And They Were Roommates

Episode 7: Therapy! And, Some Other Stuff?

April 09, 2021 Quaple Network Season 1 Episode 7
And They Were Roommates
Episode 7: Therapy! And, Some Other Stuff?
Show Notes Transcript

Hey lovelies!  Thank you all for rolling with our week delay so we could all get the covid vaccine, recover, and take a short vacation. (Also sorry, Thursday did not happen in our house, so happy Friday!) I am so excited for y'all to listen to this episode about therapy, giving feedback, and some weird fun questions we decided to ask each other during our intermission.

We had so much fun doing the questions that we ran overtime! The second half of that question section is up as March bonus content on our Patreon!

If you loved this episode, please subscribe, tell your friends, and leave a comment! Want to help pay Foxglove and get access to amazing bonus content? Consider joining our fan community on Patreon. You can also find us on Instagram, Tumblr, and Twitter. We answer at least one listener question every episode. You can email us at quaplenetwork@gmail.com with your questions about life, relationships, polyamory,  or anything really. 

A big thank to molly ofgeography for the use her song Hanahaki (Bloom) for our music.

And remember, we believe in you!

Support the show (https://www.patreon.com/atwrpodcast)

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Foxglove:

Hey folks, I'm Foxglove.

Sage:

I'm Sage.

Sunflower:

I'm Sunflower!

Iris:

And I'm Iris.

Foxglove:

And this is And They Were Roommates, a podcast about modern love, life, and everything in between.

Sage: Disclaimer:

we are not experts at being adults, we have just lived through a lot. This week, we will be talking about finding a therapist and giving constructive criticism.

Foxglove:

So as an opener, we're all in therapy.

Iris:

Yeah, officially, all four of us have managed to find the therapist, which is super exciting.

Sage:

And it's great! Highly recommend.

Sunflower:

All at the same time.

Iris:

Yeah, I think this is the first time we all are in therapy at the same time.

Sage:

Yeah.

Foxglove:

Yeah, for sure.

Iris:

It's great.

Sunflower:

Which if Fox and Sage didn't have therapy on the same day, we would have just like four days straight of therapy every week. And I do think that would be funnier than what we currently do.

Foxglove:

Yeah, but then we would have to schedule around it.

Sunflower:

It's true. It's true.

Iris:

It's already a nightmare with three days.

Foxglove:

Honestly, it's a shame we can't have everyone's therapy on the same day and condense everyone's like, emotional experiences into the same like six hours.

Sage:

That sounds like a bad idea Fox.

Sunflower:

Oh hell no.

Sage:

I like that we can space out our emotions a little bit.

Foxglove:

My therapist thinks I'm too invested in efficiency.

Iris:

Yeah.

Sunflower:

I'd believe that.

Sage:

I'd say tell us more, but we have other topics to discuss today.

Iris:

Like what makes a good therapistfor you!

Foxglove:

Yes!

Iris:

Not generally.

Foxglove:

Should we start with like, what it looks like to maybe need a therapist? Or should we jump right into what a good therapist for an individual looks like?

Iris:

I think people can evaluate for themselves. Like we, that's a whole subject in and of itself is like

Foxglove:

Legitimate.

Iris:

how to know when you need to go to therapy.

Foxglove:

Yeah.

Sunflower:

If you're considering going to therapy, go to therapy.

Foxglove:

Therapy is good for everyone.

Sage:

Yeah, exactly. I was gonna say that. Even if you don't like acutely need therapy, which, congratulations, you're in a good place in your life! It can be helpful to have someone to bounce things off of just like in your everyday experience. It can be very revealing. It can be very constructive.

Foxglove:

I would venture to say that if you're ever planning to have children, you should maybe just hit up a therapist just kind of with a spirit of like, covering your bases.

Iris:

Absolutely.

Sunflower:

It's also like, you can go to a therapist and a therapist will honestly tell you after like a couple of sessions, getting to know them and stuff too just to be like, No, I think you're okay.

Foxglove:

Yeah.

Sunflower:

I think you got this.

Sage:

Mm-hmm.

Iris:

Yeah, that reminds me of Foxglove's mom, at one point. Like, went for a tune up. And like, went to therapy for a while, and then her therapist was like, You're cool.

Foxglove:

Yeah. She went to like, four sessions, I think? And the person she was seeing was like, Honestly, you seemt like you've really learned how to cope with your own life, and like, you seem like you have it together, and you seem really like, proud of your kid and you seem like you need to move out of where you live. So like, maybe move somewhere less isolated, and I think you're gonna be okay,

Sunflower:

On the absolute flip side. I made it to like two years and was like, Hey therapist, I maybe feel like I might be done. Am I done? And she was like, If you want to be done, I will let you be done. But I

Foxglove:

No girl.

Sunflower:

would like to continue seeing you.

Sage:

And that ended up being a good idea.

Sunflower:

Yes, it wasoh, God yeah. But anyway, what makes a good therapist for you isthat, that is not a subject I feel particularly equipped to handle, but I am happy to hand it off to one of y'all.

Iris:

Yeah, um, I can speak a little bit to that. There's a lot of factors that go into what makes a good therapist for you, first of all, baseline, find a therapist whose style works for you. There's a bunch of different types of therapy with different like, methodologies and approaches to how they actually do therapy. I encourage you to look into those, we're not going to go into like, intense detail, because I'm not a therapist, and I do not have a psychology degree. So I wouldn't explain them as well as somebody on the internet who does would be able to. But um, like, for example, I knew I was looking for somebody who does cognitive behavioral therapy, and like, get used to all like, all of those different terminologies, do some research on that, and figure out maybe what type of therapy you're looking for and what you think might work, and a lot of that is trial and error too of like, finding a therapist, trying them out, seeing if you like their style, and paying attention to what type of therapy they do so you know next time what you're looking for. Another thing is, if you're a part of a minority group, it's frequently good to look for therapists who specifically work with minority groups generally, or your particular minority group.

Foxglove:

I in particular went out and I found a clinic thatI'm not looking for therapy about gender, but I went out found a clinic that specializes in queer therapy, because I was like, I'm kind of tired of having to explain the concept of being nonbinary to a new therapist. Whereas like, my current therapist, I was just like, Yeah, I'm trying putting pronouns in like, the name of a zoom call. So like, do you mind if I switch them every once in a while? And she was like, Yeah, dude, whatever makes you happy.

