Unraveling Scripture: The Bridal Paradigm

In the latest episode of Voices from the Desert, Joshua Hoffert and Murray Dueck explore the concept of bridal intimacy in Scripture.  When the Pharisees expected a king, Jesus compared the kingdom to a wedding. This is a throughline in all of scripture. What would change about how we read certain passages if we saw it through the lens of bridal intimacy? Murray and Josh dive into Matthew 24 and the prophecies of Jesus through a fresh lens. Jump in and lets dive deep!

For more about Murray Dueck, visit: https://www.samuelsmantle.com/

For more about Joshua Hoffert, visit: https://www.windministries.ca/

For the episode Murray and Josh reference, click here: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/de-shackling-prophecy-from-end-times-eschatology/id1663535335?i=1000637212179

Transcript

00;00;17;22 - 00;00;32;24
Joshua Hoffert
And this is one of the things that Murray just said right before we're go live. We're talking about this, of recording, to talk about this, Murray said. If you can't hear the voice of Jesus, all you're left with is to six gods. And you don't want to talk when you're talking about right?

00;00;32;27 - 00;00;34;14
Murray Dueck
I agree with myself.

00;00;34;16 - 00;00;35;16
Joshua Hoffert
Yes you do.

00;00;35;19 - 00;00;36;17
Murray Dueck
So let's go.

00;00;36;19 - 00;00;37;23
Joshua Hoffert
I mean, you have a contract.

00;00;37;25 - 00;00;42;22
Joshua Hoffert
Contradict yourself.

00;00;42;25 - 00;00;58;24
Joshua Hoffert
You.

00;00;58;26 - 00;01;02;09
Joshua Hoffert
Need to.

00;01;02;12 - 00;01;15;05
Joshua Hoffert
Welcome, everybody, to another episode of voices from the desert. Oh, that's a.

00;01;15;07 - 00;01;19;02
Joshua Hoffert
That's the desert call right there. That was Murray's heart cry.

00;01;19;03 - 00;01;19;20
Murray Dueck
Yes.

00;01;19;22 - 00;01;20;20
Joshua Hoffert
From the desert?

00;01;20;20 - 00;01;29;14
Murray Dueck
Yes. Wondering once again why I didn't have to back up. Put booted up on my phone at this moment. I always remember right there. Oh, I.

00;01;29;16 - 00;01;48;13
Joshua Hoffert
Yeah, yeah, yeah I saw I saw a video the other day. This is like just totally inconsequential of my. It was a a woman in labor wearing a Chewbacca mask. And the caption was, my wife lost a bet and she has to go through labor wearing the Chewbacca was like, oh my gosh, the kind of things we won't.

00;01;48;13 - 00;01;51;03
Murray Dueck
Put on the leave that. Then I was.

00;01;51;03 - 00;01;52;16
Joshua Hoffert
Like, oh, just.

00;01;52;17 - 00;02;03;02
Murray Dueck
I really don't know what that bit was because it was just like, which kids are going to walk into the front door today after school? I'll read that. Yeah. That's not enough of a bat, you know, like if.

00;02;03;02 - 00;02;17;15
Joshua Hoffert
It's a mat. Well, the mask is the one where you it makes the Chewbacca noise, you know? So. So it's just a woman in labor making two noises. I was like, I can look at this thing for, like, two seconds. And I was like, I. This is so uncomfortable, you know? I have to look away.

00;02;17;15 - 00;02;19;03
Murray Dueck
You'll never get that out of your head.

00;02;19;03 - 00;02;27;05
Joshua Hoffert
The rest of you, I'll never, I never will. That's right. And every time you talk about talking up the Chewbacca noise, I'll think about the woman in labor wearing the Chewbacca.

00;02;27;05 - 00;02;29;01
Murray Dueck
I'm going to go look for that.

00;02;29;09 - 00;02;34;05
Joshua Hoffert
I'll try and find it. So I send it to me. I can, to fill your imagination as well.

00;02;34;05 - 00;02;40;07
Murray Dueck
It's hard not to see it, actually. Yeah. Every picture person out there right now is like squinting.

00;02;40;08 - 00;02;45;20
Joshua Hoffert
Yeah. That's right, that's right. Yeah. So this is what we talk about on voices from the desert, right?

00;02;45;22 - 00;02;47;00
Murray Dueck
Stuff like that.

00;02;47;02 - 00;03;05;17
Joshua Hoffert
Yeah. Weird stuff like that. That's right. So welcome everybody. to, podcast where Murray and I talk about weird things. Yeah. And, my name is Joshua Hoffert. I'm, with a ministry called Wind Ministries where I wife and I started a number of years ago. And I'm here with my good friend Murray Duke, of Samuels Mantle Ministries.

00;03;05;17 - 00;03;10;04
Joshua Hoffert
He started. Or Samuels mantle. I don't know if you say Samuels Mantle Ministries.

00;03;10;07 - 00;03;11;11
Murray Dueck
I'm hanging out with.

00;03;11;14 - 00;03;29;18
Joshua Hoffert
And. That's right. There you go. So Samuels mantle, which is a, you know, in its inception, a prophetic training school, but it's so much more than that as well. And so we all are our goal in everything we do in life is to help people know the heart of God and be radically transformed by that.

00;03;29;18 - 00;03;53;02
Joshua Hoffert
And so there's all kinds of ways that we do that. And this podcast happens to be one of those we like having conversations with people who have encountered God. Yeah. Who have walked through the desert of their own heart. Right. The desert has become in in Christianity, the the metaphor for the journey of the inner life. And we look back at the ancient Christians who actually went to the desert, namely the Desert Fathers.

00;03;53;02 - 00;04;05;23
Joshua Hoffert
In the Desert Mothers. We look at the contemplative authors, who who journey through the desert of the heart and, and so what we like to talk about is what it looks like when the spirit has terraformed your inner being.

00;04;05;24 - 00;04;07;00
Murray Dueck
Yeah.

00;04;07;02 - 00;04;33;22
Joshua Hoffert
And and what change comes over you. And, and so this is, this is what we do for those of you that are new to the show, this is what we do. We interview people or you and I talk about things that we're passionate about and you, if you're listening, and you've been on the journey with us, you'll know that in the last few months, we've we've talked with, our good friend Greg Musselman, from voice of the martyrs, and I just actually had lunch with Greg.

00;04;33;22 - 00;04;57;08
Joshua Hoffert
Also, he happened to be in my area. Greg is an awesome, awesome guy. we've we've interviewed you. You've heard Steve Stuart, with Impact Nations and the impact they're having on a global missions area and how the Lord has expanded his view of the gospel. And, and I loved his challenges. Your gospel big enough. And, I'm a really, really good challenge.

