, there's no therapy 

Y. M. Nelson: group. 

Marcie: You know, no therapy. Where's the circle house? No counselor. And so, I think, I think you're right. It was a small part on screen, but it was also, it resounded with every one of them. 

Jen G.: Mm-hmm. 

Marcie: In some way about what happens after.

When, people have decided they no longer need your services for whatever reason. 

Jen G.: Mm-hmm. 

Marcie: Whether you were extremely good at it or extremely bad, but now someone else has decided that you are not. 

Y. M. Nelson: Yeah. 

Marcie: You're not worthy

[00:22:25] The Thunderbolts v. Valentina

Y. M. Nelson: a Exactly, and it's funny how when they first realized that in the vault that they are here to basically kill each other.

Marcie: Mm-hmm. 

Y. M. Nelson: Because they are no longer needed, how they band together. 

Marcie: Mm-hmm. 

Y. M. Nelson: And how Valentina didn't even realize that that was going to happen. Right. It's just so interesting how people get kind of a tunnel vision or people just like, they don't understand. 

Marcie: Mm-hmm. 

Y. M. Nelson: They don't understand that people can band together.

Marcie: You know, well, again, it's because they don't value. They never, they, she didn't value people '

Y. M. Nelson: cause they didn't value that person. Begin with. Exactly. 

Marcie: She didn't, she didn't attribute any kind of. Personal. Right. Because to her, they were just pawns in the game. And I don't think she expected them to act as anything other than what they had been.

And I don't think she valued their life enough to recognize that they might value their own lives. I think she was like, 

Y. M. Nelson: and that too, that too. It's like, okay, yeah. There's no survival in, there's gonna be no survival instinct here. It's like, are you kidding me? 

Perry C.: Well, there's also a, there's also a arrogance there where she thinks I've been manipulating that.

Jen G.: Mm-hmm. 

Perry C.: I've been so, like, I could, obviously they're gonna do what I say, and they're gonna, they're gonna, they're, 'cause I'm smarter than them. They're stupid. So, I think there's that part of it, too. 

Marcie: Yeah. 

Y. M. Nelson: Yes. Exactly. It's like they're not going to figure it out. 

Marcie: Mm-hmm. 

Y. M. Nelson: I am. And 

Marcie: by the time they do, it won't matter.

Jen G.: Mm-hmm. 

Y. M. Nelson: Yeah. Right? Mm-hmm. And that, that's a little bit of why I like her, but I hate her. She's like that master manipulator. But at the same time, she's got such a narcissistic personality. 

Jen G.: Mm-hmm. 

Y. M. Nelson: You know that she does not see you about to be manipulated as well. Like these people that you hired, these people are just as savvy as you think you are.

Jen G.: Yeah. 

Y. M. Nelson: Right. Maybe even more so and because you can't see past your own ego, you might actually get gone because of that. And she almost did, as we know, right?

Perry C.: Mm-hmm. 

Y. M. Nelson: And she almost got gone because she couldn't see past her own ego, you know? 

Marcie: Yeah. 

Y. M. Nelson: It's just a wonderful performance by Julia Louis-Dreyfus But, but also like her character, and she's been doing that in every Marvel movie. It's like, she gives me that, ah, feeling in every one, you know? But she's good at it, and especially in this one. But 

Jen G.: I think with her, she she thinks that she's in control. And then we first see her realize that she's not so in control when she's talking to Bob.

Bob has. Has made the transformation into the what's his name? 

Perry C.: The Sentry. 

Y. M. Nelson: Sentry 

Jen G.: Sentry. And and she's confronting him in the watchtower, and he, he says, oh no, like I am, but I'm the one with the power. Like, I'm not gonna do what you say. 

Y. M. Nelson: Mm-hmm. 

Jen G.: And because I'm more powerful than the Avengers, and at least one of the Avengers was a God, so therefore I am a God.

And she's like, you're gonna write God word around. And then like the realization that comes over her when she's like, oh, crap. 

Y. M. Nelson: Right? 

Jen G.: Yeah. I've lost control of the situation. 

