A/Prof Fei Sim - From "Accidental Pharmacist" to Trailblazing National President

We sit down with A/Prof Fei Sim, whose inspiring career journey proves that success isn't always about following the path you first imagined.

As a child, Fei dreamed of becoming an artist. While life took her in a different direction, she discovered that pharmacy offered something just as fulfilling - the opportunity to make a genuine difference in people's lives through service, care, and leadership.

What began in community pharmacy evolved into a career spanning leadership, advocacy, and influential national and international roles. Along the way, Fei embraced every opportunity to learn, grow, and lead with purpose.

In this episode:

• How a childhood dream of art led to an unexpected career in pharmacy
• Why purpose became the driving force behind every career decision
• The leadership lessons gained through community pharmacy and advocacy
• How saying yes to new opportunities opened doors to national and international impact
• Why meaningful careers are built through continuous learning and service
• Advice for pharmacists looking to grow beyond traditional career pathways

"Lead with purpose, not titles."

Fei's story is a powerful reminder that your career doesn't have to follow the plan you started with. By remaining open to opportunity, staying curious, and focusing on making a difference, you may find a path that's even more rewarding than the one you first imagined.

You can find A/Prof Fei Sim on LinkedIn.

About Your Pharmacy Career Podcast

Welcome to Your Pharmacy Career Podcast, proudly produced by Raven’s Recruitment - the experts in pharmacy career and locum services for over 30 years!

Hosted by Pharmacist, Krysti-Lee Patterson, every episode is your gateway to new opportunities in the pharmacy profession. From expert advice to inspiring success stories, we’re here to spark ideas, guide your career, and help you achieve your goals. Whether you're a student, an early-career pharmacist, or a seasoned professional, this podcast is designed to keep you informed and inspired.

Proudly brought to you by the Pharmaceutical Society of Australia. The PSA is committed to empowering pharmacists through advocacy, innovation, and industry-leading professional development. To become a member or learn more about how the PSA can support your career, visit www.psa.org.au.

Pharmacy Daily is a proud supporter of Your Pharmacy Career Podcast. If you're in the pharmacy world, it's a great resource to stay up to date with the latest industry news. To subscribe, just head to pharmacydaily.com.au to get the newsletter delivered straight to your inbox.

Transcript

speaker-0 (00:01.026)
Welcome to Your Pharmacy Career Podcast, proudly produced by Raven’s Recruitment, the experts in pharmacy career and locum services for over 30 years. Every episode is your gateway to new opportunities in the pharmacy profession. From expert advice to inspiring success stories, we're here to spark ideas, guide your career, and help you achieve your goals. Stay tuned. The next step in your pharmacy journey starts here.

Welcome back to Your Pharmacy Career Podcast, the show where we sit down with the pharmacists who are shaping the future of the profession and building careers worth talking about. I'm your host, as usual, Krysti-Lee Patterson, and today I have one of those episodes I've genuinely been looking forward to for a long time.

My guest today is one of the most remarkable pharmacists in Australia. She is the Dean International at Curtin University's Faculty of Health Sciences, the discipline lead for pharmacy at Curtin, and she sits on the PSA National Board, the PSA Foundation Board, and the Board of Australian Medicines Handbook. She is also a fellow of the PSA, a fellow of the Higher Education Academy, and holds a PhD.

Now, if you haven't guessed who it is, then I'm not sure where you've been the last few years, but I'm really proud to welcome Fei Sim to the Your Pharmacy Career Podcast. Fei, welcome to the podcast.

speaker-1 (01:25.112)
Thank you, Krysti-Lee. I think you're too overgenerous. I always say, one amongst equals, and I'm a pharmacist. Full stop.

speaker-0 (01:32.558)
Exactly. And that's why you're on a podcast, because you are a pharmacist. The other thing I do need to mention before we kick off is that I didn't mention it in your bio there, but Fei is the, what's the official term? Past PSA president? Is that the official term?

speaker-1
Yes.

speaker-0
Yeah. Now, Fei, whenever I chat to my guests on the podcast, I always like to start at the beginning of their career. And for you, this might surprise some people, but pharmacy wasn't exactly your childhood dream, if I'm correct. So I'd love to take the listeners through the journey of what was going on in your life during that time and what it was like creating, I guess, that path that led you to pharmacy.

speaker-1 (02:22.360)
You are absolutely correct, Krysti-Lee. Pharmacy was not my childhood dream. In fact, my very first childhood dream - I'm a dreamer, you know, since young, that's in my personality. So I dream a lot. You can imagine I've dreamed of becoming many things. But my very, very first childhood dream was actually to become an artist, as in an artist who draws.

When I was very young, since I can remember, I loved drawing. My mum and dad used to send me to art classes, and I was introduced to all kinds of paintings: watercolour, calligraphy, crayons, graphite. Art used to be a huge part of my life when I was very young.

