📍  📍 Welcome to Your Weekly Breakdown, the silly and occasionally smart podcast. I'm Emily, an ex tech worker bee, mother of two, and my tummy is not feeling so great today and now you're trapped in a studio with me.

 📍 Aw, well, I'm sorry. We'll talk about it more.

You'll smell it later. I'll try not to fart.

 I'm

Caitlin. I am Fine.  I'm fine.

I don't know what to tell you. Every week we get together to chat about the cultural conversations and news that are happening around us. We'll make fun of the latest pop culture dramas. We'll rant about life's minor inconveniences.  And we'll judge each other's styles and life choices.

Maybe we'll even interview a guest or two. We haven't yet, but maybe we will. 

That's like a maybe in the near future we're gonna be doing that.

do it later.

So my tummy isn't feeling great, I got stung by a bee, and someone stole my flower pot. Are 

Are you being bullied by life? 

Yeah, bad things come in threes.

Is that how that works? So, okay. Well, there's my three. Why are you just fine?

just a little sleepy today. Just a little sleepy little bear.

Every day? All the days? Just some

just some days. I'm just, my sleep schedule's a little bit off right now, so I'm

You sound like a toddler. 

I'm very lucky to be working right now as an actor, and it means that sometimes I work at 5 in the morning, and sometimes it means I finish at 5 in the morning. 

 It just throws you for a loop. It feels like I have jet lag.

 Oh, but is it fun? A little bit? It's super fun.

Super fun. But it's why I'm also disguised today. Like, I'm just like you.  I'm wearing a hat.

Like you.

Well, I'm wearing a hat.

hat. I'm not today. I know. We switched places today. 

Yeah. 

Let's see what we wear next week.

I'm excited. Well, I wanted to kick off today's episode with two pieces of feedback. We got some feedback from our listeners and I love getting feedback because this is meant to be conversational.

We offer a perspective and I like getting other perspectives.  One was specifically around the dress. Recommendations? And this person wrote back Love the summer dress guide but only two of the dresses are available in plus size and only one of the brands is size inclusive.

Put some hot fatties in the mix.  Fuck yes! I will!  

I like

And the thing about feedback, I like feedback when it's, here's how you could do something better It's not feedback. If someone's like, I disagree with your point of view that's great. And I get those emails too.  The second thing about feedback, you can give me feedback, but I might not take the feedback.

Somebody can give you feedback and you can take it or leave it. That's the beauty of feedback. But in my case, I know these people who are writing me. We're still a tiny little shop. And I really value their opinions because I know they want the best for us and what we're doing.

 The second piece of feedback is a doctor's perspective on the breast cancer screening. We talked about  in the last episode

It's

so funny because I saw this person over the weekend and I hadn't yet edited our podcast She was telling me about another thing She listens to when she was like, I really hate it when people start Talking about things they aren't experts in and I was like, oh, shit.

oh shit. Oh, 

And we don't often. this podcast is meant to be conversational. But what she said really hit home after she listened to the episode. Hi, she's listening now because she's walking to work and that's when she listens to it. Love you. She said personal opinion This is an area of medicine that is ripe for black and white thinking, and news reporting mirrors that. Digging into the broader health care equity issues isn't sexy or clickbait. And I was like, I don't want to be sexy or clickbait. That's not what we're going for here. So she continued, she said, I'm all for advocating for yourself, but sometimes there is more context.

She said, it's not just about anxiety and stress. So you and I, when we were very casually talking about this report that came from the breast cancer screening task force, we flippantly said, Well, I'd rather know than be anxious.

When we were talking about should the age be 50 or should it be reduced to 

40. That's

right. 

Yes, so, it's way too black and white and overemphasizes the anxiety piece, which she said makes so much sense.  said, since the healthcare system is essentially like standing in a line, it's also about equity. Unnecessary screening delays necessary screening. Duh. And if we really think about it, and if she'd been here at the table, she would have said that and we would have been like, Oh, absolutely, we totally get it.

And we're just, talking out of our asses here a lot of the time. That's why I like this 

Me too. 

 We actually know a lot about breast cancer risk stratification, since it's so common, and thus research is so well funded.  She added context to that article. She said the reason they did the review in the first place and then said provinces decide is because it would be taking away something that the provinces had already endorsed. So provinces, some of them had already endorsed the 40 and they didn't want to take it away.

And so I was like, Oh my gosh, I don't want to be giving, misinformation. And she clarified, she said, I don't think you're giving misinformation, you're giving snippets on a very big issue. And so I think that's something to take into context that all of our listeners should.

Keep in mind is that you and I are reading these things. We're having a conversation about them. It's never going to be the full picture.

No, if anything, it caught our attention and it made us curious and that's why we're leaning into 

it.

Yeah,  so we want you to engage in that conversation as well.

She also added, which I do respect very much. She said  I have a really hard time when my patients show up and demand something from me. And I really get that for every single day in my tech career, someone else told me how to do my job who had no business telling me how to do my job.

And I can only imagine trying to be in the medical field and people coming in with their web MD or like Google doctor, like that. That would grate me, so I completely get that. Anyway, I really appreciated her perspective on it. 

I'm very open to someone sharing their thoughts, sharing their knowledge with us so that we can then do this exact conversation, which is to say, by the way, the thing we said last week, I think we were talking out of our ass a little bit because we didn't know everything.

Well, no, we

always talk out of our ass.

No, we're not talking out of our ass. We read a thing that impacts us directly, and  we're normies.  We're not doctors. And we got this information, it was confusing, and by putting it out there and conversing with people in our community about it through a podcast, I know that doesn't sound like a conversation, but it's meant to be.

Will say, anything about on the podcast 

Our source or reference for the conversation is in the show notes. So we always make sure to include this article that we're referring to. So if you are curious and want to go read more, there's bound to be more information. 

Speaking of titties. 

speaking of Yes? Boobs!  This is our second boobs

I talk about boobs all the time. Nicola Coughlin, who plays Penelope Featherington in  is out doing a press tour for part two of season three.

So Netflix dropped part one last month, they dropped part two this week.  And Nicola Coughlin has this quote out that's just going fabulously viral and it's wonderful and I wanted to read it to you. 

Please.

She said, it is hard because I think women with my body type, women with perfect breasts, we don't get to see ourselves on screen enough.

