Episode 17 – The Strength Report: Why coaching shouldn’t be a perk

In this episode, we sit down with Sam Heighway, founder of Be Business Fit and author of The Strength Report 2025, to unpack what 170 UK leaders and professionals told her about coaching in their organisations. The findings reveal a clear appetite for coaching, but also persistent barriers that keep it out of reach for many.

We discuss:

•  Why coaching is a necessity for confident leadership, not a luxury for the few
• The gap between perception and reality: “coaching is for anyone” vs who actually gets it
• The hidden costs of not coaching and how to make the ROI case
• Practical steps to normalise coaching access across all levels

Whether you’re a senior leader, HR decision-maker or simply curious about how coaching strengthens culture and performance, this conversation offers insight, evidence and actionable ideas.

You can link with the speakers here: 

• Karen Smart, faculty, the AoEC – host
• Sam Heighway, director and founder Be Business Fit - guest panellist 

You can also connect with Sam via Instagram or Facebook. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:10

Hello and welcome to Coaching Conversations with the AOEC podcast. I'm Karen Smart, one of the faculty, and in this episode we have the strength report why coaching shouldn't be a perk. I'm with our guest, Sam Hayway. Sam is um an alumnus of the AOEC, having graduated in 2019, and um has a wealth of experience that she'll tell you about in a moment, as well as being a coach. Sam's done an amazing piece of research that we draw on in this conversation. But before we get into that, let me invite you to introduce yourself, Sam.

SPEAKER_02 0:52

Hey, hi Karen and hi everyone. Absolute pleasure to be asked to join the podcast today. Um, yeah, so my name is Sam Hayway. Um I'm uh I've got 30 years HR experience. Um, that's my background is HR, um, both in the public and private sector. And I set up my own business, Be BusinessFit, um, in 2019, um, at the same time that I became qualified with the AOEC, and initially that was about providing HR support and advice to businesses, things like contracts of employment, policies, procedures, and so on. But over the years, what I guess I've really figured out is what I love doing, and I now focus on two things. One is carrying out grievance and disciplinary investigations, so those sticky things that organizations need somebody completely independent to come in and deal with and take that pain away. And the second thing I do is coach leaders and managers on a one-to-one basis to really help them build the confidence to tackle those difficult conversations that so often get swept under the carpet and then lead to those investigations. So I'd much prefer us to have more coaching happening and prevent these issues from happening in the first place. So, so yeah, that's that's just a little bit about me and what I do.

SPEAKER_00 2:25

Thank you. And I know that you're based in in Wales, aren't you? And um, you're an influential voice on the uh HR circuit in Wales. So we've invited you today because you have done an impressive piece of work. Um you've put together a survey um which you've called the Strength Report. And um, I wonder if you can tell us a bit about what prompted you to do that piece of research.

SPEAKER_02 2:53

Yeah, so I guess really for a number of years now, and particularly since I I qualified, that I have thought that there's not enough coaching happening. And what I really wanted to understand is why that was the case and what were the barriers to coaching. And I started to have these anecdotal conversations with clients that I was working with, both doing investigations and not, um, and also friends and people that I've worked with in the past, just to try and really get their view as to what they thought the barriers were, and also what I saw as the benefits of coaching. And what I was seeing in particular is that people were being promoted into positions and then not being given the support that they needed in those positions, particularly in those early days, those first sort of three to six months in role when it's so crucial. Um, and even at the senior level, people were having coaches but not necessarily talking about it. Um, and although I was having these anecdotal conversations, I thought if I really want to advocate for coaching, I know that when I've gone to financial directors in the past, for example, in organizations, they want to see the numbers, they want to see the data. Um, and that's you know, you've got to get past that FD, haven't you, before you get any further. So I thought, well, if if that's what we really want to do, I need to have the data that's gonna sort of back it up and support it. And when I started to look into is there any kind of research out there, I found it quite sort of difficult to get that information. So I thought, right, I'll do it myself. Um, I'd just throw myself into it and see what happens. So I designed this survey. Um, I got in touch with a few other coaches and said, would you support me in doing this? Um and and they did. So there was uh there were five of us in the end that put some energy behind it, and then we launched it in the summer, and we through our own networks and constantly banging banging the drum through social media, um, we got um 170 managers and leaders responding to it, which I'll be honest, I was probably hoping for closer to 500. Um, but at the same time, I now know that actually 170 responses is is pretty good. Um and the quality of what actually came back has been has been magical, I have to say. So um, so yeah, that's really what the driver was getting the data in the first place to understand what the barriers are to coaching.