But I remember when I was in year one, I came back from school. There was an activity where we had to put in writing what our inspiration in life was, and I put down that I wanted to be an artist. That report card went back to my parents, and there was a heavy, serious conversation. I can remember that as a year one. That was quite vivid. It was a serious conversation at the dining table where my dad sort of sat me down and said, “Art is something that you do to build your personality and your character and what you do as a hobby. It's not going to be your job or your career.”

So I was asked to go back and change my selection.

speaker-0 (03:48.046)
No wonder you remember that, considering you were in year one.

speaker-1 (03:58.744)
I was so fearful of going to the teacher and saying, “I'm sorry, could I please make a change?” I actually put down lawyer. That was what I put down because I just didn't know much.

But in the end, what happened was when I was in year twelve, I actually wanted to do medicine. But then one of my neighbours was a pharmacist - husband and wife pharmacist team - and really sold pharmacy to my parents. They were, and they are still, very successful, and my parents were convinced. I was, and maybe still am, a very compliant daughter, and I just complied and I did pharmacy.

When I started pharmacy in year one, I did not know much about the role of a pharmacist, but I obviously loved chemistry and maths and science and people and health. But very quickly, I fell in love and I never looked back.

speaker-0 (04:57.166)
Oh, that's so lovely. As you were telling that story, I was trying not to giggle too much because I'm pretty sure I had a very similar conversation with my parents about what I wanted to do. I was one of those kids that loved being creative, loved art, would be drawing all the time. Pretty sure I drew on walls.

speaker-1 (05:22.894)
I drew on walls too. But that was bad of me to do that.

speaker-0 (05:25.454)
Exactly. And I know you've got sisters, and there's a story that my parents loved to tell people all the time. Yes, when Krysti was little, she would draw pictures on the wall, but instead of writing my own signature, I'd write my sister's name. I was the oldest though, and my sister was two years younger than me, and my younger sister didn't know how to write her name. So it was very obvious as to who was creating the drawings on the wall. It was me and not my sister.

speaker-1 (05:53.228)
Was that you?

speaker-0 (05:55.614)
That's true. Maybe there was a strategic side of me very early on in my life, which may or may not have been a good thing. But yes, I can definitely resonate with that, art is something that you do as a hobby. I remember that very early on. I don't think I ever had a sit-down conversation like you did, but it's something that was always in the back of my mind, that I needed to do something real.

Then the science side - I was always that person making up concoctions at home, mixing twigs and sticks together to make tonics for my dolls and teddy bears. So I can definitely relate a little bit there.

So I guess if we now fast forward a little bit, you've gone to university, you're doing your pharmacy degree. What was the next step for you? Was it community pharmacy? Was it hospital? Did you know where you wanted to do your internship, or is that something that you just kind of fell into?

speaker-1 (06:57.694)
I knew very early on when I was studying pharmacy that what I loved about pharmacy as a profession was the interaction and the opportunity to engage with people, and the different scenarios that you see every day, and you really get involved with people's lives. To me, to be able to feel that I am able to make an impact on another person is a privilege that I take very seriously. I feel it's absolutely an honour to do that.

When I was studying pharmacy, I worked part-time in a local community pharmacy, and they were very, very lovely to me - the owner, the staff, the manager there, and all the patients and the people that came through the door. I absolutely fell in love, and that was my home. Then, when I had to choose where to do an internship, they offered an internship to me, and I actually just accepted it. I didn't apply anywhere else.

I loved the place, I loved the people, but there were a number of things that I thought we could do that we were not doing. I had a chat with the owner and the manager at the time, and they said, “Look, we'll empower you. You go for it.”

What I was referring to was this was in 2009. This was before the years when pharmacist or pharmacy services, professional pharmacy services, had any funding. This was before the time of clinical interventions, MedsChecks, vaccinations. There was nothing.

But I saw an opportunity where we could be doing and providing more diabetes services through NDSS at the time. I saw an opportunity where we could do skin checks, and I saw an opportunity where we could actually do vaccination services. But at the time, the legislation in Western Australia did not allow pharmacists to even be trained, and that was consistent across the country.

What we could do, and what we did do, was engage a nurse practitioner. We then had set days where the nurse would come in and be the vaccinator. We did all sorts of very exciting things. For example, even ovarian cancer week and that sort of stuff. We did lots of public health promotional campaigns, which I love.

To me, where I chose my internship - and I don't regret that, not even a single second - even though it was the same pharmacy, there was an opportunity to make an impact. I was with my people where I felt we could work as a team, and we were able to implement and trial the implementation of a series of professional pharmacy services that were back then considered very innovative and not heard of.

I could see the impact that had on our patients and our clients’ loyalty to the pharmacy, how it really changed the way they viewed us and looked at us. I just know that to be able to build that real connection with the people there was something very special. At one stage, we just constantly, on a daily basis, had people feeding us. They would just bring food in.

speaker-0 (10:13.750)
All sorts of baked goods and all that.

speaker-1 (10:16.270)
And they were just from the locals. They would come in, have a conversation about their health, and it was just something that, yeah, that was actually where I did my internship.