Marcie: Right. 

Jen G.: And, and it's interesting because her worldview, right, is based on the idea that there's, there are bad people and worse people, right?

Marcie: Mm-hmm. 

Jen G.: And so that really clouds what she thinks is possible with the people that she surrounds herself with and the people that she thinks she can manipulate, because that's her whole, that's her whole worldview. 

Y. M. Nelson: Yeah. 

Perry C.: One of the things I want to piggyback off of that is Julie Louis-Dreyfus' performance in that scene. Right. It's not like, it's not like, the standard like, oh my God, I can't believe, what's happening.

Jen G.: Mm-hmm. 

Perry C.: You know, curses sudden, but inevitable betrayal type of thing. Right,

Y. M. Nelson: right. 

Perry C.: It's not that it said, she's just like, it's almost like this resign, ah, crap. Mm-hmm. I gotta deal with this.

Y. M. Nelson: Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. And, and so her feeling that she's still in control 

Jen G.: mm-hmm. 

Y. M. Nelson: That she still has the power is still there and it's gonna get her gone If she does, 

Jen G.: you know, she's like, oh, I have to change my strategy. All right. Well, right. That's where she's in that moment 

Y. M. Nelson: way. She's, it's, 

Jen G.: she needs to do strategy and she'll be back.

She's gonna get this back. Exactly. Don't worry about it. It's a little wrinkle. Right. 

Marcie: And I think 

Jen G.: that's 

Marcie: what makes, I think that's what makes the moment with Yelena where she says, we own you now. 

Y. M. Nelson: Yes. 

Marcie: I, that's what makes that moment all the sweeter is that exactly in that moment, it's like, it's like she realizes that she's gotten God by her own plan.

Like she knows that this is what she deserves. Like, and I think that was the best part for me is because she recognized she had been bested almost by her own plan. Like she, in that moment it was, that's so, so smoothly done. It was great. There was some ex, again, there were some excellent moments and 

Jen G.: mm-hmm.

Marcie: And I'm sad that people didn't see more of them. 

Y. M. Nelson: Right. But I agree with you. As far as if you put these in the trailer, you done messed up the Yeah. You mess up the whole mood. You can't put these in the trailer, but these are the Gs, you know, these, this is what would get, yeah. This is what would get you, get you watching.

[00:28:08] Bob aka The Sentry/The Void and depression

Y. M. Nelson: And, and the the other the other character that I didn't realize was going to affect me the way that character did was Bob. 

Marcie: Mm-hmm. 

Y. M. Nelson: You said played by Louis Pullman. 

Jen G.: Mm-hmm. 

Y. M. Nelson: Yeah. Yes. But Bob, AKA Robert Reynolds, AKA Sentry. AKA, The Void. 

Marcie: Mm-hmm. 

Y. M. Nelson: So, I did not realize that that character was going to affect me the way that they did.

But yeah, that character really- I will say, and I've never really said this on the podcast, I don't think but I will probably give maybe a little bit of a trigger warning here.

Jen G.: Mm-hmm. 

Y. M. Nelson: Because if you are somebody who deals with depression and maybe has been in it, deals with depression and maybe has been in an abusive situation or something like that, this is one of those movies where I think that I would go into it with caution.

Jen G.: Yep. 

Y. M. Nelson: Yep. I, would say trigger warning there, or content warning, whatever you,

Jen G.: mm-hmm. 

Y. M. Nelson: Whatever you prefer. Mm-hmm. Because some of the scenes with him going into his various rooms, 

Marcie: right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 

Jen G.: Mm-hmm. 

Y. M. Nelson: That got to me, and, you know, and this is the thing, is that this antihero slash superhero is dealing with their trauma right in front of our eyes. Mm-hmm. And this is how they're dealing with it.

The only other kind of superhero where we kind of see and we don't see in a lot of things them deal with their trauma is Batman. Right. We know the Batman story, we know the origin story, we know what's going on. Mm-hmm. But we also know that he has trauma, especially in The Dark Knight.

