Our guest in episode #163 is Robert Christophor Coppes; he is a scientist who has studied NDEs for decades and is also the author of“Impressions of Near-Death Experiences” which features hundreds of quotes from the experiencers themselves. What we observed:
For more info: https://www.bobcoppes.com/
@bobcoppes
Music by Black Box Traders
Our guest in episode #163 is Robert Christophor Coppes; he is a scientist who has studied NDEs for decades and is also the author of“Impressions of Near-Death Experiences” which features hundreds of quotes from the experiencers themselves. What we observed:
For more info: https://www.bobcoppes.com/
@bobcoppes
Music by Black Box Traders
Johnny Burke: Welcome to Closer to Venus. I'm Johnny Burke, and today's guest is Robert Christopher Coppes. He is a scientist who has studied near-death experiences for decades and is also the author of Impressions of Near-Death Experiences, which features hundreds of quotes from the experiences themselves, which is what we'll be talking about today. Bob, welcome to the program.
Bob Coppes: Thank you for having me. It is wonderful to be with you.
Johnny Burke: Excellent. Now, how did you find yourself on this path? Studying near death experiences or NDEs? as many call them.
Bob Coppes: Okay. I was raised Catholic, Roman Catholic, and that was with Hell and Purgatory, and I never liked those stories and I, I felt that it's not the right way. it was not correct. So something like that inside myself. Then I read the book from Raymond Moody., I was somewhere in my twenties. And in the book, there was a woman telling about her NDE. And in her NDE, she had a life review. In the Life Review, she said, I was not judged a bit. There was no judgment. And it was perfectly well what I did, even the bad things that I did. So, and then I thought this is correct, and that's where , it attracted my attention and that's , what it started it all.
Johnny Burke: I couldn't agree more. I thought the same thing. I also was raised as a Catholic in the Northeast, and I thought everyone went to church and went to CCD after school. And when I, when we were presented with the idea of heaven and hell. It was much more like a fear-based thing than even as kids that we thought it would be. And we would talk amongst ourselves, like, do we really go to hell if we are bad? it didn't make any sense at all. in your research, because you've interviewed quite a few of the experiencers, as we call them. Can anyone have an NDE or is it limited to certain types? What did you find?
Bob Coppes: Well, what I found is that anyone can have an NDE ;it doesn't matter who you are. All sorts of people from all kinds of walks of life. You find them in any country, in any religion, women, men, rich, poor. Any color, you name them, black, white, yellow, red, green. There are examples for every sort of person on earth that has an NDE. There have been so many NDEs. I think about four or 5% of the people I've had such, experience. So that is a lot. It's millions in the United States.
Johnny Burke: It is millions. I too started reading about near death experiences, when I was in my twenties, I actually looked up the number of documented cases by IANDS, I think, which I'm sure you're very familiar with. And even back then, it was here in the States, the number of cases was almost a million. It's 900,000 something. And I thought that was pretty staggering.
Bob Coppes: I think it is more, it's much more,
Johnny Burke: Well, it's much more now, but this is30 years ago.
Bob Coppes: Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Johnny Burke: So there's been quite a few. It seems to me like there doesn't have to be like a certain set of circumstances for this to happen. Can it happen at any time or are there things that stimulate or increase the chances of this actually happening?
Bob Coppes: That's an interesting question. You know, many people think that near death experiences can only happen when you're very close to death with an accident or like a cardiac arrest or something like that. But that is many cases. Yeah, that's true. But there are also many cases of people who had a downturn in their life, a psychological crisis, a very severe one, and they have reported, many of those have reported similar experiences.
And there are also people who have meditated very deeply or prayed very deeply. They have NDEs, but also they sometimes they report NDEs too and even spontaneously, there are a few cases that I came across and I, I researched them and I, tend to believe that these people, have had such an experience spontaneously.
Johnny Burke: I'm hearing that more and more as well. When you mentioned, how most people are inclined to believe NDES happen when we are near death- which can happen that reminds me of a hospital or a hospice setting where the person that's about to crossover starts recognizing people that have passed on that seem to be talking to them. Does your research crossover into that where some of the experiencers, did actually witness that happening? Or is that just another kettle of fish altogether?
Bob Coppes: Something like that. It is, those are deathbed visions. And they are very interesting. They seem to be similar. Sometimes even people sitting next to the bed, experience a shared death experience. So they go with them up to a certain point and they are told, no, you cannot go further. You should go back again. But those are very interesting. But those are not the ones that I looked at. It's really the near-death experiences. .........
Johnny Burke: But the shared death experience is as you just described; someone who could be sitting there along with them that goes into a certain place where they are able to see spirits or connect with them?