Then after my internship, I did sort of feel, where do I want to go in my career and what do I want to do in pharmacy? Do I want to stay in pharmacy or do something else? Because I had wanted to do medicine before pharmacy. At that stage, I did contemplate if I should go back to medicine, but I did not entertain that idea very much because I had fallen in love with pharmacy.

But I felt that we could do so much more as pharmacists. I was very cognisant that regulation, the lack of awareness, and unnecessary politics were all hindering the role of pharmacists at that stage.

Also, at that time, I had an opportunity to go back to university to do a PhD. I felt, do I want to do that? I could. And I was very passionate about medicine safety, in particular medicine safety for women during pregnancy and breastfeeding.

One thing led to another, and about six months into practising as a registered pharmacist, I had an opportunity to come back to Curtin University and do a PhD with a scholarship. It was in the area of medicine safety in breastfeeding, and I loved it. So I jumped on it, but I still practised as a pharmacist part-time.

Then I started doing sessional teaching at university, which I loved. Both my parents were teachers, so teaching and learning was always something that was a constant at home. It really felt like home.

After I finished my PhD - I took about five and a half years to finish my PhD - I sat there and I was at a crossroads. Do I continue to invest my energy, time, money, and career in pharmacy, or do I do something else?

At the time, I must say I had a PhD, but I felt that community pharmacy was very overlooked. I love, love, love community pharmacy. That's my passion. I've always felt that community pharmacy can do so much more, but we were not being fully utilised. Now there's a term for it: practising to full scope. Back then I felt, we've got so much potential, but potential is not fully unleashed. I did not use those words, but I said, “We could do a lot better.”

There was an opportunity, and I was with my ex-husband at the time, and he was a pharmacist too. I thought, I have two options. Option one, I continue to get my hair even more wet with pharmacy, so buy into a pharmacy where I could have autonomy and I could be in the position to make changes and implement services in the way that I like.

But if I were to do that, it involves money, investment, time, and I'm further in. I'm not going to sit back just to wait for miracles to happen or wait for one day when the government starts to realise the potential of a pharmacist.

So I felt, if I'm going to be investing in this area and I'm a member of this profession, I have an obligation myself. We each have that, right? If you're a pharmacist, we all have that obligation. We all have to play our part. We are each, like I said, one small piece of the puzzle, but we all need to do our bit so we can actually complete this puzzle.

I felt, what can I do in addition to working in my pharmacy? That was when I put my hand up to volunteer for PSA. Then there was an opportunity to work for the PSA for a small stint, which really opened up my network, and I love, love, love that.

Then there was an opportunity to run for election to serve on the WA Branch Committee, so I did. Then I couldn't zip my mouth.

speaker-0 (14:01.736)
Not always.

speaker-1 (14:03.564)
Then I served as the WA State President. After that, there was an opportunity to go and serve on the National Board, which I did. Then I couldn't zip my mouth as well when I got onto the National Board, and I was very, very fortunate and very, very grateful to be voted in as the National President.

That was how it sort of evolved. I must say, if you asked me 18 years ago, would I think I would be where I am right now, doing what I’m doing, absolutely, hand on heart, I’ll tell you no.

For me, it is about - I am a planner, but you can’t plan that far ahead. My big philosophy is work with what’s in front of you, leverage the opportunity that’s in front of you, make hay while the sun shines, look after the people around you, and find your people because you need your people to go far together. One person cannot do everything. It’s always about making the best of what’s in front of you and putting one foot in front of the next.

speaker-0 (15:08.634)
Absolutely. And even though I'm sure, if you're anything like me, you do try and do everything yourself and try and do things now. But yes, I've learned the hard way that you really can't do everything on your own.

speaker-1 (15:21.112)
I also feel it's actually not - and I say this because many of your listeners, Krysti-Lee, would probably think, I feel bad about asking someone else to do something or to delegate. But actually, a good leader needs to be able to bring the people around you up.

What that means is you need to be able to recognise the strengths of the people around you and give them the platform to shine. It's not about you doing it all, because it's about building succession and building a team with capability and capacity.

In life, we all have our ups and downs. You and I know, we've chatted privately many times, and we all know we're all human. So we have our ups and downs. But in order for the momentum to continue and to continue to have an upward trajectory, you need a team.

What that means is when one person is on the low, someone else is able to lift them up, but also able to continue that momentum. Then it changes and evolves because we're all on our own cycle. Being able to build the people around you is something that we should all be doing. We should all be lifting each other up. That's absolutely what we need to continue doing in order for us to all together, as a group, move forward, as a profession move forward to the bigger picture.

speaker-0 (16:47.904)
Absolutely. And it doesn't even have to be anything too out there either. You could apply what you've just said to people on branch committees or boards or things like that. But it even just starts in the team that you're working with in the pharmacy, whether it's community or hospital, or the team at the university. The people around you, empowering them to be able to step up and do things as well.

Now, Fei, thinking about where we go next in your career journey, you've started to touch on your pathway to presidency. That sounds like a book. Maybe a book by Trump. I'm not sure. Pathway to Presidency.