SPEAKER_00 5:46

Well, I think that's amazing. I think 170 is a real achievement. I mean, it's a statistically significant sample. So yeah, so so that's great. Well done for doing that. What surprised you when you when you got the results, do you think? What was the most surprising thing?

SPEAKER_02 6:03

I think I think one of the surprises was the fact that that what I was thinking was I actually saw in data. And I think it so it was a pleasant surprise when I saw that. Um so I guess I kind of thought, oh what was so wonderful about it is everything that I've been thinking about and talking about with other people was now actually realized in the data that came back. So I would say that's probably the the biggest, the biggest thing that that came through. I mean, there's lots of like smaller things that that came through in the report, particularly in terms of that that it's not being fed through at all levels in businesses and organisations, but but generally kind of the the data that that came back, it was that feeling of thank goodness I've done this, because actually it's kind of validated everything that I've been thinking about for the past five years or so.

SPEAKER_00 7:12

Yes, yeah, well, it's encouraging, and I I know that when I took a look at the report, one of the things that um slightly perturbed me, I guess, is the lack of understanding around coaching. So I think you've got the show me the evidence from the finance directors often, and then also many, many managers, even sometimes senior people, not quite getting what coaching is and particularly where it's most appropriate to be used. So I I for me that was something that quite stood out in the report, and I wonder whether you could just reflect on that.

SPEAKER_02 7:55

I I totally agree. I actually think we've got quite a job to do as coaches to talk about what coaching is and what it isn't. I think there's quite, it appears certainly that there's some confusion about what coaching is and what it isn't. There's even in introductions that I've been having with people, sometimes when people say, Oh, so it's like therapy then, and you've almost then got to say, you know, have the whole conversation about absolutely not, um, it's not therapy. Um, and being really clear about what it what it is and how it can support and help individuals to change their behaviour, improve their performance, you know, give them give them the confidence really to excel in the job that they are in. And I I I don't, I think collectively it's almost like we all need to come together to figure out how we get that message out there. And although I've done this piece of work, I think, if anything, I'm hoping it gives the platform for other coaches to use it and think about how they're communicating what they do as a coach and how they're advertising themselves as coaches and how they talk about it with organisations. Um, because I do think that's a big, a big gap is is that understanding of what coaching is.

SPEAKER_00 9:25

Yeah, I think you're right. I mean, I know I'm thinking of my own when I'm coaching, I try to really set out what the roles and responsibilities of coaching clients are, because I I sometimes think with such um knowledge-based logic, uh it facts, information culture, it's quite difficult to put your finger on what it is that you're doing if you're not actually advising or providing solutions for someone. So I think I think right, we do have some work to do. I don't know whether you've you know experimented since the report with that.

SPEAKER_02 10:05

I think what I'm just trying to do is simplify the message really in terms of what coaching is and trying not to overcomplicate it and link it to so so one of the things that I the way that I sort of link my coaching is I talk about the issues that I see arising as a result of the investigations that I do, and how many of these conversations could have been nipped in the butt if the managers had had the right support. And that's how I make the link back to coaching is giving those managers that confidential space to think about what are the difficult challenges that you've got at the moment and how are you going to go about tackling those, and helping you come up with the answers and the right approach to having those difficult conversations. So I try and sort of turn it around and into something that they can kind of latch it onto that they might really be battling with. Um, I really love Julie Starr's definition of coaching where she just talks about the fact it's a series of conversations that can influence the way that you behave. Um, and I think it's a very it's a very simple and straightforward definition. And I think, you know, I think there's a danger with coaching that we can overcomplicate things. Um I think sometimes you just need to sort of bring it down a bit and just you know normalise it a little bit more.