We know that he has trauma. 

Jen G.: Right. Yeah. 

Y. M. Nelson: But in here, we're actually seeing this character dealing with their trauma. 

Marcie: Yep. Mm-hmm. 

Y. M. Nelson: We're seeing this superheroes slash villain slash calls himself a God or whatever, but he has these powers, but he also has this big traumatic side to him that's actually taking over him.

Marcie: Mm-hmm. 

Y. M. Nelson: I think with Batman and then, Venom, the whole Spider-Man\ Venom, two sides kind of thing. But it's not done in this kind of way 

Jen G.: Exactly. 

Y. M. Nelson: Where it's really dealing with it on an emotional vulnerable kind of level. 

Jen G.: Mm-hmm. 

Y. M. Nelson: And I really wasn't expecting that. I really appreciated how they did it.

It, was amazing how they did it. 

Jen G.: Mm-hmm. 

Y. M. Nelson: But I really wasn't expecting it. What did we think about this whole depression angle? I know we've talked some about it. What do we think about seeing this in a movie and seeing this as kind of a vehicle for villainy a little bit?

Because of course he's, using it against the New Yorkers there. Black 

Jen G.: He 

Y. M. Nelson: is, 

Jen G.: but I think he's got, so he has a couple things that are going on with them. Right. I, so I really appreciated that they put this in there because we don't see it. It's something that we really don't see portrayed well in mm-hmm.

In media generally speaking. So yes, we have, we have a character who is, who is a very. Very, very suicidal. And is, you know, he, from the beginning when we meet him and Yelena sees it and is like, Hmm, we're gonna, she's like, I know what that darkness is. We're gonna, I'm gonna, we don't have to give into the darkness.

Right? And so, and uses that language with him. And so, when we find out in his backstory, right, all the abuse that he suffered. And one of the challenges for somebody who has that in their history is what do you do when you do have power? Right? And and what is that? How, can a person react who has never had any power at all?

Not just like normal human challenges, but somebody who's literally never had power in their life and now and then, is and, and has all these things that were done to him. Because I don't have the impression that he has any control over when we first meet him and he touches someone and takes them and they go into their rooms.

Into their rooms, 

Y. M. Nelson: yeah. 

Jen G.: And they explore their own past and they explore their own trauma or something. I don't have the impression that he's doing that on purpose. 

Marcie: Mm-hmm. 

Jen G.: Right? So that's just something that he doesn't have control over it. And then we find out that he can see that as well. So, he is experiencing not only his own past, but he's experiencing their past and their trauma as well.

And so, so that brings us into that world of there are bad people and there are worse people, because that's all he can see, right? 

Y. M. Nelson: Yes. Mm-hmm. 

Jen G.: Is, is that is the idea and Yelena has to remind him of. That, there are other options out there. Right. That's her, in her conversation with him about you know, helping him to kind of see that it doesn't have to be this way.

Yeah. 

Y. M. Nelson: Yeah. 

Marcie: And I think that that kind of mirrors the recovery journey of so many people. 

Jen G.: Mm-hmm. 

Marcie: Is yes. That it is in that transparency of there is more, there is better, there's something after healing. Yeah. And I think that was a beautiful depiction of what yeah.

Recovery journey looks like. And I, and I think it was really well done. I do agree not mm-hmm. Not necessarily with like a trigger warning, but just to understand that if you are in a, in a place of, of 

Jen G.: mm-hmm. 

Marcie: Deep emotion of any kind. 

Jen G.: Yeah. 

Marcie: That this is, that this movie could potentially, either force you to deal with that or at least remind you or reflect what you're feeling.

Jen G.: Mm-hmm. 

Marcie: In, in a moment. 

Y. M. Nelson: Yeah. 

Marcie: But there's some power in that too. In seeing it, in seeing someone else in the rooms and the things. There was a real unpacking of the mind of that's what it's like, like okay. To see, to see that. I think it's also validating to people who are dealing with this type of, of emotion people who are you know, are manic or who have disorders where they go through these phases often.

