De-Shackling Prophecy From End-Times Eschatology: The Prophecy Series Continued

Welcome to "Voices from the Desert," where ancient wisdom intersects with modern culture. In this episode, titled "De-shackling Prophecy from End Times Eschatology," Josh and Murray delve into point 6 of the Prophetic Manifesto. Often, prophecy is seen as a vehicle to predict all the calamities that are about to fall upon a nation. But what if we saw these things through a bridal paradigm?

The Prophetic Manifesto offers seven key points that challenge traditional perspectives on the spiritual gifts, offering a fresh perspective on Biblical prophecy. Join us as we navigate the sands of time, reimagining the future through a lens unbound by conventional wisdom. 

The 7 Points of the Prophetic Manifesto:

- The reputation of Macarius the Great.
- The Desert Fathers (aka the prophets in the church) were sought for their great understanding of Scripture.
- The primary function of prophetic ministry is to reveal the nature of God/heart of Christ. A secondary/tertiary function is telling the future.
- An intense regards for humility, solitude, and silence (see the aforementioned Macarius)
- A hesitancy to use a gift to build a platform. Prophets/those in prophetic ministry ought to desire to be hidden rather than seen and to see the gift used in hidden ways.
- De-shackling the function of prophecy from end-times eschatology
- A healthier understanding of 5-fold ministry (admitting that we don't know what we are talking about). How has it been applied in ages past?

For more about Joshua Hoffert visit: https://www.windministries.ca/
For more about Murray Dueck visit: https://www.samuelsmantle.com/

Transcript

00;00;00;00 - 00;01;01;04
Unknown
It really draws us back to a focus on the nature of, again, the nature of God and the heart of Christ. Right. Like you've said, it's. It is. You're going to be okay. Not because you're not just because you your for somebody you are just taking care of his brother. US.

00;01;01;07 - 00;01;26;18
Unknown
Welcome, everybody, to another episode of Voices from the Desert. Desert. Desert. I like it when Marie gets little. That little pup howl in there, that's all. Yeah, I actually did that. Not bad today. Yeah. No. Practicing in the mirror a little bit, you know? That's right. Well, today I got to work on Chewbacca, but.

00;01;26;21 - 00;01;46;15
Unknown
Well, maybe we won't do a Chewbacca. How is that? Murray's today as he's not inundated by Aiden, the dog. He's being attacked by all the cats. Yes. Who are trying to claw Josh through the screen. Just. And for the record, the way Marie got the cats away from the screen was it gave them a game on his cell phone.

00;01;46;15 - 00;02;10;20
Unknown
I don't even. My old cell phone. My old cell phone. Okay, well, that somehow makes it okay that it's the old cell phone. Yeah, this is. But this is the world that we live in today is rather shooing cats away. We say here, here's a screen now, two cats and I'm in and there's a there's literally an app on your phone that someone made designed to distract the cats.

00;02;10;29 - 00;02;30;04
Unknown
yeah. They're catching mice right now on the on the cell phone mice across the screen. I said to Murray when he told me that he was doing that the world, it's just done. We're just I don't even know, you know, if we should go that much longer. So. Yeah. They touch the mice, the mice pops, and then the next almost comes by.

00;02;30;04 - 00;02;51;06
Unknown
It's, well, you know, in effect for cats, right. Talking of real. That's right. But speaking of the world not going any longer, that kind of brings us to part of our topic. yes. Because you like that Segway? I did. I didn't catch it. I was busy watching the cats out there. Really watching the cats catch mice, digital mice, real cats catching digital mice.

00;02;51;06 - 00;03;10;27
Unknown
Eventually your screen will probably just project them into the room and they'll actually I would be cool. I might help them then. I mean, that's eventually. That's it. We'll all end up being as just glorified cats running around chasing digital things. It's anyway, it's pretty much the story of humanity to this point. Dogs have masters, cats have servants.

00;03;10;27 - 00;03;29;15
Unknown
There it is. There you go. That's right. So, so welcome, everybody, to Voices from the Desert. My name is Joshua Hoffman. I'm here with my good friend Murray Duke. I run a ministry called Within the Ministries, where we equip people to experience the heart of God. And Murray runs a ministry called Samuel's Mantle Prophetic Training and helping people.

00;03;29;18 - 00;03;51;08
Unknown
And essentially, we're both doing the same thing help people know the heart of the God, help people to know the heart of God, and then how that impacts the rest of their life. And so, yeah, we're both very passionate about the impact that has upon prophetic ministry and hearing the voice of God. And we've been in this long standing series which for all or we're just about wrapping up, we may wrap it up today.