SPEAKER_00 11:41

Yes, well, you know, that that's um a good ambition, and um, you know, one of the one of the factors that I I saw in your report was um which sort of slightly links to preventing or avoiding investigations and difficult situations is performance management and using coaching in that scenario. I I I I wonder whether that's I'm sure that you get asked about that all the time.

SPEAKER_02 12:10

Yeah, and do you know what? So um quite a few years ago I worked with somebody who I've got a huge amount of respect for. Um his name's Frank Devine, and he talked about um the fact that you shouldn't fix a gap two problem with a gap one intervention. And his gap one intervention, so his gap one intervention is about coaching, where you know, where somebody has got the um has got the potential, we've got the time, we want to develop them, we want to give them the support in order for them to excel in their role. A gap two issue is where you've actually got somebody that's performing below the line and needs performance improvement. And so often what sometimes happens is the boss will come to the coach and say, Can you help fix this person who's got a performance issue? And my personal view is really it's the boss that should be performance managing that individual, and it's not for the coach to do that. If anything, the boss might need a coach to help them with the conversation that they need to have about performance. So that's kind of the that's the approach that I take. Other people may not feel like that, but I think coaching is not about fixing people, in my view. Coaching is about giving people that safe, confidential space to talk about the things that they would otherwise not talk about and would get kicked under the carpet. That's yeah, that's my view on that.

SPEAKER_00 13:52

I I really take on board what you've said there. I think that resonates for me also. Um I guess we're sort of going down a bit of an alleyway of thinking of the negatives, but you picked out some really amazing opportunities that coaching provides. I wonder whether we might sort of flip it a bit and uh and uh look at the the light side.

unknown 14:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:17

No, absolutely. And I think one of the one of the things that where coaching I think can absolutely support people, managers, leaders, is with training and development. So where they go on management and leadership training courses, there's I think there's a real opportunity there for coaches to work with the managers that have been on the leadership management training to help them implement what they've learned into practice. Because whilst you learn all the theory and you've been in the classroom and you've got the certificate, actually implementing it and putting it into practice is a whole different ball game. Suddenly, you've got to look people in the eye and you've got to have these difficult conversations with them, or you've got to look at how you're um going to be supporting their development to um for the future, and and that's where I think um coaching can actually support managers and leaders in a in a more positive way. But unfortunately, what we see is coaching is one of the first things that gets dropped off. So organisations look at the cost of a management leadership course, and then when coaching is recommended, they then say, Well, so how much is the coaching going to be? Oh, that's gonna be X thousand pounds or what have in which case, right, that goes, and we'll just focus on the training. Um so I think there's there's huge opportunity there for businesses to actually look at how coaching can really benefit and get full return on investment as far as the training is concerned and and give the managers the um, as I say, the support that they need to implement what they've learned.

SPEAKER_00 16:10

It's a bit frustrating really because when you hear we hear testimony from people on our courses and from clients all the time of the power that coaching has. And yet it is often the first thing that gets gets cut. Um I mean what struck me to counter some of the ROI discussions that that well thoughts that came up were was some of the benefits. So the things that really stood out for me were you know, what is the value of a manager taking braver decisions or having more courageous conversations or you know, dealing with perhaps difficult people? Um, what is the value of having a more confident manager or someone that thinks differently? And so how can we sort of harness those benefits and turn them into something that speaks to the decision makers?