I'm very proud as a member of the perfect breasts community. I hope you enjoy seeing them.

 Right? 

 Talk about saying it with your whole chest.

. That she also took a spin on it. There's a bit of a wink that she's saying that she's like, everyone's going to first of all say like, Oh, she's not as thin as other actors.

But what she's saying is, I know it must be hard to see me naked because my breasts are just so 

Yeah, 

and it's true, we don't see a lot of, I mean her breasts are genuinely perfect. I put her in Kate Winslet. We saw her boobs in Titanic.

we did. I do love a natural breast. I don't know why. Do I get to have an opinion on what kind of breasts I like? Yeah, sure I can. I have a taste for breasts.

That's a t

Speaking of talking out of your ass. My son he would have been four or five.  He says, Mommy, your breasts look like 

a ski slope. And I was like, they do. And I quite like them that way.  I don't wear a padded bra. I like my little, 50s bra. Yes. I don't know.

I don't need 

I don't need

them to look round like a melon. I like an au naturel boob. In all their glory.

Tell me about it. Speaking of, Nips is here today. She has no bra 

not even wearing 

I can't, 

really, here, I'll put the

strategically. The little tie strategically

little ties strategically over my

love it.  Have you caught up on

Bridgeton? Okay. I'm trying. I tried. I just don't think it's my jam.

Okay, so this is interesting. Rose McMacken, who wrote the great piece on funhouse feminism of Crystal Heffner for Hard Copy

magazine, she's written now a second piece, because she's so great, on why Bridgerton is the Existential cope we need.

And my favorite quote from it is this, The cultural pendulum has swung fully in the opposite direction. And here she's referencing some of the grittier shows and movies we used to watch. This is an era of visually stimulating but emotionally low stakes pop culture that copes with contemporary political horror by offering a corrective version of reality.

Can you explain that to me please? 

Yeah. It's 

It's beautiful and lush, and there's romance, and it's sex, and there's always a party, and there's no real political struggle. The only struggle is getting married.  Shonda Rhimes created the series for Netflix based on the books. , the racial equality that's represented is really refreshing. The hardest part is like, whoever will my husband be?

 There is a blissful simplicity in that. I was talking to the same doctor friend, it's like really smart people watch really dumb television. Yeah.  This is the same thing. I think that's what Bridgerton is for a lot of people. For me, it's beautiful and lush and it means nothing.

The emotional stakes are low.

Well, that's how I feel about reality TV. 

Don't watch reality

okay,  let's say I'm watching summer house on Bravo. And it's just about these people who work in New York Monday to Friday. And then on the weekends, they got a shared house in the 

Can I be on the show? 

Exactly. 

That sounds

So you're just watching people have nice weekends together and party and drink and throw parties. And sometimes they get into fights.

Yeah, that makes sense.

And then it's great because you go, these people are idiots, what they're fighting about.

So do you, you watch reality TV? Okay,  a lot of the other women specifically, some men who are doing podcasts like this or writing newsletters, it's so pop culture heavy and often it's like a reality TV 

recap. 

Recap. Yeah. 

It's so funny because Bridgerton is comfortable.

I find reality TV stressful. I think I get a little too invested in other people's drama. 

But Bridgerton is so fictionalized and so out there as a stylized show that you're able to go, it's just a show.

Whereas reality tv for you, you're saying it's very clearly these are real people that have been scripted and produced, but

it's just too real. 

I've been watching Survivor with the kids. There was a cartoon version of a very Survivor esque show and they were telling me about it. And I was like, what the fuck is this?  Let's just watch the real thing. So we went back and I think I paid like six bucks for season 12.

 And I'm so invested. I go to sleep thinking about the strategy I get like really invested. So I think I can't watch reality TV.

Okay, but I do love Survivor.

you? Yes,

I love 

There was a recap in Vulture, on all 46 seasons. And it was the highlight of each season, which was pretty 

Sometimes

I watched YouTube clips of survivor villains getting voted off, like at their final tribal council, watching these villains get blindsided or get voted off in a very like dramatic way. I love those.

just, this morning, was talking to the kids about that. I said, every, even though it's reality TV and these are real people. The producers, help shape the show, so there are heroes, there are villains, there are character arcs. So I'm sure you remember, if you love Survivor, do you remember Season 12?

So I've got like Shane, Ceri, Terry, fuckin Terry! Oh my god, he's so annoying!

God, that was a long

time 

was so long ago,  would you go on a reality TV show? Ever. That's so funny. So

I did have a gig once, and it didn't end up happening, but there was, oh, did I sign anything? No, I can talk about it. So I was hired at one point to be a bit of a mole on Big Brother.

 Ooh. So

I was going to go on Big Brother, live in the Big Brother house, but I would be working for the producers of the show and the writers of the show. every time I would go in for my confessional, I would essentially be meeting with producers and be like, what do you want me to do next?

They'd give me a little earpiece you wouldn't be able to see.

 And I'd have to just live in the Big Brother house.

You're an air quotes  

Everyone thinks I'm there just to win Big Brother. But in reality, I'm a hired actor

I assume there's that on almost every show.

There's got to be 

 There was a really great TV show called

Unreal.

Oh, it was a scripted show  that was making like a bachelor. Yes. It

I liked that. I'm an ops person. I like the behind the scenes, that kind of stuff. So that was a very satiating show. I remember it was a long time ago. I only watched the first season.

That's more satisfying to me than the reality show itself.

That was actually a great show.

I would do reality television.

You would?

Yeah, my kids were horrified. They were like, you'd be great at Survivor, Mommy.

And you know what? That was the nicest thing they've ever said to 

me.

I have a friend who submitted for Survivor. So hopefully she gets  

You should do it. 

Who,

would feed the children? 

 In the end. I never went on Big Brother.

I chickened

out. You chickened out? Yeah. Why?

Because the idea of having to be the reason to make other people uncomfortable, I just couldn't do it.

That is my dream 

We're

so different in that way.  I got so sweaty when they were like, Yeah, you'd be great for it. I got so red and so I was like, I

Okay, next time be like, call my crazy friend Emily. She loves stirring other people's pots. This was like 10 years ago, to be fair.

So I don't know if they still do it. But I also know that for shows like American Idol or America's Got Talent or X Factor or whatever it is.  There's people who will do all the America's Got Talents or Got Talents is what they call them. And they'll do the circuit of the Got Talents with their act knowing they're never going to win the show, but they keep getting more and more screen time.

