Should Coaching Youth Hockey Be Emotionally Draining?

In this episode of Our Kids Play Hockey, hosts Lee Elias and Mike Bonelli delve into the emotional aspects of youth hockey coaching. They discuss the important role coaches play in not only teaching the game but also in shaping young lives. The episode extends beyond game tactics and drills, offering a deeper look into the emotional investment and patience required in coaching youth sports.

Lee and Mike share practical tips on how to engage young players, maintain their interest, and utilize educational techniques to make practices more effective and enjoyable. The discussion highlights the significance of building emotional connections with players, the impact of positive reinforcement, and the advantages of a station-based coaching approach.

The episode emphasizes the importance of setting realistic goals, teaching fundamental skills, and appreciating each young athlete's unique journey. Lee and Mike provide insights on finding the right balance between discipline and development, stressing the importance of fostering a love for the game in young players. This episode is a valuable resource for coaches and parents, filled with stories and strategies to enhance the youth hockey experience and celebrate success on and off the ice.

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 1:55

Mike and I dive into this episode kind of as coaches today to discuss whether coaching should be emotionally draining or if it's an emotional investment of your time, and we go through a lot of the tips and tactics that we use, really mentoring ourselves as younger coaches in a way of things we wish we knew then now on how to approach practice and how to approach coaching youth hockey a little bit of a better mindset that helps you get through the season, helps you get through the year. We also discuss a lot about how parents should be approaching this and kind of viewing their coaches in this episode. So it's a really great one. Before we dive into the episode, if you love what you're hearing, what you obviously do because many of you listen you've made us a top 10 show in hockey. We'd appreciate if you would pause real quick and give us a five star review. Wherever you're listening Apple Podcast, spotify, google Podcast, outcast whatever you're listening we appreciate if you could give us that extra boost of those reviews. It really helps us a lot. And if you haven't done so already, make sure to check out our page on Facebook. Our Kids Play Hockey. Our group is where you can ask questions. You can continue discussion from some of the episodes we've had. We have a lot of people there that post as themselves or anonymously asking for help from the community. It's really been a wonderful place for everybody. So check that out again. Our Kids Play Hockey on Facebook Rank. Our Kids Play Hockey wherever you listen to podcasts. But, above all, enjoy this episode with Mike and I as we discuss should hockey coaching be emotionally draining. Here we go. Hello hockey friends and families around the world, and welcome to another edition of Our Kids Play Hockey. We have a fantastic question today, submitted by one of our users. Mike and I were discussing it on the air for a while. Mike. Yes, lee, go ahead. I have the question here. I'm going to give it to the audience now. They're eagerly waiting and I've been teasing them too long. The question is should coaching youth hockey be emotionally draining? It's a great question. Many people listening right now going. I'm emotionally drained as a parent, as a coach, but today we're going to discuss this as coaches, of how emotionally draining or not emotionally draining coaching youth hockey is, because I think it's an important perspective that everyone gets. Mike, I really believe that.

Speaker 2: 4:09

Yeah, well, yeah, I get everybody. Yes, you are by definition. When you're coaching at any level, you're emotionally invested. Hopefully, hopefully, you're not some cyborg and just come out there and don't have any care about who you're working with and what you're doing, you won't last thing if you do that, maybe you will. I see a lot of cyborgs out there, though, so I think if you're emotionally invested, that's probably a good sign you care, but should you? But what is that emotional investment consists of, and at what detriment to your emotional health Does it, should it manifest itself? Well, I can tell you this With youth hockey, specifically, the fine, the fine, our youth hockey here today we're talking like 10U.

Speaker 1: 5:01

Yeah, I would say 10U down. I mean, in my experience of talking about just starting with Adams for the first time, I'm going to kind of go through my journey a little bit. You've been through the whole thing and again, like I came into Adams after having coached very high levels for quite a bit of time and I'm not going to lie to you, the first season or two I was completely emotionally compromised and it was draining. But that's because I had not matured yet in the role and I'm hoping to be able to share. Here's what I've learned from coaching those levels. That has really, in my opinion, made me a much better emotionally stable person when coaching those levels, because I really do feel like I have a grip on it now. But I'll tell you right now, mike, when I started I had very little patience. I had a lot of anxiety. I mean, my kid was on the ice, which probably didn't help with that anxiety. I think if I was just coaching kids it would have been different. But I've said this before on the show, but I got to say it again I had to really learn how to be patient as a coach, as a parent, and it's not just on the ice. This is what I wanted to say. It's everything from hey, when we get home, you have to empty your bag, you have to dry your equipment, you have to pack your bag, and it was just none of it was happening. I was really upset, constantly saying to myself I really am not enjoying this. And then I remember there was a moment, mike, I kind of hit this wall and I said it's not the kids, it's me. And when I hit that place, things started to change. I'm expecting at the time a six, seven-year-old to kind of know what to do with their bag and I'm probably speaking pretty aggressively. I wasn't even making an environment where it was going to be conducive to learning, it was just a hassle. So what I did was I decided I'm going to change my mentality here. I'm going to be insanely patient. Instead of thinking these kids are going to get something in one practice or two practices, it might take them the entire season and I have to be okay with that from on the ice. In terms of the hockey bag, it's maybe I should help him first or help her first, before I get on them and just find a better way to teach, because at the end of the day, mike. This is the big realization. One is that I play a role in my own emotional state. Again, I went from being emotionally drained to emotionally invested. And then the other big realization is that coaching young kids it's like preschool, kindergarten, first grade. You have to have the same level of patience with these kids that those teachers do, because they're the same age, it's the same thing, it's school for them. And again, once I got there, I really started to change and again now I'm in a position, mike, I'm going to throw it to you that I really am very comfortable now with progress and or lack of progress might be the better word or emotional outbursts from a nine year old, eight year old, seven year old, which is really kind of somewhat normal, and just being patient with all of it. I've gotten myself there. But if you're a new coach or you're the parent of a kid on a team with a new coach, it's hard. It's really really hard. Yeah, I mean like so.

Speaker 2: 8:00

When I was, when I was direct, when I was overseeing the coaching education program for our district the first to first, literally the first two weeks I was in the role the first thing I did was seek out preschool and kindergarten teachers that coach hockey and like that is the key, like it doesn't matter what, it doesn't matter if you know any hockey and, frankly, it doesn't even matter if you know math, science and in English in preschool, in first grade. It really doesn't, it matters. Can you emotionally invest your time in kids and have the patience and the understanding that they're there's? It's impossible for those children to feed off of what you think they should be at six and seven and eight years old. Now, the caveat to this is are there eight year olds that are, that are 15 year olds? Yes, there are kids that are very mature, that are tying their skates at four years old, that are taping their own stick, that are watching game, film. They're just are. I mean, and yeah, that's good, that's great. I think that's great for those families. I guess it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's a, it's a. You know, if that's your child, then hey, you're, you're, you're ahead of the game, I guess, as far as the, you know the amount of pressure you put on yourself as a coach or a parent that your kid needs to aspire to be a pro hockey player. But for 98 percent of the rest of us, a six year old is still playing with Legos. He's still not cleaning their room on a consistent basis.