Sunflower:

Yeah, I think the big thing too, is is like, get a collection of like, what you're struggling with together, like write it down, make a list. And really like, there's websites that help out there and everything too of like, you can filter by all these different things that you need help with right now. Like I, I have trauma. So I looked for like a trauma-informed therapist, and like I specifically looked for a PTSD therapist, because I was like, I've done some googling. I think this might be it. I think this is the thing.

Foxglove:

Yeah.

Sunflower:

And I also like, for this group, and for people who listen, who maybe are also poly, having a therapist who's like, down with your sexuality is like really important.

Sage:

Absolutely.

Foxglove:

Especially because with polyamory in particular, this only happened with one therapist that I saw, and I stopped seeing her for unrelated reasons after one session, but I told her I was polyamorous and her response was basically like, Oh, okay, so you have attachment issues. And I was like, that's, that's not what I said.

Sunflower:

Nope.

Foxglove:

That's very different from what I said. Thanks for trying, though.

Iris:

Exactly. Yeah. And there are a lot of places that will like, advertise, or therapists specifically who will advertise like, Hey, I work with non-traditional family structures, or

Foxglove:

That's the clutch phrase, yeah.

Iris:

Yeah. However, they decide to phrase it. But yeah, I think what Sun mentioned about like, also, finding a therapist, like, if you have a particular thing that you're looking for a specialty in, it's always a good idea to obviously try to go and filter therapists when you're looking, which we'll get a little bit into, like how to actually do the finding of the therapist. Um, but yeah, like, always look for specialties, minority groups, different types of therapy.

Foxglove:

And I think the obvious one, one that's like, so obvious I think we forgot to mention it. If you're only comfortable seeing a therapist of a specific gender, you should also not try to push yourself. That's not the environment to get experimental in.

Sunflower:

That was, yeah, that was exactly what I was gonna say. Like, I don't see doctors who are male, for reasons, and I also didn't want to see a therapist who's a male, because I knew I would have trust issues with that. So like, you really need to, like, think about the important things for you to trust that person as quickly as possible.

Sage:

This is something that you're doing to help yourself, don't put obstacles in your own way while you're trying to do that.

Sunflower:

Exactly.

Foxglove:

There are timeplaces and times to like, push your comfort zone, and I would put finding a new therapist not in one of the places or times.

Sage:

Yep.

Sunflower:

Yeah, I think that's the big categories of like, what youwhat makes a good therapist for you?

Sage:

Yeah.

Foxglove:

Yeah, I would really, I would wholeheartedly recommend searching by like, consider those things in whatever order they are most important to you, like the most important thing to me was finding a therapist who had experience with trans patients. So like, no, I didn't search for people who specifically had experience with ADHD and PTSD, I started with people who had experience with trans patients and worked my way down from there.

Iris:

Exactly. Find what matters to you in a therapist versus what generally matters in therapy.

Foxglove:

Yeah.

Sage:

So do we want to touch on how to actually put all those different specialist requirements into practice and actually find someone?

Foxglove:

Can I recommend the like, most straightforward method that was very friendly to me a person with massive executive dysfunctioning issues?

Iris:

Yep.

Foxglove:

I just asked for a referral from someone who I knew was seeing a good therapist. I literally was just like, Can you ask them to email me a list of clinics or whatever that take my insurance. And then I just worked my way down that list

Sage:

That's how I found mine too.

Sunflower:

If you have a friend going to therapy who's feeling good about the therapist they're with, like, they know other good therapists.

Foxglove:

Mm-hmm.

Iris:

Yeah, I would say that that's actually probably the best way to find a new therapist is through a referral from somebody you trust who's also in therapy. Or if you're currently seeing a therapist, one thing I want to mention because sometimes it's a matter of like, Oh, you're in therapy with a good therapist, and then suddenly, they're moving or switching practices or not taking your insurance anymore, and you suddenly need to find a new one. Ask them for help. If you already have a good therapist, ask them for help finding your next therapist, because they will do that and they are happy to.

Sage:

And they know you best and they know the kind of people that are going to be able to mesh well with you after having spent that time with you already.

Sunflower:

Yeah, I think the other thing that came in handy a lot, I found my therapist through Psychology Today. And that was like a big, they have a lot of filters, they have location filters, they have stuff you're looking for, and they even have options for like all the different LGBTQ stuff

Iris:

Identities.

Sunflower:

and also like polyamory and all of it.

Iris:

Big PSA that a lot of this stuff that we're talking about when it comes to finding a therapist is specifically very USA-centric. We live in Brooklyn, and that's where we have done all of our finding therapies, so we also have to navigate things like the nightmare of the United States medical system and insurance.

Foxglove:

Referrals, referrals are probably always a good bet. But if you live somewhere where you don't have to worry about paying hundreds and hundreds of dollars out of pocket every single week to find a therapist, the insurance thing is going to be less of a concern for you.

Iris:

Yeah.

Sunflower:

Okay, is there any other where-to-looks that we've thought about?

Sage:

The internet is a bountiful place full of resources, just make sure that you do your due diligence because the internet is

Sunflower:

A nightmare place?

Sage:

a boundless place filled with a ton of resources, and not all of them are good.

Iris:

Yeah, and I will also say there are sometimes reference sites, how I found my therapist was through I think it's called thewait, give me a sec. I actually want to

Sage:

Yeah, put in a plug there.

Sunflower:

That it, yeah, that is a good one.

Iris:

Yeah. So if y'all are New York City-based like we are, there is the Manhattan Alternative Wellness Collective. And they are like, it's like manhattanalternative.com, and that is how I found my therapist, not because the people that I ended up contacting through that website actually had ended up having openings, but because I was able to get a list from those people, for other similar people, and the Manhattan Alternative Wellness Collective is a group of like, people who are sex positive, all gender and lifestyle affirming therapy and wellness providers. So I found them to be super helpful for finding a therapist.

Sage:

Also, obligatory mentione that there are other services out there that are not what you'd call traditional therapy, stuff like Talkspace, and Betterhelp. And your mileage may vary on those, it's a very different kind of service than just your traditional talk therapy. It does include some video sessions, some audio sessions, and like some text conversations. But yeah, it's not for everyone. But it is an option.

Foxglove:

I saw a therapist through Betterhelp. I believe, for a while. I have seen, including school counselors, nine therapists in my life. Most of them were bad. But I saw a therapist briefly through Betterhelp, who was fine, I stopped seeing her because she wasn't really like focused in the area that I needed help in. But the thing I liked about them is that you can just straight up fucking ghost someone who isn't working out for you. No conversation required, love that shit. Someone refused to get my name right for an entire session, and I just bounced, and the next therapist I found there was fine.