00;03;51;08 - 00;04;16;19
Unknown
We'll see how far we get. I doubt it. Yeah. Murray doubts it just because I have plans. Maria So much to say. And we've been we've been breaking apart the the gift of prophecy. And, you know, beyond that, the spiritual gifts are the concept of spiritual gifts in light of the early church. And we did a number of episodes looking at how the early church practiced prophecy.

00;04;16;19 - 00;04;36;06
Unknown
And we've been going through what it might look like today if we take the same kind of principles and practice them today and how that might balance prophetic ministry. So we've been going through a seven part what we've affectionately dubbed the prophetic prophetic manifesto. Murray keeps saying it's Joshua's prophetic manifesto. But I agree with all your Paul concurs.

00;04;36;06 - 00;05;03;12
Unknown
Yes, exactly. Yes. And so we are today on points six and seven. And so I'm just to refresh, people's memory will go the point of the manifesto are that prophetic ministry would be known by the reputation of MacQuarrie as we covered that in prophetic manifesto. Point one that the prophetic ministry today would be known for their robust interpretation and defense of Scripture.

00;05;03;14 - 00;05;27;03
Unknown
The Prophetic Ministry would be known for having a primary function of revealing the nature of God in the heart of Christ, and secondarily, or tertiary, tertiary or early a tertiary A anyway, another function of prophecies to reveal a future. But it's not the primary that there'd be an intense regard for humility, solitude and silence. We spent quite a bit camping on that.

00;05;27;05 - 00;05;48;04
Unknown
There would be a hesitancy to use a gift to build a platform across any type of what we would consider a gift from God. Using a gift to build a platform, rather desire to see the gift used in hidden ways due shackling, the function of prophecy for many times eschatology. And lastly, the last point is a healthier understanding of five fold ministry.

00;05;48;04 - 00;06;17;03
Unknown
So those are our two points that we're we're intending to cover today. We'll probably get through at least one of them deep shock absorption of prophecy from end times eschatology. And we've we've kind of already characterized this a little bit talking about the the that that that the nature of prophecy is to reveal the heart of God, primarily reveal the heart of God in the nature of Jesus, the heart of God, the nature of God.

00;06;17;06 - 00;06;42;11
Unknown
And then the mistake comes when we think because the Old Testament prophets pointed towards the future, prophecy must be about revealing the future when the Old Testament prophets pointed to the future because Jesus, the word had not yet come. And so the revealing of God was happening in the Old Testament prophets. So we we talked about that a little bit in the sense of the eschatological part of that.

00;06;42;11 - 00;07;24;00
Unknown
But we're going to break that apart a little bit more now because the the way that we read scripture is it's, you know, it's funny, the way we read Scripture is impacted by the lens. We used to read scripture. And we often I was thinking about this the other day that we read, we fill in theological gaps with our own assumptions, which which makes the role of a teacher very important because a teacher can help someone fill in the gaps with that or challenge their assumptions that have filled in the gaps.

00;07;24;02 - 00;07;56;02
Unknown
And so we have all we have we have today the 21st century. Contemporary Christian really has at this point a hodgepodge of spiritual or a hodgepodge of theological ideas that they've cobbled together that are in one part based on what's been taught to them, in one part based on their own private study, in one part based on the culture they were raised in, one part based on the the the the philosophical milieu of the day.

00;07;56;04 - 00;08;23;15
Unknown
It's in part based on how people think of epistemology because they not that they think what's my epistemology but they. Yeah, yeah epistemological a way of approaching the world. So all these things kind of cram themselves together and you're your average 21st century Christian has a bunch of assumptions about the text and about God and about theology and about Christianity without realizing how many assumptions they have.

00;08;23;17 - 00;09;00;19
Unknown
And the only thing they know is that they get frustrated or offended when their theological assumption is challenged. And and so we have this way of reading Scripture that that reads into Scripture our preconceived notions and our preconceived beliefs. And I was chatting with someone just the other day about reading. We were talking about the rich young ruler and how Jesus says the only person that's going to make it into heaven, to the to the to the disciples after he tells a rich young ruler to sell all that you have right, and come and follow me.

00;09;00;21 - 00;09;26;28
Unknown
And then the disciples go, How? Who's can make it into heaven? Like that's so that's possible. And the the kind of the contemporary popular idea is that you're if you have you have to get rid of your possessions and your possessions will distract you from actually following God. Right. The more things you have, the harder it is to follow God because you have more to get rid of.

00;09;27;01 - 00;09;48;01
Unknown
And that's kind of a surface level reading of the text. And it's it's not necessarily untrue, but it's not really the point of Jesus, because Jesus is telling the rich young ruler that the kind of people that will be in my kingdom, because Jesus isn't thinking eschatological here, He's not talking about the kingdom that's going to come at the end of all things.

00;09;48;01 - 00;10;07;08
Unknown
He's talking about the kingdom of God that's being established on Earth. And so when he says to to come and follow me and this is the kind of person that'll be in my kingdom, he's going the kingdom value is not the rich and the beautiful, the gay and everything he's saying. I'm actually concerned about the poor, I'm concerned about the downtrodden.