I do think it was validating to see that in real life and to have people who don't experience that have an understanding of what that might be like. So, I do think for people who don't. Have that as part of their journey, it might, it's actually enlightening to see a depiction of it and to understand the way that someone in your life that might be dealing with it may never be able to explain it to you.

Y. M. Nelson: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 

Marcie: But I think in the, in, in the seeing of it, it may help. I mean, I think there are a lot of conversations that can be had after that movie. 

Y. M. Nelson: Yeah. 

Marcie: Yes. Another, again, I think it was just one of those where I want more people to see it because I feel like it was, yeah, it was excellent.

It was an excellent story and it was so brilliantly acted. And I hope that people do get to see it because I do think there is a lot of conversation to be had, 

Y. M. Nelson: Mm-hmm. 

Marcie: In a lot of different spaces. I think there are a lot of families who are facing loss and grief and, that kind of angst between each other that you see between Yelena and what's his real name?

Not red Guardian, 

Perry C.: Alexi. 

Marcie: Alexi. Mm-hmm. I think there's, there's something to be said about that too, because people grieve differently and understanding two people in the same space, having experienced the same loss, but from different perspectives. I mean, I think there's just so many things that can come from that.

Also, a good story. Yeah. Yes. But also, some, some powerful discussions that can be had, and I think were handled

Jen G.: mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 

Marcie: In very thoughtful ways. Yeah. That you, I think you're right, Jen. We don't often see on screen. 

Jen G.: Yeah. 

Y. M. Nelson: Yeah. Perry, anything to add about this? I wanna ask you something from a comic book perspective, but anything to add to the depression discussion here? 

Perry C.: No, I think you guys covered it very well. Although I will say, I thought one shortcoming of the movie was that we don't see the other rooms that the other characters end up in. We only see them come together with Yelena at the end.

And I think, I mean, the movie's not that long. It's 127 minutes. We could have had, you know, tack on an extra 10 minutes and show us what happened in those other rooms, or at least give us some hint of it. 

Y. M. Nelson: Mm-hmm. 

Perry C.: And how they broke free of it. I think that would've been very helpful. Especially like, you know, with Bucky too, right? My whole head canon for what he did in his room was that, 'cause we've seen Bucky go through this journey.

He's come, he's come out the other end. 

Marcie: Yeah. 

Perry C.: So, I think like him going into one of those rooms and him seeing like himself as the old winter soldier under Hydra's control, and then if he just goes like, he's like, Nope, I've dealt with this already.

Then he just punches. And he just punches out the Hydra guys or something like that and then punches his way out the, I think that would've been cool. I think that would, that's my head cannon for what happened in that room. 'cause he's been 

Y. M. Nelson: with 

Perry C.: his arm arm, he's, he's been through that journey already. And so, I think showing him, and as like, I feel like, yeah, I feel like, you know, I love Sebastian Stan. I think he's an exceptional actor. And I feel like he, if anything, I feel like he, he didn't have enough to do in this movie.

And I think he could have used with a little bit extra screen time for, he could have been kind, he could have been the one who is you know, like. The model for these guys, like I've been where you have been, I have come out the other end and I'm gonna help you do that, just, which is connected.

Going back to the comic books thing, that's what Hawkeye did for the Thunderbolts* too, because Hawkeye was originally a, a villain when he first appeared in the comics. And, and then he, captain America, gave him a second chance and gave him a chance to become an Avenger. And he, and then he was doing the same thing for those Thunderbolts* who wanted to reform. He's like, okay, well I'm gonna be your second chance. I'm gonna give you the second chance someone gave me. And I think it, that's a good position for Bucky to occupy.

And I think that's what they were trying to go for thematically as a connection, the comics. But I don't think they had actually conveyed that as well as they could have in the movie itself. 

Jen G.: Yeah. 

Y. M. Nelson: I agree. I love me some Sebastian Stan. Y'all, y'all know that y'all know I love me some Bucky! Bucky Barnes. Yeah.