How do they afford that?

I think they're helped by the Got Talent people. 

Huh. 

By

Cause that sounds like an expensive 

I

think Simon Cowell helps a little bit with that to make for good TV.

I had a friend who was on America's Got Talent No way!

As a plant to,  To fuck with the judges,

essentially. 

my gosh!

Yeah, Chris Wilson was on it and he flew down to L. A. 

He

played to this magician who just keeps giving the finger. And so all of his tricks, instead of him like pulling a rabbit out of a hat, he like pulls a middle finger out of a hat. And it just made Simon Cowell angry. And it made  Sophia Vergara confused. And apparently she just kept going.

I did not know we could do that.

I didn't  know!

know! 

said that Heidi Klum was boring. Well, I'm not surprised by that.

 You can't be everything. You could be beautiful.

Yeah, but he said Sofia Vergara was beautiful, funny, alive,

a savvy businesswoman. She has many a business. She's

doing alright.

now she's single.

 Sorry Joe Mangiello.

He's a fine, fine man. Yes. That, again. Beauty's one thing. 

But can you live with him?

 No. 

I have to admit I've been struggling a bit lately with kind of self doubt around hard copy the newsletter, the podcast, 

there's so many large, incredibly successful media companies out there with huge teams and huge budgets. And I'm just like,  it's me and no money. Let's go. A little scrappy. I love to take my hobbies too far.   Defining what success is could be a whole other episode. But, I thought this was a really interesting quote. It's about rejection. Okay, great. And you, as an actor, 

PhD in 

rejection. Better than anyone. Right. About rejection. Right now with the job market, people are considering changing careers, people are really, trying to elevate their careers we always have to ask for something.

And I think dealing with rejection, I don't know if we're all cut out for it these days. And so this quote really stuck out to me. I'm gonna read the quote,

and then I might ask you for some advice, if that's okay with you.

There is no penalty for asking. You can apply to the same thing 10 times and no one's going to get mad at you.

You can advertise something on the internet and even if 99 percent of people think it's dumb, 1 percent might think it's really cool. You are always doing things for the one person who will give you the yes. And often one yes is enough. I've been trying to reframe my relationship with rejection from avoiding it to literally looking for rejection, going out there and risking the nose.

I've been doing it in really silly ways, like trying to buy a staff only hoodie at my favorite grocery store and walking into restaurants where there are no reservations available, but also in meaningful ways, like proposing writing collaborations and meeting new people. It's so fun. I can't believe I've been running away from it for so long.

And it just made me be like, oh, going out and Seeking the no's.  I'm so laser focused. When I'm focused, when I'm on. I'll overthink it to death. And so now I've started this thing, being like, Yeah, I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna throw this all together.

I can fucking do this. And now I'm like, This was the dumbest fucking thing I've ever done. Done. I'm never going to make this into what I actually want it to be.  I'm dealing with my self doubt,  my own  self rejection of the idea that I'm trying to pursue. And, I've dealt with a lot of rejection and I can't say I'm really great with it.

I focus on the one no instead of, like, all the great things. It's the same as, the one shitty comment from somebody versus the,  hundred really great things that people have said about our podcast. Please rate and review. And so I wanted to ask you about rejection because you're an actor.

Who better to comment on it than you?

Yeah, they say there's an acting that you have to audition ten times to book one thing.

I That sounds like a really good ratio. a lot. Yeah, it's I was gonna closer like 30 things to book one thing, or it could be 20 things.

That's the thing. There's no way of knowing what's going to click. I've tried to not take the no's personally. So they're not saying no to me. They're saying, no, this doesn't work.

Okay. So, depersonalizing

depersonalize it in a very big way. I also don't take the wins personally.  So if I do book something, I don't go, See, I deserve this, I earned this is mine to get.

That sounds very detached.

Yeah, I treat it like a business.

I treat it as though it's not me, it's a thing that I'm doing. So people aren't saying no to me as a human being, they're saying, this business doesn't work, or this collaboration doesn't work.

And I go, okay, good, thanks for letting me know. If I don't get a part.

I try and think of myself as an ocean. It's very woo woo. 

\ You know I love a woo. Love me some science, but really love some 

The thing is about an ocean is that there are places in the ocean that are great for swimming. And they are welcoming to families and there's beaches and it's beautiful.

And there's also parts of the ocean that will fucking kill you. And that sailors fear. And that you don't know the depth of that ocean. And actually what's down below, leave it alone. Don't go looking there. So I try and think  I'm all things. I got the part, but also I didn't get the part. I spent a year and I didn't work in acting.

I did not book a gig for a year,

which 

you, did that not fuck with you?

of course it made me rethink these choices of is this sustainable? Is this actually what I want to be doing too?

There's  a little doubt there.  Wait a minute.

This is what I like  obviously I need to rethink this

But I didn't want to, I didn't rethink it because people were saying no to me. I was rethinking it because I realized I didn't have the power I wanted to have.

I don't know if I know what you mean



I didn't like the feeling that someone else could decide when I worked or not.

Oh Yes

that's what I mean by power. I didn't like the idea that my career was in someone else's hands. 

God, but that's every single person in the first at least five years of their career. If not, ten.

Sure, and I'm at my 20 year mark, so I had to sit down and you and I have spoken about it where I was like, that's it, I'm quitting acting,  and then a month later I would say, so I'm working on a show, and you're like, I thought you were quitting.

I was like, I was then, and now I'm not. 

So what, tell me about the in between there. How did you go from  fuck this to I'm working now? Was that an opportunity? Was that luck? Somebody opening a door?

Was that changing your attitude, expanding your options? What is it going to take for me to suck it up? 

Well this is what I love about this quote is that I just said yes to everything.  Someone wants to do a thing, I say yes. Yeah. Someone says, let's make a podcast. I say, yes, let's do it. 

is right. And I just started saying yes to 

To

be fair, I was on you about this for like two years.

I gently was poking you. Being like, what if? What if we did?

if this podcast had been made two years ago? I dunno if it would be this same iteration.

No, it wouldn't.

So I just started saying yes to everything, but I think the big thing with rejection is that I had to learn that it wasn't. Oh, and I still struggle with it because I go, Oh, they didn't like the way I looked. Oh, they didn't like the way I

to ask you about that. Yeah. Cause you, you aren't a seven foot tall, 120 pound model.