00;10;07;08 - 00;10;29;15
Unknown
And those are the people that I'm going to be looking for. And so he's actually sharing of Kingdom Vision and the heart of God, not the practice of simplicity. And so we read something into the text because we read it from a 21st century lens that says, Well, we have everything at our fingertips. We have so many possessions, we've got to get rid of our possessions to follow God because they're such a distraction.

00;10;29;20 - 00;10;50;27
Unknown
But that's not really what Jesus was saying. He's saying the type of people that are going to be in my kingdom are not going to be the kind of people that you think of in an earthly kingdom who have the wealth and who have the power. That's not what I'm looking for in my kingdom. That's his point. So we've got this way of reading text, the text that is not consistent with the words of Jesus, not consistent with the context of Jesus.

00;10;50;29 - 00;11;22;22
Unknown
And so that happens when we talk about prophecy and that the topic of the day is it's good eschatology is got eschatology. That's the word I'm looking for. Scatological, eschatological. Yeah, yeah. Which essentially means the interpretation of Scripture from the perspective of end times events. So what's your eschatology? What is, what's your approach to the the what Scripture says about the final days?

00;11;22;22 - 00;11;59;11
Unknown
That's essentially what we mean when we talk, when we're talking about eschatology. So you know that the the part, the parts of scripture that have to do with the final judgment where all this stuff is going to end up. And oftentimes what happens in prophetic circles is the way the gift of prophecy is used is to to point the church to when that is going to happen or how that's going to happen or elaborating on the process.

00;11;59;14 - 00;12;26;04
Unknown
And so there's a focus on, you know, things like just just a couple of different comments on that. Things like the end Times revival has become a term that's entered our prophetic lexicon that just now comes out because it's it's in you know, it's it's just part of how we talk now. Like I was I was finishing up a writing project the other day.

00;12;26;04 - 00;12;45;08
Unknown
Mary and I had my dad doing some editing for me. He was reading through it and he was going through and pointing out different words. Like like at one point I had put the word esoteric experiences in the text, right? My dad's. Well, don't use that word. Use something else that makes more sense, which is funny using the word esoteric.

00;12;45;08 - 00;13;11;28
Unknown
But he was. But he was. His point was not. Everybody knows what the word esoteric means. So use a word that has a more So esoteric. Yeah, it's so esoteric. And but that that when I'm writing, what comes out when I'm writing is what's already entered into my lexicon, what's already into my in my vocabulary. Right. And so I have to rethink, okay, well, if I'm going to be talking to someone who doesn't know what the word esoteric means, what word might I use?

00;13;11;28 - 00;13;35;29
Unknown
Right? So when it comes to the end time revival, because that word is already entered into our prophetic vocabulary, now when we prophesy, we just pull it up out of nowhere. We don't even need God to say end times revival. We just pull it up and assume that it's the case. And there's other terms that have entered into the prophetic vocabulary like, like the billion soul harvest, right?

00;13;36;02 - 00;14;07;14
Unknown
Because that's the the ideas that the billion soul harvest will precede the the the second coming of Jesus. So we have this way of prophesying where we where we think towards the end. And I suspect that a lot of the reason we do that is because of the overwhelming anxiety that the world experiences, especially in the wake of World War Two actually, and the the advent of the nuclear bomb.

00;14;07;16 - 00;14;36;23
Unknown
And now, you know, we've dealt with, what, 70 some odd years of the availability of the nuclear bomb. And there's there is still like that anytime there's a worldwide conflict like we see today, we're not a worldwide conflict, but a conflict that impacts the world like Ukraine and Russia, like Israel and and Gaza, all of a sudden people start saying, that's the nuclear war is going to happen.

00;14;36;25 - 00;14;59;02
Unknown
Right? There's there's this anxiety that permeates our our modern age. I think, if I'm not mistaken, there's been a big fast called to by some prophetic ministry, prophetic ministries to fast and pray to to stop World War three. Yes. Yeah, I'm sure there has been I think I saw something like that. That's not a bad thing. I'm not saying that's a bad thing.

00;14;59;05 - 00;15;24;10
Unknown
Right. Let's we should do those kind of things. We should be praying that people don't die and that, you know, that we have we have the capacity, the opportunities to spread the love of Jesus and do the kinds of things that you would do. And he wants his right to do all that stuff, for sure. But there's my our point is that there's a there's a bent to prophecy that interprets all events through the lens of how is this going to be?

00;15;24;16 - 00;15;53;19
Unknown
How does this point to the the end of everything, the apocalypse, if you will, and and I think a lot of the reason why we do that is because of that anxiety. And anyway, so Amir and I were talking just before we went live about the lens that we read Scripture through. And Mary made this fascinating comment about reading Scripture through the eyes of bridal intimacy.