Sage:

The sole engagement that I had with Talkspace was positive. But I ended up finding my way back to a therapist who had worked really well with me before, so. I did not end up getting that much experience with Talkspace. But I can put in a plug for it for people who perhaps are not into video sessions or audio sessions and just want to be able to chat at someone throughout the day, which I know can definitely be a helpful, helpful strategy for talking with people.

Foxglove:

Or if you're in a tight financial spot.

Iris:

Which I will say, they do tend to cost more than you think they will cost.

Foxglove:

Yeah. It's cheaper to do like, text only than video or whatever. But like, in terms of if it's all you can do, it is somewhat more affordable than traditional therapy.

Iris:

I do want to just throw out there, we've thrown some names around, we are not advocating for or advertising for any of these individual

Sunflower:

Yeah. purely based on our very limited experience.

Iris:

Yeah.

Sage:

Yup.

Sunflower:

Which is important to say.

Sage:

Thanks for the disclaimer Iris.

Sunflower:

I will also say, if your best bet will probably always be if you have health insurance, see what they have for your behavioral health coverage, and if they have in-network stuff, try to find somebody who is in network or if they have reimbursements, or whatever, like really leverage what you do have access to.

Foxglove:

Yeah. Especially because if you can get like a list from your insurance of places they cover, that is a much more manageable starting point than like, Psychology Today is great. I can handle about 10 minutes on that website before I'm so overwhelmed I could cry.

Sage:

Also, in addition to going through your insurance to figure out what they'll cover, behavioral health is often not covered the same way as a lot of other services through your insurance, so. While you're asking your insurance about who or what to cover, please make sure what other limits there are, what maximums or minimums there are, and if you are going out of network, as a couple of us are, how much they will cover and when they'll start covering that amount. Because we live in the US and there's some problems that go with that.

Iris:

Yeah I was about to say, can y'all

Sunflower:

Life is a fucking nightmare.

Iris:

can y'all tell we've been like a little bit screwed over by the healthcare system sometimes?

Foxglove:

Yeah, spot the people who got scammed by an insurance company.

Sage:

I hate the fact that on a scale of people who have been screwed over by the healthcare industry that we're in the mild camp, it just

Foxglove:

Yep.

Sage:

our standards are so low, guys.

Iris:

I mean, yeah, no, I mean, we aren't entirely in the mild camp, considering the fact that like, we did get, like heavily insurance scammed for a year Foxglove.

Sage:

Oh yeah, there was

Foxglove:

I sure as hell did.

Sage:

well technically it didn't qualify as insurance. So. Anyway, that's a sad story.

Foxglove:

Technically it wasn't insurance. But they did have a lot of charges brought against them.

Sage:

Yay!

Sunflower:

Big nope. We're all fine. We have health insurance now, it's good. Iris, you should start this one.

Iris:

What to ask a new therapist?

Sage:

Yeah!

Sunflower:

Yeah yeah yeah, you should start this one.

Foxglove:

Have a list.

Iris:

Yeah. Um, so when it comes to interviewing a new therapist, and that's a key word, interviewing, you are interviewing them as much as they are interviewing you. You want to find somebody who's a good fit for you, do not settle for a therapist, especially if, like in this current digital world where you can see a therapist who might be further away or might not be accessible otherwise, try your best to find somebody that actually works for you who has the specialties you need, and who you just like click with, is, is the biggest thing. Because I had, in a similar case, I had forgotten one therapist earlier when we were talking. So I've had probably like six therapists at this point, over the course of my life, only my most recent one in a similar way to Fox, only my most recent therapist is good. And from session one, I was opening up and I was telling her things that I never told any other therapist in years of therapy. And I immediately clicked with her, and she's helped me so much. And it's because of the fact that we were able to immediately develop this rapport. And we were able to immediately have that, like just connection. It doesn't always work that way. Sometimes you need a couple of sessions to like, figure out a dynamic with a therapist. That's okay too. But just make sure you're not settling for somebody who like, you're not comfortable with or that doesn't really understand the way you communicate or the way that you're conveying your emotions or your thoughts or your feelings. So find somebody that works with you. So that's like my first PSA. And then second is what do you actually ask a new therapist. Good things to ask is about the style of therapy, the way that they tend to do stuff, if you've had problems with therapists in the past, you can, you know, pose a problem to them. I know Fox, you've done this, if you want to talk to that a little bit of like, Hey, I tend to do X in therapy, how will you combat that?

Foxglove:

Yeah, um, historically, part of the reason I've had issues with therapists is because they, I will walk in, and I will be like, X thing is really upsetting me. And then I will have trouble talking about X thing, because I'm not good at talking about my feelings. And then they will go, Well, you're not talking about X thing, so you must be fine. So when I started looking for a therapist this time around, I had like, a list of questions, the first two of which were like, I'm trans, ya cool? And the second one was, like, I'm poly, ya cool? And the third one was like, Here is a problem I have had in the past, how would you handle something like this? Like, how would you handle someone who was upset about something but having trouble discussing it? And based on their answer, I would proceed from there. You can do this during the first session, you can also, a lot of therapists will do a phone consult ahead of time, either on request or as part of their standard practice. And I'm not going to lie, not my current therapist, but the previous therapist, I like got on the phone with her and I was like, I'm trans, ya cool? I'm poly, ya cool? And I got so my third question, and I like ran down the list. And she was like, Oh, okay. When you said you had questions, and you'd been to therapy before, you meant, you knew what you were doing. And I was like, Yes, yes, I do. Thank you for asking. I do know what I'm doing. Answer my question please. Um, you are allowed to be kind of a hardass with a new therapist, is my point here.

Sunflower:

You should be.

Sage:

Yeah you're entrusting them with your mental health.

Foxglove:

Exactly. You should be pushy, you can go in and be like Here are my specific questions here are my specific concerns. I absolutely write that shit down before first sessions. And I go in with a notebook, and I know that makes me look kind of intimidating, and that's okay. It's okay for a therapist to be a little intimidated if you show up with like a page of notes.

Sunflower:

Yeah, you should be, you should, whatever that you think would help you get more out of your therapy, you should ask questions about it. And like, there's a lot in there and also like, I less formally went into it because I did like a big long screener and then like, they helped me decide who out of like 15 people would fit me best based on like availability and what I would, what I needed and all that shit.