SPEAKER_02 17:12

So I think some of this comes back to looking at the challenges that businesses and organizations are currently dealing with. So um whether they've done engagement surveys or whether they're seeing people leave the business, leave the organization, maybe they're struggling um to recruit, um, is really looking at the the issues that they're having within the business and how then coaching could maybe support those things from escalating or getting any worse or even happening in the first place. So if if they're noticing that teams aren't engaged any as much as what they were 12 months ago, why is that? What is driving that? What is happening? And then what is it that could be done differently, whether that is for the manager or whether that's even with team coaching? Because I mean I mean I'm very much talking about one-to-one coaching here, but obviously there's a huge space for for team coaching as well, and really looking at how um teams engage and work together and collaborate, and that they don't work in silos. I mean, and some of the quotes that we got back um that are in the report, and they're they're all um, as we've put in the report, they are they're anonymized, but they are actual quotes. We've not changed them at all. Um, and I think when you read some of them, when they when you've got, as you say, somebody that generally says to help me think differently about the challenges and not go for the quick fix, it's like it makes your heart sing, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_00 18:55

It does, it really does, yes.

SPEAKER_02 18:58

But I think it's um sometimes you know, there's so much going on in the business world at the moment. Obviously, we've just come out of the budget, and obviously, we're all still reeling from that. Um, there's changes that have been announced in terms of the employee relations bill, we've got impacts of AI happening, um, we're working in a multi-generational workforce. There's just so much that everybody's having to deal with that inevitably that's gonna have an effect. And if we don't sort of look at what the spiral effect could be, or maybe we're even having that spiral effect at the minute now, we don't start looking at what could be done to fix it, we're just gonna keep on going down. So I think also that's where coaches have got a role to play, is working with managers and leaders to stop that spiral effect from from happening.

SPEAKER_00 19:57

Sure. So if there are any um HR or L and D leaders listening, what would you advise them in order to widen access to coaching?

SPEAKER_02 20:10

I think the the first thing would be to talk, you know, just to talk about it because at a senior level, so one of the things that's coming out of the report, which which didn't surprise me, is that it's that coaching is very much seen at a senior level rather than all the way through the organisation. But even at that senior level, people don't talk about it, people don't talk about the fact that they've got a coach, um, or it's seen as a bit of a status thing. So I, you know, I I've got a coach. And I think there's also the whole piece around the fact that if you have a coach and you talk about it, that then you okay, so have you got a performance issue? Um, is there something wrong with you? And that's why you've got a coach. And but I think what we need to do is have more managers and leaders talking about having a coach and the benefits that they have seen and making it more, oh, okay, understandable. That's why coaching can help. And I think HR, if if there's something that they can do, it's encouraging the leaders and managers in their business in their organizations to talk about the experiences that they've had of coaching. But also if they're thinking about how they widen it or how they could do more of it, is start start small. Um, don't just go in with right, we're going to do a massive program now, is really just just try, just try it. And next time you're looking at recruiting for a head of department or a supervisor or manager or whatever it might be, is offer that person the opportunity to have a coach for three to six months and just measure what the benefits. If that is for that period of time, and how it supports that person in that role as they developing, particularly if it's their first management position, giving them a coach at that opportunity, I think could just reap huge benefits for the individual as well as the business and of course the team that they're going to be managing and leading. You know, so often people get promoted because they've got potential and they love, they kind of think, oh, I like the idea of being a manager, and that's fantastic. And I'm I'm now going to be in my first management role. And then suddenly they're in that position thinking, oh my God, all the stuff that I was moaning about before, I've now actually got to deal with. And I better not tell my manager how I'm feeling about this and how uncertain I feel, because they might think they've made the wrong decision in promoting me. So I'll just keep my head down and I'll just battle through this all on my own. So I think that's where HR could potentially look at introducing coaching, um, just doing these small um opportunities and just piloting it and seeing how it goes and then grow it from there.

SPEAKER_00 23:20

Well, you made it seem quite easy though, just measure it. Measure the result, measure, measure the impact of coaching your manager through the this this transition. What advice would you give to any coaches out there who are in that position? How would you measure it?