Speaker 1: 9:42

Barely reading is is, is the?

Speaker 2: 9:44

is the kid that says oh I know you made me dinner the last three hours, but I don't like that, so I would like a dinosaur chicken nugget.

Speaker 1: 9:51

Every boy is nodding with you, Michael and I get it.

Speaker 2: 9:55

I and that's and listen, I was. I was that coach. I was the coach when I was 23 years old, working with kids screaming and yelling. Why don't you get this? These kids got to be the stupidest people I've ever met in my life and like why aren't you listening to me? Well, because you're boring and these drills are hard and I don't understand them. And what the hell are you doing? Like, like and I always resort to it, me. So funny when we're working with new instructors now at the learn the play level and the intro to hockey, and even with older adults, like we do with an adult hockey. Learn the play yeah, always resort and fall to fun. Always Something's not going well. Play tag, absolutely. The kids are a little erratic. Play, keep away. The kids are not listening and they're not engaged. Your drills are boring, they're not fun. So I mean you can engage any seven year old, any seven year old. If you watch and look and educate yourself, you can engage any seven year old. Now I think the conversation kept stemming around and the kind of the call in and discussion was around the emotional, like how do you control that emotion as an adult? Like in, where and where does it go over the line Like are you really that adult that is just losing their mind in an hour? I mean, imagine going like I just can't imagine anymore. I can't imagine going to a 50 minute practice with a bunch of six year olds and dreading it and being like, oh, this is the worst thing I can be doing out here, cause you know who notices that those six year olds?

Speaker 1: 11:43

Well, and the parents and you know what's interesting, mike, and what we both said here, is that there was this moment of realization of it's not them, it's me, right, and I think that that's part of the maturity of a coach, because, look, I would say there's lots of different coach forms and most young, new coaches come in with the attitude of I'm going to revolutionize how this is done and I can teach anybody and we're going to learn and we're, and here's the thing. It's actually a great kind of thing, it's a great thought. Right, you want to do a good job, that's really what you're saying. But it's very hard to relate to a six, seven, eight, nine, 10 year old if you're not going to meet them where they're at. And one of the things you just said, you know, if the kids are not paying attention, you know, look, I think there is some room for hey, listen, depending on the level. When a coach is speaking, you do need to listen. I don't have a problem instructing the kids of hey, listen. We do need to pay attention when coach is talking. But if it's habitual in the sense that kids aren't caring, yeah, no, you need to look at the drills. Are the drills fun? And again, listen. We said younger, this is true, really up the ranks. I mean, even when I was a teenager, I wanted the drills to be fun. They had a higher purpose.

Speaker 2: 12:48

I understood it. Yeah, so the answer to that is right. Are they age appropriate? Right so they can be fun, but are they age appropriate, like I watched? So we just did a program in the Bronx with a bunch of first, second, third graders in Trotahaki and these teachers were on it Like all the kids are yelling, I'm yelling. Everybody listen, everybody's gotta listen. Sit down. And they're like they just do one little like little.

Speaker 1: 13:12

Yep, that's yep.

Speaker 2: 13:13

Like three, two, one boom. All the kids are listening.

Speaker 1: 13:16

So what I do just so you know I love to give actionable items is I will always say if you can hear me, put your hands on your head, put your hands on your head, if you can hear me. Kids understand Simon Says. They always have. In fact, last night we had a game and they were a little rowdy. Before the game I played Simon Says man. They all perked up. I know that game. We can play, simon Says Right. So again to your point. One of the things that I actually sought out and I'd love to share this information right is, I realized pretty quickly in the youth hockey journey I need to start looking at elementary education Education, like I need to speak to teachers and learn how they do this every day and somehow survive that, because that was the missing piece. And look, usa hockey or hockey, canada can only go so far with that aspect. They're not gonna teach you to be an elementary school teacher. It's not really their job, right? So I sought out that extra information. I started talking to my kids' teachers. Hey, what are the methods that you use to get them to pay attention? What are the methods you use when they're not paying attention? And guess what, mike, they were more than happy. They were so shocked that someone even asked Like they were more than happy to say and the funny thing is, you guys have phys ed teacher.

Speaker 2: 14:23

I said would you ever take 20 kids, line them up on the gym, go down to the other side of the gym and yell directions at them about what they need to do in this technical aspect of a skill? And I look at you like what are you crazy? Like half the kids would be beating each other up. The other kids would be hiding under the bleachers. Two kids would have walked outside the back door already and it's just like you know. There's no way to corral those kids. And then I think you know the one concept that certainly USA hockey has been a leader in and around the world. Watching international hockey is like the station-based small environments where you can have a coach be with. Like it's just so much easier to work at five kids than 50. And when you can start pinpointing, no matter what skill level you are, it doesn't matter what skill level you are at with six and seven year olds, it's can you be engaging, emotionally connected, and can you look like, can you put a smile on your face that kids can see and communicate with them, and then it doesn't even have to be in a verbal way it could be. You know, like a physical way, if you're out there, you know poke, check in and move in the mound, like I see a lot of videos and you know this is all context, right you all look like I don't know. I often don't judge people's ability to coach based off a 30 second clip or a 10 second clip. Or you know, some of you will post like, oh, look at this guy, how's the kids doing a circle drill? And I've been guilty of this too Like in the like, just kind of coming into a practice and be like, oh my God, this is what is going on out here. But you know, you don't know the whole context, you don't know. Maybe that guy's out there alone, maybe he thought he usually has five coaches and today he has one. You know, I saw a video the other day of a coach hitting the kid in the shin guards and then kind of rubbing him in the face. And I'm thinking and going, oh my God, this is horrible, how bad could this be? And I'm like Jesus, I do that every day. Like I do that every day Now I don't slash a kid to break his kneecaps, but I'm poking and rubbing my feet. You know, put the kids on the ground and you're. If you're smiling, they're smiling. If you're engaged, they're engaged. If you're playing tag and you know I joke around with the kids all the time like I'm out there, I'm gonna get you. There's no way you're winning this battle. I'm taking that ring get from you and taking that puck from you and they, you know, hopefully they want to compete. It drives the competition out of them. But I think if I was out there telling them to do a drill and they weren't getting it and they weren't listening and they weren't paying attention, and my blood pressure is going up and up and up and up. That's when you have to then say okay, where am I emotionally here and how? Why am I yelling at six year olds? And I? Because I don't. I think if all of us sat in our kids' kindergarten with first-wave classes, I think we would probably report every teacher that would do that to our kids, right? I think if we were in a classroom, if we sat in the classroom and we were able to go on a live bar in classroom edition and sit there and watch kindergarten and first grade class.