Iris:

That is the nice part if you go to an actual practice, they can help match you with a therapist, which is like a

Sage:

Typically, typically there's someone who knows enough extra-nice little step. about all the different people at the practice who can read your responses to the questionnaire that you give answers to and go like, Hmm, I think this therapist would be

Sunflower:

And then you read some bios. the right person for you, or perhaps this person if that person is not available. And it is a very convenient rocess.

Iris:

Yeah. And thenI'm sorry, you were saying?

Sunflower:

Definitely, definitely. Um, oh, I think it was really just like, so I just like hopped right into first session, and I was the first time I ever met my therapist and everything. And I really tried to likeluckily, I live with the people I live with, obviously. So I came home and everyone was like, How did you like them? Were you comfortable? Was it good? Did you like them? Were they nice? Is it like a comfortable place? Do you feel safe? And like, that was really good. I think I needed to be like a little interrogated, because I was so nervous to go to therapy, because it was the first time not seeing like, somebody who was mandated by a school. And that was like a really rewarding thing. And I think something that I like to keep in mind when it comes to therapists and everything is like you're paying them, you pay them like a lot of money. So like, if they're not working out, or you're not comfortable, or you just don't like it, it's not a good fit and everything, they're probably not worth it then.

Foxglove:

Yeah. And I think that brings us beautifully to the last thing we wanted to discuss, which is knowing when to leave.

Sunflower:

Look at me doing a nice, smooth transition,

Foxglove:

Delivering the segue.

Sage:

It's a group effort

Foxglove:

It is. So I've learned some lessons about this.

Sunflower:

Do you want to tell us some lessons about this?

Foxglove:

The first thing I've learned is that I tend to be excessively generous with therapists, because I have really intense anxiety. And so like, no, I'm not comfortable with my therapist. Like, even my current therapist who is exce lent and like, really pays atte tion and really thinks her like you know, words through and akes time to like, make sure that I'm doing okay, I'm extr mely anxious with her. So no, 'm not comfortable with my ther pist, and in the past, that mean that I have come at it with this attitude of like, I'll war up to anyone given the tim . And fun fact, that has pro uced me exactly zero res lts. And like, I've had th rapists in the past who were fi e, I saw one woman through Ta kspace, who I stopped seeing be ause I wound up in the ho pital, and then my life got re lly busy and I didn't talk to er for a while.

Sage:

For unrelated reasons I should add.

Foxglove:

For unrelated reasons. I had pneumonia, it was fun. I have seenI saw a therapist when I was much, much younger, who was fine, like she was fine. But the issue with the fact that I tend to be excessively generous is that like, with the last couple of therapists I've seen, I've really had to like, have the others kind of hold me accountable for being honest about how I feel about them. And being honest about like, Well, you know, like this person has canceled on me like three times with really very little notice. And like, you know, I don't, I don't like that, and I don't feel great about it, and like, being able to articulate that like I had a specific problem rather than just being like, I'm anxious because I'm in therapy and it makes me anxious to have to interact with like, a medical provider. That was, that was key. So I would say that like, if you are someone who is anxious in unfamiliar social situations, it's okay, don't cut and run the first time you have a therapy session and you feel pretty anxious through it, because that's very common. But also like, if you have someone in your life that you trust, maybe have them talk to you after your therapy sessions, and if you really like, don't vibe with how the therapy is going, four sessions, five sessions, that's probably enough time to have a sense of what's going on. Absolutely. Like there are things that are like red flags immediately, like I once went to a therapist who said that they were super-duper queer friendly, and then I walked in and asked about, like mentioned being bisexual and like, I had to define it for her. And I was like, cool, I'm gone.

Sage:

Oh yeah, just not worth it at that point.

Iris:

It's just not worth it at that point. Like I shouldn't have to define my identities to my therapist, I shouldn't have to explain my existence to my therapist.

Sunflower:

Also they're saying they're queer friendly, they should know the like, basic definition of each of the things.

Iris:

Exactly. But so like, there are some things that will immediately red flag for you and you can walk away. But like for the most part, especially when it comes down to that like, developing a rapport and trying to get past that initial anxiety of going to a new therapist, give it a couple of sessions and like Fox said, see if you can talk about it with somebody that you trust and I do want to highlight that that conversation with somebody you trust does not in any way shape or form have to be about the content of the therapy.

Foxglove:

Exactly.

Iris:

It should just be about, Are you comfortable with this therapist? Are they helping you, do you feel safe, do you feel supported.

Sunflower:

Do you feel like they're listening?

Foxglove:

That can look different person to person is the other thing. Like really the thing I was looking for when I went out and found my current therapist was I was like, I really just need someone who's going to like, hold me accountable to talking to about the things I said I was here to talk about. And like, she does a great job at that. I'm cripplingly anxious in therapy, the same way I'm cripplingly anxious every time I go to a doctor. And it's just gonna be like that for a while.

Iris:

And that's okay. It's still a new therapy relationship too.

Foxglove:

Yeah like, I wasn't necessarily going into this expecting to find someone who like made me feel like safe and fine from the jump. And I was upfront with my therapist about that, I was like, Hey, I'm gonna be pretty nervous for a while. That's okay, too. Part of the advantage is that she pretty much went, Okay, that's good to know. And like, discussing the experience of interacting with a therapist with someone you trust can be really helpful to help parse whether or not you should keep seeing that person.

Iris:

And also, I do want to highlight before we like wrap up therapy, that when you're going into therapy, especially if you haven't done therapy before, this will change over time. But it's helpful to inform the therapist like of what you want to get out of therapy. Not just why you're going, but what the end goal is for your initial therapy. That'll change over time, you'll probably develop new goals and new milestones and stuff like that. And where you thought you might end therapy might not actually be where you end up at. But it's really helpful for therapists to know when you're going in why you're going, but also what you want out of it.

Foxglove:

Yeah. And it's okay if what you want out of it isn't really clear to you upfront, it's okay, if you go in and you're like, What I want out of this is to feel better. I feel bad right now. And I don't want to feel that way anymore. That's enough of an answer.

Sage:

Your therapist should eventually be able to interpret that vague of a statement and then be able to give you more actionable steps toward that goal. That is very literally their job.

Iris:

Yeah, you don't have to know it all, but it helps if you, especially if you have a certain thing you're going to therapy for. If you have an idea of what you want to get out of it.

Sunflower:

Yeah, absolutely. I think that was pretty comprehensive, y'all.

Foxglove:

I feel great about that.

Iris:

Cool.

Foxglove:

Yeah.

Sunflower:

Okay, who wants to intro our middle section?

Foxglove:

Well, I was told that I'm the best at doing tongue twisters.

Sunflower:

Yeah you do it.