00;15;53;22 - 00;16;17;08
Unknown
And and so I just want to kick it over to Mary with all that. You know, I kind of set the stage for you, I guess, a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. And Mary's got some thoughts looking at some of the but looking at the the the best prophet in all of scripture, which would be Jesus. I yeah. He's, he's, you know, he's called the prophet that comes after Moses.

00;16;17;08 - 00;16;41;13
Unknown
Right. So or in the prophet prophecies like myself. Yeah. But he's so much more than that so so Mary what are your thoughts shackling the function of prophets. Well let's let's work at the shackling first. Let's just work on that word, everybody. And the point is, we all do have paradigms and belief systems that when we read scripture, we're reading it through our our belief system, our paradigm.

00;16;41;15 - 00;17;00;28
Unknown
And that's why there's 30,000 different Protestant denominations now, like. Right. And so let's go back and we're going to look at Luke 21. I'll read you just the beginning of excuse me. Let me let me while you're bringing that up, let me just do this, okay? Can I characterize something real quick, Mary? Is that all right? Sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00;17;00;28 - 00;17;26;23
Unknown
So so just to give people some more of what we're talking about, okay, there's this. There's this this idea that has cropped up a number of times about how John the Apostle is still alive today and because Jesus says in Matthew 16, there's some of you are standing here, shall not taste death till they see the sun. A man coming in his kingdom.

00;17;26;26 - 00;17;50;27
Unknown
And then at the end of John Peter asks about the apostle John, and Jesus says, if he remains to come, what is that to you? And so people have kind of invented this idea that John is still around, and then John kind of periodically shows up as a eschatological figure because the end must be near. So John is showing up because the son of man is coming in his kingdom.

00;17;50;27 - 00;18;17;12
Unknown
Right. And so he kind of shows up in these periodically and these type of end time prophecy events that people have. And it's all a misreading of the particular texts regarding John and what Jesus says. Because in Matthew Jesus, when Jesus says there's some that won't taste till they see the son of man coming in his kingdom, like that actually happened when Jesus ascended while Jesus risen from the dead, that He came in his kingdom.

00;18;17;12 - 00;18;35;27
Unknown
So His kingdom is established as the inaugural part. So Jesus is just giving them courage to wait through the next few weeks when he's going to be crucified. That's all. That's all that means right there. This you don't need to think anymore. Anymore of that. And and at the end of John, they actually characterize it and say some people assumed this meant that John wasn't going to die.

00;18;35;27 - 00;19;02;10
Unknown
But yeah, that's right. It does say that history gives us the way that John died. I mean, it's it's it's written out. So it's not like we have this just disappears from history and we don't know what happened to him. He actually there's a there's recounted history of him dying. So so these kind of ideas of how we read scripture come up every now and then and and then interpret Scripture through the vantage point of eschatology and then read things into Scripture that aren't that simply aren't there.

00;19;02;10 - 00;19;25;28
Unknown
The simplest explanation for John is one that history tells us he's dead. And two, Jesus was just saying, they're not going to die. You guys aren't going to die. Take heart. You're going to make it through this trial right now. And then what happens then is we have I want to characterize two different takes on prophecy. One, a contemporary take and one historical take.

00;19;26;01 - 00;19;45;01
Unknown
The first one is characterized in a prophetic book that is a you know, it's a good prophetic book, but it says this The prophet is concerned with holiness and purity and is seeking to prepare the Bride of Christ. The end time theme will be uppermost as they build the church and establish kingdom values and practices for Christ's return.

00;19;45;04 - 00;20;04;20
Unknown
So there's there's two sentences there. And, you know, I don't want to belabor the point on this particular book. It's a good book. But what I want to point out is that the first part is the prophet is going to be the role of the prophet, as the whole point of this particular chapter is going to be preparing the Bride of Christ, Purity Holiness.

00;20;04;20 - 00;20;30;01
Unknown
I totally agree with that. The reason why the prophet is going to be doing that is because there's an end time theme to the Prophets ministry to prepare for the second coming of Christ and I think that's the part that is mistaken is the reason why we prepare the bride for Jesus is because we've got a vision of how beautiful He is and we can't help but turn people to him, not because we're trying to get people ready for the second coming.

00;20;30;03 - 00;20;50;16
Unknown
That's just a given. We don't know when that's going to happen. And and so I want to juxtapose that with actually something Thomas Aquinas wrote in the Summa Theological, where he's talking about the prophets who for told the coming of Christ and he says this, the prophets you foretold the coming of Christ could not continue further than John, who with his finger pointed to Christ actually present.