I'm sure that I know you enough now that you didn't set out to say, “I'm going to be president of PSA one day.” Maybe you did, maybe you didn't. But I think I'd love to know at what point, maybe when you were president of your branch and then there was an opportunity to sit on the Board.

As someone that has sat on a branch committee for PSA in the past, I have now been very grateful to be re-elected again. At the time when I was an ECP, I didn't really fully understand the role of the branch committee or the role of the National Board of the PSA. Whilst I felt like I had a lot to say - so Fei, maybe I took a leaf out of your book as well - and I was so passionate, but I didn't really fully understand what the roles were.

I have to say now, coming onto the branch committee again, I can see some great changes, and the onboarding procedure is leaps and bounds ahead of what it was one or two terms ago.

So for you, when you thought, okay, there's an opportunity to sit on the National Board, at that point in time, did you know what you were stepping into? Did you have clarity around what the differences were, or have that insight as to why you would even bother putting your hand up in the first place to make that leap to the National Board?

speaker-1 (19:05.494)
That's a very good question, Krysti-Lee. We are all learning every day. The day you feel like you're not learning is probably when you should just keep going. You learn something new. This is something my dad says all the time, that when you start to feel very comfortable at a place and you feel like you're not learning, that's when you should move because life is short, but life is also about how you are able to play your part in this bigger society and make an impact.

To do that, you want to be able to learn something new so that we ourselves continue to grow, but also our contribution will continue to grow.

First of all, if anyone is new to the branch committee or new to any board roles, we all have our first time on everything. So first of all, I think we're all learning. No one's going to sit there and think, you're new and you don't understand, because we're all here to help each other and lift each other up.

I've always said this: never chase a particular aspiration, goal, title, position, or dollar amount. Trust me, if you focus on what you genuinely care about, because what you genuinely care about is also going to determine how well you do in that role. Because if you care about something, when things get tough, it gets you out of bed because you get reminded of something you love doing, something you care about.

When you do that, you will do it well. And when you do something well, I guarantee you one thing will lead to another because there will be a place, there will be a path. Therefore, don't worry about the title or the position or the money, because I genuinely believe that when you focus on something that you care about and you do it well, the position and the money will come after that. This is just a natural phenomenon in life. That's the cycle.

If you focus in a different order, sometimes it doesn't allow us to fully explore who we are and what we are actually good at. It may be that you've heard, “This is a high position, so I must like it. It must be good for me.” Or, “Someone else is doing that, it must be good for me.” But we're all different individuals. If we're not actually doing something that truly aligns with our core values, that's going to drain you. If it doesn't align, it's going to drain you and it's not sustainable. We all live in a world where we go through cycles of burnout, and that's something we need to bear in mind.

Moving from branch committee, if any of your listeners - so congratulations, Krysti-Lee, for being elected back. I think that shows a lot about who you are and your contribution. You have a profile as well where people look up to you and go, “Right, I'm going to vote for Krysti-Lee because you will be able to move the profession along, which then comes back and helps me as a pharmacist member.” So I think that says a lot when the profession votes you in, when your peers vote you in. It means a lot.

You’ve got experience serving on the branch committee. But for your other listeners, if they are new to the branch committee or if they are contemplating, in the next cycle, putting their hand up, I would always encourage that because we do need diversity. We do need renewed blood and ideas.

A branch committee of the PSA is an elected position where it's elected by the membership, but you don't actually carry any fiduciary responsibility because you're not a board, you're not an ASIC board director per se. But serving on the National Board as a board director, there will be fiduciary responsibility that comes with serving as a board director. I would highly recommend that anyone who has the aspiration to do that consider professional development in governance.

You could do training with the Australian Institute of Company Directors, or there are other providers these days as well that can offer professional development opportunities in governance. It's not just corporate governance, but it's also understanding fiduciary responsibility, risk, finance, fiscal responsibility, and understanding how to set strategy. These are all important professional development opportunities.

But again, those are the skills that we can learn in order to upskill ourselves to do the job better. It needs to come back to your core belief, your core value. Why do you want to serve on a big body? Why? The reason has to be something that is of real meaning and purpose. People's reasons could be different, but at least because I see great opportunity for the pharmacy profession, and as a member of the profession I want to be able to play my part, be able to network and meet new people where I can share ideas, and together we grow, we learn, we exchange thoughts.

What I want to encourage your listeners to do is to really hone in on the purpose and why you do this, because then when things are tough, you can always go back to the purpose.

You asked me earlier, Krysti-Lee, when I became the National President, was it as I thought the role would be? To be honest, I have very successful predecessors and they've done very, very well, and they're absolute role models for me. I look at them and I remember saying, “I'm not them. I can't do those things.”

speaker-1 (24:38.698)
But they were supporting me and encouraging me and saying, “We're not going to leave you. We're going to be around, and we're all going to grow and learn.” I think that's something PSA does really well, which is succession. We have volunteers who cross over their terms so that the corporate knowledge can be retained, but at the same time, it does not stifle opportunity for innovation.