Foxglove:

So I guess it's me. Now I, now I have to get it right the first time. So we did this middle section for our very first episode as kind of a get to know us portion, and we had so much fun with it we decided to bring it back. We have decided to name it Quick Quaple Questions. And it's just gonna be us coming up with increasingly weirdas we run through the easy onesquestions for the group. Who wants to start? I guess we're taking suggestions for this if anyone wants to like, email us or tweet us a suggestion?

Sunflower:

Yeah you can send us like a not formal question.

Foxglove:

Yeah the weirder the better.

Sunflower:

Yeah send us these little weird ones, because we're gonna run out.

Sage:

Nonsense. The Internet exists.

Foxglove:

Dangerous.

Iris:

I could go if nobody else has something prepared.

Sunflower:

Do it.

Foxglove:

I have one prepared but I'm saving it.

Iris:

Saving it. Oh, yeah. to torture us. Okay. Yeah, I decided to theme mine with Would You Rather's is because we didn't do any Would You Rather's in the first episode, so my first Would You Rather, super small short one to start us off. Would you rather hear the good news or the bad news first?

Sage:

Ooh.

Foxglove:

Bad news, every time.

Sunflower:

That's a good question, though. It depends. Like how bad is the bad news?

Sage:

I don't think it's that specific a question.

Foxglove:

I would always rather hear the bad news first.

Sunflower:

Well, I just like, if it's like, if it's like a death in the family, I sure as fuck don't want good news and then bad news. But like if it's like, Hey, they were out of stock of this thing, but I got you your favorite one, I probably want the good news first of like, I got you this really nice candy, it's not your favorite one because they were out of it, but I did get you this one.

Sage:

I'm like, I'm like the other way around. Because I would always rather like lead off with the bad news and just sort of like, take that accept it and then be left with the memory of the whatever good news there is. Just like, let me end on that note.

Foxglove:

Exactly.

Sunflower:

That's fair.

Iris:

Yeah, I feel like I tend to lean more towards, I want the bad news up front, because I'm an anxious person. And especially if somebody comes at me with like, Good news, bad news, and then tries to lead with the good news, I'm like, No, no, no, no, no, you go back. What's the bad news first. But no, I think it really does depend on like, the severity, because you can like, come in with some some like good news to soften a not so bad bad news. Like, and that can be really helpful.

Sunflower:

Yeah, it might make the bad news less bad.

Iris:

Right?

Sage:

If it's like super minor bad news, then it can be really funny to do it the other way around. It's like, I have this great good news! And the bad news is like, They didn't have this candy or something like that. Then it's just funny, it's out of proportion.

Foxglove:

Always want the bad news first, every time

Sunflower:

That's because you're deeply anxious

Iris:

That's because you're the most anxious bean ever,

Foxglove:

The knowledge that there is bad news will ruin the good news for me.

Sage:

That'syeah, you know, you really did sum up my exact feelings about that as well. Thank you.

Foxglove:

Yes,

Sunflower:

Yeah, that's a good summation of it. Um, I have a really non-serious question, because I wanted to ask a bunch of serious questions about true-crime related things. But none of my partners are actually that into my interest. So

Foxglove:

I know some things about true crime!

Sunflower:

they wouldn't know or have any interest in

Sage:

What!?

Foxglove:

I listen to true crime podcasts for you! Yeah, but you don't like, I mean, I guess you could answer like, what, what's if you could have one case solved, what would be your case? I think you made a compelling case for Maura Murray earlier. I would take that. There are some historical cases that I would love to get like, real confirmation on. They're not really like, you know, to some extent, like, jack the Ripper, or whatever isn't like, quote unquote, true crime, because it is passing into the realm of history at this point.

Sunflower:

It did still happen, it is still true crime.

Foxglove:

But like, there is some stuff like that. Yeah, exactly. I think your case for Maura Murray earlier was good

Sunflower:

Yeah, that one's just an impressively weird ust because the window there is o small. disappearance that I still can't like, wrap my head around. There are a couple more that like I personally want answers to, but

Foxglove:

Or Madeleine McCann, purely because I want to know how, like, how inept her parents actually were.

Sunflower:

I have an answer for Madeleine McCann. And we'll do it off mic because it's dark as shit.

Sage:

I think I'm going to go with Dyatlov Pass Incident, because there's just so many confusing things about that case, and what happened to those hikers and I know all of this is really niche listeners, but bear with us. We'll get to stuff that you don't have to Google every scrap of soon.

Sunflower:

These are well known things!

Iris:

I don't have any, and also, just as a reminder, we did cut a solid four minutes out of our last episode about serial killers that made it into our bloopers. So here's a small plug, if you want to listen to that, go on our Patreon.

Foxglove:

Listent o us literally just get bullied by Sun for our lack of knowledge about true crime for four and a half minutes straight. I edited that blooper today.

Sunflower:

It's just a really deep interest to me. I think personally, the Maura Murray case, I would really want solved. I also really want to know what happened to JonBenet Ramsey. I want to know, I just do. Yeah, okay. We'll

Iris:

You said you had a non-serious question?

Sunflower:

Okay. That was good. That was good answers. I liked it.

Foxglove:

Do you feel vindicated?

Sunflower:

I had fun.

Sage:

I can, I can do one. I have one that I enjoy. What'sto each of you, what's the closest thing to real life magic to you?

Sunflower:

Oh, shit.

Sage:

Like what, what natural phenomenon or like piece of technology is just like so god damned amazing that it's just like, Yeah, this is actually kind of magical.

Foxglove:

I have a 'I passed physics' answer, and I also have a I'm a human answer. Which one are you interested in?

Sunflower:

Both

Sage:

Uh, human.

Foxglove:

On a on a totally human level, the Aurora Borealis is where it's at. And on a related note, the physics level is magnets.

Sage:

Oh, God. Yes. Ordinary magic.

Foxglove:

I was only forced to survive two semesters of physics. If you like physics, I fucking salute you, you are a creature unlike anything I have ever known in my life. God be with you. I don't want to do physics ever again. But I got far enough to know that as soon as the, And how does the magnetic field effect this? question comes out, you just go home. That's the end of your day. You just go home.

Sage:

Iris, you look like you saw a ghost. You OK over there?

Iris:

I just

Foxglove:

Do you have a bug in your room?

Iris:

I know that, like we're gonna turn off the recording. And I'm gonna be like, it's that. I know, like, I have one. But like, my brain is just blanking, and I'm like, I know I'm gonna have so many that I'm gonna curse myself for not saying, so I'm having a tiny meltdown in the corner.

