Sarah Dineen-Griffin - Expanding Scope, Global Perspectives, and Leadership

Associate Professor Sarah Dineen-Griffin shares her journey from community pharmacy to becoming a nationally and internationally recognised leader in pharmacist prescribing, research, and education. 

Sarah is a registered pharmacist and Program Convenor of the Graduate Certificate in Pharmacist Prescribing at the University of Newcastle and has led the prescribing trials across NSW and ACT. Backed by $8 million in NSW Government funding, her research was to evaluate and implement expanding pharmacists’ scope to prescribe for common conditions, including UTIs, skin ailments, and contraception.

Sarah is Vice President of the Community Pharmacy Section Executive Committee of the International Pharmaceutical Federation and Director of the FIP Hub, driving global pharmacy innovation. Sarah was awarded the Beryl Nashar Alumni of the Year in 2024, and a Fellowship to the International Pharmaceutical Federation and Pharmaceutical Society of Australia in 2024.

What shaped her path?
It started early - working in community pharmacy at just 14 years old - and evolved into a career focused on improving access to care and helping pharmacists practise to their full potential.

What drives her work today?
A strong belief that evidence, collaboration, and patient safety must underpin any expansion of scope.

In this episode:

• How early pharmacy experience can shape long-term career direction
• Why research plays a critical role in policy and practice change
• The realities of pharmacist prescribing and expanded scope
• Building trust, collaboration, and safe models of care
• What Australia can learn from international pharmacy practice
• Addressing burnout and supporting the future workforce

From community pharmacy beginnings to influencing national and global practice, this episode highlights the impact pharmacists can have beyond traditional roles.

You can find Sarah Dineen-Griffin on LinkedIn.

Do you have questions about your pharmacy career? Then contact us or meet our team.

Transcript

speaker-0 (00:01.026)
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speaker-1 (00:26.318)
Hi everyone and welcome back to your pharmacy career podcast. I'm your host Krysti-Lee Patterson and today I'm joined by associate professor Sarah Dineen-Griffin. Sarah is a nationally and internationally recognized leader in pharmacy practice and she works at the University of Newcastle and is the program convener of the graduate certificate in pharmacist prescribing. She's also led major prescribing trials across the New South Wales and ACT.

and is also the vice president of the community pharmacy section executive committee of the international pharmaceutical federation. That is a bit of a mouthful. Sarah, I don't know how you fit all of this in as well as being a mum, but welcome to the podcast. Now, Sarah, you're an associate professor and a convener, but before we get into all of the work that you're doing now and what you've been doing previously, how do you actually describe yourself and what you actually do today?

speaker-2 (01:07.928)
Thanks for having me, Krysti-Lee.

speaker-2 (01:23.63)
That's a really good question. I'm not sure when I'm talking to my family, I even know how to describe it myself because every day is really different for me. I guess as an academic that involves naturally, involves research, it involves education. But I guess the roles that I've taken on over the last 10 and 15 years have kind of shaped the work that I'm currently doing in my role at Newcastle. So yes, I'm an associate professor and that involves working

across research, policy, implementation, and supporting the workforce through education as well. So yeah, I guess it moves across many different facets of pharmacy, but at end of the day, really working to drive the profession forward in expanded scope of practice, but also training the future workforce as well.

speaker-1 (02:12.438)
interesting because yeah I think everyone will remember being at university and having their professors and the lecturers but there's so much more to what you actually do than just lecturing at students.

speaker-2 (02:25.58)
Yeah, that's absolutely right. And I think now that given the profession is moving and changing constantly, I guess my day to day also is moving and changing constantly.

speaker-1 (02:35.598)
Yeah, exactly. That's it. But I'd like to start our conversation going back to when you're, I think you're about 14 or 15 when you started working in community pharmacy. Yeah. Can you share what your experiences were like at just 14 and how did that, I guess, guide you into becoming a pharmacist?