Speaker 1: 17:25

The world would implode if we did that.

Speaker 2: 17:27

All day. I can't believe that this teacher is swearing at my kid about not listening Right. I don't know why. I coach high school hockey players right now. The same expectation I have for me and the kids is the same I have for them when they left the classroom 25 minutes ago. Why are you swearing? Why are you f-bombing? Why are you like? Why is this now okay when it wasn't okay two hours ago? I get it. Sport is a lot of latitude in sport. I understand that. I'm not trying to be soft here. We do have an obligation, depending on the age or appropriateness of where you're at with your kids, to be engaged with them in the same learning environment that they have during the day.

Speaker 1: 18:13

I'll say a couple things here. Mike, I wrote some notes while we were talking. I think that when it comes to sport, there's a level of discipline that needs to exist. My philosophy with discipline with younger kids is kind of the break them down to build them up kind of mentality. When I say break them down, I don't mean verbally assault the kid, I'm saying that as the coach, or coaches. Again, there are times you need to listen to your coach's instruction. If you are not listening, I will point you out and I will say excuse me, the coach is speaking or my other coach is speaking. You need to listen. It is not your turn to talk. I have no problem disciplining a kid. I will also always be and I practice what I preach and everybody knows been on the ice with me knows this. I will also be the first one to high five that kid when they do a good job the next time. Or I will say hey, you did a great job listening. That time. You break them down to build them up. That is how I teach them that aspect. I don't think there is anything wrong if it's done. The right way of explaining that type of discipline to your children. Again, it's not, why aren't you listening? You need to listen when the coach is speaking. It's not, again, not verbally assaulting them. I'm saying when a coach speaks, you listen. It's instructive. Then same thing on a drill. If someone's not paying attention on a drill, I'm not going to scream down the ice, I'm going to come over here. We're going to start again, because that's not what I explained. Were you paying attention? Again, I do think and again, this is at any age level If you start quote, unquote soft, I mean you're setting yourself up. You need to start with a certain expectation of. This is kind of how it goes when the coaches speak, you will listen. These are my expectations. Now, with that said, this is kind of the other thing I wrote down. You have to have realistic expectations. It is not realistic for me to think that seven, eight, nine, 10 year olds are going to listen on every word that I say, every practice, at every time. That is absolutely not realistic in any way. I expect to have to do some of this explanation or discipline or whatever word you want to use there. I think that where a lot of coaches run into the emotionally draining side, mike and this is where I want to throw it back to you is they'll come in with this expectation of this season. I want to accomplish these 15 things with this team. They can't skate, pass or shoot. When I'm done with this team, they're going to be the best in the league. You don't know the team yet. You can come in with some expectations, but after five or six practices you have to be willing and again, Mike, this is where a lot of coaches get lost you have to be willing to throw that expectation list in the garbage and say okay, listen, we need to work on skating At the end of the season if these kids can skate somewhat efficiently, and that's it, especially at the younger ages. I'm talking, I've done my job. Again. I'm working with the team right now. We had a coaches meeting and 15 things came up in this coaches meeting. Every one of them a legit thing the team needs to work on. I instructed us. I said listen, we got to break this down to three things that we want to work on over the season. Right now we will start with one of them and when we feel we get proficient enough in that one, then we can move on, because one builds to the next. We can't jump into tactics extreme hockey tactics if they can't pass efficiently or they can't transition efficiently. You got to be willing to raise or lower your expectations to meet those kids where they're at and to have a very clear view of what is it that, from a development standpoint, we need to work on this year. If you can do that, the emotionally draining part of it becomes emotional investment, because now you have really clear, good expectations and goals for the team. You can tell the players that, mike, you can say listen, I want you guys and girls to be great skaters by the end of the season. So we're going to work on that. Mike. Sauce on the puck to you.

Speaker 2: 22:16

Well. So again, I think I fall on the words of where, okay, if you're working, if you're working with a certain age group and let's go back to this age appropriate age group. I think actually in the clip these are like and some of the conversations are around like, these are five, six, seven-year-old kids. These weren't high school, like. I have certain rules, right, whistle blows or drill ends and we're going in, or it's a non-shooting drill. You're not shooting, like if the whistle blows and we're calling everyone in and we're transitioning to the next activity. You're not ripping pucks off the back of my head, it's just an expectation. If you do, there's a discipline there and I had that at every level, right? So now am I worrying about a five-year-old hitting me? No, but I'm worrying about an 18-year-old hitting me Like I don't want you know. Or everybody relaxes, the whistle blows and also this guy wants to wheel around and take a puck off the post. So little things like that. Right, it depends on the age. But if we're talking about coaches that get emotionally crazy, emotionally invested or overzealous about certain aspects of where they're at, teaching a lot of us because you're trying to teach, I mean you're trying to do stuff that for most of the kids in your team, concepts that they don't need to understand, want to understand, or even benefits them from understanding. If you can find ways to play, play, play, just be in an area you know. Again, if you need technical pieces of stick handling and block drills and you know tactical stuff, that's fine. In my opinion, after Jesus, you know like 35, 40 years of doing this consistently.

Speaker 1: 23:58

You don't have to count it out on the air, I just don't think it's.

Speaker 2: 24:01

I just don't think it benefits the six-year-old. I really don't. I think there's like when I watch coaches do flow drill breakouts with seven-year-olds and eight-year-olds and mites, it is absolutely now can they do it? And do some of the kids look like they can do it, they can do something, like they're out there, but they're robotic, like if you're yelling at a kid for not taking the puck behind the net, hitting the winger, and then the winger hits the center and it's cutting across the top of the you know circle. I see it every day. I walk into rinks every day and I'm looking like why, why do people accept this Like? Why do people want a seven-year-old to look like an 18-year-old? And why do the coaches? Why do they get so emotionally crazy about them? They're not being able to teach that and what it tells me is they just don't know, they're just not educated to know that they can't teach it Right, that it's just not in the, it's not in the lexicon of what they should be teaching those eight-year-olds.

Speaker 1: 24:57

You know one of the I'll get pushed back.