SPEAKER_02 23:39

Um, so I would probably go back to what are some of the pain points that the business and organization is suffering from at the moment? What are the things that they've seen over the last 12 to 18 months that they're struggling with? And does that relate to things like um productivity has gone down, the number of employee relation issues has increased, attrition has gone up, struggling to recruit key talent or retain key talent. So really looking at those sorts of things, um, first of all, and then looking at right, what could what does then good look like three to six months if we do this coaching? What is it that we want to see change? And if a if a team has been struggling with attrition or ER issues or a drop in productivity, is then looking at how that changes six months, twelve months time. Now, coaching's not necessarily going to be the solution to all of those things, but it might just help to look at things like how the team are engaging and communicating and talking to each other and opening up um opportunities to um tackle things, have the right behaviours in place, have everybody collaborating in the way that they should be and demonstrating the right values that that are important for the business. And I think that's the starting point is looking at the pain points and then looking at it in six to twelve months' time and seeing what's changed.

SPEAKER_00 25:17

Yes. And how would you suggest reporting that? Because I think at a certain point you said um to arrange KPIs around the desired outcomes, which makes a lot of sense, but how would you manage that in terms of roles and responsibilities?

SPEAKER_02 25:36

Um so I think that's something that you would need as a coach. This is what I would do. I would agree that with the organization that I was working with. So once you understand the pain points that they've got, is then looking at what does then good look like in six months' time. And if, for example, you know, they've they've got their attrition rate is at 10% and they want to bring it right down to six percent, or maybe it's sickness absence. You know, we're seeing a lot of things related to mental health at the moment, and managers and leaders are actually struggling to have conversations and and moving away from talking to people about mental health because they're scared of broaching the conversation for fear of saying the wrong thing and offending people. Um and so it could be that there's been an increase in absence levels. So it's really looking at what is the key metric that the business really wants to focus on, and then how could coaching be one of the things that could support the change of what that looks like in six months' time.

SPEAKER_00 26:51

That sounds amazing. I realise one of the barriers that comes up a lot was cost. You've got this sort of tension between opening up access for as many people as possible to have access to coaching and balancing that against budgets and costs, particularly given what we've already said about how hard it is to prevent coaching from being cut out of um programs. I just wonder whether perhaps that's something that uh is worthy of exploration.

SPEAKER_02 27:28

Yeah, I mean in terms of costs, and obviously this is very this is very much based on my personal experience, but through doing some really quite complex investigations, I see the impact that those investigations have on morale, on productivity, people working together, the whispering that happens behind closed doors because of whatever's going on, let alone before you sort of think about people being suspended from work and the costs associated with actually carrying out the investigation itself, on management time, bringing in somebody like me to conduct the investigations, and also the impact on reputation. So that reputational risk when it comes to investigations can be huge. Um, there's things like Glassdoor now, where everything is so much more transparent about what it's like to work for a particular business and organization, and I think that's something that we just really need to be mindful of. So, you know, the I I just I've put an example in the report, and it's and it's based on a real life case, and as it happens, that particular case ended up being a more significant cost than what's than what's in the report, and that in itself was you know um in in excess of £30,000. So you then sort of throw in legal costs, which we know can sort of could sort of blow everything out of the water, and then you think, okay, well, what if actually we'd given somebody some a coach when they were new enroll? Would that have helped to prevent some of these things from happening? And what I wanted to understand was how much people were prepared to pay for coaching, how much they felt was normal. And you'll see in the report it's in the region of about £2,000 for six months worth of coaching. That's one session of 90 minutes every month. Um, and you kind of balance that then against the potential cost of not having coaching. So you either invest in somebody and somebody's development as a manager who is could be new enroll, could be have been in post for many, many years, could operate at any level of the business, or do you look at the potential fallout of a grievance investigation? And I think one of the things that we need to do is look at how we can give coaching to people at any level of a business. It doesn't have to be at that senior level. And I know the stats in the report show that it came out at that senior level, but I think we we really need to advocate more for supporting our middle managers, our first line managers, because they are going to be the future senior leaders in you know five, ten years' time. So we've got you know, this is about setting them up um for success, really.

SPEAKER_00 30:38

So I wonder if there's any other stories or quotes from the research that uh that might speak to that.