No. My parents have no connection to the industry. you have to go, well then who am I doing it for? It's for me. I wanna do it.

It's my calling. Talk about taking your hobbies and turning them into a profession. I just love to act to the point that I was like, I guess this is what I do now forever

Oh, I love that though. That's so inspiring. We get such a short time here on earth. Yes. That, if you have the opportunity and it's there and you can make it work, why wouldn't you do what you love?

And don't you also feel like sometimes there's, if there was another option, that'd be great. If there was something else that I was passionate about, Oh, that'd be awesome. In your situation where you're like, wouldn't it be great if you just loved to be an accountant?

 I was an accountant.

You were? And did you love it? 

See, but wouldn't it be great if you did?

But see, this is the thing.  Are you one of those people that is like, follow your dreams, do the thing you're passionate about?

Yeah. 

which is so funny because I'm such a daydreamer, but I also can be Very pragmatic.  We have to pay the bills.

Yes.

I

could use a bit more of that, I think. I just always assume that things are gonna be okay.

Maybe it's also removing what you think it's gonna look like from your mind, right?

Okay. To be like, I wanna be surprised by this.

So that's the hardest part for me because I'm the type of person I was considered once for it'd be a couple of years ago now, I was considered for this great role in a sporting organization, a sports entertainment organization.

And I literally started to  scroll Oh, I would wear these sneakers. And I would dress like this. And here's how I would fix it. And I like started doing the job and being like, Oh, they should really do this. This is before I even got it. Like, I will fully daydream the thing, and then start to go toward it.

Even though, like I'm fully delusional. 

Wait, why is that delusional?

Because you were living in a reality that didn't exist yet.

didn't exist. I wasn't even close to existing!

We have to see ourselves in situations where we're owning it.

I feel that when I was questioning acting, I was like, maybe I'll be a real estate agent, or I'll be a teacher, or I'll be a lifeguard, or I will just move into a yurt and I'll do yoga.

can just picture you trying to sell me a house.

Oh, I do.   I would be great.

So I struggled with that. A lot, because I had an idea of what I wanted to do when I was a kid, and then I went to university, I took the safe option, 

well, the idea that for a while we just we were hiding, you were hiding from rejection.

Yeah. I was hiding from rejection. It was safe. I also, I've got money stashed away. I can afford for a little bit of time    to try and do the thing I really want to do.

  That is capital P privilege. Not everybody gets to do that.

No, that's true.

it is a privilege to say, like, follow your dreams when people are like cool. Well, you gotta pay rent. 

But if you're living in your parents basement, or your rent check has just bounced,   you need to pay the bill. You gotta make some cash. But I guess don't give up the idea.

Like I really forfeited that idea for a solid decade in order to pay the bills, in order to not have the rent checks bounce, 

Just

Don't reject the idea fully.

Don't self No. I look at my industry of TV and film, and there are ways that you can work without having someone give you permission. If you want to be a background actor, what we used to call extras, if there are agencies that can find you work every day.

It's not the most glamorous, but you're on set, you're seeing what's going on, and you're getting experience while being there. 

Did you learn as you went? Or did you have great mentors and people explaining that this is how the world works to you?

I would love a mentor even now.

Yeah, it was a lot of learning, making mistakes, being mortified, driving home from set going, Oh God, you That's so embarrassing. They're never going to hire you again. But that's also not how it works. I like what about this quote is that. She talks about risking no's in silly ways.

Cause so often we get no's in ways that really matter. We're going for a job. We've had four interviews. We want it.

Yeah. You've wrapped yourself up in the dream of it for sure.

So the idea of practicing getting a no and then going, okay with little things like asking for a staff sweatshirt, or  Going into a hotel and going, Do you have any free rooms?

Oh, how about this? When you're flying, say, Any upgrades available? Ask.

Oof. Yeah.

I've asked about an upgrade, and I was kind, and I got it. Now, this was a few years ago, and it's never happened since, but it's the reason I'll always keep asking, and going, If ever you need to bump me up to first class, I fully understand.



Because 

I say it'll make room in the cabin for someone else. Maybe a few oversold. I know how to behave.

I know how to behave. I'll be a good girl.  I have awful, embarrassing memories in junior high. I would literally just walk up to boys and ask them if they wanted to be my boyfriend. You would? You 

brave! 

I was!  I think I got so traumatized in my youth that I was like, I'm never asking anyone 

Oh, that didn't go well.

well? No, they always said no. 100 percent of the 

For 

said no. Oh yeah, no, I was not.  Yeah, I didn't have a boyfriend. I had a couple. Yeah. not to like university. 

Yeah.  That was me too.  

I was, yeah, I was  a special 

case.

But you also had the ovaries to walk over and go, I like you. I pick you. Want to be my boyfriend?

And they'd all say no.

Cause it was fucking delusional. I know. It's so embarrassing.  

I love it. It's but isn't it so painful when you think about the things that you did I remember writing a poem to a guy And being like, this will get him, oh, 

Ooh!  In grade 8!

wrote him a poem.  And I think it really rhymed. It had a strong rhyming couplet. 

I just remember like giving it to him and then being like, what have I done?

You said grade eight. Oh, it was a hard time. I had a journal. And in your journal, you write things that aren't necessarily nice about people.  And somebody got my journal and everybody read it.

Emily!

Emily. Oh my

have written it down. Yeah. It sucked. 

There's a quote from the Real Housewives which goes, Say it, forget it, write it, regret it.

It's true. Yeah. Here we are putting out information into a permanent space of the internet.

 

Do you know what is the best 

  One of my favorite things, I get to spend a few weeks each year in PEI, and I stay at a tiny little cottage with no cell service, no wifi. It's bliss. And for a few hours each day, all you can hear is birdsong. So you'd sit in the screened in porch. 

Due to the flies. And you just sit there. And it is silent but for All the different species of birds.

Why is that so relaxing?

So it is a thing. It is  scientifically proven. Good. Science says it is very calming to our nervous system. 

And it alleviates both anxiety and paranoia in healthy participants.

And I'm not healthy.

it still

It's great. It's true.

When you hear birds singing and talking and communicating,

I literally, I'm so calm just thinking about it. Just imagining it. It's very meditative. I would rather that than silence. 