Speaker 2: 24:59

I'll get pushed back from the AAA. Elite coaches, I get it, but you're dealing with very, very few people, kids, and even at the elite level, with those few kids there's very few of those kids that are getting it.

Speaker 1: 25:13

To get to the elite level. A lot of things have to happen for a player to get that good Right.

Speaker 2: 25:18

Well, I'm saying elite too at seven-year-olds. So that's-.

Speaker 1: 25:20

Oh, you're making the sure catch. Look, here's the deal. Everybody advances differently. Like hockey players are like kids who read or do math. Everybody develops a little bit differently. You're gonna some people. I have seen athletes become 15 or 16, and you never would have given them a look. And then suddenly they are the best player on the ice by far, because they're great athletes. But, mike, I want to rewind back. You know, one of the most eye-opening moments for me, probably about 10 years ago, was I remember I was in a coaching clinic for younger kids. It was kind of one of the first times I ever had to do that and I was asked to describe a stride like a hockey stride, mechanically, and I had a really hard time with it because I've never had to do it. I could always just skate. You know, I was always coaching older people, the older people, you know, older players that knew how to skate. And suddenly I'm being asked mechanically, from the core to the hip, to the knee, to the ankle, to the placement, to the dry. I mean things I had never thought about before and I'm realizing in this moment like wow, I don't know how to teach someone how to skate. I mean, I do, but I don't you know what I mean, and-.

Speaker 2: 26:24

I can show them, but I can't put it on a whiteboard and say, listen, this is what I need to do.

Speaker 1: 26:28

Right, and it's you know. That was another eye-opening moment for me of just hey, you don't know everything, right, you can always be learning. And it's like you're saying, with the breakout of, you're teaching them something before you know there's 10 steps before the breakout. Now I also understand at the really young ages it's like you know, if we can get the breakout down, we can get goals. And we can get goals we can win games. Well, I mean, look first off in Mike, they don't keep score most of the time. You know, by the time you get the score, you know that's a good skill set to start learning. But if they don't understand the purpose or the skill sets behind it, you know what ends up happening. Defense rings around the boards, winger misses it goes to the defenseman on the other team. They shoot the puck, defense gets, it rings around, it becomes cyclical, right when there's a lot of like you know. Again, personally, I think possession is an important skill to understand of don't just play ping pong with the puck, let's build some confidence in our players of holding onto the puck and having someone earn the puck from them. And I always tell my players look, I tell adult league players this if you have the puck and there's no pass, don't just throw it away. And if you have the puck and a player comes to you and takes it from you, they've earned the puck. I'd rather they earn it beating you than you just throw it to the other team. Now that is to me, along with skating and stick handling and passing, a valuable lesson for a young kid. If you don't have to throw it away right away, you do need to look for your teammates, but you don't have to throw it away right. So little things like that, just keeping the conversation on course here, michael, another thing I want to bring about, just with emotional draining, there's some advice I got as a high school player that I think applies heavily equally to coaches and parents, for that matter. And I remember I was being driven to a game by one of my coaches and I was having just a hard time. It was high school, it was having a hard day, whatever life was happening. And he said to me you know, when you walk in this rink, you leave all that outside. You have to leave all of it outside. You're here to play hockey, play hockey. This is your place of peace. And you know, honestly, to that point. No one had really told me that, and we talk a lot on this show about being present, right, it's the same thing as a coach. This is what the kids don't understand. And, by the way, the kids don't care If you had a hard day at work or you had an argument with your spouse, or you had horrible, horrible traffic on the way over or the weather is bad. A kids, they don't care, nor should they care. It's not their job to care about that. Their kids, their kids. B. You got to leave all of it outside the rink. When you walk into that rink, it should be a fresh place for you. You have to leave the day outside, and here's the reason why you deserve that as a human, and the kids, most importantly, deserve that too. When you walk into that rink, all of the stresses in your life I know it's not as easy as it sounds you got to leave it outside the door because when you walk in that rink, you're a coach. Now, I mean, you're a coach all the time, but you know what I mean, right, so it can be a place of peace for you too. But I think if you walk in there with the, I had a horrible day to now. I got to coach these kids. You are just completely setting yourself up for disappointment Right now. I got to say this too. At the same time, parents that don't coach. Remember coaches have had a hard day. Sometimes you don't know what they're coming from. You don't know that here's a good one If you hit traffic, get your kid to practice. It's a good chance. The coach did too right and, trust me, none of us want to show up 10 minutes before practice fumbling around with the game plan or the practice plan. You got to remember that the coaches have lives too, and I know how many of you do. To be fair, mike, many parents often ask how are you doing? Is everything okay? I mean, I'm not saying that everybody's rude, but if you see the coach on the ice has had a bad day. It may be had a bad day. Maybe she had a bad day. All right, we're human, right? So we all have to exercise some patience with that. To a point, right? Someone's out of line. They're out of line, but go ahead, mike.

Speaker 2: 30:15

Yeah, I mean, I think that's why you got to be careful about when you're at the youth level. Right, everybody's driving, you're driving, they're driving their kids they have hard, fast rules of you know you have to be there an hour before a game and then you show up five minutes before the game and you're late. Like, how do you discipline yourself? Like you know, it's just there's all kinds of you know there's all kind of pitfalls at the Utah-key level that everybody likes to look like they're coaching in the NHL. But you know there's a lot of other aspects and you know, listen, I was at a college hockey game just a couple of weeks ago. I think. The bus was late and they had to move the game an hour. College hockey game division, one college hockey game, you know. So they just had to wait and say listen, things happen. You know accidents happen and things break down and you know travel's not the same. Something you know this is, you know not, these guys aren't making millions of dollars. Yeah, so I mean. But again, it comes down to you know, understanding. If you're a coach at the youth level and you're tasked to work with all these little six, seven-year-olds, you know, I don't know. I just went. When I hear like somebody having emotional difficulty coaching at an age number one, I feel terrible for them because they're just not maybe equipped to coach at that level or their expectation. They're just uneducated about what that level consists of and really and really what they should expect from that level. And I think that's where you know. I think that all governing bodies need to do a better job of teaching the psychology of coaches that work with adolescents. I agree with you, mate, and the adolescent piece changes, like an eight-year-old is so different than a 12-year-old.

Speaker 1: 31:53

Yeah, we don't do enough. I'm not trying to. We don't do enough from an educational standpoint to prepare coaches for that. We do a great job of skill development, like explaining what drills you can do. We do a great job of like safe sport, like what you can't do, but we don't do a great job of teaching like here's how to deal with an eight-year-old.

Speaker 2: 32:11

Yeah, it's funny because the drills are the least important thing that we need to know. They really are For a seven-year-old it's the least important thing you need to know.