SPEAKER_02 30:46

So there's there's one here, actually. I was new to a leadership role and needed someone to help me find my style and confidence. Um that's classic, isn't it? Absolutely classic, yeah. Yeah. So, right, just absolutely and when I read some of these quotes, I was just like, oh my goodness, it just literally brought tears to my eyes. Um, it genuinely did. Um the other words that people were using were things like apply, confidence, embed, practice, follow-up, reinforce, implement. So these were the words that we were sort of picking out in the feedback that we got of um how it's how it all came through. And I know this is probably a bit more of a you know, a bigger picture view, Karen, and might might sort of sound quite grand, but I I really think that as coaches we've got a responsibility to support our managers and leaders to help our economy. And that that as I say, that might sound really grand, but I I think you know, we we we're really at a difficult point, difficult point with everything that's going on, as I talked about earlier on. I I just see that coaching has such a massive part to play that if we don't support our managers and leaders, particularly in small to medium-sized organizations as well as the big ones, then what what does that mean for the future in sort of 10 or 15 years time as far as the economy is concerned? And I know that you know that sounds very big, but that that is kind of genuinely how I feel um um how passionate I feel about coaching, really.

SPEAKER_00 32:29

And that that really shines through in all that you've said, and I can see it in your face. I know we're our our listeners can't see that, but I can see that with passion shining through. And I I I I don't think it's grand, I think it's a really noble endeavour. It really links to our purpose here at the ABC about equipping people with the right skills as managers and leaders, and even to to as you know, as you did, to qualify and take a coaching qualification is an amazing way to transform oneself and you know, really understand who we are, because I think often we jump onto a career bus and it's not until we suddenly find we've taken the wrong destination that um we're able to reflect and perhaps um you know re redefine ourselves. So I I think there's that. Um and uh the other thing I was gonna say is that um the world is so difficult. We have so many wicked problems from demands to work hybrid working to people having to travel because of the cost of housing miles and miles to m young people not being recruited because they're being technology. Um, and then and and what does the future hold for that with coaching if we've got we kind of have kind of pipeline with gaps people not coming through the pipeline who would be the managers of the future are maybe not there. So I think what you're saying becomes even more important.

SPEAKER_02 34:21

Yeah, and I I totally agree, and I don't think there's enough coaches out there. I think there's I think there needs to be more coaches, and I also don't think it necessarily needs to be something that you do um later in your career either. Um and it's you know, okay, I that's what I did, um, but I I do wonder whether there's a perception that coaching is something that you do when you're sort of at the latter end of your career, and what I would really love to see is some coaches being qualified who are um early in their career as well. Um, and because I think there's a huge space for coaches generally from lots of different backgrounds, lots of different experiences, and we each have our own unique way of um of coaching and um of sharing and and supporting with um with our clients. So I just think there needs to be more of us really. Um and and it's funny, you know, some people say, Oh, aren't you in aren't you in competition with with those other coaches? And okay, you could say I am, but a client will choose to work with me because they want to work with with me as a coach, and they might choose to work with a different coach because of their experiences or their background or what have you. Um, and that's fine. I'm totally okay with that. There absolutely needs to be that connection um that you that you have with somebody um as a client coach relationship, coachy relationship. So I think that's crucial.

SPEAKER_00 36:16

Well, what I can report that we see here at ABC is a much more diverse population of coaches in training compared to a few years ago. And um, so we are seeing multi-generational managers and leaders coming through, much younger people, more diverse people, people from diverse backgrounds, people uh with different abilities. And I think that that does bode well. But we've got a lot of work to, you know, we can't be complacent. And you know, one of the things that I struggle with a lot is a young person coming into coaching might look around and see so many people, that the competition and and say, Well, can you actually make a living out of doing this? And um I think you know we're very ethical here at the AOC and we try to walk a balanced line of saying, Well, yes, absolutely you can, and not everyone who invests in their training does. So, what do you think defines someone that really makes it?