speaker-2 (02:56.12)
Yeah, so I started working in community pharmacy, as you said, at age 14. And since then, I've really haven't left. Pharmacy for me was my first job. And so naturally working after school, yeah, I guess I just fell in love with the profession and working my way up through various roles. I started as a dispensary technician and then moving to decide that I wanted to pursue pharmacy as a career at university. then, you know,

went to study and I think at that point in time, doing my internship, becoming a pharmacist in charge and then a professional services pharmacist, I realized probably about one month after being registered and working in community pharmacy for so long, I think it was around 10 years at that point that I thought, you know, this is a wonderful career, but there's also so many things that I can see that.

possibly need to change. And I guess that's probably what drove me to then pursue other avenues of pharmacy. So at that point, I started exploring, you know, undertaking my accreditation as a medicines review pharmacist. And it just so happens I applied for an education based role as a practitioner teacher at the time at UTS and still working in community pharmacy. And then I thought, you know, what is it that I actually want to do and how could I possibly make an impact?

broadly or more broadly in the profession and how can I change things? And then so that's when I decided to pursue a PhD. And yeah, I guess that has since, you know, really shaped where I've headed in my own career.

speaker-1 (04:28.728)
Yeah, absolutely. And it's interesting as you were talking, I was reflecting on the people that have the ability to make change in our industry. And I never actually really thought about it. But yeah, as you said, researchers are at the forefront. You were still working in community pharmacy, but for decision makers in government to be able to pass legislation changes in

what we were actually allowed to do, they need to have the evidence for that. That's not just because we think it's a good idea. When you decided to do a PhD, was there anything in particular that you really wanted to change? Or what was the topic that you did your PhD on?

speaker-2 (05:11.966)
Yeah, so I think that working early on in pharmacy and in early practice, I think that really taught me that pharmacy was much more than medicines. You know, we are, and as everybody knows, a first point of call for many people in the community. So I think it's about, you know, the way that we communicate our responsibilities and you really can see, I think, where the system works well and where it doesn't. And that's really what drove me in the beginning to

you know, to start exploring different avenues within pharmacy and how I could make, you know, an impact. think those experiences have really stayed with me in particular. You know, my early days in pharmacy, I think I had a really pragmatic approach to research and really wanting to support frontline clinicians. And that's really continued, I guess, to shape my own focus on the way that I do research, particularly in patient safety, how we can, you know, impact access to healthcare.

And I think also primarily the need for pharmacists to be supported in the workforce, but also on their, you know, on their expanded scope journeys as, their role evolves. So I think just coming back to the PhD, that decision really, I think came from a curiosity, but also from frustration in a way. And I could see that pharmacists were really capable of contributing far more within the health system. Yet I think at times strained by

policy and rigid structures. research for those listening is a fantastic career, particularly around the ability to be able to generate evidence to support change. And I don't think people realize the impact that, you know, generating evidence has and can have on the profession and also healthcare decisions and policy change, but also academia, I think gave me a real platform to be able to influence practice, but also at the same time, mentoring future pharmacists.

in their career through education. My PhD was focused on, guess in summary, short, common ailments. And for those listening, common ailments are obviously those conditions, common conditions that we see, low acuity on a day-to-day basis in community pharmacy. At the time, back in 2016, when I first started my PhD, there was a lot happening internationally around ways that pharmacists were providing structured services.

speaker-2 (07:39.544)
through community pharmacy for these particular conditions and were being given, I guess, support by governments, particularly in the UK and Canada at the time on ways that they could provide a more structured holistic service through community pharmacy for those kinds of conditions. So they were being given more tools in their tool belt, so to speak, to be able to help people with these conditions. So my PhD was focused on

doing exactly that, but in the Australian setting. So we took a lot from what was happening in international practice at the time and implemented a minor ailment scheme or common ailment scheme, if you want to call it that, I guess, to support a structured approach in a way that a pharmacist would consult with a patient for a common condition. So at the time running randomized controlled trial and looking at some of the evidence based, particularly from patient outcomes and the impact that it might have on

our communities and the patients that we serve, but also at the same time, looking at ways that it may support broader healthcare system change and policy change from an economic standpoint as well. So since then it has evolved and I'm sure we'll get onto that in the discussion, but it has moved into now what we know as pharmacists prescribing, using that same structure or similar structures that were in place as part of PhD to then now look at ways that we can support the rollout of pharmacists prescribing.