I think that's actually something that PSA does very well. I remember, maybe even up to the first 24 months of being in the role, every single day I would sit down and go, this is something new. It's constant. There's always something new. But I absolutely enjoyed every moment.

Of course, there have been very tough moments. Many, many tears. Many times, because I live in the west and the meetings happened over east, I remember vividly many occasions on my way there I would usually be working on the plane. But on my way back, there were many occasions where I would just be in tears because I would be feeling so drained, absolutely exhausted physically and mentally.

Often, we don't get what we want from what I've set to achieve and my expectations, and the disappointment. It's been many, many tough times, but I would always tell myself, right, I'm going to acknowledge how I feel that night. I always take the last plane out of wherever I am after the meeting. I often reach back in Perth - lucky the time difference, because you gain hours when you come back - around 10 or 11 pm.

I always tell myself, I'll allow myself that night to acknowledge my feelings, feel that way. Tomorrow morning when I wake up, it's a fresh new day, and I remind myself the next day why I'm doing what I'm doing.

The brain is actually very powerful. If you haven't heard of this thing - I'm also very interested in psychology - and this is actually all based on science. There's the power of prediction, actually training your brain to think in certain ways. The past four years in particular, I've tried to work on myself in terms of compartmentalisation and my thoughts, and also really training my brain to move on from things and be future-focused, future-looking.

If something has happened, try to learn from it. But what has worked for me is not just brushing my negative feelings away. It's actually acknowledging that it's there, but then giving myself a set time when I'm allowed to feel sorry for myself, feel sorry for the situation, go down the rabbit hole, and then I've got a set time up until a particular point. Usually for me, it's overnight. So when I wake up, I'm telling myself, that's a fresh new day.

speaker-0 (27:34.070)
I think that is really good advice, giving yourself the opportunity to feel those feelings. I think you can relate that to any aspect of your life. It's really good because sometimes you do feel like you need to push feelings aside. It's something that I've struggled with in corporate settings as well.

I get very passionate about things, and I actually now think that is a strength. I used to call it a weakness, and I don't believe it is a weakness. I think it's a good thing to be able to show empathy, and I think that you've done that very well in your position as president.

Another person that comes to mind that does that well is Jacinda Ardern, the former New Zealand Prime Minister. I've been told before that you're too emotional, or I've gotten upset in meetings because things didn't go the right way, or sometimes I couldn't even explain why I felt so emotional or passionate about something. Then sometimes I would beat myself up about it.

But I think, giving yourself that opportunity to go home and set that time, that worry time or downtime, rabbit hole time, is something that is good to do, and it's actually probably quite therapeutic as well.

I've also started doing that and even coaching some of the pharmacists and pharmacy assistants that I've worked with over the years to do that when there's been a situation in a pharmacy that's caused them maybe to feel a bit anxious or stressed or angry. I just say, “Go out, take 10 or 15 minutes and just acknowledge what's going on. You don't have to put on a happy face for the next customer. Just take that time out.” So I think you could apply that to quite a few different situations there.

Pharmacy Daily is a proud supporter of Your Pharmacy Career Podcast. If you're in the pharmacy world, it's a great resource to stay up to date with the latest industry news. To subscribe, just head to pharmacydaily.com.au to get the newsletter delivered straight to your inbox.

The other thing I wanted to ask you is, as the National President, you were the first female president. Is that correct?

speaker-1
Yes.

speaker-0
That's huge. And also, you're bringing your diversity as well. You're also from WA, not the east. When you were first elected, did you feel that extra pressure because you were the first? Is that something that you felt? First of all, I'm sure you would have felt proud. That has to feel amazing, to be the first woman president of the PSA. But to me, I feel like that would hold a lot of responsibility as well. So maybe if you could talk through that experience from when you were first elected and even now, as you reflect back on your time as president.

speaker-1 (30:41.846)
First of all, Krysti-Lee, I really genuinely want to say that it is absolutely a privilege to be the first female president. However, I'm definitely not the first female or the first woman to be in a leadership position in pharmacy. There have been many women before me who would have made excellent presidents, and I have a lot of respect for them.

If I take the pragmatic view, it actually can be a sad thing to be saying this. If I'm saying there have been many other women before me who could have been really good, excellent first presidents, obviously many things were circumstantial. I do believe there is a reason for everything, but that doesn't mean that their efforts and everything were not there. There have been many, many other women leaders before me who definitely deserve recognition.

Coming back to your question, I did feel the pressure sometimes, but most of the time I think I got too excited, and my excitement just took over.

Coming back to the pressure, in our separate conversations, Krysti-Lee, I did open up to you and say that I have come to the realisation that my biggest enemy is myself. I think I have been very fortunate that PSA is actually a very supportive, collegial, inclusive organisation. I say that with my hand on heart. I've been very fortunate that it's a very supportive environment where I have men, women, and non-binary people supporting me in that role.