Speaker 1: 32:20

What am I paying for, mate? What am I paying for as a parent Right?

Speaker 2: 32:25

you're paying for that coach to get out there and hopefully your kid plays next year.

Speaker 1: 32:27

I would say sweaty heads, go to bed.

Speaker 2: 32:30

All right, just being like. I love that engagement. I like the coach that, listen, I'm. You know, my kids have been with a lot of coaches that I don't agree with, like philosophically, like like or looking like oh my God, this guy, what's he doing out here? But you know what, they come off the ice and they love it. Like I don't know, the guy was so happy and he's really having fun and he's goofy and I'm like listen, that's great, you want to come back? Yeah, I love it. Okay, great, let's come back. I mean, you know, so I got to. You know you got to. You know I'm not, but again, I probably don't. I sit with other parents, you know, around the rink and they're all like, oh my God, they got to work on this. They're. How come? You know? You know, loser losers work on loser things. This is what I'm. Like there's seven, even 10. Like, okay, if your kid's not an elite athlete at 10, then maybe they're just having fun, they just want to have hockey. And if you're in that same group, like if you're sitting next to me, then your kid isn't elite. Or you know, if you're sitting in that group, that your kid's not the best player in the country right now, then they aren't the best player in the country and make sure they're having fun. They love the sport and I always, I always. I come from it from a from a grow the game loving hockey perspective, like you don't have to. Your ability to play at a high level has nothing to do with your love for the game and your ability to coach at a high level has nothing to do with your love for hockey. If you love hockey and you love working with kids and teaching them the sport, what that level looks like is irrelevant to me as a parent Like I don't need you to have played division one college hockey and aspire to be a pro coach. I need you to be. I need you to be invested in making sure that the hour you're on the ice with my kid is safe, fun and I'll throw the word developmental out there, but I think they just develop by having fun. If they're out and having fun and they're moving and they're touching bucks, they're getting, they're developing.

Speaker 1: 34:21

Well, I'm going to say this again I think that the best skating instruction my son and daughter ever got was chasing each other in a public session without me on the ice. I'll maintain that.

Speaker 2: 34:31

Tag tag is the best yeah.

Speaker 1: 34:32

I'm watching them, like I'm watching that they're doing things that they don't even realize they're doing. They're skating backwards, skating forward, they're going down, they're going up, they're gritting on the ice. Which is balance. Kids self teach a lot. I'm not. I'm going to echo what you said. I'm not saying instruction is not important, but I mean, every statistic shows that instruction within a fun environment is more powerful than just instruction. Cause here's the thing and parents need to hear this too we can instruct your kids completely Like we can make. It no fun, full instruction, and you might think that, okay, well, they'll develop. They're just doing what we're telling them to do now. They're not learning anything, they're just doing whatever coach says, because that's what coach said to do. Just mimicking the skill, and that's not learning, the why behind the skill, like telling a kid if you can become a great skater, you can become a great shooter and a great passer and a great teammate the why behind becoming a great passer. I'm about to do a clinic here in a few weeks, a Playmakers clinic and I'm realizing, Mike, there's not too many Playmakers clinic out there and the whole clinic is going to be based on passing the puck. And you know where we're starting this clinic. It's not on passing, it's. Let me tell you why passing is important. Let me tell you how to catch a pass properly and why that matters when you're making a pass or taking a pass, or giving a pass or receiving a pass. You know I'm going to make it fun. I'm going to make passing fun. I always loved being a Playmaker, but I want to make the kids to feel that too, right? So, like you're saying, it has to be fun. My friends, if it's not fun for you as the coach, then not every practice is going to be perfect. It's not going to be fun for the kids If it's not fun for you, right? You know, mike, another one of my coaching evolution. And again, look, this is just me, there's no judgment on anyone really with what I'm about to say. But I remember when I started coaching I used to wear, you know, the track suits of some of the teams I've coached, mainly because it's what I had. I wasn't necessarily trying to show off or anything like that, but I kept doing this and I remember like one time I didn't have my track suit and I was like why don't you just wear a hoodie and like pants? Like why am I going out of my way to find this coaches? And now I just I kind of go out in my hoodie and, like you know, athletic pants. I'm like what do I care what I look? Nobody cares what I look like. Right Now again, anyone who wears a track suit nothing wrong with that, wear whatever makes you comfortable. But I'm saying is like this is me kind of shedding the layers, of like I don't need to look a certain way to coach these kids. I don't need to look like a coach. I think in my hoodie and my athletic pants it's like I'm almost on their level, right, and I want them to understand this. I want to have fun with you and the drills can be fun. If you listen and pay attention and you understand why we're doing them. We'll make these drills fun. The reiterate is every practice perfect? No, do kids need to be disciplined at times? A thousand percent right. Are there times you need to stop a practice because it's going so bad? Yes, but it all starts from a place of love, as Mike said, a place of fun and the understanding that life is emotionally draining, not just hockey, and you got to prepare yourself for that.

Speaker 2: 37:30

Right. So a couple of things there. If your practice is not going well, I would almost give you a 90% chance that you probably didn't plan practice, oh, 100%.

Speaker 1: 37:42

I'd say it's 100% chance.

Speaker 2: 37:44

So if you're practicing going well, it's because you're probably winging it and you had no plan, you had no support and you really didn't. You're trying to do drills that you're incapable of doing because you didn't even know how many kids you were going to have or how many coats you were going to have or where your ice was going to be. So that's the number one thing. Number two is I think there needs to be the adage of kids don't care how much you know until they know how much you care. That's that, joe. Is it Joe Eastman? Or who came up with that? The football guy, right? That's such a true statement. They don't care. I've watched coaches, I've watched veteran coaches sit there in a mic practice saying do you know that in 1987, I coach for all Americans? Do you know who I am when I and the kids are looking at me, I don't even know where I am right now.

Speaker 1: 38:32

Like I don't even know what you're talking about?

Speaker 2: 38:34

What's it all American? I just, I just like I don't care what you did, it doesn't matter who you know, it doesn't matter where you played, it matters. What are you doing for me, mr Mr Benelli? Hey, coach, so-and-so Like, what are you doing for me right now? Oh, what am I doing for you right now? I'm chasing around because you're smiling and having fun and laughing and giggling, and I think that you know, and if you have a, if you have a plan that's not working, then the plan needs to be just to have, go and have fun.