at a state and national level.

speaker-1 (09:10.328)
So with your work that you did with the PhD, did a lot of that work contribute to then what you started working on with the prescribing trials across the New South Wales and ACT?

speaker-2 (09:21.974)
Yeah, absolutely. I think my work really has evolved since that time, but largely the structures that were implemented as part of a pharmacy-based service through community pharmacy and supporting community pharmacists to do this in practice was largely the same when we're now thinking about pharmacists prescribing. So I've repeatedly seen over time really how delays in accessing care, particularly for common acute

issues as well as medicines access can escalate unnecessarily. Particularly when there's strains on patients, their carers, families in a broader health system. And I think in many cases, expertise to manage some of these conditions or provide that additional support to our patients already exists within pharmacy. And as I mentioned previously, the system hasn't always allowed pharmacists to act. So having those structures in place, be it, you know, that

consultation structure, the infrastructure to support through, you know, for example, through a consultation room, having a policy in place to actually support that change. The investment, be it through a remuneration structure for pharmacies or for pharmacists, and also considering, you know, what that will look like. I think some of these things are really important and critical factors that need to be worked through. And I guess some of early work has really informed.

some of the fundamental and foundational things that we thought through, particularly for the trials in New South Wales and ACT.

speaker-1 (10:58.142)
Yeah, absolutely. It's interesting. I feel like now if you look back at all of your work, it all makes sense and it all aligns to where you are now, but potentially at the time, you probably, did you have a vision as to where you think this was going to go? Or has it just kind of been like a bit of a flow on effect and okay, we've done the PhD, we've been doing all this work and then the prescribing.

and building that out. So even there was probably a lot of work involved even before getting to those prescribing trials that a lot of people probably don't realize went on behind the scenes. But is that, yeah, is this something that you've wanted to achieve and get to personally? Or is it just been something that, yeah, when you look back it's like, it's funny how this is all just pieced together and it works really well.

speaker-2 (11:46.414)
In a way, yes. I always think that you're your own driver of your own destiny in a way. I guess at the time I probably didn't see the impact that that work would or could have. And I also probably didn't understand purely because I was young and I had just entered the profession and I was I guess really hungry at the time to kind of get stuck in and think, is it that I could make that change in the profession more broadly? And I think the

The motivations have also changed over time for me. My motivations early on were around my own world, my own career. And I think that's changed over time. It's more now, I guess, around the positive impact on the profession more broadly. And I guess that's a natural evolution, obviously, as you get older and you get more experienced. But at the time, no, I would say that I probably didn't realize the trajectory that

I was on. At the same time, think there's a lot happening in pharmacy outside of Australia. I guess just reflecting on the evolution of pharmacy, say for somewhere like the UK or Canada, a lot of these things have been happening for 20, 25 years now in some way, shape or form. I guess thinking about how Australia has progressed in terms of pharmacy, it kind of all makes sense now, really.

But, you know, yeah, it's one of those things that at the time, no, I was very unaware of where I was going. It's very fluid, but that's not to say that, you know, it wasn't driven by anything other than, you know, yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

speaker-1 (13:27.086)
Just distance.

Yeah, it's important and I guess also interesting that you mention internationally what's happening and yeah, you're right. I guess you could say that Australia is still probably behind in some shape or form. But how did you start being like becoming aware of what was happening internationally? I know you do some work with FIPP, so the International Federation for Pharmacists, but yeah, how did you even get involved with something like that in the first place?

speaker-2 (14:01.184)
I think originally it was related to my research that, you know, to be able to present, you know, part of your research happening at a local state, national level at an international conference was, you know, seen as something incredibly valuable, you know, to be able to share and to learn from others across the world. But I don't think I realized until I actually attended my first FIP conference, which was in Abu Dhabi in

2019 exactly how similar we are to other countries in the sense that in terms of the profession. And in fact, I think I've realized that Australia is pretty progressive in the sense of pharmacy practice and our healthcare system. And there's other countries, for example, the Americas and in Asia that pharmacy is 20 years behind. There's other countries that are certainly in front of us in that sense.

as well. it's really a spectrum, I suppose, of where they're at in their own journey and others are in their own journey in their own countries, but also to understand what works, what doesn't, and how I guess things have evolved for pharmacy in other countries has really been instrumental in driving some of my own thoughts and understanding the opportunities that we have in the profession and also how we could better drive healthcare.