00;04;57;08 - 00;05;24;11
Joshua Hoffert
And, and we had an interview with our good friend Michael Sullivan, and that was wonderful. Two wonderful talking about brain science and spiritual formation, formative practices and healing. And, Michael, if you're Michael is an awesome guy, and Michael's put out a number of things, actually, we've been really hesitant to comment on all the Ihop stuff that's happening, and it just seems like there's one event happening after another.

00;05;24;11 - 00;05;42;17
Joshua Hoffert
But for those of you that are, wondering, well, what did Josh and Murray think about this? well, you can really just go look at what Michael's been saying. And because he was on staff there, he knew Mike Bickle, and, and he's put out. So just just to go look at Michael Sullivan's Facebook feed and go, yeah, there's some really helpful things there.

00;05;43;20 - 00;06;06;29
Joshua Hoffert
so, yeah. So this is what we do. We want to have our friends on here and give their ideas room to breathe and talk about their stories and see how God has impacted them. and, and so today, the special guest that we have for today is Murray's ideas. Yeah. That's a special guest. Yes. So you're in for a very scary.

00;06;06;29 - 00;06;09;12
Joshua Hoffert
This is almost a Halloween episode. If you think about this special.

00;06;09;14 - 00;06;11;22
Murray Dueck
I actually live inside my head.

00;06;11;24 - 00;06;49;03
Joshua Hoffert
That's right, that's right. That's very frank. That's right. And and so what we're going to talk about and I'll turn this over to Murray in just a second. We're going to talk about today. And actually we're setting the stage for doing a series of probably a few more conversations about this, depending on how far we get today. but about about the bridal paradigm in Scripture and the bridal paradigm, of, well, the bridal paradigm in the, in everything, really, I guess it's not just like when the prayer life or anything, but, and, and this is one of the things that Murray just said right before we were going live and we were

00;06;49;03 - 00;07;01;01
Joshua Hoffert
talking about this or recording. We talked about this, Murray said. If you can't hear the voice of Jesus, all you're left with is moral codes. And and you know, when it taught, when you're talking about bridal intimacy.

00;07;01;01 - 00;07;02;16
Murray Dueck
I agree with myself.

00;07;02;18 - 00;07;09;23
Joshua Hoffert
Yes, you do agree with yourself. you haven't you haven't convicted contradicting yourself yet and and I just I want to bring up one other thing too, is that.

00;07;09;24 - 00;07;12;19
Murray Dueck
Yeah, we need to we say yes.

00;07;12;21 - 00;07;30;06
Joshua Hoffert
When we were going through the Prophet the Prophecy series and we were looking at Matthew 24, and I think it was Matthew 24 that you had brought up. It was it was the prophecy of Jesus about the great coming, the fall of the temple.

00;07;30;08 - 00;07;31;08
Murray Dueck
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00;07;31;09 - 00;07;51;09
Joshua Hoffert
Right. The, the calamity that was going to come. And I've actually been studying that passage now. And it's interesting because the disciples asked Jesus three questions, when is this going to happen? Because he talks about he says the temple is going to fall. Not one stone will be left. They said, when is this going to happen? What will be the sign of it happening?

00;07;51;09 - 00;08;15;25
Joshua Hoffert
And what's going to what's going to be the sign of your eventual coming? And and Jesus, if you if you understand historical context and you brought this up when we were talking about Matthew 24, Jesus isn't talking about the signs that are about his second coming. He's talking about the signs that are going to happen, that his kingdom vision is now embodied on the earth.

00;08;15;28 - 00;08;28;14
Joshua Hoffert
The temple falling is going to be one of them. But he's going, look at these things and have hope. And that's a different way of reading the the text. And it starts from this, this paradigm of bridal intimacy.

00;08;28;14 - 00;08;30;12
Murray Dueck
So yeah, it really does go for it.

00;08;30;12 - 00;08;30;29
Joshua Hoffert
Murray.

00;08;31;02 - 00;08;43;05
Murray Dueck
Well, we should maybe just review that super quick. I mean, maybe enough for people to go back and listen to that. The fullness of that, you know. Do you remember which one? It was in the series of, a prophetic manifesto?

00;08;43;12 - 00;08;51;13
Joshua Hoffert
That was a, yeah, it was I can't I don't have the, the oh, I can put up I can put a link in the description.

00;08;51;13 - 00;08;52;20
Murray Dueck
Oh, that might be a good idea.

00;08;52;23 - 00;08;59;03
Joshua Hoffert
Because it was that it was the concept of of these shackle.

00;08;59;05 - 00;08;59;12
Murray Dueck
And.

00;08;59;14 - 00;09;01;03
Joshua Hoffert
Sometimes eschatology.

00;09;01;07 - 00;09;02;00
Murray Dueck
The were episode of.

00;09;02;00 - 00;09;04;25
Joshua Hoffert
Prophetic ministry from end times eschatology. Yes.

00;09;04;27 - 00;09;17;27
Murray Dueck
Because that's, that's going to come up today because as we talk about bridal intimacy, which of course we're going to find the fulfillment of that in the book of revelation, which is, again, most often interpreted as end time eschatology. And it is there. So we're you know, I'm not against that.

00;09;18;02 - 00;09;21;03
Joshua Hoffert
The last two chapter, the last two chapters are at least there.

00;09;21;08 - 00;09;44;13
Murray Dueck
Yeah. So yeah. Yeah, yeah. So so everyone again, let's go back to the. So just a quick summation of Matthew 24. If you look that through because you want to look at the heart of it. And this is why the bridal paradigm is so important. And when you, when you, you look at those questions and you look at a Jesus's response, right?

00;09;44;19 - 00;10;07;12
Murray Dueck
You have to listen to what Jesus is saying from two points of view. a pagan or, you know, a non-Christian, Jewish, you know, person listening to it who doesn't want anything to do with Jesus or doesn't know him, or a follower of Jesus who hears his voice and knows that he is loving and introduced him to ABBA the Father and has sent His Spirit into our heart, who cries, ABBA, father!

00;10;07;14 - 00;10;28;24
Murray Dueck
That those are two different paradigms, right? And again, when you read it through, you know you will see. Jesus says very clearly, you know, make up your mind ahead of time not to worry. and then you have the pagan view of, oh, you know, men will die with fear and trembling, right? Which, you know, it's.

00;10;29;01 - 00;10;50;07
Murray Dueck
But he says, no, you. So there's two camps listening to this thing, right. And and so most of the time we listen to that from camp one. Oh my goodness. Everything's going to die and blow up and it's going to be hell. But Jesus says make up your mind ahead of time. Not to worry. When you see these things happening, lift up your head because your redemption is drawing nigh, right?

00;10;50;08 - 00;11;13;01
Murray Dueck
Right? So, and the reason is, you know, if we just cut to the chase and you can go back and listen to the full, you know, view of this back in, Prophetic Manifesto episode two, shackling the prophetic from endtime eschatology. That'll be the one it's in. But yeah, but he says, when you see these things happening, realize summer is near.