Speaker 1: 39:05

Mike, I got a great metaphor for you to support your point right. So I've done mites on ice many times and when you do mites on ice in Philadelphia, bob the Hound Kelly, stanley Cup winner, champion, hall of Fame player for the Flyers always comes in the locker room. He's a gentleman. He always says hi to all the kids. You know none of the kids really know who he is and all the dads and moms are like that's Bob Kelly, it's the Hound from the you know 74 Flyers. And then Gritty will come by and the kids you know they respond to Gritty for obvious reasons. Now, those of you listening, think about your reaction to this. Of course they love Gritty. Gritty's fun and crazy and plays hockey and Gritty's going to go on the ice for them, for the mites on ice. This has nothing to do with Bob Kelly, right? But they don't care who he is. They don't care that I told them who he is because Gritty's here. So I guess what I'm trying to say, mike, is we should all be Gritty. No, a lot of people don't want to do that. What?

Speaker 2: 40:04

I'm saying is that that's just. It's just a character that kids like. Like I do a lot of lacrosse clinics and hockey clinics that when we went out and purchased, you know we do. We do Marvel days, right. So everyone, every now and then the kids pop out and get all my junior guys show up in their Marvel. You know Captain America and the Hulk and Batman, superman I don't know if there's all technically Marvel but whatever they are absolutely not technically all Marvel. Okay, so I call it Marvel days, so I probably get a lot of critiques. You say comic book day, yeah, comic book day. I probably get like that's not Marvel. How can he blast with me? Half of them were. How can he?

Speaker 1: 40:37

say that, yeah, I know, this is a whole segment of the audience.

Speaker 2: 40:40

It's when the Hulk is with Batman, like maybe it's not the same.

Speaker 1: 40:44

That would never happen.

Speaker 2: 40:45

Yeah, but they're on the same ice together and and they're and the kids literally could care. I could have so in lacrosse, right, we had two all American lacrosse guys out there working with our kids one time doing some face offs and stick handling or, you know, cradling and things like that. And then from behind the trees, the, the superheroes came out. They could care less. They didn't. First of all, they didn't even care before Gone that they were there and these kids could have showed them anything and they would, and they would have engaged and done it. Whether it's wrong or right, it didn't matter Right, for an hour I couldn't get kids to leave. And I had like we were paying these other guys like a lot of money to be there instructing all these nine year olds and they're like whatever man you know, I don't even know what you're talking about. It's fun Kids know fun. And I do it in hockey all the time. Now it's not every day, like just everyone said. Well, boom, the you know Superman shows up on the ice and all of a sudden, chasing Superman around becomes so much more energized and energetic and you know, then we go back to, you know the subject matter here, right, and that's what what the emotional, you know content of my you know how I feel and practice, and like emotionally, like that would have a long time ago give me a lot of anxiety, cause I would have like, oh my God, we have like a half hour. Like I, these kids are all running around like crazy people and I'm trying to get, I'm trying to get them to learn how to break out of the zone.

Speaker 1: 42:09

Right.

Speaker 2: 42:10

And they're like well, you know you're talking about coach, like I don't care about breaking out of zone. I care about, but you know how I'm going to break out of zone. I'm going to chase Superman out of this and I think it's just and when, when I see and I guess my the the short answer to the caller or you know anybody chiming in on the emotional investment of a coach is don't be, you, don't need to be. There is no emotional attachment, there isn't. It's. It's like, if you're having anxiety about coaching children, then you, you're the problem, not the kids, not the circumstances, not the league you're in, not the level you're coaching. It's the, it's the fact that you're taking this way too seriously and you're you know I'd be more worried about. Wow, are my kids like, are those kids eating right? And like? I'm more invested in. Like am I going to send that kid home with his dad who's been up at the bar for the whole two hours of practice? Like? That's where I get emotional. Like I'm, like I'm, I'm more like, oh geez, like like I just want to make sure the kids had fun and had a ball and not think about whether or not I taught them the one, two, two for the last hour.

Speaker 1: 43:21

Well, and I want to reiterate too that again we're kind of alluding this to the younger levels this is absolutely true. At the higher levels too, mike. I mean, again, there's a little more expectation on the outcome practice. But even if you're working tactics, it's not always the most fun thing in the world, but the practices. A team having fun at 18 years old is a team that's winning Right. And again, look, look. I always said this too, because I always inevitably get a parent coming up to me and say, hey, look, I listened to the show. You know, I know it's got to be fun. But what about being competitive? Well, I agree with you, being competitive can be fun, but you got to teach them how to compete. We had a whole episode about that too, right, like, like, competitiveness can be taught and it can be fun. You know how to teach competitiveness. Small area games, right.

Speaker 2: 44:07

You want to contact me? Right now I run a learn the play program for the New York Rangers.

Speaker 1: 44:13

And is that a good team? The New York Rangers.

Speaker 2: 44:15

Are they the learn a little little Rangers but I follow the New York Rangers.

Speaker 1: 44:18

I do follow the New York Rangers Like I should know who they are.

Speaker 2: 44:21

I had to introduce a Ranger the other day. That's a whole other podcast, but I didn't know the person's name and I'm like, and now a member of the New York Rangers is here, like, look at me like you don't know, mike, you don't know. You know who I am? I'm like, listen, I'm doing with eight year olds every day. I said I have no time to watch NHL, so so the, so the. The premise here, right, is that we run a high performance training environment sixth station high performance training environment with kids that have no business being in a high performance training environment because they're not high performance players. But we run it the same as I would with you. If you have the best 12 you team in the country right now, I will share this practice plan with you and your kids will learn more, have more fun, be more engaged and it will benefit them at a high performance level. It's just. It's just what you insert into that. The sixth stations are all fun, they're all battle drills, they're all competitive. There's a winner and a loser. You can do it, it doesn't. You know. To your. You know your point is exactly. The point I try to make all the time is that my ability not to be crazily emotionally involved in wins and losses and over the top about what kids are learning has nothing to do with the competitive nature of where I want the kids to be Right. Two kids that can hardly even skate can compete against each other and they can win and they can lose. Like I can. We can teach that there's a, that there is meaning between losing a battle Like there's a, there's a. But I want to teach you to want to win that back Right. There's a way to teach that and. I think you can do it without you know, beating the health out of yourself emotionally, that you're not teaching that because inherently, kids want to compete. You put kids listen you see it all the time right. I mean, you put kids in two different environments. You put a kid in an environment where they could win a prize and they try harder, Right, and the ones that don't and I say this in sport a lot the kids that don't try harder won't and they won't. They just won't be that kid. They're not going to be the kid that's going to be your Stanley.

Speaker 1: 46:32

Cup winner, and that's okay.

Speaker 2: 46:35

We can only aspire to who we're going to be. Yeah, I can't make you be a competitive kid if you're not.