SPEAKER_02 37:27

Um I think so it's I I'll be honest, it's it's taking taken me five or six years to to get there, and it's interesting because when I actually qualified that whole process that I went through of who am I and how do I coach was just incredible. But I I have definitely grown and definitely changed, and I'm I'm solutions focused, that is generally the approach that I take, and also strengths focused. One of my core values is is strength, and so that is absolutely something that is a theme that's seeing you lifting those weights.

SPEAKER_00 38:12

That's another conversation for another. Well, it's all strength though, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 38:16

It's a strength, yes, yeah, but the um yeah, the uh that whole piece of when you when you qualify, you do think, and I I've listened to um a podcast of the AOS the other day, and somebody else said the same thing. You sort of come out of this, you come out of doing qualification and think, right, that's it, you're gonna have clients queuing up at the door, and it just doesn't work, it just doesn't work like that. And you have to put the work in, you have to do the networking, you have to do the self-promotion. I think social media plays a huge part, but you do have to put yourself out there and be really clear about what it is that you're offering. And I feel now I'm getting there, but it's um it's it's not been easy, I think. And having having the um the portfolio, if you like, of the the HR experience and using that in terms of the investigations that I do and how coaching could help prevent some of that is is kind of my take, and that's the approach that I take on it. So, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:22

That makes a lot of sense. Time is running away with this, and I'm really keen to hear about your survey findings and recommendations. So, um, yeah, let's um let's hear your thoughts on the future.

SPEAKER_02 39:39

Yeah, so I I guess I kind of touched on this a little bit earlier on, um about how HR could um think about coaching within their businesses. But I think one of the the my first recommendation would be to make coaching part of your recruitment package. So, really thinking about when you're recruiting for that line manager or head of department or whatever position is really thinking about what if we offered the successful candidate three to six months worth of coaching as part of the package, as part of the onboarding package. The individual may not want it, but they might well want it and they might actually really benefit from it. So that would be that would be my first recommendation.

SPEAKER_00 40:31

Um, just to interrupt you, there I think if I were coming into a role and someone offered me a coach, I think that sounds quite fancy. To me, that's speaking well of that employer, you know, they're taking my onboarding really serious so seriously, they want to make sure that I'm going to be successful.

unknown 40:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:52

They've given and that's sort of there's a little bit of a ooh, you know, yes, I'm gonna be important. I am important.

SPEAKER_02 41:00

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And that's the and also I think if you saw an advert that said for the first six months enroll, there's the opportunity for you to have a coach to set you up for success and help you to thrive in your role, and you saw that in the in a job advert, you'd be, I'm gonna apply for that. That's like it really, as you say, it really sings to this organization is serious about my development. So, yes, so that would be my first recommendation. The second one is to really think about integrating coaching into development. So, this whole piece around absolutely give managers and leaders the training that they need, but then also think about how they look to implement that and put it into practice afterwards. So, although they've learned the theory and they've done all the classroom stuff, even and if it's a modular type of training course, is there an opportunity for them to have a coach once a month whilst they're going through that leadership development? And then the third one is around sort of making permission to ask explicit. So if people want to have a coach, give them the opportunity to put their hands up and say, Yes, I'm really interested. Um, there were when I worked for um my previous employer, we actually introduced a coaching program and we did exactly this. We said, Look, we're gonna set this up, it's open to anybody, and we're gonna pilot it in this part of the organization. Please let us know if you're interested. This is what it is. Here's a bit more information. You can talk to us or this person if you'd like to know a little bit more. And we got a real put we got people that are actually pulling for it and asking for it. Yeah, it was it was fantastic. And from that, then we actually also then ended up having um coaching action groups set up, and then people working with themselves because they've been on the receiving end of coaching, they were then actually giving it a go themselves internally as well. So um, so yeah, they're kind of the three main recommendations that I would make for that's really clear.

SPEAKER_00 43:22

That's really clear, and it's encouraging to hear if you know you've some personal experience of of that success. Yeah. What do you see as the future? So if you are to repeat this survey in three years' time, for example, what will you hope to have changed to?