00;11;13;01 - 00;11;33;10
Murray Dueck
So, you know, when you see the leaves come out, you know summer's near leaves don't come out in the summer. They come out in the spring. Meaning this points to something. Something's coming when you see this thing. So when he says when he says, don't worry. When you see earthquakes, wars, famines, don't worry about that. Right? When you see these things happen, lift up your heads because you're redemption is drawing near.

00;11;33;12 - 00;11;56;14
Murray Dueck
And remember there there was a famine there. And remember Megabus gave the prophecy Paul collected money, descend to Jerusalem for the famine. So they knew it was coming. But the Christians were okay. Right? You know the things that we're freaking out about. Hey, Christians are okay. And one of the one of the things was when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, get out of the city free.

00;11;56;14 - 00;12;04;16
Murray Dueck
You know, the destructions. You know, when a when a city surrounded by armies usually run into cities, you don't run out of cities because there's an army out there, right? Right.

00;12;04;18 - 00;12;34;26
Joshua Hoffert
So it's it says and it says this. Actually, I came across this as I've been reading through it and thinking about what you had said. you inspired me. Oh, it says that where where, where the Eagles. How does it say where the eagles are gathered? let's see, I'm just going to bring it up real quick actually, because this just even further cements what you were saying, because I've always read that passage in Matthew 24, passage through the lens of end times eschatology.

00;12;34;26 - 00;12;36;21
Murray Dueck
Well, yeah. Exactly right. That's how we're taught it.

00;12;36;21 - 00;12;58;28
Joshua Hoffert
And, it says it's he said, where is it? Where? Yeah, where there where the where the where the carcass is. The eagles will gather. One translation says the vultures were well, gather. Right. Well, I found this out as I was reading about this. One of the battle standards for the Roman army was the eagle.

00;12;59;03 - 00;13;00;18
Murray Dueck
Oh, wow. Yeah.

00;13;00;21 - 00;13;26;08
Joshua Hoffert
So when and then the abomination of desolation. Right. So another thing Jesus mentions in that passage and, and the abomination of desolation being the one of the pagan gods being set up in the midst of, the city of Jerusalem. Yeah. This is the eagle was on the battle standard of the Roman army that surrounded Jerusalem. So when he says when they eat, where the carcass is, where everything is about to die, you'll see the eagle surrounding it.

00;13;26;08 - 00;13;28;26
Joshua Hoffert
And when they would have looked at the Roman armies surrounding Jerusalem.

00;13;28;26 - 00;13;30;21
Murray Dueck
Would have seen eagles every.

00;13;30;25 - 00;13;47;28
Joshua Hoffert
Eagle standards, which would be the abomination of desolation. So. So you can imagine when these guys see all this stuff and they're going, oh my goodness, there's another thing. He said, oh my goodness, there's another thing. He said, oh my goodness, there's another thing. He said, yeah, right. Because all everything he says in Matthew 24 finds its fulfillment.

00;13;47;28 - 00;13;50;24
Joshua Hoffert
And basically in the next 40 years.

00;13;50;26 - 00;13;51;21
Murray Dueck
Exactly what.

00;13;51;24 - 00;14;07;26
Joshua Hoffert
It does. He's prophesying time. That's right. He's prophesying the destruction of the temple. And when the disciples say, what's going to be the sign for the end of the age, they're not talking about end times, right? They're talking about the end of this, the present Jerusalem kingdom, a.

00;14;07;29 - 00;14;16;13
Murray Dueck
Jewish yes temple mindset. Yeah, Jesus has fulfilled and the destruction of.

00;14;16;13 - 00;14;37;17
Joshua Hoffert
Yeah, exactly, exactly. So all of those things, he says, look at all these things because these are all going to be confirmation that the Kingdom message I've brought is coming to fruition. Yeah, that's what all these things are going to be right. And and they you'll see the Son of Man ascending. Well they saw that. Yeah. He's going to be with the angels.

00;14;37;17 - 00;14;52;12
Joshua Hoffert
They saw that right. All these signs happened within the next. Some of them happened within the next few weeks. Some of them happened within the next few decades. And they're looking back and going, wow, we can trust him. Right? So that's a totally different lens.

00;14;52;18 - 00;15;12;15
Murray Dueck
And the reason and again, that lens is what we're going to come to today here in a minute. So we're just kind of setting it up that you know read it through. There's a couple of ways you can you know, Jesus is talking to you could say two different lenses of people through that passage, those who are freaking out and those who are like, you know, when you see these things, lift up your head for your redemption is near.

00;15;12;17 - 00;15;23;25
Murray Dueck
And so when the Roman army comes, so there's been an earthquake in Phrygia, there's been the famine that is prophesied. There's been wars and rumors of wars in Spain and a whole bunch of places. So I mean, by.

00;15;23;25 - 00;15;41;16
Joshua Hoffert
The way, rumors of wars. Well, I just keep that thought. Rumors of wars. About 10 or 15 years after Jesus said that one of the Roman emperors was actually trying to set up an image of Zeus in the Temple of Jerusalem. Wow. And he wasn't able to do it, but that was his intent. He was trying to get it done right.

00;15;41;16 - 00;15;46;22
Joshua Hoffert
So we've got wars and rumors of wars. This stuff is all starting to coalesce. So.

00;15;46;24 - 00;15;47;25
Murray Dueck
And they're watching.

00;15;47;27 - 00;15;48;00
Joshua Hoffert
It.

00;15;48;00 - 00;16;11;02
Murray Dueck
All right. Yes. So so the Roman army come. So this is historical Josephus talks about this. So Josephus, you know, the you know, his Jewish guy, his story and of his time period. The Roman army comes around Jerusalem. And then I guess there's an outbreak or something happening in Damascus, and the Roman army leaves and the Christians go, oh my goodness, this is what Jesus said.

00;16;11;08 - 00;16;33;18
Murray Dueck
When the armies around, you know, Jerusalem get out. So all the Christians get out of Jerusalem. About a month later or three weeks, the old Roman army comes back and they still they stay there until they wipeout Jerusalem and kill, what, 70,000 people? And no Christians die, right? I think you can read about that on more. And you know William Barkley's commentaries, if you're looking.

00;16;33;20 - 00;16;38;10
Murray Dueck
But there's there's you know, this is a Josephus. So so think about that. The very one.

00;16;38;10 - 00;16;41;11
Joshua Hoffert
Of the one of the historians of the of that.

00;16;41;12 - 00;16;42;14
Murray Dueck
Time period of.

00;16;42;14 - 00;16;43;01
Joshua Hoffert
That time period.

00;16;43;02 - 00;17;05;24
Murray Dueck
Actually one of the key ones that we know about the life of Jesus is Josephus. So he's got to think about the very signs that we read that scare the poop out of us, save the Christians lives. Why? Because they look at Jesus through the beloved paradigm, not through, judging paradigm. Right. They're having a different they're having a relational paradigm here.