Bob Coppes: Well, there are two examples of those in my book, because I, I thought they are very interesting to just mention as well, and one of them had, some kind of, how do you say that? proof that it's real to it, because in my book I also have a chapter on, critical observations. So those are verifiable, out of body experiences to prove, with circumstantial evidence that NDEs are real.
And one of those examples was that two people separately, went up in this wonderful area, this wonderful other place together with the child that was dying and they didn't know from each other that they went with this child to a certain point and had to return again. But after a number of years, they spoke to each other again. and they found out that they both had the same experience
[Johnny Burke: This is in your book.
Bob Coppes: It is in my book. Yeah.
Johnny Burke: Do you remember what their names were or what that section was?
Bob Coppes: It's in the chapter on vertical observations. I can't recall from this moment what the title is.
Johnny Burke: I think that's enough of a hint of where we can find that, that's really cool where two people that didn't know each other had the same experience. That's like someone going to two different mediums who don't know each other, and they tell them the same exact thing,
Bob Coppes: They were sitting beside the bed, and they had the same experience, exactly the same experience, but they didn't talk about it after the experience because they thought, I'm going crazy. They said, I cannot tell these people that I have had such a nice experience where this little child has died and the whole family is sitting there and being sad, and I'm here having this happy experience. So after all these years, after 10 years, I don't know how long that was, they spoke to each other and then, they found out that they had the same experience, and they were silent.
Johnny Burke: So speaking of proof, is there really any scientific proof? As I mentioned before there's a body of documented experiences, which has to be in the millions by now. But is there any scientific research that kind of proves this without a doubt, or are we not quite there yet?
Bob Coppes: Well, it is difficult to research this in a way that the scientists allow or accept it. There was wonderful research done in the Netherlands, prospective research that means that you can repeat it again. I mean you can't kill someone not far enough. And then bring them back again and have them recall their NDE. That's unethical. So that's not the repeatable study that I'm talking about.
A study done in hospitals in the Netherlands for 30 years where they asked everyone who was brought into the hospital with a cardiac arrest did you have any recollection of when you were out? And 344 people were in the program and about 62 people, had, recollection and they had an NDE. Then you have two sets of people, people with an NDE and people without an NDE, but having the same cause, like a cardiac arrest. And then you can see if there's differences between these groups. And there were no differences. Like both of them had a, a lack of oxygen. Both of them had a dying brain that gave off substances that could cause these NDEs, but those are not the causes. So that's good research.
That was repeated in the United States and in Britain. And then there is of course the vertical observations. Not real scientific work, but it's very important because it gives you circumstantial evidence that NDEs are real, that at least it is real, that your consciousness can be outside of your body. It doesn't need your body
Johnny Burke: Out of body experience I think, are part of that. That brings to mind several instances written by people that are very famous, which we'll probably get to that later. But have you had direct experience in your interviews with people that have flatlined and have been able to observe the room around them or even in other rooms or anything like that?
Bob Coppes: Yeah, yeah. There are a few examples of those in my book as well. Like, from Mika Ala,??? that's a woman in the, in the United States who had a car accident on the highway somewhere. She was flown in a helicopter to the hospital. So she was, unconscious. She had her NDE during her flight into the hospital, and she saw her future. In her future. She saw that she would have grandchildren, but she was dead then. So she pleaded with, she said it was God to let her live, to experience that. So the next moment she was hovering in her room in the hospital; she could go anywhere. And her body was lying on the bed, but she could go to the cafeteria where her parents were sitting with the grandparents, and the father was so nervous he said,” I need a smoke. “So he went out and wanted to have a smoke. And then the two grand, mothers, who never smoked and would never smoke. They said, “we need a smoke too. We'll go with you”. And she told that story later when she was fine, when she was recovered, and her parents never believed her until she told that part of what she saw.
Because that's odd that that these grandmothers would smoke whereas they never did that. and she saw it. She couldn't have seen it from the place where her body was. And there are hundreds of these stories, and they're collected in a book. Also published by IANDS the The Self Does Not Die. It's a very interesting book with so many of these examples.
Johnny Burke: What I think is interesting about that is that brainwaves were non-existent; they are brain dead, so there's really no way they could have imagined that. They could not have, how else could they been able to tell in your instance where people walked outside, they said certain things, they went into certain places. How else could they know that?
Bob Coppes: Yeah. Yeah. That, and that's the idea. Yeah.