Yeah, so I've learned a lot. And since that time, starting out as an early career pharmacist within FIP, I think that has also evolved and I guess how I view and how I interact with others. And I've met some amazing people, not only pharmacists. mean, FIP is a global organization that essentially represents 4 million pharmacists across the globe. You know, I think just being able to learn from and understand others' journeys has also impacted my own.

speaker-1 (15:57.934)
Absolutely. And I think that is important for us to see and look at what I guess the rest of the profession are doing globally. So we don't end up going down a path, I guess, of no return and waste all that time and effort and resources into something where there's already evidence that it doesn't work. And if there is evidence that things do work, let's leverage that and work off that. just makes sense.

speaker-2 (16:24.844)
Yeah, it sure does. I think also FIP is a fantastic platform for bringing people together to talk about these things. So it's great to be able to understand where the profession's going forward, perhaps some of those opportunities that I mentioned before, but also working together to collaborate and share insights is probably the best part of being in FIP, if I'm honest.

speaker-1 (16:55.05)
Yeah, absolutely. And like I haven't had much to do with FIP. I am a member, but I haven't actively contributed in any way to, if I'm completely honest, but even just for on a more local level, being part of the PSA and other organisations, it is good to be surrounded by your colleagues and see what they're doing and see what's beyond the four walls of whatever you're doing.

And I'm sure everyone has that kind of experience where just sometimes you can end up getting stuck in the daily grind and kind of forget about the big impact of what you're having. I know whenever I go to conferences or events, invigorates me and ignites that passion again.

speaker-2 (17:43.67)
Yeah, absolutely. I always come home from FIP mainly because we've gotten to travel to another country and experience, you know, cultures and different people and they're just fantastic hosts whenever you, you know, you go over there. But I think also, yeah, I would absolutely agree with your sentiments that, you know, you do come home feeling very invigorated and, you know, I guess it's just what can I do now? What can I do next? Because yeah, I guess that it just, yeah.

It reignites that spark that sometimes in the day to day, it's a little bit hard when you're feeling a little bit stuck. So it's always nice to go and network and attend professional conferences, share your research and understand.

speaker-1 (18:28.526)
Absolutely.

speaker-0 (18:30.254)
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speaker-1 (18:48.172)
Now want to change your conversation a little bit to talk more around the expanding scope of practice and how different views from different stakeholders can have an impact on what you're doing. But then also how do you navigate that? currently as we're speaking, pharmacist prescribers are now graduating and they're able to practice in Queensland and will be soon be able to practice in New South Wales. But I'm sure in your role, because you're

one of the driving forces to make this change. There are some strong views from different stakeholders that maybe don't understand the value of this. And I guess this is where you can take your learnings from your own research and also internationally to help educate that. But how do you personally navigate, I guess, strong views from different stakeholders or anyone maybe in the industry that might be bit more cautious about whether we should even be moving into these spaces?

speaker-2 (19:46.104)
Anytime you challenge established scope of practice, there's always going to be resistance. I think that's inevitable. But I think much of it comes from valid concerns, I would say, rather than opposition to the change itself. So I think this work has really meant engaging with a diverse group of stakeholders. And that's actually where my time's been spent over the last three or four years. It's been having these discussions with the profession.