00;17;05;25 - 00;17;18;20
Murray Dueck
And then finding the beloved in the midst rather than like, oh boy, oh boy, you know, we're all going to die, right? So very, very important how we're looking at things. Because you need to read the book of revelation like that too.

00;17;18;22 - 00;17;24;23
Joshua Hoffert
Will you think of their conversation with Jesus when Jesus points to the temple and says, not one stone.

00;17;24;23 - 00;17;24;29
Murray Dueck
Can you.

00;17;24;29 - 00;17;42;05
Joshua Hoffert
Imagine is going to be left? And they go, help us understand this, right? That's intimacy language, right and right. They don't just walk away from it and go, oh no, they walk away from it and they go, hey, let's have a conversation with them about this, right? They go, can you tell us when this is going to happen?

00;17;42;08 - 00;17;51;28
Joshua Hoffert
Can you tell us what's a sign that it's about to happen? And can you tell us also when your kingdom's in it come so they feel they feel very free to ask him for clarifying.

00;17;52;13 - 00;17;53;11
Murray Dueck
yeah.

00;17;53;13 - 00;17;55;08
Joshua Hoffert
You know, clarifying information.

00;17;55;11 - 00;18;34;06
Murray Dueck
And so you got to think about all that stuff. Then all the revelation that happens between what Jesus is telling the disciples and its fulfillment as God speaking to his bride, he's speaking to his bride. Why is he speaking to protect her, to love unheard of for his spirit out upon her, right? Because again, like if you don't have a relationship with Jesus where you can hear his voice, all you have is moral code and, and and that's, that's a really important thing that to keep in mind that, you know, one of my friends who's a minister, you know, he's he's he and he's more in the evangelical church world.

00;18;34;12 - 00;18;53;00
Murray Dueck
But but and I'm a little bit but we he's way more than me and and so he teaches people how to hear God's voice. And if I've said this before, please forgive me. But I think it's an important point here about about God's voice. And so he goes to these churches and the elders or maybe even some of the pastors will go, well, I don't believe God speaks today.

00;18;53;02 - 00;19;13;05
Murray Dueck
How are you? How why? And this is his cunning tactic to open that door. He says, well, do you believe in conviction? And of course they're going to say yes, right? Because, you know, moral code, moral code, conviction is moral code. And he says, okay, you believe in conviction. Do you believe God can convict to a particular sin?

00;19;13;07 - 00;19;31;28
Murray Dueck
Yes. Done at a particular time? Yes. Do you believe he can give you like a sense of how to make it right? Yes. Isn't that God speaking? And they'll go, well, I never thought of it that way. I guess it is right. He's talking to you about what you've done, and he goes, well, isn't that interesting? We all believe God speaks.

00;19;32;01 - 00;19;53;14
Murray Dueck
But then again we tell everybody God is ABBA, he's daddy, he's father, but he can only talk to us when we're bad. Does that make sense? And they're like, see, there's a quandary there. If you're God can only talk to you when you're bad. Is that a loving father in your theology? And you have to come to the agreement that it's not right?

00;19;53;14 - 00;20;16;12
Murray Dueck
Yeah. And because God doesn't want a relationship based on your sin, he wants a relationship based on him walking with you and changing you into the image of Christ for a purpose of bridal intimacy. Because it goes somewhere. Right? And and that's really important. So and again, you know what? You know, I think it was seed Basil said, right.

00;20;16;25 - 00;20;33;08
Murray Dueck
when God starts working with somebody, it's kind of slave master. you know, I've been saved from hell. You know, I'll do whatever you want, but, you know, you could kill me. I don't want to go to hell. Right. and then it goes, you know, kind of master servant, you know, then it your relationship is really based on.

00;20;33;14 - 00;20;53;25
Murray Dueck
I want to serve him. I want to do the right thing. But after that, there is this father daughter, father son thing that goes on. And you're you walk into this higher level of, of intimacy, right? And, and and as you walk with the Lord, you know, we do develop through these seasons and patterns and there are different symbols used out throughout scripture for that.

00;20;53;25 - 00;21;15;04
Murray Dueck
And, you know, one is father daughter, father son, Jesus being big brother. But but the most predominant one is the bridal intimacy. And and and again, this kind of freaks guys out a little bit. And yeah, you know, we have to remember it is symbolism. So there's nothing to be afraid here. But we're talking about a very real reality of our Spirit and God.

00;21;15;04 - 00;21;43;09
Murray Dueck
Spirit being one and something happening in eternity where there is going to be a joining of mankind kind. And Jesus, that brings us kind of into the Trinity. And there's a real thing that's there is no other language that even comes close to describing this, this you, your desire on the heart of Jesus Christ and and to mature to the place of of seeing that.

00;21;43;15 - 00;22;06;18
Murray Dueck
But but to see it, you need to be able to hear his voice and know that he loves you and know that you're in transition, and that he wants a bride who spotless and pure, that and there's this developmental process that we go through, but it's on to something very glorious. You know, I used to say, you know, if you if you want to you know, the best way I can describe this is and then I'll, I'll kick it over to you.

00;22;06;18 - 00;22;22;29
Murray Dueck
Back to you. Josh. but but I remember and I might have said this before again. So please forgive you, but it's so burnt into my memory. But when I read the book of Revelation, I think of Pride and Prejudice, the, you know, with Colin Farrell, I think it was called Firth. I get those guys make Colin Firth.

00;22;22;29 - 00;22;24;09
Joshua Hoffert
Yeah. Colin Firth. Yeah.

00;22;24;09 - 00;22;25;25
Murray Dueck
And he played that.

00;22;25;28 - 00;22;29;05
Joshua Hoffert
I know this because my I, my wife just told me this like, dude.

00;22;29;07 - 00;22;48;25
Murray Dueck
Are you serious? Oh that's funny coming up, you know, being a center fielder, I hated that show. We had we had the DV, you know, we had the VHS tapes, and it was like six VHS tapes. It was long, and I couldn't sit in the room. It was poor. Mr.. You know, Mr. Darcy, he is always misunderstood.

00;22;48;26 - 00;23;08;15
Murray Dueck
Everybody thinks he's a he, you know, he's the bad guy villain. And I'm like, oh, a burden bearing. I can't, I couldn't handle it. And he'll finally one day and this is my view of the book of revelation. I snuck downstairs when no one was up, and I grab the last VHS tape and I forward it to the very end.

00;23;08;17 - 00;23;24;29
Murray Dueck
And you know what? Mr. Darcy gets married and it's great. It's a wonderful ending. And then after that, when people wanted to watch it, I could sit down very calmly and I could watch all of them. They're like, hey, this is a real change for you. You can watch it. Oh yeah, it's okay. I'm okay now. But it's because I knew the ending, right?

00;23;24;29 - 00;23;48;08
Murray Dueck
I know where it goes. And you know what? So do we. We know where mankind goes. It goes to a it goes to a wedding, you know, the wedding feast of the lamb. And then the very last comments, of course, in the book of revelation are the spirit and the bride say, come. So I mean the whole history of mankind from the Garden of Eden, right to the very last scene.