From that regard, from my peer support, I've never felt that, from an external perspective, I was made to feel inferior just because I'm a woman. But sometimes I do question myself, and I do find that when I reflect on my own feelings and experience, I am not as confident in certain circumstances because of how I look, who I am, and the things I can't change - being female and from a diverse cultural background.

I think I have come to this current realisation that obviously nothing is absolute. But the vast majority of times, I think it's in my head, if I'm honest. I think I've been my biggest enemy when it comes to a lack of internal confidence.

There you go, admitting to you and your audience. I doubt myself all the time. I play back conversations. I think about things, and that's probably also why before bed I do a lot of reflection, and I do feel sad most nights. I know that I do that because I get concerned about what I've done. Have I done the wrong thing? Have I upset someone? Have I done what I could?

If I use a very explicit example, during my presidency there have been many significant policy changes: 60-day dispensing, vaping, regulatory changes, 8CPA, strategic agreement, college - all of those things. We've had many difficult conversations. But many of those conversations and negotiations that I've been in, I've always worried that if it's because of my own incompetence or inexperience in this space, and I'm not doing as best a job as a person in this role can do, then there can be real consequences on people's lives.

If we're talking about people's take-home pay, if we're talking about how services are being funded, we're talking about regulations that affect what we can do that affects patients. I always remind myself that there are real consequences on real people, whether pharmacists or patients and others.

So it goes back a lot, to me, about: am I the right person? And I start to then go into that RHT - rabbit hole time, what you call it.

But then again, I always tell myself, right, try to reflect that night. Allow myself to think through those things. But then the next morning, it's a new day. Focus on what I can do.

If I think I haven't done a good enough job the day before, because there are certain things, certain arguments that I could have put forward in a more articulate way and I did not, then I actually write it down. I write it down and I go, right, when given the opportunity in this new day, how am I going to do it? If the meeting has passed, what other avenues can I take to send that message to the person who needs to hear it?

The other thing is that I absolutely love pharmacy, and I genuinely believe in a strong profession leading to a strong health system. I genuinely believe that. I would always go back to that.

It upsets me sometimes if people don't fully understand the role we play, the role of pharmacists. But I then realised that when you take the time to explain to people, whether they're policymakers or decision makers, and make them understand, I often find that more often than not, they sit there and go, “Actually, I've never thought about it this way. No one's actually ever explained it in this way to me.”

It does change people's perspectives because people's actions and their decisions are based on their perception. And if perception is based on limited understanding, that is something we can address. There is an action there that we can take to address this perception.

That's been my life.

We've got a very good new National President now, Professor Mark Naunton, and I've got a lot of respect for Mark. Mark is absolutely doing an amazing job. During my presidency, Mark was one of my Vice Presidents, together with the amazing Caroline Diamantis. They were always there with me. Mark in particular was involved in a number of the big strategic projects that we embarked on, and because of that, he was able to hit the ground running as soon as he took over the baton.

He continues to be a very good friend of mine. We continue to support each other. I would say he's more experienced than I am, but everyone's journey is different. I can only try to understand what he must be feeling and what he must be going through. Sometimes, in some cases, it does feel lonely because you're travelling on your own, you are going to meetings on your own.

I do feel a lot of those decisions, even though we have a Board and we have working groups, come with a very strong sense of responsibility and accountability because it goes back to my point earlier about real impact on people's livelihoods. That's something that sometimes weighs me down, but also, in many other times, gives me the motivation to keep going.

speaker-0 (38:26.560)
Yes. I think that's good. It's interesting that you think that he's potentially more experienced, but again, it's different experiences. Everyone brings different life experiences and things.

When I interviewed Mark, I loved getting to know him more and his journey, and to hear his story growing up and how he saw how hard it is for communities that are in lower socioeconomic areas, and the impact that happens. I could see his passion coming through. It's like, wow, just from that impact of growing up near that area, he's now able to actually assist with advocacy and policy change to make those outcomes for those people, which I think is amazing.

I think it's important to remember the impact that you have on our patients, whether you're in advocacy, on branch committees, or the National President of the PSA. When you say you reflect back on that impact, whether it's a curse or not to sometimes reflect on that impact, I think it's important to know that you're actually changing people's lives.

speaker-1 (39:44.000)
Yes. The other thing I think about Mark that I want to mention is that he's one of the most authentic people I know. He genuinely cares. I can tell the profession now, hand on heart, he's someone who genuinely cares about this work, genuinely cares about doing good work, and he's a man with integrity. I can tell you firsthand, he's someone who looks to lift the people around him up.

He actually has very good interpersonal skills. You can imagine how I mentioned earlier about the difficult conversations that we have. It's not always difficult conversations with an external party, right? On anything that's contentious, even within our own tent, we encourage robust discussions on topic. That's why we are a good team.

But the robust discussion sometimes also comes with some fire and differing views, and you can imagine we're all type A personalities, so we all have our own strong views. Mark has consistently been able to do his magic and bring people together, help each other see each other's views. He does that so subtly but effectively in the background that you don't realise it at the time, but he was doing it.