Oh God. And when he he put his arm in the dishwasher! 

I was like, yeah, you know, I just, I just, I, I love everything about him, but I, I felt like, and because we've talked about all of these, different characters, it's interesting that we didn't talk about him. He is probably the most visible of all of these characters as far as MCU, do we know him from something else kind of thing.

And he was really more of a tertiary character here. You know, he was kind of secondary, kind of and 

Marcie: that's why I didn't bring him up. 

Y. M. Nelson: Yeah, he, he was, he was very much kind of secondary and I thought he was gonna have a little bit of a, a leadership role, but, you know, when you see Yelena do what she does, I'm like, no.

Mm-hmm. Bucky, you need to just, yeah. Just drive the truck, you know? Right on into Avengers tower. But, 

Perry C.: well, that, 

Y. M. Nelson: I love that. 

Perry C.: Sorry. I thought that 

Y. M. Nelson: was funny too because like, he's talking to Red Guardian, right. And Red Guardian is like, we can be co-leaders together. And he's like, what's the plan?

And Bucky's like. Plan? You know, and I'm like, this is where you lead, dude. This is where you do your thing. You know?

Perry, I'm sorry I cut you off. 

Perry C.: No, I was gonna, I was gonna say the same thing. I love that moment when he is like, he's like, wait, wait, wait. I, I have to come up with a plan because he's never the one to do that.

So, I thought that was, that was a good moment too. 

Jen G.: Mm-hmm. 

Y. M. Nelson: Yeah. I mean, he has his moments, but yeah, I feel like he's kind of secondary in this new Avengers thing. And it's funny that that happened too because now that we know from the mid and end, mid end post credit, whatever it is, post credits, that there's two Avenger things kind of going on here.

He is kind of the bridge. You know, if you think about it, 

Marcie: he's, 

Y. M. Nelson: because, you know, him and Sam Wilson, they're buddies, right? So, he's kind of the bridge in between that. And so, for him, we could have a really integral role, but in Captain and the Winter Soldier, we just get a blip of him there. I mean, not Captain and the winter Soldier, I'm sorry, Captain America: Brave New World, y'all.

It's getting late. We just see a blip of him there, and here he's kind of in a secondary kind of area here. It's like, what, what are we doing with this character?

You know, but so yeah, I feel some kind of way about that, but I still love me some Bucky Barnes. Okay.

[00:41:28] Perry clears up some comic book confusion about Sentry

Y. M. Nelson: But but the thing that I wanted to ask, and I think you've kind of answered it a little bit, Perry, is the Sentry character in the comics.

So, I, I think a, you need to correct me where I'm wrong on this 'cause I think I'm wrong on it in a lot of ways, but my first thought was that the Sentry comic was not a Marvel comic. So, you're saying that I'm wrong on that? 

Perry C.: Yeah, it was a Marvel book. 

Y. M. Nelson: Like it was its own thing and it wasn't Marvel and Marvel had gotten it.

But you're saying no, that's not true. 

Perry C.: No, I think you're confusing. I think you're conflating Sentry with Miracle Man, which was a 

Y. M. Nelson: Okay. 

Perry C.: Which was something that Marvel acquired. So, Miracle Man was kind of like this originally called Marvel Man in the uk. It was basically a Captain Marvel, Shazam ripoff back in the uk.

And then in. So, it was like back during the, like, I think during the silver, it was like in the sixties or the seventies when it was coming out. And then it went dormant wasn't very popular.

And then a publisher picked it up, I think it was Eclipse Comics, if I'm remembering correctly. And Alan Moore started like this, genre defining run on it that like completely changed, like superhero comics, it's very much a precursor to things like Watchmen and, and all that, and Dark Returns and all that.

And he had done this really excellent run on it. They couldn't call it Marvel Man because of, of Marvel comics. So, so they changed the name to Miracle Man, there's a whole legal battle over it over the years. And then the legal battle was settled a few years back when Marvel bought the right.