00;23;48;10 - 00;24;10;26
Murray Dueck
It's about this union with God. And and to be able to see it that way is very, very important. How to frame our our reference of what's on the desire of Christ in his heart, relationally and why we want to hear his voice, too. So I don't know if you want to add anything to that, Josh, before we jump in, but I if you want to know where something goes, read the last page and we get to do that.

00;24;10;29 - 00;24;11;25
Murray Dueck
Yeah.

00;24;11;27 - 00;24;35;00
Joshua Hoffert
Well, I'm, I'm thinking about just in the context of the last page there. Right. The, the, revelation 21 and 22 and the, the, the, the characterization of all things being renewed. Yeah. In revelation 21 and 22 and how sometimes we think of those this is, this is I love the language that Wimber popularized the language, but it was George Ladd.

00;24;35;00 - 00;24;56;09
Joshua Hoffert
It was his language. The overlapping kingdoms, right? The here and now and the not yet of the coming kingdom. And so Jesus and going back to Matthew 24, right. Jesus says that the the kingdom, his kingdom vision will be inaugurated and and proof of its coming is going to be the destruction of the Temple wars, rumors of wars, all this stuff.

00;24;56;09 - 00;25;18;27
Joshua Hoffert
So what he came and brought to the disciples took them 40 years to see the culmination of. And so he's, you know, wars and rumors of wars and great calamities happening. But the kingdom is starting to come. So it's not like the, the, the Old Kingdom being the paradigms of the fallen world, have been totally done away with.

00;25;19;03 - 00;25;20;27
Joshua Hoffert
They are being done away with.

00;25;20;27 - 00;25;21;18
Murray Dueck
Yes.

00;25;21;21 - 00;25;47;01
Joshua Hoffert
Right. And so our the kingdom of God is here. It's now, but it's not quite yet as well. So we see that picture in revelation 21 and 22, the kingdom coming, creation being redeemed. And it's all pictured under the guise of a bride. Yeah. This is that's what 21 revelation 21 starts with. It says, I saw a new heaven and a new earth.

00;25;47;08 - 00;26;07;23
Joshua Hoffert
The for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. There's no longer any see. I saw the holy city, the New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride, beautifully dressed her husband. And so all of this, all of this redemption language is around the context of a bride prepared. And then it goes on.

00;26;07;23 - 00;26;28;24
Joshua Hoffert
At one point it says, an angel comes up to him and says, come, I'll show you the bride, the wife of the lamb, who kind of says, the and, and he carried me away in the spirit to a mountain great and high, and showed me the holy city, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God. Now, I'm not going to go through the whole thing, but, just suffice it to say, you and I were talking about this a little bit earlier.

00;26;28;27 - 00;26;52;01
Joshua Hoffert
Suffice it to say, what he describes, what John describes at the angel shows him which is the bride. Right. Come, I will show you the bride. And what John describes first is the city coming down. Then is the temple in the city? Yeah. And then is a river coming from the temple. And then is the, the, the tree of life on both sides of the river.

00;26;52;03 - 00;27;02;23
Joshua Hoffert
So this is not just an isolated picture because we can look back first. We can look back to Ezekiel 40 to 48. Yeah. See the exact same picture. Right. The actual.

00;27;02;23 - 00;27;03;05
Murray Dueck
Picture.

00;27;03;13 - 00;27;28;03
Joshua Hoffert
The redeemed the. And this is the, the, the the prophecy that God is going to restore and renew what had been lost. This is because as he keel 4248, comes after Babylon, comes in, destroys Jerusalem, destroys the temple. Ezekiel has this this vision where he's taken up to a mountain. He's shown, a new temple. The new temple has.

00;27;28;03 - 00;27;47;19
Joshua Hoffert
And it's in the middle of the temple is the Holy of Holies. A river flows from this place. It has the the, river. the tree of life that brings healing to the nations on both sides of the river. So John is seeing the same thing. He's going, guys, this thing I saw in revelation 21 and 22 is also what I saw.

00;27;47;20 - 00;28;03;01
Joshua Hoffert
What Ezekiel saw in is equal 40 to 48. And and so then anytime you see that, you've got to go all there calling us back to imagery that they're already very familiar with. Which brings us all the way back to the garden.

00;28;03;05 - 00;28;03;26
Murray Dueck
Yes, to.

00;28;03;26 - 00;28;14;22
Joshua Hoffert
The Garden of Eden, where we see a river, right? We see one of the mainstays of the Garden of Eden is a river and a tree whose leaves are healing the tree.

00;28;14;22 - 00;28;18;05
Murray Dueck
Exactly what we just saw in Book of Revelation. There it is.

00;28;18;08 - 00;28;41;00
Joshua Hoffert
Revelation 21 John saying, this is the end and the beginning are the same thing. This is what he's saying. What you're seeing here is the same thing saying you're not seeing what we're bringing. The whole thing's being tied all the way back together. Because when they say we see the tree whose leaves are for the healing, people go, oh, that's a tree of life.

00;28;41;00 - 00;29;06;13
Joshua Hoffert
That's from the very beginning. We see a river, that's Ezekiel, that's Genesis one, two and three. Yeah. So so they're seeing it in in that language, right? Yeah. And they're saying the Jerusalem, the temple, all this is the bride being realized on the earth. Okay, okay. So think about this in context of Genesis one, in context of revelation 21 and 22 from the very beginning were Genesis one and two.

00;29;06;17 - 00;29;29;00
Joshua Hoffert
Specifically, Genesis two out of the side of Adam says that it says the city comes down right. The city comes down, and it's the bride adorned. Okay. So Adam, he's formed of the dust, and God comes down and breathes life into him. Okay, so we've seen the same imagery here. We see the city of God being the man.

00;29;29;00 - 00;29;45;04
Joshua Hoffert
Adam breathed life into Adam and then out of his side, his bride is born, right? Which is Eve. So we see this in Genesis one. So, so he's redeeming all of creation. And now, instead of a single person, it's a whole city of people.

00;29;45;06 - 00;29;46;22
Murray Dueck
Right? Oh yeah.

00;29;46;25 - 00;30;15;27
Joshua Hoffert
And we also. And so then we look at okay, on the cross, right on the cross, which is the tree. Paul calls it a tree. Yeah. Right. Whose leaves, being Jesus are healing for the nations out of the side. Right. The side is pierced. Water and blood come out. Out of the side is birthed the bride. So we see this parallels all throughout Scripture which talk about the coming bride.

00;30;16;00 - 00;30;38;02
Joshua Hoffert
And the bride is the preparation of the people of God. The bride is the church. The bride is the ones called out of the world. The bride is those that God are passionate about, the people that he's passionate about. Right. This is John. John 316. God so loved the world. He was passionate about his bride that he went, let me go make this reality.