At times like this, when our profession is going through significant change, you need to have someone who's down to earth, who's grounded, someone who's operationally focused and very pragmatic, but also has good interpersonal skills to be able to lead the organisation and the profession. That's why I said at the very beginning, earlier this year, that Mark is definitely the right person for the role.

There's always a time and place for a leader. I think that's what's good about our profession, that we do recognise that, and we evolve and we support and bring the next person up.

speaker-0 (41:43.352)
Absolutely. I think that's very important that we do that. I guess now, what's next for Fei post-presidency?

speaker-1 (41:53.522)
Good question. I've come back to Curtin University and I started a role about two or three months ago as Dean International of the Faculty of Health Sciences at Curtin University. It's also something that I feel is a steep learning curve for me. It's a new area, but I do feel very passionate about this area in terms of what we can do as an institution on the global stage, but also what we can do from a health perspective.

There are over 15 disciplines under the faculty. I'm quite passionate about a multidisciplinary team approach to healthcare, and I think we're very fortunate in Australia that we actually have a world-class health system. I know we have challenges. But I was born and raised in Malaysia and Singapore, and I understand in many other countries, especially in developing countries, what we have here in Australia is actually something that we take for granted, and we should not take for granted.

There are many other places around the world that look to Australia to learn from us, to learn about our approach to health management, to what we do in terms of leveraging the full potential of each of the disciplines. That's something that I feel very passionate about and that I think we have a social responsibility to do.

I'm also very grateful to Curtin University. I did my bachelor’s, I did my PhD here, bought my first house literally five minutes’ drive from Curtin. My sisters work at Curtin. I now work at Curtin as well. It's a place that I feel is always very special to me, and it's home to me. I really like Curtin’s values when it comes to being very, very inclusive. That's something that's very special.

Also, I turn 40. Four-zero is a big number, but if I'm lucky, I'm only halfway through my life. Maybe not even halfway through. What I really want to do in my 40s is continue the momentum with professional growth because that's something that I feel is very important to me. I feel like that's where I'm making a positive impact.

But I also want to really invest in myself when it comes to personal growth. I want to see new things, learn new things, meet new people, and broaden my perspective. I want to visit 40 different countries in my 40s.

speaker-0 (44:25.454)
Wow. Okay. Yes, this is fun.

speaker-1 (44:28.968)
I think the world is big. I've come to realise - I would say I probably never previously thought about it that way - but I think I've started to appreciate that the world is big, people are diverse, and that adds to the richness. It's very interesting. I find that very interesting. I like to explore, and I don't want to limit myself to the possibilities.

I know it sounds like what people write on their wall, but that's genuinely how I feel at the moment. Maybe because I'm in that zone at the moment, having turned 40. I was having this big moment of realisation about who I am and what I want to do. I genuinely believe that I want to be able to advance not just my professional development, but also personal growth.

Because I think I have maybe neglected my personal growth a little bit. When I say personal growth, I mean in all aspects: physical health, mental health, emotional wellbeing, personal perspectives, and to be a stronger person inside. Because if I can love myself and look after myself, then I have the ability to go and care for someone else.

I really want to do that, and I want to learn more about myself. I know we're all evolving and changing, but I really want to get to know myself better. That way, I can be a better person, and I can be a better person for the people around me and a better person for society.

The week I turned 40 was a very special week for me because the lovely, lovely friend Anne in Sydney organised for us to go and see my all-time idol, a person that I admire a lot, Michelle Obama. It was so, so, so sweet that they even arranged for a one-on-one catch-up with Michelle.

speaker-0 (46:22.050)
Wow.

speaker-1 (46:22.862)
Michelle wrote me a message on one of her books, and it's just something very special to me. I want to explain why I look up to Michelle a lot. It's just the values and everything that I admire a lot, and that I appreciate, and that I hope to have in my life.

Michelle is someone who is wise, mature, very, very smart - we know that. But at the same time, she was able to support her husband, Barack, to complete a very successful presidency whilst not losing herself and continuing to care for her family and her two daughters. Even after Barack finished his presidency, Michelle continued her momentum to do the charitable work and continue to drive the things that she believes are the right things to do.

To me, it's that she was able to balance that, but do it so eloquently and with such great purpose and integrity. She's so genuine and authentic in her dealings and her work. You mentioned Jacinda Ardern earlier, and I do love Jacinda as well. So Jacinda and Michelle Obama, I just have a lot of respect for leaders like them. I do hope that one day I will grow up to be like them.

speaker-0 (47:45.930)
Yes. I love how you say “when you grow up.” I don't think anyone ever grows up, right? Not fully. Always learning, always changing. I think that's really important in life.

Fei, we've come to almost the end of the podcast, and I'm sure there are so many things that we could talk more about and delve into different areas and go into more detail. But what I've started doing this season with my guests is what I like to call the Fast Five. We haven't done this before on the podcast, but what I will do is ask you five questions and just the first thing that pops into your head. Don't think about it too much, and we'll just see where it goes.