00;20;50;24 - 00;21;14;00
Unknown
This is John the Baptist, you say. Nevertheless, as Jerome says on this packet passage, that's Jerome, the translator of the Latin Vulgate. This does not mean that there were no more prophets. After John four read it in the Acts of the Apostles that Agatha's and the four Maidens Daughters of Philip prophesied. So, you know, Thomas is interpreting Scripture with Scripture.

00;21;14;02 - 00;21;45;21
Unknown
John two wrote a prophetic book about the end of the church as John the beloved. And at all times there have not been there have not been lacking persons having the spirit of prophecy, not indeed for the declaration of any new doctrine of faith, but for the direction of human acts. Thus, Augustine says in the City of God that the Emperor Theodosius sent to John, who dwelt in the Egyptian desert and whom he ever knew by his ever increasing fame, to be endowed with a prophetic spirit that was one of the desert fathers, actually, and from whom he received a message assuring him of victory.

00;21;45;24 - 00;22;34;17
Unknown
So Thomas Thomas is pointing back to the is is using Augustine and Jerome because those are authoritative people on the subject. That's why he's referring to them. And he's saying that prophets still exist specifically for the direction of human acts. He doesn't mention anywhere end times eschatology, preparing for the second coming, anything like that at all. Thomas Aquinas One of the foremost theologians in Christian history, talking about the ongoing nature prophecy, does not anchor it at all in anything having to do with the end times and everything having to do with directing human acts in the sense of revealing what God is doing in the midst of humanity, revealing the nature of God, as we've

00;22;34;17 - 00;22;56;16
Unknown
said before. So so comparing those two things, contemporary authors saying the reason for prophecy is to prepare the bride. There's an end time theme versus Thomas Aquinas. The reason for prophecy is to continue to guide and direct humanity towards the father. Very different context for prophecy. So with that said, I just wanted to throw that out. That's why we're saying the shackling thing.

00;22;56;17 - 00;23;22;29
Unknown
Okay. And Murray is about to talk about what it looks like to de shackle and then looking at a particular passage in Scripture with that lens, you know what? I'll just start throwing one thing out here and paradigms and belief systems as well. Remember back in Bible school, my Mennonite Bible school, back in the day, I had a visiting prof come in and he drew the circle on the chalkboard at the top, and he labeled it God, right?

00;23;23;02 - 00;23;44;24
Unknown
And at the bottom of the chalkboard, he drew a little box and title labeled it Bible because that's Mennonites. And you could add in here, Baptist, you know, you know, whatever you want. We are grace alone, faith alone, Scripture alone. That's us, right? So and then he draws a box on top of the Bible called tradition, because. But those Catholics, when God speaks, it has to go through their tradition.

00;23;44;26 - 00;24;04;02
Unknown
That's how they read their Bible through. And I was like, thank you, Lord, that I'm no Catholic. That's awesome. I get it straight. You know, I don't have any paradigms, really belief systems. When I read the Bible, I got the Bible, Scripture and Scripture alone. That's right. I think you did say that was the cause for the fall of No, no, no salvation by faith alone.

00;24;04;11 - 00;24;21;10
Unknown
that's right. That's right. Yeah. That's, that's one of those three though. So it's it's one of the it's one of the three pillars. It really is. Yeah. So years later, I think the Pope was flying through Abbotsford or something and the Mennonites were all worked up about this because he could be the Antichrist, you know, And I mean, the Catholics back in the day used to drown Mennonites in rivers.

00;24;21;10 - 00;24;39;15
Unknown
But you guys believe in re baptizing. Well, let me drown you in a river. I mean, so, you know, there's some bad blood there and, and so sure enough, I was complaining. I mean, I think there's been some reconciliation there, you know, you anyway, But let's just say he was flying through and I was kind of bitter about it.

00;24;39;15 - 00;24;56;15
Unknown
Like, I don't know, you know, this guy and you see the Antichrist or I don't know. And the Lord says to me, So why do you believe in wearing modern clothes to church? Well, there's this guy, John Wimmer. And why do you believe in modern worship in church? Well, there's this guy, John Wimmer. And why do you believe in Kingdom Now ministry?

00;24;56;15 - 00;25;21;28
Unknown
Well, there's this guy, John Wimmer. And why why don't Mennonites believe in Danzig? Well, there's this guy, and he says, So you don't read your Bible through your traditions, at least. Do Catholics have enough guts to admit it? I'm like, Yes, sir. So, yeah, because, you know, we read our Bibles through the leaders in people that we aspire to and considered them to be holy and righteous.

00;25;22;00 - 00;25;43;26
Unknown
But does that make all their theology correct? Well, no, it doesn't. I mean, during the Great revival, I mean, I believe Wesley Whitfield. And who else was there? Well, both Edwards and yeah, Edwards was there and one of them is a you know, is a difference. You know, one of them is Armenian. One is Calvinist. Right. Like, I mean, they can't both can't be right.