So that's, that's separate from the Sentry. The Sentry was created for Marvel by Paul Jenkins and Jay Lee. And it was originally supposed to be this idea of, oh, this was this superhero that Stan Lee created, but he never did anything with. We found it in the Marvel Archives, and we're going to do a new series with him, and we're going to use that idea as a springboard into the series where he's this forgotten hero in the Marvel universe that nobody remembers.

So, and it turned out that was just all, you know, it was very much kind of a Blair Witch kind of fake out. Like it was, it was something that was just created recent by those creators. It wasn't, wasn't a forgotten creation or anything like that. 

Y. M. Nelson: Oh, okay. 

Perry C.: But they did. But yeah, it was an excellent series and it dealt with the idea of like this hero who.

He had this dark side, his arch villain, The Void was his own dark side. So, in order to contain The Void, he had to contain himself, too. And he had to make the whole world forget he had existed.

So, it, it's, it's got some similar beats to, to Miracle Man. This whole idea of like, the hero forgot who he was, he has to rediscover himself and all that.

And at the end of the series, he had basically, suppressed himself again. He had gone back into hiding and then. In the new Avengers comics, they brought him back. And basically, the writer Brian Michael Bendis, clearly didn't know what to do with this character, who was so powerful.

So, he just kind of like always had him having to stay back at, like having to stay out of the, out of the site or something like that. And then eventually he got, you know, there's, so, yeah. Basically, nothing interesting was ever done with him other than that first series and now this movie. Oh, 

Marcie: wow. 

Y. M. Nelson: Right.

And, and two, it's happening in this movie. Kind of like in the post credit, it seems, everybody's like, you're the only one that can fly.

He's like, no, I can't do that. 'cause my dark side comes out. "But I did the dishes." 

It's like, what? 

Marcie: Right. "But I did the dishes," and he was so proud. 

Y. M. Nelson: Yeah, he was very proud. It was so funny.

But yeah, that whole character and all of that, that happened with that character, it's just, it really. Yeah. That I wasn't thinking that that was going to happen, but then I wasn't thinking that a lot of this was gonna happen. That happened and it did. And it's just, and it's wonderful.

[00:45:10] Post credit scene explained and other fun things

Y. M. Nelson: And in that vein, because we've talked so much about this, a look before we give it a good read rating. And before I get off of this, is there, is there something that we didn't talk about that you wanna talk about? Anybody? 

Perry C.: Well, I do think we got a little bit shortchange with the Taskmaster fake out and how she gets killed right away.

Y. M. Nelson: Yes. 

Jen G.: Mm-hmm. 

Perry C.: And I, and they had actually shot more scenes with Olga Curry-Lenko too. And like there was like some more scenes of like her and Ghost interacting, which I don't, I get what they were trying to go for with that.

And. That character was also changed a lot from the comics. So, it gives them now an opportunity to maybe bring in the, a Task master that's closer to the comics. I don't know if that was the thinking, but yeah. But I do feel like that was kind of a missed opportunity.

'Cause I think we could have had some, we could have seen some interesting stuff with her and it would've given Ava more to do because she kind of feels like the, the person on the outs in the team, like who she doesn't really have a whole lot of room to maneuver.

She doesn't have a whole lot of depth to her in this movie. I mean, a little bit more than she got in Antman and the Wasp, but not enough, at least compared to the other characters. 

Jen G.: Mm-hmm. 

Y. M. Nelson: Yeah. She also didn't get even a dark scene. At least, a few of them got that, you know? Right. She didn't even get that, you know, so, yeah.

That's, that's interesting. Anybody else? Some something that we missed? 

Jen G.: Okay. I had a different interpretation of something. 

Y. M. Nelson: Okay. 

Jen G.: So, I thought the. F Fantastic Four, a little a stinger that we had. I thought that that was 'cause and then I saw the Fantastic Four movie. I thought that the little blip that something's happening in space had more to do with whatever caused the Fantastic Four to be the Fantastic Four then gave them their changed them and, and gave them their powers.