Sage:

OK, Sun, your turn.

Sunflower:

I have a lot of answers to this one. First off predictably, jellyfish. Why do they work What are they doing? How do they even function? I love them. They're gooey balls of love, and I want to hold them all. I think also

Foxglove:

They want to hold you too.

Sunflower:

maybe just generally on the same like light thing, because light does stuff to humans and everything, bioluminescent plants and animals.

Foxglove:

Yeah!

Iris:

Yeah that's a good answer.

Sunflower:

Specifically like what is that on the beaches? Are they krill? Are they bioluminescent krill or something?

Foxglove:

Algae.

Sunflower:

That shit, that's really fucking cool.

Iris:

Yeah, it does look very magical.

Sunflower:

Oh oh oh, I have an important one. Bumblebees, how do they fly? What are they doing?

Foxglove:

They've actually disproved that as a paradox. We know that science now.

Sage:

Yeah!

Sunflower:

That's fair.

Sage:

We have answers!

Sunflower:

It's, it still seems magical when they hold so much pollen and they're so fat. Oh, I love them. It's fine.

Sage:

I have, I have two while we wait for Iris to come up with hers. Finish her existential crisis. Just go like Criss Angel. He's a mindfreak! Anyway. Physics one, black holes, because as much as I read about them, I still can't quite wrap my head around the, the conceptual angle of that, but they've fascinated me from the minute I learned what they were, you know, the the fact that the word spaghettification exists is thanks to black holes, so we got them to think for that too. It's a good word. And the, the technology thing, there's a new kind of, well, I guess it's not actually new. But drones being a thing now, and being able to wear a headset that allows you to look through the camera of a drone and fly just like, like a bird through the air and see what the drone is seeing. That's just, that's a cool thing that I cannot believe exists still, that has developed literally in our lifetime.

Iris:

Yeah, I have a couple. I stopped having my little crisis if you, if you want, if you want some answers. I'm sure I'm gonna come up with better stuff after the podcast and I'm gonna fly into the room the second we turn off the recording and yell it across the apartment, and I want you to know that in advance.

Sage:

That's fine.

Sunflower:

We'll make a post about it. We'll tweet about it.

Iris:

But um, yeah, a couple of things I was thinking about. On like, a, like, large scale level. I think it's really like magical and fascinating the way that like, humans progressed technology at the same time, like on the level of

Foxglove:

Oh, like calculus.

Iris:

Yeah, yeah, that we just like came to the same conclusions like disparate humans all around the world coming to the same, like concepts and thoughts at the same time. Wild.

Sunflower:

That's really cool.

Iris:

On like, a more modern technology level, I find 3D printers fascinating. The fact that you can have nothing and then have something that you printed with a computer? That's wild. That'show do we do that? I don't know. I don't know how they work and they're magic to me.

Sage:

We were watching a How It's Made video on this just the other day.

Iris:

And I also I had this moment, that I like walked into the room the other day and told Sun about, where I just had this moment where I was like messaging a friend on my computer. And then I like picked up my phone and I like ran to grab water from the kitchen. And I like continued the conversation seamlessly by just picking up my phone. And I had one of those weird moments where I was like, Wow, it's kind of magical to be living in the modern day and age where like, you can just be in constant communication and seamlessly like, move between different, like technology platforms. And this wasn't a thing even when I was born and like now it's just such a normal part of my life.

Sunflower:

Also like, even when we were young teenagers, like texting really wasn't like a big thing. And now like, that's literally all I do all day. Well that's not true.

Foxglove:

100%.

Sunflower:

Yeah, it's crazy.

Iris:

Yeah. So there are some answers.

Sunflower:

Yeah.

Foxglove:

Am I up? Should I start with a regular person question?

Sunflower:

Yeah, why don't you start with a regular person question, then we'll get really unhinged at the end of this.

Foxglove:

Great. I love it. If you could remake one movie, which and why. You have like a minute to explain yourself so we don't get too in the weeds for this it is for me specifically.

Sunflower:

Fuck, you warned us about this and I didn't prep at all.

Foxglove:

I did warn you about this.

Sunflower:

I didn't think about it!

Foxglove:

I even warned you that I, you were going to need to have some stuff prepped so that you could rein me in when I inevitably went the fuck off about it.

Sunflower:

Well I'm timing you, but I have no idea what I'm gonna say.

Sage:

Can we do a trilogy?

Foxglove:

Sure.

Sage:

I mean, like, maybe just a series. The prequel and the most recent Star Wars trilogies.

Foxglove:

You are valid.

Sage:

Just like, I would love to see some people take another shot at that. Even if it was just like, Episode I just to set a better example. I don't feel like I need to explain myself. That's my answer.

Foxglove:

Nope, you're, you're valid.

Iris:

Gonna have some Star Wars fans coming at us.

Sunflower:

Yeah, that's okay.

Foxglove:

Listen, guys, three, like the, the movies are not coherent, or linear.

Sage:

One of these days

Foxglove:

There are three of them and they don't make sense together.

Sage:

one of these days, I am going to make you watch them.

Sunflower:

Oh. Okay.

Foxglove:

That'll be your fault.

Sage:

We watched The Room. I feel like this is not the worst case scenario here.

Sunflower:

That's a cult classic That is a very well known movie.

Sage:

So is Star Wars. So is Star Wars. More so.

Iris:

Reining it in. Reining it in.

Sunflower:

Okay okay hold on. The room is like an hour and 15 minutes though. That's it that's the only statement I have to say.

Sage:

And the suffering is eternal anyway next question.

Iris:

Reining it in. No not next question only one person answered!

Foxglove:

You're the only person who answered!

Sage:

Next answer, sorry.

Iris:

Okay. Um, I have a really silly one because I, like I'm not a big movie buff so I don't have any movies that I'm like Oh this needs to be remade better. What I want, is I want a remake of one of my favorite rom-coms, What's Your Number, but I want it to be gay. I specifically want like, almost any rom-com I like, I want it, but I want it to be lesbians.

Foxglove:

Oh my god, you know what would be good as lesbians? The Proposal.

Iris:

Yeah, The Proposal. I also want that one. I just want, there are no like queer rom-coms. I want rom-coms with nonbinary folks in it. I want rom-coms with trans folks in it.

Foxglove:

God that would treat me so right.

Iris:

I want rom-coms with like, a bisexual main character. I want rom-coms that show the people who like, like I grew up on rom-coms. Andthey're not gay.

Sunflower:

I want soft gay men who show their emotions.