Why

is that

I have

have a theory in my mind as to why, but I'm curious what science says.

 It has to do with generally in that instance, you're in a green space. 

Check.

Yeah, and so natural environments, which are serene, provide refuge, and are rich in species diversity, as well as perceived as highly natural, are overall calming. 

So in this case, the study is saying, the result of this particular study, which I'll link to in the show notes,  may be more about the idea that you're in nature than the bird song itself, but my alarm clock. Bird song. Really? Yes!

I'm not a scientist, but this is my theory. 

love. Birds are singing because they're safe. So if there was a predator around, they would not be making any noise.

yeah, if a bird's freaking out, you're like, oh shit, 

Oh shit, right? Isn't that true? When birds go nuts, you're like, what the hell is happening? A storm's coming or something.

So you think it's like, very primitive.

I think it's very primitive that when a bird is singing, it means that there are no predators in the area. And they're just going like, who can sing higher?

Who can tweet higher? And it's very beautiful and playful. But if there was, let's say a hawk an eagle flying around,

I

think they wouldn't be so loud because then that would give away their location. 

Oh yeah, oh you know when the birds stop singing. Huh?

Yeah, we have falcons and hawks out east And you know when they're around. they will just fly down and grab the little yellow finch. 

It's quite dramatic to watch. And traumatic to watch.

My mom has a bird feeder in the backyard but we've just called it now the hawk feeder because  little birds will go and eat and then the hawks are like, yoink!  And there was at one point we were out back and my mom's like, oh no! I said, what? She goes, it caught the cardinal!  the cardinal.

I was like, mom, we got to get rid of the bird

I know we have this same quandary. It's like, do we just get rid of the bird feeders? You like watching the Falcons eat the tiny

No We call 

our own little zoo.  We call it

the animal kingdom because there's all sorts of species out there. 

There's a hierarchy of big birds. It's very interesting. But every year, It's a little bit different. Somebody different is in charge. The Falcons were there two years ago, but they were there last year. So, probably cause they ate all the little birds.

Ha. I love, I'm going

to 

that I love that I'm gonna look for bird songs

Oh, it's my favorite. 

I love that

it's very relaxing.

And I also think that article is true where if you're hearing bird songs nature is nearby. 

The comparison was the effect of urban, i.

e. traffic noise, versus natural, i. e. bird songs. investigated the effect on mood. State paranoia and cognitive performance. Hypothesizing Birdsong led to significant improvements in these outcomes. It's like, yeah, that's why people leave the city. Yeah. To go find reprieve

in the country. Yeah. Or rural areas. 

and even that a buzzing of a little mosquito  only if you're on a screen and porch, when you hear the bugs outside and you go, I'm okay.

I love it. It's my favorite part. Yeah to sit out there rain that's why when you have white noise It's rain or a thunderstorm or bird song like it is natural or  where there may be vegetation better air

Reading a book on a screened in 

Oh, you're describing my happy

That is just heaven.

what are you reading lately?

Right now I'm reading Mike Nichols A Life. it's a biography about Mike Nichols, who is famous from being one half of Nichols and May, with Elaine May. And he is a comedian, writer, director.

Okay. So, of the entertainment

oh, is this man dead?

Mike Nichols, A Life it's written by Mark Harris, and it's a very well researched, Very  well 

It's very well

very well written,

it is very well researched, don't cut that out, it's a very well written biography, and it's a very fascinating look at one of the most important figures in American culture, so, Mike Nichols,

when talking about this important figure in American culture. I have no idea who this person 

So,

Mike Nichols is a comedian and a writer. 

I would know him from

I said Nichols in May, but that doesn't really

ring a bell. 

ring any bells. Let's see. He worked with Candace Bergen, Art Garfunkel, Jack Nicholson doing Cardinal Knowledge.

Oh, okay. Okay. There we go.

He worked a lot with Improv. He worked with Paul Sills, who started The Second City. Paul Sills is the son of Viola Spolin.

It's also important to like TV and film, 

And theater and like radio plays.

I used to love radio plays. Why don't we have radio plays anymore? Should we produce a radio play? Oh my god, can you get some of your nerdy art people and funny people and I'll produce it for you? That would make me so happy.

He also did catch 22

Ah, okay.

Mike Nichols.

What 

That's the ideal level of success, people in your niche know who you are, and you've been extremely influential in your niche, but the regular Joe has no fucking clue 

who you 

That's perfect.

knows who he is. He did pass away in 2014, but he was also born in 1931. So give the guy a break. I 

a break. I

can't believe he left us!

He directed The Graduate.

 Oh, dude, start with that.

OK, he directed Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf. He directed The Birdcage.

 I know. He did Charlie Wilson's War, Closer.

Remember Closer? 

Natalie Portman. Clive O

Oh, Clive Owen.

Why is he so fine?

He's my type. Eric Bana and Clive Owen.  Those are my dudes. I hope they're tall.

Don't ruin it for me.

I thought you were gonna say, I hope they're listening.

No.

Anyways, it's a great read. I'm learning more and more about him. And it's just fascinating to see like what he came from and what he did with his life and how he found different people that influenced his career.

I love stories like that. Dave Grohl's was my one of my favorite reads. It's still up there. I listened to the audio 

audio book Oh, 

and it was wonderful because it's him narrating his own story and what he came from and oh, it was really moving and especially around art and creativity.

And so, I imagine  the Mike Nichols story and talking about comedy and theater and his early experiences would really, inspire you.

Yeah.

And he was it's funny. He wasn't born with the name Mike Nichols.

Oh, what's his real name? Oh, what's his real name? Igor

Igor  

That's not really his name. 

It was something Igor something.

Igor Pachovsky the guy from Sex and the City?

No, that's the, you're 

I don't know. The Russian dude.  He's a sexy tiny man. Woo.

Fine by me. A lot of those men are tiny.

And all, they're all tiny. 

except for Lee Pace

Oh, I know

six foot five. 

He does not like what you have 

It's unfortunate. 

He does not like what I have to offer. He is so handsome in the face. Andy's six foot five and he's a delightful actor. And his voice, all the things.

Ding ding. 

We gotta get him on the Quinn app. yeah. Him and Andrew Scott. On the same.

It's funny. My mom was listening to the podcast. She goes, who's this guy you guys keep talking about? 

Andrew Scott.