I thought that's what they were referring to. And because the Fantastic Four movie starts where they already have powers, we don't see them get their powers. Yeah. So, I thought that's what that referred to. Not that it referred to them, like connecting with the, the primary timeline. So, but there you go.

Y. M. Nelson: One, one question Perry, about this. So, at this point I have not seen Fantastic Four, but it will be out in on video before we do this, 

Jen G.: it has Pedro Pascal, so, you know, it's gonna be good. 

Y. M. Nelson: Exactly. I mean, I wanted to see it in the theater, but job stuff. So, my question is, so are we in the 6 1 6 universe in Thunderbolts* and is Fantastic Four in the 8, 3, 4. Are they in the other

Perry C.: 8, 2 8 

Y. M. Nelson: multiverse? Eight two, whatever. Are they in the other one? Is that how that is? 

Perry C.: Yeah, they're in, their own completely separate universe right now. And when they come into 6 1 6 is, that's the post credit scene in Thunderbolts*. 

Y. M. Nelson: Okay. That's kind of what I was thinking.

Perry C.: Which, and you know what people were complaining about that post credit scene in Thunderbolts*, they're like, oh, they spoiled the end of Fantastic Four.

They didn't, they did not. You'll see when you see Fantastic Four that it does, they didn't spoil anything in here. They're just setting them up for Doomsday.

Y. M. Nelson: Okay, good. That's good. That's good to know. Yeah. I'm gonna watch it anyway, but that's good to know.

And, and so 8 2 8, that's the one with the X-Men in it, right? 

Perry C.: No, no. X-Men is its own separate thing. Separate. This is thing as far as we know. Yeah, because Okay. This the Fantastic four, which you'll see when you see it, it's set in like a retro futuristic 19 version of the 1960s.

Y. M. Nelson: Yeah, 

Perry C.: that's what 8 2 8 is. So yeah, it's nothing to do with the X-Men back when Fox. Okay. So, they're totally, yeah. Back when Fox had the rights to both Fantastic Four X-Men, they were thinking about linking them together, but they never actually did. 

Y. M. Nelson: Yeah. 

Perry C.: Because the Tim Story movies. There was actually an edited scene in the first Tim Story

fantastic four movie when Reed Richards\ Ian Gruffitt shape shifts into Hugh Jackman's Wolverine and 

Y. M. Nelson: Yes. Yeah. 

Perry C.: And so, they, they cut that out and they, 'cause they weren't sure how, what, how it do and if it was gonna be successful, then they were talking about like linking them together, but it wasn't successful enough and so they never linked up together.

Marcie: Okay. 

[00:49:19] Star rating

Y. M. Nelson: All right. So, I'm glad I got that, got that figured out in my mind. And with that let's give this one a good reads rating. So, for those of us who may not know we rate this based on Good reads because we are supposed to be a book podcast, although, you know, this is from comic books. So, there we go.

So, the Good Reads rating is One star, we did not like it. Two stars. It was okay. Three stars. We did like it. Four stars, we really liked it. And five stars, it was amazing. And on this show, you can rate in between.

So, Marcie, what about you? What is your rating for this one, and any reason why that we don't know yet.

Marcie: I would give it a good four and a half. I thought it was a good story. Like I said, I was part of a diverse group, and we all enjoyed it. Which I think helps me recommend it. It was brilliantly acted. I love the pace. Yeah. This one I would, I would recommend and I'll definitely watch again.

Jen G.: Mm-hmm. 

Y. M. Nelson: Awesome sauce. Perry, what about you? What would you rate it? 

Perry C.: Yeah, I'll go.

Y. M. Nelson: And why? 

Perry C.: I'll go 4.5 as as well. You know, it's great film. Just like Marcie said, well, very well acted ver great story. It's just those, those few little, you know, very minor kind of quibbles brings it down by, half a point for me, like the, I wish we got to see more of taskmaster.

I wish we got to see more of Ava. I wish we got to see all the characters have their own little room to break out of and I wish we could have seen, get a little bit more meat on Bucky's development too. But other than that, you know, it was very impressed. I was not expecting it to be, to like it as much as I did.