Johnny Burke: That's really, really incredible. There is a woman, she was an IANDS, member. I think she still is. She's in Santa Barbara. And she had a similar experience where she went into the hospital for a procedure. It went sideways. She flatlined and was able to see the doctors and everyone, the surgeons working in the room and going into other rooms and being able to remember what people said. At the time, this is in the eighties, no one believed her, but as she went back to the hospital years later, one of the neurosurgeons actually admitted, “yes, Barbara, you had a near death experience.
But I was not able to say that out loud because of it might upset my staff or some of the other patients.”
Bob Coppes: Or would damage the career of the doctor.
Johnny Burke: Oh, yeah, yeah. They said, “No, no, no. You're imagining things”. And she said something to the effect of I did? I flatlined. Right? So how could I have imagined it? I've also noticed whenever I bring this up around certain religious types, they still don't really want to admit it -I know what I know. I believe what I believe. Don't confuse me with the facts type of thing,
Bob Coppes: Yeah, that's true. yes. Religious people are well, a little bit difficult in that sense, they're nice, but they are hooked up to their belief. And sometimes some people do allow it, but others don't. And I don't know why it's, it's easy to just see the facts and live with them. Because it gives you hope. They're wonderful facts. It gives such nice hope for your life.
Johnny Burke: That consciousness does survive the death of the brain. If you can get your head around that, everything else seems to be 5% easier.
Bob Coppes: Yeah.
Johnny Burke: There's things that I hear on this podcast that are pretty out there, but what do I know? I'm just a guy with a lot of questions. So, I just let them talk and tell their story. But the near-death experiences are probably the most tangible thing that can give credence to the theory that consciousness does survive death of the brain when you connect that with Mediumship readings or even, past life experiences. You put one and one together or you connect the dots, as it were. You start to think, oh, yeah, well, I guess it is possible, but like you said, a lot of us are conditioned from going to church and so forth at a young age that that becomes an obstacle later on for some of us.
Bob Coppes: Yeah, but there are still people that go to church and allow for this in their thinking. So it's what you want to allow. It's all up to you.
Johnny Burke: What other examples can you give us that are very noteworthy that we need to know about?
Bob Coppes: Oh, there are a few wonderful examples. Like, one example is a woman who had her near-death experience and in her near-death experience, she knows everything. She sees everything. That's what many NDEers say; once you're there in this other world, you know everything, every piece of knowledge is there for you. You can just tap into it, and you have all the knowledge and it's so easy. She said," I don't understand why didn't see that. Being in my body on earth, it is so easy. Everything is easy". And she was told, she had to go back to her body, and she wanted to go back to her body, because she had a child to look after. And she thought, I want to take with me all that knowledge. And I know that's not possible. So I will remember just one sentence that says it all that gives the whole thing away that that tells you what it's real, and that sentence is all is everything and everything is one. So all is everything and everything is one.
She says everything is one. We are so connected with each and every one of us. Also the people you don't like. I mean yeah, just imagine everyone has someone you don't like. It could be a politician or someone around the corner or in your family. Also, that person is connected very, very closely to you, to everyone.
Johnny Burke: It is kind of hard to get my head around that. I'm connected to a politician that I do not like at all!
Bob Coppes: Yeah, that's earthly thinking. And because you need to have another level, which we don't have, I don't have it. You don't have it. We don't have that level yet. But once we have that, we see through everything and it's so easy and it makes that we are all connected. That's also what I try to say to people. If we are so connected, if we are even one- there are NDEers that say that we are one, then life is a zero-sum game. It means that if I do something to you, I actually do it to myself because I do it to the whole thing. You can't just do something and walk away thinking, well, that's it. I don't feel anything. No, you will, you feel it? Not now but once you're dead, you'll feel exactly what that is.
Johnny Burke: Do you have examples of the life review, which I think is really interesting where apparently, we get to feel what we did to other people from their point of view, which can be good or maybe not so good. What are your experiences?
Bob Coppes: Yeah. Life reviews are really the things that are life changing. The whole NDE is life changer, but if someone had a life review, it really does it. Exactly what you say you feel what you did to the other as if you are that other, you become the receiver. And I have a very nice example of that, of a woman that I spoke in the Netherlands. She was a small, just after World War II and there was nothing in the Netherlands. We were a war-torn country with, well, we didn't have any luxury then. And she was given from her mother a few suites to share with friends in school, which she did. And then later in life she had her NDE.
And in her NDE, she had her life review and she saw that particular moment in time when she shared the suites with the little school girls. She felt it as if she was the school girl. And that was astonishing to her because it she felt it as if she was thought so valuable to get these, suites. And she also felt that it was not only the school friend, but it went also to the mother and beyond that. So there is a ripple effect in everything you do. If you do something, it will ripple through the whole world. And the same schoolgirl, she said the same NDEer said, she saw another episode of her life in school. There was another school friend who had lice, these little crawling monsters in your hair, and there were no shampoos at the time.