Speaker 1: 46:42

Yeah, Wayne Gretzky said that too, you know. A woman came up to him and said you know, can you tell me what he? did and he said no, I can't either one, two or you don't. And look, here's the other thing, with some of the anxiety or the emotional draining. If that's not your kid yet, that's okay, it's okay I don't know how else to say it. It's okay. Right, the kid will learn to do that. When they learn to do that, you can inspire them. The best way to do it is to show it through action. But if you're nine year old isn't super competitive yet you got to be, you got to meet them where they're at.

Speaker 2: 47:11

You can't, they may never be yeah, and.

Speaker 1: 47:13

I'm saying that's okay, that's okay, it's not for everybody.

Speaker 2: 47:17

But it is. That is a. That is anxiety for broken it is. It is emotionally. If you're a like, if you come from that loin of of of being an ultra competitor, sure, but that's hard to watch a child not be.

Speaker 1: 47:30

Well, and Mike, that's what I'm saying Like my I'm going to say it my children, although they have a lot of anxiety, they're not going to be that kid. They're not going to be that kid. Although they have many aspects of me and my wife, they are not me and they're not my wife. Right, if they choose to go a different path, that's fine too. I think the acceptance of that and the understanding of that and making sure that you're not kind of kind of, you know, reflecting on them too much in that way. If I was competitive, no, they might not be. You know, it's funny, mike. Every time I feel like I take a step back from my kids. They, they, they advance in those ways that I've been wanting them to. Some days they need someone else to tell them Right, can't always be you.

Speaker 2: 48:05

They find the path. I think you know that goes back to the original conversation about. You know the whole emotional investment in kids is as you forget what was the emotional investment your coach had of you when you were a kid and not many of us had the screamer and the yellow and the guy beating you up and beating you down at six. We just don't remember. Yeah, like somewhere somewhere we were inspired to continue to play Right, where we found the reason to go to the rank. Well, you had a love for it, right, yeah, but that wasn't from guys beating you up?

Speaker 1: 48:36

No, that definitely not. I mean, there were times I remember when I got older I wanted to be pushed, but it wasn't a negative thing, it was, it was very positive, right? Or if I, if I didn't do something right, a great coach would know how to challenge me in a way that I would respond to. I'll be honest with you, the bad coaches didn't. They didn't know how to, how to speak to me, or other players for that matter. Look, let's just end the show on this. If you feel like you're emotionally drained which is probably a lot, a lot of people listening Right, I'm emotionally drained right now. That's why we do the show. Look, the first thing you got to do is, you know, first step of any solving any problem is admitting there is a problem. Right is say to yourself okay, I am emotionally drained, I am. I get a lot of anxiety from practice. I get in a. You know, I don't want to be there or whatever. I have negative feelings towards hockey and coaching. I acknowledge those feelings, all right, that's the first step. Don't live in it, because you're just going to keep getting worse or drowning. Once you've acknowledged those feelings, do an audit of yourself first, not the kids or the parents or the situation. Okay, what do you need to change as a coach to change our practices being run? It might take one snap of the fingers practice. It might take five practices, it might take a whole season, but what do you need to change about the way you're approaching practice? Is a preparedness? Is it the drills? Is it the way your face looks on the ice? Is it how you're speaking to the kids? Do an audit of that. Okay, probably not doing everything wrong. Might not be doing anything wrong. Just do an audit of that. Then three is the implementation. Come to practice with a new, a new, a new emotional state. I hate saying this, but I'm going to say it. You know, relax, just relax, all right. Again, if you're coaching you talky, relax All right. It is never as intense as you'd like it to be. Don't worry about what. Are the parents going to think of my drills? You need to be worried about what you think of your drills. You need to be able to leave the practice. I'm like this is my, this is my bar. I want to leave the practice knowing, hey, I did a great job for those kids today, and if a parent comes up to me and says why didn't you work on this? Sure, let I mean hopefully it's 24 hours later but we can have that discussion but I want to leave knowing I did a great job today. I don't ever want to leave thinking I hope I made the parents happy today with the drills, that we did. No offense parents, all right, that's, that's I. If I'm selected for the coaching role, it's my job to do that, and I also equally want the kids to leave thinking man, I had such fun at practice today, like they're on the same level to me, probably kids a little higher, all right. But I'm going to say it again just relax, you're doing great, you're doing a great job. All right, I'm telling you right now, any coach listening to this I really mean this If you're volunteering your time, thank you, I appreciate you. I really really do Referees the same thing. Most of you right, relax, you're doing good. Just take it a day at a time. Make the rink a place that you want to be. Make the rink a place to be happy. I don't care if your kids can't skate or you have a AAA might team which shouldn't exist. All right, I don't care where you are on that scale. Thank you for coaching. You're doing a great job. Parents parents, for the most part, not every coach deserves to hear that. All right, when's the last time you told your coach I really appreciate you teaching the kids, even if it's in text form, some of you do. I get that all the time. I get great parents that let us know. Thank you, coaches. It goes so much farther than you think for the man or woman coming there to teach your kids. All right, and look if you think they're doing a horrible job. You don't have to do that. Okay, but just think about it. Relax. There is no game or tournament under 15 years old. I can make an argument for above it too. That is going to make or break your kids. Quote-unquote career there's not one. I don't care if it is a showcase in front of NHL coaches. It won't matter if the kid does not love the game. It isn't enjoying the game and Finds a love for the game, it won't matter. Relax, I appreciate you. You should too, mike. I'll give you the last word before I close it out.

Speaker 2: 52:45

Listen, I'm just. These coaches are putting their time in. If you're, if you're, if you think the coach stinks, they don't know what they're doing, the wait the end of the year and leave the coach. You signed up, yeah, you, if you followed the podcast for the last three years, you did your research. You found out what team you're going on, you found out who the coach was, found out what that coach is like. I guarantee you, 98.99% of the coaches that are doing this aren't doing it to hurt your kid. They're not doing it because they don't like doing it. They don't. They're not doing it because they think that they're gonna. You know they're gonna, they're gonna. They want to get a letter from you at the end of the year saying what a horrible person you are. They're not doing that. They're not. They're not sound. How they go into it? Are they a good coach? They're, who cares? They are what they are, they, they, they're. They're giving their time to come to your practice and your games 26 weeks of the year, giving up their life to come do this. You know, you know, appreciate. It is an understatement. You need to just accept the fact that this is the coach you're with and then teach your kids and the other parents that are in the stands with you how to deal with that and then you change it. I I don't. I think in all I Rarely have seen a coach get dismissed Midway through a season. I mean, it's happened every now and then, but for winning and losing, no, no, I Mean, come on, this is not the NHL, it's not call. Even in college. You don't see it like they just stick it out somehow, like they like okay, we got to make it work. You know, let's just keep making it work and let's just as a teaching you know I need anybody I advise or talk to. I'm like listen, let's use this as a teaching tool. What can you supplement outside of what you don't think you're getting? And then you can, and then in March you really evaluate what you've done. But in overall, the, the, the anxiety here is mostly, you know, I think, what we're talking about a coach having anxiety. Sit back, have fun, appreciate the parents that appreciate you, wipe out the parents that don't, because I guarantee it's not. Like you know, everybody says I go, who's everybody, who's everybody?