00;25;43;26 - 00;26;01;03
Unknown
And they're saying that they're a manifestation of the seared backs up their theology. So so we do read and the Lord's okay with that. You know, he can he can figure it out. But but this is especially true when we're going to talk about eschatology and the prophetic I like putting it together that that we've just married that.

00;26;01;05 - 00;26;19;27
Unknown
And so I want to just go back to the text and just just look at this because it's an important texture. And so I'm going to go to the Luke one, but I'm going to just go back to start very quickly in the Matthew 24 one, mainly to read the last four verses, I think it is two verses of Matthew 23.

00;26;20;00 - 00;26;41;11
Unknown
So keep in mind these little spaces in chapter titles, they were not there. This was all one big letter. This was added. So that little gap there is not real. So I just want to read verse 37 first o Jerusalem. Jerusalem You who killed the prophets and stolen those sent to you. How often? I have longed to gather your children together as a hand gathers her chicks under her wings.

00;26;41;11 - 00;26;57;10
Unknown
But you are not willing Look, your house will be left you desolate for I tell you, you will not see me again until you say blessed. If you come as in the name of the Lord. And then they get into what are the signs of the end of the age. But I just want to point this out. Who chose what's about to happen to Jerusalem here?

00;26;57;10 - 00;27;17;28
Unknown
God or man who chose it? Man chose it Now God, God was how I longed to gather you as a hen gathers its chicks, but you were unwilling So therefore your house will be left to you desolate. This right off the bat was a response to reaping its way right. This is not what the Lord wanted to have happen.

00;27;17;28 - 00;27;36;09
Unknown
So. So here's you know, just again, we have to look at the heart of God here. Okay. So let's go to the Luke 21 version of this. Okay. Now I'm going to read this through. It's a bit of a shorter version and I'm going to read this through. And as you listen to this, everybody, I want you to just think about you can listen to it with your eyes closed.

00;27;36;09 - 00;27;51;29
Unknown
You can read the text with me if you want to. I'm going to read it in the Nivi signs at the end of the Age, starting in verse five, I want you to tell me what is your emotional reaction to this as I read this? Okay, Now, that's a very important thing because emotions are based on belief systems.

00;27;51;29 - 00;28;11;13
Unknown
If I think somebody is good, I'm going to want to run up and hug them. If I'm going to believe somebody's evil, I'm going to have fear and run away. Right? So emotions are connected to belief system. So what is your emotions here? So this starting in verse five, some of these disciples were remarking about how the temple was adorned with beautiful stones and with gifts dedicated to God.

00;28;11;19 - 00;28;31;11
Unknown
But Jesus said, As for what you see here, the time will come when not one stone will be left on another and every one will be thrown down. Teacher They asked, When will these things happen and what will be the sign they about to take place? So here we go. So everybody breathe deep. It's going to be a bit of a read here, but I think important for what we're talking about, he replied.

00;28;31;11 - 00;28;51;17
Unknown
Watch out that you are not to see for many will come in my name claiming I am he and the time is near. Do not follow them. When you hear of wars and revolutions, do not be frightened. These things must happen. But the end will come. Not right away. But the end will not come right away. Then he said Nation will rise against incarnate nation, kingdom against kingdom.

00;28;51;17 - 00;29;12;05
Unknown
There'll be earthquakes, famines and pestilence is in various places and fearful events and great silence from heaven. But before all of this, they will lay hands on you. They will deliver you to the synagogues and the prisons. You'll be brought before kings and governors. They're all account of my name. This will result in you being a witness. But make up your mind not to worry beforehand or you'll defend yourselves.

00;29;12;05 - 00;29;30;12
Unknown
Or I'll give you words and wisdom that none of your adversaries will be able to contradict. You'll be betrayed by relatives and friends and brothers. Skip a little bit. All men will hate you because of me, but not a hair of your head will perish by standing firm. You'll gain life. Okay. But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near.

00;29;30;15 - 00;29;47;06
Unknown
Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. Let those in the city get out and let those in the country not enter the city. Okay. So just so you know, just a brief breath here. Most of the time when an army is being surrounded by a city, you run into the city because that's where the protective walls are.

00;29;47;11 - 00;30;04;24
Unknown
You don't run out of the city where the army is, especially if they're trying to kill you. So there's something weird going on right there. What's that all about? Let's see. When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know it's desolation is near. Then get out and flee. For this is a time of punishment, in fulfillment for all that has been written.

00;30;04;26 - 00;30;27;01
Unknown
How dreadful it will be those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers. There will be great distress in the land and wrath against this people. They will fall by the sword and be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled until the time of the Gentiles is fulfilled, almost done. There will be signs and the sun, the moon, the stars on the earth nations will be in anguish and perplexity at the roaring and tossing of the sea.