Most importantly, we've been having discussions with medical colleagues, the professional bodies, policymakers, think, and regulators, and there's so many others. And I think all of those stakeholder groups have slightly different priorities and responsibilities. So for some stakeholders, that might mean their concerns are centered on patient safety or continuity of care or role clarity, for example, where others might be focused on governance.

might be focused on accountability, risk management. And I think even within the profession, within pharmacy, there are varying levels of readiness and confidence as well around expanded scope. So I think what I learned pretty quickly when we started this work, you know, some time ago is that in order to have meaningful change, really has to be evidence led, needs to be transparent, and you need to be collaborative. And then I think

that for me, as I mentioned, that really has meant spending significant time meeting with all of these key stakeholders, I genuinely listening, co-designing models of care, it's very important from early on, involving all stakeholders in the process. And I think being willing to adapt to feedback throughout the process is really critical. And just coming back, I think just to those motivations, everyone has their own drivers and their own kind of, you

I guess, areas that they're focused on. for me, it was always really keeping patients at the center of all of those discussions. That's been really critical, particularly when conversations have become a little bit harder to navigate and to manage. think ensuring that we keep patients at the center and move away from those professional boundaries of focus and really focus on what we're trying to achieve, which is access, safety, quality of care. And I think that

speaker-2 (22:07.374)
common ground becomes much easier to find.

speaker-1 (22:10.09)
Yeah, absolutely. think that's a really good point. Yeah, focusing on sounds obvious, the patient, but like you said, everyone has their own area that focused on. And I really liked what you said that it comes from a point of valid concern. think that's really important because sometimes I guess when you are met with, I guess, differences of opinions, sometimes it's easy to get defensive and want to protect your patches, people say, but I think

Yeah, for you. it sounds like you really take the concerns seriously and then understand what those concerns are and how you can actually help to maybe educate them in a way that might make those concerns go away.

speaker-2 (22:50.286)
Yeah, I think a major part of that is trust as well. And I think you build trust over time. You build trust with the people that you surround yourself with and those that are involved in the process. you know, trusting the people that you're working with, being transparent about, you know, what you're doing, being collaborative about what you're doing, I think is a real key driver in, you know, making sure that this is sustainable in the long run. You know, we really want to make sure that that evidence

that we're generating is translated into practice. And at the same time, practitioners do feel supported rather than stretched in. And, you know, to be able to make this sustainable, I think it's really built on trust. think, yeah, coming back to the aim of what I've been trying to do, I guess, over the recent years is being able to help.

create models of care where pharmacists obviously practice to their full scope in a confident and collaborative way. But I think at the forefront of that is making sure that we're really driving home patient safety, we're really driving home quality. And I think the outcomes of what we're trying to achieve is really at the center of everything we do. So coming back, making sure that it's collaborative and that that is built on trust.

speaker-1 (24:09.614)
Absolutely. I think that's in no matter what you do, even if you think about just when you're a conversation with the patient in the pharmacy or in the hospital or wherever you're working, trust is so important.

speaker-2 (24:22.766)
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, we've, yeah, for the trials we've been working with, you know, a lot of key stakeholders and, you know, I've met with most of them pretty much every week, every second week throughout the duration of the trials. You know, for example, our medical colleagues, for example, our own professional bodies, consumer representatives, you know, all of the other universities. think, you know, making sure that we bring everyone along for the ride is, yeah.

is important, making sure that they feel listened to, heard, understood, that their concerns are heard and understood. But also I think working together to try and find the best solution is paramount.

speaker-1 (25:04.234)
Absolutely. yeah, the fact you even also mentioned consumer groups there as well. Some people may not realize that, you also are talking to the patients themselves. Now, Sarah, over, I guess, your career, you've been doing a lot of different things and been keeping very busy. I guess for those that kind of look at what you've done and what you've achieved, how do you, I guess, manage to stay grounded and to...

speaker-2 (25:14.562)
Yeah, absolutely.

speaker-1 (25:33.74)
find time to, I guess, switch off as well from what you're doing. Because if you're anything like me, I tend to hyper-focus on a particular area and I just focus so much on that. And sometimes it can be the detriment to things like my health or my family. Because I'm so passionate about a particular area. Is that something that is a challenge for you? Or how do you, I guess, manage? I really try to avoid the word balance because I think there is always a

sacrifice and things that you do when you're passionate about making change, but how do you approach that?