00;30;38;09 - 00;31;09;03
Joshua Hoffert
Yeah, right. And this is that this is the paradigm. When John's going revelation 21, the angel showed me the bride. He's going, guys, that's like Genesis one. It's all happening now, right? It's all happening now. The bride is coming and it's here and now and it's present. It's not yet fully realized, but it is fully realized. And so you could say this, the the church, the people of God, we are in a way where the present fulfillment of the future promise.

00;31;09;06 - 00;31;29;24
Joshua Hoffert
And so what what you know, our our call to lay our lives down, to love one another, to look like Jesus on an individual level, on a corporate level that the church in its call to feed the poor, to take care of the to, to find the lost, introduce the world to what Jesus actually looks like. And the church really needs a reintroduction to what Jesus looks like today.

00;31;30;24 - 00;31;49;14
Joshua Hoffert
but that's that's what John saying. Look, the the end in the beginning of the same thing and he's redeeming everything. And now it looks totally different because in in it's interesting in Genesis one two and three the, the when you look at the and I'll kick this back over to you Mary, because I don't even know if this is going where we were thinking it would go.

00;31;49;16 - 00;32;15;14
Joshua Hoffert
Genesis. By the time you get to the Tower of Babel, it's clear that cities are a bad idea. all right. It's very clear. It's, it's all human. Wickedness is found in cities, in Babel and, in the cities in Noah's time that we see Sodom and Gomorrah. It's like this, this we're looking consistently at people gathering in cities and wicked things happening there.

00;32;15;17 - 00;32;40;27
Joshua Hoffert
That's a thread that's happening throughout the first, well, throughout basically the book of Genesis. Yeah. And, and so what you see at the end now is the city is where people gathered and attempted to reach God, right? This is Babel. They attempted to reach God. So you see a city that God had to strike down, and now you see at the end a city that God has established as his people.

00;32;40;29 - 00;33;03;02
Joshua Hoffert
So what begins as one person, Adam the bride, is birthed out of Eve now is a whole city of people whom God will inhabit in the midst of. And this will be his bride, beautifully adorned. Not so. It's so basically a city we think we can talk about. A city as a single individual, right? We talk about we even infer genders to our cities, right?

00;33;03;02 - 00;33;03;25
Murray Dueck
Like, yes, for sure.

00;33;03;26 - 00;33;36;29
Joshua Hoffert
City she the city right. We talk this way about our cities individual identity, but then we also think of our city as the composite makeup of the people inside. And so the heavenly Jerusalem, adorned as a bride, all the people worshiping God, giving praise to him, one single entity, but also made up of millions of entities. And so God's going, I'm going to incorporate in my end times plan when I redeem everything, some of human, some of the human ideas which came in the form of the city.

00;33;37;06 - 00;33;59;17
Joshua Hoffert
So we see the city is evil in the Old Testament. We see he's redeemed everything, and now he's even inviting people into a city. So it's like, it's like the whole story never changes and it's always about the bride. That's the that's the the very beginning. God creates people. God walks with people. God creates one that he's not.

00;33;59;17 - 00;34;08;19
Joshua Hoffert
That's no longer alone because he creates Eve, the perfect counterpart. It's just it's the same story happening all over and over and over and over again.

00;34;08;21 - 00;34;10;27
Murray Dueck
And, really?

00;34;10;29 - 00;34;12;11
Joshua Hoffert
Yeah.

00;34;12;13 - 00;34;33;28
Murray Dueck
Well, you just to add to that, you know, it's interesting, this this Brian Simmons, you know, the passion translation. He's the, translator of that. And, and he says, I saw this video. You can watch it on YouTube if you can find it. Because he that's quite a good teaching on this. And he says that the term when Jesus is on the cross and he says it is finished.

00;34;34;00 - 00;34;48;06
Murray Dueck
I believe the Hebrew word, there's Kala. And I could be wrong because it's been a while since I watch it. But it came up as I was thinking about what you were saying here and and it and if he says, you know, if you walk around Jerusalem today and you see that Hebrew word, Kahlon, you ask people, what does it mean?

00;34;48;08 - 00;35;07;15
Murray Dueck
You know, and they go, oh, they all say to you, oh, we all we know what that means. It's a common word. It means the bride. And and you can think of Jesus on the cross, its very last words shouting the bride, the bride. Oh, right, right. And and you know, that's not you've got to just think about again.

00;35;07;17 - 00;35;23;13
Murray Dueck
You know, when you when you think of a Garden of Eden, you know, you know, the Jews don't have a term Garden of Eden. They call it Paradise. Right. Well, you see Jesus on the cross. He looks at the thief to his one side and he says, what did he say to him today? You will be with me in Paradise, right?

00;35;23;15 - 00;35;30;00
Murray Dueck
And then we we move forward to the end where Joshua says, quoting, There's Paradise and there's that tree of.

00;35;30;00 - 00;35;30;23
Joshua Hoffert
Life.

00;35;30;26 - 00;35;49;16
Murray Dueck
With the leaves healing for the healing of the nations. And it says, and the curse is broken. And what it's talking about there is a removing out of mankind the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, and its effects upon mankind. And now they will see him face to face, and the dwelling of God will be with them.

00;35;49;16 - 00;36;08;05
Murray Dueck
And they're back in the garden again. So, you know, man was formed in the garden. God would walk in the garden. Jesus prayed in the garden for his bride. And then now we're back. We're back into this Paradise. And and it and it again. It ends in this beautiful scene of the spirit and the bride say come. So let's just think about that for a minute.

00;36;08;11 - 00;36;29;06
Murray Dueck
This formation here. Right. And and you know, it would be very good to quote Ephesians five. You're about marriage, you know. Right. You know, wives submit your husbands and husbands, you know, you know, sacrifice yourself for your bride as Christ did for his church. So in other words, husbands, die for your wife, right? Die for your wife.

00;36;29;08 - 00;37;03;05
Murray Dueck
And, and, and then and Paul says, I'm not talking about human marriage. I'm talking about Christ in the church, you know, pretty clear. you know, Paul says in second Corinthians 11, verse two, I formed you are called you aside for one bridegroom. You know, this is this is how they're thinking. And so when you look at the last little bit, then in the book of revelation, there's John thinking this way, and, and you see the spirit and the bride say, come, you know, you think about all this formation from Genesis all the way through.

00;37;03;07 - 00;37;23;15
Murray Dueck
And, you know, even how God is using the book of Hosea, you know, it's all about marriage. And, you know, you can see that, you can see the thrust and end and push and pull of it all the way through Scripture, and it ends again, just like, you know, why are you watching the end of of, of, what did I say?

00;37;23;15 - 00;37;44;02
Murray Dueck
Mr. Darcy's show, their pride. Prejudice. Yeah, you can see how it ends. And the ideas I used to kind of think when the bride in spirit say, come, you would see, like, you know, the old farmer picture. There's that kind of old man with the pitchfork, and he's not smiling, and he's got this. His wife is. And they're both standing side by side looking, and they're just like, very droll, you know?