I was wondering. How are we going to talk about Andrew Scott today on every single, his every episode Andrew Scott. Well, now we should talk about Lee

Yeah, let's this podcast is sponsored by Andrew Scott. 

By attractive, talented gay men. 

it. 

Yes.

what are you reading right now?

I just started reading A Gentleman in Moscow, which I've somehow never read. I

think I've ever read that.

Oh, really? I feel like I'm the only person who hasn't read

it. 

I can see the

Yes. So they've now turned it into a show starring Ewan McGregor.  A TV  miniseries. There's all these different derivatives of like TV  miniseries, or special

 Limited?

know what any of those, it's on the television.  Yes. Sometimes 

it's longer, sometimes it's shorter.

There's a TV show or there's a movie. Anyway, A Gentleman in Moscow. I somehow hadn't read it.  It was a 2016 novel.

And it's set against the backdrop of post revolutionary Russia.

When would that be, if you don't mind me asking, because when people say things like post revolutionary Russia, for me, I go, okay, so can you put that into context of World War I or World War

II? 

Okay, so there were ten years, 1917 to 1927, where there was a transformation of the Russian Empire into a socialist state, the Soviet Union.

Soviet Russia. covers 1917 to 1922, and Soviet Union covers the years 1922 to 

1991.

After the Russian Civil War, which was 1917 to 1923, the Bolsheviks took control.

Okay, now I'm, okay. You got it? I got it now. Because all those words I went, I know that, okay, that. 

I know. 

know. Okay,

Not great with the years because the 80s were 20 years ago.

Okay. 

 They were 30 years ago. 

ago. They were 40 years  were 40 years?! 

years ago. 

Oh no.

This is a phenomenon for millennials where like the 80s were 20 years ago

So

we have no idea about times you ask me about a war and I'm like Couple years ago.

Yeah, I don't know. 

 I just love Historical fiction it is my genre and I try to not only read historical fiction because I like to Explore examine but I have I was on my rom coms and I did some thrillers and I did some Nordic thrillers, which were really 

fun

Oh like a joe nesbo

. No, mine was  S K.  And he writes these Nordic thrillers like The Witch Hunter, The Ice Coven, The Last Grudge, and Ghost Island, and it's a series. And I've really enjoyed them. There's a Male author, but female protagonist. And they're really fun. So I, I tried to dabble.

Which one did you like the best? 

goes

down?

Witch Hunter and it's the first 

one.

That's the one to start with? Yes. Okay.

Yeah, and I recommend it. They're fun to read in the middle of winter. 

I like to escape.

Me too. 

Speaking of escaping, I am traveling soon.

You are! 

And the most helpful thing I read this week, and I had to share it with you. Everybody's like, oh, here's how to pack here's this TikTok, or here's this reel on how to pack your carry on. Do you know what I don't want to do?

Is watch a video. I want you to explain it to

I want a list. I

it written. So, this great, very travel savvy writer. Allie wrote a piece on what she's packing for her Euro vacation in a carry on. And I'll link to it in the show notes. 

I'm not great at this. I'm putting everything in a backpack.

How long have you gone for?

 That's almost two weeks. 

Is it? Twelve days? It's almost two weeks. I fucking love it when you state the obvious. That's what I'm here for. That's my 

Do you want to know what  five plus five is? Ten.

Are you serious? 

I actually saw I

that for talking out of my 

sucking out of my ass I saw so apple showcase their new products and one of the things they have is on their iPad. You can write 5 plus 5 with your Apple Pen,

which are fun. It's mostly just a fun toy and equals and it will answer 10.   An interesting and helpful advancement in tech where you're drawing as if you're writing a math equation.

It answers the math equation 532 times.

You know, 17, and I'll answer it for you. Which is pretty 

cool.

I like that. Yeah. 

And then you still have to write, 'cause I, I do think writing is a reason why I can retain anything.

It's the only reason why I can retain anything. Yeah. Summer break's coming up. 

I'm not a super mom, absolutely not a super mom. And I know so many super moms, so I steal their ideas where I can, obviously. And so one of the things I do is every morning they have to work in the kitchen. A brain quest book, which is like a book you can get on the Amazon.

I'll link to it. They have them for the different grade levels, and it's just a workbook. Different puzzles, some math, some language, some science.  

For the most part they can do it on their own and then I make them write in cursive  I'm a terrible person 

Really? Do they learn cursive in school?

Yes, so they're at a school that still teaches cursive. 

I love that.

But I just think the, Practicing writing. Cursive or not, fuck it. I don't care if it's cursive or not, 

writing. You gotta write.

As soon as we let them on a computer, they're gonna be on a computer or a phone for the rest of their lives. So, we're gonna do pen and paper. It's also satisfying.

I want them to experience the joy of a big fat, a really great pen on paper. And the sound of it and the satisfaction when you write something and put the period at the end of the sentence.

I remember being younger and having a stationery set.

It was paper. Four by six maybe, matching envelopes. There would be pens inside and little gold stickers that you could put on the envelope as a seal.

So

So cool.

And it was my favorite, it was beautiful paper. And I would

Love good card stock.

yeah, write notes to people saying, actually I haven't done that in years.

 That's kind of a fun summer activity for the kids  make sure you get some of their schoolmates mailing addresses and send some postcards, because they do miss their friends.

They miss their school 

Yeah, and if, like you said, you're going buy some postcards,

Yep.

them some notes.

Yes.

You said packing for a European vacation in just to carry on.

I

haven't read the article yet.  What did stand out to you?

There are compression cubes. I'll also link to those. I'll link to the article and all the stuff. That we're mentioning here,  you can pack, an outfit in the cube and then you zip the cube and it compresses everything.

So it takes up much less space than if you didn't. People talk about rolling stuff. She talked about lighter fabrics. Don't pack denim. Denim takes up more space. Strategically dressing for the plane.  versus what you're packing in the bag. Do you need to bring everything?

She talks about e readers, no rinse detergent.

For your clothes? Like, for your undergarments?

For your under things primarily. 

Oh, is it called Soak?  one. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I

recommends that as well.

Cause then you don't have to pack 12 pairs of underwear and 12 sets of socks.

You're when I'm packing I go, Well, I better bring my running shoes and shorts in case I become a different person on 

on my 

want to go for a run. You're like, who am I?