speaker-2 (26:08.834)
Yeah, I think balance means different things for different people. You know, I think at the stage of life that I'm at, I've had two children in the last five years. So when you ask about what keeps me grounded, I think that's probably my answer. Changing nappies and, know, of wiping their faces after they've had, you know, chocky or something, you know, is the things that keep me grounded. But they're the things that I love doing most. you know, when I'm not doing pharmacy, I'm spending my time.

with them and they're the ones that keep me grounded. I think it's super important, particularly as you start to take on more and you start to, you know, your career evolves is to actually take that time. Funnily enough, my PhD was in common elements and self care and sometimes I'm the worst person.

to self care, I need to practice what I preach because, you know, often time takes over and, you just sometimes become so, you know, focused in what you're doing and it's, hard to kind of, I guess, just stop for a minute. And sometimes that's the best thing that you could do is, is just stop and reflect and take a little bit of time for you. So I think, you know, setting boundaries, being disciplined with.

time as much as you can do and also prioritizing what generally matters, especially when you have family and kids, you know, making sure that you do just stop and take that time with them is super important. So yeah, and for me, it probably wouldn't all be possible unless I didn't have a strong network of people around me as well. So having a strong support system, having a strong network of colleagues as well, I think has made a huge difference in how I am able to manage that.

speaker-1 (27:51.982)
Absolutely. think that's a good point. Not just when you mentioned support networks and not necessarily just like your family and people that can help you in that setting, but yeah, the network of colleagues as well, where you can divide and conquer things as well and leverage other people's expertise and their passions. And then you can get things done, hopefully faster as well. Yes. Now, when you were talking about

You mentioned that it gives you the opportunity to travel overseas. And obviously when you see different cultures and the way people approach healthcare in different countries, that will obviously have a bit of an influence on you. But then you also mentioned that you're a mom, you've got two kids, and that has probably also now impacted how you see the world. And so I guess how have those two experiences shaped?

how you think about healthcare access and in particular pharmacy practice.

speaker-2 (28:52.814)
I being able to see other countries, particularly, I guess, in the global context, understanding how other countries, for example, have already integrated some of these services, new services, pharmacists prescribing into routine care. think some of those perspectives, as I mentioned before, really reinforces that we're all working really to a collective goal. And that is to ensure pharmacists are working to

full scope of practice. It's also, I think, bigger than that. I mean, it's fundamentally to support health systems broadly, and it's looking at ways that we can support primary health care more broadly. Now, that might not just be pharmacy. think that all professions have a role to play in enhancing access to care through primary health care and alleviating burden on other parts of our health care systems. And I think that is universal across the board in other countries as well.

So yeah, I think that being able to travel and being able to understand some of other countries' similarities as well as their differences and being able to take, I guess, the best of what they're doing and perhaps consider ways that we can implement it here has been really instrumental for me in understanding my own vision for the profession, which I think is important to have. I think it's important to have a vision.

for the profession and I think my work with FIP, but also me and my family just rounding out the question that you asked in the beginning was, you know, how has that shaped? And I think that's come back to shaping my own vision for how I see the future of the profession.

speaker-1 (30:37.927)
Absolutely. And so I guess what is your future vision for the profession? What does that look like?

speaker-2 (30:45.006)
I think my future vision is really centered on fully pharmacists working to full scope of practice, but working more broadly within primary healthcare teams, particularly in areas where there is real need. You know, we have a huge role to play in supporting access to care, particularly in areas where sometimes there is no access to care or there's limited access to care. I think this, you know, perhaps

overseas as well, when, as I mentioned with my role with FIP, we see some countries that, you know, they really, they don't have any, their healthcare is certainly not what we know it as here in Australia. So I think being able to provide an accessibility point, which we already do, but making sure that we enhance that accessibility point in areas that are of genuine need, be it, you know, in regional or rural areas.

It might be overseas in third world countries that really need support to accessibility to care and driving a profession forward in a way that we can do that is paramount. think that with expanded scope of practice and full scope services as we know it, think, you know, the profession has changed dramatically in the last 10, but even more so in the last five years. We really are taking on a lot. And I think.