00;30;27;09 - 00;30;50;27
Unknown
Men will faint from terror, apprehensive of what is coming on the world, and their heavenly bodies will be shaken. I just put my Depends diaper right there. That's scary stuff. Okay. Men will faint from terror at that time. They will see the son of men coming in a cloud with power and great glory. When these things take place, stand up and lift up your heads because your redemption is drawing near.

00;30;50;29 - 00;31;07;18
Unknown
And one more little piece. You told them this parable. Look at the fig tree and all the trees. When they sprout leaves, you can see yourselves and know that summer is near. Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that the Kingdom of God is near. So in other words, hey, leaves don't come out in the summer.

00;31;07;18 - 00;31;41;01
Unknown
They come out in the spring, but they tell you summer is coming, right? It's a sign. So Jesus is saying, when you see these things kingdoms approaching, right? And then he goes, I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away into all these things have happened. So. So we need to say thanks. But one thing about prophecy here, prophecy, as someone that I've read has said, it's like standing on a mountain and you're looking across all of the mountain peaks as far as you can see, and you can see all kinds of peaks, but you can't see the valleys in between them from up there.

00;31;41;01 - 00;31;57;06
Unknown
You just see peak row after peak. So you don't know what's down there. You know, you don't know how far apart they are. And that's a little bit like when people prophecy prophesied, When is this going to be fulfilled? We don't know. We can see the mountain peaks, We can see these key events. Right. And there's also kind of a now and not yet thing.

00;31;57;08 - 00;32;17;22
Unknown
And, you know, so yeah, Can you put this into the future? Absolutely you can. But let's look at in the now when Jesus says this generation will not pass away to all these things have been come true. Right. Let's just put it right there. Now if you're like me and you read this and I would suggest that your key emotion here probably is fear.

00;32;17;24 - 00;32;44;26
Unknown
You know, pregnant women. God, have mercy. Men are fainting from terror. Okay, Now, if that's the case, then why in verse nine, that does it say, don't be frightened, Verse 14, make up your mind not to worry beforehand, verse 18, but not a hair of your head will perish by standing firm, you'll gain life of verse 28 when these things begin to take place, stand up and lift up your heads because your redemption is drawing near And verse 31 even when you see these things happening.

00;32;44;26 - 00;33;08;29
Unknown
No, the Kingdom of God is here. It's all massively hopeful. That's right. You know, massively hopeful. So if you're reading this chapter and it's causing you a lot of fear, therefore your paradigm is not lining up with exactly what Jesus is saying your emotional reaction should be, which means your belief system in mind. Because like I said, I put my depends diaper there too is not lining up with the point of why the signs are given.

00;33;09;04 - 00;33;32;11
Unknown
Why are they given? When you see the leaves on the tree, you know summer is near when these things happen, lift up your head. Now we're going to come back to that. That's an important way. Lift up your head. Right. Why would you do that? Okay. Now, here is the deal with this. Now, again, keep in mind, there can be a now and then a not yet interpretation of this, but we're going to go with the original original one.

00;33;32;14 - 00;33;51;07
Unknown
So when Jesus gives this prophetic word, Jerusalem hasn't fallen yet. Let's just keep that in mind. And and Jesus gives a bunch of signs when you see these things, it's like leaves coming out of the tree, the salmon. Now remember an ax they're taking up finances for the famine that's going on in Jerusalem. And that's one thing Paul is doing.

00;33;51;07 - 00;34;10;06
Unknown
He's collecting money. And, you know, I think Agaba had actually prophesied that famine that's the famine Jesus is talking about. There's been an earthquake in Fiji. There's been a whole bunch of wars all over the country. I can't remember where they all are now. Off the top of my head. But but when people are seeing this, they're going, this is what Jesus told us.

00;34;10;09 - 00;34;28;04
Unknown
He told us all these things were going to be happening and we should be looking out for them. Right? So there's been the famine, but the Christians are okay. Why? Because it was a prophetic word telling them to prepare for the famine and that the money should be brought into Jerusalem to make sure the Christians were fine. So the famine comes, the Christians are okay.

00;34;28;06 - 00;34;56;22
Unknown
Right. So let's let's keep that in mind because the prophecy sounds a bit like Genesis 4041. Yeah, famine happens. God gives warning, preserves the family by prophecy. By prophecy. Exactly. It's there to protect the people in for. Yes, right. Same thing happening in the Book of Acts. Acts 11 is the famine prophecy. There you go. And that's what Jesus is talking about.