Iris:

Yeah. Yes! Yes. Give me, there are so many, I have so many, like I have like a list of rom-coms written down that are just like, rewritten with different combinations of like queer folks, and it's just, it's all so much better, and there's so much hilarity you could get out of like, queer culture and gay jokes and like, misunderstandings from being queer, and stuff. Like, there's just so much untapped potential. Hollywood get on it. Hire some gay folks and actually make rom-coms. Thank you. That's my rant.

Sunflower:

The biggest mood.

Foxglove:

Yeah. I don't, I don't

Iris:

Also polyamorous ones!

Sunflower:

Yeah, give me polyamorous movies.

Iris:

Sorry. I'm done. I'm done.

Sunflower:

Are you sure? For realsies?

Foxglove:

You're done?

Iris:

I'm done!

Sunflower:

I, like, I have a hard time with this. There are like, there are movies that like could be better with remakes and stuff like that, but like, I don't, I don't know. I like bad movies. I like tragically bad movies.

Foxglove:

You do.

Sunflower:

Like, The Room and everything else Tommy Wiseau made.

Foxglove:

That's an unfair question for you specifically.

Sunflower:

What?

Foxglove:

It's an unfair question for you specifically.

Sunflower:

I like bad movies! I don't know, I like campy movies, I like dumb movies where they fucked up the whole thing. I like watching bad horror movies because they're bad horror movies. It's the kind of person I am. I would have liked them to make, there's a book series called Fallen and it's about angels versus demons and a bunch of other shit. And it's a pretty good book series. It has like some problems. Ie. love triangles. Why not just make it poly, it'd be better that way. Then it would be like, a fallen angel and like the son of Lucifer and this girl dating and I'm real into it. Um

Foxglove:

Vastly more potential.

Sunflower:

Yeah, but they made the first movie and they were gonna make more and everything but the first movie didn't really do well. So like I would remake that one because it would be a really cool like full movie series because like, there's like eight books or something. And like I would take more of it. That's the best I got.

Foxglove:

Excellent. That's a good answer, solid answer.

Iris:

And we're supposed to rein you in if you get too off the rails, right?

Sage:

Oh, right.

Sunflower:

We're all answering.

Foxglove:

I would remake Days of Future Past.

Sage:

Yep. There it is.

Foxglove:

I dislike a lot of X-Men movies. I have a lot of problems with a lot of X-Men movies. Like truly watching an X-Men movie with me is an act of self torture. However, I hate the movie Days of Future Past so goddamn much. I feel deeply wronged by its mere existence. I cannot believe they made Wolverine the main character of that movie. I could write five essays about individual problems with it and they would all be 30 pages long and I would still have shit to say. Like, truly, I cannot believe they won't let Kitty Pryde star in her own goddamn narrative. I'm so sick of their shit. I hate that movie so much. I think that was less than a minute.

Sunflower:

It was.

Sage:

It absolutely was.

Iris:

I'm really proud of you.

Sunflower:

It was really good. I was gonna mark the time in the beginning but I didn't.

Foxglove:

It was the best comic, I love that comic run.

Sunflower:

Oh now you're over. You were really that close.

Foxglove:

I loved I loved days of future past.

Sunflower:

Now you're a minute and five seconds.

Foxglove:

Okay.

Sage:

I think there were pauses for breath that can be removed and then we can fit it.

Sunflower:

No no, those don't get removed. The panic breaths are part of it.

Foxglove:

I just, it's such a bad movie. It's both badly constructed and it is, it angers me on a profound level. Anyway, I hate that movie. I hate Days of Future Past and I hate it even more because it's a genuinely good comic.

Sunflower:

You're done. You have no more time.

Foxglove:

I'm done.

Sunflower:

You're done. You're good.

Foxglove:

Hey folks, you'll notice that this does not feature nearly as many questions as we said it would. That's because it got super long. So I cut the back half of the Questions section and popped it on Patreon as this month's bonus content. Go ahead and take a peek at it if you're interested, it features a couple of very reasonable questions and then me relentlessly bullying my three beloved partners for about 10 minutes straight. So um, go ahead and check us out. And next time, we're only gonna do one set of questions because this got very long.

Iris:

All right. we have a question sent in by one of our Patreon subscribers, Katherine! We answered the first half of her question last episode, so go listen to episode six if you haven't heard our conversation on compliments. The second part of her question was, What does giving feedback mean, as in constructive criticism, which society tends to see as telling everyone everything that's wrong with a thing rather than helping the person or organization etc, grow. So how do you give feedback. To Fox, just like last week, I think you have a very clear and concise formula for this

Foxglove:

I do!

Iris:

so I'm going to just hand it off to you.

Foxglove:

I, I'm going to mention first up that part of the reason I have, I talked last week about how I struggled a lot in social situations as a kid and I had to learn some schematics. And so I learned a schematic for compliments. And similarly, I'm going to mention briefly here that I have ADHD, which we've covered before. A common issue with ADHD is something called rejection sensitive dysphoria, which basically means that I really struggle to like, process my own emotions in like a healthy and productive manner. Because my brain can't like perceive time correctly, among other things. Um, so RSD means that if someone hands me a critique, it's much much harder for me to deal with emotionally. Without it, like feeling like a complete catastrophe. So I have kind of learned, A, I've kind of had to learn to take criticism, which has been challenging, but B I've kind of learned how to recognize unhelpful critiques or like bad feedback when I see it, purely because I had to learn how to like, parse it in order to keep myself from having like a meltdown every third day in college. So I think the key thing is to say that bad feedback, like not in the sense that someone is giving you negative feedback, but when they are doing a bad job at it. In my experience that generally looks like, if it's only criticism, with no suggestions on how to fix a problem, no indications on something you're doing well, andhow do I want to put this last one. The expectation that you're going to take their word as gospel. Like no sense of scale for how, how much merit you're going to put in their word versus another person's. And I think this applies even for something like a teacher where like, yeah, they are your teacher, it is their job to give you feedback and critiques. But if your teacher just tells you, you did this wrong, and then doesn't like offer any, like changes to make, doesn't follow up at all, doesn't like address the problem in any way, then you're just going to learn to avoid doing that thing. Likewise, if you're never told what you're doing well, for comparison value, you like, learn to assume that you're disastrously bad at all parts of a task. Especially because like, there are some things where like, yeah, you learn that you did it wrong, like math. Um, you know, if you did your multiplication wrong, you just did your multiplication wrong. But there are a lot of things like essay writing, where if you just get like a bunch of red underlines, with no notes, and no one will tell you what's wrong with them. And then you get docked 30 points on an essay, that's not helpful. You're not getting anywhere with that. Like, if you're going to give a critique, you have to articulate what's wrong, and how to fucking fix it. Like you can't just show up with a list of problems, you have to show up with some kind of at least the first step of a solution. I have some big opinions about this.