Part of where I want to, I guess, see my own work and see my own research is really around that implementation aspect of making sure our workforce is supported to be able to do this in practice. We're making sure that the support structures are in place.

to do this in practice in a really sustainable way. So that might be that face-to-face support that a pharmacist needs. might be understanding the infrastructure that's required to be able to do this. It might be what are some of the things that need to be put in place? For example, is it, you know, policy change? Is it remuneration? What needs to happen to make this change sustainable in the long run? I've done a bit of work with FIP, particularly around this change and

speaker-2 (32:56.216)
the sentiments, I guess, more broadly around how pharmacists are feeling about it. And some of that has come down to pharmacists are feeling burnt out, pharmacists are feeling not as supported as they could be. And this is globally, this is not just localized to the Australian context. So I think that

We do run the risk of adding more and pharmacists burning out, particularly our early career pharmacists. And I think we really need to be supporting them.

speaker-1 (33:28.212)
Yeah, absolutely. I think that is a really important point to make because burnout is real as well. And we do want to make sure that our profession is sustainable into the future to be able to deliver all of these things that we want to do. Now, Sarah was starting to get to the end of the podcast, but I wanted to ask you for some of those pharmacists that are listening that maybe might want to move into research.

Where should they start? especially if like you started in community pharmacy, and I think there is a bit of a misconception that if you're a community pharmacist, that's not necessarily a pathway that you can take, but you're a clear example that it is. So yeah, what advice do you have for those pharmacists that might want to, I guess, yeah, take that leap into research?

speaker-2 (34:20.418)
think finding an area that you're really passionate about is important before you even start to consider, you know, moving into research and education. So for example, it might be that you're passionate about community pharmacy services. It might be you're passionate about health policy. It might be you're passionate about education and training of pharmacists. So I think finding an area that you would like to pursue and you're passionate about is probably the first thing that I would suggest. You might not know what that...

is just yet until you've had some conversations. And then I think that leads to my second point is actually start having conversations with, you know, leaders in the field around things that, you know, in terms of opportunities that may present itself, I'm more than happy to talk with anyone that's, you know, really wanting to, wanting a change and is considering or perhaps doesn't even understand what research entails or education entails. So yeah, I think it's reaching out and having some initial discussions with.

perhaps academics or leaders in the field around, you know, some of those pain points, pressure points where some of those changes could occur. I guess finding an area that you're passionate about would be my first suggestion. And then, yeah, like I said, there's always opportunities. So yeah, once you start having some of those conversations, make it known that you want to, you know, or you are interested in pursuing further studies. Maybe you're interested in a master's by research.

Maybe you're interested in a PhD or even an honors, and I guess just having a bit of a game plan as to how you're going to get there and what it is that you want to do is probably my suggestion. But like I said, I'm more than happy to have those conversations with anyone that is interested in the area.

speaker-1 (36:05.526)
Yeah, sounds great. So for those listening, we'll put Sarah's details in the show notes, but I'm sure you'd be happy to respond to LinkedIn messages as well. Sarah, is there any, I guess, closing comments or anything that you wanted to share with our listeners that we haven't covered off yet?

speaker-2 (36:24.246)
I think it's probably just to say, well, firstly, thanks for having me, Krysti-Lee. Yeah, it's been, you don't often get time so you actually can speak just, you know, genuinely and frankly about, you know, your own journey and things. So it's been really nice to share that. So thank you for having me. I think, you know, the profession is really exciting at the moment, thinking about my own journey and I guess where the profession has.

or has come from and has evolved even just in the time that I've been involved, which is, you know, 15, 20 years now. I think it's a fantastic time for people to enter into a profession. So if you're thinking about pharmacy, absolutely, you know, get involved because I think, you know, over time and it, yeah, it's only going to get better.

speaker-1 (37:09.506)
Yeah, absolutely. Well, thank you so much, Sarah, for joining us today. And if you've got any questions for Sarah, we'll share them in the show notes. So thank you so much, Sarah.

speaker-2 (37:21.048)
Thanks for having me.

speaker-0 (37:21.975)
me.

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