00;34;56;22 - 00;35;28;00
Unknown
So the Christians are okay. They're fine. yeah. Jesus taught. We better prepare. All right, good. Okay, so now what happens is that the Romans come and surround the army. That story surround the city, and then the Christians are like, Jesus talked about this. Right? When you see the army, come, get out. Well, happens is they surround Jerusalem and they hear of something going on back in Damascus and the army leaves, the Roman army leaves and all the Christians get out of the city because you're like, my goodness, we've seen the famine, we've seen the earthquake, the wars, and now this the Romans come back.

00;35;28;00 - 00;35;52;13
Unknown
I can't remember how much longer that is. Three weeks. Two months. And as you know, they kill everybody and not a Christian dies. Why? Because these things happen. They lifted up their head because their redemption was drawing. Not the by the way, the Romans came because people were raising up as messianic figures attempting to overthrow the Roman Empire.

00;35;52;13 - 00;36;13;06
Unknown
So people coming saying, I am he, I am he does that. So we we know of other messianic figures and there's lots of them that tried to overthrow the I mean, I was just reading about this the other night actually an anti writes book on the New Testament and its world is there were multiple revolts happening at that time against the Romans.

00;36;13;06 - 00;36;28;18
Unknown
It was there was a lot of chaos happening. And that's why and a lot of it had to do with other messianic figures going, you know, we're leading the revolt, God's kingdoms with us. We've got him on our side and all that stuff and acts actually talks about a few of those right off the bat. But we see that you're right.

00;36;28;18 - 00;36;46;26
Unknown
We see multiple points here. Yeah. That now we need to go back and just take a look at this because right now we're like, you know, again, I think maybe shaking in terror, but if you lift up your head for your redemption is drawing. No, this is supposed to be a redemptive passage causing you to have hope right now.

00;36;46;26 - 00;37;07;14
Unknown
How does that look? Let's talk about that just quickly and I'll tell you three little stories and prophetic stories, because I think they're fun and I might have told one before, but I'll add a couple because I love this story. I have had a friend of mine who was a worship leader in a pretty big church crash, burned out, decided to hide in the back of a bigger church in the choir.

00;37;07;17 - 00;37;22;06
Unknown
Just like just going to hide, not going to lead worship, not going to let anybody know. But as time went on, she's like, you know, I should probably tell the pastor I used to be a worship leader. I should probably. And she's in class. So we're talking about signs just like the signs, heavenly language. It points to something.

00;37;22;08 - 00;37;47;04
Unknown
So why? To get Jesus get gold, frankincense and myrrh for a baby. Signs gold for a king, frankincense for a priest, Merv for embalming. Right. It speaks so. So we were talking about this in class, and she's made this appointment to meet with the worship leader at this retreat. Big worship leader, retreat and while she's, you know, freaking out about this and should I meet with him, should I let him know or should I get back in the worship?

00;37;47;06 - 00;38;03;00
Unknown
She looks down on a diamond of her wedding ring is fallen out, big diamond and she's freaking out, you know, and tells everyone in the church. Last place I was, could you please look for it? And she's thinking, I wonder if this is one of those things Murray talks about. I wonder if it could be a sign. Heavenly language.

00;38;03;02 - 00;38;22;12
Unknown
And she's in the mall, I think, shopping. And she says, Lord, does this mean anything? And God says to her, Worship is my missing jewel. And she's like, well, now it's heartfelt. Right now it's just not. It's heartfelt. And she's telling everybody, my goodness. And she goes, Well, now, Lord, that I got it. And I might diamond back and they find it.

00;38;22;12 - 00;38;42;20
Unknown
Yeah. So she goes to the retreat and and this will hopefully make the point of lift up your head for your redemption draws near. She's got this appointment to meet with a worship leader and tell her tell them her story, what she used to do, what happened, and that the she's telling her friends about the ring and the worship is my missing jewel.

00;38;42;22 - 00;39;05;10
Unknown
While the speaker at this retreat says, you know, everybody, why don't we sit down? But I made a change in the notes that you have. We're not we're going to talk about something else today. We're going to talk about worship. God's missing jewel. and of course, all of their heads snap up. Right, Right. For they lifted up their heads because she knew that meeting with the pastor, her redemption was drawing near.

00;39;05;14 - 00;39;31;12
Unknown
Right. That's I have a friend. Another one was a great graphic artist, burned out, crashed. There's a few of these in this story today. And I went to get inner healing and just like I did at that time, and he would walk out of his business during breaks and lunch and just go to this little, little piece of woods near his business where there was a stream.

00;39;31;15 - 00;39;49;20
Unknown
And as he's getting healing about their roots in his life that have grown, that grow in the wrong way, he just has to do something. So he starts to make a little dam of water around this tree that's kind of exposed in the in the creek thing. Lord As the roots in my life are coming up, could I just could like, like it is with this tree roots are being exposed.

00;39;49;20 - 01;25;24;15
Unknown
Could you expose the roots in my life? So every lunch, every every day he's at work, you would do this and he'd go get inner healing, get counseling.