This girl asked her to help her with these lice to get them rid of them. And then she did it with a lot of fuss. So the NDEer made a lot of fuss about it. And then she had her life review and she saw what that did to the schoolgirl. She was the schoolgirl, and she felt as if what she did was a stab in her heart. And that was in itself was horrible, but the most horrible thing is horrible to feel what it is you did to someone else, as if you're the receiver. But the most horrible thing was that I saw that there were options. I had different choices. I could have made a different choice that would've brought more love into the world and that I missed out on that choice. That was really terrible. That's what she said, and I think that's such a nice story.
Johnny Burke: I think that element of the near death experience is probably as important as anything else because when you realize that you are going to feel what you made other people feel, it puts a premium on maintaining good behavior and, being more of a loving person as.
Bob Coppes: Yes.
Johnny Burke: Wishy-washy or weak, as that may sound to some people. I'd rather feel what making someone else feels good, as a receiver rather than if I treated someone bad. But, I guess for some people they're just going to have to wait till that day comes
Bob Coppes: That's true. I mean, Damien Brinkley is a guy who, he said to himself that he was a terrible guy and he was in countless fights in school and he stole bikes. And then, later on he was part of an American organization that went abroad, killing of adversaries of the United States government. And he said, " I killed many people. And one time I blew up a hotel with more than 50 people in it just to take out one." In his life review, he saw what he did. He saw every kill. He was, as he said, " I became the receiver of every one of my kills. And not only the people that I killed, but also the women that were left behind and the children of these people that I killed off. I felt their sorrow and their pain, and that goes deep". And, nevertheless, he was loved unconditionally. That's the interesting thing, that's there for everyone.
Johnny Burke: Despite his bad deeds, that might be why some religious types tend to say things like God loves everyone- God meaning source or source energy, or whatever you want to call it. How about instances where NDE Experiencers report, like heightened psychic activity? For instance, there's a man I interviewed a while back he actually had two, near death experiences, but even after the first one he noticed afterward he had mediumship type experiences, which he did not want. I've noticed that with several people. Have you interviewed people that have said the same thing?
Bob Coppes: Yeah, those are some of the aftereffects that can occur. I mean, mediumship is something that I hear often. People get more intuitive, more more sensitive. They need less medicine. They are, light and sounds can be very harsh to them. They don't like that so much, but mediumship qualities, yes.
There there is a wonderful book, written by a woman who saw the future even, and no one believed her. So what she did was, she would send mails to herself that carry a timestamp. And then she would write down what she saw and then later she could say, well, I saw the plane, ditching in the Hudson River in New York, and I see my timestamp is before the event and things like that. So, there's many people that tell these stories and it's not for everyone. as deep as this one but. I hear that often.
Johnny Burke: I can see why you seem to think that the Experiencers, the people that have had the NDEs are the best tutors in life. We can learn a lot from them, especially if we, compare what we can learn from them and other experiences as opposed to a musty old religious textbook, which I won't name because it's in every religion, not just one. But, I am definitely aligned with that thought. What do you think are the main takeaways for the NDEs for us to know?
Bob Coppes: that's a, belief that I really carry is that if people really start to believe that NDEs are real when they see critical observation, when they understand critical observations that your consciousness can be outside of your body, , that the rest of the stories are real, then they, they will start, looking, what are the messages in NDEs? And in my book, I leave it up to people to come to their own conclusion. But if you'd ask me the two main messages are unconditional love. That's the main part of all these NDEs and also oneness. I mean, we are all one. We are in this together. We are not separate.
If I do something to you, I do it to myself just as we spoke before, and I think that if people really understand that NDEs and these messages are important, then maybe they will, well, not maybe, I'm sure people will change their life. They will be different towards each other, but also towards nature and we need that. I believe that's going to happen eventually. It will take some time, but I think, there is a good future for humanity yeah,
I'm sure about that.
Johnny Burke: Very good points. And is there any crossover in your research, in your interviews with NDEs going into past lives, anything like that?
[Bob Coppes: The past lives, reincarnation and stuff like that- there are people that say, I've seen past lives. Yes. There's also a number of NDEers that said, well, it doesn't resonate with me; It doesn't ring a bell. I didn't see it. I don't think it is there. And interestingly, the percentage of people who have had an NDE that believe in reincarnation is more or less similar to the general public.