So are you ready for the Fast Five, Fei?

speaker-1
Yep.

speaker-0
Okay, so the first thing is: what's the best piece of advice you've ever received?

speaker-1 (48:42.238)
Bite off more than you can chew and start chewing like mad.

speaker-0 (48:46.562)
I love this. And you know what? I've heard you say this before, and I remember thinking, yes, I love it.

speaker-1 (48:51.190)
My accountant said that to me, and I remember it until now.

speaker-0 (48:55.850)
Love it. Now the second thing is: what's one thing that pharmacists should stop underestimating about themselves?

speaker-1 (49:03.662)
Potential. We are trained and positioned to make a positive impact on someone's life, life and death in some circumstances. So never talk down on yourself, never belittle our contribution. We have to be proud of ourselves, be humble as a person, but never be humble about our profession.

speaker-0 (49:30.799)
One hundred per cent. I think that deserves an amen. I love that.

Next question is: what's the skill you wish you had developed earlier in your career?

speaker-1 (49:40.814)
Accept that I would make mistakes.

speaker-0 (49:43.200)
Accept that. Yes. I think that is very good advice. That's definitely something I wish I'd developed earlier in my career. Absolutely.

speaker-1 (49:51.148)
Be okay with it.

Basically, we suffer and we burn ourselves internally, we kick ourselves. That is helpful to an extent to help us reflect and be a better person, but sometimes it doesn't help make things better. I think sometimes when we make mistakes, we feel bad because we feel like we've let someone down. We've done the wrong thing. We've let someone down.

But that person that you feel you've let down, actually they want their issue to get better. Us sitting in our own bed and kicking ourselves actually doesn't help that situation for that person. So the best thing we can do for that person is actually acknowledging that, right, if time could turn back, we would have done different things. We could have done it better, and then go and do it better.

But I read this the other day, and I think it's important to share this. Sometimes we have regrets in life, like mistakes. We go, “I shouldn't have done that. That was a mistake.” But even if time could turn back, given the knowledge, the perspective, and the level of experience we had at that time, however many years ago - two years, five years, ten years - even if time could turn back, we would have made the same decision.

So it's not actually fair on ourselves to judge the back-then us on the decisions that we made based on the skills, the knowledge, the experience, and the perspective that we have right now. That goes back to a lot about accepting that we can make mistakes, but focusing on the future and going, right, okay, fine. I did not do the best and that has some consequences. What can I do now?

speaker-0 (51:36.916)
Exactly. That's it.

Now the last question is a bit of a fun one. Is there a book, a podcast, or resource that you have maybe been obsessed with at the moment? Or maybe something that you've read or heard of in the past that you would recommend to our listeners to read or listen or watch or consume? It doesn't have to be related to pharmacy if you don't want it to.

speaker-1 (52:01.954)
The first thing that came to my mind is The Diary of a CEO.

speaker-0 (52:05.031)
Yes. There are lots.

speaker-1 (52:08.044)
There are. I want to say the whole series of Michelle Obama's books. I'm actually currently reading a book, Rebuilding Yourself After a Relationship Breakdown. There is also the Marie Kondo book, which is quite good, simplifying your life. There is Building Your Legacy. I actually love, love, love self-help books. I don't know, it's like a recovery healing thing for me. It's a thing for me. I actually quite like doing that. There are lots and lots.

speaker-0 (52:49.080)
I think that is quite a healthy addiction, if you call it that. For the listeners, you can't see my background, but my bookshelf is adorned with so many self-help books and biographies and things like that. Sometimes it can be an expensive habit. When I do a lot of travelling, my thing is I always will buy a book in an airport, and I don't always read them. I think I've got six or seven books on the go at the moment.

That is my guilty pleasure: airport books.

speaker-1 (53:21.326)
Yes, there's something very therapeutic about reading and reading non-academic journals.

speaker-0 (53:28.038)
Yes. Absolutely. Well, thank you, Fei, for the conversation. It's been a pleasure getting to know you a little bit more and know more about your journey, about how you got to be the PSA President, and I'm really looking forward to seeing what comes next.

speaker-1 (53:44.866)
Thank you, Krysti-Lee. It's been absolutely a joy and a privilege to be chatting with you. Thank you.

speaker-0 (53:50.124)
Thank you, Fei, so much for spending the time with us today to talk about your career to date. I've really enjoyed learning more about you and what's coming next for Fei.

For our listeners, I'll have all of her details in the show notes. So if you want to follow her on LinkedIn or maybe you want to do a PhD under Fei, that would be pretty cool. All the details are in the show notes.

Thank you again, Fei, for being a great guest, and I look forward to seeing what's next.

speaker-1
Thank you for having me.

speaker-0
Thanks for tuning in to Your Pharmacy Career Podcast, proudly sponsored by the Pharmaceutical Society of Australia. The PSA is committed to empowering pharmacists through advocacy, innovation, and industry-leading professional development. To become a member or learn more about how the PSA can support your career, visit www.psa.org.au.

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