Sage:

This is one of the reasons that I love constructive feedback instead of constructive criticism, because it really is the whole package. Like it's not just, I am telling you all the things that are wrong with this thing that you did. It's some things work, some things don't, here's why all of that is the case. As with so many of the things that we discuss, thorough communication is key to everything.

Iris:

Well, and it really should be about balance.

Sunflower:

Yeah, and it's also like, feedback also entails this idea that there is like a whole to it. It's not like the whole thing is wrong because of a couple of mistakes. It's, it's a lot more of a like a taking a step back and being like, there's some good in here. Let's figure out how to make it better together, because there's like good things in here and you don't just have to throw the whole thing away.

Sage:

Yeah, that actually, that actually brings up one of my, one of the things that I reference a lot when talking about giving feedback, you're trying to make something into what the other person is trying to make it, not into what you want it to be. Don't let your vision override what the other person is intending to do with it. Try to make their vision shine. Don'tyeah, don't don't take control of it.

Iris:

Yeah. Especially with creative stuff, like writing or art, or that sort of stuff, like, especially the case when you're giving feedback on that sort of thing. It should be about like, the person who's receiving the feedback's vision being nurtured and grown, instead of you imposing what you would have done with it, because then you should just go do or write or make that art.

Sage:

Yes.

Foxglove:

Which is why like, part of the important detail about giving feedback about things is that sometimes you are not the right person to give feedback on something. I personally do not read a lot of like, I don't know, what's a good example, um, I don't read a lot of romance novels as a There's also like saying, like, I'm not an expert on this genre. If someone asked me to give them feedback on like the writing of a romance novel they were working on, I would be able to tell them like grammar, I would be able to tell them like, character structure and narrative structure. But I wouldn't be able to give them anything of real use on the novel as a romance because it's just not the kind of thing I'm familiar with. I would tell them to find someone else who was more capable of giving them that feedback. That's not a failure on your part. It's okay to be like, this actually just isn't my area. But you should admit that instead of just talking out of your ass, and just saying whatever you feel is right, because then you will probably fuck up. matter, and or I don't know, like the technical parts of it, but I can give you some, like, how I feel about it, or how it worked for me personally, but like, I don't know how much help that will give to you. Yeah.

Sage:

Another very important thing up front. Did the person ask for feedback to begin with, if not, do not offer feedback if they are not asking for it. Because it's extremely rude.

Foxglove:

People do shit for fun. People do shit for fun is the thing like, hey, if you're like at work, and someone who works for you made a mistake. Yeah, go ahead and give them that unsolicited feedback. Don't be a douchebag, but go ahead. If you're just like out in the world, and someone is doing something for personal amusement, they probably don't need you to correct their comma use.

Iris:

Yeah, and one of the things I also wanted to bring up is, when you do decide to give feedback, which I think plays into the whole, like, Don't give feedback to just like random people who haven't asked for it, I think a good guiding principle when you're giving feedback is, who are you giving feedback for? Are you doing it for yourself, to make yourself feel like you know something and that you like that you have, like the upper hand in the situation? Or are you doing it to actually help the person who's receiving the feedback be nurtured and grow and get better at the thing that they're doing because they've asked for your help. Because like, you should always be centering the person that's actually getting the feedback and not centering your own ego. Which I think tends to get in the way of a lot of feedback.

Sunflower:

Yeah, that's a really good way of saying that, of like, this is not about you.

Iris:

Yeah, feedback shouldn't be about you at all, feedback should be about the other person and helping them grow in a way that's actually constructive and not quashing them.

Foxglove:

Yeah. And I thinkobviously, like, if you are someone who, like me, really struggles to emotionally parse criticism, and like, has a hard time with it, I had to learn to do it, like, you're going to get negative feedback in your life, it is just a fact. Maybe see a therapist about it, I don't know. Um, but, for the people giving the feedback, there is a way to give negative feedback that doesn't make it sound like you're being unkind, for lack of a better word. There's a huge difference between being like, I don't like this, I'm just gonna use writing metaphors, because that's, that's what I do. I don't like this character, I think you should change them. Versus being like, This character doesn't seem like they work in like, this way, or they didn't work for me in that way. And like, What are you trying to achieve with them? Because it didn't seem like it was coming through. Those are essentially the same sentence phrased in radically different ways. And one of them is way less awful to hear.

Sage:

And one of them is also significantly more detailed in a way that is a lot more helpful.

Foxglove:

Yeah, like, I don't like X is really unhelpful. If you walk up to me while I'm knitting, and you're like, you know, I don't like the color you used, okeydoke. That's super great. Fortunately, I'm, I don't care and I don't have to care. But if you walk up to me and you're like, Hey, the person you're making this for is allergic to wool. Are you using wool yarn? That's a different conversation.

Sunflower:

That's also not feedback. That's general harm, like, management.

Foxglove:

Exactly. But it is still like, it is still essentially the same thing of being like, Hey, like, x way that you're doing Y thing might be a problem. Have you considered looking at it? But yeah, anyway, it's about paying attention to the way you speak, which I think is important across the board. And it's about considering why you're giving that feedback. And it's about making sure that you do have some positive shit to say. Like, if every single thing you have to say is a negative, you may not be the audience to give that feedback.

Sunflower:

Yeah.

Iris:

And be kind. Even with your, even with the negative aspects.

Sunflower:

You did a great job. I think that was a great segment. That was I think we should just call it I think that was really succinct.

Sage:

Yeah, think that about sums it all up. All right. Should I do the outro?

Sunflower:

Yeah!

Sage:

Yup.

Foxglove:

All right. That's been us, the Quaple. As always a big thank you to Molly Ofgeography for the use of her song Hanahaki (Bloom) for our music. Come find us on Twitter or on Instagram at atwrpodcast, at Tumblr at quaple-network, or even by email at quaplenetwork@gmail.com. Toss us a question or an advice topic or apparently, very short questions for our middle section. We love hearing from you. And of course, go ahead and check out our Patreon at the atwrpodcast if you want to tip me for my editing work. If you love our podcast, please share with your friends and leave a comment wherever you listen. And as always remember, we believe in you! Bye!

Quaple Network:

Bye!