So it's not that NDEers will give you some evidence that reincarnation exists. In my own view- that's my personal view, is that if we are all one, then actually who is leading all these lives that are on Earth? That have been on Earth? That's the Supreme one or God , or how do you want to call it? There's one NDEer said," no, we don't reincarnate, God reincarnates." and I thought that was a wonderful way of saying it.
Johnny Burke: We don't reincarnate; God reincarnates, but if we are all one, isn't that kind of saying the same thing?
Bob Coppes: That's the same thing. Yeah. if you wanna see it like this, I also led the life of Cleopatra, I should know it, not here, but once I'm united with the one, when I'm dead, when I'm reunite with the one, then I know everything about Cleopatra because the one has been Cleopatra and all the other people.
Johnny Burke: is that an example or is that actually one of your past life memories?
Bob Coppes: This is just my example it's a thought. Yeah.
Johnny Burke: If it was, that's one critical point I would've missed. The reason I bring that up is because I think you've had cases where you've interviewed people and they were told why they were here on Earth, which kind of implies you have more than one life. other words, they were maybe told by some being that they had a reason to be here.
Bob Coppes: Yeah. you know, some people want to know and they ask for it, and they get an answer, and some people don't ask for it, but they get it as a bonus. It's differs. Some people say it is to express love, and other people say it is just a game. On the other side everything is hunky dory. Everything is nice , this earth is created for us with limitations to express your divinity. So, they say that we are all divine, we just need to express our divinity.
There's a very nice story I always want to tell of a little girl, Christina. She was eight years old when she was abducted by two men and assaulted and she was rescued, of course. Otherwise she can't tell the story. And she had her NDE. In her NDE, she said," I saw this gray man, and it looked like Santa Claus, but it was not Santa Claus, but it must have been God. It was God. And I had a conversation with God', and God said,' you have to go back again to earth, to your body. You have to live your life. And it's very easy. I'll give you the recipe for living your life. It's has only four ingredients.", and God then gave the four ingredients to her. And those were love, be loved, just be and experience life
Johnny Burke: The four ingredients.
Bob Coppes: Love, be loved, just be and experience life. You know, the first two are you have to do something for it. Even receiving love. You need to act. But for the latter two, it gives you the impression that is, just do, just be here. That's enough. Experience life, that's another thing. And NDEers say it's a gift. We need to enjoy the gift, even if you have so many problems, even if you have a life filled with problems , with financial problems, psychological problems. You mentioned it even then. It is a gift. It's not something I understand. I don't have these experiences with financial, problems and stuff like that. Other people do. People are in war torn countries as as we speak.
Johnny Burke: As we speak.
Bob Coppes: Yeah. But nevertheless, I only repeat what NDEers say. They say life is a gift. Try to enjoy it even if you are, in the biggest hole in your life.
Johnny Burke: I've had other experiences tell me that when they they plan the life when they're in the in-between life place or stage, or whatever you want to call it, they choose an experience because even if it's unpleasant, it's gonna help them and their soul group learn from it. That's why I ask questions about crossover from NDEs to past lives to in-between lives and so forth. Because when someone starts to really connect the dots, and the NDE is a very big component of that, then a lot of this starts to make sense. It's not just a bunch of BS someone just made up.
Bob Coppes: No, that's true; there are stories about people who had, the opportunity to choose experiences. There's Betty Guadagno, from IANDS she has, the podcast there. She could choose before she went to her body to live her life. And she chose all these terrible things to experience, but she thought, well, that's interesting. I'm going to to earth.
I'm going to live. And she was excited and she chose all these terrible things she wanted to experience. It's a choice.
Johnny Burke: It’s almost like casting a movie.
Bob Coppes: That's what I said. It's like a game. It's sometimes it's like God or the Supreme one wants to go to movies. That's what I, said in my book. God went to the movies and, and the movies is where we are all in. You are doing part of it and I'm doing part of it and all the listeners do parts in it.
Johnny Burke: Yep. I've heard that more than once. Actually, I heard that about an hour ago, and I asked this one woman what it was like because she had several past life memories. She said that, " life here on earth is like a movie. And when you're beyond the veil in the other space, that's actually more real than it is here."
Bob Coppes: Exactly. Yeah. yeah, it is more real there. That's something that they say more often. This is just a, mere shadow of what the real thing is. And the real thing is wonderful for everyone. It's, it's there for everyone, no exceptions.
Johnny Burke: As hard as that is to believe, it's something I hear over and over again. So God went to the movies. I think we're gonna stop there I know I can't possibly top that. Bob, thanks so much for joining us, amazing information. In the meantime, how can our listeners find you online?
Bob Coppes: I have a website, it’s www .bobcoppes.com. And, people can ask questions there. I will always answer. And on Instagram it's also @bobcoppes