This  Are you doing any big hikes? There will

There will be one hike I will do,  I'll do like the Princess Diana outfit of  some short bandies and a baggy T-shirt.

Yeah,  because that's also cute. 

Because then you're also like, well what if we go for dinner?

I'd love a nice shoe for dinner. So

I think I will have sneakers on the plane, walking sandals. And then one pair of leather slides to wear for

not looking like a schlub.

for when it comes to being economical with space in your suitcase. High heels probably take up more room. So just stick with the

Who's gonna wear high heels  

people do. I'm just saying, if you're wondering to bring the high heels or not,

six feet tall so I rarely wear heels  It sucks. I do miss them. My calves are very happy that I don't, but

I was in three inch heels this weekend

were

working on a movie. And it was this like big cocktail party scene. And I was wearing these three inch heels and it got to the point where, you know, when you do that thing where you just like, you try and 

Yeah. 

or you lift one leg up and you're like, Oh, that felt really good.

And you put it down. You're like, Oh, it's back. The pain is back. My feet are still messed up. They still hurt. Like right now, I, if I push on the part of my, the ball of my foot, I go, Oh,

Ooh, oh, that's not good. No. You should see somebody

It's too late. I already hurt myself.

 



Get, this.

Uh Oh.

Guess what the number two soft drink is in the United States right now? 

Diet Coke?

Dr. Pepper.

has surpassed Pepsi and is now the number two soft drink.



What's number one?

Coke.



Regular Coke? 



Dr. Pepper.

Pepper. When was the, I didn't know Dr. Pepper was still around. 

 Go into a gas station  look for a juice box for your kid. The number of beverages is astounding. I'm so boring. All that tells me is I'm

Well, there's just so much.

We are the land of 

Yeah.

and I also was shocked to hear that Dr. Pepper bombed Pepsi. Because I really did think , Coke and Pepsi  are the big ones. But did you know that Pepsi wasn't always called Pepsi? Pepsi? Pepsi?

No, I did not know this.

Do you know what the original name of Pepsi

I'm scared.

Brad's Drink. 

Brad?  

Pepsi was first invented in 1893 and it was called Brad's Drink. By a man named Caleb Bradham, who sold the drink at his, in his drugstore in North Carolina. It was renamed Pepsi Cola, and then just Pepsi, and went

through all that. 

and was it effervescent back in the day as well?

 I'd love for the mass population to have to test it now, what it was in 

1898. Well,

in 1893 it was Pepsi because it was used to treat or relieve indigestion. As in like peptides, or dyspepsia. Yeah.

Fascinating.

you ever just think about the names of things and you're like, why is this called that?

Root beer?

 

You're a comedian, so I saw this and thought of you Julia Louis Dreyfus, her recent interview. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.  there's some quotes around it, Jerry Seinfeld. Jerry's been in some hot water for some of the things he's said. The interviewer was trying to poke at her about this. And so she, she's saying  she doesn't buy the idea that political correctness is a threat to comedy.

She's weighed in on the controversial topic. She's insisting that this particular evolution in comedy is not just positive, but it's fantastic. And she's quoted as saying, if you look back on comedy and drama, both, let's say, 30 years through the lens of today. You might find bits and pieces that don't age.

Well, no shit. And so this was her interview is in the New York Times  promoting her latest film Tuesday, which I'd actually hadn't heard about love press way to go. PR people. She says, I think to have an antenna about sensitivities is not a bad thing. It doesn't mean that all comedy goes out the window as a result.

She added, when I hear people starting to complain about political correctness,

which is exactly what Jerry Seinfeld did. 

water for, That's what he, 

She goes on, and I understand why people might push back on it, but to me that's a red flag because it sometimes means something else. I believe being aware of certain sensitivities is not a bad thing. I don't know how else to say it. Sounds like a padded statement. Little kid glove. She wasn't like, Jerry, shut the fuck up.

What do you think about that, especially as a comedian? 

So there's still a world in which there are filthy, dirty comics.

There are still great comedians who are like, really inappropriate there are people who cross those lines and they're really funny doing it. 

There's pushback against those types of comedians or that type of

There is a little bit, but then there's also the sense, I understand what she's saying. I also do know that in the comedy world that there is such fear, you can't go to a show now and have a phone. Everyone's phone is taken away because no stand up wants to be filmed and then cancelled.  

It's, it is the fear that  something can be taken out of context, put on the internet, and then it's done. You're done. You're, you've been Michael Richards'd.

Cancel culture is not fucking real, and I can go through the list of Of

course it's not. I mean we're already, it's more that people get upset about 

Well, we need something to be upset about.

There's a lot of things

be upset about. You can be upset about anything! Yeah.

But there are some great filth queens out there who are incredible stand ups and they are, they're still, they're dirty, they're raunchy, but they're not offending

 I think of like Steph Tolove, who's an incredible stand up comedian and she's just known as like a filthy queen and she'll talk about everything.

But she, her intention is that she's also having fun and she's throwing herself under the bus.

Yes.

what is the intention? I think the problem with Jerry's thing of everything's too PC, he was saying it as a grumpy old rich billionaire.



So you're like, you're tone deaf, man.

You're also go make unfrosted.



So when people like Chris Rock when Chris walk when Chris Rock is out there, really offending people, what is the line of. Oh, it's a joke or oh, it's offensive.

how does a comedian straddle it? Who's a good example of who's doing it well? what is it about Chris Rock's comedy that has him under fire?

Or Dave Chappelle.

 He's even more provocative.

And is it that they're provocative? Are we too sensitive? 

 We're talking about the gray zone and living in the gray zone. And I think that's what this is. I do think people are too sensitive. Absolutely. I do think that if you don't like something, you should go look at something else, but I also think that some people are trying to be provocative to get views, and then you go, well this is, the issue then is that it's disingenuine for me.

The issue is that you're doing this to be smarmy somehow, to use this to be loud, 

But I think Julia Louis Dreyfus said it well when she said it's just about having an antenna out there and being aware of what's going on.

You and I, when we started this podcast, had a discussion about what do we want to talk about and what do we not want to talk about. We were self aware. And believe it or not, we actually did say, we're not going to talk about some things because we don't know enough about it.

So we don't always talk out of our asses.

I just wanted to talk about cancel culture because Kevin Spacey is doing his PR rounds.