00;37;44;04 - 00;38;06;27
Murray Dueck
You know, the spirit of the bride say, come, but it's a very different, image than that. And, and you have to kind of think of it like this, because where, where is the spirit here? Where is the spirit in this, in this picture. And of course, you know, first Corinthians, you know, six tells us, do you not know you're the temple of the Holy Spirit, that your Spirit and God's Spirit are one?

00;38;07;00 - 00;38;25;21
Murray Dueck
You know, where is the spirit in this picture? So and I think it's better having that in mind. You know, the disciples are filled with the Holy Spirit again and again in the book of acts. when you know how wide and wine and deep is a love of Christ that passes head knowledge, that you may be filled to all the fullness of the spirit.

00;38;25;23 - 00;38;52;22
Murray Dueck
So when you think about the churches to be filled with the spirit, and the spirit and the bride say, come, I think the image we should be seeing there is the bride full of the Holy Spirit glowing with life as a spirit is now in dwelling her fully clean and spotless. Waving her hand, saying, come, the spirit and the bride are doing it together as one being.

00;38;52;24 - 00;39;21;29
Murray Dueck
That's what we're looking at here. Yeah, I think, and then you have this humanity filled with the spirit getting married to the God man who is always God created creation. Jesus sacrificed before, you know, the foundation of the world. This this being who created creation now, perfect man and perfect God. And they get married and something astronomical, universal, eternal happens.

00;39;22;01 - 00;39;56;25
Murray Dueck
And that's the scene where this all ends and this is where it goes. And that's the oasis. I mean, that that brings us back to what we talked about earlier. And and it's building up to this moment. And, it's just kind of it's just astronomically mind blowing that we I would think, as mankind could almost see us as little ants, you know, we're not because God loves us so much, but but that God would come into the flesh and, and and was born in the flesh and died in the flesh and rose in the flesh, because he just loves humanity so much.

00;39;56;25 - 00;40;24;14
Murray Dueck
And this is what he's thinking is, is astronomical. And and to read the book of revelation like that. Right. That's, that's the important thing here because that's where it goes, you know, that's where it goes. And, and so just a pause, a moment here. How much more time do we got? You can cut this out.

00;40;24;28 - 00;40;31;23
Joshua Hoffert
let's I have I have yet to hear from Aaron. So, a few more minutes. Okay. You can you can keep going. Yep.

00;40;31;23 - 00;40;37;11
Murray Dueck
Okay, so I'll just pause again.

00;40;37;13 - 00;40;59;21
Murray Dueck
So it's important to build this paradigm. So maybe just quickly here let's talk about how the Jews would read some of the sayings of Jesus. Because again some of you will be saying, well, where do we see this in the ministry of Jesus? How do we know this is so important? Well, part of the problem is you have to remember that, you know, we're talking about Aramaic and Greek texts translated into English.

00;40;59;29 - 00;41;22;02
Murray Dueck
So if those texts would have said something like, with this ring, I thee wed or you know, in sickness and health and you know it, we would know, oh, he's quoting the marriage ceremony, but since we don't know the cultural Jewish marriage. So in marriage ceremony, we don't know that Jesus actually, in his ministry is quoting it all the time.

00;41;22;05 - 00;41;40;15
Murray Dueck
He's always thinking about this, right? He's always preparing this, just like on the cross, going to my bride. You know that, you know, people would see it that way. So I'm just going to throw out some verses for you. Just I want you to, to understand how Jesus is talking to his disciples and even the Pharisees, that he's thinking about this.

00;41;40;15 - 00;42;01;13
Murray Dueck
Right? This is this is not something that we're putting upon the texture. okay. So let's just go over some. So, John the Baptist, this is in, John three, I think verse 28 to 30. the Pharisees come or I think it's his own disciples are coming to him and they're saying, master, he's baptizing more people than you.

00;42;01;15 - 00;42;29;07
Murray Dueck
What do you think about this? And John? John says the bride is for the bridegroom, and I'm a friend of the bridegroom, and I must decrease me. He must increase. And when I see him increasing, it brings the friends of the bridegroom great joy, because the bride for the bridegroom. So John the Baptist, the forerunner, is comparing Jesus's ministry to a marriage right there it is so with Jesus in Matthew 914 and 15.

00;42;29;07 - 00;42;49;08
Murray Dueck
And here's where the Pharisees come at him. Hey, you're disciples. You John's disciples are fasting. You're disciples. Are you guys are partying and drinking? What's going on here? And Jesus goes, when the bride, the when the bridegroom is with, the friends of the bride bridegroom, they rejoice together. But there will come a day when the bridegroom will be taken from them.

00;42;49;08 - 00;43;01;21
Murray Dueck
And in that day they will fast. So once again, Jesus to the Pharisees are saying, you need to look at this as a wedding ceremony. And what's going on? Because I'm the bridegroom and you.

00;43;01;23 - 00;43;05;02
Joshua Hoffert
I just want to interject for just a second. Mary, because.

00;43;05;06 - 00;43;07;09
Murray Dueck
And that's Matthew 914 to 15.

00;43;07;11 - 00;43;34;14
Joshua Hoffert
You. Right. And you've got a couple more. You're going to go through you. You referenced Isaiah two and we're looking at the the, the totality, right. And looking at the totality of Scripture in this bride bridegroom language. Right. This isn't just Jesus because Hosea two. Yeah, God speaks of himself as preparing a woman by alluring her into the wilderness, by giving her the door of trouble as the, or the valley of trouble.

00;43;34;14 - 00;43;55;14
Joshua Hoffert
The valley of a core is a door of hope. He'll betrothed her to him, right? He'll remove the name of veil from her lips. He's going to prepare her to be his bride. And this is what Jesus is saying, right? This is this is the very words of Jesus. Actually, this is the parable of the the five, the ten virgins to five with good oil.

00;43;55;14 - 00;43;56;02
Joshua Hoffert
Five without.

00;43;56;02 - 00;43;59;05
Murray Dueck
That's right. That's what Mary thinking again, this.

00;43;59;06 - 00;44;27;04
Joshua Hoffert
Is marital thinking. Again, it's Jesus is now identifying as the bridegroom, saying, hey, the bridal paradigm is here, guys. And he's presently preparing. He is on the earth preparing his people. The disciples at that point, to become the bride that's prepared for him. Right? It's this is this is you've got to think, see Jesus as as if he's speaking the very words of God.

00;44;27;07 - 00;44;46;27
Joshua Hoffert
And then we look back in Hosea and go, God said, I'm going to come and prepare a bride for me. And then Jesus comes and says, the bridegroom is here. You're being prepared and everything is going to change, right? So we're just looking at this. This is not a Jesus introduced a whole new idea.