SPEAKER_02 43:43

Um, so first of all, I'm gonna repeat it next year in 2020. Oh, you're repeating it next year?

SPEAKER_01 43:47

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_02 43:48

Yeah, yeah, I'm gonna repeat it next year. Um and it's so some people, when they look at the report, they'll see that it's South Wales focused because that's where. I'm based. We have had some responses from elsewhere in the UK, particularly in the southeast. And what I'm really keen to do is to look at a greater representation from across the UK. So that's what I'm aiming for next year. Maybe I'll start hitting up closer to that 500 number that I was talking about at the beginning of the conversation.

SPEAKER_00 44:21

Well, I love your ambitions.

SPEAKER_02 44:23

Yeah. Um, but the I guess what I'd really love to see is the fact that this whole rather than seeing it being focused at the top of the organization, that actually we're starting to see that coaching happens through the organisation at a number of different levels. That's what I would love to see. I would also like to see. So one of the barriers that came up is people were scared to ask for coaching. I'd like to see that number go down and there to be more coaching that is um happening alongside leadership management development. So rather than it being dropped off, I'd like to see more of that actually being added on. So that's you know, what I'm hoping for is actually through the work that we all need to do as coaches, we start to sort of see an increase up in some of those figures.

SPEAKER_00 45:15

Well, I think that it sort of is echoed with the way we see the world here at ABC. One of the things that we think about a lot is not just access to coaching, but actually not necessarily making leaders and managers into coaches unless they want to be, but actually giving them skills to coaching skills, not necessarily to coach, but to have more effective, perhaps more courageous conversations with their peers, with people around them. Um, that's something that's a bit of a focus for us, and something that we think's really important. And so that they're they're getting that felt experience of being in coaching relationships, but then also being able to learn by doing a certain amount of it themselves. I I don't know whether that's something that you've thought about bringing into the survey.

SPEAKER_02 46:13

Yeah, um, absolutely. I think there's there's definitely um some thought around it's more about having those courageous, brave conversations. We we certainly need to be having more of them. I think there are there are a lot of courageous conversations that are happening, but sometimes the ones that take real bravery are those one-to-one meetings that that need to happen and that aren't happening, really sort of tackling behaviour that needs to be tackled, or just talking to people about challenges and issues that that they've got to understand and develop relationships.

SPEAKER_00 46:54

So it really takes me back to supporting the manager that has to be the one that has the difficult conversation. I think I think that's obviously a real sweet spot for coaching to be really effective and to support the process and hopefully to alleviate some of the problems we've alluded to. Yeah. Well, that sounds a bright future, and I'm I can't wait to hear the next instalment of your ongoing commitment of research. You yeah, I I really admi it's very inspiring what you're doing. And I think that you're really helping to educate the business world in this, and and that actually the coach the the the coaching survey in itself is in part shaping behaviours and and and future choices because because it it's sort of sensitizing people, isn't it, to to some of the issues. So I really admire that. Oh, thank you. Thank you very much. You've been an amazing guest. Thank you. I've loved chatting with you, and I really want to thank you for your generosity in sharing the research with us, but your thoughts and your recommendations and your hopes for the future as well.

SPEAKER_02 48:15

No, you're very welcome. And if anybody would like to chat to me further about it, would is is interested in just having a conversation or you'd like to a Teams call or to meet with some of your managers and leaders about coaching and some of the content in there, I'd be really happy to do that. So I I can't I can't get this message out on my own. Um, and so the more of us that get that message out, the better. So yeah, I'd really welcome you spreading the word for me. Um if if if any if anyone is interested, very very happy to talk further. Contact you, Sal. So um my website is bbusinessfit.co.uk. My contact details are also on there, and I'm on LinkedIn. I have an Instagram page as well, be BusinessFit, um, Facebook. Um, so any of those methods is absolutely fine. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 49:18

Brilliant. Thank you so much. Lovely to see you today.

SPEAKER_02 49:22

Thank you, Karen. Really appreciated the opportunity. Thank you.