Have you seen this? No. So he's, and I had a big debate last night with

a

friend. Around whether or not he should get to be on podcasts because he was not found guilty,

Right.

 Some people are like, Oh, the welcome reappearance of actor Kevin Spacey.

And can you enjoy art separate from the person and this, that and the other thing? Anyway, he's doing the podcast circuit of the. Generally white bros,  and is being re platformed, another example of how cancel culture is not real.

No,

Louis C. K. is on tour.

 I didn't know that!

he will be soon if he isn't already. He was on tour for, look at 

Did he admit to wrong, did he admit to wrong, look at the former president, who, oh god, I can't even think about the 

the election. No, can't think about it. Okay, and I'm going to say something a little controversial, which is that I think we have to separate sometimes the person from the art.

It's tricky, but there are some times when you can go, I don't know. Do I still love Annie Hall? 

With Woody Allen.

 Yeah.

And that's a hard one. 

were talking about J. K. Rowling, are people still reading Harry Potter?

Harry Potter  I think where I my opinion on that only goes so far as when we Apply our standards and values of today against art that was made in a different time.  And we go, oh that was terrible. 

I'm tricky on that one. I think it's easy to say, oh well, that would never fly now. 

And look at it. Don't just go, yeah, it's bad. You look at a movie, one person directed it. Well, who wrote it? Who edited it? Who were the producers? Look at hundreds of people that worked on that set.

you think about the Woody Allen stuff?

 I don't know what I think about that.

I don't know what I think. still thinking

about it. You also don't have to have an opinion about everything.

And you know what? I don't have to watch Annie Hall again. I saw it.

I'm good. 

If someone's out there attacking  versus making light of that's an art form right there. Being able to make light of something without attacking it. Shedding light on something through comedy I think is also really 

It's

also a sign of great intelligence.  Here's a good example.

There was a guy who just blew up as a stand up comedian,  matt Reif blew up. He blew up and then he got a Netflix special

and he got ripped 

so Matt Rife's first three jokes in his stand up special were disgusting and they were about I women and blowjobs and it was just, it was gross.

Hey, dum dum, you know who your audience is? It's women.

I know, he didn't realize that. 

You

know who liked all your posts and made you go viral? Chicks. 

What was it about them that was offensive? Because a blowjob joke isn't necessarily offensive.

They weren't funny, and they were at the expense of women.



The punchline was, You're a woman.  

 His funniest moments are when he's interacting with the audience.

Oh, so someone else is giving him also half of his material.

For me, it's the idea of being, like, being so unaware. Just be a little bit more aware with a Matt Rife. Who is your audience? Who is supporting you? Who are you telling these jokes to?  What's the point of your story?

I also know that people buy jokes all the time. 

what?

Yeah, you could be writing for someone else's special you can have joke writers You could have a full

I get that on like late night talk shows. That makes sense. They have a team of writers. Comedian, like a single 

Sure.

Well, they showcased that in Hacks, right? That Jean Smart's character hires Hannah Einbender's character to write jokes for her. 

That can never end well.  Interesting. Yeah.

So that's the other thing too, where you're like, did you just buy this joke from someone? Did you think about where this joke was going to be placed? It's not unheard of,  but it can lead to a sloppy set.

Look at Ben Affleck at the roast of Tom Brady.

What did he do 

What did he do at the roast of

Not much. Because he decided he was going to write his own thing and everyone was like, you should have just listened to 

the 

joke

Do you know why people started listening to Brad Pitt again after all the accusations against him? Why? Because he hired someone to write his speeches and they were really 

There you 

go.

Oh, okay, I see now. Oh, I didn't know that at the roast. I thought Kim Kardashian, listen, I don't have a lot to say about the Kardashians. Their influence is undeniable. But her speech at Tom Brady's roast was hilarious.

did you know she was there for the whole roast? Yes! So many people would pop in, do their bit, and then 

leave.

She's got the thickest skin. 

Skims is killing it. And I'm so glad that she didn't call it kimono.



Wasn't it going to be 

called

It was gonna be called kimono. And then very quickly people were like no.

No. Well, see, she was aware. She listened to someone. She Yeah, there's a lot of celebrities who will just throw their name on stuff. And you can tell the ones who put in the work and who don't, like Tracy Ellis Ross is putting in the work with her hair

company, Pattern. 

so good. If you have curly hair,

also you have

curly hair. Do you use her 

I haven't started. I've been looking into it.

Okay. Bye.

How do you know it's good? Because I've been looking into it and I've been talking to people who have curly hair.

I see. And My friend

Jordan is using it and she has very curly hair and I saw it and I was like, is that the Tracee Ellis Ross stuff? She goes it's  

but they have the reach!  They're obviously, they get it, they're like, I'm smart, I'm in business, congratulations. What it does is it means the little guys. Go outta business or the little guys don't have enough money to even get in front of the audience because we find it all on the interwebs.

And you just buy it. You buy 

the

space. Yeah, because the 8 1 8 tequila from Kendall Jenner is right there at the, she pays for the placement on the shelf. That is more on eye level. And it's weird now because as an actor you're like, you become an actor so that you can eventually open up a.

Alcohol brand. Like, it's this weird stepping stone of like, first you'll be a musician, then you'll get really successful at that, and then you're gonna do a hair care line.  It's the business of it all.

 We're so fucked.

Oh yeah, I think so.

You need to make it big.

For anyone to listen to this podcast.

 Okay,

pressure!

it. Well, someone was saying online, they're like, it's funny to see all these, , men who are now admitting to losing their hair , to promote their Hair growth supplements. 

 just came out and was like, I too have thinning hair, but now I use this.



We live in the Truman Show.

Oh.

Jax Taylor from Vanderpump Rules is the first one that came to mind.  

Wouldn't have clicked. One of the nicest things somebody said about Hard Copy Magazine and this podcast was like, they're not out there schlepping. Stuff. That we're not influencers. No. We're not people of interest.

We're not public figures. And so they feel like it's like  📍 the legit place for recommendations.  ,

 Ain't got anything in this game. 

Literally nothing. 

 I'm not showing I love showing up every week and doing this episode with you.



 Friends, thank you for listening. We are officially done here this week. Please click subscribe or follow or whatever the little button says so that you don't miss the weekly episodes.

We'd love it if you'd rate and review the podcast so

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Amazing.  Wow. Time flies.