00;44;46;27 - 00;44;52;13
Murray Dueck
That's right. He's fulfilling the heart of God, prophesied in the book of Isaiah in himself.

00;44;52;17 - 00;44;53;28
Joshua Hoffert
And other places, but.

00;44;54;01 - 00;45;13;21
Murray Dueck
In other places, too. Yeah, exactly. So now the important thing with that is just going forward. And I know again, everybody, because we are desert father focused here. I'll go back and quote you some more scripture here in a second. But let's, you know, Mercury's the great who we've talked about before really.

00;45;13;21 - 00;45;19;11
Joshua Hoffert
Love back kind of back in our in our episodes, we have a whole episode on Mercury in particular. Yeah. So yeah.

00;45;19;16 - 00;45;33;03
Murray Dueck
And and so over five other guys like that, they, you know, this is early church thinking. So you know this got into the church and move forward. So me know Macarius was what 353 3300.

00;45;33;03 - 00;45;35;21
Joshua Hoffert
300 to 391 that's when he lived.

00;45;35;23 - 00;45;59;08
Murray Dueck
Really, really. You know, early on when the face of the soul has been unveiled, it will gaze upon the heavenly bridegroom, face to face, illuminated by the unspeakable light of the spirit on that day. The soul is worthy of the heavenly life and becomes the bright dwelling place of the Spirit of God. I mean, you know, the okay, this isn't this is kind of where it goes.

00;45;59;11 - 00;46;30;16
Murray Dueck
And, so, I mean, I got a whole bunch more of those than we but I think for now, just so you know, we're looking at a continuation from Genesis through the Bible, but continuing forward, you know, of, of the same thinking, but again, if you look at you look at what just McCarry said, they're, you're looking at on this life on this planet, Theos is you're looking having these experiences of what the bridegroom, this God who speaks, wants himself to be revealed in this way.

00;46;30;19 - 00;46;49;18
Murray Dueck
And that's important thinking here. So, so again, if you just have moral code and you can't hear his voice, you know, I remember when I was in high school and this man in a church and, there was a real big push for missions. And, you know, I went got my degree in mission because I thought.

00;46;49;21 - 00;47;08;13
Murray Dueck
And this guy said, you know, if you're in the Army, do you know the last command of your officers? So when you do, if you lose contact, you do the last command and the last command of Jesus was, go into all nations and preach the gospel. So that's what we got to do. It's the last command. And I thought, okay, well then I better do that, right?

00;47;08;13 - 00;47;27;00
Murray Dueck
Because I love God. I better get a degree in missions and I better go work. You know what? Well, you got to believe that if you can't hear him. Well, the last thing he said, I can't hear him anymore. He left. So therefore I better work hard and and, you know, let's look at Macarius. No, no, no, we're supposed to encounter him.

00;47;27;02 - 00;47;47;06
Murray Dueck
We're supposed to this this. God wants to reveal himself in a loving, knowing, heart to heart relationship with a bride who spotless and clean. Right. So that's in there. Okay. So let's let's I just this is important, right? So well, let's go over some more verses when we want to couch this Old Testament when Joshua did such a good job of this.

00;47;47;09 - 00;48;12;20
Murray Dueck
So, you know, I actually think about this as, as we go, you know, Joe, what the John Baptist said, what Jesus said about the bridegroom, what Paul says, and then take it forward to with John sees through a bridal paradigm. And so we want to build on this is a good a good place to stop today that that intimacy with Christ causes us to fall in love with the beloved.

00;48;12;22 - 00;48;34;15
Murray Dueck
And that's falling in love takes us into a supernatural relationship that only a marriage language which is symbolic, is strong enough to prepare us for. Yeah. And and this is the heart of the Desert fathers to discover this. And and again, this God who speaks, it's for us today. And we'll pick this up. Then we'll pick it up next week.

00;48;34;15 - 00;48;35;22
Murray Dueck
We'll go from there.

00;48;35;25 - 00;49;03;08
Joshua Hoffert
Yeah. That's right. The, the we will the language of the language of, the language of Genesis two, where Adam cleaves with Eve and they become one flesh. That particular word for cleave is used throughout the Old Testament to describe the believers that Israel and the individual's relationship with the father cleaving and becoming one. So we've see it.

00;49;03;09 - 00;49;25;00
Joshua Hoffert
We see it. You know, this is a concept we're going to explore over the next couple of episodes. And, you know, in, in, in a marriage, how you know this Mary as well as I do. Okay. in a marriage, you sit down and you have a conversation with your wife, and you spend the whole time looking at your phone.

00;49;25;08 - 00;49;27;03
Murray Dueck
how well does that go?

00;49;27;05 - 00;49;37;06
Joshua Hoffert
How well does that go? Your wife goes. You're not listening to me right? Yeah, yeah, we get it. We get it. So simply in our own right.

00;49;37;07 - 00;49;42;08
Murray Dueck
John Paul Jackson used to say, how do you listen to your spouse? Is how you listen to God.

00;49;42;10 - 00;49;48;13
Joshua Hoffert
Yeah. That's right, that's right. So that's that's what we want. You know, talking about prophecy, talking about hearing God talking. Yeah. All this the.

00;49;48;17 - 00;50;03;00
Murray Dueck
Well, you know, maybe one last verse to end on because people can look it up. Yeah. Go for it. It's, you know, these guys come to Jesus and go, Lord, Lord, we heal the sick, raise the dead. The part for me. I never knew you well that that word knew know there is that you know Adam knew.

00;50;03;00 - 00;50;25;17
Murray Dueck
Eve. We're talking, you know, a symbol for again, sexual intercourse here. Yeah. That Jesus intentionally goes back to that language you guys serve me and did all this stuff, but I guess what did. No, no. You in this way? Yeah. So it's, you know, we see it so much, we just kind of go past it. And what it just telling us, you know, we're going to quit for today about that.

00;50;25;19 - 00;50;44;10
Murray Dueck
You know, it's just it's alluded to when we spend time with their spouse, you know, how much time do we spend with Jesus as compared to working for Jesus? Now those two things are not music mutually exclusive, but they can very, very easily be.

00;50;44;12 - 00;50;46;03
Joshua Hoffert
They can. Yeah, that's right.

00;50;46;05 - 00;50;46;24
Murray Dueck
We'll talk more.

00;50;46;24 - 00;51;12;20
Joshua Hoffert
About that for sure. Yeah. well, everybody, thanks so much for tuning in to this episode of voices from the desert. And, we hope the conversation has been enriching and we'll continue to talk about, reading Scripture through the bridle paradigm, relating to Jesus, to the bridal paradigm and the bridal paradigm as well, in church history. So we've got we've got a few different episodes planned out, and we're happy that you're along for the ride.

00;51;12;23 - 00;51;17;00
Joshua Hoffert
And so until next time, we'll see you later.

00;51;17;02 - 00;51;17;24
Murray Dueck
Thanks, everyone.