Speaker 1: 54:46

Tell me exactly who, everybody, everyone says, mike, your defense, coaching is bad, right.

Speaker 2: 54:51

Who's everybody? Well, the other two, the other two guys, I, I, I have, I go to the country club with, okay, good, those two guys. Who anybody else? Well, I heard that some, none. Who who is specifically? They can't come up with the answer there is no sounds like the news media. There's no everybody there's. Yeah, there's no everybody. Tell me specifically who's upset with me? Nobody. Okay, let's move on. Let's move on from there. So I think I need the end of day. It's. It's never as bad as you probably think it is. It's probably better than you think it is, because most people don't go out of their way to tell you how great it is. They just accept that it's great. And you know I got. You know my kids hate. You know I'm like. I'm like every single practice. I'm like turn around go say Thank you oh yeah, I forgot like like and I've seen it's funny, like at the midget level, now at 16 you level, I can't remember a time that I've been out getting off the ice where every player hasn't come and fist bump me after practice, like it doesn't happen anymore, like these kids. Just they know, like, okay, I now and now I'm at the age where I'm going to appreciate this like I'm getting this great Opportunity. I'm gonna go show that coach that I appreciate that opportunity. Yeah, right, so that's kind of the pendulum of knowing like. And then and you know, the funny thing is like for me, I noticed the kids that don't do it, that don't care, they don't even care about being out there. I'm like, okay, well, that kid's not getting the, he ain't getting a recommendation from me. I mean, I like him, I think he's a great person. I'm like, yeah, you know anything for me, like he doesn't do anything that I would go out of my way to help that player. They go, my god, I got to help you. But you know what? The kid that fist bumps me, that picks up pox, that says thank you, you know, not even gifts. The gift is the appreciation, the gift is wow, thanks for being out here tonight at 11 30 at night coaching my kid and me like that's the gift.

Speaker 1: 56:35

So I'll say this to Mike it's a trained behavior in the sense of this. He goes beyond hockey, like if someone gave you the best hamburger you've ever had in your life. You might say this is the best burger I've ever had in my life. But would you tell the chef, would you go out of your way to find that chef at the restaurant, say, listen, I just want you to know this is the best hamburger I've ever had in my life. I, I want to be the person that would do that.

Speaker 2: 56:56

I start doing that now I go get my haircut. I'm like I got to tell this guy how great it was. I mean, I mean I put my hat on again. But I think it's like. I'm like nobody tells anybody anything good.

Speaker 1: 57:06

It's always how bad it is there's a lot of good out there. I'm gonna say this, and this is an exercise I've had people do if you count the micro moments of positivity and negativity day again, positivity would be like someone holding the door for you saying Thank you, and negative like someone cut you off in traffic. Most days not all days most days the positives outweigh the negatives. We just not trained to look for that and I I made a decision years ago, mike I want to be a person that that brings positivity into people's lives. Right, I will tell people thank you. If I had a great meal, I tell the waiter I try and find it. Hey, it was really great. Now, I haven't had a hair cut in years, mike. I'm bald, but I can appreciate a good hair. I know so many, many years that I did get haircut. No, my point is this if you see something you like, tell the person if you can. You might make their year, and we don't. You're right, mike, we don't do it enough.

Speaker 2: 57:56

So I actually feel uncomfortable in parents, like that was the best practice I've ever been at. I'm like really, I mean you must have been at some really bad practice, but I think you know, but I love, I mean I do it. I'm almost like it's so far and but it shouldn't be, shouldn't be, no, but what and look, I'll close the episode helps my. It helps my practice anxiety for sure.

Speaker 1: 58:16

You're emotional investment. I think that's what we wanted to change it to, that the show is more from emotional anxiety to emotionally draining, to emotional investment. But you know, I'm like I just realized this like while we're talking, just to close this out. You know, a lot of the advice that we share, a lot of the thoughts we have, is really almost me talking to a younger version of myself, right, like I feel like it's like okay, if I could sit down with myself 15 years ago, yeah, what would I say? You know, it's like I said really, hey, lee, relax, like I would have taught myself that and I really hope that and I watch, I don't hope. I know From your feedback everybody listening that you know we're helping people out there. That really is the purpose of the show. To close it out, want to thank all you once again. Not only does our audience grow daily, not only do we get great topics of discussion from you, but we have maintained a top 10 Podcast in hockey here for a bit, which we're up against some pretty large hockey Titans on the charts with that. So it's pretty amazing to me that you guys believe in us enough To keep listening, to keep going the show, to share the show. I get a lot of people, mike, saying, hey, share this with my whole organization. And I want to practice what we're preaching, mike, and Just say to all of you Thank you, thank you for believing in us and what we're doing and, more importantly, having these conversations. Mike and I are just two people and Christie here it's three, but there's there's hundreds, thousands of people that registered, play hockey and coach hockey, and You're having these conversations because, at the end of the day, you want to reduce some of this anxiety. Remember, you're probably not crazy, but you do exist in a crazy culture. That's why it feels crazy a ton, but you're not crazy. So I want to close it out with that, mike, unless you got anything else.

Speaker 2: 59:59

I love it. No, I'm good, I'm good, I gotta do a practice plan right now. So I think, everybody for practice tonight I'm gonna steal that practice plan you offered before.

Speaker 1: 1:00:06

I would like to see that, as we always shares things like that. But everybody, thank you so much for listening in this edition of our kids play hockey again, share this episode. Five star reviews are always appreciated on Spotify or Apple podcast or Google. Wherever you listen, and make sure, remember we have a huge library now, a podcast that you can look at and share on our kids play hockey, com. But, above all, remember to enjoy the game, remember to relax, remember to be emotionally invested. You can check out all of that in the 200 episodes that we've done here at our kids play hockey. Have a great day. We hope you enjoyed this edition of our kids play hockey. Make sure to like and subscribe right now if you found value. Wherever you're listening whether it's a podcast network, a social media network or our website, our kids play hockey comm. Also, make sure to check out our children's book when hockey stops at when hockey stops, com. It's a book that helps children deal with adversity in the game and in life. We're very proud of it. But thanks so much for listening to this edition of our kids play hockey and we'll see you on the next episode. You.