So yeah. 4.5, 

Y. M. Nelson: yeah. Jen, what about you? What's your rating and why? 

Jen G.: I loved this movie, so I'm, I'm gonna go with a I was gonna give it a five, but Perry's right, there's a few things out that I would've liked added to it, but yeah, I really love this movie. So, we're gonna go fi 4 7 4 0.75 on this one.

'cause it's just, so perfect. I love, like I said before, you know, when we started, I'm here for an interesting story. I really want to know. And I like that Marvel has taken their success and turned it into turned it into being able to explore story and explore characters in different ways that are outside of what we'd normally think of in superhero movies and TV shows.

So, I really love to see them flexing those muscles and really and really giving us something. Interesting and different than what we'd expect and, and have that sort of reflection back on who we are as, as human beings. And I just really appreciate that they're, going there and they're being brave and that means a lot to me.

So, you know what? I'm gonna give it a five. Yeah. 

Y. M. Nelson: Alright. 

Jen G.: I'm just gonna, I'm gonna, go back to my original, I'm gonna go back to the five because honestly it was extremely brave of them to put this movie out and I just love that they did it. So. 

Y. M. Nelson: Okay. Alright. I'm, since you're going to five, I'm gonna give it 4.75, which is what I was gonna give it anyway, and of course my big reason for it being 4.75 is because we did not get enough of Sebastian Stan.

That is all.

See him wind his arm. Gosh, I love it. Anyway, no, lemme stop.

So yes, I really loved where they went with this movie. I really loved the things they, I feel like, yes, they did some experimentation here by bringing some of their character analyses kind of character in depth that they have in the TV shows, bringing it to the big screen and to an ensemble.

That's the other thing about it, because the TV shows focus on one big character, like Loki is one big character. I mean, are other characters too. 

Jen G.: Mm-hmm. 

Y. M. Nelson: But like we know in Hawkeye there's there's also Yelena and Hawkeye, but a lot of them focus in depth on one character.

But here we get that ensemble Avengers feel. But we also get that TV character development kind of thing that going deep into the character, and we don't lose any of the superhero stuff. The bangs are not as big, but they're still explosions here. New York is still blowing up here. I don't know how many times they're gonna do this to New York.

Poor New York City. Geez. But, you know, you know, stuff is happening.

Like, you know, a, a mountain is, you know, being lit on fire here. You know, there's a lot of stuff going on, action stuff. But then there's also a lot of in-depth character development stuff that I love.

Jen G.: Mm-hmm. 

Y. M. Nelson: And yes, there's just a few little things, which is why I'm going 4.75 that we talked about that.

That don't get it right to five for me. But I agree with Marcie. I really feel like people slept on this one and they don't need to. This is the one that you don't sleep on. And hopefully they will come back to this one. So, I am so happy to talk about Thunderbolts* with all of you.

[00:55:16] If you are dealing with suicidal thoughts

Y. M. Nelson: And so, one thing before we leave, if you are listening or watching and you find yourself, in a crisis state and you feel suicidal, please do not deal with that alone and contact in the US and Canada you can contact 988. You can call or text and have someone help you.

There's also 9 8 8 lifeline.org. Please. Don't deal with a crisis situation alone. You are not alone. There are people who can help you. Call or text 988 or you can go to 9 8 8 lifeline.org.

Because even though we're doing some laughing about Avengers and Red Guardian, depression is something that we need to address. And you don't have to do that alone. Just like the movie says, you do not have to do that alone. Mm-hmm. They can help. So that's that.

Thanks everybody for being on and you know, I'm gonna have y'all back for Fantastic Four of course. Since we talked about it so much. 

Marcie: Yay. 

Y. M. Nelson: Hi, want to get show notes from this and future episodes in your inbox? Then subscribe to Nerdy Romantics Newsletter at Nerdy Romantics podcast.com/subscribe. Nerdy romantics newsletter not only has shown notes, but nerdy and romantic recs and sneak peeks and exclusives of my spicy, nerdy romances and love stories.

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